A Rational Fear

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutralThis week's show we go undercover as the Premier's boyfriend to get the arts funded, we open up a mystery package of seeds from China, KFC's feature film ambitions on the Lifetime Channel, also we discuss how Australia's climate action is ranked in the world. Fearmongers this week:Nikki Britton (Melbourne International Comedy Festival)Vidya Rajan (At Home Alone Together)Lewis Hobba (Triple J)Dan Ilic (A Rational Fear)Interview: Assaad Razzouk (The Angry Clean Energy Guy)Go see Nikki Britton's Christmas Is F#cking Cancelled: https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/christmas-is-cancelled/TRANSCRIPT BY OTTER.AI: Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Good I Lewis How are you?Lewis Hobba  0:07  I'm really well how are you?Dan Ilic  0:08  You're really well well, why are you so really well,Lewis Hobba  0:10  it's December it's the Christmas spirit. pine trees in the airDan Ilic  0:15  is because school's almost over as well.Lewis Hobba  0:17  I you know, I'm not 16 rightDan Ilic  0:21  now, at the end of June at the end of your work, the end of your work, that's kind of what I'm getting.Unknown Speaker  0:26  I'm not a take, yaDan Ilic  0:27  know, I know. All right, forget it. I want to say a big thank you to our new Patreon supporters. big thank you to Michael de muitas Brendan nevel and Leoni. supriyo big thank you for that. Now you can support a rational fear by joining the Patreon yourself for as little as $3 us a month the money goes to us paying the cost of the show and getting various folks to work on it. And also what you get is an ad free version of the podcast you also get access to early lineups, and you also get access to our Discord server, where we kind of talk about the show together and comedy in general. And you also get Louis 20% discount to live show tickets. Because in the new year we are planning some big live shots including our 100th episode Lois,Lewis Hobba  1:12  really excited about that the big, the big sin tannery the tan, I'm thrilled I wanted to I thought once we got to the nervous 90s we might you know, do a Don Bradman and go out with an average of 99.9 to never make itDan Ilic  1:26  who knows there's still time to fail, there is still time to fail. We're going to be doing a 100th episode in Sydney at giant Wharf in February. So you want to get discount tickets for that but also loads we're going on tour. We've got a gun trying to go to the Melbourne Comedy Festival once they announce what's going on there. But also we're going to be doing shows in Newcastle, Cannes, and Thursday Island next year.Lewis Hobba  1:46  That's what I love about this introduction Dan I find out as much as the listeners.Dan Ilic  1:50  By the way, you're gonna need to get time off work to come. It's Christmas time and there is no better way to tell someone you love them by saving the planet and giving them a go neutral sticker for their car. For every $90 go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the average daily emissions for a car and five bucks of that comes to us particularly when or only when you use the special link in our show. notes so plays to by going from a sticker head of the show notes click on through and by go to neutral stick up. I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land and the ordination. sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  2:29  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambroUnknown Speaker  2:35  and gumUnknown Speaker  2:36  and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:42  Tonight, scientists are examining a canister of dust sent back from an asteroid for signs of early life in the universe that one day in the future can be made extinct by a mining company. And at the 2024 Paris Olympics, breakdancing were featured as a demonstration sport to appeal to the core demographic of Gen X's who have to pretend to be young, and Apple has released $900 income cancelling air pods. It's the 11th of December. This is irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear the show that takes the scariest stories in the news and cleans them up for dinner with your mother. I'm your host former captain of SpaceX starship Dan Ilic. Let's meet our female guest for tonight. One of the sharpest brains probing design gustan throwing truth bombs on Twitter. It's the master of mirth hailing from Perth, it's Vidya Rajan. Welcome Vegeta.Vidya Rajan  3:44  Hello. How's everyone doingUnknown Speaker  3:46  very well, very well. How's Perth doing?Vidya Rajan  3:49  It's being Perth. It's really hot today. And for once, I think it's climate appropriate. I don't think it's climate change today.Lewis Hobba  3:56  Another day of trying to succeed as well. Some hot take some milk the gallon not coming to the cabinet meeting.Unknown Speaker  4:04  Oh,Vidya Rajan  4:05  typical magallon at this point. I don't know. I don't know this is poll numbers go down and point is thatUnknown Speaker  4:14  session toysDan Ilic  4:16  and she's one of the busiest stand ups in showbiz. Despite being COVID-19 this year, she's absolutely played every major venue in the country that she's legally allowed to be in fresh from gigs at the Sydney Opera House. It's Nikki Britton Hello, Nikki. Very well, thanks for joining us on rational fear.Nikki Britton  4:33  My absolute pleasure. I have quite a few venues that weren't legal as well. But you know, in a way, where did you play where did you play like anything can be a venue really, Dan, you know, you just got to think outside the square.Lewis Hobba  4:47  You have the great privilege this year Niki of having done the Opera House, full and empty.Nikki Britton  4:53  Yeah. Bizarre times. I did the Joan Sutherland theatre, beautiful theatre. Opposite to actual That's exactly right. The Opera Theatre at the Opera House where they usually have the prison the ballets and things so there is no way that they were going to get these filthy mouth Little Rock on tours to do their 10 minutes in any other year except now offers in Belize the costs too big to make it legal. So I did a streaming show there with 12 people in the audience who were all wonderful Front of House employees from the Sydney Opera House. And at three o'clock in the afternoon, want to hear about my filthy jokes, but bless their hearts for being there. And then the other night we did um, about 700 in the Joan Sutherland soLewis Hobba  5:48  data from the bottom now you hearNikki Britton  5:52  the best of times the worst of timesDan Ilic  5:53  they say you play the judge Sutherland theatre twice in your career once on the way up.Unknown Speaker  6:00  Exactly right.Dan Ilic  6:01  And he was arrested once for being mistaken for the Slender Man. It's Louis harbourLewis Hobba  6:08  No, and I've got these COVID pounds on there.Dan Ilic  6:12  Coming up, we talk with Assad reserved who's the host of the angry clean energy guy podcast out of Singapore about Australia's latest ranking on the climate change performance index. Spoiler alert. We are total pieces of shit. But first, here is our sponsor for tonight. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Peter Dutton hereUnknown Speaker  6:32  wishing you and your family a Merry Christmas and reminding you that just like Santa Claus, I'm keeping a list of who is naughty and nice. Previously, if you were an Australian citizen, and you made a joke about a minister for instance of my dog looking like in the title, there was no way I could legally tap your phone or jingle yo. But as of today, Ico can be my own personal Elf on a shelf. And I can spy on anyone I want foreign more Australian for Australian that looks a bit foreign or worse, the leader of the dreams. So if you're gonna buy certain jokes about certain ministers, remember, potatoes have eyes and they could see when you are sleeping, and I know when you're awake. Just consider yourself lucky that Santa Claus isn't coming by boat, Polo or authorised I'm opposed by Peter Dutton. cambreDan Ilic  7:30  always good to have Peter Dutton this morning. The first fear this week the New South Wales premier may have pulled off a magic trick more impressive than David Blaine flying with a bunch of helium balloons and fighting on TV at the same time. Yes, a New South Wales inquiry into the allocation of more than $250 million of local government grants is heard that the premier Gladys berejiklian, announced 255,000 for Council in the state of walga during the 2018 byelection months before the application was lodged and processed. Some are saying this is not pork barreling. This is just extremely efficient distribution of money to an area of the country where the premiers boyfriend happened to be a member of parliament in but what do we know? Did we know? Is it magic? Is it not the premier is you know actually really good at magic. In October the premier made some documents relating to how $140 million worth of grants were allocated, simply disappear. Vidya Rajan, how is the New South Wales premier pulling off these incredible magic tricks?Vidya Rajan  8:36  Oh, I mean, she's just so skilled at this. She also managed to defeat COVID in between, you know, her test and appearing in Parliament. You know, she just knew she didn't have it. She's very intuitive. She's really special woman. I don't know. But you know, I think maybe people are going too far on this one because it's really hard being a singer, like a woman who has a job and has things to manage. And poor Gladys, you finally found love. And we're all coming down on him. Like you've got to you've got to do things to keep a man the love languages, there's five love languages it's how you show love and relationship as complements, quality time physical touch, acts of service and of course gifts. And I really feel Darrell Maguire that's his boyfriend I know that he's willing to give so she was just doing what she needed to keep him sorry. You know feminism back.Dan Ilic  9:38  Nikki, do you agree with this? This this take this hot techNikki Britton  9:43  look Yeah, I I kind of respect jixi for like it's just a repair to burn it all down for love. You know, she's got a lot on the line. And she's like, Nah, my debt like her and Darrell in their leathers rotting off into the sunset on the back of a highway. Just down to walkUnknown Speaker  10:03  across the board and itUnknown Speaker  10:05  justVidya Rajan  10:10  it should be I know that you know, I'm basil lemons remaking Australia. I think I heard that horrible rumour to be about Gladys and Darrell.Unknown Speaker  10:22  Absolutely.Nikki Britton  10:25  I mean, she's not a politician doing dirty day she's a woman holding on.Vidya Rajan  10:33  And I don't know if you've had a look at, Darrell, I was speaking or saying anything. Um, what it really tells me is that they have a very physically satisfying relationship, because you kind of speak.Dan Ilic  10:48  I, you know, the Guardian actually reports. So far the premier has declined an invitation to appear before the inquiry. First of all, it's nice to be invited, isn't it? It's just nice to be invited somewhere to go do something. But secondly, a magician never reveals her tricks.Vidya Rajan  11:03  It's also like, you know, she's just she's standing up for women. Like, I feel like the suffragettes walked so Gladys could run away from accountability.Dan Ilic  11:14  You know, Lewis, would you ever try to forge a relationship with a premier to you know, get something funded of your own?Lewis Hobba  11:24  Well, again, I work for the ABC. I don't imagine I could be a good enough love to get some money out of a liberal premier.Nikki Britton  11:33  It's an that is some incredible love bragging. WhatDan Ilic  11:36  about you? Would you Would you ever consider to forge a relationship with the premier get something funded of Europe?Nikki Britton  11:41  Oh, look, I've I've had this kind of behaviour. modelled to me through several international boyfriends who wanted phases. So yeah, I'm familiar with how it goes. I definitely. Yeah, look, is it? Is it someone who's going to fund the arts? Yes, I would have a relationship with the premierUnknown Speaker  12:02  and we would all support you.Unknown Speaker  12:08  immunity guys.Lewis Hobba  12:10  just reading the news, it's quite confronting when you try to just take generally across Gladys berejiklian News. And you're getting sort of two streams of news one is about her sexual relationship. And the other one is about pork barreling because when you just open the article, it says, darling Jerry Maguire, you're like, Oh, I hope this is money. And then the other thingUnknown Speaker  12:31  Yeah.Unknown Speaker  12:34  From his own backyard is a worst example of pork barrel and you canUnknown Speaker  12:37  findDan Ilic  12:39  Okay, second fear this week out of nowhere. 260 on identified unsolicited mystery Sayed parcels have been found in litter boxes around Australia this year. These are the ones that have actually made it through the net. Over 45,000 other seed parcels have been stopped at the border seeds make up 75% of biosecurity, interceptions, the rest are my relatives bringing food back from overseas fear mongers, what the hell is going on here? Nikki Breton?Nikki Britton  13:06  Guys. I'm not entirely sure what's going on. But I'm just thrilled. This is the hot woman story that we needed in 2020. You know, because you know, who's winning out of the story or the biosecurity stuff and the sniffer dogs? They've had nothing to do in Australia for the last nine months. They are thrilled to pieces they've had they, I mean, that how are they going to work from home when their primary? Their primary job is to just interrogate backpackers who has foreign nectarines in a luggage. I haven't had a chance to inspect that a hiking boot tread for any shred of organic material. How have their eyebrows coped with nothing to do for nine months because they haven't had the opportunity to Pharaoh in judgement. When you suggest on your entry form that you have not brought back woodcarvings from Fiji. The workmanship is impeccable it'sVidya Rajan  14:04  very good of you to point that out Nikki because they've been really suffering they haven't been able to racially profile anyone in so yeah. You know, Iran got the 70 people in like India is like a COVID night man I know so like that's usually the bread and bada sorry.Dan Ilic  14:24  Well, the United States Department of Agriculture belays of the mystery seeds this happening all around the world by the way. In the US they reckon it's part of something called a brushing scheme which involves sailors sending unsolicited items which are typically light and easy to ship some people have reported getting on solicited right bends in the mail. Some people have reported getting on solicited grant Daniels in the mail. It's pretty it's pretty phenomenal. And then they post fake reviews to boost sales.Unknown Speaker  14:53  What what are they?Dan Ilic  14:54  What are they trying to boost sales of more seedsLewis Hobba  14:58  if it's a if it's a brushing scam guys, I might have an idea about who's doing it, guys. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  15:04  yeah.Lewis Hobba  15:05  Russian hackers. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah.Unknown Speaker  15:14  Wow.Unknown Speaker  15:18  This is a rational view.Dan Ilic  15:22  That's the scariest news story circulating the the net this week is that KFC is making a feature film on the lifetime channel starring Mario Lopez as Colonel Sanders. Here is the trailer if you've missed it a lifetime original Mini Movie, you don't answer my proposal. And now you're not answering my call.Unknown Speaker  15:41  I can find for the new chef.Unknown Speaker  15:44  Jessica is falling. But cook.Unknown Speaker  15:48  Jessica, skip town.Unknown Speaker  15:50  He has a secret recipe that's gonna change the world or the claims to have some secret recipe a secret recipe.Unknown Speaker  15:57  We all have our secret.Unknown Speaker  15:59  Cue marry my daughter. I promise they'll be more long weekends in your future. Mom, I have to tell you something. We have a problem. secret's out chicken man.Unknown Speaker  16:10  I'll take care of that.Unknown Speaker  16:16  Harland Sanders the new chef Mario Lopez is Colonel Sanders in a recipe for seduction premieres December 13. That newUnknown Speaker  16:26  time presented by Kentucky Fried Chicken.Dan Ilic  16:31  Can't wait for that. That's pretty extraordinary. Who's excited about the KFC Phil Nikki?Nikki Britton  16:37  I mean, I don't even know where to begin. It's it is described as a Mini Movie, which I'm sure they mean short film and just spin under the pump meaningDan Ilic  16:51  Wouldn't that be just a nugget movie?Nikki Britton  16:53  Hey, here it is just a bite sized chunk of a movie. Yeah. Um, I have some like, deep teenage fantasies about Mario Lopez. I'm saved by the bell days. So this is I'm in a real conundrum here. I mean, am I turned on by the 11 secret herbs and spices? Sure. Sure. Sure. finger licking good guys. Levels now.Dan Ilic  17:18  Do you guys do you guys think it's kind of an effective effective marketing vigia?Vidya Rajan  17:23  It's so good. Like it's such good not everyone's gonna hate watch it and they're gonna have a bucket of chicken in their lap while I do this. It's just, it gets in your head. It's perfect. I am vegetarian and I kind of want to buy kale.Lewis Hobba  17:41  Is it gonna spare Do you think like a copycat series from like every fast food chain? Like will there be a sort of, like Ocean's 11 heist of the hamburglar?Dan Ilic  17:52  Um, I'm really glad you brought this up. Because locally, some people are getting in on the act including Red Rooster. Have a listen to this.Unknown Speaker  18:00  The following trailer contains adult themes and gratuitous plucking from the people who brought you KFC recipe for seduction, and McDonald's mayor's mug to use comes in all new all Australian romantic fast Boomer drama.Dan Ilic  18:22  your legs, your breasts, and your skin is so I was gonna say crispy.Unknown Speaker  18:31  He's MY man. You can get stopped. Oh, yeah,Unknown Speaker  18:35  you're the chicken.Unknown Speaker  18:40  So if you ate chicken salt is that like cannibalism Of what? ThatUnknown Speaker  18:48  rational fearUnknown Speaker  18:49  presents? Red Ruta. Oh, yes.Unknown Speaker  18:55  Yes.Unknown Speaker  18:56  Oh, yes. Yes. One chicken one car at a Sunday. Spit Russ to remember. Read Russa when love takes you under it's worrying. It can leave you in pieces.Dan Ilic  19:17  There we go. I believe it's right at our say you go.Alright, moving back into truly scary topics the heat death of the earth and what exactly Australia is doing to prevent it as it turns out, not very much. But we are getting better. According to the climate change performance index when it comes to climate action. Australia has jumped from the bottom of the ladder up to rankings from 56 to 54. Well then Australia, we are finally bidding Petro states like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan. When it comes to climate action. We did it one day we will be better than Russia and Belarus and Lithuania will get There. Who knows, in fact, this weekend there is a United Nations summit on climate change, where countries who have made recent gigantic leaps and bounds in their climate policy have been invited to talk to other world leaders about what they're doing and how they're doing it. And guess who isn't invited? Scott Morrison. There are two things that happen this week on Saturday, the agent Sydney Morning Herald celebrated a huge shift in climate policy from Australia because it was leaked to them, that the federal government wouldn't be using Kyoto carryover credits in order to reach its Paris targets, which is kind of like celebrating Lance Armstrong for not using drugs to win the Tour de France. Well, then he didn't cheat the usual way. Excellent. Then on Tuesday, Catherine Murphy from the Guardian reported that inside this week's cabinet meeting, they've been actually no decision on carryover credits, and that we shouldn't get so we shouldn't basically give up on Australia cheating its way across the line with its Paris Climate obligations too soon, we can still cheat. That's really good news for everyone. Joining us to tell us just how the world sees Australia at this moment, is Assad reserved. He hosts the podcast, the angry clean energy guy, but he's also the co founder and CEO of a company that finances builds and operates renewable energy projects, right across Asia, as Assad. Thank you so much for joining us at irrational fear.Assaad W. Razzouk  21:14  lovely to be here. Thank you.Dan Ilic  21:17  That just tells how does how does the rest of the world kind of see Australia at this moment,Assaad W. Razzouk  21:22  I've been thinking about how to summarise it. And I think you know, maybe an image you can take away is the following you're at a dinner party, Australia's there, Australia has got a massive gas, indigestion, and bloating. And it's making noises that are just annoying everybody else around that dinner table. And in Australia's case, that gas is actually real. It's because of an obsession with natural gas and coal and kind of fighting lost the battle of the previous 20 years as opposed to the next 20 years. And so it's in this odd situation where it's annoying everybody, but it's kind of enough far away that you don't have to worry about it daily.Dan Ilic  22:17  I know that that kind of makes sense. But easier. And it is the animosity between, you know, our neighbours and us about how we kind of not taking any action on climate change?Assaad W. Razzouk  22:28  No, I think the best movement for change in Australia is going to be Australians themselves. It's not going to be pressure from abroad, except that the Chinese and the Japanese and the Indians eventually are going to buy a lot less gas and coal from Australia. And of course, the Australians, you know, are making a difference at a citizen level. Because if you look at that, that climate change performance in the index ranking in detail, what you see is that in renewable energy, actually, because of Australian households, and some of the Australian states are actually enthusiastic about renewables, the situation could be worse. I know it's only 54th overall out of 61 countries. But it could have been 60 years or 61st. Because it is actually 60 years sixth on climate policy. So it's literally bottom of the pack on climate policy,Dan Ilic  23:25  of course, because the United States is about to go through an epic transition and an epic pivot to actually take over the rest of that list. And probably by this time, next year, there'll be at the top of the list round the bottom. What advice do you have for Australia to kind of pick up its act?Assaad W. Razzouk  23:43  Well, on current trends next year, Australia will be together with Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan and Russia? Yeah, bringing up the literally these four. So there is a problem with the governing party because they seemingly just don't get it. They don't want to get it they have too many friends in coal and gas. And it's quite the difficult problem. Because there's not much of a solution other than the states doing more the citizens doing more and then an election literally, you know, what else can what what else can be done if the cabinet just wouldn't do anything? And actually is moving in some ways, the wrong way by backing you know, more gas, so more bloating and for more noise? That's gonna just play out this way for a little while.Nikki Britton  24:35  It's a bad dinner party. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  24:37  not a good one.Lewis Hobba  24:39  I never I'm very down is being being lost. But yes, that would be when all those you know, sometimes it's just if you're in the running, someone needs to come last.Vidya Rajan  24:49  Yeah, Australia can Steve bradbery its way out of this one, which is a huge it'll take meAssaad W. Razzouk  24:55  I love the fact that the Australians are pissed off by and large and so You know, something will happen, because the government is not actually carrying public opinion. And you know, you're going to have massive fires again, right now. And so this is going to be even more in the consciousness. Fraser Island. I mean, I know it's got only 200 people, but it's a UNESCO World Heritage Site. And I think two thirds of it is already gone. This is this year. And so the topic is going to stay in the consciousness of everybody. And eventually something is going to have to get at a federal levelDan Ilic  25:34  when it comes to changing that federal level in terms of their policy. What do you think will be the main lever for that? What do you think will be the main reason that they will actually change their policy?Assaad W. Razzouk  25:49  They won't hold the line. Once Biden is in charge, because between the China net zero commitment, the Japanese one the South Korea one and and then the Americans on top of the EU, I think Australia will probably fall in line, reluctantly, and problematically, but probably,Dan Ilic  26:12  I don't know Assad, and we have deep carbon lobby issues in Australia week, all of a sudden, our biggest trading partner could be Russia, if we'reAssaad W. Razzouk  26:21  everybody does, you know, everybody has a deep vested interest, carbon lobby, but eventually everybody got out of those shackles. And I hope, you know, the Federal that, actually, it's not even a federal government problem. It's just a ruling party problem. You know, so it's inside there. And even within that ruling party, you know, the former prime minister is no longer with the programme.Lewis Hobba  26:45  Well, I mean, the opposition still had a problem with a member of its Party and the Labour Party, basically saying that they should stop talking about climate change. So it's not hugely heartening in Australia.Assaad W. Razzouk  26:58  It's not but unfortunately, sadly, the new fire season is going to remind everybody, and I bet you this time, the Prime Minister is not going to go on holiday and not come back. Again.Lewis Hobba  27:13  We have such short memories. I think there's nothing will change until we have an election in January.Unknown Speaker  27:18  Yeah. Yeah, that's what you want,Unknown Speaker  27:20  like one election?Lewis Hobba  27:22  Yeah, like, yeah, hunters on fire. And we have to like duck around the fires and the floods and to get one and a half to like,Nikki Britton  27:32  battle through smoke to get to the polling centre.Lewis Hobba  27:36  times for another global catastrophe, like by the time pandemic kid who'd already forgotten about the fires. And by the time the sandstorms or the locusts tear will have forgotten about the pandemic in the election at the exact right sweet spot, the Goldilocks zone or climate change.Dan Ilic  27:52  Yeah, you want to get it sometime between COVID 20 and COVID 21. That's when youLewis Hobba  27:56  want. Yeah, this is awesome. The Furious franchise movie is like, yeah, COVID still COVID.Vidya Rajan  28:05  election, sausage sizzles will be easier. Just reach out.Unknown Speaker  28:10  Yeah, not powered by gas.Dan Ilic  28:12  No. Assad, one of the one of the most impressive kind of movers on the climate change performance index is India, India is in the top 20 of those nations and you've got projects in India, what kind of changes have you seen across South Asia, when it comes to embracing climate action?Assaad W. Razzouk  28:31  India has been amazing, but so has By the way, Bangladesh, for example, look, the the political will top down is there. You have to remember that in all these countries in China, for example, as well, that the population is dying from pollution. And so the issue is very emotive, it's not some concept about climate change that's moving anything. It's actually air pollution. And the Coronavirus actually made air pollution worse, because there's been studies that basic scientific studies or last few weeks that actually showed that if you have higher pollution in this city versus that one, then the Coronavirus death rate is also higher. Right? So it's all it's all linked well, and so and so India is very serious about what they're doing. In terms of renewable energy. Bangladesh is in the process of cancelling something like 90 coal plants. The Chinese are incredibly serious as well. Everyone is getting really serious around Australia and Japan, by the way is now just joined the bandwagon. And all these are Australia's biggest markets for its fossil fuels. Right. So something as I said something is going to give otherwise, Australia, asset prices are going to changeDan Ilic  29:52  for you like what is the what's the most hopeful story you can tell us about this space? what's the what's the one thing that you kind of you know, any Your day to day operation keeps you going.Assaad W. Razzouk  30:03  Well, if you flashback to the 2008 2010, the coal capital of China, which I know very well, because we've developed some renewables projects there is called Taiwan, the city of Taiwan in Shanxi Province. I remember when I first visited, you could see the problem from call in people in the colour of people's teeth and in their skin. If you visit today, the city is 100%. Electric taxis 100%, electric buses, there is literally no more air pollution in that town. Wow. And the coal mining has really cleaned up their act on top, of course, having moved quite a bit towards renewable energy. And so frankly, if one of the poorest cities in China can do a complete turnaround, I think Australia can as well down so you know, that's, that's, I think, the lessons, there's so many heartening lessons in China and India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, the Philippines, along these lines,Dan Ilic  31:14  Assad, but we're just poor little Australia, which we've just been, we've just been like rotting off the back of a mining boom for the last 20 years. None of us have any money. We spent it all on big TVs, Assad, we can't possibly do it, Assad,Assaad W. Razzouk  31:27  the private sector is doing it in Australia. You know about that, that? The Mike cannon Brooks project, for example,Dan Ilic  31:35  he's been on this show. Yeah,Assaad W. Razzouk  31:37  yeah, of eventually building a humongously, large renewable energy power plant and exporting solar and hydrogen to Asia. And then Fortescue, the mining company, also seems to have seen the light and announced the single biggest commitment to renewable energy in the history of the world. Right. So so people are moving in Australia, and they're moving big. It's literally just the governing party, which is just the odd man outDan Ilic  32:12  aside, if you could say one thing to prevent you from getting a visa to Australia, about Australia's climate policy, what would it beAssaad W. Razzouk  32:19  to prevent me to getDan Ilic  32:24  your podcast is the angry clean energy guy, but you've been incredibly moderate on this podcast?Assaad W. Razzouk  32:30  Oh, have I? Well, well, you know, I mean, I've been moderate, frankly, because the the the governing party, the future of Australia, and the future of climate policy, is simply not in the hands of the government parties, so they can pretend what they want. I mean, it's happening with or without them. So I am, you know, angry and in some respects, but actually quite optimistic about about Australia in you know, in particular, because nobody's listening. The private sector isn't listening and the citizens aren't listening. And you've got the highest rate of household solar in the world.Lewis Hobba  33:08  Plus, we're already so shit that it won't take much to get that up.Assaad W. Razzouk  33:13  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So as long as nobody's listening to the government, you know, we're good.Dan Ilic  33:19  Well, Assad, thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear. It's great to get a global a global perspective of where Australia sits. A big thank you to all our guests tonight, Nicky Britain Vidya Rajan Louis harbour. Have you guys got anything to plug aside? You want to plug anything? No, thank you. I'm good. Okay, great. Vidya, would you like to plug anything?Vidya Rajan  33:38  No, I mean, just follow me on Twitter. I put my sketches up there, etc, etc.Dan Ilic  33:43  Nikki Britton? Have you got shows coming up?Nikki Britton  33:45  Um, I've actually written a Christmas pantomime. That's happening in Sydney next week at giant Wharf on Wednesday, the 16th. Right, it's called Christmas is cancelled. Yeah. And it's all about Santa being a cyst straight. Why? by a certain age, which is really getting everything wrong and not being very woke. But it's actually very irreverent, super fun. And it's raising money for performers and others who have had a really tough year.Dan Ilic  34:15  Oh, that is brilliant. Louis, do you have anything to plug this week?Lewis Hobba  34:19  No, that sounds much nicer go to Nikki thing.Dan Ilic  34:21  Yeah. JOHN Doerr. Next Thursday, a big thank you to rode mics, the Bertha foundation go neutral. Our wonderful Patreon supporters, Debbie bluestein. Adds Gabby bolt, Robbie McGregor, Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline. Usually I'd say next week. There's something to be scared of Good night, but hang around, because I'll leave you with Gabby bolts sultry Red Rooster theme, which was too good to not play on. It's on. Here it is here. We didn't know if we'd have to use it or not. So I kind of used a little bit of it.Unknown Speaker  34:49  Let me play. There we go.Unknown Speaker  34:51  Do you remember some days when your mom stopped? You could smell the sweet Do I remember how I used to think that Chuck was worth the way IUnknown Speaker  35:09  read Bruce? So they cook it right to make it Sunday every day.Unknown Speaker  35:20  Are you ready? Are you ready? ThisUnknown Speaker  35:24  chicken is ready. Are youUnknown Speaker  35:30  ready for this chicken? Are you ready? Are you ready?Dan Ilic  35:48  Big Thank you. Debbie bolt has just put a call in on the Facebook stream. I can't believe you're playing this right now. Thanks for a great Oh Yeah, me too. I'm gonna go get myself a flavour wrap. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for a great show.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral This week's show we cover Foxtel going offshore, Australia and China's meme warfare, Rudy Giuliani's crack legal team in Michigan and we interview two blokes who invaded the cricket pitch at the Australia vs India test match at the SCG.Fearmongers this week:Cathy Wilcox  (SMH)Tosh Greenslade (Mad As Hell / The ScoMo Diaries )Lewis Hobba (Triple J)Dan Ilic (A Rational Fear)TRANSCRIPTION FROM OTTER.AI Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Unknown Speaker  0:04  Gay Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:05  Hello, Daniel. HowDan Ilic  0:07  I look I'm well I'm feeling pretty good because we've got a whole bunch of new Patreon supporters including Maureen Morgan from the stand up school of hard knocks, they do. They teach people how to do stand up, Louis, that's what they do. We've also got someone called C 316801. For they've become the Patreon supporter.Lewis Hobba  0:27  I'm giving away being funded by Russian bots.Dan Ilic  0:30  I think we're actually being funded by Elon Musk's daughter, I think Alex Thornton has also signed up Dylan Joel has signed up, Laura wells has signed up and a guy called Jared Morris now I'm pretty sure I know this blog when I was in LA I was when I first moved to LA in 2016. I was quite lonely. And I went to a bar just to go try out some really nice food because that's what you do when you're on your own. And the barman was jerem he was an Aussie guy and he recognised from the telly and he gave me a free whiskey. So thank you Jeremy, for joining up and giving to you. Jeremy is the bomb in the cape serving. It's fantastic.Lewis Hobba  1:07  That's amazing.Dan Ilic  1:08  Another way to support irrational fear is to offset the carbon emissions with your car with a go neutral sticker for every $90 sticker go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the yearly average emissions for a car and then five bucks that comes to us to do that. To Go Go neutral and support irrational feet use the link in the show notes. Louis I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land whatLewis Hobba  1:30  land Do you want also on gadigal landDan Ilic  1:32  your nation, sovereignty was never said we need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  1:36  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambro and gum and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:49  Tonight after monster speculating the opposite US Attorney General bill Barr finds no evidence of voter fraud but finally finds evidence of a backbone and Prime Minister Scott Morrison hits back at full corners parliamentary sex scandal episode with a new initiative called knob keeper and gatherings of 50 people are now allowed on dance floors in New South Wales critics say this will just lead to an increase in murder on the dance floor. It's the fourth of December 2020 and we're holding the vaccine This is irrational fear.Hello, welcome to rational fit. I'm your host former quarantine housekeeper Dan Ilic. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's one of the sharpest with featured daily and nines newspapers. She's also the newly elected President of the Australian cartoonists Association. Please stop the votes because it's the Walkley award winning Kathy Wilcox. Oh, sure. Do we have to call you madam? President now?Cathy Wilcox  3:00  Yeah. Only only Madam President. Mrs. President is all right to Boss Lady.Lewis Hobba  3:06  What are some of the roles of the president of the of your new your new position?Cathy Wilcox  3:13  I really don't know. I'm gonna have a minute all that. I suddenly I suddenly had to run the meeting the annual general meeting on Sunday morning, which was a frightening thing to have to do. I initially sort of said, can't the old President still run it? And he kind of said yes, but then, but then I kind of got a whiff of power and my my nostrils went Oh, what the hell I'll take over, rush themDan Ilic  3:36  cafe crush them you would a little pencil.Lewis Hobba  3:39  I like to imagine that everyone. on the board meeting of the cartoonists associate. There's like 10 people and then there's 10 caricaturists on the outside at each one.Dan Ilic  3:50  And as well as being one of the longest serving comedy minions for Sean McAuliffe. He's also an author of one of the funniest books to start your Christmas stocking from the actor award winning mad as hell. It's touchscreen slide. Hello. Hi. Hello, touch someone.Lewis Hobba  4:05  Congratulations. Yeah, wellDan Ilic  4:07  done Tosh. Getting an actor. That's great. