Public Defenseless

How can journalists and public defenders work together to bring awareness to the real issues plaguing our court system? Today, Hunter spoke with Maggie Shepard, Director of Communications at the New Mexico Law Offices of the Public Defender, to discuss how public defenders can use media relations to deepen their connection with the community they are working to protect. A policy can only be effective if it has adequate momentum behind it and with most offices unwilling to comment publicly, it makes it difficult for the public to fully grasp the issues. There is a lot of bureaucracy in our court system but it does serve a purpose, to protect the rights of the accused. Everytime a public defender refuses to make a comment they miss the opportunity to highlight the deeper issues surrounding the case, which can be done while honoring the anonymity of the client. Today's conversation highlights the real need for communication between the public and the courts and between journalists and public defenders. Guest: Maggie Shepard, Director of Communications, New Mexico Law Offices of the Public Defender Key Takeaways: Utilizing media relations to fight at the systemic level [2:30] Maggie's decision to leave journalism to do media relation training [8:10] How narrative and perception shapes reality [10:15] Courtroom journalism rarely grants time to scrutinize the power structure at play [14:30] Deciphering who counts as an "official" source? [19:00] A different way for journalists to get a powerful and evocative story [28:00] Teaching public defenders to speak to the broader story unfolding [34:00] Policy is only as good as the awareness and pressure behind it [39:14] Bringing media attention to the positive effects of good reform [42:50] Using language in a way that reminds the public of the process [50:00] It's possible for public defenders to have media relations without being quoted [53:00] Prison reform is the biggest issue facing New Mexico today [55:40] Teaching journalists what they don't learn in school [58:00] Resources: Contact Maggie maggie.shepard@lopdnm.us Contact Heather at NAPD heather@publicdefenders.us https://www.lopdnm.us/media-ipra/ Memorable Quotes: "I was tired of being part of the propaganda machine, honestly, I was tired of playing a harmful role in the narratives that I was telling, so I left my job." [8:19] -Shepard "There is a desire, within the department, within the attorneys, to learn how to do this better and there is very clearly a need in the community to have better access to the public defense world and for the information we have as public defenders to get out into the world, into our communities." [9:27] -Shepard "There's not a lot of thoughtfulness beyond what's in front of me, the actors and the actions and that's what we focus on. We might call into question the after and the action but we're not calling into question the machine, the bigger power structure that's there." [14:50] -Shepard "Good policy, not heard by anybody, isn't good policy.It's just a good idea that nobody heard and that's where I think a lot of public defenders and people who want to push these policies fail to understand that policy gets pushed when people hear about it and apply pressure." [39:14] -Parnell Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram Twitter www.publicdefenseless.com

When does a victim become a suspect? Very often, our legal system cares about someone's status as a victim when it allows the system to incarcerate someone. As soon as you stand in that goal, any harm done to you matters not. On today's episode, Hunter spoke with Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment at the Sentencing Project, to discuss the ways our legal system punishes Domestic Violence Survivors. Specifically, they dive deep into the "Failure to Protect laws" that showcase the latent sexism prevalent in our legal system and the twisted ways in which prosecutors ignore self defense claims when it aids their goal of securing higher conviction rates. While some states offer hope at a future where these cases are not happening around the country, places like Oklahoma remind us there is a long uphill battle that people like Alexandra are at the forefront of to end our brutally harsh punishment bureaucracy. Key Topics and Takeaways: How Alexandra got into her line of work. [5:54] An overview of some laws that the Sentencing Project is trying to reform. [7:53] Ways women are uniquely affected by the legal system. [12:20] The DVSJA law. [23:14] Why having a clear and trauma-informed legal standard is important. [29:46] Failure to protect laws. [37:24] Why the policy needs to be changed in Oklahoma. [53:07] What the Sentencing Project is all about. [57:23] Guest: Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment, Sentencing Project Resources: Sentencing Project DVSJA Bill News Oklahoma Failure to Protect Women's Prisons Are Filled With Domestic Violence Survivors. A New Type of Law Could Help Them Get Out. She never hurt her kids. So why is she in prison? Memorable Quotes: "It doesn't really matter the circumstances. Women are seen by the legal system as being less credible." (12:25, Alexandra) "As of 2020, 47 out of every 100,000 women were in prison, so this is not a failure of any one particular individual. This is the failure of a system that has not provided what families need in order to succeed." (17:50, Alexandra) "God bless the public defenders of America because they are so frequently trying to explain trauma to deaf ears. So shout out to all of them." (29:30, Alexandra) "There's no shame in improving things. There is no shame in going back and learning and growing. We do it as individuals. There's no reason that this system can't do it too." (36:32, Alexandra) "This system takes tools with good intention and wields them in the worst possible way." (39:11, Alexandra) "I think we need to start looking at situations as tragedies as opposed to an opportunity to nail someone." (47:12, Alexandra) Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram Twitter www.publicdefenseless.com

