A Rational Fear

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ SEE OUR NEXT LIVE SHOW AT THE FESTIVAL OF DANGEROUS IDEAS: https://festivalofdangerousideas.com/program/secretive-australia/In the space of 72 hours we saw the birth, the brightly burning and death of the Scott Morrison Many Ministry Meme. We have a new podcast from A Rational Fear featuring the A Rational Fear twitter key holder, Killian David, and one of the few conservative voices in Australian comedy that’s not Rowan Dean — James McCann from the James Donald Forbes McCann Catamaran Plan Podcast. 🎟️ SEE OUR NEXT LIVE SHOW AT THE FESTIVAL OF DANGEROUS IDEAS:https://festivalofdangerousideas.com/program/secretive-australia/Dan Ilic  0:00  Hello, irrational fear. It's good to be back. We are kind of easing our way back into weekly shows for the rest of 2022. Thing is, it's just been so exhausting. We've had the election, I've had to go on holidays, I then went on another holiday and you know, I might even go on another holiday. And you know what that means? It's just it's difficult to do a regular podcast. But good news is we're doing live shows we've got a big live show coming up for the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. September 17, at Carriageworks is all about Australia and how Australia is the most secretive, liberal democracy in the world. It's great. We've got a great lineup, Kate McClymont, from the Sydney Morning Herald Damian case for the New York Times Amber Schultz, who of course has done this show a few times before she's from crikey, Lewis Harbor, who you know, he's, he's the boomer that's on Triple J. Daniel, which that's me and David McBride, who is a whistleblower lawyer who was the guy who basically told the press about our war crimes in Afghanistan, he's gonna be doing the show as well. It's going to be an incredibly funny and strange live show all about secrecy. Who knows we all may go to jail, but you know, that's that's for the good of everybody listening. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on Gadigal land in the Euro nation, sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start tonight's show.Simon Chilvers  1:18  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of a rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:31  Tonight Scott Morrison reveals he was also secretly sworn in as Prime Minister of Australia, and the Labour Party has achieved what many people thought was impossible. They passed a bill that nearly does something effective on climate change, and unemployment hits a new low of 3.4% with the creation of 20,200 new jobs last quarter that Scott Morrison had to give up after the election. It's the 19th of August and with more jobs for the boys, the New South Wales nationals. This is irrational fear.James Donald McCann  1:58  I can't hear anything, I'm sorry.Dan Ilic  2:14  Welcome to rational fear. I'm your host, former Royal National Park Daniel edge, and this is the podcast that takes the news and gives it a nice warm blanket and a cup of tea. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. He's a comedy writer, improviser and as the key to the irrational fear Twitter account. It's Killian, David. Hello.Killian David  2:29  Thanks for having me.Dan Ilic  2:30  What have you tweeted lately, that's going to put us in jail,Killian David  2:33  something about Scott Morrison as some of the hypeDan Ilic  2:38  around it. And he's gonna buy a podcast with his Patreon money. It's the host of the James Donald falls McCann catamaran plan, James McCann,James Donald McCann  2:47  it's so nice to be here until I make a technical error and disappear once again. You would think two years of pandemic two years of pandemic I'd get it rightAlex Dyson  2:56  you know, and you know, for people who are new to James we can James McCann has this podcast called The James Donald forms McCann catamaran plan, and he's been begging people to book him on their podcast to get rich for his podcast, because he considers himself to be a good talent of which he is.James Donald McCann  3:13  I tell you, Dan to smash into hurdle number one, so swiftly as promptly, right? There's no hubris about me being on mumbling with the 19th ranked comedy podcasts in Australia. I'm humbled. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so sorry for my burden that I bring to the show.Dan Ilic  3:30  Yes. And for people who are listening on the podcast, I'm sure the bit where you logged on and couldn't hear anything has been cut out. So that's what we're referring to. For people listening toJames Donald McCann  3:39  it was the five minutes of racial slurs thatUnknown Speaker  3:44  as well, we can't do that. ThanksKillian David  3:46  to the Patreon and your your crew.Alex Dyson  3:49  James, where are you at with your catamaran plan, how's how's the fundraising going for your catamaran you started the podcast in order to get it insanely popular. So you could buy a catamaran, we're atJames Donald McCann  4:00  work? That's a great question. And you're not, we're the listeners growing the monetization hard, very difficult. So we had, we had about $3,000. And then I don't know if you're aware, but the cost of milk has exploded. Once I get my tax return back, I hope to get it back up to $3,000. Discreetly, maybe I shouldn't say that publicly, you know, I'm sure it'll be fine. And so make sure you can extort from yourself. So I'll pay myself back and then we have only what 490 $700,000 To go oh, thisDan Ilic  4:33  is exciting. Coming up later, we're going to be talking with Scott Morrison who's going to be taking over as host of this show. But first here's a message from this week's sponsor, a human washed up former leader of a minor political party and want a new job but you're worried that a life in Parliament has left you with no discernible skills or friends and simply log on to jobs for the boys.co.ck at jobs for the boys dot COC you'll find a list of well paid board placements in fossil fuels and defense as well as detailed instructions on how to start off farm in regional Tasmania and never be heard from again to make a profile simply upload your contact book to the platform and jobs for the boys will reach out to you for a quiet word in a noisy place in the middle of the day somewhere around Monica. And if you're a woman try our sister site. It hasn't been invented yet jobs for the boys dot COC is a sponsor of irrational fear. All right, this week's first fear Scott Morrison's many ministries Now we all know the story. He's a man of many ministries. During his time in Parliament, Scott secretly swore himself into two extra ministries at the height of the pandemic. So that pretty much telling anyone, and then as things got better, he was like, Hey, I like having these extra ministries. I'm gonna, I'm gonna sign myself into three more. He signed himself into resources, Home Affairs, possibly the most powerful of all the ministries and Treasury as well. He's doing well, you know, might as well be the man and be the money man, too. So what's going on here? Like? Should we be upset that Scott Morrison has gone ahead and secretly sworn himself into so many ministries? Kellyanne, let's start with you.Killian David  6:01  I think we should give him a bit of a break. I mean, he was sorry, BenDan Ilic  6:05  Ford, and we'll start with you.Killian David  6:06  Let's I mean, as he said, like he he was steering the ship in The Tempest. Yeah. You know, and we were all on the show. We were I mean, instead of walk in his shoes, as he said, in the, in his freezer, I mean, all this talk about being on the shore and walking his shoes that made me think that perhaps he was the next thing was going to say it was how he was walking on the sand. And there's only one step sort of footprints and, and then it turns out that Jesus was carrying him.Dan Ilic  6:39  Yeah. For a long time, I was followed by two sets of footprints, and all of a sudden, there was no footprint footprints. What happened there I swore myself in as Jesus. And then I carried myself. Yeah, IKillian David  6:52  like the way that he was talking about, you know, like, you know, how was it for me, you know, to be in my shoes. I'm sure that his empathy coach was on the sidelines going,Dan Ilic  6:59  Yeah, that's it. You guys don't know what it's like to be Prime Minister. It's hard out there. It's hard. The prime minister, not many people get to be Prime Minister. It's difficult. It's very hard. James. Look, you would you count yourself as a Scott Morrison fan. Oh, look,James Donald McCann  7:14  he's a loser. He failed to deliver that election. And that's a problem. From an ironic point of view, I'm strapped up all my, you know, good lefty, inner city mates. You jumping up and down, like they can't believe he's done it. This is like the proof that he was always an evil man. I'm trying to figure out a way to care about what he's done. I really like I bet I place up you can I'm allow information, humble, suburban father of two, he took on extra jobs at a difficult time. He doesn't seem to have abused that power at all. And it's so within the confines of what you're allowed to do as prime minister, he if he had done that, without the consent of the Governor General. I'm one of these absolute monarchy people I should say, as well. So all the stuff that we should sack the Governor General, this is insane. He's the Prime Minister. He's the first servant, and he decided to serve in an extended capacity. You know, there's a formality of cabinet consultation early on.Killian David  8:13  Yeah.Alex Dyson  8:14  Do you think the secrecy stuff is weird? Don't you think the whole thing about no either? Yes, I find it weird, like hiding, hiding the fact that you have undercut your ministers by also becoming an executor of those ministries as well. Totally undercutting the ministry in particular, when it comes to the coalition, right. Like to have resources Minister Kate Spade, who is a national being charged of, of such a strong ministry, which is part of the national agreement, they all about power sharing. And then to come through and go, you know, that nationals guy, I don't really trust him.James Donald McCann  8:46  But I don't believe that the grips on Twitter, who are going ham are doing so because they so respect the National Party, and the role that they should have in the coalition. And this is the problem with Scott Morrison times. It's like something weird that our loser would do. Like he didn't even do if he'd done it right now. But it's like pulling your pants all the way down to the ground to take a piece at the urinal. He it doesn't appear to have been for any other reason than he thought it was appropriate at the timeDan Ilic  9:13  health and finance, housing finance, I totally understand, right, that was at the peak of the pandemic, but resources Home Affairs Treasury like those three like resources that's got nothing to do with the pandemic. Like we couldJames Donald McCann  9:25  have had a war with China at any point. And then we're gonna need to get that out.Dan Ilic  9:28  Yeah. Well, the one thing he did jibes as as as resources minister was canceled fossil fuel projects, which I'm very, I'm very much in favor of, I think that's fantastic.James Donald McCann  9:37  Go ahead. Judas. And so the Liberal Party should be furious.Dan Ilic  9:42  Yeah, we should we should be celebrating him for that. We should we should build a plaque for Scott Morrison becauseKillian David  9:49  I don't understand inadvertently.Dan Ilic  9:51  It's really quite offensive to all those other ministers who are on his team, who had no idea that he was also the CO executor of those ministries please another point of view,James Donald McCann  10:01  but they sack them like this. This is the third. This was the third batch. Abbott came in with some hot talent on that front bench. They all fucking went abroad where was hockey Where's Bishop second ministry Turnbull the moderates get to go there narrow fuckin gone where we're dealing with yourself. Yeah, I mean heUnknown Speaker  10:25  was Greg Clark was there James Greg Hunt was on the front bench. He was theJames Donald McCann  10:28  Birmingham Whoopty doo. I mean, these people are not talent. This isKillian David  10:33  he was keeping Marcin was keeping these ministers at a distance not telling them because he needed to make room for the Holy SpiritDan Ilic  10:44  the biggest stuff up with the with the pandemic was, was not replying to those emails from Pfizer, which, which was really quite a major fuckup Greg hands team totally is totally in the tank for but at the time, Scott Morrison was also health minister like he would have gotten those emails to Surely you know, like,James Donald McCann  11:07  yeah, I don't know that he's a big emails guy rightDan Ilic  11:10  here. Yeah, he's a Facebook guy that the CEO of the CEO of Pfizer should have put it on Facebook.James Donald McCann  11:17  If he'd reached out on LinkedIn, Scotty would have been there. Have you seen Comos LinkedInDan Ilic  11:20  is it isn't popping off?James Donald McCann  11:23  Well, I think elbow didn't even have a LinkedIn, which is why he didn't kill it with the, you know, like $150,000 a year. Equity bros. Yeah. Like the AFR, I think had an article about like, How could anyone run for high office without LinkedIn? Like, what fucking world are these people live inDan Ilic  11:42  Scott Morrison and LinkedIn, the reason why he loves LinkedIn so much is really the platform for the unemployed. Because anytime you ever use LinkedIn, it's when you're unemployed.James Donald McCann  11:49  I've ever it's about making connections with people. I think he could do the religious. I mean, really, that's what he loves. Right? Is that the pinto hand in the air stuff. And he's clearly good at like, whenever there's a clip of him doing one of the pinto things. He's great. Like he is a much less guarded, when he's saying things like that. Trust that government. I've met these people, that's a better use of his faculties and what he believes all he can do is be a communicator, and you would never let him near a company again, but if all it is is like, who wants to show up in a room and listen to Scott Morrison, some people some not me, some people would want to do that. You could be a mega church leaderDan Ilic  12:26  saying like this. Yeah, the Scott Morrison mega church isn't is in the works like merchandise, self help, books, music. I mean, you can play the ukulele. This is great.James Donald McCann  12:37  He likes to sing. And he's these these hand people. He's got the hand of the so I'm like,Killian David  12:42  you can he can make his own crucifixions because he can chop down trees? No, no.James Donald McCann  12:48  They don't do that.Dan Ilic  12:50  James, can you give me just one good reason why this is a storm in a teacup why we should turn it out, turn our eyes away from this crazy secrecy.James Donald McCann  13:01  I would honestly say that I think of all the horrible abuses of power that were perpetrated, and lack of oversight that were done during the COVID pandemic. This is the one about which like, literally, nobody noticed. Like not only not only was it it wasn't just secret. And like it was deemed such as not a threat to our democracy, that people who knew about it, and were writing the book about him didn't blow a whistle. They're like, Ah, well, right after the election, we'll have a booker offer. Yeah, I mean, this is he's not even he's not even resigning. He went in. I thought he was going to when he gave that speech, right? The text message has been coming out and people are going Scott, he's gone. It's gone. It's gone. He came and he was like, oh, I want to I want to resign from the sea and the shock. He's not get up this year in the fall. It's like, he's sticking around. He's got his money. He's got his pensionKillian David  13:52  around. We should all be ashamed of ourselves as well. Yeah. Even daring to insinuate that he was doing anything wrong.Dan Ilic  13:58  For my scenes. I did watch that entire press conference. It was an hour and six minutes, I think. And it was like reliving the hits. You know, it was just like,James Donald McCann  14:08  he's back baby. It's likeAlex Dyson  14:10  this. Everything I did was totally fine. I know. I was never wrong. I apologize if you were offended. AndScott Morrison  14:21  that's a matter for the Queensland Government. I mean, that's a matter for the premier. That's a matter that I'll raise with other premiers and chief ministers. That's really a question to the brilliant. That's a matter of I'm happy to take up with the other premiers and chief ministers a rationalDan Ilic  14:33  fear this way. Second fear the climate bill, climate change bill passed a couple of weeks ago. What this means is 43% Cut blow to 2005 levels to reach net zero by 2050. And the climate change authority is back with teeth. It's there to advise on the target, which is exciting. Another thing that the bill in Thurs is that there's going to be an annual State of the Climate from the climate change minister. They're gonna do that every year. I don't know if that's enough. But yes, we're here at the Climate Change Minister once a year. Once a year, we're gonna hear from the cloud, how hot it's getting. That's exciting. And then a whole bunch of agencies are going to encourage everyone to be good boys and girls, and that is generally the gist of the climate change bill. There's also this thing called the safeguard mechanism that's been in place for some time. It was a little policy that James's friend Tony Abbott brought it into 2016. It had kind of it kind of had, like a punitive measures against business who didn't meet their emissions targetJames Donald McCann  15:27  was just admitted. It's a great it's a great measure and Tony Abbott's a great man. It's been long enough,Dan Ilic  15:34  Tony Abbott is a great man. Better than Scott Morrison, I would say he's better than Scott. Finally, who are these people, Tony Abbott, bringing in the safeguard mechanism, Scott Morrison canceling the pay pay. Fossil fuel projects,Killian David  15:51  brace the bloody hippies,Dan Ilic  15:53  I've had I've had these liberal Prime Ministers are wrong. These are climate heroes. These are people doing their best in a system. It's pretty kind of like a bit of a weak climate bill. But I still think it's going to be pretty good in terms of moving forwardKillian David  16:09  with teeth is like, yeah, teeth that can be pulled out, one by one.Dan Ilic  16:15  And then in America, the inflation Reduction Act came in last week as well. So that was a $370 billion act with only $60 billion inside that 370 billion to do with climate action. The bill also includes a bunch of provisions, that essentially means the federal government has to allow auctions of oil and gas on federal land. So that was the big concession to fossil fuels. How do you feel about climate change? James, I don't, I don't really know your position.James Donald McCann  16:41  I mean, I'm broadly against you know, I like I like nature. I look up, my religion does not permit contraception. So my children keep coming. And I'm poor. So if I, if I say, can, I mean, like, if this was it, I would be lying. If I said this was a top 10. For me, it's like who's going to help me find a house that stops my children getting tuberculosis is where I'm at, I'm really at hand to mouth, I can't express to you how much of me having a technical issue at the start of this podcast, was due to like, very, very poor in an efficient technology on mine. If there's one thing that this sort of Bill can change, though, which I would like to appeal to my patriotism. This is not quite to do with climate change. But it is disgusting that all we do as a country is the shit out of the ground. Like that is what annoys me is that as a Australian, and I love my country, this bait, it's basically all we seem capable of doing. There's no like, proper Australia, there's no car industry, there's no fashion industry, we've got these big cities, I can't think of a good app that's come out of this country. I can't think of one app.Dan Ilic  17:48  I just don't think I just delete one this week, I just deleted the COVID Safe app, that was a good app that came out.James Donald McCann  17:53  Thank you. Thank you, Scotty, you know, Minister for digital innovation, too, while you're at it. So if we can, like I actually don't mind as clamping down on these industries, if only because I find them to be extremely boring, like beyond whatever negative impact that I'm sure they are having on the environment. They just sack like they don't help anyone.Alex Dyson  18:15  Except for the shareholders and for the owners themselves. Yeah.James Donald McCann  18:19  Yeah. Who ever then use that money to do what buy another investment property? Yeah. And like, it's just holes and houses is that really all we're gonna do as a nation,Dan Ilic  18:27  I've got a sketch coming out next week. And it's all about gas and the gas prices. And some of the insane things the gas companies have done over the last 30 years is, is it's totally counterintuitive to helping out anything, helping out this whole situation with Australia and our gas supply. So 80% of the gas that we make goes basically overseas, and the largest user of that gas is the gas companies themselves. It takes about 8% of the gas to actually put it on a boat and ship it overseas. So that's, that's wasted gas. The gas prices are locked at 2002 prices from when John Howard was in power, he did this deal with the gas gas companies that they could they could sell at 2002 prices internationally for 30 years so that that deal is still going and so it's not in the it's not in the gas company's interest at all to sell to Australia at a cheaper rate. Because when because they need to sell overseas at this 2002 rate. Because the propertyJames Donald McCann  19:25  stones know it takes a men with guns, match them into the office and get something done. That was the most exciting Whitlam thing with you know, is that we were going to we were going to nationalize industry. We were going to build pump pipelines. And I'm sure the progressive leftist today wouldn't be opposed to this because it would be very carbon problematic, but it's like so much money that we haven't touched because what we're afraid of the CIA killing us if we stop exporting that money and giving it to big companies like I think that's the reason we haven't nationalized gas right now.Dan Ilic  19:57  The reason why well the reason why the reason why we We don't have Gough Whitlam anymore or people like him is because the CIA got rid of him because they he wanted to get rid of Pine Gap. That was a military thing.James Donald McCann  20:08  I reckon. I reckon it's both. I reckon I was gonna he was doing a lot of stuff, and he was going to use that money to this is a different conversation. I don't want it. But it's like to be an independent power. We've got to get a nuclear bomb. I've said the only thing people remember from me saying this is I'm trying to buy a catamaran Jameson, of course became catamaran plan number two, can we get a nuclear weapon please, if necessary?Dan Ilic  20:35  Yes, fuck the subs, let's get a catamaran for jibes? Do you think this do you think Australia needs a catamaran plan, James?James Donald McCann  20:43  Well, look, I mean, that's one industry that I'm trying to put forward that we could do as a country. That's a little more exciting than just digging stuff out of the ground. Could we have you know, an expert? Can we have an ABC series that people want to watch? That's not miss Fisher's murder mystery? Or did you hear that podcast a friend? Kelly's getting tongue ballads? Oh, geek. What's going on with that? Yeah.Dan Ilic  21:05  Did you listen to the drop with as men for key? Did Oh, Kelly.James Donald McCann  21:09  God bless her. She's 105 years old. I don't know if people know that.Dan Ilic  21:14  Yeah, I mean, she's a great broadcaster. I think you know, people who watch the ABC love her. And I think that makes sense. Yeah, ABC perspective.Unknown Speaker  21:20  Let's find but you know,Dan Ilic  21:22  the average age of the ABC viewer is like 70. Like, it's not it's not young people. When I say young people were in our 40s and sci fi five.James Donald McCann  21:32  But even within the paradigm, even if you're just going to narrow well, right, we're going to have over 50s ABC presenters and we're going to use we're going to friend Kelly is not the one who you listen to and go. That's our that's Australia's David Letterman right there. Lee sales is out of a job. What do we do and she's sparkling She's witty, she's good on that podcast. Where's Lee, youDan Ilic  21:52  should have the have you been having conversations with any musical theater people folks on this podcast? Because they are livid that AFL player has gotten a starring role in Joseph and Technicolor DreamcoatJames Donald McCann  22:02  offensive hiring of Shane crew are that's jazz hands up. Yeah,Dan Ilic  22:07  James, you've got this great podcast. It's one of my favorite podcasts. I listened to it. Whenever it comes in, I listened to it. It is a very vulnerable podcast, you share a lot of yourself in it. And you have hilarious production in it. The way you use music and repetition, and your post production makes me laugh, like a little boy, is very, very funny. And the whole premise of you going out there with a podcast to try and raise enough money to buy a catamaran is so stupid as someone who's had a podcast going for 10 years and hasn't made too much money from this podcast.James Donald McCann  22:48  I don't know how to I Yeah, monetizing. It does seem to be hard. Everybody does have a party. But that's so nice. That's really nice for you to say, I love doing it. I mean, look, I think it's the best podcasts that I'm currently making of all of them. And it is nice to just have a but again, I think I think I'm mentally ill. I don't want to get into the vulnerability, but it's just it's nice to have like one overarching thing of like, all right, it's all for the boat. When I'm doing a book of poems at the moment that I wrote of last fortnight we had an ad auction. I'm like, I'm selling mugs to people. But it's like at what point do you go I you know, you look back at yourself and you take stock and you go oh my perhaps I'm not well, you know, how long can we pepper over this with a boat ambition? Yeah.Dan Ilic  23:30  So you're doing all these things. You know, you're doing the the art auction, the poem book, which is 911 and Marlon Brando.James Donald McCann  23:40  Yeah, Marlon Brando. 911, beautiful poems that everybody will love. Here's the thing about the poetry, I don't understand why people go, Oh, you can't make money selling poetry, you should be able to make the most money out of poetry, because it's very few pages. And it's not doesn't take very long to write because I've only got a couple of words on each page. So really, you should be able to churn them out and you charge the same amount of money. That's the crazy thing. The profit margin on a book of poems is through the roof. It's just that people hate poems.Dan Ilic  24:04  That's about it for a rational fear this week. Big thank you to our guests, James McCann. Thank you, James.James Donald McCann  24:11  Dan, a pleasure. I'm sorry if I just shared it. That's okay.Dan Ilic  24:14  I think we're having a very robust, it's good to have a robust discussion. James. I'mUnknown Speaker  24:18  glad we're having this rope and I say anything. cancelable No,Dan Ilic  24:21  no, you didn't say anything canceled. I think we might lose some Patreon supporters, but hopefully they go to your podcast. Julian, very nice to have you on we'll have you on properly another time. Lovely. Yes. It's great to be on. Thank you. Do you guys have anything to plug killing? Do you have anything plugged? I'd like toJames Donald McCann  24:37  plug James's podcast. I want to take this opportunity to plug this podcast irrational fear. I want to say when I was I did your podcast long before I have my own podcast and you were at the cabaret festival. And you were kind enough to have me on. And Daniel, your work ethic is singular. In this business. I don't know anyone who has your work ethic or Your understanding of the industry to make it work. It's it's kept.Dan Ilic  25:04  I haven't. I will talk about it.James Donald McCann  25:09  I don't think we're ruthless ambition for power cancers and mental illness is sort of strength. I hope Fran Kelly gets on the phone to you and gets you in charge of that show. Dan. I think you're the only man with the experience running a show of that kind in Australia. pram. Kelly, pick up the blower Get this man working again.Dan Ilic  25:27  That's very kind I don't I don't do producing anymore. I just I'm just telling James. I'm just telling you these days. I've drawn a line. I'm like, I'm not I'm not I'm not on the tools anymore. Okay. Well, FranJames Donald McCann  25:36  Kelly do the right thing. Resign and allow the ABC to hire Dan for your job. There we go.Dan Ilic  25:42  Exactly. Or give it give it to a young person kombucha young Daniel Young. Used to be it used to be we all used to be ABC standards. I was really I was really hoping to get that TV show when I was a young person. Now I'm an old person. That ship has sailed give the show to a 40 year old white man demand a demand it's not very fashionable anymore Is it? Please if you are in Sydney on in September come to rational fear at the festival Dangerous Ideas September 17. Came a climate Damien cave The New York Times. Amber shields from crikey Louis harbor myself, David McBride is also going to be there. Deelen Bay is going to be DJing it's going to be great for some dangerous ideas. September's emptied big thank you to rode mics, also to our Patreon supporters for sticking around hanging hanging around still paying the Patreon even though he didn't give a show last week last month. I've been busy. I've been busy trying to try to feed feed my family. And also big thanks to Jacob brown and a big thank you to James and Killian as well for joining us tonight. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ SEE OUR NEXT LIVE SHOW AT THE FESTIVAL OF DANGEROUS IDEAS:https://festivalofdangerousideas.com/program/secretive-australia/G'day Fearmongers —After looking at all the data it was discovered that most of you don't listen all the way through the podcast, so that means most of you have never heard Lewis Hobba go on a deranged un-hinged rant about some minutiae.So — here in this episode of A Rational Fear, we've pulled together the best bits of Lewis in about a 50min episode.If you manage to listen all the way through https://www.instagram.com/lewishobba/https://twitter.com/LewisHobbaEnjoy.DanLewis Hobba  0:00  Hello, hello. Hello Daniel, IDan Ilic  0:01  discovered something. When I looked at the podcast analytics. Oh, yeah. What's that? That 1000s of people listen to us, hey, it wasn't discovered they tend to turn off about halfway through the podcast. All right. And what does that make you think? I think? Well, I here's what I think. I think they get they're missing out. They're missing out on a crucial component of the show, Louis?Lewis Hobba  0:24  Yeah. Because I'll tell you what it makes me think. I always close the show. Every live show, I slave away, sometimes for up to an hour, working on a funny little series of jokes. And I put them right at the end of the show. And it's a barnstorming performance. People always say you got to stick around to the end. Louis homeboyz closes the show. He's very funny Crusher, they call me a crushes comedy. And so these table you're telling me that the 1000 people who listen to the podcast, they don't even know what I do there. They don't know why I'm there. Everyone doesn't even know what you're doing on the weekly shows. Who's this guy that's on the weekly shows. I know we listen to the live show. He just he just hangs out there writing on Dan's coattails. I mean, people have said that to me before and we'll say it to me again. But right now I'm period. Well, here's what I've done. I've put together a special of all of your bits back to back so people can enjoy you 100% of the time on this episode of rational fear. That's interesting, because I wonder how it'll be like, I do think a little bit of Louis five minutes each episode is probably good. I wonder if you put all of it back to back if it'll just sound like the unhinged ravings of a lunatic? Yeah, ofDan Ilic  1:31  course it will. Because you are renowned for being an unhinged raving lunatic on irrational fear. Well, the good news is they can turn off any time, which turns out to be about halfway through,Lewis Hobba  1:38  oh, my God. So the back half of this, we'll have to put the podcast out again. And then maybe finally, you'll actually listen to me.Dan Ilic  1:50  If you want to hear more of loose, please sign up to our Patreon.Lewis Hobba  1:53  And if you want to hear less, sign up to the Patreon and leave a little note saying less, Louis, please, and I'll just quit. I'll quit. I'll do it.Dan Ilic  2:02  And if you are on Patreon, you are getting this first you're getting this special episode a week before everybody else. So there are there are benefits of being on the Patreon though. That's they're very scant.Lewis Hobba  2:12  Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we we have so little to offer. But we are very, very grateful. So thank you. And thank you for listening to so much me yelling so much me yelling before people head into this 50 minute episode. Do you minutes.Unknown Speaker  2:28  Are you insane? Well, it's your fluids. You've done soDan Ilic  2:31  many great bits, so we needed to put them all together. That's fucking insane. Well, you fucking destroy the show. Like you're really good. Like in the live setting. It's just that no one has heardLewis Hobba  2:41  God believe I've been doing this podcast for 10 years and no one's heard me.Dan Ilic  2:46  outright. Should instead of closing the show.Unknown Speaker  2:50  On open the show and leaveLewis Hobba  2:53  the disrespect. So what are you gonna? WhatDan Ilic  2:55  are you gonna tell? What are you gonna tell?Lewis Hobba  2:56  I honestly, I don't even know. From all the episodes. Yeah, yeah, there's probably some great gear there from 2013. You can cancel it. Great. Yeah, if you can take out. You can't see blackface on a podcast. Thank god. Okay, good. As long as you can't see that. We should be all sweet. I don't know what's in here. But I've been angry about so much, so much over the years. And I hope you enjoy it. And please, I love you remember that at the end? You'll see me at the back. It's a joke. I'm very tall. It's a it's a good visual gag. But the podcast was actually going to be a lot of those. So if you're listening at home, I'm sorry. I'm not the biggest event on the planet is happening right now. The World Cup of football around half the world's population will watch it but our Socceroos had been knocked out. And thank God because now we can fully focus on the other global event happening this weekend. The TV week Logie awards. Yes, good. Whoa. on other continents young boys and girls will huddle around TVs to watch Messi. Ronaldo, Iniesta and dream that they one day to may hold the golden cup aloft. And here in Australia, kids will huddle around the 79 inch flat screen and sayUnknown Speaker  4:19  mama, papa, when I grow up, can I be on the project?Lewis Hobba  4:27  Can I sit next to Steve Price my mom ever so racist Shaw, it's easy to make fun of the logos, and that's why I'm gonna do it. Yes, I'm a hack who grabs that low hanging fruit. The height makes it easy. And then I hold it in front of grant tenure and I make him jump for it. Jump for it grant It used to be that the low yeas were vapid, they would glorify dumb and vacuous television and never acknowledge anything cool. But that's all changed now, because no one watches TV so you can safely say that every show nominated for a low GI is a cult favorite. One guy nominated for the gold low GI this year is on a show called love it all listed. The most recent episode of that show had 46,000 viewers. 46,000 Viewers, that's the ratings of my mom's Instagram Stories.Unknown Speaker  5:39  Check her out your mom's really hot.Lewis Hobba  5:41  I mean, the thirst traps are weird, but her unboxing videos are good. Personally, I actually think it's good to say the luggage is getting behind a little guy. And I don't just mean granted Yeah. I mean, the underground battlers with no viewers like A Current Affair. I mean, they've been talking about that list for so long, they should just do an episode on themselves. The World Cup might be big, but in Australia, no one could even see it for the first week. At least viewers know they will definitely be able to watch the logos they won't but they could if they want it. But then eventually after Optus shat the bed and finally let SPS screen the games. People got angry that the hosts from SBS was pronouncing foreign His names correctly. Lucy's Elitch host of the world game and the only person in the country able to cope with Craig Foster was he's hot but he's Shut up Craig. Lucy's elige was dragged for being multilingual by Internet commenters who are barely single lingual. I mean, it's If Lucy zellige Lola hosted the logos she would have given the gold logo to cast a fan of it. Which is a bit real for my friend Dan Ilic. When I met him he was still pretending to be white.Dan Ilic  7:17  I decolonizeLewis Hobba  7:19  but the log is have had a huge shakeout this year for the first time ever. Televisions night of nights will be held in Australia's shithole of shitholes the Gold Coast the gold The World Cup is being held in Russia, where the government kills people. The luggages will be held in the Gold Coast where Dreamworld kills people two years too soon, we can cut it. Of course it always used to be in Melbourne where it wasn't a very cool back alley, and there were plenty of milk crates for grant Daniel to stand on so he could look normal size people in the eye. But now it'll be in the Gold Coast wherever and I'll be so busy is vey over vomiting from the passion pop. It will actually still be back down to Greg Daniels level. Which is nice. I think. Ben Danya has big dick energy that is actually a good call. I mean, he's had enough ice he can go all night.Sami Shah  8:29  Allegedly pursuesUnknown Speaker  8:31  rational fear.Lewis Hobba  8:33  Now as a Victorian he lives in Sydney always kind of felt like Switzerland in the Sydney Melbourne debate. I think they're both great. You know, Melbourne has the food and the footy. Sydney has the beaches and the beauty but it was always one trump card that Melbourne had to play when it came to its victory over Sydney hidden in a little laneway was a secret spot called crown Casino.Now as long as Sydney didn't have a crown casino it would always be Melvin's poor cousin. Everyone knew it. It's all anyone talked about up here. When will we get a crown? Where can I go if I want to gamble and eat at restaurants that already exists pretty close by? Well, you could go to star casino I'd say the star they'd say that a crown the city can never be kingand then, like a white knight riding in on his glimmering super yacht kames James Packer he built a new crown right here. It would herald a new dawn of subtle sophistication. Right here in the Emerald City. I'm talking a hidden tucked away 22 hectares of land and almost impossible to spot 75 For casino and all owned and run by a family business. The Packers for a moment, Sydney was the happiest place on earth. Then before I even got a chance to take my call Melbourne friends to Barangaroo for a hit night of gambling. I find out the crown can open in Sydney. Apparently some intern who calls himself a former Supreme Court justice suddenly decided after an 18 month investigation, the crown is unsuitable to run a casino because crown casino in Melbourne has a long history of money laundering. Melbourne isn't that keen typical? Not only does it have the better restaurants, it's better at money laundering. If I have to if I want to money launder I have to drive 10 hours down the tube to turn my drug money into chips. It's outrageous. You don't ban someone for money laundering. Remember last year when Westpac accidentally forgot to mention 19 point 5 million transactions of money laundering that gave them a little fine. No one went to prison. It was an accident. It was 19 point 5 million accidents. We crown only made one mistake one little money laundering mistake hoops punster mother has known once organized a junket for a triad gang to dumb profits of crime for over a decade.Unknown Speaker  11:34  Look me in the eye and tell me you haven't done it.Lewis Hobba  11:38  Honestly, telling crown they can't operate money laundering casinos. It's like telling Asha Gunzburg you can't host TV. It's what they were born to do. Without crown jobs will be lost. Can you imagine the layoffs in the triad gangs? I don't want to be the guy at Centrelink who has to tell a hitman he can't apply for job keeper. Not only will people not be able to launder money, help people gamble. Are you telling me people can just gamble on their phones?Unknown Speaker  12:12  At any time on literally anything.Lewis Hobba  12:16  I'm old fashioned. I book my holidays that a travel agent. I bind my horn at a sex shop. And I like to gamble in a giant penis shaped building. I don't want to gamble on a machine that fits in my pocket. I want to gamble in a big machine filled with coins like a robot leprechaun I'm worried about what will happen to the beautiful Barangaroo if crown can open its casino usually when you're not allowed in a Sydney building. It's for a normal reason like it has cracks and it's about to fall down. But right now in Sydney there is a 75 storey money laundering cop just sitting there on the harbor disord I mean, what are we gonna do with an empty building with a fucking crowd on top of it? It limits the options are you gonna rent it to crown laga it'd be as a bigger crime than money laundering. What are we going to do literally rent it out to like a royal family. The closest Australia has to a royal family is the Hemsworth there Byron house is nicer than Barangaroo. If this nanny state won't let James Packer open his money loaning factory, I do actually have a few ideas of what we could do with the empty space. Now your average Twitter teardrop will tell you that it should be used for public housing or COVID quarantine hotels. How about this? It's got a lot of CCTV cameras. Big Brother house if you think crown's reputation is too bad for a TV network to film Big Brother. Keep in mind they used to film in a dream worldjust saying the standards low. Okay, it's not right. The Big Brother, I hear your groans maybe another show Ninja Warrior right across the casino floor. The first person to jump over the Jewel of the Nile swing around a roulette wheel roll Snake Eyes crack open the vault and swim through a billion dollars of laundered money wins $50,000 The rest of the money goes to crown. I don't like that idea. I got more. We all know that James Packer and Mariah Carey are well and truly over. Maybe it's not too late to rewrite the divorce. So Mariah gets Barangaroo imagine Mariah Carey living alone in a giant tower for the next 30 years while the giant facade slowly decays one day and intrepid explorer wandering through the heat wasteland that was once Sydney machetes through the IV branches that have overtaken crowns revolving doors to find Moriah in rags sauntering the empty halls singing All I Want For Christmas Is You while she mimes eating a sumptuous feast off the empty plates in a deserted Nobu. You Yes, it is an excellent idea.Unknown Speaker  15:23  But it's not as good as money laundering.Lewis Hobba  15:27  Just like the crown should be allowed to launder money just like they do in Melbourne. I'm sick of Sydney being number two. Do you know that New South Wales isn't even the state with the most amount of poker machines in the world? Guess what number we are? Number two. You know number one is Nevada. First, the store wins the rugby league and now this crown casino simply must be allowed to operate in Sydney. I mean, they even let Western Australia have a crown casino that's a state where you hit a jackpot anytime you dig a hole. Sydney doesn't pick up its game soon. Soon. We'll have nothing I mean, we'll have one casino but what are we HobartUnknown Speaker  16:11  we've already lost the cruise ship business. Don't take away our culture.Lewis Hobba  16:18  We need a friendly place with a carpet that reminds you of a funky fruit funeral parlor with lighting that says What time is it? Who cares? And a car bag full of family wagons with the windows down just enough for the kids to breed?I hope personally I don't see the day when there's a real estate agent out the front of Barangaroo auctioning it off and if I do 2.2 billion is actually not a bad price for an apartment Sydney so I might invest. Thank you so much.Unknown Speaker  16:53  Fear is irrational.Lewis Hobba  16:56  Over the years governments in this country have declared war on many things. There was Howard's war on terror. There was Abbott's war on red tape. It was Gilbert's war on misogyny. And I sometimes like to guess who we'd be at war with if Mark Latham had won an election, maybe the moon and as wild as that would have been, it would still be less insane than the New South Wales war on music festivals. Yes, the Berejiklian blitzkrieg on fun rages ever on a Fed fast that never ends. If you notice this story, a bunch of music festivals in New South Wales have been forced to cancel because of new regulations. The government can now tell a festival how many police they're required to have, which they then need to hire off the government. In one case the festival cancelled and it was told one week out that it would have to hire an extra $200,000 worth of cops. And if you're thinking that telling people how much of a thing they are required by law to buy off you sounds like a good business model. You're right it is it is getting the tick of approval from Shark Tank. If you or I did it, it would be called racketeering, the most jaunty of crimes. It feels really strange to live in a place where it is a vote winner to attack festivals, festivals. In any other country. The word itself invokes a sense of community and fun and to wage a war against music. If you're writing an 80s film or rock opera, and you need a villain to do something, cartoonishly evilUnknown Speaker  18:48  they were in fun life.Lewis Hobba  18:55  If Gladys Berejiklian gets reelected on an anti music platform, then she might have noticed through a victory speech and a coke made of 101 Dalmatians. No one here cares. Not you then the trash out there. You guys are beautiful. And if you're listening at home, also beautiful. So apart from the festivals that have already been cancelled, like mountain sounds, and sci fi Arey a bunch of other festivals like laneway have announced they might have to cancel next year's festival because of these new regulatory regulations. Now in 15 years of doing laneway in Sydney, two people have had to go to hospital in 15 years. That's less people dying than a Sydney Theatre Company Matt Matt the hearts just give out when they say he got a wavy,Unknown Speaker  19:51  he's very good. He's electric.Lewis Hobba  19:57  And if you're a Gen X or Boomer thinking that the last The festival like sci fi carry doesn't really affect you. I would like to remind you of this famous poll. First, they came for sci fi. But I didn't speak out because they didn't like hardstyle trance. And then they came for laneway. And I didn't speak out because they didn't like fun in tight places. But then they came for Byron Bay blues and Roots Festival.Unknown Speaker  20:29  And it was too late because I didn't say anything. And now how I say vicar and lendableLewis Hobba  20:40  that's right even blues fest the one you people love has announced it might leave New South Wales. That's gonna decimate the slide guitar industry.And I don't expect music festivals to be everyone's number one voting issue. But New South Wales let a government tell them when they could and could not buy alcohol. It goes against everything I know about this country. At this point, the only thing I can think of that would get Sydneysiders actually angry is a war against F 45.Unknown Speaker  21:22  I don't know what to do.Lewis Hobba  21:25  What can I do? Can I repeat music festivals in a way that boomers might understand? We know boomers think drugs are bad. I mean, they did it in the 60s Obviously. But now it's us, not them so it's bad. They know that we know that boomers think young people never talk to each other because we're always on our phones. Well music festivals solve all these problems. The receptions always really shit or the 4g is jammed with people using Instagram. We can't use our phones and after a few cats, we love to talk to each otherUnknown Speaker  22:00  Oh people the enemy of your enemy is your friend.Lewis Hobba  22:06  In New South Wales is right maybe we should just cancel thumb. Let's just stay in every weekend and once a year we'll spend all our savings to go to the domain to see whatever's left of Fleetwood Macbreak the child wants Sydney is completely given up we can segregate the entire population of Australian cities by age bracket at 20 years old, you'll be forced to move to Melbourne where you'll actually be allowed to have a good time at 30 You'll move to Brisbane to settle down get married, get sad, get divorced. You'll spend your 40s in Adelaide drinking wine and getting into cycling. And 50s The Gold Coast's for tanning and tax breaks. And then finally you'll turn 60 and you'll be ready for Sydney retirement village with no young people and no music, just cops in Messina.Italy, Florida, humid and full of people you wish would die but won't. And when all was said to you that set it and centenarians buck, I knew I shouldn't have written that word down. It's hard to say with no teeth you'll get there eventually. And when all was said to generis commemorate the day they won the fun war, they won't have a minute silence. They'll have a lifetime of it. A rational view the UK is now being run run by Boris Johnson. The human personification of the word whoopsie. The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. But I reckon if you asked anyone over 50 how they were feeling this week, they'd say they felt better than they felt in years, kind of like how they felt when they bought their third investment property. And that because in all this madness, there's been one little beacon of Boomer light, a warm safety blanket to wrap yourselves in one you TOPIK island in a fraud ocean of troubles. The return of CJ Yes, it isn't just Victoria that's legalized assisted dying now. Now the entire country can lay back and slowly watched the life drain from our eyes. As the biggest ABC drama of the late 90s has been directly in our homes like wistful memories, Xanax for all Are Australians the return of sea change is like getting back your franking credits you didn't need it a bit it's nice I should say quickly for anyone here under 30 see change was Round the Twist for adults I never saw sea change myself. But I got the gist from hearing my parents talk about it. It's about a high flying lawyer who leaves the sea to move to the coast and apparently diver Dan quite the dish. According to my mother, yes, Sigrid Thornton and the gang from pill they are back on your TV. It's a great day for the generation who still say channel two here's a man in the third rowUnknown Speaker  25:47  who gave you the finger little fingerDan Ilic  25:51  if you went to his Facebook page he's probably friends with the APC thank youLewis Hobba  25:55  it's the ABC his family and that's it doesn't know how to use Facebook.Unknown Speaker  26:00  He doesn't do FacebookLewis Hobba  26:02  sometimes stereotypes exist for a reason the ABC is doing its absolute best to give the boomers what they want on a they brought back countdown for New Year's Eve you love that. Did you count down? They keep bringing back Sphinx and specs because you think Adam Hills is nice. But they were gateway drugs. Nothing tickles and old man's wall not wallet like the ageless visa is your secret Thornton. And here's the kicker the aunties most valuable asset after Barry Cassidy's frown lines isn't even on the ABC anymore. While the AFP were writing us for the Afghan files channel line was rummaging around and stealing seachange it's one of the only shows that Australian TV with no known sexual predators I mean, thank God we let channel seven take doctor blake mysteriesUnknown Speaker  27:04  good luck to them.Lewis Hobba  27:06  But St. James selling out that hurts. There's nothing worse than seeing something leave the integrity of the ABC to chase meaningless cashisn't that right Ray Martin? Don't worry Ray, four corners really went downhill after you left.Unknown Speaker  27:36  irrational fears.Lewis Hobba  27:40  The reason I think just to wrap it all up, that satirists and look I'd say satirist, and comedians, and I'm referring to us, and you might be like, I don't even think of myself as the senators. I mostly ask people where they've been stuck on radio, you know, out there doing the good stuff. I'm not, I'm not John Oliver, I'm an idiot. So just accept that I'm going to use that term broadly. And let's roll let's move past it so we can all pay. But the reason I think that satirists are the new journalists is simple. We can't exist without journalists, like 100% of jokes written by political comedians get written because they read a story in the news and the news is written by journalists, like we're lazy. We're too lazy to do it. And to show how lazy we are. For the next little while. I'm just going to make the same point over and over again, using slightly different metaphors. satirise aren't disrupting journalism were leeching off it were a pilot fish attached to a shark, where the cackling hyenas picking it the bones of politicians left behind by lions, if journalists are a majestic giraffe, using its height to scan for danger way or a silly bird that lands are forced to look wherever the giraffeis bull. Canadians are the last person in the human centipede. Just taking the research already digested and shut out by reporters and editors eating it up and then shooting it out again in a slightly different way. It's still shit. But our shit was shot by a human centipede. And that's gonna get clicks.Unknown Speaker  29:36  Like journalists haveLewis Hobba  29:37  to do a lot of stuff that is important and boring. Comedians want to do stuff that is frivolous and exciting. Like Can anyone here be bothered learning what an interest rate is? Like that? No, there's no such thing as a financial comedian. It would be cruel to teach us about money, only for us to learn. We'll never get it. I like the grunt work of political journalism is getting things on the record like that's, that's the grunt stuff. That's the important stuff, like going to boring press conferences, making boring calls, getting people to say stuff. Like in 2008, when a journalist got Scott Morrison on the record saying that he was in favor of a government supporting people buying houses with a housing equity scheme, that was boring in 2008. And in 2017, when he said it again, and that he still supported the idea. It was boring then. But in 2022, when he attacks labor for the exact same idea, it's suddenly become something, write something that gets the mounds of the little human centipede very excited. But good things take time, even hypocrisy, and time is something that journalists can afford to have. And look, I am not deifying journalists. They're normal people. And in fact, they're worse than normal people. Because their job is to be annoying, ideally, to people in power that comedians or people pleasers. Applauses are nourishment. Like it's the base of our food pyramid. And so I don't think comedians are incapable of doing the work of journalists. But we're not financially motivated to piss people off like, we get paid by the ticket. So I think journalists have an employer and an employer who pays them more, the better they are at annoying people. It's the opposite of what comedians do. Like I would say the ABC has at times paid comedians to be annoying, and not in the way they pay me to be annoying, which is just by accident. But it's more of a sort of deliberate choice to pay comedians to be annoying on shows like Chase or to