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. I had a baby a month ago, but you know thatUnknown Speaker  4:18  you got an act.Lewis Hobba  4:19  Everyone's got babies. Is your baby in the business? We don't care. Not yet.Dan Ilic  4:24  Is it time to exploit? Isn't it time to exploit your baby to be in the business? Let's hope so. Cuz on my career certainly isn't doing much.Cathy Wilcox  4:33  And you you appear to be recording from from inside a cupboard. Is that correct? Yeah,Tosh Greenslade  4:37  I'm inside of my wardrobe.Dan Ilic  4:39  I had to put so I had to put this This isn't good. Good podcasting, but I had to put this shirt down off the hook just in case anybody saw because I've got toUnknown Speaker  4:51  have the same shirt.Lewis Hobba  4:53  held up an identical shirt, the one he's wearing and it's a surprisingly loud, Nike sort of tie dye.Unknown Speaker  5:00  stravaganzaCathy Wilcox  5:01  I liked it so much. You bought it twice. That's amazing. IUnknown Speaker  5:04  bought it too big.Unknown Speaker  5:05  I bought too big for the first time it was like it Look, I'm fat that's notCathy Wilcox  5:10  yours. You're pregnant pregnant body and then you'll have one for afterwards when you snapped back to your post baby body.Dan Ilic  5:17  Tim Chima on YouTube says is that from the shag shop on chapel Street. It's a very Melbourne reference. And you've met him before. It's Louis harbour. Welcome, Louis.Lewis Hobba  5:27  Oh, Hello, sir. I forgot we're still doing introductions. Yeah. Hello. with you. Sorry, I couldn't be with you last week. But yeah, huge congratulations on being the officially funniest podcasts in Australia. Damn. Well, it is great.Dan Ilic  5:39  It's all of all of us as everyone who contributes so thank you. Coming up we speak to two people who are bringing back a much love Ozzy tradition, the cricket pitch invasion. We asked them if they didn't note and if they turn but their bowls, but before we get there, here's a message from this week's sponsor.Unknown Speaker  5:56  toit denied What do you mean I can't say the Joe Biden style the election by using North Korean fishermen sick of having your free speech trampled on trying to be anti semitic but that pro semantics semantics have got you down. You said it's censored by the political correctness Nazis for being too much of an actual Nazi. Exactly. Well, it's time to drop the fact checking fascist on Facebook and time to cut the truth telling Trump's Twitter introducing a place where you can say what you like when you like with people you're like, with no fear of coming across as wrong or batshit crazy because they're just like you it's haha the social media network by right wing nutjobs and conspiracy theorists Paula, a place where no Lives Matter and masks will give you COVID-19 and Donald Trump Jr. is the second coming up. Donald Trump theUnknown Speaker  6:42  media runs right away Russian disinformation wowUnknown Speaker  6:45  Can I say the moon landing was fine. Can I say COVID-19 was started by Bill Gates I would be forced to instal microsoft excel in our brains if that's what you believe. Can I say that? Would on Tuesday did a weird thing and that's why I'm not on this podcast. But you can on Paula, if it's wrong, awful unlikely to start a race riot. You can say it on Paula. Paula, where every day is opposite day and opposite day is not opposite day.Dan Ilic  7:18  Alright, let's get stuck into the fears first fear. foxtel is now a foreign broadcaster. According to Michael West in June newscorp saltbox tell to a news, another News Corp company and then sold it to another news called company and then sold it to another News Corp company based somewhere in Delaware, USA. foxtel is just like this tiny babushka doll in the middle of an American Fox called news Empire. It's like, like all babushka dolls as well. It's now foreign, opaque and spreads propaganda. What's interesting here is that a few months ago, the federal government had a $10 million no strings attached to foxtel. I assume that was spent on moving fees. Do you know how much it costs to ship 36 years of Simpsons tapes to another country, let alone, let alone You know, a state that has no corporate tax fee amongest shouldn't be concerned that foxtel is now an entirely foreign owned entity. Louis.Lewis Hobba  8:11  I mean, I cannot believe foxtail still exists is a truly staggering, I tried. I was one of the many people I think who you have flashes. I think during Game of Thrones, I was going through a particularly, you know like, I don't want to be a pirate, which I think is still true. As I you know what? Yeah, sure. I'll buy foxtel whatever. And then I it was so expensive. I was buying a box set of Spock of Game of Thrones each week. And then I'm like, well, that's fine. I'll get the other things and admittedly what they're like two or three good HBO shows. You get through those? Yeah, like what am I doing here? It's four times more expensive than anything else. You know where your money's going. It's going into, like foxtel It's heartbreaking. It is so wide. What does it offer currently, and it knows it too, which I guess is why it's just trying to like get as many freebies before at Fox offDan Ilic  9:03  it totally Crikey has actually kind of done the numbers here. they reckon over since 2017. Fox has received $67 million dollars from the federal government. And considering that you know, it was once a billion dollar company that never pay tax. Should we be asking more folks Oh, have they become by default? Our third public broadcaster KathyCathy Wilcox  9:23  I can't even believe that they kind of weren't already foreign anyway because they're they are effectively foreign because because Murdoch is foreign now. Isn't he? Like he he gave up being an Australian didn't he?Dan Ilic  9:35  Yeah, he did. And he he so he registered to be in he did registered as a citizen of Delaware that's where he that's why he's technically a citizen what wayCathy Wilcox  9:44  in what way was foxhill ever ever Australian except you know, except Well, we know it would just import you know American American right wing politics and and do it this their way and so they just, they just sort of getting it back. But they do seem to be able to pocket quite a lot of cash on the way especially, as you say all these handouts plus plus note no taxes paid. So, I mean, if they would go to America and then stay there, and and not come back here, that would be quite a good way ofDan Ilic  10:14  doing it. To be to be fair to foxtel. I used to work about eight or nine years ago, I used to work in the foxtel call centre. Yeah, I used to work in the retention department. People would ring me up every day, noUnknown Speaker  10:26  way,Dan Ilic  10:27  I would say, and we say to me, foxtail is too expensive. It's not very good. It's full of ads. Why am I paying so much for foxtail? And I would say, Would you want foxtail? If I could cut the price in half? And they would say yes. And then if I could get a lot of people to do that, I would get a commission for that, which would beUnknown Speaker  10:45  Oh, it isDan Ilic  10:47  sort of capped out at about 20 $500 extra a week on top of my base wage. can't expect them to be spending that much money on people like me and discounts and also pay tax. It's not fair. Tosh. How much in like, comparatively, how much more did you earn as a foxtel employee than you do working for Sean McAuliffe? Well, I work for the ABC. We actually we don't get paid in money. The dry biscuits that I get as payment if I sort of converted them to dollars foxtel definitely wins.Lewis Hobba  11:18  I wonder if since Fox so when it was in Australia, screened predominantly American comm shows now that it's in Delaware, maybe it will screen predominantly Australian show like maybe Delaware will we'll be seeing that going? Why are you doing reruns of neighbours. We have great Delaware programmes right here.Dan Ilic  11:38  Yeah, and the maybe Australian artists who need to make it in America can just make it in foxtel. And we can celebrate them like we did with Andy Donner the other week getting on there. You're like, Oh,Lewis Hobba  11:48  I thanks to Fox so I made it big in LA you made it big in LA Yeah, del la. La.Unknown Speaker  11:59  This is a rational view.Dan Ilic  12:02  Let's move on to this week. Second fear Australia is at war with China over a meme on Twitter. When a low ranking Chinese official tweeted a photoshopped image of an Australian soldier committing violence against an Afghan child it caused the Australian Government to respond very quickly by denouncing the image publicly on Scott Morrison's WeChat. Not since Greg heartlands today FBI investigation after his Twitter account likes to tweet by BB w comm pumper 69 has the Australian Government taking action from a tweet so quickly? Incidentally, the way chat posts from Scott Morrison's account in return was pulled off the social media app because you violated way chats. Terms of Service WeChat said the post involved use the use of words pictures and videos that would incite mislead and confuse the public. We commonly know this in Australia as a Scott Morrison press conference. Fear mongers Is it time we bit the bullet and started a new division of the army solely focused on names. I like I like that in this situation. China is essentially the new Charlie Hebdo. Australia, Australia are the bad guys in this situation. We're the ones that have done the war crime. It was a meme about war crimes. We've done the war crimes. Our report said that we did the war crimes. And then they published a meme about it. And we asked for an apology. It is I think that hypocrisy is pretty strange. Kathy, you've got a different take on this.Cathy Wilcox  13:31  I will look there, there's quite a few elements of hypocrisy going on here. So for one thing, it was on it was on a tweet, Chinese citizens don't get to tweet, they don't get to put anything any old thing out. For another thing. It was supposedly a cat cartoon by a Chinese artist. And, and and in some of the coverage that artists you know, strongly held feelings about Australia and and our and our, our abominations in Afghanistan, you know, and needing to have, you know, do due consideration and and that's just his independent statement there that happened to be picked up by this I love the way you everybody says low ranking official that's gonna be rubbing into that low ranking official Hello ranking here. But look, if that artist were wanting to say something about let's say Chinese treatment of wiggers in in you know, in their camps and or whether tenement Square was covered up or you know, any number of other things what whatever was going on in Hong Kong, if that artist had wanted to do something about that, from within China, there would not be there would not be a cartoon, there would not be an image to see because that that image would not be able to come out so so this this image is only able to come out because it is a pro Cut Pro CCP line. That's the first thing or the second thing and and you know and then two Compare it to Charlie Hebdo, as some people have been saying, oh, how hypocritical of Australia wanting to suppress that, that cartoon when when they would have been no, just we Charlie and all the rest of it and wanting to have the the the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, you know, free and published. I don't think there is any equivalence to saying, we find this offensive like, okay, I disagree that, you know, calling for to have it taken down is useless. And that was no, no, there was no point in doing that on the part of Scott Morrison, but to say that you're offended by it is not the same as marching into the offices of a publication and gunning down the cartoonists? You know, it's just, yes, it's perfectly alright to be offended by something. It's all right to say that you're offended by something that doesn't stop the free speech. But there's no free speech in China anyway. So. So I just think that we've we've Suddenly, I think we we kind of reflexively turn on ourselves and assume that any kind of thing we might say against, you know, another country in another another regime is going to be, that's going to be racist of us to say that this is not about race. This is about the totalitarian regime that controls the message that does not have free speech. And that is currently playing us and playing Scott Morrison, like a bloody, you know, Stradivarius, and this was a this was just a, you know, this was a total, send out that send out the hook. And unfortunately, Morrison took the bait and was, you know, real real right in? So um, anyway, I think that I think that there is no, there's no argument to be had about free speech here, because there is not at all about free speech, and also to the people who say, We care more about being offended by a meme than we do about what happened in Afghanistan. Sorry. But the last couple of weeks, we've been talking about what happened in Afghanistan, that it has gotten a lot of coverage has got an awful lot of cartoons done about it by myself, as well, as, you know, many of my, my colleagues and and many, and many people in in, you know, high places and journalists, we've been saying, you know, plenty about that. And it is it is coming out because there has been an inquiry in this and there are going to be consequences, we hope.Lewis Hobba  17:13  But no one is saying that journalists haven't been signing up. I think that the goaling pot was was the fact that this is coming from Scott Morrison. I mean, I think that the division of response from him, was what people were saying was was insane. You're like, yeah, this guy won't, won't be strong against the armed forces, because it's a political minefield. But he's very happy to defend a fairly minor tweet from an irrelevant person. Yeah, it was pretty bizarre. IDan Ilic  17:41  think that it's that the diplomatic incident is come is stemming not from their human rights abuses, but from the fact that they made fun of our war crimes. That's that's where we draw the line. It's like, Whoa, stop. And I think it's it's interesting that it sort of seems to be coming after the the trade sanctions have started to kick in. That's when we start to get shirty with them now that there's not a lot of money flowing into our country from them, we can start to go Whoa, what are you doing there?Unknown Speaker  18:09  Stop that you need to say you need to say sorry, to us. Whereas if if there were no trade sanctions, I feel like that that tweet would have gone under the radar. That would have been a I've had a private conversation with with President GE, instead ofDan Ilic  18:23  you need to apologise publicly. Well, ICathy Wilcox  18:25  suppose the the trade sanctions as they've been, you know, progressively happening and all the various other little sort of warnings about how how they're unhappy about 14 things that we've done or something like that. But you know, one after another trade sanctionsDan Ilic  18:37  Yeah, I believe it's the essays called 14 things I heard about you. That's what?Cathy Wilcox  18:43  Yeah, so and that was as, as they were sort of becoming a little bit more desperate, and more and more desperate in trying to sort of sound like, oh, but we still want to be friends, you know, Oh, yes. They're unhappy about this, oh, we don't want to read too much into the fact that they don't want to Bali or they're, you know, putting slapping tariffs on the wine and stuff. And, and it's true that this that this meme is the point at which everybody goes, Oh, oh, so that's what they feel about us. Okay. Feels like it feels like we've we've finally understood that he's really not that into you, you know, after trying to see the nice side.Dan Ilic  19:24  Yes, it's so funny how they just don't care as well. They don't really care about this base, because, you know, they're China. They're the biggest economy in the world, and the kid in primary school with behavioural issues, who would not take his tablet and he'd be a bit naughty. And then the teacher would be like, come up to the front of the class and and say, Sorry, and instead he would just like whip his balls out and then climb up on the roof. Do not give a shit because they could destroy the planet. The days of Donald Trump are coming to an end. A rationalUnknown Speaker  19:55  friend of mine who's very smart said you've probably you've probably been investing More than anybody else makes you probably the cleanest person in this countryDan Ilic  20:05  in US elections news now, it's been a month since the US election. And I don't know about you, but I am so thankful I no longer have to listen to us politics podcasts. So I know Well, I felt like I had to up until the election, but now I feel like I don't have to do that. No, no, no,Lewis Hobba  20:22  no one was saving like, guys. We need elections is gonna be won or lost on danila.Dan Ilic  20:30  Well, one person who did care was Donald Trump, and he still is he still he really hasn't let it go, Louis, I don't know if you know, this event, Dano is still fighting the system claiming electoral fraud, fraud. And he's got these number one guy on the case, the high flying lawyer slash penguin from the Batman franchise, Rudy Giuliani and his team of hotshot lawyers have headed to the Michigan State Legislature to argue the case for voter fraud. Now, I've got a couple of clips here. I want to play them for you. The first one can be a hang on a sec. For folks who haven't played this before. If you want me to stop the clip, I just say Hang on a sec, if you want to chime in. So this is one of Rudy Giuliani's hotshot lawyers. And maybe she could be I don't know, a little bit drunk.Unknown Speaker  21:13  The code, the pullback, the pull book is completely off. completely off on that. I'd say that poll book is off by over 100,000. That poll book, why don't you look at the registered voters on there? How many registered voters are on there? Did you do you even know the answer to that?Unknown Speaker  21:35  No, I guess I'm trying to get to the buyer out here.Unknown Speaker  21:37  00.Unknown Speaker  21:39  So my question then, is if yes,Unknown Speaker  21:43  how many Wait, what about what about? What about the turnout rate? 120%.Dan Ilic  21:51  Yeah, cafe.Cathy Wilcox  21:53  So it's so it's Giuliani who's actually going now Hang on, man. He's trying to real real hurry. He's like leaning over to go. You know, you're actually not coming across the same.Dan Ilic  22:08  Giuliani Giuliani is pulling, he's pulling the move in the pub where you go, Oh, come on, man. Come on, come on, and you put your hand, you put your hand on your friend's back just to be like, I'm here. You need to be grounded right now. You'll have very, very drunk. Representative Johnson ask us a question.Unknown Speaker  22:24  So the poll book number I get there's two things that could happen here. Either the poll book number, if ballots are counted multiple, multiple times, there's two options. Option number one is that the poll book numbers are not going to match. They don't the actual not by thousands and thousands of votes that we see right now.Unknown Speaker  22:44  You take them up again, take a look again,Unknown Speaker  22:46  option number two is that they essentially were we're filling in names of people who didn't vote that people too. So is thatUnknown Speaker  22:54  Johnson asked his question, and thenUnknown Speaker  22:58  my question is, Why 30,000? That's nothing.Unknown Speaker  23:03  What did you guys do take and do something crazy to it?Lewis Hobba  23:10  Oh, it's so hard to like, get a sense of what just happened if you just don't an audio only medium. But imagine someone who is losing an argument but thinks they're winning. And they get their arms across, and their chin goes up. And then right after they finish their sentence, their eyebrows, do a single pump. That's what it looks like. When someone is so wrong, that you don't know how to correct them. And they it's a beautiful thing to behold.Dan Ilic  23:41  And then when you hear other people laughing in the background doing this, this person has no clue what she's talking about. or she might be a few drinks inLewis Hobba  23:51  Rudy Giuliani just met her at a bar like an hour ago. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  23:56  Let me go. Let me go. Let's go her she'sUnknown Speaker  24:04  shady. And Rudy. I'm going aheadUnknown Speaker  24:08  30,000 votes, so I know what they're feeling.Unknown Speaker  24:12  I know what I saw. And I signed something saying that if I'm wrong, I can go to prison. Did you?Unknown Speaker  24:20  Okay, well.Unknown Speaker  24:22  This thisDan Ilic  24:24  is just Jessie Sure. At this point, like this is just an MTV reality show. It seems like they've scripted that to be an MTV reality show. That's real housewives, realLewis Hobba  24:34  lawyers of Trump, I would watch.Dan Ilic  24:36  I would watch that until I die. That's exactly what we're watching. Right. So anyway, so I've got a second clip. I'm gonna play it for you in for now, it's important that you have your headphones on and you're listening very carefully to this well considered argument from Rudy Giuliani.Unknown Speaker  24:51  The point of order, the answer that I gave you is they didn't bother to interview a single witness, just like you. They don't want to know the truth. Well, you probably We know the truth. Did you guysDan Ilic  25:07  squeezes out of fog mid sentence? And he's our counsel looks at him like he just fired during a congressional hearing. Then she then she smells it at the end she clearly smells him and goes, yep, he didCathy Wilcox  25:23  was one of his more compelling arguments.Dan Ilic  25:29  I think the Michigan they should be wearing masks on their face and their ass as well. All right, let me play it again here because it's so good.Unknown Speaker  25:37  The point of order, the answer that I gave you is they didn't bother to interview a single witness, just like you. They don't want to know the truth.Lewis Hobba  25:50  The smirk on his co counsels face and she just hands up by going, Oh, man, that guy.Unknown Speaker  25:58  And why should we not believe the reported attempts of you to try to seek a pardon from PresidentUnknown Speaker  26:03  I will ask that he be he be disciplined for that.Dan Ilic  26:07  Joining us now to blacks who are taking matters into their own hands when it comes to bringing back the great Ozzy tradition that has been missing from our cricket games, the pitch invasion, except that rather than doing it nude for their mates, our next guest did it clothed in the name of keeping fossil fuels in the ground. Ben burdette and Joshua Weinstock ran into the field last weekend during the india vs. Australia game and then join us now on irrational fear. Welcome, Ben and Josh. Hello.Ben  26:34  Hi, guys. Hi, Dan. Thanks for having us on.Dan Ilic  26:36  Oh, no, it's great. It's great. It's great to have you guys here. It's really great to have you guys here. Yeah. So tell us, why didn't you do it nude?Unknown Speaker  26:43  Oh,Josh  26:44  we kind of we got on there. And we looked around and we thought, would we be more popular if we had done it knew? Like, we kind of thought, you know, maybe maybe we would be serving the tradition. But basically, we had no interest in being charged with indecent conduct.Dan Ilic  27:01  You can only get charged for one thing at a time. Tell us tell us why they hit you. You ran onto the field with a specific reason. Tell us why did you do that. And soBen  27:08  what happened last week is all of a sudden the State Bank of India read its head again about and was making noises about maybe like learning the $1 billion that Dan is seeking to get the coal mine underway. In any way the planets all aligned. And there was this cricket match. And in the call went out for a couple of people silly enough to run out on the field to do this job. The call whoUnknown Speaker  27:34  calls you who calls my job?Lewis Hobba  27:39  is really not take any gig I can get? Oh, it's a fine, I'll be fine. I'll still take it.Dan Ilic  27:48  You know, tell us about the fight? I mean, you do get fined for doing stuff like that. Right? How much did you get fined? And how did? How did you pay it?Ben  27:55  We're not entirely sure yet. It's still in the post?Josh  27:57  We will find out. We'll find that out in court.Ben  28:00  I got told five G's.Josh  28:02  I got told a few hundred, which could be them trying different psychological tactics on us or it could be them being confused. But we'll find out in court.Dan Ilic  28:10  I think it is about $5,000. Yeah. Have you got a plan in place to try and get that tight?Ben  28:16  Yeah, well, we've got to go to court. So hopefully that will get diminished quite a long way. And then we'll we'll see how that goes.Cathy Wilcox  28:22  Invest in renewables, they'll they'll have a good return payoff, you find.Ben  28:27  Exactly, exactly. I mean, at the end of the day, the story went very well in India with 1.3 5 billion people watching the cricket pretty much so you know, as good as his irrational fear is, you know, it's very successful podcast. You know, Josh and I are arguably the most famous people here this week.Dan Ilic  28:47  Well, I can tell you now by looking at the stream, we've got 12 people watching the stream right now. So yes, slightly more, slightly more famous, then pay for?Ben  28:58  Yeah, speak to stuff and Danny, they can help with your marketing.Lewis Hobba  29:01  Have you have you? Because I know some of the reception from maybe non politically minded cricket enthusiasts was a lot more negative. Have you received a lot of that feedback personally?Josh  29:13  No, I'm, I mean, in fact, like the reception we got on the day for one, we got some Indian cricket supporters afterwards who came up to us like we were celebrities, they got plenty of selfies with us. And our signs. On the pitch, like when we got out there. The crowd seemed kind of confused. They ended up booing, because like, but the first 30 seconds, we got some good applause.Dan Ilic  29:36  I don't know. Actually, I fought much cricket before and I would be thankful for the interruption.Ben  29:44  The funny thing is none of us really knew much about cricket. Like we sort of want to build a little bit but fortunately, Josh is dead. Brief this not whatever you do, don't stand on the pitch. So I followed that advice. And actually, there was a common there was a comment made by a lady A two GB commentator that actually said oh, well, at least I didn't stand on the hip. So I'd take that as a positive.Dan Ilic  30:08  I've actually got one of the news stories up from YouTube, which one of the Indian news stories and it's so funny like listening and reading some of these comments from Indian people, and people in India with you. And it's it's quite surprising, like Indians hate Adani as much as people do. It's pretty great. Like, fully support your brother hope you drive this crooked businessman out of your country. We need such enthusiasms from Indians as well. I'm Indian, but I suggest you guys don't let a Danny into Australia, good citizens showing their responsibility for the future generation. If we send our political leaders there, they will divide Australia into religious grounds and weaken the real issue. These these are seriously engaged Indian. So also, Danny, this is amazing.Lewis Hobba  30:53  We need to send you to Delaware with a stop foxtail t shirt.Unknown Speaker  30:57  I will do it.Unknown Speaker  30:58  We'll do it. Yeah.Ben  31:00  We do it for the T shirts. And so yeah, I mean that that was that was kind of our objective was just to highlight this with the Indian people because the Indian people have a great history of social uprising. And yeah, we live by Gandhi, of course. So you know, now that they know about this, I don't think there'll be they'll be putting up with it.Dan Ilic  31:21  I love this comment from Peter Lola on our Twitter feed. He says it should only be $500. If you don't touch the pitch, I think better. As opposed to $5,000. As long asLewis Hobba  31:31  you don't sandpaper, the bowl, you should be fine.Dan Ilic  31:35  This was much part of a much larger action. There were other people at the grounds also protesting with you there were people leading chants in Hindi at the front of the grounds. It did it did that kind of stuff get a good reaction from Indians and Australians walking into the ground.Josh  31:50  We've been told it did. They had a they had a big prop. wicket up the back that people could throw a ball that would like Donnie written all over it and who doesn't like throwing a ball at a big prop. Apparently, they got a lot of good responses from outside. A lot of people who had great fun though, and they actually there was that and then people turned up to the FBI offices earlier in the day. So it was a whole thing.Dan Ilic  32:12  All right, excellent. Now tell us like tell us the nitty gritty of deciding when to go out. How do you pick your moment to invade the pitch? Yeah,Ben  32:21  we wanted to do it in the first moments. It was the first few overs and you know, the the anxiety had been on since you know quarter to four in the morning for me. So just to get it out of the way was very good. We knew we had to be thatDan Ilic  32:39  you had like Dutch courage. You say you had like a half strength SCG beer. Yeah, yeah, exactly.Josh  32:47  What a full strength.Ben  32:49  And yeah, we went up to the top and to pretend we're going to the shop. We took a hamburger box props and we're staying there for a little bit and then lady was trying to move us on and then there are some Indian cricket fans at sorry, our placards which which were actually fake ones covering up our real placards.Josh  33:05  Let's go Aussie.Ben  33:06  Let's go. Yeah. And so we got, we got selfies with those guys. And then then all of a sudden yo try and concentrate on when when there was a break in the overs, and that's when it was go timeJosh  33:17  trying to figure out where the cricket was at. Okay, so it was at the fifth bowl. Was that the six ball? What's going on? Yeah,Unknown Speaker  33:23  how does this work again? Yeah.Lewis Hobba  33:25  How did it end? How did you did you get tackled? Did you get to Did you discuss how far you would take it? Did you take a knee? Did you did you give up?Josh  33:33  And the short answer is it ended eventually. We were We were so prepared to kind of rip off our disguises and run out there before security tackled us down. It took such a long time for them to get out there. I was out there. I done I done my route. I was standing there with the sign of my head. It got to the point where I was thinking we just going to have to walk ourselves. Like does anyone does anyone mind us beingDan Ilic  34:01  if anyone saw the the footage of this? I'll chuck it in the show notes. But the security guards were a little on the look. Let's face it that we've all been we've all been a few kilos during lockdown. They just looked like it hadn't been been a proper security guide for a long time.Lewis Hobba  34:17  Taken sort of a parent parenting a toddler approach to like strangers with it. It's like look, if we chase them, they're gonna keep runningDan Ilic  34:30  slowly and take them traits.Josh  34:33  If we kept running there could have taken forever.Dan Ilic  34:35  Yeah, exactly. It How did it feel when you hit the centre of the ground? What did that feel like? centre, the scj knowing all the cameras are on you knowing that you're beaming out to a billion people in India.Ben  34:45  Yeah, the monkey was off our back the main the main fear I had was just not not pulling it off. So we're just pleased to be out there Really? Yeah. And yeah, that wasLewis Hobba  34:57  like that. It just felt like you were giving us a place Match speech. just happy to be out there.Unknown Speaker  35:05  credit to Matt Canavan, but I think we're better man on theCathy Wilcox  35:09  right. Check it just taking one protest at a time.Josh  35:15  Yeah, all thatBen  35:16  you might not have picked up was you Josh and I both cop the longest wages all the way back into the into the into the sales in the stadium and the stadium has sales just for those who are interested. And glad to see if you're listening. You get get some better decorators on the new ones because it's a bitDan Ilic  35:37  strange. Block walls. Ben and Josh, thank you so much for joining us on rational fit. Thanks, guys. Thanks. AndBen  35:44  now your follow stopper Danny.Dan Ilic  35:46  Yeah, we'll do it now. Tosh, you've written a book, The scomo diaries. Tell us a little bit about that book. So it's basically just a as a book of roasts, really, it's just a ripping on the government. But it's a comic retelling of Scott Morrison's first 18 months as prime minister, illustrated by Andrew Weldon. So he's done some amazing stuff in there. It really is just me ripping the government and everybody in it for a solid 250 pages. It's a really quite a good raid, though. I did mention to you earlier, I found it quite depressing, because I was just reliving that year and like reliving the year and it was it's accurate. It's accurate to the date. How did you actually write it? Did you actually write a joke every day as something was happening in the news cycle? No, no. So I just went back like it's all just there on the news websites. It's all archived forever until the internet stops and electricity stops after the fall of man. But the the it was so easy to write because it was just you googled the date and his name, or you Google the date and Australian Parliament. And it just gave you the entire day's happenings basically. And then I just made jokes about it. The book is called the scomo diaries. And we've actually reached out to the PMO to see if Scott Morrison would read us out of chapter. He sent us a response but he sent it on WeChat and it's been pulled down. rate so instead Rupert Degas who does all of our rates for us, did us a version here we go. Have a listen to this.Unknown Speaker  37:14  Ninth of may 2019. A little quote I read from Kristina Keneally today, Peter Dutton has been led out of his cave. He's been kept underground somewhere by the liberal National Party. Now first of all, Peter doesn't live in a cave. He lives in a sort of nest, Mike from rotting pieces of meat. These kinds of lies are typical of labour. I do however, quite like the idea of keeping Peter underground. I'm looking into the legality of it after the election, although we might need to be careful about how we do it. Given the tendency of potatoes to multiply when buried.Dan Ilic  37:56  Beautiful staff Tosh discovered ours is at Tao cafe.Cathy Wilcox  38:01  I was wanting to know if if Tosh is the author of the tweets of Scott Morrison.Dan Ilic  38:07  No, no, I've had that account on mute on mute since I started writing it because I didn't want any of that to sort of seep into my brain and accidentally rip it all off. So I don't know who that is. But they unfollowed me when I announced I was writing the books I think they don't like me but then I said that they unfollowed me and they re followed me. That is it for rational fear. Big thanks to Ben and Josh Kathy Wilcox toss green Slade and Lewis hapa if you got anything to plug KathyCathy Wilcox  38:32  please don't buy any more of my tea towels. I had a whole bunch of orders in the last couple of weeks when I had a bit of publicity and I'm just drowning under orders and I'm not going to be able to get them all up by Christmas and I don't know how how to tell people that so so you know if you've got any ideas about how to how to let customers downDan Ilic  38:50  let me know I will put this video out and we'll tweet it out and then you can read it in the read nice passive aggressive way oh you just put on weightLewis Hobba  38:58  definitely the most self sabotaging plug we've had on the podcast everUnknown Speaker  39:07  Yeah, yeahLewis Hobba  39:09  turn me off on Follow me.Dan Ilic  39:12  Louis tuna plug anything anything at all doesn't have to be anything you're involvedLewis Hobba  39:16  with? No, you can follow me on on social media and send me messages that I may or may not respond toDan Ilic  39:22  Ben and Joshua in a blog anything before you go.Ben  39:24  I will wait we were actually part of extinction rebellion as well. And we've got a festival of love and rage coming up on the 19th of December so check them out on Facebook.Josh  39:32  Come to that all the grey phone.Dan Ilic  39:34  Excellent. big thank you to red marks the birth of foundation go neutral. Our Patreon supporters David bluestein Killian David Rubin Degas Jacob brown on the tabernacle timeline. Discord server has been going off this week. Big thanks to the Peters Phil ads COVID kisah and Maddie Palmer and all the contributions from the discord team. Until next week, there's always somebody scared. I was good night.Transcribed by https://otter.ai A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral We have some old friends of the show and someone new. Chris Taylor (The Chaser) Alice Fraser (The Last Post) And Imaan Frank Hadchiti joins the podcast. Qantas's vaccinations, The Magna Carta people of the UK, and Turkey Pardoning in the USA. We unfortunately didn't connect to our guest interview Michael West on the crumbling of the Murdoch Empire, we assume he was assassinated mid-podcast by John Barilaro. BIG NEWSWe won the Best Comedy Podcast at the Australian Podcast Awards. Beating out such luminaries as Hamish and Andy and Tony Martin's Sizzle Town.  I trust that last year's winners Tony Martin and his producer Matt Dower will take the Australian Podcast Awards finding with good grace, and will proceed with a peaceful transition of power.  It's what makes the Australian Podcast Awards great, we may differ on what we think is ‘humour,' but we can all agree farts are always funny.Last Chance to Add Your Submission to the submit something to the House Standing Committee on the Environment and Energy.Today (Friday 27th) at 5pm is the cut off time for submissions to the House Standing Committee on the Environment and Energy. Use GetUp!'s very simple form here to fill out a couple of paragraphs about why you believe fossil fuels should stay in the ground and how electrifying industry is going to make the world a better place. https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/climate-justice/climate-change-bills/will-you-support-the-climate-act?t=e44m3cQ1N---------------TRANSCRIPTION FROM OTTER.AIUnknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Hello, Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:05  Hello, Daniel. How are you?Dan Ilic  0:06  I don't know if you're aware, but you and I, we are now the award winning irrational fear podcast.Lewis Hobba  0:11  Yeah, I heard we're officially the funniest podcasts in Australia. What a low bar for the whole country.Dan Ilic  0:17  And anyone who's new to listening to this podcast, can I just say I just send some really exceptional bits in for the awards? So don't expect to be funny. straight off the bat.Unknown Speaker  0:27  Yeah,Lewis Hobba  0:28  what what do you have to send in you have to in like, 20 minutes or something, and we make a general podcast, that's about 0.01% of the waffle on an average podcastDan Ilic  0:37  and show across the year, there's gonna be five minutes of really crappy stuff that's gonna have you in stitches. And that's what you can expect from us. Across the year, five minutes is gonna make you laugh.Lewis Hobba  0:48  If you're listening to this, think of yourself as a gold miner, going in, going under that going into the shaft. And who knows, maybe you'll spend five years of your life and it'll be for nothing. Or maybe within 10 minutes, you'll find a little nugget of gold, and you'll be able to check it in and you'll be you'll be happy for the rest of your life.Dan Ilic  1:07  People who have been happy for the rest of their life, and they found the gold include new Patreon supporters. Phil Thank you, Phil. Michael David lai adoos Frankie Lee has upped her contribution from 20 to 30 bucks a month. That's, that's like three standard subscriptions. Frankie, thank you very much for that. And a big thanks to James Shira, who dropped us a $10 support package as well. You can support us. We may be award winning, Louis, but we don't have many sponsors. In fact, the only people who sponsor us are our Patreon supporters.Lewis Hobba  1:36  Yeah. Obviously still not getting paid despite the award can't cast the award for money down andDan Ilic  1:42  you can't you know what i did you see this clip of Kyle Sandilands, who double bass on tik tok and walked up to him and he was in sitting in his bed late, and some taco went up to and said, What do you do for a job in car sounds like a little bit of radio, I do a bit of TV. I'm a publisher. I have a music company, and I drive a Bentley. Well, it doesn't I drive a 2000 Corolla so you know that that's comparable. Incidentally, we bake Collin Jackie. Oh, what do you mean, they went in the category with Oh, no, we beat Hamish and Andy, but they have houses in Queenstown. That's fine.Lewis Hobba  2:15  Yeah, but also thank you all again to all the new Patreon subscribers, particularly thanks to the one who did it before we were famous and award winning, you know, your ones we won't forget.Dan Ilic  2:24  Yes, yes. big thank you to those people who signed up in the very early days before we were good. Before we were award winning before before nobody actually whom I was gonna say before nobody knew names. Who am I kidding? Nobody knows. And David Lewis. You and I have had illustrious careers on national broadcast is another way they willLewis Hobba  2:42  people either know who will know one of my names at a time. They know it's a Veronica and Lewis all they know, Hubbard hanger. They never know them both at the same time.Dan Ilic  2:50  I'm still convinced that we only one because people thought you were Tony Martin.Lewis Hobba  2:56  That's the dream. Yeah, I'm still cashing those get this checks.Dan Ilic  3:00  Another way to support irrational fears to offset the carbon emissions from your car with a go neutral sticker for every 990 dollars ticket go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon, which is about the same as yearly emissions for a car and five bucks that comes to us, Lewis, you're not joining us on this week's show. But you'll be in Melbourne. I hope for you the best.Lewis Hobba  3:17  Thank you. Yeah, I've had enough. I've had enough. I was only in it for the awards. I've won the award. And now I'm retiring from this podcast.Dan Ilic  3:25  I assume you're gonna go and head off to three AWS and get that sweet, sweet, three IWA money.Lewis Hobba  3:30  Yeah, I won't be around for the rest of podcasts. And unfortunately, as we are recording this, I'm on a plane to Melbourne. I'm going to see my family who I haven't seen thisDan Ilic  3:38  Christmas. Oh, exciting. That's fantastic. I think that is a beautiful moment. I think there are there's plenty of Sydney, Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia wide readings happening all around the nation, which is absolutely terrific. Well enjoy that. I'm recording my end of irrational fear and gadigal Land of the urination sovereignty was never stated. We need a trading. Let's start the shock.Unknown Speaker  3:57  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks. cambro fan COMM And section 40 of our rational fear recommended listening might emerge your audience. TonightDan Ilic  4:11  the death of Diego Maradona sends the world's football fans and cocaine markets into a tailspin. And Charlie Amelio becomes the first tik tok to reach 100 million followers with six hours of content or approximately the amount of time it takes the average Social Media Manager to explain tik tok to their boss and Scott Morrison calls the Cali more Gilbert business with around a miracle apparently doesn't know how governments work. It's the 27th of November 2020. And it feels like the last week of school but it's not. This is irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear the show that takes the scary news of the week and finds the comfy bits to rub our faces in. I'm your host for official photographer of the Prime Minister Daniel itch. Let's meet our female guest for tonight. Joining us from the free state of Melbourne. He's the host of Italy's Daily Show and The biggest name, the biggest smallest name and Australian economy. Economy. Why not? It's a man Frank che good I am on what's it like to walk the streets of Melbourne?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  5:17  It's fine.Dan Ilic  5:22  And she's one of the most in demand comedians on the podcasts today her boss as in her boss demands that she do at least a podcast. It's Alice Fraser get Alice what other demands is Andy Saltzman have for you?Alice Fraser  5:35  Oh well the the problem with Andy is he's such a delight to work with that we end up always working together though he demands to do the most puns that always have to do slightly fewer puns than him.Dan Ilic  5:49  And from the chaser, it's the multiple actor nominated Chris Tyler, Chris nominated for upright and at home alone together this week. Both of those are in the comedy category. What happens if neither when ChrisChris Taylor  6:01  if neither wins, it'll be a victory for comedy. Can I just say them and I genuinely surprised that you are humble enough not to raise yourself earlier. I feel very nervous doing this podcast this week with you because of course you won an award something much better than an actor award a a an Australian podcast award, the best comedy podcast in Australia and this puts pressure on on us tonight. A lot of people have been shooting in for the first time tonight and you know be their first experience of irrational fear of this shit. It's on us and so I just want to say no pressure. I notice Louis very strategically decided to have this one out.Dan Ilic  6:42  Oh have you know that tonight is is is shit on purpose. Because of that. We want to lower expectations so we can win again next year. It's not often Ubaid, Hamish and Andy a tiny mountain sounds like it's really exotic.Alice Fraser  6:55  I feel like it's very important if you win an award to prove that awards are worth nothing because inevitably you will just want to prove to everyone that no one really deserves in a world.Dan Ilic  7:09  Coming up is rupert murdoch going broke investigative journalist Michael West will be joining us to help put the pieces together. But first, here's a message from this week's sponsor ZurichMathias Cormann  7:18  on camera. Wow, Madrid, Brussels. Wow. Birth camera. Wow, good eye. I'm former finance minister Mateus Coleman. Travelling during the pandemic can be hard, which is why I fly with common airlines on bypass flying a private jet across the world to prove your green credentials to European politicians to get a tax free job can cost over $4,000 an hour. But because I'm not an economic girly, man, I just got the audible I have to do it. So it's 100% free. That's right free. I don't even work for the Australian Government anymore. Somebody else buys for it. That's financed baby fly common airlines every seat is up business See, and a few on Australian stock in Europe trying to escape overnight been dry a chop off.Dan Ilic  8:08  Alright, let's get into the fears. Speaking of airlines angry customers have swore never to fly cuantas ever again after Alan Joyce said that COVID vaccinations would be mandatory on future flights. Although just like Qantas job security, it's only 70%. Effective. Yes, if you want to fly quanis, you'll be strapped in a chair and stabbed aggressively with a needle or as they call it, economy. And if you're willing to pay twice the price, you'll also be stabbed with the needle but with more leg room, which is great. And this is of course it's absolutely terrible news for any anti vaxxers for mullumbimby. Who will have to take their trips the usual way with acid. So is it okay that Qantas is demanding international customers get the jab?Chris Taylor  8:50  I'm okay with this. Um, firstly, from a health point of view, I think you've we've spent the whole year waiting for this vaccine. If one exists, then why wouldn't you have it? But the main reason I'm all pro This is because it will introduce more segregation in flying. You know, remember the old days where there was a smoking section and a non smoking section. Now actually divide anti vaxxers from vectors where there will actually be a curtain between people and in the same people to make it really obvious is that the moment you've kind of had to guess, or are they an anti vaxxer or not, by now if we just either just have a separate class. And I suggest, you know, there must be something worse than cattle classes. They're just a, you know, a needle prod class or just luggage hold will do. Or even a separate airline. I don't know what virgin is doing these days. But if they could pivot just to become the anti vaxxer airline. I think it could be very goodDan Ilic  9:40  for all Yeah, jab star becomes the airline that was frozen.Alice Fraser  9:46  Well, I have to disagree with you completely. Chris, I think this is a ridiculous infringement on personal liberties. And while we're at it, we should get rid of the rule that you're not allowed to fly when you're very pregnant. The rule that you're not allowed to fly when you're on fire or carrying liquids in bottles of more than 100 million I feel like the people who are anti Vax pre flight are the kind of people who defiantly drink half a litre of expensive shampoo with customs. Because how dare you tell them that they're not allowed to bring a bottle of shampoo and a wet goat on board?Unknown Speaker  10:16  What's this?Dan Ilic  10:17  I'm over 400 mils. All right, let me get rid of this right? on my head. A man you do a lot of flying? How do you feel about this?