Today, Hunter sat down once again with Doug Wilson, Chief Public Defender in the Aurora Municipal Public Defender Office, to discuss what has unfolded in Aurora, Colorado over the past year. Often, people will ask the question, "Why do you think we don't fund Public Defender Offices the way we should?" While there are many potential answers to that question, this episode highlights one of the most important ones: Policy makers have an exponentially more tough time incarcerating people when there is a zealous advocate both in and out of the court room for the rights of the accused. Starting back to last year, the Aurora Public Defender Office has been instrumental in highlighting the misconduct and illegal activity of the prosecution and police of the city. At the same time, the city council marched on towards its mission to incarcerate as many people as possible in a misguided effort to make their community safer. At every step of the way, Doug and his office have been pushing back against the city's goals. Now it seems, the city is tired of the pushback. Tune in to hear how the city is attempting to use the language of cost efficiency to mask their true intentions: dismantling the most powerful advocate against their march towards increased incarceration. Guests: Doug Wilson, Chief Public Defender, Aurora, Colorado Municipal Public Defender Office Key Topics and Takeaways: The City Attorney's Brady violations and the PDO's role in exposing them [8:22] How does the PDO impede the goal of the city council [20:41] How did the city support its mandatory minimum sentencing [25:13] Is the city council now seeking to dismantle the office? [30:20] The response from the community [38:03] The media's failure to cover this topic [44:30] Why the fiscal efficiency argument is bogus [52:00] What is next for Aurora [59:25] Resources: Prosecutors ordered to review cases after Aurora office failed to provide defendants with knowledge of discredited cops Aurora city attorneys review, notify impacted defendants of lacking 'Brady letters' Aurora lawmakers give 1st OK to mandatory jail time for shoplifting, despite lack of cost data Aurora lawmakers impose mandatory 3 days in jail for shoplifting more than $300 Aurora council defends cuts to diversity office, public defender, police monitor in first round of budget voting Impacts of Mandatory Minimum Sentencing: https://law.asu.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/academy_for_justice/7_Criminal_Justice_Reform_Vol_4_Mandatory-Minimums.pdf https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/long-term-sentences-time-to-reconsider-the-scale-of-punishment/ https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/end-mandatory-minimums NLADA Report on Aurora Office ACLU Report on Municipal Courts Colorado Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram Twitter www.publicdefenseless.com

Thanks to the 1963 case of Brady v. Maryland, prosecutors are supposed to give the defense attorneys any evidence that may be beneficial to the defense's case. Despite this requirement, police misconduct has been allowed to fester for decades as prosecutors and judges openly flaunt their mandates share this evidence. Furthermore, the legal profession itself fails to police prosecutors and judges who allow the misdeeds of police to go unchecked. This entire cycle calls into question decades worth of prosecutions because of potential failures to disclose evidence, but what can be done if everyone in the system is playing a role in allowing the corruption to continue? This week, Hunter spoke with Johann Drolshagen, to answer that very question. Johann is the CEO of Level Playing Field solutions, and has helped to create a nationwide, publicly accessible database, called the brady list, to make it easier for communities to report and track misconduct by police, prosecutors, and judges. By bringing this information into the light of day, Johann hopes to combat the corruption gripping millions of Americans trapped in our criminal legal system. Guests: Johann Drolshagen, CEO Level Playing Field Solutions Key Topics and Takeaways: How Johann got Involved in the criminal legal system reform movement [6:40] What is Brady [14:00] How widespread is the issue? [14:40] How police, prosecutors, and judges skirt Brady requirements [19:00] The issues with attorneys policing attorneys [26:00] What is the driving force behind these issues [30:00] How the Brady List holds the powerful to account [32:00] The issues facing Missouri and Oklahoma [42:53] How to cut through the institutional hurdles [1:01:00] Do people care about Due Process? [1:05:55] What have the positive impacts of the list been? [1:10:35] Resources: Brady List QuattroneCenter Citizens Overseeing Police Oklahoma People v Houser Davis v Normandy Richard Glossip Case Follow Johann on Twitter Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram Twitter www.publicdefenseless.com

