A Rational Fear

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical On the podcast this week we have two hosts from other podcasts that have been nominated for Best Comedy Podcast at the Australian Podcast Awards. Clare Stephens from Mamamia's Cancelled Podcast and Georgie Carroll from The Swab Podcast .Also on the podcast this week we're joined by friend of the show Brynn O'Brien from the Australasian Centre for Corporate Responsibility who broke down the epic battle for controll of the AGL board. A move that could see Australia's emissions drop by 10% in the coming years.We also talk:⚽️ The Wold Cup in Qatar.🐦 Elon Musk's ultimatum to his staff.🐼💖🦘 Albo restoring diplomatic relations with China.🩸 Victoria Labor's promise for free pads and tampons.🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical   Dan Ilic  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by Australian ethical. Good evening, Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:04  Hello Daniel. How are you?Dan Ilic  0:07  Good now since this since we didn't do a much of a pre show banter, I just needed to make sure you're recording your end.Lewis Hobba  0:13  Oh, yes, I am recording my Thank you, Dan. Sorry, everyone. I are very patient guests have been waiting awhile. I just forgot. Just forgot that this was on. And do you know what I was doing? I was at an event and I bumped into our friend, everyone's friend, Tom Ballard. And he told us I've got to get to the Comedy Store. I'm like, hey, I'll give you a lift. I've got nothing. And then I was driving him. And there's a there's a soccer game on at the Sydney football stadium. So we got stuck, Punt Road level traffic for like 45 minutes shooting the breeze having a great chinwag. And then I was like, Are you close? I'm like, I am not close.Dan Ilic  0:56  Well, that is fantastic. We have a football theme show for tonight. Big thank you to Australia fickle who are sponsoring the show. And also congratulations to Carmen champion and Kate millat. From the Patreon who signed up this week, they get a picture of the King each. You may remember last week, I ordered some pictures of the king. Well, congratulations, Calvin and Kate, they go into you also big thanks to Sonya and Patrick who missed out on pictures of the king. But they tried anyway.Lewis Hobba  1:21  Dan, have the pictures of the King include the Kings hands? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen his hands? Oh, yeah, they look like Frank Frankfurt's. Right, they're horrific. And he you know how he keeps getting angry about webapp pens. He can't hold a pen.Dan Ilic  1:39  Well, you know what? I will, I will send a pen and some Frankfurt's along to Kate the garment as well. So I'm a big thank you, folks on signing up on the Patreon if you want to sign up and support the show, go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear. This is a content warning for this show. This show will contain a short impression of a powerful authority figure who happens to have a lisp and if you are offended by such content, this one is not for you. Does he have a lisp? He's got a little speech impediment, but Sybil Adeste Yes, that's right. Well, little bit like my spit bill. Like you know who's got a good sibilance he's got good siblings a bomber. I love a bomb of sibilance Yeah, it's different. It's richer. Yep. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on Gadigal land in the nation's sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  2:26  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of a rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:39  Tonight, White Ribbon organizers canceled plans to have 50 Men ride jet skis around Sydney Harbour to raise awareness about violence against women. Instead, they're gonna have a pop poll, and a sad day for food delivery ecosystems as the beloved Deliveroo has gone extinct. Witnesses say the last ever deliver was seen circling around the apartment block looking for an entrance before giving up and after much controversy. Norman Swan has publicly apologized for his terrible pronunciation of COVID-19 It's the 18th of November with more shuffling of chairs and AGL This is irrational fear.We're gonna rational fear I'm your host former head of risk at FTX crypto exchange Dan Ilic. And this is the podcast that takes the status headlines. It's a little bit of a tickle. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight both and nominated for the Best Comedy podcast at the Australian Podcast Awards. It's returning friend of the show Adelaide funniest medical professional from the swab podcast. It's nurse Georgie Cairo.Georgie Carroll  3:48  Sofia Good day Dan Lewis.Dan Ilic  3:51  You go and now Georgie How are you preparing for the for the for the awards, a winner and award mindset coming up this Monday.Georgie Carroll  3:58  Might might even start listening to podcasts.Dan Ilic  4:04  And it's first time fear monger flying solo without her twin sister. It's Mamma Mia is editor in chief and host of the canceled podcast. Claire Stevens welcome Claire.Clare Stephens  4:13  Hello, will I'll be seeing you at the Podcast Awards. One idea.Dan Ilic  4:17  Oh, excellent. What do you what are you gonna do to get yourself in a podcast award mindset? what's your what's your game?Clare Stephens  4:22  So my sister and I have decided we're never going to be invited to any other Australian award show like the low gays or the arias. We're never going to make it to the Emmys or anything like that. So we're treating the Podcast Awards as our logins. So we'll be getting really dressed up we'll be going really, really over the top and just making everybody uncomfortable I think is is where it's at. SoDan Ilic  4:49  it's a shame you know, Richard, Richard Wilkins won't be there to give everyone cocaine it will be real devastating. And the podcast no podcast is gonna afford cocaine nicely. The only ones that can. Tony and Ryan The other ones that can afford cocaine they just did that million dollar deal with Spotify.Georgie Carroll  5:03  Well, you know a table though to you then don't you Claire? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not even going I'm gonna be in Adelaide so you are rock on without me. And you know I've written a speech because of winning butDan Ilic  5:20  well if you want it to want us to do it for you and pass it on to Luis, he'll read it out for you. And he's the co host of many podcasts and rush to irrational fears is one of them. He's a man that makes money because he is the voice of honey. It is Lewis Hall by welcome Louis.Lewis Hobba  5:32  Hello Dan. How are you? Oh, it'sDan Ilic  5:35  so he's such a sexy voice.Lewis Hobba  5:38  Yeah. Next week I'm going to the Podcast Awards and the arias it's a it's a real awards week for me.Georgie Carroll  5:46  Music jam Lewis, why?Lewis Hobba  5:48  I don't know why we're there. Actually. Were just there. Were just there. Carpet meet.Dan Ilic  5:58  Coming up later, we talked to Brynn O'Brien about how a board shuffle at ato could possibly bring about the most dramatic drop in carbon emissions in Australia's history. But first here is a message from this week's sponsor.Unknown Speaker  6:12  This Sunday, the entire globe descends on Cata for the event no one will talk about it's the turning a blind eye World CupUnknown Speaker  6:22  football players ends up picking a chip Patty CIO for the wildcards alleged Oh J Trump, every game as a loser. There are just lots more losers and football teams play Oh, I've seen jockstraps treated better than the construction workers in QatarUnknown Speaker  6:38  32 nations will go head to head and then turn their heads to look the other way.Unknown Speaker  6:44  And they've completely mistakes. Look at that. The exploitation, the corruption, the discrimination, the total inability to buy a beer.Unknown Speaker  6:54  Which country will rationalize the cost of kicking around a ball on a field in a country without fieldsUnknown Speaker  7:01  I've got to say cats are is hosting the most awful job that I've ever refused to witness and the final score is migrant deaths 6500 versus the worldUnknown Speaker  7:12  now, interest get ready to ignore all of the action further turning a blind eye World Cup or ticket will buy you a whole seat that was installed by someone who died of heat exhaustion.Dan Ilic  7:25  Thank you for that very classy sponsor there. Yes, the FIFA World Cup in Qatar kicks off this week and much like the living area of Donald Trump Jr's house, there's an elephant in the room. Cat as human rights abuses have well been documented in the lead up to this World Cup and there's you know, heaps of problematic things but the English comedian journalists it has highlighted one of them and is applying pressure in his own unique way. Here is Joe Lysaght. To explain thisJoe Lycett  7:51  is a message to David Beckham. I consider you along with Kim Woodburn and Monty Don to be a gay icon. You're the first premiership footballer to do shoots with gay magazines like attitude to speak openly about your gay fans, and he married a Spice Girl, which is the gayest thing a human being can do. But now it's 2022 and you signed a reported 10 million pound deal with Cata to be their ambassador during the FIFA World Cup. Qatar was voted as one of the worst places in the world to be gay. homosexuality is illegal punishable by imprisonment. And if you're Muslim, possibly even death. You've always talked about the power of football as a force for good, which suggests to me that you've never seen West Brom, but generally I agree. So with that in mind, I'm giving you a choice. If you end your relationship with Cata I'll donate this 10 grand of my own money as a grand for every million euro reportedly getting to charities that support queer people in football. However, if you do not that midday next Sunday, I will throw this money into a shredder just before the opening ceremony of the World Cup and stream it live on a website I've registered called Bendis like beckham.com not just the money, but also your status as a gay icon will be shredded, you'll be forcing me to commit a crime. Although even then I reckon I get off more likely than I would if I got caught whacking off a lad in Doha. The choice is yours. I look forward to hearing from you.Dan Ilic  9:12  What I love most about that is he is kind of like this gay Bond villain and it's fantastic. Georgie Do you think Joe lice is going to change David Beckham's mindBrynn O'Brien  9:22  noGeorgie Carroll  9:24  no I mean he has been a good guy icon as as our backup but now he's gonna burn it all know and ease Yeah, I don't know if Marian a Spice Girl is a gay so you can do I think probably Marian one of Backstreet Boys would be that would be for doing like like you know they just put it in the wrong country again like Russia last time wasn't it and that wasn't particularly gay friendly.Lewis Hobba  9:50  So thinking 2026 North Korean World Cup.Georgie Carroll  9:56  I know. Backwards, don't ya and then you're like, well, we've only just had our first gay bye I have basketball I like it's sport does have a fairway accom in terms of a in fact my boys I got 16 and 18 year old do a soccer mad and they reckon Gary Lineker said there's two premiership football is going to come out during the World Cup. Oh, about that close. How is it this year and they're only just having that I know we've had one premiership player before haven't we bought,Clare Stephens  10:27  but it'd be really clever to do it during the World Cup. Like given given where it is. And given the conversation, it'd be such a it really shines a spotlight on it even more than than this video, which a word fromGeorgie Carroll  10:41  the World Cup is you can come and wave your rainbow flags, but don't do anything against our culture. So I think COVID out my warrant. Yeah, a bit of jail time. I don't know. I don't know how they're gonna do it.Lewis Hobba  10:55  It's crazy. It's crazy that like, given faith, his track record over the last like decade, that they managed to find a new way to be terrible. Like, yeah, they were already you're just like, these are the worst people in the world. And and then they're like, Wait, hold our own 120 Olivia, we can be worse, although they'reGeorgie Carroll  11:13  holding themselves out as the most progressive of the Arab nations is what they're saying.Dan Ilic  11:18  Yes, yes. The the Arab nation that has an embassy for the Taliban is the most progressive. All the Arab nations. Yeah.Clare Stephens  11:28  It's just such a PR does it like you just imagine these people sitting in a room being like wish we have it? Yeah, we'll have it in Qatar. There'll be no issue with that, like, look at their laws. No, no, it'd be absolutely fine.Dan Ilic  11:38  Not even not even that let's let's look at Do they have any grace in Qatar? No, they don't. We have to we have to be we have to import some grass. We have to build some stadiums.Clare Stephen  11:47  It also feels a little bit strange to be potentially shredding money during such a horrible time for the economy because it isLewis Hobba  11:57  also for him, like 10 million pounds must be nothing for him.Clare Stephen  12:01  That's what I'm really confused about. Because I saw 10 million and I went mate, you don't need the 10 mil but then I saw 150 million and I was like we all have a price.Dan Ilic  12:12  Well, Claire, what's the amount of money that you need to you know, to sell out? SoClare Stephen  12:15  I think about this a lot. Because I'm just like, you know, not a lot and it's really embarrassing. Sometimes I think 100 bucks, and I do something pretty freakin humiliating in terms of my values, or harder No, the thing that annoys me about this is that I'm like the back ends are fine. Like with like, with or without the 10 100 and 50 million. You're very comfortable. I actually get quite stressed when I think about people who have too much money. I think that must be stressful because where is it up?Georgie Carroll  12:54  I reckon I've got exactly the right amount of money and I'd still do dodgy stuff for $100.Dan Ilic  13:02  Can I say we always need more money to irrational fear. So, if you want us to do something dodgy with it head to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear and chip inLewis Hobba  13:12  on ethical sniper is listening.Dan Ilic  13:17  If unethical super is listening and they want to you know double the amount of money Australian ethical is giving us let us know.Lewis Hobba  13:23  I guess the Beckham's do have to find out. Brooklyn's like constant nepotistic failures and his weird photography careers and is like branch into modeling and theater or music or whatever. I'mDan Ilic  13:36  glad you brought that up, Louis because that is a whole episode on Claire Stephens podcast canceled. You can listen to it on the Mamma Mia feed. I listened to it this week. I learned all sorts of things about somebody I didn't know that person was Brooklyn Beckham.Lewis Hobba  13:52  I love it. I am so excited to listen to Lewis heDan Ilic  13:55  Lewis. Here's what I learned from Claire's Podcast. I'm gonna mansplain Claire's podcast back. I learned that he he had his own. He wanted to learn how to cook. He doesn't know how to cook. But somehow someone gave him a cooking show. And he has all these chefs that prepare the food for him. And he actually doesn't know anything about cooking any mixed up what butter and cheese was basically the same. And heClare Stephens  14:17  gets paid $100,000 In episode to learn how to.Dan Ilic  14:21  And that is $98,000 more in episode than I've ever been paid to work on TV in my life. Claire,Lewis Hobba  14:28  I assume you have and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on his book of photography.Clare Stephens  14:33  I appreciate how he did right in his book of photography. He said he was in Kenya and he took this photo of the elephant and they're hard to capture. And I thought if you are going to be a photographer, it is your job to capture it. But also if you Google elephant, there are some excellent photos that come up Brooklyn that are better than your one. He's not.Lewis Hobba  14:53  If no one if people listening and they haven't seen it. It's basically just a photo of it's just like a black photo with a vague outline of an elephant and the caption of it is like, elephants can be quite hard to capture and you're like, there is nothing easier in the world to take a photo of than a giant fucking elephant, you absolute idiot.Clare Stephens  15:13  I actually feel quite sorry for him because once I went really deep, isn't a man with no talent. And that must be so hard. Because you hold the opportunity and no skillGeorgie Carroll  15:25  and impressive data until this week,Dan Ilic  15:28  I felt really sad listening to the podcast, I was like, Oh, we shouldn't be talking about this guy. We should put this guy in TAFE.Unknown Speaker  15:35  This is rational fear. All of the photos were taken by Brooklyn himself.Unknown Speaker  15:41  I started taking some just on my phone. And several photos from the collection have already been released. And yes, I started posting them on Instagram. But a few years later, Penguin came to me. I feel like it turned out pretty well.Dan Ilic  15:53  You're listening. very rational fear this week. Second fear. Elon Musk is like the dog who caught the self driving car. Now he's got Twitter, can he fix it before it explodes. So far since buying Twitter for $44 billion, just a couple of weeks ago, he said half the workforce that's about 3700 people. He's also fired most of the contractors about 4000 to 5000 contractors who found out over Twitter that they got fired or just couldn't log on to their email address. Now there are so many people who know what kind of company mass has sent this all hands email. This is the email he sent a couple of days ago, said going forward to build a break through Twitter 2.0, and succeed in an increasingly competitive world, we need to be extremely hardcore. This will mean working long hours at high intensity, only exceptional performance will constitute a passing grade. If you think you want to be part of the new Twitter, click on the link below. Anyone who has not done it by 5pm. Tomorrow will receive three months severance, he is trying to get a third of the people to do 100% of the work. Twitter is reportedly losing so many daily users that the new number one social network in Australia on the Australian App Store is myGov. So that's pretty exciting. People love getting messages from the ATO. Hey, Claire, you run a well, you recently took over a major media organization. What did you do when you took over Mamma Mia did your Did you find half the workforce?Clare Stephens  17:17  I didn't send that email. And the reason I didn't send that email is because I think when you send an email with the subject line, a fork in the road, it scares people for one. And I know that as an individual, I will often see a scary email and then not open it for 48 hours. And I thought if I were one of his employees, then I would have seen that email gone or avoided it. The time I opened it, I would have been made redundant because I did. Man, that's such an odd email to send. Like, it's just he's asking people, I think the scary thing is that he said in it, that it's going to be extremely hard core and that people need to be working long hours at high intensity. So what point is anyone allowed to say, Hey, I'm stressed or I've been working for four days straight? And can I have a break then I'd say that because apparently they agreed to it in this email.Dan Ilic  18:17  This is a guy who essentially has been hiring people to go through slack and to go through Twitter to see where Twitter employees have been mouthing off against him. This is the free the Free Speech worry about you went bought a social network. And it's basically basically like yelling, I'm gonna get rid of everyone who disagrees with me and this is what he's been doing. It's so It's so wild.Georgie Carroll  18:37  It'd be that hard working for Twitter anyway, what do you actually do if you work? Words in the in the book, exceptional performance will constitute a passing grade. What one is this man from?Lewis Hobba  18:51  Like he's got he's gonnaDan Ilic  18:51  have to fire himself Georgie that means like Nick's comedy festival like you would get fired if chortle didn't give you five stars.Georgie Carroll  19:00  Okay, even read that. So yeah, it's just absolute horrible, horrible man. I've managed to avoid knowing anything about him until doing this podcast I heard but a little bit. I do not need to be less relevant to me than Santa Claus.Dan Ilic  19:18  Can I say to everyone listening when I sent GA Dima asked him to do the show GA replied saying I don't actually read the news. I don't know whatGeorgie Carroll  19:29  I said and it makes me feel like a useless person. Georgie wantedDan Ilic  19:33  to know what streaming service the news was on so she could catch upClare Stephen  19:38  he's an interesting guy. He's trying to save the world. I don't know but the Twitter thing is really has really got me off side. Yeah,Lewis Hobba  19:44  I think I feel like there was a time where I was like, You know what, this is a flawed individual trying to do the best for the world. And I no longer believe that I now I now think this is a complete idiot who has no idea what he's doing. And he's just Mr. Magoo falling from dumping to dumping 1000 Tesla, Scott He called in Australia this week that killing people on the roads. He promised to get to Mars 10 years ago. He's nowhere near it. Nothing he does works. He's an absolute buffoon. He's overconfident. He says he's gonna do stuff. He signs himself up to it. He fucks it up. And then it this guy is an absolute 14 year old fuckwit. And I do not think he is doing anything good for the world. I think he should go and be an ambassador to Qatar. He is He is just, he's he socks. I also tried to talk to him once its Splendor in the Grass and his security blocked me. So I also have a personal vendetta. He was in splendor. Wow, that's awesome when he was when he was bringing that big battery to Adelaide. And, and he was hanging out at spender. And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna go and chat to Elon Musk. And so I walked over, and his security was like, No way. And I Okay, fair enough. And I backed away and then I went to just like take a photo to send like the work group chats were like, hey, Elon Musk's in the VIP bar. And as I held up my phone, their security held up this like, flashy thing. The phone stopped me from taking a photo. Anyway, I was like, oh, man, you know, one Elan Musk won't let anyone talk to him. And I was there with Dylan old car at the time until an old gods like watch this. A deal at all caught went over. And of course security was like, get on in there Dylan. And the deal on a halo masters had the best job ever. You just gotta you fucking future straight of the year, I get it. A three time Australian Wimbledon winner. That's all it takes.Dan Ilic  21:29  Now, before we get to a third fee. Did you guys see that Alba met with President Z on the sidelines of the G 20. We don't know exactly what happened inside that meeting.Georgie Carroll  21:37  But that the Italian one.Dan Ilic  21:40  President G is is the President of China. The Italian one is Anthony Albanese, who also happens to be Australian. So it's pretty confusing. It's very confusing there. Now, we don't know what happened inside that meeting. But it seems that there's been a bit of a dramatic reset between relations between Australia and China, which is pretty remarkable as we heard from Albanese, his post meeting conference. Thank you, everyone. Yes, thank you. Okay, ready, on want to thank President sheet for a productive conversation? Sure, Australia and China have our differences. China has a problem with disappearing protesters. We know exactly where ours are under very strict bowel conditions. China is increasing coal use. We are far more into gas. China's indigenous populations face imprisonment, relocation, theft of their land, reeducation, discrimination, forced labor, and organ harvesting. We don't do the organ harvesting part. But despite our differences, there's something China and Australia can agree. The best way to support work is to help rich people get richer was Robert infrastruc. Thank you. No questions. What about the questions? Oh, look, there's another similarity. I forgot about repressing press freedoms and I forget that we're becoming more and more like you every day. Looks like it's gonna be quite positive. Well done. Well done. Big thanks to Mammoth dominant claw on Discord who wrote that joke? That's one of the perks of being a Patreon member. You get to access the discord and write jokes for the show for free. Well, actually, you pay to write jokes. It's amazing. We like the Elon Musk here so it's a very good system. It's a very good system. This week's third the here's another thing you can remove from the list of things that are Dan Andrews fault, not being able to buy a tampon yes in the latest bid to bolster their already huge lead over the Liberal Party of Victoria. The Labour Party is offering free pads and tampons. If they win the Victorian State election. It's a pretty good policy that's going to leave the Liberal Party wondering how to stop the bleeding of their supporter base. Labour would like to see 1500 pad and tampon dispensing machines installed up to 700 sites including public hospitals, courts, tapes, libraries and train stations. But not when I found some tweets that didn't actually agree with this. This one comes from interest. Celt, have you tested all the tampons available in Australia before issuing those for free? Well, Susan, that's not how you that's not how templates work. You can't really test them all before issuing them doesn't quite work like that. Dan's a busy guy probably hasn't tested it. Then there's this one here. Are they gonna be for all the different genders please, please clarify who they are for? That one comes from someone called jetski bandit. Jetski. Band needs to know or therefore.Lewis Hobba  24:35  And then his big job at Sydney Harbour for White Ribbon Day was cancelled.Dan Ilic  24:40  That's right. He's looking for the next gig. Then there's this one here from karma kangaroo which says will you make toilet paper free Dan toilet paper is a necessity and then thank Liz who chimed in saying that toilet paper is free of public toilets. Wow, you one are really I thought that was good.Georgie Carroll  24:57  As well as not know is that once a month If you were to wait and poo uncontrollably for the whole week, maybe we should get free toilet paper. That's not Yeah, you can't leave the house you'd have to live in your little hot.Dan Ilic  25:12  If you didn't come a kangaroo doesn't worry. They just put all their stuff in a pouch. We've got a free menstrual cup wherever they go.Georgie Carroll  25:19  When does it come in the election? Because I reckon I've only got about three eggs left. Why am I bothered? I've got three good eggs and I'm not in Melbourne until March. So what's goingDan Ilic  25:31  to ship them to Dan Andrews. Then there's finally this bit of insight from a counselor counselor Steve Christo. Right. Free tampons. What's next free penis and extensions.Georgie Carroll  25:41  Well, I have been extending penises in Melbourne bathrooms for free for quite a whileClare Stephens  25:57  somebody who doesn't understand how taxpayer dollars work, he doesn't understand how government works. I say fine. You can have your free penis extensions. I'm all good for that. But I love that men got so upset about this and they're like but but what's in it for me? Like can you can you take some of the pads and tampons? I don't know what you'll do with them that you may take them if you wish.Georgie Carroll  26:22  Well, so many things on their armpits.Clare Stephen  26:26  There you go. Thank you for that. I'm going to be the worst type of person like on the person that people will fear because I if they become free, I will never buy one again. Every time I go to a public toilet. I will get a huge thing of tampons a huge thing of pads and I will stockpile them in my home.Dan Ilic  26:44  Maybe they will kind of mitigate that by putting a picture of Dan Andrews on the wrapper, you know instead of trivia that might that might prevent you from know that notGeorgie Carroll  26:51  all tampons are created equal though Claire, like Lucy, these are not going to be quality tampons. It's going to beDan Ilic  26:58  is it going to be Victorian government approved tampons?Lewis Hobba  27:01  There'll be single ply there'll be a bit dampClare Stephen  27:04  Georgie you know when you go overseas, you go to like the US and they've got the applicator ones but with the cardboard. They'll be like that. That yeah, like the ones whereGeorgie Carroll  27:13  they used to come with a belt. Do you remember them ones that you said no, you're too young for this. But they used to wear a belt and they had a loop on the front and a little loop on the back to tie around your waist. That's what they're gonna be like.Dan Ilic  27:26  That soundsGeorgie Carroll  27:27  very Melbourne, Melbourne love a bit of retro. Very hipster.Dan Ilic  27:33  When we come back what Agios bored makeup has to do with saving the planet, you're listeningUnknown Speaker  27:37  to a rational theory.Dan Ilic  27:41  And this is the part of the podcast where we just talk about how wonderful our sponsor is, which is Australian Ethical Investments, big thank you to them. Not only do they have discerning tastes when it comes to sponsoring comedy podcasts like ours, they also have discerning tastes where they put their money or rather, your money if you invest with them. When it comes to investments, they don't do things like tobacco, weapons, big climate pollutants, human trafficking, they stay away from all of that bad stuff. And they only invest in the good stuff. So you can look your kids in the eye and tell them that because you put your money in strain ethical, you basically made the world a little bit less worse. Yeah, that's that's the idea. We're, you know, we're making the world a little bit less worse or rather, a better world. You know, that's another way to put it short, you know, glass half full if you want a better world, glass, half empty, a little less worse. It's up to you. So big thank you to Australian ethical, find out more go to Australian ethical.com.au. Okay, back to the pod. And we're back this week, the long running battle for the control of AGL has turned to page followers of climate news will remember earlier this year, when Mike cannon Brooks became a majority shareholder in the company and we just 11% of ownership has demanded some changes in leadership. And so a battle for the future of the energy giant ensued, and thus, the future of the largest greenhouse gas emitter in the country is now heading down a different direction while someone who knows a little bit about what went down at AGL over the last few months is friend of the show. Brynn O'Brien from the Australasian center for corporate responsibility. Brian, welcome back to rational fear.Brynn O'Brien  29:25  Great to be here. What a week.Dan Ilic  29:27  Oh my god, what a week for you and what a week for people who work in this climate space. Tell us what what happened with this AGL board reshuffle and why does it matter?Brynn O'Brien  29:37  So AGL went to the AGM the current board which is the kind of backwards thinking part of the board or that's probably unfair, but I'll simplify like that. They went to the board with five directors right and they said well, you know, four of them are up for election. One of them doesn't need to be elected. He's he continues on but for More of them are up for election. And there are 10 board seats at this company. And they didn't, they just didn't put anyone up. So Mike cannon Brooks and his team at Brock ventures saw an opportunity they tried to take over the company a few months ago, they tried twice, the company rejected their takeover bids. And so they put up four directors, which takes us tonight, and then the maximum is 10. And the current board or the pre existing board, sort of they accepted one of them, they said, Okay, there's this one dude, Mark Tweedale, who worked for Tesla with there's an Elan theme here that I'm not going to take his back into, because that would be bad, but that they accepted him. And then the other three directors including Carrie shot, Dr. Kerry shot, who's you know, very well known energy market expert, head of the regulator, etc. They put these other three directors up as well. And Patricia McKenzie, who's the Chair of AGL said not, their experience isn't relevant to us, we're just going to go to a vote with these, you know, five directors that we think are good, and this one other director, and shareholders basically just said, No luck off, we're going to get the other three up to so now. So all of the directors that might kind of Brooks proposed, and they're all independent. So, you know, they're, they're not there to kind of do his bidding, but they are on the record saying that they think the company can transition more rapidly, they all got elected. So the balance of power, if you look at the nine members of that board, now, five of them have really serious energy transition and renewables experience.Dan Ilic  31:48  That's so incredible, like a few months ago, grok was trying to buy the whole company and then just kind of couldn't, couldn't get past that 11% mark, and then a few months later, all of a sudden owns the company without actually having to, you know, invest all that money. That's such a great own goal by IGN.Lewis Hobba  32:04  Elon Musk must be sitting there going, Oh, fuck, there was a better way.Dan Ilic  32:11  When will we see like exponential change in the way AGL operate?Brynn O'Brien  32:15  Well, look, I think there's, you know, we've got corporations or in Australia, that kind of governs the way that directors have to do their jobs. So now that these four people nominated by Mike and ngrok have been elected, what they need to do is, like, really get their heads into the game. So they need to go and look at all of the company's accounts and books and really look at those opportunities for rapid transition. So I expect they'll there'll be in there doing it, it's kind of awkward, because, you know, the chair and the other directors sort of said, Oh, you don't have anything to offer this board. So there's some interesting boardroom dynamics there. But look, I expect that they'll all get on with the job, they'll just have a look. AGL, just to kind of remind people is 8% of Australia's national emissions, so about 90 million tons of carbon dioxide per year. So it's really, really massive, and just this, you know, I like hats off to the grok team really like that it was a bold thing that they did, there's no script for this, no one's ever done it before. And they had to wear the kind of very real possibility of humiliating defeat, and they and they nailed it. So it's, yeah, super exciting that the new board or the like the full board, as of today has a massive job ahead. And they still have to appoint a CEO. So they've got an interim CEO, who's a bloke who's been with the company for a while, but you know that they have to appoint a new CEO or or appoint him permanently into the role. And I've just got so much working.Dan Ilic  33:42  And to give you a bit of history, like AGL has been the biggest polluter in Australia for such a long time. But they did have a plan to rapidly transition to renewables in the mid teens, if you like. And that plan was headed up by an American CEO who was running the company at the time. And and then when I announced that plan, Josh Frydenberg, who was the energy minister at the time, said, Oh, no, no, no, we can't have we can't have our biggest coal user no longer use coal, that wouldn't be good for our Liberal Party donors. He then systematically went and bullied all of the board members to encourage them to sack the CEO, and the CEO got bullied out of AGL quit. And then they installed their own friendly CEO to the coal companies. And coal got entrenched for until where we are now this is where we are at the moment. It's, it's so bizarre that the previous coalition is such against this transition, that that they did that in the first place where weBrynn O'Brien  34:39  are right now, what we're hearing from the company from staff in the company. So this is a massive company. They've got heaps of staff, many of whom want, you know, want to be part of the industry of the future. What we're hearing now and what we heard over the last couple of days is that this is a big relief, that there is a renewal within the company and Today's a real excitement about the transition ahead. And that must be a huge, huge burden lifted from the clever people that work there who want to do the right thing and be part of the transition.Dan Ilic  35:11  Brian, do they want to sponsor a podcast? I know.Brynn O'Brien  35:17  I think you know, you might have to shake a tree down.Lewis Hobba  35:21  I was gonna say really quick bread. I am an ATO customer. I've been meaning to leave for like two years because we'd every time we do this podcast, I leave go like, Fuck, I'm a monster. And I'm an idiot. Does this give me an excuse to not have to make the change?Brynn O'Brien  35:36  Ah, I'm gonna say yes. You know, the only thing worse than being an AGL customer is being an AGL. shareholder.Dan Ilic  35:45  I'm, I'm an ideal shareholder, and I bought shares. So I could vote so.Brynn O'Brien  35:51  Well, look, I've held AGL for a few years. But no, the the the I think for AGL customers purely, you know, to delay the administrative burden of this. Just yeah, give it a year. And look, the company. I think they said they weren't going to put a new climate plan for a vote this time next year. Now they're saying they will. And my, my prediction is that with this new board and a dynamic, qualified CEO that they're trying to lock in place at the moment, will deliver a really exciting transition plan. And that's, you know, again, 8% of Australia's national emissions 90 million tonnes of co2 equivalent per year. It's such a big fry, and well done to everyone who's who's had aDan Ilic  36:38  had a crack. That's super exciting and big thanks to anyone who's good at it. AGL shares who voted over the last few weeks on whatever you got to vote on. We had done for rational fear. Thank you to everybody who's joined us for tonight. Brynn O'Brien, Georgia. Carol, Claire Stevens, let's get our plugs underway. Claire, what would you like to plug?Clare Stephens  36:57  Listen to my podcast canceled? If you don't want to think about anything serious for about 40 minutes. I think it's a really good listen to this podcast and you'll have some knowledge and feel very clever. And then you can listen to canceled and feel like you've learned nothing. So that's really, really good. Not true.Dan Ilic  37:18  You're a Mariah Carey this week.Lewis Hobba  37:22  Oh my God. Are you doing Mariah Carey this week?Clare Stephens  37:24  Yeah, we did Mariah, but we just it's but I mean, it's so hard because she's she's flawless. She's iconic. So it was so hard to find any you know any crimes for her becauseDan Ilic  37:34  she and we should we should be clear for the audience that even though the podcast is called canceled, it's not about Sam Newman or Harvey Weinstein. Like you weren't? You weren't? You weren't find anything about that. That's not Georgia. Kara. What would you like to plug?Georgie Carroll  37:51  Well, when you listen to Claire's, come over to my podcast, which is a swab, which is just nightshift, Bama from hospital. So if you ever imagine what kind of utter nonsense we talk about at three in the morning when we're high on Haribo and no sleep, and we get really stupid. That is one that no funny so yeah, that's my podcast.Dan Ilic  38:15  Lewis. How about you got anything to plug?Lewis Hobba  38:18  I mean, nothing new. You could still go and watch this new television special. It is called Australia's best competition competition. It's really good. It's on I view. It's very funny. It's very silly. And go and watch it. And if you watched it, get a new eye view account and watch it again.Dan Ilic  38:38  You want to plug anything.Brynn O'Brien  38:39  I am plugging the First Nations clean energy network, which is first so it's First Nations clean energy.org.au It building capacity for renewable energy with controlling ownership in Aboriginal hands.Dan Ilic  38:53  Oh, that's awesome. I'm gonna plug. Question everything I'm on on Tuesday on Wednesday. If you're in Sydney on Tuesday, along and come to the taping and laugh at my jokes. Thanks very much. Big thanks to rode mics Australian ethical our Patreon supporters, Carmen cake Sonya and Patrick who joined up this week. The wonderful Rupert Degas who made that extraordinary promo at the start of the show for the Qatari FIFA sketch. Thank you very much. Also, Jacob round on the teppanyaki timeline who cut that sketch. So good. So talented, so lucky to have folks like that. Help us out with the show. If you want to help us out, hit us up on Patreon for slash irrational fear until next week, is always something to be scared of. So yeah, A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical G'day Fearmongers —.👑The Australian Monarchist League making demands of Netflix.🎥 Sylvester Stallone's new  Reality Project.🏆 Sean Penn giving Volodymyr Zelensky an Oscar®.🇺🇸 The US Mid-term elections.With fellow fearmongers Matt Bevan (Russia If You're Listening), Cam James (Finding Yeezus), Dan Ilic (me), Lewis Hobba (Australia's Best Competition, Competition) and Alison Piotrowski (Nine's US Correspondent).Thanks so much for listening!You're all legends — if you feel compelled.. please chip into the Patreon🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical  Lewis Hobba  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by Australian ethical. Oh,Matt Bevan  0:04  good morning. Not good morning. Good evening, Louis.Lewis Hobba  0:07  Well, depending on when you're listening to this podcast Good evening, good morning. Good day to you.Matt Bevan  0:14  Yeah, exactly. Well, we are going to be talking to Allison Petroski a little later on in the program and her time when we're talking to her. It's 4am So she's in Washington DC, so I don't know if she's had a good morning so far but we'll find out when we talk to her in half an hour.Lewis Hobba  0:29  Wow. Right we the midterm results flowing in Yeah, imagine cheat, we probably haven't got her up. She'd be awake anyway,Matt Bevan  0:34  she said, I just want to get to bed, Dan, but for you, I'll do it. Anyway, there's a big thanks to Australian ethical who help us do what we do here on irrational fear. Also some other folks who also help us out, including our Patreon supporters, including Sonya, exclamation mark, Patric, Kate, and Chad. Thank you for new Patreon supporters. Big thank you to you guys, Chip. Again, as you'll see, a little later on the show. I started to spend Patreon money on frivolous things. And it's that kind of money that keeps the show on the air. And a little later on, we'll talk a little bit about, you know, being nominated for a podcast award. Very excited.Lewis Hobba  1:12  Is that right? Yeah,Matt Bevan  1:13  surely you know this, Louis?Lewis Hobba  1:15  I found out because you sent me an email to invite me I was thrilled.Matt Bevan  1:18  I'm recording my end of irrational fear and getting Atlanta the urination. Sovereignty was never seated. We did a treaty. Let's stop the show.Unknown Speaker  1:26  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks can rub off. Fed COMM And section 40 of our rational view recommended listening by immature audiences.Matt Bevan  1:39  Tonight, the US midterm elections causes a rise in serious journalists saying the word gubernatorial and Vogue Sue's Drake for making a parody of a magazine cover despite no one suing vogue for making a parody of a fashion magazine. And Anthony Albanese is set to meet President Zhi Jing ping at the G 20. Summit Alamo will present the Chinese president with an album by gang of us and G will present albeau with an ultimatum fit for a capitalist lapdog of American imperialism, and a lovely pair of shoes made by a gang of detained dudes. It's the 11th of November and we're not afraid to go lower than Bitcoin. This is a rational fear.Hello, welcome to irrational fear. My name is Daniel H. I am the CO creator of the den Andrews Tuesday program. And this is the podcast that is nominated for one of the best comedy podcasts in Australia for 2022.Lewis Hobba  2:47  That's crazy.Matt Bevan  2:49  Yeah, because there are so many comedy podcasts. I don't know how we did it. Yeah, we'll talk aboutLewis Hobba  2:54  there. I don't mean to say that we're a shit podcast, but there are so many great podcasts.Matt Bevan  2:58  We'll talk a little bit more about it in a second. But I just want to introduce you to our fear mongers for tonight. They two very highly successful podcasters but they are also Newcastle's fourth and fifth favorite sons from the podcast, Russia. If you're listening, it's Matt Bevin and from the web series finding years this is cam James. Hey,Cam James  3:20  thanks for having us feeling very gubernatorial tonight. So thank you.Matt Bevan  3:23  Yeah, I'm very excited. First longtime listener first time Fira, I guess you know, terrified person. People on the show, what are you talking about? What is what is it? A few years? younger female.Lewis Hobba  3:38  You're supposed to create the fear, man. Yeah, you're not supposed to feel the fear youMatt Bevan  3:43  bring the fear? Yeah, bring it.Lewis Hobba  3:46  I didn't actually know you were both from Newcastle. Yeah, who's above you? I guess the three John's brothers. And Daniel Jones.Cam James  3:53  Are we counting Daniel? Daniel as a sibling to Maddie and Andrew.Matt Bevan  3:59  Three John's brothers could family is the other one. Generally ranks above us.Cam James  4:05  You met Doug McDougal. I don't know if he's from there. Reese Nicholson. Comedian. He's from Merrill. Yes, yes.Matt Bevan  4:11  So I've I've an anecdote about reasoning, because here we go. Do you want a quick anecdote about reasons. So reason Nicholson and I were in community theater together. And the community theater that we were at, would do a thing where they would, in order to give as many kids a turn as possible. They would set up two casts for each show, and then you sort of take turns performance. And Reese and I were both the lion in the Wizard of Oz, taking turns being the lone, but that meant that we had to share the same lion suit beautiful. And the show was done in like October, November of a very hot year. And so Reese and I both lost several kilos, doing that roll into the suit. And yeah, and you shared that suit around for quite some time, so yes, reason I share a bond that few other people shareCam James  5:05  thicker than thicker than a bond lionLewis Hobba  5:10  where the phrase lion's share comes from Newcastle theater.Matt Bevan  5:17  I met when, when the lion news broke last week, did you have an inkling or an urge to jump on the jog? Get in the line suit and negotiate on behalf of lions in Taronga Zoo. Yeah, I had a feeling that it was something there was something lion related happening andCam James  5:30  Soluna race just texted to check in.Matt Bevan  5:33  We don't need to text we just sort of communicate telepathically. But yeah, I'm sure I'm sure I could have sorted it out at least better than the Mosman police station. We are nominated for a podcast at the Australian Podcast Awards. And I wanted to you've mentioned that I just I just wanted to bring this up because it's something interesting that someone pointed out to me one of Shannon marinko, who is the co host of the Xero project sent me this link apparently sports bet has odds on forLewis Hobba  6:05  most of the awards to sports but have a podcast?Matt Bevan  6:08  Definitely should comedians need work. And that's all they employ at the moment.Lewis Hobba  6:13  Get the three John's brothers.Cam James  6:16  Look at this on the John's triplets.Matt Bevan  6:18  We're paying $2.20 And then probably the big the biggest podcast out of this with the one of the most listeners Tony and Ryan, who's got hundreds of 1000s of listeners. They're paying $7 I don't know how that I think that's all wrong. SurelyLewis Hobba  6:33  that if I was a gambling person I I'd quickly put a lot of money on. Yeah,Matt Bevan  6:40  I am actually thrilled that you guys are nominated for Best Comedy podcasts because you guys do quite a lot of climate content, obviously on the show and you could have decided to nominate yourselves for the climate. Matt Bevin I paid $200 of the petro money to apply for the climate award and we didn't even get oh well you're not in this category. I'm interested in what my odds are though, then other than that they're not they're not taking bets on the climate range maybe that's because the national broadcaster paid for your entry mat maybe maybe we'll we'll pay for your entry. Thank you for your eight cents Yeah, in fact, next week we got to tune other fellow nominees is funeral mongers Claire Stevens from Mamma Mia is canceled will be joining us and also the queen of Adelaide comedy Georgie Carroll from the swab podcast will be co hosting with us next week. Coming up a little later on the podcast will cross live to Washington DC with nines, US correspondent and friend of the show Alison Petroski to find out what's what happened in America today. Like Did anything happen in America today? Who knows? Who knows if anything happened in America today? But first, here's a message from this week's sponsor.Unknown Speaker  7:49  At Medibank private, we regret the recent data breach of our customers personal information. And while the hackers tried to convince us to pay their ransom as any of our customers trying to lower the cost of life saving medical treatment will tell you we never negotiate. That's why Medibank private is rebranding as of today will be known as Medibank public. So whether you have your first leaky bomb, like Phyllis Thompson of six fo in place Wangaratta or your third STI like gusta of Montague of 35 to brookstreet bonobo Queensland four to seven five whose blood type is so positive and mother's maiden name is Vaughn summer and has three points left on his license and is so heavily laden with debt that an extra $5,000 in fees won't make that much of a difference to him. TextFile number oh three one double 9381 You will get the same overpriced service without any more data breaches. Because it's too late. It's all out there now. Anyway. Medibank public, we feel better now that there's no more secrets.Matt Bevan  8:47  Always good to have a sponsor on the show this week. First fear. There's a lobby group in Australia that's calling for Australians to boycott Netflix. That lobby group is the Australian monarchist League. Yes, they are calling on all right thinking Australians to boycott Netflix until they correct the falsehoods and inaccuracies about the royal family in the TV show the crown. Apparently Netflix has been spreading falsehoods that the royal family is actually interesting. fear mongers, can we forgive Netflix for embellishing just a little bit here.Cam James  9:23  I think that they should the Monix league should just be grateful that anyone's talking about the Royals at all. Exactly. Did anyone else not give a shit about the Royals until this show? I've spent my entire life not caring now I'm so invested.Matt Bevan  9:40  This is the thing that's going to keep the Royals in power. This is the thing that's going to keep Australia in the Commonwealth. It's actually vital for the Royals to stay in this show because as long as people are wanting more seasons of the show, obviously they'll need to keep the monitor going.Lewis Hobba  9:56  If I was a real family, I'd be just be so happy that they'd made me hot.Cam James  10:01  So hot. So hot. So like,Lewis Hobba  10:04  I've watched the royal wedding or whatever, like, I mean, I've seen the news clips. There's no one hot family. They're all like weed inbred freaks. It's got. They've got super hot people playing them. I would be honored to have somebody that hot playing meMatt Bevan  10:21  love this line from YouTube comments. Pete Lola says, I thought the crown was about the moment of birth. Thank you.Cam James  10:28  I was watching the first season when it came out. And I just started thinking, oh my god, Princess Margaret was so beautiful. She's like, the most beautiful person in the world. And when I looked her up for rail, am I Oh?Lewis Hobba  10:43  Did the Monica have a thought on? Mary Harry, Gemma, that reality show? Yeah, I don't know if it's on Netflix. But it's must watch television. If anyone hasn't gotten around to it. As soon as you finish the crown pop over to marry Harry, they find a Prince Harry look alike. And then put him in a castle and get a bunch of women to come and they say that they're going to get to marry Prince Harry. And that's the whole show. And I think in my personal opinion, it deserves more awards than the crowd. When critics snubbed it.Cam James  11:14  It's some. It's like the bachelorette or something. The guide doesn't really look like Prince Harry. He just has ginger hair. So they only ever see him from about 300 meters away. So it's just like him scurrying from a helicopter to the castle. And the host is like there he is. And the girls like oh my god. The reasonMatt Bevan  11:33  I would boycott the crown is because of the things that they leave out rather than the things that they put in. I mean, they date just skated straight past the constitutional crisis of 1975 without a mention of you know, the palace letters and the interaction with John Korea and that kind of thing. They didn't mention that they've already gone well past its royal knockout. They didn't touch on the time that the Royals decided to delve into their own reality television show do they actually get like one of the Royal no no to perform in several royal it's a knockout several really Yeah, yeah. So I believe it was the late 80s and look I'm not an entire expert on this but I believe it's a great it's a knockout was kind of like you know, the show where they you know, they're running and there's a big pool of water and the people are trying to jump from you know, obstacle obstacle into area like Ninja Warrior. It's like clown ninja warrior. Yeah, like why they had several royal family members participating in this thing in an effort to make them seem more personableCam James  12:31  by having them on a reality Ninja Show. more personable andMatt Bevan  12:35  they didn't touch it. I just went straight past it into diner Yeah, there were there's a reason why they couldn't touch it right you know, it's an Darrell sermon still owns the rights to it. They couldn't they couldn't possibly do it. And if they were to do it, Darrell Summers would have to host