nightly which you talked about already. Very few people in comedy choose to make audiences happy by annoying powerful people on a freelance basis. It's just not a smart move. And so my point is really, that you you can't have political satire without journalists, but you can very easily have journalism, without satirists, because we're not going to do the research. And you know what? Sometimes you just need someone to look down the barrel of a camera and say Princess Diana is deadand you need to notify that out with damn lady diedthat's some topical stuff.Talk orders is run by comedians, it would be the Comedy Central Roast. If 60 minutes was one run by comedians in it go for 50 minutes and we charge for the fallout. If current affair was run by comedians, it'd be a bit better. Like comedians aren't useless. I mean, we're not as bad as opinion writers.But mostly we're just putting a shiny new package on an existing product and selling it is something new, and that is why we often end up selling it for free.Unknown Speaker  33:08  Emotional fear, okay, Louis, as an anemic ABC employee. What's your take on this?Lewis Hobba  33:17  My take is the one that keeps me employed Tony so that I can afford to feed my feeble family all the soy lattes their weak bones need what's that? What are your Peter Dutton is very handsome. Manly, yet has soft and kind eyes that make you melt when you catch their gaze. His hair is thick, like a young Ray Martins. He is benevolent yet firm like a hammer, a hammer for justice and fairness. He is building a safer, cleaner, brighter Australia and Australia that makes you go wow, Australia is so safe and clean and bright. Loving Peter Dutton is like an Australian journalist interviewing Steve Bannon. You know it's wrong, but you just can't help yourself. irrational fear. I want to talk not about the climate but about the vaccines and other upbeat topic who's All right, yeah,Unknown Speaker  34:23  one more applauseLewis Hobba  34:28  All right. All right. I don't know if you've heard but the COVID vaccine rollout is going very badly. Right now Scott Morrison couldn't organize a syringe on the set of Trainspotting. By the end of March, he planned to have 4 million people vaccinated and they just missed that target by 3.4 million. This week, the government revealed it hadn't vaccinated aged care workers and and they didn't even know how many aged care residents had started getting shots. Has anyone had been vaccinated? All right, just by asking that question, I know more than the government about the COVID vaccine rollout. But in times of crisis, I think it's very important to take the government's lead, and instead of looking at what we can do start looking at who we can blame. Let's start with the labor leaders. We all know Dan Andrews is crawling out of his hospital bed at night, throwing away his fake back brace and creeping out to sprinkled COVID under the beds of Melbourne's children. The media are obviously also to blame. Health Minister Greg Hunt got very angry at the media for saying that older people who were nervous about getting the AstraZeneca vaccine could wait until the Pfizer arrived. He said the media were promoting vaccine hesitancy the media were directly quoting Greg Hunt. And that really pissed off Greg Hunt, who is a Greg HuntThe government is also very angry at boomers who have developed this vaccine hesitancy for those following at home. Yes, this is the same vaccine hesitancy the government refused to stop Craig Kelly doing for Craig Kelly fans,Unknown Speaker  36:31  what the fuck? Weird salienceDan Ilic  36:36  B Q and on Viber.Lewis Hobba  36:39  Oh, interesting. Okay, let's explore that as we go on. Wow, fuck, I didn't say I've never met somebody like Craig Kelly. It's so crazy. But actually, I think that the vaccine hesitancy problem is actually quite easy to fix because boomers stopped trusting vaccines because they believe anything they read on Facebook. So what I have done is I've prepared some Boomer friendly messaging that you can write on your own Facebook wall at any time to make boomers get their second job quicker than their second home. Yeah, that's right. I know what you own. What else are you gonna take away from me? Come on. All right, here we go. Here's some things you can write on your Facebook wall, to get Boomers to take the vaccine. Tell them the vaccine doesn't insert a microchip. It inserts an audio book about Graham Kennedy written by Peter Fitz Simon. A vaccine is just an extra hot coffee. Tell them it's an iPad. Tell them it's a painting by an indigenous artist. Tell them it's a funny detail. Tell them the vaccine is a mountain by telling them the vaccine is a low res family photo. Tell them it's a podcast with Annabelle crab. Tell them the vaccine would like to hear a story about an old neighbor who recently died. Tell them the vaccine agrees that the two years of high interest rates in the early 90s was the greatest hardship generated ever face. Tell him it's a BBC drama. Tell him it'll make Netflix easy to use.Unknown Speaker  38:31  Tell them it's a carport.Lewis Hobba  38:35  Tell him it's a second fridge. Tell them it doesn't use American words like diaper and store. It uses Australian words like nappy and shop.Now, we all know that would 100% get the vaccine rollout back on track. But weirdly, that is not the approach our prime minister has taken. No, you might have heard this news yesterday. He's calling in the army. Yeah, yesterday he announced in one of his trademark announcements that the new head of the National Vaccine task force would be Lieutenant General John Frewin. If caught I don't know who he is either, but he's a Lieutenant General. Head of the army. If calling in the army to fix his problems, sounds extreme. Keep in mind, Scott Morrison loves to play with his army men. When he was the Minister for border protection. He called in the army to stop the boats. Then once the boat once the army had done that, he made himself a little boat shaped trophy, saying I stopped the boats. I don't know if anyone in the army got a trophy. They may have got a small participation boat. Personally May I love the idea of getting the military to run a vaccination campaign. It's intimidating but fun I can never quite get a read on what's going on. Big defense strategy. Craig Kelly not okay with military on the fence boobers you came around Applause We all love. I stick with me, so stick with us. I wasn't begging but thankDan Ilic  40:19  you. Will you be closing with GosmanLewis Hobba  40:24  Bacchus for coming. So all right. Here we go Now stick with me on this army thing okay because I actually think it's a really good idea right? I would love to see people's faces when they look up to see Ben Robert Smith walking through the streets threatening to kick anyone who won't get the vaccine up the US with a prosthetic leg he's carrying for some reason. All right. I knew when I asked you to stick with me that I would be losing you and I don't care. What's up with the Army get the Air Force in bold Odyssey fighter jets dropping syringes into aged care facilities. I want to say retired veterans pull their old rifles out of the closet, toss away their bayonets affixed the FISA, Pfizer and go back on the road.Unknown Speaker  41:19  We'll find the anti Vax is on the beaches of Byron Bay. We shall defend our Island whatever the cost may be, and then we'll blame the cost on Kevin Rudd Oh.Lewis Hobba  41:35  Look, I get why Scotty calls up defense Anytime he's on the defensive. People trust the army, and they're already on the payroll. But I really think there's another group on the payroll who are being criminally overlooked when it comes to helping the vaccine rollout. These people live in Canberra in a building paid for by taxpayers. They're getting taxpayer funded training every day. I'm talking about the Australian Institute of Sport. Now. The prime minister said that the vaccine rollout wasn't a race Well, right now we have hundreds of perfectly trained athletes for an Olympics, that probably won't happen. So let's put them to work and make it a race. First of all, no one knows more about experimental drug treatments thatUnknown Speaker  42:20  want toLewis Hobba  42:24  test the vaccines on them. They put things in their bodies that would stop once the teen doctors have a locally produced vaccine that prevents COVID and is also untraceable by the anti doping authority. We store them in the coolroom used to acclimatized our winter Olympians. Then we're on to the AIA s as gold metal standard vaccine logistics work. This is quite a plan. So come on the journey alright. An Australian weightlifter lifts boxes of vaccines off the shelves then carries them to a javelin thrower who hurls individual vaccines across the warehouse. Our four by 100 meter medley relay team will swim vaccines across the state of Tasmania, while the rest will travel in short shorts of marathon runners as they jump off to remote corners of regional Australia. The syringes passed like a relay baton from the marathon runners to the power walkers if they encounter any antivaxxers over high jumper will first be flop over them gracefully. Each regional Victorian center will contain PPE from the fencing team, and one the Greco Roman wrestler. Their job is to pin down vaccine hesitant boomers while our welterweight boxers strap on latex gloves. And instead of giving a left jab to the face, given an Australian or right jab in the using the power of the AISI predicts we can have the nation fully vaccinated by the end of the week. Then all we need is to get Nikki registered to sing a closing ceremony and get all the athletes back to Canberra for an athlete village level fuckathon. If Scott Morrison needs any more convincing, I promise when that's all over, and everyone agrees that athletes have done their job perfectly. He can get it get a little gold medal that says he did it all himself a rational fear. Okay, it's very nice to be here. Thank you so much. 10 years of this podcast, building up to this moment, a huge venue, a beautiful crowd who knows everything we've done. I think we can all agree this is the biggest event in the world this weekend. Thank you so much. I actually looked up what the 10 year anniversary is. its 13th anniversary, Tin. Tin. A good honest metal, but it's not platinum is it? Nah, it's Nope. Platinum Jubilee is it. I spent the last 10 years of this podcast complaining about how old people are ruining everything. And then who comes along to ruin our anniversary?Unknown Speaker  45:10  The oldest person in the world?Unknown Speaker  45:15  Her Royal Highness the Queen of England. This podcast anniversary would have been the biggest game in town. We would have sold out the concert hall or the SCG. But no, everyone's at home. Watching every minute of the Platinum Jubilee.Lewis Hobba  45:34  Did you say she's the queen?Unknown Speaker  45:38  Oh, including the queen. We'll get we'll get there. Don't get ahead of me one punch line that was that was all that was it.Dan Ilic  45:54  Anyone can start a comedy podcastLewis Hobba  45:57  that's a joke as well.Unknown Speaker  45:58  The fuck out. Everyone shut the fuck IUnknown Speaker  46:07  only got three jokes and two of them ago is one more fucking thing.Unknown Speaker  46:14  I will burn this place to the fucking grid now.Lewis Hobba  46:19  I gotta talk about that. Not after the last podcast.Unknown Speaker  46:23  I'd say the credit to be riding our parade for we didn't even get a paradeLewis Hobba  46:33  the Queen's getting four four parades. She didn't go to the first one. Thanks a lot. The first parade was on Friday. She didn't even go she wasn't feeling up to it. She said. And look, I get it. She's very old. But no one was asking you to do a fucking flip. standing wave. Anyone can do it. Right. Her second event was at the Buckingham Palace. Very nice to her isn't it? She gets a palace what do we get a house? But can I just take a moment to say the staff here? The Sydney Opera House. They're incredible. Thank you so much. Yeah, no, that's true. I'd say hats off to them. But they don't get hats. No Do they know? Hats are only for the queen star. Only the Queen's people get hats. Big hats too. That's as high as the eye can seeUnknown Speaker  47:39  you've never wonLewis Hobba  47:42  a fucking picture of the hat I swear to fucking christ diaper house this fucking clothesUnknown Speaker  47:50  Oh my I wore a suit and I know you don't know that's unusual but it isDan Ilic  47:55  Dan when you sack Louis after this Yeah,Unknown Speaker  48:00  well you could bucket habit Good luck to you. Complete the bucket MichaelUnknown Speaker  48:03  go down.Unknown Speaker  48:04  They'll count the jokes. Unbelievable up for me thanks a lot. Anyway, we had spit before we got and now my next video about hacks so we gotta get back toUnknown Speaker  48:24  Oh my god. Thanks a lot Australian media. Not one article all week about the hats of these good Australian podcastersUnknown Speaker  48:32  might put on your hat.Unknown Speaker  48:35  Put on your hat Ma. Oh, girl Gray. Thank you. Oh, now everyone guessUnknown Speaker  48:46  why do people get so excited when the Queen wears a hat? Do they know she owns a crown? That's the best kind ofUnknown Speaker  48:58  anytime she wears the regular hat. It should be a huge disappointment. The hat is the understudy of the crown.Unknown Speaker  49:09  A queen and a hatUnknown Speaker  49:15  it's like Lewis Hamilton driving the formula wanted a Kia Sorento.Unknown Speaker  49:20  It's now when I came to say put on the crown your big scroteLewis Hobba  49:30  I'm gonna fix it and then I'm gonna fucking fix you you have a radio show is that right? Just like this constantly. Is very aggressive.Sami Shah  49:44  GM to the opera house to drum up Pakistani parents. You're gonna find the comedy really good.Lewis Hobba  49:52  Sammy sounds like Tate's also my 10 year celebration come along.Unknown Speaker  49:58  This is my moment.Lewis Hobba  50:08  Now, some of you might think that the Queen deserves a visit as the biggest celebration than our podcast. You might think she's earned a little Jubilee after 70 years on the throne. Oil, you're wrong. I think we've done a lot more than the Queen, doing a mildly successful podcast for 10 years. On and Off is hard work. Very good one if you heard it. If starting a podcast was easy, everyone would do it.Unknown Speaker  50:39  Again. All right from now on. All right, fresh jokes.Dan Ilic  50:45  I can't wait for this last joke.Lewis Hobba  50:49  The closest thing that Queen gets to doing a podcast is her royal Christmas message. And she does one of those per year. That's 70 episodes over 70 years. I mean, we've done over 100 we're crushing her. The Queen get throw herself a party when she knows what it's like to beg Patreon subscribers for $1 a month. I'll throw her a jubilee myself. If she does a Christmas message brought to you by MailChimp. The royal family hasn't done one true crime podcast and they have done so many true crime. This is true right? 18 months ago Spotify gave Prince Harry and Megan Markel $30 million to make a podcast. Did you know that $30 million to make their new podcast? Do you know how many episodes they've made? This is true in the last 18 months since I got that $30 million. One. One episode of one podcast for $30 million. Louis Yes. SoSami Shah  51:54  while you're fact checking so disrupt you. The Queen did 69 messages of Christmas because she missed one year 1969 She missed it because she was sick rightUnknown Speaker  52:15  now that's fine. That joke wasn't structural integrity, but later that won't ruin a call back in three minutes. Good go. Oh, fuck me. Good guy,Lewis Hobba  52:37  you know, for me to make $30 million doing this podcast based on how much money I'm getting paid to diet. I would have to do this podcast for over every week for over 2000 years. That's true. That means I would be doing it from now to the very first Christmas when Jesus was born. But no, noUnknown Speaker  53:00  give the fucking quatre paradeLewis Hobba  53:10  Am I losing you?Unknown Speaker  53:12  I don't fucking close the doors none of you this is gonna be the fucking Nutcracker. No intermissionUnknown Speaker  53:30  this is gonna be the August performance in OperaUnknown Speaker  53:32  House history. Mozart's fifth sixth seventh fucking Louis's firstLewis Hobba  53:47  with you and the queen. No, I look. I have some good news. I have some good news. Yes, thank you indeed. If you're sick of being upstaged by the Queen like I am. The good news is she could die any second. That's not the good news. That's not the good news. I promise. She's She might be pointless, but she is a person. I hope she lives a long and happy life surrounded by all her family, even the pedophiles Now, the good news this week is that you might have seen our new government announced that there is a new Assistant Minister for the Republic. Could you say this? This is meant for the Republic? No, I think that's exciting. But I don't want you to think I'm a big Republic guy. Right. In my opinion or monetarists and Republicans? They're all as boring as each other. Right? They're all just big fucking weirdos. Yeah, big Whoo. I don't like a couple of crooked Republicans or monikers let's find out which. Like I imagine all monarchists sit in big brown leather chairs and a router waders, but also I think being a Republican in Australia. It's like demanding everyone get their appendix removed. Like it's a lot of effort to get rid of something that's just sitting They're like, who really cares if it's in or out? And that's me saying that after the last five minutes I don't even fucking care. You know, I don't need Australia to pretty common Republic, I just need attention. That's really what it boils down to. Right? But here's some more good news, right? Here's some more good news. If you promise to come back to our 20 year anniversary, there will be no Jubilee stealing our spotlight that's in 10 years. Do you know why? No ruler has ever made it past the Platinum Jubilee. They literally haven't invented the next Jubilee. It's never been done. That means that the Queen has clocked monarchy. The next celebration that the monarchy has a word for is the centenary and to make that she'd need to live for another 30 odd years. And that seems pretty unlikely. The only person who looks like the queen who might live for 30 more years is Keith Richards. Now I don't want the Queen to die. I don't but I will say this. When we come back to the Sydney Opera House in 2037. To celebrate our 25 year anniversary, they'd better be a fucking parade. And here's to our 10th anniversary. Thank you so much.Dan Ilic  56:23  So oh my god, Louis. I mean, how are you feeling after listening to you rant for 50 minutes, I feel calmLewis Hobba  56:29  down. I feel calm. I feel relaxed. It really I really got it out of my system. I think anyone listening to the smooth, calm relaxed sounds of that 50 minutes. Well, it was basically a meditation tape. That was my audition for calm the app.Dan Ilic  56:46  Big thank you to our Patreon members and rode mics for the road gear and also take a route with whatever yaki tideline and we'll see you next week. Oh, I've never seen you like this your change man.Lewis Hobba  56:59  I love hearing myself A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREEvery now and then on the A Rational Fear Podcast feed we have a long-form conversation about climate change with climate leaders from all walks of life.We call them — The Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation.On this episode of GMPOOG: Dan Ilic hosts a conversation with journalist Nick Bryant — Media watchers in Australia would certainly know Nick's work from the BBC and of course twitter.  He's often got one of the clearest eyes on Australian and global politics.Nick is doing a special episode of his podcast, Journo, with journalists who cover climate, so he came on ARF's Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation to chat about it.You can listen to the Journo Podcast here: https://jninstitute.org/education/journo-podcast/On this episode we talk about News Corp's supposed move to embracing climate change, how Pasifika journalists see themselves, and also great yarns about Greta Thunberg and UN Secretary-General António Guterres.🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/👕 BUY OUR MERCH HERE  Dan Ilic  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation. Daniel, it's with you here for another episode of The Greatest more podcasts of our generation on the irrational fear feed. If you haven't heard the gumboots before, it's largely conversations about climate change with Climate Leaders. Good and bad. We'll be back with the regular irrational fears show probably I reckon July maybe August, I'm taking a few weeks off because I am freaking exhausted after the election. I need to recharge. Think about this show. Think about how to make it better for the future. And all that stuff. You have any ideas hit me up on Twitter or email Dan at irrational fear.com We'd love to hear from you. DespiteRobbie McGreggor  0:41  global warming, or rational fear, he's adding a little more heart here with long form discussions with Climate Leaders. Good.Unknown Speaker  0:53  This is called Don't be great. Heat waves and droughts. greatest mass extinction moral when facing a manmade disaster, podcast, climate criminals,Robbie McGreggor  1:07  Jenner raishin.Unknown Speaker  1:09  All of this with global warming and a lot of it's a hoaxRobbie McGreggor  1:13  book, right. That's my role podcast about generation.Unknown Speaker  1:17  For short,Dan Ilic  1:18  many folks who listen to the podcast, you'd be familiar with the works of our next guest, Nick Bryant, BBC senior correspondent to Australia, South Asia, in Washington in New York. One thing you may not know about him is he holds a doctorate in American politics from Oxford. Like Nick has also been seconded by the Judith Nielsen Institute for journalism and ideas to host journalists, a podcast about journalism, those who dabble in it. My first question to Nick is have you ever been on a plane when they call for a doctor? Dr. Nick, Brian.Nick Bryant  1:46  I've always yearned for that moment. And to go out the front and to say, you know, what, what do you want to know about American history? But alas,Dan Ilic  1:54  let me talk to you about gerrymandering.Nick Bryant  1:56  Exactly. I could talk you through the sort of checks and balances of the US Constitution. But I don't think that would particularly help as this guy's of chokey God is, you know, first class mail. No, I haven't done that. But it's very sweetly mentioned the doctor. I mean, I've I've started deploying it for the first time in what 30 years, I've, I've left the BBC now and you've doneDan Ilic  2:16  the work. So you know, you've got to use those Doctor titles whenever you can. Like,Nick Bryant  2:21  I've hooked up with Sydney University, actually, where that kind of title carers a bit of clout, you know, so I have actually started using it again. But yeah, it still feels very odd when anybody calls me up to Brian, I gotta look around. There must be somebody else.Dan Ilic  2:36  Yeah. Well, I do think that American politics is so diseased that they could use your help. Brian,Nick Bryant  2:42  that is a great way of putting it. But I think, you know, is beyond the help of a physician at the moment, America, I think it is such a sickly state. Terminal, maybe it's too strong. But yeah, it's certainly got problems. I think it's terminal in terms of United States of America as a cohesive country right now. I think we're talking about to Americans, and, you know, across the board, I think you're going to, you know, the end of Roe versus Wade will mean there's an America where you can legally get an abortion as America where you can't get an abortion, there's going to be an America where you're more prone to get a pandemic, suffer from a pandemic, like COVID, as eras of America, to Americans is going to play out in so many different aspects of American life.Dan Ilic  3:24  Yeah. Anyway, let's talk about something that is a little bit more existential for the entire globe. You have been doing some reporting recently on people who have been doing reporting on climate this is, this is great. This is our wheelhouse here at irrational fear, Nick, as you may know, and so tell us, you have a bit of a strange climate journey in your own right. As a journalist, one ofNick Bryant  3:46  the things I do now is present a podcast called Gerardo and we look at sort of the biggest news of the day. And one of the things we decided to look at was was climate change.Dan Ilic  3:54  Why did you do that? Because the major parties in the last election totally forgot to mention anything about climate so strange that you would do thatNick Bryant  4:00  either. That's the reason we did it is to make sure that people remembered Hey, there's a planet under threat here. We need to be talking about this a lot more in the media. And of course, one of the areas. One of the surprising developments since I've come back to Australia is the greening of the of the Murdoch tabloids. So we we talked about a lot of things in this this podcast, and maybe we can talk about, you know, the some of the broader issues later on. But we started with this extraordinary turnaround in the run up to the Glasgow Climate Change Conference cop 26. Just before Christmas, we woke up that day and the Sydney Daily Telegraph, it turned green, talking about breeding cattle for Australia and the possibilities of Australia becoming this sort of renewable powerhouse.Dan Ilic  4:45  We had Joe Hildebrand on our podcast when that whole happened. We lost about 20 Patreon subscribers.Nick Bryant  4:53  Right What what Joe was part of this wraparound Well, exactly. Joe wrote a wrote a column they had the 16 paid wraparound it wasn't only in Sydney in The Daily Telegraph, it was the Tiser in in Adelaide for Adelaide, South Australia. That's the advertiser down in Adelaide, the Courier Mail, which is in Brisbane, the was it the Herald Sunday in America, Melbourne. I mean, all of the Murdoch tabloid came together. Agreed.Dan Ilic  5:18  It was a great six weeks, Nick, it was a great six weeks of climate change journalist.Nick Bryant  5:23  Yeah, we were fascinated with how that came about. I mean, you know, these are titles traditionally that that have been associated with climate change skepticism that are really had a go at things like the carbon tax, they've run headlines like the zombie carbon tax, and all this kind of stuff. And we were absolutely fascinated with how that turnaround had happened.Dan Ilic  5:40  Let's have a listen of from Ben English, the editor of the Daily Telegraph,Unknown Speaker  5:44  the issue of climate change had never been tackled from a disinterested objective, and a straightforward journalistic investigative approach, we felt that a lot of the journalism had actually veered into activism. And there'd been a lack of curiosity about a lot of the data that have been presented, we felt that it had been written from a viewpoint that we will characterize as more elite. And I think that's why we felt that it hadn't really resonated with our readers that it had been from a lofty height and element of guilt and shame around it all. We felt it was an opportunity to actually be right at the heart of the conversation, but do it from a viewpoint of everyday Australians. Now,Dan Ilic  6:22  Nick, I'd look at some of those wraparounds at the time, and you know, who was writing some of those articles? Who, Gina Reinhardt? Twiggy Forrest, would you call them lofty and elite, the richest woman in Australia? Would you recall her? Luffy lit. And the other thing about Ben English is quite there's like, never up until September 2021. Has any journalists covered climate change at a disinterested, objective and straightforward manner? Wow, thank God, thank God for being English and The Daily Telegraph to finally come to the party to tell us what was really happening with climate change.Nick Bryant  6:54  I look down at that boat leapt out at me as well. But we were just fascinated with how this turnaround came about how they decided they would attend the partyDan Ilic  7:05  six six specials in the lead up to COP is not a turn around, though. It's it's like a marketing spin for the 2050 program that Scott Morrison took to the to cop like it's such a weird, such a weird thing to kind of looking back at in retrospect. Now, that happened last year, and we haven't seen anything about climate from The Daily Telegraph since then.Nick Bryant  7:25  Well, that's something you need to take up with Ben English. And those are questions. Those are questions that that we put to him. The you know, what I think was interesting about it, talking about the sort of longer term ramifications of it. I mean, some people thought, you know, is this Rupert Murdoch and Lachlan Murdoch telling these guys to do this and telling these these editors to do this, or is this something that is or more organic and bottom up rather than top down? And, you know, very clearly bad English said, you know, wasn't a murder initiative. You know, like, they say, they've got autonomy, they can do what they want. And they decided they were going to do this, like, I saw a lot of money heading into the sort of new energy space. They follow that money that he said, all that kind of thing. And what it didn't do, Dan, as you know, is is bring about a bigger kind of, you know, come to Jesus moment, if that's indeed what it was. And I mean, I know you're skeptical about that. And me too, what it didn't do was signify something broader within the Murdoch Empire, which was this, you know, were we going to see a change in the Wall Street Journal, were we going to see a change of Fox News? Obviously, that just hasn't happened either.Dan Ilic  8:29  Do you think this is News Corp trying to keep the coalition in power by making the move on climate in a meaningful way?Nick Bryant  8:37  Oh, there's a lot of talk that the politics behind it was to give them cover before Glasgow wasn't there's aDan Ilic  8:44  lot of talk behind it that the six issues of The Daily Telegraph that came out, up until the six weeks of cup.Nick Bryant  8:51  Yeah, and the idea of being you know, you make the deal easier between the Nationals when you're trying to get to that emissions target. I think one thing it might have done is help labor neutralize the issue. So much of Labour's political strategy ahead of the federal election was obviously, to neutralize climate changes. And this year, I remember talking to Anthony Albanese this Sunday, maybe it was the week after his. He released his climate change policy. You remember he did it a Friday afternoon a classic sort of bury the news strategy. And that's right. He had a soft launch of his campaign, just two days after that. And I remember talking to his aides just before that launch, and, and they were just delighted with have, you know, little attention was being paid. I think I think the announcement made the kind of front page of The Daily Telegraph that morning but it was kind of it was right at you had to have almost a microscope to see it. And I remember sort of, they pointed me towards a pizza Archer pizza which in the Sydney Morning Herald that talks about Labour's Environment Policy not not so much as All target as a as a zero target as a no target. And I thought they maybe they wouldn't be that happy with that characterization. But they absolutely love that characterization. They love the fact that they, they'd launched this climate change policy, and it really hadn't made any kind of tabloid splash. And maybe, you know, that change ofDan Ilic  10:21  attitude for added to have the telegraph? Yeah, ifNick Bryant  10:23  it was meaningful. I mean, one thing it did do, seemingly, is to neutralize the issue of climate change. But I mean, you had you had an election, obviously, where it was hardly discussed, which is, you know, extraordinary. I think, you know, if you're, if you're going to be looking back on the federal election in 2022, and in 100 years time, and climate change doesn't even really feature. You know, I think people are going to be thinking about what was going on.Dan Ilic  10:47  Just absolutely astonishing that, you know, the media kind of skipped over climate change a lot with this election, and the major parties weren't talking about it at all. Yet. The election result is all about climate, you had these climate independents, pretty much dismantle the Liberal Party, you had these greens on the rise. The one thing that everyone wasn't talking about was the actual clincher for this election. Yeah, INick Bryant  11:10  think that's absolutely fascinating. And it's a brilliant point, you know, this will be regarded as the climate change election, but it wasn't the Climate Change Campaign. from it. I thought that was fascinating. I mean, the Guardian did some quite interesting research, I think hooking up with a university, I think it was one of the ones in Melbourne, they looked at the discrepancy between the questions that were being asked on the campaign trail, and the sort of questions that were really in the uppermost in people's minds, actually, cost of living was number one, on both. But climate change, there was a discrepancy, you know, it was far higher in the minds of voters than it was in the minds of journalists, when they're asking those questions. Yeah, look, it was a really small ball campaign, I think, you know, I think journalists need to have a bit of a think about how they covered it, to be honest, because I think the the gotcha line of questioning, which rarely went into climate change, did it, it was more on the kind of it spoke about the financialization of politics in Australia, and how, you know, obsessively people focus on economic indices often rather than mental health indices, or environmental indices, or that kind of thing. You know, I think that media probably does need to have a bit of a rethink about how habit covers these campaigns, because those kind of big issues just weren't given the airing that they should have been given.Dan Ilic  12:26  The perfect metaphor was I think, elbow second big stuff up on the campaign trail when he couldn't remember the NDIS policy. You know, that, you know, the, the forum for that press conference where they were at that at that press conference? No, where were they? They were at the Smart Energy Council.Alex Dyson  12:44  prints, there are this Smart Energy Council Expo Albo had just jumped out of an electric semi trailer. And we're walking around the conference floor cut, like surrounded by batteries and solar panels and wind farms, right. And the thing that the journalist asked about with his NDIS policy that he didn't know the answer to and had to get a press release to read off, that is the perfect, it's a perfect summation of where this where this, this media pack was at. You're at an you're at a green tech conference, not asking anything about green tech, but trying to catch the opposition leader off off track on something other other than green tech.Nick Bryant  13:21  Dan, it's a brilliant metaphor. I'm going to squirrel that away and use it sometime in the future, because I think it's absolutely perfect. You're right. I was actually with Alba the next day. I was with him. He went to a homeless shelter. I don't sorry, a place that was a food bank. That was that was giving people food for people that were struggling as largely a result of COVID. You know, they've seen people they've never seen before. And again, the questioning really wasn't about that. What was what happened was a rerun of the NDIS. Gotcha for the day before. So we had a cut a two day gotcha, where the reporter who asked the NDIS question kept asking it the day later. Yeah, it was kind of nuts. I think what I saw for this time, though, Dan, and I, you know, I've rarely seen this in Britain. I've seen it a lot in America, journalists getting booed, especially in Trump rallies and things like that. Yeah, I'm kind of used to that. But it's, it came as a surprise in Australia. I spent a day with Morrison and I spent a day with Albanese. And these days did not I mean, you know, they put on these kind of dreadful photo ops, you know, they, they were their high visibility jackets, you know, it looks like it's sort of transcontinental costume party. And, you know, then there's this half hour that, you know, all the journalists sign themselves up for they get to ask the questions now. My David Morrison, Mia with elbow. Those press conferences, both ended up with the journalist being heckled by members of the public, who just thought their questioning was was going too far. It was turning the election into a game a trivial pursuit. It was, you know, not treating. And it was really interesting. And, you know, what, what really worries me? I mean, talking sort of big picture is this disconnect between the public and the press now and you're seeing it across the world? You know, misinformation is the kind of benefit free of this breakdown in trust. And it really worries me. And, you know, we need to raise our game, whether it's political coverage, or whether it's climate change coverage. I mean, I just think that is an obvious thing that we all need to do as journalists, one of the things I think we should do as climate change journalists, you know, how are our kids going to look at our coverage, and when they grew up, how future generations I think that should be the test of our, our climate change coverage. And I think, you know, frankly, most of most of us are found and wanting on that front.Dan Ilic  15:32  Yeah, I mean, I'm Ben English isn't I mean, he's obviously making great strides by alerting Tim Blair and Andrew bolt and Peter cradling set the climate coverage for The Daily Telegraph by saying it's not real.Nick Bryant  15:43  I mean, I'll tell you one thing I did get to do in New York, which was really interesting. I got to cover the Greta tunberg speech at the United Nations. Remember when she sort of stood there and just harangue the delegates? How dare you? It was just this electrifying moment. I mean, you know, a lot of the speeches at the United Nations are known for how long they went on. I think Fidel Castro used to speak for about three days. Greta Thunberg, gave this extraordinary speech. And I mentioned it, not only because it's an extraordinary historical moment, I got to interview a couple of days before, oh, how amazing. That was fascinating. And partly because they told me beforehand, rather, doesn't do small talk,which for a prayer is kind of paralyzing.Dan Ilic  16:26  What was your opening line now? Well, INick Bryant  16:28  said to her handlers, and Greta tunberg, is part of a very sophisticated media operation there. And it's really interesting to see her at the heart of this kind of group that uses her as this, I mean, gives her this platform and also understands the value of what she has to say, and the power of the way she says it. I said to her look, you know, I'm a Brit. I mean, we just talk about the weather, surely, surely, she wants to talk about that. ButDan Ilic  16:53  Nick, weather is not climate.Nick Bryant  16:56  But I mentioned it, because it was the only time in my career, that my kids actually thought I had a worthwhile job. And I think that's interesting, because I thought, you know, Dad, you should be spending more time doing climate change. And, you know, my kids actually took part in the protest that she led through the streets of New York, you know, they, they took the day off school, or whatever, they went on strike. And, you know, they were there, and they were young kids, then I mean, they were kind of 10 and eight, I think, even nine and seven. Anyway, you know, it was that classic Daddy, what did you do in the war? You know, and I think that's a good question for journalists to ask themselves. When it comes to covering covering climate change?Dan Ilic  17:35  I think so I you know, I used to be a regular on insiders up until I put billboards in New York City making fun of climate change. And I got asked not to come on inside is because of that, like, because it was deemed that you know, that act turned me into something more than a different than a comedian and that I couldn't, I couldn't possibly go on inside as any more to make jokes about cartoons that have been written in the newspaper. So theyNick Bryant  17:59  had you on inside. It's in that segment where? Okay, right?Dan Ilic  18:04  I've done I've done that many times. So, but it was after that it was after I put a funny joke on myself in on a billboard in New York City, that I was deemed an activist and could no longer possibly, objectively make jokes about the cartoons that other cartoonists have done?Nick Bryant  18:21  Well, I think it's a really interesting question, because I do think that climate change journalism fits within the model of a great tradition of campaigning journalism. You know, we used to talk aboutDan Ilic  18:39  like the macro muckraking going way back, you know,Nick Bryant  18:43  we talk about the sort of heroic era of British newspapers when they sort of showed, you know, the drugs that cause flu minimized and and, you know, it's seen as great campaigning, journalism. And, you know, I think, for me, I think I don't see the reason why we shouldn't regard climate change as an issue where we should have great campaigning, journalism. And if journalists face the accusation that they are straying into kind of activism. Do you know what I think we can kind of, I think we can live with that. I think we can live with that. I think there are certain crises that require certainly an end to the kind of both sides tourism,Dan Ilic  19:29  it's hard to know is James Monroe, an activist is he like, when you when you say folks like for the like, of the strident news COVID. And on the insiders, those guys are just activists for a totally other thing?Nick Bryant  19:41  Yeah. And I think a lot of news organizations now sort of getting away from that guy on both sides or as a model. You know, the BBC, for years is sort of said the debate is over about the science. So we're not going to sort of we're not going to start our morning on the Today Show, which is the big radio show in Britain and everybody listens to with a debate Pitzer climate change activists against the climate change skeptic, we're just not bothered with that debates gone. We're moving on, we're gonna think about solutions. And I mean, maybe, maybe some would regard that as, as activism. But it's, it's just, you know, there's a truth bias there. It's not a kind of bias towards it is the truth bias. And I mean, I think that, you know, the truth bias is always the kind of key one that we should we should veer towards.Dan Ilic  20:27  It is of course, a global issue. And you've been speaking to people all over the world about how they cover it, including the Guardians Pacific editor from Samoa.Nick Bryant  20:37  Yeah, lunga breather, Cheryl Jackson, she is absolutely fantastic about this. I mean, I thought she was really interesting. I mean, first of all, climate change for her. It's a story that dominates the front page, the back page, and every page in between, you know, very little happens in Samoa, that doesn't involve climate change. And, you know, I was intrigued to speak to her about the challenge, you know, how do you keep telling the same story every every single day? You know, the conversation I had with her was really interesting, because she spoke about how patronizing she often thinks Western coverage of the Pacific Islands is, you know, theyDan Ilic  21:11  gotta grab for her justUnknown Speaker  21:12  Yeah. It has always been the sexy topic in international media to talk about the sinking islands. All the helpless little islands in the Pacific. They are sinking, they are dying. We are not about that narrative in the Pacific. We're actually about empowering. We're a proud people, Nick, you know, Polynesians, Polynesians are not taking anything lying down, you meet the Micronesians. They will not be taking this lying down, and they are not doing that. And so those are the stories we love to tell. Great.Nick Bryant  21:47  Yeah, I love that. She's saying, you know, you've got to get away from the doom and gloom narrative, you've got to get away from the narrative that we are helpless, you know, come to Polynesia. She said, an invitation I will happily accept editor and see the laughter You know, it's it's a place that isn't of living with this, you know, kind of mournful way. She said that she said, we don't grieve every day. You know, we are a joyous people. We laugh a lot. And he Polynesians are very faithful people, they wouldn't believe in a bright future. And there's a classic sort of white savior syndrome here as well, isn't it that it needs us as the white west to come and save these Islanders? And, uh, you know, again, she just rejects that sort of paradigm. Yeah. But when it when it comes to the reporting, I thought it was absolutely wonderful to speak to her and, and to hear that because it shows that even sort of well intentioned climate change coverage can can often go a bit of skew.Dan Ilic  22:45  Yeah. And you also spoke to Andrew McCormick, adjunct professor at Columbia University, Columbia Journalism Review. What kind of coverage does he do?Nick Bryant  22:55  Well, he's a really interesting guy, because he was in the US Navy. And he decided, you know, what's the best way I can sort of serve? And he decided to leave the military and actually to become a climate change correspondent, you know, we were talking to him about, you know, what good climate change coverage looks like this. This problem of, you know, for me, I mean, often climate change is a, what I call a diary story, rather than the daily story. It's a subject that gets a lot of attention around the time that the big summits like Glasgow, but falls off the radar in between. And I think a lot of the coverage that you see around the big conferences is often to expiate the guilt of newsrooms, you know, I haven't been doing an athlete's that's really monster around the climate change summits, you know. And, and he sort of accepts that that's a big problem. I think one of the interesting things he sat down was that COVID has shown how creative, you know, the journalistic profession can be you know, a lot of creative energy was brought to how to cover COVID. You know, so we saw things like, you know, the redesign of front pages to accommodate, you know, daily stats to tell us how many cases there were, how many desks there were that kind of stuff. I mean, he spoke about the New York Times one day had an amazing headline during the middle of COVID in New York. And I mean, this was when 100 people a day were dying in New York City alone. And I had COVID earlier on in the fear that that that brought, you mentioned this Times headline, and that, you know, the New York Times isn't known for its sort of radical newspaper design, far from it. But they had this spike in the death rate that that actually went right through the front page, and up into the masthead. So that kind of disrupted the words New York Times and, you know, he just showed a few examples of how during COVID You know, there was a real rethink, how are we going to tell this dramatic story, how we're going to tell this kind of emergency crisis story. And he doesn't always see that same creative approach when it comes to climate change reporting, and I thought that I thought that was really interesting.Dan Ilic  24:53  Yeah, I'd love to see the daily carbon dioxide parts per million stat on the front of the Daily Telegraph. That's what madingley shouldn't be doing. It's 113,000,413 parts per million Ben put that on the front cover.Nick Bryant  25:07  Finding those stats is a bit tricky, is it? Because it's kind of like, you know, pretty meaningless. And I think that gets you into another area of climate change reporting, which is how do you turn the stats into interesting stories? And the way to get to that is always through the humans, the human face.Dan Ilic  25:22  What's it going to take? What's it going to take for news orgs to really focus on climate to bring those stories to bear that are more than just a diary event? The IPCC?Nick Bryant  25:32  Yeah. I mean, Sky News is quite interesting study is a very different entity in, in Britain, it is in, in Australia, in Australia, it's not owned by Rupert Murdoch anymore. It's, and they actually have a nightly new show devoted solely devoted to climate, you know, they have made a daily commitment to actually say, you know, I don't know how long the program is 1015 minutes every night, we're gonna bring you a, we're going to bring you climate change news. And I think that is a really welcome development, when you kind of make that that sort of commitment, because that doesn't look to me, like window dressing, that, that that feels that's that feels meaningful to me. And, you know, they've done it. And, you know, it would be good if other other news organizations follow suit as well. Because, you know, Dan, this is, you know, this is the biggie. I mean, I still think 2020 in 100 years time, you know, we'll look back on 2020. And we'll look at the wildfires in Australia as being a more significant event in terms of the future of the planet, then COVID. You know, we're looking at, we're looking at the fact that people in Sydney were wearing face masks, not because of a an infection, but because of the air quality, because the wildfires and we think that was the most significant thing that happened in 2020. A look, I think, often it requires political leadership to dramatize these issues. I mean, I was actually you know, name dropping horribly, I ended up in a small lunch with Antonio Guterres in New York aroundDan Ilic  27:06  these guys like Greta Alba. Tony a guitar asNick Bryant  27:13  well, you have a Trump, sir, if you weren't, but it really relates to climate change. Butthis one does. And it was it was a small lunch with Antonio Guterres, you know, Secretary under the United Nations, it was in the midst of the obviously wildfires. And, you know, because I love AWS and I've pretty close eye on what was happening here, even though when I lived in, in America, you know, I just said to terrorism, why don't you fly to Australia, stand in front of one of these bushfires or sound as close as you can get. And just use it as this dramatic backdrop to say, we are saying something immeasurably different. Here we are, because he makes these speeches in New York and these sorts of doll settings, you know, the stakeout position at the UN, where they come to the microphone, and you know, it's always the same and the words are often the same as well, he just sort of repeats the same warning that he's made every year. But if you actually repeated those words, with a wildfire, a bushfire happening behind you, it would be so dramatic. And you know, guitarist is just really reluctant to do that he never wants to name and shame countries that are laggards on climate change. And Australia's obviously being one of those. And he just doesn't want to go there. And I think that has been a big problem as well. You know, journalists relies on actors who have real power and and often they are the politicians and the leaders of the UN who aren't delivering the kind of graphic pictorial leadership that sometimes journalist journalist needs to be really really effective.Dan Ilic  28:50  I do remember a photo of him in maybe you this conversation you had with him. Nick actually had some effect on him. He he I still remember this photo of him in Fiji in his suit, waist height and water. So it wasn't quite this. He did. I can't claim credit. So maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe Nick Bryant, you are the you're a faceless man behind the Antonia terrorism's photo shoot.Nick Bryant  29:13  Anybody who's seen my face with a faceless version of me withDan Ilic  29:17  that's not true, Nick. You know, the other journalists Nick, Brian in New York City. He's got the got his website, Nick, Brian nyc.com. He's got a disclaimer on his website saying I'm not the BBC next, Brian. He's much more handsome than May.Nick Bryant  29:31  Oh, I can't believe that's true. But we're there is another name Brian and he he really focuses on sex abuse against kids and he's become I think a lot of people have taken him up in sort of conspiracy theory, circles and, ya know, we, I'm constantly getting I mean, he he, for instance, discovered that Jeffrey Epstein had that, that black book and I'm constantly getting asked to do interviews about Jeffrey Epstein's black bookDan Ilic  30:00  Yeah Well Nick thank you it's been a net oh sorry doctor Nick It's been an absolute privilege to have you on greatest moral podcast of our generationNick Bryant  30:07  it's nice to be on thanks thanks for having me   A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/G'day Fearmongers —It is with great thanks to the Judith Neilson Institute for Journalism and Ideas we can bring you this excellent conversation about satire and journalism.Can satire change the world? Never.Can satire be more powerful than journalism? Doubtful.Can satire be journalism? Probably not.Australia's top satirists will ask themselves these questions and come up with the same answers during a special live event from A Rational Fear and JNI.In this episode of A Rational Fear some of Australia's most available smart arses wrangle with their (questionable) career choices and take a deep dive into satire's ability to replace journalists at half the price.Featuring cartoonist Cathy Wilcox, Dylan Behan (Newsfighters), Jan Fran (The Project), Ben Jenkins (The Feed), Lewis Hobba (Triple J), and Dan Ilic (A Rational Fear).Check out the photos below the podcast links 📸 👇📺 You can watch the whole video of this even exclusively on the A Rational Fear Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear or keep an eye on the @ARationalFear socials for 1 min snippets over the next few weeks.Big thanks to everyone at JNI who helped us pull it together.CheersDan Ilic🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Dan Ilic  0:00  Dan Ilic here with a pre show announcement to let you know that if you missed out on tickets to the opera house show for our 10 years of irrational fear, you can listen to it now it's on the irrational fear Patreon. So go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear, become a member and you'll see the post there. The audio is a little dodgy because the recording was recorded at quite a high level. So unfortunately, the really loud music of Paul McDermott we had to cut out but the good news is we're going to try and get him on a nother live show next month, so you'll be able to hear that right here on the free fade podcasts, I think. Yeah, so go to irrational fear.com forward slash patreon to hear our 10 years of irrational fear live show live from the Sydney Opera House. It was astonishing. And let me just say Louis hubbers rant about the Queen's Jubilee was something else. It'll make you feel extremely patriotic. Right now. However, you're going to listen to an incredible live show we did at the Judith Nielsen Institute for journalism and ideas about a month ago, about two weeks before the federal election. This was a show loosely about satire versus journalism. I think it was called The joke is mightier than the pen. And we had some of the best satirist in Sydney. Join us on stage to discuss whether comedy or satire is better than journalism right there in the home the crucible of Australian journalism, which is the Judith Nielsen Institute. So please enjoy this live show. If you were a member of the Patreon you probably would have seen the video of this about a month ago. So as he does this thing you get these live shows a little before everyone else. So please go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear to get early access to our live shows and our special events. All right, catch you later. We're at the Judith Nielsen Institute. It's beautiful. I'm recording my end of irrational fear I'm gonna go out to the urination. Sovereignty was never said we did a treaty. Let's stop the show.Simon Chilvers  2:00  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, and gum and section 40 of a rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:13  Tonight satirists declare themselves so important they don't actually have to be funny. Journalists declares themselves hilarious after putting 10 Dog pugs in a story about hot