Liminal Living

S2 E20: Karl Forehand: From Fundie Baptist to Spiritual without Labels Often, church can become more about keeping the systems running smoothly, the people happily entertained, and money flowing into the plates. But what happens when you have to grieve or enter a season of suffering or become disabled? Karl Forehand is a former Southern Baptist Pastor and Church planter and revitalizer who went through a season of deconstruction shortly after the 2015 election cycle. He could no longer associate with a faith that was more about conservative politics, religious nationalism, and exclusion of the marginalized. He unlabeled himself, became open, and started to explore. Karl is author of 7 books, speaker, and podcaster. He and his wife, Laura, founded The Desert Sanctuary, a resting place for spiritual nomads. Karl was a bi-vocational pastor for 20 years and has training in spiritual leadership coaching, plant-based nutrition, and spiritual direction. He lives in Missouri with his wife Laura and dog Winston. He has three grown children and two grandchildren. Karl and Laura call Rock Port, MO their home. Karl, recently disabled, is recovering from a stroke. All of Karl’s works can be found here: https://rb.gy/pxczu Time Stamps for the episode: 00:41 Introduction 04:37 Baptist Fundie Roots 09:07 Deconstructing Religious Hate 13:19 Farewell to Hell 17:48 Investigating New Paths 22:52 Becoming who you already are 28:20 The Difference between “Here” and “present” 32:56 The Practice of Recollection 38:19 No space for grief 42:16 I lost my Dad, Karl had a stroke, an honest conversation 46:52 A world not built for disability is hard for us 51:47 Unintentionally slowing down because of disability 55:02 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

S2 E19: Tom Rundel: Don’t spiritualize your problems, claim your confidence Have you ever felt like God abandoned you and left you in the midst of a storm that you could not overcome? In this episode, I solo riff on Matthew 14’s account of Christ walking on the water and calming the storm. I take note of the parabolic writing style and use that knowledge to explore the meaning behind some of the imagery in this parable. Christ dismisses the disciples and they are battered by some wind and waves. Time Stamps for the episode: 0:44: Introduction 4:45: Matthew 14 and the parabolic style of this story 9:05 Dismissed and abandoned by God 13:25 spiritualizing your problems gets spiritual answers that don’t work in real life 17:42 Take courage is NOT dismiss your anxiety 21:56 Claim your inner authority 26:00 God is not a fixer of problems, but an empowerer of souls 30:22 The saving grace of community 33:13 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever been burned out, had PTSD, had an existential crisis? So has our guest for tToday. I talked with Dan White Jr. a church planting strategist with the V3 Movement, co-founder of the Praxis Gathering, author of 4 books, pastor and Church planter for the last 20+ years, as well as co-founding and building The Kineo Renewal and Retreat Center in Puerto Rico from the ground up with his wife Tonya. Dan has a gentle soul with the gift of healing, which I experienced first hand at a retreat at Kineo. There he delivered his story of pastoring, burning out twice, dealing with CPTSD, struggling with his ego, and recovering to find new vision. He tells his story here today, as well as using his degree in counseling and theology to blend a helpful understanding of a pathway toward your healing. You can find all of Dan’s materials on his website www.danwhitejr.com Time Stamps for the episode: 2:20: Introduction 6:52: Deconstructing with Rich Mullins 11:55: Journey out of Fundie Baptist and into Anabaptist 17:17: Entering the Ministry 21:34: Experiencing Abuse and burnout in ministry 26:05: The inner work of Ego exploration 30:36: Diagnosed with CPTSD 36:04: Skimming the Ego with Howard Thurman 41:40: Cracking the Ego open for transformation 45:07: Jung’s 5 foundational needs of the ego 50:36: How to live in the liminal space of a healed ego and a broken world 55:12: Three responses from others to your true self 59:13: Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Does hell exist? Who goes there? Does Matthew 13’s furnace reference talk about it? Today, I spout off about my views of hell, judgment, and justice. I share my thoughts around the passage from Matthew 13, commonly called the parable of the wheat and tares, where the wheat and tares are allowed to grow together until the end of the age when the wheat is harvested and put into a barn and the tares are gathered and burned in a furnace. Does this passage talk about hell? If yes, what does it mean? If not, how do we interpret it? I also go into the four classic views of hell, Eternal Conscious Torment, Annihilationism, Purgatorial, and Universal Reconciliation, and talk about where I land these days, why, and what it means for the lived experience of faith. Time Stamps for the episode: 0:40: Introduction 2:02: Matthew 13, weeds and wheat 3:08: Eternal Conscious Torment is the central dogma of fundamentalism 7:40: Judaistic Roots of Mattew 13 12:26: Agricultural Sabotage! 15:44: The Big Baddie in the Bible is not Satan, it’s Empire 20:49: The Kingdom of God is like… 7 different stories 26:14: Justice and Judgment 31:35: Hell and the end of the world 36:51: Gritty Justice in Matthew 42:01: The Daniel Reference in Matthew 13 45:07: 4 Views of Hell, 2 Views of Justice 51:48: Universal Reconciliation 55:52: Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