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  10:26  I don't know. I just wonder how they gonna enforce it. You know? Like, is it gonna be that sort of sneaky add ons? When you book your ticket? We're like, yeah, you know, if you don't click the dead stop box, you know, it's gonna cost you $70 to get the job at the gate, you know? Is it gonna be like that?Dan Ilic  10:42  It's kind of interesting, Chris, like you were saying how we were waiting for this moment to happen. We're kind of now putting our responsibilities because governments are so scared to do anything because of political pressure. It's up to now, corporations to actually do the moral take the moral high ground and show moral leadership. Yeah. Is there anything? Is it Do you?Chris Taylor  11:01  Do you feel weird about that? No, no, I'm kind of grateful. Because I've lost hope waiting for governments to show moral leadership on this. I What was interesting for this in me on a serious note was how early Joyce went with it, because we will see a lot of this not just in the airline industry, but anywhere where you know, where there's group sort of situations, they probably weren't like schools, churches, gyms, and so forth. I think there will be a stipulation soon, that unless you've had the backstay out, so from a sort of marketing point of view is a bit unsanded. A bit Todd Sampson, he was sort of surprised. Joyce came out so hard and early. But he did say in his comments, I think, didn't he that he'd been speaking privately with his counterparts at other airlines, and they're all going to do it. So any anti vaxxer who thinks they just won't fly quarters from now on? What maybe have a lot of other options if they're all on the same page on this? You didDan Ilic  11:54  bring up branding and marketing. This is really interesting. This is bad news for anti vaxxers. They are now adding force on the internet complaining about this, and including this one who is a TV psychologist from the UK. Her name's Emma Kenny, she's got some suggestions for quartersUnknown Speaker  12:09  in 20,000 people are damaged by vaccines, meaning that compared to the amount of children that damaged by COVID, there is no comparison. Vaccines will damage more children. And they will help so cuantas are advocating for the willful harm of children. Is that what you want your next year strapline to be cuantas willfully injured children? Fly with cuantas. But we might just NGO kid. Oh, well,Dan Ilic  12:41  what do you think about that in mind?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  12:43  I'm for injuring children.Chris Taylor  12:45  So people forget, I mean, this is extremely on brand for cuantas. They they've been exploiting that Children's Choir for years taking the most places that are freezing cold, like the London Bridge at 5am to shoot an ad in the middle of a little room on top of the Opera House. I mean, the light shade has a load on that. So I think this is a good move for corners and very consistent. I just sort of want to know if they'll be you know, we talked about business class earlier, like, is there sort of like a deluxe vaccine and sort of budget version one is the one that you can lace with, yeah, you know, Bali, or Dom Perignon, or something. So it's a little bit more fun. Like how are the how the Jetson is gonna embrace this.Alice Fraser  13:28  One of the things that I'm I'm very sorry about about this conscious announcement is that they're now going to have to change their song because it's not true anymore. There are no cities that never shut down. His own backyard is a worst example of pork barrel and you can findDan Ilic  13:47  this week's second fear. I like a turkey pardoning Chris you like a turkey pardoning in a tradition going back decades, President Trump is officially part of the turkey to save it from ending up as part of a Thanksgiving faced. Additionally, in terms of tradition, that's going back only a few hours, Trump also pardoned a chicken former NSA adviser Michael Flynn. Sadly, it's too late for Flynn to avoid all homies officially been roasted and devoured by the press, and on close inspection has revealed no sign of a brain spine or guts. Chris, Turkey patterning is a very strange cultural thing in America. You know, it's up there with Halloween and school shootings. How do you take a part of the celebration yourself?Chris Taylor  14:30  But I watch it every year with bemusement, because it's amazing how commonly this tradition comes along and a really bad time. Like I remember, during the Vietnam War, like there's always very dark stories going on. And the President has this one little window of this sort of novelty pantomime routine where they pretend the world's quite fun. And I think it went on when we were bombing Kuwait. Last year when Trump was in the middle of impeachment proceedings and came out to do the traditional fun bit. It's the company Bit of the presidency. And it's it's sort of naff, isn't it? And I it's also quite mccobb. I mean, because everyone goes Oh, Isn't it lovely we part in a turkey. What we don't forget is one of the turkeys doesn't get pardoned, like to be brought along, one gets its throat slit and is then roasted in the White House oven. As does every other turkey in America except the one that's chosen. How do we know why that one was chosen? Who's behind it? Did you vote? Did you see the counts? Were Republicans and Democrats allowed to watch the vote process to determine which 30 gets pardoned?Dan Ilic  15:36  Well, actually, Chris, I don't know if you've seen this clip. This is from 2018 this is Trump explaining the process and how it actually works. This is from two years ago.Donald Trump  15:45  The winner of this vote was decided by a fair and open election conducted on the White House website this was a fair election. Unfortunately carrots refused to concede and demanded a recount and we're still fighting with carrots and I will tell you we've come to a conclusion carrots I'm sorry to tell you the result did not change it's too bad for carrots. Wow.Chris Taylor  16:15  credibly preceded and I love how jolly he is about carrots you're about to meet a teen I mean yeah guy that used to run what Miss University when he didn't when he you know when he crowned the winner? Did he then turn to the runner up and go off to the oven. I mean, it's it's it's so bizarre. And the one thing I was gonna say you sort of touched on this a bit the the actual news this week, because Trump sort of in a much more, I guess what you'd call grotesque pardoning chapter at the moment where all his mates who may or may not have been involved in Russian collusion are gradually getting pardoned, because he's got form pardoning really dodgy people. How do we know the turkey he pardoned this year? He's innocent. Like, I suspect this turkey may have been involved in collusion. I don't have evidence like this saying if Trump's pardon the turkey, who know that turkeys about Apple.Alice Fraser  17:09  So the turkey this year is called corn after the other and D percent of the American diet that isn't factory meat. But no one thinks about like the post pardoning life of the one free Turkey. I mean, does it just leave on in a horrifying, massive survivor's guilt until it's eaten by a wolf or regret. And if you listen to the speech this year, Donald Trump also called the turkey beautiful, which is the way he attributes value to anything. And as a satirical comedian, who's frankly tired of the lazy leftist denigration of Trump just because he's a brash, hollow showman with the vocabulary of a child. I refuse to maliciously misinterpret his harmless turkey compliment by suggesting that it indicates that he wants to fuck the Turkey. Turkey democracy.Mathias Cormann  17:57  I mean, you know, some states, you know, we're ahead. All right, stop counting overhead, and then other states were behind. So, you know,Unknown Speaker  18:06  Donald Trump is a genius. That's what the J stands for.Dan Ilic  18:09  This week's third fear. Remember the sovereign citizens that all that sovereign citizen bullshit we had to deal with during our COVID lockdown? Well, in the UK, people are trying to get out of COVID restrictions by quoting the Magna Carta to the police. According to one article, a salon owner has repeated violations and she's clocked up 27,000 pounds in fines, 27,000 pounds in Australian dollars, that's enough to get you a block of land in the leppington triangle that is significant. Now, specifically, this salon owner and many others have quoted article 61 of the Magna Carta, which was only enforced for a few months, over 800 years ago. Or was it I don't know, awaking up you shape or go read a book. Or you could read a book if books were invented? No, when the Magna Carta was written books got invented 200 years after the Magna Carta was written so forget reading books. You know, when conspiracy theorists say you know, do your own research, I just say fuck this one and try to a constitutional lawyer because it's so much easier. Alice as the only lawyer on the panel and as someone who's lived a long time in the UK, what's going on here?Alice Fraser  19:13  Well, the Magna Carta, or great big charter in English is a very hot document so hot, you might as well call it the Magna Carta, and so big you could call it the Magna Carta. Now it's a pivotal part of British legislative history and it's such a beautiful artefact you usually collect khaligraph at the hands of monks probably because back in those days, relatively few select people could read or write. Jeez, those were the days imagine Twitter if it were just a few chilled out monk swapping tips on how to go to D mediaeval baby Jesus badly, like really badly and have a look at some of the weird adult baby Jesus pics or mediaeval manuscripts at the time. But anyway, it's just such a specific legal nerd piece of legislation for these people to be waving around at their cell on doors. You think that if you knew anything about the Magna Carta, you know it's not relevant unless you're a 12th century Baron and I don't Don't want to question your lived experience, but I guarantee you have way too many peopleDan Ilic  20:05  actually actually Christie's a 12th century Baron he is, asAlice Fraser  20:11  well Also, if you're citing the Magna Carta as a reason that you're allowed to keep your shop open during COVID restrictions, maybe you want to look at the regulations of that period on how people with leprosy or other illnesses the genesis of the term quarantine and easily during the play.Dan Ilic  20:28  That's absolutely true. Chris, what have you been quoting any obscure constitutional documents to places you've been going about your your lockdown experience?Chris Taylor  20:38  No, but I have noticed a trend with this. Like it was interesting in England where we've seen the Magna Carta quoted remember Karen from Bunnings in Australia earlier in the year, they seem to have a suspiciously very good knowledge of the the charter of human rights as she was trying to be convinced that Paul Bunyan stuff why she shouldn't have to wear a facemask. I don't know what it isn't Batman cases, or people who just don't want to pull their weight when it comes to public health and the public good. But they seem to have a love of arcane law, or very esoteric law. Now, I don't know if they've all been to law school before they go to Bunnings or wherever they just they've learned one phrase that they've learned are the you know, the Geneva Convention, and just sort of dropped that into a good discussion for the poor receptionist at Bunnings thinking that some capsule get out of jail free card but or I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe these are great legal scholars have arcane esoteric law. And maybe they right Dan and was wrong, Boris Johnson is wrong. And maybe we should be listening to these scholars who just have chosen to go into hair salon work. I mean, they could have been a barrister. They could have been a great eminent lecturer in law at Oxford or Cambridge, but they've chosen to come here because they're a person of the people.Dan Ilic  21:52  I just like the personnel sorry, beta police person or a bannings employee game. Oh, Geneva Convention. Right this way, ma'am. I am so sorry. No idea. A man what's your take on this?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  22:07  I'm just I'm just glad to see people in the in the West figured out that they're not as free as they thought they were. I mean, that's always fun to watch. You know.Dan Ilic  22:18  See, is this from your, your Lebanese experience.Imaan Frank Hadchiti  22:22  This this season like I struggle with, like, Oh my god, we're running out of toilet paper. What else in the world Jesus?Dan Ilic  22:29  Well, it's this time of year where TV networks roll out what's on offer for next year and surprisingly, a stack of new shows are coming out that are critical of the government. TelevisionUnknown Speaker  22:39  has never been disgraceful, presenting all new 20 to one coach sandals.Gabbi Bolt  22:49  Remember when the whole country was on fire and the Prime Minister went on holidays to Hawaii and his office wouldn't tell us where he was. I was like, Whoa, crazy. It was like I'm a celebrity Get me out of here. But it was your the Prime Minister get the phoneUnknown Speaker  23:02  back here. Hello. As you realise Noah is to be held responsibleUnknown Speaker  23:08  for like two days the immigration Minister and the Attorney General the day they were accused of bullying and misogyny. I can't believe we forgot about that. I actually I can't Can you believe that?Gabbi Bolt  23:18  Yeah, everyone got distracted by war crimes which are cool, but not sexy.Unknown Speaker  23:21  Story. WhatUnknown Speaker  23:22  are we talking about?Unknown Speaker  23:23  I forgot cry. As you realise the general public don't care two words. RubyUnknown Speaker  23:33  wrote aUnknown Speaker  23:33  French word or hair.Unknown Speaker  23:37  That's 22 um, coalition scandals, followed by the all new you can't ask that of a Federal Minister. Whatever happened toUnknown Speaker  23:47  Angus Taylor's water deals? Yeah, you can ask that. Whatever happened to paladins contracts have managed to turn out that either. And whatever happened to the bushfire recovery? Well, you can't ask that because doesn't exist.Unknown Speaker  24:02  Plus of ciders. Sports roads edition, where we go over the most sensational sporting roads of the week. Oh my god, did you see that? He wanted that right between the posts. 2021 is bringing you newer shows with the same old scandals unless we get raided by the FBI again.Dan Ilic  24:25  Now let me call my call to see if we can get him up. Here we go.Unknown Speaker  24:28  Please leave a detailed message after the time. I'm sick. Michael West. Typical.Dan Ilic  24:33  Well, due to technical difficulties, we don't have Michael West, but it was gonna be an interesting conversation. I'm sure.Chris Taylor  24:39  I mean, this is typical. This is this is Murdoch through and through where Murdoch just understands what he's about to be discussed on a very prominent award winning Australian podcast. And I wouldn't be surprised to be said West kidnapped, certainly muzzled. I'd like to look into this if only Michael West was here to look into it. To get to the bottom of this but it's very very suspiciousDan Ilic  25:01  Dan in mind if you could, please could you please be Michael West while I asked you some questions about rupert murdochImaan Frank Hadchiti  25:09  hang on let me just get some talcum powder first hang onDan Ilic  25:14  all right a man just how screwed is the Murdoch business in Australia?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  25:18  Well I mean it's it's it is the screw that is screwing us it is not screwed I think it's um I don't know what does Michael with sound like who is this? Can I just add that this is the biggest fear that I've had is the fact that this is the best comedy Australia's got to offer aDan Ilic  25:41  big thank you to Alice fries a man Frank Chetty and Chris Taylor and I guess Michael west to many cold but he didn't click the link. That's okay. Thanks very much, guys. Now do you guys have anything to plug? Man? You wanna plug anything got shows coming up?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  25:56  Yes, I'm gonna be doing a cheeky cabaret up in Brunswick heads in Brunswick Picturehouse. 12th on the 14th of December. So come check me in my tiny black keys. And I wasDan Ilic  26:07  Friday. You got anything to plug?Alice Fraser  26:09  Yes, indeed. This is coming out on the 27th of November which means tonight if you're in Sydney, I am at the Comedy Store doing an hour of comedy. And also I have a daily satirical news podcast set in an alternate dimension and it's called the last post and it's extremely silly.Dan Ilic  26:24  Does Michael West call you back on in that alternative dimension?Alice Fraser  26:30  No, he's been eaten by the octopus people of New Zealand.Dan Ilic  26:34  Agree Salah What have you got to plugChris Taylor  26:37  I've just started a new podcast with Michael west where we just sort of spend an hour just talking about why we don't want to talk to daily lives ever again. You can catch that on wherever you get your podcasts good.Dan Ilic  26:49  Big thanks to rode mics the birth of foundation go neutral Patreon supporters Jacob round on the Kevin yankeetown line words you may have heard you've come from Maddie Palmer Diablos den James Colley, as well as many tidbits from our discord community. forces you may have heard from this episode include Wendy Harmer, Ben McKenzie bros a avadh. Gabby bot Robin McGregor and Rupa de gas Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Good night.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral This week we rip into Pete Evans. Why not? Everyone else is. We as whether or not we should let dead mummies lie. We cheer on SA as they go into their 6 day hard lockdown. And we mock the SA government for trying to implement a tax on electric cars.Fearmongers this week:Zach Ruane (Aunty Donna's Big Ole House of Fun)Virginia Gay (All Saints Big Ol Hospital of Fiction)Dan Ilic (The Ronnie Johns Half Hour of Nonsense)Lewis Hobba (Hungry Beast)and Noah Schultz-Byard (SA Director of The Australia Institue) ____________________Transcript below from Otter.Ai.Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birther foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Welcome to the podcast in case you're streaming us you will you'll know that Louis is face can't be seen because one he is a dentist and he's got a terrible laptop. If you want Louis to be able to be seen on streams in the future, please become our Patreon supporter. Just like Brett Murphy has Alex felony offski Vicki hassles, journalists Marty smiley Louis this month this week is become a supporter of us on Patreon.Lewis Hobba  0:28  Actually, I spent the weekend with Marty and he told me that and I was like that is so kind. But I think he also owes me because my niece Molly once had sex and my dad was away. And so he does, he does so much more money than he could ever give us on Patreon. Well, he'sDan Ilic  0:44  showing you $3 a month right now, which says a lot about body smiley for black. Yeah. And also Louis, we got a superfan who's giving us an embarrassing amount of money. David O'Connor is a school friend of mine. And probably you know those people who are like the most likely to succeed. When you're in high school. He is that guy and he has gone beyond our expectations and succeeded. So he's giving us a few hundred dollars a month which is incredible. Another way to support irrational fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with the go neutral sticker for every new $90 go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the average yearly emissions from a car and five bucks that comes to us. I'm recording my end of a rational fee on gadigal land in the urination. sovereignty was never seated, waited a treaty. Let's start the shot.Unknown Speaker  1:31  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambro COMM And section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:44  Tonight at the 26 minute long News Corp AGM rupert murdoch said he's not a climate denier. He's just number one with climate deniers. And thanks to COVID-19 Adelaide enters six days of staying at home and doing nothing also known as Adelaide and Australia is set to open all state and territory borders by Christmas except CWA that ruined our holiday plans to Perth exclaimed no one is the 20th of November 2020. And many smart people are saying that we are gonna beat sizzle Tam at the Australian podcast level. So best comedy. This is irrational fear. Hello and welcome to irrational fear the show that holds your hand through the spookiest stories of the week on your host, former chairman of crown casino Dan Ilic. Joining me on the podcast this week, the mongers of fear. And let me tell you first up, he's the only guy left or Triple J who hasn't managed to go behind his boss's back to secure a deal with a commercial radio station. It's Louis harbor.Lewis Hobba  2:55  Begging for a den one day I'll get that you can pick it up.Dan Ilic  2:59  And she's a writer, performer, actor, musician and racconta it's the old star of all saints Virginia gay. Howdy, Dan. We have we're great. And our next guest Well, let's put it this way. It's been a quiet like nothing career defining or genre defying or nothing really in the realm of international acclaim has taken up his time and attention and as a result has had plenty of time to read the news and be a guest on every single comedy podcast from Australia. He's one third of the way up until this week that little known Australia sketch comedy group. Auntie Donna, Zack Ryan. Hello,Zach Ruane  3:33  hello. Thank you so much. I haven't had much time to read the news. But I think in the great tradition of white men through history, I'm just gonna have opinions without being informed. I'm just gonna go for him. Just you'll hear him I'll have himVirginia Gay  3:48  in the great tradition of white women.Unknown Speaker  3:52  Hilarious.Dan Ilic  3:58  Coming up in the podcast we're gonna be talking to two southies one the pizza guy comm security guard who is patient zero in the state's latest outbreak and we're gonna be talking about how the South Australian government is trying to implement attacks on electric cars which could see terrible policy make its way throughout the country just like other baddest South Australia incidents like dance chance and romance. But first here is this week's sponsor.Unknown Speaker  4:23  This week on SNS Australia, Nick Cummins is issued with his toughest challenge. Yes, they call you the honey badger right?Unknown Speaker  4:31  The pipe shed in the woods.Unknown Speaker  4:33  Do you want to win SS Australia? Oh man I want to win like a Dingo wants a baby. So when sh Australia all you have to do is indiscriminately destroy 39 innocent people are metaphorical your mind because anytime I go to the pub on ladies noUnknown Speaker  4:48  I'm like a bull in a china shop. IUnknown Speaker  4:50  just absolutely destroy murder them just like the real Australian. So yes.Lewis Hobba  4:56  Oh, holy Dooley. Hold your horses.Unknown Speaker  4:58  That's good practice. Hold your horses. ThenUnknown Speaker  5:02  go go go go feel everyUnknown Speaker  5:04  dog sleeping adventure and indiscriminate murders on this week's episode of sa Yes, Australia yet won't be seen on seven because the AFP would rate us and put us in jail.Unknown Speaker  5:15  ChapelleDan Ilic  5:18  can't wait to say that one. All right, let's get stuck into their fears. This week's first fear we all know Pete Evans has been canceled once popular conspiracy theories shift. The same guy who activated armands has been dropped by his publisher and book chains for activating right wing conspiracy theorists with a Nazi black son car turn on Facebook. Now to be fair, he's also at COVID conspiracy theorist which has killed almost 1.5 million people in six months. And he's even been dropped by channel 10. I'm a celebrity Get me out of here because the producers couldn't find conditions that were more extreme than having It's been eight weeks isolated with Pete Evans. His products have also been dropped from Coles and while we're so fear mongers it is safe to say you can't get canceled in Australia unless you're a white guy who wants to promote the Nazis. Well, what do you say Zach? Is? Is has it? Why is it taken this long to cancel? paid adverts? Oh, myZach Ruane  6:09  goodness gracious me. I think there's an element with him where he's just such a big goof. He's been a goofus long. just gone. He started to go. Oh, Kate.Lewis Hobba  6:24  If he led with narcissism, he would have been like, I don't like oh my God, this guy's a Nazi. Because he led with sort of cheeky things like I'm gonna stare at the sun and tell people it's healthy. You like about Tommy it's an autism. You like well, he aged to seen, you know, it's like, it's not like, it's not like, it's not like throwing a it's like a stepping into a hot bath. It's like putting a frog into a pot and slowly turning up the hate.Virginia Gay  6:47  Yeah. Which would be delicious. In one of his recipes.Dan Ilic  6:52  Louis, I remember talking with you about bass in 2012. There in the very first time, the whole, you know, Twitter had a bit of a meltdown about paid Evans, which is when he was activating armands on his day on a plate column. Or why do you think do you do you? Could you imagine like back in 2012. When we were talking about this, we'd still be talking about it in the year 2020.Unknown Speaker  7:11  I mean,Lewis Hobba  7:12  I guess I'm kind of surprised that, that Pete Evans has lost that as long as he has. He is I mean, they were. He's such he's pretty bad talent. Like, have you ever watched him on television? He's not very good. But he's not a very good presenter. And he's such a bad chef, that he actually got beaten by a contestant on his own show. So he's neither a good chef nor a good presenter, nor a non Nazi. I guess that's, that's a zero from three for me.Virginia Gay  7:42  Isn't it also true that like, if you're astonished that you're still talking about Pete Evans, and you were first talking about him in 2012? Does that make him our Trump? Because Are we still astonished that we're talking about Trump? Like, he was just a punch line in 2015? Right? Who's the punch line? In fact, home alone to eat in the city or whatever? Oh,Dan Ilic  8:04  are you implying that Paige Evans is going to become Prime Minister of Australia sometimes? God?Unknown Speaker  8:13  Jesus Christ,Dan Ilic  8:13  He is very, He's very handsome. He's got those sparkly eyes. He does like to surf.Virginia Gay  8:18  nice smile lines. Have you seen as everybody's seen that the video of him saying,Unknown Speaker  8:24  You know what,Virginia Gay  8:25  I didn't even I had to look up the phrase neo nazi, I would say, mate, does what it says on the tin. But I also am obsessed with the fact that he's standing next to that horse and that horse is like, stop at my stop.Unknown Speaker  8:39  I said, Shut up.Virginia Gay  8:41  That horses is press agent. And even that horse can't keep him in line. Here it is.Unknown Speaker  8:48  Well, just wait until 2020 anymore because the mainstream media have come out and labeled me a racist and a neo nazi effect that I had to actually Google a neo nazi man is pretty telling. So I would just want to tell you this once and one time early. It is completely untrue. unfactual and a load of garbage here. I could actually say a few more words, but anybody that knows me knows I stand for long term, sustainable health for all humanity. I don't think there's anything else I need to say except please. Oh myDan Ilic  9:25  god, you're right, Virginia. That horse was really trying to shut him the hell up.Virginia Gay  9:30  That a horse is a channel seven publishers going we had one chance.Unknown Speaker  9:39  They'll pretty much takeZach Ruane  9:40  anyone on I'm a celebrity. Get me out of here. It's sort of like they'll they'll take some great celebrities. I've had friends on that show, but they'll also just go are you at your lowest point?Unknown Speaker  9:51  Yes. Come on board.Unknown Speaker  9:55  Come on.Zach Ruane  9:56  Get on the show.Virginia Gay  9:58  Do delicious. just pile of cockroaches. What is the price that you would need on the table to do that shows that?Unknown Speaker  10:07  Oh, yeah.Unknown Speaker  10:10  Oh,Lewis Hobba  10:11  I mean, keep in mind that a worldwide Netflix deal? Yeah.Unknown Speaker  10:15  Right, Louis.Lewis Hobba  10:18  I'll do a free MacBook Pro.Unknown Speaker  10:23  For a webcam.Zach Ruane  10:28  There's something really when you're working when you're working Australian artists, that whole show the whole idea of I'm a celebrity Get me out of here is it's about bringing people down. It's like, these big coastal elites, again, ate some cockroaches, and we're gonna have a little laugh at them. But when it's just working Australian artists, it's just like, Oh, look, look what desperation and a bad in this, like a badly funded industry will do to people. It's very sad and hard to watch. ButDan Ilic  10:58  it's not even like that I needed to Kobe used to be the boss of the show that the boss of the company that makes that show, and she asked me when I was first going, she's like, would you go on that show? And I was like, actually, because I would say like, it'd be like eight weeks of solid pay and solid work. And of course you don't. And if anything like I mean Joel crazy was in the first ever season and it kind of helped him with his career totally blew up his career. Now he's become a household name. Yeah. Well, yeah, you do.Lewis Hobba  11:31  I think the way that the people who cost it, this is like, actual words from costing people say that they try to get good people on the way up and bad people on the way down. So it's like,Unknown Speaker  11:46  oh, that'sDan Ilic  11:47  amazing. So when I was asked five years ago, I might have been a good person going up, but now I'm definitely a bad guy.Lewis Hobba  11:54  Yeah, you weren't. You're crazy now you're Chappelle. Is it?Zach Ruane  11:58  Is there anything in this Pete Evans story, when when when I hear that, like Twitter blew up in 2012, about the activated almonds? Is there anything in this story about maybe we need to stop blowing up about activated almonds?Dan Ilic  12:15  People who are pure about their food are also pure about their bloodlines. So we got to be very careful about who is pure about what things we got to be very careful about that.Unknown Speaker  12:25  You're listeningUnknown Speaker  12:26  to a rational fear,Unknown Speaker  12:29  I can very easily disappear. You know, some people would like me to disappear and I doubt and I'll just make this one statement. If I disappear or I have a frickin weird accident, it wasn't an accident. Okay.Dan Ilic  12:41  This way second fear. Archaeologists in Egypt have an earth more than 100 A delicately painted wooden coffins, some with mummies inside and 40 funeral statues in the ancient burial ground of Saqqara, Virginia is everything okay? With this story, you find this?Virginia Gay  12:58  I am so thrilled about this story. Because what's so great about it is it's just so great to take a break from the inescapable dread of COVID and the inescapable dread of like Trump maybe barricaded himself in the White House and just really focus on the inescapable dread of awakening and ancient curse. And I just think in times like these, a change is as good as a holiday. I for one, welcome our new mommy overlords. I cannot wait to have the Scarab beetles up under my skin, I will be excited to class the jewel that then turns my hand to dust.Dan Ilic  13:31  What a thrill the sealed wooden coffin some containing mummies date far back as 2500 G's are in perfect condition of preservation, and are fine quality coffins meant as they were probably the final resting place of the wealthiest citizens official said Well, clearly, the final resting place is not going to be there. It's going to be the British Museum or somewhere else.Lewis Hobba  13:53  Yeah, it's the wealthy citizens that mean it's sort of their equivalent of paid Evans.Dan Ilic  13:59  Yeah. Oh, Jeff Bezos, like it's one of those things. Yeah.Lewis Hobba  14:03  I think it's just gold covered. Um,Dan Ilic  14:05  and I think you're right, Virginia. I think you know, it is time to kind of disrupt the horror show we're living in in 2020. And it's good to have some I mean, I've watched the documentary it's goodVirginia Gay  14:14  to have an actual literal horror show. Yes.Dan Ilic  14:18  Exactly. Why, why deal in figuratively terms? Yeah, I watched a documentary The other day called The Mummy Returns. And it was it was very insightful. I'm looking forward. I'mZach Ruane  14:28  also really, really curious how quickly how quickly corporations are gonna get on board with the mummy curse, like they're on their own no contact delivery within like, get a pizza for you and a garlic bread for the ancient mommy in your basement.Lewis Hobba  14:51  I saw that. There's a new Netflix documentary all about this the opening of this term. And have you guys seen this? Oh, yes. Yeah. I am. wondered if it was the biggest thing to be on Netflix this week's act?Zach Ruane  15:04  No, no, no, actually, I think you will find it the crown.Virginia Gay  15:11  The Queen's gambit is also very good.Zach Ruane  15:13  Yeah, absolutely. When we when we were like setting up like, we had an announced date and a release date, and then they emailed us a few, like maybe a month ago, two months ago, and they're like, oh, we're gonna move the date forward. And I was like, Why? Why? Why? Like, look, it's a complicated thing. It's about other shows. And I just Google and my other currencies and just want to get like, some time before everyone's like, Diane.Dan Ilic  15:42  I've got a question about your shows that I could in the Yeah, I don't think it's too weird to talk about how you had this episode called the claim. Did you guys build that episode? Because you knew the crown was coming back?Zach Ruane  15:53  No, like, nice. It's so funny because it comes off as a let loose live and they used to talk about the dancing show exactly.Dan Ilic  16:03  Like the only people The only people that remember let loose live are comedians who are who would jealous of anyone who gets a TV show on Fox?Zach Ruane  16:16  Do you know what strategies This is the second job I brought up, let loose live on my promo to get slightly less slightly less. ReferencesDan Ilic  16:25  less live the show that debuted in 2005. It was hosted by Dave O'Neill. It lasted two episodes, it had great people. And unlike Kate McLennan, and Sammy j, and a whole bunch of really old comedians who totally fucked it up. They wanted to create like an SNL for CHANNEL SEVEN. And they had they had these great young talent who were doing good work. And then they had these old talent who were just rolling television, in front of everybody's eyes and in ruining everybody else's chances for making something good in the future. Thankfully, you know that the ronnie Jones half hour came out not long after that, he fixed itZach Ruane  16:59  and saved it all not well. So it seems like synergy. But if you can, if you go back, if you watch our live shows, and listen to our podcast, both broden and I are obsessed with the crown like I've been obsessed with not just the crown I love the queen is one of my favorite movies. And the audience is one of my favorite plays. So Peter Morgan, he just done a lot of stuff about the queen and I'm obsessed with it. And in a very serious like, why, but for some reason, just if something's in your mind long enough, it becomes the comedy. It just sneaks into the company, even if you don't find it funny. So I think we just made a lot of crown references, and then quite by coincidence, it came out a week at the same way.Dan Ilic  17:41  While we're just talking about your show, which is why you're here to talk about your show sometimes. I can I just say one of the things I absolutely love about the anti donut show on Netflix is how you've relentlessly put in Australian references and haven't bothered to Americanize them all. And all I could think of was these, this audience is going to be so curious about what four and 20 pies are. What these other references are like, looking thank god they did that because it's such an tion of the of the of the artists.Zach Ruane  18:14  Yeah, thank you for mentioning that. I think I keep thinking about it. It's like domain. I think the main thing was it maybe it was subconscious. But we were just like, Netflix are gonna make us go international. They're gonna go change the brands. So like, let's go as hard as humanly possible on the Australian references. Let's just like go really really hard so they miss a few. And that will get out big, long writable thing of lists. And unfortunately, the digest didn't realize kasidy Ringwood was a real Australian references like regional like theseDan Ilic  18:49  references.Zach Ruane  18:50  Yeah. And then it turns out when you've got like an $8 billion budget and you're and you're making like the crown for 100 million dollars, the little weeds get show in the corner. They just don't give you notes. So they're going after like Saudi Arabia with a foreign 20 reference.Dan Ilic  19:12  Speaking of regional Australia, South Australia is back in lockdown, which has caused me panic once again. Toilet paper is off the shelves but more to the point. Bottom shops were hit hard this week. The port Pirie bottle shop owner said told the ABC News that yesterday that is Wednesday when we're recording. They usually make $3,000 on a Wednesday, but so far they've taken $35,000 Yeah. And it's not if it's ago adalet Yes, I call them today just to see if they want to wrap for a chat. It turns out they're actually dead today. Because the reason the reason why that was so busy yesterday is because the government hasn't clarified at that point which is bottle shops are allowed to stay open but once the government's like yeah bottle shops can stay oh but nothing no backup other shops like that. Thankfully the South Australian police have issued some reasons to leave home the Finally I think, you know, we've all heard that government clear government rules is really important in times of stress like this. I don't know if you've seen this let me see if I can show you here the reasons to leave home over here. I don't if you can read this, but it's on the list of reasons to leave home which include visiting a petrol station pharmacy and post office shop. There's also one called home commonly known as bottleshop. This is the official This is the official South Australian police information. I love that. So why South Australia back in lockdown again. Well, a cluster of 17 new cases has been tied to a frontline worker for a quarantine hotel security guard took COVID-19 to his second job at a pizza shop. Now fear mongers It seems to me that we should be probably paying our frontline workers a little bit more said that they don't have to have a second job at this time. Is that toVirginia Gay  20:59  slow down what you're crazy? What what? Like actual pay that allows them to live when they are literally protecting us?Unknown Speaker  21:09  something somethingDan Ilic  21:10  something more than minimum wage, perhapsVirginia Gay  21:13  something that doesn't force them to compromise their security and the security of the rest of the stateUnknown Speaker  21:18  whatDan Ilic  21:19  crazy slash nationUnknown Speaker  21:22  nation?Zach Ruane  21:23  It's it's one of those things, isn't it? Like there's been so many things that are like new there are so many things that are that I never thought I'd see or hear that have happened this year. I think my dad my 63 year old dad talking about the casualization of the workforce as a key issue. Probably the man that turns every brand into a plural and he's like, Alright, goodnight. I need to work on these casualizationUnknown Speaker  21:51  thenUnknown Speaker  21:54  you told me to shut up.Lewis Hobba  21:56  You got to unionize the gig economy.Virginia Gay  22:00  Uber rise at night What can you tell me a little more about turning every brand into a plural?Unknown Speaker  22:06  Yeah, what is theZach Ruane  22:08  open is do they you know they don't go to Meijer they go to Myers and I gotta say fight I gotta say flies. Like every moment that happens in your life. I've got friends now. You know, I'm only 30 but I've got friends that I like I would go to Safeway so I'm like get done contribute to the world anymore.Dan Ilic  22:27  But Zack when when your friends start talking brands in plurals you know they're probably got a bunch of investment property so you can hit them up for a line.Unknown Speaker  22:35  Exactly becauseZach Ruane  22:37  I reckon it's I like looking at the way the world is going. It's only up for investment property.Lewis Hobba  22:45  The Adelaide lockdown has been interesting to see just in terms of the the coverage because it's so different to Melbourne lockdowns and obviously, it's still, it's still very new. But it's, it reminds me of I'm the youngest sibling, in my family. And my eldest sibling in my family, my sister is always talking about how she had to do the hardship. Just like mom and dad used to. They had tough rules for me. I couldn't go out it like and then you come along the third person to go through the things and no one cares. You can do whatever you want. Like the coverage of Adelaide is just been like, oh, they're going into lockdown. Now seems like the right thing to do. Like two months ago, it was dictated Dan is like abusing his people you like this is it's the same thing. You've just seen it before.Virginia Gay  23:40  And you smell a stain. how incredibly successful it is. No, no, not stays. Everybody. Well done. melva TribbleDan Ilic  23:46  doughnuts coming soon. mezcal musings on YouTube, right? No, Ben is one big investment property. Ain't that the truth? Well, I spoke to the security guards slice pizza shop worker in question a little earlier on today. Well, we've got patient zero in Adelaide on the line. JOHN from COVID brothers pizza. Thanks for joining us, john. Of course, not your real name. No, it'sUnknown Speaker  24:07  Jonathan Marshall and is reserved for my premium.Dan Ilic  24:11  So Jonathan, working security in a covered hotel and making pizza that is a hell of a juggling act right there.Unknown Speaker  24:17  Well, because I was an artist.Dan Ilic  24:19  Did you ever consider retrainingUnknown Speaker  24:21  beyond Coronavirus? There's not many good sectors in SI besides daycare, and frankly, that wasn't an option because history shows that comedians really can't be trusted around vulnerable sleepy people with foggy memories.Dan Ilic  24:33  So how did pizza enter the picture? Well, myUnknown Speaker  24:35  last word cleanse hope staff meetings after hours and titles and pizza. Sorry, I find the union hotline. They sort of have a huge problem because there's soUnknown Speaker  24:43  you joined the union.Unknown Speaker  24:44  I started making pizza and head of the Union combined with Gary gallon, that stuff when it's pretty big. Right? AndDan Ilic  24:52  is this why you started working security at a covid hotel?Unknown Speaker  24:56  Yeah, I mean, staff meetings on zoom have really smashed my bottom line. The content that I'm working with in a pandemic, on like pages and quarantine is terrible. I still miss making pages to people. It's vertical integration.Dan Ilic  25:09  I think that's actually horizontal integration.Unknown Speaker  25:15  horizontal integration if you know too manyDan Ilic  25:17  people worried about getting COVID on their pizza,Unknown Speaker  25:20  man, it's not the weirdest thing on these put on their faces. Yeah. I mean, if anything, I run the perfect business. I deliver pizzas for businesses under paying their staff painlessly and without complaining that I don't earn enough in my COVID job, but I have to learn like making pizzas. Actually,Dan Ilic  25:45  I don't think you can include the word life in a pizza business linked to a COVID outbreak.Thank you. That