dogs. If you can wait a Walkley for a wacky headline where's the Walkley for most scathing Trump impression it's 15 days since the next sales 15 days until the next federal election Saturday stadion punch lines, this is irrational fear.Lewis Hobba  2:42  And such natural cheers.Dan Ilic  2:59  Putting this in putting your cheese in context, Louis and I just did a show the billboard International Comedy Festival in front of 800 people and it was slightly slightly we were used to a slightly different level of cheeringLewis Hobba  3:11  every person here is worth 100 MelbournianDan Ilic  3:15  Welcome to a rational fee on your host former host of CBS his Late Late Show Dan Ilic. And this is irrational fear live at the Judith Nielsen Institutewhere we'll be asking the question, is the joke mightier than the pen open open brackets? Probably not close brackets question mark. All right now we've put together a Supreme Team of Sydney's satirist to ask this question or to answer this question and what a team it is the very fact that Sydney has like five employed satirists is astonishing. It says a lot about the political comedy industrial complex, doesn't it? Let's meet our female guest tonight. They are a writer, performer, director and podcaster currently slinging topical jokes at the mainstream media from the bastion of the mainstream media. It is SBS is Ben Jenkins What is it like to be so anti authority but being a part of the authorityBen Jenkins  4:13  tremendously ironic? I'm really digging into my Amicus roots by producing satire with government moneyDan Ilic  4:23  and we've got a three time Walkley award winning cartoonist who has jokes his sharpest pencil it's Kathy Wilcox friend of the show have you killed anyone with your with your pencil before?Cathy Wilcox  4:41  Look just bugs I guess. infest the scanner and things like that a little wild corruption. Oh, that'sLewis Hobba  4:50  when the radical loony kills a duck a dayDan Ilic  4:59  and there are comedy created purveyor of wacky clips former Chase aired and the creator of the topical comedy podcasts of news fighters is Dylan Bane Dylan You're a faceless man of satire. How does that feel to have your face out here for once? I've never had this many people in my edit suite in my life. Walkley award winning opinion as to has risen to the heights of becoming one of Australia's greatest ever smart officers. It's Jan January you're at the top now you're Australia's number one smart is what makes me doJan Fran  5:35  you know, I just want to just create human like God like a God, just that sort of thing. I'm the spontaneous flatulence part of just FYI. So you're in forDan Ilic  5:49  and he's the host of Triple J drive. But what sets him apart on this panel is that he is a taller, cheaper Andrew Denton, Lewis Lewis, thanks for being Andrew Denton on this pedal.Lewis Hobba  6:02  Thank you. Yeah, I'm the only Andrew Denton who shows up to events and 20Ben Jenkins  6:07  if I if I get Andrew Johnson went into the machine with the fly, but it was there was a drop in.Lewis Hobba  6:13  Not I'm not in the category of COVID. So he sends me out of his body. DoesDan Ilic  6:18  everyone give COVID to limit your immune right now? All right, great. Now tonight as a panel, we as well as you were going to decide on this answer on the question. If jokes are better than journalism, it is a bit of a hard one. But all of us has an important role in this room. Because at the end, we're going to take a poll and then we're going to put it on this sheet which Kathy has designed and then we're going to mail it to the Governor General and it will be then sent to royal assent and we've even gotUnknown Speaker  6:58  Royal AssentLewis Hobba  7:05  with damping Seto to me I was like I don't know what Royal Assent Was anyone else don't know what royal wasBen Jenkins  7:10  like don't worry the sound will fix Yeah.Unknown Speaker  7:12  Okay side of royal decent.Ben Jenkins  7:16  The office to get to a throne.Dan Ilic  7:19  Rolled to said isn't that Prince Andrew? We've actually got our very own special postie. posi. Sarah is here. She's going to take take whatever we decide tonight and mail it direct to the Governor General. It's very exciting. All right. Now before we get into the nitty gritty, I just want to talk to you a little bit about news consumption in Australia. We've done a visit very research heavy, this part of the show. Now first of all, there's some pretty interesting things that are happening with media consumption in Australia right now. And it's all got to do with those damn meddling kids. In 2020, a survey of young people found that social media outrank their family and friends as television as their main source of news. Now this statistic isn't surprising. We all know that young people can't get enough of their damn phones. But when you put it in context of the bigger picture, you can see just how online as a news source has grown across generations with newspapers in the top three news sources for only the pre Boomer generation. That is crazy. Oh, that's older than Lewis. That is pretty astounding effect in 2020. For the first time, online news sources outranked all the other forms of news in terms of consumption for Australians, and also young folks, for the first time, I actually setting the agenda as to how those new sources are being influenced in Australia, which is super interesting. There was no kind of greater moment for satire. I think, though the power of satire. Then, when Facebook turned off the taps to news in Australia, I don't know if you remember this is this is on their platform in 2021. That was about 300 years ago. I think there are people in this room who weren't even born then. In case you don't remember, we made this handy explainer to remind you just what happened.Rupert Murdoch  9:10  So why isn't there any news on your Facebook news feed and here's a quick explainer by me Rupert Murdoch left hand on general of the News Corp and assorted expeditionary forces. Now, Mark Zuckerberg owns a website, Facebook, and Google owns a website called Google's and their websites own the data of all Australians who use it, which means they know what you want before you do. They're really good at selling advertising. I own a newspapers that are really bad at selling advertising. And those newspapers own the Australian Government and the Australian government makes laws so one day on a whim I thought Geez Louise with bad at selling air, everyone 60 month interest free deals for electrical computers furniture, bedding and flooring from Harvey Norman. Some people want magnetic lashes mailings that make your bum pop and other. We have no idea. But then I said to myself, Rupert, you own a good government, just sitting there doing nothing. Maybe you can get them to force the blokes with the websites that are good at selling ads to give us money. Then I called the government to my house by private jet made them pay for it. And I said, Hello, government, man, I forget their names. If you still enjoy being the government, can you do this? And they said, We do still enjoy being the government boss. Yes. And yes, we can do that. Now the websites that are good at selling ads have to by law, give me money. And the best part about it, Googles and Facebooks give the money straight to me tax free, and we wouldn't have it any other way of why start paying tax now. Some journalists would say Oh, but there's no way to guarantee that money will be invested in New Journalism. Well, none of those journalists work for me. I don't hire. You may have noticed Facebook news is back. For now. Zuckerberg told the government is only going to pay us if he feels like it. Well, I respect that. At the end of the day, Facebook, Google and I all agree that we're not going to pay any money. Because why would you? There are a bunch of cowards.Dan Ilic  11:59  So, what's this got to do with new satire? Well, on that day, seven out of the 10, top postings from websites on Facebook were news websites, some entertainment news, and there's a couple of satire in there too. But the very following day, nine out of the 10 links posted on Facebook, we're delivering news from satire sites, and the audience is young and you know it. Very lucky to have John here from the chaser. He is one of the one of the slaves of the chaser working for minimum wage fleeing jokes going around it boys tonight. So we got the tutor advocate makeup 12345, the top five The Chaser in six and seven in the budget advocate, and the only one website to not actually be satire in the top 10. On that day was the Penrith Panthers website. And that's arguable, that's arguable it's arguable that they don't satire. Yeah. Do they even exist? pretty astounding stuff there. For folks in the audience who don't know what is a particular advocate. It's like the onion in the outback. It's a satirical newspaper set in the outback. This is their front page for today. I really like this one about elbows latest gaff journalists trick questions backfires, as Alberto is able to name entire Rabbitohs 1971 grand final side. Very good. This is some other headlines from today. Channel Seven reveals Sonia Kruger will stay on after big brother to moderate next leaders debate. This is one from the from a few months back that I love bloke who regularly buys pictures of strangers in pub bathrooms not sure what's inside this vaccine. And this one good is always this one always rolls out whenever there's a bit of gun violence in America, Australia enjoys another peaceful day under the oppressive gun control regime. And of course, there's the chaser and the chaser has very kind of similar sort of deal on their, on their front page as well. Very funny stuff. And thankfully, Charles sent me Charles from the Chase has sent me this data about their audience. And it's pretty astounding to see, you know, 2534 35 to 44, all the way to 54. That's a huge chunk of the audience there. A bunch of those young people will start consuming the chaser and bitter at bat at their age and then continue on for years to come. But let's put it in comparison, the footprints of these kinds of websites to other mainstream media. So SBS who Ben works for on Instagram has 117,000 followers on SBS Instagram. At the very top you've got ABC News.Lewis Hobba  14:40  Take that Ben vs loser for SBS.Dan Ilic  14:47  ABC is Australia's most trusted news brand, that's for sure. Seven 789,000 followers on Instagram. Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to how many followers that are advocate head to toe, shaking it up two fellas, three and 1000Jan Fran  15:05  approaching a male IDan Ilic  15:06  recommend reaching a mil anybody over a male 1.1 It is not under 50,000 followers. They are the biggest news brand on Instagram in Australia.Lewis Hobba  15:17  And also they make a delicious beer.Dan Ilic  15:24  Yeah, and also in terms of power of satire and kind of communicating ideas. A simple article like carbon capture and storage might get 25,000 clicks on ABC News. But when turned into interesting package with satire and jokes, with juice media, you can get close to a million. So satire reaches audiences. And I want to ask the fear mongers here tonight. Let's talk about it if a scoop falls in the forest, and no one is there to see it doesn't even exist. Do ratings matter here do cliques matter here?Ben Jenkins  15:58  Well, as somebody from SPS, I have to say straight away, ratings don't matter. In fact, in fact,I see ratings in a similar way to golf. The lower you get you win. I'm gonna go on to talk about this. In the little thing I'm talking about, I think when we talk about reach, we still have to talk about what that reach does. Because it's, you know, it's one thing to say, only certain people read this article, but heaps people saw this sketch. What what's it doing for those people? You know, what I mean? Like, like, what information is being conveyed? I'm not saying these things are completely devoid of information. But I am saying that, like, you know, what's the outcome there? Because from the creators point of view, those numbers are wackadoo Gray, like people are watching it, and they're being entertained by it, or at least they're sharing it. I hate watching whatever else, but like, to paraphrase, Tao carob, Derrick hanging from the castle, it's what you do with it, you know what I mean? Like, it's what, what's going on when people are ingesting? That is my question.Lewis Hobba  17:01  Yeah. Like the, for example, the like, vaccine joke on the tutor about, you know, men who Beiping is in a bathroom, but won't take the vaccine that was like, you know, that was a great joke. Everyone made that joke at some point. And, but like, No, that is not helping, like you don't like if you sent that to an anti Vaxxer. They're just gonna be like, well, it's just funny, stern fucking joke. And like, don't get me wrong. It's not like you can send them a well reasoned argument that will do it either. But it's kind of like, I don't necessarily think that a satire, satire reaching an audience is the same as satire, teaching an audience and alsoBen Jenkins  17:35  as as an article like that article that languished on those low numbers like would have had one would hope it's ABC. So you know, it's gonna be good, like, a lot of interesting things that these people wouldn't necessarily have considered or heard. But yeah, I mean, I do think it's like, really interesting that like, this stuff has the cut through that it does. And I think it speaks to as much of the sort of skill and ability of the satirist as much as it does to the lack of talent in Australian media, not NSA. You know what I mean? Like, if this is, I think it's kind of going like that, if that makes sense.Dan Ilic  18:09  Yeah, Jen, you make tons of viral kind of videos that go gangbusters. Do you ever dare to look at the analytics to see how long people have watched?Jan Fran  18:17  That's all I'm doing? Yes, I think like it to answer the first question. If a scoop falls in the forest, no one hears it, like does it make a sound? Does it land anywhere? The short answer is not really until you need some kind of a baseline to try and decipher the new spectrum. So for example, you can say, oh, Sky News is over here. SBS is over here. Nobody watches either of those things. That doesn't really matter. But they're kind ofpretending Yeah, so I think the importance of of stories or news outlets to exist, even though they don't get a super high audience is just to be able to diversify, I suppose the media landscape, right, because we do have a diversity problem in terms of ownership rather than, you know, cultural or gender diverse.Lewis Hobba  19:14  news.com we have the Australian and we have the Guardian male and the Herald. Plenty of news.Dan Ilic  19:24  As a subscriber of the Sydney Morning Herald, I feel like sometimes I'm subsidizing your Twitter account.Cathy Wilcox  19:31  You probably are. And I would say, you know, whether we whether what I do has cut through or not, is demonstrated by the fact that if I do things that are that are universally critical of the government, they love me. There's, you know, lots of retweets and lots of likes and all the rest of it. And then I do one cartoon about, you know, maybe elbows not not performing as well as he might. So I don't know if it's ringing anyone around. Less occasionally someone might say, okay, fair point, but mostly people. That's really unfair. I mean, the current changes IJan Fran  20:08  have water drops. Very, veryBen Jenkins  20:11  often. It's the sort of other side of what you were saying Jen about, like, a diversified media and like, it's, obviously you want a range of views and the media is far more like, I don't mean ethnically diverse, although, I mean, that would be nice. I mean, like, you know, so it's not just one thing, but what comes from having all these little pockets is a siloing effect. And Twitter is really a good example of that where everybody's really solid on their own thing. And so the polarization there of like you making a relatively benign criticism of say the leader of Labour Party all of a sudden they just don't they don't get that from their own internal silos so they think what's happening, she's been turned.Dan Ilic  20:57  The only time irrational fear has lost subscribers on Patreon across the month has been the day that we had Joe Hildebrand on so we can make fun of him to his face about new scopes turned to being a green environmental publication. We spent half an hour making jokes to Joe Hildebrand to his face about news Corp's track record on climate change.Lewis Hobba  21:18  But I also think that is an interesting point in terms of like satire reaching an audience is because, like, for something like that, for instance, like we we don't make we don't make our living off irrational fear. So that's fine. Like we can go LewisDan Ilic  21:32  Lewis doesn't make his living rational.Lewis Hobba  21:36  Which is lucky because I think I'm about $1,000 in the hole to this podcast. But what all these delicious soft drinks and once again, I'm gonna cheat a bit us sponsoring my lifestyle. Nova like it means like in the future, you may not get your Hildebrand on, right? Because you can't afford to not have that or like there are plenty of satirical places, particularly places like a tutor or whatever, who again, make so much money from beer doesn't matter. But there if you if you are a freelance satirist, you can't afford to piss off your audience, though it's really interesting. It's also finished, which, whereas if you are a journalistic entity, if you're if you're part of a corporation that has some backbone, you actually have the money to fund that.Jan Fran  22:22  Yeah, interesting. If you have some backbone? Yeah, that's the big question. This describesBen Jenkins  22:28  as the sub stack effect, which is, you know, that sub stack is like a newsletter service, basically, that allows you to really easily monetize,Dan Ilic  22:35  you know, there are three people in this room who know exactly what.Ben Jenkins  22:40  So basically, what happens is when when a journalist has a big following or columnist usually has been following, they go fuck this, I'm going to leave my outlet and go to substack get the money directly. And it's super easy to set up and your and your, your audience has to follow you. But what happens is because you're suddenly beholden, not to your editor, and not to your paper, but to the freaks, who give you money, it creates this crazy feedback loop where you start sort of writing more and more to please them and all of a sudden you have 20,000 bosses, and you see those numbers go up and down. So it's like this real time thing where it's like, is this what you want? Is this what you want? Is this what you want?Dan Ilic  23:15  And let me know the 372 people that pay for rational fear and Patreon completely. Excellent. All right, ladies and gentlemen and other folks in the room, please give it up for Benji.Unknown Speaker  23:28  Oh that was a great point.Lewis Hobba  23:36  And stop talking ben Jenkins started.Ben Jenkins  23:38  Yes, sir. Look, I'm a bit worried. Reading back over this as I was before you guys walked in that what follows is less an amusing sort of reflection on the nature of political satire and more a full blown mental breakdown. 10 years in the making, unleashed on a crowd who didn't ask for any of this. So please, bear with me because for over a decade in one form or another electron have worked for the chaser. That's where I started. I've worked in the field of political comedy, and only now having been asked to talk to you about it, do I reflect that I have no idea what it's for. And this troubles me and It troubles me. Because political comedy is a mode of comedy that unlike its less serious cousins in the sweeping halls of chuckle Manor seems to insist that it is in fact for something beyond the convenience of laughs goofs Japes, etc, from the comedian to the viewer, there's a worthiness to it inherent in the form that suggests that in the creation and ingestion of satire, something larger than entertainment is taking place. But here's the thing. Every time I try and articulate what that is, I start to sweat. Now there are two cliches that I've been carrying around in my head for the past decade that have been a comfort to me and they are this set. I can change minds where conventional journal journalism cannot, and satire holds the powerful to account. But when I hold these up, due to any kind of serious scrutiny, they fall apart now, just quickly, I just want to say for the purposes of this meltdown, I'm really only concerned with the kind of satire that hyperreactive news cycle style of political comedy, something happens in the world. And within a week, the satirist has released a piece on a week is actually quite long. You know, the headlines you saw there that was a day turn around the work that I do on the feed, that's four days. And whether that takes the form of a sketch or a comedian being serious behind a desk or a monologue or a cartoon or whatever giggle pot, we're putting our insights in and giggle pot is a technical term. So the reason I'm leaving out satirical novels, or films or TV shows is that they represent just a fraction of a fraction of comedy, political comedy currently being produced. And here in Australia, that fraction is basically a rounding error. And because it's really the only game in town, it's also where I've spent most of my career. So I feel qualified for a little mortified to reach the conclusion that when it comes to those two aims, the changing of minds and the holding of powerful to account, this ubiquitous style of political comedy is outside of the gratification of the maker and viewer. Useless. I also want to point out and I do feel this is very important in relation to you, not all hating me that what follows applies just as much to a lot of the stuff that I've produced in my career as it does to everybody else. So let's go Saturdaya changes minds. I want to ask you a question. When was the last time you changed your mind? About anything? No, what brand of home is to buy? Or what stocks to wear? That's something big something like how you feel about climate change, or what party you're vote for, or any of the handfuls of beliefs that make you you. This is an incredibly rare thing to happen to an adult. There's a really good book by an Australian philosopher called element Gordon Smith called stop being reasonable. And I read it a few years ago, and it planted this seed of doubt in my mind, that's the first question she asked in the book, when was the last time that you changed your mind? Because if this has happened to you, in the recent past, this kind of seismic shift in thinking on an issue that we're talking about here, I'll bet it was for something I'll bet it was because of something that happened to you, or to somebody you love, or a lengthy conversation you had, or just the long and boring chipping away at a premise until something just came loose. What I'm willing to bet didn't happen to you on the road to Damascus is that you watch the three minute sketch on the issue and completely changed your thinking. And there was a good reason why I'm skeptical about that. A lot of political comedy is terrible, like Voltaire's remark that the Holy Roman Empire wasn't holding or Roman nor an empire. The overwhelming majority of political comedy is neither political nor comedy. Topical satire has become in essence, the satire is saying the opposite of what they actually believe, but in a hat.In order to enjoy most modern political comedy, you have to already be on board with the premise from the very start, the audience needs to know that the sadder is hates the people they hate, thinks the things that they think are stupid or stupid and likes the things that they like Tom Lehrer, some of you may know one of most famous satirists in America in the olden days, he had this to say of satire, he said, the audience usually has to be with you, I'm afraid. I always regarded myself as not even preaching to the converted, I was titillating the converted. It is a deeply in curious way of processing the world around us. And what's more leaves zero chance that anyone who doesn't already think as you think will be persuaded that we're gonna be wrong here. I don't think for a moment that good satire reaches across the aisle and some sort of milk toast centrism. But what I am saying is that if we are going to have an endless churn of super partisan satire, where our ideological opponents are pantomime villains, we can also turn around and expect it to do anything but the mild titillation of the already faithful. And this is a point that I keep coming back to that modern political comedy is by its nature, deeply curious. I've said this in writings elsewhere, but one of I believe one of the only truly worthwhile things we can do with the time we're given on Earth is have a nice, long think about how that world works, and how we work and how the people in it work. Modern political comedy discourages that impulse in both the creator and the viewer stranding, both in an endless feedback loop of ever loud louder choruses of I know, right? I know, right? I know. Right? So let's just quickly move on to satire holds the powerful to account this gets repeated a lot. It's the breakfast is the most important meal of the day for political discourse. And it's a matter that I have to admit, I have been skeptical of for a while. One fairly obvious piece of evidence against this is that if the powerful truly were afraid of being held to account by satirical news programs that wouldn't voluntarily appear on quite so many of them. They wouldn't take to social media to share clips where they're lampooned accompanied by self effacing comment, like, not sure about this one, they wouldn't go they wouldn't go out of their way to get photos of themselves with the satirists. but many do. And obviously the satirist themselves were serious about business of holding these people to account they wouldn't pose for these photos. What we have is a relationship that looks less like say, look more like symbiosis than any kind of antagonism. And what's more, if it were true that a student mockery, incisive with the poison pen and all that was in fact a formidable weapon against tyranny, then given the abundance of both satire and tyranny, it shouldn't be difficult to find a real world example of this account holding taking place, but it is difficult, it's incredibly difficult, and why should they be afraid? I mean, the limits of satire as an agent of any kind of meaningful change are fairly well catalogued often by the satirist himself. To quote another long dead person when he founded the establishment Club in 1961. Peter Cook told reporters that he was hoping to modelled on those wonderful Berlin cabarets that did so much to stop the rise of Hitler. And speaking of Hitler, a segue that I really do try to avoid where possible. How did he feel about chaplains? Vicious skewering in The Great Dictator? Well, he fucking loved it. The man own two copies. And speaking about dictators, yeah. Wow. Speaking about dictators, there I go again. Donald Trump changed the satire calculation entirely. The Trump era despite breathless predictions did not prove a boon for the earnest desolating sent in America. A common explanation given was you can no longer ridicule politics because it itself had become so inherently ridiculous, in and of itself, that this was such a popular refrain always seemed faintly stupid to me, because it doesn't even intuitively passes true. Ridiculous, people are in fact quite easy to ridicule. It's right there in the name. But and here's the crucial point for ridicule to be enjoyable and satisfying. The party being ridiculed must be capable of shame. As crusty once said, The saps got to have dignity. It's often said that politicians are so hard to pin down post Trump is because we're living in a post truth universe. But that's gets it wrong. The universe we currently occupy is post shame. people who'd like to talk about the power of satire often invoke the Emperor's New Clothes where only a brave truth telling child is able to voice what the others won't. But the Emperor wears no clothes and the child has right the child, the crowd sees the truth of this and the Emperor is shamed. What Trump showed very clearly is that if the Emperor waits a second until the kid has set his pace, and then says, Yes, I do, actually, and then goes about his day with his cock and balls out a little shit doesn't really have a comeback.In closing, there's one thing that satire can do. And it's offer the audience a kind of catharsis, to release of emotion of anger or frustration of rage. And while it feels good, but here's my question. Do we really want to be venting that stuff out into the ether isn't the pressure of those feelings, what drives people to make meaningful action to take that rage and focus it on organizing to effect meaningful material change? Because here's the thing, if all we're doing here is making stuff that makes us feel smart, for people who already agree with us with no real impact on those with whom we disagree on the targets of our idea, then all we're really doing is an act of self gratification. And all it really achieves is a kind of temporary, good feeling in the form of a release. And there is a word for that. Thank you. Ranking, ranking, ranking ranking.Dan Ilic  33:22  I thought, well, that's strange.Ben Jenkins  33:27  I couldn't find my mic.Dan Ilic  33:31  Well, that's it for the show. So thanks very much for coming, everyone. That was really great. That was super, super good. Ben, I think about a lot of that stuff all the time. One of the rational fish shows we did was in Baga, we did climb a hill, Syria did a tour of climate vulnerable venues, and bigger was one of them. And it was remarkable after that show, sitting in the pub, having folks come up to us, and thank us for doing the show there because they wanted to laugh about climate change is they'd had like their houses or burned their house. There's like, it's just one of those things where folks were coming up to us in the pub and saying, oh, you know, that was so wonderful to hear jokes about that. And it truly felt for the first time in my 15 year career that we were useful.Ben Jenkins  34:12  I do think though, like, I didn't put this in because I was already speaking for 45 minutes. But the other side of catharsis is a galvanizing sense. It's the it's the other side of it. So catharsis is like, you know, from the Greek it means like to purify on purge, it's like a release of something. Whereas like the galvanizing sense is the opposite of that where it actually hardens people in a good way. It makes them stronger, and it makes them feel seen and it makes them feel powerful. So I do think that's an element of it, too,Dan Ilic  34:41  which is why we're going to Lismore to do a show it's going to be Trump is an interesting character. A lot of folks when I was in America doing satire for American, the broadcaster over there, were saying to me, Hey, you get it's got to be so good. It's got to be so good to do Trump jokes. You're so lucky Trump's in power As as people who had to make fun of Trump, did you enjoy that period caffeine?Cathy Wilcox  35:07  It was it was sort of invigorating in the first place and then exhausting in the second place because you realize that you couldn't keep up with the amount of of stuff that he was doing. You'd be initially you know, waking up extra early to see what had happened overnight and things. And then you'd be going well, I do Trump this week. Well, no, it doesn't really matter if I do Trump this week, because he'll have done he'll do something next week. I can hold off till then. I think there'sBen Jenkins  35:31  a deliberate strategy in a way I mean, like, it's always it's always hard to, like, you know, give any kind of credit to him and his inner workings. It's sort of like trying to work in a life of zebra but like,Cathy Wilcox  35:43  when octuple lies does end up making a single lie worthless,Lewis Hobba  35:48  a strategy, right? Like it was like Joby ocupado said, and he talked about chicken feed, like giving journalists chicken feed to make sure that something to nibble on. There's just like Trump was just like, fucking flog raw, like,Dan Ilic  35:59  down the throat of a ghost. There was a lot of folks that suggested that at one particular joke, one bit of satire actually turned Trump into somebody who wanted to run for president. That joke came from Barack Obama in the White House Correspondents Dinner. Let's have a look at that joke and see if you think oh, here we go. Here it is.Unknown Speaker  36:19  Donald Trump looks young tonight. Now I know that he's taken some flak lately, but no one is happier. No one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest to them than Donald. And that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter. Like did we fake the moon landing? What really happened in Roswell? And where are Biggie and Tupac? All kidding aside, obviously we all know about your credentials and breadth of experience. For example, seriously, just recently, in an episode of Celebrity Apprentice at the steakhouse, the men's cooking team did not impress the judges from Omaha Steaks. And there was a lot of blame to go around. But you Mr. Trump recognized that the real problem was a lack of leadership. And so ultimately, you didn't blame Little John or meatloaf.Unknown Speaker  37:50  You fired Gary Busey. And these are the kinds of decisions that will keep me up at nightDan Ilic  38:03  so angry so that was that was the joke. That was the joke that people said that was the joke that turd Trump to a guy that wanted to run for president and ruin America.Jan Fran  38:13  That is so hard to hear. If you watch the roast of donald trump, which I can't remember what year it happened in not too far from when he ran or decided to run for president. There's all these comedians that are like, Haha, you think you're gonna become the president? illusion or, and watching it now in retrospect, you're like, What the fuck are you clowns doing?Ben Jenkins  38:34  He was like, the complete opposite of who he was in every single way. It's quite an inspiring story. said he couldn't do it.Jan Fran  38:43  That's kind of the problem is that you actually sort of end up exalting the man while what you're trying to do is you know, hold power to account but you make him so much more powerful than if you just said nothingBen Jenkins  38:54  we didn't want to have happen. It isLewis Hobba  38:57  truly impressive that for once a really rich guy managed to become president. A lot of stores real sand lookDan Ilic  39:05  terrible. I'm gonna share a sketch that I dislike. I made it in 2016 before Trump was became president, and I just thought, Oh, this is a hilarious hypothetical. What if Trump did become president, and maybe this could be his White House briefing room?You know what, when President Trump says he's gonna blow up Mars, he's just joking. He's more likely to blow with Venus since that's where women are from incredibly vicious rumors about a sex tape between the First Lady Melania Trump and President Trump in the Lincoln Bedroom. I can assure you that that tape exists, and it will be available for 699. Thank you for your question. The question was, Is it true that it is legal now to ask questions at press conferences? Yes, yes.Unknown Speaker  39:58  You're going to jail. IfDan Ilic  40:02  the President will not stand by while being called a bully and a misogynist, in fact, he called the Prime Minister of England just this morning and told her to quote, watch her pretty little mouth. There you go. How did you get in? Steve? Get him out. MSNBC is in here again. All right. Really? Yeah, that was myLewis Hobba  40:27  that was not that far off. It was a blow up Mars, but he did invent a Space Force. There was like the misogyny everywhere he did banned people from the press room. That was annoyingly prophetic.Ben Jenkins  40:41  Because Sandra Ilitch over here. Yeah.Dan Ilic  40:44  But oh, yeah, my I guess my point is like, Oh, well, I made that thinking that was hyperbole, but it obviously just wasn't it was just not for course, first year. Yeah. Next up, please get up for Kathy Wilcox.Cathy Wilcox  41:06  Hi, thank you. I'm a little unrehearsed because I'm just waiting for that muse to strike me. And I'll tell you what's happening. As soon as I see the pictures, rather than then put out an argument for whether satire is more powerful than journalism because I kind of exist somewhere on the line between those things, I suppose. Somewhere I have, I have a you know, an ID card that actually calls me a journalist. So maybe, and the workplace, they're called journalists. But, but as a satirist, and a cartoonist, obviously, it's a very dangerous job. And I want to, you know, give you an idea of some of the dangers. I mean, I'm quite apart from getting assassinated, or getting arrested and being, you know, like imprisoned and things like that by regimes like totalitarian regimes and things like that. You know, obviously, that you all know about that. That's truly dangerous. So all I can talk about is the is the thin end of that wedge, you know, the little things that the sorts of dangers that I live in my day to. Day, but you know, she kind of deserved it, becauseBen Jenkins  42:27  I haven't I have a little drawing that you did for me when my wife was pregnant. Her pregnant with Moses, and I'm there too, and he got shot that might.Unknown Speaker  42:41  So I want toJan Fran  42:43  meet him in the car park.Cathy Wilcox  42:46  Okay, well, I'm really glad that Ben has introduced the idea of me getting into the room. So we everything that happens after after now is kind of relief anyway. So um, but first of all, the thing is that, that it can be surprising because you're working, especially these days, on your own, from your own house, in your own room, and not actually even in a newsroom, and never even meeting politicians and never going to Canberra and I'm not an insider. And I'm not part of a press gallery. And I've always kind of assume because I'm not one of those sort of upfront out there, cartoonists that I'm not buddies with the politicians and I, and I kind of tell myself that they don't see what I do. So it doesn't matter what I do. The first cartoon Dan, if you'd like to bring up is, is what do we got? We've got the standard rigor. So he when Scott Morrison wanted to know who knew what about the rape of or alleged sorry, rape of Brittany Higgins in in, in an office in Parliament? Phil, I'm relying on you to get to the bottom of who in my office knew what when and then submit your findings in the usual way. And you just may see that there's a super shredder in the background there. The fill in question is one filled Gretchen's a very useful man to the Prime Minister and has been for several years he's been his, you know, his his advisor and to ice and, and he's head of Prime Minister and Cabinet and so forth. So he is the one who, you know, you heard was was tasked with doing this investigation. And here's the one you found out about some weeks, months later. In fact, he had he that he had suspended that investigation, but that nobody had really heard about it. But the weird weird thing about doing this cartoon was that the day that was published I received a phone call. I picked it it's not a number I recognize Yeah. And they're on the phone is Hello Is that Kathy Wilcox? Yes, it is. Phil Gretchen's. I had filed it had been published.Unknown Speaker  44:54  Oh, yes, I say. He said I just want Want to let you know that?Cathy Wilcox  45:03  I don't normally wear a tie? You dreaming in the cartoon with a tie? Yes, I did. And I know I'm not quite known for not wearing a tie in the shredder.Lewis Hobba  45:22  I think we all agree. Everyone knows me, who's been really keeping this very important report. It is my classic open car.Cathy Wilcox  45:32  So I said, Well, now that you mentioned it, I have to admit that when I was looking up photo reference to draw you, I did see a number of features of you without a tie. Could I just I was in a hurry. And I just assumed that the ones with the ties were just further down. more full. Yeah. Yes. He said, Well, just don't do it again.Ben Jenkins  45:57  I seem everyone in this room is rocking his signature look.Lewis Hobba  46:05  There's a cost to Tiktok dance do the gate.Dan Ilic  46:11  He said don't do it again. Was it sinister? What was the tone?Cathy Wilcox  46:14  I said, I can assure you, I will be very careful not to make that mistake again. And he said, Okay. You know, I'm only joking.Lewis Hobba  46:28  The old I'm only joking. OhUnknown Speaker  46:30  mankini the next time.Cathy Wilcox  46:35  That was only the first time I ever drew him. So it's so happened as as mentioned, some weeks later, there was some tooing and froing and Senate estimates and so forth. And there was further question about what the Prime Minister knew. And there was further revelation that this, this inquiry had been suspended. So the prime minister hadn't had an answer to it, because, in fact, it had been suspended. And he had been told about that either. So and there were various other things that he hadn't been told about. So if we could flip to the next cartoon, which I consider to be a very good opportunity for a cartoonist who's been possibly possibly joked about with by a very powerful man by the Prime Minister, Australia's most senior public servant, just so everybody knew who I was talking about. The Secretary of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet feel Gretchen's does not wear a tie. He told me himself after I wrongly drew him wearing a tie. Now I apologize for this cardinal sin of a cartoonist who just put themselves in a cartoon I've ever seen. You do that outside of there? I've done a few times, but it has to be for a very good reason. This was toLewis Hobba  47:44  put himself in his car. GarfieldCathy Wilcox  47:50  recently, I thought, you know, this is an informative cartoon. Recently. The pm didn't know about Britney hignett, Higgins. Right, Mr. Gachon, suspending his inquiry into who knew what the PMO backgrounding journalist about Mr. Higgins partner, where is Phil Gachon tieDan Ilic  48:10  is filled with the ThaiCathy Wilcox  48:13  Prime Minister with the Prime Minister around his eyes keeping short making sure that he does a follow up phone call. Did not my dad so wanted to know if he followed up on the phone as he calls you yet. I said I think he's smart enough to know not ever to call. So that was one thing to know that the person is is watching you sort of with that closeness that they can phone you on your mobile, I'd haven't given him my mobile phone. I don't know how he knows that.Ben Jenkins  48:47  Probably programmers who just tried toCathy Wilcox  48:50  yes, those friends of mine. So. So that's one thing. And the other danger for people in this position is I would say litigious politicians. You might remember that time that the then Attorney General was in a spot of bother over over allegations of what he had done in his in his care for a youth. And when he came out and finally made this speech, and it was was much waited for moment and click click, click, click click all the all the cameras are going and he's there and the lights on him and lots of close ups to his face. And Is he is he acting? Is it for real is what's he saying here? So I felt like I wanted to act him there. So for me to have to disprove something that didn't happen. And I love that isn't that this is since since Trump to say didn't happen. It's just like, it's like a little kid gone. It's gone away.Unknown Speaker  49:52  Mummy gone away. It didn't happen. So something that didn't happen would be the end of the hall. Oh, Australia, thank you.Cathy Wilcox  50:05  Secret trials partners and appointments to trust integrity, body matters of rule of law, if you're really gonna go looking at it, and he goes, questions the rule of law. So, it has been observed that I am a frustrated actor when I put myself in my in my work. However, this had to get past the lawyers who occasionally are given, you know, to look at my cartoon by the by the editor that I submitted to, I have enormous free rein, I submit my cartoons, mostly I don't hear Boo from anybody about it, except maybe a thanks for sending it or something like that from the sub editor. But I don't have to run ideas past an editor, I don't have to, you know, submit five, five ideas to somebody to see if they're funny, I get to just do this stuff. And it's only when something's usually legally contentious, or in very poor taste, which of course, I would never do that, that they, you know, have to have made you question something. So this one got run past the lawyers. And in the old days, there was a lawyer at the Herald who you hoped that he was the guy who was on on the night when your cartoon got lowered, because it was very easy. And he went very wide margins and you know, he, he'd wave anything through these days, we have much more sort of nervous nervous lawyers, and they're shared by by both the Herald and the age, so you can't kind of go well, this one said it's okay. So to argue with that one, so I'm, there's only me now to argue for things with the lawyers. So I argued, that are what we know they're called they're called sways they point their complaint was valuable. I am suggesting I'm suggesting, especially in in frame six, hear that he is insincere, that he is just acting. So I've made it look theatricalDan Ilic  51:58  to the people that podcast, it's a picture ofCathy Wilcox  52:02  bowing is doing a very grandiose Bow. Thank you thanking people for hearing him out there. And the the lawyers said, No, that is suggesting that he's, he's not sincere. Wow. Anyway, I went away. And first of all, I said, I argued, and I said, in my cartoon, I'm not saying any more than our own journalists have written their own opinion writers and so forth. They have all, you know, question this thing. And also, I'm just using his words. And I'm, you know, and so that little bow is the only kind of affectation in a way, but I said, But if I'll take the bow, would you be okay. So, here is the cartoon all the time, except framsticks has been changed. And they went, Okay, we're okay with that. And I thought, wow, I want against the lawyer.Dan Ilic  52:59  This time, he's got his hand on his heart.Cathy Wilcox  53:03  There, but that is some but it's not so much that I had that I want against the lawyers. It's that that the lawyers or the newspapers, the mastheads was so intimidated by this, this guy who has proven himself to be litigious and was in the process of suing the ABC and all that sort of thing. But they were twice shy about doing anything that might draw your attention and and you know, cause him to come up anyway, nobody, nobody got hurt. Nobody got sued. And I didn't hear any more about that. ButUnknown Speaker  53:37  he got sued in the air No, IBen Jenkins  53:42  honestly, if you fall over and chip in your driveway, see the ABC.Cathy Wilcox  53:48  So that's those are a couple of the dangers, therefore being watched, being potentially sued by litigious politicians now, what else do we got? Oh, yes, doing things about Russia, or Israel, or a few. There are a few like really, really delicate pieces of ground, but I have come to understand the the reaction I will get when I do something, do a cartoon that is about one of those difficult areas. And on this case, this was like, you know, like, I could have timed my watch, set my watch by this one, because I know now from years of occasionally doing things about Russia and Putin and all the rest of it that you don't get told, Oh, you're an ignorant auto, you know, you shouldn't do that. You're wrong. You got you get told. Oh, I'm really sorry that you're so ignorant, how embarrassed you should really educate yourself. You must feel so embarrassed to be so stupid. One low IQ who is normally so smart. So they do this little manipulating thing where you feel like an idiot. So you have been successfully propagandized. Cathy, there is another study scientists Don't worry that you need to make yourself aware of. Well, that was only a couple of days what was it? The third I think it was the next day that the same same day, the next day that the invasion happened. Yeah. So So you know, I think he was wrong and also I know now not to worry about that. That sort of intimidating response because it is very formulaic and and it comes at you from a usually a fairly organized lobby although that might. The final danger is whimsy. Do not engage in whimsy at all costs, not on Twitter, not when you're expected to be a political commentator ever stop to think how amazing birds nests are. I mean, if we tried to do that we'd never get it through counsel for a start. And the structural engineering so potentially three to four full grown magpies in twigs and fluff and bird poo cantilevered. Sure. That's the that's the submission to council. Yes, I do. Actually. I think every person who experiences homelessness thinks about the natural rights to make a safe mess anywhere on earth without it being illegal or the land owned by someone else missed and peeps have no idea about the trauma of being denied the right to exist. I was schooled I can tell my fuck you.Jan Fran  56:20  Do you know what the red flag in this tweet though? Is Kathy? The Globe? Anyone that's got emojis? No. You're gonna getLewis Hobba  56:36  everything about everyone getting abused on Twitter is that there's so many. We simply don't have time to go through all of them. Is that because I work at Triple J, we've got a text line. And so like before, everyone has been like, I'm getting a bit abused. I'm like, welcome to the fuckingUnknown Speaker  56:55  Welcome.Lewis Hobba  56:57  Welcome to the nightmare. Welcome to the seventh circle.Jan Fran  57:01  Can I tell you the most delightful time that I got abused on social media after posting one of my videos to Facebook, which is really just the you know, Boomer brain graveyard at this point, but I posted it and you know, a couple of people commented whatever. And then someone underneath the video, commented, go, we'll wait. You're on my page. I clicked on the profile. And it was an older woman from Tasmania that really enjoyed bird watching.Unknown Speaker  57:39  He got to watch with a bird watching heJan Fran  57:42  posted. And I thought I had to do this and the name was Mary. And I said, Hi, Mary. You're on my page. I can't go away. I'd like to you can. And then I left it and close the laptop. That was the tone that I had intended it in my mind. And I came back maybe an hour and a half later. And there was all of this vitriol against for Mary. I did it. And I started to pile on. Unwittingly, unknowingly completely unintentionally. Call it off. I deleted the whole thing. And I was close to deleting my entire Facebook.Dan Ilic  58:32  You're a better actor and governance professional than Mark Zuckerberg.Jan Fran  58:38  Yes, I should run Facebook.Cathy Wilcox  58:41  Yep, no, I've done that too. I've deleted a tweet that has provoked a polemical even though it didn't wasn't meant to because yeah, likewise, it'sDan Ilic  58:51  very the creators on stage not created anything that's dangerous like Kathy.Ben Jenkins  58:57  I mean, I haven't done any damage to pull Mary if I get death threats, sometimes fun. It's just it's from my son used to give him apricot and lead each week until six. But it's like, I don't know. I think it's a guy. It's it's really different because I'm just like, your domain like, but there was one tweet I did, which was like, sometimes I'm just like, I'm having to go today. I'm just gonna see how many people I can piss off. And it was like right after Boris Johnson had gotten COVID. And a lot of people were like, good. And then there's all this like weird hand wringing was coming up. Well, you might not agree with him, but he's a human being. And then and then there was like, That couple of days later, Kim Jong Un was reported as ill. And I just like, I just Yeah, yeah, I just tweeted like, how have you feel about his politics? He's a human being I think we can all like, come together on metal. And it was like it was just it was deliberately just, it was just sort of on the edge of sincere that people would think I was.Unknown Speaker  1:00:10  You tweet all the time.Ben Jenkins  1:00:13  This didn't get me death threats. But this made Twitter unusable for me for about for about a day was during the Oscars a couple of years ago, I tweeted, this is all well and good. But wouldn't it be wonderful if we gave awards to books?Unknown Speaker  1:00:27  And a mixture ofBen Jenkins  1:00:30  people being like, Oh, actually, I appreciate the sentiment, but we do give books. Because I was born I just be like, No, we don't be like No, we, we do the Nobel prize goes to literature. And I'm like, that's for science. It's so sad. I have a full time job and a child. That won't give me death threats. And I told my wife because she was like, I saw this thing. Why did you do that? And I was like, oh, no, honey, but it's funny, because look at these people who say they're gonna kill me. She was like, What the fuck? And I was like, oh, that's online,Jan Fran  1:01:03  getting a slew of like, when I did the first season and crushing everything last year. It's like, I don't really check a lot of my social media. But then, you know, once you start getting notifications from people with wraparound sunglasses, and Australian flag profiles in in their Twitter, you're like, oh, something's gone horribly wrong. And it turns out that there was a YouTuber that made a video about me, and you know, it was like, ABC leftist journaux you know, like sucking on the government T yada, yada, yada. And I kind of just I've watched the video just to make sure that there was nothing that was like, there was no call to violence or anything towards me. But I got a an unrelenting barrage on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, in my email, I'm not sure how they found my email, but I started getting emailsDan Ilic  1:01:53  tweeted it when I started to directly talk to Jen.Jan Fran  1:01:58  That's how they got the email. And the thing is, it's like, there is nothing that the ABC can do. They were like, well, you could just block people.Ben Jenkins  1:02:07  I'm aware of the Navy. No, butJan Fran  1:02:11  that's I mean, that's kind of like partly the problem ofDan Ilic  1:02:13  did you feel your life was at risk at any point? I didn't feel likeJan Fran  1:02:17  my life was at risk really. But I did feel like most of the people online when you know you say something that they don't particularly like and something like this happens they'll vent online and then they'll fuck off but sometimes I think to myself What if there is just that one really hectic person who doesn't fuck off and for whatever reason has a been his bonnet about you and this thing that you said and did and then finds your address online and then shows up like that is not a ridiculous thing to think so that's that's the reality and the fact is that it doesn't matter whether you're a freelancer, whether you work for a legacy media organization, there's nothing that can be done here. I've emailed YouTube and they've come back and Ben been like, Oh, and this was for a different matter with a completely different person they like you know, nothing broke our rules of engagement or whatever it is, so there's really nothing that we can do. Well, Jen,Dan Ilic  1:03:08  we're going to surprise you side stage we have the only time I've ever done anything kind of remotely sort of dangerous through comedy was I got I got to pull it from Manus Island making where the bloody hell are you sketch with refugees on Manus Island. Just pay for that now and we'll move onUnknown Speaker  1:03:33  you stopped the boat. You put us in a prison in a tropical island. In 60s, I had a lot of time thing. Mostly about my mother's passport.Unknown Speaker  1:03:44  If you want to go by boat.Unknown Speaker  1:03:48  By planeUnknown Speaker  1:03:51  we learned some Australia and culture. This guy this shit didn't go after six years we've been waiting to be processed Prime Minister's combo so.Dan Ilic  1:04:22  Everyone, please give epogen friends.Jan Fran  1:04:27  Thanks so much. I mean, turns out that I'm probably going to build a little bit on Ben's entire premise that satire does not change hearts and minds and that it does not necessarily hold the powerful to account but