it. They couldn't get someone to play Darryl so it's impossible.Lewis Hobba  12:53  They went right past when all the Royals put on blackface and danced on Hey, Gerald had the rights to that. I went to the Saudi Prince Harry was actually dressed as a Nazi and the rest of them are.Cam James  13:07  Adolf Hitler in the Jackson jive. I remember that. Gong memorandum andLewis Hobba  13:13  thankfully, they actually had a few knots a uniform since most of them ah, it was pretty. I had that in the closet to hand me down.Matt Bevan  13:22  I went to the anarchists moniker, or the anarchists monitor.Lewis Hobba  13:27  When I was a kid, I downloaded the monarchists cookbook. I don't know what it would be diaper but it was just scarred. It's justMatt Bevan  13:33  scones and sticky date that can blow apart your anus. No, stop it. Look, I don't know who is in the Australian monikers League, but I just want to give them all a wedgie. So I went to the website to find out a little bit more about them. And you know, the websites pretty good. And the merch page has some great merch, like for instance, you can buy a brief history of our constitutional development as a nation for $10. Isn't that isn't that great? Just a fantastic book $10 to get a brief history, you can also buy a portrait of the King. I bought two because there's only $5 Why would you pay for that? Oh, you know, you can ask for your local MP for one for free. Well, technically, they're giving good they're giving it to you for free. So you can get a free version, you just have to pay for shipping. So I use the Patreon money. And I will give itLewis Hobba  14:24  in you've got to stop telling people how you're spending it. Yeah, you're starting to sound like Bridget McKenzie.Cam James  14:30  Behind the curtain. Yeah,Matt Bevan  14:32  but if you become a patreon supporter, I will mail it to you. So you actually get it. That's great. That's so many this week. If you subscribe, you'll get a free portrait the King who knows if there's any one of you, maybe you'll get two portraits of the king. But the thing about the merch page that I really liked was that the heading said animal productsCam James  15:00  Okay, now I'm on board with the lakeLewis Hobba  15:04  I've got princely Papa.Unknown Speaker  15:08  rational fear the real shows Queen Elizabeth performing a Nazi salute his journey from the heart of the British Royal Family to Hitler's inner circle Duke ofUnknown Speaker  15:17  Sussex was called out when he was photographed wearing a Nazi uniform to a costume parties thatUnknown Speaker  15:22  we know is the royal family a racist family, sir, you're listening to a very rational fear.Matt Bevan  15:29  This week second fear Sylvester Stallone is making a reality TV show is about his family or as the Daily Mail put it in the headline. Sylvester Stallone 76 poses with his stunning daughters as they prepare to become the next Kardashians with their Paramount plus show. Wow, Cam your life's work has been circling around the oeuvre of Sylvester Stallone, is this enough for you to sign up to ParamountCam James  15:55  plus? No, unfortunately not.Lewis Hobba  15:58  Do you think they have the rights to calling it Sly and the Family StoneCam James  16:03  slime family Stallone,Matt Bevan  16:05  that's better than one I had. I had Rambo's drags race, butCam James  16:09  I've got because he's been going through marital issues at the moment. So I've got rocky on the rocks. I have the father and the Expendables for that's probably that's probably enough. Yeah.Matt Bevan  16:30  I also had sideling up to the stones and also Rocky 10 through 200. SoCam James  16:38  I'm fascinated his daughters have beautiful names. One of his daughters names is sistine Oh, wow,Lewis Hobba  16:45  thank you know how some people will name their child after where they work. You think he fucked in the chapel?Matt Bevan  16:53  That would be challenging.Lewis Hobba  16:58  If he's being honest, don't look. Watch me do myMatt Bevan  17:01  thing. Everyone's staring at the ceiling in that chapel. So I suppose.Cam James  17:06  Sure. No one's looking at no one's looking at dad.Matt Bevan  17:09  Instead of doing it as a Kardashians knockoff, rather more it's royal knockout style stuff. I would like to see Sylvester Stallone and his children attempting to, you know, getting beaten up by foam implements.Lewis Hobba  17:26  I don't think you can take another head. No, no. One more head knock. And that's it. Yeah, that'sMatt Bevan  17:32  that's probably the reason why they've gone with the Kardashians. The there's very few, you know, brain injuries involved in the Kardashian show from what I've seen,Lewis Hobba  17:42  but yeah, it's low on.Cam James  17:43  We all make fun of Sylvester Stallone. But we all forget that he's an Oscar winner. And he's written. You know, Oscar winning screenplays. A lot of screenplays directed a lot of fantastic films. This TV show could be amazing. I mean, he could win a low GI. I don't know. Anything's possible he could win a low GI with this.Matt Bevan  18:03  One. Is that one of the things in the EGOT you're trying to, you know, get.Cam James  18:11  Did you read The Hollywood Reporter profile on him this week? No. What did it say? It's really fantastic. He's talking about this show and this new series that he has coming out also on Paramount plus, called Tulsa King. At one point he says Everyone thinks I'm just some rich guy who lives a rich guy life, but I'm just a normal guy. In fact, I was sitting around with Denzel Washington the other day or both just talking about how we normal gods.Matt Bevan  18:37  That's what Lewis and I do when we hang out together. We're just normal. Normal 76 year old with a 20 year old daughter.Unknown Speaker  18:43  It's totally normal. irrational fear. You think I'm a loser? I'm a loser. I like being a loser. I made a profession out of being a loser. You're a loser.Matt Bevan  18:55  This week's third year, Ukraine has been invaded by a new force. Sean Penn Yes, in the hopes to boost morale of Ukrainian soldiers, Sean Penn met with Vladimir Zelensky and gave him one of his Oscar trophies. Among is what is the Lensky going to do with Sean Penn's Oscar trophy.Lewis Hobba  19:14  I just have to get this out of the way. I think this could be the turning point in the whole war. As we all know, the pen is mightier than the sword. Yeah,Matt Bevan  19:26  I must have a sandwich at it. I mean, my latest series of my podcast is all about Zelinsky and Putin and that kind of thing. And so I've been really digging right intoLewis Hobba  19:38  and mines all about Sean Penn. SoMatt Bevan  19:42  but, you know, there's a famous quote, of course from Zelinsky when people were asking him to leave the country to flee cave as the Russian army was approaching. He very famously said, I need weapons, not a right. But I've actually been digging deeper and deeper into Isn't that's the incorrect quote. The correct quote is I need weapons not a ride but also an Oscar trophy would be great. I need a copy of milk Mystic River to plays. Yeah.Cam James  20:13  I think other celebs should jump on the bandwagon and give out other awards. They've won, you know, absolutely lost her Buster awards. Maybe Lisa McCune could give away a few of her gold logo.Lewis Hobba  20:25  Dan, do you right now to support the people of Kyiv pledge to donate your Australian podcaster whyMatt Bevan  20:33  I would not only give, give them these two. But I'll give them the new one. If we get another one. Wow, that boost morale like that. I think we need to contact Lockheed Martin and ask whether they're, you know, long distance artillery launches, have an attachment for trophies. You know, we've said if they wanted to send some Putin's way, you know, teach them and miss it and teach them a lesson. There's only one trophy you need to send and that is Arias because they're really, they're gonna, they'll they'll get you. They'll get you. When we come back. We'll be talking to Allison Petroski live from Washington DC.Unknown Speaker  21:07  This is a rational view, rational fear.Matt Bevan  21:13  Louisa, I'm just pausing the podcast for just one second to let you know thatLewis Hobba  21:17  we're asked to do a different podcast.Matt Bevan  21:21  It's really good. That's why they are number one. That's why they're number one. I'm just letting you know that you have a TV show on. But because it is only one episode, you might not be able to financially look after yourself and your forthcoming child.Lewis Hobba  21:35  Dan, if I had a million television shows and one of them was survivor, I still wouldn't be able to deal with my money well enough to pay for this child.Matt Bevan  21:43  I've got some good news. We do have a sponsor for irrational fear. So I can help you pay for your child or we can help you pay for your child's with the great people at Australian ethical who are chipping in to help us pay for this podcast. Thank you, Australian ethical, these people have been running money since 1986. Running money. It sounds like running drugs, doesn't it?Lewis Hobba  22:02  Well, it was only six, there is a good chance that they made their first million from cocaine. But it'sMatt Bevan  22:06  unlikely because their names are Australian ethical. They spend their money putting it into good things, good things like health care, education, renewable energy, they stay away from things like cocaine, fossil fuels, gambling, tobacco, all that stuff disappears. And it's really it's really exciting. They align with our values and we align with their values.Lewis Hobba  22:29  That's amazing, because I am not with them. Currently, I've only just found out about this. I'm here finding out about this right now. But I do need to know this because I have recently been at the my super fun. I won't name it because I don't know if I'm allowed, but their trash. They've just increased they're invested in fossil fuels.Matt Bevan  22:43  Yeah, I think you and I, we are with the same super fund. And if you want to know who that super fund is just go check out my Twitter feed.Lewis Hobba  22:48  Yeah, just go and check out our previous work in the hospitality industry,Matt Bevan  22:52  or the super funds in Australia, the top 15 have been rapidly, divesting their, their fossil fuel stakes.Lewis Hobba  23:00  Well, I'm thrilled to hear about this, Dan. And I do hope that all of the other big organizations that are divesting in fossil fuels, consider investing in irrational.Matt Bevan  23:11  Thank you Australian ethical, super, super work, no pun intended. Pun intended to do that. And we'll get back to the podcast. And we're back. Joining us now is Alison Petroski from Washington DC and Channel Nine. Hello, Alison. Good morning. I know it's a no it's very early there.Alison Piotrowski  23:32  Yeah, I don't know if I thought it was evening. I realize it's 4am in the morning now. Good morning. Good evening, guys. I don't know what day it is what? But it's it's been an interesting 24 hours.Matt Bevan  23:43  Yeah, it's anything happened in America. We should be aware of anything going on there.Alison Piotrowski  23:48  It's it's been really quiet. Actually. I haven't seen it this quiet for such a long time.Matt Bevan  23:54  Now, the midterms that have happened over the last little bit last 24 hours. I don't know if you saw this clip. Allison has been going around the internet. There's not only kind of allegations of Russia interfering, but also allegations of Australians interfering in the US elections. Let me show you this.Unknown Speaker  24:11  We need to save America before we can save Australia. So this is I've come here to sacrifice three months of my life to support mega the mega candidates. I've been to Arizona and New Mexico and Florida. And for me, it's just important that in order to save Australia, I wanted to be here to make sure that that we get the right people over the lineMatt Bevan  24:35  that is just some guy called Greg Smith, who just happened to get in front of the camera. Some dude in America, justCam James  24:42  Greg Smith.Matt Bevan  24:46  Riggs is on the ground. Allison, have you managed to get an interview with Greg Smith?Alison Piotrowski  24:50  Well, this is actually quite funny because I put that little bit that you played I put that in a package that we ran on our news bulletin last night and I actually went on a deep dive searching for great Excuse me, and I mean any Ozy as you know, well know that it is impossible to find something but what I found many people call Greg Smith, I can't find this particular one. But Greg Smith, if you're listening Nine News would love to have a chat. Walk us through your journey for the last three months. I'm fascinated. ThisMatt Bevan  25:19  sounds like the plot of a Comedy Mystery podcast.Alison Piotrowski  25:25  He realizes right that that he's not an American, and that he can't vote and that I'm just fascinated. Does he not have a job? Does he not have a family? Like, how would you paid for this tree? LookLewis Hobba  25:39  at that guy. Question. Allison. That guy doesn't have he has no one who loves him.Matt Bevan  25:47  He's also had some mixed results as well. I mean, he doesn't seem to have delivered in Arizona. New Mexico doesn't seem to be going that well, for Republicans. I mean, seems to it seems like he hit his stride when he got to Florida and really delivered for for Magga. When he got there. Yeah, that they've done well, yeah.Alison Piotrowski  26:02  It has been pretty decisive moment for the for the Magga candidates in that they've completely flopped in these midterms. It has been so interesting. And what will be interesting is when we wake up tomorrow, what the Republican party going to do, because we saw Ron DeSantis, who is quite probably their strongest candidate to be on the 2024 ticket. He had a resounding victory as the governor of Florida today, and I think it will, he will turn around to the party and say I am the man to lead you to the next election, not Donald Trump, and particularly not after Donald Trump's carry on today where he was suggesting that there were issues with certain counties, ballots, there were certain there were certain technical issues in in some counties in Pennsylvania and Arizona, but they were really minor and he and carry like absolutely tried to weaponize them and try and throw a cloud over the whole midterm election. And I feel like perhaps Today America finally saw through it, it felt like they really did vote for their candidates. And they weren't paying any attention to some of the conspiracy theories that had been floated around this country like a virus I guess for the last two years.Matt Bevan  27:13  You mentioned Kerry Lake, I saw this clip of her being asked if she would run for president, obviously yesterday before she's now lost her her bid. And she's got a she had a pretty threatening stance about the media.Unknown Speaker  27:26  If Donald Trump Announces as expected to be president and you win the governorship of Arizona, you're likely to be talked about as a VP. Candidate. Will you? Do you plan to serve your entire term in Arizona? Are you open to being the VP?Unknown Speaker  27:39  Are you new covering this race? Because we've talked about this before? We've talked about this? I've answered his questions. I am going to not only be the governor of Arizona for four years, I'm going to do two terms. I'm going to be your worst freaking nightmare for eight years, and we will reform the media as well. We're going to make you guys into journalists again. So get ready. It's gonna be a fun eight years. I can't wait. Hey, guys,Matt Bevan  28:03  you're gonna be turned into a journalist again, Alison. But the good news is she didn't get back in so you can just go back to whatever you're doing before. She even planned aroundAlison Piotrowski  28:12  the best body. She was a journalist for a good 27 years. I mean, well, I lose. I use that term loosely. She She hosted the local Fox News in Phoenix, Arizona for 27 years. So she was in the media. She was the face of Fox News. And she was a face for those local people who believe that she was always telling them the truth. So the carry like Journey is so fascinating how she's managed to absolutely flip this and really target the media. But I guess she's eating a word right now because it does not look like she's going to walk away with that gubernatorial ship, as they call it. I find fascinating. But just call it the run for governor.Matt Bevan  28:50  Were you excited to say the word gubernatorial Allison like I you know, for me, that's such a great word. gubernatorial.Alison Piotrowski  28:57  I love the word but I've actually made sure I've not put it in my coverage because what is the girl talking about? And they would?Lewis Hobba  29:09  Allison, there was one quote that I was wondering if you'd seen an mme show, I imagine you would have been across this one, which was Donald Trump giving his thoughts on the Republican sort of votes today. Word for word. He was like, if they win, I should get the credit. If they lose, it's not my fault.Alison Piotrowski  29:28  Don't you think we should all just be leaving out lastCam James  29:32  Friday, great motto.Lewis Hobba  29:35  There are things about him that I don't miss. And there are every now and again, they're things I'm like, Oh, he's good. He's really good.Matt Bevan  29:41  That's what Lewis says to ITA after looking at the iView ratings for Australia's biggest competition competition. I'm bit disappointed actually in that because usually it's if they win, it's because of me if they don't, it's because they didn't listen to me is generally the way that he describes it, but I'm staggered that Ron DeSantis has gone so well and that his You know, his backers have gone so well, throughout Florida given Donald Trump viciously took him down by calling him Ronda sanctimonious. I mean, how can you come back for a burn like that?Lewis Hobba  30:11  Not as good. Not as many as you like, just go with more on, you know, just keep it simple.Matt Bevan  30:16  Allison, can you tell us who is the biggest loser of this midterm election? Do you think?Alison Piotrowski  30:21  I think Donald Trump and I think because he got so excited yesterday, and he announced his announcement, he announced that he was going to be announcing on November 15 at Mar a Lago we all know that means he's going to throw his hat into the ring for the presidency. He's backed himself into a corner now. And I think had he held off and waited 24 hours, he wouldn't have been putting that date out there. I think he probably would have been going back having a bit of a think about it and maybe pushing it a year down the track. So I think he shot himself in the foot. And that makes him the biggest loser. And the biggest winner, who and the biggest one, I think Ron DeSantis. I think, truly he is shaping up to be the man that will be leading the Republican ticket in 2024. And all jokes aside, I saw him in Florida as I was covering hurricane Ian last month. And he did show that he could lead I mean, he really was embraced by the people. He invited Joe Biden down. They work together, he showed that he wasn't going to be a baby like Donald Trump was, you know, he did the bipartisan thing. And He showed that he could do that. That was the first step today, he's had a resounding win for governorship. And that is normally a pretty big tick. When you progress in progressing forward to throwing your hand up for the presidency. I daresay we will see him announced that he's running within the next two to three months.Cam James  31:37  And can I ask do we know who would win in it's a knockout?Alison Piotrowski  31:44  Carry like man.Matt Bevan  31:49  I was Alison, what do you make of the results for the Democrats, though, which Democrats have done well, in which Democrats have underperformed a little bit have perhaps been a little bit disappointing in not quite making it across the line?Alison Piotrowski  32:03  For the last three days? All I've been saying is Oh, potential red wave potential red wave. So the fact that we haven't seen that is a huge windfall Democrats, even though they will probably still lose the house, which normally you would say is a big loss. Originally, we were talking about 60 seats, then it was coming down to 20 seats. Now, they can't even quite get five seats yet. They'll probably do it in the next couple of days. I can't think of a particular I'm trying to think Oh, Gretchen Whitmer has been pretty outstanding. She had a pretty decisive victory over tutor vixen. Tutor, Dixon. Guys, I've been up for 24 hours. I'm taking my makeup off. Me Up.Lewis Hobba  32:46  There is no group of people with more insane names in American politics.Alison Piotrowski  32:50  And you're like, tell me the best Democrat. I can't remember my own name right now.Matt Bevan  32:56  Listen, we will let you get to bed. Thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it. All right. Well, that is it for rational fear. The thank you to all of our Patreon supporters, including sheepy who asked Matt Bevin a question I'd love it if tonight we'll get an update from Matt Bevin as to how the plans for his Trevi che centrifuge are going. And this is of course referencing a tweet of yours, Matt from last month where you said you're going to crowdfund a centrifuge so bigger can chuck stuff into the sun, which is I think playing off playing off an idea that people are going to launch missiles in space spacecraft into space with NASA using centrifuge how your plans going Yeah, look, it's tricky Dan, because I do like to announce big plans on on Twitter. One of my big plans was to because the feed in tariff is so dreadful of solar panels that you're getting at the moment I was intending to set my set up my own Aluminium Smelter in my backyard use the electricity for that make my own aluminium you then I was going to use the profits from that to make this giant central flute centrifuge that can fling things into space. So yeah, that's that's the update on that on that situation. Waiting for approval for the Aluminium Smelter and waiting for the shipment. Evaluated sanctions with Russia getting in the way of all these things. It's massive problem so that's okay. We're setting a lot of I understand in Newcastle all you got to do is sponsor the Newcastle Knights and you get stuff approved pretty quick. That's true.Cam James  34:29  Good. Yeah. Change the stadium name to centrifuge.Lewis Hobba  34:35  Like the whole stadium,Matt Bevan  34:36  yeah. Let's get our plugs underway. Matt Bevin, what would you like to plug? Oh, thank you, Dan. I would very much like to plug the new series of podcast. If you're listening into a call. It's called Russia if you're listening and we are looking at the war between Ukraine and Russia and looking into why it happened. Now. The effects But it's having on all of us. And we're trying to figure out some of the different ways that it could potentially end. I'm really happy with the series and I hope that Yeah, well, it's launching its launch this week. So we'll see whether people like it or not just sunlight comedy listening. Yeah, I'm Cam James, would you like to plug?Cam James  35:19  Will I do very similar journalism to Matt. I have a new web series. That's an investigative comedy series called Finding Yeess. I've found a bizarre video game on the Internet called Kanye quest. No one knows the identity of the creator of this game. But urban legend is that it was created by a New Age religion, based out of California, who were using the video game to recruit new members. So myself and Alexei teleoperator spent about a year and a half investigating this video game and Colt.Matt Bevan  35:56  It is so good. That is properly so funny and so enjoyable. I wish there was like another 10 episodes. Thank you cam, you made something so beautiful.Cam James  36:04  Oh, thanks, Dan. Thanks so much. I hope people likeLewis Hobba  36:07  once you've watched finding Yeezus you should also go back and listen to actually a podcast. It's very similar to that. It's a it is about a war between America and Russia. In a way. It is about Rocky. Ivan Drago, yes, the greatest war ever fought.Cam James  36:25  Finding Drago, we'd go deep on that stuff. We I'm a big sci fi fan. I'm looking forward to signing up for Paramount plus for a month to watch the show. And then getting rid of itLewis Hobba  36:36  three more times. They'll give you a free subscription.Matt Bevan  36:40  I'm a big fan of the alabaster wars and I wish there was a was a podcast series on that.Cam James  36:44  Me too. Louis, you should plug your show. Oh, yeah.Lewis Hobba  36:48  Oh, yeah. I think I plugged it. I played it last week. But if you've never listened this podcast before, and you're just joining us. Yes, I have a television show. It's upstairs a television special. It's called Australia's best competition competition with my friend and radio co host Michael hing where we enter a bunch of weed competitions all around the country to find Australia's best it's really fun.Cam James  37:08  I watched it and it was fucking great. It was I loved it so good, man.Lewis Hobba  37:12  Thank you appreciate that.Matt Bevan  37:13  Very very Oh,Lewis Hobba  37:16  he nearly got this veryMatt Bevan  37:16  very good. What he was gonna say very fair reward just cut out we'll never knowCam James  37:30  we'll never know how Dan fieldsMatt Bevan  37:32  Wow, you can actually hear meLewis Hobba  37:34  oh we just we didn't get we didn't quite get to the adjective we knew was very very simple Alright, Louis, you're very, very time for that isCam James  37:56  a that's a cliffhanger. That's really good storytelling.Lewis Hobba  38:01  You'll have to subscribe to Russia for his Patreon to find out what Dan thinks that my television special. It's behind the paywall. His thoughts are too big thank you to always say big thank you to rode bikes, to our guests Matt Bevin to Cameron James, to Jacob brown on the Tepanyaki timeline. And don't forget there's always something to be scared of good nights.Matt Bevan  38:25  Did you think Australian as I go, Oh, fuckLewis Hobba  38:28  I didn't sayMatt Bevan  38:33  thank you. It was Friday if they go. Thank you Redbox. And Lewis did such a great job and can I say your TV show was very much like a TV show. See you next week. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical On the podcast this week we talk aboutAUSTRAC investigating Bet365 and BetFair.The Lions trying to escape Sydney's Toronga Zoo.Elon Musk's Twitter purchase.B-52's in Darwin.And whether or not Australia will be welcomed back at the COP27 table.Your fearmongers this week are Osman Faruqi (Nine) Scott Mitchel (7am) Linh Do (CANA), Dan Ilic + Lewis Hobba🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical  Dan Ilic  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by Australian ethical. Good evening, Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:05  Hello Daniel. How are you?Dan Ilic  0:07  I'm great. It's great to be in Melbourne. It's stupid old studios.Lewis Hobba  0:10  So beautiful. I'm really impressed with the stupid old studios. Obviously they do so much great work. And I know we both donated to the crowdfunding a little whileDan Ilic  0:20  ago. We night I forgot that. Why am I paying for this booking?Lewis Hobba  0:25  That microphone you're using? That's the memorial mine. Yeah,Dan Ilic  0:30  I actually met someone Off the Telly today. It was a bit taken aback. I'm like, Oh, we're famous person.Lewis Hobba  0:35  What do you mean? Oh, at the studio?Dan Ilic  0:36  Yeah. The people that come from,Lewis Hobba  0:38  we're just excited in general of having met someone from television, like, bumped into the cash cow on the street and you were like,Dan Ilic  0:44  speaking of cash, big thank you to Australian ethical for helping out the podcast for another few weeks. And big thank you to Andrew Carr and Chad Thompson, who signed up on the Patreon you'd not only get an ad free feed, you get access to the discord. And you can write jokes for the show if you want. That's good. You get early access to the big one on one interviews we have you also get access to early works in progress of sketches, video sketches, and rare recordings of live shows that are too defamatory to put out in public.Lewis Hobba  1:12  I love that your Patreon model is a lot like Elon Musk's plan to charge people for their blue check. It's like hey, if you give us money, you can also write for it.Dan Ilic  1:21  And we're gonna be speaking a lot about Elon Musk. In just a second. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on Wurundjeri lands of the Kulin nation, sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Simon Chilvers  1:31  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of a rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:44  Tonight lions escaped from a Sydney zoo but returned to their cages when they realized the city's nightlife is dead. And after tourism Victoria stepped up to sponsor the national netball team Gina Reinhardt insists on trying out for a position called own goal attack. And Dominic Perret J has hired Scott Morrison's election strategist hoping he'll curry favor with the people of New South Wales. It's the fourth of November and we're just days away from the final episode of the USA this is a rational fear.Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host former head of security at Taronga Zoo Dan Ilic. And this is the podcast that takes the scariest news and shoots it with a tranquilizer gun. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. They are the executive producer of the number one news podcast in Australia that doesn't do jokes. They are the they are also the former housemate of Louis harbor. Scott Micho.Scott Mitchell  2:44  Thank you so much.Dan Ilic  2:45  Scott. What is the one thing you know about Louis Harbor that nobody else knows?Scott Mitchell  2:50  Oh, my God, so many Friday, I'dLewis Hobba  2:52  be like we should I don't think we need to do this.Scott Mitchell  2:54  I don't think we need to do this. So many Dan,Lewis Hobba  2:57  but also I know, Scott would be very afraid of reprisals.Dan Ilic  3:05  And the culture editor for nine and host of the drop podcasts and current flatmate of Scott Mitchell Osman for okay Daniel, how you doing? Well, I was What is one thing about Scott Mitchell that nobody else knows.Osman Faruqi  3:17  I'm not terrified of reprisals because I'm perfect as a housemate.Dan Ilic  3:21  It's pretty good to me.Osman Faruqi  3:22  No, I mean, there's nothing done they've done the things like I said it's got a lovely things. He's a wonderful housemate and a wonderful cook. You know, thisDan Ilic  3:27  is such born with me, call Santa lands we need him and he's already dusting off his Loki suit after his one episode of television aired last week. It's former flatmate of Scott Mitchell Louis harbor.Lewis Hobba  3:43  Yes, thank you, Dan. It it's true. The logos are calling the actors are calling. I assume the international Emmys are calling. I'm preparing several suits.Dan Ilic  3:55  Any lawsuits loose?Lewis Hobba  3:57  None yet. I mean, once people get into the Patreon I'm sure they'll be able to find some stuff in the old irrational fear episode.Dan Ilic  4:04  Coming up later, Australia is returning to the climate talks table as a fully fledged adult we're gonna be talking with lindo to see if the world will have us back. but first here's a message from this week's sponsor.Unknown Speaker  4:19  Oh no generic tradie What's that bloke man sports bet and bet 365 are being audited by austrac Oh, what are the odds are that pretty good according to austracJess Perkins  4:29  the Australian transaction reports and Analysis Center is bringing financial auditing to the palm of your hand stream every raid Live Trace every transaction be dockside for every judicial ruling. And you and your mates can bend together with a sane investigation multi.Unknown Speaker  4:51  I'll put a pineapple on aiding and abetting money laundering. Yeah, and I'll put a dame Nellie Melba on funding terrorism a lobster on them getting off scot free but didn't make it a tongueJess Perkins  5:01  austrac bit put good pants or badDan Ilic  5:07  I should mention gamble responsibly there gamble responsibly. This week's first fear move over Melbourne there was only one animal based news story that stopped the nation for a short period on Wednesday. All eyes were on Taronga Zoo as the lions had escaped, presumably because like all of us, they'd had Jack have locked down. But they went back to their cages shortly after they after they when they realized they all forgot their masks. Taronga Zoo found out that they had basically what they called an integrity issue with the containment fence oz. What was the integrity issue with the fence?Osman Faruqi  5:40  Absolutely. My favorite part of this story was when Taronga Zoo was asked to explain at a press conference why they had let the lions out. And I think it's an example of how everyone even zookeepers is so media trained and terrified of saying a single thing wrong. When they're asked what what happened here. They said there was an integrity issue with the fence. Maybe some sort of iconic style investigation. AndScott Mitchell  6:06  I think there's like a rule in New South Wales that every press conference to get there eventually.Osman Faruqi  6:12  Eventually, when they were pressed, it was basically like there was a hole in the face. Yeah. Why don't just say that. This No,Dan Ilic  6:16  no, I liked the late putting it like that. It's like they were like, nefarious monkeys that were like run. Yeah, running security. And the like. So the lions gave them a banana. They open up and say, yeah, that's how it works. Yeah.Osman Faruqi  6:31  The other bit of story that I think was really, the media did, I think on one hand, an excellent job of covering this because even here in Melbourne, the ABC was just an effect all the channels which was broadcasting basically live helicopter footage of Mosman for like four to five hours. And it was a great day in Sydney and Sydney looked absolutely gorgeous. But there was so many fascinating parts of the story. So I did not know that Taronga Zoo has what they call a roar and snore program where families can sleep over at the zoo.Dan Ilic  7:00  Yeah. And at the time, they were like 20 kids doing this produce exactly. Next to the lion rightOsman Faruqi  7:05  next to lions. And one of the one of the dads says they will woken up and the zookeepers are just yelling code one code. That's like, I don't know what that made me.Dan Ilic  7:13  Yeah. I mean, obviously, obviously, you don't know what it means. But for any of us who grew up in Africa, we do know, there's that old saying code free fun with you and me. Code to safety first at the zoo. code one line. We grew up with that.Osman Faruqi  7:28  Yeah, I didn't grow up in Africa. Well, and then as soon as I saw this story, I was like, Oh, this is very reminiscent of Jurassic Park. Right. But I love that one of the dads involved in this situation said literally, when I was huddled in his cabin after we were escorted out of our tents, all I could think about was this is just like being interested. Even me as an outsider was like making pop culture references. This dad terrified that his kids are gonna get eaten by lions just like, I'm basically saying, Neil, right.Lewis Hobba  7:53  And does that mean in like 10 years, there'll be a new outbreak, but the lions will be like, genetically bred to be smarter. Yeah, IDan Ilic  8:03  always thought it was a shame that it was like male lines that escaped because if it was lionesses, at least the zookeeper could say, clever girl.Osman Faruqi  8:11  The The other thing that the zookeeper said at this press conference that I found absolutely hilarious. He just he wanted to reiterate that. I just want everyone should be reassured that at no point did the lions leave Taronga Zoo. And it's like you had bro then there will be lions loose in the city. Like that would be saga.Dan Ilic  8:29  Lions parading the up and up and down. Mosman streets, that would be like an improvement. There's so many concrete lines already in Mosman.Osman Faruqi  8:35  That's a weird thing about Sydney and I guess the British kind of legacy that Brits loved building statues of lying everywhere. Yeah, I don't have any.Dan Ilic  8:43  Yeah, the insignia of New South Wales has lions night. Yeah.Lewis Hobba  8:45  What Yeah, what is the UK did have lions at one point, right? Like that wasn't out of nowhere. Really. Louis, the UK never had like lions, they must have brought some lions in right. They must have had some wire the roll. Like we have the way like the way we have Panthers. The lisco Lion, we have Panthers.Dan Ilic  9:07  Of course, I really enjoyed the zookeeper saying everyone relax. Within 10 minutes, we put up the emergency beacons in like 10 minutes. I'm not an apex predator. But I think it would take less than 10 minutes to rip open a school child. That's what that's what I thinkOsman Faruqi  9:24  I want to know at what point they called the police because they did call the police and that I also find hilarious. I get on one hand if something had gone wrong, terribly wrong here. And there was an investigation and they said why didn't you call the police? They could have saved this. Maybe the zoo could have gotten into trouble. But at the same time, what were the police going to do? situation?Dan Ilic  9:42  Yeah, right. Well, it's depends on a spinning like if you call them and say lions are coming their problem would probably do much of you said there's African gangs around Muslim.Osman Faruqi  9:51  People have escaped their cage.Scott Mitchell  9:52  And as if the least one officer who was called to site was going to shoot online I'm drawing straws down at the station who gets to take this call?Lewis Hobba  10:04  I also love the like, obviously you were talking about the Melbourne Cup, you know you love to hear so what about Bruce McAvennie or or, you know, Commentating the cup, but you want to hear anytime there's an animal outbreak. You want David Attenborough on the scene. Crossing right now to add burden Mosman I'm just going kind of the lions are escaping Toronto. They are going to a local campus.Osman Faruqi  10:28  We got instead of David Attenborough was an hour of Karl Stefanovic vamping on the Today show. It's quite extraordinary encourage anyone to watch that an hour of college is talking about how incredible itDan Ilic  10:37  is. No, that sounds that sounds like daytime TV. Neil post put it on Twitter and the responses were quite rational. Slayer freak said did the Lions have COVID and Ryan Finnegan said government overreach, really enjoyed that. When the Herald Sun posted on Twitter, the top of the top six responses were a variation of the same theme, which was basically somehow this is Dan Andrews, this fault. And I thought that is a hometown paper well attuned to their audience.Lewis Hobba  11:06  Now that it's happened at Taronga Zoo. I don't think that the snore and roll program will be selling out that quickly. They get a need. If they want to keep them selling those tickets. They're going to need a pretty heavy reach.Dan Ilic  11:22  A goal that's what you need to do.Lewis Hobba  11:25  If you pitch it just to like thrill seekers as napping attack, cash,Unknown Speaker  11:31  emotional fear.Unknown Speaker  11:33  The rule in snow camping experience more broad than snoreUnknown Speaker  11:37  for me was quite scary because a wine roaming around is like not my thing.Dan Ilic  11:46  This week second fear walking mean Elon Musk paid $45 billion for a social media site the tech journalists have been saying for 10 years is dead. Yes. Upon taking the keys to the site primarily used for creating people's a poster for use. Elon Musk tweeted, well, you get what you pay for. And well, pretty amazing. Immediately after completing the acquisition, Musk fired four of the top executives who were all hoping to be let go because they had incredible contracts with huge exit packages upwards of $50 million. If they were let go without cause Musk fired them because quote for cause this means you can avoid paying $122 million in severance packages. It feels like trolling. Of course it is because these guys will justOsman Faruqi  12:31  go to court. Yeah, when you spent $66 billion buying it you want to be honest make some 100 million dollars savingDan Ilic  12:36  in a move that has outraged everyone who has their ego attached to their Twitter verification like me. He now wants to charge verified people. A fee to be verified initially was gonna be $20 But Stephen King complained, and then mass suggested aid to Stephen King, which I thought was fantastic. Likewise, similar reaction on Twitter to this, Alexandria Acacio Cortes said lmao the billionaire earnestly trying to sell people on the idea that free speech is actually $8 a month subscription plan. Elon Musk replied to her saying Your feedback is appreciated. Now pay $8 Oh my god, this is funny. This is kind of funny. Like Elon Musk is like now the landlord who can see what everyone's doing inside their houses. Before weOsman Faruqi  13:16  get too much into this. Can I ask each of you? Yeah. Are you guys paying the dollars a month for the blue team?Dan Ilic  13:20  I'm a Twitter blue member. You are currently your current? I'm currently Yeah. When they started doing and I was like yeah, I'm gonna pay because I need to undo my tweets. I need to fix my tweets. Um, I was really keen on you know, the ad free subscription articles that they're gonna offer.Scott Mitchell  13:34  But this is apparently potentially going to go live as soon as Monday and Dan Ilic. Will you be paying a deluxe butDan Ilic  13:40  depends how many Patreon members we get this week. So jump on.Lewis Hobba  13:44  I've never been happy to barely use Twitter. It's such a sweet thing. Yes,Dan Ilic  13:50  you're out. You're done with Twitter.Lewis Hobba  13:52  I got out of Twitter about the same time I tapped out of watching Marvel movies. They both have best decision. You guys are fucking idiots. You're wasting your lives. And all over over here. The king of getting the fuck out at the right time. ScottDan Ilic  14:06  Mitchell, what do you think aboutScott Mitchell  14:07  this? Well, I I just it makes me wistful and and want to reminisce about the wonderful times about a month ago that Jack was the CEO and major owner of Twitter. And what I loved about Jack was just how absent minded he was and not really involved in anything. I mean, to the degree often he was offered a yoga retreat the middle of Thailand, well, Myanmar, he was so absent minded. He went to Myanmar for a yoga retreat, and didn't even realize there was a genocide going on in the country. That's the level of absence and not holding the wheel that I I want and I think, you know, I think the wider WellDan Ilic  14:45  we all know the reason why that was because that genocide was sponsored by Facebook.Lewis Hobba  14:51  That reminds me of Do you remember, one of the great, untold and forgotten stories of the pandemic, was when Jared Leto was On a silence retreat for a month, and he came back and he had missed the first month of the hammock, and he, because no one had been able to talk about it.Scott Mitchell  15:09  Wow, incredible, incredible. I mean, it's interesting that at the beginning of this, Dan, you mentioned landlords, because I think that's sort of how we have to think of our social media billionaires is, is as landlords and that means that like, they are all terrible, but what I want in a landlord is an absent minded landlord where like, like, Jackie, like, you know, Hey, man, you know, like, the sink doesn't work. There's lots of Nazis in the house, can you do something about this takes them like too long to do anything, takes them way too long, and they don't really do it. But eventually you bug them and I send a bloke round and they kind of fix the sink, kind of reduce that. Whereas the thing you want least is a very interested who's really, really invested and he's like, can we break the seat more? Can we funnel more money? That's not what you want.Osman Faruqi  16:02  So he also in terms of him being absent minded, I think when the big controversy around whether Trump should be banned for when that sort of story was was written up, Jack at the point at this point was was on like Bora Bora. He was in some island in the middle of nowhere, and not really responding to his messages. Perfect.Scott Mitchell  16:19  And you want your first absentee if we're gonna have a landlord absentee. I feelLewis Hobba  16:24  like he hardly tweeted as well, like he was totally on Twitter, which was kindDan Ilic  16:28  of which is the only way to deal with Twitter, not tweet, never tweet Jack took it took the great advice of Twitter to heart. Musk is already seconded people from Tesla and SpaceX to come and work on Twitter 54 software engineers from those two companies. It's kind of weird that the brightest minds in technology which have been working on how to make Mars habitable, and now trying to figure out an $8 Payable, so you can identify someone who's bullying you. Isn't that? Isn't that just like mind blowing? WhatOsman Faruqi  16:55  is the Twitter code everyone's talking about? We need the software engineers from Tesla to look at it. It's a website where you post something and people read it. What else is going on?Dan Ilic  17:05  I don't understand the self driving TwitterUnknown Speaker  17:10  versus rational fear Twitter has become kind of the de facto count square. Really important that people have the perception that they are able to speak freely,Simon Chilvers  17:21  they see is a rational view.Dan Ilic  17:24  This week's third there B 52. Bombers for fans of thermonuclear war this week is super exciting. A squadron of six B 50 twos are coming to Darwin. Yes, Australia is clearing the decks to make space for the huge 60 year old aircraft, which every news outlet has been careful to say is nuclear capable, but isn't really every aircraft nuclear capable. You know, if you've got a small enough I'm I'm pretty sure my 2000 Corolla is nuclear capable. LikeLewis Hobba  17:49  if you get five friends together, you're like, hey, the six of usDan Ilic  17:53  probably carry this. Yeah, I'm sure the cast of Ninja Warrior and nuclear capable. This podcast right now is probably fear mongers. Pretend your G for a second. Which Australian targets would you take out first?Osman Faruqi  18:06  I guess we're the beefy wrongest. Loser. Like we're telling everyone where we're putting the most dangerous plane to Australia has right? Isn't that your number one target?Lewis Hobba  18:15  I think the most dangerous planes Australia has a quite.Dan Ilic  18:20  I asked this question to Twitter. And someone immediately came back and said I think the most strategic target would be Bunnings. And I thought that's a really good point.Osman Faruqi  18:27  A great way to lose the hearts and minds.Dan Ilic  18:30  It's kind of interesting. You think the Commonwealth was trying to think of a way to get rid of Darwin? They're like, Oh, yeah, you just put the bombers in Darwin? Yeah,Osman Faruqi  18:38  I had to look up whether these be 50 twos are the same pitch twos that you mentioned that the 60 years old. Yeah. Like this is what was in Dr. Strangelove the very old planes. Yeah. i My suspicion is that the US needs a way to get rid of these Australian like kind of military establishment are dumb enough to be like be 50 twos. This is incredible. I've seen. Yeah, we'll takeDan Ilic  19:00  the United States government is looking for Australia to help with their insurance. Do you reckon Australia has a choice in this too? Do you reckon we as a nation can actually push back and say yeah,Scott Mitchell  19:12  yeah. And I think the thing that is sort of been underreported, I think is like that. This is actually the product of like 10 years of Australian making that choice. Like we want American capabilities here for all kinds of reasons. And it's a slow build up of allowing, you know, this infrastructure to be built to host bigger and bigger, you know, capabilities and this is the result of that. It's aDan Ilic  19:35  totally weird bipartisan wank fest as well. Like when this when this news dropped. Peter Dutton was first to jump on the news and say, so this is like an unbelievable service forever. Oh, we need we need the guns.Osman Faruqi  19:47  I was the first one to one.Scott Mitchell  19:50  Can you imagine what you would have to pay also in this news week for Peter Dutton to endorse government? Attack all week. I mean, he's came out so red hot forDan Ilic  20:01  this. He saw his percentage points go up three points. Yeah,Lewis Hobba  20:04  I just I can't stop thinking about just the BPC tos and I know that's a really Oh surpriseDan Ilic  20:09  surprise a Triple J DJ can't stop thinking about the B 52.Osman Faruqi  20:13  Fun fact about the B 50. Twos Louis is that they're not in fact named after the bombers. They are named after the B 52 beehive hairstyle that was itself named after the bombers because of the way that the nose of the big plane looked like a beehive. The B 52 is when they first come out on stage would wear wigs reminiscent of the popular 60s haircut.Dan Ilic  20:33  Wow, were those wigs nuclear capable? When we come back, we'll be talking about cop 27. And if Australia is doing enough, spoiler alert, no,Simon Chilvers  20:44  this is a rational view.Dan Ilic  20:47  rational fear. Lewis Imagine if the $3.3 trillion dollars invested in Super in Australia was put to doing good I reckon we've been a pretty good place, don't you?Lewis Hobba  20:59  I already think it's doing great work, then I love the fact that we're investing in tobacco, international arms deals, local coal trade. I couldn't be prouder of the Australian superannuation industry.Dan Ilic  21:11  Well thankfully, we actually are sponsored by a good investment fund Australian ethical. They don't touch any of that bad stuff. They say fuck off to fossil fuels, gambling, tobacco, all that bad stuff. And they only invest in low carbon businesses and renewable energy it health care, education, and middling podcasts would say.Lewis Hobba  21:34  That's right. But you know what, they're getting it on the ground floor. We could be the next Uber.Dan Ilic  21:39  They are a certified B Corp. and winner of money Magazine's Best of the Best for 2022. So big thank you, Australian ethical for supporting one of, if not the most ethical podcast in Australia.Lewis Hobba  21:52  I did not put my name today.Dan Ilic  21:55  And we're back. Well what a difference a year makes last year a cop 26 Scott Morrison had to be bullied by billboards in New York City to even consider making an appearance to utter the phrase, we'll meet and beat our targets and a cancer to an empty room. But to cut to this year, it's a whole different story. Next week, the at the UN climate talks Australia returns as a good faith actor after about a 15 year departure. Joining us now to talk through how Australia will be received at COP is friend of the show, co host of the greatest moral podcast of our generation and deputy chair of Climate Action Network Australia. Lindo, welcome back to rational view.Linh Do  22:30  Hey, Tom, thanks for having me back.Unknown Speaker  22:31  It's been a while where have youLinh Do  22:32  been long, long time, you know, and got COVID and then basically got knocked out for all of youDan Ilic  22:38  said lion's share a very similar story to you. Yeah. So Australia is returning to the climate talks this year. How do you record Australia will be received at the cop 20 A cop 27.Linh Do  22:49  So you know, one of the things about being stuck in Melbourne during COVID Was you sort of forgot what Australians are actually like overseas. And we have this idea that everyone loves us. And we're the best and like, you know, everyone wants to invite us to the party. But I did get to go to Europe this year, during their summer, our winter. Turns out people aren't really ready to have us back in Europe. Turns out people have not missed us. And I don't think people have missed us at the UN. Do youDan Ilic  23:11  mean like in general in the world? Yeah. In general,Linh Do  23:14  in general, like I think, you know, we just have this image of ourselves that like, we're all really great. And now that we've changed our government, people are ready to welcome us back. And I think that's what the Israeli government is really going to this cop. We're thinking that well, we're better than the last guys were in this job. So everyone will want us back. Right, right. Only so far, I think we should somewhat expect like crickets in terms of the Welcome back.Dan Ilic  23:36  The latest episode of outrageous optimism, and incredible podcast about climate change, and Christiana Figueres was kind of celebrating on one hand, but also wanting us to do more on the other. But it was it's interesting to think that the that the the climate community in the world kind of is remotely excited about us kind of coming back as good faith actors.Linh Do  23:57  I think it's better to have us back that not back at all. But I think if if the world sort of has been using this sort of like carrot and stick approach to Australia, you know, trying to dangle Hey, if you come back and you do good, we'll like reward you for it. But that just didn't work for a decade. And I think as a result, people are really ready to say, hey, Australia, we get that your back and we get evened out some things as part of your election. But when is the proof gonna come in? Why do you still export fossil fuels? Why are you still exploring new gas projects? Like there's just not a lot that's adding up?Dan Ilic  24:27  So what about what we're going to take to court this year? We'll like what, what are the things that haven't really been announced? We have a 43% target, which is pretty, you know,Linh Do  24:36  that is what we take into cop right. But unfortunately, isDan Ilic  24:39  there anything else though? Is it like is it like a Steve Jobs? Oh, and one last thing kind of is there like a disc is Chris Bowen gonna have like something fun in an envelope he's gonna pull out.Linh Do  24:49  Well, hopefully they're listening to this podcast right now. And they're going to take a huge commitment to rejoin the Green Climate Fund. So a couple of years back just for listeners who aren't aware of all of the intricacies of the US.Dan Ilic  24:58  Oh, of course, this is We got we just opted out of the Green Climate Fund.Linh Do  25:02  Totally, we just opted out. So this was basically, you know, as part of the Paris Climate Change Agreement in 2015. Here's a short history lesson for everyone. All the governments of the world committed to 100 US billion dollars. That's That's how much we want to be contributing into, you know, fighting climate change, helping developing countries sort of transition, technology transfer, all of those sorts of buzzwords. But one, we haven't quite gotten there yet. And two, you then have governments like Australia saying, Hey, we