was great. Adelaide comedian john Brooks. They're staying in South Australia now. They forced us to drink Cooper's for years now. South Australia is about to export its worst thing since Cory Bernardi. It's a new tax on electric cars. Yeah, the SI Treasurer Rob Lucas reckons it's a done deal. And to him, it makes sense to put a tax on cars that don't pollute. What do you expect from a state that calls itself South Australia that's actually further north than three other states. To talk to us through the dumbest tax ever. It's no assurance by a director of the strategy true for South Australia. Now, thanks for joining us on irrational fear. Hi, everybody, thanks for having me. Now, one who is trying to implement this tax and whyNoah Schultz-Byard  26:36  the state government in the budget that was just handed down last week announced in their hidden away just a couple of sentences, saying that they're thinking about looking at maybe next year, probably but we don't know what it's gonna look like yet. Implementing a special tax just for electric vehicles. We at the Australia Institute were harking back to the language of Tony Abbott and effectively calling it a great big new tax on not polluting. It's like you've got this great new technology that's coming along in Australia, we're not very good at buying them yet. We should get a lot better at buying them. If there's proper policies in place, a lot more of us would own them. We need more of them. So what does the government think we should do? We should slap a tax on it. It's a it's the opposite of what's needed as Bay Jafari at the electric vehicle Council says, you know, we have tobacco excise on cigarettes to try and you know, help people encourage them not to smoke. This is like someone giving up cigarettes, and then you're slapping with attacked, because they're not paying the tobacco excise anymore. It's craziness. We think it shouldn't go ahead. We're hoping I won't go ahead. We'll see what happens.Dan Ilic  27:50  Yeah, I happen to how does it How does it even get this far? Like how does a tax it's so dumb, get this get like, get to the treasurer's desk and get to the point where the chairs like, yeah, I think we're gonna do this dumb thing.Noah Schultz-Byard  28:03  It's a bit of a mystery. It's really counterintuitive, but a couple of the states have been talking about going down this road. Over the years. It's really counterintuitive. I say, because South Australia, along with other states have recently been announcing some pretty good electric vehicle policy. So just two weeks ago, I think it was the state government announced that they were going to roll out hundreds of rapid charges across the state. So we can have a network of electric vehicle fast charges that are also going to convert the entire government fleet to electric cars over the next 10 years. So you know, you are doing this good stuff on one hand, and then he comes budget time and PAL sneaky surprise, electric vehicle tax comes out of nowhere.Dan Ilic  28:49  So but how did that how does this tax, get it get to the Treasury tax? Like how does it even you know, where did the idea come from?Noah Schultz-Byard  28:56  So a few different. It's generally discussed in policy circles. There's one organization called infrastructure partnerships, Australia that has been pushing the idea for a while and in, in a lot of policy and tax conversations, this sort of thing comes up. It's there is actually an argument to be made for a road user charge, which is what this what they're calling this, but I mean, this is getting probably a little bit geeky, but do it. There's a whole bunch of things that go towards raising revenue. So that's car red Joe, luxury car tax, that's the fuel excise that's paid for petrol, compulsory in a whole bunch of things get you know that we pay to have cars and use the road. You could get rid of all of those things and charge people for using the road how much they use it each year, what time of day they use it. They use it when it's really busy charging more if you go into like a super busy city where it's really expensive to build the infrastructure to make that work and there's low competition to use them. Structure charge the more for that and charge everybody, you know petrol cars and electric cars across the same way if that's one way that you want to get rid of all these old taxes and charge something new or unfair? Sure, well, that's a conversation we can have. But just coming along and saying, we're gonna have an extra special new tax that will just pop on electric vehicles, you know, in Australia, point 2% of cars, or electric vehicles, and I feel like attacks on that is like putting a tax on trying to save an endangered species. You know, like, weUnknown Speaker  30:29  want more of these things.Noah Schultz-Byard  30:31  It's like going out and finding a baby club. So you and your saver, gonna pay five bucks to the government. It just doesn't make any sense.Unknown Speaker  30:37  Yeah.Dan Ilic  30:38  Which is why I burn a koala awake, just you know, just in case. Yeah,Lewis Hobba  30:44  it's so weird that this is happening in all places of South Australia, a place that is essentially owes its electricity grid to Tesla. Like it just as a giant Tesla battery. There is a man who is the biggest like one of the biggest manufacturers of electric cars, essentially in control of their power grid. And they're going, oh, let's piss off a long. Thank you. We'll go back to blackouts. he'll pull you back in blackout town satellite.Zach Ruane  31:12  Admittedly, also, it is the state that it took a crazy man on Twitter to convince them to try that. battery and they're like, all right.Unknown Speaker  31:26  What can go wrong? You don't getNoah Schultz-Byard  31:29  exactly what is glad he was willing to come here. You know, a very cool visit of South Australia will take him.Lewis Hobba  31:36  Brooks doing just getting to do another tweet that seems to beNoah Schultz-Byard  31:41  just sorted out like that. It's tough. You know, you're tweeting because solve the world's problems. I will be there in the next couple of years, I reckon on each one of us.Dan Ilic  31:48  Should I be worried about this? No, I should be worried. Should I go down to my mechanic and ask them how to convert my Tesla series three into a petrol car?Noah Schultz-Byard  31:57  We hope not. So in South Australia, the labour opposition, the greens opposition and some of the crossbenchers have already said, Well, well, this is a crazy idea and we don't support it. So this idea looks effectively dead on arrival, it can't pass the parliament with that amount of opposition. So things look good in South Australia, the big risk is if other states also start seeing this and thinking, you know, hello, hello, could get a bit of revenue out of this and start trying to implement something themselves, we hope, you know, there's been a very strong, reasonable negative reaction to this idea in sa hopefully that will discourage other jurisdictions from going down the same path?Dan Ilic  32:37  No, is it really a revenue question? Because as you say, the revenue is so minuscule, or is it something else?Noah Schultz-Byard  32:42  So in the budget papers, there's normally a lot of detail for how these policies are going to work and how much they'll make and how much it costs to implement them. There was none of that there was just a couple of sentences saying, Yeah, we might have a crack at this, we don't know exactly what it's gonna look like, or how it's gonna work. But there was a line in the papers that said, do go on, there was this secret little line in this field section of the budget, you know, you open the plastic to get to the triple X ray for separate information at the boat,Lewis Hobba  33:11  we're across.Noah Schultz-Byard  33:16  Work with fantasy for this is my nerd, you know, going deep into the data fantasy. So the secret shame in the budget document said, you know, there are so few electric vehicles on the road as it is. And over the next four years, there's probably not going to be many more anyway. So it's gonna raise stuff or money, even as it is less than a million dollars a year. So there's a tacit recognition in there, that there's not going to be an increase taken on electric vehicles, it's not going to raise much money, it's going to suppress the uptake of electric vehicles. So you know, why are we even doing it? It's hard to know.Virginia Gay  33:52  Because Lex Luthor has gotten some sort of information about electric vehicles like this is full supervillain stuff, but in a deeply data sealed section kind of way.Lewis Hobba  34:05  Yeah, I like the idea of a data filter. It makes you feel like the Delhi doctor is routing policy.Noah Schultz-Byard  34:12  Are you taking the quiz? It turns out if you're into budget paper three, you're your nerd on the nerd quiz.Dan Ilic  34:18  Noah, Rob Lucas, this set SS Treasurer said that another state is looking at it. Do you know what state is looking atNoah Schultz-Byard  34:25  it? New South Wales have said in the last week that they're potentially looking at it and a bit over a year ago, I think it was the Victorian Government said that they would be you know, willing to take a look at it. So like I said, it's definitely an idea that's knocking around people. People want to look at it. There's just there's so much better ways you could potentially go around about it rather than just slapping a blunt instrument of this tax just on electric vehicles. So we hope at least in this, the form that it's been semi announced in South Australia isn't what people decide to doDan Ilic  35:00  well no, thank you so much for being part of irrational fear tonight and I noticed you're ready for lockdown in the back of your screen. It's very clear. Look at all those board games ready to go. You've got like 15,000 board gamesNoah Schultz-Byard  35:14  one day into lockdown. I've played almost all of them the liquor cabinet is dry,burning everythingUnknown Speaker  35:22  to keep me going Excellent. WellDan Ilic  35:24  that's it for irrational vision. I big thank you to all our all of our guests. Noah shows by Zachary Ruane of Virginia gay Louis harbor. If you got anything to plug Zach, is there anything you want to kind of get out there into the world to let people know about?Zach Ruane  35:37  I haven't seen any of the crowns season four yet. I'm very excited to say what he does with that shop. Also known as Big House of fun. I really should I've been a bit cheeky You know, I've just been promoting the crown. But I need my help me known as big ol House of fun on Netflix. Think if you're a boomer and you're listening, it's like the goodies if you're young, it's like South Park. I don't care. It's like everything you love, but we itDan Ilic  36:05  isn't like Studio 10 at all. I love Studio 10 Yeah, that's a bit like Studio 10. Virginia, do you have anything to plug?Virginia Gay  36:14  I've got theater shows that are coming out next year if theater exists next year, so wear your mask and make sure I can do them. Thank you very much,Dan Ilic  36:22  Louis. You got anything to plug? Uh, no,Lewis Hobba  36:25  not really save all I'm on the radio come and say hello.Unknown Speaker  36:28  No shows spired you're gonna think the plugNoah Schultz-Byard  36:31  the Australia Institute, ta ai.org.au. It's where we do all of our awesome research that will hopefully squash things like the electric vehicle tax. Go there. Read the research donate if you want to. It's a cracking website full of really nerdy stuff.Dan Ilic  36:45  Great. big thank you to rode mics the birth of foundation going into our Patreon supporters Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline big contributions this week from john Brooks Rupa de Gass, Kilian, David and Maddy Palmer, Dave blow sane, and some other great folks who hang out in our Discord. Now, before we leave you tonight, we've actually heard this in trouble in America. We haven't heard from Donald Trump in a few days. He's been very quiet. But I do have a leak tape which might tell us why.Unknown Speaker  37:16  It's me. President Trump still president just calling to say that I'm not coming in today. Okay. Um, Mr. President, certainly, sir. Are you feeling okay? I'm feeling great. I'm just feeling a little bit under the weather but I'm not coming in. I'm having a mental health day. Need some me time? And that's fine, sir. Hope you get better soon. We'll see you tomorrow. No, not gonna come in tomorrow either. I don't have to. You can't make me. I'm the president. I need more me time tomorrow to Okay. Yes, sir. Pardon my asking sir, but this hasn't got anything to do with you know, the other day what what the other day? What are you talking about? I played golf. Big deal. Great game. Tremendous game. I had the highest round ever. It was huge. Yes, sir. That and the young. The election. Yeah. And that well, I won the election. I wanted I then won some golf. No big deal. So much winning. I'm sick of winning. Sick of winning. I need a day off. All right. And I need another day off tomorrow. I need some me time. All right. All right, sir. So you didn't see the Joe Biden speech on TV sleepy Joe? sleepy Joe's speech on TV. I caught some of it horrible, horrible, worst concession speech ever believe me, sir. He didn't even mention that he lost Can you believe that? What a loser. a sore loser nasty loser. He's nasty. Nasty, so you won't accept defeat sir Sure. I accept his defeat Of course I do. You didn't want Oh, yes. I did. I alternatively one by a lot. Believe me. He fake What? Sir. People are saying you need to face reality, sir. Now you listen here. My reality is great. It's the best reality there is. Believe me. Everyone else's reality is wrong. That's everybody else's is wrong. All right. All right. Okay, sir. So you're calling in sick for today and tomorrow. And the day after that, too? Yeah. What three days? Three days now actually make it three months? A bit under the weather. A bit of me time. All right, more me time than Lincoln. Okay, I gotta go back to bed now. Oh, it's so early. Oh, 11am. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you, sir.Unknown Speaker  39:47  AskTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 IF YOU WANT TO SUPPORT THE PODCAST AND TAKE YOUR CAR CARBON NEUTRAL, WITH GONEUTRAL HERE: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral🗳️ VOTE FOR A RATIONAL FEAR AT THE AUSTRALIAN PODCAST AWARDS: https://australianpodcastawards.com/vote🎧 STAYING HUMAN PODCAST: https://anchor.fm/staying-human-pod🖋️ SIGN THE OUR ISLANDS, OUR HOME PETITION: http://ourislandsourhome.com.au/#signEach month on the A Rational Fear podcast feed we deliver long-form conversations with leaders in climate action from Australia and around the world. This is Episode 3 of Greatest Moral Podcast of Our Generation.This week we have two incredible voices.Yessie Mosby is part of the ‘Torres Strait 8', a group of Torres Strait islanders who are taking the Australian Government to the UN Human Rights Council for their lack of climate action. Which, as you can imagine if you live in the Torres Strait, is quite the existential problem. And I also chat with Sophie Marjanac, is the lawyer driving the complaint.This is a fascinating chat. If you're like me, and live in a major city in Australia, it's easy to be dismissive of sea-level rise as something that will effect other countries, other islands. Not our country.But for those in the Torres Strait sea-level rise is ALREADY putting an entire culture, an entire race under threat. It's fitting that this podcast's schedule serendipitously lines up with NAIDOC week.Big thanks also to my Bertha Fellow colleague, Linh Do, for covering the climate news up the top of the podcast with me. YOU CAN HELP — SIGN THE PETITIONYes, it's another petition! But this one will update you on the complaint, and events that are being organised to support the case. Like, December 14th, there will be an online “Town Hall” for supporters and the public to meet the Torres Strait 8. If you sign the petition, you'll be the first to be invited to sign up to the event. http://ourislandsourhome.com.au/#sign  TRANSCRIPT BY OTTER AI BELOW:Bertha Announcement  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.Yessie Mosby  0:04  Please help us we're here we need help. When we sit here in Ireland we sit, we sit as Australians. When we stand and we hold hands and we sing the national anthem, it states and we sing it with pride for let us all rejoice, advanced Australia fee and shouldn't that be recognised? Like we should be all you know, standing and supporting each other, being Australians. Dan Ilic  0:29  G'day, welcome to the Greatest Moral Podcast of Our Generation. Joining me is Linh Do Hello, Linh. Hey, Dan, how are you doing?I'm good. This is our third greatest moral podcast of our generation. We are making headway here. Last week's was or last month rather, was with Asha Gunzburg and Mike cannon Brookes, which I thought was pretty good. Actually. It was great.Linh Do  0:48  I had so much positive feedback. And I think so much disbelief that you and I could relay in such big talent.Dan Ilic  0:54  That's right. So Bill Gates, if you're out there, give us a call.Linh Do  0:58  We're ready. We're ready. Now,Dan Ilic  1:01  this is on the irrational fear feed. It happens once a month it is chats with climate leaders and the guests this month. Absolutely, undeniably, climate leaders, and you'll find out a little bit more about them just in a second. Before we do that, just want to thank our new Patreon supporters, Damian Payne and Philip both beads very nice of you. If you want to support a rational fear, and the greatest podcast of our generation, you need to go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear. Another way you can support irrational fears to offset the carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 sticker go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets, which is about the average yearly emissions for a car and five bucks of that comes to us and you get a little sticker get to put it on the back of your car gets a virtual signal to all those other fossil fuel burning machines out there.Linh Do  1:49  It's how everyone wants to be stuck in traffic behind a self righteous person. There's you know, carbon offsetting all of their emissions. That's right. Yeah,Dan Ilic  1:56  there's people behind you. Oh, God, no, that is better than me. Whatever. I'm recording my end of the greatest model podcast of our generation on the land of the gadigal. In urination, sovereignty was never stated, We need a treaty. Let's stop the shot. DespiteUnknown Speaker  2:11  global warming. A rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.Unknown Speaker  2:23  This is called Don't be fried. Here heat waves and drove greatest mass extinction. We're facing a manmade disaster,Unknown Speaker  2:32  podcast, climate criminals.Unknown Speaker  2:37  ration all of this with the global warming andUnknown Speaker  2:42  a lot of it's a hoax. Book, right? A small podcast about generation for short, all right, let'sDan Ilic  2:48  get let's get straight into the climate news for this month, Victoria is going to be home to the largest battery in the southern hemisphere. Hey, you're a Victorian How does that make you feel?Linh Do  2:59  Makes me feel great between COVID locked down one of the longest in Australia and you know, proof that sometimes bigger is better. I'm super excited to be home to the biggest battery. This isDan Ilic  3:09  great. This is like a classic pissing contest between Victoria and South Australia. This one is is also a Tesla battery. But it's going to be double the size of the South Australian veterinary.Linh Do  3:19  It's all about competition. Although I have to say it's a is it lagging behind? I thought they've got their new renewable hydrogen project that's going to come online sometime soon. So I guess maybe Victoria is going to get a new hydrogen project soon as well.Dan Ilic  3:32  Everyone should have a new hydrogen project. It's like what you do in 2021? Do you know Do you know anything more about that hydrogen project?Linh Do  3:38  No, no. Well, other than it's that interesting thing where hydrogen can be renewable. And sometimes it isn't renewable as well. So I think it's important to note that this one will be renewable. And that essays already sourcing half of its energy from wind or solar, which is pretty, pretty awesome.Dan Ilic  3:54  I saw this week that solar has made up 44% of electricity in the grid in Australia this week, which is pretty amazing.Linh Do  4:02  It is it's all of these numbers that I think we rarely get to hear about when you just listen to the climate news. It's all doom and gloom, and you're like, wait, Australia, all of these things are happening.Dan Ilic  4:12  Well, in speaking of doom and gloom, the USA is out of the Paris Climate accord as of this week, but don't fret, because Joe Biden, who is of course, as we know, is President Elect said last week today, the Trump administration official left the Paris Climate Agreement and in exactly 77 days, a Biden administration will rejoin it. Now the good easy healing is that it took two years for the USA to get out of the Paris Agreement, but it only is it's only gonna take about 30 days for them to get back in.Linh Do  4:41  So for exciting party in the USA party in the Paris Agreement, it's all the good news to come. But I think more importantly than just Biden. Getting back on board with the Paris Agreement is all the plans and initiatives he has in place a $2 trillion climate plan which seems really unthinkable in Australia and hopefully that means We'll start to pick up and not be left behindDan Ilic  5:02  nerd do anything that will get you $2 trillion is if you have a sportsground in a marginal electorate, and you need a women's change room.Linh Do  5:11  This is why there are so many football fields nearly I think that now have all of these like construction works happening I've noticed during COVIDDan Ilic  5:19  this is going to be hard for the democrats coming into this because of course, climate change previously used to be something in the near future, but it is happening right now climate effects are happening. So rapidly. Extreme weather is causing so much havoc across the world and the USA, so they're going to have to really work hard at trying to convince people to do the right thing here. One interesting, big power broker, john Podesta, who is a notorious lobbyist, himself running the Hillary Clinton campaigns, he is actually joining hands with the sunrise movement to try and get fossil fuel lobbyists out of the Biden Harris White House, which is incredible.Linh Do  6:01  There's nothing like the old establishment joining with the new establishment to actually forge the new way forward. I don't think any world really wants to see just john Podesta running things or just sunrise running things. So hopefully they'll forge a new future of what's politically possible. What is it ObamaDan Ilic  6:15  says? The arc of history bends towards justice, but but zigs and zags? Is that what he says?Linh Do  6:22  It's just really one big scribble.Unknown Speaker  6:23  Yeah, it depends. He'sUnknown Speaker  6:24  drawing.Dan Ilic  6:25  Let's just touch on this Lynn jar fits given his left the front bench of the Labour Party over climate change. Finally, Mr. Call himself member for hunter has said See you later. I am out of here. There's no way labour can win. If they take up a strong climate change position, which I don't necessarily think is true. I think he's going to be eating his words in about one year's time.Linh Do  6:49  Yeah, but there's nothing like getting out of the way. I think if you're gonna be a soak about things all the time and not a team player, just get out of the way for people who are ready to do the work. So we're all for it.Dan Ilic  6:58  It fits given notoriously on the right hand side of the Labour factions. He's been copying it not only from the left hand faction, but also the right faction. Some members of parliament on the right faction of labour called him the idiot from the hunter.Unknown Speaker  7:12  Hmm.Linh Do  7:14  So many people were saying goodbye, sir. In recent weeks with all these political announcements,Dan Ilic  7:20  now, the other big news using bullshit now Adani is changing their name. Indian energy giant Danny is changing the name from Adani to the bravest mining and resources company. According to Adani, bravest means brave in Latin, but according to Latin experts, it doesn't quite mean brave Lin.Linh Do  7:43  Exactly. It feels like no one at the Adani or bravest Corporation went to a private school where if you had one of those school blazers growing up, you would know that Fortis is what means brave and courageous. So even if you'd watched anything said in that sort of Roman Roman times, but it actually means krooked to formed some sort of mercenary, I've got a very aptDan Ilic  8:04  and a new professor said it means barbarians and Desperado or an assassin, although that is absolutely delightful that you have this coal company going in there trying to pretend to be noble, but in fact, what the reality is, is that they aren't and this isLinh Do  8:24  exactly it's sort of a rose by any other name. I guess a disastrous climate project by any other name still is just as disastrous. This harkens backDan Ilic  8:33  to the time when they paid change their name in 2001, to be honest, petroleum. And I think I think it was only like four years later, they were like, let's get rid of the beyond petroleum. We don't.Linh Do  8:44  But it was like a really good payoff stop for a while. And I think anytime very sort of name changes happen. I always have to pause and check myself. Is this someone powering the company? Or is this actually real news? Or is this fake news and can't believe it in this case with the Adani situation it Israel.Dan Ilic  9:01  And one last bit of good news, a young Queensland man, Mark mcbay has made his Superfund one of Australia's biggest take the risks of climate change seriously, he took rest super to court, basically, because they weren't transparent on how their investments were polluting the world. And now rest has kind of come to this agreement that that not only they will be net zero emissions, but also the investments they have in their Superfund will be net zero as well, which is pretty interesting.Linh Do  9:28  Yeah, it's great that the good news coming out of Queensland isn't just the State of Origin of results, but also something that hopefully will Bode really well for all of the other climate litigation claims out there in Australia, these lawyerDan Ilic  9:40  David bond and we've had on rational fear in the past. You may remember David Bandon from irrational fear when he was putting together class action with teenagers suing the government for their future. Now he's gone done this rest super case and coming up, he's got a case where he's taking to court the Commonwealth equities, basically saying that you No, you can't buy bonds in Australia, because Australian bonds are going to be worth nothing because climate catastrophes are going to wipe us out.Linh Do  10:07  Yep, yep. And I think it's, you know, it gets a little bit nitty gritty and in legalese and can feel a bit boring. But I think the precedent that they set is really important, not just for those climate litigation cases, but what every other Superfund in Australia now has to do, regardless if they claim to be ethical or otherwise, because no one wants to be taken to court by one of their members.Dan Ilic  10:27  You're absolutely right there. And I think this is a big win for David bond. And I think like he said, in the last year, he's had three big cases come to the front and setting precedents for all those things. I think there are really quiet people out there who are just chipping away with their own power to make things happen. And I think people like that are pretty extraordinary.Linh Do  10:46  Exactly. I think, if you will, Superfund hasn't yet divested from fossil fuels. Definitely. Now is the time to write them a quick letter and say, hey, look at what's happening with breast suepo. What are you going to do in response?Dan Ilic  10:57  pS, if you want to do an out of court settlement, My phone number isyou're listening to the greatest moral podcast about generation. So for today's good book, I speak with two people who are at the front of a legal and existential fight for climate action. Yes, he must be and Sophie marjanovic are taking the Australian Government to the United Nations over their willful neglect of human rights due to their lack of climate action. It's two interviews one after the other. Yes, he was on the phone from his home in mastic, which is also known as York Island. So it's a bit crackly and I caught Sophie first thing in the morning in London, so it's quickly for another reason. We both have a tide. Yes, he must be is an artist and craftsman who lives on massive Island, so called York Island. In the corner of the Torres Strait. Massive is a remote teardrop shaped coral cay island that is closer to Papua New Guinea than the Australian continent. It's a tropical paradise. It's home for Yes, his family and they can trace their history on that island for thousands and thousands of years. But this fragile place at the top of the Torres Strait is disappearing, the land is slowly being washed away by rising sea levels. And yes, he and his family, the land is everything. It's their culture, their religion, their library, their encyclopaedia, it's their town hall, it's where they've stored their stories of their family and their ancestors for over 60,000 years. And in the last couple of decades, they've been losing it bit by bit. So for YesI this fight is purely existential. And as Australians wave let him down, as well as being an award winning artist. Yes, he is also the power plant attendant of the island. And I had a chat with him a couple of weeks ago, as he was walking to the power plant to get the generator running. After a few minutes of small talk, I just leapt into the big questions.Can you remember the first time you ever heard of the idea of global warming or climate change?Yessie Mosby  13:08  Back in the days in the 90s? We didn't understand about it and none of the elders here in the village. Understand that. And back in the days, we were told, like Wait, wait, we stand on the beach, they would tell us like this needs to be the bush and the island needs to be right right out there is the beach. It's been taken away and eaten even in the 90s even in the 90s you'reDan Ilic  13:33  recognising that land was being taken away from you?Yessie Mosby  13:39  Yes, but not as not as now like when when I mean land has been taken away like a metre would be taken away in a year or so. And gradually it's been washed away. But now I'll give you an incident about April month last year. We've seen in just in that one day we seen three metres taken taken away just in in a matter of hours. Oh my god and we've seen we've seen our home washed away and we see no ancestral remains to be take like the sea was taking our ancestors remains out our genealogy online is has been washed away some we try to save some we could not save. Two years ago I was my wife line. My bloodline my wife's bloodline me and my case. We were running down on the beach and helping families to pick up my wife thing sixth generation My wife is and picked up a remains tried to save what what we called her but the second emendation took her oh myDan Ilic  14:43  gosh, that must have been pretty stressful. How are you feeling on that day? What what kind of thoughts were going through your your brain and your heart on that day?Yessie Mosby  14:53  Looking at that like looking like on that particular day? automatically like you it was it was Like, it's a must, you have to do it, and stuff like that. Otherwise, my children won't see, you know, their bloodline or their ancestors, practically, if it wasn't for her, they wouldn't be here today. It was like, a fight for trying to save it from Mother Nature. But Mother Nature, practically took us a night and took all of the remains. It's it's like a whitewash now out from our line each way, you know, where you could go and say, and identify a loved one and, and tell our children like this grant, great, great, great grandmother here. This is what she's for you. And you don't we don't have anything there now to go and say this, this is your grandmother, like she's not there anymore. It was tough in a way to explain to the kids because like, you know, no kid should be walking in picking up the ancestors remains, you know, they should walk on the beach with their family and pick up shells and stuff like that.Dan Ilic  15:58  I can't agree with you more.Unknown Speaker  15:58  Tell me aboutDan Ilic  16:01  growing up in the 90s. And how back to that moment, you're talking about how folks didn't quite understand what was happening. When did you you personally notice that things were changing in the environment around you,Yessie Mosby  16:12  personally, personally, it started here in 2000, when I moved back out, and I realised that when we had some scientists coming out, and they were predicting about, we most probably will be, will be have to be relocated, and stuff like that. That's when it got me thinking now and had my thinking caps on and said, Well, this is not like, you know, it could be stopped in a certain way. Yes, and that's what driven me to understand. And to go a bit deeper into understanding that what's happening now, there is, you know, there is something behind that, which is causing all of this. So it wasn't like through my through the 90s. And stuff like that we weren't so much educated in about in about climate change, and global warming. Yeah.Dan Ilic  17:04  So how did you learn? How did what were the things you did to kind of learn and how did you share that knowledge with others?Yessie Mosby  17:11  Well, we had a lady she used to work here, she became a good friend, and she's not a part of her life. She's a part of our clan, now part of our family and, and she helped us I really well, personally and asked, but I really need to know more, I want to know more. Because it was out of fear. I was fearing about my children and their children after them.Dan Ilic  17:33  What kind of role did she have? Was she a teacher? Or Was she a scientist, soYessie Mosby  17:38  she's a lawyer, a lawyer. And she used to work here in the tourist rate. And she looked and understand that we didn't understand being so remote out from mainland Australia and living so in such a remote area, she noticed that we knew what was happening. But we really didn't know what was the cause of what's so she started to give us a witness. When the scientists came out. Now, that's when my eyes opened and stuff like that. And the field struck me. What year was that? She was here like five years ago. But I really practically sat down with her to know and gain more knowledge about all of this see what's happening two years ago, right. And when she was here, she was here and witnessing right at the same time, because all the airlines had to be shut down. No planes could fly in and no planes could fly out. So they got stranded here. And while they were stranded here, they've seen exactly now what we face every monsoon season. Is that, Sophie maronick. That's, that's correct. Yes.Dan Ilic  18:45  So 2016, she came out to the Torres Strait to check it out and have a look around. And only a couple years ago, that's when really a major education kind of process was happening with people that live on the island. On the islands. It feels like all of a sudden, you've been hit with something that is unexpected, whereas a lot of other people around the country probably knew a lot more. It must be must feel really strange to learn something that a whole bunch of other people you knew about, and must feel rude that no one ever told you about it.Yessie Mosby  19:23  Yeah, we always asked people to come and invite like we've invited the government to come to come to our island to have a look for their eyes and look what we what we see every day the changes in the life life, how it's changed dramatically. The field which I still even still today have is we don't want to be refugees in our own country. We have a right to live in Australia should be a country which should be so proud that Australia is the only country in the world who has totally two different race of indigenous People who live on the country which has been over been here for over 60,000 years. Yeah, title and blues one is like an amputation within the Torres Strait people because what like when I was talking earlier in how the blood connections and how are we connected to the other neighbouring tribes, and stuff like that, and to lose an island within them probably next 30 to 50 years is devastating. And it's, it will affect people even more mentally, physically and spiritually mushy. The beautiful thing about my home, the aura around this island, it welcomes you, when you fly around my island and you come down to land. The island welcomes you before you even touch your foot on the island. And when you walk here, this whole island is sacred to us because our our ancestral remains is scattered right through this island. This island is not only an island, which provided us with shelter, protection and food and water. It's our library. It's our school. It's a maternity ward. Our grandparents got no gave birth on this island. We felt Well, our families on this island, our whole language, our genealogy, all I need is played and based upon this island. And not only the people living here on Laci, but also the families who, which was married out and blessed. other islands around the tourist illustrate who have blood connection back to this island. This island is love. This island is powerful. AndDan Ilic  21:49  it's it's sacred. It's at home. What kind of conversations are you having with your families and friends about climate change right now? Like what what do you talk about?Yessie Mosby  22:02  We always talk about every time when it comes to the full moon time when it comes to the peak of the king tides. We talk about a lot, especially when the Wind Rises and stuff like that. It's it concerns, it leaves great concerns to us. Yeah. And we always talk about like, how can we try and save what we have? And how can we try and preserve what we have now from further inundation and further erosion?Dan Ilic  22:31  How does it feel to know that your people are not necessarily responsible for climate change yet your people must be the first to immediately adapt and change yourselves and your culture. Because of it doesn'tYessie Mosby  22:48  make you angry. It makes us feel like you know, it makes us feel like little kids were like little kids where they you know, get they being neglected. They being child abuse. That's what we feel, right? We're feeling because we know contributors to what's happening now. But yet we are the first ones to get the pain. We're the first ones to get caught when we're suffering. Yeah.Dan Ilic  23:14  Does it feel lonely in that same respect?Yessie Mosby  23:17  It feels lonely in this respect here because when we cry out, we're not being heard. Yeah. We're trying our best and we're trying to go through every like we know the saying that like, you know, when one door is closed, there's many more will open. So we are running now and trying to open every single doors and seeking help. The funny thing is our forefathers, my both of my grandfathers. They joined the army to fight for the country, all of us and with our forefathers, our grandparents. They've all contributed so much to Australia to the government. And yet they were still fighting in the backyard and trying to get like you know, recognises they're like, like, please help us we're here we need help. When we sit here in Ireland, we sit we sit as indigenous Australians, we sit as Australians, when we stand and we hold hands and we sing the national anthem. It states and we sing it with pride for let us all rejoice advance Australia fee and shouldn't that be recognised? Like we should be all you know, standing and supporting each other? Being Australian YesI.Dan Ilic  24:37  I want to know about this un project. Tell me what are you doing about taking the Australian Government to task of climate action at the UN? How does that work?Yessie Mosby  24:47  First of all, we invited the Australian Government to come up to our home to to to to have a look in what we're facing. He refused our invitation which made us go For the further, like I was saying earlier thatDan Ilic  25:04  our voice is not being met with singing up for help, the only thing we want is to reduce all the ammunition, the thing for the mining and stuff like that, by reducing them, it'll give us a better chance to live longer here on our island. And this is why we're taking the next step to the UN, it must feel so unfair that a one group of Australians can profit off the missions that are going out. And yet, your home is literally being taken away from you because of it. And because of other people around the world. That just must feel so unfair. so unfair.Yessie Mosby  25:46  It's so unfair, it's just like we're running around screaming our heads off. And only only our only, like, you know, only we are hearing her own voice.Dan Ilic  25:56  Tell me more about the United Nations project. How did you develop this ideaYessie Mosby  26:01  really made us to go down this path because of the Paris Agreement. And we said like, if there's not gonna like things, if the government's not gonna respond to us and stuff like that, this is where we're gonna go. So we see elk. And the lady Sophie came up and said, she would love to help us and support us in this.Dan Ilic  26:22  Great and where are you now? what's what's the, what are the next steps with this project?Yessie Mosby  26:28  The next step now is if it's like a waiting game, but it's most probably gonna be next year, the COVID-19 is playing a very big part, which now is like, actually, like a waiting game.Dan Ilic  26:40  You don't have a lot of time to wait,Yessie Mosby  26:43  no. As as you're waiting, where, where we're looking at a home, getting eaten away? Have you met other people around the worldDan Ilic  26:52  who support your cause?Yessie Mosby  26:55  We we've met through like, zoom link up, and a lot of feedback we get from the petition of violence at home, we have big more like support which, which from our mother's mother country, Australia, and throughout the world, as well, to see that they are supporting us is like, you know, lift us up more?Dan Ilic  27:22  What are the young people who lives and work in the Torres Strait? How do they react to climate change? And what are their views about the future? Are they hopefulYessie Mosby  27:34  for them, like when we when when when I sit and talk to other other young youth here on machine, they look at the future, there's no sunshine at the end of the tunnel. They just living life, as we live life now and trying to save what we can. The great fear of their means. having their children living down on mainland Australia, who don't have the sacred connection back to country,Dan Ilic  28:03  the sort of that must make you feel incredibly disconnected,Yessie Mosby  28:07  big time, very, very much become disconnected. What we what we practice, in our traditional customary laws won't be the same if we're going to be trying to practice in our, you know, traditional culture somewhere else. It's going to be loss of connection to our country, to our culture, and our like likelihood,Dan Ilic  28:30  if worst comes to worst, and you have to move country. Do you think there is hope to rebuild culture?Yessie Mosby  28:36  I don't know. Being a cultural person myself. I've grew up around very strong cultural upbringing. And I can see that it's not going to happen. At this moment. Our families who resides down in mainland Australia we have a we have the cultural link which connects them back to country.Dan Ilic  28:59  What about see you? Yes. A what hope do you have a about drastic action that this government will take in the next couple of years?Yessie Mosby  29:07  I'm believing in faith. And I know that the Australia government will eventually act upon their words and help us. I really