I'm gonna go a little bit further. And you know, write a little bit of a love letter, a manifesto, perhaps to make people entitled journalists and comedians should maybe think about shutting the fuck up a little bit more. So sometimes people call me a journalist slash comedian, which I think is a nice way of them saying that I'm a bit shoot at both. That's okay. That's fine. It's you know, it's anytime anyone uses the slash that's kind of how you know, right? Like if you go to an Italian slash Chinese Oh, you're not getting either. You're getting dysentery but in this context, I think the slash is important right journalist slash comedian because it means that I have yielded both the pen and the joke. And I can tell you unequivocally right here, ladies and gentlemen, that when it comes to changing hearts and minds, and when it comes to making the world a better place, they are both garbage. They are utterly fucking useless. No one's life has been improved by a strongly worded op ed. No one wakes up in the cancer ward and says, Oh my God, you know what changed my mind. Do you know what cured me? Jen friends Walkley award winning opinion, the Frank Winnie 91. Love the guy in the cancer ward. I mean, no one wants to be held hostage only for the cops to show up, surround the building and pull out their pawns. There's times there's you know, we can see here and we can talk about whether the joke is mightier than the pen whether the pen is mightier than the joke. You know what he's mightier than both of them subsonic missiles. And I can tell you that nobody is worried about Vladimir Putin dropping by arrow on cares. This is truly the real world. And I think that terrible things happen in the real world. You know, the planet is heating up US inflation is the highest that it has been in 40 years. Clive Palmer survived COVID Even though he is the nation's underlying health condition. If we cannot tackle all these things purely with jokes and pens, unless we use the pen of some sort of stabbing, an ambush Clive as he's burning an effigy of Mark McGowan and a Red Rooster carpark, as he tends to do. So I would go so far as to say that we are perhaps bear with me wielding the pen, and the joke a little bit too much journalists, and comedians. And we have this idea that it's there to hold people to account. And it's there to change hearts and minds. And I constantly hear this refrain that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, right? It's a bit of a sort of a cliche thing to say about sunlight. So I'll just throw another cliche thing to say about sunlight, which is that it can also make things grow. And so when we think about what we're actually putting in the sun, over and over and over again, if your intention is to disinfect it, and it ends up growing, while suddenly you have quite a big problem on your hands, everyone has a big problem on their hands. And the other thing that I would caution is that when we talk about yielding jokes or yielding pins, he turns out anyone can actually yield a joke or a pen. Everyone has an opinion now, and some of them are award winning. Actually can't secure just because it hasn't happened yet. But I truly think that everyone being or having the access to be an armchair expert, is one of the most terrible things to happen to society currently, jokes and pens are meant to help us understand the world around us right so that we can make it better but the world is very complicated and nuanced on the internet is like a pregnant ladies vagina. No matter how hard you try, you just can't see itDan Ilic  1:09:19  really wondering when credible to the Patreon members Jan's trying to look at it.Jan Fran  1:09:32  They're there, it's just obscured. So there should be some ground rules perhaps in place to determine who should wield the pen and who should wield the joke and under what circumstances if you are someone who wants to talk about ivermectin, but you can't spell ivermectin you don't get to talk about ivermectin, no pan for you. Oh, no horses either. I say that it's just one suggestion this is totally off the top of my head. I've thought about it fleetingly. But I think it's a good idea. I think that we writers and journalists and jokesters, I think that we should take a backseat in this moment to a group of people who are currently at their most fuckable. Scientists. This is their window. We need science now, in my view, more than ever, especially because we have a prime minister, who as we know, loves to take policy advice from God. And from God's one true son, Lachlan. Science is what will change hearts and minds science is mightier than the pen is mightier than the joke. Art is what will change hearts and minds mightier than the pen mightier than the joke? Do you want to know what the highest form of knowledge is? It's empathy. I read that on the back of a tamponimagine anymore. Imagine if we were obscuring all of these potential forms of knowledge, without jokes, and with articles, and with our opinions, and with our tweets, and with our commentary. What is it that we are doing to the world? It's true that, you know, you can say the joke is mightier than the pen. You can say the pen is mightier than the joke. It doesn't matter. There are things that are mightier than both of them, including hypersonic missiles. As it turns outUnknown Speaker  1:11:59  Louis harborLewis Hobba  1:12:04  we have a little bit long, I assume, because I really need to pay I don't know. That's that's pretty much how I can tell the running time of these things. So I'll I'll crack through it. But look, the reason I think, just to wrap it all up, that setters and look, I'll say setters and comedians, and I'm referring to us, and you might be like, I don't even think of myself as a satirist. I mostly ask people where they've been stuck on radio, you know, out there doing the good stuff. I'm not, I'm not John Oliver, I'm an idiot. So just accept that I'm going to use that term broadly. And let's rock let's move past it so we can all pay. But the reason I think that satirists are the new journalists is simple. We can't exist without journalists, like 100% of jokes written by political comedians get written because they read a story in the news and the news is written by journalists, like we're lazy. We're too lazy to do it. And to show how lazy we are. For the next little while. I'm just going to make the same point over and over again, using slightly different metaphors. satirise aren't disrupting journalism were leeching off it were a pilot fish attached to a shark, where the cackling hyenas picking up the bones of politicians left behind by lions. If journalists are a majestic giraffe, using its height to scan for danger way or a silly bird that lands on its head. Forced to look wherever the giraffeis bull. Canadians are the last person in the human centipede. Just taking the research already digested and shut out by reporters and editors eating it up and then shooting it out again in a slightly different way. It's still shit. But our shit was shot by a human centipede. And that's gonna get clicks. Like journalists have to do a lot of stuff that is important and boring. Comedians want to do stuff that is frivolous and exciting. Like Can anyone here be bothered learning what an interest rate is? Like that? No, there's no such thing as a financial comedian. It would be cruel to teach us about money. Only for us to learn. We'll never get in. Like the grunt work of political journalism is getting things on the record like that's, that's the grunt stuff. That's the important stuff, like going to boring press conferences, making boring calls, getting people to say stuff, like in 2008 when a journalist got Scott Morrison on the record saying that he was in favor of a government supporting people buying houses with a housing equity scheme that was boring in 2008. And in 2017, when he said it again, and then he still supported the idea. It was boring then. But in 2022, when he attacks labor for the exact same idea, it suddenly become something, right? Something that gets the mouths of the little human centipede very excited. But good things take time, even hypocrisy, and time is something that journalists can afford to have. And look, I am not deifying journalists. They're normal people. And in fact, they're worse than normal people. Because their job is to be annoying, ideally, to people in power, that comedians or people pleasers. applause is our nourishment. Like, it's the base of our food pyramid. And so I don't think comedians are incapable of doing the work of journalists. But we're not financially motivated to piss people off like, we get paid by the ticket. So I think journalists have an employer and an employer who pays them more, the better they are at annoying people. It's the opposite of what comedians do. Like I would say the ABC has at times paid comedians to be annoying, and not in the way they pay me to be annoying, which is just by accident. But it's more of a sort of deliberate choice to pay comedians to be annoying on shows like Chase or or to nightly, which you talked about already. Very few people in comedy choose to make audiences happy by annoying powerful people on a freelance basis. It's just not a smart move. And so my point is really, that you you can't have political satire without journalists. But you can very easily have journalism, without satirists, because we're not going to do the research. And you know what? Sometimes you just need someone to look down the barrel of a camera and say Princess Diana is deadand you need to notify that out with damn lady died.That's some topical stufftalk on us was run by comedians, it would be the comedy central roast, if 60 minutes was one run by comedians in a go for 50 minutes, and we charged for the fallout. If current affair was run by comedians, it'd be a bit better. Like comedians aren't useless. I mean, we're not as bad as opinion writers.But mostly, we're just putting a shiny new package on an existing product and selling it as something new. And that is why we often end up selling it for free.Dan Ilic  1:17:48  Well, now comes the most important part of the evening, we get to decide whether jokes are more important than journalism.Ben Jenkins  1:17:56  This could really go either way. Really strong points.Dan Ilic  1:18:01  We're gonna tick a box here and send it off to the Governor General. So let's see if y'all want to, I don't know maybe want to Should we do a red text? Are you going to get a black text or sorry, sorry. All right. So let's raise your hand or actually because there's a podcast by round of applause, our jokes more important than journalism. You didn't and conversely, is journalism more important than joke's?On the panel here, just raise your hands is jokes more important than gentlemen, ifBen Jenkins  1:18:39  I can flip it? Yes.Cathy Wilcox  1:18:45  One counter counter case, yeah. Okay. I don't know if we've got time for this just that my dad reckons, and he's a conservative old bloke. And he only gets the newspaper The Herald because I'm in and he says, if I stopped drawing for the Herald, he will cancel his subscription. That is how powerful the sad guy isUnknown Speaker  1:19:07  very specific. On what I'm hearing isDan Ilic  1:19:13  nepotism rules over. So one more time jokes is jokes better than journalism? Is journalism better than jokes?Unknown Speaker  1:19:26  JournalismDan Ilic  1:19:27  is far more powerful than journalism.Unknown Speaker  1:19:32  All right.Dan Ilic  1:19:33  Let's send this to the Governor General. Please. Sara will you please post this immediately to David Hurley?Unknown Speaker  1:19:44  Please give it up. Thank you, Sarah. You going to take this as quick as you can? Take it as quick as you can to the Governor General Sarah I'm Dan Jenkins got the Blue Dogs dealing with Josiah. take you to the Judas Nielsen Institute for having a drug mods and our Patreon supporters. Until nextUnknown Speaker  1:20:24  time A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear 📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ 🎟️ SEE OUR LIVE SHOW: https://comedy.com.au/tour/a-rational-fear-live/ G'day Fearmongers,This is the 2nd last JZAC — and it's a good one. JZ has a conversation with Independent Candidate for Hume, Penny Ackery.There is a feeling of change in country NSW.Penny Ackery is a former special needs teacher who has been tasked by her community to represent the huge electorate of Hume.At 17 240 sq km it spans from Boorowa in the west to Appin in the east, with Goulburn smack bang in the middle. It's currently held by the Minister for Emission Expansion, Angus Taylor. One of the most powerful ministers in the government.But Penny has been hard at it, campaigning publicly since June 2021 — traveling the breadth of the electorate, listening, and consulting with folks about how to better represent them. It's the world's longest job interview.JZ lives in the electorate next door and has been supporting Penny Ackery in her campaign, so if this chat  sounds like two friends who are trying to make change in their communities — it's because it is.CheersDan 🤑 CHIP INTO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear During the election, your support is more crucial than ever! Thank you FEARMONGERS!If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261 Bertha Announcement  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation. Julia Zemiro  0:04  Hi, Julia Zemiro here, I'm recording this podcast on the land of the Gundam gara people. Sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the podcast.Dan Ilic  0:13  A podcast about politics for people who hate politics. This is Julian Zemiro asks, Who cares?Julia Zemiro  0:24  On this second to last podcast I'm doing with the irrational fie organization, how I love them. I wanted to speak with an independent, no matter how you look at it. One big part of Australia's 2022 election will have been the independence no matter what the result is, and I wanted to speak to one close to home Penny Ackery is an independent running in the federal electorate of Hume in New South Wales. And for the last nine years, it's been held by Angus Taylor, Minister for energy and emissions reduction, or is he anyway, Hume is enormous. I live in Whitlam, which is right next door, and it stretches from Warragamba. We're Alicia Camden and loving them in the north, down through Wollondilly, winter, Caribee, and golden, which is where Penny lives to borrow, gunning and Crookwell in the southwest. penny spent 30 years of her life in this electorate. Her most recent job has been as a teacher for kids with special needs. And she has been a teacher at Golden and picked in high schools. And during the pandemic, she was an advocate for small businesses across the electorate, showcasing what they were doing, just helping them to kind of keep alive. And I thought it was interesting to talk to an independent I've been a bit involved with independence, doing some launches, doing some webinars on Zoom, etc. Because I was fascinated by it. And I wanted to find out what it was all about why people were doing it, were people really stepping up and they absolutely were. And I think it's going to be a very interesting chapter in Australian politics, and it will be interesting to see where it goes. In the future. It feels like a circuit breaker for me. And I reckon a circuit breaker is not a bad idea. I wanted to speak to Penny about why she stepped up to run as an independent what the process was like, and what it's like in there now with a few days to go to the election day. Welcome, Penny, how you going?Penny Ackery  2:24  I'm tired. I'm getting to the exhaustion stakes. It's been a pretty exciting journey. It's I've met so many great people. I've had a great time actually in reality, so I'm doing pretty well. I'm just getting pretty tired and a bit of exhaustion setting inJulia Zemiro  2:40  I had a little flashback to the launch your launch. As a matter of just explaining why I'm interested in the independent movement in general. I like the way it's made people wake up a little bit to the fact that whether you like it or not, whether you think you should vote or not. There is someone in Canberra that represents your electorate and your life. And if you don't find out a bit about those people, then how can you make informed decisions when you vote, but I was excited by having read Kathy McGowan's book I was excited about people getting involved and getting enthusiastic about something that doesn't usually enthuse it make them enthusiastic, which is politics. And I almost feel like saying politics isn't even the word for it. It's just how we live. It's how we want to run our lives. It's it includes family and includes education includes all the things that we need to make a good society. But with your launch, I remember we had two options. We might be outside if it didn't rain, and then there was rain. And so we ended up in this fabulous basketball court in Golden 350 people were there. It was very exciting. You were so impressive. Penny, you just came out of that gate. How do you feel you've changed from that day of seeing all those people eagerly wanting to listen, they weren't all on board, yet. They were still figuring out what was going on to now.Penny Ackery  4:05  I think I've just got better at being a performer. But I think what it is, is I think more confident in the message that I'm giving and more confident in putting out what we believe in and talking to people about what they want, and asking them the right questions. So as I go from gathering to gathering, I've sort of perfected a little bit or polished what I say to people, but what I've also found is that so many questions are asked and so many questions out of left field, they think oh, I didn't think about that one. But what's been really good is I've been informed a lot more about the local issues about what people care about on a national board. And I've been able to get their views as well and meld them into what I know that the electorate wants. So how in a way I've more developed rather than actually change because of the excitement that that was in there. at basketball stadium was palpable. And every time I go somewhere, it's the same feeling. Even if it's only six people, I went to Penrose Association Hall just last Tuesday, and had all these people, they're really keen to support me, but wanting to listen and to discuss. So I haven't been telling them. I've been discussing with what it is they want, how they feel about things or going, getting some ideas, learning new things. I think it's a two way conversation that's been really, really important.Julia Zemiro  5:31  Now, I'm in the Whitlam electorate, which is right next door to the human electorate, which is the area that you're running for Hume is enormous. Are you finding that there are some some common themes that you're hearing from everyone?Penny Ackery  5:44  Yes. And the first one I'm usually greeted with is we need to change, we have to find a way to do our democracy better, we have to make things different. And the number of people I've met that have come out and said, Gosh, I would never ever come to something like this, I would never organize something like this, you know, like, I really feel strongly that we need to get a better option. And that's, that really stuns me. Like I knew there was a little group around me that pretty keen, you know, politically aware, and so on. But there's an awful lot of people either side of the political spectrum, that are saying it's not working, this two party systems are very well, but it's breaking down, we're not getting what we need these days. And I'm going to come out, and I'm going to sort of help, I'm going to wave the banner, and I'm going to support you, because you're the middle option, you're the centrist, you're the one that will listen the out there and help make a change. So that has been the connecting thing or up climate change, or I like to talk more about a renewable energy economy, protecting the environment, climate change is a real red flag. And I like to move right away from that. Because when I say to people who don't believe in climate change, when I say well, what about our water, we need to protect it and make sure it's clean? And what about our air and what we're putting into the air. And everybody's on board with that everybody wants fresh water and clean air and food? That's good. So I think talking about that is far more productive. And then it lets us go straight on to what can we do to make it better, which is to rewire Australia, to really think about how we farming, all of those issues. And especially it doesn't matter where you go, but particularly with farmers, that's more meaningful than saying, Oh, you have to sort of take action against climate change, or what is the action. And I find people are talking to me, not just about that sort of thing. But saying, Well, it's great to have all these announcements and to say, Oh, we've got to do this, we got to do that. But so Ghana, Ghana, Ghana, it's not a let's do it. And this is what we're gonna do. And this is step one. And that's what I like to talk about, we know that we can rewire Australia, we know that we have the renewables with our business counselors already said, Yes, we need a better target. And we got to move. We've even seen a lot of our coal mining plants start looking at what we need to start looking at, we will have to shut down how can we transition? And what else can our product be? Oh, we can do renewables. I think that's a, I think that's coming. And I think people are really recognizing that a lot more. So we do talk about how we can improve our environment and how we can have renewable energy is up and down the electric, when weJulia Zemiro  8:20  did the launch, Cathy McGowan, I think drove herself down from Victoria to attend, because that's how that's how passionate she feels about knowing full well, that one person can make a difference and change things. And she, of course, was the member for in die and had a lot of did a lot of great work for her electorate there. But what struck me on the day is that, you know, she looked at that group of 350 people and was sort of saying, you may not think that Penny knows how to be a politician yet, because she said, I didn't know I was green when I got in there. But as soon as she got in there, she realized that she did have a voice as an independent, rather than being an opposition where she was fighting for things all the time, and how fast she learnt. And I think what strikes me is that when you look at all the mainly women standing for being an independent, I find you all incredibly overqualified for the job of what I've seen men in suits do now for for 10 years. I just think when I look at you, Penny, you've worked as a teacher, as a teacher special needs, you've been doing it for a very long time, the skills that go into the patience, the focus, the empathy, they're all things that people keep saying I'm missing in, in politics, and I never understood why that would be the place where that should be missing.Penny Ackery  9:49  Yeah, that's right. And I mean, the other one we can add to there is action and having a plan and actually getting to the end of it. And then if the plan doesn't work, changing it because as I said, I often say As a teacher, like, you know, you have kids, and you've got to teach them a concept. So, you know, you plan it out halfway through then jumping out the window. So you think, Oh, hang on, it's not working, I think I'd better do something different. So you change it straightaway. You don't wait till the end of the lesson. When it's all chaos, you do it straight away. And then you get a good outcome you don't have you know, that's that action. And that's changing what's not working. And one of the things that other people talk to me about as well is that if we're going on the wrong track, and we can see that, why do we keep doing it, like it's not going to make it better? We need to stop, evaluate and change track. And yes, it might look embarrassing, who cares if we get about an outcome. And so that's another thing people are talking about not just talking about things, but actually getting the action happening. And if it's not working the way it should look at it, and change it and do it when it's happened going wrong, not later on. So we can think of a whole lot of things even over the pandemic, things seem to be going well. And then there was a bit of a disaster. And in some cases, we just kept doing the same thing. And it didn't get better. So I think it's those sorts of skills that most people have in life, but we seem to have lost them in that political sphere, for whatever reason,Julia Zemiro  11:11  for whatever reason, who knows? Well, I would say, for whatever reason, you know, the other thing, too, is that, as independents who are coming into politics, not from the usual route, you've got nothing to lose, and everything to gain by saying, Well, I want to do this because I want to serve you. Whereas it's clear that the system in there now many people, many of them have gotten in there, because it was something that was said to them at high school that they will possibly be perfect for one day, which is to be Prime Minister or to be treasurer or to. And when that dawned on me, it was it was a revelation, because I thought But hang on, I still haven't chosen you. I still haven't chosen you to be in charge of that party, I still haven't chosen you, I will have to kind of cross my fingers and hope you'll do the right thing. So if anything on the 21st on Saturday night, the shake up is something I'm interested in, because you know a lot of people saying oh, we can't shake things up. We don't want it to be chaotic or crazy. Well, firstly, a hung parliament isn't crazy. It's a balanced Parliament as far as I'm concerned. But secondly, we need something to change. It's not you're saying when you're when you're teaching and working with a group of 30 kids, and you've got that lesson plan, and it's not working. Of course, you have to turn it and and work with what's there. And that's, that's such a skill. I think that is such a skill.Penny Ackery  12:32  Yes. And I think that, like you say that's what lack is lacking at the moment. And I'm in the position I am because I was passionate about getting some change. And I was selected from a group of four other people to be in this position by a whole couple of 100 people. And so I really don't have anything to lose, like, at the moment, I've got a garden out there that is so full of weeds. You know, and I've got a house that needs finishing. And I've got people that I haven't seen for a long time, I've got plenty of things I could do with my life. But so I've got nothing to lose if I if I am gonna win, but just in case I don't, I have another life to go to. It's not like I'm oh my gosh, I'm not the Prime Minister, I'm not in Parliament, oh, that was my dream. This is not my dream, this is what I need to do. Because I've been selected to do it by the community. And we are working as hard as we can to get there. Because it's going to make life better. It's going to make our democracy better. But it's not something that I chose to do. I've got other things I can do in my life. But I'm choosing to do this because people have chosen me to do it.Julia Zemiro  13:37  I watched one of those town halls on zoom with the four candidates, including you and you were just so succinct and clear as only a teacher can be. Because that's the other thing. You know, it's people say how do you train for politics and what schools none of them went to political school. It's, it's actually teachers who get up in front of kids and talk day after day after day after day after day after day, I think have more kind of energy and more experiencing going I don't need every single person in this room to hear what I'm saying. I just need a few of you to be you know, kind of watching. I know I can see what you're doing. I can see what you're doing. I didn't I did Rick and teachers have this incredible peripheral vision and hearing. They see everything that's happening. They choose to react to the bits they've got to react to.Penny Ackery  14:24  I love it. That's right. And I mean, it's sort of even coming to kind of and there is some conflict in Parliament at times. There are some things that are said that probably shouldn't be said. And it's as a teacher, well, you just know, like, the worst way to deal with a conflict is to continue the conflict. So just pull back and chill out. And I think that's an important skill that everybody making whatever walk of life needs to happen. Don't get hung up about what somebody's saying, pull back and reassess. And just ignore it and just go on as you're doing. And I mean, you know, as a special ed teacher, that's a great Have a skill to have. Because if you don't have itJulia Zemiro  15:04  before you were saying, some people have been coming up to you and saying, I've never come to something like this before, I've never been engaged before. So if we're waking people up a little bit, do you think once one person is woken up, that they're awake? Like, there's no going back? Do you feel like they'll keep being engaged?Penny Ackery  15:27  Look, I believe they will, because I think some people have just sort of gone along and voted and went and shatter their television screens, but not actually become actively involved in what's happening. Now, obviously, if we just have the same people voted back in again, that's going to be harder for them to get that engagement. When I get in, they will be able to engage, because I'll be there knocking on their door saying, Well, you know, come on, what do you think you need, you know, we need to work on this together. But even if it goes back to be the same old bad way we've got at the moment, I think those people that had been energized and decided there's better ways of doing things, and they have got a voice, I think they'll be banging on the door a lot more. And I think they've found that, you know, a lot of these volunteers, we've got 1000s of them have really networked together and formed groups of friendships. And knowing that there's, you know, there's a few of us that will actually go up and, and complain and say, Well, we haven't been answered, why haven't we? I think that might give people a real lift to be able to feel they can do that. Now.Julia Zemiro  16:31  What have you found surprising out there talking to people,Penny Ackery  16:34  the number of local issues that we don't know. So what I've been doing, as, I guess, educating perhaps, or passing the message around, so I visited up, they wanted me to go up to Silverdale, which is very north in the electorate, up around Warragamba Latinum. Going up there, because people were really very concerned about the lack of consultation that's happening around this new airport, the Sydney the second Sydney Airport, all the things that are happening with zoning. So people have actually built a house with a granny flat because they want to rent it out while Mum can look after the kids and it provides income. And then suddenly the rezoning happens. And they have to take the granny flat down or they're not allowed to put the second storey on. And so these people aren't being consulted. So I've been talking about that issue about the rezoning that just suddenly happens and the issues that are happening with this airport and not the lack of information about it. So hearing about that and then coming down to the Picton people who are having trouble with their bypass or haven't got one yet that's the trouble. And then going down to even Tara go which is far south here from here with their incinerator waste incinerator. So it's all the different issues that you don't realize it so it surprised me. And how many different issues are more local to that area, what has been great is to actually inform those people down, say in gunning, this is what's happening around the airport area. And let me tell you, when I go north, what's happening down here, so it's not so much surprising, but it's been it's been an experience to be able to let people know what happens on their patch is really important to them. But there's a whole lot of other things that may affect one day, especially with signing what's going to happen on their patch as well, even though at the moment might not. So maybe not so much surprising. But I've been surprised in the passion of those local people about what's happening in their area. Just two days ago, two evenings ago, I went to Crookwell Crookwell had funded over the many years and ran through voluntary assistance through a voluntary board, wonderful aged care home. And when I went into that hole to talk about what was going to happen to the aged care home because they now need to merge with United care they're going to merge with Cole was packed, there would have been a well over 200 people there. And the feeling in the room of that community, how passionate they are about keeping that aged care in their area, rather than having it closed down and move somewhere else. And the work and the effort and the volunteering that's happened to make these aged care work for so many years, and the passion they want. They have in keeping it open. That was really an eye opener rather than surprising to know that in a small community, people really work together and really care about each other. And the importance of this. There were a lot of young people there as well as older people and the nurses were there their concern about what is what is happening in aged care all over that's affecting them. That was really uplifting to know that so many communities like that can come together and really make a difference in a change.Julia Zemiro  19:48  What always astounds me with something like aged care and early childhood care is it's all of us. Like it's not something that exists over there. I'm going To be aged care in a few years, in 20 years time, you know, we are all going to be if we're lucky to live that long, we're going to be aged care. Our friends, I don't have my own children. But you know, the beginning of childcare, the beginning of how what kind of education and getting early childhood education, that is only going to help you become a better adult, a better citizen, a better voter, it just blows my mind. So when you hear all the horrible things that happened in aged care, that certainly came out during COVID. They are all our relatives, they are our friends and family. And this community is obviously and the young people too, are saying I want to be able to visit my grandmother. Every weekend, I want to know that my grandfather's being looked after, it's, I don't want to have to drive great distances to pop in and have a cup of tea. Because that's what makes us feel like a happier person and not be stressed because we've left them somewhere on the other side of the state. And there they all were. Yeah,Penny Ackery  20:59  that is so true. And that was one of the issues that was coming up that if that if you're likely it won't be closed, but there was a threat that it could be closed, which means that all those people from Crookwell, who have people that have lived in the area for decades, suddenly going off to some other aged care that really shows how important it is to keep those rural communities together. Because these people have built such an amazing thing, fundraising themselves, and volunteering on boards and keeping it all going for so long, that it's a special part of their town. And it's special to them, because it does keep their relatives, their moms, dads, grandparents, and so on, right within the community. So that community spirit is still there. And we need to be really aware that there are many, many, many regional communities that want that community spirit to see. It's almost like a big family of big extended family in these small communities. And we shouldn't be trying to make them bigger and bigger and bigger, we should acknowledge that. This is how some communities work best.Julia Zemiro  21:58  But also, if at a federal level and a state level, you allow those people to keep doing what they do so well, which is take initiative, do things try and keep things together, you work as a team, you're not having to do it all as a leader, necessarily, but you're empowering others, which is what makes us interested in being better citizens. It's what makes us interested in keeping things beautiful, green, healthy, nearby, close by connected. That's that's where I've been sort of fascinated in this whole process in the last year and because of COVID, shutting us all down and separating us all of how we all come back together again. And you know, don't get people keep saying they're disconnected from voting that citizens are disconnected from voting. They're often not disconnected from the community. But it's then how it translates to, oh, who's your voice, then that goes to camera and says, Oh, can I just tell you about Crookwell I hope people are starting to see that there's a link, you know, that there's like, there's this umbilical cord that takes you there, whether you like it or not, it's there. So if you want to complain and complain, if you're not going to do anything about it, then I can't help you.Penny Ackery  23:09  That's right, isn't it. And even, you know, I went there. And they said that I was there, I didn't speak or anything like that. I just listened and was amazed. But the number of people that came up and spoke to me about even the meal fellow from Meals on Wheels, who organizes it in Crookwell? And the saying, Look, you know, we get subsidized for seven meals, seven people, but we've actually they've actually assessed us and we've got 15. So there's an issue straightaway that go that I can take to higher levels to say, Well, you've the government has assessed that there are 15 people needing Meals on Wheels, but you're only subsidizing seven of them. So what happens to the rest of them. So it's things like that, that are really important.Julia Zemiro  23:51  And it's insulting to be ignored that way too, because it's about detail, the devil is always in the detail. We know that we know that. You see it as well in your work as a teacher. It's the little things, the details that add up to make something work. And, again, I would say any of the people who are standing as independents in their jobs and what they've done, I think more lived and work experience, then then many of the people in charge, what can people do to help at this point, Penny.Penny Ackery  24:19  So the best thing to do is to go onto my website, Penny accurate.com.au. And you can volunteer and there's spreadsheets there for volunteering for pre poll moving, or pre polling booths. And also obviously on the day itself, because like I mentioned, there's around about 80 polling booths on the day. So if we can have at least one preferably two people on each of those booths, that will be just enormously helpful and it will really, really make a difference. And so that's the best thing people can do at the moment. We're still you know, we're having people stand on the rail and road and on the sides of some of the other roads waving placards in the morning. so they can definitely volunteer for that. And that's a lot of fun doing that you meet lots of great people and and it's really uplifting when you have lots of honks and waves. And so that's a great thing. People are more than welcome to volunteer to do that. And again, they can volunteer through the website. The polling day is essential. And as many pre polling people that can come to man, the four polling booths beforehand is would be fantastic. Yeah, we've already got we've got a fair few already people volunteering, we've got a roster, but all the more the merrier. And minor just add, we have people coming from the Blue Mountains to do pre polling. We have people from Maggi coming to pre Paul, for us. We have people from Wellington, coming to pre Paul from Canberra. And these people have even been door knocking and letterboxing. So the feeling that we really, really need to change is not just within each separate electorate, but it's a broad thing. And people are wanting to help from outside to make that change happen.Julia Zemiro  25:57  That's that was my case. You know, I'm in Whitlam and you know, and I wanted to come and help because I mean, I'll say quite honestly, I don't think Angus Taylor's doing any good in that community. I don't think he understands that community. And I was interested to, the only way to learn about something is to become part of it. And doing that launch was so it was a very eye opening to me to about how it works and how I found a lot of the people, like I said in, in that basketball court, I was chatting to them beforehand, we all were we all chatting while we were waiting for it to start. And some of them were curious. Some of them were undecided. Some of them had never been to something like this before. As you've said, some knew exactly what was going on. Some was saying I've got a young person in my life, or my daughter's in her teens or my son's just turned 20. And and how did they get involved? They were hungry for information. And that's been very interesting to me. Because if people are hungry for information, we've got to give it to them. And I think what's been really dispiriting is I think we've had a government in the last 10 years that doesn't want to empower people at all to know less and less and less about what's going on. And don't ask the question, read the back page, just check out what's happening in sport and entertainment. And don't look at the rest. And our lives are just intertwined with what happens in Canberra, they just end locally in our electorate, we have to be we have to care you have to care otherwise can't complain. Sorry. That's my that's my I'd have a T shirt saying can't complain if you don't get involved.Penny Ackery  27:34  Yeah, look, that's true. And one of the other really big things that's come out through is even the volunteers people that are interested that you know, they are interested in politics, they're aware, the the lack of knowledge that people often have, about how the system works, how the actual voting works. So we've all got a bit of an idea, but I've was really informed by some of the things I've watched on YouTube about preferential voting. I thought I knew. But there's a whole lot of things wrong. Yeah, right. Okay. So what are us as volunteers and people that are talking to people on the streets, we're actually starting to educate if you like, people about what how they actually vote. And when you put a preference like what does that actually mean? Does it actually go anywhere? Or it might depend on the photo? But it's also making sure that they know which isn't the tablecloth? Or is it the little sheep? Which one are you wearing as low house with a little one, and I may not, they're educated people, but we don't, whether it's something we need to do in schools a lot more or whether it just me needs to be really hammered home when elections happen to remind people, because there's a system that works really well. But if we're informed about how we make the system work, then we empower ourselves a lot more. Acropolis the other day, I had a lady stopped me and she said, one of your door knockers came to the door, and I was in my pajamas. But my young young son came and you know, he's I think he was just turning to vote. And so this person was able to explain to him and I learned a lot she said about what you actually do on on voting day, and how you you know how the system works, but also about those other issues that I wasn't aware of, and he wasn't. So I believe we've actually not just had a an election campaign, but an education campaign toJulia Zemiro  29:22  100%. And it's got to keep going to because I remember the first time I voted, I didn't know that there was a huge sheet of paper and the small one. Now that's like a secret, isn't it? It's like a weird secret that people turn up and go, What is going is this? Is this normal that the papers this big? Why is it this big? No one really talks about it. And whenever people do talk about it in Canberra, it's the clicks. They know all about it, because they live it and breathe it and do it. Why is that not filtering down? And if people have not preferential voted properly in the past, well then what's the result of that? she'll even mean, you know, if you don't, if you're not voting in the correct way for what you might want by accident, then something's something seriously wrong. People only seem to have to talk about how to vote, when it happened when it needs to happen, rather than going learn it every year, learned every year, this is how it is Be it at school kids can tell their parents or parents don't even know. You know. And often that happens, isn't it? Doesn't it kids often are telling they're often educating their own parents about about things. So yeah, an education campaign. Absolutely. So people can get in touch get on the website, get out there. On the night itself. Where will you be? Do you think you're going to be local, with some people with your team?Penny Ackery  30:47  Well, we've been discussing that over the last few weeks. And at one stage, we thought I will make a place in the middle of the electorate and bus people in and then we thought, Well, somebody's got to drive home again, I think the lead, I think what we're going to try to do is have something in Golden, which is the biggest center down here. And then something up Camden way. And because we have so many volunteers up north down south, and I'm not because of the size of the electorate, I'd love to think I could get in and out, it takes us two and a half hours to get from Camden down to here. Don't think that's going to work. But especially because the results are going to come in pretty quick. And it's going to be number one meat anyway. Yeah, we thought it would. So we'll probably have two events, and seeing if we can work at so that we can actually people can stay in their own home state Bundanoon or a Ghanian or borrower, and they can zoom in and join the party. So we've yet to sort of work out the finer details of that. But to unlike in a smaller electorate, where you just have one and everybody pops in and it takes them half an hour to an hour. You know, we don't want people traveling late at night, you know that the polling booths shuts, and then they've got to rush down somewhere. So we're, we're looking at having two venues, and I'll probably stay down this area, I'll probably finish up there and then travel down. But that's the thought at the moment, but trying to see if we can get other people, the volunteers, they can stay in their own homes have their own little parties, but they connected to us. So yeah, I have to get my son in to do a bit of tech work their opinionJulia Zemiro  32:15  of what we all want we all Penny, I've never been more engaged in the election before. I've always been keen. I've always had little election parties and watch don't get me wrong. It's going to be a very interesting, maybe historically significant night, I think the best thing about what's happened, this election is a lot more people are asking questions and wanting to find out how this system works and how we can make it better for all of us. And that is not a glib sentence, I genuinely feel like we need to keep being involved in that. And you've been a very big part in being one of those incredible independents who have a perfectly nice life. And I'm happy doing the things they're doing, but stood up, volunteered to be one of the four was chosen and has worked incessantly since So personally, I want to thank you for just being that extraordinary. Get up and try get up and do and getting finding out so much information and bring it back to us and I have all my fingers crossed for you for the night Penny. It's been a real pleasure meeting you and being part of a little bit of a part of your of your journey.Penny Ackery  33:24  Well thanks, Julia. And I really appreciate the support that you're giving. But all the people around Australia who send me emails and best wishes and let's have a change. So far, so many people around Australia are looking for that change and all the support that you've given and other people have given. I think we were on the road to change.Julia Zemiro  33:42  Alright, fingers crossed. Thank you. Thanks, Julia.Dan Ilic  33:47  What out what up? Jay Z asked who cares? Should boy Jay Z makes noise novedge as a journalism hero, this is Julius Amira asks, Who cares?Julia Zemiro  33:57  I really want to thank penny for speaking with me today. It was actually her birthday. She told me at the end of the call. She had her brothers and family coming to visit for a barbecue that day. Also, Penny's husband, John after a long illness died a couple of weeks ago, and she's continuing with her campaign. And I really think that speaks to her commitment and energy and strength to keep on going. And she says she has said on on on her social media that it's something that he absolutely wanted her to keep going with. So and I think it's important to to tell you that Penny's campaign is crowd funded primarily by people from across the human electorate. She's not accepting funds from climate 200 As many of the Indies are, or get up or of course, she's not accepting anything from oil and gas companies or pharmaceuticals or any other special interest group. I thought it was worth pointing that out. And if you want to help, especially on polling day that's absolutely needed. So go to her website. To me, the whole election period has been a she says not just an election campaign, but an education campaign. Are you shocked? I am. I'm shocked by how many people don't quite know how the system works. And we really hopefully, will change that a bit more in the future because that's crazy. We should know a lot more about how the system works. All right. That's podcast number five. One more to go. CCTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear 📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ SEE OUR LIVE SHOW: https://comedy.com.au/tour/a-rational-fear-live/10 Years Of A Rational Fear. Sydney Opera House. June 4th 2022-----------------------------------------------------G'day Fearmongers,Thrilled to bring you the A Rational Fear LIVE show we did last month at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival.It is a long and very enjoyable show featuring.Alice FraserGabbi BoltDane SimpsonGrace TameZoe DanielVidya RajanLewis HobbaDan IlicDJ Andy McClellandIt maybe one of our best shows we've ever done. Thanks to everyone who came along, and we hope to see you at our 10 year show at the Sydney Opera House on June 4th.🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear During the election, your support is more crucial than ever! Thank you FEARMONGERS!If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261 -------------------------------Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.Lewis Hobba  0:10  thank you so much for coming here. This is amazing. OhDan Ilic  0:13  my god. Wow. When our producer said do you want the 200 seats, the 300 seat or the 800 seat, I said, give us the 800 seat. We'll fill it almost. AndLewis Hobba  0:26  I said give me the MCGDan Ilic  0:29  right tonight shows a bit of a different kind of show. If you come to Comedy Festival. This is a podcast recording I'm sorry.Lewis Hobba  0:35  It basically just means fewer jokes. Lower the expectation,Dan Ilic  0:40  but you get some discounts on a great mattress. It's gonna be great. We're gonna put on a great show regardless, but you have to do your job as a great audience. Can you be a great audience? Fantastic. So part of that, you know, laughing clapping cheering whistling all of that. That's good stuff. That is good stuff but heckling is out. What'sLewis Hobba  0:57  the opinion on like, flares out? No flare, pyrotechnics of any kind.Dan Ilic  1:02  No piratesLewis Hobba  1:03  weaponsDan Ilic  1:04  Bad. Very bad unless theyLewis Hobba  1:07  have to get rid of some stuff.Andrew McClelland  1:09  Twain What about Twain,Dan Ilic  1:10  Shania Twain. Perfect. So heckling is a little tricky. If you do hecho you'll be removed faster than a liberal who's won pre selection? Who made the Lebanese so you'll be out you'll be straight out of there, straight out of there. Now if you think someone next year is going to do something, just give them a stern look. The kind of look my mum gives her friends when she's got to explain what I do for a jobLewis Hobba  1:36  that you do the tree brothers are so much better than you.Dan Ilic  1:38  I know. They are really lovely. So we're making this a safe space for you and our people on stage. Can you do that for me? Right. We also going to cover some pretty tricky topics. Okay, so and we've got a lot of foul language. A lot of adult words will be flung at you but there will be puns as well. The worst kind of should give you full warning and that Alice Fraser is here. She's brought all the puns she has. If something does trigger you something gives you an easy feelings. Sophie Minetti is over at the sound desk over there. She's waving by the sound desk. If you need to talk to someone during the show. Go have a chat with Sophie or afterwards as well. We've got a place you guys can go. All right, great. What else we're gonna do here Oh, big thank you to our Patreon supporters. Here. We got one right here. Thank you, Tim. Thank you.Lewis Hobba  2:26  I feel this like like when you get on a plane and they're like oh, big thank you to Oh, Qantas oneworld customers canDan Ilic  2:35  see more merch here. You're a Patreon supporter. Oh, fantastic. Oh my God.Lewis Hobba  2:42  Is there anyone here tonight who's never heard of the podcasts and doesn't know why they're here?Dan Ilic  2:49  Well, you're fine. You're about to find out sign up to get a poster. I certainly get the show. Right. Let'sLewis Hobba  2:55  do it. Let's get the show started. The other quick thing is right at the start, Dan likes to do three jokes. And there are varying quality. But I would really appreciate it if for the benefit of those listening at home. You laugh so loudly. He he really need his brothers are so much better than he really needs this.Dan Ilic  3:16  Thank you, Louis. All right. We're recording this episode of irrational fear on Wonderland in the Kulin nation, sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's stop the show.Alice Fraser  3:31  Let everybody go gang prepping for irrational fear with grace to making the transition to a comedy stage. Any advice video?Vidya Rajan  3:38  Yes, Grace. First, you've got to just start by really trusting the stage you're on. I know. It can be really scary. always like, Oh my God, is it gonna collapse? But chances are it won't even just creak and fall under you.Grace Tame  3:50  Yeah, right. Well, I have been on a few stage just before.Vidya Rajan  3:56  Yeah, yeah. But this is a comedy stage and much like the comedians on those stages. They're very unstable on the inside.Alice Fraser  4:04  Any advice for hecklers Gaby?Gabbi Bolt  4:06  It's what I mean, it's, it's a horrible person yelling horrible things at you. And we don't know what happens. And I know that that might not have happened to you before. But like, it's just you know, it's a part of the comedy world, you know.Unknown Speaker  4:22  I reckon I've beenGrace Tame  4:24  a wreck and I've been abused before.Vidya Rajan  4:28  Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. No, of course.Gabbi Bolt  4:32  Of course you have.Alice Fraser  4:33  And of course, saying stuff on stage. That's an important part of this right? Often I find it's funny because it's true. So you might just want to go on stage and just say the truth.Grace Tame  4:44  Look, I'll give it a crack. Trust that the audience on your side and yeah, believe in yourself, I suppose. That's actuallyUnknown Speaker  4:55  really good advice.Vidya Rajan  4:57  Good way of looking at things I might just read that kit. Oh, yeah. Good advice. I think that could really help us Yeah.Simon Chilvers  5:07  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks. And section of rational here recommended listening by emoji.Dan Ilic  5:22  Tonight, Morrison receives a hostile reception at a new costume pub, to which Scott Morrison said I reject the premise of the statement. It's the same kind of reception I get everywhere. And the Australian Grand Prix returns to Melbourne for the first time in two years. When asked how excited that the race is back in Australia January, Ricardo said and the election has finally been cooled. But we're running out of time for Peter Dutton to call a party remaining to roll Scott Boras says My God, this is irrational.Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host, former pre selected liberal candidate for Cooktown illage. And you're listening to irrational fear at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival, the petri dish of Australian culture and COVID-19 So thank you for coming here and risking your life for a comedy podcast really appreciate that. This is the podcast that takes the scariest news and laughs in its face much the same way. Scott Morrison laughs in the face of a Commonwealth integrity commission with no retrospective powers. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. Every few weeks our first fear monger starts a new satirical comedy podcast from the bugle the gargle tea with Alice and the Joe Rogan experience experience. It's Alice Fraser. I haven't listened to the Joe Rogan experience experience. What's it all about?Alice Fraser  7:04  Oh, I think we live too scared of Joe Rogan. I think he's just a perfectly nice comedy meathead who accidentally got caught in a toxic spill at the masculinity factory.Dan Ilic  7:12  And she's the lyrical satirical miracle that isn't here to the empirical let's get him out. Gabby, this is your first ever Melbourne Comedy Festival as a solo artist and you're already selling out what's your secret? MoneyGabbi Bolt  7:26  laundering mostly. Works well.Dan Ilic  7:30  And he's a military man who just got married. Sorry, people. He's off the market. He's the purveyor of Wagga. Wagga is fine. His dad jokes. It's Dane Simpson. Now, I actually got that wrong. Sorry, Dane. You are the finest purveyor of jokes about your dad specifically. Does he mind?Dane Simpson  7:50  He's too stupid understand.Dan Ilic  7:53  And each morning he siphons the blood of 322 year olds to keep himself fresh for the National Youth broadcaster. It's tripled J's last remaining geriatric millennial Louis harbor. Lewis, how do you keep up with the Gen Zed logo? The Gen Zed lingo?Lewis Hobba  8:12  Do I keep up with the Gen Zed lingo? Yeah, I mean, I like to just use it with lingo from my own time to make it easy. I'll say something like ah, have you? Pardon me boys? Is that the Chattanooga Choo it's litDan Ilic  8:28  and he's immunity musical genius who is genetically gifted it is Andy McClellan. Thank you.Andrew McClelland  8:35  I just here to promote my extremely nice Gilbert and Sullivan themes Comedy Festival. Come along,Dan Ilic  8:41  and they're a changemaker cage Rattler, Dragon Slayer and she represented Australia in the 50 meter side I its face time.Race How does one train for the 50 meter side? IGrace Tame  9:05  well, like the legend Don Bradman, I practice against a wall every day.Dan Ilic  9:11  Coming up later in the show, we are Zoe Daniel if this sign is big enough, or legal enough, but first a message from this week's sponsor. Now it is not cheap to rent out the forum so I hope you'll forgive our sponsor for tonight. It's called oil cares. A petroleum advocacy group dedicated to letting you know that oil well cares. Please welcome their spokesperson Vidya Rajan for a quick word on women apparently VidyaVidya Rajan  9:46  Yes, Dan oil cares about you about me and especially about women. Oil loved woman. Patriarchy has kept both oil Well as woman in ground for too long. I'm mushy. Hey, did you know BP actually stands for boss pussy? Squad? Yes. Goals? Yes. Grace tame the anti fracking lobby. Look, we love all sis and trans continental pipelines for sis and trans oilDan Ilic  10:37  Thank you Good job. Well, folks, the election is finally upon us. Today the Prime Minister and prominent gas man, Scott Morrison, called the election at the last possible date he legally could, which continues to prove just how this government is run by the Engadine doctrine. That is the principle of Miring and indecision until the march of time forces action upon you. You know, likelike shooting yourself in an egg in a McDonald's.Lewis Hobba  11:13  Can you help yourself? Everyone got a dad? IDan Ilic  11:14  know. He's like, everyone's got it. He's the edge he makes shitting. Yeah, I had to explain that for my dad who lives. I don't know, if you agree. This is how the whole country is run. Everything seems to be done in a hurry at the last minute.Lewis Hobba  11:27  It's not how I remember I seem to remember the vaccines arriving on time. Masks arriving on time, people whose housesDan Ilic  11:35  burned down and got immediately rebuilt only to be washed away again. Yeah,Dane Simpson  11:39  I find the most unbelievable part of this is that your dad listens. Like, you do not have supportive parents.Dan Ilic  11:47  I got an email today. This is I told everyone backstage, I got an email today from dad saying I just listened to the last three irrational fears. And I'm like, Well,Lewis Hobba  11:55  I've been doing it for 10 years dad started a podcast boy, would he listen.Andrew McClelland  12:02  You can quit comedy now that you have parental approval.Dan Ilic  12:05  That's it. I'm gonna become a lawyer. But tonight, I thought we'd start with the story of how many of you in the room helped me for Scott Morrison to do something at the last minute, let me take you back to September, a time before the last five one in 100 year floods. It was a month out from cop 26 in Glasgow, the UN climate conference, we wanted to take a rational fear there and put shows in Glasgow in a pub like we do. But someone forgot to reply to emails from Pfizer, and we just couldn't manage to do it. So we're all stuck at home like many of you, and so I wonder what could I do from there? How could how could we have an impact from there at these conferences? So I don't know if you know, but at these conferences Australia is like enemy number one. We are like the Barnaby Joyce, but of the world. We're the third largest exporter of fossil fuels behind Saudi Arabia and Russia. So naturally, we gang up with them to try and sabotage every international agreement that kind of ever comes out of these climate talks.Lewis Hobba  13:04  You guys have probably heard all this and all the other comedy shows in Melbourne, I imagine.Dan Ilic  13:10  The world basically the world hates us, right? And what's more, Scott Morrison was actually going to go like he actually wasn't gonna go to this conference because, quote, it would disrupt his ability to engage in my normal duties as prime minister. We wouldn't want that. Yeah. Which is so weird. It's so weird, like, doing something would prevent him from doing nothing. It's aAlice Fraser  13:32  weird because he enjoys being far away when something's going wrong.Dan Ilic  13:37  Exactly. So I wanted to send a message to the world at this cop that, you know, the people that represent Australia at these conferences don't necessarily represent Australians. So I bought this billboard, it cost $12,225 somewhere in the back streets of Glasgow, but put a crowdfunding campaign together. And I'm sure many people donated to here. Anyone donated to Joe keeper? Thank you. This is like, I feel like I'm reporting to the board of directors.Lewis Hobba  14:05  Which of you gave us money?Dan Ilic  14:08  So we could put three bits of artwork on there. So we did cuddle the koala before we make them extinct. I know some people cried. Some people laughed. That's our brand. Australia did zero by 2300. And prominent climate economist Catan Joshi reached out he said, Did you steal that from my tweet because that's actually where we're going to end up because we're not reducing emissions fast enough. And then I put up your own truth for billboards. Someone who donated $4,000 to the billboard could actually buy a truthful billboard of their own. So at 6:30am on the 27th of September, I put up this crowdfunding campaign at 8:30am I got $12,000. That's amazing. And the money kept coming. And then also somebody bought the billboard famous Australian celebrity bought it and they DM to me their requestLewis Hobba  14:54  and I told you not to tell anyone I bought that.Dan Ilic  14:58  Richard Wilkins yeah look sorry that our government bullshitting kind regards Australia overwhelming majority of residents. Is there a poll we could refer to? And of course, there is a poll. So that was amazing. So this told me three things people want climate action. I'm going to need more billboards. And I'm going to need bigger billboards. So I booked the biggest billboard in Times Square. It's so big. They call it Godzilla.Lewis Hobba  15:28  That's how big it is. And weirdly, he just was like we need to make sure people see black widowUnknown Speaker  15:38  for the Marvel UniverseLewis Hobba  15:40  I'm like I thought it was meant to be climate change. He's like no scarred your hands has been overlooked for too long. Just been relegated to the back of the Marvel movies Magana the frontDan Ilic  15:48  a cause $100,000 an hour but I did in New York do we did it for 16 for 10 minutes, which was great. So we got the artwork together. Now Andres who is in the audience tonight, put some of this together. Thank you, Andres.Look at that incredible right. And then this one is actually came up. Gabby actually came up with this one.Unknown Speaker  16:13  I can't take all the credit.Dan Ilic  16:14  Thank you, Daddy. That was very good caller file dandy. A comic con parody, but Cali con with special guest Matt Canavan, winner of Best cold cosplay 2020 This one from Sean Marsh, we're rich and sunshine wind and climate denial. Then I turned to one of my tweets into a billboard of the Australian government against humanity. And and my favorite flop is over here during a deadly pandemic former commissioned to fix the problem by building a gas pipeline. I'm pretty sure that's not how you fucking do it.Lewis Hobba  16:47  At this point, the only billboards in the world were owned by Dan Ilic and Franco QOTSA.Dan Ilic  16:54  bhi pharma, and this one too? Yeah, look sorry about our government. So we got the wonderful apology there for our celebrity. So the invoices paid hundreds of Aziz RSVP, the press was invited. And also on Twitter, Russell Crowe, cch CNN, he said, Hey, Jake Tapper, have you seen this? And Jake Tapper said I had not Russell Crowe. Thanks Thank you Russell dry.Gabbi Bolt  17:22  That hyphen is so aggressive.Dan Ilic  17:26  October 15 9:45am. Me and my partner were by our TV trying to find the right webcam to watch this happen. We couldn't quite find the right one. We saw this one and then we saw this one this giant billboard is incredible. So these were some of the other artwork look like from the street? Absolutely amazing. And here is my favorite billboard missing person last seen doing nothing answers to scomo and the cold lovey. That was me on CNN, you know, no big deal, whatever. So it's not going to Glasgow. Yes. October 15. Well, 9:45am No. 2pm Yes.Also, the clean grumbled about him not going so I was probably the clean but you know, whatever. We fucking made him go well done to you. Thanks, everyone. All right. So we had we had some money left over. So we upped our billboards in Glasgow, we got some ones by the freeway on the way to the convention center, some others in the suburbs of Glasgow. This one is in Armadale and Barnaby Joyce's electorate. And what's great is it's right next to the MCAS one. And everyone sees it I get people it's still up because no one wants this billboard. But people text me all the time. It's great. Horsham, Torquay. And we bought some billboards around. Scott Morrison's electric This is in cook it says visit the old bread stumps of Tasmania. Yes. Pete from Tasmania. Give it a round of applause Yes. Crisis from Tasmania.Unknown Speaker  19:10  We're all here tonight. That meansDan Ilic  19:15  and we got one in the Sutherland Shire Hawaiian hideaway for when things get too hot at home. bushfire sale now on this one in Engadine Welcome to Engadine the place where Scott Morrison last did anything. And this is my favorite one. A group of engineers and doctors got together and said Please can you do a billboard about the future of jobs? We're so depressed and yeah, I can do a billboard about the future jobs and young people. That's fine. So here's this one. Oh, hang on. Oh, sign up there. Oh, I fucked it. I deleted it. Sorry. But anyway,Lewis Hobba  19:49  you could explain it. It was really great.Andrew McClelland  19:54  You describe it. Yeah. Visual. does describe it now. Oh, yeah.Dan Ilic  19:59  Okay, sure. So I had a picture of a young girl, and she was in a Do you wantLewis Hobba  20:03  to act in?Andrew McClelland  20:05  Numbers? Perhaps? Oh, yeah,Lewis Hobba  20:06  I'll be the adorable Young.Dan Ilic  20:08  mortarboard.Lewis Hobba  20:09  Can you be a movie adorable young girlDan Ilic  20:11  adorable young girl looking up. And it said by 2035, Cassie will be qualified to put politicians in jail for historical climate crimes.Alice Fraser  20:23  Can I? Can I just say, Dan, I just say so many people. When you talk about climate change they got I feel really helpless. I feel like I can't make a difference. Right? And if we look at this man who cannot even put up the slide that he wanted to put out a massive fucking difference in Australian politics. If he can do it, you can do.Dan Ilic  20:46  I'm so glad Alice told you the punchline of my story, because he's waiting hold on for my Melbourne friends. Now, out of home media. They said yes, you can have a billboard in Hawthorne. But that particular billboard is for non political messaging. And I said, Can I sell a standing desk? And she said, Yes, you can sell a standing desk. So I put up this billboard in Hawthorne that says, Hey, big space. It's time to buy a standing desk, because you're about to lose your seatwith with the hope, with the hope that no one would ever dare write Josh next to it, because that would make it political. And we can't have that someone didn't write Josh. Thankfully, instead, they wrote Frydenberg. And it makes it so much more sinister. Like, hey, it's time to buy a standing desk because you're about to lose your seat.So Media gave me a call. After a month of that being up December, they gave me a call. They said Dan, that billboard you put up with had complaints? The billboard is now political. And I said no, it's not. It's just defaced. And they said, Well, unfortunately, it is political. And we're gonna have to pull it down. I assumed it was the AC and I thought, Oh, well, the AC they're doing the due diligence. Fair enough. It doesn't have an authorized on yeah, get it. We're just making jokes. We're not a campaigner. And I said, Well, okay, fair enough. Can we replace it? Yes. Can we can replace it. Then they said no, you can't replace it. But it has been replaced since by this. I reckon that was the bloke who complained. Josh Frydenberg face now replaces our billboard, which is pretty astounding. That'sLewis Hobba  22:56  pretty annoyingly. He is one has just gotten back in the right place. At the top.Dan Ilic  23:03  Exactly, yeah. So Oh, media. I had another running with them. I wanted to put up a billboard in Hinkler in Bundaberg. This is Keith Pitzer electorate. He is the is the resources minister. He just basically his job is to get as much coal out as possible. And he was famous for being on Sky News last year for not being able to admit on TV that batteries could possibly store power from solar and wind. He couldn't say it on TV. He couldn't even say the word battery. So I pitched this to out of home media. I said, How about this? Hey, Keith batteries give you power in the dark with a picture of a vibrator. And they said no. To political plus, it's got a sex toy. No. I was like, Okay, thank you media. How about this? Did you know batteries can give you power in the dark with a flashlight? And they said no. To political or no. Right? And then I pitched him this I was like, I'm like, at this point. I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna fucking buy a billboard out of spite. So I said, How about this batteries? Wow. They said. They said they said yes. They said yes. But for keen eyed observers out there. There it is all the look. The only people I was very disappointed about it. But the people who were happy where the battery store that it wasbut the keen eyed observers out there, you may recognize that also, it wasn't a flashlight. It was a it was a flashlight. Yeah. So climate change, as Alan said, can make you feel extremely powerless. Right and, and this is a strange moment we're in. We're 45 days away from when we all can be a little more powerful. And I want to just implore you to please Leave this election. Tell your friends and yourself. Don't vote for candidates funded by fossil fuels rationalUnknown Speaker  25:12  you need to continue to run your coal fired power stations for as long as you possibly can. Your fear is over. Gotta beGabbi Bolt  25:25  high. Yeah, no, the keyboards just a prop. Makes me look good. I don't actually play it at all. Recently, Scott Morrison said another great gems of advice now that we're on the topic. So if you can't afford to rent a house, buy one. I said no, that's stupid. So I've come up with a new plan. So just sorry. In the front of this area, hands up if you're a home owner. Oh my god. Sorry, I'd have to take a moment. Sorry, Andy. Do I look? Do I look okay? Yeah, here's the smell horrible.Andrew McClelland  26:03  You got a nose ring. Is that intentional?Gabbi Bolt  26:05  Oh? No, no. Okay. All right. I have a pitch for all of you. You're all really beautiful. Are any of you going away? Anyone nice young disposable income having things like yourselves. I'm sure there's only a matter of time until you plan a holiday and when you do I want you to take my pitch on board. Okay, DJ I'm readyVidya Rajan  26:43  they fired me from all the clubs Jesus ChristGabbi Bolt  26:57  been waited so long so let me know ready hikesI want to take around.Unknown Speaker  27:11  I'm going to come and sayGabbi Bolt  27:16  don't think about it too hard. That's the right house.Unknown Speaker  27:23  Let me sit in your house. Let me pretend that I own this $5,000 couch. I'm gonna write in your sheets 10,000 Cows sitting in your house so I gotta keep my options free. I'll never penetrate the housing market. So a lender asked, penetrate me.Gabbi Bolt  28:01  I'm squatting at my mom's rich friend's house. It's like a luxury b&b. Being a generationUnknown Speaker  28:12  has never been so sexy to me. I'mGabbi Bolt  28:14  about to say oh my god. Is that a double door fridge holy shit in this house.Zoe Daniel  28:25  With a built in ice dispenser.Gabbi Bolt  28:30  House you've got a dishwasher egg on no black cold in the bathroomthank you for contributing to my depositAlice Fraser  28:56  against Islam as a disease we need to vaccinate ourselves against that. I'm not selling a lot of tickets. This year. The Melbourne International Comedy Festival is not a flyer outside the town hall and Facebook ads do not work. Anyone here from a Facebook ad? Yeah, I made my point just I wanted to talk about social media and propaganda was looking at the online messaging from Ukraine and Russia and made me think we should talk about cyber warfare and propaganda like a proper hefty subject difficult to address properly with the tools available to a comedian. And then Elon Musk bought 9% of Twitter on the premise that he is a free speech absolutist. And I found my in Elon Musk a man with the face of a police sketch of a manand the noble ambition that everyone should be able to speak as freely as him the richest man in the world without being subjected to rudeness from plebs who don't understand your noble ambition to call As the stars for humanity sorry humanity he is a free speech absolutist to do him credit I believe that he is he has ethical principles. I think he thinks he's a free speech absolutist. I'm sure he thinks that if you throw all the ideas in the world into a Thunderdome, the one that ends up beating all the other ones to death with its bare fists is the best idea. Of course he believes the person who ends up with the most money in the world deserves to get there by virtue because people say they're a free speech absolutist I have friends who say that I'm a believer in free speech myself, I believe in the right to offend because I know people who are offended by women talking or men crying or non binary people having hair cuts, I I even believe people have a right to offend me. I love nothing more than a good faith disagreement with people who are willing to admit they're wrong. Because I'm right. I'm talking about people who think anyone should be able to say anything because it's just words you know, it's just words, the words the one thing that's made us as a species capable of communicating, cooperating building complex machinery, and each individual having access to more information than we could acquire in a lifetime by a process of licking stuff and seeing if it was poison. You know, just words. For all the free speech absolutist surrounding the simple clarity of that ethical stance, I see very few of them discussing the fact that the moment you have an algorithm in play, you do not have free speech. We have to stop blaming people for falling for the propaganda that they see online and start holding to account the invisible hand of a market that keeps offering us shiny perfumed testicles on a plate and telling us their pearls it's not your weird aunt's fault that she keeps getting served quote information from quote doctors who quote have the quote cure for quote lizard virus. It's the fucking algorithm has decided she should be offered things she likes based on things she already likes, like a Tinder date who read you like long walks on the beach and brought eight barrels of sand to the date. I have a daughter now a whole fresh daughter and I'm terrified of the algorithms she's gonna be go straight into the algorithm. She's gonna watch Teletubbies at the age of three. And by the time she's 25 She'll be watching telly Toby's 142 We already have Fast and Furious nine. And it's amazing. We're the species that invented Russian Roulette let us take a fucking risk. Okay, sorry is gonna lead to boycotting Russia were the species that invented roulette. Let us take it like there's nothing you could have had before. You had an olive that would tell you you would love and olives. No one was like, Oh, you love too much salt and the texture of pickled rubberbands you love and all and no, you just tried one one time and it was good. Fuck the algorithm telling you things that you're going to like as though it knows you. Right? Let us gamble. That's the thing. Why were people we will always have these people do things we always have gambling and sex work and nonsense. We love nonsense. My issue is when a machine comes in and strips away all of the checks and balances and tips the slope so far downwards, that normal people can't possibly resist the worst distortions of their own characters. So it's not enough to have a card table. You've got to hide the clocks and have free drinks and flashing lights and law old people into poker machines at their local pubs. That's what the social media algorithm is. So the next time you want to blame someone for retweeting an article that they saw online and someone goes Oh, it's just words it's just free speech. It is not free speech if there is an algorithm at play, and Elon Musk can go fuck himself Thank youDan Ilic  33:38  Alice. Has anyone on this panel here ever been subjected to like vicious or unfounded rumors on on the internet Dad I'll take this one. NeverGrace Tame  33:55  Twitter into a year ago and I genuinely thought when I was hearing people talk about Elon Musk I thought he was I thought heUnknown Speaker  34:03  was a malasLewis Hobba  34:08  and as your opinion che Yeah.Dan Ilic  34:14  I would love to see you know how chemists warehouse has like, like fragrances for everyone. I would love to see one and chemists warehouse Elon Musk is one I'd love to see it. Not smell it not smell it. Yeah. Now what's the easiest way to reckon to teach your friends and family media literacy? Like, do you have to sit down with your parents to say I'm sorry, no. That picture while lead isn't going to make you rich?Gabbi Bolt  34:39  I just had the luxury of shoddy not and giving it to my brother to fold out but I've never had to talk to my parents about technology once so sorry, Sam.Alice Fraser  34:48  My dad's all over it. He's He's like all over technology. He's over technology the way a boomer it's like loves an iPad loves being on speaker, but like he does he does know some media literacy. Well, you know, Twitter is also he was the head of the media and communications Law Center at the Union.Dan Ilic  35:07  That helps, yeah, you're dead like that.Dane Simpson  35:09  I just genuinely I thought that there was this rumor about being online and it was just like because I have a GoogleDan Ilic  35:16  Alert. For me, right.Dane Simpson  35:20  Arrogant superstar is talking about David Simpson. Superstar basketball player is now and I'm like, not not, not not not. Not not. There's another Dane Simpson.Dan Ilic  35:33  Ah, I, my online doppelganger. We share the same name. His name is genuine, which he used to be the creative director in LA and now he is the creative director of Mehta. And I don't know what I'm going to do. You will be the first to know about it.Lewis Hobba  35:55  Yeah, my doppelgangers. My name is actually Lewis Hamilton. Pava. Right. Do you like that's not a joke? That's genuine. Yeah. And so a lot of fuck, I'll just say it a lot of my like secret social media accounts and Lewis Hamilton, which started before kind of Lewis Hamilton. Like, obviously, it was good, but he wasn't like Lewis Hamilton. And now I'm just really angry at house except like, there was a time I was gonna change my name to Lewis Hamilton. I was like, I'm gonna be the most famous Lewis Hamilton the rebel. So the Grand Prix is actually particularly triggering for me.Dan Ilic  36:27  Everyone, please give it up for Dane Simpson.Dane Simpson  36:37  Take thisLewis Hobba  36:38  liking. Yeah. All right.Dane Simpson  36:40  This is gonna be a little bit heavy, but you do have permission to laugh fuck.Dan Ilic  36:44  Yeah. Don't worry, don't just the weight of 60,000 years of your people's culture. Yeah, right here. Yep.Dane Simpson  36:53  I'm Ernie Dingo. And it does contain images of people who may have deceased just for the mob in the room. Depending on when you're listening to this could even be fucking me. All right. aren't dead Simpson, Australia's greatest comedian and liar. Okay, so we are going to be talking about a very heavy topic today. Oh, also. Yeah, I'm from the Camilla nation. an Aboriginal guy. Milroy people. My people come from Walgett which is epic New South Wales. Little Town. So 80% Aboriginal 20% Cops now. I know like both my parents are Aboriginal. Yeah, I know that I don't look the army and that's okay. How that works is my granddad on my mom's side was a white fella. Right? So I don't know how that makes me Indian.Just every time I come to Melbourne, I'm constantly telling people I'm not Indian. I'm Aboriginal. There's even people in this room still looking at me. I think he drove us here. I didn't. Different people. All right. I'm gonna be talking today about Australia Day. Right? And the problem with Australia Day. Obviously, there's a group of people who can't celebrate on Australia Day. And those people are people who have to work the next day. You hear? They're always complaining? Oh, you should come out. Have you? Not? I've got a work tomorrow. Loser, right? There's also other people who can't celebrate on the day. Oh, that's right, First Nation people. But why? Why can't they just join in? Straight A's is about drinking beers, having a sausage and wearing the fucking flag as a cake. I did some research into this. And I tried to figure out what how do we actually celebrate the very first Australia Day and I watched this documentary called lousy little six minutes, I encourage you to go and watch it. It was made in 1983. And it talked about the Australian government and their idea when they first ever came up with celebrating Australia in 1938. Here's a little snippet from that documentary.Andrew McClelland  39:19  Film loadingUnknown Speaker  39:24  failure today, among the nation, we are building a great industrial civilization on this primary bases and developing a new race a new force in the culture of mind and body. In this Sunnyland both build the racial physique equal to any in the world. Australian history already bears the base and re of glory won by our volunteers on the battlefields of the Great Wall. Yet only 150 years ago, Australia was still a nameless Island inhabited by savages to mop this cloud record of progress. The government of New South Wales decided to celebrate with three months of I don't prey on Carnival.Dane Simpson  40:01  What a lovely celebration. Yeah, 150 years ago, a nameless Island celebrated just full of savages, right? So it's, it's weird that Aboriginal people would want to get involved and celebrate on this day. Also, the documentary goes on to show the actual day and what they did to celebrate it. It's the straight government they wouldn't have done anything crook. It's not like they do like a fucking reenactment or anything like that. Taking over Australia. It's not like that, get Aboriginal people and starve them, put them in jail and threaten them if they didn't go along with what they had planned. Actually, that's exactly what they're talking toUnknown Speaker  40:43  three flames into life as the dramatic scenes of the first landing. Duck gonna keep being acted as bomb go. With the the native gathering in corroborate to ward off the invaders, just as they then did. In the face of medicine savages, the white man had bumped up the shore of the new land. There any likelihood of an ambush? So a handful of Englishmen took possession of the continent, a vast unknown primeval land. Well, fuck,Dane Simpson  41:14  right. It's like all Aboriginal people. Why don't you just want to join in and celebrate with us? That's weird. You should just do it. Right? But these are the foundations that we actually celebrate Australia are on. And it's not like you can sort of well, I suppose you can have the argument. Yeah, but we don't celebrate that today. It's not like the Australian government today does like a reenactment. Scott Morrison did an NPM replica to sail around Australia to mark 250 years since Captain Cook's arrival. It cost 6.7 million to do this as part of a $60 million dollar budget. 10 million more than the bushfires by the way. Crazy, crazy crazy. Ah, this is a side note. Actually, this is more for a rational fee, guys. This is part of the document as well. And I just wanted to point this out. 1938 there was Aboriginal protesters were getting some traction, and we're starting to get rights for Aboriginal people. But the Australian press put a little backstop in that and held it off for another 29 years Aboriginal people didn't get rights until 1967. And they played some propaganda 1938 What was the most biggest fear that people had? It'sUnknown Speaker  42:25  free, perhaps in the past, to free. Now, where could this be better illustrated that in Sydney's great domain, it is here the free speech has been allowed to all we had a visit from one who started this craze on a pleasure cruise, he said are getting dimension that it was a pleasure cruise organised by the government of Germany, even away in the little known interior. Amongst the primitive mediums there are townships where agents of Hitler wait and plan for the downfall of a country that has sheltered them and given them security.Dane Simpson  42:58  Kyla had some pretty out there tactics. You know what you shoot to get on the good princess Ruby and go to Adelaide. Get your way to Alice Springs and get this guy on board. And yeah, we'll defeat Australian from the inside. Yeah, yeah. It was weird, too. Because he looks so happy without filming him. And they're like, Can we film it? Yeah, absolutely. Wait, you're not gonna say I work with the Nazis, right? Getting back to so where do we go to from here? What do we do about these foundations? Do we do we change the date? That's a popular thing. Should we change the date? If we do change the date? What should we change it to? suggestion that always comes up? We should change it to May 8. Because that's mate. Right? That's cool. I get that. The only problem with that. It's easily from the wingless birthday if we make it that we're gonna piss off all the other Wiggles. Yeah, so what do we do? What about a sporting hero? We'll make it a sporting heroes birthday. They're problematic aren't they? Moving on music. Let's let's get a musician. shanaka Let's get somebody that we all know somebody that we all love somebody that we can all get around somebody wholesome. Benli. Absolutely. We all love Bentley. Let's make it his birthday. When's his birthday? September 11.Maybe not. Also, if we do put it on somebody's birthday, then we're taking away their special day, aren't we? And stealing something that isn't ours is how we goWe should start fresh start fresh reset, right and what date is better to start fresh and reset? is the first of January. That's when we should be doing it. If we do it the first of January we move New Year's Day to the second of January makes us unique. Right? We get a day off. Day off or Australia Day, then we've got New Year's Day on the second of January day off. Do you know who's happy everyone? Everyone, including people who had to work the next day thank you everyone.Unknown Speaker  45:42  We're really good at Dean stuff up in Australia and making sure it can feel the rest of the worldDan Ilic  45:53  it strikes me there's a day that's about to become available. I just don't know how many more birthdays The Queen has.And administratively, it's already day off. Do you guys have any suggestions for daysAlice Fraser  46:16  Tuesday's? Every Tuesday losers punch a little it'll be fun.Lewis Hobba  46:23  I mean, September 11 is no good. But September 12. Like pick it back up again.Andrew McClelland  46:29  We could move to Halloween do it then Halloween in springtime never works. Or I told me flowers and bees and lovely things. When unless you're allergic to bees. Yeah, Halloween.Dan Ilic  46:38  Halloween is good. I think that'd be a problem for some football players around there. Well, they may dress up as Yeah. what's your what's your ultimate suggestion? Do you think that ultimate suggestionDane Simpson  46:48  is to first first of January. It's Federation as well in 1901. For the people who care about that stuff. I don't.Alice Fraser  46:57  You were saying it would ruin someone's birthday if it was on their birthday. I'm already a twin. I don't have a birthday of mine. You can have my birthday.Dan Ilic  47:04  Thank you for being so generous Alice. Well, it's due to common irrational fear. We've got great time Lewis harbor and Zoe Daniel. But before we do that, we've just got another quick message from the show sponsor oil cares for a quick word on race apparently. VideoVidya Rajan  47:23  That's right. Oil loves you and me and also it loves rice. I love rice. black, brown, yellow. We love Hey, have you heard of Martin Luther Kingdom of Saudi Arabia aha, that's right. We only source our product from countries of color that you didn't think about I have a dream that one day all oils will matter.Dan Ilic  48:07  Thank you. Thank you oil forum Please give it up for Grace time.Unknown Speaker  48:35  ADIAGrace Tame  48:40  Look, before I get started. I just gotta give a couple of shout outs is Lily here. Did she make it? No. Okay.Unknown Speaker  48:48  You win some you lose some.Grace Tame  48:51  I do have to give a shout out. One of my best friends Georgie is standing in the wings. She is the pond clean.Unknown Speaker  48:58  Yeah, come out Georgie. Georgie, Georgie.Grace Tame  49:07  And also my partner Max who's my rock and poor old Max has been an audience a while I've been going is this funny? Is this funny? Is this funny?Unknown Speaker  49:15  It's a bit loaded at this point.Grace Tame  49:18  Ah, yes. Oh, crikey. What am I doing here? I'm not a comedian. But if you look up the Venn diagram of me and these guys, you'll find that it's not actually a Venn diagram at all. It's just a great big flashing circle that says go to therapy. Yes, the natural progression from very serious Law Reform campaigning is self roasting. When Dan asked me to do this, he said, Can you please do a monologue that is topical. And I'm on a serious mission to not talk about anything political, because everyone's been accusing me of Being a hack. I know that makes things a little bit difficult. So I'm really sorry to disappoint you if you came to hear me make jokes about a certain someone I know the temptation is very real. He is like a giant self sourcing comedy puttingis the joke desert that ISIS itself, you don't even have to tell him he just goes and grabs the ukulele all by himself.To get around that issue, I've decided instead to reflect on one of my favorite TV shows from the early 2000s. My Little Pony Friendship is Magic. Which Believe it or not, translates quite well to the landscape of Australian politics. For example, the leader of Equestria Princess Celestia. has let down Australian voters yet again, with her willingness to greenwash her government's reliance on fossil fuels to neighboring neighboring Yes, the pawns. The pawns are coming to neighboring pony kingdoms. She's also very sensitive about a tail tail that she wants shattered in old McDonald's farm in 1997. All right, I'll stop. I'll make a deal. Just don't shame survivors on primetime TV don't underfund support services, protect alleged rapists stab people in the back bully people pork barrel. You see we've got a bit of an imbalance daily people.Ah, yes, that naughty little flying horned pony. Anyway, what I've decided to talk about this evening has absolutely nothing at all to do with politics whatsoever. And that thing is air fryers. Stick with him. Actually, I suppose they are a little bit political. As one of my favorite comedians. Mark Latham has accused me of being since the airfryer came about. It has in some ways, divided the nation. That's the real Mark Latham by the way as he calls himself on Twitter. All the other Mark Latham's are not in one nation. So will the real Mark Latham please shirt front? Sorry, I promised I wouldn't get political. It's just that I had to give him a shout out because one of the chaser interns the other day, was saying that my home Tasmania isn't a real place. So I figured if Tasmania isn't real, at least I can keep living rent free in real might lay things headyeah, it's pretty much just me, Rosie Batty, the 2004 election results. And pretty much well actually, everyone who isn't a straight white man. That's probably why he's so mad all the time. It's pretty crowded up in there. Anyway, where was I? Yes, the humble airfryer people seem to love it or hate it. What is this cheeky little unit that just popped up? Out of nowhere? How could there possibly be this smaller version of something that does things we've already been doing this whole time. Only it gets to the point of it quicker and cuts out all the crapmost of its criticism seems to come from people who don't like change. But really it's just a lightweight, metal clad Basket Case inside a pressure cooker that has a little vent and no filter Are you catching my drift? That's an airplane by the way doesn't really matter does it because if you're not a fan fan get into what I'm really trying to say is if you don't like it, don't buy it. And that's not a political help my friends that's just a life hackUnknown Speaker  55:36  right that was making noiseDan Ilic  55:51  so Grace yo, yo, in retirement from being Australian in here, you're moving into white goods is thisUnknown Speaker  56:00  nah man and fries a heavy metal.Dan Ilic  56:05  Well, I've got a great song for you from Alice and Gabby who've written one, especially for this period that we're in in the pre election period because it's a really tough time for satirists because it involves watching a lot of news. So this is a brand new song from Gabby bolt, and that was frozen.Unknown Speaker  56:24  Brand new. So brand new, brand new brand new.Alice Fraser  56:28  We need the lyrics. So brand new.Zoe Daniel  56:31  An hour ago.Alice Fraser  56:33  I was breastfeeding Hi, Alice. Hi, Gabby.Unknown Speaker  56:44  How are you going? Well, you know, on the one hand, can be out jobs full of laughter. We take the news and make it fun. In the morning after we're filled with familiar shame. Because when the sun comes up, we have to read theAlice Fraser  57:11  news again. Do you know what that's like? Have you ever read the fucking news doesn't make you feel good. Fucking job.Unknown Speaker  57:22  The 24 hourGabbi Bolt  57:25  news constantly confronted with badness a world that is talking an awfulUnknown Speaker  57:31  drive us madness. The 24 hour perpetual news drama crackers to troops to findGabbi Bolt  57:41  the wacky side of the worst of the world on a loop. reading the news it's like reading the same fairy tale for bedtime every night but you don't like the story. It's boring and it's awful. And the moral of the story is the world's entirely fucked and no one's coming to help youAlice Fraser  58:02  we staring up the asshole of a whale sure you're learning something but at what cost?Gabbi Bolt  58:12  is like watching the final season of Game of Thrones thing started off so well and honestly a little bit juicy and it just kind of ended with hellfire and poor writing and way too dark. I mean literally way too dark. To see the last three episodes. It was horrible at reading the news, it's like slammingAlice Fraser  58:32  a door in your foot once an hour through the day, but the foot is your brain and the door and the internet. And the news is the grinding pain.Gabbi Bolt  58:40  Oh horrible. News is like being that guy and Seinfeld who always gets through the door looking surprised and making the same mistake every time. What's his name? I don't know. I'd never watched Seinfeld. Yeah, me neither. No way He's name is Michael Richards. I read about in screaming racist abuse. Yeah. What did you read that in the news? Do you think this makes us happy?Unknown Speaker  59:06  It's like puking down your Ryan dress and then rolling around in chinetti. InsideAlice Fraser  59:11  and out. You end up feeling daddy. And you end up smelling was your likey ancient Mara and produces your ancient curse to take on oil Smith.Gabbi Bolt  59:26  What's your advice on Russia?Alice Fraser  59:28  I don't know. I've never made a Molotov cocktail IQ.Unknown Speaker  59:31  They're delicious. Some people take up smoking or drown themselves in booze. Some people do try Abalones verbally just read the news.Gabbi Bolt  59:45  I can't keep up with the Canberra Cannes, political.Alice Fraser  59:50  Don't make me like the bright side. scotoma phobic.Unknown Speaker  59:57  You might call it charming. but ignore the clues. It's psychological self harming. Please don't make us read the newsDan Ilic  1:00:14  Thank you everyone. We're almost done. Please thank Jane he's gonna head off to his showour next guest on rational fear is one of the best known Australians as a foreign correspondent reporting from war zones and political hotspots around the world. Now she's looking to swamp the swamp of Washington DC for the shake panics of Canberra is the independent candidate for Goldstein Zoe Danieljolly Nice shirt there, good merch. So we launched her campaign today, so that's why she's got a face on it. Looks let's get straight into it. sharri markson on Earth some tweets from your team comparing Scott Morrison to Hitler. We've all done it. So the question is, if you could go back in time, and be face to face with baby Scott Morrison would you tell his parents to not turn him into a child actor?Zoe Daniel  1:01:21  Don't go into politics.Dan Ilic  1:01:24  So why are you running? Why you decided to ruin your life and go into politics?Lewis Hobba  1:01:29  Yeah, why are you turning away from the glitz and the glamour of the ABC?Zoe Daniel  1:01:34  Well, the news was getting me down so I decided to do something more positive go into politics. What I mean, thank you grace for the for the lines, but lying, cheating, rotting, scamming, gaslighting manipulating disinformation.Dan Ilic  1:01:53  Is this your platform? They're the reasons to do welcome to the Liberal Party. Was there a moment was there a catalyst? Was this something you went? Oh, that's too much. I'm now going in.Zoe Daniel  1:02:05  I just been chatting in the TV too much. I couldn't do it anymore. My son who's 15 said Mum, someone's got to do something for us on these issues. And it's really hard to look your 15 year old son and your 13 year old daughter in the iron so now, too hard.Dan Ilic  1:02:23  Well, look, if you don't mind, just want to talk about the person you're running against just for a little bit. My friend Tim Wilson, there he is. He loves He loves. He looks like he really does turn himself a bit of a greeny I have a look at his Twitter profile. He loves solar panels, wind farms. He loves carbon capture manufacturing.Lewis Hobba  1:02:45  I think we need his paws on this image. This is extraordinary.Unknown Speaker  1:02:49  I'm nervous about the upcoming election and this is the break I just sharedDan Ilic  1:03:02  I mean, I don't think it's defamatory to say he looks like he's about to murder you with that branch.Gabbi Bolt  1:03:09  I disagree. I think he looks like a newborn when you pose them with those plaques like today.Andrew McClelland  1:03:15  It looks like a teenager experimenting with goth makeup for the first time.Dan Ilic  1:03:20  He also loves kombucha made of made of carbon and look at the guy who runs the kombucha shop.Unknown Speaker  1:03:29  This guy is like he don't eat thoseDan Ilic  1:03:33  guys like he just picked up the nails and started going. No, he really hates rally. ShouldUnknown Speaker  1:03:39  I do that?Unknown Speaker  1:03:43  Come on Gatorade Sachs guys. Come on.Lewis Hobba  1:03:50  Two minutes with a hose.Dan Ilic  1:03:51  He really hates rubbish here. Here he is picking up rubbish. I assume he's about to put that back as part of being rubbish zero. Emissions Net Zero rubbish there. So why is he turned into a greeny all of a sudden? Like, this is not the first time I've heard it. Tim Wilson being agree.Zoe Daniel  1:04:08  Well, today we had a campaign launch. We had 2000 people there. And we have 1000s of people in the community.Lewis Hobba  1:04:19  Just 1/10 of the size of this crowd.Zoe Daniel  1:04:24  Something's gotta giveDan Ilic  1:04:27  in the IPA. You could do with more solar panels on your Twitter bio, by the way, point taken. So like when people look at you and they see him being a climate hero and you being a climate hero. Who would they who should they vote for?Zoe Daniel  1:04:44  The person who hasn't been in politics for six years and not deliveredDan Ilic  1:04:54  I just want to play the first minute of something quickly here. Sky News ran a big smear campaign against The against the climate 200 people, people who imagine that the independents that are running, let's play a quick game of hang on a sec, as we play this if you want to chime in just say hang on a sec,Peta Credlin  1:05:11  they call themselves voices off a gaggle of independent candidates who are set to play a significant role in the coming campaign. They say they're not a political party. These independent voices all sing from the same hymn book, climate action, political integrity, gender equalityAlice Fraser  1:05:32  How dare they hang on a second who did this school for this the guy who wrote inception? very sinister.Lewis Hobba  1:05:44  It's like one of those challenges like Jimmy Fallon does it like I'm gonna give you the nicest words in the world and try to make them sound evil. Great actors like That's fucking extraordinary. And also did she call you a gaggle? gaggle.Grace Tame  1:05:58  PETA wants to stay oppressed, she does. She really doesn't want gender equality.Peta Credlin  1:06:05  And they all have another thing that binds them together. common enemy, incumbent liberal MPs.Zoe Daniel  1:06:14  I'm Zoe Daniel, and I'm your community backed independent candidate for Goldstein.Peta Credlin  1:06:19  Why these climate 200 Guerrilla Games matter is not just that liberal seats could fall. For the liberal campaign hard heads will waste time and money trying to hang onto electorates that by right? Shouldn't be at risk.Alice Fraser  1:06:36  Hang on a second. Hang on a second.Andrew McClelland  1:06:42  It's almost like we're in a democracy or something.Alice Fraser  1:06:47  Like a waste of time and energy, doing politics, their job?Dan Ilic  1:06:53  Isn't that the most bizarre fucked up thing? It's like when people complain about the Murdoch media. Party democracy is because they don't believe in democracy.Lewis Hobba  1:07:04  It's rightfully this guy game. Can I just need a second?Peta Credlin  1:07:11  The liberal MPs in them like the treasurer, Josh Frydenberg. He's at home trying to shore up Kooyong. It's time he's not in a marginal seat that they've got to win. Now climate 200 is financing around 20 independent candidates. People like Zoe Daniel and it's no coincidence that they're almost all women. It's part of a deliberate ploy to live so called problem with women.Unknown Speaker  1:07:41  So I don't want to use the word conspiracy. Certainly not a second of people who are doing their best to stop Liberals and Nationals from winning the coming election.Alice Fraser  1:07:58  I don't want to use the word conspiracy, so I'm just gonna point and scream whichDan Ilic  1:08:05  Zowie now that you've seen a portion of that how do you feelUnknown Speaker  1:08:08  wow,Zoe Daniel  1:08:09  I hadn't seen that. Thank you so much.Dan Ilic  1:08:12  That's a minute 36 You're never gonna get back again.Lewis Hobba  1:08:15  We've got you here talk us through the conspiracy bag of other women are putting together to get a qualityZoe Daniel  1:08:22  right we need us at the table. Thanks veryDan Ilic  1:08:24  much. At the end of this financial year, our birth of money runs out so I need to get your number for George Soros to continue please Thanks Daniel. Before we go Louis Texas time we got one more one more message from our sponsor or your kids for quick word on workers rights apparently no. Foreign Please give it up for Louis.Lewis Hobba  1:09:15  Thank you so much. This is a real delight, a real privilege and an honor to be here at the Forum theatre. Okay, let's get stuck into it. If there's one thing we know our prime minister loves its tourism. The last time he did anything we even kind of liked. It was chucking Bengal on a beach and asking where the bloody hell Aya his commitment to tourism is so powerful that he walks the walk even when tourism isn't convenient. When it isn't easy. When the entire country is on fire. He puts on his little tourist shirt and he goes to Hawaii. All he wants is for people to get on a plane and travel. He's less keen on boats. But this week, there was a new Australian tourism ad that really caught my eye All right, before I play it for you, I'll give you a clue. It is not an ad for a foot fetish website. You will think it is. But it is not.Unknown Speaker  1:10:17  We've long been a land of explorers and adventurous travelers and trailblazers. We've traversed all manner of terrains, chase the horizon in every direction, climbed higher, descend deeper, gone further. And still the quest continues. They will always be more to explore. So, where to from here? We say Bring on the beyond our boldest adventure. Yeah. Australia. We're going to the moonLewis Hobba  1:10:57  what when? And also what's first up? Why does going to the moon look like a gap year? It starts by saying we're a land of explorers. Maybe they don't remember but for the last three years the only traveling we've done have been from the bed to the working from home desk. And if we're lucky to the couch for a little cry also so many fate EOC it looks like it was directed by Quentin Tarantino. The print ad for this campaign is this it's a thong on the moon. Looks like Uncle Steve got on the wrong plane to Bali. But I will say this. There is something genuinely quite sweet about the phrase get a moon it's something that Steve Irwin might have said quietly to himself while he was camping with the family. Get a moon get a tent. Get a Terry. Get a tree. Get a Steve. Let's let that settle in. I'll be safe. Now I can't wait to see what Australians do to the moon. In some ways. It's the safest place to send Australians. We can't be trusted in Asia and Europe. We will pass in the Sea of Tranquility. We will draw a deck next to Neil Armstrong's footprint. And every single one of us will drop our DAX and Moon the moon. Whose idea was this? Why are we going to the moon? You may not have heard yet, but we already put a man on there. It made the news in 1969. There at no one has been on the moon since 1973. It has less foot traffic than the doklam.Gabbi Bolt  1:13:19  I knowLewis Hobba  1:13:20  Australia has a history of like discovering things after they've been discovered. And we're not 60,000 years late this time. But going to the moon. It just feels weird. What are we doing? I looked into it a little right. I was like why are we going to the moon. I did some investigative journalism. I went to the get a moon website. First of all, no one's going to the moon right? A semi autonomous robot is going to the moon. They don't they don't have feetalso, we're going to build this semi autonomous robot it's going to cost us a fortune which is a waste of money because our country is already full of semi autonomous robotsthat is walking around you can grab one for nothing. So what does Australia offer some unlike NASA when it comes to space exploration, we've already let him use the telescope at parks. What more could we possibly do? Well, there is something Australia does really well. We are well number one at it. And if you want to stay across this particular Australian skill set, I suggest you subscribe to this exciting magazine. The Australian mining review any fans and subscribers the centerfolds wha when you add it in the Australian mining review, you'll get to see this very relaxing news that there's The new board of Rio Tinto, oz minerals and all the big mining companies they're formed together to take our mining expertise to space. That's right. Now I don't know for sure that we're planning to mine the moonbut let's be honest, we're gonna mined the fucking moon. It's one small step for mines one giant leap for mankind. Does this suddenly make more sense to you? If you think blasting minors into space is a cool idea. You're absolutely right. It's such a cool idea. It's the plot for Armageddon. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, we're only going to be sending a little rocket to space, so it's less arm again. And it's more like Wally if it was written by Matt Canavan. As soon as you realize that we're going to the moon, this whole ad makes more sense. The only thing more Australian than a thong is a big fucking hole in the ground. Sometimes you feel like Australian politicians must look at all the rules and wonder why we have something that actually sticks up. And it's like, that's gone the wrong way. What is that some kind of reverse hole? You got to dig down boys. You got to dig down. There are gonna be people who are against mining the moon. They'll say Australia can't be trusted with the moon. Australia can't even be trusted with Australia. Give the moon to Denmark or something. Like give it to someone who knows what the hell they're doing. Not me. I'm excited. Let's go fuck up the moon. There's a reason no one goes there. You know it's boring. The moon is the third drawer of the solar system. It's there. We don't need it.To sleep at night when you go home and you go, it's Robert ends. But here's a true fact. Right? Because I think sometimes nature tries to warn us humans when we're doing something wrong, right? Here's a true fact. The Moon moves one and a half inches away from the Earth every year. I think it knows what we're planning. And it's backing away. The good out a movie to add felt so weird to watch because we all knew something was off about it right? Like you just see it for the first time you're like, This is wrong, right? And now we know why. But I have to say it was so close to being the perfect dad so close. It was nearly an ad that captured not just the essence of one space mission, but the modern Australian mission, the very core of the Aussie spirit and add that could finally hold a candle to Bingle when it comes to showing the world who we are. It just needed one tiny change for all Australians to see it and think oh yeah, it makes total sense that our government made that ad get a mind it almost makes you wish that this was an ad for a foot fetish website. Thank you so much.Dan Ilic  1:18:13  That is it for rational fear. Please give it up for our guest Alice Jane Lewis. Gabby Vica DJ Andy McClellan Grace freaking big thank you to Nathan abondoned overtaking family and all the great folks and marijuana and the forum sorry read on like big thank you to Sophie matinee Megan Herbert Beck Melrose Andres also big thank you to Jacob Brown, the birth of foundation rode mics and until our live show the Opera House in two months time there's always something to be scared ofTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ SEE OUR LIVE SHOW: https://comedy.com.au/tour/a-rational-fear-live/G'day Fearmongers,Sadly there's no Jan Fran Has Issues this week as all of our producers at F&K Media have been sidelined with COVID19 — instead enjoy this 10 minute sample of the Melbourne International Comedy Festival live show to hear the full thing before it goes on the free feed in a week's time.If you want to hear the full thing — sign up to Patreon!www.patreon.com/ARationalFear If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261  0:00  If we're really good at Dean stuff up in Australia and making sure it can feel the rest of the world0:14  good I feel mongers Dan Ilic. Here. There is no Jad Fran has issues this week because unfortunately, everyone on the production team has COVID-19 COVID-19 in 2022, can you believe it, but so behind the times in our team, so instead we are letting our good team rest and regain their energy because we don't break anyone. And instead, I'm giving you a free 10 minute sample of the irrational fear Melbourne International Comedy Festival live show, which is only available to our Patreon subscribers exclusively for one more week. And if you want to hear the full thing, please sign up to our Patreon like these awesome people have this month so big shout out to these people Laura Maya David pickers, Gwen Harper, Katie Maltby, Deborah Reedy, Bernadette Mortlock, Jen Mackenzie, Felicity nibs Tracy man Tiger Lily KitKat snark, St. Catherine Ford puzzling a Tassie storm Thank you puzzling what has he storm? Tom read Ozzie Jim Fein 11 Rich talk well Nam Blusky sous good on your sous Ella Griffis Tony canard, Jonathan freckle Akira unveiled Daniel Harvey, Zachary Kendall, Lucy Bauer, Michael Lynch, and AJ Heiko Val. Oh my goodness, so many people have signed up this month. So big thank you, it really makes a difference. It basically means we can pay our producers to put the show on every week. And and we can, you know, pay people to appear on the show, which is something a lot of other podcasts don't do. And that's really cool. So please, thank you very much. Here is the first 10 minutes of our festival show from last week. If you want to hear the full thing she had been to irrational fear on Patreon. And we'll be back next week with a brand new episode of Jan Fran has issues. Oh, and also, we've got our 10 year anniversary show at the Opera House June for so if you're in Sydney, please go to the Sydney Opera House and buy a ticket there. Luis is going to be there. I'm going to be there. Mark Humphries is going to be there and I've asked a few other excellent people to be there too. It's going to be so do come along June 4 at the Sydney Opera House. Enjoy this live show. It's a crackup, probably one of our best ever live shows. Well worth signing up for the patreon to hear the full thing before it becomes free in seven days. See you.2:33  Thank you so much for coming here. This is amazing. Oh my2:36  god. Wow. You know, when our producer said, Do you want the 200 seats, the 300 seat or the 800 seat? I said, give us the 800 seat. We'll fill it almost. And I said give me the MCG right tonight shows a bit of a different kind of show. If you come to Comedy Festival. This is a podcast recording I'm sorry.2:58  It basically just means fewer jokes. Lower the expectation,3:03  but you get some discounts on a great mattress. It's gonna be great. We're gonna put on a great show regardless, but you have to do your job as a great audience. Can you be a great audience? Fantastic. So part of that, you know, laughing clapping cheering whistling all of that. That's good stuff. That is good stuff. But heckling is3:20  what's the opinion on like, flares out? No flare, pyrotechnics of any kind. No pirates weapons Bad.3:28  Very bad unless they3:29  have to get rid of some stuff. Twain What about Twain,3:33  Shania Twain. Perfect. So heckling is a little tricky. If you do hecho you'll be removed faster than a liberal who's won pre selection who made the Lebanese so you'll be out you'll be straight out of there, straight out of there. Now if you think someone next year is going to do something, just give them a stern look. The kind of look my mum gives her friends when she's got to explain what I do for a job3:59  that you do the tree brothers are so much better than you.4:01  I know. They are really lovely. So we're making this a safe space for you and our people on stage. Can you do that for me? Right. We also going to cover some pretty tricky topics. Okay, so and we've got a lot of foul language. A lot of adult words will be flung at you but there will be puns as well. The worst kind of should give you full warning and that Alice Fraser is here. She's brought all the puns she has. If something does trigger you something gives you an easy feelings. Sophie Minetti is over at the sound desk over there she's waving by the sound desk if you need to talk to someone during the show. Go have a chat with Sophie or afterwards as well. We've got a place you guys can go All right great. What else we're gonna do here Oh, big thank you to our Patreon supporters. Here we got one right here. Big thank you Tim. Thank you.4:49  I feel this like like when you get on a plane and they're like oh big thank you to our Qantas oneworld customers. You can4:58  see more merch here you You You're a Patreon supporter. Oh, fantastic. Oh my God.5:05  Is there anyone here tonight who's never heard of the podcast and doesn't know why they're here?5:13  You're fine. You're about to find out sign up to get a poster. I certainly get the show. Right. Let's5:18  do it. Let's get this show started. But the other quick thing is right at the start, Dan likes to do three jokes. And there are varying quality. But I would really appreciate it if for the benefit of those listening at home, you laugh so loudly. He, he really made his brothers and so much better than he really needs this.5:39  Thank you, Louis. All right. We're recording this episode of irrational fear on Wonderland in the Kulin nation, sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.5:54  For everybody go gang prepping for irrational fear with Grace team making the transition to a comedy stage. Any advice video?6:01  Yes, Grace. First, you've got to just start by really trusting the stage you're on. I know. It can be really scary. always like, Oh my God, is it gonna collapse? But chances are it won't even just Creek and fall under you.6:13  Yeah, right. Well, I have been on a few stage just before.6:18  Yeah, yeah. But this is a comedy stage and much like the comedians on those stages. They're very unstable on the inside.6:27  Any advice for hecklers Gaby?6:29  It's what I mean, it's, it's a horrible person yelling horrible things at you. And we don't know why it happens. And I know that that might not have happened to you before. But like, it's just you know, it's a part of the comedy world, you know.6:45  I reckon I've been a wreck and I've been abused before. Oh,6:51  yeah, of course. Yeah. No, of course, horse you6:56  know, of course, saying stuff on stage. That's an important part of this right? Often I find it's funny because it's true. So you might just want to go on stage and just say the truth.7:07  Look, I'll give it a crack. Trust that the audience on your side and yeah, believe in yourself, I suppose. That's actually7:18  really good advice.7:19  Good way of looking at things. I might just read that. Yeah, yeah. Good advice. I think that could really help us Yeah.7:30  irrational fear contains naughty words like bricks and sticks of rational fear, recommend listening might you mature audience.7:45  Tonight, Scott Morrison receives a hostile reception at a new costume pub, to which Scott Morrison said I reject the premise of the statement. It's the same kind of reception I get everywhere. And the Australian Grand Prix returns to Melbourne for the first time in two years. When asked how excited that the race is back in Australia January, Ricardo said and the election has finally been cooled. But we're running out of time for Peter Dutton to call a party remaining to roll Scott Boras says icon this is a rational rationalWelcome to irrational fear. I'm your host, former pre selected liberal candidate for Cooktown illage. And you're listening to irrational fear at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival, the petri dish of Australian culture and COVID-19 So thank you for coming here and risking your life for a comedy podcast. Really appreciate that. This is the podcast that takes the scariest news and laughs in its face much the same way. Scott Morrison laughs in the face of a Commonwealth integrity commission with no retrospective powers. Let's make our fear mongers for tonight. Every few weeks our first fear monger starts a new satirical comedy podcast from the bugle the gargle tea with Alice and the Joe Rogan experience experience. It's Alice Fraser. I haven't listened to the Joe Rogan experience experience. What's it all about?9:26  Oh, I think people are too scared of Joe Rogan. I think he's just a perfectly nice comedy meathead who accidentally got caught in a toxic spill at the masculinity factory.9:35  And she's the lyrical satirical miracle that isn't here to the empirical let's get him out. Gabby, this is your first ever Melbourne Comedy Festival as a solo artist and you're already selling out what's your secret? Money laundering9:49  mostly. Works well.9:52  And he's a military man who just got married starring people. He's off the market. He's the purveyor of Wagga. Wagga is fine as dad jokes It's Dane Simpson. Now, I actually got that wrong. Sorry, Dana. You are the finest purveyor of jokes about your dad specifically. Does he mind? He's too stupid understand. And each morning he siphons the blood of 322 year olds to keep himself fresh from a national youth broadcaster. It's triple Jays last remaining geriatric millennial Louis harbor. Lewis, how do you keep up with the Gen Zed logo? The Gen Zed lingo?10:34  How do I keep up with the Gen Zed lingo? Yeah, I mean, I like to just fuse it with lingo from my own time to make it easy. I'll say something like, have you? Pardon me boys? Is that the Chattanooga Choo10:48  it's lit and he's immunity musical genius who is genetically gifted? It is Andy McClellan. Oh, thank you. I just need to promote my extremely nice Gilbert and Sullivan themes Comedy Festival. Come along, and they're a changemaker cage Rattler, Dragon Slayer and she represented Australia in the 50 meter side I it's based.Race How does one train for the 50 meter sider?11:28  Well, like the legend Don Bradman? I practice against a wall every day.11:34  Coming up later in the show, we are Zoe Daniel if this sign is big enough, or legal enough, but first a message from this week's sponsor, now it is not cheap to rent out the forum. So I hope you'll forgive our sponsor for tonight. It's called oil cares. A petroleum advocacy group dedicated to letting you know that oil. Well cares. Please welcome their spokesperson Vidya Rajan for a quick word on women apparently, video.12:09  Yes, Dad oil cares about you about me and especially about women. Oil loved woman. Patriarchy has kept both oil and woman in ground for too long. I'm mushy. Hey, did you know BP actually stands for boss policy? Squad? Yes. Goals? Yes. Grace tame the anti fracking lobby. Look, we love all sis and trans continental pipelines for sis and trans oil13:00  Thank you. Good job. Well, folks, the election is finally upon us. Today the Prime Minister and prominent gas man Scott Morrison called the election at the last possible date he legally could which continues to prove just how his government is run by the Engadine doctrine. That is the principle of Miring and indecision until the march of time forces action upon you. You know like like shooting yourself in an egg in a McDonald's.13:34  Can you help yourself everyone got a dad I know. Everyone's got these ads he made sure13:41  I had to explain that for my dad whois slowly fading that out. You know it's it's too good. I know you want to hear more of it. To hear the full thing go to patreon.com forward slash a rational fear chipping for as little as $4.50 that is like the cost of a cup of coffee chipping once a month. That photons 50 cups to us. You're paying giving us a coffee a month and which means we can put on the show so please go to irrational fear.com Or go to patreon.com forward slash rational fear. See you next week with a brand new Jad friend has issuedTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ BUY TICKETS TO OUR MELBOURNE COMEDY FESTIVAL SHOW HEREWe're joined this week by fearmonger and filmmaker Damon Gameau. And we cover:Storytelling and climate changeCommunity lead climate recoveryRegenerating our democracy PLUGS:See Damon's new film Regenerating Australia in a theatre near you🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearHeading into the election your support is going to be more crucial than ever!Thank you FEARMONGERS!If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261-----------------------------Bertha Announcement  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation. Dan Ilic  0:04  Good evening, Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:06  Hello Daniel. How are you?Dan Ilic  0:07  You know what I'm I'm thoroughly exhausted.Lewis Hobba  0:11  Yeah, I was about to say you sound sick.Dan Ilic  0:14  I'm not sick. I've had two COVID tests today though, but they're both negative. I think it gets to the point where I get so busy, my voice becomes incredibly sexy.Lewis Hobba  0:24  Getting into SBS up late territory, which is exciting for the show.Voice Over  0:28  The following programme may contain nudity and traces of nuts. SBS recommends viewing by immature audiences.Lewis Hobba  0:38  Yeah, it's a going around though the Mardi Gras really brought back the resurgence of Coronavirus. Certainly in my friendship group. Dan Ilic  0:47  Yeah, I was wondering about that because you went to Mardi Gras. Did you get a second dose of Coronavirus by-Lewis Hobba  0:55  No, I didn't go to the actual SCG. But I was within you know, I was in the zone about a K away at a couple of parties. It was fun. It's nice to be out and about.Dan Ilic  1:04  Yeah. There's an interesting story. I don't know if he saw this is incredible story about one of the 78'ers as being arrested by the police because she held up a sign saying fuck Putin or something. And the police came up to her and said, You can't hold up a sign. It's offensive. So who am I offending is like- This is a licenced venue. You can't hold up a sign because it's political and therefore offensive. And she got arrested. This is old 78'er It's incredible because the Mardi Gras is entirely a political event. The whole thing is a political event. Oh my god, Lewis Hobba  1:40  that is wildDan Ilic  1:41  Just you know, but that's a cop shouldn't be in the money, right? Oh, I should just get rid of them. They I think that's probably right. Yeah, they should probably probably have the Defence Force run the Mardi Gras then. You know this. So yeah,Lewis Hobba  1:52  they're doing everything else. Why not pull them out of pull them out of the photo ops and Lismore pull them out of the, I guess old- aged care facilities where they are now. And yeah, get him in there.Dan Ilic  2:03  Get them out of the medina apartments stopping people from escaping quarantine, get them down to the Mardi Gras. Let's kick off the show. Damon Gummo on the line and we're going to be talking to him in just a second. Before we get to him, we'll talk about our comedy festival show as well. So here we go. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on Gadigal land in the Eora nation. Sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show. Voice Over  2:23  A Rational fear contains naughty words like Bre***, Canberra b***ble, fair d**nkum and section 4*. A rational fear recommendeds listening by immature audiences.Dan Ilic  2:36  Tonight with one in 100 year floods becoming more frequent Scott Morrison renames them miracle floods. And Scott Morrison prepares for another miracle election win by visiting Lismore and attempting to walk on water. And we're all waiting for Scott Morrison to launch a new National Flood Coordination Committee to drain the Beetaloo Basin. It's the 11th of March 2022. This is a rational fear. I'm so tired.Lewis Hobba  3:12  Honestly, I've never heard you sell those jokes with less verve in 10 years. That was it. That was rock bottom.Dan Ilic  3:20  Well, I just wanted to point out those jokes quickly. Like it's so interesting. Like I wrote that Scomo National floods Coordination Committee joke at the end of February when the floods really took off throughout Queensland. And not seven days later, to the date I put that tweet out. They actually gave $7.5 million for fracking in the Northern Territory. It's like we're not gonna give out flood support, but we will pay for someone to drain the middle of it. So yeah.Lewis Hobba  3:48  we're gonna get some of that moisture and just pump it into some seams. See what we can find.Dan Ilic  3:53  It's been a moisture Amy Remeikis had a great tweet today, which made my heart swell Lewis Hobba  3:57  Great segue. Dan Ilic  3:58  Well, yeah. Moisture, Amy Remeikis. Well known, well known wet person, Amy Remeikis, she tweeted guess with so much of the East Coast underwater, the prime minister could declare anything to do with the floods as an on water matter and refuse to talk about it.Lewis Hobba  4:14  That's great from Amy. Really good.Dan Ilic  4:17  Hey, we've got an absolutely huge Comedy Festival Show. Coming up in about four weeks time, Louis. I assume you-Lewis Hobba  4:25  Is it four weeks? Dan Ilic  4:26  Yeah, it's it's the 10th of April. It's literally-Lewis Hobba  4:31  Far outDan Ilic  4:31  It's literally a month away. And I assume you've seen in the lineup. Have you seen the lineup, Lewis?Lewis Hobba  4:36  I saw the lineup this week. I found out on Twitter like everybody else, which is how I do all of my a rational fear planning. Like, oh, Dan's tweeted out. Often sometimes, like, my girlfriend will be like, Hey, you're doing a show at the forum with Grace Tame. I'm like, No I'm not. Like no Dan just put it on Twitter. That's amazing.Dan Ilic  4:56  Yeah, we have a huge lineup. The problem is Lewis, I booked I accidentally booked the biggest room at the Comedy Festival. That means I now need to intentionally book The biggest lineup at the Comedy Festival. And that includes you and I. Alice Fraser Lewis Hobba  5:11  Great Dan Ilic  5:12  From the bugle. Who is you know, friend of the show, Gabby Bolt from the chaser. And Lewis Hobba  5:18  Crushing it Dan Ilic  5:18  And Gabby Bolt is absolutely, have you been following me bolts escapades at the Adelaide fringe?Lewis Hobba  5:23  I have. Yeah, she's absolutely nailing it to no one's surprise, but everyone saw it. Dan Ilic  5:27  Yeah, just absolutely nailing it. She won Best Comedy at the Adelaide fringe this week, which is amazing. She sold out her run after doing one show to like 12 people and now she's completely sold out. And her first show at comedy festival will be on stage with us at the a rational fear, which is amazing. Dane Simpson from you know, every other TV show that's going around at the moment. He's absolutely sensational. Lewis Hobba  5:49  He's the best. Dan Ilic  5:49  And Australian of the Year. Lewis Hobba. No, Australian of the Year, Grace Tame.Lewis Hobba  5:55  Well, we could probably get Dylan Alcott if you want two Australians of the Year. Dan Ilic  5:59  That's a great idea. Does Dylan, does Dylan, Dylan live in Melbourne?Lewis Hobba  6:04  He does. Yeah. Yeah. I could ask Dylan.Dan Ilic  6:07  Maybe we can have two. We can have an Australian the year face off. That would be amazing. Lewis Hobba  6:11  YeahDan Ilic  6:11  Also, and DJ Andy McClelland is gonna be holding the show together. Now that it is Lewis Hobba  6:15  Oh my goodness, Best Dressed Man in comedy. Yeah, pretty, pretty wild. So if you want to get your tickets, head to a rational fear, look at look at the lineup page and get your tickets there. Also, if you are a Patreon supporter, you get a 25% discount, then there's a limited available number of tickets for Patreon supporters so please, snap up those tickets as quickly as you canGet in quick because the Hobba family are all buying theirs. So there's gonna be not much left by the time by all my Victorian family arriveDan Ilic  6:44  Did they even bother to come to last year's Comedy Festival? Or are they just showing up to see Grace Tame?Lewis Hobba  6:51  They did actually come they came to our show last year as well, they'll very, they've always been very disappointed that as a Victorian we've never done a rational fear in Melbourne until last year. So- but I don't think they'll quite fill up the forum. But it does sell out quickly once my parents get on the, on board. Dan Ilic  7:08  Yeah, great. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing the entire Hobba clan take up one of the booths at the back of the forum.Lewis Hobba  7:15  It's such a fancy venue. Have you been to the forum since it got redone? It's way too nice for us. Dan Ilic  7:20  Well, here's the thing in the words of words of-Lewis Hobba  7:22  Are we gonne need to like wear suits?Dan Ilic  7:24  Well, that's a great idea. That's a really good idea it's a classy venue. In the words of the Blues Brothers. It's a fucking barn. And we'll never fill it. Like it's got that edge. It's got that feeling about it. Because it's so huge. Which means we- I need we need you and I should ever think about this. What big thing we can do in the forum. I know it's only four weeks away, and there's a lot going on in the world. But we should think about what-Lewis Hobba  7:45  This podcast is a workshop now. I don't have any ideas. Fucking let us know.Dan Ilic  7:50  It is a workshop. And if you do have an idea, drop us a line and we'll include those ideas in the podcast. It's narrative building, which is wonderful. We've got an excellent guest tonight. Damon Gameau, who is a director, actor, activist, legend. He joins us right now. G'day Damon. Damon Gameau  8:08  Hi Dan! Hi Lewis! Dan Ilic  8:10  It is great to have you. It's excellent to have you. Thank you so much for joining us on on a rational fear. This is not like the standard format for a rational fear. I've decided to create a new format called a rational conversations. Damon Gameau  8:23  OkayDan Ilic  8:23  And that's the format that we roll out when I'm too lazy to book the original format. Yeah.Lewis Hobba  8:29  Yeah, it's-  take that! We're coming for you Richard Fidler. It's conversations two: this time it's lazier.Dan Ilic  8:36  Conversations quarter hour. That's what we're calling this.Lewis Hobba  8:41  I just saw Richard Feiler in a lift this afternoon. He's gonna be very angry at me tomorrow that we're stealing his bit.Dan Ilic  8:45  I'm sure I'm sure he will be. It's really exciting to have you Damon. For a long time. I followed your work with 2040. And of course, that sugar movie which you made it- now you've got a brand new kind of 17 minute hope for kind of a treaties on what Australia could be like. You know, you've got Aboriginal voices to Parliament, renters using solar panels, communities owning owning their own power, utes being used to make money to power the grid, transparency and democracy. My question to you Damon is when did you move from making documentaries about sugar to making science fiction films?Damon Gameau  9:21  Basically, having two daughters really was the big wake up the first one, really, I'd always been sort of interested in ecological things and climate but didn't really understand it enough. And then once I had the daughter, the first daughter, it just suddenly raced to the top of the queue. And the more I sort of read about it and tried to engage with it, I just thought, oh, man, we need all storytellers or artists or musicians. Everyone needs to get hands on deck for this topic. And we need to change culture or try and shift it really, really quickly. So I looked at some of the psychology around that the neuroscience and just sort of spoke to enough people that said that, you know, if we keep banging people over the head with this stuff, it can be paralysing for a lot of people so we need to offer up different narratives at the same same time not to shy away from those urgent narratives, but to also offer up and give people a sense of what life might be like on the other side of this crisis and let them feel the benefits, see how it would impact their lives and their communities. And so I guess that's the path I've taken. And 2040, obviously, was that experiment. But we really saw how it did motivate people to get involved and bring to life some of the solutions that we showed in the film. So I guess this is a kind of another version of that, but closer to home, less global issues and more about our own country and what we could do in the next eight years by by 2030. And again, get people to feel all those benefits that would come from a transition.Dan Ilic  10:36  Certainly, I think one of the one of the reasons why, you know, we're doing this kind of come in conversation theme show today is because the news, quite frankly is so grim right now, like it's a little too hard to kind of talk about I don't know about you, Lewis, I certainly feel like what we're going through right now in the east coast of Australia feels like 2020 bushfires all over again. And and you have a pretty strange connection to this kind of period right now as well.Damon Gameau  11:04  Yeah, I live up there. I've live up I have lived up there for like, the last six years. And yeah, I mean, it's hard to describe, and everyone's sort of heard about it. But it was a bit of a warzone last week just to just to experience a region that runs out of petrol and there's no food on the supermarket shelves and you see roads collapsing and landslides and lose internet and phone connection at the time you actually need it more than ever. It was an extraordinary moment. But I'll tell you that even though we're focusing a lot on, on that dire scenario, just the you know, these stories are now merging about what the community did. I just think that's the silver lining here. That without any help. And without any telecommunications, the kind of coordination and networking efforts that kicked in, we're just really I think there's a lot of lot to learn from what happened in terms of a few people that had satellite connections then took and fed all the things that were needed, they set up hubs, people came to those hubs and said, right, what do you need, I'm here to help. They generated kind of helicopter rides, excess fuel, mattresses, food medicines, had people trekking into rescue people. I mean, it was just an extraordinary decentralised process, where egos were cast aside, if anyone tried to claim ownership that was shunned to the side. And anyone who just you know, it was just get on with it or go away. And just to see humans do that, and have strangers you know, scrubbing the mud off walls, or people I'd never met or cooking meals, or some of the kids just writing messages on the food containers saying, you know, stay well, I hope you well, you know, just remarkable stuff. So this is what we're capable of as human beings. And to be honest, we just deserve so much better because our leaders are the least amongst us. And we and we deserve to be treated as we are, which is good human beings. But unfortunately, our system rewards sociopaths. And they're the ones-Dan Ilic  12:48  that is so true, our system supports sociopathsDamon Gameau  12:53  And at the top and so then they get to set the rules of the game. So we are a group of largely altruists being governed by a small minority of sociopaths. And we've got to change that because if you look at ancient tribes and hunter gatherers, they ostracise that person from the tribe. They ridicule them, or banished them. In some cases, they killed them because then you destabilise the group, and we fucking reward them. And-Dan Ilic  13:16  And the sociopaths started the system, they built the system so they can thrive.Damon Gameau  13:21  Correct! And when are we going to wake up to that, you know, like, it's not just climate. You look across any, any organisation right now, this is just how we operate. If we could change that flawed architecture. We're not going to get anywhereDan Ilic  13:31  The corporate world is filled with psychopaths, like stabbing each other to get to the top. It's just-Damon Gameau  13:36  It's one of the highest rates. Yeah, I think it's 30% in the corporate sector. So-Dan Ilic  13:39  that's how Lewis Hobba got to the top of his industry just by-Lewis Hobba  13:43  Well, yeah, I, I've looked at that I've, I look very worryingly at those Lists, Top 10 lists of sociopaths because it's always like politicians at the top, and then it's just like, comedians are in there. And then it's like, and then there's actually and then there's a special type for radio hosts. And then it goes into people who work in like, the sort of corporate world if I'm like, I feel like I'm ticking quite a few of those boxes.Damon Gameau  14:07  You're gonna get banished Lewis, you're gonna ostracise-Lewis Hobba  14:09  No way. I'm gonna become prime minister. I'll remember this conversation Damon.Dan Ilic  14:12  Damon Gameau, you're on Lewis Hobba's shit list.Lewis Hobba  14:19  From prison Damo. So where are you now, Damon?Damon Gameau  14:24  I'm in downtown Bendigo. So we started to we opened in Sydney on Friday night and then we had an opening in Melbourne on Sunday night. And then we're now on a tour of the country 72 screenings in the lead up to the election and all around so anyone that does want to see the film, come along, check it out, and the great discussion with panel afterwards and some live performers and First Nation speakers and we'd really trying to get people out and about again and communicating and talking face to face and then explaining what regeneration is and what it could be in this country and get them a bit more optimistic.Dan Ilic  14:55  I watched the film this evening it was a delightful kind of very hopeful exercise in really short circuiting your brain into thinking about what could be, and I think thinking about better futures is a whole part of bringing communities with with us on this journey. And I think it's such a really important tool to kind of to do that. I think it's a great little great little bit of content that hopefully folks will will really connect with them. Damon Gameau  15:26  Yeah, that was the point is that how can we, if we can't see it first, and how can we strive for it. And then so much in this climate story, we've told stories of sacrifice and depravity, all the things we have to give up. So people retreat to fear and they shut down and they disengage. And then this is all too hard. But to coax them and bring them along, we've got to show them the opportunities and get them to feel what it would be like to live in that community. And this is based on a- we did a four month listening campaign with a really wide diverse range of Australian's. Dan Ilic  15:54  Hang on, hang on. You go on a listening tour. You're going on a nationwide campaign. Are you gonna be running me running for Parliament Damon?Damon Gameau  16:03  No thanks. I don't have the sociopathic thing like Lewis does.Lewis Hobba  16:07  Yeah, just send me you notes, tell me what you want. Give me your wish list, I'll get it done.Damon Gameau  16:11  It was just I guess that I didn't want it to be my vision. So we went and consulted and asked a whole group of Australians from indigenous groups, to tradies to farmers to teenagers and said, you know, what kind of country do you want in 2030. And so they're the ones that really shaped that narrative. And, and overwhelmingly, they talked about, you know, more thriving communities, a fixed regenerated democracy, amplified indigenous voices, you know, action on climate change all the things we talked about, they were saying in slightly different ways. So farmers were talking about greener hills or clean rivers that existed in Australia 30 years ago, whereas teenagers are saying climate action. So there were just points that we could agree on and find that commonality. And then really, we talked about, you know, let's not make this a feature, because people don't have that capacity anymore to sit down. And, and in this space,Dan Ilic  16:55  It's got to be a TikTok video, it's gotta go on TikTok.Damon Gameau  16:59  Unfortunately that's where we're at, you know, it's like, you know, after everything that's going on, no one's gonna sit down and watch an hour and a half of the reef dying, or the forest burning. We see it so much, that I think we've got to be very strategic with our storytelling in this moment. And, and again, be careful who our messengers are. And that's why you've seen in the film, you know, Kerry O'Brien, Sandra Sully, these people that we've grown up, and we're used to them delivering these messages that we trust, or how about they read these different news stories that hopefully we see in the next 10 years?Dan Ilic  17:26  Yeah. And there's so many folks who you've kind of roped into this Tim Flannery Zali, Steggall, David Pokok. friend of the show, Patrick Abood, Georgie Tunny, yeah, loads, loads and loads and loads of folks, different voices from everywhere, Lewis Hobba  17:40  David, what the- part of the research that you're doing that was talking about community that feels like the more amorphus one that I don't, I'm curious to know what people meant when they were talking about that. Damon Gameau  17:52  So I guess a lot of the people we met in regional areas, were saying, you know, that we missed the Lions Club with a sports club where you could all go and get together and exchange face to face. And there was this huge, you know, community spirit, like I talked about in the Northern Rivers right now of people coming together and interacting and helping, and that happened after the fires. But as soon as COVID kicked in all that dissipated, and people went back into their homes, they went online, they started reading different narratives about what was going on. And it just destroyed and broke all that fabric of the community. So that's what they want back. It's like, we want to be able to walk down the street and know the person who the, butcher and know the guy who does the newspaper. And it's just that sense, they want back. And because of this system that's eroded that and stripped it and jobs have been taken out of those communities, we've got this chance if we are going to move to a low carbon economy, to bring and keep the profits in those communities. You know, this is where Helen Haynes and others are doing a great job where they're saying, Well, if you're going to build a solar farm in our community, how about we propose a bill that keeps 20% of the profits in our community. So all that money isn't just leaving this space, I think that's how we've got to think about this holistically. It's not about just getting to net zero as fast as we can, we've got to do it in a way that's equitable, that restores lands, and that keeps these communities thriving. So so we don't go down an American Road where these people were left behind, and they're voting for authoritarian nutjobs. Because they feel they feel neglected, you know, and we've got to do that in this country and make sure we listen to these people.Dan Ilic  19:15  Totally 100%. And there's so many great little examples of where that stuff is already happening where community owned power is happening, like, you know, Hepburn Springs and other folks, other folk places like that. Yeah, we're, we're folks have- own their own batteries, own our own windmills, own their own grid systems. And they are in charge of their own destiny, and they are making bank like making money by selling that electricity to other cities next door, like-Damon Gameau  19:43  There's a project and solar project down in Canada where they had, like 260,000 investors, so they did an equity crowd fund so that all the community could buy a bit of that energy like, that's the future. You know, that's because we don't want to get to net zero and have this enormous income inequality and a fractured society. That's just it's not theirs. point,Dan Ilic  20:00  if you want to buy a bit of a rational fear's energy, just go to arationalfear.com join up to the Patreon cheap in $3 a month. You can be a shareholder of a rational fear.Lewis Hobba  20:11  It's just like microbreweries for power.Damon Gameau  20:15  Exactly. Decentralise it.Lewis Hobba  20:17  Obviously, opinions and voices that you listen to that made the film were very positive. And you know, you had the vision that they had. Was there anyone out there going? You know what, at 2030? I just want to have some nutjob in charge. I don't want to have it. I don't have to make any decision. I just want the lizard people gotten rid of like, Was there anyone out there who were like, Whoa, we'll take that on board. Damon Gameau  20:39  There were a couple of loose cannons. And they were just talking about it was more that they'd given up. They were like, you know, I appreciate what you're trying to do. But we're fucked, you know, like, there's nothing we can do that sort of, and that's really dangerous, right? That nihilism where you do just retreat, and Netflix and mobiles. And while it's all too hard, and to be honest, that is a narrative that's been perpetuated by the fossil fuel industry through the since the 90s. Because they know if people don't think it's possible, they'll just disengaged and shut off and won't even care. So there was a bit of that. And it really was down to the disillusionment around our democracy and how much money is in the system. Now, no one really represents their values, which, again, is why I think we're just seeing this incredible resurgence of independence, because these are people that genuinely represent their their values. And we've got people like Helen or Cathy McGowan that are taking their constituents into Parliament House to teach them about democracy, rotate people and what, that's democracy. And so when people see that they go, Alright, I want some of that instead of this stiff, you know, posturing, spin Hardy nonsense, we've got the so long in this country, people are just fed up, you know, so I think this is an incredible moment really quite potentially historic moment in our country where we had Simon Holmes a court on our panel the other night in Melbourne, and even he's saying how surprised he is at the momentum they've gained, and that, you know, seven to nine of them have a legitimate shot, they're far ahead of the expectations where he thought they'd be so far out if we had three or four independence win. We would potentially wake up to a different country the next day and head off in a very different direction around climate. So you know, it is important, this is a big moment for our country.Dan Ilic  22:10  Damon, can I just ask you something? You're just an actor? What do you know?Damon Gameau  22:16  You're right, mate, I'm just an actor. I'm actually a dad who just is scared shitless. And so I went and spoke to a shit tonne of scientists over the last six years, and just tried to help the communication process because as you know, we love these scientists are so amazing. Sometimes they speak in a language that's just like, Hmm, we don't know what 1.5 degree means. We don't want to anthropogenic means we don't know what Net Zero even means. Most of us. So I think, you know, artists, musicians, songwriters going to help those scientists and, and try and disseminate some of that complexity and put it into language that might help people or move them emotionally. Yeah, I just want more filmmakers to do that. So that's my role. I don't pretend to be the expert in this stuff. But I just happen to speak regularly to some incredible people around the world that really, you know, fuel me up and keep me going. And I just want to help amplify their messagesLewis Hobba  23:04  The vision that you have in the film, is there like, I guess I don't know is is that possible? Like, is it? Is it pure fantasy? Is it like, let's try it, let's aim for the stars and land on the cloud or whatever? Or a scientist going like, no, no, no, like, with the right will, this is actually achievable in this time.Damon Gameau  23:24  100%. So we made sure that everything there is already happening or scalable. And it is, as Dan mentioned, there are solar gardens there, there's a you know, a Bi- Bi Directional charge that goes into a battery to to power your home. But that's already here that you can do that in a Nissan LEAF right now. In fact, that battery is about three or four times bigger than a power wall Tesla Powerwall that you'll get some people already charging up their car that the local charging station and then running that outside. Already, it's just scaling up all these things. Dan Ilic  23:53  I love those. I love that love going to Westfield a charge up my car to bring it home to run the house. Thank you Hoyts.Lewis Hobba  24:02  Yeah, it's really changing the perception of like living in your van you're like, Well, I'm living in my in my car, but it's kind of just my Nissan lease which is also my house. Very confusing.Damon Gameau  24:12  This is how transformation this could be we show in the film that for tradies, you know, you can go on plug in all your power tools run the generator off off the battery in your ute. I mean that's, that's on our doorstep, it's already happening in America and other countries. So absolutely. It had to feel plausible and real. Otherwise, it's what's the point but if it's too utopian and too far removed, then then it's impossible goal and people would switch off from it. So no, it's very tangible and practical,Dan Ilic  24:36  Damon, I don't know if you know, this podcast is all about kind of communicating similar messages. We have had lots of great brains on the show. And in the last few years talking about this. In fact, the name a rational fear stems from the idea back in 2012, when we started the show that no one in the media was talking about climate change. And all they were talking about were irrational fears. So we wanted to talk about the rational fears So no feels like we know for 10 years this podcast has been, you know, part of that conversation. It feels like right now there is a huge momentum and you can feel it. You can you can feel it in the streets. I was at the pub today. And I saw two old blokes who were on the table next to me. And they were just talking about the floods that we're talking about the lack of funding for the floods, and then they launched into a complex analysis of Mike cannon Brooks's deal with AGL. And these guys are like, 7080 a couple of beers in going out. Yeah, they, you know, buy the whole thing. Shut it down. Start something brand new. That's not just like, oh my god, that is that was a moment for me today. I was like, this could be something extraordinary right now.Damon Gameau  25:45  Yeah, it reminds me Paul Hawken, who I work with a lot he's he always says this is that the weather isn't going to the weather is going to be the thing that makes this the great the biggest moment in human history. Because each time we have a big event like this, you lose another chunk of deniers and more people come on side I think right? Okay. There was a big flood at least more than we had a fire now we've got another flood. All right. This is a bit unusual. That's another record flood. I've never seen that in Sydney running down the streets and manly. So you start to go okay, maybe this isn't we were we don't need to believe a paper or IPCC report, we can actually feel it in our shoes and see it running down the street. So yeah-Dan Ilic  26:20  It speaks to resilience right now. Right? Like it speaks- like people are saying this in the like, you know, I'm in the position now where I'm looking at buying houses, like, houses. A house to live in. And so it's one of those things where I'm like, right, okay, where do we live? Where's climate resilient? Where do we buy? How do we when we buy how do we how do we make our house climate resilient to be, you know, safe against bush fires and floods and? And COVID?Damon Gameau  26:46  Yeah, it's, it's Yeah. And again, I think that the people in Lismore than some of my friends is that they're not going to build their they rebuilt five years ago. And now they're thinking, Where the hell are we going to go? So we've got legitimate climate refugees in this country right. Now, you could argue that Mallacoota and those bushfires the same, but absolutely, Lismore. Like Norco, which is the big built company there, they're not going to stay there, they're going to go somewhere else. Why would you rebuild there because you know, what's coming. So, you know, that's the dilemma we have now here, because we've left it so late, we've got to also mitigate while we're implementing the solutions at the same time, so there's this huge infrastructure that has to happen to protect us from what's coming. But at the same time, we need to sort of flip all of our systems, but, you know, I think we can do it. I absolutely think we can do it because of that groundswell that's now there, and more and more people are on board.Dan Ilic  27:33  And so may is going to be a real crunch time. And if it feels like the last chance, like May, the May election, honestly, for Australia is short and important election for Australia. But I feel like honestly, it is a very important election for the world. Because it'll determine how much giga tonnes of carbon get released from Australia and get put into the atmosphere all from the being burnt all around the world. That is our carbon. And it feels like this election in Australia is, is probably the one of the most important in the world. We'll alsoLewis Hobba  28:08  Because we're such we drag our feet so much in any sort of international conference that people end up like lowering the bar of expectation to meet our low bar. Yeah. So it's not just Australia, it does affect the worldDan Ilic  28:19  Totally right. And Damon, I loved in your video, you had a line in there that I'm pretty fond of, which is we need to lead our leaders. And I think that is a really lovely, really lovely sentiment. And it's something that I've been thinking a lot, particularly since cop, you know about that, you know,Damon Gameau  28:36  Well, this is how history has always worked. Historically, there's never been a government that sort of set off in a direction. It's always come from pressure. And that's, you know, whether that's the human rights movement, or the suffragettes or the abolitionist, whatever it is, they've always put the pressure and then finally, they've succumbed. I mean, my favourite story is this, the suffragettes, which, obviously, in the light of 19th century, were right on the cusp of something, and even the President Grover Cleveland, in 1905, who was the US president said, no sensible woman wants to vote. And then 10 years later, look, this has happened before and, and again, with the abolitionist, all those people that didn't want to change was saying, if we give up slaves, the other country will have an economic advantage, exactly what we're saying about fossil fuels. And then that shifted so quickly. So you know, we've just got to keep going. And we've just got to trust that the dam wall is going to break very soon. And you can feel it right now. The discussions in politics discussion, the corporate sector has never been higher in terms of what's going on. And, and I think a lot of these groups that I speak to, they want to change, they're just so enmeshed in the old system, and the structures and the policies that are protected that old system that they're really struggling to know how to get out of it and unravelled quickly. And so that's the dilemma for a lot of them, but they are having the conversations even, you know, top banks, all these kind of organisations, because they've got kids and they can see the floods, they know what's happening. Yeah, so I guess that gives me hope that it just we're not too far away from what could be a really dramatic change in the direction we head.Dan Ilic  30:05  I saw Matt Canavan put out a an article this week saying that ESG accounting is going to bring evil upon the world. ESG is environmental, sustainable and governance accounting. And it's the way all these big institutions are moving, moving away from gross profit accounting and profits. They're they they're trying to think about ways to account for the good of a business aside from profit. And it's just so funny that Matt Canavan said, this new way is actually going to bring evil upon the world. When the evil right now that is facing the world is due to people like Matt Canavan and fossil fuels, you know?Damon Gameau  30:42  Yeah, it's extraordinary, and just how interconnected like that was, what shocked me was just once it was really laid there, how much money was invested in Russian oil and gas and drum companies all around the world, and countries and even our own country, you know, some of our biggest super funds, you know, huge hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars, propping up this war machine. Let's be frank 40% of Russians, incomes comes from their coal and gas, oil and gas. So we have to be very honest about what our money is doing, and be very smart about and really think about what impact it's having if we're really going to believe in ESGs, where we're being exposed right now with climate and the war. Is that where is your money? And what's it actually contributing to?Dan Ilic  31:20  Yeah, the big stat is that, you know, Australia is the third largest exporter of fossil fuels behind Saudi Arabia and Russia. But now that Russia isn't selling, does that make us a second baby? Yeah. Great, we're moving up the table of bad people.Lewis Hobba  31:38  Yeah, well, I mean, obviously, noted, climate hero, Elon Musk this week was also tweeting. He's like, look guys. I don't want to say it, but we got to start getting more oil and gas out of the ground. Say, you own an electric car company. That's, that's your business? Yeah, it's not not on that one.Dan Ilic  31:58  Hey, Damon, thank you very much. Before we go, you know, we were in conversation on October around the around COP 26. When the a rational fear joke keeper billboard campaign, funded by 2000 Australians went into high gear,Damon Gameau  32:15  Is this how you're buying your houses? Is this how you're getting your houses, through do that campaign?Dan Ilic  32:19  How much do you think $190,000 buys in billboards? You know, every- here's the thing, you know, Clive Palmer, spending $80 million in advertising. And they're like, every time somebody sees an ad, someone tags me and it's like, oh, Daniel, you need to buy a billboard here. And like, dude, the billboard money's gone like this. I've spent it all on billboards, it doesn't buy you very much.Lewis Hobba  32:41  You could just buy six billboards Dan and shape them into a sort of long house.Dan Ilic  32:46  I bought about 25 billboards or something like that, you know. So there's that. That's how much it gets. Yes. But billboards in Times Square are expensive people. It's very expensive. But one of the billboards we tried to get was actually animating our billboards on the side of the SEC armadillo in in Glasgow, but it didn't kind of come to fruition. Damo, tell us what happened there. Like, you know, I went on the project, I put my personal integrity on the line. Er;;, you know, people go on the project, they do that, too. It's a risk, it's a risk. But I put my personal integrity on the line, and Australian media told people that we would animate the billboard outside of the Convention Centre, what happened there,Damon Gameau  33:27  I have to I have to publicly apologise to you. And I felt such waves of shame around that, because I was telling you the story that we were invited by COP too... So they basically said to us, you've got four hours to project whatever you like on the Friday night, primetime with all the delegates there, you can project whatever you like, on the building. And so that's when I reached out to you. And then we started sending their proposals and they said, saying, yeah, no, you can't do that. That's we'd modify it. And they'd say, no, no, you can't do that. And so we just got this watered down. And it really, to be honest, really exposed how inadequate copies and it makes sense, because we've had 26 of them and our emissions have raised, you know, almost 50%, since we've had them, but just their their lack of willingness to actually call out the truth. We even got to a point when we said, can we just list the top three emitters of fossil fuels and like, you know, Russia, Australia, and now you can't even do that. Can we even have this young Australian say I hope my leaders switch to more renewable energy and utilise all the sun now you can't do that. So, really demoralising process for us. So we ended up doing this really saccharin safe, you know, eco porn shots of last nature and whales. Like just like-Dan Ilic  34:37  Beyond petroleum.Damon Gameau  34:40  I was really sad actually. And we had some really, you know, heated debates of them saying Here we are, like, really? You've just had an IPCC report saying a code read for humanity. And we can't even you know, we're our hands are tied so I apologise mate because I really did think we had a great chance to do something exciting there. And we just got absolutely COP washedDan Ilic  35:01  Yeah, COP. Yeah. That's totally fine. Like, and when you said, Oh yeah, you can do whatever you want. I was like, No, he's not. No, he's wrong about that. He hasn't he hasn't done a lot of these UN things in the past as he, you know, is this his first rodeo, I don't know. I don't think soDamon Gameau  35:19  Why, they said it. Those are the exact words. And they said, Yeah, please go, we want to be edgy. We want to be bold. So okay, here's someLewis Hobba  35:27  Classic client.Dan Ilic  35:28  Damon, thank you so much for coming on and telling us about your region project. What's the name of the film, actually,Damon Gameau  35:34  it's called Regenerating Australia. And we're touring the country right now. And I, what I didn't say, which is really exciting is that WWF put up $2 million as a fund, off the back of it. So any community that watches the film and sees something that resonates like a community battery, or an urban food project, they can apply for that money, and there's that money and there's subject matter experts to take them through the process, develop the idea. So really, again, this is this idea of taking the power back into our own hands and getting it done ourselves. So really, that's why we're encouraging people to come along and I must admit, even since the floods, just the, the screens have been a lot more full and really great questions. So it's a good night to have a discussion about where we're headed.Lewis Hobba  36:13  What's next on you tour? What are the next couple of dates? Damon Gameau  36:16  Shepparton tomorrow. Then Yakkandana. And then through other parts of Banala, and then back through Melbourne, then into Sydney then regional New South Wales, Queensland, WA, Tassi,e South Australia. We're doing it all just try and get it done before the election.Dan Ilic  36:30  Amazing. Well, good luck and I hope to catch a screening in Sydney that'll be there'll be absolutely awesomeDamon Gameau  36:39  Jump on a panel if you want to come and be part of the conversationDan Ilic  36:42  Mate I'm just a comedian I don't know what's, what's fucking going onDamon Gameau  36:44  Cause you've got so much timeDan Ilic  36:49  There was a, Peter Fitzsimons put out a tweet earlier this week saying which comedians are like Zelinsky that we can follow into battle I'm gonna put up Mark Humphreys and Dan Ilic and I was like yeah, Dan Ilic. I'm like no, no, don't I- I don't want to lead us into battle thanks very much. I'm doing really Damon Gameau  37:11  I'm buying a new houseDan Ilic  37:11  Yeah, I'm really busy. Yeah, buying multiple houses and and I've got to get an asai bowl and yeah,Lewis Hobba  37:17  I spent the last week trying to buy the last dehumidifier in Sydney so got no time to run for PM.Dan Ilic  37:23  Oh, do you do you have mushrooms in your ceiling yet? Louis?Lewis Hobba  37:27  I have my house is riddled with mould. Oh never experienced anything like it. Yeah. And obviously again goes without saying in the spectrum of people suffering this country. I am not in on the list. Dan Ilic  37:38  No. Yeah. Lewis Hobba  37:39  But yeah, never never experienced anything like this. It's um, yeah, and everyone knows everyone I've spoken to in Sydney. It's just my jeans have got mould my shoes have got mould. And he's just fucking covered in mould. It's like it's the weight. I'm like I feel like this is you know, in War of the Worlds when you like, the thing that brought them down in the end was not even the aliens. It was the particles, like, fuck, where the aliens? There's gonna be fucking black mould we're all gonna drop dead.Dan Ilic  38:04  Lewis, that's it. The thing that brought us down is co2.Lewis Hobba  38:07  Yeah, I know. It's like, Fuck, I was worried about the nuclear war. It should have been the fucking mould.Dan Ilic  38:12  I did the briefing podcast about the news. Tom Tilly had me on a few weeks ago. And he grilled me as if I was a politician about climate change being an election issues like but Dan, do people really care about climate change? And like, Tom, yeah, they do. It's like, what's your proof? Like, he was like grilling me as if I was on to 2GB. And I was Gladys Berejiklian. Like it was it was. I know, Tom. I'm friendly with Tom. I would like to think we were friends. But the grilling was so bad. I walked away going What the fuck just happened there? Why did I get grilled so bad about climate change being an election issue? And it was of course, before these floods and before La Nina. Yeah. And it fucking is an election issue. I reckon it's the number one election issue around the country right now.Lewis Hobba  38:58  Well, the other crazy thing is obviously Tom's a very dear friend of mine. But hey, we were Triple J for many years together. And every year hack would do a giant survey of the entire country of being like, what is the number one issue? And for young Australians every fucking year for like the last five years? It's been climate change. He's seen the research. He knows. He sees the same research. We get told that every year Oh my God. Oh, myDan Ilic  39:21  God. Damon, thank you so much. We'll put the links to folks where folks can go see Regenerate Australia in the show notes. So please go check that out. How can people support you otherwise Damon Gameau  39:30  Take some action on climate change. That'd be good. I've got a few social media accounts. And then we have a platform called the regenerators, which we're just about to launch, which is a big hub for Regenerative storytelling and actions linked to organisations that are doing things we've got a new sort of social platform where you can share ideas of people right around the world that are doing these kinds of solutions and learn from them. And so that all comes online in two weeks. So look out for that the regenerated, excellentDan Ilic  39:52  a new social media platform. Well, I can't wait to get on there and share some views about ivermectin. Damon Gameau  39:57  No, it's a social action platform.Dan Ilic  39:58  Oh okay. Alright.Damon Gameau  40:00  It's for people that actually do stuff, which I think we really need right now. Please yeah, jump on and start an ivermectin pod and a hydric- hydrochloric oxiquilin or whatever it's called.Dan Ilic  40:11  That's it for a rational fear. Big thank you to all of our Patreon members. Thank you so much also to the Bertha Foundation, Jacob Round of Tepanyaki timeline. Rode mics we have comedy festival tickets on sale now please check out arationalfear.com for that information or comedy.com.au you for that information. And just reminding everyone once again, it's the biggest room in Melbourne, and we really need you to buy tickets.Lewis Hobba  40:35  But genuinely it's gonna be amazing. Like, I was shocked like I was excited about about doing the show love going back to you know, the my birthplace to do comedy. Yeah, loving it. But then when I saw that lineup, I was like, Oh, this would be fucking great. Everyone should come to this. We hadDan Ilic  40:51  sometimes a code on our on our comedy festival show last year, and that was awesome. This year. Right? Grace, Grace is actually going to do comedy. She's not an interview guest. She's actually going to do comedy. I think Grace time is one of the funniest people.Lewis Hobba  41:03  I know. She's gonna be so much funnier thank us. It's gonna be fucking demoralising. It's gonna be like, obviously, it's gonna be a hobby for you, and you better at it than me.Dan Ilic  41:18  It's really good. I'm excited and hopefully we can get Grace, Gabby and Alice to maybe collab something that will be fun. Also, I'm going to try and find one. There's like we got one spot left on stage. So I'm going to be hunting down one more big awesome name to join us onLewis Hobba  41:33  Dave Hughes ladies and gents.Dan Ilic  41:37  I saw Dave Hughes down the road in Bondi Beach the other day and he's like, Dan, what are you doing? I'm just going for a swim. I'm like come on the podcast. He's like you've got my details, just tell me like, I think I'll lose some patreon supporters if you come on the podcast Dave.Lewis Hobba  41:52  You'll fill out the Forum in 30 seconds.Dan Ilic  41:55  Big thank you to everyone. Thank you so much for joining us for this great conversation. And Damon, good luck with the tour.Damon Gameau  42:00  Thanks. All the bestTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREThis is the 4th Episode of the monthly spin-off podcast from A Rational Fear:Julia Zemiro Asks 'Who Cares?' Each month for the next 3 months on the A Rational Fear podcast feed, Julia interviews change makers, civic leaders, and people who organise their communities and claim their power to discover the secrets to making good things happen.This month Julia chats with two artists who have built extraordinary communities around their craft, how both these artists have shown leadership and helped their respective communities thrive in times of crisis.Jen Cloher (Ngāpuhi & Ngati Kahu) — is a highly respected recording and performing artist living on unceded Wurundjeri land in Naarm (Melbourne) Australia. Cloher is co-founder of Milk! Records (Courtney Barnett, Tiny Ruins, Hand Habits) and I Manage My Music, a masterclass series for self-managed artists to assist self-managed artists with the challenges of creating and releasing music in Australia.