Liminal Living

Today on the podcast I talk with prolific author and chief boat rocker, Keith Giles. We talk about his upbringing in the a fundamentalist Baptist Church, and his journey through deconstruction. You can find Keith's writings here: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/keithgiles/ and here: https://www.bk2sq1.com/ and here: https://rb.gy/9yjeod all music in this episode provided by axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What happens when the church space you helped create and cultivate is not hospitable and inclusive of those in your own family with neurodivergent minds? Deb Gregory shares her story of traversing liminal spaces from her childhood into her professional career and how Ignatian spiritual practices have helped “moor” her to her faith and family. Deb is a spiritual director, former documentary filmmaker and church planter, and the founder of Flourish Contemplative Center. She is also the producer and host of the Betwixt Podcast. Having spent much of her life in transit, Deb enjoys the slow growth of roots with her family in Ormond Beach, FL. Where she enjoys listening with you: Flourish Spiritual Direction Where you can enjoy listening with her: Betwixt Podcast Time Stamps for the episode: 00:48 Introductions 02:50 What is Liminal Space Anyways? 06:37 Living in two worlds, belonging to neither 11:35 Where is home? 14:25 Faith roots, paradoxes, and contradictions 18:49 Lack of common spaces to hold paradox 22:08 Deconstruction as expected season of faith 27:17 Liminal seasons built into the liturgical calendar 32:39 Making space for folks in liminality 38:47 Neurodiversity and Disability in the church 44:26 Ignatius taking a cannonball to the knee 50:11 Ignatian spirituality 101 55:53 Ignatian practices 1:01:19 Pastors in liminal seasons 1:05:42 Inscape: the particular beauty of this moment 1:09:37 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A pastor who had 12 victims over the course of 20 years is found out. The patriarchal leadership of the church wants to sweep it all under the rug quickly. But *Kate, who happens to be married to this pastor, says “No!” She is not allowed to lead in this culture in spite of being the greatest leader in the room with the best plan, so she decides to take matters into her own hands. This is her story of trauma, tragedy, reconciliation, and healing. *Kate is not her real name, but a pseudonym to protect her from ongoing abusive actions of former church leaders and former husband. Time Stamps for the episode: 00:48 Introductions 02:30 Breckie in Australia with a Cuppa 03:58 Protecting her Anonymity 06:29 Inoculation makes you blind to abuse 11:14 Rebuilding the soul after recognizing abuse 15:36 The Truth comes out 20:32 Seeking to hold him accountable 25:48 Abusive patriarchy favors the abusive man 30:14 Reconciliation begins… but not with him 34:49 Rebuilding a life 37:17 Learning self-care and boundaries after helping everyone else 41:59 The Healing journey begins 47:08 “Gospeling the Heart” 50:03 “The Father Heart of God” 54:26 Somatic Bodily Practices for Healing 57:59 Healing Non-sexual touch 1:02:34 Healing of song, sound, and puppies 1:05:52 You cannot think your way into trauma healing 1:08:14 Conclusions SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever had someone use the phrase, “Well, the Bible says…” to correct you? But then they dismiss other things the Bible says with a “yeah, but…” Who we offer our “yeah but” comments to and who we hard line with “the Bible says” reveals more about the one using the phrase than it does the Bible. Today I talk about why I no longer use the phrase, “The Bible says…” and how it is often a signal of a theology that is static, exclusive, elitist, or abusive. This summarizes some of the things I learned from the last 4 interviews I did. To get there we meander through the historical narrative flow of the old and new testaments. So if you have ever struggled to make sense of what the Bible is saying, and why, it might help to understand the story. Time Stamps for the Episode: Time Stamps for the episode: 00:40 Introductions 01:54 I Don’t say, “The Bible Says” anymore 05:38 The Tabernacle Narrative 09:31 Kings and Temples Narrative 12:19 Babylon, Persia, and Greece! Oh My! 16:29 Rome, Herod, and Second Temple 19:41 It’s the end of the world as we know it 22:27 Theology: Our static Temple 27:54 Theology: our elitist and and exclusive Temple 33:02 Theology: our abusive Temple 34:56 LGBTQ+ texts vs Greed, Power, Corruption texts 37:42 Abusive Church Growth Tactics 43:30 The Bible says, says more about you than the Bible 46:52 Tables instead of Temples 52:44 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Who gets to decide the modern dogmas of who is in and who is out? Probably not the people Jesus would hang around with, marginalized communities. I have an honest and beautiful conversation with author Kathy Khang today about her experience as a Christian in America who immigrated from Korea. And she highlights things from that perspective that I had