don't want to go down in the negativities and think about negativities. But you know, every, every now and then negativities, come come into my mind. But I'm trying to stand on positivity and try and think positive about the outcome would be great, and it will be a success. And our home will be saved.Dan Ilic  29:38  YesI thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear. And thank you so much for sharing your story about Messick. It sounds like a beautiful place and I hope one day COVID will be over and we can come and do a live show in the Torres Strait for you.Yessie Mosby  29:54  It wouldn't be such a blessing if us could come up and use you use will be much more welcome But we will we will be holding a big feast for you. Oh, well,Dan Ilic  30:05  if I, if I get to come up, maybe I can. I'll tweet Scott Morrison from Torres Strait Island and tell him I'm there and he can come up toYessie Mosby  30:13  it would be great.Dan Ilic  30:15  You know who you know what would be great would be, it'd be great for you to build a house for Andrew bolt. beachside, a beautiful house and call it the Andrew bolt house and convinced Andrew bolt to move to first to move to Messick. And so he can see what a beautiful place it is added. So you can you can be convinced that climate change isn't happening.Yessie Mosby  30:45  I'll probably try building a leaf house, a traditional house. So you have a full insight in how we live.Dan Ilic  31:00  It's such a stark kind of reminder, when you're talking about singing the National Anthem, and being Australian, and having a culture that is so unique and separated from the homogenous Australia we all consume in the big cities. It's such a precious thing that you have that I feel like so many people don't realise that we have it together. And I it would be such a shame to to lose it because we were being ignorant and and we ran out of time. And we just decided to burn more coal instead. Yeah. What is the best way that people who live in so called Australia can support you? What is what is something everyday Australians who are living in capital cities? Who probably don't think a lot about the tourist, right? Yep. how can how can they support you?Yessie Mosby  31:54  We have a website, which is called our islands, our home.org. And you just type that in Google our islands, our home.orgDan Ilic  32:08  there is a petition, it'll only take you a minute to to sign a petition. But by your signing of the petition, we'll save an ancient race of people to be refugees in their own country. Your support will save a race of people we could stay and still seeing from our own soil advanced Australia fee. It's a privilege to talk with you. It's a privilege to share your story on on my podcast. And I want everyone who's listening to this to encourage them to go to the our island our home webpage and put their name on the petition and let that group of people know that that your voice is important as well. Yes, he Thank you so much.Yessie Mosby  32:54  Thank you. You have a blessed day.Dan Ilic  32:56  That was YesI moseby. Lane, have you met any of the Tara stripe complainants before?Linh Do  33:02  Yes, I have had the good fortune of meeting some of the terrorists right eight before and hearing the story. I think just as you were saying, it's always a reminder of how sad the possible climate impacts could be in this country where some of the first refugees will say will be some of our First Nations people, but also still really hurtful and inspiring to say how they're taking legal action. They're doing what they can, and it's up to us not to feel pity for them. But actually, how do we stand in solidarity is always the question I have in mind.Dan Ilic  33:34  Yeah, and how can we value this culture more and recognise that Fuck, like, we could lose an entire race of people, an entire culture will disappear if we don't take action.Linh Do  33:48  Yeah, it's really I think, unnerving to actually be reminded of that. It's just very, a combination of like, humbling and eerie. And just a real reminder, this is the good fight that we're all trying to embark upon right now. And how do we step that up?Dan Ilic  34:02  It's really interesting like talking to him, he he's about my age. And it's it's kind of funny, like he's on a learning journey with the science as well as you know, someone like me, and he's but his flight is so much more existential than mine.Linh Do  34:16  Yeah, and it's so much more confrontational as a result, right. I feel sometimes even though you and I, we live in brave climate, we can go to bed at night and be like, cool. Okay, that was it for the day. I'll wake up again tomorrow. But when it's hanging over you like that? I think it just permeates into absolutely everything.Dan Ilic  34:33  Next up is Yes, he's lawyer. So if you imagine Nick, who's the one that's been putting together this landmark human rights complaint at the UN for the tar stride, this is Sophie. Tell us about the first time your entire stride and why you were there.Sophie Marjanac  34:47  So I first went to the Torres Strait in 2010. To work as a paralegal in Native Title law, so land rights law, and meant that as part of my job, I was lucky enough to fly around to each of the outer islands of the Torres Strait, and get to know the communities. And it's such a beautiful and magical part of the world, I feel really privileged to have been able to experience that. So I was lucky enough to be able to go fishing and swimming on some of the beautiful coral reefs, and even got used to the crocodilesDan Ilic  35:22  and your work when you were there as a paralegal, can you kind of explain just the day to day, what was that about?Sophie Marjanac  35:29  So basically, we represented the island is in any negotiations relating to their land. When anyone wanted to develop anything on Native Title land, we would represent them in relation to that. And also working on Native Title claims themselves, such as the Torres Strait regional seaplane, which was the first Native Title claim over sea territory and say, country in Australia. Wow.Dan Ilic  35:57  Can you remember the first time meeting? YesI moseby? AndYessie Mosby  36:00  what was that like?Sophie Marjanac  36:02  Yeah, of course, I can. Yes, a is just an all around legend. When we first met, he was put forward as the representative for asik Island by some of the elders. And I'd say that's because he's got such a real passion for the culture and traditions. And he's very young. But he knows so much about the cultural history of his family, and takes the responsibility of being a young leader really seriously.Dan Ilic  36:29  When we're talking about climate changes. Yes, he was saying like, when he was first kind of noticing what was happening, he, everyone on the islands was was noticing the effects of climate change. But I didn't understand why it was happening. You were one of the people that kind of helped them understand how this was happening and why it was happening. Can you walk us through that moment? Like when did you start kind of letting people know there about climate change and how the earth was changing?Sophie Marjanac  36:55  So we visited the islands in late 2018 and early 2019, and conducted community consultations. And we also conducted an analysis of the legal options for the communities and discuss that with them. It was really hard to go through the scientific evidence with them and talk to them about the real risk that the islands are facing in in the coming decades.Dan Ilic  37:25  When I was talking with the SEC, who was saying that the first step in this journey that they're on at the moment was to invite the Commonwealth to Messick to see the land be washed away. Can you talk us through that invitation? Who did you invite? And when did you invite them and what was it like to try and get people to Messick?Sophie Marjanac  37:44  So that invitation was was actually personally delivered by cafe cafe. Tammy is one of the claimants he's from wherever Island, which is just next to massive Island. And he actually went to New York for the climate conference in September 2019. Last year, and he personally delivered the letter to the to Australia's High Commissioner to the United Nations, in New York. And the Prime Minister did eventually respond several months later, but declined the invitation to actually go up.Dan Ilic  38:18  said no said I'm not going to get a message on they're gonna have a look at this is Ireland, a washed away?Sophie Marjanac  38:24  I think, honestly, if he did go there, and I really do believe that if anyone went there, I mean, you just immediately get what this is about, which is, and you can see why climate change is a human rights issue. Because you understand how deeply connected those communities are to their country, that connection must be experienced on those islands if the people and that's really the fundamental basis of the case is that if the people can't be on their island, and that's a fundamental break with their culture, and with their lives with dignity as indigenous peoples,Dan Ilic  39:01  I just want to go back to that letter. How did that decision get made to invite the prime minister to Messick or to Tara strike? And can you talk us through the steps that you and locals there we're going to going through to kind of get this plan in action.Sophie Marjanac  39:17  Throughout this process, we've been working with Gbk which is the good Alberta route Cod, which means warrior place and that is the peak body for the Native Title prescribed bodies corporate in the Torres Strait it's it's translates into English as the Torres Strait sea and land Council. So the board of Gbk has been clear that even though the low lying islands are most well are affected, and are leading the way in this case. They're doing on behalf of the whole region, which is which is affected in different ways. The letter we worked with GVK to prove the text of that letter and Kobe took it to New York where he was invited to speak at a conference on human rights and climate change with young climate, and environmental activists from around the world and lots of indigenous people from around the world as well.Dan Ilic  40:14  So a few months later, the federal government said, we're not going to come visit. Oh, Scott Morrison said he's not gonna come visit. What was the next step for you in that in that case?Sophie Marjanac  40:24  Well, to be honest, my focus is on the legal side. So I'm, I'm, I'm the lawyer. The island is Gbk. And we've partnered with Bri fifty.org, Australia who are assisting the communities with a local campaign. They are running a website and a petition and various social media accounts, and really trying to work with other grassroots groups and getting some cross indigenous solidarity, which I believe is going quite well. But my focus has really been on working on the case, and bringing those human rights arguments to the UN Human Rights Committee in Geneva, and attempting to we hope, make a new law on this topic, because this was this is the first case where these issues have have come so squarely before the committee. And we think it really is an excellent test case, because these islands are some of the most climate vulnerable in the world. And Australia is such an outlier. And such a laggard when it comes to global climate policy. I mean, unfortunately, Australia, Lee has performed far worse and many other rich countries that the policies are simply way behind. And I believe that's quite clear from the evidence. So we're hopeful to have a good decision, no matter what the decision is, I think it really will set a precedent of some kind. And we're hoping that the Human Rights Committee will preferDan Ilic  41:56  it. And how long do you think this process is going to take? Like, what point will you get an answer from from the UN?Sophie Marjanac  42:05  I suspect that they will make a decision next year. And we're very hopeful that that it's gonna be here rather than later. But of course, these processes do move relatively slowly.Dan Ilic  42:18  And what are the actual ramifications first for the Australian Government, if the UN comes down on the side of the Torres Strait Islanders and in the people of Messick and I mean, Australia has a long history of ignoring the UN is, I guess, is kind of what I'm saying. Yeah. Are there any other any actual ramifications? Will there be a reason to be compelled to, to change the way they go that climate action,Sophie Marjanac  42:43  I think the Australian Government does have a terrible record in relation to complying with decisions of the human rights treaty bodies, however, other states around the world do comply with those decisions. And so I think it does have the power to make a difference globally, and not just for Australia. And it also will mean that mean, it will clarify the law and move the jurisprudence forward, and I think really give the claimants and their communities a huge moral victory. They want people to know about what's going on on their islands, they want to tell the world about that. And they want their fellow Australians to see how precious the Torres Strait is and how that that connection, that cultural connection is at risk. So I think it's an opportunity to show the Australian public not only that Australia is really behind when it comes to climate change action on the global stage, and have that authoritative decision on that, but also, to show that these are this is the cultural heritage of all of us of our country. And that's what's being lost. And, you know, similarly to what happened recently NWA, there was quite an outcry over Rio Tinto decision on the jacket gorge. And we're going to see far worse cultural destruction of cultural heritage. And as I said, that belongs to all Australians. And that's really a tragedy.Dan Ilic  44:04  What do you think there's such a disconnect between someone who has lived and worked in Taurus, right, why do you think there's a bit of a disconnect between the tar strait islands and, and mainstream Australia?Sophie Marjanac  44:14  Well, practically, it's quite, it's very far away from most Australian Capital Cities, and it's really quite expensive and hard to get to. So I think that does put travellers off. So that makes it very special, because it really is. It really does take quite a bit of effort to get up there. But um, there are lots of toe Strait Islander people in Queensland especially. But I think, you know, Australia is generally relatively segregated still, and I don't think we've really recovered from the truth of our history. You know, we don't really see many indigenous stories are in the mainstream media, and in TV and newspapers, which I think is a real shame.And probably a real barrier to thatDan Ilic  45:04  that connection. And how do you think we can bridge that disconnect? what's the what's the best way to kind of tell this story?Sophie Marjanac  45:12  I think all for me, I think, you know, the media has such a huge role to play. And, you know, really just bringing in bringing those bringing those stories out and having people here and really understand what's happened to what what's happening in Australian history, obviously, education as well, in schools, I don't think that there's that much focus digitus history. Yeah. But then I think, you know, as a lawyer, to be honest, fundamentally, we need a constitutional change. And I think, you know, what happened with the older restatement from the heart was one of the worst tragedies on travesties of Malcolm Turnbull's Prime Ministership. I think that was just disgusting, the way that that if it was treated many indigenous leaders who worked so hard on that all the restatement from the heart, and it was, you know, a moment to actually create real change, I don't personally don't think we will have true reconciliation in Australia until we change the constitution. Constitution. And that is essentially a treaty that sets up the fundamental building blocks of our nation. And that is, that is what we need to do. And I think I don't think we can move forward until we've had come to terms with the past. And that's the basic truth of reconciliation is you have to, you have to be honest about the past. And then you have to come together and decide to walk forward together into a new future. And I think that's what we need to do.Dan Ilic  46:48  As someone who's based in London, and you know, you you work all over the world, how do you explain that pain to people around the world that Australia has? How do you explain how backward we are all the time?Sophie Marjanac  47:02  Well, I left constitutional law. So I think I go back to I go back to the fundamentals, which are that the legal system has always been systemically racist, quite frankly, and systemically as undervalued and devalued indigenous culture, and that, I think, permeates through our whole society, unfortunately, and and it it, it fundamentally, is not that recognition in our governing documents and in our, our way of seeing the history of our countries. And then I think that that that means that people discount indigenous history and people unfortunately, and that's carried through into everything, culturally,Dan Ilic  47:51  in this project you're working on right now, what are the crucial timelines, time markers that are coming down, that will be met? And when is it I guess, when is it a good time to make a lot of noise about this? This particular case,Sophie Marjanac  48:09  with the government will, the Australian Government will respond in a few months time, probably four months. I think that probably when we get the decision, we really want that to be amplified as much as possible. But as I said that the island is working with 350 dot org, Australia, and they've got quite a lot going on. Now. They're doing various activities, I believe, three Queensland, obviously COVID has been really tricky. The toe strait islands are pretty vulnerable. And so they they do need to put their health first and avoid too much trouble. But we are doing lots of things online. And I think if if people are engaged, then they could write to their local MP, especially if they live in Queensland, and really just talk to their friends and relatives about climate change and about this case, and about how climate change is putting at risk, one of the oldest continuing cultures on Earth. But in terms of timing, your question was on timing, but I'd say probably, February ish will be a moment. And hopefully we'll have the decision. I hope in the third quarterof next year. It's really tricky for me, so I'm sort of licking my finger and putting it in the air and but around about the third quarter. Hi,Unknown Speaker  49:34  yeah. What about you? WhatDan Ilic  49:35  for you? Who your heroes in this space? Like who do you look at and go? Damn, you know, what they've done in the past is great, and I'm a big fan of their work. And I'm trying to do that.Sophie Marjanac  49:49  I think probably my heroes are the political leaders and elders in the toe shape who are constantly working so hard in this system that set up against them to get their voices heard, and The needs of the communities heard by government. And especially I mentioned that earlier a statement from the heart but all of the work that went into that, and the indigenous leaders who, who came together to to build that I think that was really impressive and, and such a huge achievement.Unknown Speaker  50:21  GM pu. Great, a small podcast of our generation. Well, thatDan Ilic  50:25  was Sophie. Thank you very much, Lynn, for joining us on on the greatest moral podcast of our generation.Linh Do  50:31  Always great to be here.Dan Ilic  50:32  And big thank you to YesI Sophie and Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline. Plates if you like the show chippin on Patreon patreon.com forward slash irrational fear. Right now though, I have got a sneak peek of a new podcast called staying human. It's a podcast designed to put the moments we're living in right now in perspective, life is hard because we're living through a dehumanising pandemic, we need to take care of ourselves and each other. And it's all about what humans need to get by. It is hosted by a humanist chaplain at Harvard. His name is Greg Epstein, and I had to listen to it. It's pretty good. So I've got five minutes for you to have a listen to. If you enjoy it, check out staying human on your favourite podcast player. Thanks a lot. See you next month or next week on irrational fear. Thanks, Linh.Unknown Speaker  51:18  Hi.Greg Epstein  51:19  When I dropped my son off on Tuesday, March 10, I had no idea that the world as I knew it was about to change forever.I barely remember our morning routine now. The one from before, my wife would rush out the door by accident daycare centre opened at 830. But we struggled there around 945. We did something different every morning. I'd wrap him in painters tape, and we'd sing to me to the tune of Aha. He'd climb on my knees and we'd play jump the shark. We got obsessed with YouTube videos of Russian excavators stuck in quicksand. It was the first consistent, conscious experience of unconditional love in my adult life. And it was slowly starting to make me feel human in a way I never really had before. On March 10, I dropped him off, and I pulled out my phone to check Twitter on the way home. Harvard just gave students five days to pack all of their things move out and go home, read the tweet. Many can't go home because of costs and travel restrictions and they provided no guidance. And we're expected to go to class for the rest of this week. That was a keen senior computer science major from Jamaica. I'd met him a few months earlier, after a thread he tweeted went viral, a beautifully self aware vulnerable reflection on possible racial bias in the ways computer science faculty sometimes engage with students like him. Hakeem is a gifted writer. He is a passionate and compassionate young leader who turned a bad experience into a platform to fight for thousands of other students who might not be so able to fight for themselves. So it crushed me to think if even he can't cope with the situation, stranded shut down, afraid, unsure what to do next, much less how to manage the pressures of college, then how are others going to manage not just at Harvard, but all across the country and even the world? I responded without my typical overthinking, Hakeem, this is what chaplains and other advocates are for. If it's virtually impossible to go home, then you or others in your position will likely need to ask to stay. If anyone at Harvard gives you any crap about that whatsoever. That is when you call somebody like me. My name is Greg Epstein, and I'm the humanist chaplain at Harvard and MIT. That's like clergy for atheists, agnostics, and the non religious. I've dedicated my life to helping people for people sake, in good times, and in times, just like this. Anyway, responding to hikkim I continued, let me or others be your advocate with Harvard administrators or faculty who need to hear this student is not going anywhere. Because they can't, so you must provide safe and comfortable living spaces and extensions etc must be provided to deal with this stress, no ifs, ands, or buts. As hundreds of thousands of people like door responded to hikkim thread, I was shocked to see them also respond to my response by the thousands. This made me cry, responded The Daily Beast Smalley Jiang fast, an influential writer whose mother's influential writing influenced me as a teenager, doctors, actors, scholars and dozens of random strangers stop by on my page to comment or say thanks, but all I done was send literally a couple of tweets. The truth is, the reality of the pandemic was setting in and we all wanted we all needed to cry to cry our faces as one distinguished philosophy professor friend of mine, but we were all looking for some human kindness myself included in the face of a restless and ignorant virus just beginning to end millions and disrupt billions of lives.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral🗳️ Vote for A Rational Fear at the Australian Podcast Awards: https://australianpodcastawards.com/vote Thrilled to have Zali Steggall MP on the podcast this week. On Monday, November 9th, she sends her Climate Act to the lower house. You can support the act by signing up with 88,000 other Australians who want to see action on climate change: https://join.climateactnow.com.au/Also we're joined by musical comedy TikTok star Gabbi Bolt, award winning writer comedian Sami Shah, as well as Lewis Hobba and me (Dan Ilic).Thanks: Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. And post-producer Jacob Round.TRANSCRIPTION FROM OTTER.AI Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Unknown Speaker  0:04  Guy Lewis, how are you?Lewis Hobba  0:06  Good Daniel, how are you? I'm good, what could possibly be stopping me from being as good as I've ever been?Dan Ilic  0:11  Nothing in the news in particular. First of all, I wanted to say a big shout out to our new Patreon supporters, Damian pine and Philip boothby. Thank you so much to everyone who joins us on Patreon because it helps us make the show every week. Another way you can support a rational fee is to offset the carbon emissions of your car with a go neutral sticker for every $90 sticker go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets, which is about the yearly emissions for your average con five bucks that comes to us. I should make a point handy, Louis that the owners shouldn't be on the individual. We need to get big polluters to pay for the pollution. But before we do that, boy, it feels nice to just drive around knowing that my emissions are offset, and I got a little sticker that to virtue signal to all of my other people on the road.Lewis Hobba  0:57  Right? I ride a scooter. So if I go neutral that will cover me for like, two lifetimes.Dan Ilic  1:03  You're totally fine. You're totally fine. Yeah. Also no St. Louis. This is a big announcement. And a big thank you to everyone who listens to the show, because on the weekend, we got nominated for Best Comedy podcast at the Australian podcast awards. So thank you very muchLewis Hobba  1:18  the last time we lost that award. We lost it on the night of the last Australian election. So if you recall, we were all sitting in the crowd just watching our phones the whole time going. I this us winning or losing this award is less important than the other winner loss happening in the country right now.Dan Ilic  1:34  Yes, that's right. I totally forgot about that. We are up against some good people though. improv tunes. A couple of comedians called Hamish and Andy. I've never heard of him, Matt dalla and Tony Martin sizzle town and Alfred's dragon friends featuring your Triple J colleague, Michael King. What we know is king beats us.Lewis Hobba  1:56  Honestly, if I lose to Michael King, I'm gonna have to quit it. I bet Yeah. I feel like sort of like Trump about a week ago. And he was talking about job and just being like, I'm gonna lose to that guy. That guy? Well, I can't lose my, my pride won't allow it.Dan Ilic  2:10  We need your help as well go to Australian podcast awards.com forward slash vote and vote for us and the people Choice Awards. And if you do, Lewis and I will read out all 3000 of your names.Lewis Hobba  2:21  I mean, sure. It's a it's a it's his new podcast. We're starting. Lewis and Dan ratings. I'm recording mine. But that isDan Ilic  2:29  actually that's just every other podcast that does like Wikipedia. True Crime stuff. I write out Wikipedia entries. I'm recording mine of a rational fee on gadigal. land in New York nation. sovereignty was never seated, waited a treaty. Let's start the shark.Joe Hockey  2:43  A rational fear contains naughty wordslike bricks cambro.Unknown Speaker  2:49  Gum, and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audiencesDan Ilic  2:56  tonight. In the Queensland election, one nation suffers the most humiliating decline since Pauline Hansen's descent down the road. And Gladys berejiklian promises to open the New South Wales Victoria border by mid November, and millions of Melbourne Knights promised to warm up back up again. And researchers have discovered that November is the longest month of 2020 and they haven't even seen December 28. This podcast was recorded on the fifth of November at 8pm. If you're listening to us from the future, we want to say we're sorry, the world is a scary place. That's why you're listening to irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear that gives you the scared a sweaty hand to hold on. I'm your host Dan Ilic former spiritual adviser to the President. And this way, we've got some great fear mongers she's a writer, performer and musician and proofing even though you live in the Central West of New South Wales, you can make a big on Tick tock, it's Gabby baltzUnknown Speaker  4:01  Hello, Gabby. I'm gonna go on my graveDan Ilic  4:03  you've blown up on Tick Tock writing oz Paul musicals Has anyone given you a sponsorship endorsementUnknown Speaker  4:08  yet? No. All I've received is a flag from 2007 in the mail from good old Kevin rod is nice. A friend of kin is very nice. Yeah, I've got got him in the camera roll and everything. But yeah, that's all I know other political donations please in the pocket ofDan Ilic  4:24  rod and he's a former and told mentor of the Taliban. It's this Saturday is Saturday six semi shot. Can IUnknown Speaker  4:32  semi?Sami Shah  4:32  I just want to make it clear that the Taliban and I have mended fences.All find ourselves.Surprisingly they are in agreement with me about a lot of things they like watching repeats of low you know or binge watching the wires are knocked down. They love listening to ambi sound podcasts as well as different ambient sounds.Overlap turns outDan Ilic  4:57  Sammy, can I ask you this in American democracy Slowly breaking down. Do you have any advice for Americans on how to live with a military code? Oh, look. Okay,Sami Shah  5:05  so the first trick is you have to have an assassination plan in place. All right. So in in 1988, we had to get creative. We had a dictator for 10 years. At that point, we knew something. So we filled a crate of mangoes, explosives, and put on a plane and the plane exploded because the mangoes exploded. So you got to the bottom, like no one's getting in a library with a rifle anymore. That ship doesn't work. Alright, so the other thing you have to understand is dictators aren't that bad, you know? They build statues. Everyone gets a job in statue building in the baby high growth industry all of a sudden, if you torture you are this is the buyer's market. All right, so you really need to own up those skills. No.Dan Ilic  5:57  And finally, he's the permanent guest of the Australian podcast Award nominated comedy podcast irrational fear is less How about Hello, Dan? Yeah,Lewis Hobba  6:05  I'm also Amy Shandy.Dan Ilic  6:08  Coming up. member for maringa The Honourable Sally steggall MP. She joins us to talk about her massive work coming up. Also, we want to ask her what it feels like to bake Tony Abbott. Figuratively of course. But first, we have a sponsor.Russell Crowe  6:24  Good eye on Russell Crowe. In Australia, we lucky we live in a peaceful democracy with universal health care, and VBA. But others around the world aren't so fortunate. They live each day with no access to doctors education, and are forced to drink filter coffee. Their cities are mired in civil unrest. Their people are threatened by local militia with both fashion sense. And to make matters worse, they don't have sweet chilli sauce, Americans, but for just $1 a day, you can sponsor an American at globe visions adopt an American programme will pair you up with an American in need, and will build cafes in their neighbourhood that serve non processed food and flat whites will send a doctor that will both bill and distribute pharmaceuticals that they won't have to sell their house to receive. And each month you'll get a photo of your American and they'll send you a ballot for a vote that they want to cast, but couldn't because they had an outstanding parking ticket or moved house on Thursday or some other obscure bullshit. So given American Samoa and a decent chance that a good espresso, it works. I've been part of the Australian adopter Kiwi programme and look at me. I'm Russell Crowe. Very good.Dan Ilic  7:41  It's a worthy cause. They're excellent. There's a lot of stuff going on in the news. I don't know if you notice that James Packers crown could lose their casino licence in New South Wales. The the largest battery in the southern hemisphere is coming to Victoria. But there's only one story everyone's talking about. Yes, boy, George is going to be recording a Christmas song with Delta goodrem Oh, MJ, what do you guys think? No.Joe Hockey  8:04  way he should.Dan Ilic  8:06  Now we're talking about of course the election as of recording right now. We don't know who will be President Biden is only about six electoral college votes away from winning. But by the time this podcast comes out, who knows maybe the next president knighted states could be Eric Trump. We don't know. The counting continues. The protests have started their parties everywhere from Michigan to Portland and even in Maricopa County, in Arizona fear mongers. I'm gonna play you a grab of some of these protests. And I want to I want you to tell me who is protesting and what are they chanting and Gabby has thankfully made us a theme song for this. So let me play that asUnknown Speaker  8:42  well. Here we go. Sometimes they're happy. Sometimes they're ranting, let's play who is protesting and what are they chanting? Very good.Dan Ilic  8:51  Okay, guys ready to play? All right. First up, here we go.Lewis Hobba  9:10  Stop the stop account.Dan Ilic  9:12  Yeah, they asked they are they could be yes. Perhaps they are indeed some of them are saying stop the count while the others one or the other sayUnknown Speaker  9:19  a count all the votes. count allDan Ilic  9:21  the votes? Yes, they are. They are and who are they Trump Biden supporters.Unknown Speaker  9:26  Support Yes.Sami Shah  9:29  inconsistency. Yeah. But only because that level of that level of inconsistency can only come from one side of the political divide, which is a drop of water. They are very much the standard themselves as well, not knowing that the shootings on the back.Unknown Speaker  9:44  Yeah, I can relate there like when I was in year 11 and 12. I was protesting mathematics as well. So I mean,Sami Shah  9:51  as the only known, I mean, the technical term is non white. Over here right now. All the supporters All protesters on both sides of the aisle are all white from the footage. Yeah. Is this a cultural thing that I don't understand this like the, the application of for mayonnaise or the love of DNA testing like white cultural thing the I guess,Lewis Hobba  10:17  actually sorry I think this is proving the point of so many white supremacists for so long, which is that not all white people are the same. Some white people want to stop the counts and stuff. I want to keep the counts going. You know, where diverse people with diverse interests.Unknown Speaker  10:30  just seems like a sequel to Eat, Pray Love, just shout. get angry, contradict each other.Dan Ilic  10:37  Let's play the next round.Unknown Speaker  10:38  Sometimes they're happy. Sometimes they're ranting, let's play who is protesting and what are they chanting? Alright, roundDan Ilic  10:47  two. Here we go.Gabbi Bolt  10:56  Are they mad at Fox?Dan Ilic  10:58  Fox but who is mad at Fox? Trump's mad at Fox. Okay. Okay, so Trump supporters are mad at Fox because they are protesting. These Trump supporters are at the Capitol. They're protesting because Fox made the call that Joe Biden was gonna win Arizona.Unknown Speaker  11:18  We don't like the news.Unknown Speaker  11:21  You know what? That's not even a joke. That's just pretty much that tagline.Unknown Speaker  11:24  No more facts. No. Yeah.Sami Shah  11:27  Apparently, there's a story that apparently is like it's an inside source thing, but that Trump got angry. He called up rupert murdoch and yelled at him about the Arizona account. And what Murdoch didn't back down. And it's trouble in paradise. I mean, this is the most magic breakups in Miley Cyrus and Hemsworth thought like this is as much of a heartbreaking like you think some love would last forever, but clearly nothing mean dating just bullshit oneUnknown Speaker  12:02  day after he endorses the petition to a that would be the next step. Yeah, yeah. Trump on Twitter being like sign this petition I'mUnknown Speaker  12:09  reallyDan Ilic  12:10  gonna be signing on Monday straightaway. Finally here we go.Unknown Speaker  12:16  Sometimes they're happy sometimes they're ranting let's play who was protesting and what are theyDan Ilic  12:22  chanting and finally this oneJoe Hockey  12:28  is covering up the fight crime family steal this election is covering up.covering up we will not free up for the world. He was not free of Joe Biden is covering upUnknown Speaker  12:42  his election. He's stealing their that.Dan Ilic  12:46  Okay, so who is he? What is he channelling? I think it's Nick. Naughty. I think Nick naughty is trying to get an Oscar forLewis Hobba  12:57  Oh, Gary Busey. As big busyingSami Shah  13:03  tonight, can I just say, at the heart, I've never agreed with the T shirt more. I've never had barbecue beer freedom has ever I've noticed most seen done by that T shirt.Unknown Speaker  13:17  Nothing is more attractive.Unknown Speaker  13:21  Nothing is more attractive than that.Lewis Hobba  13:22  So it's also it's a fourth of July top and I reckon that guy has probably been wearing it since the Fourth of July and really enjoying the be a part of that show. My favouriteUnknown Speaker  13:32  part about that video. I saw that video earlier today is definitely the guy giving the press conference maybe waits a solid three beats for the guy to just slowly walk back in the building, and then just kind of turns around, and he's like, Alright, moving on. Do you just expect chaos like that? America just they waiting for everyone that yell at that press conference.Lewis Hobba  13:55  He The problem was he wasn't expecting everyone to give him his freedom. Like he was waiting to get tackled or grabbed or something. And he's like, Oh, no, it appears the third part of my shirt was already allowed.Unknown Speaker  14:07  I guess I just walked myself out.Lewis Hobba  14:09  You feel his head back to this barbecue.Unknown Speaker  14:13  Listening to a rational seer.Unknown Speaker  14:16  This is an embarrassment to ourJoe Hockey  14:18  country. We were getting ready to win this election.Frankly, we didn't win this election. By theDan Ilic  14:25  time this podcast comes out, you probably already know who's president we can we can only tell you things that we already it's that guy. It's theUnknown Speaker  14:32  radium shed guy.Lewis Hobba  14:33  I've already reached across the aisle. He's like, what's three things we can all agree on.Dan Ilic  14:39  So in the last couple of days, what we've seen is Trump declaring that he's one only if people stopped counting, Biden managed to flip four states Trump managed to flip out he's got so bad that Kanye West sent every American a hologram ghost of their dead democracy. Even former Australian ambassador to the United States and alleged treasure for sale Joe hockey got in on the action saying the vote was right. In Washington, DC, this is him on Ben forums programme earlier this week.Joe Hockey  15:05  The other 10,000 different organisations that are responsible for setting the rules for the US presidential election 10,000 in Australia had the Australian Electoral Commission, thank God that governs the rules for federal laws for federal elections in the US are 10 every state, and then you have counties and you have cities. And if there's a strong bias one way or the other, they do everything they can to either suppress the vote, or to to, you know, to increase about it's just it's a mess.Unknown Speaker  15:38  So there's a chance that electoral fraud has happened.Joe Hockey  15:42  Oh, for sure. I mean, it will be but the question is whether it's enough to change the election. And I doubt it is, but But yeah, I absolutely. did. I last thought, in Washington, DC 93% of the city voted pejabat 93%. Even my best booth and launderable. God bless him. When the kids were handing out to the Labour Party. Even my best booth, I got 83% 93% in the city. I find it hard to believe soUnknown Speaker  16:18  he finds it hard to believe. Wow, ILewis Hobba  16:19  gotUnknown Speaker  16:20  it honestly, in Washington.Lewis Hobba  16:22  Yeah. And it honestly feels like at the for the first part of the interview. He's reading a pamphlet that he's just found out there. He's just picked up a place He's like,Unknown Speaker  16:31  do you know they have counties? Yeah.Dan Ilic  16:34  Joe Joe, Joe? Joe hockey on TGV sounds like a guy that's just listened to a lot of American political podcasts and it's just trying toLewis Hobba  16:43  Yeah, he's your friend. He says like,Unknown Speaker  16:47  my favourite thing is him not considering that a candidate can get higher than 83%.Lewis Hobba  16:52  And also, like, the history of that is like, no democrat has got under 90% in 15 years, like Hillary Clinton got 91 Yeah, Obama got 92% it just like that. You're that you're out diplomat to that country. And every like, everyone knowsUnknown Speaker  17:09  that shit.Joe Hockey  17:10  What is wrong withSami Shah  17:12  me, but that's not that's not accurate. Here's me, Rick. Ricky forgetting he wasn't our diploma. Reese told him. He was our ambassador to America, reduced anxiety. That was supposed to be his, you know, he is sentenced to his Guantanamo Bay to go there and never come back. I don't know how he got back here.Lewis Hobba  17:36  Maybe you'd have called Getting the plum position in America failing upwards in like any other generation, except this one where you are like, Joe thinks this is the population. We're sending him to the apocalypse.Sami Shah  17:51  Yeah, there are people right now, who are the ambassador to Syria who are like, Oh, my God.That waslike about your hockey. All right. And I do like one thing about your hockey is that Joe hockey is actually just a random factor that i don't know i have in my head, but he's actually a Palestinian Armenian. So he's not actually a white guy. And his real name. I'm not making this up. You can look this up is Joe, aka Dorian. But they changed it a hockey to improve his chances in the family's Johnson's in resettling into him in Australia, Joe hockey domian had been running for politics. He would be in the Green Party right now. In the seat of Brunswick, orthe ambassador to America and Sammy, that'sDan Ilic  18:43  the only reason why he was only treasurer, he would have been Prime Minister if they'd said it if they change the name to Joe cricket.Sami Shah  18:54  They did offer it to him apparently, at one point Tony Abbott did asked him if he wanted to be the leader of the Liberal Party and john said no, because he wasn't willing to give up on emissions trading. This is a true story. I don't know why I know this much about Joe hockey. All right, I do. But this so there's a few things about him. He you know, he's actually a Palestinian Armenian. He almost became the liberal Liberal Party, and he thinks no one can be more popular than him when it turns out that's actually pretty common in the world.Lewis Hobba  19:25  When you're literally chased out of a country for being a reviled treasure with one of the worst budgets in living memory, like and people likeJoe Hockey  19:33  me, it's whileUnknown Speaker  19:37  is everyone who knows me knows I want to make it perfectly clear to the community. I have evil in my heart.Joe Hockey  19:45  No Fear is rational.Dan Ilic  19:48  Final fear for this week, Georgia democratic organisers are calling out people to go to tele rooms to cure ballots. Fear mongers, when you hear the term curing ballots. What do you think that means? just leaving them for several months in a brine.Unknown Speaker  20:06  Exactly what I thoughtSami Shah  20:09  when you put them in Brian is when youDan Ilic  20:12  pick Oh, yeah, let's pick a balance everyone wrong. Yeah.Lewis Hobba  20:17  Right. Oh, of course, of