The Free Toaster

I sat down with John Henson, a fintech-savvy lawyer who formerly worked at LendingTree (both as an attorney and a general manager). He unpacks the regulatory chaos swirling around lead generation in 2025 — what’s changed, what’s still risky, and how fintech marketers can navigate it without getting burned. In today's discussion: The CFPB Rolled Back Rules: Credit card and personal loan lead gen just got a little more breathing room. John explains what’s safe and what’s not. Mortgage Lead Gen Isn’t Dead: Despite RESPA, there are ways to play without federal headaches. State Privacy Laws Are Tightening: You might be a “data broker” without knowing it — and that’s a compliance minefield. Banks Fear AI: Rumor has it that some big banks are banning generative AI in lead gen. John weighs in on the reality. Some Lead Gen Is Still Garbage: Learn how to spot sketchy providers before you get sued. ...and much more.  Memorable Quotes “Everything is UDAP.”  “If you don’t understand how they’re generating the leads, you’re buying problems.” “Nobody ever got fired at a bank for saying no.” About John Henson John Henson is a rare breed: a lawyer who understands marketing. He spent 6 years at LendingTree running lead gen and compliance, so he knows the real-world challenges fintechs face. Now, he helps companies stay out of trouble while growing smart. Follow him on LinkedIn for sharp insights. *** A word from our sponsor, Fintel Connect Drive thousands of new accounts and billions in deposits with the only partner marketing solution built for fintech and banking – your all-in-one affiliate platform, partner network, agency, and marketing compliance engine. https://partner.fintelconnect.com/get-to-know-fintel-connect?utm_campaign=13897733-2025%20Partners&utm_source=The%20Free%20Toaster&utm_medium=podcast   A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=june A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:   New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com   Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

I explain positive and adverse selection in lending using recruiting as an analogy. If you've ever hired someone, you'll instantly understand why your channels, pricing, and process determine your loan portfolio quality. Key Takeaways The Big Idea: Attracting great borrowers works exactly like hiring great people. The parallels... 1. Channel Quality Inbound (website traffic): People actively searching, often desperate Outbound (direct mail): Higher-quality prospects who aren't hunting Best candidates and borrowers usually aren't usually looking 2. Price Matters Post a $100K vs $200K director role—which gets better candidates? Same with loans: competitive rates attract quality borrowers Even small rate differences (12% vs 14%) shift your entire applicant mix 3. Process Friction Complex hiring processes drive away top talent with options Heavy loan applications do the same to good credit risks You're left with applicants who have time and fewer alternatives Action Items for Fintech Marketers Audit your inbound vs outbound channel mix Price competitively—good borrowers shop around Streamline your application process ruthlessly Go find great borrowers instead of waiting for them You can find a written version of today's content in our Newsletter: https://www.thefreetoaster.com/p/positive-negative-select-in-lending *** A word from our sponsor, Fintel Connect Drive thousands of new accounts and billions in deposits with the only partner marketing solution built for fintech and banking – your all-in-one affiliate platform, partner network, agency, and marketing compliance engine. https://partner.fintelconnect.com/get-to-know-fintel-connect?utm_campaign=13897733-2025%20Partners&utm_source=The%20Free%20Toaster&utm_medium=podcast   A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=june A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:   New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com   Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

I talk about a surprising case study where a lending product thrived in one affiliate marketplace but completely flopped in another. We explore the key differences between marketplaces that can dramatically impact performance and provide actionable insights for fintech marketers. Key Insights Don't assume success transfers between marketplaces: A product that works well with one affiliate partner may struggle with another due to fundamental marketplace differences. Three critical marketplace variables to consider: Algorithm differences Competitive landscape variations Offer presentation layer discrepancies Strategic takeaways: Consider designing different product versions for different channels Expect varying unit economics across partnerships Recognize that market share will naturally differ between platforms ***** A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=may A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:   New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com   Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

Marketers sometimes like to enter new channels gradually, conservatively even. This works in many channels like paid search, social, and direct mail.  But for fintechs, entering new affiliate channels like this can have catastrophic consequences.  In today's Podcast, I share why entering into new affiliate marketplaces "cautiously" can be dangerous for new entrants. As an alternative, I'll walk you through how to play the game in reverse. Note: If you want to hear more about this in future Podcasts, email me at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com with your questions.   ***** A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=apr A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:   New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com   Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

We chat with Colin about how AI is changing marketplaces. His thesis: “The rise of agentic AI will transform marketplaces from passive aggregators to active facilitators of transactions.” To learn more, check out Colin’s take on how AI will revolutionize marketplaces: https://www.gardinercolin.com/p/ai-and-marketplaces-agent-led About Colin Gardiner Former economics/statistical researcher that now loves building sticky consumer facing products via iterative data-driven methods. Built products for both large corporations and seed level startups, always with a primary focus on acquisition, conversion and monetization.   ***** A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=apr A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:   New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com   Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