don't want to be part of this anymore. Sorry, bye. And we still haven't rejoined yet. So I think if we want to be seriously Welcome back, and for people to take us, you know, in a way that is like, genuine and like, with good faith, not only do we need to rejoice, we need to be contributing some bigger dollars.Dan Ilic  25:42  Oh, excellent. Like, like, how much?Linh Do  25:45  Maybe $400 billion. I feel like the budget just came out. I'm sure we've got some wiggle room. But it needs to be something that's really proportionate to the fact that Israeli is one of the biggest fossil fuel exporters in the world, our sort of per capita emissions is like, enormous and it's not even sometimes mathematically feasible to think what we're emitting is just like everyday Australians compared to someone from Fiji. So we need to be doing what's equitable.Dan Ilic  26:09  Speaking of Pacific Islands, Australia, is making noise that we want to host our own cup in 2024, which is, you know, I think it's exciting. But then we want to do it with the Pacific island nations, what do you reckon? Are they going to welcome us back a day? Are they going to want to run this cup with us,Linh Do  26:26  or they're going to want to run this cup with us or run out with the government of China, right? Like, I think at the moment, our Pacific Islander neighbors and familyDan Ilic  26:34  are gonna say that Jay is going to start his own camp and the Pacific Islands are gonna go and it's gonna beLinh Do  26:38  a bidding war. I think like, everyone recognizes that there's a whole bunch of countries that you want to get onside with whatever your sort of climate messaging and framing is, and whether it's going to be us first China or like the US, we just need to be doing a lot more than sort of this show and tell thing where we're not really demonstrating anything new.Scott Mitchell  26:56  And so far, as you say, like Penny Wong, did a big tour of the Pacific and put like, tried to sort of say, I think reset the relationship after the coalition and go, we put climate front and center because we know that you all care about climate. But there's been so far, at least, very little, in practical terms to prove to those leaders in the Pacific that this government really is going to be a part of that bidding war, as you say,Linh Do  27:23  exactly. And I think it's really great when you know, the climate school strikers and people from like the activism movement say that they care because they also aren't responsible for billions of dollars in like sort of taxpayers money that could be redirected into some of these efforts, I think until Pacific countries actually start to see like hard results, not tied into like all of our geopolitical interests. Why would they turn up to the table as well?Dan Ilic  27:45  What about like sending bone as opposed to elbow is that a good or bad decision?Linh Do  27:50  It's interesting, because I think the world would actually welcome elbow in a way that you know, Scott Morrison was it was just much more about like pressure than anything else. But in some ways, hopefully, that means the Chris Bolden is going to be ready to talk about the nitty gritty and like, get into the details rather than just have like big grand, sort of fanfareOsman Faruqi  28:05  is it? Is it a bit weird though, because like, Rishi Sunak is going there was pressure when he said he wasn't the Prime Minister of the UK, Joe Biden is going and if this really is Australia, saying, Hey, we're back, baby. But we're sending this weird guy that you've never heard of. If you're not following surely politics,Linh Do  28:22  are we are we back? Well, that's the thing maybe always gotten the message that we're not back. And that's why he doesn't want to rock up to the party because he knows he's going to be shunned. So we sent Chris Baldwin and as a decoy.Lewis Hobba  28:32  I think if you want elbow to go you just got to make sure Paul Kelly isn't playing in. You doubleOsman Faruqi  28:39  down the animal theater for a couple of weeks.Dan Ilic  28:43  When they were they ran our renegotiating the contract for manners for the security menace. I realized that elbow followed me on Twitter and I sent him a DM say, hey, elbow, I'll give you my tickets to the Whitlam to the Enmore if you don't, if you don't sign a new security contract. Sorry for filling out roads. You don't cybersecurity,Scott Mitchell  28:58  crazy low down and learn on this thing of elbow not attending. Like I feel like every other developed country in the world, when even like King Charles is not the Prime Minister, but he's not going cause like huge, multi day coverage and public outcry and like,Linh Do  29:16  not letting him go anymore.Scott Mitchell  29:19  No, totally. But like, just he's not going cause like multi day outcry. And like, elbow just goes, I'm not going and because he's a progressive Prime Minister, it sort of seems like you just like escapes scrutiny. And yeah, this isn't like How is this not a five day story?Osman Faruqi  29:35  Only someone was in charge of a daily news book. For five days in a row make it a five day story.Dan Ilic  29:41  Oh, I love this dynamic because because I'll start at 7am and turn it into an award winning daily national podcast and Scott's running it into the ground.Scott Mitchell  29:53  It's not what I'm saying. It's interrogate how I took her husband's job and we now live together. deeper into that.Dan Ilic  30:01  Now this is true because Scott Morrison didn't go last year. And I got so annoyed. I put billboards in New York City, but I'm not doing I'm not doing the same for elbow because I think Chris Bowen is is so across his portfolio and he's such a energy nerd. And he's so across every facet of anything to do with climate change is eons ahead of anyone like Angus Taylor, it makes sense for Chris to go because he's the biggest fucking climate nerd in power right now.Linh Do  30:29  And I think what's exciting about that, right is as much as I as I just slammed the Australian government for not doing enough, this cop, in many ways is like, what's considered a technical cop. So the idea isn't that there's going to be a lot of big fanfare anyway, there's not going to be huge announcements for most of these other countries, because they made a ton of those in Scotland last year, and they haven't sort of followed through these cops all about what are the details? So can Chris Bowen come with the details that, you know, sometimes when you have a head of state or government, it gets lost, becauseDan Ilic  30:54  it's like, every five years, right, every five years, they have a big cup, and then they have like, you know, a few small ones. And they have another big one. Exactly, whichLinh Do  31:01  is sort of what's exciting is If Australia does end up being successful, in our bid to host a cup, we'll be hosting a quote unquote, big one local, we'll be hosting one of the ones that already, but we're gonna be hosting a cop that is going to bring a whole level of scrutiny to the Australian Government that I don't think we're prepared for with this sort of offer of, hey, we're interestedDan Ilic  31:22  in global scrutiny,Linh Do  31:23  and it's scrutiny over everything. You know, right now, the story in Egypt isn't just oh, this climate thing is going to happen. Also, there's a big security crisis right now, like people shouldn't leave because there are human rights abuses in different parts of Egypt. Like, I don't know if the Australian government is ready to have our offshore processing. So we're happy for exactly climateOsman Faruqi  31:41  meeting, but we don't want the torture inspectors.Linh Do  31:45  That's right. Yeah, exactly that so you can't have it both ways. And it's not just about climate, right. I think we'd now really recognize with the floods that happened in Pakistan this year, and obviously on like the eastern seaboard of Australia, all of these issues are intersectional. It's not just like us in like Sydney, Melbourne, etc. That is suffering, various other partsDan Ilic  32:03  of the world. I look forward to cop in 2024, hosted by Australia and all the Pacific island nations except for Nauru. I'm looking forward to big thank you to all of our guests for irrational fear this week. lindo. Thank you, Scott Mitchell. Thank you, Jasmine for Ricky. Thank you. Luis Hubbert. Thank you. Let's get our plugs underway. What would you like to plug Lin?Linh Do  32:25  Oh, wow, I forgot about this moment. Maybe if elbows following you on Twitter as well just maybe send him a little DM before your blue texts expire. Asking him to commit some dollars for the Green Climate Fund.Dan Ilic  32:37  I can do that. Scott Mitchell atScott Mitchell  32:39  7am Subscribe best daily podcast in Australia. And my secret to 7am is that I don't talk on it. Today. As an EP of this show, you've taken a very different time. And I'm interested to see how that's worked out. Wow,Dan Ilic  32:56  what shade Scott Mitchell. Oh my god.Osman Faruqi  33:00  Oh, he really stepped on mine because I was gonna I was gonna back 7amDan Ilic  33:06  to two plugs to plug. Oh, as you got a great podcast the drop?Osman Faruqi  33:09  I do. But it's not you know, it's not actually that great to plug your own podcast. Scott, if you want to take some notes. Since you brought it up. I do have a weekly contra podcast. It's the best in the biz. Drop, follow it. Subscribe.Dan Ilic  33:20  Listen to a great interview with Howie from formula of coolers and the other day. Excellent Louis about what do you want to play?Lewis Hobba  33:27  I'll just I'm gonna replug the TV show. We'll go and watch it on iView it's called Australia's best competition competition. And it's very good. It's very good. It's veryOsman Faruqi  33:35  good. I think it's so good. I put it in the newspaper. It's a great Oh, RooLewis Hobba  33:40  palace. Power. Thanks.Scott Mitchell  33:42  Great addition to the Friday night slate as well.Lewis Hobba  33:46  Scott Mitchell has asked me at 7amDan Ilic  33:48  Wonder ratings a tank surely there's like there's like some kind of third one Turkish wrestling. You can kind of do a cross over that's not bad. It's not bad. Yeah. Big thanks to Rhode Mike's stupid old studios Australian ethical our Patreon supporters and Jacob round on the Tepanyaki timeline. He Thank you also to the Do GO On Podcast who lent their voices to the sketch at the top of the show. Another great Australian podcast they're speaking of podcasts. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Goodnight A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical Recorded IN PERSON around Lewis' kitchen table. Fearmongers this week are Chris Taylor, Dan Ilic, Lewis Hobba, Dan Adams CEO of Amber, AND WENDY ZUKERMAN from the podcast Science Vs.She's back in Australia — we're lucky to have her!There's a different energy to the in person podcasts that's for sure. We cover —Covid and cruise lines.Climate Protests.Money coming back to the ABC in the budget.Energy price shocks with the CEO of Amber, Dan Adams.Thanks for listening, Chip into the Patreon if you can! 🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical Dan Ilic  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by Australian ethical. Hello. Hello Hi. Oh,it's exciting, Louis Hello Daniel. How are you? I'm great. We're at your house around your kitchen table WelcomeLewis Hobba  0:11  Welcome to the mansion. This is the bottom of 16 storyDan Ilic  0:18  wow that ABC grant has really kicked in earlyLewis Hobba  0:21  actually just leave out the ABC IDan Ilic  0:25  want to say a big thank you to our new Patreon supporter Andrew car this week we gained a Patreon supporter but last 12 I don't know what happened. Churn if a lot of rip but a big thank you to Australia ethical who has jumped on board once again as our sponsor for the next nine weeks Thank you Australian eCycleChris Taylor  0:42  what you couldn't get Hancock big dollar from the ethics community really kicked in.Dan Ilic  0:51  Soon all of the previous 10 years of irrational fears are going to be heading to the Patreon only or Apple subscriptions oh you know the old episodes from this you're going to be kicking around but you know, the previous nineLewis Hobba  1:03  are you going to put up the one where you're in blackface? Because hey, yearsDan Ilic  1:09  Yes, yes, thank you to all those who are can imagine what it would be like to have like face on a podcast that's going behind the paywall, but there is going to be some serious cutting edge comedy from 2013. If you want you're gonna have to pay. Yeah, so remember that we had some good Kevin Rudd jokes. Chris Taylor had some good Superleague jokes. SoChris Taylor  1:30  yeah, I was doing I had a very tight two minutes.Lewis Hobba  1:33  Well, you're talking about Superleague again. TodayDan Ilic  1:37  we're recording this on Gadigal Land of the Euro nation's sovereignty was never seen it we need a treaty. Let's start the show.Simon Chilvers  1:43  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of our rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:56  Tonight after being dumped by editors for making anti semitic comments Kanye West announces a new line of ugly sandals in collaboration with Hugo Boss and Elon Musk will finally take the case to Twitter promising the long awaited features that users have been demanding, such as the ability to read Donald Trump's tweets, and the ABC loses the television rights of Dr. Hodor. Disney plus the underfunded public broadcaster has commissioned a new series to make up for the loss of Dr. Who called in turn where did you lose? Yeah, yeah, it was it was really good in my head.Chris Taylor  2:38  As you were reading ahead, and we're like, Oh, I've been just on that story. I mean, it's been devastating is but the good news is ABC has maintained the rights to Whovians. But they have gone on to the goal.Dan Ilic  2:51  It is the 27th of October and this is the podcast with fewer manners than James Corden. This is a rational, rational.Dan Adams  2:58  Half of you are excited.Dan Ilic  3:10  Wasn't a rational fear on your host former cast member of friends Dan Ilic. And this is the podcast that takes the news and adds a bit of ice magic. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. He's been avoiding the news for to make his comedy of late preferring to kind of foist stories from his own head upon the unsuspecting public. It's comedy writer Chris Taylor. Welcome, Chris. It'sChris Taylor  3:28  great to be back on the podcast. ThankDan Ilic  3:29  you. It has the world of fiction treating you.Chris Taylor  3:33  It's almost as fictional as real world politics. It's very paradoxical. You retreat from you know, having done all like topical satirical news based comedy for years. You think, you know, that's got a shelf life, I'm going to retreat to the world of fiction. And it's really more real in the fictional world than it is in the news world.Dan Ilic  3:52  Yeah. And we thought Australia has lost her forever to the hustle and bustle of New York City. But she's now returned to our boring shores. It's podcaster. Wendy Zukerman. Welcome, Wendy. Thanks for having me. Oh, why are you coming back to Australia?Wendy Zukerman  4:05  Ah, well, the ratio of kangaroos to guns was just let me check more kangaroos.Dan Ilic  4:17  And he may have his own TV show on the ABC but he's not above allowing us to sit in his kitchen to record our little podcast. It's TV. It's Louis Oba.Lewis Hobba  4:26  That's right. Yes. This is the last podcast I'll be doing. I've come to say goodbye to the silver screen. After the glimmering lights of one episode of television.Dan Ilic  4:37  When this goes to air that's tonight.Lewis Hobba  4:40  Yeah, tonight 8:30pm on ABC plus.Chris Taylor  4:45  All right, Ken, that's genius. Because you know that there's so much scrutiny of TV especially ABC at the moment like I think you know, the Frank Kelly show, frankly was gone. Oh, I'd only give that three episodes. Your Genius is to only promise one and get out there'll be no Twitter demands for less of this you're delivering the least possible YeahLewis Hobba  5:04  ChrisDan Ilic  5:06  you've had many TV shows of your own like Do you have any advice for Louis with his one episodeChris Taylor  5:12  don't read the tweetsLewis Hobba  5:14  and it's not it's not like it was when because Dan and I were on television you are on well obviously you were on for a long time before we were and then when we weren't hungry base Twitter was that was toxic peak I think. I don't actually think it's that bad for television anymore.Chris Taylor  5:28  No, because there's no viewers anymore. I actually have done shows recently named the reason I knew they weren't going well wasn't because there was an avalanche of sort of negative tweets. It was just no one was complaining. Like so bad that people it was almost like kicking a dog when it's already dead. Even even the world of Twitter thought nobody just crawled to tweet about thisWendy Zukerman  5:51  so depressed right?Lewis Hobba  5:55  It was worse than Emily inherit.Dan Ilic  6:00  Coming up later, with energy prices set to explode. We talked with Amber's ceo dan Adams about what else we can burn to keep the aircon on this summer. But first a message from this week's sponsor.Simon Chilvers  6:09  My Mama Mama, mama, mama, mama,Robbie McGreggor  6:11  we're here we are. Let's increase some interest rates.Unknown Speaker  6:15  Yes, audible and the Department of Treasury present a new way to deliver the budget speech. Say goodbye to one charming charmers. Is there a business case for this? Say hello to the economic sexiness of Robbie McGregor from getting wages moving,Robbie McGreggor  6:32  Madam Speaker, we want to see growth in all the right areas. Is that inflation nicely in your hip pocket? Or are you just increasing your pay packetUnknown Speaker  6:43  to the ins and outs of making more taxpayersRobbie McGreggor  6:47  more Australians will be able to afford to make more babies than ever before? It's all about participation and product tivity ifUnknown Speaker  6:59  you know what I mean, you're having a place to live but HelpRobbie McGreggor  7:03  to Buy scheme allows up to 40,000 eligible Australians to own their own home with a lower deposit and smaller mortgage. Oh, yes, smaller mortgage. Size does matter. Oh,Unknown Speaker  7:21  Robbie McGregor reads the 2022 budget only on Audible subscribe now and get a bonus episode of Robbie saying the words fiscal stimulus for 45 minutes straightRobbie McGreggor  7:32  fiscal stimulus, fiscal stimulus, fiscal stimulus? Yes. Stimulus fisting.Dan Ilic  7:50  Now I promise you that the last time we'll do that joke ILewis Hobba  7:54  absolutely don't believe it as it was coming to the fiscal stimulus that I'm like, this is an old skit. Doing what he does best recite this week'sDan Ilic  8:04  first fib now before we jump into the first fear, I just want to play a little game of word association. I'll say something and you folks jump in with the first thing that comes to mind when I say the words when I say the word cruise liner,Unknown Speaker  8:18  oh Castro close isLewis Hobba  8:21  good murder.Dan Ilic  8:22  Also very good. BoomLewis Hobba  8:24  is fantastic shuffleboard pointsDan Ilic  8:31  yes cruise line is vehicles built to the exact specifications to help boomers get COVID and also wealth redistribution if that's what you want to call it. There's a cruise line of going up down the West Coast of Australia surprise surprise crew and passengers have a princessChris Taylor  8:45  pathogen I thinkLewis Hobba  8:48  I did have I did have the COVID princess but you know that's so obvious. You just get it next to the mashed potatoes in the buffet. Like there's just a COVID skirt.Dan Ilic  9:02  It's docked in groom and it's gonna it's gonna be docking up and down the west coast of Western Australia. Sure. Well, that'sChris Taylor  9:07  good because they they sort of missed out on they were the one state thanks to Matt McGowan's you know quite officious border closures that never really got to enjoy the you know the party that was COVID so thank God the piano cruise company is bringing itLewis Hobba  9:22  down that we're going to do stop the boats fine I really keep Perth in the 10 years behind to getChris Taylor  9:30  the Payton the couple of opinion from Tacoma. Like what's going on? Lyft did he keep his little trophyLewis Hobba  9:35  would be could be stopped the ships like just enough of a copyright difference? Yeah.Dan Ilic  9:41  Wendy, I got a question for you regarding it's like, have we learned about COVID and cruise lines like what's going on?Wendy Zukerman  9:49  I mean, if you could create a perfect sport, like if you were COVID You just be like fuck yes. I've got it.Chris Taylor  9:57  My markets behind cruise ships. Peace of peace.Wendy Zukerman  10:01  Right? And there's so many people that was 2000 people.Dan Ilic  10:03  This would be like a 32nd episode of Science first it would have been like,Wendy Zukerman  10:06  Should you go on a cruise ship? But my favorite I did, I did write a list of all the my favorite names of all the cruise ships that had had gotten COVID Over the last few years. Because it was a joy. I have to say early COVID reporting as ever like it was it was so scary at the beginning. And then just hearing like, the Diamond Princess has, you know, and it was just like, it was like this like I couldn't help but it warms your heart. But again, it's so damn predictable. Remember Grand Princess Ruby Princess world dream, carnival valor silver Vala. Norwegian Breakaway pride of America just this week as well. In New Zealand. They just had an outbreak on one of their cruise ships, which was called Ovation of the sea. Favorite my favorite of all the cruise ship lives this isn't even this the other half of theDan Ilic  10:53  ocean is so deliciously close to OmicronLewis Hobba  10:57  standing ovation it's more of a wind down or respiratory.Wendy Zukerman  11:03  But then, when it hit Greg motivaChris Taylor  11:06  Oh, Greg water was the name of theWendy Zukerman  11:09  recruits you which is you know, like it was, it was a fellaChris Taylor  11:13  went off to work that day. Normally, the ICO was that you could play a game between guests guests. Is it a drag queen or a cruise ship? Crystal harmony, all that kind of thing. But Greg Morton from Pymble.Dan Ilic  11:28  I love this story. In the on the ABC website, it said Princess Cruises said that the COVID 19 outbreak was being managed effectively how what's how much confidence does it give you? When a cruise company says honor, the outbreak has been managed effectively? Wow.Lewis Hobba  11:44  I mean, it is one of those things where at this point is it is kind of self selecting you know, at the start, we were like, hey, look, we should all stay home and protect each other from COVID. At this point, if you're going on a cruise, I'm not gonna say maybe you should die. But it is kind of like you are putting yourself but you're putting your life in God's hands.Dan Ilic  12:01  Or if you are a millennial trying to break into the housing market send your parents on a cruise.Chris Taylor  12:06  Like when like, you know what, most of us are vaccinated. Now, if you're like on triple, quadruple vaccine, could I go on a cruise with any confidence or even if you quad Vax, you've still step onboard anything called Princess, you're still gonna getWendy Zukerman  12:22  I think Greg Mortimer but, you know, with the new variants, you remember the percentages we had, but I don't I don't think so. I shouldn't say even though cruises are way funnier than when you know someone walks off a Boeing 747 on the qf whatever. Actually, your chance of getting COVID is higher on a cruise ship because there's just more people on a cruise. The chancesChris Taylor  12:45  of getting anything on a cruise ship islet's be more reassured, you know, they've always got like entertainment on cruise. It's normally ugly, Dave Gray, but if Norman Swan was the entertainment, and you just sort of got the lectures about how bad then I might be tempted to go on and feel a bit safer if he was the comic each night.Dan Ilic  13:11  Yeah, brim council said that the 1900 passengers is going to spend about $190,000 in brooms so they're quite cool with it at the hospital. Well, I assume that that's about $100 per person that's like buying a coffee in Western Australia. But is it kind of worth it? Do you think the idea is worth it to the economy to have all these infected people come to your little town? And I thinkWendy Zukerman  13:33  right I think we've just decided we're just gonna let it run is just so much more fun to make.Chris Taylor  13:40  Someone think of the camels. I think the population of room is mostly camels these days. Now that was another interesting I keep looking at Wendy for checking that animals just didn't get it.Wendy Zukerman  13:56  Know what the Minks remember there was this there was a mink outbreak.Lewis Hobba  13:59  Yeah, zoos, gorillas and lions were getting.Wendy Zukerman  14:04  What country was it that like? Did like killed a bunch of minks in fear that are made against Russia? No, it was like, um, I want to say someone's Scandinavian and then they were like, oh, sorry.Lewis Hobba  14:18  Lovely coats going around.Chris Taylor  14:21  Reduced it's got COVID but it's reduced.Robbie McGreggor  14:24  Sue's rational fearChris Taylor  14:27  Denmark has announced it will eliminate the country's entire population of farmed makes more than 15 million will be calledRobbie McGreggor  14:35  who you are listening to a very rational fear.Dan Ilic  14:41  This week second fear mashed potatoes. You know, some may lament that humans have systematically removed 70% of all animal life on Earth since the 70s, whereas others may complain that climate activists have plastic yet another artwork with common kitchen stuffs. Climate protesters Germany have thrown running mashed potato over a Manet worth 100 and and $10 million in what seems to be the latest in the string of copycat protests. Chris, is this an effective form of protest? You think? Well, we'reChris Taylor  15:09  not we're talking about it. But I don't know about I don't know about you, I tend to sort of take in the fact that throwing food and they're throwing it at art, and I forget what they're actually protest. I mean, there's a lot of it, though, did sort of, you know,Wendy Zukerman  15:22  make you go why? And then you looked it up. And then you were like, climate change.Chris Taylor  15:27  This is a classic one, almost like all protests of late, I think at the extreme end, where you're sympathetic with the cause and you're little bit puzzled by the execution. So yeah, just to recap, there was one in Melbourne, I think was a Picasso then they did the sunflowers with soup. And as you said, down they didn't Manet with mashed potatoes. They also someone threw spaghetti to Jackson Pollock and no one can cook it is sort of it's bizarre logic. Or you might say it's impeccable logic because if you want to express anger at oil companies, then is the obvious target 19th century artists painting such evil toxic problematic things as water lilies and flower you know, they're also we need to protect the planet. So let'sLewis Hobba  16:17  just type was typing in oil companies into Google, and it just auto finished oil paintings. All day.Dan Ilic  16:26  It was a great protest last week, where two people took in cream pies and smash the faces of a wax statue of King Charles and Queen Consort Camilla at Madame Tussauds, and I thought that was pretty good. Yeah, that's comedy.Chris Taylor  16:40  But yeah, if you want to, like if you want to protest oil, you don't throw food at the car. So you throw food at Picasso's car. Surely isn't that the thing? Like it seems to be just IWendy Zukerman  16:51  I love it. I'm so into this. I mean, I think we're talking about it. I think the guys who did it, they were like, look, we tried to have direct action. And they did try and block some actual, like, oil distribution in the UK, and no one reported on it. And then they're like, let's just throw some shit at art and all of a sudden look we're talking about Yeah.Chris Taylor  17:12  Look, we've all been to these galleries. There's you know, those people who just sit there and there's more of them than you need. There's like Nico, what's the job? Nothing ever exciting. What happened? How on earth have people judging in with bagfuls of Woolies groceries pass those guys on the chair? Does something not go off in their head like a light bulb? Because oh the person carrying soup might not be here for the other part of these protests always once the food's been distributed is the glowing they all glue their hands to the work now not to the to the well, you know, if you lose yourself to a Kindle it would probably increase its value but but then the glowing beside it. And that's okay. I don't mind it's sort of interesting but I did see this week that Spencer tunic is coming back to Sydney our he's the guy that photographs a lot of nude people in front of the Opera House. I think this time it's Bondi Beach now, I'm not going to sign up to a Spencer tunic art exhibit if I think there's any possibility whatsoever some oil protesters are gonna glue themselves to my scrotum.Lewis Hobba  18:21  actually incentivize me to goDan Ilic  18:30  that's fantastic. You might actually be in the in the disclaim you've got a sign. You may.Lewis Hobba  18:38  Best part about it. I think the reason it's good is like when they were like chaining themselves to roads. They were like, Oh, you just slow down my trip to work. And Pete like people are like, Well, I'm just I'm not an oil executive. I'm just a guy who's driving to work. And even though I think that that is more logical, it was kind of more annoying to people who weren't really at fault. Yes. Whereas with this you like whereas fuckingChris Taylor  19:01  Manet? Yeah.Dan Ilic  19:06  I don't think this harms anyone because often the paintings aren't harmed. The paintings aren't harmed, it gets a lot of attention. And it makes things exciting. If you're just a person at the gallery and you're filming this as it happens. That's a lot of clicks via social media. That's fantastic,Chris Taylor  19:21  too. It's like you've been to these galleries in Europe, or anywhere where there's these masterpieces. The sightlines are bad enough just read to you can't see the Mona Lisa or the Waterlase because there's always Americans with their selfie sticks. If you then on top of every tourist got oil protesters gluing themselves to the word your sight lines are shit.Wendy Zukerman  19:44  I love this quote from one of them though, just like there really because I did. I did have so many thoughts crisp but then they were like,Unknown Speaker  19:50  researched the topic.Wendy Zukerman  19:54  For more than 30 seconds. They said one of the protesters said are you more concerned about the protection of a painting or the protection of our planet, and I love that I was like, yeah, these water liliesLewis Hobba  20:07  are gonna be like, Well do you care more aboutDan Ilic  20:14  like Van Gogh. Van Gogh's did Matisse is dead Picasso is dead. If they damaged a band quilty, I'd be pretty upset.Chris Taylor  20:22  I'd like to see the artists get revenge. Like not not that not the dead ones obviously. But let's say let's say like I'd like to select slug to car to start throwing paint at food. People walking into rock pool with two tins of juleps and painted at the wagyu in Paris Match.Lewis Hobba  20:45  This is the OPEC at least you know like beef production actually does cause a lot of effect. So if you're throwingChris Taylor  20:55  me over there a logic irrational fear you've been lied to the real danger is not global warming. It's global warming panic the scare mongering, it seems to me that global warming fear mongering seems the literally driving people while dragging them to bully the rest of us.Dan Ilic  21:14  This way, it's the fear in what was regarded as a very staid and boring budget. There's something very exciting for people who work in media, particularly around this table. The budget is brought back money to the ABC $150 million is coming back this year. Most of all will be spent on Louis's moustache grooming,Lewis Hobba  21:30  or the 15 levels of my house. That's right. Yeah, about this one,Dan Ilic  21:33  given nearly 600 million was cut from the ABC over the last eight years. It's a welcome reprieve. $500,000 of that budget will be used to get Gen X radio station Double J on the FM frequency. Chris, you are rapidly aging into the demographic of people who watch the ABC. Is this a good use of fun?Chris Taylor  21:55  Look, it's an interesting use of funds. It's first of all, I love the budget. It's Accountancy is not have nots. It should be awake. It should be like strict across the shedule. I'd watch it sooner than the trade isLewis Hobba  22:08  fine. Yeah, totally.Chris Taylor  22:12  Any money to the public broadcaster is very welcome the specific $500,000 for Double J puzzles me because of all the things at the ABC. And I think we've all worked their positions over the of all the areas you could help the IBC like more money for a new panel show that's not hosted by Glanusk cash incentives to make Australians watch q&a again. Maybe some basic charisma training for Michael Roland. These are areas I would have prioritized but where did they go? money to help expand Double J into regional Australia and if there's one thing we all know regional Australia has been crying out for its better access to John Butler and the wetland. Farmers are hurting the people are demanding more Wilco feeds around them.Dan Ilic  22:58  I mean, $500,000 isn't a lot for broadcast transmission. I worked at a radio station as a board member and it's out for community radio stations. It's about $100,000 a year. ButChris Taylor  23:09  this is what cracks me up the money's specifically it's the money is going on a feasibility study to see if Double J can transfer to the FM band. Just to be clear, they're not going to the FM band itself the way to the 2028 budget for that. They're just spending money to see if it's feasible to go to FM so they're currently digitalDan Ilic  23:29  that money is just going to another government department KPMGChris Taylor  23:33  Double J is currently digital they want to upgrade to analog now that's like someone on Tik Tok wanting to upgrade to MySpace like someone driving a Tesla guy no upgrade to a penny van turns out apparently digital radio wasn't the future that everyone forecasts like aside from I think is a chemist warehouse install radio out right today FM. But other than that, like digital radio has been a bit of fast so they are looking at the new technology of FFM. Yeah, we shouldn't be surprised by this. Because this is elbow and elbow throwing money at Double J and alternative old person music is basically our bones whole theme. That's his pet.Dan Ilic  24:18  He's looking for a lunchtime show.Chris Taylor  24:22  He's audition, giving grants to double Jays like scomo giving special grants to hillside interest is very much a play and the only thing like because I still trying to get a grip on his prime ministership, he seems like he's mostly out of the country all the time. The only time he's in the country. He's basically at midnight oil geeks are in the mosh pit at the end while watching Alex Lloyd so you said the double Jays on his on his radar. And I guess we should just be thankful that it is Double J and those sorts of bands he's giving money to because of a was the previous guy. It'd just be giving money to April sun in Cuba. ButDan Ilic  25:05  I don't know if you caught any of the budget coverage, but this is how the today's show started and ended their conversation with the treasurer Jim Shammas. So I've got the ins and the outs. Yeah, they put me on after Matthew McConaughey.Unknown Speaker  25:21  To see what I've got for you at the end of this interview, then you'll feel it. Hey, And just lastly, to prove that you are a far more interesting interview than Matthew McConaughey. He can do this let me just show you and now that I'm seeing it who columnsDan Ilic  25:46  Yeah, so this he came on straight after Matthew McConaughey. And then at the end of the conversation, they played a Matthew McConaughey clip of him stripping Jimson Shammas just didn't know anything of what was going onChris Taylor  26:00  televisions dumbing downWendy Zukerman  26:04  I mean, never thought that there was any government but like this budget I mean, I usually don't get my ovulation doesn't spark up for any old budget. This one hasn't really this one has some really exciting things in it and then just having to contend with this for Double J Magic Mike, you know, it's exciting thing.Dan Ilic  26:30  What are you excited about windy.Wendy Zukerman  26:32  I think like a lot of the climate change the moving towards like electric vehicles. You can complain, obviously, what bore but it showed like direction, you know, for the first time and so long, it's like, you can see a future where we're gonna have more electric vehicles, which we did, which was really exciting. And there's some really clever stuff about like, carbon capture where they didn't just say this is bullshit, because it's super political. But instead they were like, look, this may have a place but we're just not going to put it on the fucking pedestal that Liberal Party did. But like we're not going to just like throw it down the dumpster.Dan Ilic  27:02  I really liked that because they were like, no, sorry, Chevron, we're gonna put any more money in your plant. But here's some things we do think about which is cement and other really hard to abate them right, like cruises. And yeah, the NRMA is going to be building like a supercharger network thanks to thanks to this budget, which is amazing.Chris Taylor  27:20  That's all quite interesting. But did you see the Matthew McConaughey?Dan Ilic  27:30  Before we get to this week's interview next month is is the Victorian State election. Now the Liberal Party is strongest in Victoria amongst boomers and older voters while millennial vote for the Liberal Party has dropped to about 10 to 25% which is kind of surprising because Victorian lives have been doing some really great work on tick tock like this bit of gold here from reward. Liberal candidate Cynthia Watson.Unknown Speaker  27:53  I'm so nervous Victoria. It's about time we got rid of this corrupt state Labour Government. Remember this NovemberDan Ilic  28:04  I'll play for you again.Unknown Speaker  28:07  It's about time we got rid of this corrupt state labor government. Remember this November?Lewis Hobba  28:12  Oh, I see. It's about damn time. She saysDan Ilic  28:17  yes, Elisa reference, really into it. It's very exciting.Wendy Zukerman  28:21  Do you think they practice the clap?Lewis Hobba  28:24  Do you think they know about her song everyone's gay? The liberal party as well.Dan Ilic  28:31  When we come back which superyacht should OPEC executives buy during this once in a generation energy crisis? Lewis I'm just pausing the podcast briefly to let you know some good news. I know you're having a baby. I know that there's a lot of pressures at the ABC. But thankfully, you no longer have to dip into your pocket to pay for this podcast.Lewis Hobba  28:49  What Why? WhyDan Ilic  28:50  not? Because we got a sponsor, Australian ethical has come on board. And they're going to help us pay for this podcast because it's quite expensive. We've got to pay for you know Chris Taylor's wine habit.Lewis Hobba  29:01  Are they aware that by sponsoring this podcast, they've thrown any possible claim to good ethics that they might have had away?Dan Ilic  29:10  Now they've listened to our podcast I like the cut of our job and I've looked at them carefully and I to like the cut of their jib. They started in 1986 They've been really busy investing people's money in good things. They stay away from stuff like weapons, human trafficking, fossil fuels, tobacco gambling, you know all the other stuff that we like to make fun of. They stay away from what's left.Lewis Hobba  29:33  What else is there the hacks money,Dan Ilic  29:36  podcasts, money media.Lewis Hobba  29:40  No one's ever lost money investing in a media organization.Dan Ilic  29:45  So if you looking at your super or your financials and you're thinking gee, I wonder if my money is doing good for the world or doing bad for the world. And you're thinking about moving your money, go check out Australian ethical, and their website is Straight ethical Comdata you. And we're back. You know, one of the stark realities of this budget handed down last night was that energy prices going to pretty much explode 20% increase this year plus a 36% increase next year. That's a 56% increase over the next couple of years. Joining us now to talk about why this is happening is the co founder and CO CEO of amber electric, Dan Adams. Welcome, Dan. Thanks for joining us on irrational fear.Dan Adams  30:27  Thanks for having me.Dan Ilic  30:28  It's great to have you now. Why the hell are prices increasing so much? And is it really due to the war in Iraq? Or is it due to Iran? Sorry, Ukraine, that was a long time ago?Chris Taylor  30:38  Or is it? Or is that mission accomplished?Dan Ilic  30:42  Or is it a lot more complicated than we think? And all we have time for on this podcast? Like, what why why energy crisis is gonna go crazy over the next two years.Dan Adams  30:48  Yeah, I mean, basically, the problem was, we are still super dependent on fossil fuels. And we need to get off them as fast as possible, because lots of our power still comes from coal and gas, the sanctions against Russia and mean that coal and gas prices have gone up dramatically. And that's flowing through to our power bills.Dan Ilic  31:05  But it doesn't make sense because like, you know, Australia is like the third largest exporter of fossil fuels, we export coal, we export gas, like surely surely our energy price, surely we should be have the cheapest energy in the world, right?Dan Adams  31:16  You would think so. But basically, what we're doing is previous governments and policies, which basically meant that we are exporting lots of our coal and gas overseas, and there isn't enough for our own domestic supply, even though we're a massive exporter of these fossil fuels, which is pretty crazy. When you think about it. I mean, one, we shouldn't be on fossil fuels at all. And to the fact that we've actually exporting more, so much that we don't have enough for ourselves is pretty wild, or isDan Ilic  31:45  this something else we can burn? I mean, we've got a lot of empty pie faces around can weLewis Hobba  31:49  for another great joke from the Iraq War? And I think that'sChris Taylor  31:56  retired PiFace references.Lewis Hobba  31:59  Have you had a stroke and broken up in 2012?Chris Taylor  32:03  We'll start talking about Sizzla.Dan Ilic  32:06  Dan, what else can we burn? WhatDan Adams  32:07  else are we gonna burn? I think we need to stop burning stuff is basically the basically the solution. I mean, you can you can you can burn,Lewis Hobba  32:17  I'm not sure if you'd be paying attention, I don't think the country is gonna go for it.Dan Adams  32:21  There's a massive nuclear reactor in the in the sky, but called the sun that we should probably start using.Dan Ilic  32:27  Now you guys at Amber, you give customers access to the wholesale price, which is kind of your whole business model. Given that the wholesale price is gonna go gangbusters over the next two years, your customers scared.Dan Adams  32:42  So lots of our customers have batteries. And so basically what that means is they were automating their batteries to export into the grid when those prices are spiking. And so they're earning the big, the same prices as those big coal and gas generators are earning for their for their exports, which is pretty cool beans, that households are using solar panel from their roof to compete directly with large coal and gas generators. And while big oil and gas generators are charging, you know, 100 times normal prices for their power during a few hours. Some of the time our customers are earning those 100 times normal prices, which is prettyDan Ilic  33:19  cool. That's so that's so cool. Imagine that like imagine likeLewis Hobba  33:24  it become like a Saudi oil barrel, just the cost of one Tesla battery?Wendy Zukerman  33:29  Unfortunately, solar in a basement. Floor actually,Dan Adams  33:35  yeah, completely. I mean, it basically means that as an individual household, you can go in and compete with the big coal gas generators and beat them at their own at their own game. And rather than making off of the big profits, you can do so yourself for getting basically getting paid to support the renewable transition.Dan Ilic  33:53  Wendy mentioned that the climate industry or the renewable industry did pretty well in the budget. Were you happy with the budget that got brought down yesterday?Dan Adams  34:01  Yeah, I mean, I think there's some positive steps forward there around support for electric vehicles. And, you know, the rewiring Australia, the $20 billion being invested there over the next earnings over the next 10 years. So there's a big steps forward there. And we're starting to move in the right direction. And, you know, the only way to get out of this energy crisis and this climate crisis that we're facing, is to invest in renewables as fast as we can. So it's exciting to see the world starting and Australia starting to move in the right direction. But obviously, I'd love toDan Ilic  34:31  see more. Dan, I'd saw that in the Australian Financial Review this week that you got $13 million from an RMA raising some money there, that's pretty good. Are you going to be burning that to to keep to keep cool? How many doubles? You can do a feasibilityLewis Hobba  34:49  study of Double J I think that's 4000.Dan Adams  34:54  It wasn't actually all for being our Ma It was other investors as well, but it is it's exciting because You know, at the moment, we're automating household batteries, but where we are going to start to help people automate electric vehicles as well. So they can charge them the other day when there's lots of cheap solar in the grid. And then in the future, we'll be out actually take power out of your electric vehicle, feed it into the grid, and displace fossil fuels with renewable power sitting in your Eevee. And so we're pretty excited about that. And obviously, a lot of NRMA as members are going to have EVs in the future. So we're excited to work with them to make that happen.Dan Ilic  35:27  So you can like charge your car when electricity is cheap, and then like, plugged your car into the grid when electricity is expensive and pay off your car.Lewis Hobba  35:34  It's like if you could convince people who love Bitcoin to get in on this, so buy low, sell high. No. Well,Dan Ilic  35:42  I think I think those people are into this. You've got to convince Matt Canavan to get into it.Dan Adams  35:48  Sometimes there's so much renewables in the grid, that the Power Price is actually negative. So we'll pay you to charge your electric vehicle from surplus, renewable power. And then the evening we'll pay you again to displace fossil fuels out of the grid. Oh my god,Lewis Hobba  36:03  this feels like a scam.Dan Ilic  36:10  Well, Dan, thank you very much for joining us on irrational fear. Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. No worries. Well, that is it for the show. Big thank you to Wendy Chris Lewis listed the plugs. What have you got two plugs. Let's start with you. Dan, what you want to plug first.Dan Adams  36:21  Well, you got a battery. We'd love to have you on board with ambisonic.Dan Ilic  36:25  Dan wants you to plug in the battery. When do you do anything to plug anything?Wendy Zukerman  36:31  I just I guess the podcast? Yeah, science versus Yeah. Have a listen. Yeah, on Spotify.Lewis Hobba  36:37  So quite. It's a really good podcast.Dan Ilic  36:40  It's one of the biggest podcasts in the world. Yeah.Chris Taylor  36:42  I'd also like to plug when he's podcast, science versus get intoDan Ilic  36:48  lists have anything coming to coming toLewis Hobba  36:53  show I've got a television show. It is by the time this podcast goes out it will be out now. You can watch it on ABC iView. It's called Australia's best competition competition. With me and my friend Michael hing we enter competitions all around the country to decide which one is Australia's best. Big thankDan Ilic  37:11  you to road Mike's Australian ethical our Patreon supporters, Jacob round and everyone who listens Thank you for listening. Really appreciate it. Until next week, there's always going to be scared off goodnight A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical This podcast was recorded about 1 hour before Liz Truss resigned — but is well worth a listen. Not only do with have a stellar Australian panel featuring comedian Bea Barbeau-Scurla and Journalist Rick Morton, we brought in the big guns from the UK to help us all understand what is happening in UK politics right now.Athena Kugblenu unleashes a cathartic and hilarious rant, that distills the situation into a joyful 15 minute conversation. If you really want to know what’s going on in the UK — listen to this podcast.WE HAVE A SPONSOR!This is awesome news, as you know, making a weekly podcast is a lot of work, with many mouths to feed.So we are super grateful (no pun intended) that Australian Ethical have come on board to help us out with the bills for the next 10 weeks.We spent sometime looking AE up and down, sussing out their vibe, and we really liked the cut of their jib. They’ve been around for a long time helping people make good choices when it comes to investing ethically. Thank you Australian Ethical for your support.CheersDan IlicDeputy Senate Leader🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🐬  A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical Bronwen Morgan  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by Australian ethical. Hey, good evening, Lewis. Hello, Daniel.Lewis Hobba  0:05  How are you? Good, good.Dan Ilic  0:08  I'm just doing some stretches to get ready for the next 10 weeks of irrational.Lewis Hobba  0:12  It's so good to be back. I was just trying to think I know you've been squirreling away doing episodes without me, but I can't think of the last time I was on, like six months ago. So,Dan Ilic  0:23  I don't know. It must have been a bit at least three or four data breaches ago. I think.Lewis Hobba  0:30  I'm currently the victim of three separate data breaches.Dan Ilic  0:33  Hang on, are you a Medibank customer? Vina? A customer and an optics customer?Lewis Hobba  0:37  I'm a former Optus customer actually, no, my. No, I'm currently an optics customer. I am I was a Vito MoPhO customer. In fact, a real warning sign I had during the pandemic was when vino MoPhO the wine delivery company wrote me an email to inform me that I had now bought enough wine to justify my self as a VIP customer. And that was when I was like, oh, gotta stop this.Dan Ilic  1:02  That's that sounds like you're a VIP member at the RSL. And you don't have to go to that little room and play yeah,Lewis Hobba  1:08  I need that like facial recognition software that's tells me buying wine online. Also my deal, which was the other data breach, that's one of the Woolworths brands and I once bought some like dining chairs from them. So there is no data about me that you cannot buy for tuppenceDan Ilic  1:26  and I only know a whole bunch of stuff about you. I'm gonna go traveling and hire a car in your name. It does right that I'm excited about that. Louis, we have a brand new sponsor for rational fear strain ethical. We'll be hearing more about them a little later on. It's really exciting because it means Louis, you get paid.Lewis Hobba  1:42  That's some ethics I can get behind.Dan Ilic  1:45  I'm recording my end of a rational fee on Gadigal land into your nation's sovereignty was never seated. We did a treaty. Let's start the show.Simon Chilvers  1:52  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of a rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:05  Tonight Lydia thought resigns as Senate deputy leader after neglecting dimension she dated a bikie. The senator will now take up the role as Chair of the Joint Standing Committee for being cool. And the cost of stage three tax cuts has jumped $11 billion, which is just enough money to bribe your own government for some tax cuts. And in order to crack down on businessman falling out of windows. Russian CEOs are moving their offices to single storey buildings without windows or stairs or in Russia. It's October 21. And we've dropped our fossil fuel sponsors. This is irrational fear.Welcome to rational fear on your host former Deputy Senate Leader Daniel edge and this is the podcast that gives you the news but with a little bit of a tickle. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight is packing up his city life and he's moving to the country with his mum, but he's still bragging the big stories from regional Queensland from the Saturday paper it's Ricky Morton.Rick Morton  3:15  Wow, I'm gonna have to go into hiding now. It's a status intro I've everDan Ilic  3:23  the biggest regional Queensland story you're gonna be bring into the countryRick Morton  3:26  damn levels and whether we need at least 100 More, and also local councils. I think the time is ripe to get into some dodgy, dodgy local government.Dan Ilic  3:37  Oh, I'm excited about that DVM,Rick Morton  3:38  it's time for you to run for what is that it'stime for me to make the money.Dan Ilic  3:45  And according to a biography she has written about herself she has been described as manic unique, sharp, darkly funny and disarmingly beautiful. It's B by scholar. Welcome Bay.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  3:58  Hello. It's good to be back. You forgot to mention that the reason I'm disarmingly beautiful is because I'm secretly mixed race and that's like the most important part of it, obviously.Dan Ilic  4:07  Well, I was gonna ask you what's the secret to writing a great bio about yourself? And I think you've answered it.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  4:12  Yeah, I would say it's also five years of film school. That's definitelyRick Morton  4:17  five did you fail a few years? How do you do fine.