Liminal Living

Today I talk to Rohadi Nagassar about his newest book “When We Belong. Reclaiming Christianity on the Margins.” from Herald Press. Rohadi writes and speaks on the topics of decolonizing, liberation, and deconstructing western Christianity. And today we talk about just that, focusing in on talking about Deconstructing white supremacy and whiteness from our faith. He has planted two churches including an inner-city multi-ethnic expression called Cypher Church. He has also written extensively in the areas of missions and church leadership including his book, “Thrive. Ideas to lead the church in post-Christendom”. Rohadi lives in Canada, on Treaty 7 Lands, otherwise known as Calgary, and holds a Business Certificate from Mount Royal College, a BA in Economics from the University of Calgary, and a Master of Divinity from Canadian Theological Seminary. His experience includes non-profit work in both governance and organizational development. He is the past-chair of ACT Alberta, one of the largest anti-human trafficking NGOs in Canada. He’s also a director with Mosaic Ministries. Rohadi’s private sector experience includes running his marketing consultancy firm for over 20 years. Listen to his podcast: Faith in a Fresh Vibe: https://www.rohadi.com/podcast/ Website: www.rohadi.com Twitter: @rohadi Instagram: @rohadi.nagassar His books: shop.rohadi.com Time Stamps for the episode: 2:05: Tell me about your people 7:05: Finding the roots of our people before assimilation 10:40: Genetic and Generational residual trauma 14:52: “Faith roots: the only people of color in a white evangelical church 17:51: What ain’t right: White supremacy 22:29: Finding Belonging 25:35: What is actually happening in deconstruction 31:39: naming the powers of white-ness 37:42: White-ness IS the water we all swim in 44:04: White folks can find their people and roots too 47:04: White Folks roots can depolarize us from white-ness politics 49:08: Wholistic Belonging: Self, Community, Land, God 53:27: Assimilation vs Belonging 58:30: Attempts at diversity 1:03:00: Four Pillars of White Supremacy 1:06:09: Shifts in society toward Post Christian 1:11:16: Liminal Living Practices All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Dr Dave Beach lost his wife to cancer, and it triggered a deconstruction of his assumptions about the world. He found out that the propositions he claimed were not embedded deep in his own soul. He went on a journey to make sense of this event in light of his faith and eventually wrote a dissertation on the topic of Christianity and suffering with the hopes of meeting people at the intersection of their faith and suffering with hospitality and care. Dave is a retired counselor, college teacher, a current author, speaker, chaplain, and spiritual formation presenter, as well as an executive director of Four Health Family Resource Center Inc, in Saranac MI. You can find Dave’s book here: https://rb.gy/9ri2p and You can Dave’s Dissertation here: https://digitalcommons.georgefox.edu/dmin/281/ Below are the topics and time stamps of the issues we cover which includes, 2:23: Introductions 6:05: Faith Roots 8:11: Bad Songs that shaped his theology and expectation 10:23: “Faith” insulating us from reality 12:34: The First domino of deconstruction: Congregation vs my Dad 17:11: Power dynamics in churches 19:16: Pastoral Authority 22:43: A dissertation to make space for those who suffer 27:00: Jesus, the Man of Sorrows 31:50: Losing my wife to cancer 36:31: Trauma: shattering the assumptive world 39:00: Doubt, struggle, unbelief, AS a form of faith 43:46: The Role of God within suffering: Incarnation and Trinity 48:55: Suffering leads to awakening, but what about trauma damage? 54:51: Post Traumatic Growth 59:28: 5 Views of suffering in the Christian journey 1:04:47: Spiritual bypassing, disassociation, and transcendence 1:10:24: Suffering as initiation into reality, and God 1:12:39: Labels vs essence. Christian as noun and not adjective 1:19:18: Suffering dissolving illusion, bringing us into contact with reality 1:24:15: How is my faith more than a set of propositions? 