a hard time seeing from my perspective. Our guest today is Kathy Khang, a mother of three, wife of one, and a passionate advocate for embracing the complexities of identity, spirituality, and social justice. Kathy's story is one of transformation and empowerment, rooted in her love for Jesus and a deep appreciation for the simple joys of life, like yoga, nail polish, lipstick, and the bond she shares with her girlfriends. Kathy's journey as a writer, speaker, coffee enthusiast, and even a yoga teacher has taken her from the pages of childhood diaries to newsrooms and co-authored books. Her next book co-authored with Matt Mikalatos is called Loving Disagreement which is about how to sustain community in a polarized society. It landed on Englewood Book Review’s list of most anticipated books of 2023. She is also a co-host of The Fascinating Podcast which is on season 11 now. With over two decades of experience in parachurch ministry, working with college students and training leaders, Kathy has been a force for change, encouraging others to find and use their voices to bring about positive transformation. Her recent book, "Raise Your Voice: Why We Stay Silent and How to Speak Up," inspires everyone to embrace their influence and work toward creating a more just and compassionate world. So, join us today as we dive deep into Kathy Khang's inspiring journey of using one's voice to shape a better future. Time Stamps for the episode: 00:40 Introductions 03:52 Good Coffee 09:09 Spiritual Roots in the Korean Church in Chicago 13:44 Renting church space and false hospitality 18:31 Rethinking Hospitality as the Church 21:58 Loving Disagreement what it is and is NOT 27:04 Love is not nice 32:01 Toxic Positivity 36:45 The Moving Goalposts of expectation 41:47 False apostolic authority used to create exclusive dogma 44:12 What loving your enemy can look like 48:31 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Does God have a Gender? Is Karma real? What did the Bible say about Dinosaurs? And other fun questions in this ask me anything episode where I take on your theological questions: Scott: According to Christianity, the only way is through Jesus. According to another religion, the only way is through their belief system. How can we all be right? Does God give many paths that lead to him? Lance: How do we know which religion is right? And if Christianity is it, how do we know which version/interpretation is right? Rosey: If God created humans in his image, male and female, what does that actually mean? Is God not genderless? Wendi: What’s the deal with karma and the Christian faith? Nic: did the Creator create us individually or broad stroke? What level of detail went into His design? Lance: How does the Bible coexist with science? Time Stamps for the episode: 00:49 Introductions 05:48 The Benedictine Monk who taught me to meditate 11:10 Are there many paths to God? 16:23 Labels on something vs Essence of something 21:26 Love is the point and humility is the foundation 23:30 How do we know which religion is right? 28:42 Is God a man? 33:37 God as “the Father” 39:06 God as “the Mother” 44:43 Gender and the Incarnation 47:56 Karma and Buddhism 53:36 Karma’s 4 Noble Truths and 8 fold Path 57:33 Karma and Christianity 1:01:32 How does God “make” us and the world? 1:05:51 Are Dinosaurs in the Bible? 1:10:13 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Why have we spiritualized so much of Jesus’ teaching on poverty, money, and forgiveness? It is the only way we could make sense of his teachings while wearing the insulation that power provides us. But what does Christ say about money and power? How have we harnessed what Jesus calls the god of mammon into our methodologies of modern church growth tactics? Today I talk with Matt Tebbe, an expert voice in the areas concerning mammon, which is the Bible’s word for the worship of the economy, colonial empire, authoritarian abuse, and patriarchy. Matt says hard things, but good things. His voice is honest and succinct. Matt Tebbe. holds a Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, has been featured in the pages of Leadership Journal and Shattered Magazine. Matt's insights are also featured in the book 'What Pastors Wish Their Congregations Knew,' authored by Kurt Fredrickson and Cameron Lee. He's also been a prominent voice in thought-provoking platforms such as Missio Alliance and The V3 Movement. Matt's collaborative spirit shines through his co-authorship of 'Having the Mind of Christ' alongside Ben Sternke which won the IVP Reader's Choice Award. Matt is more than just a writer and thinker. He's a practitioner of transformational leadership as the co-founder of Gravity Leadership, and he serves as the co-rector of an Anglican church plant known as 'The Table,' nestled in the northeast suburbs of Indianapolis. Join us today as we dive into Matt's journey and how he balances it all with his life alongside his wife Sharon and their children, Deacon and Celeste. To see Matt’s work, please visit his website: https://www.thetableindy.org/, https://gravityleadership.com/, https://substack.com/@matttebbe, Time Stamps for the episode: 00:52 Introductions 03:58 Climbing Mt. Whitney 08:56 Facing Internal Demons on the Mountain 14:04 Spiritual Roots in Catholicism 18:33 Grace in Community & Abuse on Church Staff 23:57 Abusive Leadership Embraces Power and Causes Trauma 30:18 Using Your Voice with Clarity and Humility 34:36 Spiritualizing the Poor is a Hermeneutic Mistake 40:17 The God of Mammon, Power, Money, and Economy 46:45 What “Love of Money” Actually Looks Like 51:47 Exposing Undercover Idolatry 57:08 Mammon’s Weapon is Fear of Death 1:00:50 What Really Causes Inflation 1:06:27 Gatekeepers of the Bible Don’t Actually Like the Bible 1:13:14 Mammon “Works” and Why We Can’t See It. 1:18:40 How to Love our Neighbor 1:21:11 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What if the severe dogmatic cruelty of our modern expression of faith is an add on of Western Colonialism? What would happen if you started to pull on the thread of colonialism in your faith. What would come out? What would remain? Today I talk with Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley, an expert voice in the areas concerning spirituality, earth-care, racial and ethnic identity, diversity, peace, social justice, eco-justice, interreligious dialogue, Indigenous studies, agriculture, and spirituality. Randy is also co-founder and Program Director of the George Fox Master of Arts Intercultural Studies degree, the Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds. Author of 9 books, including An Indigenous theology and the Western Worldview, and host of the Peacing it all together podcast. He is a member of the Cherokee nation, and considers himself an indigenous person who follows Christ. We talk about his experiences as an indigenous person within the western church.To see Randy’s work, please visit his website: www.Randywoodley.com | www.Eloheh.org | www.elohehseeds.com Time Stamps for the episode: 00:43 Introductions 09:06 Cherokee roots 13:30 My Oppressive Missionary Colonizer Years 19:02 Colonialism woven into the Christian faith 22:37 The Violence of Christian Supremacy 28:06 Conservative politics picks up the torch of colonialism 31:45 The Problem of Disembodied Theology 36:55 Shalom and the Failed Western Experiment 42:20 Decolonizing the Faith 47:16 Colonial Theology that needs to Go: Hell, Exclusivity, and Original Sin 51:19 The Practice of Vulnerable Conversation 53:40 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today I talk with Faith rooted organizer, Anthony Smith. Anthony headed up the removal and relocation of a Confederate Statue in his city of Salisbury, North Carolina. We talk about his faith, his work, for the poor and marginalized of his city from his position as a pastor and city council member. He is a man rooted in place and dedicated to seeing the Kingdom of God come about in his neighborhood. Time Stamps for the episode: 00:49 Introductions 02:39 Faith Rooted Organizer 07:04 Anthony vs Confederate Statue 11:56 An Ecumenical Exorcism of White Nationalism and Racism 17:10 An Apocalyptic moment and call 22:24 Christians call to apocalyptic action 27:15 Hyper individualism and its damage on society 33:33 The Gospel and White Jesus made an atheist 38:37 The Gospel evolve to meet us 43:50 White Christian Nationalism is a form of bad Atheism 47:53 Christianity as ideology for the nation state is bad news 52:15 A Heart attack and an existential crisis 57:35 The Sound of the Genuine 1:02:22 Don’t live apologetically 1:07:57 Pay attention and find purpose 1:13:27 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

S2 E21: Tom Rundel: Ask Me Anything: Bible Deconstruction I solo riff on today’s pod and take on some more of the questions that y’all sent in as we talk about our approach to the Bible, how it has caused harm, and how we can change it going forward. The questions I take on are… Erica: Is the Bible meant to be read as a set-in-stone manual to be taken literally? Is it multiple genres, full of allegory? If literal, how are readers meant to adapt it to modern life? Jason: “If the Bible says all commandments boil down to love God and love neighbor as yourself why do churches seem to be focused more on do's and don’ts?” Jason: “Is hell real and does it matter?” Lance: What happens to people who never knew/heard about God when they die? Would a loving God punish someone for not accepting a truth they knew? What about babies/young children? Time Stamps for the episode: 00:41 Introduction 02:53 The Metaphysics of Elisha 06:43 Evangelicals and Conspiracy Theories 12:22 Left Behind was a Conspiracy Theory, not a theology 18:20 Authoritarian Leaders Capitalize on Conspiracy 21:48 Does all Scripture have Equal weight? 26:19 Erica’s Question 32:10 The Problem with Fundies 37:03 4 Principles for your ongoing relationship to the Bible 41:04 The Sound of the Genuine 43:15 Jason’s Question 47:36 Is the Church human or divine? Yes 53:45 Jason and Lance’s questions: Is Hell real? 59:15 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.