S2 E16: Lance Hough, The Abuse of Commodifying Creativity What happens when a church continually commodifies creativity for a Sunday morning experience? Today, I talked with a friend and former church creative director, Lance Hough. Lance experienced leadership abuse under a few different pastors that led to an existential crisis concerning his faith and how we experience it in a modern western church experience, and the eventual leaving of ministry and healing of trauma it caused. Lance is a creative individual, and many churches can take advantage of creatives and transform art into a religious commodity to be bought and sold and traded on a Sunday. It ends up being an abusive cycle for those who create and have a stunting effect on the maturity of the attendees who become religious consumers. Time Stamps for the episode: 2:08: Introduction 4:26: Faith roots 7:47: Serving in Church to Career in Church 11:32: How the Sausage is Made 15:51: Abusive Leadership 19:56: Crisis of Career 24:57: Questioning the Leadership and structure 29:42: A Beautiful New Community 35:07: A Fresh Start in Ministry 40:37: Existential Crisis of a Creative Leader’s Heart 46:06: Church Franchising 51:55: Putting the “Ass” in “P-ass-tor” 57:13: Losing Community Again 1:02:52 Commodifying Creativity 1:08:03 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What happens when a pastor’s kid and a worship leader from a Marshill satellite in Seattle becomes an Agnostic? Today on the podcast I talk with long time friend, Caleb Jacobson. Caleb comes from a conservative evangelical background, is a pastor's kid in a family with a heritage of pastoral vocation. Caleb had an existential crisis with his faith, hit a reset button on belief, and reconstructed what he could. He left the pastorate and left the faith and became an Agnostic. I think that it is important to learn of all kinds of Liminal experiences and stories and practice empathy and understanding. I remain curious and ask questions seeking to understand Caleb’s perspectives and learn along the way. I hope you do as well. Time Stamps for this episode: 2:21: Introduction 4:18: Rockstar for Jesus 9:16: Working at Marshill 14:45: Cleaning the slate of all belief 19:36: Journeying toward Atheism, stopping at Agnosticism 24:08: Questioning the Christian Worldview indoctrination 28:05: Being Ok with the discomfort of unbelief 31:25: Why Atheism and not progressive Christianity? 36:22: Finding peace 41:05: Fear of Death and life eternal 46:53: What is life after death? 51:49: Liminal Living Practice of mindful meditation 56:02: How’d your family take this? 1:01:46 Conclusions SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today I asked many of you to submit your questions to me for an Ask Me Anything episode, and I was absolutely shocked at the amount of questions I received. I have four pages of your questions, and today I take on just one, but I do a deep dive into the world of mental health. While I am not a mental health expert, I have much work on the intersection of spirituality and mental health. So today we get very practical about how much of the Western Evangelical tradition does not equip us to handle things like trauma and stress, but instead increases it in many cases. So we take on the spiritual practice of meditation today, what happens physiologically and spiritually as we discuss Tim’s question: “How do you view the confluence of spirituality and mental health? In other words, what have you learned about how to navigate difficult seasons from both a spiritual perspective and a mental health perspective?” With a revisit and deep dive into Jason’s question: Is there a difference between Christian meditation and meditation in other religions? Time Stamps for the episode: 0:59: Introduction 2:57: Spirituality and Psychological Health 8:31: Self-Knowledge vs Self-Righteousness 14:36: Church only took me half way 19:50: Becoming Fully Human and Fully Alive 26:00: The Spirituality of the Nervous System 31:11: Evangelicalism stressed me out 36:44: The Spirituality of the Parasympathetic Nervous System 41:06: The Physiology of Meditation 46:05: The Unconscious Mind 51:06: 6 Forms of Christian Meditation: Lectio Divina, Visio Divina, Ignatian Exercises 56:36: 6 Forms of Christian Meditation: Centering Prayer, Mantra Prayer, Breath Prayer 1:00:18: Meditation of other faith traditions 1:02:11: Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today I asked many of you to submit your questions to me for an Ask Me Anything episode, and I was absolutely shocked at the amount of questions I received. I have four pages of your questions, and today I took on four of them. #1 from Joseph: Do I have to love myself in order to have a relationship with God or to love God? #2 from Jason: How does one "grow in their faith?" #3 from Jacki: What is the point of praying on behalf of someone? Does a person/s praying for someone bring them