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  4:21  I just I love hating myselfLewis Hobba  4:23  longer than it takes James Cameron to make an avatar movie.Dan Ilic  4:28  And in just under a week's time, our next guest will have his very own television show. But if you miss it, relax, there's only one episode. It's Louis Alba. Yes, well, it was why is there only one episode of your TV show?Rick Morton  4:43  Well, money Dan Money, money and the ABC not having anyDan Ilic  4:48  coming up a little later on what the hell is happening in UK politics UK comedian Athena Kulu will be joining us but first, a message from this week's sponsor.Rupert Degas  4:59  to outsiders The conservative party may look like it's a fucking Omni shambles. But to those of us on the inside, we're staying true to our promise to get Britain moving under the Tories, more British people than ever are moving to Europe. Thanks to the Conservative Party, the people of Britain are moving vigorously to keep warm, but the Conservatives are also walking the walk. As a party. We're all moving offices every day moving, moving, moving. In fact, there's so much movement at Downing Street. There's a shortage of movers. Even Prime Minister truss is looking at her poll numbers and having movements of her very own.Unknown Speaker  5:42  I am determined to deliverRupert Degas  5:46  the Conservative Party getting Britain moving figuratively. And literally.Dan Ilic  5:52  I don't think about UK politics. So yeah, who joke that does the job. This week's first fear we're calling it a bomb threat. Yes, the bomb doesn't want to be called the bomb anymore. In fact, earlier this week, they updated their style guide for the media telling everyone that the bomb would henceforth be only spoken about in media circles as the bureau which is dumb because no Australian can spell bureaux. As a result for about 48 hours the bomb was relentlessly mocked online being told by 1000s of Australians that you're not allowed to choose your own nickname. And now in order to give the bomb the best chance have never been called the bomb again. They've had to change schools. But we are lucky enough to be joined by a member of the bomb squad right here. Rick Morton broke part of this story this week. Rick, how much did it cost the bomb to pretend to give itself a zone nickname? Well, and theRick Morton  6:42  current figures $220,000 But I mean add on Saturday that is more than that.Dan Ilic  6:49  That a you that is a bombshell? Well,Rick Morton  6:53  it's a lot more than has been publicly reported. And it has been a lot more effort and resources put in behind the scenes all because the executive team felt a little bit embarrassing that they weren't being taken seriously enough. Because bomb is it's kind of like a tee to say no you must call me Mrs. Wimmer. Rather than Bob. It's soDan Ilic  7:13  strange. They feel I feel like they've done this to themselves that the Bureau of Meteorology has an app that says bomb their website says bomb their social media sites handle say bomb why make the changeRick Morton  7:23  to its ego, ego and status. And it's like you have a roomful of nerds. And you're trying to make yourself sound like you're some kind of like spy agency. It's like, except your role in law. That'sBea Barbeau-Scurla  7:35  the first thing I thought as well. When they said the bureau I was like, Okay, this isn't like the CIA or the FBI. What are you trying to do?Lewis Hobba  7:45  You're probably the only person in the country who could eat up the spelling, you can basically be Bureau schooler.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  7:52  Exactly, exactly. Maybe that I shouldn't change my name to bomb if it's free.Lewis Hobba  7:58  I do think like if meteorologists want to be taken more seriously, there are a couple of things they could do. First of all, the right more. Absolutely. That'd be great. The Bureau of constantly fucking it up at the moment. Stop letting other people wear vests. You know what I mean? You just get these dorks invest. Most were the people on Australian television. Our football is girlfriends or former comedians. Like, you are not a science that we take seriously. Yeah, your spokespeople are big foods.Dan Ilic  8:34  Louis, you've got a real good point there. I think you know, Phillip Neitzke should deliver the weather that I would take very seriously. If Dr. Das was telling me some hard truths about high pressure systems coming in from syphilis.Lewis Hobba  8:47  light showers with the chance of your dick falling off.Rick Morton  8:52  They also got a marketing research firm called EY sweetie to branch events, to do some sentiment analysis about you know what the mark this is back in March, what they actually understand, you know, how people relate to the Bureau of Meteorology. Everyone recognizes that as the Bureau of Meteorology at something like 51% know it as the bomb 15% recognize it as the bureau so like not even like they knew it. They knew it back in March, and they dodged a holethat I thought like I can't believe anyone calls with that. That's just the staff of the media.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  9:24  already converted.Dan Ilic  9:26  Now, Rick, I don't know if you can tell me if this is true or not this screenshots been going around. This is meant to be the consulting firm that was going to change the Bureau of Meteorology to the bomb. It's this. This is what the website looks like. It's a sentence with a picture of something. It's built on WordPress. It doesn't even have like contact details.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  9:45  Let us see. And in a pile of water,Rick Morton  9:48  yes. Yes, it is, actually. And it's the person who is was the sole trader of this company. The theeword is obsessed with the word see.Dan Ilic  9:59  It's called the Sea It's C word consultancy.Rick Morton  10:01  It is called the C word communications agency. Okay, so it's the C bomb essentially is what they brand change was already afoot, right. But they get this guy in as a consultant that he know works by the way for the Bureau of Meteorology as a senior communications manager. And he there's a blog that he wrote on LinkedIn. And for my sins. As a journalist, I do occasionally have to go on to LinkedIn, I had to pay $600 for a yearly subscription, just to be able to message people, because life is sad, and I need help. But he's got his blog on there. And it's like, you know, what have we achieved at the theeword? It's like, we've done creative collaboration with cool cats.Dan Ilic  10:47  Which is so funny like he does so why don't he rebrand the the bomb as a suit with a C word is they gotRick Morton  10:54  a look, I've got to be careful here. But they got the guy with potentially the worst brand in Australia to come in, advise the the sum of $30,000.Dan Ilic  11:06  Well, allegedly a lot more, according to your article that will be coming out on Saturday. Yes.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  11:12  But I do like wonder why they think the bomb is not serious enough. You know, like, if I hear the word bomb, you know, especially in an airport. It seriouslyLewis Hobba  11:29  must have been tough for them, because there would have been a time where they were like, alright, gang. Look, we need to find a time to release this report. And it's going to be tough, because we will need to find a time somewhere in the Australian weather landscape where things aren't so crazy that we can talk about the weather in a way that isn't intense. And over the last four years that is a very short window, but they couldn't have picked a worse worse time to release this information.Rick Morton  11:55  It is like wild and like tenure people take the minister's office had no idea they were going to announce it this week during major flooding when people have lost their lives. But also like this obsession, right and it's been years long but and so there's other words they don't like people using internally they haven't announced this publicly but the other words they don't like our forecasts for the meteorologists probably because they're not doing forecasts anymore. They don't like weather events because that sounds too heavy like an event. It's a celebration according to the internal people have. Yeah.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  12:26  Catastrophe then.Rick Morton  12:29  A weather happening a moment in timeBea Barbeau-Scurla  12:32  happening. Yeah, I'm not sure emmalin movieRick Morton  12:35  Oh my god. Yeah, the trees are killing us.Unknown Speaker  12:41  Some savvy social media users were very quick to snap to the handled using the accounts to slam bombs timing.Simon Chilvers  12:49  This is a rational fear.Dan Ilic  12:51  This week. Second fear is Sydney's nightlife coming back, Sydney is Australia's largest inhabited quiet carriage and has had locked down for lock downs. We're cool. Now after 10 years of early nights and clean Livi Sydney is staying up past its bedtime. That's a reference to something that happened in 2014. A new town bar has been granted a 4am license for the first time in 100 years. b Why is this significant? There's 4am license.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  13:17  I'm listen, I live in New Town and already the people coming in on Fridays and Saturdays causing a ruckus that I don't care forDan Ilic  13:29  this nimbyism to come from you.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  13:31  I'm kidding. No, I think it is like quite interesting that like kind of Newtown has become this like new hub and stuff. Because when I was 18, and stuff, it was like Kings Cross that was a place and then like six months later, lockout laws were introduced, you know, so it's kind of interesting in a way because they've just completely shifted all of the interest away from Kings Cross. Like still some of the bars there haven't recovered, but yet they're, you know, going to try and have this sort of perimeter for 4am licensing and I just wonder how that will change the whole vibe of NewtownDan Ilic  14:08  there's a whole there's a whole lot about this article. That seems a bit dodgy right first of all, the guy that granted the license, he has the title as the New South Wales 24 hour Commissioner, yet he's only granting a license beforehand. What about the other 20 hours?Bea Barbeau-Scurla  14:24  I thought that 24 hour Commissioner thing was so funny it was like it's kind of like this goal to like have Sydney's economy you know make money while we sleepLewis Hobba  14:35  as a kind of like hard partying Jack BauerDan Ilic  14:45  there's also no mention of where this bar is actually gonna be. They only kind of tell you it's between two streets which includes the train tracks. It's a very it's a very weird thing. And this This so called Fun area has been given the label by the New South Wales Government as as the late night management zone have come on down. It's gonna it's gonna revive the teachers will be like patrolling it with loud hailers. Like,Bea Barbeau-Scurla  15:14  it's giving the exact vibe of my mom saying, Hey, you can have your friends over, you can stay up late. But then as soon as 935 comes across, she's yelling at us from her balcony.Dan Ilic  15:26  The other thing I feel I find disconcerting about this story is the CEO kind of sounds like a serial killer. He's quite an understanding was saying, We've been looking for a basement space in Newtown for a really long time. Because it's perfect sound attenuation and lowers the risk of getting noise complaints from the residents, but there aren't many in this area. I think you stillBea Barbeau-Scurla  15:46  tell us where the basement is. SoLewis Hobba  15:48  that's why Jack bow has been hired. That'sRick Morton  15:52  why we need to flood new tab.Lewis Hobba  15:56  It is good though, because obviously when the lockout laws came in, and everyone got pushed out of the cross and sort of Paddington and Surry Hills and all those areas, the one place you could go of course was Star Casino. That a good haven't they done well haven't they been a beacon a shining light on the Hill best management theBea Barbeau-Scurla  16:17  best place to have some you know, some leg workouts because your feet really do be sticking to those floors.Dan Ilic  16:24  Oh my god, they did lose their license this week. But the New South Wales Government has graciously let them continue to trade business and I assume that means people still can leave their kids in the car with the windows down. I think that's what emotional fearUnknown Speaker  16:39  to the star casino has been found unsuitable to hold a New South Wales casino license, money laundering andUnknown Speaker  16:46  enticing peopleUnknown Speaker  16:48  to be armed nearly by gambling, organized prime linksDan Ilic  16:56  just stop with the program here to let you know that we have a brand new sponsor on a rational fee for the next 10 weeks I'm very excited about this Australian ethical is chipping in to pay the bills. And not only that, they kind of believe in stuff we believe in like your money is worth even more than you think it's because you can use it for a force for good. We've spoken about this in the podcast before when you move your money, you can make a positive impact. You can either be part of a system that is hurtling us towards our own destruction or we can invest in doing better and that's what Australian ethical is all about. So big thank you to Australian ethical for jumping on board and supporting a rational fear. For more information go to Australian ethical.com today Yeah. This week's third fear watching UK politics for the last week it's been like trying to catch up on a sci fi TV show you've missed a couple of seasons of the baddies is still in charge but all the characters have kind of changed you kind of don't know where the story is at. Joining us now to shed light on what the hell is happening over there is satirical comedian star of McTell week hosted the DMS are open podcast on radio for extra and a cracking Twitter feed. It's Athena Coupland, welcome to Siena.Athena Kugblenu  18:02  Thank you for having me. How are you?Dan Ilic  18:04  Good, good, you know, full full kind of disclosure. Rick suggested this story. We all looked at. We all looked at each other. And we're like, none of us know what is actually happening. We need an expert What the hell is happening over there in the UK?Athena Kugblenu  18:20  The fact you've called me tells me how desperately important you are. The last I mean know even the politicians themselves that said last night they had a vote and you might not be aware but like in Parliament, when you have a vote you either vote on the issue or when your party is in crisis. You vote senators tentative vote on the party. That makes sense. So last night, they were going Do you like fracking or not but it because the party was in such disarray? The break was going to turn into do like the conservatives or not basically this is a bit Fisher Price politics. Right. SoDan Ilic  18:52  seriously, looking at your political system, it's like looking at Harry Potter. Like we didn'tAthena Kugblenu  18:57  just say like, fracking is like a really important issue. Like it causes earthquakes, right? Yeah. No, that's not as important as Do you like me or not? Like, how is that?Bea Barbeau-Scurla  19:08  The equivalent? Yeah, it feels like a twist in like a reality TV show. You know, like, you know, you thought it was gonna be about fracking.Rick Morton  19:17  This tastes disgusting when they putAthena Kugblenu  19:18  in a contestant that's been evicted. So like. So genuinely, the politicians didn't know if they were voting for fracking, or for the party this morning. I was trying to find out what was it about in any case, they ended up voting for earthquakes because earthquake because we weren't on a top line. And it's not fair. When you own a city on a fault line, you get you know, you get quakes. And so why don't we Why don't we create a natural disaster so we can be on the news today? I mean, we're just not on the news.Rick Morton  19:51  You've got a natural disaster though. It's the Tory party.Dan Ilic  19:58  You know, The fracking here is how ITV said what went down last night.Unknown Speaker  20:11  It has been a night of astonishing scenes at Westminster with reports of jostling men handling bullying and shouting outside the parliamentary lobbies. In a suppose vote of confidence in the government. The deputy chief whip was reported to have left the scene saying, I'm absolutely effing furious. I just don't effing care anymore before he resigned along with the chief whip, but we've just been told they have now officially on resigned. The Home Secretary has however definitely got insurance. It is total absolute abject chaos.Athena Kugblenu  20:49  So this was that was supposedly your vote on whether or not the parties have voted, lose trust, let's just risk the vote. To even vote on herself. First of all, it was she wants fracking she picks it since he thinks it's important right into security. So she missed the boat on fracking.Dan Ilic  21:08  That's why she missed it. She was she was pumping gas into the ground. She was busy fracking data number 10. Yeah,Athena Kugblenu  21:15  so she missed that I wrote to say that I like me too. SoRick Morton  21:18  this is why this is why I chose this subject because I don't know anything about it. But I do know that it's very funny. And also I see a lot of myself in live traps like she'sunderstand how money works or marketright? I do love I love that like ITV at the at the end that like because my brain is working in like a music and radio station when I hear like total abject chaos with that thing underneath. I'm just waiting for like a dubstep drop to kick in.Bea Barbeau-Scurla  22:00  Reporters they seem to always have like such a sense of urgency that you could absolutely remix it and make it a sick club mix. LikeAthena Kugblenu  22:11  I'm surprised it hasn't been done already. To be honest. And you have to do these. That's the reason why these things happen so they can go viral on the internet. That's what I think to be fair, I do think I'm being a bit cynical. I do think though they're ramping it up a bit. Just a little clip of them going crazy can go viral, because the good thing about this chaos is it was it's been chaotic for about four weeks. What we've got now if you've got pictures of MPs Ave Argy bargy in Parliament, but this has been this is the status has been the status quo. You know, this is not this is not this last night in many ways was unremarkable. It was just it was just funny because he wrote in Parliament you don't have bits to pay for you literally you vote with your body you go through a yes chamber or no chambers it's really youDan Ilic  22:52  don't you don't have a buttonAthena Kugblenu  22:58  so that's all happening wasDan Ilic  23:04  please don't please don't think this is fisher price because we have literally no ideaAthena Kugblenu  23:10  it's incredible so the chief whip said the chief whip says it's their job to get people to vote the quote unquote right way to vote with us not against us. But because you're not going to get paid for you have to physically move people into the right chamber right. So what was happening last night it was they were literally getting them by the next and or whatever. Like apparently there was a bit people were like saying it was like brilliant. Like they wereRick Morton  23:31  like apparently, Jacob Riis. Mog was one of the people manhandling which is like a noodle closet.Athena Kugblenu  23:40  If you let Jacob Riis, mog bad habit you get yourself to help still get some iron supplements. Protein shakes. You are withering away the cost of living crisis to doing something because Jacob Riis, mog makes us do it. She came home from school we said I'm being bullied and they've put in a kid and they're taking these Rob I would kick them out of the houseRick Morton  24:11  and being bullied by like one of those car yard likeDan Ilic  24:15  the inflatable. I love this loan from the chancellor Jeremy Hunt. He told a meeting of colleagues on Wednesday he said according to someone in the room, this is what Jeremy Hunt said this would be really interesting shit if I wasn't in the middle of itAthena Kugblenu  24:29  fundamentally, basically is because there's an Elisa that has no authority when she says jump they all sit down and pick their noses. And when when they do what she says the markets go What the hell are you doing? You're crazy. So they're in a weird place where they can't do what they've been told because what they've been told is horrendous but not doing what they're told the government can't function and so that's what we're saying we want general election which is horrible because no one likes elections. They're just horrible. You tell them the TV listen slow mo the child crying or whatever some would get it because video you It's just sort of very boring. I think we should just get the formality of a general election. And we should just just edit a coup, but in my schoolRick Morton  25:08  we're just going for monarchy like now you've got the king.Athena Kugblenu  25:15  I mean, you know, I mean for the crack I mean,Dan Ilic  25:19  what about a reverse Monica, you could have our prime minister roll over you. It'd be great.Athena Kugblenu  25:24  Yeah. Your new ones Nice. We'd like that doRick Morton  25:28  Undercover Boss but just to you know, live trust.Athena Kugblenu  25:34  You know, like a school exchange student trips, and you go to France to stay with the family. And they stay with you. Let's do an exchange.Dan Ilic  25:43  Right? Yeah. I don't think we want Miss dress.Rick Morton  25:45  It's such fun drama. It's real, like keeping up with aquatint Ian's energyAthena Kugblenu  25:58  you foresee like it was it just about work? It's very interesting. What's happened now is because and what people are forgetting is it. Boris Johnson two years ago, kicked all the reasonably smart people out of the cabinet because they were not on board this Brexit plan at all. If you're not with me or against me, and you fill this cabinet with idiots, I mean, I don't use that word lightly. He was he first came out with people who probably weren't very skilled at what they did. And that's a one by one we've lost anyone with a semblance of common sense. And now we're left with people who just like walking around and saying I'm important. And then you ask them to do something and they can't do anything because they're thick. And there's no one and no one in the backbench who might be good at it been in the cabinet wants to serve in it. So that's been run out of options. Yes, yeah. Read a book and get smart but that's not going to happen.Rick Morton  26:48  Well, that takes time and your energy crisisDan Ilic  26:52  there's a real problem with the conservative party among many others, but you know, our conservative party date basically roll Prime Ministers whenever they want. They're like let's get rid of this guy. Next week. The next person in line we've had enough of this person but the UK Conservative Party has to wait 12 months before they can ever party motion to wrong someoneAthena Kugblenu  27:11  you know something all of these things mean nothing. They really do mean nothing. They just they say that they'll just change the rules they'll change the rules and I hope they I hope they do because it's because nobody wants to talk for months. I won't lie right now looking for wind up torches. I'm telling you when you power power they're gonna they prepared with the press releases and the news bulletins say you're in the dark sorry about that or whatever. So IDan Ilic  27:37  can recommend anything. It would be a solar foldout solar panel that you can charge in the UK it climate change is bringing trust down and climate change is bringing this podcast down.Rick Morton  27:53  It really was just leaves holding you all together, wasn't it?Athena Kugblenu  27:59  The crazy thing so we got rid of Boris that can it not? It can't get any worse. And now people are saying we need both shots of back. It's it's sort of it's sort of it for now.Rick Morton  28:07  I even heard Theresa Mays name resurfacedAthena Kugblenu  28:11  where everybody Rolf Harris I think he's gotDan Ilic  28:28  some, allegedly, Rick,Athena Kugblenu  28:31  I'm aware of what he did. But he was just because I don't know why he was on my mind. I regret saying that. Were just shuffling cards. It's like, we're just Oh, no, no, no. Like, there's nobody, and I don't I don't think we should get someone who's done it before. Because we've got rid of them for a reason. You know, it's like so I think you're an ex back and then you get back and it's like, oh, you're an asshole like so we just need a fresh start clean slate. It's like Eat Pray Love. Did everything we need to go away?Rick Morton  29:05  Spain, but you can't do that easily. Yeah.Dan Ilic  29:09  Well, it's been a good luck. And if you get stuck for solar panel, come to Australia. We'd love to have you here. Oh,Athena Kugblenu  29:14  I'll tell you. I'm gonna go I'm coming right now.Dan Ilic  29:19  Oh, look, this is viral clip that keeps going surfacing every now and then whenever Jeremy hunts name comes up. It is fantastic. is a compilation of people miss pronunciate. Oh. It's a couple of people not pronouncing Jeremy hunts name correctly.Rupert Degas  29:34  Well, first up after the news we're going to be talking to Jeremy come and hunt the culture Secretary AbedUnknown Speaker  29:39  and the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt. Jeremy Hunt is also expected to apologize circumstancesUnknown Speaker  29:43  change Mr. Kent Mr. Hunter. Jeremy counter cute. Jeremy Hunt. Secretary Jeremy Hunt says he's the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt as described. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt according to theRick Morton  29:58  Health Secretary Jeremy Taylor. said the NHS friendsUnknown Speaker  30:03  looking after the health serviceUnknown Speaker  30:04  somebody somewhere in government perhaps Jeremy Kent the the Jeremy I'm not gonna pronounce his surname because I might mispronounce it deliberately.Dan Ilic  30:21  Just comedy, just comedy. I love that. Hey, I seen it. Thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear and that is it for rational fear big thank you to be Rick Cena and Louis. Let's do our plugs. And he could do you have anything to plug bait?Bea Barbeau-Scurla  30:35  Oh, just follow me on Instagram. I gotta get that clown. That Queen bay with a K W E N underscore B EA it's the most confusing way to spell it.Dan Ilic  30:48  We'll pop it in the show notes. Rick Morton, you've got a fantastic new substackRick Morton  30:52  Oh, yeah, I joined I joined the crew. So I've got a sub that could nervous laughter which is basically how I go through life. It's good. You should read it.Dan Ilic  31:01  Yeah. Oh, subscribe. Louis harbor. Are you you plug in your TV show?Rick Morton  31:05  I am Yeah, I thought I finally have something to plug other than my dumb radio show. I have a television show. Coming to the ABC on Thursday night. It's called Australia's best competition competition. It is where I enter a bunch of weird competitions around the country with my friend comedian Michael hing and and then we rank them and we find the best competition in Australia and it's really funny and I broke my knee doing it soDan Ilic  31:33  medical bills to pay Yeah. I seen a cuckooAthena Kugblenu  31:38  What would you like to blog Oh, just my just my Instagram and my Twitter. And the fact that you guys want that Rachel itself doesn't mind.Dan Ilic  31:48  Big thanks to rode mics our new sponsor Australian ethical Thank you Australian ethical Jacob round on the Tepanyaki timeline. Our new patreon supporters Michelle Brian, Mac Benny drew mayo, Anthony Bell dune and Gabby bolt has also become a patreon supporter. They're gonna be about became a Patreon supporter because she realized the opera house show she was in for rational fear is actually behind the paywall on the Patreon she wanted to hear. So if you missed out on the Sydney Opera House show, head over to Patreon you can become a member and listen to that show. Until next time, there's always something to be scared of byUnknown Speaker  32:23  it is total, absolute abject.Unknown Speaker  32:28  I have been in office for just under two months. I am aUnknown Speaker  32:35  I just don't care anymore object.Simon Chilvers  32:40  This is a rational view. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/We’re gearing up for a big 10-week season of weekly A Rational Fear Podcasts — but before we hit full steam, enjoy this chat with one of Australia's most prominent satirical broadcasters. From ABC's The Weekly: Charlie Pickering.We also speak with NASA Scientist and Climate Activist: Peter KalmusThis is a big discussion about civil disobedience and what actions may or may not work when it comes to shaking up the narrative of climate action. Dan also pushes Charlie on how he covers climate, and his thoughts on reaching the ABC audience.Leave us a review here: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/  Dan Ilic  0:00  G'day, welcome to A Rational Fear, another special episode of A Rational Fear light as I call it's not the full A Rational Fear. It's just a slimmed down version that is the least amount of effort to make to maintain your Patreon support. That's all it is. That's what we're doing. And we've got a great guest, Charlie Pickering needs no introduction, but I'll give you one in a second. Anyway, here we go. I'm recording my end of A Rational Fear on Gadigal Land of the Eora Nation. sovereignty with never ceaded, we need a treaty. Let's startSimon Chilvers  0:29  the show. A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, and gum and section 40 of our A Rational Fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  0:43  Tonight the CEO of Star City casino says that even though the casino license has been revoked, customers will still be allowed to leave their kids in their car unsupervised. And Kanye West agrees to buy in principle, Paula and I agree in principle to not buy anything from Kanye West. And in a shocking misstep, Scott Morrison has signed up to a speaker's bureau initially wanted to sign up to a meandering rant bureau. Instead, it's the 19th of October. And this is A Rational FearWelcome to A Rational Fear I'm your host, former president of China, Dan Xi Ping and joining us onA Rational Fear light is the host of Foxtel's The Mansion it is Charlie Pickering.Charlie Pickering  1:39  That's great. It's great that some remember by someDan Ilic  1:42  people that worked on the show is of that show? Yeah, it was great. Don't Charlie, one of the best moments in show business in my life. I was having lunch with you in Manly one day, and you saying, Hey, man, I've got a show coming up. Do you want to come and work on it? And I'm like, yeah, that's my chili peppers, my cherry picker impression.Charlie Pickering  2:02  It's pretty accurate. It's prettyDan Ilic  2:04  good. Don't often I don't often doCharlie Pickering  2:09  more of them come and beDan Ilic  2:13  waiting here by chamber impression. It's great. Yeah, I don't often do my impressions to the people who do the impressions ofCharlie Pickering  2:20  it shows extreme confidence when that's your absolute confidence with an impression used to do it to the person.Dan Ilic  2:27  I did do my Andrew Denton impression to him at a rap party once on the microphone. And it was it went down. Well, I think Andrew was like, that doesn't? That doesn't sound like me at all. What do you what do you try it? Like? Why are you implying that I make people cry? Yeah. Hey, thanks for joining us on irrational fear. Charlie. I really appreciate I've been meaning to get you on for a long time. But you, you know, one of the busiest man in showbiz. You're like the James Brown of Australian comedy showbiz.Charlie Pickering  2:55  Hopefully, you're talking purely about work ethic and notDan Ilic  2:58  talking about your work. busiest man in China,Charlie Pickering  3:01  yes, well, I think I've done I've done very well to cultivate the image of busyness. And I think that's been probably the greatest achievement of my career. So far. Everyone thinks that I've got a lot onDan Ilic  3:12  Yeah, tell us easier. It's perception at a distance, you've done a great job. That's right. I kind of wanted to get you on because you're, you're always thinking about the big issues, and you kind of have to as a person who runs a inflammation refinery that is the weekly. And with a lot of the civil disobedience stuff that's been happening around climate, I thought it might be good to have a little chat with you about about your thoughts on it, and how, as someone who runs an inflammation distillery, the weekly, how you go about covering climate, like, you know, the weekly has been on for so many years now. And you've covered it in so many ways. How, let me ask you, first of all, how do you think about approaching climate stories, because it's a story that just keeps on going? I don'tCharlie Pickering  3:55  think we do it a lot. Because we do it with a philosophy of, we want to change minds that need to be changed. And if you actually wade into every single argument about climate change, based on every rhetorical thing that a conservative politician has said, or every single story that enters the news, you scream about it. People will stop listening to you and you end up changing no minds at all people stay in their positions. And it's it's funny, I've always tried to find unique arguments against the prevailing rhetoric of the conservative side of the climate change argument, I'd say conservative, it's not as the opposite of conservative because it's destructive. Like it's not conserving anything. But you know, the more fossil fuel driven side of the the, the political debate, and so the yardstick we measure our stuff by is Could someone with an open mind, have their mind made up by this, or are we just preaching to the choir voted and driving away the converted.Dan Ilic  5:02  Are we at a point now in in climate discourse where that feels like a, I feel like that's a eight year old argument. And right now you as someone with a platform on the ABC, and you might not be changing the mind of the 65 year old demographic who watches the ABC, but you have this enormous platform to change the minds of people who are actually in power to actually inform an electorate in a way that can pressure them to put pressure on the government to do more to, you know,Charlie Pickering  5:29  push it. It's interesting that you say that, because if you have a look at the last federal election, in Australia, and this is all through an Australian lens, the threat to the conservative power base was less what labour said or the green said, and more about the fact that the penny dropped in places like KU Yan, that that one of their priorities was climate change. And they affected an electoral change. Now, I live just down the road from Google. And I know those people will. And I know that screaming at them was never going to make up their mind that but a rational argument, and an irrational understanding of things is what made them prioritize climate change at the ballot box. Yeah. And it's, it's just interesting, it's just a matter of approach because I'll be really honest, I know my demographic at the ABC. They're not on tick tock. You know, what, around 1% of my viewing audiences on Twitter 1%,Dan Ilic  6:33  that's it. Yeah.Charlie Pickering  6:34  I mean, or at least that was what I was told, when I started the network. And they said, Hey, don't worry about what people are saying about you on Twitter. But if we're going to survive this, and if we're going to make the changes, we need to as a society, I think it's a multi pronged approach. And I think it's understanding where your audience is, and what changes you can affect in that audience. Now, I don't know how you get on truth, social, and convince them that climate change is real. But I've got a pretty good instinct for the the television audience of the national broadcaster. And the fact that maybe it's not about making someone believe that climate change is real. But maybe it's it's been about convincing people that climate change has to move up their list of electoral priorities and determine what they do at the ballot box. And I think to candidates being elected, has been one of those things that has taken climate action into the realm of actual possibility.Dan Ilic  7:41  Yeah, I agree with you there. And that's something our audience knows a lot about. We've been closely following those campaigns for two years. Now. What about you know, when you're holding when you've got this platform? Do you? Do you consider yourself a part of journalism, in a sense to hold governments to account to do more on action on climate? Dude, do you have that perspective?Charlie Pickering  8:04  I do. But more than that, I feel that I have an opportunity to hold media to account. Because a lot of the way my show works, and to be honest, it's the technical comedy construction that the Daily Show achieved. And we've all kind of followed that path of taking all the clips that are on all the TV and telling the story based on what people are seeing on TV. And so for me, you can get at a you can get a good rhetorical argument rather than being angry, say at a Conservative government for being in a pocket of fossil fuels, which there is no surprise to that. And no joke I can come up with about it is new. But picking on Kashi on breakfast TV, for yelling at climate protesters that stop traffic for 15 minutes, and showing how he's actually the unreasonable one in the conversation. That, for me is more fertile ground. Now admittedly, the ABC audience don't need to be told that Kashi isn't the barometer of intelligent conversation. ButDan Ilic  9:14  by using media to tell the story, you actually have a shortcut to the audience because the audience knows what you're talking about because the audience is engrossed in that space as well.Charlie Pickering  9:23  That's right. I think the media has to change as much as governments need to change. Well, I know myself, crikey, Barnaby Joyce came on my show to sell a book and suffered through the most excruciating interview of his political career. And he's had some doozies. Right. And that taught me that politicians need the media probably more than the media needs politician, head ofDan Ilic  9:49  the weather board and iron ore the Winterboard nine go by the way, it books out do we know?Charlie Pickering  9:55  I'm not sure how it's sold. But I will say most of the conversation was more about His family situation, that his his particularly moving memoir. So what what I think is important there is if you can change what is normal in the media, you then change the way that politicians have to interact with the media. And so I think there is there is benefit to holding the media to account as much as you hold politicians to account. Because the media at the end of the day lasts longer than governments. They shape things over a longer period of time. They are if you're angry that politicians are in the pocket of donors, or TV networks, or in the pockets of sponsors far more than you'd like. And they're open about it. Like they will invent a TV show with cold supermarkets once you do invent a TV showDan Ilic  10:44  I've seen on the block recently, like them putting gas the episodes without putting gas in the kitchen, and then it cuts through an ad for green gas.Charlie Pickering  10:54  Yeah. And it's Yeah, which is once again, I mean, we need to have a stern chat with the team at the block of moving away from guests as well. I believe that the problem is so big and so urgent. And the consequences are so dire. It takes a really multi pronged approach to shifting the needle and into to actually changing mindsets over time. And it's interesting at my school, there's a parents group that they have discussions about climate change, and how to talk about climate change with family members who perhaps don't consider it that much of a priority. And that's a very different thing to me picking on Kashi, which is different to someone supergluing their hand to the road, or throwing soup on a Van Gogh, it's all part of the same picture, which is getting the consciousness of the world to move far enough that we can we can actually save the day.Dan Ilic  11:50  What do climate protesters have to do to cut through to the mainstream? Who What do they need to glue their hand to to really capture Australia's attention? Is there a painting with us with that people will pay attention to in Australia a set Nolan backups?Charlie Pickering  12:04  I was gonna say Sydney No, that is Ned Kelly is probably, you know, you could throw spaghetti at a Brett Whiteley. He could throw spaghetti at a pro heart. No one had noticed. But um, um, but it's, it's like. So here's the thing. I'm not 100% Convinced that throwing soup on a Van Gogh achieves much beyond being in the news bulletin that night or being a clip on Twitter. Now, that might not be the most popular opinion. But I know that my parents would never look at that and go, do you know what I really think I need to have a think about climate change. I think the protests that have been the most persuasive have been, I think the mass protests with parents and kids and you know, multigenerational peaceful street protests that get more probably more minutes or the same number of minutes on the news. But what they show is an image of regular people, families, multi generations, and hopefully people that look like the viewer concerned enough about this to get out and spend their time and effort marching? I know, that's just one form of protest. But I still find that the most persuasive I still think the peaceful civil rights marches of the 60s, were the most persuasive. Not that I think they necessarily achieved the end of the Confederacy. You know, I think we're, you know, I think it was Fran Lebowitz, who said, I'm sick of all these articles about, we need to find out what Trump voters want. She said, we know what they want, they want the fucking Confederacy. Let's stop listening to it. But um, I do think that there's lots of different forms of protest. I think the ones that interests me the most are the ones that actually persuade people to change their priorities. Well, I know that my parents would see someone throw soup on a Van Gogh, and think I'm not going to listen to their position. Now, my parents are older. But I don't think you have to convince that many people under 30 that climate change is real and we need to do something serious about itDan Ilic  14:19  do XR, protesters need to throw soup on David Koch. Is this what you're saying?Charlie Pickering  14:24  I mean, I think of more soup on cash policy across the board. He's probably wise. And he'd love it. It's zany. It's wacky. It's a fun way to start the day. I don't know I guess. I've taken an approach in my broadcast career, to try to speak to the broader like the largest number of people I can and hopefully change minds because because I actually think the audience that I have with the ABC is a really important one. It's like Gen X and above. And let's be honest Gen X and above the one ones keeping the old way of doing things in the game. And you have to convince them to let go, you know, like the tail independents, and all of that. You have to convince them to shift their priorities in some way. Now, Gen X is hard because they've got young kids at the moment, and they're under slept. And it's hard for them to care about anything except getting to bed. But I do think, and it's not pretty, and it's not spectacular in their own photos of it. But it's that changing in priorities of people that I think is, is really important. And so it's funny, I've found I think, Greta tunberg is persuasive to those people beyond the right wing commentariat. I don't think anyone actually, I think I think most people are inspired by Greta tunberg. And a young person being that organized and responsible and articulate about something so important. And it's funny. The reason I think she's really persuasive is a bunch of people of the age and demographic that you need to convince go on. That's like my daughter, but my daughter's never organized a global climate protest. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. You know, there's a girl at my daughter's school who can play the flute without reading the music. I thought that was impressive. But now look at what Greta tunberg parental competitiveness,Dan Ilic  16:21  you see what you could be doing, Jenny, you could be out there glaring at Donald Trump. But here you are playing Minecraft. I totally agree with you. I think young folks are so inspiring in this conversation. And we have our own in Australia, like Anjali Sharma, also, Jean Hinchcliffe and those young school strikes strike. It's just so inspiring and so articulate. It's one of those things where I go, well, they may not be a person that has power, like literal power, but they have a certain level of soft power that they can use, and they're using it with great effect. I think Anjali Sharma is on q&a this week. And that's so great. She's such an incredible, incredible voice, incredibly well read, credibly well spoken and just absolutely destroys people in her wake.Charlie Pickering  17:11  But in the interest of balance, we also have to find a persuasive barrel of oil to speak against.Dan Ilic  17:20  The sad thing about Kayla bond is it and now he's a middle aged man that he can no longer be the voice of young consider young conservatives.Charlie Pickering  17:28  Yeah, I'm not sure if there is a rebrand available to the young conservative movement that will that will capture enough numbers to shift the needle, you know,Dan Ilic  17:38  well, Charlie, you have very interesting thoughts. As a high and mighty TV host sitting in your ivory tower, the AVC pontificating about how the best this actually works in the ground in theory, but what if I told you we're about to speak with someone who does it for real, and is actually a NASA scientist,Charlie Pickering  17:59  then I would withdraw everything I've said up until now.Dan Ilic  18:02  Well, I'm very excited to have Peter columnist on the show. He is a climate scientist. He's worked at NASA. He is a bit of a master when it comes to civil disobedience and climate hate. You have done incredible work in your own space, not only as a climate scientist, but as an activist trying to raise attention for the climate emergency. What we're seeing now seems to be this incredible momentum of more people acting out in civil kind of in in civil society. But there's been so much kind of interesting conversation around whether it's appropriate or not. So, Peter, is it right to be civilly disobedient? Is this correct?Peter Kalmus  18:41  Yeah, for me, it's common sense to fight as hard as I can for this planet. I mean, everything. food, air, water, like kids, friends, everything I love. Beautiful ecosystems depends on this planet being healthy. And I've been fighting for 16 years before I tried civil disobedience. And you know, there was a little motion in the movement over that time, especially once some Greta and the youth started doing climate strikes, but it's going to slow as a climate scientist I am. It's cold read, I am desperate. So I am desperate. And then when I did civil disobedience is very mild form of civil disobedience. So I want to push back against this notion that I'm somehow like the king. It was pretty low risk. You know, I'm a white guy. I just changed myself to a door. You know, 100 cops showed up in riot gear, we have to go viral. I gave a really impassioned speech for speech in the heart that I hadn't prepared at all in advance. I just was saying what I was feeling and that helped to go viral too. So it's really important when doing these acts, if you can speak with your genuine emotions, just be authentically you and get a camera on you while you're in a middle of the action. That can be really really powerful. But yeah, it's the the outcome of the civil disobedience was like a million times more impactful than any thing I tried before I tried civil disobedience. So to me, it's really clear that the movement should keep doing it. We don't need every single person on the movement doing civil disobedience, we could use a damn sight more than, but we do need more civil disobedience. And we need a lot of advocates, you know, activists who aren't necessarily putting themselves at great risk, but they are going into board meetings, and they're speaking out and they're speaking truth to power, and they're maybe risking their jobs a little bit to tell the truth about the climate emergency. And, you know, we can't we're not going to carbon offset our way out of this.Dan Ilic  20:30  There's this incredible kind of pushback from people saying you shouldn't pour soup over Van Gogh's. But it seems to be that this kind of civil disobedience is really cutting through with with a large bunch of, of media all around the world, we've seen so many people going up to artworks gluing their hands to them, kind of being in the being in front of things that people love, it seems that that is like a real key way to kind of cut through and get a headline. Whereas Pete, we've we've kind of been ignoring this, this essential part of the of the discourse in kind of climate activism, do you see that as a reasonable way of protesting,Peter Kalmus  21:09  solving climate change, it's going to take radical change at almost every level of society, because our entire society runs on burning fossil fuels, things are going to have to get a little bit impolite. And if you're clutching pearls, just because a couple of teenagers throw some soup at a painting and don't even damage it one bit. If that's like your level of like, that's all you can take that I think that reveals that you have a real problem, honestly. So yeah, things are gonna get real on the climate movement, a lot of stuffs not gonna get good, not going to be popular. But maybe people should take their anger at the world leaders who haven't been doing jack shit and the fossil fuel industry, which is what's causing this because they're taking fossil fuel money. So don't direct the anger, the activist direct to world leaders who are destroying our planet.Dan Ilic  21:57  I think it's so interesting. Like in Australia, there have been some laws passed recently where you can go to jail for two years for interrupting the infrastructure that moves fossil fuels. And so people are moving away from people are very heavily discouraged from doing that kind of civil disobedience. So moving into the galleries and into, you know, lauded spaces where beautiful works of art, to, to glue their hands to a Picasso is this new expression of the same thing, which probably generates so much more headlines, but like we've seen in Australia, the people who have done that have actually been charged with anything, do you think we'll see more civil disobedience in places where well around things that people are actually in love with rather than infrastructure moving fossil fuels?Peter Kalmus  22:45  That's a great question. I don't really know where the movements gonna go. But I know, one thing I've learned over 16 years of doing climate activism is that the movement does move, like it's actually a very good word for what it is because it never stays still. It's constantly evolving in response to sort of like where the culture is at, right? And it's got to constantly be pushing the limits of social norms. But yeah, you can't if you do civil disobedience, in jail, and not a single person knows about it. You've basically wasted your you have these like cards, you can play these, he's risking actions you can take, well, you got a certain number of arrests that you can play, and you don't want to waste him. So you have to people do have to know about it. So So yeah, people say, Oh, it's a media stunt. And those are the trolls that are trying to discredit the activist, but that's just the way it works. You You know, if an activist falls and gets put into handcuffs, and no one hears it, did it really happen? As far as changing? As far as social impact? It absolutely did not happen. So we do need media.Charlie Pickering  23:54  So Peter, can I ask you, because I'll say that my response to for what desperate one of a better term attacks on paintings, but I feel conflicted in the in the way that it makes me feel when I see it. I understand that you get media attention when you throw spaghetti at a painting. But I wonder if you actually achieve a change in people's understanding or a change in people's outlook for those people that, you know, they do their recycling, and they think they're contributing, you know, the people in the middle that aren't really paying attention to it properly yet. I understand you might get on the news a lot. But do you actually change any minds?Peter Kalmus  24:39  That's a great, great question. I admit, when I first saw the action, I was I was actually young, and I couldn't really I was so busy that I couldn't tweet for many hours. And when I first saw it, I was shocked as well. And I was like, I wonder how this is gonna play out. And then I saw the comments and they were all like, 99% of them were really negative, but somehow Over the course of the day, I was thinking about it. And I came to the conclusion that it was actually a pretty brilliant action. And I think that it's too early to say, I could be completely wrong about that. And a lot of people are telling me, I'm completely wrong about that. But that's my instinct. And so far in this movement, my instinct has been pretty good. You have to understand that action in the broader context of the movement. And you have to understand how the media has been holding back the movement and how it's been holding back climate action, what you need to, I think what's gonna start happening, and this action in the context of many other actions, well, it's they're all chipping away at media narrative. And the media narrative has to understand the truth, which is that these are young people that are terrified for their lives. They're terrified for their future. And they're trying their best to let that message get out to the public. But they don't always know how to do it. And they're trying this. They're trying that maybe something doesn't go on the news at all. Maybe something does go on the news for every civil disobedience act by 20, something that you hear about, there's probably 1000 That you didn't hear about.Dan Ilic  26:05  They're like velociraptors, in a cage, testing out the fence to find the weakest part of the fence is this, what is this what I'm hearing?Peter Kalmus  26:14  I wish I wish they had that much politics. And I think we're telling the story, like it's a genuine emergency, and we're not sure how to get that to happen. There's a very small minority of us, I think that fully appreciate what an emergency that we're really in. And you're right, the moderates, the people who think that you know, recycling is kind of enough, maybe they buy an electric vehicle. It's not clear how so basically the in their minds, the narrative that they have, it's very comfortable narrative, right? That they basically don't have to change their way of lives that they're not going to have to give anything up. Business as usual can continue. And we'll just put up a few solar panels by have a few more EVs recycle a little bit harder, and everything's gonna be fine. I don't think the climate science justifies that viewpoint. I think that we look at the flooding in Pakistan, a third of the country underwater, I'm really worried that we're going to start seeing what you could call mega heat waves, you know, where maybe 100,000 People die in one Heatwave, maybe even more than that, you have to understand that these trends are going up year on year, all of these trends in their system that should be flat, like temperatures, they're going up every single year. So he so it's not like, you know, some some scientists, really popular ones used to say this is the new normal. And I that used to drive me crazy. So I pushed against that because it's not the new normal. We haven't like gone to a worse place. And we're sitting there now if it's worse place. It's like an escalator to a hellish earth that we're on. And I don't think the public understands those the nature of those trends and the nature of irreversibility of this yet, I've been trying to get them understand that for 16 years. Civil disobedience isn't perfect. Some people hate us for it. I think those people are probably the people that weren't really going to be there. We're going to be holding back things, no matter what is what I'm thinking. So and it's gonna play out withDan Ilic  28:05  Pete as an artist, I have to say, loosely, calling comic comedy and art, as an artist have to say, well, you know, Van Gogh's dead, what does he care? You know, he's gone. He's already got the headlines, you know, there's plenty of scans of that painting somewhere else. Pete, thank you so much for joining us on A Rational Fear. Really appreciate your time. I know you only had a few minutes to join us. ThankUnknown Speaker  28:24  you so much. Great to meet you, Charlie. Always good to talk toUnknown Speaker  28:26  you. Great to meet you, Peter.Unknown Speaker  28:28  Well, Charlie, Wasn't it great to talk with Peter commerce?Unknown Speaker  28:30  Absolutely. And actually a lot of food for thought. It's interesting. I'd love to hear what Kashi has to say to.Dan Ilic  28:41  Charlie, thanks for joining us on A Rational Fear. I'm sorry, it's taken so long to get you on the show. And that I did have the appropriate mug that I stole from, from a from a Sydney office of the of the ABC with the weekly it's it's it's it's one of my high prize to show Bismark I'm so touched.Charlie Pickering  28:56  I'm so sorry that that I've only got my best dead ever mug which my wife made featuring Art Garfunkel and that's lovely. That's fantastic. It's a pretty great. My wife and I make, like get mugs made for each other quite regularly. But that's an absolute cracker.Dan Ilic  29:18  Do you identify as a member of Gen X? Yeah, I do. Thank you for taking time out of your busy parenting schedule to join us. You haveCharlie Pickering  29:29  no idea. It's um, yeah, it's it's not easy. The struggle is real.Dan Ilic  29:36  Thanks, Charlie. Hey, thanks, Dan. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/We’re gearing up for a big 10-week season of weekly A Rational Fear Podcasts — but before we hit full steam, enjoy this chat with the very smart and curious Sarah Wilson in a new ARF format called A Rational Fear Lite.This week on the pod:🤑 The Alex Jones $1bn Verdict.🦾 No one at Meta wants to use the Metaverse. Great piece from The Verge🕴️The 10 year anniversary of the Julia Gillard Misogyny speech. Hear the full interview with Ben Rhodes — the juicy bit about Abbott and Gillard speech hits around 35min in.Sarah’s plugs:🎙️Sarah's podcast WILD✍🏻 Sarah's Substack THIS IS PRECIOUSWe’ll be back next week with a new A Rational Fear season.And I’d love to hear from you. What shall we do next season? What do you want to hear more of? What would you like to hear less of? How can we delight our audience more?Leave a comment on the Substack post for this podcast.CheersDan Ilic Dan Ilic  0:00  G'day there, Dan Ilic here with a rational fear lite this week. Yes, it is a light version just me and a guest. You'll meet them in just a second. Just kind of warming up for the next 10 weeks of regular recording. It's going to be exciting. I think we might have a sponsor as well. So next week, I'll tell you all about that on a rational fear. In the meantime, I'm recording irrational fear on the land of the Gadigal. In the urination, sovereignty was never seated, we need a treaty. Let's start the show.Simon Chilvers  0:26  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of our rational view recommended listening by image your audience.Dan Ilic  0:39  Tonight, Sydney takes over Canberra as the most expensive city to rent in Australia. In order to win back the title of Canberra and landlords are increasing levels of mold. And after Mark Zuckerberg released his new avatar with legs is promised to invest another $10 billion to develop a personality. And cuantas has hit a huge profit the first six months of the year earning $1.3 billion before tax, most of which they discovered was stored in baggage lost in broomed. It's the 14th of October just weeks away from a state street tax cut. This is a rational fear.Welcome to rational fear. I'm your host, former coach of the Manly Sea Eagles, Dan Ilic. And this is a rational fear light, just me and a guest. Talking through a few stories, having a bit of fun catching up, seeing someone face to face. Oh, it's good. It's gonna be good fun. And when it gets we have journalist, thinker, doer, and most crucially, my neighbor Sarah Wilson, welcome to irrational fear.Sarah Wilson  1:47  I think it's absolutely apps that are on the diet version of the show, don't you? Because that's the reputation I've always had as peddling a diet. Yeah,Dan Ilic  1:55  this is perfectly fine. This is the sugar free version of a rational fire. Yeah,Sarah Wilson  1:59  yeah. I mean, I quit. I quit sugar. I don't know if everyone got that memo. But yes, I'm still associated as a diet. So I've never been on a diet my life. Dan, you've seen me eat. SoDan Ilic  2:09  like, yeah, I have seen you eat and I've had burgers with you. I'm robust. Yeah. The thing is, when you say you've quit sugar, and you've quit, quit sugar. Are you now back into sugar? Are you now investing? Double downing on sugar and double boosting sugar?Sarah Wilson  2:23  No, not at all. Not at all. I mean, nothing's changed. It's just that I'm not caught up in the tedium of running a business, which is just not my thing, right? And also a commitment I made to myself, blah, blah, blah, that when it made a certain amount of money, I gave it all away.Dan Ilic  2:37  Well, would you believe it? I'm not committed to running a business either. That is why we need your help on Patreon. On Patreon, and can I say Sarah's also got an incredibly interesting and thought provoking substack and she provides us on substack. But my partner loves your substack she absolutely enthralled with the stories of your travels and insights that you gather from people you meet on the road. It's a terrific subject. ShouldSarah Wilson  3:03  I enjoy writing? It's a nice realm to be in, isn't it just having worked for News Corp for many years and ACP slash was a Bauer, the Germans Yeah, yeah. It's it's nice just to be to have my own space where I can actually yeah, get subscribers who want to read my stuff.Dan Ilic  3:19  What's it like being your own editor?Sarah Wilson  3:20  Oh, this is typos. Isn't there?Dan Ilic  3:24  Alright, let's get into the stories this week. A Connecticut jury awarded nearly a billion dollars in damages to 15 plaintiffs who were defined by conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. Now this is absolutely incredible like this, this landed today, a billion dollars Alex Jones is now gonna have to pay these poor people that he spent years defaming over the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting back in 2012. So long ago now but of course, the pain of this is a is a real thing. Back in August, he was forced to pay $50 billion he declared bank TexasSarah Wilson  4:00  Yeah, one family yeah. Now it's eight families who've who are gonna have to split that $1 billion for defamation. Yeah, I think he's set up sort of companies with dad. Right. So some of his money has been siphoned off to family accounts and trusts a bit of sneaky stuff going on. But still I doubt he has enough to pay off you know, several billion dollars there'sDan Ilic  4:21  one estimate that is worth 300 million but yeah, you know at the most that is still a lot of a mushroom infused coffee beans you have to sell on the store. He's still selling like he's still he's still asking for money. I don't know if you caught this. This is him. During the actual verdict as the verdict was coming down. He was on air on his show. asking his supporters for money still from Remington.Alex Jones  4:48  That'll be happening ain't no money.Unknown Speaker  4:50  Damages. In this case, we award damages to each plaintiff and against Alex Jones and freeze October number one compensatory instructions fill in both numbers for each waited then goes I rememberAlex Jones  5:05  I'm in bankruptcy we got two years of appeals. The money you donate does not go to these people. It goes to fight this fraud and it goes to stabilize the company they want to shut down that's why the analysts chaser did this by they use these families so save infowars.com are fighting Goliath will win because of you save infowars.com Infowars store.com Double Patriot points 10% off of 7076 right now at Infowars store but you see he wants me to fight for you. I'm doing it and you see what they do. So you want we want to fight? That's fine. It's your decision. But that's where we are. That's the whacked out system to the left. Do we hit a billionDan Ilic  5:45  did we hit a billion guys? Like he's a he's like we'd like waiting for the big billion to land did we do it? Either way the bad guys well, yeah, you are the bad guys but there's completely shamelessness. Go on it at this time as the verdict was handed if if you had to owe someone a billion dollars because you are an asshole would you beSarah Wilson  6:06  shutting my mouth but that's just not the way he operates. It's really interesting. I don't know if you ever followed any of Jon Ronson stuff on him. He's been following him for decades, like literally since he was like in his early 20s. I mean, I rememberDan Ilic  6:19  as a kid watching his early conspiracy theories about 911 probably like, early 2000 to 2003 Youtube wasn't even around then it was these these WMVSarah Wilson  6:31  That's it. That's it. Well, Jon Ronson went and visited him because he was running the program out of his bedroom. And literally, he had Star Wars wallpaper. Like, you know, he was in his little room with Star Wars, you know, wallpaper with a single bed. It was his boyhood home. And that's where he was recording fromDan Ilic  6:50  from his mom's house is Dad's Yeah, well, that's only one step down from this situation where I'm renting to a landlord and I'm, I'm recording this from home.Sarah Wilson  6:59  Yeah, but just wait for 20 years get somebody to follow you now, Jon Ronson, to document his story now. But look, he's an absolute narcissist. And that court case, I've listened to bits of it. He really treated it like one of his programs, didn't he? It was it was a performance and he created chaos. And that's what a lot of these conspiracy theorists shocked Doc's I mean, that's what they love doing. It's what Trump did they create chaos.Dan Ilic  7:25  What does this defamation thing mean for people who want to be like, you know, the next Alex Jones like your RV, your Manny's your your right wing shock shock. So are your your crazy left wing shock jocks who want to kind of pedal in this mistruths space, do you think? Do you think they'll take notice? Or do you think this is just a sign to get more attention?Sarah Wilson  7:46  I think that it will actually rile people up for a while. I mean, he's still going, he's still making money. He has been deep platformed across all of, you know, like Twitter, Facebook, and so on. But then you have the Joe Rogan's of the world that get him onto their programs, and, you know, spread the message across Spotify. So he's still got a little bit of oxygen, but I do think the $1 billion thing will will resonate. I think there'll be anger they'll his fans will mobilize but I'm not sure how far it can go when you've been deep platformed to that extent,Dan Ilic  8:20  have you seen the kind of stuff he sells on his on his store? Alex Jones No. Oh, he sells like you know, supplements and the usual coffee beans infused with like, mushroom, by the broadcaster's there are these other things you can buy from the Infowars stores which are like literally buckets of food. You can put in your bunkerSarah Wilson  8:38  off prepper prepper stuff.Dan Ilic  8:41  It's like it's buckets of food that will last for like 10 years in a bucket for when the shit hits the fan. Do you think he's going to be hitting gear to his bunker to eat some of that food now? Is that the plan he's got so much of his food in the bucket heSarah Wilson  8:52  might feel and buy up land in New Zealand because that's what he's done. He's built his bunker I think in New Zealand. Yeah, you want to cut? Yeah, the prepper realm? I mean, that's another realm where do we go from there?Dan Ilic  9:03  Zealand, New Zealand too far to go for Alex Jones. He's can barely make it out of his parents bedroom.Sarah Wilson  9:08  thing. Actually, one thing that really came up and struck me with the Jon Ronson deep dive idea over the last couple of days as this has all been going down, is he went back and actually spoke to some of his childhood friends. And Alex likes to tell the story of how you know his dad took him out of a school, which was just terrible at some stage. So Jon Ronson, went back and actually investigated and found that in fact, he was such a bully. He actually beat up some guy within an inch of his life. This guy, this was his best friend, by the way.Dan Ilic  9:40  Are you trying to tell me Alex Jones was a bully?Sarah Wilson  9:42  I know hard to believe. I believe it didn't just happen overnight. You're using different passionate about conspiracies, right. But he his best friend I think made a slur about a girl that he wasn't keen on or something like that. And he beat this guy up within an inch of his life. And this guy's now got permanent bro. ain't trying Oh, and he's I think he's in a wheelchair etc. The friends all got together because they were so sick of being bullied because he was the book classic bully. Everyone was too scared to stand up to him. But there was a conspiracy. They all got together on a Saturday night and actually gave him a pounding and off the back of that his dad moved him from town to another place, right? Yeah, so as a store of slightly different version of the story, right?Dan Ilic  10:24  Yeah, he's he's not the victim here.Alex Jones  10:29  I just don't want to catch him in bed with a goblin. I don't want to see him kissing goblins. Having political Succubus with goblins.Dan Ilic  10:40  This week second fear meta is kind of going through this bit of an epic transition because Facebook is struggling. Not many people are using it anymore. So they've got this big idea to kind of start the metaverse as people know, it's this VR experience. And the share price of meta has tanked. It's like half of what it was a year ago. And the metaverse is trying to come to bear and everyone's trying to push Metaverse on everyone. But here's the thing, not even the people that work at meta actually want to use it. This great report from The Verge came out today say that the internal memos are saying that not enough people are using the metaverse at work. And if you can't use it at work, how are people meant to use it in their everyday lives? AndSarah Wilson  11:21  well, it's affecting the development, right. It's saying that the developments aren't happening fast enough, because people aren't getting native with it.Dan Ilic  11:28  Yeah. And so people don't know how to use it. People hate using it when they fix the glitches. Yeah, people that work at Mehta just don't want to use Metaverse isn't that a headlineSarah Wilson  11:37  pops up in one form or another every six months or so we love a headline that says Silicon Valley don't use their own products. Right? My one of my favorites is all of the big heads, including Steve Jobs and Bill Gates as well. They send their kids to Steiner Schools where they play with wooden blocks. And technology's completely banned.Dan Ilic  11:57  Like, please, we need to get away from technology as much as we possibly Yeah,Sarah Wilson  12:01  I mean, it's a real thing. And I think it was only a couple of weeks ago, some inventors some big game doesn't let his kids play it. So it's not a new concept. This is slightly different because they're saying the product ship. But really it's a reflection on the metaverse, isn't it? Yeah, and the whole VR dream. Like, I'm seeing this happening more and more. It's a discussion I'm seeing Dan, with a number of my guests on my podcast where we actually do talk about the fact that this technology AI in particular, is just galloping ahead. But there's quite a few people, including the people who are inventing the technology who are going hang on, do we want this? Is this what we actually really want? And I think that question is becoming very, very loud.Dan Ilic  12:47  You are correct. This is a great insight. Nobody wants this universe. Currently, there is a great experiment happening with AI and somebody has managed to stitch together an AI Steve Jobs being interviewed by an AI Joe Rogan, just from everything, they've all said it kind of it I'm gonna play a little bit of it for you. So you can get a feeling for what it sounds like. We'll play the first couple of minutes. And just he kind of the back and forth from Steve Jobs and Joe Rogan. It is pretty uncanny.AI Joe Rogan  13:21  Welcome to another episode of The bro Joe Rogan experience. And on this episode, I welcome my friend who's difficult to describe. Fascinated by him, and I hope you will be too and he is weird, and brilliant and sometimes totally insufferable. So super psyched about having him in the house today. First time or? Yeah, we've had you on before, but not for a long time. Like Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore and ghost. You're a memory from the past. So without further ado, my friend who's difficult to describe and wonderful and I'm so grateful he came on the show.AI Steve Jobs  14:02  How's it going? Good to see you, buddy. It's been a long time since I've been on the show. I've missed this. It's always fun.AI Joe Rogan  14:08  How's it going? Come on. Tell me about jobs. It's always good to see you, buddy. I'm so happy you came on man.AI Steve Jobs  14:19  Yeah, it's great to be on the show. Your audience is just so different from your normal Apple users. And that's a good thing. It's cool.Dan Ilic  14:27  Isn't that uncanny?Sarah Wilson  14:28  It's a bro mash up. Right. I mean, it's slick and bro meets pod bro.Dan Ilic  14:35  And the AI is probably developed by white bros.Sarah Wilson  14:38  Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I don't know if they realize just, yeah, the irony. The triple irony, the triple pipe irony going on there. It is really interesting. I like how it segues from our last topic. Yeah. Because I measure I mean, well that's what that's what, that's where we've arrived and where everything is sort of not It enabled around everything else, you know, you've got these conspiracy theories, like we can't tell the difference between who's a left leaning person and who's a right leaning person. Like, everything is so fragmented and mashed up. Now it's so difficult to know what's real, and AI just reflects that. Yeah, like, what's, where does reality start and end,Dan Ilic  15:22  I never thought I'd need to use like, darly or something I could never see use for it for myself. I'm like, Who wants to create as Spaceman in a field of poppies? Like, like, like, why would I need that. And the other day, I could see how I could just put a whole bunch of people out of business because I was putting together the irrational fears show live at festival dangerous ideas, and I needed a bunch of graphics done in a hurry. And I, I hired a professional graphic artist to do it. But I'm like, wow, in about four years time, I could imagine these jokes as graphics, put them into a thing. And now they'll spit it out. And I'll be able to, I'll be able to use those graphics instead of hiring someone. And I immediately went shit. That is, that is a big, that's a that's a it's actually scared me by the person I trusted to put these graphs together. Pat, Forrest did an incredible job. And they're hilarious and beautiful, and stunning images to get jokes across to the audience.Sarah Wilson  16:17  But this is what we want. Because do we want to put people out of jobs? Do you want the delicacy that the imperfection that comes with human creativity to be eradicated? No, I don't think we doDan Ilic  16:29  a what. And also for me, like, as a joke teller, like, I thought I could never use a program like that. Because comedy requires a certain nuance to kind of get an idea over real quick fashion. But seeing some of these images that are popping out of people's prompts, it's like, fuck, if you if you're a good prompter, you could you could absolutely create the image, you need to get the joke.Sarah Wilson  16:49  Yeah, got it. But you still got to have the human to create the joke. You've still got to have the nuance going on that I see. I don't even know think So You Think You think AI can be taught how toDan Ilic  16:59  be funny? Yeah, I think I think so. And you know, the thing that makes me nervous about that, and this is the reason why I hate this game so much is Cards Against Humanity, Cards Against Humanity is just a non sequitur generator. And people find non sequitur is funny. And if you just jam two ideas up there that undercut each other people laugh and have a good time and move on. And so it's like, ah, that's, that's the thing that's going to kill us somewhere in the future, someone's gonna work out how to makeSarah Wilson  17:26  all the singularity, which is that moment when AI technology is meant to take over from human capacity. They're saying it's this century, like, it's close. And is there anyone out there? Is there a godlike figure? You know, and I'm guessing it's not Joe Rogan or Steve Jobs? Well, we know it's not Steve, are they sitting down and going, okay, ethical and moral implications of this? And are they just going that AI is made in our image, right? It's a reflection of our intelligence. And when we confront something that's weaker than us more vulnerable, we kill it. And so is AI going to do the same thing to us? I'm sure Mehta,Dan Ilic  18:04  a company, that department that's responsible for the genocide of large groups of Southeast Asian populations got unethical department, I'm sure they've thought it through.Unknown Speaker  18:17  Oh, God, who sues? Oh, rational fear,Unknown Speaker  18:21  we are still the company that designs technology around people. And finally, thisDan Ilic  18:27  week's third beer, Sarah Wilson is the 10th anniversary of Julian Gill ads misogyny speech 10 years ago, it kind of is strange that there are young people out there who are in their 20s, who were like 10 years old, when this kind of speech came out and they are magnifying it.Sarah Wilson  18:41  They're wearing the t shirt,Dan Ilic  18:42  they're wearing the T shirts. It's a fun, it's a weird kind of thing to kind of see how this speech has become mimetic as like a symbol of feminism in AustraliaSarah Wilson  18:52  internationally, though, as well. I mean, that's the that's the funny thing about it is that here in Australia, it didn't really make headlines until it made headlines overseas, because as you know, it came off the back of a bit of a slippery basses. Peter sleeper was misogynist. Julia Gillard had a vested interest in keeping him in the Speaker's seat. And so that speech pivoted from that, but the American audiences, the German audiences who watched it, you know, virally, they don't know all of that. That said, it also came off the back of many, many years of horrible misogyny. Yeah, and it's occurring more broadly, as we now know, in Australian politics and in Parliament House. So yeah, it's interesting. It was always something that took a while for Australians to grasp. I think it was a bigger international phenomenon first.Dan Ilic  19:48  Why do you think that is? Why do you think people in global spaces saw their speech and were willSarah Wilson  19:54  So partly because it was out of context. Of course, it'sDan Ilic  19:58  very difficult to kind of say, well, let me Talk about this guy Peter sliver of an asshole. He works for the National.Sarah Wilson  20:04  Tony Abbott. Let me explain the fact that Yeah, so I think there was that that's not all that it really is because I think Australia, and I'll say it straight. I've said it before as misogynist country. And I don't know that we've progressed all that further in 10 years. It's sort of the wallpaper to our existence, and we have to suck it up. We don't do the outrage around it. And I sort of think that we are expected to roll with the punches of it. Misogyny is very tied up in that bloke culture. The Larry can She'll be right, God, yeah, you're the one with the problem, because he can't take a joke, that whole vibe. And so when we see misogyny as in as women, I think, or as you know, good men, we don't notice it straightaway. And we don't call it out straightaway, we needed it to be seen through the lens of, you know, being these outlets in the on the other side of the world before we felt very ashamed about it.Dan Ilic  21:00  Speaking of somebody who saw this speech overseas, Ben Rhodes, who was on irrational fear, couple years ago, talking we were talking to him about climate changeSarah Wilson  21:09  this is this has resurfaced as an adult or became news back then didn't that irrational fear expose this, this particular story? But yes, please tell us the background. Yeah.Dan Ilic  21:19  So we were talking to Ben Rhodes about climate change and how you know, Australia so far behind in Australia, so backwards, and he was just saying, You guys are so backwards. You know, Tony Abbott is so backwards like we had to we had many debates with Tony Abbott. And we realized like talking to him was like talking to a brick wall. And why he was in power. Every time we had to deal with him. We watched the misogyny space. So here's Ben Rhodes.Sarah Wilson  21:37  Oh, what just for entertainment?Dan Ilic  21:39  Yeah, here he is, in his own words here, Ben.Ben Rhodes  21:41  I did not know that. I will tell you that whenever we were really annoyed with Tony Abbott. We would watch the video of that speech by Julia Gillard. Yeah, well, that speech got watched a lot. Let me just put it that way. You know,Lewis Hobba  21:57  and when sorry, when all those hand washing videos were coming out at the start, and they were like, You need to wash your hands for at least 20 seconds. People were giving you like sunglasses like wash it for the length of Happy Birthday. There are a lot of people who are going you just need to wash your hands for the length of Julia Gilad was such a niceDan Ilic  22:15  seven minutes. It's heartening to know that Obama and his staff were watching that speech just to feel better about having to deal with Australia.Sarah Wilson  22:28  While we're doing segues, by the way, I actually had on my podcast last week, a woman called Marianne Sieghart. She's a BBC correspondent. She's been the associate editor of the Times for 20 years. And she wrote a book just recently called the authority gap. And in it she interviews Julia Gillard, or Dillard about the speech. And there's a bunch of things that she says in there, which actually have come out in the press just this week about how she wished she actually had said it done the speech earlier, she had actually sat on that rage and that need to call it out for quite some time, because she felt that Australians would settle into the idea of an Australian female PM. Well, they didn't. And eventually, she felt she had to give that speech. But Marianne, and I cover a bunch of things in the podcast, and she's got this great, I've got to share this one, she's got this great study that she references, where I think it's something like it's a huge, I think it's 3000 children across all teenagers, male and female, across nine countries. So it's a meta study, just to bring it all back in. Anyway, they get a bunch of 15 year olds, male and female, and they present them with a dozen or so mathematical concepts. And the children that are teenagers are asked if those ideas are familiar to them. Have you heard of these ideas? Do you know about these things? Anyway? In the blokes say that they have heard are far more of them than the women, the women go, Oh, I'm not sure if that kind of thing, right? The thing is about a quarter or a third of them. Bullshit, right? They throw in non concepts. But the blokes still say, oh, yeah, I know about that. I know about that. And the women say, oh, no, I don't think I know about that one. Anyway, the conclusion of the study is that men have a disposition to bullshitting. And, you know, it starts when they're young, and it carries on anyway. So if we're going to be talking to former male Australian PMS, the bullshitting thing comes through loud and true. But then to bring it back around, she also points out that Obama's staff also had this thing where the women got fed up with their ideas been interrupted and talked over in meetings. And so they got together and Obama picked it. And he actually got the women together and said, Hang on, what are you doing here? Have you heard about this?Dan Ilic  24:46  This is the echo. Somebody will say a point. And then somebody will come in and say it, and somebody will repeat the point. Yeah,Sarah Wilson  24:53  so a woman will come up with an idea and generally, any woman listening will know what I'm talking about. It'll just get ignored. But then In 10 minutes layer a bloke will raise it. And of course, it's a fantastic idea and they own the idea and off it goes. So what happens? The echoing thing is that women get together and go, Alright, we're gonna bring some a point, we're gonna make sure it almost gets, you know, tallied. Right. So great point, Martha. And then, you know, and that's how they do it. And Obama noticed it, and the women said, yeah, we've got to do it. Otherwise our ideas don't get heard. So anyway, that was a guest that I spoke to. And since we're doing segways I think that was a loop de loop segway. Well, Danville,Dan Ilic  25:30  you are the you are the master of the Segway. Well,Sarah Wilson  25:34  I don't know where we landed anywhere in interesting, butDan Ilic  25:37  Well, speaking of podcast, Sarah, you've got a podcast. That wasSarah Wilson  25:41  a perfect handles. Your podcast is,Dan Ilic  25:46  you know, it's back in fine form. You're back on the horse who have you had recently and what have you learned?Sarah Wilson  25:50  This week's is actually an interesting one. It's a slight diversion. Matt Brown. He's an Australian academic. And he co hosts a podcast called decoding the Guru's. And it pulls apart these. Again, this is a segue, the Joe Rogan's of the world, the LEX Friedman's the Weinstein's they actually pull apart these segments bit by bit, and put it through a barometer a group to see if they're like for real or just got Messiah Complex. And it's really it's quite controversial. They're all blokes, you know, and yeah, this is Australia. He's an Australian academic, based out of the University of Queensland. And then the other one is an academic, he's Irish, and lives in Tokyo makes no sense whatsoever. But they've become quite influential and a lot of these gurus you know, the Jordan Peterson's Lex Friedman, who else is there, Sam Harris, although Sam doesn't quite fit into that bucket, Russell Brand. They are sort of targets of decoding the Guru's anyway. So I interview, Matt about all of this and we go into why it is that this is happening now. What it is saying about our culture, what it's saying about young men and their need for these gurus for these men that come out,Dan Ilic  27:09  why do we need Jordan Peterson to tell people to have tall rules to make their bed or to make their fucking bed? Yeah.Sarah Wilson  27:15  Well, if it was as harmless as that, that'd be okay. But the problem is that they go on to spread conspiracy theories. And of course, they all sell the same powders and products online. They all interview each other. So Joe Rogan used to have more women on his podcast. Now they just, it's just a bro fest. It's a bro orgy, they all interview each other, they all love each other, they all support each other. And when you've got Joe Rogan supporting Alex Jones, and Andrew Tate, and then you've got Lex Friedman supporting Joe Rogan, and they all support each other. It's just this echo chamber of quite frankly, misogyny.Dan Ilic  27:50  Well, can I just say thank you for supporting irrational fear by coming on?Sarah Wilson  27:56  Yes, well, and we did talk misogyny. And we did talk Alex Jones. But are we platforming? I don'tDan Ilic  28:03  know. It's hard to tell. So with that, with that interview, what's the one big takeaway from that conversation you had with with Matt? Um,Sarah Wilson  28:13  well, I think it would be for my listeners to just be aware of husband's friends who are listening to these people and be aware of the messages that they're peddling. Just about everyone I know has a partner who loves Joe Rogan is great, he's great. And thinks that their their research is legit. It's it's really not. Yeah. Anyway, I'd be a fan of Joe Rogan. I still listen to his stuff.Dan Ilic  28:33  So do your own research and do your own research on your research. shape or SIBO. Big thanks to everyone who supports us on Patreon. Also, big thank you to rode mics who sent me a wonderful new road caster too excited to test that out streaming sometime soon. If you are heading to purpose next week, we'll be there we're going to be recording irrational fear in the foyer at purpose. So do apply and say hi, and we'll catch you next time. There's always something to be scared of. See you then. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Australia is the most secretive liberal democracy in the world.  We’d love to tell you more about it, but need our lawyer present. In this special edition of A Rational Fear where we’ll rip into Australia’s most closely-guarded secrets. How did ▓▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ drown? And why can’t you say a ▓▓▓▓ has arrived from ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓?On this very special edition of A Rational Fear live on stage at the Festival of Dangerous Ideas, we bring together some big names in journalism, comedy and whistleblowing to examine what went wrong with Australian Secrecy.05:21 Dan Ilic sets the context for the ultra secretive world we live in now.16:10 Damien Cave points out that Australia is secretive for no good reason.26:29 Amber Schultz highlights that the press also have secrets when they shouldn't.37:18 Kate McClymont gives you tips on how to remain secret.43:35 David McBride talks about the personal toll for doing the right thing.50:15 Lewis Hobba says we're all being told things we shouldn't, and none of the things we should.Big thanks to everyone who came to the live show.Please support the podcast on Patreon and Subscribe to the email list. We can't keep doing this kind of stuff without your help.🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ Dan Ilic  0:00  Oh, hello everyone. Yay round of applause We haven't even done anything. It's it's fantastic. Joy. We're recording a live podcast of our show. So you are an integral part of the show. So it's important to clap and cheer and laugh at all the jokes no matter the quality of the jokes. Yeah, that's right. Yes. Like, move that person to the front. Yeah. Well, we've got a seat down here for you. Particularly at the top. At the very start of the show. Dan likes to start the show with three big jokes. terrible jokes very, very in quality. And they are wafting. Terrible, yeah, really. Lewis Hobba  0:42  For his sake. I beg if you clap, and she just pretend they're really good. Dan Ilic  0:49  It's a format point of the show. We want to we want to be as close to the weekly as possible. Lewis Hobba  0:56  It's gonna be a really fun show. This is an incredible house. And let's firstly just give it a huge round of applause. Yeah. Carriageworks festival dangerous idea. Dan Ilic  1:03  Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm Dan. And I'm Louis. Yeah. And we'll introduce these folks in a second. All right, great. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on Gadigal land in the urination sovereignty was never seated when at a treaty. Let's start the show. Simon Chilvers  1:17  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience. Dan Ilic  1:31  leaked documents show that top defense officials were kept in the dark about submarine contracts. When asked about it, Scott Morrison said he wouldn't talk about ongoing underwater matters. And in order to increase transparency Anthony Albanese auditor or government ministers to leave their dream journals unlocked. And Governor General David Hurley becomes a Patreon supporter of irrational fear. No jokes. He is the best Governor General ever. Viva la Governor General. It's the 17th of September 2022. And you'll if you're listening to this it means I'm in a secret prison in Tuggeranong. This is a rational irrational fear on your hosts former sovereign Daniel itch and this is the show live at the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. This is the podcast where we make fun of the toughest topics because you know if we don't we try. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's been uncovering lies in Sydney for over 25 years. Tonight we'll ask her for her tips about how to lie to her face. It's the host of Leia Leia, Kate McClymont. Now Kate is not what we're talking about tonight. But everyone in this room wants to know did the husband do it? Kate McClymont  2:55  Oh, you haven't left me with a foot to stand on. Dan Ilic  3:00  Don't be fooled by this man's accent. He's so Australian. He makes the rest of us look like immigrants from the New York Times it's Damien caves. Damien when it comes to learning about Australia, is this something you haven't quite mastered yet? Damien Cave  3:15  You know, I just discovered what it means to have a smoker still there. Dan Ilic  3:22  And she's covered everything this year from Canberra to Kyiv tonight will be her toughest assignment yet, please give it up for Amber shocks. And as a cranky journalist who is more transparent Russia or Australia Amber Schultz  3:39  spends the metrics transparent about body composition that's transparent about ability to succumb to peer pressure. That's elbow. Dan Ilic  3:49  And he's the former Australian Defense Lawyer turn whistleblower now professional panel guest is David McBride. David, is there anything funny about the being the enemy of the state? David McBride  4:04  Well, it certainly makes your dating life a lot better. Say, Oh, I'm a lawyer. They're like, Oh, sickness, my boyfriend. You say I'm facing unlimited time in jail. You must be Dan Ilic  4:22  really up for a one night stand. Very day. And he's a government employee who's seen too much. And he's come here tonight to say enough is enough. It's Louis harbor. Lewis some. What secrets will you be revealing tonight? What secrets? Yeah. Gosh, I'm gonna tell you. I can't What can I tell you who's gonna win the 100 100 next? The audience here would probably really care about that. All these people are aging into the demographic. And he's on the paths and paths tonight is still in vain for the news fighters podcast. Oh, this is great. Well, what a stellar lineup, we have got more influence and power on this panel than inside Scott Morrison's head. It's very exciting. And I don't blame him for signing up for more than one job. There's, there's, of course a labor crisis going on. It's very hard to find good help. We'll have more on the Morrison ministries a little later on. In fact, we'll hear from all of our fear mongers in just a second. But first, I'm going to do a bit of a deep dive to set the context for tonight's performances. I'm here to tell a story. There's an island in the Pacific that is on the verge of autocracy, its leaders have acquired a huge amount of power over its citizens. They raid journalists are reporting on crimes the state has committed, they lock up whistleblowers, for calling out corruption. If doctors and teachers talk about the jobs on social media, they could go to jail. And they banned reporting on certain modes of transport. So where the bloody hell are you? Well, if you answer that question out loud, you could go to jail, but I say because I'm brave. I'm not a coward. It's New Zealand and we need to keep an eye on. No, it's us. It's Australia. Prior to the National Security Information Act of 2004. The top three Australian secrets were the Vegemite recipe, the Australia two winged keel and Harold Holtz post Prime Ministerial career as a taxi driver in Bundaberg. No one ever talks about it. That's it. That's all the secrets we had in Australia, pre 2004. There was, of course, our Pine Gap. But that's more of an American CSR secret. Yeah. And the only person that can lose their job if they talk about is the prime minister. Everything else? Yes. Oh, because everything else is on the table until 911, which was or in Australia's case, our 911 was the tamper crisis. And that's when the National Information Security Act came in. And then the She'll be right. No walk and fairies version of Australia was locked away in John Howard's basement never to be seen again. Instead, we have a bunch of legislation that makes transparency harder than ever. The National Information Security Act is one thing up is the big one. Okay. Anything deemed by the government that is of a national security risk can't be reported on or it can't even go to court. And if it does go to court, you'll never hear about it. Like the case of witness J discovered in 2019, a person who was secretly jailed in the ICT, we don't know their name. We don't know their crime, their sentence or what they were sentence for. The only thing we do know is what they might look like thanks to a court sketch from the secret trial. Yeah. Look around you. It could be could be any one of us and how we know they exist in the first place was that they actually writing a memoir in jail. And the AFP went and raided their cell and they were so pissed off that the AFP raided their cell to take their memoir away. They took the ICT government to court to complain about it, and then we only find out about it because a Judge Burns read it out in court. And everyone's like, what the fuck with this secret guy got from? There was witness Kay a secret trial against a whistleblower who revealed that Australian secret agents bugged East Timor Prime Minister's office when we were negotiating Castile that was in 2004. That deal got torn up went to The Hague. There's a whole deal. They got renegotiated again, and then it wasn't until 2014. Witness Kay went to trial in secret in Australia, a decade later. Now, this should be concerning, because we don't know how many secret cases there are like this. They could be 1000s. I'm not an expert. But I think we should definitely investigate witnesses a true i. Now, that's one part secret trials, right. A couple of other things you should think about is this misnamed Freedom of Information Act, because it's not free, and you don't get any information. Journalists or anyone who is interested can actually request documents from the government. But it costs a shitloads of money. And if you're a journalist, it can take forever and go past your deadline. And they're pretty much useless when it comes back. When news organizations have the resources and time to challenge the government. It's a whole process, you got to go through the Information Commissioner, the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, and then the federal court. And that process can take up to three fucking years to do that which case in our hypothetical, that journalist would have been laid off by several news organizations. But on the upside is now working inside the Prime Minister and Cabinet so they can look at all the documents they want. And then this is this is the national cabinet, a regular meeting of premiers and First Ministers and the Prime Minister. It was created during COVID to talk about what COVID Presumably, we actually don't know because it's secret. South Australia might want to change the size of their rail gauge again and ruin the dream to boomers across the country in the Indian Pacific. We don't know we need to know. We just have a minute song. So that joke. Really excited for that. Used to be called COAG I don't know if anyone remembers this. The Commonwealth Heads of Government But it was changed for two reasons. First of all, it sounded like a brand of glue. And then Scott Morrison renamed the national cabinet that so he could basically claim that all the meetings were cabinet in confidence like the real Commonwealth cabinet, but it's not. It's just made up. Morrison just fucking made it up Lewis Hobba  10:21  for now he's a cabinet maker as well. He's a cabinet maker. Scott Morrison  10:29  That was good. Thank you. Dan Ilic  10:32  Thank you, sir. You're allowed to lobby. You don't have to say that was good. But I'll tell you. There are heroes on this island like the Auditor General whose great work includes sifting through tons of Excel spreadsheets to find any anomalies exposed waste and conflicts of interest. Here's what the Auditor General has done in the last little bit. You may remember the leppington triangles sportswriting carpark roads. Yeah, pretty good. What an incredible group of public service heroes give a round of applause pretty amazing work and what was their reward? Well, the Morison government defunded the pump by $14 million. Meaning that the Australian National Audit Office can now only complete 38 audits a year 38. That's not many. I think Angus Taylor has more offshore bank accounts than that. So yeah, I don't know if you've picked up a trend here. But these secrecy laws have been around a while, but it seems like they've only been used in the last 10 years or so. It could have gotten into power 10 years or so. Is anyone who got their theory first public ministry 10 years or so. One prominent Senior Counsel Geoggrey Watson points the day that transparency died in Australia. Here's the exact date transparency died on Friday, the eighth of November 2013. It happened at a media briefing called then by the Immigration Minister Scott Morrison, you may remember it the overnight Unknown Speaker  11:55  incident. What's become a vet photo of asylum seekers. I will not comment further in relation to onboarding matters. Thank you. This is a great public intro. In relation to on water matters. Have they been coming further in relation to on water matters? I think we've dealt with that question. Unknown Speaker  12:16  And in terms of making that judgment, if they've done something because do customer Australia, doesn't that mean that your tax base policy Scott Morrison  12:22  is kind of? Well, you've made a whole bunch of presumptions there, which I'm not about to speculate, maybe you can make them up for? Well, you're the one making the presumptions that may Unknown Speaker  12:30  be the case of the overnight incident is not resolved. And that's why more information is not forthcoming. It's an ongoing Scott Morrison  12:35  operational matter. And the persons that were at risk have all been accounted for. We're not going to go into the micro detail of these operational matters. What we are saying is that we rendered assistance, and all the people and all the people have been accounted for. So we can go around this for a lot longer. But that is the position. Scary what you get now, isn't it? Wow, Dan Ilic  13:01  absolutely wild. You'll remember that. David McBride  13:03  You notice Angus Campbell, before he became Dan Ilic  13:07  chief of the defense straight after this? Yeah, like a year later, he was a chief of talent spawn. Yeah, so if you remember, do you remember that phrase, I will not comment in relation to home order matters, man. It was unrepeated every press conference for like six months until the press got bored and stopped going to those press conferences. He was even number five on the hottest 100 of that. Which is amazing. Also, it was on afternoon game shows as well. The Unknown Speaker  13:33  final question was $7,000 Go to you go take a look at this picture. What's the well known catchphrase? It's an ongoing operational matter. Close Hey, I bet the audience knows what it was sadly, Scott, you missed out on the $7,000 which isn't enough to buy you a journalist. These are the happy you get anyway, tonight. Scott Morrison  14:06  Yeah, I didn't get a logo. Dan Ilic  14:09  That joke relies so heavily on people remembering birthdays catch. Instead of showing the first competition is shown. As Jeffrey watched an SC put it there was a hint in those words that it might have something to do with national security. But that was never the case. There was no evidence was ever produced at once the government got away with it once they got a taste for it. And that kind of secrecy is alluring and has an addictive quality. As what's inputted to me by phone, just like in sports. Once one side of the game starts cheating and gets away with it. Both sides start cheating and we're already seeing labor, hinting that they will continue on with national cabinet in secret. So this is where we are on this island today laws designed to protect its citizens instead use to protect the fragile egos of megalomaniacs. We elect. Yeah. And it seems today everything on this island is secret for no good reason as Damian cave put it in a great 2019 article titled Australian might be the world's most secretive democracy. This is what he wrote. The most recent expansion of government secrecy came last year with an espionage bill would increase criminal penalties for sharing information declassified, even if even if a document happened to be as harmless as a cafeteria menu. So the other day, I tested it out, I reached out to Aziz cafe, in the middle of Parliament House, you need a pass to get into it. Or the politicians and lobbyists go there. And I sent them a text and asked them to send me a photo of the menu and they sent it through. Fantastic and don't worry, the sources were redacted. And in case you're wondering, they're the soup of the day is chicken. Yeah, so the guy apparently got a problem for me to check. That's good, though. Very happy. So there we go. ever run a Festival of Dangerous Ideas, please give it up for Damien cage. Damien Cave  16:12  Thank you. Thanks. So when I when I wrote that article, actually, you know, people thought I was crazy, calling Australia this extremely secretive democracy. But now that we have a prime minister with lots of secret jobs, maybe it's not so crazy. And maybe it's not just a crazy American who's, who's saying it? You know, since I wrote that story, there have been many more examples, lots of which you went into. But, you know, I think it's important to recognize that it's not just Canberra that this problem exists in. And, you know, I run into it all over the country when I'm dealing with people as a reporter. And I have a small story, a small example that will show you just how much it handles some of the most important issues at the local level. Like, can we get this image perhaps the giant banana, giant caveman banana? Let me back up for a minute. So we have a newsletter that The New York Times publishes every week called the Australia letter, which is basically a reporter riffing about the news of the week with a little bit of perspective. And so one week better, Odell was a wonderful writer for us. And Melbourne said, you know, I want to write about this public art thing. It's involves bananas and frogs and, and babies, and I had no idea what she was talking about. But I figured, yeah, for sure, go for it. So shockingly, after it runs, I get this email from somebody that says the subject line is immediate removal of article. And I'm wondering what on earth this is about, right. So I look in and I see that it's about the newsletter, which makes me go back and try to understand what this giant banana he-man thing is all about. And it turns out that there was an exchange being offered between, you know, a local council in Melbourne, and John Oliver, the comedian who John basically wanted to take this lovely piece of art off the hands of Melbourne and trade, and give them basically some frogs with some legs that were open a little bit wider than his approach. And along with that, he also had some babies that had been washed up on the shore and Texas, beautiful babies like this. And so he offered to trade these wonderful pieces of art for the he-man Banana. Basha was in favor of this plan. She loved the frogs, I think. So as you can see, this was a serious job of public interest journalism in Australia's greatest interests, which is why I was really surprised when I got an email and concerned I should say, and the subject line was immediate removal of article. I mean, that's a pretty big request. We don't take down articles from the New York Times, sometimes we attach a correction, maybe an Editor's Note, but take it down, I literally can't think of a single time that that's happened. And I worry that there must be some serious flaw in what beshear had written. But no, it turns out that the person in local government had an email exchange with her about whether the dollars could go into the recycling machine. And she was quoted as saying, and this is the exact quote, I don't know what the dolls are made of. So I can't officially comment either way. She wrote that in the email that her name was attached, and that it wasn't supposed to be because she did not consent to it, and was not an authorized spokesperson for the council, this council policy, she said, so at this point, I feel kind of bad. And I'm wondering like maybe this is just the person who happened to be in the office that day. So I go out and I look on LinkedIn and I discover that her actual title is Senior Advisor for media and communications. We had a bit more back and forth by email and she said that she was when she was quoted it was always without a name. Now at no point in this exchange with special did she request anonymity not that we would have granted it but the whole thing started to feel pretty ridiculous to me. I mean, here's a person who was being paid with tax dollars to give the media information demanding an article be spiked because she kind of did her job with a weird nothing burger. Have a comment