course God.Dan Ilic  20:20  Now here's the thing if a ballot has a mismatch mismatch signature or the signature is missing on the ballot, it could be tried out or people have forgotten to sign the back of the return envelope will fail to get the witness to fill out their witness information correctly, the ballot could be completely thrown out. So what's happening is volunteers are being asked to go down and sit in a room and call everyone who voted and made a made a mistake on their ballot to rectify this ballot. It's an elaborate process, they've got to sign an affidavit and fax that affidavit in or mail or send that affidavit in with a copy of their driver's licence to get that ballot revalidated. It's like so much paperwork, if you make one little mistake.Unknown Speaker  20:59  I barely passed the HSC. I don't think I could Miss America.Lewis Hobba  21:05  America's filingDan Ilic  21:08  this week is also strange for another reason in US politics, one that affects us. The United States has formally lifted the Paris Agreement this way three years ago, Trump pulled out which is normally a good thing when he pulls out. But sadly, it undermines this really important work. Our next guest was elected on her green credentials. He's a barrister, Olympian, and independent member for ringu zali. steggall. Oh, am MP good izombie. Zombies absolutely are privileged to have you with us this week. And because on Monday, something incredibly important is going to happen. And I can't help but feel like once again, it's kind of been overshadowed by the moment we're living in right now.Zali Steggall  21:50  Well, yes, and no, I actually picked it on purpose, because I figured we were either gonna be in a good place worldwide in terms of climate. And we could reverse the decision that Trump took in terms of pulling the us out of the Paris Agreement, or the rest of the world's got to get skates on and counter the impact of the US going road when it comes to climate. So either way, our second Monday, the ninth isn't really important day for us to put a plan in place and get on with lowering our emissions.Dan Ilic  22:22  Tell us from the very start what is going to happen on Monday? And what what how do you think it'll go?Zali Steggall  22:28  Sure, I will look obviously, as an independent, I'm actually came into parliament, mainly to try and actually stop the weaponized you know, debate we've had in Australia around climate change and put forward a sensible plan down the middle. So I tried to bring bipartisanship to this so that we can actually help plan so I mean, producing legislation that is in it's actually conservative UK legislation that was passed in the UK, but with bipartisan support, so completely no reason why coalition can't accept it here. And actually, the UK Prime Minister is calling on the Morison government to getting to get on board with the same commitment of net zero by 2050. So the legislation is coming on Monday to the parliament present to you. There'll be a fair bit of stuff around it, my fellow crossbenchers will be speaking on it. And I've invited the prime minister to to actually take the lead and you know, actually be the leader striving needs him to be at the moment.Dan Ilic  23:25  That's very generous of you. Haven't there been any examples where he's done that? And the last little bit that we can say,Zali Steggall  23:33  we're looking for start around 20 with the bush fires? Oh, you know, I'll give you that. I wasn't very impressed with that part of it. But look, during the pandemic we have we've seen the Prime Minister Singh premiers, stand up with the scientists give us good factual justification for policy and it works and the Australian people have overwhelmingly complied. I mean, apart from a few people protesting we've really had whole of society, getting on board with the measures needed. And we I reckon we're leading the world in terms of how well we've done economically and health wise, on the pandemic side,Dan Ilic  24:06  it's amazing what can happen when you listen to a bunch of scientists who actually know what they're talking about.Unknown Speaker  24:11  Wow.Zali Steggall  24:13  You have a policy based on facts and science. And we know with climate, we need to do the same thing as what we did with the pandemic. The pandemic is a tiny taste of what's to come with climate if we don't get our act together. So it is a perfect time for the prime minister to step upSami Shah  24:30  your luck closer to the Prime Minister than I will ever get to be so I have no knowledge of this. Why is it that if you know a pandemic scientist is one that finds believable, but a climate change scientist is one that you find that he can't trust in just like a Shia Sunni thing?belief system.Zali Steggall  24:53  Obviously, one of the horrendous things yeah, 2020 has been challenging on so many fronts, but it has seen shift towards accepting science. So I think the Prime Minister has to stick to the game we set the path on the cut on the coronavirus pandemic, we need to do the same on on our missions, we need to flatten the curve on our missions. Let's get down to net zero. And then we will feel safer.Lewis Hobba  25:16  Do you think that I mean, the bushfires were so awful. And a lot of people who have been looking for climate change solutions for so long, I've been worried something like that would have would have to happen before anyone, obviously on a, you know, conservative side took any kind of action. And and no one wanted that to happen, obviously is devastating. And but you know, has it put politics into a position where you think the Prime Minister might be, I mean, either willing in generously or politically, if you're a ungenerous force due to the fact that he his reputation took such a pounding when he disappeared to Hawaii, that he might be sort of forced to really act this time.Zali Steggall  25:58  Look, I think I'd be a mixture, you know, I really hope that he is the leader, that, you know, he has the opportunity to be and step up to this and bring everyone together. I acknowledge Not everyone can agree on this. But we've got a really sensible pathway forward here. And you've got the rest of the world joining in, you know, the UK, Japan, South Korea, France, Germany, it you know, the list goes on, that's committed to net zero by 2050. We don't want to be missing out. We don't want to be behind our trading partners. We need to be on top of this now. Is it going to come there but grudgingly behind the ball? Or does he take the handbrake off? And he put us ahead? That's the that's the challenge. And at the end of the day, is how do you want to be remembered as you know, the power of this parliament and as the Prime Minister, we've had a pretty big year already with 2020. And ultimately, this is our biggest challenge. So I'm still hopeful to build consensus, you know, I'm not the opposition. I'm an independent, my job is to try and bring people in the room. And so that, you know, try and bring people that are a part two together for a solution.Sammy, I think you either agree orUnknown Speaker  27:06  Jane.Sami Shah  27:09  No, I absolutely, positively agree. I just want to change the topic briefly for a moment, because I don't know when I'll ever get a chance to ask you this is so when you retrieve the sword from the lake and lunge into the chest, check offyour armour.Unknown Speaker  27:34  Thank you, Sammy. That was actually my next question. That wasZali Steggall  27:40  funny enough, during the campaign, we actually I had to match tiny on his sporting prowess. So I have both participated in the cold classic swim we both in the local runs. And he actually released a team of bodyguards did while the local five k runs and beat me to the finish line. And they were claiming that I was going to be the big wind. So but little did he know that I was saving it really for the big race, which was the important one.Lewis Hobba  28:09  Yeah, Tony ever, it was always of the belief as a leader that he could run around the country that would justify his ability to run it.Dan Ilic  28:16  Some people, some people who may be uncharitable might say, what's the point of an independent backbencher? throwing this in the ring and getting this into parliament? Why don't just get to fade it in? Everybody moves on? What do you say to those people?Zali Steggall  28:29  Well, with due respect, the major parties haven't really gotten this this so far, you know, they're kind of, they keep using the issue of climate as a way of trying to beat the other side. And they only really look at their own self interest. We know 80% of Australians are concerned about climate change, sit over 60% want us to commit to net zero by 2050. Labour labour, you know, they say that they're committed to it, but they don't really have a plan. And the liberals know and the coalition know they have to do more, are they under threat from a lot of areas like orinda that want more action on climate change. So I think I am the perfect person to bring it forward. And actually said, This isn't about one side winning over the other. This is actually about the Australian people get to win. So my call has been for all of society to get behind it to get business, get industry and get health care environment groups, everyone to come forward and ask for this solution with I think Australia has had enough of the climate walls. We want 2020 to be the year we all move on. like totally,Dan Ilic  29:29  and it's so transparent to say that particularly on state levels all around the country. And it's so weird just to have this outline of the Federal the federal coalition just doing f all and it's so it's just so it's it's so frustrating to see this. It's so frustrating to see the lack of leadership when everybody with the tail is wagging the dog in Australia, like the local governments, the state governments, the corporations, they're all they're all doing what they can and yet there is no formal action plan. From the It's so strangeZali Steggall  30:01  to see who you think is the towel say I think the tail wagging the dog is actually that kind of ends. And, you know, the fire Queensland and rays are hanging on to fossil fuel industry in their electorates. And there are only one or two votes. And it's all the others that are following this kind of with call from these outline and pace. So I think that's a towel that we need to get rid of so that the dog can get on with the job.Sami Shah  30:26  And someone is not a politician, you know, because that's not the background, the people in Parliament, most of the people in Canberra, this is all they do. This is all they've done the young people when they were teenagers, because they have two losers. And this is Bob they followed. It is weird. Is it like? How do you adapt to that culture, you know, as a civilian and a normal human being a functioning adult prior to this? I think I was functioning.Zali Steggall  30:59  I have had moments where I've been quite astounded by what happens in Parliament and the way some people behave. And when I think that these are the people that are making the laws that are going to regulate everyone's life. It's quite astounding. But look, there are some good people component on both sides of the aisle that have in life experience. But if you could then curry politicians or people that have only had experienced through the party machine, and they have to have a career outside politics. I think that would be a good thing.Dan Ilic  31:30  Like sports soon as they get an injury. They're off to Melbourne.Zali Steggall  31:37  Yeah, if you're doing a job application, yes.skills.Dan Ilic  31:43  Well, Sally, thank you so much for joining us on a rational fee. Good luck on Monday, my friend Melvin directed a great little ad to promote the climate change act last week, and I think went out last week. It was very moving. It's a beautiful ad. I'll share it in the in the show notes. When we put the podcast out. It's just a kind of gripping cinematic piece that somebody trapped within the fires trying to write a letter to their MP and it's just, it's just heartbreaking. I know Melvin and I was messaging my my my wife was messaging him throughout the throughout that period when we had bushfires, and he was actually him and his his family were trapped in fires. And it was I think all of us were so shocked by that moment in January, that that was a wake up call that we needed and sadly COVID came through and wiped out the momentum for it but I don't think it's gone away. I honestly think honestly, I think people are still engaged with these issues and want to see action on this issue. And I think you have such a huge backing. And I just wish you luck.Zali Steggall  32:44  Thank you. Well, I need you guys and everybody out there to get behind it.Lewis Hobba  32:48  every vote counts. If you can do this, Sally, we will get all that Patreon subscribers to donate $1 will melt down those dollars and we'll make you a special gold medal. Rational peace.Dan Ilic  33:01  We want to thank you very much at least before we go Gabby has written us a song to see us out. It's about time I have it that happened this week. MeGabbi Bolt  33:10  basically Yes, the Melbourne Cup happened this week. And I I've never really supported the Melbourne Cup much in my life ever. Except when I was six and I wanted the pony. But I saw that another horse died this week sorry this is sounding old very Simpsons funeral mochi. But I went and wrote this song so I've come up with a solution. I've come up with a solution that I think will please literally everyone, sports lovers, arts people, broke students like myself, everyone's happy with this so I hope you hope the government somehow hear this and hear me out. It's shameful to think as a nation we drink and celebrate the Melbourne Cup. We place all our bets hold back champagne intense while a horse coughs up along televised in disguise to the nation as a classy and fancy occasion. But instead of a whole scopes competition, here's what I'm thinking, Oh, why don't we just race the spec Titans. Check him on the Flemington track. Let them keep their fancy fascinators if they run the whole lap, I want to see you know rail who's missing his shoes and Darrell who's on his 12th glass of booze step up to the plate something nation to race for the Melbourne Cup. And I'm not saying we should change the whole damn thing. They'll still be real monetary stakes on who we think we should when school kids will dress up because they dedicated we add a spare cup to the most neighbour. Yeah. I mean, I'm not one for sports. But one thing I know I watch the shit out of that show race the spectators make them run for the big prize and if someone's breaks a leg that aren't have to be euthanized. Time for an equine intervention bringing in a new kind of athletic content. I think it would be more fun for the spectators to run in the Melbourne Cup. Yes swap the horse hooves for heels make the rich really squeal for the Melbourne Cup yes say no to horse cruelty cuz the spectators should beUnknown Speaker  35:32  very I feel very passionate about it just off of the climate change act goes live on Monday I'll bring in my rich people should run the funding contract.Dan Ilic  35:42  Jingle for climate change. Evie has got you. Please thank Gabby both Lewis hobas semi Shah zali steggall Thank you very much everyone. Do you have anything to plug Gabby? You wanna plug anything?Unknown Speaker  35:54  I have music from two years ago on Spotify. Very useful. I it's okay. That's there. But apart from that nothingDan Ilic  36:02  follow Gabby on tik tok and Twitter semi Shah Do you ever need to plugSami Shah  36:06  my comedy albums are still on this Alisha? eg@emi.com you can buy those if you were searchingDan Ilic  36:14  zali steggall I was feeling I know what you're gonna plugZali Steggall  36:18  he could go the climate now.com donate you both in support the climate act.Dan Ilic  36:24  Excellent. And let us How about what are you plugging?Lewis Hobba  36:27  a Nazi Russia I'm on holidays next week. On the show. I guess I'm just plugging yam but I'm going to Yeah, you're never been there. You're in Yeah, but say hello.Dan Ilic  36:37  big thank you to ride bikes, the birth of foundation go nutro Our Patreon subscribers Kilian David David bluestein Maddy Palmer our discord community for a great chunk suggestions this week also want to thank Russell Crowe roupa de gas, and of course our post producer Jacob round of the tepanyaki timeline Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Good night.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral THIS WEEK'S PODCAST:We check the receipts for Senate Estimates, get into branding with NIXVM cult, and celebrate Kim Kardashian's Birthday in a totally normal way.We also talk with Senator. Lidia Thorpe about the sacred grove of Djab Wurrung trees that are being felled to make way for a highway duplication. To express your anger at the destruction of 800 years of Djab Wurrung culture, and therefore Australian culture, email your local Victorian State MP. Here's a few to get you started:<daniel.andrews@parliament.vic.gov.au> <gabrielle.williams@parliament.vic.gov.au><richard.wynne@parliament.vic.gov.au><jacinta.allan@parliament.vic.gov.au>Dan IlicLewis HobbaConcetta CaristoZoë Coombs Marr Senator. Lidia ThorpeZoë is performing at the Two Queers Festival at Giant Dwarf in November. Get tickets here. https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/zoe-coombs-marr/Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. And post-producer Jacob Round.Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.Dan Ilic  0:05  Oh, hello Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:07  Hello Daniel. How are you?Dan Ilic  0:08  I'm well and well have things in your neck of the woods.Lewis Hobba  0:11  Correct and I don't know if you've heard 2020 my year. I'm okay, I'm having a no right time all things considered.Dan Ilic  0:19  I know it's a it's a rough time for all sorts of people. But we'll get into that we've got a podcast to discuss those sorts of things. We want to thank our Patreon supporters who have jumped on board this week, including Chris Kohler and Tom crean again, if you want to support us on Patreon you can head over to patreon.com forward slash rational fear and not just a way to support irrational fears buy two carbon offset the emissions of your car with a go neutral sticker. For every $90 sticker go neutral. We'll buy 3.5 tonnes of offsets which is about the yearly emissions of a car and five bucks that comes to us. I've got it I've got a little sticker on the back of my car people think oh, well that 2000 Carolla that's, that's covered. That's good.Lewis Hobba  0:58  It's the only bloody thing about the show. That is neutral. All right, dad.Dan Ilic  1:04  Yeah, fuck you, ABC. We're taking positions for left wing inner city lefties. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in your nation's sovereignty was never said. We need a treaty. Let's stop the shark.VO  1:17  A Russian mafia contains naughty words like bricks cambro gum,and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audiences.Dan Ilic  1:30  Tonight after 112 days Melbourne has eased lockdown restrictions However, some hipster cafes have remained closed to be ironic. And water is discovered on the moon but it turns out it can't be used for anything as it's already owned by Angus Taylor. And in just under a week, the season finale of the United States of America is on who will get fine that week. I'm excited. It's Halloween 2020 or as we call it in Australia book quake. This is arrested Oh fair.Hello, welcome to rational faith. I'm your host former sexy nurse Dan Ilic. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's a comedian improviser and radio broadcasting from Sydney her 2019 festival showed loose one so much critical acclaim that it got picked up to be part of the 2020 bats festival at Gryphon theatre company which probably got cancelled, after organise realises that she was a little tireless, just because of COVID-19 is Kanchana Christo.Concetta Caristo  2:37  Oh my god. Hey, it's me. The cancelled woman. Good to be here.Dan Ilic  2:44  She's the multiple award winning lockdown special having jewel personality performing hyphenated hyphenating. It's a privilege to have the double barreled Triple Threat herself. Zoe combs Ma.Zoë Coombs Marr  2:55  It's Zoe knowledge, actually.Unknown Speaker  3:01  reputation. Really? You know,Zoë Coombs Marr  3:07  I am waiting to be congratulated before it really happens all the time. I get confused. Like, I love you on the checkout.Unknown Speaker  3:15  That's not me. That'sLewis Hobba  3:19  crazy.Dan Ilic  3:25  And he is one half of wedding magic act pen and haba it's Louis haba. Wow. Oh, myLewis Hobba  3:31  God. I was thinking the other day. I want to go and get my like,Unknown Speaker  3:37  matchingLewis Hobba  3:38  my Nike glasses. No. No, I want to go and get ordained so that I can marry people. All right, because I emcee a lot of weddings and a lot of friends weddings. I just happen to you guys, as people who talk in the market price for family you get asked to me every wedding. Plus I can sometimes DJ weddings. So if I can do the marrying? I'm a one man wedding band. Wow. Wow. I'm actuallyConcetta Caristo  3:59  I'm trying to get my magic lessons so thatLewis Hobba  4:02  I really feel about the magic ofDan Ilic  4:05  coming up a little later on. We're gonna be talking to Senator Lydia Thor about the directions tree stuff that's going on in Victoria. It's very sad stuff. We'll be talking with her a little bit later on. But first, let's hear a message from our sponsor.Vladimir Putin  4:22  Fellow I am American friend Vladimir Putin. These unprecedented times require some president. So me President of Russia is encouraging Americans to vote president of USA. I know how dangerous election season can be. I was only candidate in the Russian election who didn't have horrible accident. So it's important to pick someone who's a strong man standing for you. That is why I endorse Joe Biden. Not because he's strong, but because Donald Trump will default on long and I will finally get me universe Belgium at a very cheap price. Of course, if you were good American patriot you may do opposite of what I say I don't give a fuck. USA is fun to watch burn down. And Vladimir Putin and I approve this message.Dan Ilic  5:18  The first fear this week it's the most magical time in politics. It's senate estimates happy senate estimates everyone, I hope you're having a fantastic set of estimates. This year, this is where we thought you bless you.Senator. Lidia Thorpe  5:32  with you. Also with you have yourDan Ilic  5:34  part of Senate estimates is cut is like taking a whole bunch of receipts and throwing them at your friends. Yes, bless you, bless you. It's where we find out just how far public servants will go to protect the ministers from scrutiny. Last week, of course, we learned that you can get a Cartier watch by simply working at Australia Post and doing a good job. This week, we learned that our first submarine could be launched in around 37 years. Yes. The new subs are coming and they're gonna be coming about when the iPhone 49 will be released. Yes, it's very exciting. Incidentally, the iPhone 49 will have an inbuilt submarine. So you know, that'll be redundant. The subs gonna cost us $90 billion. The iPhone, iPhone 49 will only cost us a billion dollars. So you know, you do the math. fishmonger's doesn't bother you that these new submarines that we're building today won't be working in our waters until it's 37 years.Concetta Caristo  6:31  No, actually, because I spoke to a psychic this week. And she said that in 2015 it's gonna be a really good time for me. So I think that it's like actually a good time for the submarines and for me, and so that's sort of why it's happening. So I'm really stoked about it. Yeah.Lewis Hobba  6:45  And are you an Aquarius?Concetta Caristo  6:48  Aquarius. I'm a Libra. So no, no,Unknown Speaker  6:53  not a water sign today.Concetta Caristo  6:55  Thank you so much. I lied. I'msorry. I'm being such a politician right now. Sorry,Zoë Coombs Marr  7:03  Leo. I feel like I feel like 2015 is going to be a pretty good time for submarines, because we'll all be underwater then. Anyway, but it's sort of I'm like, that's 37 years. I'm 36 that's like if someone when I was born went like, and for the birth of your child, we shall give her a floppy disk. We're still working on it. And she'll get it just before like she'll get it just before she turns 40. And the technology may be obsolete but Oh, what a floppy disk.Unknown Speaker  7:39  It's ridiculous. Like it's gonnaSenator. Lidia Thorpe  7:41  That's it? It's gonna be a worst submarine ever. Yes. ButLewis Hobba  7:47  if it is Waterworld will apply it out Tommy perfectly. Like if you No, no, it would be like Australia is a desert. They don't ready. 36 years Suddenly, a giant like polar ice cap crashes. The flood comes your flood to a 36 year old submarine. It's a dream. We're all watching episodes of Seinfeld that they put on when they started. It's good news.Dan Ilic  8:06  It would be it'd be it'd be great. And I think people should, you know, we should go through some sort of constriction or conscription or some lottery to get on those submarines for when the end of the world is happening. That'd be great. There's 12 submarines and you know, they could go underwater forever. It'd be great to be on them.Zoë Coombs Marr  8:20  Honestly, what are they doing? Like nothing takes that long, like nothing takes because I say when you like make something it's like you can be it can be fast, cheap, or good. Like you can have two two of those. But not three, like this is slow and expensive and baby. Amazing. LikeSenator. Lidia Thorpe  8:41  the best thing ever.Concetta Caristo  8:42  What are they doing? I know what's that thing in sex where it's like you. You like do it a little bit a little bit. Little bit. So the climax is huge. What's that cold? That's happening people. Ladies and gentlemen, we are edging with some submarines. Yes, every love is gonna blow so hard when they release.Lewis Hobba  9:01  A bunch of segments just sitting there going.Dan Ilic  9:10  I believe in the Navy. It's called overreaching? Yeah, you're breaching? Yeah. Not as cool. As cool. Not as cool.Lewis Hobba  9:17  Because they're building them in South Australia on that. Yeah.Zoë Coombs Marr  9:21  Thank you so long.Lewis Hobba  9:25  My theory is they just using it to store a bunch of South Australian wine in 36 years. I'll just open the hatch and be like, aged and delicious.Dan Ilic  9:36  Surprise. Well, you know when this when the budget was first floated, it was around $50 billion. And then earlier this year blew up to 80 billion then some sometime between the beginning of this year and senate estimates it's blind out another 10 billion to $90 billion. I I can't help but think that we are all in the wrong guy.Unknown Speaker  10:00  dollars.Dan Ilic  10:01  That's a lot of dollars. Yeah.Concetta Caristo  10:03  It just made me think about you know, when like, a kid's done something wrong and then your parents like confront you. And you tell them little bit by little bit and the details just get more and more. It's like the problems getting worse. It just was like that. It's like now 50 all sorry, actually, I meant seven. No, it's actually at 100 million $2 billion. So sorry.Dan Ilic  10:21  It does sound a lot better if you are trying to threaten another country because $50 billion submarines doesn't cut it. But like if you tell China well, China, we've got some hundred billion dollar submarines. Stay away from now your radio.Zoë Coombs Marr  10:33  They only have 37 years to catch up.Lewis Hobba  10:41  Sorry, a couple of years ago about that Danish guy who murdered a person on his homemade submarine? No,Concetta Caristo  10:48  no. And why not?Lewis Hobba  10:51  It was maybe like 2017 or 2018. He was I think he was Danish. He was an inventor and he murdered a journalist cut up the body and spread it across the ocean came back in and it was like, Oh, she tripped and fell. And okay. Anyway, he's in prison. He tried. He met he escaped from prison. This week, he got out. And then they caught him and brought him back. All I'm saying is don't put him back. Bring him to Australia getting building submarines. You'll have them whipped up in a week.Zoë Coombs Marr  11:20  And she tripped and fell. You feel like for an inventor he'd be able to come up with a better excuse.Unknown Speaker  11:27  Minister, can you tell me when we will finally have all 12 boats operation? mid to late 2040s in the 2040sUnknown Speaker  11:35  nice in the 2050s as I say no? Yeah.Unknown Speaker  11:39  Okay, I'm sad. I'm telling you that. I'd say 20 5020 5072 the answers 2057 it says quote the seal is timeUnknown Speaker  11:46  this December 2054 Cenotaph 2054 This is our rational fear.Dan Ilic  11:52  This week. Second fear the six called World is mourning the loss of one of their leaders. This week, Catherine Nanda laid out the so called six called Nexium has been sentenced to 120 years in prison. Zoey, when you first told me about this story, I was shocked. I couldn't believe that anyone would join a sex cult started by a guy called case. What is what is? What is going on here?Zoë Coombs Marr  12:13  Well, it's incredible. So I was I was shocked that you hadn't heard of it, because I'm obsessed with it. This guy. So basically, if you don't if you're not familiar with it, basically Nexium is in a nutshell, it's like counterfeit Scientology mixed with Amway and like a teddy Mellencamp diet with SIG Slifer in it, and it's like, run by this guy who ran a bunch of pyramid schemes in the 90s. And then he started this, it's so complicated, but he started this self help thing that then it turned out that women were in this master slave pyramid scheme. And then we're actually getting branded, like literally, like, branded with cauterising arms on their bodies with his initials. And it's just, it's, it's, it's nuts. It's like, but it's also the daggy is cult you've ever heard of. Sorry, daggy it's like it's run by this improv guy. No, it's I mean, he just seems like yeah, another one of the guys doing improv for way too long. LetDan Ilic  13:22  me bring my initials. Yes. Let'sZoë Coombs Marr  13:27  see if the guy would like just as he's about to like bring out his acoustic guitar at a party and then goes like, you know, I won the Judo national championship.Unknown Speaker  13:39  Is everyone going?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  13:40  Yeah, right mate, they will letyou bring yourZoë Coombs Marr  13:46  name on to me. It's a while soDan Ilic  13:48  it is totally right. The name of the whole club is so weird Nexium it's spelt ni x VM, like some sort of Greek thing. It doesn't even sound like a call. It sounds like a piece of software, you're forced to log into it or call centre, like at a job you really hate.Unknown Speaker  14:03  Totally.Zoë Coombs Marr  14:05  And they have all these really terrible, terrible names. It's like, he used to run a pyramid scheme called consumer buy lines, byline, and then thing that was like vitamins that was like, National Health Organisation. And then their main scene was like, yeah, it's in ASP. It was like executive success programmes. It soundsSenator. Lidia Thorpe  14:26  like that we've written Yeah, but how boring HowDan Ilic  14:30  do people who are attracted to these boring things end up being sex lives? Is this just a is just an extension of what corporate culture? Is? We all people who work in corporations, are you? Are we all part of a cult?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  14:43  I think it's like, whatZoë Coombs Marr  14:43  I find fascinating about it is it's like one step. And then the next step and you just work out where people's line is. It's like the next logical step. And I think once people become immersed in a world then they just kind of go with it. It's like, like, for instance, I think about myself, right? Like I'm a lesbian. I'm very well immersed in That world but two days ago, my ex girlfriend messaged me and said, Hey, I, she's in the same queer parenting group as my other ex girlfriend. And I thought that's too gay, evensome people that might be like, a creepy guy. I want to listen to you going like, Oh yeah, authenticity is being yourself and I've found the meaning for the world and join my call. All the people it's getting these name branded on them, but they're all different.Dan Ilic  15:42  It's a big step. It's a big step from like having a meeting about your KPIs to coming in and getting your boss's initials branded on us very big. And where do you do? What's that? Hi, Cha meeting like like, Hey, hey, case study branded me. He's all yeah, that's part of the deal here. That's what you're gonnaLewis Hobba  15:58  know. It's coming for sexual harassment training. We will need to train you well to sexually harass eachUnknown Speaker  16:02  other. Yeah,Lewis Hobba  16:04  I found out about it. Because of the Smallville actress Allison Mack. Yes. Yes. Like mega famous.Senator. Lidia Thorpe  16:11  Yeah, I wasConcetta Caristo  16:12  so angry. I was so angry. I was like, okay, so being a famous actor isn't enough. You have that frickin board that you have to like, have this crazy secret stupid call with all this bullcrap. It made me so fierce. I was like, What the hell is up with rich people, it takes so much time what they're doing. I'm like, how did they get literally anything else done. I have one thing in my calendar this tonight I this all day, I was busy stressed just for this. I usually mean if I had to, like run a secret sex Hall and get your name on my ass. I mean, I just pass out. So I just was reallySenator. Lidia Thorpe  16:44  freaking out about that's partZoë Coombs Marr  16:46  of it. Like that's, I feel like I've really butchered the telling of this. Because it's so complex, there's so many layers of it. It's like they get them in and they're like, we're doing like a self help thing, we're gonna be better people. And then they like have all these different schemes. And then they the one of the things that they did in order to be kept. So they had a master slave pyramid, basically, and you only knew who your monster was, you didn't know who any of the other slaves are on your level, just them so they would miss it, you would have to message them if you wanted to eat. So you have toSenator. Lidia Thorpe  17:14  message them, likeZoë Coombs Marr  17:15  my ad calories master. And they would write back like yes, slave. And there was like literally like a game kind of thing that they did. And it's all these kind of things. But in order to get into that group, they had to give collateral what they call collateral, right? Which is like, literally just blackmail, though, just like give us something bad about yourself, like a nude picture or like a fact about your husband that if it came out, it'd be really bad. And so it's just like blackmail. Anyway, he's gonna go to jail for 120 years.Lewis Hobba  17:50  That's actually the craziest part that there's like a head of a sort of borderline religious organisation that's actually getting prosecuted possessed.Unknown Speaker  17:57  I know. I know.Lewis Hobba  18:02  I let him go.Unknown Speaker  18:06  This is a rational view.Dan Ilic  18:10  This makes that fair, Kim Kardashian turned 40. This is huge news for people on Instagram and young people, which is why we've got a token young person with us, Christo. Hello, can you fill us in? I assume I assume because America is in the grip of COVID-19 that Kim Kardashian West just had like a quiet night with the kids and candy and adopted sneakers.Concetta Caristo  18:29  Um, she absolutely did but on an absolutely private island with 40 of her best and closest COVID friends you know, this was so so I get to like I saw this blob on Twitter and here's the thing I'm like kim k the idea of her Stan I'm like okay, go up queen. I love the fat but like yes goals, but this I was like Kimmy you have let us down. Number one for being tone deaf. But number two, the dress that she's wearing in these pictures I have to say is fugly as hell. I was really disappointed in her. I was like, that looks like something you wear. I wore my year eight formal and it was bad. And I regret it. So that sort of is why I'm bringing this to the show youDan Ilic  19:10  said about her and you said about her making all of her friends go into quarantine and Flinders will private island and putting people at risk of that island who work too for COVID-19. And then the gross use of huge amounts of wealth. Why 230,000 Americans dying? You wouldn't upset about that you're upset aboutConcetta Caristo  19:29  No no, it's the dress. That's why I need people to understand that the dress was ugly. You need to go on Twitter to see the steps you will know I was It's so stupid. And what's the best part about it? People if you don't know is that it's like a big meme now on Twitter and people have been posting like the quote of what she said of being like, I know that this like is really not possible for a lot of people in the world. And that's why I'm so grateful. And it was like yeah, Queen it's impossible for 95% of the whole world. But thank you so much. much for sharing it with us. And I just love memes and I love to see those two things come together. Kim k means it's just going absolutely off.Lewis Hobba  20:07  But people like forget that, if you needed like a warning sign about where this was going her birthday last year was Kenny G. Trapped in the house surrounded by roses and candles, playing his saxophone while she walked around the house.Zoë Coombs Marr  20:28  He was forced to do that he was a memberConcetta Caristo  20:30  of celebrities when they pretend to be like us. We hate them when they just being themselves. We had them all the time. screw him. I just thought it was funny. That hashtag was this is 40. Like, she's like, this is okay. This is what 4040 he did. We don't know this is 40 is not for everyone.Zoë Coombs Marr  20:54  This is 40 I just got my floppy disk.Dan Ilic  20:59  Well, there's been calls for a federal ipecac. But I don't know if you know this. The federal government isn't into creating any kind of federal anti corruption commission, but they are doing something at leastVO  21:10  the Morison government has heard your calls for more accountability, scrutiny and transparency. That's why we're adding to the system of checks and balances to make sure Australia stays on the right path Introducing eyecare care. The Independent Commission Against Kerry and KennellyUnknown Speaker  21:26  point again, doesn't meanVO  21:28  I'm right. My cat cat will be just as effective as a national integrity commission but cheaper and more fun to watch during peak morning viewing. Every time our corruption goes public will give karianna high profile job then have a cancelled from that job with iconic x Spin Spin Spin nothing will distract the public more from sport roads. Angus Taylor's water deals and the wholesale takeover of the government by the fossil fuel lobby like an all considered misogynistic racially charged climate denying rent from a fighting star of the Golden Age of television. I was a television equivalent of a cockroach. I kecak. The Independent Commission Against Kerri Anne Kennerley guaranteeing at least one employed person has a job to nominate a job for CAC download the ICA CAC app today.Unknown Speaker  22:11  National Fair Murdoch uses news media nowadays basically just as a political propaganda you know it protects its friends and pushes the giant Barrow your fear is rational.Dan Ilic  22:24  It's been a bit of a strange wait for Victoria as lockdown restrictions were lifted for Melbourne much of the state was celebrating but for Jaguar and people and their supporters it's been a week of anguish and mourning is a sacred 300 year old ancestral tray was kept down for a highway. Joining us now is senator Lydia Thor but jarbo woman herself, whose mum Marjorie Thorpe is fighting state governments roadworks on country in the Victorian Supreme Court. Senator thank you for joining us. It's been a bit of a sad week for you has it been?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  22:53  Ah yeah, so has quite a big day today. In our country today I've been at the site it's quite incredible to know last time I was there sending me those trays out in the open around a fire and enjoying everyone's Company and today I go there and it's surrounded by wire fencing and and lots of big, very big men in very big hive is bit strutting their stuff. So yeah, it was a completely different saying that I will seem to today.Dan Ilic  23:28  Yeah, hive is is like the Redcoats of 2020.Senator. Lidia Thorpe  23:34  Well, yeah.They were certainly there and using their powers and the high boots was was going off today. Because, yeah, they weren't letting anyone Nia as sacred trees out beautiful birthing train, which is 800 years old. And our grandfather tree, which is just as old, we weren't able to access that today. It's been completely fenced off. And that was really sad. How didDan Ilic  24:05  your mom go today with the, with the ruling with the supreme court?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  24:12  Well, she did an incredible job. And we're now got a injunction which lasts until the 19th of November at 4:30pm. So it gives us a little bit of a reprieve and a chance to you know, strategize and plan our next move and continue to keep the pressure on and hopefully, if we say more lifting of the COVID restrictions, then we can get more people out there on the ground. I haven't spoken to mom I've tried to call her but she's too busy to talk to me.Dan Ilic  24:55  That's super interesting. What kind of strategy Do you think you can put in place between now and the non tank To change the course of the state government,Senator. Lidia Thorpe  25:03  well, we've just got to mobilise people as best way we can in, you know, under the COVID restrictions. And that's always a challenge. But that would be the, you know, I think we've mobilised a lot of people in this last week. That way, also need, you know, the strategies that we can use in Parliament for state and federal parliament. And there's also other legal avenues that we can take through the courts. So we're just going through all of that at the moment. And we'll come out fighting even stronger and harder, with many, many more people behind us, when you and your green greens colleagues took a motion to the floor and in the Victorian Parliament to kind of raise questions about the destruction of the tray. You mentioned in your case last week that you would get that right, you actually did in, in Parliament. So, so bringing this up? Well, apparently, so I'm not in the Victorian Parliament. I'm now in the federal parliament as a senator. So that was actually taken to the Victorian Parliament. And yes, say they were and I watched that, that we've, Sam hiddens, asking questions of the premier yesterday, I think. And yeah, you know, we're treated like a joke. It's just not we're not taken seriously, even the non Aboriginal people asking the questions in the parliament, taken seriously. So I don't know whether the government and the opposition think that this is a joke. They obviously haven't been to the area or understand or even given the time to learn about the stories and the connection, I'm sure that they have families and their children would really appreciate that, and give them a true identity to the nation that has the oldest continuing living culture. Right here.Dan Ilic  26:56  When do you think our leaders will wake up to the fact that Aboriginal history is the history of this country? And then there will be at least some kind of motive some of respect for it?