to the attention of God and he gives them grace, protection, or healing? My thought is that God is already taking care of that person and has them on his radar. It just doesn’t seem like we need to remind God to have grace or mercy on an individual. #4 from Jeremie: Do you think the current interpretation of prayer in modern Christianity is lost in translation? Meaning instead of asking an omnipotent spirit in the sky for favors, prayer is intended to be a time of meditation and introspection, maybe similar to meditative practices in other religious traditions. #5 from Jason: Is there a difference between Christian meditation and meditation in other religions? #6 from Tim: - If you could give spiritual advice to your 20 year old self, what would the most important thing you'd say? Time Stamps for the episode: 0:45: Introduction 3:45: The Revivalists Screwed with us 8:48: The Worst Sermon Ever Preached 13:53: Charles Finney Ruins Church 19:16: The Origin of “Backslider” Theology 26:13: Fostered Religious Anxiety 32:45: Stages of Love 37:57: Psychological Projection and Hate 42:43: 3 Dimensional Spiritual Growth: Discipleship 48:25: 3 Dimensional Spiritual Growth: Spiritual Formation, Contemplation 53:50: What Does Prayer Do? 1:01:44: Christian Meditation vs Other Religions 1:03:48: Advice I’d give my 20 year old self: Chill out All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today I asked many of you to submit your questions to me for an Ask Me Anything episode, and I was absolutely shocked at the amount of questions I received. I have four pages of your questions, and today I took on four of them. #1 from Paul: How do you recognize God during deconstruction when God seems to have completely disappeared? #2 from Scott: When there are tragedies in people's lives, what other things can we genuinely say to them other than “we are praying for you”, or “it’s all in Gods plan” that will be helpful in their situation? #3 from Lance: The problem of evil; "If there is a loving God, then why does He allow bad things to happen?" #4 Tim: When you have gone through your toughest season(s), what was your spiritual "North Star?" Along the same lines... what was your biggest fear during that season? And along the same lines... where were you most misunderstood? Time Stamps for the episode: 0:45: Introduction 2:41: Paul: Finding God’s presence during a Deconstruction of irreconcilable ideas 12:28: Paul: Finding God’s presence during Deconstruction in a Season of Suffering 19:37: Paul: Finding God’s presence during Deconstruction due to abuse 25:42: Paul: Finding God’s presence during a Deconstruction of Dark Night of the Soul 30:53: Scott: The best thing to say when someone is suffering, anxiety dumping is not it 38:47: Lance: If God is all powerful AND all loving, why is there suffering? 49:08: Tim: During a season of suffering what was your North Star? 58:19: Tim: During a season of suffering how were you misunderstood and what was your greatest fear? 1:02:28: Outro All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today I talked to Kevin Sweeney about his newest book “The Joy of Letting Go…,” eventually we got there, at least. First we talk about a lot of amazing things, his journey as a teenager using psychedelic mushrooms and meeting God, his journey into Bible College, his deconstruction from that understanding and into Black Womanist Liberation Theology. Kevin is a wise man with a unique journey, and that makes it hard to sum up our conversation in a paragraph. Kevin was co-founder and lead pastor of Imagine Church in Honolulu for almost ten years, He was co-founder of the Honolulu based creative collective The (un)Commons, He has also organized and taught multiple Enneagram Experience events in Hawai’i and California, he helped lead “Saying Grace,” a curated gathering of dinners and stories between the church and the LGBTQ community in Honolulu. He is the host of podcast “The Church Needs Therapy” and is a best selling author. His two books are “The Making of a Mystic: My Journey with Mushrooms, My Life as a Pastor, and Why It’s Okay For Everyone to Relax,” and “The Joy of Letting Go.” He currently lives and surfs In Honolulu with his wife and co-founder of Imagine, Christine, and their two kids, True and Mikayla. Listen to his podcast: https://rb.gy/iwemt Website: www.https://www.kevinsweeneynow.com/ His on Amazon: https://rb.gy/3i8sh Time Stamps for the episode: 2:19: Faith Roots and leaving the Catholic Church 7:48: Meeting God on Psychedelic Mushrooms, and an existential crisis 13:02: The search for what’s real, not just what’s right 18:09: Building a system of Belief at Bible College, then “going emergent” 22:53: A call to be a pastor and not knowing what that meant 27:35: The Summer of Emergent 33:11: Finding truth in Black Womanist Liberation Theology 38:16: Voices who shape us along the journey, stages of beleif 45:07: Voices from higher up the mountain speaking to us at different stages in different ways 51:17: Writing The Joy of Letting Go 57:29: Letting go is not spiritual bypassing but walking the paschal mystery 1:03:13: The Gospel narratives of Letting Go. 1:08:25: We don’t want to wake up 1:10:18: Conclusion All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.