about scary rubbery baby dolls. Like really, this is how far down the rabbit hole Australian secrecy is gone. But the thing is, I'd been around and I could also see this It really wasn't just her fault, right? This was bigger than her. This council did have a secrecy policy for almost everything. And everyone, just like Australia has a secrecy default for far too many things. As Dan mentioned, it's a habit, it gets addictive. She was just following the written and unwritten rules for the world's most secretive democracy. And I was pretty sure she didn't even see the context that way. So I tried to write back to her politely. And this is what I wrote. The problem here, it seems to me is the Australian practice of withholding names. In general, if you work for a public entity in a democracy, anonymity is not assumed you work for the public at taxpayer expense. And so in the future, if you don't want to be named, please make that clear in your exchange with New York Times reporters, and we can respond accordingly. She wrote me back and said, Thank you. This has been a huge lesson for me, in terms of dealing with reporters. Now again, this was her job. Scott Morrison  20:50  So she was she was the senior media advisor. Damien Cave  20:53  Yeah, exactly. Now, I wish that this was the only absurd example of Australia secrecy default in the years since I wrote that article, but it's not. There was also the time when I filed a public records request for some insight and what kinds of things the Foreign Investment Review Board was rejecting. I started out asking for companies and industries in the countries involved for every decision, I wanted to basically know what kinds of things were being rejected from China, in particular what or not, they said no to that. So then I just asked for numbers, lands statistics for which countries had applied and been rejected. I asked for ratios of accepted investments, anything that would give me any insight into what this very important government body was doing. And they said no to all of it. They just assumed it was a national security threat, whether or not China bought a dairy farm or not. More recently, and I'll end with this, I run into a senior Australian diplomat at an event who told me a handful of mildly insightful things about Australian foreign policies. At the end of our little chat, he looked at me in the eyes and he said, You can't quote or refer to anything I told you. I told them not to worry that I've been talking to a lot of Western officials from the US the UK a whole bunch of things on this story I was working on. So the most that I could imagine doing was combining what he said with others, and referring it to something like Western officials, in his eyes when Drew wide with fear. No, I've gotten in trouble for that. I've gotten in trouble for that, too. You can't do that you just can't. And again, none of what he told me amounted to state secrets, but he was completely stressed. It was like he feared being jailed or fired or killed for saying very, very little out. And that's really the problem here. The culture of secrecy has become so dominant in Australia that it muzzles, voices and sensors, people who are responsible for this democracy. Instead of recognizing that their roles include an obligation to the public to explain why they are what they are doing is good for the country. They behave as if telling the media and the public anything is a violation of ethics. And they are disciplined with that priority in mind, stay silent, keep information private, or else. Don't make any mistake. This is an authoritarian instinct. I've seen it in dictatorships around the world, and it's toxic and contagious. It's an attitude that strikes fear into everyone and anyone who has an urge to share important information that we deserve to know. One more thing, though some figures in Australian life, perhaps that former Prime Minister perhaps another member who we've tussled with, I think in the media quite a bit named Peter Dutton, have a far worse reputation on secrecy than others. But it is not a partisan problem. It's a political problem and a power problem and a habit problem. Even after Scott Morrison took on all those extra jobs, you did not see the Albanese government immediately promised to tackle the problem of secrecy all over government. And it's not clear if the Prime Minister ever will get around to dealing with it. This is the case even though countless studies show that secrecy undermines trust in democracy and creates the conditions for corruption and mismanagement. Australians really deserve better. My hope is that someday we get to a place where every official can speak freely, including those who have something to say about a gross baby doll washing up on shore, or a banana he-man public art project and David McBride  23:54  I want to jump in because what you said rang true and I and I get it forget it later. But the they had a thing in the defense was about privacy, the Privacy Act, and I think people understood the idea obviously, you don't want people finding out about your sexual preference or whatever, because through some sort of a lake, but they took it very seriously. And we were in in dropping bombs on people in the Middle East. And I kid you not. There was like a senior defense lawyer. It was sort of like targeting this terrorist. It's gonna say to say a Hellfire besar they were like, I'm not sure we may be breaching their privacy guideposts the whole action Dan Ilic  24:42  Damian has anything else? Kind of you've been here five years. Does anything else surprise you at all now due to kind of around secrecy in Australian Government? Damien Cave  24:51  You know, I think I'm constantly surprised by moments like the one I just described where it's it's so deeply ingrained in the culture that the default setting is to just not attach a name or under an understanding of accountability at the low, low level. So that's the first thing. It's just throughout the culture. And then the second thing is, though, that I'm so pleasantly surprised when people actually trust me and do help me like there was one time I was in like the small town in South Australia doing a story about I think there was a it was a memorial to a massacre against the local Aboriginal people. And somebody in government, this was a very, really big controversial conflict in this small town. But someone quietly at some point, handed me the small blue book, and he said, This is the phone numbers for everyone in this town. You can call it whatever you want. Don't tell anyone I gave. And I don't know why he trusted me with that. But I'm so grateful to those people who, who, you know, feel that they've taken a chance on me as a journalist, and I'm and that surprises me, because it's so rare, unfortunately. Yeah. Dan Ilic  25:49  Great. And what was the diplomat? What was he saying to you? Was he saying stuff? Like, you know, we sell a lot of shape in Australia. Damien Cave  25:56  You know, he was like talking about like other leaders and like things that were totally part of the public record. Like, I think he maybe he thought he was saying these brilliant things, but I'd heard all of it. But Amber Schultz  26:06  how much that has trickled down to normal conversation for I'll have dinner with a friend and they're just talking about the average Wednesday and they'll stop themselves and they'll be like, this is off the record. Unknown Speaker  26:17  Yeah, exactly. Damien Cave  26:18  That sense of self importance to I guess it's part of the secrecy thing. It's like whatever I'm doing it. I think it helps people sort of feel important to feel as though the menu for a restaurant might be secret. Dan Ilic  26:27  All right, great. Well, I'm looking forward to the next secret spilled by Amber Schultz. Amber Schultz  26:38  Last week, I went to this really glamorous event called the midwinter ball. So for those of you that don't know it's in Parliament, and it's an opportunity for journalists to cosplay as stage three tax cut recipients. We all go and the whole point of the event is to suck up to politicians and staffers and lobbyists. But what's weird is the entire thing as soon as you step through those doors, the entire event is off the record. It's all secret, which why you would have an event invite journalists and keep it off the record bewilders me it's not an ACO meeting. It's not an August meeting because if it was Scott Morrison would have leaked the Testaments and it's not despite what Senator Sarah Hanson young seem to think Met Gala event is the parliamentary ball. You know, Australia is addicted to secrecy. We've got witness que je lawyer X, you know, it sounds like a wiggle soul was Scott Morrison's ministerial appointments, whistleblowers a silence secret midwinter ball speeches, it's absolutely absurd. freedom of information requests in Australia across the past decade, have been rejected 50% year on year, those that are accepted, which is rare, but those that are accepted return pages upon pages of redacted information, so you just get a wall of black and it makes trying to figure out what the hell is going on about as difficult as reading a George RR Martin novel. But well, the government doesn't want to share any information with the public. It turns out the public is really, really happy to share information with the government. Yeah, we are we're a nation of dubbers. We love snitching It's absolutely absurd. And we didn't start like this. You know, Australia is, you know, our colonial history is a nation of convicts, and obviously the convicts aren't snitching, because the ones that snitched got stay in England. Our snitching culture is the result of some really, really successful marketing campaigns. So the government really does want whistleblowers that really wants people to come forward with information, provided, you're coming forward with information about Gen three doors down. So the first marketing campaign was Crimestoppers that started in the 80s. And that's been really successful. There's like 350,000 Tip offs per year. And about half of those actually result in a police report, which is hugely successful. And then of course, 911 happened and the government decided we need a national security hotline, we need something more tailored to terrorism. And conveniently, a lot of these national security hotline campaigns were released during elections because nothing else buys a vote like fear. So we had the if you see something, say something we had Be alert, not alarmed, and we had if it doesn't add up, speak up, we moved from loose lips sink ships to spy on your neighbor. It's normal behavior. But you know, a lot of these national security tips obviously a steeped in racism and prejudice. So Australia, we are trying to be better we are trying to be, you know, less divisive, more inclusive. So COVID presented a really fantastic opportunity of that because it meant we could dive on our neighbors regardless of race or background or socioeconomic class. It's progress, really. There was one example so there was so many people calling the police on one another often for really, really trivial things. One example was woman she's sitting home and she sees a photo scrolling through photos and she sees one where she looks absolutely shredded in her bikini from a holiday a year ago. She decides to post it on Facebook and suddenly the police are at a door. One of her Facebook friends saw that photo thought it was current and called the police on Yeah, that's how much we love snitching you know and you're worried about Zuckerberg spying on you. It's not so good for your old high school friend from 20 years ago. You know, we love snitching we have a dubbing hotline for almost everything. We have Dobbin a dealer that was launched in 2016. And DUBNER dealer has actually seen since the campaign launched, the number of people calling up about dealers double it's been really successful. Unfortunately, unfortunately, a tip off about AFLW style way Macquarie's dealer turned up nothing but crushed up bags of ibuprofen. It's a real hit and miss. We've got the job seeker Dobbin hotline which was cruelly caused it's not funny. Kate McClymont  31:07  Scott Morrison was ringing constantly. Amber Schultz  31:12  Which was currently called Adobe and Adobe Lightroom. Now that wasn't actually as successful because people didn't, you know, didn't really like the idea of dubbing in someone on the doll. But the people that did complain was small to medium businesses who said people that had applied for their jobs had lied on their CV, which is really funny because it just means the public is looking to John Barilaro. And taking a bit of a we also were used to we don't know, but we used to even have a hotline to dub in mislabeled seafoods. That's how much we love dubbing. Yeah. Yeah, there was a specific one for mislabeled seafood. Wow. Damien Cave  31:47  Sounds like a micro detail. Scott Morrison  31:50  RAM sticks. Amber Schultz  31:53  So tip offs and Dobbins are a dime a dozen. I mean in this economy, who knows, but really a diamond doesn't. So while you can't know what subpar jokes Albanese staff wrote for him at the midwinter ball speech he can know about that job interview, you didn't show up for you know, he can know about that crushed up bag of ibuprofen you bought, or he can know about that weird photo you posted on Facebook. So while the government you know, wants information from you, but only wants really, really trivial trivial information, you know, try snitching about something of importance and you know the thing snitches get stitches closed or prosecution Dan Ilic  32:37  and, you know, it costs money to do foi stuff. But what's the most you've ever cost Crikey. In your career as a journalist, Amber Schultz  32:48  I probably set a record for the fastest lawsuit from a new hire because I hit three days and immediately got a consent notice. So, you know, I don't know if you know this. But Craig, he has a very long rich history of being sued for defamation. So I was proud to join that on day three. Dan Ilic  33:05  It's kind of interesting, like you're talking about midway to Boulder, and the inverse, the immediate comparison is the White House press correspondents dinner in DC and which is like public broadcast celebrities, everyone wants to go to it. It's like, if you're a leader and you're at that event, you are going to get roasted and you if you if you fuck up on stage, you're going to eat it in front of everyone. It's like that is like the absolute icon of like that when you look at both countries, Australia and America, that's like transparency back to back anytime you are looking at America with respect and thinking like that they are more relaxed than us. Like, we need to have a good hard look at ourselves. It's like secret dinners for the whatever for the President and wave laws. Like what are we doing? Yeah, but it's weird those because we there's a not a bowl but there's a annual invite by ABC employee like the a bunch of ABC employees get basically instructed to go down to Parliament House and kiss the ring to suck up tour, isn't it? Well, yeah. And so one no, well, one year I was told to go down and as you know, the face of youth as I was back then and and it's so weird because obviously all politicians hate young people. So they were just like, get the fuck out of here. But then they everyone was like all of the ABC celebs out there trying to like impress you know, someone who would give us money and they didn't give a shit until b one and B two came out. And those politicians were fucking bananas. Like they were all grabbing photo like they were so excited. We're just like, well, I just wouldn't got drunk with Costa those politicians weren't obviously from Fitzroy. Exactly. And but when you're around Parliament House lately, can you tell If there's like a tone changed since the new government is coming like is there, is there a different feeling around the press color? Amber Schultz  35:07  There is I mean slightly. We've got the little, like little postcards that have the one 800 parliamentary support services number on it, but that they're everywhere. But aside from that, the only difference is people constantly if anyone like gets too close or accidentally brushes past someone, someone will yell Jenkins about the only difference. Dan Ilic  35:28  That's great. It's easy to make fun of the press gallery for kind of hypocrisy. They're under pressure from the government. It it's kind of interesting to see over the last couple of years how news reports have changed, particularly under the Morison government I don't know if you've noticed. Here's a clip from Channel 10 News. Unknown Speaker  35:48  Here are the headlines approved by the Department of Communications on 10. The Royal Commission into how good is Australia has found that Australia is very good and colder than many estimates predicted. The Department of Fair go agrees with the findings saying that Aussies are getting fair a goes and more goes than ever before. And Australia's most prestigious honor the Order of Australia is having a makeover with a brand new category added to the list. So move over items and AM's there's a new metal on the podium. It's the QA, which will be awarded to the most quiet Australian and that's someone who excels at showing complete disinterest in the affairs of government and goes about their day unquestioning the world around them. Nominations are now open. So good luck to everyone. And in sports, Australia's cricket team are the best and they will win the ashes if any of the current deliver want to see the loved ones again, turning to the weather, despite what it looks like out of the window, it is fine. And definitely average temperatures for this time of year. Definitely not white hotter than usual. That is, of course all the approved news for now in the greatest country in the world. And remember, it's on Australian to not have private health insurance. Unknown Speaker  37:09  Ladies and gentlemen, Dan Ilic  37:10  please give it up for Kate McClymont Kate McClymont  37:19  Right, I'm going to give you some tips tonight on how to avoid me. So I find now that often when I ring people up, I can hear them and I say, oh, it's Kate McClymont. Here, I can hit and go. But anyway, if you want to be secret, one of the things I want to advise you is not to buy a voice distorter. So I did have someone ring up to give me some very highly confidential information. And they've gone to the trouble of buying a voice distorter and it did sound like a crazed robot. But the information was absolutely fabulous. And I said at the end of the conversation, thank you so much. And now I can get you on this number for safe forgotten. Voice distorter that number still came up. Don't buy voice disorder. And too. If you want to remain secret, please use Australia Post snail mail, it's still the best way to send things. However, if you are one of the bead family, and you are sitting there sending me death threats, please wear gloves. Your fingerprints were on the envelope. And on the inside. So gloves if you really don't want to be. And one other thing I'd like to advise Eddie obeyed was in the past. When I rang his office to get some questions. He forgot to hang up. The phone on and I listened for 20 minutes, as they discussed how they were going to lie to me what they were going to say. And in the end, I had to call in on the office spoke. And I said look, Eddie, it's been so lovely hearing you talk about me. It's been so lovely hearing your plants. However, I really need a comment and I just heard them go off. They hung up. Another thing is that when a major crime figure has died, don't go behind the crypt at the funeral to discuss where the money is. This happened at many Macpherson's funeral, and I'd already been threatened so I thought I would hide behind the crypt. But on the other side of the crypt was Lenny McPherson solicitor, who was chatting away about where the money was hidden, what companies they had. So that was very handy. And having said those things I Do want to just take one moment to say that I am also an idiot when it comes to, you know, giving my own things away, Louis reminded me today that I accidentally sent a pin with my location on it to the head of the Hells Angels. Caitlin climber is here. Not so good. Then I sent a photo of my ear. How would you take a photo of your ear and send it, but I sent that to one of my colleagues who thought I, somebody had cut it off. And I was like, and then the last thing I did was that I did have my phone in my pocket. And I sent a whole lot of gibberish to Twitter. And people contacted me saying, should they call the police? Had I been kidnapped? Had I been kidnapped? And was this a secret cry for help? So I would just like to say that I too, like many of the criminals I cover am an idiot Dan Ilic  41:10  Do you ever feel honestly feel like your life is in danger? Kate McClymont  41:16  I always take the one of my contacts who was a detective said to me, Kate, don't worry about the ones that threaten you. It's the ones that don't. And I did get a death threat death threat delivered to my house and that did have 303 on it. And I said to my husband what that's actually our address 303 And he said it's a rifle, you idiot. And it doesn't help when you don't actually understand that you are a threat to your own house. Oh, Dan Ilic  41:47  so if we were to send a death threat to you, what's the best kind of Kate McClymont  41:53  with the with the fingerprints? And what Dan Ilic  41:55  is the best way to actually stay secret from me rather than you know all the mistakes? But like, How does someone? How does someone truly avoid Kate McLemore? Kate McClymont  42:03  No, it's very hard. Because the first thing I do is, if you come across my radar, the first thing to do is don't behave badly. That's how you can avoid me. But the first thing I do is I will do an ASIC search. If you have a company, I will find out how old you were where you used to live, whether you've got a mortgage on your house, how much you paid for your house, who lives next door who lives on the other side? What is your phone number? So Dan Ilic  42:30  is there like other ways that you do that publicly available? Kate McClymont  42:35  Just expensive. It's just expensive. I think I have the sort of an ASIC addiction in poker machines. I have that thing of doing an ASIC search, and my heart is racing. I'm waiting to find out who was in that company with that person. I love it. Dan Ilic  42:53  Some people pay for Paramount plus Did you ever pull up video bed and try to read negotiate a mortgage. Kate McClymont  43:03  Last time I did ring him up. He said to me, you put one word out of line and I will go for you. I will go for the jugular Have a nice day. So Damien Cave  43:18  most friends say Have a nice day. Kate McClymont  43:20  He's now in jail. And I just think having to spend eternity with your son Mosers. Punishment Dan Ilic  43:37  David McBride is a former military officer who served with both the ADF and British armies in Ireland and Afghanistan. And he now faces unlimited years in jail after exposing cover ups of war crimes committed by Australians in Afghanistan, yet he did not get invited to the Queen's commemorations. Unknown Speaker  43:55  Everyone please welcome David O'Brien. Dan Ilic  44:03  David with unlimited jail on the cards, it must play havoc with your psyche. How you preparing? David McBride  44:12  It's quite a useful terms. At first, when I was first going to court and at a legal aid lawyer, I met a guy who was a lifetime prisoner with tattoos all over me. And he was like, I'm gonna give you some tips when you go to jail, but I was like, Okay. And he said, you know, you got to keep it very tidy because some people's homes and he said, you know, said what's your cover story going to be? I said, Well, why cover story? I'm, I'm a whistleblower, and you know, fighting the government. I can't see what's going to beat me up and he was like, no, no, no. He said, they're gonna beat you up. He said, he said, I might even understand what a whistle blower is. He said, I thought was you I'd say you killed your sergeant. And I made a mental note. I thought I'm gonna get a bigger tattoo. And then And then he said, Well, how many years you're facing anyone? I said, Well, it's unlimited. And he said, What do you mean? I said, it's unlimited. And he said, Well, what? 500 years? I said, yeah, maybe 800? I said you possibly if they just had a bad day? Who knows? And he was like, you're going to do all right. He said, they might give you a double sell. So that was one of the Dan Ilic  45:24  opioids. When you went through the process of, you know, whistleblowing, did you ever think, oh, geez, I wish I hadn't had exposed the war criminals. Yeah, David McBride  45:37  I know, I never thought that I must have been, I never thought they were low. In the position I'm in now, where it looks like, you know, I could be going to jail for a long time for doing what I thought was the right thing. But I do sometimes think I've got to sue Hollywood, flick back, he gives me these ideas. Somehow that was the right thing to do. When actually, it was obviously a very dangerous, like Unknown Speaker  45:58  a few good men that lets me maybe David McBride  46:01  get a big class, I could be the richest person to jail and never get to be able to spend that money. Dan Ilic  46:06  The sad thing is like, if you sell your story that goes really well, as a feature film, that would be terrible. It's quite remarkable what you've done. It's a it's a real act of service for democracy. And it's really astounding, that we all know what, you know, our defense force has done on our behalf. And I think we're all better off than knowing that Does your family know that your hero David McBride  46:35  could ever be a hero to your family. And I've tried to, I tried to try to pull the hero card a couple of times that they kids, when they're playing after they kind of want this, they want more money for the dress or something. And I'm like, Look, it's it's pretty hard for me and I am standing up for what is right and for your future and your children's future. And, and they go roll their eyes and they go dead. That's all very well when you get to get an actual job. So it doesn't cut my job. That's for sure ever with my ex wife. And I was like, telling her about try to break the news to her that the cops could be coming in numbers. I'd had secret documents that I was like, Look at Skinner, for taking on the Defence Force. And she was like, Oh, that's wonderful. Darlings was good. The falling and nails. And then I'm like I tried to make she didn't seem that impressed. I'm like, I'm really taking on the whole government that she's like, oh, yeah, that's good, darling. And I'm like, she wasn't very impressed. And I was trying to get a bit of hero. Record here. I create exactly what you think you get. And I'm like, an effectively because orchestrate everything I'm really taking on the American government and the CIA. You're upping the stakes. Yeah, I'm Unknown Speaker  47:56  trying to get a bit of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. David McBride  47:59  She's looking at a little bit of rough nails going on. It's nice, darling. She said, But I remember I've got Pilates tonight. So make sure you're home to pick up the kids job. Dan Ilic  48:10  Yeah. When you're going through the process of whistleblow. What's the most absurd thing that you kind of encountered in with the authorities? You know, what's, what's the craziest thing? David McBride  48:20  There's a lot that this is, you know, I went through all the secret files when I decided something was very wrong. And that offense was and I spent about six months working at night, looking for incriminating documents. And I got download them all and gave them to the ABC and said, Look, these ones, they're all selected. They're all I've highlighted the sections. Anyway, I knew these documents very well. And I'd selected them and that's why I'm facing trial. But when I was on trial, they used to take us into the Attorney General's office and especially as with all the documents were extensively to prepare our case. We're security guards and tourney generals, people watching us prepare our case in secret. And the documents were there and they were like to put it to me, he can't look at the documents because he doesn't have a security clearance at least classified and I'm like, I know what's in the fucking the documents I stole. They're like no, no exceptions. You can't look at them. And so then they these documents is precious documents. And as the time went on, I had to move them around in a safe the security guards would come around. And I think they got sick of it at one time. They had to call us up and said well, you can't have the documents today because the consignment order got mixed up and they've you know, gone to a double glazing office and we're trying to get them back as soon as we can. Kate McClymont  49:53  Do they arrested double glazed Dan Ilic  49:58  the rest of the Korea they came back and now framed Well, David, thank you for joining us. I hope we can get you again soon before at least before or after Lewis Hobba  50:18  everyone understand that no, fuck yeah. That's right. We're about to get dangerous. This guy's standing up. Okay. Now secrets. We all have them. People on this panel they don't like a much zeal for disclosure is almost religious, but I'm an agnostic member in the church of full disclosure bit like the actual church. Boy, do they have some secrets? Of course some secrets deserve to be revealed. But be honest. Every now and then. A journalist uncovered something and you think to yourself, wish you hadn't told me that? Like why is it that we still don't know if the Queen killed Diana, but we do know that King Charles wants to be his wife's tampon didn't help me to know that hasn't stopped him being king. What's the point? You've just made me sad? I don't want to know these types of secrets. Oh, I haven't been out asleep for years because of this. But people like you had to go digging around. You know, when this whole thing broke the other nationals MP who thought that Barnaby should be sacked for cheating on his wife was this guy. And then you know what secrets the damn journalists found out about him. They found out that he'd been chatting to a woman who wasn't his wife using a sugar baby website. And that could have been enough. You could have stopped there. But no, you had to tell me the sex heroes. Do you remember this? When the woman said that she liked her Australian accent and he wrote I pull your clothes. Run my strong hands down your back. Softly kiss your neck and whisper get a mate I still shudder every time someone says g'day to me. I can't you journalist has put out an article every week that says old men still gross. This specifics are ruining me. And it's not just the gross secret. See, though, like this week, someone discovered that a glazier in Chile had collapsed. No, keep that to yourself. You know, I know climate change is happening but I can't stop the glaciers from falling in Chile. I'd love to but I can and it's stressing me out. Some things are need to know right? But some things I don't need to know some things. I just need to know that the people who need to know know you know. You can just leave me out of it. Like journalists need to remember that snitches get stitches. He is a dangerous idea for you, Zipit knowing everything that's your interest. It's a great hobby. Keep it to yourself. Oh, great. You found out that the Prime Minister had 10 Secret jobs and gave out hundreds of millions of dollars. So they were basically bribes. Oh, good. Good. Now I'm confused and angry. Oh, great. We found out that dead shit politicians getting paid millions to move overseas when they get chased out of their current jobs here for being shitted them. Oh, great. Well, now I have to think about that. Well, I have to go to my poorly paid work and be competent. It's killing me. I think every journalist should be restricted to one secret per annum. On your birthday, you can tell me one secret as a treat 364 days to plan your next one. Just give me a chance to recover. And you want to be a whistleblower? Great. You can only blow one whistle at a time. I don't want to be told any more about all people secretly fucking their staff or publicly fucking the planet. Like I want to know the secret to cooking a good pizza at home. One that tastes as good as a restaurant. How do they do it? I want to know the secret to ordering clothes online that fit me the first I just want to know the secret to not being anxious all the time. And I think that starts with not knowing This stuff. Thank you. Dan Ilic  55:02  Thank you Liz. That is it for rational Phoebe kinky for our guests. Dylan Lewis and Damien diamond MacDrive also big thanks to Robert mark our new patreon supporters Kelly Katherine Jenny the new work Daniel hobby Cecily Hardy Beck flight the official Avengers it has taken Brandon Aptech and our tech team here. Until next time, there's always something to be scared of Good night. Your fear is rational Dan Ilic  0:00  Oh, hello everyone. Yay round of applause We haven't even done anything. It's it's fantastic.Joy. We're recording a live podcast of our show. So you are an integral part of the show. So it's important to clap and cheer and laugh at all the jokes no matter the quality of the jokes. Yeah, that's right. Yes. Like,move that person to the front. Yeah. Well, we've got a seat down here for you. Particularly at the top. At the very start of the show. Dan likes to start the show with three big jokes. terrible jokes very, very in quality.And they are wafting. Terrible, yeah, really.Lewis Hobba  0:42  For his sake. I beg if you clap, and she just pretend they're really good.Dan Ilic  0:49  It's a format point of the show. We want to we want to be as close to the weekly as possible.Lewis Hobba  0:56  It's gonna be a really fun show. This is an incredible house. And let's firstly just give it a huge round of applause. Yeah. Carriageworks festival dangerous idea.Dan Ilic  1:03  Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm Dan. And I'm Louis. Yeah. And we'll introduce these folks in a second. All right, great. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on Gadigal land in the urination sovereignty was never seated when at a treaty. Let's start the show.Simon Chilvers  1:17  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:31  leaked documents show that top defense officials were kept in the dark about submarine contracts. When asked about it, Scott Morrison said he wouldn't talk about ongoing underwater matters.And in order to increase transparency Anthony Albanese auditor or government ministers to leave their dream journals unlocked. And Governor General David Hurley becomes a Patreon supporter of irrational fear. No jokes. He is the best Governor General ever. Viva la Governor General. It's the 17th of September 2022. And you'll if you're listening to this it means I'm in a secret prison in Tuggeranong. This is a rationalirrational fear on your hosts former sovereign Daniel itch and this is the show live at the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. This is the podcast where we make fun of the toughest topics because you know if we don't we try. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's been uncovering lies in Sydney for over 25 years. Tonight we'll ask her for her tips about how to lie to her face. It's the host of Leia Leia, Kate McClymont.Now Kate is not what we're talking about tonight. But everyone in this room wants to know did the husband do it?Kate McClymont  2:55  Oh, you haven't left me with a foot to stand on.Dan Ilic  3:00  Don't be fooled by this man's accent. He's so Australian. He makes the rest of us look like immigrants from the New York Times it's Damien caves. Damien when it comes to learning about Australia, is this something you haven't quite mastered yet?Damien Cave  3:15  You know, I just discovered what it means to have a smoker still there.Dan Ilic  3:22  And she's covered everything this year from Canberra to Kyiv tonight will be her toughest assignment yet, please give it up for Amber shocks.And as a cranky journalist who is more transparent Russia or AustraliaAmber Schultz  3:39  spends the metrics transparent about body composition that's transparent about ability to succumb to peer pressure. That's elbow.Dan Ilic  3:49  And he's the former Australian Defense Lawyer turn whistleblower now professional panel guest is David McBride. David, is there anything funny about the being the enemy of the state?David McBride  4:04  Well, it certainly makes your dating life a lot better. Say, Oh, I'm a lawyer. They're like, Oh, sickness, my boyfriend. You say I'm facing unlimited time in jail. You must beDan Ilic  4:22  really up for a one night stand.Very day. And he's a government employee who's seen too much. And he's come here tonight to say enough is enough. It's Louis harbor. Lewis some. What secrets will you be revealing tonight?What secrets? Yeah. Gosh, I'm gonna tell you. I can't What can I tell you who's gonna win the 100 100 next? The audience here would probably really care about that. All thesepeople are aging into the demographic. And he's on the paths and paths tonight is still in vain for the news fighters podcast.Oh, this is great. Well, what a stellar lineup, we have got more influence and power on this panel than inside Scott Morrison's head. It's very exciting. And I don't blame him for signing up for more than one job. There's, there's, of course a labor crisis going on. It's very hard to find good help. We'll have more on the Morrison ministries a little later on. In fact, we'll hear from all of our fear mongers in just a second. But first, I'm going to do a bit of a deep dive to set the context for tonight's performances. I'm here to tell a story. There's an island in the Pacific that is on the verge of autocracy, its leaders have acquired a huge amount of power over its citizens. They raid journalists are reporting on crimes the state has committed, they lock up whistleblowers, for calling out corruption. If doctors and teachers talk about the jobs on social media, they could go to jail. And they banned reporting on certain modes of transport. So where the bloody hell are you? Well, if you answer that question out loud, you could go to jail, but I say because I'm brave. I'm not a coward. It's New Zealand and we need to keep an eye on. No, it's us. It's Australia. Prior to the National Security Information Act of 2004. The top three Australian secrets were the Vegemite recipe, the Australia two winged keel and Harold Holtz post Prime Ministerial career as a taxi driver in Bundaberg. No one ever talks about it. That's it. That's all the secrets we had in Australia, pre 2004. There was, of course, our Pine Gap. But that's more of an American CSR secret. Yeah. And the only person that can lose their job if they talk about is the prime minister. Everything else? Yes. Oh, because everything else is on the table until 911, which was or in Australia's case, our 911 was the tamper crisis. And that's when the National Information Security Act came in. And then the She'll be right. No walk and fairies version of Australia was locked away in John Howard's basement never to be seen again. Instead, we have a bunch of legislation that makes transparency harder than ever. The National Information Security Act is one thing up is the big one. Okay. Anything deemed by the government that is of a national security risk can't be reported on or it can't even go to court. And if it does go to court, you'll never hear about it. Like the case of witness J discovered in 2019, a person who was secretly jailed in the ICT, we don't know their name. We don't know their crime, their sentence or what they were sentence for. The only thing we do know is what they might look like thanks to a court sketch from the secret trial. Yeah. Look around you. It could be could be any one of us and how we know they exist in the first place was that they actually writing a memoir in jail. And the AFP went and raided their cell and they were so pissed off that the AFP raided their cell to take their memoir away. They took the ICT government to court to complain about it, and then we only find out about it because a Judge Burns read it out in court. And everyone's like, what the fuck with this secret guy got from? There was witness Kay a secret trial against a whistleblower who revealed that Australian secret agents bugged East Timor Prime Minister's office when we were negotiating Castile that was in 2004. That deal got torn up went to The Hague. There's a whole deal. They got renegotiated again, and then it wasn't until 2014. Witness Kay went to trial in secret in Australia, a decade later. Now, this should be concerning, because we don't know how many secret cases there are like this. They could be 1000s. I'm not an expert. But I think we should definitely investigate witnesses a true i. Now, that's one part secret trials, right. A couple of other things you should think about is this misnamed Freedom of Information Act, because it's not free, and you don't get any information. Journalists or anyone who is interested can actually request documents from the government. But it costs a shitloads of money. And if you're a journalist, it can take forever and go past your deadline. And they're pretty much useless when it comes back. When news organizations have the resources and time to challenge the government. It's a whole process, you got to go through the Information Commissioner, the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, and then the federal court. And that process can take up to three fucking years to do that which case in our hypothetical, that journalist would have been laid off by several news organizations. But on the upside is now working inside the Prime Minister and Cabinet so they can look at all the documents they want. And then this is this is the national cabinet, a regular meeting of premiers and First Ministers and the Prime Minister. It was created during COVID to talk about what COVID Presumably, we actually don't know because it's secret. South Australia might want to change the size of their rail gauge again and ruin the dream to boomers across the country in the Indian Pacific. We don't know we need to know. We just have a minute song. So that joke.Really excited for that. Used to be called COAG I don't know if anyone remembers this. The Commonwealth Heads of Government But it was changed for two reasons. First of all, it sounded like a brand of glue. And then Scott Morrison renamed the national cabinet that so he could basically claim that all the meetings were cabinet in confidence like the real Commonwealth cabinet, but it's not. It's just made up. Morrison just fucking made it upLewis Hobba  10:21  for now he's a cabinet maker as well. He's a cabinet maker.Scott Morrison  10:29  That was good. Thank you.Dan Ilic  10:32  Thank you, sir. You're allowed to lobby. You don't have to say that was good. But I'll tell you.There are heroes on this island like the Auditor General whose great work includes sifting through tons of Excel spreadsheets to find any anomalies exposed waste and conflicts of interest. Here's what the Auditor General has done in the last little bit. You may remember the leppington triangles sportswriting carpark roads. Yeah, pretty good. What an incredible group of public service heroes give a round of applause pretty amazing work and what was their reward? Well, the Morison government defunded the pump by $14 million. Meaning that the Australian National Audit Office can now only complete 38 audits a year 38. That's not many. I think Angus Taylor has more offshore bank accounts than that. So yeah, I don't know if you've picked up a trend here. But these secrecy laws have been around a while, but it seems like they've only been used in the last 10 years or so.It could have gotten into power 10 years or so. Is anyone who got their theory first public ministry 10 years or so. One prominent Senior Counsel Geoggrey Watson points the day that transparency died in Australia. Here's the exact date transparency died on Friday, the eighth of November 2013. It happened at a media briefing called then by the Immigration Minister Scott Morrison, you may remember it the overnightUnknown Speaker  11:55  incident. What's become a vet photo of asylum seekers. I will not comment further in relation to onboarding matters. Thank you. This is a great public intro. In relation to on water matters. Have they been coming further in relation to on water matters? I think we've dealt with that question.Unknown Speaker  12:16  And in terms of making that judgment, if they've done something because do customer Australia, doesn't that mean that your tax base policyScott Morrison  12:22  is kind of? Well, you've made a whole bunch of presumptions there, which I'm not about to speculate, maybe you can make them up for? Well, you're the one making the presumptions that mayUnknown Speaker  12:30  be the case of the overnight incident is not resolved. And that's why more information is not forthcoming. It's an ongoingScott Morrison  12:35  operational matter. And the persons that were at risk have all been accounted for. We're not going to go into the micro detail of these operational matters. What we are saying is that we rendered assistance, and all the people and all the people have been accounted for. So we can go around this for a lot longer. But that is the position. Scary what you get now, isn't it? Wow,Dan Ilic  13:01  absolutely wild. You'll remember that.David McBride  13:03  You notice Angus Campbell, before he becameDan Ilic  13:07  chief of the defense straight after this? Yeah, like a year later, he was a chief of talent spawn. Yeah, so if you remember, do you remember that phrase, I will not comment in relation to home order matters, man. It was unrepeated every press conference for like six months until the press got bored and stopped going to those press conferences. He was even number five on the hottest 100 of that. Which is amazing. Also, it was on afternoon game shows as well. TheUnknown Speaker  13:33  final question was $7,000 Go to you go take a look at this picture. What's the well known catchphrase? It's an ongoing operational matter. Close Hey, I bet the audience knows what it was sadly, Scott, you missed out on the $7,000 which isn't enough to buy you a journalist. These are the happy you get anyway, tonight.Scott Morrison  14:06  Yeah, I didn't get a logo.Dan Ilic  14:09  That joke relies so heavily on people remembering birthdays catch.Instead of showing the first competition is shown.As Jeffrey watched an SC put it there was a hint in those words that it might have something to do with national security. But that was never the case. There was no evidence was ever produced at once the government got away with it once they got a taste for it. And that kind of secrecy is alluring and has an addictive quality. As what's inputted to me by phone, just like in sports. Once one side of the game starts cheating and gets away with it. Both sides start cheating and we're already seeing labor, hinting that they will continue on with national cabinet in secret. So this is where we are on this island today laws designed to protect its citizens instead use to protect the fragile egos of megalomaniacs. We elect. Yeah. And it seems today everything on this island is secret for no good reason as Damian cave put it in a great 2019 article titled Australian might be the world's most secretive democracy. This is what he wrote. The most recent expansion of government secrecy came last year with an espionage bill would increase criminal penalties for sharing information declassified, even if even if a document happened to be as harmless as a cafeteria menu. So the other day, I tested it out, I reached out to Aziz cafe, in the middle of Parliament House, you need a pass to get into it. Or the politicians and lobbyists go there. And I sent them a text and asked them to send me a photo of the menu and they sent it through. Fantastic and don't worry, the sources were redacted.And in case you're wondering, they're the soup of the day is chicken. Yeah, so the guyapparently got a problem for me to check. That's good, though. Very happy. So there we go. ever run a Festival of Dangerous Ideas, please give it up for Damien cage.Damien Cave  16:12  Thank you. Thanks. So when I when I wrote that article, actually, you know, people thought I was crazy, calling Australia this extremely secretive democracy. But now that we have a prime minister with lots of secret jobs, maybe it's not so crazy. And maybe it's not just a crazy American who's, who's saying it? You know, since I wrote that story, there have been many more examples, lots of which you went into. But, you know, I think it's important to recognize that it's not just Canberra that this problem exists in. And, you know, I run into it all over the country when I'm dealing with people as a reporter. And I have a small story, a small example that will show you just how much it handles some of the most important issues at the local level. Like, can we get this image perhaps the giant banana, giant caveman banana? Let me back up for a minute. So we have a newsletter that The New York Times publishes every week called the Australia letter, which is basically a reporter riffing about the news of the week with a little bit of perspective. And so one week better, Odell was a wonderful writer for us. And Melbourne said, you know, I want to write about this public art thing. It's involves bananas and frogs and, and babies, and I had no idea what she was talking about. But I figured, yeah, for sure, go for it. So shockingly, after it runs, I get this email from somebody that says the subject line is immediate removal of article. And I'm wondering what on earth this is about, right. So I look in and I see that it's about the newsletter, which makes me go back and try to understand what this giant banana he-man thing is all about. And it turns out that there was an exchange being offered between, you know, a local council in Melbourne, and John Oliver, the comedian who John basically wanted to take this lovely piece of art off the hands of Melbourne and trade, and give them basically some frogs with some legs that were open a little bit wider than his approach. And along with that, he also had some babies that had been washed up on the shore and Texas, beautiful babies like this. And so he offered to trade these wonderful pieces of art for the he-man Banana. Basha was in favor of this plan. She loved the frogs, I think. So as you can see, this was a serious job of public interest journalism in Australia's greatest interests, which is why I was really surprised when I got an email and concerned I should say, and the subject line was immediate removal of article. I mean, that's a pretty big request. We don't take down articles from the New York Times, sometimes we attach a correction, maybe an Editor's Note, but take it down, I literally can't think of a single time that that's happened. And I worry that there must be some serious flaw in what beshear had written. But no, it turns out that the person in local government had an email exchange with her about whether the dollars could go into the recycling machine. And she was quoted as saying, and this is the exact quote, I don't know what the dolls are made of. So I can't officially comment either way. She wrote that in the email that her name was attached, and that it wasn't supposed to be because she did not consent to it, and was not an authorized spokesperson for the council, this council policy, she said, so at this point, I feel kind of bad. And I'm wondering like maybe this is just the person who happened to be in the office that day. So I go out and I look on LinkedIn and I discover that her actual title is Senior Advisor for media and communications. We had a bit more back and forth by email and she said that she was when she was quoted it was always without a name. Now at no point in this exchange with special did she request anonymity not that we would have granted it but the whole thing started to feel pretty ridiculous to me. I mean, here's a person who was being paid with tax dollars to give the media information demanding an article be spiked because she kind of did her job with a weird nothing burger. Have a comment about scary rubbery baby dolls. Like really, this is how far down the rabbit hole Australian secrecy is gone. But the thing is, I'd been around and I could also see this It really wasn't just her fault, right? This was bigger than her. This council did have a secrecy policy for almost everything. And everyone, just like Australia has a secrecy default for far too many things. As Dan mentioned, it's a habit, it gets addictive. She was just following the written and unwritten rules for the world's most secretive democracy. And I was pretty sure she didn't even see the context that way. So I tried to write back to her politely. And this is what I wrote. The problem here, it seems to me is the Australian practice of withholding names. In general, if you work for a public entity in a democracy, anonymity is not assumed you work for the public at taxpayer expense. And so in the future, if you don't want to be named, please make that clear in your exchange with New York Times reporters, and we can respond accordingly. She wrote me back and said, Thank you. This has been a huge lesson for me, in terms of dealing with reporters. Now again, this was her job.Scott Morrison  20:50  So she was she was the senior media advisor.Damien Cave  20:53  Yeah, exactly. Now, I wish that this was the only absurd example of Australia secrecy default in the years since I wrote that article, but it's not. There was also the time when I filed a public records request for some insight and what kinds of things the Foreign Investment Review Board was rejecting. I started out asking for companies and industries in the countries involved for every decision, I wanted to basically know what kinds of things were being rejected from China, in particular what or not, they said no to that. So then I just asked for numbers, lands statistics for which countries had applied and been rejected. I asked for ratios of accepted investments, anything that would give me any insight into what this very important government body was doing. And they said no to all of it. They just assumed it was a national security threat, whether or not China bought a dairy farm or not. More recently, and I'll end with this, I run into a senior Australian diplomat at an event who told me a handful of mildly insightful things about Australian foreign policies. At the end of our little chat, he looked at me in the eyes and he said, You can't quote or refer to anything I told you. I told them not to worry that I've been talking to a lot of Western officials from the US the UK a whole bunch of things on this story I was working on. So the most that I could imagine doing was