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  27:08  Oh, well, we've been waiting a long time. So far. We're very patient, people we are. And we're very forgiving, and conciliatory people, I think. And, you know, I think people are becoming more aware, and more open to learning, I really don't know, I think that they probably need to check out their privilege check out, you know, how they can decolonize just a little, just to open up this country to what it truly ease. And that is a caring country with beautiful landscapes and beautiful people and connections and stories, not something that you just read in a book or watch on a television programme, it's actually something that is still very live, and well today. And hopefully, they get to say that and look, in the short time that I've been a politician. I've had those yards with other politicians on both sides of the fence. And they've come around, and they've been far more respectful and far more open to listening and learning from us. So, you know, I have hope that we can do that and change the nation. That's what I'd like to say, anyway, I can share,Unknown Speaker  28:23  do you feel likeDan Ilic  28:26  a tokenizing? It was a young person. Do you feel like that the place to live that young people are much more attuned to Aboriginal culture as Australian culture than even people? 10 years older than you?Concetta Caristo  28:40  I think yes. Like, I think, you know, it's something that when I think about young people, it's like, we're more aware, we're more accepting, we're more like, keen to understand and like things change. So quickly, do you want any more as I feel like, you tend to feel with older generations, they can feel, they don't want to listen, they're stuck in their ways, and that kind of thing. Like, it's young people that can and want to mobilise that, like, in people younger than me that like inspire me and a learning and understanding why it's so important and like not something that you can just, you know, take as a joke, like the government is or not take it seriously or forget about it or anything like that. Senator, doLewis Hobba  29:21  you want to ask question, this might be a bit practical, but as someone who didn't wasn't in Victorian wasn't aware that this destruction was going to happen until until it happened. It seems crazy to me that it's a road like this can turn you know that you can you can turn around this is not an immovable project. What's the logic that they have here for not doing this?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  29:42  Wow, that's a good question. There. There were many alternatives put to the government which they did not want to entertain one of their own growth employees. In fact, I agreed with one of the alternative routes and I'm not sure whether that person still has a job or not. So You know that there were alternatives. And it's not the chapter on people want to stop anyone fixing the road to make it safer for people. It's not like jump around, people don't want the the highway to be widened. But we just wanted to sit down and negotiate a way where we could protect significant cultural heritage and have a road and keep people safe. But that was never afforded to jump around people. And they can say that they've consulted through their processes and all of that. But that simply has just not happened.Dan Ilic  30:36  Senator, have you pitched at all a series of $90 billion submarines to ferry cars?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  30:47  Well, you know, the Minister, Susan lies of the federal government, in fact, at particular satellite in the same way that she declined protecting Jefferson country. So that's where people are at in terms of our politicians. And that's what we have to try. Try quartermaine who's an Aboriginal comedian, he said on Facebook this week, he said Australians won't realise what they've lost until they see the avatar sequels. And I thought that wasDan Ilic  31:20  that was really sad, but a really great jogSenator. Lidia Thorpe  31:23  and look on the avatar film and and I thought,Unknown Speaker  31:31  it looks like it wasDan Ilic  31:33  so special. Yeah, it was crazy. So we'd like it. What Lewis said before was so interesting. Like, as someone who lives in so called Sydney, I had no idea this was happening until you know, it was far too late. And it's so it's sad that this moment has had to happen for us to be awakened to this cultural moment right now, and perhaps a lot more of Australia know what's happening on jabber on country. And we can we can pitch in to help some somehow,Senator. Lidia Thorpe  31:58  yeah, look, it's a bit like George Floyd, hey, Black Lives Matter and took a black man in another country, to be killed by police, for this country to wake up and realise that we have a problem here. So I just think that you know, to mature as a nation, we really need to start telling the truth, and learn our history, so that we can move forward together. Senator, thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear tonight. My absolute pleasure, thank you very much.Dan Ilic  32:30  Well, that is all we have time for a rational for rational view tonight. big thank you to send a linear thought and a big everlasting thanks to a fee among us tonight. Zoe foster Blake.Unknown Speaker  32:44  Like extra knowledge,Dan Ilic  32:48  terms, ma Do you guys have anything to plug sorry, do you want if you want to plug anything? I'm doing aZoë Coombs Marr  32:56  couple of shows in real life in Sydney as part of the two queres festival a giant dwarf coming up so that's, I think, like the 14th and maybe 12 to the 14th of November.Dan Ilic  33:08  And if you have stand be shuttle hook at Zoe's stand lockdown special No, I mean that the stand up specials on prime a good toe but this the lockdown special is particularly particularly off the wall and just a genius bit of content that I've ever seen in my entire life. So check to check that out from consider DoConcetta Caristo  33:34  you want to plug anything? I have no shows like sorry, but I'll lean into being a young person and plug sort of my socials if you want to follow me on Instagram. It's concetto worldwide, and Twitter congenic Christo and sort of watch me go off there live every day.Dan Ilic  33:51  And Lewis you wanna plug anything?Lewis Hobba  33:52  No, dad save all still doing radio. If you don't need to listen.To the show today you would have heardSenator. Lidia Thorpe  34:09  that was me.Dan Ilic  34:14  This episode was produced by Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline contributions from our supporters via discord include Peter McNeil, David green, Peter Lola Dave bluestein Maddy Palmer also big thanks to red Mike's Bertha Foundation, go neutral. Our Patreon supporters like you and please like share, subscribe and rate and all that stuff. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of good diet.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutralTalking Aus Post CEO's $12000 Cartier Watches, Chris Pratt, and the New Zealand Election with freshly elected Greens MP Teanau TuionoNina OyamaGreta Lee-JacksonLewis HobbaDan Ilic+ Teanau Tuiono Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round, and Maddie Palmer, Adam Boys, Killian David, Cam WilliamsTRANSLATION BY OTTER.AIUnknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Unknown Speaker  0:04  Jay Lewis. Hello, Daniel, howDan Ilic  0:06  are you? Excellent. We've got a brand new streaming system. It's very exciting. I just want to quickly say big thanks to our Patreon supporters, Chris ebeling and Tim Chima who signed up this week. To support Patreon supporters, you can go to patreon.com for slash irrational fear. Another way you can support a rational fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 sticker. Go neutral will carbon offset 3.5 tonnes which is incredible. And then five bucks comes to us and since we've started the partnership, Louis, we have actually gotten 11 people to offset the carbon emissions from their car. That's 38 tonnes of carbon thanks to this podcast gone.Lewis Hobba  0:45  That is amazing. Fixed. Take that Paris accord.Dan Ilic  0:51  We do have about 3000 people that do listen to this. So you know if they all did it, we'd be able to pull out you know, 10,000 tonnes of carbon.Lewis Hobba  0:59  That's great. That's really great. And then we just made enough money to be able to afford a zoo membership and then we'll be all good.Dan Ilic  1:05  To go neutral. Click on the links in the show notes. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the your nation, sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's stop the shark.ALAN JONES  1:17  A Russian mafia contains naughty words like bricks can bro fed gum and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:30  Tonight, a New Yorker writer was suspended of allegations of masturbating on a zoom call but according to insiders, he was just after a race. And ABC journalist Laura tingle is supposed to apologise after labelling Scott Morrison smug on Twitter, because ABC editorial style insists that when labelling the Prime Minister smug it must be followed by and with the launch of the new Sacha Baron Cohen movie today, Health Authority is a warning that ball rat voice will begin to spread When asked if bore at voice had infected anyone yet a senior health official answered my wife. It's Friday the 23rd of October and everything is very dies. This is irrational fear.Looking irrational fear. I'm your host former Vatican City Cardinal Denny let's let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's a writer, performer, comedian, director. You may know her from her appearances on utopia to nightly and the chaser podcast. Or you may have just seen her jokes about common social media. It's Nina ayama. Hello, welcome Nina. How's it going? Oh, it's great. It's really great to have you. I didn'tNina Oyama  2:45  know who was gonna be like I was like waiting for the credits or else it was good. LikeUnknown Speaker  2:52  Who is it? Who is it?Dan Ilic  2:55  It's pretty much the same. She's one of Australia's funniest people though. She was born in New Zealand, but thankfully she's chosen one of our people to breed with. From tonight lay and drunk history. It's comedian satirist and filmmaker. grittily Jackson,Greta Lee-Jackson  3:07  Daniel Lewis tonight NainaUnknown Speaker  3:10  it's great to have you.Lewis Hobba  3:12  And it's a we feel I feel particularly Brady Bunch today. I think normally with like our old zoom system when we could afford it. It was like much more in line. And now we're all in a little box together and I feel like we just need AliceNina Oyama  3:29  you've never you've never graduated to grid mode Lewis there was no way you can you can have a Brady Bunch look on zoom toUnknown Speaker  3:39  I don't want to know about options. You know what I mean? INina Oyama  3:42  really I'm the opposite. I'm out here changing my background, you know, causing causing a ruckus changing my screen name to stupid slot and then going into a work meeting.Lewis Hobba  3:54  Yeah, you should work at the New Yorker.Nina Oyama  3:57  than that, no, I would have to take my screen. I'm just stupid, ya know,Lewis Hobba  4:08  tilting the camera down and putting your head down. It is a real Giuliani situation. You're gonna have to you're gonna have to,Unknown Speaker  4:16  sorry, sorry, I thought I was on mute.Dan Ilic  4:22  Coming up, we have to face in fees, but also a little later on. We're gonna be talking to Tiana Tiana. He's a greens MP who just want to sit in the New Zealand election at Palmerston North. It's going to be exciting. We're gonna be asking him why New Zealand labour insists on spelling their name correctly, and how we can all move to New Zealand. But first of all, I don't know if you've seen this. Alan Jones is back in the news. Not only did he go on Sky this weekend has it covered. 19 was an epidemic but he's actually suing our friends at the feed. Have you guys seen this? for defamation? Yeah. Do you guys want to sign anything or just leave it up to meUnknown Speaker  5:00  On this well,Dan Ilic  5:01  Alan Jones had something to say about this a little earlier on this week.ALAN JONES  5:09  Good morning, everyone. Yes, it is true. I'm suing SPS for defamation. What he you asked SPS. You can be defamed if there's any three people watching TV and they can't speak English. I totally agree with you. They're hypothetical Lister. But their little skit went on the internet with a potential audience of 7 billion in the videos so called comedian Alex Lee portrayed me as a misogynist, racist and a liar. Now Miss Lee who happens to be an Asian woman Mind you, is totally wrong. Let me tell you something, just because I go around saying misogynistic things doesn't make me a misogynist. Whatever sojourners insist that a woman Prime Minister be put in a chat bag and be thrown out to say yes, but also can someone who isn't a misogynist suggest that too unlikely, but it's a possibility. And just because I incited the largest ever race riot in Australian history, it doesn't make me a racist. If anything, I'm pro race, more races the barrier. I have a long history of loving races, particularly the Everest, the richest horse race in Australia. And let me tell you, just because I constantly lie about climate change doesn't make me a liar. I'm telling you my truth and my truth is the opposite of whatever the facts are. If the scientists say it's climate change, they're wrong. If the medical experts say it's a pandemic, they're wrong. If the views ecologists say that Anthony Claire is overrated, they are so wrong. What a voice. So let this be a warning to any tree hugging comedians out there. If I'm a racist, misogynist liar, then my name isn't Alan Jones. I'm Alan Jones.Dan Ilic  6:46  There we go. Alan Jones, thank you very much.Nina Oyama  6:48  You haven't been sued for your impersonation of Alan Jones. Maybe your entire career did and and he just hasn't given a fuck I've been trying. That's theDan Ilic  6:59  only way I can get listeners to this podcast is to be sued and no one's done it. It's terrible. It's terrible. Well, let's get on with the fears first fear tonight. Yesterday, it said it estimates the CEO of Australia Post admitted that she gave for senior staff watches valued at $3,000 each, because they worked very hard. The CFO couldn't confirm if the gifts were purchased on the company credit card but he could confirm they didn't pay for postage. Executives need to watch till the time for many executives of Australia Post The time is to shred documents. That's what says on their watch. While you're in if you ever are in an Australia Post, so you actually don't need a watch because it's always 1998 that's that's how you know. I don't know if you've been to a post office lately. You could be forgiven. They just kind of had them lying around. I don't know it's not inconceivable that these watches could have been found among the Andre rieu action figures and Kerri Anne Kennerley foot massages. Also you have to feel for Australia Post to the appropriate Thank you gifts of this calibre hard to find after all, Amazon was sold out of parcels of land rezoned for the Western Sydney Airport this week. So it's a bit disappointing. Sophie mangas is getting a $3,000 watch as a thank you gift acceptable if you work for organisation that's owned by the government, Louis harbour,Lewis Hobba  8:15  I'd like to jump in on that one. Absolutely not more should do it. I cannot stress it off that even more government organisations should be giving their employees $3,000 watches I I don't necessarily want to say who but I if anyone wants to do it the IBC is there and INina Oyama  8:37  just have something to do with you currently working for a government organisationLewis Hobba  8:41  all upside is there's nothing on this wrist you know it's going a little hungry. Lonely needs a car ta that's Yeah, I guess millionairesNina Oyama  8:53  watching right now.Unknown Speaker  8:58  Why don't you just use the phone.Dan Ilic  9:00  I'm with you Grand Ole Jackson die. It was really great on Twitter today. One of the people who run social media for Australia Post had a bit of a sense of humour and he was dealing with a dealing with some sort of complaint said I'm very light rested today. That is really nice.Lewis Hobba  9:15  They should have just yeah usually in like tech startups they give you stocks and bonds or whatever like they give you shares in the company. They should have given him $3,000 worth of stamps.Nina Oyama  9:26  That's right and like a lot rested as well to go back to an earlier story.Dan Ilic  9:32  And not just any stamps I should give you like first proof stamps that go up in value then they can get they can absolutely do that. They can absolutely someLewis Hobba  9:39  of those weird coins that they always have tucked up the back you know like Kieran Perkins is first steps thisDan Ilic  9:48  in question to him today Scott Morrison said the CEO of Australia should stand aside which he has But why? Which is like the he got so outraged. It was so strange to see him get outraged about 12,000 dollars but he didn't get outraged at all about sports rots.Lewis Hobba  10:04  That's why he asked her to leave. It's like, if you get a roll, roll it big goDan Ilic  10:08  big go go, hon. Yeah, if you're gonna roll it, you know, have a gasoline recovery, a stamp led recovery would be fine.Lewis Hobba  10:16  If you just invest if you just give like a couple of million dollars to a coalition state to build a women's change room for a sports team that does not have a women's team. Okay? watches that Time's up.Unknown Speaker  10:29  Turn on cnn.Unknown Speaker  10:31  COVID COVID COVID COVID COVID you know why they're trying to?ALAN JONES  10:37  People aren't buying at CNN, youUnknown Speaker  10:40  know, fear is rational.Dan Ilic  10:42  Last weekend on Twitter, the internet decided that out of the full shirtless rich white men named Chris in Hollywood. Chris Pratt was the worst coming in behind Chris Pine, Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth. All the celebs you can imagine came out to defend Chris Pratt against the joke name it forced the Avengers to once again combined on Twitter to defend his honour. In the next round, though, prep will have to go up against Chris Lilley, Christopher Pyne, Chris Brown and Dr. Chris Brown. Now Nina is dumping on Chris Pratt worth it?Nina Oyama  11:12  Yes, yes. I think he's reaction was dumb as hell also Can I just say Dr. Chris Brown would totally be the best Chris in that second line up that you said. Um, I think my thing is like, it was the worst crease out of four Chris's you just the fourth best, Chris. Why is everyone so angry? It's quite a good thing to be the fourth best because and you're already is like a show. It's not even the most hated Chris. Like there's a show called Everybody Hates Chris. And it's about Chris Rock. Yeah. And the fact of about so angry about Chris that I don't understand. I think it's just fragile egos to be honest.Lewis Hobba  11:52  Can you imagine though like being being one of those Chris's spending your life going? I just want to be an actor to be a famous actor. I want to be a Hollywood star. And then you finally do. And you're one of the most famous people in the world, but you're still not even the most famous Chris. Like it must be so annoying that they all came up at the same time. Like Chris Pratt is a fucking global mega star. He is like he's a Jurassic Park superstar. And he's not they're not voting.Nina Oyama  12:23  But they're not voting on fame dead death voting on like best as in like best personality. I think that could be good reason is because Chris Pratt is a known Republican. And that's why everyone's dunking on him because he's a slightly undecided political views.Dan Ilic  12:39  Yeah, there's it's very, it's very polemic over there. They're all like dirt dunking on him because he's at Hillsong. And his, you know, talk about how sales on LGBT friendly.Nina Oyama  12:49  They have conversion camps.Dan Ilic  12:51  And he's dunking on Chris Pratt, because he didn't go to a Biden fundraiser where all the other single Avengers went to this Biden fundraiser. So it's real. It but he doesn't actually he's not very overtly pro Republican. He's just kind of just drives a truck and shoots animals.Nina Oyama  13:09  Oh, I mean, yeah, I was gonna say I've been to his Instagram for research, definitely not sexual purposes. But I was truly shocked at the amount of guns and stuff like that. I was like, oh, oh, it doesn't fit with his character from Parks and Rec. And that's when everyone knows him from and he's this adorable puppy dog type character. That's what people have said to probably they're like, How can that be the same person is that they can't separate the actor from the character. I think it's because he got skinny is because he used to be a fat Democrat. Any Republican, that's what happenswhen you become a right winger,Lewis Hobba  13:47  he was zero, Doc 30. Right. So I feel like people should just try to watch that over and over again and be like, hey, kills staple. Oh, hey, killed Osama Bin Ladin, so he should be a national hero as well. Yeah.Dan Ilic  13:59  Very, very difficult. Very, very difficult. But no one hikes like you can't people must be able to separate the character from the person because nobody ever don't dunk on Ben Mendelsohn. I mean, he plays every single evil person ever bad.Unknown Speaker  14:14  Yeah, he does. He does a good body Commando. What are his political views?Greta Lee-Jackson  14:22  Do I have to fight?Lewis Hobba  14:25  I also how good is like Chris Hemsworth at the moment, he basically just travelled without a passport. Like I feel like every time I open the news, like Chris Chris Hemsworth is in Tasmania like was no one's allowed in Tasmania? I just feel like Chris Hemsworth is can just show up anyway. Definitely in Australia if not the world and no one would ask the question of him just like please go striker.Nina Oyama  14:48  Oh, up a bang out about like, all the time is hot privilege. He's got hot privilege. Yeah. And that picture of him with a baby. In fact, I don't think that he has a possible I just think he has a he Baby and he just brings it and you just say a man that hot with a kid that cute and you just your ovaries melt your testicles melt it doesn't matter what what sexuality you identify as it's just you let him on the planeDan Ilic  15:13  Louis ever since you had your your your your jaw fixed. Have you ever noticed that you have hot privilege because you would have a definite before and after?Lewis Hobba  15:22  Yes, Dan. Doors open for me as you can tell.Nina Oyama  15:27  Have you had your joy fix Louis?Lewis Hobba  15:29  Yeah, I had a well, I this was likeDan Ilic  15:33  last year he looked like Christopher Pratt, but, like in 2001. But now he looks like Chris Hemsworth is prettyLewis Hobba  15:41  cool. Yeah, yeah.No, I have exactlyNina Oyama  15:45  the same for what it's worth just.Lewis Hobba  15:52  Yeah, see Dan, as you can tell the hot privilege.David Barnden  15:56  I'm still getting dunked on by NATO.Unknown Speaker  15:59  Rational fear. I was always getting in trouble for getting naked. They're like you can't just pull your dick out. I was like,Unknown Speaker  16:05  this isUnknown Speaker  16:05  a rational view.Dan Ilic  16:07  It's time for a feature interview. I interview a guest tonight on irrational fear has a brand new job after years of campaigning and working at NGOs all over the world supporting indigenous peoples as of this week, Tiana to you know, is now an elected representative for the greens party in New Zealand representing Palmerston North. He's also a father of four. It's a real privilege to have him on the show because he stayed up like to be on killer app. Tiana.Unknown Speaker  16:34  Congrats.Teanau Tuniono  16:39  Thanks for having me. I'm sick. I'm day four on the job he literally did on Saturday night. Yeah.Nina Oyama  16:45  How are you gonna say I'm on day four of a bender.Teanau Tuniono  16:52  Day for parliamentary Binda. Yeah. I've just landed from from a big long campaign that was that was going on. We did part of it for lockdown. And then it got extended for another four weeks. So it was like a bit of a long haul. But um, yeah, we've got 10 green MPs. And we're hoping to get a 20 get my buddy Steve Abel and from Greenpeace. So special boats go away, we'll hit the limit. Hey, can you give us a little bit of a rundown about how the differences between NZ and OC politics in in like a sentence or a paragraph in politics from here and it looks like one of the great mysteries of the university. I mean, we've got a MMP system here. And so it's so you have people that run for electorates. And then you have there's a proportion set aside for all party for Pat for a party list. So all the green employees we came in on pilotless so we got 7.5% simple, it's something rather pricy another boat, and mate got us 10 and it goes to the MPs. Because you guys got state. I mean, you got federal and stuff like they've already got one house. Yeah. Yeah, right.Nina Oyama  18:08  Now, my theory on the difference between us and Australian politics is that I'm not us. So New Zealand, in Australian politics, is that people in New Zealand are just generally nicer and better people. And they elect good people because of that. That sounds legit to me.Lewis Hobba  18:23  I wish I could just be re watching it watching like the latest debate was. I mean, I know that you weren't involved. But it was such a stark contrast to the rest of the world. It was it was just a bunch of people agreeing with each other like this is less contentious than a year nine debate in Australia. This is outrageous.Teanau Tuniono  18:43  People in New Zealand could have been betteractually had the privilege of being we had our first Modi said Modi Modi is the indigenous language about it on his own. So I had the privilege of being in our first the first ever televised multi language election debate. So it's all I'm all in Mali. And that was good because it had like, a had a real different kind of feel to it. Because it was because we had to let them be observed, you know, protocol and stuff like that. So we were, we were I would say pull but but I'm very indigenous with each other. So it was it was a New Zealand First and I was like I was really stoked to be part of that.Dan Ilic  19:24  And that's really awesome that didn't one of our listeners asked the question they asked why doesn't New Zealand embrace the democracy sausage? Are you aware of this cultural phenomenon around around Australians electionTeanau Tuniono  19:37  workers exhausted so we don't bother with the Trump's.Dan Ilic  19:41  When we when we go and vote, we end up getting a sausage sizzle at the community hall or whatever right after and that's a symbolism of about democracy. But apparently that doesn't happen in NZ. Do you know what?Teanau Tuniono  19:56  I could do my careerNo, that's not a thing for us. Okay,Lewis Hobba  20:05  now tell us are there any snacks at all?Teanau Tuniono  20:10  When I bought it, it was very snake free?Dan Ilic  20:14  would have been good. Let's talk about the biggest question here the labour majority, it's been a big, incredible win for labour, how do you think, as a greens member, you'll be able to keep them accountable.Teanau Tuniono  20:27  The vast majority of the seats in an MP MP system they are they're the first party to actually achieve a majority of seats. So it's your territory for us and, and within this political system as well. So all the cards are all on the table for them, you know, they've got all the cards. But you know, we've got our we've got our policy priorities around, you know, like, taking ambitious climate action, and showing that we do the best for people who are underneath the under the poverty line. And making sure that as we move through the COVID crisis that you know, there's the climate crisis and the crisis of biodiversity and across all of that the crisis of inequality so we've got our things that we need to keep pushing on as well. My guess is we can work together that that would be raised that we would but yeah, New Zealand IDan Ilic  21:20  got to do. nz labour seems to be kind of on the front foot no global leaders if you like when it comes to climate change and climate action. In Australia, we're barely managing to do that to do anything that resembles anything looks like climate action, instead is one of the few countries that is kind of committed to net zero by 2050. Australia is doing net zero perhaps maybe by 2300 it's looking like how do you think New Zealand can apply pressure to its neighbours like Australia to takeTeanau Tuniono  21:50  just is it but um, but you know, we look as we can with labour in the last time we did measure we measure quite a few things I've highlighted the zero carbon levels, what he talked about, which is that putting that framework in place, but understand that it's just the beginning you have the framework, then you've actually got to do the work ramp up your your your climate ambition, particularly for us in the area of agriculture. And we also had the ban of new permits on offshore oil drilling as well which is really really important. divestment assessment and Kiwi saver in terms of those those those companies invest in fossil fuels as well. So these these are these are really concrete things that we have achieved. But in terms of pressureNina Oyama  22:33  suggestion, um, if for applying pressure to government Look, I'm not one I don't usually I don't think countries invading other countries is usually a good idea, but um, would you ever just considered just like fully invading Australia and just take just taken the fuck over? Because I just think you guysLewis Hobba  22:53  need help out, we'd like leaving.Teanau Tuniono  22:55  Yeah, maybe I'll mention that you sitNina Oyama  23:00  here and just sort of suggest just a casual war. Like,please be on board. But I'll defect, I'll defect. It isDan Ilic  23:10  kind of interesting, because we all can't move to New Zealand like we'd like to, but maybe New Zealand could just make Australia and New Zealand that way. You know, we'd all be New Zealanders.Nina Oyama  23:21  That could be a great phrase make Australia, New Zealand again.Teanau Tuniono  23:27  That's gonna be willing toDan Ilic  23:31  tell us a bit about your background and things that you're really passionate about, and why you kind of got into politics after years of working in activism.Teanau Tuniono  23:39  Yeah, well, it may not fished activists and I might be the last activist tip of joining the greens. I mean, it's actually part of our tradition, our proud tradition. I was on the board of Greenpeace previously before this as well. And I've worked at the climate change negotiations, I was at the UN Paris for the Paris Climate treaty, for example. My background is in law and of the intersection of indigenous peoples and the environment for a very long time. I've come up to Australia actually quite a few times with with Aboriginal activists that sum it up to borroloola, where they've been organised against the uranium mine up there as well, but the MacArthur river, so it got some long standing relationships with some some good folks up that way. It's just been my life. And some of the activists will cease to be an activist as I get olderUnknown Speaker  24:31  screen anymore.Teanau Tuniono  24:34  Something that doesn't require that much movement. EvenUnknown Speaker  24:39  after a tree, that's cool. That'sTeanau Tuniono  24:44  the guy Steve Abel, who was just happy to be here actually. They were trying to cut down some trees up in Oakland and he was up a tree in the middle of the campaign, trying to save some native trees.Nina Oyama  24:55  Well, that puts me to shame I'm a big click to vist I like to share on Facebook. Is thereDan Ilic  25:00  the hype that they reach people? If there's a petition Naina will be there to support that petition? I don't know to know, like there's some there's been a good precedent of the newly minted politicians jumping in the activist game like AOC, jumping into that sunrise movement campaign, and Nancy Pelosi is office in her first few months, I mean, that you can do it and what actions are you going to be doing in the next few months?Teanau Tuniono  25:26  in the planning stage at the moment, like seeing what, what formation the government will actually hear, right. And then it's about sort of putting those priorities and chairs, all the stuff that we campaigned on. And the things that we can get over the line are the things we can get over the line, the things that we can't get when we have campaign mode, that's how I see it. That's, that's, that's all the things, because, you know, we've got, like, if you look at the quality with people losing their jobs and stuff like that, making sure that there is enough there for people so that people have all everything that they need, in terms of housing, and food and all that kind of stuff, and how that actually filters down and support sub children, but also their families and communities. Their stuff for me is really important. Well, Deanna, thank you so much for joining us in irrational fear. It's really great. I've written you slogan for your next next run.Dan Ilic  26:18  It's not what you know, it's DNA.Lewis Hobba  26:32  It was a real pleasure to me and I as a yet quite I'm sure you could tell from our tone. We're all very jealous of your whole country. What you've done. Yeah.Teanau Tuniono  26:42  I've been coming to sharlie weekend with like, ever collectibles for over 20 years, my good mates. And Australia surprises me with the large number of really progressive people over there. And then there as the number of people livethat part of the spectrum as well. Yeah.Nina Oyama  27:06  Yeah. It's like what you can get done and what you can achieve in a country without a stranglehold of the Murdoch press.Lewis Hobba  27:11  Yeah,Nina Oyama  27:12  well, that doesn't exist, you know. Yeah. I know. They always talk about silent majority as being conservative, but I reckon they're actually progressive.Unknown Speaker  27:21  Yeah,Lewis Hobba  27:22  yeah. Did you wish to speak up?Dan Ilic  27:25  is trying that's what I mean. That's one of the things that always goes on about saying that she'd never get elected if she was if she was in Australia and she just give up politics because because the price would make it too hard to operate. Yeah, but I think like what how New Zealand is really tackling the challenges of fossil fuel subsidies and and that kind of stuff as well is so important, and really takes the power out of out of fossil fuels inside parliament, which we don't have. Our government is pretty much an extension of the fossil fuel lobby.Teanau Tuniono  28:01  Yeah, I noticed it's Yeah, it's no good.All the other issues as well.Lewis Hobba  28:14  You're on board before youwill kick in eventually.Dan Ilic  28:20  Yes. Yeah. No, we didn't do one Kiwi accent joy this this. Big thanks to our fear mongers tonight. Nina Yama, Gridley Jackson Lewis haba. And Tiana to know thank you so much for joining us.Unknown Speaker  28:35  Thanks for having us.Dan Ilic  28:36  Thank you guys. Do you guys have Do you guys have anything Deployment Manager in a plug? Anything?Lewis Hobba  28:44  Good is like to plug any baby. Great One. Really good babyDan Ilic  28:48  manager wanna plug anything?Nina Oyama  28:50  Ah, the chase report podcast drops every Thursday or Friday, depending on what we feel like.Dan Ilic  28:58  gretta while you're breastfeeding, do you want to plug anything?Nina Oyama  29:03  Quiet and then I was like, Thanks, Dad.Greta Lee-Jackson  29:10  Kitty could sayUnknown Speaker  29:15  Teddy.Unknown Speaker  29:19  What a beautiful fella. And Tiana Tiana, do you want to plug anything?Teanau Tuniono  29:23  Oh, yeah. Shout out to all the social justice and environmental environmental activists over the Australia.Lewis Hobba  29:33  Your gates unlocked on a date as yet to be specified.Dan Ilic  29:41  Louis, anything.Lewis Hobba  29:45  Please Yeah, we will. Not end same old same old for me.Dan Ilic  29:49  Excellent. big thank you to Maddie Palma, Adam boys Kilian, David Kim Williams, Kiran castellina. And of course, Jakob round on the tech and tepanyaki timeline. Big thanks to rod marks the birth of foundation going yearold Patreon supporters, and until next week, there's always scared of goodTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/GoNeutralhttp://bit.ly/GoNeutralIf you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with here: Thrilled to bring you this month’s Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation.Every 4 weeks on the A Rational Fear feed, Linh Do and I (Dan Ilic) present a climate news update and a long-form conversation with leader in climate action. This month’s chat is excellent.Two very different brains leading climate conversations in their own powerful way.Osher Gunsberg (The Bachelor / Better Than Yesterday Podcast) and Mike Canon-Brookes (Atlassian / SunCable)Osher is using his celebrity to draw his broad audience to his podcast where he has meaningful conversations about climate anxiety and climate action.And Mike is using his own personal wealth and huge influence in the business community to drive innovation and wedge government into climate action.Great chat, an honour to speak with them both in the same Zoom call.Cheers,Dan IlicThe first 8minutes of the conversation sound a bit rubbish because I forgot to hit record on my Rodecaster, so we had to use the audio from the Zoom recording which isn’t as high fidelity. So bear with us, it does get better.A NOTE ON AUDIO: Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round,TRANSCRIPT BY OTTER.AI BELOW:Unknown Speaker 0:00This podcast is supported in part by the birther foundationDan Ilic 0:04to the greatest moral podcast of our generation joining me of course as she does for every one of these special greatest moral podcasts of our generations is lindow fellow Bertha Fela gaylinLinh Do 0:15Hello, hello, Iris. So good to be back.Dan Ilic 0:18This is our second greatest moral podcast of our generation. A huge thank you to everyone who listened to our Kevin Rudd episode, I think had a lot of good feedback from that, particularly around people who love the nitty gritty of climate backstabbing.Linh Do 0:31Yeah, the interview was amazing. And I think it just makes me even more eager to wait for when those cabinet files get released. You know, I'll be one of those geeks eagerly awaiting exactly what happened and will finally know who was the liar after all.Dan Ilic 0:46This of course, is out on the irrational fear feed every month we bring you an in depth conversation about climate change with climate legends and a little bit more about who is on our podcast a little later on. But first of all, a big thank you to our new irrational fear Patreon members including Nick with a K Lysa Yeager, Shelly Carr Simone Kevin and Tim Stevenson chipping in to help irrational fear jump to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear to support the podcast another way to spot irrational fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 sticker go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the average yearly emissions for a car and then five bucks that comes to us to go neutral. Click on the link in the show notes. I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land and your nation's sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show. DespiteUnknown Speaker 1:33global warming, rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.Unknown Speaker 1:44This is calledUnknown Speaker 1:45Don't be fright, the heat waves and droughts greatest mass extinction when facing a manmade disaster, podcast, climateUnknown Speaker 1:58shiana rationUnknown Speaker 2:01all of this with global warmingUnknown Speaker 2:02and a lot of it's a hoax. But write a small podcast about generation.Unknown Speaker 2:09For sure.Dan Ilic 2:10All right, listen, let's get into our climate news for this week. Story number one, Australia joins the US China and Russia in refusing to sign our latest pledge on biodiversity. Is this any kind of surprise that we are with the US Russia and China on this lid?Linh Do 2:26Never Never surprised. But I mean, last year during the Madrid climate negotiations, we were with Saudi Arabia and given you know, everything that we're hearing about how koalas are going extinct, the billions of animals that were wiped out, unfortunately, during the recent bush fires, you think we'd care a little bit moreDan Ilic 2:43than there's a lot of similarities between Australia and Saudi right, but particularly about the way we treat our journalists,Linh Do 2:47that is definitely for alarming, but we still call ourselves a democracy. So it's a scary path that we're headed down.Dan Ilic 2:54Now. The Morison government said it refused to sign this global pledge, endorsed by 64 other countries committed to reverse biodiversity loss because it was inconsistent with Australia's policies, namely, net zero by 2050, which pretty much the rest of the world is signed up to. Australia has committed to net zero but before 2100, which is absolutely hilarious. I mean,Linh Do 3:14we weren't really alive then. So I guess for us, that's how we have to feel better about it. That's how I go to sleep at night.Dan Ilic 3:21And can I say thank God, I won't be alive then because it's gonna be too hot to live. kitten joshy, the climate hero on Twitter did tweet some calculations of his own, which were taken from the government's own data a few months back, and he suggested that we're actually on track to meet our net zero targets by 2300. So that's about the double length of Australia's colonised period.Linh Do 3:42The numbers at that point are just eye watering. Really, it's really hard to comprehend how our policies account for multiple multiple generations from now.Dan Ilic 3:53It's so interesting. This is the latest pledge put together by the WWF and un, I jumped over to the latest pledge page because anybody can sign up to it and sign their organisation up to it so I put you dear listener behind the pledge. So irrational fear is now signed up to this pledge. So putting out 10,000 listeners a month behind the pledge good on us.Unknown Speaker 4:16Yay by diversity.Dan Ilic 4:18I emailed Terry Butler as well because she had some comments to say about you know, why scammer didn't sign up but she had at this point in time, she hasn't got back to me whether she actually signed up to the pledge herself, but they went to the website and if you are, if you are a head of state of a country, you can actually click through to a form and sign up your country so I actually went through and signed us up as well. But they haven't got back to me is to verify my identity. I said I was the Minister for climate action and in fear That's what I said.Linh Do 4:50They ignore that doesn't exist in Australia. Although you know, it's like so funny given her our head of state actually is is that the royal family is all behind by diversity like Prince Charles huge support Well, thisDan Ilic 5:00is the thing this is absolutely things have the google doc says Head of State for your country and technically our head of state is the claim. So maybe we are already signed up by default.Linh Do 5:10Well, you know, one of the benefits of colonisation and the Commonwealth and the British Empire is potentially we can follow in the footsteps of what the UK is doing right now. I likeDan Ilic 5:19that if Tony Abbott was was Prime Minister and Lizzy asked him to he probably signed up to that pledge.Linh Do 5:25Her would have thought I used to think I was a Republican in terms of you know, supporting the Republic, but here we are. All for the monarchyDan Ilic 5:33story number two. Exxon's plan for surging carbon emissions revealed in Lake documents now this story is interesting it as the rest of the kind of fossil fuel industry is planning on phasing out its emissions Exxon over the next five years is planning on increasing them by 17%. Are you surprised at all by this lindo?Linh Do 5:54I feel like Exxon has written the playbook on big organisations and companies that we can't trust Rio Tinto has just proven that again, in Australia, it almost doesn't matter what they otherwise say they're going to be doing because there's always something that they're trying to sweep under the rug.Dan Ilic 6:09This is really interesting bhp. So put out an article or somebody put out an article about bhp actually doing further oil exploration even though they've signed a pledge to get out of the fossil fuel game. But they're still exploring fossil fuels. I guess they're searching for it. So they can go put up a big sign saying don't dig here. I guess this was a finding under protected.Linh Do 6:27It wants to know