Heather Cessna, executive director of the Kansas Board of Indigent Services, is dedicated to positively transforming public defense in her state. Since she's come on board, the quality of services has drastically increased as well as the working conditions for public defenders. In this episode, you'll learn the structure of the Kansas Indigent Defense System, its current problems, and recent wins within the state. Heather has successfully reformed much of the system, and she'll walk you through her methods and tactics. This episode proves the difference it makes when an indigent defense system has strong leaders. In her time as executive director, Heather has quickly moved the system in the right direction. There might still be a long way to go, but Heather brings to this episode a breath of fresh air and a sense of much-needed optimism. Key Topics and Takeaways: Heather's background in public defense. [5:25] The structure of the Kansas Indigent Defense System. [10:56] Problems Heather has tackled under her leadership. [17:00] Heather's advocacy methods. [23:21] What was learned from the surveys. [38:35] Recent wins. [48:36] Heather's secret to her success. [58:37] Where Heather wants to see Kansas indigent defense go in the future. [1:01:30] Guest: Heather Cessna, Executive Director, Kansas Board of Indigent Defense Services Resources: Kansas Board of Indigent Defense Services Kansas Well Being Committee Work Memorable Quotes: "When we understand the failings and successes of other states, we can leverage that in our own." (3:44, Hunter) "If you can't refuse cases, you should be able to." (28:54, Hunter) "We have a lack of attorneys problem in Kansas generally. We do not have enough counsel in some of our counties to handle the volume of cases that we have." (34:06, Heather) "It does us absolutely no good to pretend like we don't have problems." (40:05, Heather) "I often tell people if you think the adult level representation or system is struggling, I promise you the juvenile one is probably doing worse." (1:04:55, Hunter) Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram www.publicdefenseless.com

Today, Hunter is joined by two guests hoping their lawsuit against the state of Wisconsin will bring vital changes to the State's Public Defender System. Hank Schultz and John Birdsall have a combined experience of more than 40 years of working as criminal defense attorneys in Wisconsin. Through this experience, they are acutely aware of the history of inadequate pay for contract counsel and tough on crime policies that have pushed indigent defense to a state of crisis. For decades, the state of Wisconsin paid the attorneys willing to serve as contract counsel for indigent clients a paltry rate of $40 per hour. At that rate, attorneys could not even cover the cost of overhead, and that rate did not change from 1995 until 2020. As a result of these low rates, less and less attorneys were willing to take on cases. Meanwhile, more people were forced to wait months and months just to speak to an attorney. In doing so, the state flagrantly violated the right to counsel and right to speedy trial of countless people, and yet, even raise to $70 per hour the state implemented in 2020 was nowhere close to addressing the magnitude of the problem. Despite the main issue the state faces being the low pay for contract counsel, Hank and John have sought a creative remedy in their lawsuit. By the end of this episode, you will have a clear understanding of how the state ended being sued, why a lawsuit was necessary, and the potential ways other state's may be able to learn from this case!! Guests: Hank Schultz, Retired Criminal Defense Attorney, Former Contract Counsel Wisconsin Public Defense John Birdsall, Criminal Defense Attorney, Former Contract Counsel Wisconsin Public Defense Key Topics and Takeaways: How Hank and John got Involved in Public Defense in Wisconsin [9:20] Structural Issues with Wisconsin Public Defense [17:20] How long has Attorney Pay been an Issue in the State [21:17] History of the Tough on Crime Policies of Wisconsin [24:35] Attorney Shortages Around the State [29:20] Goals of the Lawsuit [39:28] Explaining the Strategy of the Lawsuit [43:10] Response from the State [50:30] Response from the Public Defender's Office [54:33] Resources: History of Low Pay for Contract Counsel More Insight into Low Pay in Wisconsin State v. Nhia Lee Class action lawsuit calls out lack of state public defenders Rural Defendants Sue Wisconsin over Indigent Defense Read the Full Lawsuit Here Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram Twitter www.publicdefenseless.com