1:25:49: Hope is not an emotion but an imagination 1:28:19: Conclusion All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What if deconstruction is not always losing faith? What if it can be a natural part of the faith journey that modern churches merely don’t have space for? Today, I talked with Therapist, Counselor, Campus minister, and Author, Jacci Turner about her new book: Tumbled People: Deconstructing and Reconstructing your faith. This book promises that you will find hope and encouragement for the spiritual changes you are going through, for they are a normal part of the stages of spiritual growth and development. What stage are you at? Listen in and find out. You can find Jacci’s book: https://rb.gy/haobk and https://rb.gy/osbg5 You can find Jacci at www.jacciturner.com Below are the topics and time stamps of the issues we cover which includes, 2:05: Introductions and Faith Roots 5:40: The first domino that sent her into deconstruction 10:03: Shalom, the Bible’s word for Salvation, Justice, Peace 11:50: Intro to the six stages of faith formation 15:40: Making space for deconstruction in organizations 21:14: Stage 1 Trusting openness of a child 24:39: Stage 2 Black and White rule keeping 25:22: Stage 3 Building scaffolding 28:41: Hitting the Wall 31:25: Getting through the Wall 37:23: Stage 4 Deconstructing 43:51: Stage 5 A bigger basket to hold more views 47:16: Cleansing the lenses we use to read and interpret 54:01: Stage 6 One heart and one will 55:31: Dark night, burnout, deconstruction, the wall 1:00:37: Tumbled People, a guide to deconstruction 1:03:19: Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today, I talk with author, writer, and doodle lover, Zack Hunt about his new book, Godbreathed. He shares his experience of the Nazarene Church, watching TV preacher Jack Van Impe, going to Bible college and getting hit with an academic approach to the Bible which gave him more questions than he was comfortable with. This deconstruction led him to write his first book Unraptured and as he further processed his faith he wrote Godbreathed to help people process what the Bible is and what it is not. He is a wonderful human being and I had a lot of fun chatting with him. You can find Zack’s book: https://rb.gy/5skge and https://rb.gy/n0lck You can find Zack at www.Zackhunt.net and https://substack.com/@zackhunt Below are the topics and time stamps of the issues we cover which includes, 1:47 Introduction 5:08 Puppies and dog lovers 6:20 His anti-fundie billboards around Nashville 8:30 Deconstructing Jack Van Impe, Unraptured 11:49 Voices of Guidance, Rachel Held Evans 15:11 Why he wrote Godbreathed, permission to question 19:48 Loving Scripture vs Worshiping scripture, subjectivity vs objectivity, humanity and divinity, control vs faith 26:38 the Bible as the story of God’s people told by God’s people vs History of God’s people written by God. 29:40 Finding the meaning of the Bible worthy of the God it describes, Origen and allegory. 33:20 Paul was wrong about slavery 36:05 Infallibility vs Heliocentrism, homosexuality, 37:53 History of the Fundie takeover: Pulpits, Publishers, and the Presidency 42:51 Decline of fundamentalist institutions, pastor shortage, young people exodus, same sex marriage 47:40 Inerrancy as White Supremacy and Patriarchy. 51:36 Bible as Myth, making space at the table for different views 58:39 Sola scriptura and drunk, constipated Luther 1:02:06 conformity, younger generations, MLK, justice, silent white moderate 1:06:43 Quiet quitting pastors, Trumpism, Black Lives Matter 1:10:37 The American Church is dead, now what? 1:15:05 Liminal Living when you’re excommunicated 1:18:56 Conclusion All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What does a theology of Eternal Life really look like? If you've deconstructed the idea that you need to pray a magic Jesus prayer to go to heaven when you die, what do you do with the concept of Life Eternal? In this solo recording from a teaching at my church I go into what eternal life is and is not. All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree Voiceover for this episode is provided by Play.ht SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today, I talk with Aaron McConnell, a long time friend from a previous church. He shares his experience growing up in a hyper fundamentalist Baptist church and school, where the Baptist Church down the street wasn’t fundamental enough. Also half way through Aaron turns the tables and interviews me unexpectedly about my deconstruction as a pastor and how I am doing church differently, to create safe spaces for those who are unsure of their faith. 