“When an artist stands up on a stage, we invite everyone in that room to tap into what it is to be human, which is something politicians are not capable of doing because they're not connected. They've got their own agenda, they're not there to bring us together”— Jen Cloheralso we hear from:Astrid Jorgensen — Founding Director of Pub Choir™and its COVID adaptation, Couch Choir. She is also a co-creator of Australia's Biggest Singalong which aired on SBS TV in 2021.“It's not about competing, there is no way to win. All we can do is work together. And the sum is always greater than the parts. If you have honest and optimistic leadership.” — Astrid JorgensenI hope you enjoy these conversations with two great artists building community and helping other to thrive culturally and financially.Kindest of Regards,Dan IlicIf you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261And subscribe to our Patreon so we can keep making shows like this for you:https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearTHANK YOU TOJulia, Jen, & Astrid.Rode Microphones,The Bertha Foundation,Jacob Round.Jess Harwood for the amazing artwork.and our Patreon Supporters.Julia Zemiro  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birther foundation. Hi, Julia Zemiro Here, I'm recording this podcast on the land of the Gandangara people. Sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the podcast,Dan Ilic  0:15  a podcast about politics for people who hate politics. This is Julia Zemiro asks, Who cares?Julia Zemiro  0:24  Well, hello everyone. 2022 Can you believe it? Welcome back to Julia Zemiro asks, Who cares? And you know what it turns out quite a lot of people do. Today I'm talking to two incredible artists who care create and want others to experience that creativity to the both musicians Jen Cloher and Astrid Jorgensen. The Creator and conductor of public choir, but first up, Jen Cloher Ngāpuhi & Ngati Kahu who their most recent self titled album debuted at number five on the ARIA Charts and received rave reviews. And they were crowned double Jays Australian artist of the year. Now on top of that, Jen is a co founder of The Independent Melbourne label milk records and created I managed my music, a masterclass series for self manage artists just to get them on top of what it means to run your own business in music. We talk acting schools, impressing your heroes, all the training and belief that goes into being an artist, longevity, and why more than ever, we need culture to turn to. It's so good to seeJen Cloher  1:32  you. So good to see you. Like truly,Julia Zemiro  1:36  I mean, one of the joys of Rockwell's has been to have these incredible musicians just just a hand spin away from me onstage, and you've given me some of the best moments in my performing life. chanclaJen Cloher  1:49  Oh, that is so sweet. That really actually means a lot because I know you've seen many people come through the hallowed halls.Julia Zemiro  1:57  And what people might not know is my thrill to when Jen was on the desk, answering questions. And just the newest stuff is that of course you do a little biog and you'd been an acting student, you'd gone through NIDA and I was fascinated that there was someone who had trained as an actor, and then had become a musician. And I just think it's an excellent thing. And I know you didn't have a fabulous time there. Not everyone has a fabulous time at acting school. I did I did have a good time at acting school. But I do think that there are things you can learn at those places that are about asking yourself questions about who you are and how you move through the world.Jen Cloher  2:35  Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think if anything, what, what happens go did you go to or did you go to WhopperJulia Zemiro  2:41  CCI? They say, hey, what I love is you've said Whopper because you've obviously assuming I sing well, I don't know VCA I mean audition for NIDA too. And, you know, I got through. I mean, in case people don't realize, you know, you audition and then you might get through to the afternoon where you'll do a your third piece because you've done your first two in the morning. And I'd got through the afternoon I was convinced I was in. I mean, the process isn't finished. And then you have to go back the next week. And I didn't get in. And they tried again the following year, didn't even get through the afternoon. But by then for audition for VCA. And I was so delighted by the audition process at VCA. I was so hooked. I thought on no now I really want this. And then when I got in I was pretty, pretty excited. And it turned out to be a good a good time a good. I think I figured I feel like I learned how to learn. They'reJen Cloher  3:39  beautiful. Yeah, I think like it taught me a lot about the industry. Maybe more so than about who I am. I think some ways I think in some ways I wasn't ready for that school. And I didn't have enough understanding of who I was. And so it really threw me or it threw me. When I was at NIDA there was the head of acting was a man called Kevin Jackson KJ as we affectionately called him and he was actually incredibly well read and was like a kind of dramaturg style kind of actor and he just knew so much about playwriting and playwrights and was one of those people that was like, include the commas don't add words respect the text, you know, the writers intention love to check off you know, one of those guys and I, I sort of like at that I was only 19 I kind of wasn't I was very young but winter fire sort of parental FIDE some of the teaching staff there. And I kind of looked up to him as like this scary Dad and I wanted to impress him and their whole kind of thing there is sort of saying what you're good And then making you do the stuff you're not good at. So they kept throwing me into like, what gowns and making me have these romantic scenes with men and be all gushy and cry and, you know, like, just not my strength. And I felt kind of almost like I was in drag. That's how far away it felt from my experience. Like, like, I was like dressing up in dress to do this thing. Anyway, he gave me this scene, and it like, broke me. And I just got this massive resentment against him. And I remember sort of at the end of, I think it was the end of first year he said, you know, you won't you don't you won't even look at me in the eyes when you walk down the hallway. And I was like, and like, that's how much shame I was carrying around not being good enough for Kevin Jackson. Anyway. I think it was three years ago, four years ago. I'm performing at the Lansdowne hotel upstairs. They had this band room. I think they've closed now which is very sad. And it was with my band. Courtney on guitar bones on bass shallaki on drums, amazing band. We've just been touring all around the world. So we were like on fire. Yeah. And we went out and we just we had two nights the Lansdowne nice little room Pat great energy. Absolutely blazed, felt amazing. Came offstage. And then someone came to the door, I think one of the merch, cute merch crew. And they were like, ah, there's a there's a man here called Kevin, who wants to say hello. And I was like,Julia Zemiro  6:42  I don't know, Kevin. I can.Jen Cloher  6:44  Okay. Who the hell is Kevin? Anyway? This this elderly man, elderly, like early 70s. I would say now, yeah, comes to the door. And it's Kevin Jackson. Oh, my God, my acting teacher. And he'd come along with a couple of friends who like we're gonna go and see Janklow we've got an extra ticket. And he was like, yeah, absolutely. I'll come and see Jen cloth. And he was just like, lit up. He was like, That was incredible. I loved that performance, like, blown away. Right. But here's the great bit. The next I think it was like two days later, I saw this Google Alert come up in my mail, because I have a Google alert on my name, you know, like to know what's been written about me out there. 100%Julia Zemiro  7:35  one that got sent.Jen Cloher  7:37  And there was a he has this website where he reviews like Sydney Theatre Company that did it did. And they're amazing reviews. They're not like some weirdo that's just writing some, you know what I mean? Like, they're really great reviews, but they're not for, you know, for the media, Vine passion project that people read them, you know, people who know read them. And he'd reviewed my gig. Online, never reviewed any music show ever. I was like, wow, rectally theater, and he had reviewed my gig as though it were a theater piece. And he was talking about like, how I embodied things. Like my strength and bla bla bla bla bla, and how Courtney was riding with the guitar, you know, it was like, the most incredible review and he loved it. And it was so beautiful and healing for me, because if there was one thing that KJ said, that stuck with me, from 25 years ago, whenever I was there, he was like, you know, your whole role as an artist is to create a body of work. That is what you will be remembered for a body of work. And it occurred to me after reading this review that he had finally come to see me as an artist that went on to create a body of work. You know, I was presenting my fourth album at that time, and I had stayed consistently with my practice. And it was just like the most beautiful kind of full circle experience to have. And and of course you have it when I would no longer care less what Kevin Jackson would think. Yeah, but to have that kind of reflected back. I think he's there just those milestones in your life as a performer.Julia Zemiro  9:26  That's made me a little bit teary, because I think too, you know, we're talking about what our significance is in society as people who make and when I say the word art, don't run away, don't switch off. Art is lots of things. It's music, it's theater, it's it's cheap theater down the road, in a pub. It's expensive theater that a lot of people can't afford and they could possibly make that cheaper. It's opera, it's dance, it's DJing it's every it's everything that is mapable that you make to watch performance. So when we say they aren't. But when people say you love what you do you your privilege to go and do it, you go well, it can also be a calling. And if you aren't good at it and you love what you do well, why wouldn't you stay with this thing that is bringing you real life experience and making you kind of turned on. So I can turn you on and do something for you to forget your day, or to give you something else to think about or to discover something about yourself. I feel like post COVID What's going to happen next, we didn't get in general, this didn't get job caper? What are we going to do next? Like how do we I'm, I'm now what's the point of making anything if people don't value it, and I mean, from a government level to a crowd level,Jen Cloher  10:45  you know, something that I observed throughout COVID, you know, in my industry, which is the music industry, you know, there's younger artists in my sphere, some of whom I've mentored, or worked with, either from a business angle, or from helping produce their music or whatever, whatever they kind of come to me to assist with. And I produced an album with Alice Skye, an amazing songwriter, we're Gaya, Wemba, Wemba woman from Horsham in Victoria. And also there's another great band called cable ties punk band, and also had chikoo, which is Annika ostendorf, which is a ban on milk records. And they're all kind of around a similar age. On that sort of second, you know, about to launch their second album had like, lined up labels overseas booking agents overseas, going to South by Southwest, you know, it was an it takes many, many, many years to get to that place where you are ready to launch your music into the world. And they're all, you know, like world class artists. And then I just saw everything just collapse and keep collapsing. I remember when we thought COVID was going to go like, we're like, oh, we should probably be back up during by like July, August, when we thought it was going to go for three months. Yeah. And that was a long time. Yeah, I know. I know. So that was kind of, you know, in that last dayJulia Zemiro  12:23  window there haven't like, that's not this incredible window, they've lostJen Cloher  12:26  this opportunity. And all of the money and the support and the time and the planning that goes into that moment. And to build that back up again, is the thing that I think I have concerns about is that you kind of lose these young artists, energetically and financially, because of what they've had to go through. In the mental, you know, like, it was a really, really, really hard time. And I think, you know, most people probably wouldn't know about it, because, you know, they don't have mates that are touring around in bands for the main part, right?Julia Zemiro  13:08  Yeah. When you know, that whole sections of people, certainly in the arts industry, who have had to give it up and get another job completely, two years. I mean, you just can't get by. And even with all the pleading that we did, because that's what we have to always do is plead. When we you know, appeal to the government and said, you know, the flick of a pen, you genuinely could just change this, you could just go, oh, my gosh, artists or whatever, yes. All right, you get it to that didn't happen either. And you haveJen Cloher  13:38  theories as to why oh, great, please begets Well, that's, it's no mistake. That is that is a planned. That is that is you know, you make decisions about who you're going to fund and who you're not going to fund then, as you said, there's a flick of the pen. And I think that, you know, artists are the enemy. Because we think we speak truth to power. And to have to give those people a voice is threatening. And you might be like, Oh, get off it, like as if, but no, I really believe that. We have an immense power we have an we have immense reach. We have audiences, we're influences, you know, wherever that is these days, politics and politicians, particularly the current government cannot totally scared of us. It is not an industry they want to fund. You know, you think of like, anthems like you're the Indies trading, you know, or Ruby hunters down city streets or cold chisels flame trees, or in excess Niger tonight, or what's that great in excess one that's like didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't didn't. Like who hasn't dropped down, I know that and cried in their lounge room at some point in my life, like, we shaped culture, we shaped culture through emotional connection. And that's what they're scared of. Because when an artist stands up on a stage, we invite everyone in that room to tap into what it is to be human, which is something politicians are not capable of doing because they're not connected. They've got their own agenda, they're not there to bring us together. I think that the mystery and appreciation of culture is led by our our cultural leaders, and and our politicians. And, you know, you were speaking before about how artists are viewed in France, and you often hear Australian artists coming home and saying, oh, you know, touring through Europe was amazing, we get to the venue, there'd be home cooked food for soundcheck, you'd play a show, you'd have a meal, like it was an endless stream of good alcohol, but no one got really smashed. And, you know, we were really taken care of. And I think that, that that's embedded in culture, because of the way that culture is viewed. And I think the thing that we need to remember is, and I think this is really, these are big conversations, but you know, it needs to come from our leaders, because we have, you know, it's a colonized nation state. We colonized here, 234 years ago, there was an already existing culture, that we basically built structures that they could not could not access. And, you know, all of the things that went around land stealing, you know, murder, let's just call it what it was. Yeah, it was really happening. Yes. And the issue that I think we have, that's very different to France, where you have Molly air, and the French impressionists, and centuries of culture embedded into the very fabric of existence, that's what culture is, we shouldn't call it art, its culture. Yeah. Because we have come from so many different places all around this world. And some of us have come with culture, that many of us have forgotten what that culture was, we've had to assimilate. You know, like, a lot of migrants were encouraged to assimilate whatever that means. We've given up identities to become white. There's many things that have happened. And what we find ourselves in is easy, you know, this so called multicultural country, but actually, a lot of people don't know, their culture, or where they've come from. And so the actual kind of colonized version of culture here is 200 years old, and it doesn't, whatever was it, you know, it's not like, we know, you know, like, as, as British people back, you know, back in the empire know, Shakespeare and the Bard, and, you know, there's this Wordsworth and you know, there's a sense of who we are as a people, and we have marmalade andAustralians, as a people. But when you kind of break it down, it's like, is it a barbecue? What, what, how are we? You know, and I think until we actually ask those questions, and kind of like, maybe realize that we don't quite know who we are culturally. We sort of don't value it. But this is the beautiful thing is, I really believe each and every person has the ability, unless they were adopted, and they don't know who their birth parents are. And my heart is heavy for those people. Has not just the ability but the privilege to find out who they are and where they came from. And here's the other really interesting thing. Do you know what, guess a couple of languages in the world that are teetering on the edge of extinction?Julia Zemiro  19:41  Well, most of indigenous languages I would assume,Jen Cloher  19:45  is bang on do you know which ones they are? No, Celtic, and Gaelic, what? And I would say jority of white Australians in this in this country. hail from either Celtic or Gaelic roots in some capacity. And I just sort of think like, you actually have the opportunity to go and connect with a language that your ancestors once spoke, and find out through ancestry.com, email that relative in I don't know, some remote part of Ireland, like, go and do some work to find out who you are and where you came from and know something about your culture, and how you came to be here. And if you were settlers, and if you were colonizers, and there's a dark past, that's okay. No, you didn't make it happen. But you are responsible for the future, you get to determine that future. And I really, really wholeheartedly believe that everyone has the opportunity to reclaim who they are. Because I don't actually believe first of all that Australia exists. It's an it's a concept, because there was already a country here, much like Europe, you know, full of different nations, I don't think French and Italian people see themselves as the same people, and neither did the 500 Plus language groups that we hear on this country. Absolutely. But I think that the issue that we have is that we've tried to make up a culture that never existed. And that's not to say that there isn't a making and weaving of that culture. But unless we know where we came from, and who our people were, how can we create anything that we feel connected to. And the reason I've been learning today on Maori and, you know, involving myself and taking part in cultural practice, which is available to me here in Nam In Melbourne, is because the more that I know who I am, and how I am connected, and the line of amazing people that I have come through in their connection to land, the more I care, more I care about you, the more I care about the river down the end of the street, the Mary Mary Mary Creek, the more I care about community, you know, it stops just being about me, my great, great grandmother, Martha to pay would have only have spoken to real Maori, and she was born in 1860. My great, my great grandmother, who Dr. topwater, who was born in 1890, would have spoken today Omar Maori at home and English out in the world. And my mother, Dorothy earch, klore, who was born in 1930, only spoke English. So that's how quickly how fast those things move just in you know, indigenous people living you know, in a colonized nation. But you think about you come from another country, you land here and I can identify with that I'm like, I kind of woke up one day Julia and went, I don't know who I am. I was sitting making a record with an indigenous woman, Alice sky, who owned it. And it occurred to me, I was like, come through a whole lot of Indigenous women. And I've never, I've never felt I just didn't feel like I, I thought I had to earn it or something like I didn't have any right to claim my bloodline. And I had sort of a lot of shame around not knowing the language or not knowing the culture. But to end my little rant. This is the I think the greatest and deepest healing is not to go and learn all about Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. That's great. Absolutely respect their culture, take an interest. Go and find out who you are. That's where that's where the connection begins. Because until we know who we are, never know anyone else in the way that they need to be known andJulia Zemiro  24:05  seen. But you're someone who's always been very inquisitive. That's why I like talking to you. You're someone who really is curious. And another thing you are curious about as you are with this now is one point you asked yourself as an independent musician, how in the world are other people doing this? How are they getting by? And this ties into this idea to have you know, his artistry is music is theater important in a society because you know what, it's not an easy life to start off with. Even if you've been to a drama school, there's no guarantee you'll get work when you get out. And we've musicians sort of finding their way you observed your own practice and you're thinking, this is hard. Is it hard for anybody else? And you started a management course if you like, and I love that it's called I'm manage my music. There's no, there's no, you won't get it. There's no confusion around it. It's I manage my music In a nutshell, uh, you know, how did that come about, and I and just briefly tell us, you know, I love how you approach it to how the first day is a little bit tough.Jen Cloher  25:10  I started those workshops because I was struggling, I was in debt, I had just released my second album, it hadn't had the same fanfare as my first album in that hadn't had a whole lot of airplay on Triple J. And I had just assumed a bunch of things that like, oh, sweet, you know, I'll just go here, and there'll be people better and, you know, not the case, you know, like that national broadcaster, had a huge effect as far as bringing people into rooms on my first album. And then when they didn't get behind the second album in the same way, what I quickly discovered was, you know, rooms were half full. I don't wasn't because my band was any worse, or that the music wasn't any good. I think it was really just a wake up call. That, you know, unless you have certain people or things, you know, in your court, it's really hard work. And so, you know, I often share that, like, oh, that year, I'd made $100,000 in my music. And I'd spent 110. And you know, that wasn't living extravagantly. Like when you think about touring around Australia was five people in a band, you're paying them, you're paying all of the engineers, you're paying flights, accommodation, higher cars, wages, you paying for publicity radio, in every state, you know, like that money, and we weren't staying in like five star hotels, I like bunk rooms in a backpack, becauseJulia Zemiro  26:44  I can testify, I can testify, this lady's not a liar.Jen Cloher  26:49  This is the truth ran. And so I realized that unless I started to look at it as a business and find out what other people were doing, I was going to not be able to do it anymore. And so really, I managed my music was inviting other artists to come in and share about their experience, how have you done it. And this is a really sort of interesting, but also very sad thing is that many of them were in debt. And if they weren't, if they weren't in debt, their managers were, which is the same thing. Because at the end of the day, as you know, we live in this massive continent. You know, that's quite expensive, long distances to travel with a relatively small population, when you think about the landmass. So we're not even as big as the greater population of Tokyo. That's the whole of Australia. I think, like, many, many years of experience helped me to distill what I think are really important, very basic, but important things. The first thing that I always say is like, get a separate bank account. Oh, now I know that sounds insane to some people. But I just had one bank account, and everything came in and everything went out of it. I wasn't, there was no business separation. So how can you have a business if you don't actually know what it's earning? What it's what it's, you know, what the expenditures are? If you're not, there's no contingency plan or savings on knowing those outgoings that are going to happen every month, or whatever it is. So that's the first thing that I did was I opened a separate bank account, which was Jen Clow music, and this was like, I don't know, 12 years ago. And then the next thing was, don't go into debt. What crazy, crazy said than done. Yeah. So cut my credit card, except for those ones that you can have that are like debit credit card, so you can't spend the bank's money. Cut it up. Oh, yeah. And because I now have this bank account, that was Janklow music, if I wanted to go and make a record and only had $3,000. And I wanted to spend six, I had to go out and find that money. And I couldn't borrow it from my partner or my friends or my family. And the beautiful thing is that it frayed those relationships up Oh, yeah, because I wasn't scheming and manipulating and trying to work out how I could milk my parents for like 2000 like tragic. That's the kind of stuff we come to when we're desperate. So it freed those relationships up. And the other thing that I think is really, really, really important that I think a lot of people don't realize is that the most important people in your career as an artist are other artists, and not managers. They're not booking agents, that actually other artists and the reason why is that that is the community that you will look to during the really tough times like COVID You know, like, those are the people that you can call up and commiserate with you can collaborate with that. lend you things because they know that it's tough that will help you out that will go on the road with you. They're actually the most important people in your life. And I think if you can get community and be involved with the community, and not debt, foundational things that I think then help you to go out and actually have a crack at it, and just be where you are, it's alsoJulia Zemiro  30:23  being you know, I think sometimes artists want to be artists and not worry about the nuts and bolts of the things that put you together. But I just think you can get a bit interested in kind of excited about those bits to like I, I had a $7,000 debt because of acting school. And the third and one of the first things I got out of the blue in my first year out was a commercial for sure natural, ultra thin Maxi shields, pads. And it was a very fun ad actually was directed by a woman on film, it was quite an exciting couple of days, I won't lie. And it was a good little script. And it had a bit of a laugh at itself. But I made $10,000. And I was spending and in our own mind, I hadn't spent Jen, I was going away. And I had this accountant who said you really should pay off that hexed it. And like, really? Now my parents were telling me this, this was the guy who was doing our tax. And he said I couldn't My best advice to you would be if you could not miss it. And you'll still have $3,000 to do something with. And it was the best advice ever. Because right from the beginning as a struggling actor straight out of school. That debt was wiped.Jen Cloher  31:43  Yeah, look, I think. Yeah, I mean, in the 10 years that I've been running, I manage my music and I actually wrapped the last one we did was in November last year, and it was for no shortage of people coming through the doors still. You know, like it was packed. And and great speakers,Julia Zemiro  32:01  did you get different people to come in and talk to them? And yeah,Jen Cloher  32:05  I mean, I, the series that I did during COVID was just online master classes, looking at one aspect of releasing music. And yeah, people people came in thick and fast. They were up for it.Julia Zemiro  32:19  Does it that shows in energy, though, doesn't it that shows like people are hopeful and that people is that makes me feel good that there are people who aren't going, I'm not gonna let this beat me. I'm going to keep going and get out there and get some information because you know, what's next? Who knows? I mean, look, you know, it was particularly it affected your, your your work and my work because I still tour with Rockwell's. And we had two national tours that were canceled two years running. Because that is just run by Renegade and the people who originally made the show, there's no other money that helps out and there's just no way they could have covered anything like a border closure and having to accommodate a whole bunch of people. I do feel slightly let down that there weren't more voices clamoring and saying, let's change this because I still think people think that making art, again, don't run away, come back, come back. I don't just mean things on the wall. I mean, anything that you enjoy, you know that it comes easily that it's quick, but it's painless. All of that there's still a kind of a disconnect about that. And look, I'll bore anybody that asks how we make the different shows I do just to clarify the just the the misinformation they have about it. Yeah, look, IJen Cloher  33:37  think it's, you know, look, I if you said to me, what does the chemical engineer do? Honestly, I wouldn't have the foggiest. So it's no surprise that people don't really understand the nuts and bolts of our industry and really part of it. I guess part of the craft is to make it look easy, isn't it? So? If it looks and feels easy, you're doing something right.Julia Zemiro  34:09  What's next for you then Jen like you are, you know, you co founder milk records as a way to will take back control really, and have your own label and it's been such a success. It's so extraordinary. I managed my music. Four albums, a fifth with the beautiful the stringer and Mayor Dyson, amen. I mean, you're just incredible Trejo what's next what's making you excited about the future because I must say I'm a fairly half glass full person. And I was okay for most of COVID in many ways. I'm very lucky I had a home and a partner and and I didn't, everyone was all right around me. But just in the last couple of months, I had a bit of a deep dive, just thinking I don't know if anyone's really listening to anything I think people have tuned out as to what's important and what's going on. And just recently got optimistic again, possibly because I've been back at work and I'm hanging with people who want to make things and are experts at what they do and experts, camera people and sound women and, and directors, and we're back in our good zone making good stuff for people. So what's getting you hopefully a bit excited about what's next? whatever's next?Jen Cloher  35:29  Yeah, well, I mean, you know, similarly, I felt very, I think a lot of us really felt our good fortune and our privilege through COVID. In that, like yourself, you know, I had a really, I had secure housing, I had financial assistance, because I'd set up my business in a way that made job keeper accessible. And I was in a writing phase. So when I write I generally stay home and, and work. So I was writing and demoing and then through between lockdowns would go and record. So I've recorded my fifth album, and we're currently mixing it. And I'm so excited, like, I feel really creatively, probably the most sort of open and free and excited about making music and performing. I feel like I've really fallen in love with it in a new way. I like it, I think it's because of that thing that I was saying, like taking the time to understand more about who I am. And where I come from, means that the way that I locate and situate myself in my music is much more meaningful. There's a connection there that I've never felt before. And it feels very powerful and embodied. And he like I think there's a real healing in the music as well because of my own journey of reconnection and what what I have to offer through through that. So I've got all of these projects around the album at the moment, some of its making work back home in Aotearoa, hopefully in June, if Omicron doesn't hobble us, connecting with other Maori who are making work, and just generally artists in general film projects, maybe a cheeky little podcast.Julia Zemiro  37:32  Ah, I mean, I'll be listening. I'll be listening. Oh,Jen Cloher  37:37  I love a yawn. I love the rose. So here we are. But I feel really reinvigorated and excited about creating work. And I just feel so fortunate, you know, that I that I never stopped even when it's been tough. It's never been easy. You know, like, I've always had to be there pushing it along. And no one's ever kind of stepped in and gone. Oh, here go, Jen. You know, like, we're gonna do it all for you to take a chill pill. Does anyone even say chill pill anymore?Julia Zemiro  38:11  Do just, I guess to go. Also, I guess for artists too, out there. You know, it's sort of remembering that I do remember. One great thing about VCA about acting school was at the end of the three years, they said don't wait for people to call you for work. And it was very much a school about making your own work. They had had an actual course about it. So but even as US actors, only actors in inverted commas. The idea was, you know, no one's gonna offer you work. So you'll have to go and make it yourself. And what I love is and can we finish on this final story, which is, you'd been sitting there watching some lovely musicians do a version of The Beatles, a Beatle show? And you thought I Yeah, and you thought there must be there must be another an album or some extraordinary female performer that we could do. Tell us about? Coming up with the idea and executing it.Jen Cloher  39:09  Yes. Well, look, that was a beautiful moment in my life. Yes, having just watched another one of those kind of Beatles cover shows doing the White album that was to do the White Album. I was like, This is so boring. And it's packed full of people paying good coin to watch this really boring. Presentation. Just got to be honest, it was middle of the road. And and I was like, Yeah, God damn, I want to you know, like, what's a classic album by a woman like we need to like bring something to the stage that just isn't the same old Rolling Stones, Beatles, whatever it is loving but whatever. And actually do I love them? I actually don't love them that much.Julia Zemiro  39:56  But you know, it's like it's like going to the theatre companies again and going Are we really going to do Shakespeare again like fine, but I mean, could we just do something not Shakespeare? It's this it's the classics as it were. And they classic because they're classic. I go, well, sometimes it's interesting to appreciate classics in opposition to something else, or alongside something else, or, you know, or maybe something else.Jen Cloher  40:21  I just just as a side note, like a lot of people like, oh, have you seen that Beatles documentary that goes for eight hours on Disney, like, you got to watch it. It's amazing. Lauren. I was like, okay, so I went in, I was like, oh, it's amazing of must watch it. And I had many recommendations. I think I got through an hour of it. And it's not because I have some like, you know, problem with the Beatles. I'm not like some jaded old person that hates the Beatles. Like I'm up for a good show. But I was like, literally just walk in. Like these four young dudes who were like the richest people in the world at that point in time, who'd no longer toured because they didn't need to smoking cigars, and having cocktails delivered to them while they just wrote songs. I'm like, I write songs all the time. I don't need to see other people do it and be waited on hand and foot while they do.Julia Zemiro  41:14  And yet there's a fascination for it. So I go, Well, you're all fascinated by the creative process. You're all fascinated about how it happens. But those eyes were loaded and didn't have to be worried. Could you maybe be fascinated about others who are justice, who are struggling and are just as want to get that talent going? And unless they write it and can perform it, and you can see it, and you can have the relationship? You know, there's there's an audience for everyone, and we just need to find them. Anyway.Jen Cloher  41:44  Back to it, Julia. I know the mission you're on and I'm fully I hear you're okay for it. Thank you. So anyway, beetles aside, I came home that night, and I was like, I know. Patti Smith's horses. And then I looked on Google, I Googled it, and I was like, No way next year, it turns 40 years. 20 year commemoration of Patti Smith's the horses. I then assembled adelaider myself, Courtney Barnett, Gareth Lee, the art of the drones and tropical storm and, and a great band. And we we put on a couple of shows at the Melbourne Town Hall, which has that massive organ. And I think we did a matinee and evening show for Melbourne Festival, and they both sold out. So it's like 4000 people came through that afternoon to watch Patti Smith's horses. But the cutest thing was I got to meet Patti, when she was out playing her shows here for horses. And it was maybe like a year later in 2017, I think because we did 2016. And her her tour manager kind of got myself Courtney walked down, like all through the little holes behind the Art Center. And kind of on the wires like oh my god, I'm about to make Holly Smith. Like, that's really something you know, like, I feel a bit nervous. I thought we're just going to be like in your backstage Green Room. Everyone having a few drinks. Hey, Patti, here's Jen and Courtney Oh, Hi, how you going love your work. And then you go on. You know, but we come to this stage door opens the door to this wardrobe room or whatever. What do you call it changer. And Patty's just, they're just sitting there cause she's just formed horses on her own. Like we did it with like six performance. And we just had an audience with Patti Smith for like, 40 minutes or something just myself, Courtney and Patti. And you know, like, what do you say? I was just like, Oh, thanks so much for riding horses. But then she was like, oh, yeah, that was great. You know, some friends sent me some videos of y'all doing it andUnknown Speaker  44:11  yeah, good stuff.Julia Zemiro  44:12  She saw some of it. She saw some of it on she loved it. Oh, my God gaveJen Cloher  44:17  it the thumbs up Patti gave production of forces the thumbs up. So that was a super cute moment.Julia Zemiro  44:25  It's like, it's a bit like the Kevin Jackson moment to where you like, you have this experience and they come back to go I witnessed it and saw it. You know, it's a real, I wish I wish audiences to realize how much belief it takes to be a performer a belief that you keep moving forward and you keep finding new things. And every now and then something just works. And you savor it, you really savor it, and you remember it becomes this terrific memory that you'll think about when you're 18 you can't move anymore, and it'll be this time and COVID reminded me of that. I just thought COVID felt like this is Retirement is I've got to make more memories. I've got to make more memories for others. I want to make sure you remain like that, at least why it's something to think about while we were stuck and gone. Well, if I never tour again, I remember that great time when we did this. And that, I guess to what I love about that horses story. I know, I've heard you speak about because you had an acting background. And you sing as well, there was a moment where the two of them came together. And when you performed in that show, and you really felt like the two streams connected, and that's such a magic thing to happen. For a performer when you go, Oh, I do have this extra stuff in my kit. That is like performing a monologue. Um, and I mean, that's so petty. I mean, that's that she absolutely is what she does, and so theatricalJen Cloher  45:47  and so theatrical. But here's the thing as well, I mean, I think it was said, you know, many times over, you know, COVID of the past few years, we're still in it, is what did we turn to? Oh, you know, aside from your food, alcohol and our parents, we turned to literature, poetry, beautiful film and television, music podcasts, like we turned to culture to fill the cup, you know, when we couldn't be living, you know, that bigger sort of out out in the world life. And so even if we might like to think that we don't value culture we do. It's embedded, you know, it's embedded in our very souls, like, everyone looks to it, whether they know it or not to connect with the truth of who they are.Julia Zemiro  46:45  Jen, onwards and upwards. So good to talk to you. And, and I can't wait to hear the next album.Astrid Jorgensen  46:55  coming. It's coming.Julia Zemiro  46:59  So great to hear from Jen. Sometimes it is good to meet your heroes.Dan Ilic  47:03  What up Jay Z asked who cares? She boy Jay Z make some noise. No bad Jay Z. Jewelers, Amira. This is Julius AmiraJulia Zemiro  47:12  asks, Who cares? Our second guest is Astrid Johansson. She is an Australian vocalist, conductor and composer. And she's the founder and director of pub choir. She radiates intelligence and creativity and simply wants every one of us to get creative to Hello Astrid.Astrid Jorgensen  47:32  Julia, I'm obsessed with you. I real Daisy.Julia Zemiro  47:36  Yeah, I mean, the original Josie. Obviously, Astrid, so delighted to be talking to you. You blew my tiny mind when I saw you do pop choir. And when I was the artistic director of the Adelaide cabaret festival, you were the first thing on this, but we wanted to get because what you do for those people who don't know about public choir? Tell us what is it?Astrid Jorgensen  47:58  Pump choir is essentially what it says on the box. It's people singing together at the pub, nice and rowdy and fun. But on another level, Trent Dalton, the wonderful Brisbane author said to me, once of his experience of coming to pub choir and experience it himself said that it is the sound of people agreed. I think it's such a beautiful way to describe any choir, it is just regular people who might not know each other at all, who might disagree with each other on so many facets of life, all coming together and sharing one singular goal for an evening. And that's what pod choir is we learn one song at the show. You don't have to prepare anything. You don't have to be good at singing, you can be truly awful. But you get to come along and we will carry each other in the crowd. And at the end of the show. We perform what we have learned from each other. It sounds very cerebral, but it's mostly me insulting a crowd of people yelling at them. But it's fun. It's awesome. It's wonderful.Julia Zemiro  48:56  That's a beautiful description. What I love, of course, is that Astrid, you had your first singing lesson and you were so excited by the tools that you were given in that first lesson to go. Oh, right. You got excited. You wanted to share that with other people. You went teaching. And it didn't quite go. As he thought. Look,Astrid Jorgensen  49:16  I retired quite quickly from a short not illustrious career of one year. I tried high school teaching because I found music lessons like magic. I had always been good at music. Like as as long as I can remember I've been able to hear songs with a lot of detail in my head. And I thought that was something everyone could do. But it turns out not so I thought I'll go get some lessons when I was 16. I had some singing lessons and I thought it was like a learning a spell. Like you can use your body or you have to buy anything. You just use your body. Your voice has lived there all along and if you use it in the right way you can make people feel complex emotions, like you genuinely feel like you're casting a spell over people just by kind of speaking at them. And so I thought it was like the most illuminating experience of my life that you can control this instrument. It's not just like this wild beast, and either it's good or it's not, you can actually learn to harness your voice. And I thought, Well, surely everybody will be as excited as me when I explain this to them. But it turns out that high school children were not. I tried again on my own, but I think I'm far too chaotic for the classroom. So I kind of retreated. And I really started to focus on singing in the community, community choir stuff really got me going.Julia Zemiro  50:41  And I mean, at one point, you were organizing seven different choirs driving hundreds of kilometers to facilitate that. But something kind of kicked in again, with that a little bit. It was like, hang on. It's a lot of kids still on teaching a lot of kids who still sometimes don't want to be there, even though they're good at it. And sometimes a lot of white people, which was great, and you want, you come from a complete different background, and you're thinking,Astrid Jorgensen  51:07  Well, I mean, I guess the realization I had was yes, it's incredible to share this magic with people about singing. But yeah, the populations that I were working with didn't reflect me. It's not that there's anything wrong with any of those things you've mentioned. But I mean, I come from a diverse background. I was 20 years old, this young, energetic female, and I was walking into what felt like retirement situations where I it was confusing to me, because I think that choir is the most wonderful, accessible equalizing experience that is so easy. Like, I think it's really become this very cerebral highbrow thing, and we sing these like, you know, difficult works from the past that actually choirs just, as Trent said, people agreeing and I really wanted to find a way to convince people like me that it was worth doing. And so that's how pub choir was born. Because I was like, what attracts young people that want to just have a good time. Obviously, alcohol. I'm not spoiling anything, but just turns out if you take the choir rehearsal that's been happening the whole time. But you just put it in a nice, fun, licensed venue. So people will come.Julia Zemiro  52:24  The original social media posts you put out read, calling all shower singers pub choir is acquire for you. Bring your mates bring your nan, just don't bring your kids because it's a pub, no sheet music, no auditions, no solos, no commitment, no worries, we'll teach you one song in three part harmony in 90 minutes, and then we'll never do it again. Come and let out some yields $5 entry. Now look, that is one of the best bloody ins I've ever read, like you just want to go. And the most beautiful part is we'll never do it again, is this moment in time. It's not about keeping it. And even though you do film it so people can have it as something to watch later. Of course, they put their phones away, and they completely get into what you're doing. Now, when I first saw it and was part of it. I thought it was just going to be everyone just singing everything. But now you actually do teach a three part harmony. And it's like, you kind of teach up rather than teach down. You sort of go i I'm going to challenge you a little bit. And you can see people Well, you told me you can see people sometimes they get do they get frustrated does the penny drop?Astrid Jorgensen  53:34  I think it's more of a doubt. It's like the road to Damascus comes along and they do not believe and I yell at them until they do you know, I think I'm like, I mean, a big part of it is that it's honest. So I think a lot of people who come along know that they sing out of tune. There's no point in me, but cajoling them and lying to them. We don't need leaders to lie to us.Julia Zemiro  54:01  They do That's right.Astrid Jorgensen  54:03  Yeah, we fall couldn't receive another lie. Thank you. And so we we crave honesty and the people that come along, they know themselves. I don't hear anyone's individual voice. But everyone who comes along has an understanding of what their voice is like. And for a lot of people they don't want you to tell them. And so beautiful. You've nailed it because they probably haven't they probably miss every night along the way. came in like too high, too sharp, and missed everything. But what I do at pub wire is I try and just be honest with them but optimistic. I think I think those are my two main kind