combining what he said with others, and referring it to something like Western officials, in his eyes when Drew wide with fear. No, I've gotten in trouble for that. I've gotten in trouble for that, too. You can't do that you just can't. And again, none of what he told me amounted to state secrets, but he was completely stressed. It was like he feared being jailed or fired or killed for saying very, very little out. And that's really the problem here. The culture of secrecy has become so dominant in Australia that it muzzles, voices and sensors, people who are responsible for this democracy. Instead of recognizing that their roles include an obligation to the public to explain why they are what they are doing is good for the country. They behave as if telling the media and the public anything is a violation of ethics. And they are disciplined with that priority in mind, stay silent, keep information private, or else. Don't make any mistake. This is an authoritarian instinct. I've seen it in dictatorships around the world, and it's toxic and contagious. It's an attitude that strikes fear into everyone and anyone who has an urge to share important information that we deserve to know. One more thing, though some figures in Australian life, perhaps that former Prime Minister perhaps another member who we've tussled with, I think in the media quite a bit named Peter Dutton, have a far worse reputation on secrecy than others. But it is not a partisan problem. It's a political problem and a power problem and a habit problem. Even after Scott Morrison took on all those extra jobs, you did not see the Albanese government immediately promised to tackle the problem of secrecy all over government. And it's not clear if the Prime Minister ever will get around to dealing with it. This is the case even though countless studies show that secrecy undermines trust in democracy and creates the conditions for corruption and mismanagement. Australians really deserve better. My hope is that someday we get to a place where every official can speak freely, including those who have something to say about a gross baby doll washing up on shore, or a banana he-man public art project andDavid McBride  23:54  I want to jump in because what you said rang true and I and I get it forget it later. But the they had a thing in the defense was about privacy, the Privacy Act, and I think people understood the idea obviously, you don't want people finding out about your sexual preference or whatever, because through some sort of a lake, but they took it very seriously. And we were in in dropping bombs on people in the Middle East. And I kid you not. There was like a senior defense lawyer. It was sort of like targeting this terrorist. It's gonna say to say a Hellfire besar they were like, I'm not sure we may be breaching their privacy guideposts the whole actionDan Ilic  24:42  Damian has anything else? Kind of you've been here five years. Does anything else surprise you at all now due to kind of around secrecy in Australian Government?Damien Cave  24:51  You know, I think I'm constantly surprised by moments like the one I just described where it's it's so deeply ingrained in the culture that the default setting is to just not attach a name or under an understanding of accountability at the low, low level. So that's the first thing. It's just throughout the culture. And then the second thing is, though, that I'm so pleasantly surprised when people actually trust me and do help me like there was one time I was in like the small town in South Australia doing a story about I think there was a it was a memorial to a massacre against the local Aboriginal people. And somebody in government, this was a very, really big controversial conflict in this small town. But someone quietly at some point, handed me the small blue book, and he said, This is the phone numbers for everyone in this town. You can call it whatever you want. Don't tell anyone I gave. And I don't know why he trusted me with that. But I'm so grateful to those people who, who, you know, feel that they've taken a chance on me as a journalist, and I'm and that surprises me, because it's so rare, unfortunately. Yeah.Dan Ilic  25:49  Great. And what was the diplomat? What was he saying to you? Was he saying stuff? Like, you know, we sell a lot of shape in Australia.Damien Cave  25:56  You know, he was like talking about like other leaders and like things that were totally part of the public record. Like, I think he maybe he thought he was saying these brilliant things, but I'd heard all of it. ButAmber Schultz  26:06  how much that has trickled down to normal conversation for I'll have dinner with a friend and they're just talking about the average Wednesday and they'll stop themselves and they'll be like, this is off the record.Unknown Speaker  26:17  Yeah, exactly.Damien Cave  26:18  That sense of self importance to I guess it's part of the secrecy thing. It's like whatever I'm doing it. I think it helps people sort of feel important to feel as though the menu for a restaurant might be secret.Dan Ilic  26:27  All right, great. Well, I'm looking forward to the next secret spilled by Amber Schultz.Amber Schultz  26:38  Last week, I went to this really glamorous event called the midwinter ball. So for those of you that don't know it's in Parliament, and it's an opportunity for journalists to cosplay as stage three tax cut recipients. We all go and the whole point of the event is to suck up to politicians and staffers and lobbyists. But what's weird is the entire thing as soon as you step through those doors, the entire event is off the record. It's all secret, which why you would have an event invite journalists and keep it off the record bewilders me it's not an ACO meeting. It's not an August meeting because if it was Scott Morrison would have leaked the Testaments and it's not despite what Senator Sarah Hanson young seem to think Met Gala event is the parliamentary ball. You know, Australia is addicted to secrecy. We've got witness que je lawyer X, you know, it sounds like a wiggle soul was Scott Morrison's ministerial appointments, whistleblowers a silence secret midwinter ball speeches, it's absolutely absurd. freedom of information requests in Australia across the past decade, have been rejected 50% year on year, those that are accepted, which is rare, but those that are accepted return pages upon pages of redacted information, so you just get a wall of black and it makes trying to figure out what the hell is going on about as difficult as reading a George RR Martin novel. But well, the government doesn't want to share any information with the public. It turns out the public is really, really happy to share information with the government. Yeah, we are we're a nation of dubbers. We love snitching It's absolutely absurd. And we didn't start like this. You know, Australia is, you know, our colonial history is a nation of convicts, and obviously the convicts aren't snitching, because the ones that snitched got stay in England. Our snitching culture is the result of some really, really successful marketing campaigns. So the government really does want whistleblowers that really wants people to come forward with information, provided, you're coming forward with information about Gen three doors down. So the first marketing campaign was Crimestoppers that started in the 80s. And that's been really successful. There's like 350,000 Tip offs per year. And about half of those actually result in a police report, which is hugely successful. And then of course, 911 happened and the government decided we need a national security hotline, we need something more tailored to terrorism. And conveniently, a lot of these national security hotline campaigns were released during elections because nothing else buys a vote like fear. So we had the if you see something, say something we had Be alert, not alarmed, and we had if it doesn't add up, speak up, we moved from loose lips sink ships to spy on your neighbor. It's normal behavior. But you know, a lot of these national security tips obviously a steeped in racism and prejudice. So Australia, we are trying to be better we are trying to be, you know, less divisive, more inclusive. So COVID presented a really fantastic opportunity of that because it meant we could dive on our neighbors regardless of race or background or socioeconomic class. It's progress, really. There was one example so there was so many people calling the police on one another often for really, really trivial things. One example was woman she's sitting home and she sees a photo scrolling through photos and she sees one where she looks absolutely shredded in her bikini from a holiday a year ago. She decides to post it on Facebook and suddenly the police are at a door. One of her Facebook friends saw that photo thought it was current and called the police on Yeah, that's how much we love snitching you know and you're worried about Zuckerberg spying on you. It's not so good for your old high school friend from 20 years ago. You know, we love snitching we have a dubbing hotline for almost everything. We have Dobbin a dealer that was launched in 2016. And DUBNER dealer has actually seen since the campaign launched, the number of people calling up about dealers double it's been really successful. Unfortunately, unfortunately, a tip off about AFLW style way Macquarie's dealer turned up nothing but crushed up bags of ibuprofen. It's a real hit and miss. We've got the job seeker Dobbin hotline which was cruelly caused it's not funny.Kate McClymont  31:07  Scott Morrison was ringing constantly.Amber Schultz  31:12  Which was currently called Adobe and Adobe Lightroom. Now that wasn't actually as successful because people didn't, you know, didn't really like the idea of dubbing in someone on the doll. But the people that did complain was small to medium businesses who said people that had applied for their jobs had lied on their CV, which is really funny because it just means the public is looking to John Barilaro. And taking a bit of a we also were used to we don't know, but we used to even have a hotline to dub in mislabeled seafoods. That's how much we love dubbing. Yeah. Yeah, there was a specific one for mislabeled seafood. Wow.Damien Cave  31:47  Sounds like a micro detail.Scott Morrison  31:50  RAM sticks.Amber Schultz  31:53  So tip offs and Dobbins are a dime a dozen. I mean in this economy, who knows, but really a diamond doesn't. So while you can't know what subpar jokes Albanese staff wrote for him at the midwinter ball speech he can know about that job interview, you didn't show up for you know, he can know about that crushed up bag of ibuprofen you bought, or he can know about that weird photo you posted on Facebook. So while the government you know, wants information from you, but only wants really, really trivial trivial information, you know, try snitching about something of importance and you know the thing snitches get stitches closed or prosecutionDan Ilic  32:37  and, you know, it costs money to do foi stuff. But what's the most you've ever cost Crikey. In your career as a journalist,Amber Schultz  32:48  I probably set a record for the fastest lawsuit from a new hire because I hit three days and immediately got a consent notice. So, you know, I don't know if you know this. But Craig, he has a very long rich history of being sued for defamation. So I was proud to join that on day three.Dan Ilic  33:05  It's kind of interesting, like you're talking about midway to Boulder, and the inverse, the immediate comparison is the White House press correspondents dinner in DC and which is like public broadcast celebrities, everyone wants to go to it. It's like, if you're a leader and you're at that event, you are going to get roasted and you if you if you fuck up on stage, you're going to eat it in front of everyone. It's like that is like the absolute icon of like that when you look at both countries, Australia and America, that's like transparency back to backanytime you are looking at America with respect and thinking like that they are more relaxed than us. Like, we need to have a good hard look at ourselves. It's like secret dinners for the whatever for the President and wave laws. Like what are we doing? Yeah, but it's weird those because we there's a not a bowl but there's a annual invite by ABC employee like the a bunch of ABC employees get basically instructed to go down to Parliament House and kiss the ring to suck up tour, isn't it? Well, yeah. And so one no, well, one year I was told to go down and as you know, the face of youth as I was back then and and it's so weird because obviously all politicians hate young people. So they were just like, get the fuck out of here. But then they everyone was like all of the ABC celebs out there trying to like impress you know, someone who would give us money and they didn't give a shit until b one and B two came out. And those politicians were fucking bananas. Like they were all grabbing photo like they were so excited. We're just like, well, I just wouldn't got drunk with Costathose politicians weren't obviously from Fitzroy. Exactly. And but when you're around Parliament House lately, can you tell If there's like a tone changed since the new government is coming like is there, is there a different feeling around the press color?Amber Schultz  35:07  There is I mean slightly. We've got the little, like little postcards that have the one 800 parliamentary support services number on it, but that they're everywhere. But aside from that, the only difference is people constantly if anyone like gets too close or accidentally brushes past someone, someone will yell Jenkins about the only difference.Dan Ilic  35:28  That's great. It's easy to make fun of the press gallery for kind of hypocrisy. They're under pressure from the government. It it's kind of interesting to see over the last couple of years how news reports have changed, particularly under the Morison government I don't know if you've noticed. Here's a clip from Channel 10 News.Unknown Speaker  35:48  Here are the headlines approved by the Department of Communications on 10. The Royal Commission into how good is Australia has found that Australia is very good and colder than many estimates predicted. The Department of Fair go agrees with the findings saying that Aussies are getting fair a goes and more goes than ever before. And Australia's most prestigious honor the Order of Australia is having a makeover with a brand new category added to the list. So move over items and AM's there's a new metal on the podium. It's the QA, which will be awarded to the most quiet Australian and that's someone who excels at showing complete disinterest in the affairs of government and goes about their day unquestioning the world around them. Nominations are now open. So good luck to everyone. And in sports, Australia's cricket team are the best and they will win the ashes if any of the current deliver want to see the loved ones again, turning to the weather, despite what it looks like out of the window, it is fine. And definitely average temperatures for this time of year. Definitely not white hotter than usual. That is, of course all the approved news for now in the greatest country in the world. And remember, it's on Australian to not have private health insurance.Unknown Speaker  37:09  Ladies and gentlemen,Dan Ilic  37:10  please give it up for Kate McClymontKate McClymont  37:19  Right, I'm going to give you some tips tonight on how to avoid me. So I find now that often when I ring people up, I can hear them and I say, oh, it's Kate McClymont. Here, I can hit and go. But anyway, if you want to be secret, one of the things I want to advise you is not to buy a voice distorter. So I did have someone ring up to give me some very highly confidential information. And they've gone to the trouble of buying a voice distorter and it did sound like a crazed robot. But the information was absolutely fabulous. And I said at the end of the conversation, thank you so much. And now I can get you on this number for safe forgotten. Voice distorter that number still came up. Don't buy voice disorder. And too. If you want to remain secret, please use Australia Post snail mail, it's still the best way to send things. However, if you are one of the bead family, and you are sitting there sending me death threats, please wear gloves. Your fingerprints were on the envelope. And on the inside. So gloves if you really don't want to be. And one other thing I'd like to advise Eddie obeyed was in the past. When I rang his office to get some questions. He forgot to hang up. The phone on and I listened for 20 minutes, as they discussed how they were going to lie to me what they were going to say. And in the end, I had to call in on the office spoke. And I said look, Eddie, it's been so lovely hearing you talk about me. It's been so lovely hearing your plants. However, I really need a comment and I just heard them go off. They hung up. Another thing is that when a major crime figure has died, don't go behind the crypt at the funeral to discuss where the money is. This happened at many Macpherson's funeral, and I'd already been threatened so I thought I would hide behind the crypt. But on the other side of the crypt was Lenny McPherson solicitor, who was chatting away about where the money was hidden, what companies they had. So that was very handy. And having said those things I Do want to just take one moment to say that I am also an idiot when it comes to, you know, giving my own things away, Louis reminded me today that I accidentally sent a pin with my location on it to the head of the Hells Angels. Caitlin climber is here. Not so good. Then I sent a photo of my ear. How would you take a photo of your ear and send it, but I sent that to one of my colleagues who thought I, somebody had cut it off. And I was like, and then the last thing I did was that I did have my phone in my pocket. And I sent a whole lot of gibberish to Twitter. And people contacted me saying, should they call the police? Had I been kidnapped? Had I been kidnapped? And was this a secret cry for help? So I would just like to say that I too, like many of the criminals I cover am an idiotDan Ilic  41:10  Do you ever feel honestly feel like your life is in danger?Kate McClymont  41:16  I always take the one of my contacts who was a detective said to me, Kate, don't worry about the ones that threaten you. It's the ones that don't. And I did get a death threat death threat delivered to my house and that did have 303 on it. And I said to my husband what that's actually our address 303 And he said it's a rifle, you idiot. And it doesn't help when you don't actually understand that you are a threat to your own house. Oh,Dan Ilic  41:47  so if we were to send a death threat to you, what's the best kind ofKate McClymont  41:53  with the with the fingerprints? And whatDan Ilic  41:55  is the best way to actually stay secret from me rather than you know all the mistakes? But like, How does someone? How does someone truly avoid Kate McLemore?Kate McClymont  42:03  No, it's very hard. Because the first thing I do is, if you come across my radar, the first thing to do is don't behave badly. That's how you can avoid me. But the first thing I do is I will do an ASIC search. If you have a company, I will find out how old you were where you used to live, whether you've got a mortgage on your house, how much you paid for your house, who lives next door who lives on the other side? What is your phone number? SoDan Ilic  42:30  is there like other ways that you do that publicly available?Kate McClymont  42:35  Just expensive. It's just expensive. I think I have the sort of an ASIC addiction in poker machines. I have that thing of doing an ASIC search, and my heart is racing. I'm waiting to find out who was in that company with that person. I love it.Dan Ilic  42:53  Some people pay for Paramount plus Did you ever pull up video bed and try to read negotiate a mortgage.Kate McClymont  43:03  Last time I did ring him up. He said to me, you put one word out of line and I will go for you. I will go for the jugular Have a nice day. SoDamien Cave  43:18  most friends say Have a nice day.Kate McClymont  43:20  He's now in jail. And I just think having to spend eternity with your son Mosers. PunishmentDan Ilic  43:37  David McBride is a former military officer who served with both the ADF and British armies in Ireland and Afghanistan. And he now faces unlimited years in jail after exposing cover ups of war crimes committed by Australians in Afghanistan, yet he did not get invited to the Queen's commemorations.Unknown Speaker  43:55  Everyone please welcome David O'Brien.Dan Ilic  44:03  David with unlimited jail on the cards, it must play havoc with your psyche. How you preparing?David McBride  44:12  It's quite a useful terms. At first, when I was first going to court and at a legal aid lawyer, I met a guy who was a lifetime prisoner with tattoos all over me. And he was like, I'm gonna give you some tips when you go to jail, but I was like, Okay. And he said, you know, you got to keep it very tidy because some people's homes and he said, you know, said what's your cover story going to be? I said, Well, why cover story? I'm, I'm a whistleblower, and you know, fighting the government. I can't see what's going to beat me up and he was like, no, no, no. He said, they're gonna beat you up. He said, he said, I might even understand what a whistle blower is. He said, I thought was you I'd say you killed your sergeant. And I made a mental note. I thought I'm gonna get a bigger tattoo. And then And then he said, Well, how many years you're facing anyone? I said, Well, it's unlimited. And he said, What do you mean? I said, it's unlimited. And he said, Well, what? 500 years? I said, yeah, maybe 800? I said you possibly if they just had a bad day? Who knows? And he was like, you're going to do all right. He said, they might give you a double sell. So that was one of theDan Ilic  45:24  opioids. When you went through the process of, you know, whistleblowing, did you ever think, oh, geez, I wish I hadn't had exposed the war criminals. Yeah,David McBride  45:37  I know, I never thought that I must have been, I never thought they were low. In the position I'm in now, where it looks like, you know, I could be going to jail for a long time for doing what I thought was the right thing. But I do sometimes think I've got to sue Hollywood, flick back, he gives me these ideas. Somehow that was the right thing to do. When actually, it was obviously a very dangerous, likeUnknown Speaker  45:58  a few good men that lets me maybeDavid McBride  46:01  get a big class, I could be the richest person to jail and never get to be able to spend that money.Dan Ilic  46:06  The sad thing is like, if you sell your story that goes really well, as a feature film, that would be terrible.It's quite remarkable what you've done. It's a it's a real act of service for democracy. And it's really astounding, that we all know what, you know, our defense force has done on our behalf. And I think we're all better off than knowing that Does your family know that your heroDavid McBride  46:35  could ever be a hero to your family. And I've tried to, I tried to try to pull the hero card a couple of times that they kids, when they're playing after they kind of want this, they want more money for the dress or something. And I'm like, Look, it's it's pretty hard for me and I am standing up for what is right and for your future and your children's future. And, and they go roll their eyes and they go dead. That's all very well when you get to get an actual job. So it doesn't cut my job. That's for sure ever with my ex wife. And I was like, telling her about try to break the news to her that the cops could be coming in numbers. I'd had secret documents that I was like, Look at Skinner, for taking on the Defence Force. And she was like, Oh, that's wonderful. Darlings was good. The falling and nails. And then I'm like I tried to make she didn't seem that impressed. I'm like, I'm really taking on the whole government that she's like, oh, yeah, that's good, darling. And I'm like, she wasn't very impressed. And I was trying to get a bit of hero. Record here. I create exactly what you think you get. And I'm like, an effectively because orchestrate everything I'm really taking on the American government and the CIA. You're upping the stakes. Yeah, I'mUnknown Speaker  47:56  trying to get a bit of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.David McBride  47:59  She's looking at a little bit of rough nails going on. It's nice, darling. She said, But I remember I've got Pilates tonight. So make sure you're home to pick up the kids job.Dan Ilic  48:10  Yeah. When you're going through the process of whistleblow. What's the most absurd thing that you kind of encountered in with the authorities? You know, what's, what's the craziest thing?David McBride  48:20  There's a lot that this is, you know, I went through all the secret files when I decided something was very wrong. And that offense was and I spent about six months working at night, looking for incriminating documents. And I got download them all and gave them to the ABC and said, Look, these ones, they're all selected. They're all I've highlighted the sections. Anyway, I knew these documents very well. And I'd selected them and that's why I'm facing trial. But when I was on trial, they used to take us into the Attorney General's office and especially as with all the documents were extensively to prepare our case. We're security guards and tourney generals, people watching us prepare our case in secret. And the documents were there and they were like to put it to me, he can't look at the documents because he doesn't have a security clearance at least classified and I'm like, I know what's in the fucking the documents I stole. They're like no, no exceptions. You can't look at them. And so then they these documents is precious documents. And as the time went on, I had to move them around in a safe the security guards would come around. And I think they got sick of it at one time. They had to call us up and said well, you can't have the documents today because the consignment order got mixed up and they've you know, gone to a double glazing office and we're trying to get them back as soon as we can.Kate McClymont  49:53  Do they arrested double glazedDan Ilic  49:58  the rest of the Korea they came back and now framed Well, David, thank you for joining us. I hope we can get you again soon before at least before or afterLewis Hobba  50:18  everyone understand that no, fuck yeah. That's right. We're about to get dangerous. This guy's standing up. Okay. Now secrets. We all have them. People on this panel they don't like a much zeal for disclosure is almost religious, but I'm an agnostic member in the church of full disclosure bit like the actual church. Boy, do they have some secrets? Of course some secrets deserve to be revealed. But be honest. Every now and then. A journalist uncovered something and you think to yourself, wish you hadn't told me that? Like why is it that we still don't know if the Queen killed Diana, but we do know that King Charles wants to be his wife's tampon didn't help me to know that hasn't stopped him being king. What's the point? You've just made me sad? I don't want to know these types of secrets. Oh, I haven't been out asleep for years because of this. But people like you had to go digging around. You know, when this whole thing broke the other nationals MP who thought that Barnaby should be sacked for cheating on his wife was this guy. And then you know what secrets the damn journalists found out about him. They found out that he'd been chatting to a woman who wasn't his wife using a sugar baby website. And that could have been enough. You could have stopped there. But no, you had to tell me the sex heroes. Do you remember this? When the woman said that she liked her Australian accent and he wrote I pull your clothes. Run my strong hands down your back. Softly kiss your neck and whisper get a mateI still shudder every time someone says g'day to me. I can't you journalist has put out an article every week that says old men still gross. This specifics are ruining me. And it's not just the gross secret. See, though, like this week, someone discovered that a glazier in Chile had collapsed. No, keep that to yourself. You know, I know climate change is happening but I can't stop the glaciers from falling in Chile. I'd love to but I can and it's stressing me out. Some things are need to know right? But some things I don't need to know some things. I just need to know that the people who need to know know you know. You can just leave me out of it. Like journalists need to remember that snitches get stitches. He is a dangerous idea for you, Zipit knowing everything that's your interest. It's a great hobby. Keep it to yourself. Oh, great. You found out that the Prime Minister had 10 Secret jobs and gave out hundreds of millions of dollars. So they were basically bribes. Oh, good. Good. Now I'm confused and angry. Oh, great. We found out that dead shit politicians getting paid millions to move overseas when they get chased out of their current jobs here for being shitted them. Oh, great. Well, now I have to think about that. Well, I have to go to my poorly paid work and be competent. It's killing me. I think every journalist should be restricted to one secret per annum. On your birthday, you can tell me one secret as a treat 364 days to plan your next one. Just give me a chance to recover. And you want to be a whistleblower? Great. You can only blow one whistle at a time. I don't want to be told any more about all people secretly fucking their staff or publicly fucking the planet. Like I want to know the secret to cooking a good pizza at home. One that tastes as good as a restaurant. How do they do it? I want to know the secret to ordering clothes online that fit me the first I just want to know the secret to not being anxious all the time. And I think that starts with not knowing This stuff. Thank you.Dan Ilic  55:02  Thank you Liz. That is it for rational Phoebe kinky for our guests. Dylan Lewis and Damien diamond MacDrive also big thanks to Robert mark our new patreon supporters Kelly Katherine Jenny the new work Daniel hobby Cecily Hardy Beck flight the official Avengers it has taken Brandon Aptech and our tech team here. Until next time, there's always something to be scared of Good night. Your fear is rational %MCEPASTEBIN%A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ SEE OUR NEXT LIVE SHOW AT THE FESTIVAL OF DANGEROUS IDEAS: https://festivalofdangerousideas.com/program/secretive-australia/Once in a while on the A Rational Fear podcast feed we do an interview with someone who is a leader on climate, and we've got a great get this week.Richard Duke represents the United States of America around the globe on climate, he is the Deputy Special Envoy for Climate — his boss is former Secretary of State John Kerry who leads the SPEC.On this episode of the Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation we chat through:The IRAAustralia's place in the pacificAussie Scope 3Global Supply ChainsThe Methane PledgeGuamSmall Island StatesPatreon QuestionsTRANSCRIPTION Dan Ilic  0:00  Good air Dan Ilic with you for the greatest moral podcast of our generation. This is a great episode. I have had the privilege of talking with America. Yes, the whole country actually, Rick Duke, who is the Deputy climate envoy for the US State Department. His job is essentially to travel around the world preaching from the Gospel of climate action, a job that considerably got a lot easier in August when the US passed the inflation Reduction Act. And then that hides exactly what it is, which is a mega climate spending spree Yeah, huge amounts of money tax credits and incentives for things like renewable energy, CCS, EVS community projects. And of course, it is not without controversy. It also opens up federal landfill fossil fuel exploration, it's a bit of a complicated story. But essentially, this whole thing, the IRA, the inflation Reduction Act, not Irish Republican Army, is essentially a huge deal for climate change, and could revolutionize America's approach for years to come when it comes to their emissions. The more I've learned about it, the more excited I am about it, and the more it will hopefully encourage other countries to do the same. Now, it is a far cry from the lip service that Australia's government has so far provided on climate action. But maybe, maybe with the US leading the way that could change a word about how we can make this podcast you know, this was kind of an expensive one, because I couldn't go to the consulate to record my podcast there. They don't actually allow people to take electronic equipment into the US Consulate. It's a whole deal. Let me tell you, and I couldn't exactly invite America into my house. It's very small country, a whole country in there. And let me tell you, the deputy climate envoy had a hell of an entourage, so I had to book professional studios, but it was well worth doing face to face. And I could only do this podcast and last week's podcast as well when we did a stupid old studios in Melbourne, because of your support on Patreon. Now, if you enjoy these conversations, you've enjoyed rational fear. If you enjoy our climate chats, please chip in as a Patreon supporter, it costs real money to make this show and I need your help. So you can chip in for as little as a cup of coffee of months. The benefit is you get unedited previews of stuff you get to see videos I'm working on. And you get a link to the discord so you can join in, in the conversations that people who make this show and also a rational few super fans are all on Discord. And we have great conversations about as Paul there. It's really, really, really good fun. And I look I know there are 7000 of you who listen to the show, which is huge, but only about 300 of you chip in so what we'd love to do this year is get that 300 to 600. And that way we could do more expensive podcasting. We recorded our conversation on Gadigal. land at the urination at a very expensive studio. Let's start the interview.Robbie McGreggor  2:53  Despite global warming, a rational fear who's adding a little more heart here with long form discussions with Climate Leaders. Good.Unknown Speaker  3:06  This is called Don't be great. Heat waves and drought greatest mass extinction moral we're facing a manmade disasterRobbie McGreggor  3:16  podcast, climate criminals, Jenner raishin. All of this with the global warming and a lot of it's a hoax book. Right. That's my role podcast about generation. For short,Dan Ilic  3:31  well, our next guest on The Greatest moral podcast of our generation is someone who's been at the forefront of culture, society, democracy, industry and corn syrup based foodstuffs since 1776. It's great privilege to have an irrational fear, one of the longest running superpowers ever. United States of America. Welcome America.Richard Duke  3:50  It's good to be here.Dan Ilic  3:52  Thank you. That is the voice of Rick Juke, who despite everything going on in the world, has spent 20 years trying to make the world a better place through global democracy and focusing on climate change. He was a special adviser on climate to President Barack Obama, a fellow at the Brookings Institute and like our many of our fellow guests, is deep in the one curry of climate policy, having cut his teeth at the Natural Resources Defense Council, but right now, he's the Deputy Special Envoy for Climate for the United States. Rick, it's really great to have you what a privilege.Richard Duke  4:24  It's great to be here. Thanks for making time to talk to me.Dan Ilic  4:28  No worries, foot like I just kind of gave a very cliff notes of your career based on your LinkedIn profile. But I don't know much about you. Can you tell me what you've done over the last 20 years? Like how did you find yourself deep in this in the climate fight?Richard Duke  4:44  When I was in college, I was in Environmental Studies and Economics and thinking about where I wanted to work and I kind of kept gravitating between economics and environment and the thing that is really at the Part of that nexus is climate change. And even then, with Al Gore telling the world about what to worry about, and my professors also helping me to orient on it all, it was clear that we needed to take this question more seriously than any of the others on environment. And so it was the biggest thorniest challenge and I just kept coming back to it over the course of my career,Dan Ilic  5:25  we ever distracted Did you say, you know, I might just try carpentry a little bit, lock up some shelves,Richard Duke  5:30  I was distracted by working on some of the economics only side for a while I worked for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York for a stint right out of college. I still worked in Mexico, right right out of college for a bit. But even there, I ended up coming back to related themes. I went to Mexico without a particular plan, but ended up working for the Mexican government for the summer on climate, believe it or not, so it just keeps being a theme for me. And even when I went into consulting, I found a way to focus on climate before it was really central to what management consultants were doing. And it's just been a passion kind of along the way.Dan Ilic  6:10  So what was there an aha moment? Was it like a catalyst moment for you? You went, Oh, fuck this, I gotta go. I gotta do climate stuff.Richard Duke  6:16  I don't know if it's a single thing is much is kind of the whole process of being a kid in college trying to decide what mattered and what really motivated me. And it was the sense that it was not really possible to do right by the environment unless we got the climate piece done right first. And then also, when we looked at the other environmental questions, a lot of those, at least in the US, were being managed. And so it seemed like the thing that was kind of work on doneDan Ilic  6:45  well, and that is that is extraordinary amount of time has passed since college. And over the last three weeks, you must be kind of doing somersaults. What an extraordinary moment to kind of have the IRA passed. Was that a big moment for you?Richard Duke  7:00  It was a huge moment for basically me, my family, my friends, everyone I know is pretty much over the moon,Dan Ilic  7:09  your family turned you and Dad, are you happy now Dad.Richard Duke  7:15  The two and the five year old I think are a little bit disconnected from this conversation even though they live in DC. But but it really it has been a huge deal for everyone that I work with all my friends in, in the business on climate change. And it is hard to overstate how important it is. I mean, we've all in the US been at it for 20 years really trying to get our Congress to coalesce despite all of our divisions, like since the 90s, like Bill Clinton era, kind of Exactly, exactly. Back to that date is I think, the right place to start. At that time. You know, President Clinton tried to do a energy tax as a way to get started on the problem and just got savaged for it. And then we tried to find a way forward in all kinds of different ways from cap and trade was a big one. Right? And then I was part of crafting some of the details of President Obama's efforts to do a clean electricity standard. Yeah, none of that got traction. And everything got close along the way are things got close along the way. And smaller things got done, we got versions of incentives for wind and solar done and so on. But this is the first time where we have a full package. It's comprehensive, it's durable, it's really going to make the difference. And so it's a bigDan Ilic  8:34  deal. Yeah, I left the name inflation Reduction Act is very climate, you know, when I think of climate, I think of reducing and inflammation. And all of those things. Yeah. Like, it's such a strange name, right? Because it feels like, oh, well, that's a clearly a name that is hiding the true benefits that this that this bill is going to bring, like, Why didn't you call it stop the heat death of the planet bill, or how it's bloody time act or something likeRichard Duke  9:00  that, I can tell you with confidence that my colleagues in the administration would have called it essentially anything that Senator Manchin wanted to call. And I think that it was, but But honestly, the inflation Reduction Act is a good name for it in the following substantive sense. This bill will demonstrably lower the cost of living for consumers, because it is going to make it possible to get that electric vehicle that is so much cheaper to operate over the life of the vehicle that insulates you from the ups and downs of gasoline prices is going to make it possible to get a heat pump that means you are also insulated from natural gas price volatility. And that is a very kind of consumer sense of reducing costs. In addition to that, it happens to be deficit reducing and that's the kind of macroeconomics of it, that it will actually reduce inflation because it's going to take some deficit out of the system right away because it's paid for and more by rolling back some of the tax cuts for the wealthy that the prior administration put in place. And by putting in place some quite rational approaches to really encouraging companies to invest by taxing what are called stock buybacks, which something companies do when they don't want to invest. They just buy back from in stock. And this is now going to be discouraged in a way that raises money. And all that together means it cuts the deficit, and it's going to cut consumer energy costs and make consumers more secure.Dan Ilic  10:29  You know, when we talk a lot about climate policy, we're always talking about carrots and sticks. It just feels like the US government's just dumped a truckload of carrots on the country, and will continue to for some time, and that will make lots of people happy with as opposed to something like a carbon tax, which is very unpopular. And we've tried to have carbon taxes here. I don't know if you're aware of that. But it didn't go down. So well.Richard Duke  10:50  So one thing that's interesting in this bill, is that it does include a fee on methane emissions in the oil and gas sector. Yeah, right. And so there's an element in there that is, I guess, old school, and that says, Let's go stay. Yes. And it includes a whole range of investments and incentives, the way you're describing. And that is the bulk of the bill is the carrot side. And so, but it's also worth noting that in the administration has been clear about this already, that with all this in place, then it helps to allow states and cities and our own federal government to then set standards that encourage companies to step up and do the right thing, investing in everything from electric vehicles, to heat pumps, to renewables, etc. And so it is a basis for doing much more than just the carrots.Dan Ilic  11:46  Yeah, there's some things that the climate community not so happy with the concessions for new oil and gas and the tying of leases for oil and gas to the kind of leases that are going up for renewable energy. Are those as bad as people are making them out to be? Do you thinkRichard Duke  12:03  so? There is nothing like the legislation to force compromise. In order to get anything big done in our Congress, and really any political system, there will be compromises required. And of course, the administration wanted to do much more with this bill than in the end, we were able to on much broader topics and climate. But the good news is that on climate, we got the essence done with this bill, we got all of most important things done. And there were some compromises on the level that you're describing now, how to think about this is that there's already been a lot of analysis done that shows that it is clearly decisively the case that the benefits here from transforming our giant American economy, to clean electricity and electrified everything vastly outweigh any potential climate costs that come from marginal output from additional oil and gas related to the leasing provisions is not even close. It's there's no contest and all the credible analyses that have already been done had been very clear about that.Dan Ilic  13:06  So do you think this is a real time to celebrate? Yeah,Richard Duke  13:09  absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, we're not done celebrating.Dan Ilic  13:14  Is this like a global lap of victory around the world, stopping at every country go, we did it, guys, we did it.Richard Duke  13:19  In all seriousness, having this in place means that we canDan Ilic  13:25  look at countries in the eye andRichard Duke  13:29  we can go into full diplomatic push to try to get everyone to join us in setting targets that are good enough to keep safe of climate within reach, and then delivering on those targets. And so we're busy doing that, in capitals everywhere, usually by zoom. Yeah.Dan Ilic  13:48  Well, it's so cool. It's a privilege to deal with face to face. Yeah, I think that's really remarkable, because it really would make your job extremely difficult to come to Australia and go, Hey, guys, so you need to do more and not being able to being able to say that America is now going to be doing something significant is is great. Can IRichard Duke  14:05  just know that this is something that is going to last? I think that sometimes people question our constancy as the United States. And I just want to jump in and talk about that, because the core of this inflation Reduction Act is a set of comprehensive 10 year tax credits for clean power for electric vehicles for clean industry, for clean buildings, and beyond. And all of those tools have strong bipartisan support. Because we have seen, let's say back in 2015, the Obama Biden administration negotiated a set of tax credits for wind and solar that were five years long and smaller, but those persisted straight through the Trump administration and delivered record years of wind and solar deployment straight through that era politically. And that, to me is proof concept that these are popular that they are bipartisan supported measures. And even though the whole bill was done on a partisan basis, ultimately, because that was the only option left the underlying elements, the substance of the bill. And climate is not something that's going to be rolled back by anyone at any time this is going to happen. And it's going to win friends over time as it happens, because it's going to create jobs, and it's going to create momentum. Right? IfDan Ilic  15:24  you're in a red state, and you get an electric car cheaper, or heat pump cheaper, you automatically, you know, benefiting from this bill, and your your prices of electricity go downRichard Duke  15:32  in picking up on that, yes, on the consumer side, but also, a lot of the development on renewables, and some of the other elements of the spill on manufacturing side and so on, are really going to benefit the whole country, and especially some of the parts of the country that are most skeptical right now. But I think once this really gets rolling, you're gonna see more and more supporters of this bill, it's already quite popular in the public.Dan Ilic  15:55  So for like, vulnerable communities whose water and air and it's clean now, these initiatives will clean up thoseRichard Duke  16:03  areas. Yes. And for economically vulnerable communities that need jobs, employment and better prospects, there's going to be wind farms and solar farms and all kinds of infrastructure that needs to get built.Dan Ilic  16:15  All right, I want to talk about Australia and our place in the Pacific. After years of being a bad actor, Australia is back kind of you know, you know, sort of, you know, sort of like, Hey, we're coming back kind of way. At least we have a 2030 target now, which we didn't have, you know, three weeks ago. What are the strengths that Australia can bring to the global conversation on climate action now, as opposed to six months ago? What do you think? What kind of pressure can we apply in our region to kind of seek more climate action.Richard Duke  16:44  So climate change will be determined by the major economies, the 20, major economies that make up about 80% of the world's emissions, and Australia is part of that club. And Australia is now in the game, helping to make the case to everyone, including China, which emits 30% of the world's greenhouse gases, and candidly needs to move faster if we're going to have a safe climate future, to join us in setting targets for 2030. That deliver the kind of reductions we need to hit Net Zero globally by 2050. And to solve this problem, or at least mitigate it sufficiently. And so now Australia is there because Australia has a target that I believe that it will deliver against that is straight on the line to net zero by 2050, for Australia, and so the key thing is not is it 43% or 44%, or whatever. The key thing is that it is a pace of emission reductions from today's levels, that's right on track to get to net zero by 2050. And that's what we need all major economies to join together and do. And by the way, as, as we do that, as the United States as Australia, working together, in many cases on things like electric vehicle supply chains, and so on. As we do that costs come down. And that's part of why this is happening now in the United States. And why it's happening now in Australia is that renewables are cheaper to get electricity than any other source, electric vehicles are cheaper for consumers than any other way to drive. And so that's because countries have momentum now, or more and more countries have momentum on this issue. And it's great to have Australia fully in the fold on that now.Dan Ilic  18:22  And one of the things we don't talk a lot about in Australia, and climate is our scope, three emissions, you know, we are a carbon intensive economy. We are we are well, one of the top three or four, depending on the globe, global conflicts of the day fossil fuel exporters, but we don't ever have a conversation about our contribution to the molecules in the atmosphere that leave our shores. How do we have that conversation with our own government? How do we convince our own government that we need to stop the export at our own economic detriment for a little bit of these fossil fuels?Richard Duke  18:55  If we think about how we're going to get at this problem globally, the bottom line is that it's on the demand side where the real action is what is going to cut into global oil consumption. It's electric vehicles and electrification of all transportation, in some cases, hydrogen perhaps. And as we do that, globally, including hopefully at pace and Australia now, on the demand side, then that means that there'll be less and less need to invest in and develop oil for for the world to use. And that's the way that we'll we'll see that oil will peak and decline, and we'll be able to get this done. Same thing applies for coal as we move to substitute renewables for coal fired electricity on a global basis, then global demand for coal goes down and that's how you get at this problem. SoDan Ilic  19:48  this is about getting doesn't get back at our customers to change as they're getting our current customers to, to change the way they are making energy,Richard Duke  19:54  including here in Australia where you got to see the progress pickup in order to deliver Over on Australia's new 43%, target on decarbonizing electricity, and electrifying everything. And then Australia is kind of fully part of that effort on the demand side. And then the rest follows on the supply side. And let me just say one more thing, though, which is it's going to take some time for this to play out. It's not something that happens overnight, as much as we want it to. It is going to be well over a decade of energy transition globally and more like two to three decades, if we're honest about it. And during that time, it's important that all suppliers of fossil fuels during that transition period, you know, as they taper down, we also need to make sure those fossil fuel supplies are as clean as possible. So we've got to get out the methane emissions that come from coal, oil and gas along the way.Dan Ilic  20:45  I'm glad you brought up methane because we do have a question without notice from greens leader Adam Bandt.Adam Bandt  20:50  The Pacific leaders see it when we say we're committed to climate action, and then go home and announced 10 new oil and gas fields like the Australian Labour government did this week. Will you push Australia to commit to no new coal and gas as part of us reengagement in the Pacific and for our government to adopt the global methane pledge that President Biden was championing what say youDan Ilic  21:13  America, we absolutely areRichard Duke  21:16  encouraging all countries in the world, including Australia to join the now more than 120 countries that have committed to work together on cutting methane pollution at least 30% by 2030, and the global methane pledge. So yes, on that second part, on the first part, we are back to what I was just describing the answer to how to achieve energy transition globally, is above all else that we need to complete that journey of clean power and electric electrification of transportation buildings and industry as the core of the climate solution globally. And when we do that we address what's needed globally on on the energy sector,Dan Ilic  21:57  we have this crazy thing in Australia with LNG exports. I don't know if you know about a local market here. It's absolutely bonkers, right? 