0:48 Introduction 3:03 Not Fundie Enough for the Fundies 6:14 Jumping back into church 8:46 Planned Parenthood Protest 12:07 Guilt, Shame, Fear, the fundie toolbox 17:17 Humility from pain 21:03 “Sound of the Genuine” 22:21 Deconstruction and personal relationships 24:59 Inerrancy, Ideology, Covid Mandates 29:14 Deconstructing as a pastor, creating safe spaces 33:22 Weaponizing Dogma vs knowing you’re not infallible 38:29 A Different Church MO 40:26 Suffering “Breaks” your understanding of God 43:49 Scientific Revolution, Fundamentalist reaction, new church models 47:13 Benefits of a deconstructed pastor 50:23 Liminal Living tips 55:30 Courage to love 58:22 Fundamentalism: weaponized ideology 1:01:31 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree Voiceover for this episode is provided by Play.ht SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today I talked to Dr. David Rice about his journey into a pastoral role that followed the retirement of a beloved pastor of 33 years. They asked for change, but resisted, while shortly into this position David's father passed away. He learned that change is grief. He stayed for 8 years and left shortly after Covid shutdowns in America subsided. He had no job lined up, was emotionally spent, and moved his whole family to Oxford to weather the liminal season. The breakdown of today's conversation is as follows: 0:48 Introductions 3:20 Church Community in denial of grief 6:31 Loss of Father and personal grief 9:21 Emotional Prosperity Gospel and space to grieve 11:07 Church decline, transition, and grief process 14:43 Power Broker, leadership, boundaries, restraining orders 19:09 Church planting vs Revitalizing 22:51 leaving my pastoral role, skipped sabatical 27:06 Covid, Burnout, Everything Changed 30:49 Trauma, Loss, and Nervous System 36:01 pastoral transitions 40:38 Community, friendship, support outside church 42:18 Vocational Confidence, God’s presence, theological uncertainty 46:44 Liminality and Transformation 50:15 Expectations vs Reality 53:28 Befriending death, mortality, change 57:08 Power, Politics, Ideology, and Anxiety in the Church 1:01:11 Superheroes of the Apocalypse 1:03:18 Liminal Living 1:08:30 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree Voiceover for this episode is provided by Play.ht SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today, I talk with Jeremie Wilson, a great friend, a great musician, a great soul. He shares his experience growing up in the faith as the son of a musical evangelist, his exploration of science with his college degree, his journey into church leadership, seeing how the sausage is made, and his eventual exit of the faith when there was no hospitality to reconcile his understanding of science with the demands of fundamentalist religion. 0:48 Introduction 5:04 Faith upbringing, CCM, Kieth Green 10:06 Stress of art, poverty, and false hopes of God given fame 14:16 Prosperity Gospel, Artistic Insecurity, Success 18:59 The Bible, Justice, Politics, Christian Nationalism 23:38 Systemic Theology, Communal Conformity 27:14 Science and Faith, Young Earth Creationism, Conspiracy Thinking 33:17 At odds with the faith, no space for discussion 38:36 Quiet Quitting the Church 42:27 Trying church again, but with kids 47:30 Deacon to Elder to Board Member 52:51 Excluded 57:13 Overcoming his religious prejudice 59:22 Church as a Club, the “Agent Arena Relationship” 1:05:34 Art as Healing 1:08:42 My Gay Brother-in-Law 1:13:11 Conclusions All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: @axletree Voiceover for this episode is provided by Play.ht SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this conversation with my dear friend Dr. Paul Jones, we hear his story of deconstruction, burnout, exiting the pastoral world as a profession, abandonment by Christian friends and colleagues, and finding his way through the dark night. 0:48 Introductions 6:02 Life Post Pastor 10:14 Dark Night of the Soul 14:24 Church planting and pressure 19:07 Building the Church Machine 23:36 Ego, Burnout,Boundaries 25:36 Trump, Christian Nationalism 27:02 Depression, Almost Atheist 30:25 Spiritual Direction and Counseling 36:35 Rethinking Church 41:31 Love not Found 47:07 The Unforgivable sin: Trump 52:19 Liminal Living Tips 57:39 Conclusions All music for this episode is provided by Axeltree https://soundcloud.com/axletree Voiceover for this episode is provided by Play.ht SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today I talk to long time friend, Jayson Simonson, Chief Resource Officer of New International. We talk about his deconstruction process and his passion for eliminating poverty. 1:34 his faith story 3:23 Deconstruction and Poverty 10:21 Deconstruction and Spiritual Direction 12:10 Deconstruction and the nature of Truth 14:57 Church Bureaucracy and Truth 17:47 Church Entertainment Machine 21:56 Politicizing Poverty 31:17 Christian Authoritarian Empire 38:40 Row v Wade 41:38 January 6th Insurrection Spirit 48:28 Empowerment vs Power 52:19 Liminal Living Tips 57:24 Sources and Motivations All Music for this episode is provided by Axeltree: https://soundcloud.com/axletree Voiceover provided by: play.ht SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)  ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.