We sit with credit card expert Jason Steele about what's happening behind the scenes in the industry. Jason shares how he went from tech work to becoming a respected credit card authority who writes for major publications and runs CardCon, the credit card industry conference.   We discuss: The "Coupon Book Problem" - Premium cards are becoming more complex with endless small benefits ($6 at Dunkin', $10 off wireless) that frustrate consumers. Jason explains why this creates space for simpler card offerings that deliver clear value. What Drives Card Choices - Discover why exclusivity and status perks (like early access to products or "skip-the-line" privileges) might be more powerful than cash back for attracting high-value customers. Will shopping for cards change in an AI future? - The conversation explores whether consumers are moving away from traditional comparison sites toward trusted influencers and whether AI could personalize recommendations based on spending patterns.   Also: Why metal cards might affect spending behavior How credit unions approach card benefits differently The power of word-of-mouth in card marketing What makes people share positive card experiences   And remember: Jason conference — CardCon — happens May 6-8 in Deerfield Beach, Florida. Use code "TOASTER" for $50 off registration at cardconexpo.com.   Where to find Jason: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-steele/   ***** A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=apr A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:   New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com   Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/   Want to chat with Carlos Caro, our host? Find him at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

LendAPI lets you create application flows, credit decision engines, and complete lending products through simple drag-and-drop tools—all without hiring engineers or spending millions. You can build and launch lending products quickly and efficiently, then use a working product to raise venture capital. Even non-financial businesses like boat dealerships are using it to replace clunky Excel-based applications. Tim in unsually transparent as an early stage founder. He shared: $3.5 million in seed funding raised just four months ago How many applications they process daily How many lenders use the platform The company’s ARR and target before raising more capital LendAPI connects with all three credit bureaus, loan servicing systems, and identity verification providers that you work with daily. Tim's vision is to become the "WordPress of lending"—making it easy for your clients to launch financial products without technical expertise. Where to find Tim: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothytli/ Substack (Tim’s build-in-public blog) https://substack.com/@lendapi LendAPI https://www.lendapi.com/ ***** A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=mar A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:   New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com   Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/   Want to chat with Carlos Caro, our host? Find him at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

In this episode, I catch up with my old Columbia PhD classmate Guru Sethupathy, founder of FairNow, an AI governance platform for financial services. About AI Governance: Involves three key components: Monitoring AI performance, explainability, and bias Ensuring compliance with financial regulations Establishing clear AI policies and procedures Why It Matters for FinTechs: Often viewed as a cost center but becomes a strategic advantage Becomes critically important during partner due diligence "Light touch" governance is better than scrambling reactively Risk of bias or compliance issues can be existential for startups Explainability Benefits: Meets regulatory requirements Improves customer experience Enhances operational understanding Helps identify performance optimization opportunities Resources: Learn more at fairnow.ai Contact: guru@fairnow.ai   A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=mar Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/   Want to chat with Carlos Caro, our host? Email him at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

In this episode, we speak with Greg Cox, CEO of Monevo, to discuss their recent acquisition by TransUnion and how they're transforming credit offer distribution. Greg explains how Monevo serves as a technology layer connecting lenders and publishers, allowing lenders to distribute highly qualified credit offers to third-party websites and aggregators. The platform helps lenders target the right customers across multiple digital channels while improving conversion rates. Highlights: How Monevo's technology handles model hosting and decisioning, with flexibility for lenders to host models with Monevo, TransUnion, or their own platforms Their extensive publisher network, including major players like Lending Tree, NerdWallet, Credit Karma, and Clear Score The company's bootstrapped journey from a £25,000 investment to a TransUnion acquisition How their solution dramatically reduces soft inquiry costs for lenders Different types of offers presented to consumers (pre-approved, pre-qualified, qualified) Future plans following the TransUnion acquisition, including expansion into new verticals beyond personal loans and credit cards Greg shares insights on how Monevo makes both lender and publisher relationships more efficient by improving approval rates, boosting monetization for publishers, and delivering better-qualified users to lenders - all while maintaining flexibility in commercial agreements that align with good outcomes for all parties.   A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=mar Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/   Want to chat with Carlos Caro, our host? Email him at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

Rich Walker is a 35-year industry vet who’s been responsible for over 10 billion pieces of Direct Mail. Rich has led direct marketing teams at Capital One, the Winterberry Group, Deluxe Corporation, 2nd Order Solutions, and more recently, Aven. He also ran his own consulting shop - Pilot Performance Marketing - focused on helping lenders solve Direct Mail. So we jumped at the opportunity to get his take on how lenders can leverage Direct Mail to grow their customer acquisition programs.   We Discuss: 1️⃣ Why Direct Mail still matters -$3B in spend per year -The power of pre-screened marketing 2️⃣ Who should explore Direct Mail -High response, low LTV -Low response, high LTV -Breakdowns by product category 3️⃣ Direct Mail vs. other channels -How does it compare to affiliate marketing? -Attribution and overlaps 4️⃣ Unit economics -Cost per piece at scale (and subscale) -How costs breakdown by postage, data, creative/printing -Typical CACs & response rates 5️⃣ The mechanics of a campaign -Checklist of how to go to market -Typical GTM timelines -How to go from 0 to in market in 8 weeks 6️⃣ Building or renting a Direct Mail function -Case for keeping in-house -Case for out-sourcing 7️⃣ Optimizing the 3 big levers -List (targeting and modeling) -Offer -Creative 8️⃣ Ways to solve attribution -Invitation codes, QR codes, vanity URLs -GEO holdout tests 9️⃣ The future of Direct Mail A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:   Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo! https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=feb Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com