80% of LNG gets exported out. And we were short of LNG for our domestic supply because of a deal that in 2002, with 2002, prices locked in for 30 years, we're getting to the point now we're actually building LNG import terminals for the potentially process of getting LNG re imported from Asia back into Australia, because it'll be cheaper than supplier.Richard Duke  22:27  We've seen these kinds of we got plenty of gas. We've seen these kinds of shocks all over the world in this market, including in the United States, where we had back and forth on LNG that was at a similar scale, where for while we were building LNG, import terminals, and then now we're big LNG exporters now that we're doing so much natural gas production, but I think the core answer to that question around energy insecurity is the same answer to the question around climate insecurity, which is that we got to double triple down on the transition, right, because once we get to this green power, electrified and use future then we've got both we've got climate security and energy security and one goDan Ilic  23:12  on the Maytime thing. I think it's so interesting looking at the 120 countries, Bahrain is on that list. Canada, Kuwait, Nigeria, Tunisia, Qatar has signed it these are carbon economies. What is what is like what is like taking Australia's time to sign this we also know you have you gone have you gotten knocking on on Chris Bowens door and today for is popping in? Can you just sign this for me?Richard Duke  23:35  Let me also note that we have over three quarters of the world's top livestock and dairy producers have joined as well, which is one of the more challenging What'sDan Ilic  23:42  your message to Australia come on our deal with enthusiasm, message, diplomacy away, Rick, come and say something that will get me a headlineRichard Duke  23:53  the waters warm come in? No, I look it's it's it's a it's a crucial conversation for us to all join in. Because you got to take seriously that half a degree centigrade of today's climate change is caused by methane. And there's just no faster way to manage our near term climate future than to cut methane pollution. And we're not on track globally to be clear, methane emissions are increasing 10% Over the next decade on the current trajectory. So we don't just need people to join global methane pledge what we need, above all, and I believe Australia is headed in this direction is to join us in the pledge but do the work. And and that's, I think, really where we are focused and we're making headway on that. I want to just note, President Lopez Obrador of Mexico joined President Biden recently, and committed to move on addressing oil and gas, methane in Pemex, the national oil company of Mexico's operations in a major way for the first time, and we're going to do that work together there. And we're working in Nigeria working in many geographies all at once and not just in the boss. All sector, but that's the hard work we need to do. And we want Australia to step up and be a full partner in that. Come on,Dan Ilic  25:05  come on. Spoken like a diplomat. Well, that's why you're the deputy climate envoy. And I'm not there was a lovely way to word that Hurry up Australia. That's how I would have said it. Let's talk about some threats quickly, when you see these global agreements of last decade, not just in climate, but Brexit falling apart, the war in Eastern Europe, what kind of threats Do you see on the horizon for a global climate, like what's kind of an unforeseen threat that we're not really thinking about for these global agreements that could, could destabilize them?Richard Duke  25:36  What we can say is that it's instructive to look at what happened when Russia illegally invaded Ukraine. And I think that the reverberations that are still happening, there's obviously the humanitarian crisis that it has caused in Ukraine above all else, but then there's reverberations globally that include all these shocks to energy prices, but also shocks to fertilizer, and therefore food prices. And what we are seeing on I guess, a silver lining side from that, is that the response in Europe, the response globally, is that governments see that they need to just move faster to get to the clean energy future, and they need to move faster to get to cleaner fertilizers that are things like, you know, green, green hydrogen to green ammonia, as a way to cut loose from all that volatility and from Petro state control of their economies. And so I guess that is a recent or even current example of how geopolitical shocks can intersect with climate change. But in this case, it's really causing everyone to double down on on the transition to clean energy. Now, going forward, I think the biggest threat to climate action is probably some of the global trends around what's happening in media environments and what's causing it and what what's happening to democracies. And if we're, if we're candid about it, and I probably won't be very specific in naming names. That is where we get to, yes, youDan Ilic  27:14  definitely don't want to say Rupert Murdoch, is a problem for democracy. While you're in Australia, Rick, you can say that in America, but don't say it at the ABC Studios. I can say that, because I don't have any money for Rupert Murdoch. to defame. Don't you dare say Lachlan Murdoch has anything to do with dismantling democracy. Ricky's nervously drinking.Richard Duke  27:40  But that is what worries me is the is the whole question of kind of the undercurrent of autocracy. I think that is the toughest part.Dan Ilic  27:49  What are kind of the exciting areas you see for Australia in the region? Like what are the opportunities you see for you know, us as citizens of Australia, but also Australia as an actor on the on the Pacific stage?Richard Duke  28:01  I think there are a couple that I want to highlight one is precisely in the region, Australia is a crucial partner for us in working with countries like Indonesia and India, on accelerating their energy transition. And we're already doing that work ourselves and with other allies. And we are eager to work with Australia on making that happen at pace in those countries. And we think that's a huge shared opportunity. More on the commercial side, we are moving now to scale up a kind of North American Electric Vehicle manufacturing powerhouse. And we've been very clear, Congress has been very clear, we're gonna need a secure supply chain in that. And so we think that Australia is one of my, you know, many natural partners in making sure we've got the right kind of critical minerals supply in order to make all that happen. So that's another example. There are many others. I mean,Dan Ilic  29:05  that's so interesting, because Australia is rich in minerals, we do have a lot of particularly rare earth minerals that are part of the new economy. But we don't do any processing here. You know, there's, there's none of that there's there's all that happens in Asia, is that an opportunity for Australians to kind of take that part of the supply chain and, you know, be a kind of a powerhouse in processing those kinds of minerals here.Richard Duke  29:30  It is an opportunity because the scale of the prize is immense. I mean, it's not just batteries, not just electric vehicles. It's also renewables components, all these things need critical minerals, and then you've processed critical minerals. And then obviously, there's opportunities downstream and manufacturing things as well. And of course, deploying all those solutions in the Australian economy. So there's lots of work to do. And Australia has a set of key roles that it can play in At work,Dan Ilic  30:01  okay, I've got a question without notice from Maria Hernandez. She's a friend of mine that is from Guam.Maria Hernandez  30:06  Well, less than half a day, I will see Maria Hernandez me. My name is Maria Hernandez name. I'm an indigenous tomorrow mother. I'm also an environmental and cultural rights activist based in Guam, as well as its 2022 Bertha foundation fellow. My questions the US climate envoy. I'll start off by saying that one is positioning itself as a leader really in the worldwide sustainability movement. As you're aware of we're considered a highly strategic location in the Asia Pacific region. Our local government has been working toward fostering sustainable economic growth and really paying attention to climate change. Because so many islands are being impacted by climate change in the Pacific. We're trying so hard to make our island more self sustaining. But the reality is that we're in an unincorporated territory of the US. We don't have a seat at the table when it comes to US military projects that are changing the entire landscape of the Pacific. And right now 1/3 of our island is occupied by the US military, there is a massive firing range complex being built above are northern lands aquifer that provides 90% of the community with water. And access to clean drinking water is a human right. We don't want our aquifer, and our land and our and our coastal waters to be contaminated. Like we're seeing across so many communities where there's a large military presence. The example that I can think of right away is the crisis at Red Hill, in Hawaii, what they're experiencing out there, it's really a nightmare. So I asked, what steps can be taken to further reduce the military's footprint here, protect our aquifer, protect our people, ultimately, and to promote sustainability that better position our island and our region to fight climate change. CSIS. Mossy thank you,Dan Ilic  31:59  for Maria,Richard Duke  32:00  thank you for the question. You're asking questions that I don't frankly have great answers to I am outside of my domain of expertise on a lot of this. Clearly, there's work to be done in trying to answer what you posed better than I can. Look, one thing I can say is that when it comes to the Pacific more broadly, because I really can't speak to the specifics that you've raised with any with any details, it's too far beyond my expertise and mandate. What I can tell you is that we are acutely aware of the impact of climate change itself in the Pacific, and specifically for vulnerable states, like small island states, including because of sea level rise itself. And that is why we are so committed to doing this work to keep 1.5 degrees centigrade within reach. And that is why we think about it not just in terms of this whole energy transition that we've been talking about already, but also the fast mitigation complement to the energy transition, which starts with this methane work to make sure that we're cutting pollution that will control the climate in the next 30 years, and other short lived climate pollutants like HFCs. And we've got to then also invest in adaptation. So we're gearing up our prepare Initiative, which aims to get things like early warning systems around to the world so that farmers know if they're gonna get hit by a year of drought they know in advance and can at least try to do their best to manage through that. So we're doing what we can on on that front. And your excellent questions about Guam specifically, I'm just not in a good position to answer specifically.Dan Ilic  33:49  They are a, an island that is a colony of America. mass migration is something that is kind of at the top of my mind when I think about our islands in Australia, like Torres Strait Islanders who are losing their culture and homes, and probably will disappear in the next 15 years. Is there something in place in terms of US policy to look after folks who are from islands that are colonies of America, like Puerto Rico or Guam or other island areas to bring them to a different landmass?Richard Duke  34:20  Well, it is a case by case question, I will say at the highest level that I think both the United States and Australia benefit from a relatively open posture on immigration in half. So over decades, and in my strong view, both countries should double down on that going forward, because because it's in their interest to do so. In the case of Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico is part of the United States and citizens can travel back and forth at will. There's a opportunity for Puerto Rico to potentially become a state and that's a complicated question in its own right I, but I think that the, you know, the answer depends on which exact place we're talking about.Dan Ilic  35:05  Sure. Okay, here are some quick questions from Patreon. Many of you have already answered. So feel free to give, you know, three second answers here. First one from comedian Ben pubg. Who does your hair?Richard Duke  35:16  I think no one no one does your hair, including not me very good.Dan Ilic  35:20  This is from Sasha, we're the polarization of politics. How can a genuine bipartisan approach to positive change occur? I think this is it goes back to when we're talking about a little bit before.Richard Duke  35:31  What we've seen in the US is that as technology costs have come down to the point that the clean stuff is cheaper and better for consumers and everyone. And as our younger citizens have stepped up and demanded that we do more on all this, that is basically shifting the politics tectonically. So that now sure there's a there's a hardcore of kind of climate skeptics climate denial denialists. But mainly what you have is that's fading. And with this set of investment that's coming, it's going to be bipartisan, increasingly going forward.Dan Ilic  36:06  Spirit asks, Do America's targets include land use? Yes. LWCF?Richard Duke  36:12  Absolutely. We have a considerable land use sink that helps us with our climate math. And we need to and are investing in making sure we maintain the health of that. And by the way, that's going to get harder as we deal with climate impacts and wildfire. And that's a shared challenge. Obviously, in both countries,Dan Ilic  36:29  I read that the trees are growing in the tundra now. So you know, just keep growing that forest out there.Richard Duke  36:34  I guess, silver linings.Dan Ilic  36:36  Matthew asks how to radically reduce America's carbon footprint without sanctioning the politics of austerity. I think the IRA goes some way to answering Matthew's question there.Richard Duke  36:47  Definitely. I think we are on safe ground on that question right now. And it's not just the IRA. We also have a couple 100 billion dollars in investment from our infrastructure investment and jobs act that's in place and starting to flow into the economy for innovation on clean energy and climate solutions. And then there's even in our semiconductor bill called the chips act. There's opportunities on climate there. So we are investing. We are not practicing austerity on climate right now.Dan Ilic  37:14  And this is a fun question for me. There are rumors that your boss might be retiring. Can we have the exclusive to announce that you'll be taking over from John Kerry? No comment. Well, Richard, it's absolute privilege to sit face to face with you and talk through these issues. I've never met a super bow before, but it was really fun. And I hope I hope I get to see you again in the future and pose more questions to you.Richard Duke  37:38  Thanks for hosting me and please come to Washington. We can have a pint. That'd be great.Robbie McGreggor  37:44  GM Pooh Bear greatest moral podcast of our generation.Dan Ilic  37:48  Well, they haven't. We had 30 minutes with America. And we covered a lot of territory in that 30 minutes. And it was really good fun. I hope to do it again sometime soon. Big thank you to the US State Department for hooking that up. Also, big thanks to Maria Hernandez from Guam. And our friend Adam band over at the greens for their questions are really curly questions there for America. Also, big thank you to Jacob brown on the Tepanyaki timeline for jamming this podcast together. If you love what we do at irrational fear, please head on over to patreon.com forward slash a rational fear and shipping. It's three bucks a month, five bucks a month. Keep the show on the road. Right now. It is extremely helpful to pay the bills to put this show together. Also, if you love us on stage, please head on over to the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. We're back on stage September 17 talking all things secrecy in Australia. And that's a huge lineup, David McBride, Amber Schultz, Kate McLemore Damien cave from the New York Times as well as Louis Hobart and myself, unless September 17, at the festival dangerous ideas, it's gonna be really funny show just started putting it together this weekend is going to be stupid and good. And also you'll learn a lot and I've also laugh a lot and also be so shocked as to how fucked up Australia is. That's the remit of this show, isn't it? It's amazing, irrational fear. We that's what we do here. Anyway, thanks for listening. We'll see you speak to you next week. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ SEE OUR NEXT LIVE SHOW AT THE FESTIVAL OF DANGEROUS IDEAS: https://festivalofdangerousideas.com/program/secretive-australia/Dan is eating his way through Melbourne's cafes — so this ARF is recorded face to face from Stupid Old Studios.Is a cracker covering Labor Climate Catastrophe, the dance moves of the Finish Prime Minister, the Murdoch's suing Crikey, Russia's new ad campaign and #DadVsAdaniFearmongers include:Kirsty WebeckSam PetersenAlice ToveyHost Dan IlicInterview Guest: Ben Pennings See more about Ben's campaign against Adani below.  SUPPORT BEN PENNINGS CAMPAIGN:#DadvsAdaniAdani is after the suburban family home of Brisbane dad Ben Pennings, suing him for $17m in the Supreme Court for peaceful protest action. They even followed his wife and kids around. Support #DadvsAdani to protect the freedom of all Australians.Donate to the legal fund - https://tinyurl.com/yc5zwxknPost your own photo - https://tinyurl.com/mr2dar5p 🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ SEE OUR NEXT LIVE SHOW AT THE FESTIVAL OF DANGEROUS IDEAS: https://festivalofdangerousideas.com/program/secretive-australia/Dan Ilic  0:00  G'day, Dan Ilic here. Guess what? We're in Melbourne. Yes, it's very exciting. Just letting you know before we start the podcast we've got a big live show coming up at the festival dangerous ideas at carriage works. It's a huge show all about how Australia is the most secretive liberal democracy in the world so we could potentially go to jail. It's very exciting. On the panel, Damian Kay from the New York Times Emma shorts from crikey Kate McCann from the Sydney Morning Herald, David McBride, former Australian defense lawyer and turned whistleblower he is joining us and of course, Lewis harbor, and myself who are renowned, secretive people we don't know anything about us. So that's what's so exciting about the show seven senses of timber in Sydney. I'm recording my irrational fear on the land of the orangery in the cooler nation's sovereignty was never seen it we need a treaty. Let's start the show.Simon Chilvers  0:46  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of a rational view recommended listening by immature audiences.Dan Ilic  0:59  Tonight after months of turmoil Qantas is apologizing to his customers by offering a $50 gift voucher The only catch is it's only redeemable on Qantas and it will be delivered to you by Qantas baggage handlers and Lachlan Murdoch is suing crikey for defamation after they allege that Fox News was somehow responsible for the capital rights. Meanwhile, anyone who reads the Murdoch press is asking what's a Crikey. And after a disastrous interview on insiders that crudely sold out his colleagues for a few extra staff Barnaby Joyce is declared patient zero for Foot and Mouth Disease. It's the 26th of August and we refuse to quiet quit this is a rational fear.Welcome to rational fear. I'm your host disgraced celebrity chef Dan Ilic. And this is the podcast that takes the worst news of the weekend. It just sucks it down like a word is original. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight that their cabaret queen with a sharp tongue and adult implement. Please give it up for Alice Toby Hello as well. Why do you carry that doll implement around with you everywhere you go.Alice Tovey  2:09  Oh, you know what they say carry a doll implement. I think that was Tim Ferguson's comedy. That's good to be here on pocket size Louis this week.Dan Ilic  2:17  Yeah, that's it. Yeah. CO hosting the show. How do you feel?Alice Tovey  2:19  I feel good. It feels right. I'm coming for triple date. But J next, Louis, if you're listening or someoneDan Ilic  2:24  has to be in the demographic, a Triple J they're a producer podcaster and purveyor of the souls of the guiltiest idiots around from the confessions of the idiot. Sam Peterson,Sam Petersen  2:36  thank you so much for having me on clip myself.Alex Dyson  2:41  Why are you down carrying around these confession? EverythingSam Petersen  2:43  goes all the way down by the instrument that we spoke about before? Yeah, no, it does it. I have to now go on Reddit once a week and look up for online confession. But I have to go through about 100 to get to those four. So a lot of stuff that I don't bring to the podcast is the worst sort of stuff that could possibly have a domain today. And I'm reading through a lot of that. SoDan Ilic  3:03  can I propose the confessions of the idiots up late?Sam Petersen  3:07  I don't think anyone could handle it. And they're a businessAlex Dyson  3:08  genius with a master's degree in fine laughs It's Kirsty Wait.Sam Petersen  3:15  Did you get stressed?Dan Ilic  3:18  me because I went through a couple of your old tweets this afternoon. I thought this was a genius idea for a TV show. Tell us a little bit about help. I'm a celebrity. Get me in there.Kirsty Webeck  3:31  Oh my gosh, it's such a bad idea. But the pitch is that you get a bunch of celebrities and that's in inverted commas, like Australian style celebrities. And they're in a really long queue. Places that are famous for long queues, or songs or Mama's seenSam Petersen  3:51  before and after the show.Kirsty Webeck  3:53  Especially after and they've just got to find their way to the top of the queue basically. It's a dreadful idea but I'd also absolutely watch itSam Petersen  4:01  I love it. I love the comments when any of those shows where anything like that goes on all the comments are who and you'd like to get your following like Carrie big morning going who every time she postsDan Ilic  4:12  what I resent is someone who's had profile for some time anytime a news article comes up about me on the Daily Mail was like this guy did this. This guy was on TV once. There's like a new a new TV celebrity. They're like Derek fuckface. Coming up later, we talked with Ben Pennings, a climate activist who was trying to save the world was sued by Danny for $17 million. We'll ask him does he think it's worth saving the world? But first, here's a message from this week's sponsor. The Australian Labour Party is finally in charge. But don't worry conservatives. We're not here to shake things up. Good governance means more of the same but different, more of the same petroleum exploration but not on Sydney. It's North Shore in the southern Ocean, more of the same destruction of sacred sites and song lines, but not for iron ore, for gas.Anthony Albanese  5:07  whatever our differences in political parties we share a love for coal seam gas drilling.Dan Ilic  5:13  And yes, we know it looks like we've rushed into passing a bill on climate action. But don't worry, it's weeks Pearson won't change a thing. The AustralianAnthony Albanese  5:22  people voted for change, and we intend to give them nothingDan Ilic  5:27  Australian Labor, same suits, different types. This week's first fit is brought to you by our sponsor, the Labour Party more of the same. Now despite the end of the world being linked to fossil fuels, Australian Labour Government has just opened up a new petroleum exploration of the waters of Victoria, Tasmania. And energy companies are already saying, Hey, we should relax and the best straight operation is just going to be more of an artisanal approach and that they're just going to be drilling enough oil to ensure local apothecaries have enough scented candles. So I think that's a good a good thing. Yeah, fear mongers. This is a decision that is clearly at odds with our own climate targets of fuck all, which is at least better than what we've had, which was no fucking targets. I was Toby, how do you reconcile this decision to go drilling in the Southern Ocean?Alice Tovey  6:16  I think it's fantastic. I love the government's approaching the 2030 climate target the way that a teenager kind of approaches housework when their mom's busy and out of the house. They're like, Oh, darling, take the chicken out of the freezer. And then you realize it suddenly, seven years later, you've been playing Mario Kart named just microwaving the shit out of thisDan Ilic  6:33  cheat? Yeah, delete those paddles that you can put the pedals for a cardiac arrest. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's just it's quite, you know, disconcerting. Like I think I tweeted something like, let the disappointments begin. We've had four good weeks of hope. And now Everything's fucked again.Alice Tovey  6:55  Surely, and it's just adding to all the carbon capture and storage stuff that they've announced as well. So basically, they're kind of like big tubs. They're meant to like take the carbon and fuck it off elsewhere, which is great, but it's kind of just climate Reiki at this pointSam Petersen  7:12  could they be born with billboards? Or I'm thinking you're the billboardDan Ilic  7:16  look let's just say billboards fix cars climate change last time probably will fix climate change carbon I just whenever that's when that stuff did have it. I think like that. That was my attitude was just Yeah, it's like, Guys, I fix climate change. I've doneKirsty Webeck  7:37  it. It's beautiful to watch. It really was a skeptic. I didn't think that you do it with the billboards. And then you did What do you mean like in New York? Or yeah, I didn't I didn't think you'd solve climate change withSam Petersen  7:48  I don't think it was like we didn't actually go through with the bill. We thought we'd take the money andKirsty Webeck  7:54  go through with it. I just I was like, surely that won't solve the problem. And then it did.Dan Ilic  7:58  Corrected fix the problem and that's why we can now explore for patrolling.Alice Tovey  8:03  And her pamphlet she's just seen.Alex Dyson  8:08  The Guardian reporter Peter Hanim tweeted this incredible graph from the RBA today, saying that to meet our net zero targets our colleague exports have to drop before below 100 megatons a year before 2050. But the RBA has done the projections on the current policies. And that line is just kind of soaring up into the sky. The RBA is like hey, you think interest rates is bad? Where do you see these megatrends? Go?Sam Petersen  8:36  Anytime I see any sort of graph now all I'm thinking about it's flattened back. It's all I've known for a very long time.Dan Ilic  8:43  That's it that's that would actually work. Yeah, climate action asSam Petersen  8:47  well. The Financial Times.Alice Tovey  8:50  I love the idea of you looking at a pie chart being like two rounds.Sam Petersen  8:55  will never work.Alex Dyson  8:56  This week. Second fear putting the prime in Prime Minister news now footage of Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin dancing in her own home was late and criticized by many sectors of the world's media including Nigel Lythgoe saying it was a brave performance but she won't be coming back next week. Santa was sober everything I'm sure a lot of people don't know who that guy is. You know he's just a British judge. Look, I tried I tried my career would have testament that is actually true. Even held a press conference to say hey, what's what's the big deal? Get over your big babies. Meanwhile, footage of elbows scowling a beer at a gang of youths gig was praised in large sections of Australian media except of course, Sky News. Now firstly, we back you're a renowned, joyful person. Does this kind of behavior mean our leaders are now going to have to dance like everyone's watching.Kirsty Webeck  9:52  It would seem that way. I mean, Sanna Marin is like a young person having a nice time and having a life and she's got Got a job? Like sorry for having a job.Sam Petersen  10:05  Thank you for finally apologizingKirsty Webeck  10:08  on her behalf. But then, you know, like just isn't Jacinda are doing like a DJ as well like, Well, I'm not going to tolerate that no music in New Zealand please. And then also the thing with elbow like he says Australia's Got no culture, we've got a culture do a show we make. SoDan Ilic  10:26  to be honest, isn't that the one thing that prevents me from running for Prime Minister's like I cannot handle the pressure of sculling appear at every fucking event, I just won't be able to doSam Petersen  10:35  it. Why did it tradition, I don't even understand why people think that's so cool to be able to drink fast as a prime minister or sports as well. And all goesAlex Dyson  10:43  back to Bob Hawke when he was at Oxford, right? And he scoured the Jaguars. If you go to Oxford pub, in Oxford, there's this mural of Bob Hawke and his yard glass and it's less plaque that says Bob hawks set the record for scaling theAlice Tovey  10:57  must be some kind of prime ministerial training program to Skull beer, you think so?Kirsty Webeck  11:04  They receive a manuscript that says in this role now you'll be required to scope beers in public and kill the environment.Sam Petersen  11:15  I was just so perplexed by the whole thing, and like people tweeting the elbow thing, I was like, Oh, I don't I didn't really see why it was so impressive or something to celebrate the drinking really quickly and everything. I was like, are we still here?Kirsty Webeck  11:27  Yeah. It's sort of depressing. Just in the, in the whole context of like, Australia's drinking cult. Yeah. And that's been under the microscope a little bit lately as well. Yeah. And it's just it's such a weird badge of honor. And then I think the contrast between how that was dealt with as well. And then everything that's going on with the Finnish Prime Minister, too, is it's just really interesting. Yeah. I mean, there's obviously some gender stuff at play, but also just our drinking culture and the way that we salute that kind of behavior. Like, he tried to beer and it's like, yeah, great. I'd like to see effect some social and political change.Sam Petersen  12:03  A few hours later elbow, or go to the gang have advice for everybody.Kirsty Webeck  12:09  He's like, Well, I'm too hung over now.Sam Petersen  12:13  He's doing it himself. Although that that whole thing, but also like that she had well, she I don't know if she volunteered to get a drug test or something as well. I think it was becauseDan Ilic  12:25  she didn't do it. She said, she said, I've never done drugs. I haven't done drugs in my childhood. Y'all get over it. Yeah. And I think that's soKirsty Webeck  12:31  crazy. I think she ended up doing it. The media reported that she tested negative, right, she ended up having to bow down to the pressure, like whether or not that's true, but that's what the media was reporting yesterday.Sam Petersen  12:40  So we can say allegedly after.Kirsty Webeck  12:45  And then when the dust settled on that, then there was suddenly this photo of the two women kissing at another party. Yeah. And the finished flag and yeah, and I mean, I might be the wrong person to comment on this. But that looked like a bit of wholesome fun.Sam Petersen  13:03  We love getting talking about that on twitter.com.Alice Tovey  13:06  You and I cursed you can't run for politics. There's too many photos of us kissing hot chicks.Dan Ilic  13:13  In 2025, you know, society will change that will become acceptable. And we know that will be your poster. That will be let's be running. All out on the open. You can say that now you can say yeah, we've done all that. All of those pictures are on Facebook. Go get them from 2003 They're right there ready for you? Yeah, yeah,Kirsty Webeck  13:36  we don't really have the skeletons in the closet anymore. Do we? We've just got the skeletons on google.com readily available. You can find every bad thing I've done in my life right there. Yeah,Sam Petersen  13:46  I love I love mates at Ruby each other on Facebook when there's like an old post and then one of them bumps it up to the top. I'm so sorry.Dan Ilic  13:55  I already do counts like me and Run Twitter Delete on your Twitter. Oh,Kirsty Webeck  14:01  I haven't I absolutely need to. Now that I've admitted that I haven't on this podcast, like I definitely have a busy night ahead. Scrubbing and cry.Dan Ilic  14:14  You know when Facebook says Do you remember this memory and so often will come up now I'm like, I don't remember saying that at all. Yeah, I don't necessarily think about that about sandpaper.Sam Petersen  14:24  You said some horrific.Kirsty Webeck  14:26  Most of them were true.Dan Ilic  14:31  Most of us here, big Twitter heads. I don't know if you caught the vibe on Twitter on Tuesday when the Solicitor General was about to release their report about the Scott monastery that Scott was monitoring. Scott Morrison ministry stuffed and did you did you see? The blue drips like baying for blood? And then the legal drips are like hey, just relax. It was I actually I actually caught a promo from Channel Nine for it.Unknown Speaker  14:58  But most anticipated There's a document drop in Australia political history. Actually it's more like a PDF from the most senior more official in the land. I'm actually more of a public servant who knows a lot about the law Solicitor General will release the Morison ministry manifesto. It's actually analysis as Scott Morrison broken the law. Not really has he ruined democracy as we know it. It's certainly unconventional Catster juicy gossip midday on Tuesday, she posted a top 10 the Solicitor General's Morrison ministry manifestor analysis could check a strap threat maybe but ticket will buy you a whole seat but you'll only need theDan Ilic  15:49  Well that sounds very unsafe I recommend against it. Very good. All right. This week's third day the billionaire versus the blog Lachlan Murdoch is suing crikey for defamation. This is just exactly the kind of behavior you'd expect from a dog Kim came from Frankie covered the January 6 insurrection on Capitol Hill in DC he'd alluded not my name mind you that the Murdoch family might have something to do with allegedly claiming they have some undue influence on certain section of the conservative media. And then Murdoch you know, sent crikey, some legal letters, crikey, then publish them and put out an ad in the New York Times saying that, hey, come and get us You dog. Lachlan Murdoch seen the opportunity to shut down a subscription news website? That wasn't his own set? All right, I will. So now where does this leave? Crikey, surely everyone that was already going to subscribe to them has subscribed, and they've got enough money. Well, they're gonna burn a bunch of money to kind of fight Lachlan Murdoch, Sam Peterson you run a subscription media business. Do you have any tips for cracking?Sam Petersen  16:53  Absolutely. Always take on the Murdoch. idea. I take them on a monthly I love I like to say bad word about the Murdochs I think they're wonderful. I think we can all agree with that. I would never say anything bad about them. They couldDan Ilic  17:06  they could potentially invest in podcasting.Kirsty Webeck  17:11  And what about those salacious rumors that you were spreading about Lachlan before we startedSam Petersen  17:15  recording? Allegedly. I know that you've recorded them on your phone you're always recording, always recording. But it is i i find it so sad that they've taken on crikey because a lot of other publications at the time in America were publicizing a lot of things as well. And it was just crikey that they took on for defamation because it's different in Australia with defamation law. So they're taking on crack. And I think it's so sad for independent journalists who are trying a subscription based site because you know, podcasts obviously, for me, they make a lot of money. Absolutely wrong.Kirsty Webeck  17:48  That's why That's why I keep blackmailing.Sam Petersen  17:52  But it is it is so sad with subscription services, because you're obviously not making a lot of money out of it. And they're going after kind of a small fish that they could go after so many other people, but they're for some reason going after the most Ozzie subscription service ever. Crikey.Dan Ilic  18:06  Yeah. And I mean, I would love to be sued and then have to declare bankruptcy because it's just so much pressure to keep continuingSam Petersen  18:14  to get that content out.Dan Ilic  18:17  So Daniel, is actually going to instigate a motion for a judicial inquiry for greater media diversity and make media organizations responsible for the truth and material that they purvey including penalties to match. This is the next movement in this whole campaign. And this scares me all of a sudden having to justify everything in this podcast. Yeah, but it's truthiness. Oh my god I'mSam Petersen  18:38  Richard you'll find just say a legend heaps I'll do anything about content is I'm so happy that Kirsty actually records everything but it is it is so sad though that you have to be so careful now about about everything I mean, you know it's not it's not political correctness gone evidence. It's that awful thing of just going are like friends of mine who are comedians that worry about things that said three years ago or something or you know everything there is this fear now I think with everybody posting things, making sure it's right and there is a bit of like that could be a really good thing with a lot of outlets like when Daily Mail and stuff, but there is I think there has to be accountability but going after crikey.com Seems like a bit of a stretch.Dan Ilic  19:20  Yeah, you have to prove that he was defined by crikey well you gotta prove that crikey had any influenceKirsty Webeck  19:28  Yeah, I love that that you have to be able to prove that it's everywhere except for the intent Western Australia now isn't it that they changed the rules so that you've got to be able to prove that yeah gonna damage your reputation trophyAlice Tovey  19:39  ante and is that why they can do such funny headlinesKirsty Webeck  19:43  and be the kinds of people that will be suing over this stuff like have little to no reputation? For first prove that you had any kindDan Ilic  19:55  by quite frankly, for me as a bit of a small fry person I would love for someone To define me because it seems to be always easy because you can easily cushy if you define me we'll go halves in a settlement. You give me a million dollars I'll give you 500,000Sam Petersen  20:14  I'm represented by twitter.com. Dan she's got 305 pulled up all this old stuff.Kirsty Webeck  20:27  I'm making it up. I don't care. I'm ruthless.Dan Ilic  20:31  In a second, we're gonna be talking with Ben pinnings. But before we do that, we're going to play hang on a sec. Hang on a sec, is where I play something on the internet. That's real. And you chime in and say Hang on a second. I'll stop the tape. This week. Take on a sec is a real promotional video from Russia. AKA the country Russia. They put it out through the Russian Embassy in Spain on their Twitter trying to convince people to move to Russia. Right this is hang on a sec. I'll play it tell me when you want to chime in to say Hang on a second I stoppedUnknown Speaker  21:01  this is Russia delicious squizzy viewedKirsty Webeck  21:15  i Okay. Yeah. Firstly, that was a Yeah, it's a major Yep. A major yuck but I was actuallyDan Ilic  21:23  something orange and gelatinous on top of what could be maybe a stack of pancakesKirsty Webeck  21:30  Mnemic whatever it is, it's not working at its best but it was more the next slide that I was going for beautiful womenUnknown Speaker  21:37  beautiful women Yeah,Kirsty Webeck  21:39  look I'm I am an expert on beautiful women actually. And as far as I'm concerned, they are two small childrenAlice Tovey  21:50  there is a Britney Spears lyric I'm not a girl not yet a woman no those are definitely not women. Young girls the onlyKirsty Webeck  21:57  girls yeah very youngDan Ilic  21:58  it's not it's not quite right maybe you know let's not forget English is their second language.Sam Petersen  22:05  Even for like any advertisements, like even when they're doing like an Australian advertisement in Australia, they have to go through so many processes and it's it's a train minute or something Queensland gets upset they have to go on to kind of have trains the Deaf just use very young girls that are not and not gone back and changeKirsty Webeck  22:21  what Dan saying about like English being a second language like a draw card of you moving to a country because it's got beautiful young girls. Yeah, well, I can see now children are lovely. Yeah, it's still not a draw card. Even if it's an English thing it's like but what I'm not moving there because there's two sisters frolicking andUnknown Speaker  22:41  women cheap gasDan Ilic  22:49  this price the prices were having gas I'm like maybe maybe I could spend maybe I could spend non festival season in Russia.Sam Petersen  22:57  It just looks like a lot of stock footage. It just looks like they've gone through like Shutterstock and it just found heaps of footage all at once. Nothing looks like it's been shot for this ad.Alex Dyson  23:06  Yeah, I mean admittedly I've never been to Russia No, I can't actually this could be this could be faked that'sAlice Tovey  23:12  actually julong sold I'll move to historyKirsty Webeck  23:23  What's the thing we have to keep when we want to stop oh gosh I go fish oh okay well now that I've interrupted the rich history creating summers weDan Ilic  23:39  Yeah, this is gonna be in the history books. Part of it guys jump up. Be a part of the goodUnknown Speaker  23:48  world famous literature unique architecture. fertile soilSam Petersen  23:54  emphasize stop hang on a sec stop that's actually my drag name I haven't decidedUnknown Speaker  24:08  TriCity and water HangAlice Tovey  24:09  on. The bathtubs a bit of a stretch it's going a bit hotel and then kind of into horror movie with the ballet feet and the next shot and verySam Petersen  24:17  milky in the bar here. That will be GoldbergKirsty Webeck  24:22  that's a missed opportunity to say it's cheap milk as well. Even milkDan Ilic  24:26  there's a reason why this water is cheap. It's not processed right out of it.Sam Petersen  24:31  And also cheap electricity which isAlice Tovey  24:33  just got canned. I've also never seen a more beautiful board woman in my goodness.Dan Ilic  24:39  That was realistic. She'd be having an iPadUnknown Speaker  24:44  belay cheap taxi and delivery drug dish traditional values. Christianity,Sam Petersen  24:54  hang on a sec not not a huge draw. To get you to a countryKirsty Webeck  25:00  I'm for the cheap guests stay for the ChristianityDan Ilic  25:03  All right I think the next one could be great for CanadiansUnknown Speaker  25:08  no canceled culture this is your chanceSam Petersen  25:14  a lot canceled culture I think a lot of goodKirsty Webeck  25:19  Russia can't say anything anymore because if you're already canceledSam Petersen  25:28  not gonna deal right?Kirsty Webeck  25:29  They're impervious toUnknown Speaker  25:33  vodka economy that can withstand 1000s of sanctionsKirsty Webeck  25:42  but he's so funny that's the funny thingSam Petersen  25:48  it does sound like a jokeDan Ilic  25:51  but a whole world thanks just feel like this would be the perfect home for Scott Morrison. This is perfect for Australia.Sam Petersen  26:02  Get it up here. No straighteners trying to give up what am I talking about? Bloody hell what is that are you in the know the way the buddy campaign like that had such like iconic moments were on a beach and even though it's a very old ad now it was just so iconic the way they did it and the tagline and everything I love that that was the love that's gonna be my ringtoneUnknown Speaker  26:35  economy that can withstandDan Ilic  26:39  what I love about that isKirsty Webeck  26:44  like such an emphasis there like you have no idea how many sanctions just keep coming.Sam Petersen  26:51  Sorry, buddy. No cancel Kochi,Unknown Speaker  26:53  calm canceling. Winter is coming.Alice Tovey  26:58  I know that the Song of Ice and Fire or whatever the case is a little bit too far. Yeah, it'sSam Petersen  27:04  very creepy motion. Yeah. The end.Dan Ilic  27:09  I mean, typically winter does come every year. So you know, maybe it's the season. And I found thatKirsty Webeck  27:16  I could up the ante by saying the nuclear winter is coming.Dan Ilic  27:24  we interview guest has been accused by one of the world's biggest coal companies of trespass intimidation inducing company insiders to breach contracts by leaking sensitive information and irrational fear. were accusing him of being a badass, please welcome to the podcast Ben pinnings. Now been for over a year, you've been fighting this case with a Danny, for people who don't know, can you give us that as a quick summary of your story?Unknown Speaker  27:50  Yeah, well, I was one of the more prominent people in the stopping Arnie movement. And a couple of years ago, yeah, they decided to try and Sue myself. They, yes, believe I cost them 600 million. They're suing me for 17 million. They followed my wife and kids around, they applied to the court to raid our house. They've done all the dirty tricks in the book. And two years later, it's still going.Dan Ilic  28:13  It's so extreme. You've been you've been fighting this for two years. How has it taken? How has it taken a toll on your own health?Unknown Speaker  28:21  Should? Yeah, it's been. It's one of those things you don't want to say it's had too much toll on my health and my family, because you don't want to scare other people off, you know, being ratbags. But yeah, it's an unusual case. You know, there's been nothing like this in Australia for 2030 years, you know, in the ICT, it's illegal, but all the other states in Australia, it's legal to have this sort of court case. You know, lots of parts of the US and Europe, you're not allowed to do these sort of court cases, but it's legal and Queensland are down. You're going for it and they're going hard. And I'm I'm copping it Wow.Dan Ilic  28:54  Danny said that they you know, you cause them $600 million worth of damage. First of all, well done. Well done. That's allegedly, allegedly. Okay. That's a word we've said a lot. Tonight. Yeah. Everything. How was how was your court case proceeding and like when you know, how can folks help?Unknown Speaker  29:14  Well, yeah, it's gone two years, you know, I've raised or the community has been great, like people, you know, know what to do when a billionaire bully. This dude's the fourth richest person in the world, like is worth 150 billion. It's just ridiculous. And he's going after me to make me bankrupt and, you know, get my family home, etc. But there has been, you know, 910 1000 people have donated so far, about half a million bucks. But in the legal world, half million bucks is nothing. Yeah, Dan, you've obviously spent millions as well. So unfortunately, yes, I'm going to have to raise half a million bucks again, which I'm going to be launching pretty soon asking, you know, community members to put in which they have so people hate bullies. And unfortunately on the end copping it but there's been Many, many, many, many, many 1000s of Australians involved and stop at any moment. And of course, we've had an impact and being quite successful. And the Adani coal mine, which was going to be massive is now you know, small and all the other mines that were proposed for the Galilee basin are very unlikely to get up. So it's been a very successful movement. But obviously they want to make me pay and they don't like me and don't like me for good reason. But people should be able to be peaceful protesters and you know, play up and campaign for our health and well being and then have kids.Dan Ilic  30:32  Yeah, no, absolutely not even peaceful protesters fucking cause some trouble,Sam Petersen  30:36  Billboard billable oneDan Ilic  30:40  been what is the benefit of them wait and spending all this time and money? So I don't use it? Is it just to deter others from doing the same?Unknown Speaker  30:47  Yeah, it's it's hard to know. But yeah, we believe it's the tactic. So yeah, there's galley blockade, which I was known as a leader of and other organizations have been, you know, focusing on the banks and the contractors and the insurance companies and the engineering firms and really trying to convince them not to get in bed with a really, you know, dodgy company like Adani. Adani says we've been very successful, but they're blaming me individually for it. Like I'm one of many 1000s, even though I was one of the leaders there, they've picked someone to make an example of and that's me, and they haven't done it half assed and is a really big case, lots of money, you know, lawyers at 10 paces, it's, you know, I've got five lawyers, and that's nothing they've got tensile is, you know, lawyers, that costs a lot of money. But it has to it's, you know, there's precedent involved as well, like these sort of cases are called slap suits, which is strategic litigation against public participation. And yeah, what they want to do is scare other people. So it's really important that the case is one and precedent isn't set. But you know, the whole legal system like I got to be careful what I say I'm not allowed to inverted commas disrespect the court. But I don't believe these cases still exist. They're an affront to democracy, but they do exist. It doesn't happen very often. So it's very important. We went up not just for me and my family, but for the political freedom of all Australians, I suppose.Dan Ilic  32:14  Ben, have you thought about trying to, you know, use a bit of canceled culture on Gautam Adani, you'd gone through his old tweets seen a picture of your dad's party or something.Unknown Speaker  32:25  I will sit here and bite my tongue, because I'm in the middle of a court case with regards to what as you can imagine, when someone fucks over your family, it's very easy to get little revenge fantasies in your head. I won't specify those. But it's, you know, it sucks. This guy has just recently overtaken Bill Gates to be the fourth person, richest person in the world like having $150 billion. And, you know, saying what he's doing to provide for poor Indians, that is appalling. And it makes me sick, what he can get away with. It makes me sick, what multi billionaires can do, but Australia does have more political freedoms than many other places in the world. You know, if I was in India, God knows what would have happened to me, given the current close relationship between Gautam Adani and the Prime Minister Modi there. So, yeah, it's important that we do stand up and play up and do the best we can to resist, you know, why don't in my view, or climate crimes,Dan Ilic  33:21  what is the particular peculiarity of the Queensland court system that allows them to do this?Unknown Speaker  33:27  Well, it's everywhere in Australia apart from the AC t. So the AC T has a more progressive government with the labor and greens there. So these types of suits aren't legal there, but every other state, they are, like the last big one was in the 90s, against Bob Brown and some of his mates with the pulp mill there. And the good news about that is that case took six years, and ultimately, the timber company lost and they went bankrupt. So that's not going to happen with Danny but it could be two more years that I'm in the Supreme Court. So I'm in the Supreme Court in the next few days. And yeah, it's half a day in court fighting over what in my head as a civilian is ridiculous stuff. But ultimately, it's important because it affects other people over time. And you know, we do want to protect the freedom of people to get engaged in politics more than just voting going out there and civil disobedience has been so important for so long and a lot of our rights have come because of that and we need to protect itDan Ilic  34:26  Yeah, well Ben, good luck How can folks help you out?Unknown Speaker  34:30  Well look out on Facebook Twitter and all the other places in the next few days you'll see a hashtag dad Versa Danny on the dead so he's a suburban dad in Brisbane have cut the kids and a cut the step kids in a small business and, you know, a mortgage and all that sort of stuff. And, and ultimately, it's really important because I'm just an average person, in many ways, and it doesn't just affect me like it's, you know, what it's affected with regards to my wife who's never been, you know, pretty much to approach stayin alive. It's not her thing. This is messing her life around. It's messing my kids lives around by but, you know, kids who have been paranoid that they're followed by investigators because they were followed by investigators. It's pretty sad disgusting stuff. That's that's happened. And it's not good that my family has copped it. It's not good that I've copped it. And yeah, it's important that we fight. So you will see some prominent Australians taking photos of themselves with a hashtag and all that sort of stuff. Pretty much share it around donate if you can. It's going to be in the media. You just look up or down in court case and you'll find my aging mug andDan Ilic  35:41  well then I'll definitely tweet a picture. But we're going to change the hashtag it's going to be DadBod Versa Donnie.Unknown Speaker  35:48  Well, yeah, so I'm trying to go to the gym to minimize that one. But it seems like the yes gravity in the sands of time like beat the gym for some reason.Dan Ilic  35:57  I will make sure we put all the information in the show notes. Well, that is it for rational fi big thank you to Alice tovi Kirsty Weaver, just Sam Peterson and Ben, thank you so much. Let's get to the plugs. Our Sweetwater plug,Alice Tovey  36:08  hey, so I'm going to be in Launceston in a few weeks doing a few shows or otherwise just go to Alice toby.com and see what I'm doing and film filling out yes, I've just madeSam Petersen  36:18  for some great things about it. Oh,Alice Tovey  36:21  you're so sweet. I'm Yes, I have a film out called hands. So look at festival programs that'll be coming out eventually.Dan Ilic  36:27  Yeah, so ISam Petersen  36:29  have a podcast every week called Confessions of the idiots. It's very fun podcast and I've got a live show happening on the seventh of October in Melbourne with Australia today on Missy Higgins Jess Perkins and of course Dave Lawson will be there my pretty much another co host will be there as well and maybe Sophie to hit you know and the Oliver Clark will be there as well. The two golden tonsils of Australia yours Peter Hitchens episodes Yeah. Sorry. It's such a beautiful person I suppose in the world. So yeah, conditions of the idiots on everything. Because your way back.Kirsty Webeck  37:00  I'm all over the interwebs I'm under my name. Curtsy way back on all social media platforms could really use a boost on tick tock.Sam Petersen  37:10  To go, Oh, you did a great sort of Zagami what else?Kirsty Webeck  37:13  Did it do go on podcast. A week ago, that was very, very funny. And also, I'm working on a new show for a national tour next year. So Kirsty wibit.com is my website and you can sign up to my mailing list there to find out where I'm gonna be and how funny I'll be.Dan Ilic  37:29  And Ben, where can people find you?Unknown Speaker  37:30  Find me on Ben pennings.com or just search for Danny court case and you'll be able to see all sorts of media things and yep, help out as you can.Dan Ilic  37:38  Alright, chip in. Big thanks to everyone for joining the show tonight. Don't forget we've got our Fody show on the 17th of September at Carriageworks. Huge show. Big thank you to Jacob round, who did the incredible sketch production tonight. Rode mics our Patreon supporters and we're we're recording today stupid old studios big thank you to them. Thank you guys. All right. Until next time, there's always something to be scared of. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.