of goals for the evening. I will be honest with the people there. I'll say well, you've absolutely missed every note. But thank you for being honest about it. Because now I can help you. I mean I say all the time of the show if you just step back and wait for the time where you have come to a perfect understanding of what you need to Do you will have missed the whole show, it would be much more efficient use of your time if you just sang what you think you should be thinking. And if it goes wrong, I'll help you. I'll let you know. And then we go from there. And we all go on this journey together. And we arrive at a destination together, as long as it starts from a place of honesty and optimism, because I believe in them.Julia Zemiro  55:21  It's, it's a metaphor for living your bloody life as well, because it's diving in. And it's it's also permission to fail and permission to make a weird sound and permission to try again, because you rehearse it a few times, you get another go at it, like it's not the end on a meal. Now, performers might know that already, we know that's part of how we learn and all that. But all these people are not performers in general. And the look on people's faces, when they leave the sound that you actually get them to make. I mean, I just tear up every time it's just, I just can't go there, go there, I've got to do anything important afterwards, because I just get so it's so beautifully emotional. And as you say, normally often choirs are about the right sound. And there is no right sound. It's about making the sound together. And as Trent says, agreeing, when I was at acting school, at VCA, we didn't do a lot of singing, it was part of the curriculum, but there wasn't a lot of it. And at one point, she did divide the class into two and you were going which half of mine and I realized that was in the better half, which was no fun for the half of the other half, you know, so they felt like they were kind of not great at it. And we got stuff that was more challenging, but they weren't good singers in this particular year. So why not challenged them. But what she really meant to say to before she divided was that she didn't believe that every single could act, but she felt that every actor could sing and could communicate a song by acting by feeling by telling the story of it. And let's face it, you know, if we all judged every musician by the voice and Australian Idol standards, there would be no Tom Waits, there'd be no Dylan, there'd be no scratchy voices and interesting voices. And yeah,Astrid Jorgensen  57:12  I mean, I think that the music is confusing in that way. And very challenging in that way. Because input does not necessarily equal output. You know, you could you could do everything technically correct. But that doesn't mean that your voice moves people. And you could miss most of the notes and have a really gravelly voice. And yet something is awakened in the people that listen to you. So it is an absolutely sick of artistic pursuit, being presented as a like, there is an end point, there is no finishing point to arts, you cannot complete music, go and study and then be like, Well, I've done it all. There's no there's no line, it just goes on and on. And if all of it is subjective, and I'm sick of this judgment, this laden with judgment idea about the arts, you know, your voice might be out of tune all of the time. But that's, that's a subjective criteria, you know, and I just think the one fact about voices is that every single one is unique to the user. Like, you know, you can buy pianos from the factory, but you can't buy a voice. Every single one is unique to the user. And that's worth celebrating. Even if it sucks. All the notes are onJulia Zemiro  58:24  the new platform papers is a great volume of stories about arts and what's going on in this particular one is what future for the arts in the post pandemic world indeed. And in it you right, we all deserve to feel joy, even if we are not the best is that the man show when you when you look out onto that crowd when you're filling up a huge room of you know, up to I mean, I've got it here. 3000 people you did Truly, Madly, Deeply that great Savage Garden song 3000 people, there must have been awesome.Astrid Jorgensen  58:53  You will think about the odds for like, 3000 regular people, there's no auditions as if all of them are going to be good. I mean, is if any of us are the best at anything. Yeah, I mean, really, let's be honest about it. There's billions of people in the world, the odds are not good for you, you know, to be the best at anything. We all exist in this vast apparatus, you know, like, the sooner you can accept that. The reality of that, letting go of the idea that we are striving to climb this piece of shit. Yeah, like if there's, there's just the odds are so poor, they're against us. And so I feel like the moment that you can accept that we exist in this vast average is so freeing. You are free now to enjoy an experience. Of course, you're not the best. When you sing, you are not the most beautiful sound in the world. And that's okay. Like, you know, I get a lot of people who come along before the show before they've had their conversion. And they say things like, you know, or absolutely tone deaf. I could never sing a note right. And I know there's no hope for me and I sort of think to myself What are you making that basing that comparison on? Are you listening to literal famous singers and then deciding that there is a chasm between you and them? Of course, like, you know, Beyonce wouldn't exist unless she was remarkable. And to compare our voice with what we hear what this curated sound that we hear everywhere on the radio, and like, you know, after the producer is ironed everything out and after everything is so schmick and clean, and then to listen to that and think, Oh, my voice isn't that good? I mean, of course, it's not come on, get off your horse, you're crazy. You know, like, you know, just accept that your voice is unique. And that is enough,Julia Zemiro  1:00:38  you make the comparison with sport where you say, you know, we know that we can't be we're not going to be at the Olympics. So that doesn't stop us playing soccer on the weekend with friends. It doesn't stop us playing tennis with friends, it doesn't stop us doing a bit of a dance class or not being great at it, but you just love doing it with singing somehow. Is it because it's emotional? Is it because it taps it because someone in someone in the family has obviously said to them, you can't sing? I hear that all the time. Because with rock waves, we just do some scene sometimes. And we challenge them. And they like, I know, I'm the one in my family who can't sing. But is it because singing is emotional to its other activities don't bring out emotion like that maybeAstrid Jorgensen  1:01:17  there's probably lots of factors for each individual. But I reckon, overall, I think singing feels like a personal failure, because it came from your body. You know, with them, I also learned violin and piano was a young kid, and you press keys, and you look at the string and you you know, you can see physically what you're working with. With singing. It's all internal. It's very personal. And so when things go wrong, you did it made the noise and it feels like it's such a personal failure. But I mean, I would counter that by saying that much like sports singing is a physical activity. I mean, I wish it was more physical. But I mean, I'm, it's a physical activity as if there's anything about your voice that you're embarrassed about, or that you don't like there is a physical solution, because all noise is created with your own body. So you know, if your voice you feel is too annoying, you know, you can learn to change tone of voice. And I'm not suggesting that you do that. But this idea that it's like this fixed property of our bodies is not true. And you know, I think sport does a lot better of a job of convincing society that it's okay to be average, you know, like, anyone at any physical level can find like a little kicks AFL team or a night indoor netball team, and you can be the worst and super uncoordinated and someone will have you but what do you do if you're really bad at violin? You know? I think yeah, the arts has this, this problem with kind of prestige and competition, whereas I think, you know, pop choir, at least I mean, I'm not trying to make it a big self promotion thing. But I think we have given people a space to be truly awful. And to have the loveliest time because it is okay, if there are enough of us helping each other, we can celebrate the vast average. And and I think that's what people want. In a post COVID world. Like I think all of us have spent a lot of time at home, reflecting on what is actually important. And I think comfort and happiness have really risen to the top. You know, I've noticed some of my corporate friends, they're like, they're not interested in wearing heels in a power suit to work. The way that we look has nothing to do with our performance. You know, like people are looking to work at home and they're brushing their hair less, even though this is their meeting, and they got a kid on the hip, and we are looking for comfort and we are looking for experience and I think anything we can do to offer people that especially in the arts, you know, bring it on.Julia Zemiro  1:03:49  It's our job. Now you are an artist you had a you're making a quite a good living I am assuming with pop choir, you were doing incredible shows so many extraordinary people involved along the way. You know, Mariah Carey got involved at one point and said how fabulous that was, it was going all around the world. And then COVID hits. Now any of us that work with a live audience, all of a sudden that work literally disappeared? How did it play out for you?Astrid Jorgensen  1:04:17  Well, it was it was a couple of touch and go brown moments there. But do you know what is incredible and I do not take this for granted. I understand that this is not everyone's story. And in fact, I think it's the exception is that we thrived throughout COVID which is unbelievable, considering that choir was often illegal during the last few years. Like my business has been illegal,Julia Zemiro  1:04:46  I'm safe, unsafe, someoneAstrid Jorgensen  1:04:49  safe unsafe, you know you can share it the funny but once it's a song, you know those particles. So anyway, what actually happened was I reflected deep more deeply upon what happened Quite was about anyway. So yes, it was going very well. And I do grieve some of those opportunities that I think we might have lost forever, perhaps. But I had plenty of time for introspection and to consider what it is that I'm trying to do anyway, was it to fill a pub with 1000s of people? No, that's not what started pub quiet to begin with. The idea was offering people the opportunity to make art averagely and to feel safe and to enjoy the experience. And I don't, I came to the realization that we didn't even need to be near each other, we could still have that experience. And that's how couch choir was created. It's the same idea. You know, everyone is invited, no matter what your voice is, like you are invited to come and be part of this experience. But rather than it being live, people would send their performances as a video to me and my team and we would edit them together. And I think that is extraordinarily brave of all the people who are a part of it because a pub quiet just get lost in the crowd. Just go Stan, you're very loud person and blended. They'll cover any noisy mic. But at couch choir, you said your individual performance to us. And what happened was a business group, because like I was saying before, I think of all of the terrible things that have happened in the past two years. one silver lining is that I think COVID has helped us all to reframe what we consider important and I think people were sitting at home and they wanted connection, they wanted to feel like part of something bigger than themselves. Community is important to us, we have all agreed community is important. And I think people also felt this desperate need to feel okay with what they have. And we'd already been offering that was pub quiet. But we've kept quiet was an even more overt decision for people to make, I will sing by myself. And I may miss every single note. And then I will accept that and I will send it to someone else. And I trust that they will do something good with it. And so our, our audience literally doubled over over the last little while. And so I'm very grateful for this. I don't know, I guess it's kind of reiterated for me why we started in the first place, which was Yeah, to give people a safe place to create and singing is still real, no matter what infectious thing might be going on in the world. Singing always is with you inside your body. And you can cast the magic spell anytime you want. Oh,Julia Zemiro  1:07:33  I love it. I love listening to you Astrid, it just, I mean, honestly, I would just really encourage anybody, if you've never had singing lessons, just pick a teacher for six lessons just for six and just see what you feel and what comes out of it. And there is some amazing teachers out there. They really, really, really are. It's so it's so worth doing. So I have to say, though, when COVID here, then we had a lot of time to think about all of these things and job caper came out. And all of a sudden, it seemed that the artistic community wasn't going to be able to get any of that. And again, maybe with the flick of a pen we could have have that changed. I was surprised how I expected more members of the public or punters to kind of go Yeah, that's terrible. They did a bit online etc. But there's no real change to that upheaval. Or maybe there was maybe more people spoke up than I knew, but nothing was really done about it. And again, it was very difficult for the artistic community not to feel completely ignored, and unheard and unnecessary. Until you need cheering up until you need to commute to communicate with someone in short, you need some amazing music at your you want to get a band in and do something. And I'd be interested to know what your view is of that in terms of what are we I think sometimes maybe we are not as good at explaining and sharing with audiences. What it is that we do, the work that it takes, and to maybe stop that idea of going well, you lucky that's why you do it. I find that you kind of cross this nice some divide between you are a professional musician and singer. But you engage people who are not and you make a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing.Astrid Jorgensen  1:09:21  I mean, my approach is the more that you can invite people into the experience, the more appreciation that they have for what involves so I mean say with sport. I had tennis lessons very briefly as a kid and I was actually beaten in my only match I haven't played with by girl with one arm and us you know, thrashed six low and I thought to myself tennis song hard. But then when I go and watch tennis on the telly, I have this this understanding of of how difficult it would be to be ash body, but how much skill is involved. And until we in the arts community offer people the experience of music making in my instance, they may not be able to come to a place of appreciation of how much it involves to become a master of your craft, to go and see an incredible musician and to understand that this is not just the way that they work up, but it actually takes considerable effort and practice to get to that place. And I think, yeah, we do quite a notoriously bad job of this grass roots, creation. And it's interesting, like when we bring into the COVID conversation of you know, we felt like we were adrift in the arts community. And like, we weren't sure if we were truly appreciated. I think that there was a lot of passiveness around the consuming of art, and the Internet has everything to do with that. And, you know, I think that live music is a much richer experience than listening on your phone. But you can access music anytime you want, you know, like AI is at our fingertips, pretty much for free at all times. And so it has to be about experience, if we want to convince people of the value of what art brings into our life, it has to be experiential, because we can passively consume art all day, every day as much as we want. And so I think out of something like COVID, if we want to get people back in theaters, and experiencing the transformation that you have, as an audience member, when you are taken on this journey, when you watch a play or whatever, I think we need to start encouraging the wider community to experience art in their everyday life. Now that might be I don't know, if you're in a corporate industry, maybe you could have, instead of awkward PD, where everyone sits there checking their phone, secretly we talk about I don't know, like buzzwords and certainly bad stuff. Maybe you could have a group art class. And that might sound really silly and wishy washy. But the research is abundant and readily available, go look up, how singing can affect you physically and emotionally. Like there's so much research out there, I think that we need to start bringing the arts into the experience of life, so that people can dip their fingers in creation we need to create with some urgency in this world, because then we will understand what it takes to really, truly transform people with art. It's It's hard work. And we've got to bring people on that journey.Julia Zemiro  1:12:41  I sometimes joke that one day when I've got no work, and I'm 65 I'll open like a drama class school. But ya know, but it'll be called, please come here if you don't want to be famous. And it would be just for the experience of the adults and children to come and go try and doing a monologue from a play, try singing something, try learning something, not to be marked on not to be rewarded by but just to try it in a safe environment. And I also think that's the way you get to learn the vocabulary of a particular genre. You said before with tennis, you had played tennis, and you saw how hard it was. So when you watch it, you have some idea. And I think if every kid you know have at school so early, we have to start choosing what we're going to do if we're going to do a language or if we're going to do music, or if we're going to do sport. And then at some point to unless you're brilliant at it, you're out. It's really hard to be average. And then you're you're told you're average, because the expectation is everyone wants to be brilliant. We don't I'd like to play really average game of netball. But we tried that once and the girls were up the women were up against you know, I did some adult netball classes. We turned up in just our gear and that team had said, yeah, now you'd have to wear anything special. And we were up against this team with bibs. And the whole thing's organized and got uniforms. I was like, What is this and they were not friendly. They did not want to have fun. And so that fun element of being at school and I think kids should sing every single day at school for fun, you do a song that is popular. You do a song that you'd enjoy, not four marks just to open your guts up and yell and sing and make noise. Because that vibration inside you. It's just good for you to do that for an hour and then get on with your day.Astrid Jorgensen  1:14:37  Absolutely. And a very small story, just the direct precursor to public wire. The direct year before I started while I was working in Townsville at a school called St Pat's on the strand, and they had a compulsory whole school choir I was brought into the school specifically to run the fortnightly compulsory Back. In high school, high school girls being forced to sit outside in Townsville, it's hot there, if you haven't been right after assemblies, they've been sitting in the heat, sweltering sweating from every pore. And then after assembly, they remain sitting there sweaty seats and then are forced to sing with me for an hour. And can I tell you it was the most transformative, incredible, illuminating experience of my life. I thank my lucky stars that I was given the opportunity to do that kind of work within the first session. I mean, the doubt, the doubt was high, the hormones were absolutely common. There was just this like sticky sweat, you're in it. And it was mostly for me. And I decided I would not try and explain anything. And exactly what I was saying before I decided I have to go experience first. So instead of saying anything, welcome to quiet. No, I just started seeing my guts out a song that I wanted them to learn, but I let them hear it, I decided that I couldn't ask them to do anything I wouldn't be willing to do. So I just put my face in the mind saying this song is like beautifully as I possibly could. And then I pointed back at them. And I said, Now you sing. And we did it line by line and everyone shut their face. And then saying when I told them to. And so the experience is always it has to come first. Let's worry about well, how to take a beautiful breath and sit this way and do that. Nope. Let's worry about that later. And let's just start with a beautiful feeling of singing together. And then from there, we could you know, bring a new pop song every week. And it was pretty much POM choir, but sober. Thank goodness it was in a school. And yeah, just like taking a song that I thought they already knew. So they felt like they had already succeeded because they knew how it all went. But I'd seen first that seemed back in a moment, this side, try little harmony, and then we gather and it was incredible. And it just showed me my whole perception of creating and the arts had been wrong. It's not about competing, there is no way to win. All we can do is work together. And the sum is always greater than the parts. If you have honest and optimistic leadership, I think that's an important element to it. You can't just flounder. Someone has to be telling someone what to do.Julia Zemiro  1:17:15  You say in this great piece again, the new platform papers get it to join a choir is to agree to play a small part in a collective whole. You give of yourself not for yourself, so that you may share in an outcome much bigger than yourself. I mean, isn't that? Isn't that how we should be voting isn't how we should be living? Isn't that how we should be being like together? Like that's, that's the fun part of it is never time. We're all here, isn't it?Astrid Jorgensen  1:17:43  I mean, I like to think so. And I mean, if I I've heard that there's a parliamentary choir. And I would be willing, if you pull my leg willing to go and take the parliamentary choir because I would love to boss around some politicians with some honest but optimistic leadership and say no, if we work together, we could actually agree and create something better than we could accrue, you know, create by ourselves. I mean, I think that's pretty megalomaniac vibes for me, but no, I think it would be it would be really nice to even have that. Literal politicians working in literal harmony together. Wouldn't that be nice?Julia Zemiro  1:18:29  That'd be That's my dream. That's literally my day.Astrid Jorgensen  1:18:33  I'm putting it out there anyone who's in the parliamentary choir, I'm available.Julia Zemiro  1:18:37  She's available and also let's share that let's have more compulsory whole school choirs. Oh my gosh,Astrid Jorgensen  1:18:44  I think that it was an experience for them as well as me and I you know, we could do with a lot more of that in schools and in society in general. Let's make stuff averagely and have a lovely time.Julia Zemiro  1:18:54  Let's make stuff avidly and have a lovely time. Astrid, you're just a ray of sunshine. And I also want to shout out to a wonderful wave in eso who works with you and plays guitar and gets us all smiling and getting into it and gives us a hand with the tune because sometimes you don't know where we're going.Astrid Jorgensen  1:19:16  She will absolutely be listening and I bet you she's wearing the custom made Julie's Amuro shirt that she had you in her hand and she got it printed so that it would last longer the feeling so thank you for being so lovely and supportive to everything we do. Thank you and itJulia Zemiro  1:19:31  was a thrill also that SBS made a show around pub quiet and specifically they made it around the fact that choirs hadn't been able to get together and we cut to different I hosted it with Miranda Tapsell for SBS and we cut to different choirs all around the country to check in with them in terms of what they've been doing. And you again taught we the way Vinnie live at the Sydney Town Hall to Song hunters and collect a song with Mark Seymour and it was is incredible and yeah I just I hope we get to do it again I hope we get to see that vibe again and and get out there have you done any live sinceAstrid Jorgensen  1:20:10  so we've done one show in 2022 and it was incredible we did this song I Love You always forever we did it in Brisbane this beautiful song by UK singer Donald Lewis Ella view always read and she got on board Wheaton about it, she's been sharing it you know, I think even that's that's very good feedback. It's very validating to see the artists themselves be excited by a song of their own being reborn sung by you know, drunk, just people. So, you know, if you can't get along to pub like join a local choir, go and make a friend. Go and agree with someone. Go and sing a song and make something with them and you will be better for and I promise.Julia Zemiro  1:20:55  Thank you so much Astrid. love you love you.Astrid Jorgensen  1:20:59  Ah, you are lots of fanning delight. Thank you for having me.Dan Ilic  1:21:02  Julia Zemiro asks, Who cares?Julia Zemiro  1:21:04  So that's the message, everyone sing. averagely go on. I dare you. Thank you to Jen and Astrid, thanks to a rational fee and the patreon supporters the Bertha Foundation and our wonderful post producer Jacob Brown who makes us sound fabulous on equipment from road. Join me next time when we find out who else cares. ByeTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREWe're joined this week by fearmongers:Steve HiliLauren EdwardsLewis Hobba and Dan IlicAnd we cover:Tim Wilson vs Signage in Goldstein Rest in peace Queen Elizabeth? The Russian Invasion of UkraineAnd in EXTRA FEAR only available on Patreon or Apple Subscription we ask Brynn O'Brien from Australasian Centre for Corporate Responsibility about the $10 billion buy out of major polluter AGL — https://www.accr.org.au/ PLUGS:See Lauren in 'Everything Is A Lie' at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival Follow Steve on Twitter for upcoming tour dates and other news🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearHeading into the election your support is going to be more crucial than ever!Thank you FEARMONGERS!If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261-----------------------Bertha Announcement  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation. Dan Ilic  0:04  G'day Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:05  Hello, Daniel. How are you?Dan Ilic  0:07  Good. You look so much better than you did last week.Lewis Hobba  0:10  Thank you. Yeah, I feel a million times better. I'm still not at 100 I'm probably at like 80% but I am yeah. Mostly recovered from COVID. Back on deck backhoe work ready to talk about World War Three.Dan Ilic  0:23  I'm glad you recovered just in time for the most dire times. Hey, we got a new joke. Keep a poster up at about in Sutherland Shire. Let me share it with you. I took a trip out to southern China to take a photo of it. It says Hawaiian hideaway for when things get too hot at home. This is bushfire sale now on so if you live near Sutherland station or you want to take a trip to southern station, go check it out.Lewis Hobba  0:48  And take yourself I don't think you can take a train trip in Sydney at the moment. So probably strike the Uber. YouDan Ilic  0:54  have to get an Uber take an Uber does other than station. Also, Louis. I've sent out the final perk for jokey but it's only taken 24 weeks. But finally, there's a guy who lives in Colorado. He runs a ski tech company. He ordered a plaque. And this is it here I'll shout it. It's a bronze plaque. And it says during a national crisis, the Prime Minister of Australia Scott Morrison stood on this spot and did nothing so that that is gonna go to Colorado for some reason. So that's fantastic. Big thank you to Steve for that.Lewis Hobba  1:27  That's beautiful.Dan Ilic  1:28  It is made it took forever to bake. But you know, it's also what was a massive success was the reordering of irrational fear. Last year, last week, we actually picked up nine new Patreon subscribers so big thank you to everyone who signed up to here extra fear, which is the phrase we're going with. It's not going with lend me your fears. Would you believe? Interesting?Lewis Hobba  1:49  Interesting. Yeah. Fair enough. I mean, extra fee is a bit simpler. A little less fun.Dan Ilic  1:54  Yeah, but you know, so our listeners are simple people. They simple. Like big ideas. Simple folk, like big ideas.Lewis Hobba  2:01  I disagree. I think they logged my my lend me your fee is based.Dan Ilic  2:06  When you go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear, you get to listen to extra fear. Also, you get discounted tickets to our live shows. And we we are working on a new live show for the Melbourne International Comedy Festival. Put it in your diary. It's not on sale yet. But April 10 5pm. At the forum. It's it's definitely day after your show, Louis? Yeah.Lewis Hobba  2:31  Oh, God. Yes. Okay. It's a Sunday. Yes. Sunday, Sunday. Yeah, great. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't announced the other show, by the way. So Cafe all right. No, no, no,Dan Ilic  2:40  no, no. Yeah. So if you want to come to irrational fear, live on stage, we are going to play the biggest room we have ever played, Louis. It's 580 seater, which is also great. If we if it's half full, it's good for social distancing. So we're about at the forum. We're gonna play the forum, the big the big room at the forum. Yeah. I love the forum. It's beautiful. It's very exciting. So please come along to that. Tickets should be on sale. Hopefully at the end of the week.Lewis Hobba  3:04  It's so have you been to the new forum. I don't think we're nice enough for that theatre. Like that's, it's a really nice theatre, we're gonna need to do like a dance number.Dan Ilic  3:13  Okay, all right, let's do a dance number. I'm trying to get some I'm trying to get at least one really, really big name to come join us. So I'm excited. So should we go out a little known up and comer called Louis hubba is gonna make sure it's good. At the very end of this podcast tonight. Also, I'll be telling you about a brand new special election project that I'm working on Philly election and how you can be a part of it. So skip to the end. If you wanna hear about that. I'm recording my end of irrational feet on Gadigal Land of the coronation sovereignty was never said we need a treaty. Let's start the show.Voice Over  3:45  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, and gum and section 40 of our rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  3:59  Tonight after contracting COVID-19 Clive Palmer is rushed to hospital with symptoms coming out of an overdose of irony. And the summer of sequels continues to roll on as World War three kicks off in Europe but critics say it's incredibly derivative. And Sydney has had the wettest summer in over 30 years. But what is the cause La Nina or elbows new pictures? It's the 25th of February and we're not on strike. This is A Rational fear.Welcome to A Rational fear. I'm your host, former chairman of Perth airport, Dan Ilic. And this is the podcast that hold your hands through the scariest stories in the news. And we've got a couple of first time fear mongers on the show tonight which is very exciting. Vice magazine says he has the energy of a dog that needs to be taken out. But you know, he's basically book this podcast on the strength of his solo show name which is the sexy environmental So please keep your IPCC in your pants and welcome Steve Haley. Welcome, Steve.Steve Hili  5:06  Hello, everybody. Yeah,Dan Ilic  5:08  thank you. How did you feel to know that device wanted to put you down?Steve Hili  5:13  I know, I know. It was that just that came from. So I've done a gig. I've done a tour in Romania. Visa these up. It was very weird. By the end of the night they Yeah, it's kind of a compliment, right. Yeah. So I'm, I'm kind of proud of it. But I've also Yeah, I mean, once theLewis Hobba  5:37  Steve a lot of people would pay money to watch a dog on stage going so crazy that it had to be put down not people that you like, necessarily, yeah, come to your show, but people would pay pay and people would also pay money during the show to say, you know, what would happen to that talk?Steve Hili  5:53  Yeah, very true. And you know, again, with with the way I look at my ethnicity, some you might get some people you might enjoy me being taken out. Depending where you are in the world. So yeah, so that happens and it was lots of fun. No, it was actually it was a it was a lovely talk. And I managed to get a good quote out of it.Dan Ilic  6:18  And she's the host of what in the world is going on podcast and she calls herself an anti inspiration influencer so please try not to be inspired by Lauren Edwards. Welcome Lauren.Lauren Edwards  6:29  Oh, thank you so much. I'm just on the dog thing I'd be a two hour by the way. Dogs that's who I am in person small and terrifying. So thank you so much.Dan Ilic  6:39  And they call his legs the twin towers for good reason. It's Louis hobo.Lewis Hobba  6:43  That's right. Because all the jokes I think I have to conspiratorial Joe can't melt them.Dan Ilic  6:54  Coming up later, in extra fear. We talk good friend of the show. Bryn O'Brien from the Australian Centre for corporate responsibility about how the mike cannon Brookes takeover bid of AGL came to be and where it'll go from here. We'll also ask her, what will it take for Mike cannon Brooks to buy irrational fear. But first, here's a message for this week's sponsor.Bland Power  7:15  We all want our kids to grow up healthy and not on fire which makes rising temperatures in and around the home a bit of a nuisance but if you want to do absolutely nothing about them by go past Liberal Party of Australia, not only has the Liberal Party of Australia received donations in excess of $5 million from fossil fuel companies since 2012. Unlike other Australian political parties, the Liberal Party of Australia comes with a unique formula that combines heavy investment in the gas industry with no meaningful plan to transition to renewables or electric vehicles making them the perfect party to guarantee Australia contributes less than our fair share to the global effort to tackle climate change. So if you want to stick your head in the sand and feel it get hotter and hotter, why not give the Liberal Party of Australia ago today bland power helping you vote better?Dan Ilic  7:58  I do not recommend this week's first hear Tim Wilson loves free speech just not from his electric I don't even know this guy is an IPA member freedom loving libertarian is an MP. He basically hit his social media hard this week to alert everyone in his electorate that if you support Zoe Daniel by putting up a sign in your yard, you could be a law breaker. His tweet said that law breakers shouldn't be law makers fake independents have profited by selling signs to households that they know they're going to get a fine. So much for integrity. First of all, this doesn't sound like law breaking just sounds like democracy. Second of all, the council came out to say, yeah, it's okay.Lewis Hobba  8:41  What was his problem with it? What did what did he say was illegal about the sign?Dan Ilic  8:45  He said he said that basically it contravenes Council laws that if you put up a sign on your own property, it counts as advertising and you need a permit. And if you don't have a permit, for a sign promoting, you know, other candidates, then you could get a fine from the council. So it's not so much a law, more like you're just kind of breaking Council regulations.Unknown Speaker  9:05  I mean, does he know that Josh Frydenberg has got signs all up around Kooyong where I live? Like, is he upset about that? Because they are everywhere?Dan Ilic  9:12  What is it like living in Kooyong at the moment with all those?Lauren Edwards  9:17  Oh, it's very blue. It also makes me feel very poor. Living in the crappiest apartment in Kooyong basically.Lewis Hobba  9:25  You don't have your own tennis court.Lauren Edwards  9:28  No, actually. We sold it to develop another high rise. I was very sad. But you know, we've got to make money somehow.Steve Healy  9:39  I was reading about this guy, this Tim Wilson guy because I was I was doing a little bit of research for this for this show. Right? And I was I found out he's He was apparently defended some anti vaxxers Then they because he said he said that he was that they that it's that he's in favour of freedom of speech, obviously. Yeah, as long as the anti vaxxers message isn't on a billboard.Lewis Hobba  10:04  Though they can pay for the billboard, it just can't be in their yard. Here's what I mean. I saw some interactions about it. And I saw someone reposting an old quote of his on one of his free speech thought experiments, which is where someone was like, Okay, you believe in the totality of free speech. Let's deal with a situation here. Where you know, we're at an Outback pub and a publican throws out someone for being black refuses to serve them. What What would you say to that? He said absolutely fine. Totally fine. That's that's free speech. That's freedom of action. He is free to throw throw out that person and then the community is free to boycott that establishment and that is just free market doing its job. So that's the kind that's the TimLauren Edwards  10:48  Wilson also blocked me on Twitter for being mean to him so I mean, I you know, to me like that's the free market baby people.Steve Hili  10:56  What did you do?Lauren Edwards  11:01  Oh, look, I'm not gonna be really honest here. I, I troll a lot of local politicians. So I'm pretty sure that it was something about franking credits and I was just a sassy bitch to him basically, and I've been blocked by a few Liberal Party members so I honestly don't remember what it was about, but it was something about franking credits.Dan Ilic  11:21  People on Twitter are getting really upset of me about me liking his tweets and I'm only liking them for they stay in my feed,Lauren Edwards  11:26  so you can save them.Dan Ilic  11:29  So when he does say something dumb, I can jump on it pretty quickly. Just so upset that you know, I'm going about liking stuff that don't like his tweets. I keep seeing them and like well, you know, you don't use TwitterLauren Edwards  11:40  to save the brain can't keep up with all the free speech thatSteve Hili  11:44  does sound a little bit like a Prince Andrew excuse.Dan Ilic  11:53  Yeah, I like those. Yeah. This is great. I really enjoyed it so much soon as Bayside clarified the rules for putting up signs Samantha maiden from the Herald Sun. The Chief Political reporter said this absolutely dead from laughing. Sam is one of the best journalists in Australia and it's great to see her having a laugh.Lewis Hobba  12:18  It's like lawmakers should probably be across the law before they call other people on Rikers.Dan Ilic  12:23  That's right. Yeah. Does this make Tim Wilson a low faker? Now? Yeah,Lewis Hobba  12:28  I'm a lawmaker up that's my bit. Yeah, lawmakerLauren Edwards  12:30  app. I like that. It'sDan Ilic  12:32  so strange. Like it's so strange little kind of speech. He's willing to die like what kind of he'll is willing to die on like, this is a guy Tim Wilson is a gay man. And I think he said more on signage of signage in Bayside Council then the trampling of LGBT rights and the religious discrimination Bill was like he's got more tweets, more tweets and local local ordinancesLewis Hobba  12:54  across the floor. He crossed the floor to stop that signage. DanielsLauren Edwards  13:03  No, absolutely not. It's very typical conservative politicians, you know, free speech, free speech and you know, everyone can say whatever they like and you're all a bunch of snowflakes until someone says something that I don't like because that really,Lewis Hobba  13:15  he said was like vote for me. It wasn't even like Tim Wilson. I am also running in his democratic election. He's like no rational fear,Voice Over  13:25  social progress. And that's what I fight for as much as economic progress. But you like redistributing wealth upwards you know, I want actually people to have a chance of being able to carve their own ladder and stand on their own two feet. And like people the ABCyour fear is rational.Dan Ilic  13:41  This week second fear the Queen is Dead. According to a Hollywood blog three days ago, Hollywood unlocked made the call claiming that they had spoken to sources close to Buckingham Palace. And so those sources chose to speak with Hollywood and locked out of every other publication in the world. Steve is someone from the UK what counts as a source close to Buckingham Palace? Well,Steve Hili  14:05  the guy she said it was a source close to the United Kingdom France right So to be fair, to be fair, the queen as look like she's been dead since 2004 hasn't really so. So it's not it's not I mean, I I'll be honest, I if if this really did happen if somebody leaked this news, the Hollywood unlocked then people in the palace of sweating apart from Prince AndrewDan Ilic  14:37  we gonna need some kind of a bell to Yeah, there we go. That'sSteve Hili  14:50  I've been looking into this I think that now this is I shit you know, this is what they say that they think that the reporter is. The name is His name's Jason Lee or something. He may have got confused. Because Mark Lonergan, who's the lead singer of the Queens of the Stone Age, he unfortunately passed away. And so this guy, for some reason thought that that meant that the Queen passed away. So it's just a case of mistaken identity. I mean,Lauren Edwards  15:25  it can happen like Prince Andrew really.Steve Hili  15:31  I mean, you know, members of the royal very look like different things, right? Prince Charles looks like a foot with a fungal infection. People look like.Dan Ilic  15:42  There was a time when the prince of Jordan died. Mariah Carey got up at a press conference to say, Can we just take a moment? Remember Michael Jordan, he was such a great basketball player.Steve Hili  15:56  Yeah, I remember that. Dan Ilic  15:57  So, look, I think there's a lot of there's a lot of hubbub about the Queen dying this week, because people aren't quite sure the bit of conspiracy theories going around. I just went to Google and I typed is the into Google? Yes. How many out of the 10 autocompletes. on auction? How many were about the claim after typing in is theSteve Hili  16:17  All right. Lewis Hobba  16:19  ThreeSteve Hili  16:19  I was gonna say seven. YeahLouis is closest to but the top one one is the iPhone. So Jane waterproof. And then the second one is the Queenstown live, and then followed by the third one is the iPhone 11 water proof. Followed by his Ukraine pattern, NATO. And then finally, is the queen sick. So you know, there's a lot there's a lot of people's minds on the internet people are really concerned.Lauren Edwards  16:45  Well, I mean, someone needs to tell the mothers of Australia, you know, all the all the mums need to know about the queen, my mother would be very upset. She doesn't know about this,Dan Ilic  16:52  and they want to know finds a waterproof too, which is great.Lewis Hobba  16:54  Well, did you see a story? It's only tangentially Queen related but the bastion of journalistic integrity here in Australia, do the story on the Queen getting COVID I'm talking of course, about a source we turn to often A Current Affair. They did a story on the Queen getting COVID and they interviewed a medical expert from Melbourne a doctor and they were as they were, they had the obviously pre recorded interview of this doctor, and they were just chucking up footage. So he was they were saying, you know, what sort of treatment is the queen going to be getting and this doctor was saying, you know, the queen will basically be getting what everybody gets, depending on how bad it is a variety of different things. And the current affair editors put up a photo of ivermectin. Oh, so, the doctor never mentioned either. But no one mentioned ivermectin, A Current Affair just for like, you know, the normal things that we talk about here on A Current Affair. The things that work like ivermectin,Dan Ilic  17:50  yeah. Cohen's I'm gonna use hosting woman. She's gonna use Corgi dewormer. That's.Lewis Hobba  18:00  I mean, she does love racehorses, right but she probably has a bit of ivermectin in one of our stables so yes, a lot of shares and ivermectin, I would say, yes. So they, they immediately apologise they took it down, they re edited and put it up but as you can imagine, the people who believe in ivermectin when they see a story that says the queen is taking either acted and then they say it taken down and then put back up without it and that has fueled like millions and millions of views curacy theories of people just going what is the queen know that we don't like the queen knows that worksDan Ilic  18:34  to that communityis one of the subjects of HR ah,well yeah, I mean, she's she's on the money isn't she? God we don'tLewis Hobba  18:51  play for our cricket team.Dan Ilic  18:55  As a subject that's close to the cleaning layer like how do you feel this must be a very strange moment where you're not quite sure you know what's gonna happen with cleaning?Steve Hili  19:04  Well, I mean, I honestly I'm I'm very chilled out about the wholeDan Ilic  19:12  idea if we had Adam Hills on the show he'd be very upset because he's now a Sir He's got an MBA these days. Oh, well,Steve Hili  19:18  lucky. Yeah, obviously he's doing much better than me. If I if I was to be a sir I'm sure I would also suck up to him. As as it happens, I'm not I mean, obviously you don't want anyone to die there. Yeah. ThatDan Ilic  19:36  this comment for a man with dominant chlorin YouTube to clean did die but they're trying to get a porn to the other side before someone else.Lauren Edwards  19:45  I don't know chess, but that's a good reference.Journalist  19:49  Every Australians within their rights to see you as being a hypocrite given how much electricity you consume in that big house. Interviewee  19:57  My electricity consumption is actually negative. Journalist  20:00  You don't think this is going to have an impact on retail prices? If you take over AGL Interviewee  20:04  I do think it'sgonna have an impact on retail prices. I think we're gonna bring retail prices down Voice Over  20:08  a rational fear. Dan Ilic  20:09  This week's third fear it's on Russia has invaded Ukraine. understandable if a country consistently gives you zero points on Eurovision year after year, that's the kind of behaviour that you should just assume is inevitable. Of course, Russia is saying it's not an invasion, the foreign minister is saying that it's merely a group of soldiers going on vacation and soon they'll be back home in their barracks fully rested you Western scum. So not an invasion, according to Russia. But Australia has put sanctions on Russia, which I can only assume means not giving them neighbours early or humming away. Oh, no, they actually hear the actual sanctions, right. Australia has put travel bands for the eight members of Russia's Security Council. This is a big move for a country, ie Australia that until Monday allowed no one to travel to the country. This is restrictions on imports, also from Crimea and Sevastopol. I mean, what are Australians importing from there? I can only assume like depleted uranium vodka, Twitter followers.Yeah. Lauren, let me ask you, what is this invasion really about for you?Lauren Edwards  21:21  I mean, I think it's just about Dick swinging, isn't it? Isn't that the whole idea? You know, from what I understand is that Vladimir Putin has been slowly but surely chipping away at democracy for however long and now it seems to be. He's getting to towards his imperialism that he's been looking for for a while. But for me, I'd like to know, you know, do the anti lockdown people of Australia know about this? Because, you know, they're very upset about dictators and taking over and freedom. And I haven't heard a word from them about this. So I'm just a bit confused. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?Lewis Hobba  21:55  Yeah, they've actually imposed quite a lot of restrictions in the Ukraine of their citizens to try to stay home during the invasion. That's a real double tick.Lauren Edwards  22:04  I feel like someone should tell the lockdown advocates and they should get over there really quick.Steve Hili  22:09  As a Brit, we said that we're going to respond decisively. That's what Boris said. That usually means he's going to have a party.Lewis Hobba  22:20  Do we think all of this could have been avoided if all those years ago when Tony Abbott said he was going to share it front Putin? And everyone in Australia was like this psycho. What are you doing? You're an idiot. And maybe in retrospect, we were all wrong. And maybe we should have let Tony just go over there and throw in hands like best case scenario. He beats Vladimir Putin, freeze Russia from the oppressive, you know, regime, worst case scenario, he loses and we get to watch Tony Abbott get punished. Like, to me, it's sort of a win win. That's That's true.Dan Ilic  22:53  Steve, who you have no idea what we're talking about. Back in 2014. No idea. Back in 2014. It may win MHC and 17 got shut down our prime minister then Tony Abbott, who is a raging minor Kirsten, you know, tough guy. He said he was going to shirt front, Vladimir Putin. And basically they're all that's an AFL term, isn't it? Lewis you're gonna grab someone by their shirt,Lewis Hobba  23:15  grab, grabbed him by the shirt and punch them in the chin.Dan Ilic  23:19  So here's the grab. Here's the grab here. I'll play it for you see if you can hear it. Look, I'm going to shift from Mr. Putin.Lauren Edwards  23:27  The Russians you already have?Dan Ilic  23:29  Yeah, just this great bit where he's like, I'm gonna show it from Mr. Putin. You bet I am. You bet. You know, like, just completely fuck it up. Incredible clip like it was a promise of one to one violence. Like that was the kind of diplomacy he was he was willing to do at that point.Steve Hili  23:46  It does feed into what a lot of the rest of the world thinks about Australia.Lauren Edwards  23:51  And what is that? Can you tell us what that is?Steve Hili  23:54  Well, basically, punch in Britain basically like Australia, but hasn't moved on in people's mind since Crocodile Dundee. So a lot of the I mean, I was having this conversation with someone the other day, he asked me who I thought the most famous Australians were. I couldn't get past Paul Hogan. Honestly.Lewis Hobba  24:17  He's not even an Australian citizen anymore.Steve Hili  24:20  Oh, yeah, I know, but tomato tomahto.Dan Ilic  24:24  We've had so many great exports since then, like Nicole Kidman. Hugh Jackman. Hannah Gatsby. Yeah, Ronny Chang will claim him sure of Russell Crowe. Lewis Hobba  24:35  All the Hemsworths.Dan Ilic  24:36  Matthew Hemsworth, Luke Hemsworth. John and Steve.Steve Hili  24:43  But, but, ya know, stillLewis Hobba  24:48  still cracking I don't even think I've seen Crocodile Dundee.Steve Hili  24:55  Obviously, sanctions when you were talking about the sanctions. I'm like, What are they gonna say? Casselman Forex we're going into Moscow. Why is Australia gonna do?Dan Ilic  25:05  That's an absolutely fanboy. On that point, Nick Harcourt, who is a businessman was interviewing Vladimir Putin at APEC in 2007 in Sydney, and he asked, he asked Putin, he said, When I asked pertinent APEC, what do you think of Australia? He replied, I never think of Australia.Lauren Edwards  25:26  He's basically Mariah Carey. I don't know.Lewis Hobba  25:29  It's that classic. That famous sort of meme scene from Mad Men. You know, the one where there's a guy in an elevator talking to Don Draper. And he's like, you know, I think of you when you go home at night and how sad you must be. He goes on this whole tirade about how sad Don Draper is, and then there's a boss and Don Draper's turns around and goes, I didn't think of you at all. The elevator opens and it walks out. Oh, it's called.Dan Ilic  25:57  I want to give a big shout out to our Patreon supporters who all signed up to here extra fear Kaylee green Kelly Clark Trishna Lindsey guest Nicole Roz quirk, Tom bellus. A Bob bryozoa Travis more blas Philip Westbury and man with Dominic claw, who is one of our superfans, and I'm always pumping the show and read it. Thank you, man with Dominic claw. Before we get into extra fear, let's do some plugs. Steve and Lauren. You got to plug anything that shows coming up.Steve Hili  26:23  Right so hold on. I can you hear me? Yes. Oh, my cut out. Can you hear me now? We got it. Okay, you got me? Yeah, I so I'm not really Yeah, I don't really have anything big happening at the moment. But so so No, really? No. Thanks. for that. That was good. Yeah. Can you hear me?Lewis Hobba  26:50  Nothing on Yeah. How's my audio? Is this thing on? Yeah, no dates.Steve Hili  26:55  Follow me on Twitter. I've got some things that are happening in a few months time that I'm not really allowed to talk about yet. I will be able to talk about soon. So follow me on Twitter, Steve Healy, ha Li and all will be revealed there Dan Ilic  27:10  and Lauren. You've got festival shows coming up?Lauren Edwards  27:13  I do. I've got my new Melbourne Comedy Festival show called Everything is a lie coming up. Not dissimilar from Vladimir Putin really coming up on April 18. For I think a week or so. And also follow me on on Instagram. I my handle is live laugh Lauren. For some anti inspiration, inspiration.Dan Ilic  27:32  Excellent. Now it's time for extra fear, extra extra fears extra level of fear, or extra extra extra fear extra. At the start of this week, there was a story that broke the made pretty much everyone in the do Gooding industrial complex spit out their coffee from their Cape cups. Australia's biggest polluter. AGL who is responsible for 8% of Australia's greenhouse gas emissions. That's one company who's responsible for pretty much the entirety of New Zealand's output. But in Australia had been bid on and been tried to be bought by friend of the show Mike cannon Brooks and Canadian capital fund Brookfield for $10 billion. The bid was an opening gambit by the billionaire it was rejected, but it's still in its early days and someone who knows all about the deal. And how it's put together is Brynn O'Brien for the Australian Centre of corporate responsibility. She's shaking her head she doesn't know. To hear that. You have to become a member of Patreon. You can we can hit subscribe on the rational feet extra channel on Apple podcasts. Brynn. Why should people pay a couple bucks to hear this chat?Brynn O'Brien  28:37  Look, if you're into insider trading, then you're not in luck. Don't have the inside scoop on it. If you want to hear a little bit of trash talking about the board of AGL then then that's why you should do it.Dan Ilic  28:51  That's on extra fear. So make sure you go ahead and do that. That is it for irrational fear. Big thanks to Steve Healy, Lauren Edwards, brain, O'Brien and Lewis haba. Also, big thank you to red Mike's the birth of foundation, our Patreon supporters and Jacob round. Until next week, there's always going to be scared off Good night. Oh, also, I'm starting a new thing. On Tuesday. If you give him your email to the irrational fear email list, you will find out something you find out about something called It's not a race. It's a content engine that is going to be ripping into fossil fuel funded candidates for the election. So if you want to know more about that, make sure you pop your email address into the rational fit email list. And I'll send you an email about that on Tuesday. And that's going to be something completely different to a rational field. So hang in there and check that out. So thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.