Are public defense unions the solution to reform? In this episode, Hunter speaks with Sam Allison-Natale, Executive Director of the Kansas Holistic Defenders, and Bob Kolstad, a public defender in Hennepin County, Minnesota. They'll walk you through everything you need to know about public defense unions and the philosophy behind them. Giving you a behind-the-scenes view, you'll learn the realities behind unions, the goals, and why they are necessary. Then, Bob and Sam will discuss collective organizing and the ethics around it. They'll share how they mobilize public defenders and how they get past the individualistic society of today. With their endless enthusiasm, Bob and Sam share a refreshing vision of unity and hope. Key Topics and Takeaways: Bob and Sam talk about how they got into public defense. [7:02] Why the Minnesota union is so successful. [16:45] The ethics of unionization. [24:00] Why people should take the burden of collective action. [37:10] The racial lens of collective action. [48:07] What led to the Minnesota strike. [57:12] Organizing collective action. [1:02:34] How to get from a place of individuality to unity. [1:07:50] Guests: Sam Allison-Natale, Executive Director, Kansas Holistic Defenders Bob Kolstad, Public Defender, Hennepin County, Minnesota Resources: Public defenders vote to strike; justice system could come to a halt Minnesota's top public defender reappointed over objections from rank-and-file Minnesota's public defenders vote no confidence in agency head The Secrets of a Successful Organizer Michelle Alexander Plea Deal Strike Email Bob Email Sam Memorable Quotes: "The weakness of unions generally in Kansas is something that affects the shape of Kansas politics across the board." (23:36, Sam) "The public defense system is under duress. I mean, severe duress." (24:50, Bob) "This discussion about collective action versus individual action, and the fact that everybody is stuck in an individual mindset is what allows the system to function." (33:00, Sam) "The fact is that organizing for a strike, building a credible strike threat can get people really, really far in fighting for the kinds of things that they need to have." (40:39, Bob) "I think that we are in a situation of such dire need that people want to be invited into a struggle for something greater." (43:13, Hunter) Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram www.publicdefenseless.com

This week, Hunter speaks with Olayemi Olurin—a political commentator, writer, activist, and public defender out of the New York Legal Aid Society. She has spent her career advocating for systematic change and brings with her a powerful perspective on the criminal justice system. There are many common lies and misconceptions that circulate about public defense, reform efforts, and the criminal justice system as a whole. Olayemi will refute these lies and give you an inside glimpse into the true reality of the complicated legal system by walking you through the everyday injustices she faces. She'll talk about her outreach work and the tactics she uses to change the perspectives of both stakeholders and the general public about why reform is important. Olayemi is dedicated to improving advocacy on a systematic level to combat negative and untrue narratives. Olayemi dreams of a day when public defenders can truly be the voice of their clients. With her energy and passion, she is carving the path for change. Key Topics and Takeaways: Olayemi describes her story of going into public defense. [7:28] Turning activism into effective policy. [12:28] How public defense misconceptions get spread. [31:17] Problems with how the justice system treats POC. [35:06] What's going on at Rikers Island. [39:07] Speedy trials. [47:46] How Olayemi changes perspectives. [51:00] Everyday injustices Olayemi sees as a public defender. [54:16] Guest: Olayemi Olurin, Public Defender, New York Legal Aid Society Resources: https://www.olayemiolurin.com/ Follow on Olayemi Twitter Follow Olayemi on Instagram Olayemi's appearance on The Young Turks Eric Adams' POLICE STATE Is The Future Democrats Want, But Their Voters DON'T: Olayemi Olurin Eric Adams' INCOMPETENT Rikers' Deaths Response Is An ATTACK On Due Process Olayemi's Thesis Olayemi on the SAFE-T Act Memorable Quotes: "It's woefully insufficient for the black community to be, to be as overrepresented as we are in terms of incarceration, but underrepresented in the profession. We make a maybe 5% of attorneys." (11:39, Olayemi) "I'm more concerned in shifting public consciousness. It doesn't matter to me what other attorneys think." (18:12, Olayemi) "My emotional feeling in a state of when somebody pisses you off should not be a reflection of what our criminal system is or the larger consequences at the end of the day." (27:52, Olayemi) "That's the problem. It's a society that's really just galvanized around whiteness and policing black and brown bodies." (35:27, Olayemi) "The reality is, the only way power is maintained is by subjugating somebody else." (38:41, Olayemi) "People often bring the criminal system into their lives because they don't understand how it works." (55:13, Olayemi) Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Twitter Instagram www.publicdefenseless.com

Today on the show, Hunter is joined by David Pelletier, a Project Director in the Justice for Veterans division of the National Association of Drug Court Professionals, to discuss Veteran Treatment Courts. Founded by a lone judge in Buffalo, New York, Veteran Treatment Courts follow in the 30+ year tradition of broader treatment courts. These courts all seek to offer alternatives to incarceration that drive towards the root causes of someone's involvement with the criminal legal system through a culturally competent lens. For Veteran's Treatment Court, the goal is to offer veterans suffering with acute medical needs a path towards recovery through a process that saves them from lengthy counter productive prison stints. As David shares, these individualized courts that drive at eliminating the root causes that landed someone tied up with the legal system. Yet while the success of the courts is not in question, the courts offer much more for communities to consider. In many places, communities find themselves holding two thing ideals: they should be tough on crime, but they should also be caring to their veteran populations, and this is where Veteran Treatment Courts have so much potential. By adopting Veteran Treatment Courts, these communities are exposed to the power of viewing each person through a holistic and individualized lens. Hopefully, this may lead communities to consider other treatment courts or even expanding access to care before someone ever becomes entangled with the legal system. After this conversation, you will hopefully walk away feeling inspired to think about the ways you could help kickstart similar non-carceral interventions in your own community!! Guests: David Pelletier, Project Director, National Association of Drug Court Professionals, Justice For Veterans Division, Marine Corps Veteran Key Topics and Takeaways: David's journey from the Marine Corps to Justice for Veterans [5:38] What is Veteran Treatment Court? [8:28] Why do we need a Veteran Treatment Court [14:37] How can Veteran Treatment Court help criminal justice reform more broadly? [28:40] How to start a Veteran Treatment Court and what are the benefits of doing so [32:45] How to represent and relate to a veteran in the legal profession [43:00] Generational Differences and ongoing issues amongst the Veteran Community [46:40] Resources: Justice for Veterans Website State of The American Veteran Survey Search for Veteran Status Brock Hunter Special Considerations for Representing Veterans Brock Hunter's guide to representing Veterans Porter V. McCollum, 558 US 30 – Supreme Court 2009 A lawyer provides ineffective assistance of counsel if he or she does not investigate a client's military service and present aspects of it as potential mitigating factors.12 The Court held that not only was it relevant that the veteran-defendant had "extensive combat experience" and had "served honorably under extreme hardship and gruesome conditions," but also "that the jury might find mitigating the intense stress and mental and emotional toll that combat took" on the defendant. One of Hunter's former guests, Travis Wiener is helped with the making of this really awesome documentary. While it is not in any way affiliated with the Veterans for Justice group, Hunter felt like it was a powerful resource for people to gain insight onto some of the challenges Iraq and Afghanistan veterans face. Meatgrinder Documentary Website: https://www.meatgrinderdoc.com Youtube channel: Follow David on Twitter Email David: Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram Twitter www.publicdefenseless.com

Every minute of the full conversation with Andrea Lyon is available to listen to, but Hunter wanted to make sure everyone had an easy time accessing the last 30 minutes of the conversation where the discuss a potential Office of the Defender General at the Federal Level! Guests: Andrea Lyon, Capital Defense Attorney, Former Capital Public Defender, Author, Educator, and Former Dean of Valparaiso Law School Resources: Andrea Lyon Website Follow Andrea on Twitter Check out Andrea's Book Office of Defender General Website Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram Twitter www.publicdefenseless.com