that it's there. It's almost like you know, these big companies, someone in the PR department signing up to all of these pledges, maybe the by diversity one even, but then just you know, there's another part of it where engineers or whoever are going off and exploring new oil fields. It's just really reprehensible really,Dan Ilic 6:47shift in person is really significant significant for a company like Exxon, if its plans are realised Exxon would add to the atmosphere, the annual emissions of a small developed nation or 26, coal fired power plants. That's, that's insane over the next five years,Linh Do 7:06absolutely wild. It's interesting that you've been encouraging listeners to go neutral with their carbon emissions from their car. Do you think people will now change their mind about where they fill up?Dan Ilic 7:20yet? Absolutely. I'm gonna get a fill up with Shell. Definitely.Linh Do 7:28Buddy. Sorry, that was a bit of a question.Dan Ilic 7:32Can I say they extremely limited, particularly around bond I'm pretty sure Mobil Exxon is the only place I can actually fill up.Linh Do 7:39Well, the idea is to be a good carbon advocate is to drive even further in your heart to the nearest suburb Lin visit, or petrol station. I don't think that logic works out.Dan Ilic 7:50Are you telling me I'm gonna have to drive from Bondi to rosebay bp to fill up now? Oh, my God.Linh Do 7:59You're carbon neutral. So it doesn'tUnknown Speaker 8:01matter. It just doesn't. Just doesn't matter.Dan Ilic 8:04Okay. Now, Matt Canavan has been slammed for his use of the Black Lives Matter slogan. And he's got a ute. And he's got black coal matters on the back of his unit. Tell us a bit about the story.Linh Do 8:17Well, why do we even start sometimes, when I like wake up to the news in Australia, I'm like, of course, that just happened. Of course, that just happened. Um, given the way that we tray, our indigenous people in this country, pretty reprehensible given the way that we have, you know, gone on to other people's country, and like, you know, built new coal power stations doesn't make sense. I think the only good that I could sort of try to say from this is maybe then rules out the argument that we have in this country for supporting brown coal, which, you know, whilst all calls no good ground calls even more inefficient, even more dirty, so at least, we're prioritising within, you know, the scale of bad things we already do.Dan Ilic 8:58I can't believe they've appropriated this activist language for their own activist language. It really hurts my head a little bit.Linh Do 9:05Yep. Well, you know, they're borrowing from the people who do do things well. So maybe this is a sign that I'm campaigning for Black Lives Matter, really is working.Dan Ilic 9:14Just another example of why people aren't ready black culture.Unknown Speaker 9:18Yep, never ending.Dan Ilic 9:20And finally, let's talk about the 2021 budget. Lin. Katyn Joshi, as we've mentioned before, is a fantastic tweeter on climate. You got to follow him. Ke TANJ. Oh, he did this great tweet this week, while when the budget was happening, he took the budget speech hit Ctrl F and search for the word climate. It appeared only once in Josh frydenberg speech. The sentence was 1.9 billion in new funding as part of our energy plan to support low emissions of renewable technologies, helping to lower emissions and climate change followed by the sentence. We're also helping to unlock five key gas basins, isn't that just doesn't that just symbolise everything that Australia is about when it comes to emissions actually And whenLinh Do 10:00exactly it feels like that one mention was just say say we did talk about it, don't think about it in context.Dan Ilic 10:08I think that was actually my tweet as well off the back of kittens was like, say they did mention it. They didn't say climate. We didn't say climate.Linh Do 10:14We said it. They did about us know exactly. You know, it's about making sure that everyone gets represented, even if in this case, representation literally meant nothing.Dan Ilic 10:25So chillin. What I love about the budget speech, every time it comes around, it's kind of like our own version of the State of the Union speech, but it's really, really shared.Linh Do 10:34And it's way wonky. I have never been invited to a budget party, but I've been to my fair share of State of the Union ones in the US.Dan Ilic 10:42Somebody plays invite lindo to their budget party,Linh Do 10:45foreign into financial year one, I am open to all super geeky economic party conversationsDan Ilic 10:51into financial year ones are the best because often companies use that instead of Christmas. And so they treat their employees very well so that you definitely want to get on that gravy train.Unknown Speaker 11:01Okay, good to know. Good to know.Dan Ilic 11:03All right. For this week's podcast, we bring you a big conversation I had last week with Asha Gunzburg and, and Mike cannon Brookes at the Smart Energy summit. What I liked about this, it was a good chat with two really random people, you know, Asha Gunzburg, and Mike cannon Brookes. What do these people have in common? Yeah, okay. Well, you know, for those who don't know, Asha is the host of the bachelor, Mike cannon. Brooks is the software developer for Atlassian and and energy entrepreneur. What do you think these people have in common? Lynn? Do they have anything in common at all?Linh Do 11:34Well, honestly, on the surface, not so much. I think when I look at the image of like, I am confused. It feels like definitely a sort of a joke of, you know, three very random people walk into a bar, what happens? But I think this is sort of the good thing about what's happening in Australia is we have so many people who you think wouldn't care about climate change getting on board, because they recognise we all have a stake in our future.Dan Ilic 11:56I mean, in the chat, I discuss it further. But I feel like the only thing that really kind of draws these two together is that probably a decade ago, climate change wasn't a central part of their work. But now it is, as with all of us. Many of you might be wondering, where are the women on the panel, I asked this as well as from the organisers as well. They said, What do you want from me? I got I got one of the most famous people on TV and I got one of the biggest billionaires and I said, Well, Oracle is either a billionaire woman or a famous woman who could also be on this panel as well. So anyway, that they said that was enough. Without further ado, please enjoy this chat with Mike cannon Brooks and Asha Gunzburg.Unknown Speaker 12:31You're listening to the greatest moral podcast about generationDan Ilic 12:37to many in Australia. Asha is a handsome face and has been in the front of many of the biggest TV moments in Australia, including stuff like channel v Australian Idol, the mass singer, Bachelor franchise, there hasn't been a rose ceremony he hasn't been part of. But what you may not know about Asha is that he is also a student of the world deeply connected with thought leaders around the globe. Asha has been part of s&m think School of Creative Leadership. He's interviewed some of the most interesting brains of culture, science and society. And on his podcast better than yesterday, he's managed to pull that bachelor audience into a very interesting deep thinking space. So don't be fooled by his $70,000 hairstyle. Brain is switched on to climate change, and he regularly profiles activists, entrepreneurs in the climate space. He was even on q&a s climate solutions panel earlier this year.Osher Gunsberg 13:24Welcome, Marsha. Thanks, Dan. I'm really grateful to be here. To be a part of this event is a real privilege and looking ally.Dan Ilic 13:32And speaking of q&a, our other guests today was on the show on Monday. He's a real jet setter. In fact, when he was eight years old Mike cannon Brookes managed to buy his first computer on frequent flyer points, opting for an Amstrad pay say 20. A choice he still regrets to this very day. He is the co founder of Atlassian team collaboration software company is a passionate clean energy evangelist. He's also one of Australia's great muckrakers, probably in a previous era, we would have called him a larrikin. He uses his change for the better however, Mike has co opted the term fair dinkum power from Scott Morrison and turned it into a war cry for renewables. And using not much more than Twitter and a few phone calls. Mike was the driving force behind Australia getting one of the world's largest lithium ion batteries, which was only superseded by the one they put in the back of Peter Dutton. We welcome Mike cannon Brookes.Mike Cannon-Brookes 14:23Thanks Good. Good to be here man. I like that was quite an intro. I don't know we've been over the PC 20 layers of Usher's microphone that he does you guys do have some some good microphone gang duringOsher Gunsberg 14:35mocking I know a guy. Okay.Dan Ilic 14:39Well, before we get away, let's have a message from our sponsor.Unknown Speaker 14:42It's the largest recession in history in theUnknown Speaker 14:47Coronavirus stimulus is said to be slash job Kiba was 1500. a fortnight now 1200 or four nights job seeker was 550. a fortnight now just 250 a fortnight economic stimulus for by 3040 and 50% off the unemployed, I've never been more motivated to get a job that doesn't exist. There's more during the largest ever climate emergency is giving billions to the fossil fuel industry for pipelines.Unknown Speaker 15:17Instead of ending emissions of them, every guy is opposite day taking the money for the ball and giving it to the race. You've got to have a go decade ago before it's all gone. God, God, children conditions apply for donations of $6 million or more to the Liberal Party. See the PDF for details.Dan Ilic 15:35Now, fellas, so it is a way of icebreaker so we can get to know each other get to understand our own our own ideas behind climate change, I thought we'd just do a little climate quiz. I've got the answers here that are given to me by Angus Taylor's office, but I want you to answer as truthfully as possible. So first of all, let's get the quiz underway. Folks, what is the best way to lower emissions? I'm sure Mike, what is the best way to lower emissions to jump in whenever you're ready? I shall. I shall go Russia.Osher Gunsberg 16:07I dig things out of the ground. Sell them once and somebody overseas and then burn them?Dan Ilic 16:13Oh, yes. That's correct. That's correct. Very good. All right, next question. Of course, Angus wrote, the best way to lower emissions is to make more emissions. That's what Angus asked me to let you know. All right. Next question. What is the one technology that's going to save the planet? suffocating from greenhouse gas? What is the one technology's going to save the planet from suffocating with greenhouse gas? Freeze? trace. Oh, I'm sorry. It's gas. greenhouse gas. All right. Well, gas. Yeah. More gas. More gas. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What is the best way to strengthen ties without Island neighbours and security partners in the Pacific? What is the best way to strengthen ties without island?Osher Gunsberg 16:55I should allow said Pacific to rise up and swallow them. Yes. That's very, very good.Dan Ilic 17:02Actually. You've done you've done your work here. All right. Excellent. Final question. The world is meeting again, a cop 26 in Glasgow next year. What's the best way to impress our global trading partners at that conference? What is the best way?Osher Gunsberg 17:17Again, a second shirt frontingDan Ilic 17:21shirt Friday? I'll I'm not. I'm not sure that's quite right. The answer is, I'm afraid it's time to take a hodgepodge of mythical technology solutions not proven to work. And once again, be the bang whale on the supermarket trolley of progress and drag the rest of the world to the 10 items or less line. But arcia Congratulations, you have won the quiz well done.Osher Gunsberg 17:44That's terrible. Well, you want to get that wrong?Dan Ilic 17:48Oh, it's great to have you both here. Now we're all awake. Let's get stuck into the conversation, a satirist and a TV host and a software engineer, or walk into a bar and decide to make climate change the centre of what they do. How does that even happen for us three. Climate change is now part and parcel of our work. But as entertainers and creators of things 10 years ago, probably no really wasn't as important. Mike, let's start with you. How have you managed to kind of put climate at the centre of kind of what you're doing right now?Mike Cannon-Brookes 18:17Look, I think it's obviously a really, really important problem, if not the most existential challenge for humanity, depending on where in the spectrum you fall, I'd be towards the latter end of that spectrum personally. And I don't think it's going to take just, you know, green minded folk to solve. If you ask me, it's as much as an economic problem and a finance problem and a creative problem, storytelling problem. And we need all parts of society to get involved in solve that. Like, I've always been interested in technology, and the economics of things, business and other bits and pieces. So I happen to have some strengths that are super useful. But I, I think it's a good example, on your panel, if you need lots of different types of people to be tackling and attacking this problem.Dan Ilic 19:03What was there a single moment for you was like, was there like an aha moment that can you kind of brought you to this issue that you were like, wow, you know, I gotta do something I can I can do something.Mike Cannon-Brookes 19:13Look, certainly the big big battery from the intro was a large turning point for me personally, sort of got myself involved in a bit of a bingo there. And then, you know, when we got it solved, again, the reason I think that was such an amazing event is rarely have we had a lot of people shit on an ID, then the idea get built in Yeah, it gets proven in such a short period of time.Dan Ilic 19:38Right? If you've never worked, if you've never worked in television, like you've never worked in television that happens all the time.Mike Cannon-Brookes 19:42Well, but it was really instructive for me it because I had to learn a huge amount of content personally and got much more into the electricity system and how it works and why it works and how that affects climate change and emissions. And it was sort of a big startup a big journey for me, I suppose. But secondly, To see all of the stories in politics and other things behind it, and then to have that sort of laid, laid bare really quickly was was just a fascinating exercise. For me as someone who just says, that's just broken. Like I like fixing things that are broken.Dan Ilic 20:15That just seemed unjust. That was not right. People weren't saying the correct things. And I was perhaps naive before that. I think that is a really beautiful phrase like fixing things that are broken. Our show, what about you? How does how does someone go from hosting television shows in Hollywood to kind of being a climate change communicator?Osher Gunsberg 20:33I think, for me, it's because it became an undeniable problem, Dan, you know, became something that it was just, I was no longer able to ignore. If you'll allow me to virtuous virtue signal for just a moment, it was about 22 years ago that I stopped eating meat. When I, you know, I saw I started to struggle with how much resources were required to create the same sort of calorie of plant protein versus animal protein. And I just couldn't get by with that in mind, that's a bit weird. And that was kind of coupled with, you know, I seen with my own eyes or guns, snorkelling on the Great Barrier Reef in 1992. And again, in 2004, in on the same spot, and I was just bamboozled and horrified at what I saw, and, and as the years roll on, and the conversations aren't getting any more progressive, the need to start to talk about this stuff is bigger and bigger. I think, for me, oh, we can talk about it later, as far as you know, the kind of conversations that I've had around this. But Mike's got a really important point there that there's so much more going on. That trying to drive conversations about it is is really, really the only thing that I'm possibly able to do. I mean, I'm not Mike, I can't organise a massive battery to happen, you know, the way that he was able to do, but I can't have conversations and I can, like, if it gets to the point where the bloke accounts, the roses on your television and talking about climate change, it's time we did something. Okay.Dan Ilic 22:02I really love that. That's great. Um, Mike, did you? This is a kind of a strange question to be asking. But I, you know, I certainly ask it from a good faith position. As someone who has worked in climate kind of activism for a while. There may be some people out there who feel like you're a Johnny come lately to this space. Do you feel any kind of resentment from from folks out there? I mean, are you out to steal climate campaigners Limelight?Mike Cannon-Brookes 22:30I mean, simple answer is No, man, I'm trying to help people solve a problem. I've been lucky enough to get myself in a position where when I speak my mind, people listen, which is great. And like Asha is for a totally different reason. Right? When he speaks, people listen, and to solve the problem, as I said, I think you need a lot of different things. Right? And so while Yeah, sure I get on Twitter every so often, and cause a bit of a stink, I mean, have a very large fund. Now, I think we're north of a billion dollars in personal investments between my wife and I and sustainability initiatives. So you know, whenever people say and put your money where your mouth is, I'm like, that's not quite true. And, you know, fortunate enough to be able to back large projects and really make a difference and change things. Have a very different storytelling ability to Asha, because you come from a technology and economics point of view, where you can say, Hey, I firmly believe solving this problem is is an economic problem. It's as much a finance issue as a wholesale thing. I'm glad you said, Mr. Owen before, as it is a technology issue, right? I firmly we don't need a another panel, we need ways of getting more panels out more quickly. And that becomes a finance equation. Right? We can talk about that. But the nexus of technology and science and economics is a really important point to have communicatedas well as that I've got, you know,Unknown Speaker 24:03I don't know, IMike Cannon-Brookes 24:04suppose abilities to to, you know, talk to politicians and talk to opportunities. You call them amazing opportunities, right. And, and it's great. Often when I talk to them, I'm like, trying to convince them to see how the future is going to be it's almost the as I said to someone else, the curse of people that live in technology is we see what's going to happen 1020 years down the line, but we live in a disruptive, constant world. That's what we do. And you're like, well, this is how it works. And they're like, Oh, no, but you know, the power stations have been like this for 30 years and you're like, no, you're operating on 1982 economics like this is not this is just not how it works today. So I justDan Ilic 24:38love I just love watching you on q&a Monday and just the ability to cut through politicians speak with just in effect effectively. You didn't say what you're saying is bullshit but the way you said it said Oh, sounds like bullshit, butUnknown Speaker 24:55I was warned notOsher Gunsberg 24:56use the word bullshit, which is why use the word buncombeMike Cannon-Brookes 25:00I would I was just one on this one. So I hope that was all right.Dan Ilic 25:04No, I think you're allowed to say whatUnknown Speaker 25:07your look looks likeMike Cannon-Brookes 25:08politicians have a tough job though, because they, they're trying to get elected, right, almost like their primary goal is to get elected. And then their second goal is to get something done. Yeah. And I don't think it should be that way around. But that's the reality of, of what's going on. Right. And so if you don't have to get elected, you can say, well, the correct answer is actually to do this. Let me explain to you why that answer is correct. Rather than, like, let me give the answer that's correct enough to get me elected, but we'll make some form of progress.Dan Ilic 25:38You You both both of you, Mike, and I should have been on q&a, Mike, last night. On Monday night, you were you're very much facts and figures, driving home, what you know, and driving home a vision of what could life could be Asha, your experience was a little different on q&a. It was it was had different kind of words attached to it, you know, very emotional kind of hope and grief are all tied into that. What What was that experience like being on q&a and kind of talking about climate on q&a for you?Osher Gunsberg 26:07Well, for me, if anybody knows my story, it was initially it was quite terrifying. Because I actually had quite a horrible episode of climate anxiety that tipped up into the actually episodes of psychosis and manifested as paranoid delusions. And I was actually when I was living in North America at the time, I was living in Venice Beach and I would go for run down the beach, and I would I try to see the oceans swallowing the houses along the boulevard, there it was, it was really, really horrible. And so it's still Yeah, it's tricky. You know, feeling anxiety having this conversation right now. But for me, being with that discomfort being with that is the only antidote that there is to this and being an action is the only antidote that there is to climate anxiety. You can pretend that it's not there, like a cancer diagnosis, you can wish it doesn't exist. You can carry on buying packs of diaries, you can just keep going and pretend everything's gonna be fine. But you know, that thing is messed metastasizing inside your body is eating you from the inside. Similarly, we just kind of have to be with it. We have to be with how grievous we need to fail, you know, and I did say it across the summertime when I started to see it in other people's eyes, people were talking to me because I've read my book and now like, are you are I actually am because I can see the fear that I saw in myself and other people now. And I get the feeling that I'm not I'm not alone, you know, obviously down experiencing what I was experiencing, because my fear was an irrational fear, Dan, but they get it. And the only antidote, once you've had that time to grieve, and you, once you start to realise it, I think this is what conversations about climate are so hard, because once you start to realise, like, hang on, we've done what, and even if we did everything tomorrow, it would still be worse for like, 20 years. What, like, that's a horrible thing to suddenly realise. And of course, it's confronting, and people don't want to talk about it. And giving people space to feel that is important, and allowing them to be with that grief, because it's only once you've sat in it and gone right then, well, I guess waterfalls of crises are a good thing. Um, what can I do? And then you move into action. And that's really the only thing and that's really what I was trying to talk about on q&a was like, being inaction is the only antidote to climate anxiety.Dan Ilic 28:19Yeah. And, Mike, you are a person of action, you were just talking about kind of your ability to kind of leapfrog competitors and innovate. And to use that overused Wayne Gretzky quote, you know, skating where the puck is going to be, is Australia skating where the puck is going to be?Mike Cannon-Brookes 28:35Look, I don't think we are, but I think we should be. I think perhaps,I think that the climate change problem, let's face it, the climate crisis writ large is an incredibly hard problem to solve. Right? And part of the reason it's incredibly hard problem to solve is because it's a prisoner's dilemma by nature, right? Anytime you have someone bullshit you and say, oh, we're only like a couple percent of the problem. So why do we bother? Let's Let's write it. It's like, okay, you can get upset about that. But it's going to require the entire world to come together and solve this run. However, for Australia, we have this amazing opportunity, which should frustrate us even more, because we actually have an opportunity in this. It's not just doing our 2%. It's the ability for us to build, literally the future of our country. And I think when we talk about skating, where the puck is going to be, it's not about solving again, this is where, you know, long ago now I was all about 200% renewables because just literally it is a thing that makes people think, what do you mean 200%? It's because this is an opportunity for us. We've never been able to have more energy than we need, until you think about it and go Actually, that's all we do. Export is energy. Well, that's all we export. But when I talk about fossil fuels, we are exporting energy. All we're saying is we were evolved that to export a different type of energy. That's an opportunity for us and we have just such an amazing opportunity, not just resources, you've probably had lots of people in the last two days. He's talking about sun and wind and how it could power the entire world five times over from Australia, etc. That's all totally true. We also have the opportunity in the finance community, in the talent we have here. If you think about anybody that's built large scale infrastructure projects, I care if you're building a coal mine, or a large energy export project of a different kind, you need large scale project management, you need project finance, you need engineering, you need electricians, you need all sorts of different bits and people to make this. We have all that expertise in Australia. And we have the resources and the talent. And we need to get people back to work in massive numbers. We're talking about skating where the puck is going to be the single greatest frustration at the moment is that we don't see this as an opportunity and economic opportunity that we should be embracing, which is like never before five years ago, it wasn't true, right? We didn't have the cost models and stuff that we do today.Dan Ilic 30:54that that would be scanning with the puppies. I think, you know, the the notion of 200% renewables or 500% renewables totally blows my mind. It's like, yeah, of course, like, it totally makes sense. And it really annoys me when you when we hearing at the moment, particularly with hydrogen that came out in the Technology Roadmap, and how hydrogens can be made with gas, brown hydrogen, and there's like, what do you like? What are you doing when we've got all this other energy we could use to make hydrogen and we've got the water, we are good by water. We are good by the resources that we need. We like we're good by Sun and water, like good. We think good. Dory anyway. So anyway, I get really annoyed when I hear these, you know, myopic ideas that kind of lock us into into fossil fuels when it's so obvious that that we could execute on something far more innovative.Mike Cannon-Brookes 31:45I should say that we have a sundrenched land with boundless less planes that a windswept? Yeah, well, you can, you can keep going down lots of poetry and be like, we literally want this a long time ago.Dan Ilic 31:57Do that someone will write it, write it down and put it in Comic Sans and email to their uncle. And it'll be used as irrefutable evidence against climate change. So I'll share for you who is someone who is kind of globally minded yourself, like what what would you like to see Australia take to Glasgow next year in terms of in terms of plan?Osher Gunsberg 32:18Um, look, I think the most important thing as as extraordinarily humongous as the the investment that Mike is working on with his wife, and you know, the other people that we've heard over the last two days, we really are going to have to make our country safe for foreign capital, in the in long term policy, we really going to have to make it safe, because if we're gonna get out of this, we are absolutely 100% going to need foreign investment, we're going to need investors to feel safe, and that their investments will be good for 2030 more years here in Australia. And that's what that's what's gonna have to happen. When I first went overseas to study a couple years ago. Anyone that's talked to a Dutch person will understand the directness. Hi, I'm from Australia. Oh, really? What's going on with your country? Why does the carbon tax Why? Why do you still dig up so much coal, and I found myself like having to apologise to this classroom for the people. We are at enormous risk of being overlooked by the international community and the international investment community. I think the days of Australia being like, oh, that kind of scruffy larrikin that gets a roof over here and a pat on the back and off you go, you know, the little schoolboy that's gone over, if we're not clever, we're just gonna get left out of the opportunity, the extraordinary global opportunity that's ahead of us. And countries with sun and wind and bandwidth plans to stay will they'll be the ones that that get the cake and we will be sitting around going. Alright, I guess it is yes. Pacific bass. Oh, yeah.Dan Ilic 33:47It I mean, it is so strange seeing how Bacary out a whole bunch of things. Mike, you you have been having conversations with a lot of politic politicians. The Liberal government is all of a sudden becoming a market interventionist, you know, with what they do with guests, but out of chat with us, as well as energy minister Matt Cain on my podcast a few weeks ago, and he actually said very few, very few liberals are actually into fossil fuels. If that's the case, why do we have the situation today where the federal government is really backing fossil fuels, but the states and territories are leading the charge in renewables? That what is that? What does that disconnect between the states and the federal, federal politicians?Unknown Speaker 34:27How many hours? Do you have the answer that IDan Ilic 34:28think we've only got 25 minutes. ButMike Cannon-Brookes 34:31look, look, I think for sure the states are taking charge, which is awesome. You could argue to be to be charitable. It's one of the positives of the way that our Federation is constructed, that we do have different groups that can kind of move forward in different ways. I think obviously mats doing a great job in New South Wales. We have a lot of other states are doing an amazing job. I would remind people that the AC T is 100% renewable now. And that's where the parliamentarians federally sit in Parliament House. So that always makes me Ah, feel good that we have one of theDan Ilic 35:04few only I'm sad. Often houses in the world, in fact markets, the wind from all those politicians that gets those windmills going. SoOsher Gunsberg 35:12thank you, Dan. Thank you. You can see yourself as myDan Ilic 35:14Yeah, I could write for The Daily Telegraph with puns like that.Mike Cannon-Brookes 35:19Look, I think it's it's a it's a complex issue, right. The federal issue obviously involves lots of different complexities that the state driven issues don't. Right. But we have to, we have to work this out. And, again, we have netzero commitments, I believe in every state and territory now, but not federally. So there's a lot of argument about whether it matters federally, does it actually matter? And the answer is, I think it still does matter. But it doesn't matter as much as it would have done if we didn't have one. Right. So I do think we are getting that moving in the right direction. There are certain things that are federally controlled, that we need to move forward on and and to be fair to them they've done put the gas stuff aside for a second. The renewable any energy infrastructure investments, they're making transmission was there great. Like we totally need those and they have to be legit federally done. They announced, you know, for Star, the south and other things that they are federally. Finally, you and I either took too long. Okay, great. wherever we are, we're gonna move forward. framework for offshore wind and offshore other things. Again, we have massive offshore resources, price of offshore has converged to basically the same as price of onshore now. So they are moving in the right direction. Would we like them to move faster? Sure. Does it help to talk and keep pushing and keep moving? Yes, I think it really does. I think theyou know, what, great state and federal we need byDan Ilic 36:52Yeah, I understand that. But I mean, with all this the state with the state territories with the states and territories or committing to net zero by 2050. It shouldn't be hard for the federal government government said, yeah, we are going to commit to net zero by 2050. Because the states are doing it. So we're going to absolutely do it. And it's it's it's like pure leadership play. And it doesn't it doesn't dog whistle to fossil fuel industries or their bass or anything like that. But having a flag in the ground, everyone can run towards it. And coal is still going to be mined, there's gases still going to be pumped. But it's a federal signpost that says yeah, we're we are also good actors in the world. Like it feels like this. It's an opportunity completely missed. And it sends the wrong signal to our neighbours and other people where you know, other people in the world we have to deal with.Mike Cannon-Brookes 37:39Absolutely don't I mean, don't get me wrong in Madrid, we were an international prime. Right, three countries blow up those towards us, Saudi Arabia and Russia. And that not a club that you generally want to be a member of when it comes to basically what what you're doing international diplomacy, etc. Right? Why did we do that over Kyoto credits? Right, like for all the bullshit you want to put around it, that is the literally the reason that we did that. Europeans were trying to make the credits that we're trying to apply for which by the way, should never have been, they were not written into the agreement. It's total bullshit. I forget. It was on was it on q&a, someone else said, it's like, going to your second marriage and saying, Oh, I did a lot of dishes in the first one. In the second marriage, I was like, that is the best. That's why we need crave storytellers like Oscar. And that was like, the explanation. That is literally what we're trying to say is it's a different accounting system in Paris and Canada, like they're completely different. Yeah, but we were not good internationally. How many years? Can you turn off and be not good internationally, and then ask for other things, and we need strategic international diplomacy in our region. We want to be a world leading group. We have to have that. Yeah. We had shut up in Glasgow, and that should have been right now. Without anything, we would have been locked out of the room. IDan Ilic 38:59Ah, yeah, I get a feeling I get. I get I get the feeling we're still gonna be left at the room with this technology roadmap, but I don't know if that'll change between now then.Mike Cannon-Brookes 39:08I'll show up with just the Technology Roadmap in Glasgow in 12 months time and expect to have any respect on the international community when it comes to climate and emissions.Yeah. We can Trump adjust thatDan Ilic 39:22will lose all that power. Again, I'll shut in the space leadership is hard. And especially in you know, the climate space. Everyone has the ability to unlock their own personal power to affect change. You're a solo operator, though, but but you have enormous power in reaching audiences. Can you kind of paint us a picture of how you use your personal power to try and affect change in the positive ways in space?Osher Gunsberg 39:45I'm just another middle aged white guy in the public eye talking about something that you know he feels is a you know, compassionate thing. Yeah.Dan Ilic 39:53As many people have pointed out to me on twitter at this is what this panel is Yes,Osher Gunsberg 39:58yeah. The three whitest dudes in the room. Look, I've been in one way or another in the corner of people's television, like in the corner of people's living rooms for the past 21 years or so. So, I that buys me about an extra four seconds of your attention, you know? Because I that's that guy. Oh, yeah, the thing, what's he talking about? That gives me about an extra four seconds and a lot can happen in that four seconds, a lot can happen as far as getting people to consider, there might actually be something going on here, you may actually have a lot more power than you then you realise. And, and just try to I guess, you know, model through. I mean, I've had a lot of success on my podcast through having conversations about like, just modelling what a conversation about mental health can look like. And that has been extraordinarily helpful to a lot of people, and has been quite profound as far as effecting change. Similarly, I tried to have conversations on my on my podcast that actually sound like two adults discussing this challenge and the incredible opportunities because I think as a nation, we plant like I'm just trying to fill a gaping, aching chasm of getting the feeling like as an adult in the room that causes extraordinary anxiety in the community. We know that our government believes in science, that's how we crushed the curve on COVID. All right, we know that they're willing to spend money on things that mean something to them, they just don't want to spend money on this. We know they're not people who don't believe in graphs. There are graphs. There's current, there's there's curves, there's curves, there's things there's capacity of hospital capacity that we're all very aware of shiners they know how to read a graph. So here's a similar graph, different colours, similar capacity for sustaining life. So don't tell us you don't know what it's about. I think it's just the feeling that there's, you know, there's this kind of feeling of dread within a community that, that mom and dad just too busy arguing in the front seat, and I don't know where we're driving the kids in the back of losing their mind, we as a nation, we just want to know that mum and dad have got this, we want to know that the adults in the room are taking charge, and we'll be cool, we'll be alright. That's all we need. And we'll be fine. All right, we'll get on with doing our jobs, you get on with doing yours. And I think through that through my ability to have a conversation and a rational conversation in public on Well, this is what it sounds like to talk about the reality, to discuss the grief of what we're losing what we will lose what we cannot ever get back. And then to talk about the opportunity, extraordinary chance we have right now to rebuild that country, for our children, for our grandchildren. It's astonishing, that we don't have these conversations on a wider level and haveDan Ilic 42:26Can you tell us what your audience is feeling when you have these conversations? What kind of feedback you get, particularly on your climate conversations? What like, what are they saying to you?Osher Gunsberg 42:34I think it's a two handed thing, because I don't think you can fully appreciate, you know, the way I try to talk about it, Dan, it's I think that it's not like we don't have the ability to discuss this, we have all the ability to handle the psychology behind inaction on climate already. Okay, it is the same denial. And I can speak to this from my own experience as someone who's been sober 10 and a half years, it's the same denial that you have around alcoholism on the signs, and all you have to anything you're addicted to the amount of justification, the amount of manipulation, the amount of lying, the amount of I don't know should be right should be right? The amount of constantly using this thing that you know, is ultimately going to kill you. But you're so terrified of change, and you just can't picture any other way you keep doing it. That is that's the type of alcohol gambling, sex, whatever. Here we are, folks, here we are. But the thing about being addicted is it's a life of restriction. When you're addicted to anything, things just get smaller and smaller and smaller. Once you find your way into sobriety from that addiction, once you become recovered from that addiction, the opportunities just explode. All right. And I've seen this time and time and time again, the same psychological things that we have within our brains, that we've used to find help for people who are addicted to substances we can use to help people find out of this situation.Dan Ilic 43:51I totally agree with you there. Like just even having a summit like this is really important by having people who are knowledgeable and understand what the future could look like to be able to paint what that future looks like, can unlock a whole bunch of hoping everyday people like you, like you wouldn't make sorry, might not count counting you like an everyday person because you're in this industry. But like, you know, regular Joe's to kind of think big about what the future could look like. Mike listening to this for you, who has someone who has put climate at the centre of their business and their businesses, and someone who has really put their money where their mouth is, what should other businesses do? Like what's what's a great way a great simple way to get the ball ball rolling, if you if you run teams or you you run businesses, what's the great way to kind of get the ball rolling in this space to really start applying pressure to change the way they do things.Mike Cannon-Brookes 44:46Um, probably depends on which sort of business you're running, I suppose for large businesses, I think, and again, this is what for me it comes down to economics. I I'm a deep believer. I should say that Start that the money like that drives things. Economics drives things like economics is a study of human behaviour. Actually, it's not a study of money, right? It's about utility. And you know, when you get into supply, demand and etc, we have rational actors and game theory and everything else, right? The best way to solve this problem, if you ask me is solving the economics. And what's frustrating is we've gotten to the point that the economics is favourable. So just like if you have a house in Australia, and you're not one of the 3 million households that has panels on the roof, and you own that house, I realise if you're insisting upon building, we've got to solve those problems separately. Putting panels on will save you man, like, it's almost like, there's enough financing options out there to get those panels for free onto your roof, that you're just kind of giving away money by not having them on your roof, right, that's an economic problem that's in a good spot, not quite as batteries, but we will get there, right? If you're running a business, for some reason, people go to the business and don't think the same way. Right. One of the things I've done a lot of work with Ari 100, which is a great group trying to drive globally started by IKEA and Microsoft and Lego and others. Atlassian was one of the first members in Australia. And now we've got, I think all of the big banks and a whole bunch of other great members, john D, runs out has done a fantastic job driving large scale corporates to join. The biggest reason that convinces him to join is they will save money for their business, a business will run cheaper, right? And if you want to talk to business and get them to move, that's often the best way to do it. Right? is like, hey, what if you build next he was $8, not $10. Like, Hey, I'm interested, now I'm listening. He so I do think people's businesses can benefit from this in a financial way, right. And you can feel good while doing it. There's nothing wrong with feeling good about what you're doing. But the same problem for the the nation of Australia in terms of this could create shitloads of jobs. Oh, hang on, man. I've seen the guys into my visit. And they're not they're not doing renewables. I'm like, most of the hottest jobs being created today are in renewables. Like, we're gonna have a debate about narrow bar versus renewable energies. And in terms of jobs, the energy on whenDan Ilic 47:09I don't know, whoever's running Smart Energy summit sound video right now, if you could just go back and capture Mike's last 30 seconds, that'd be a great gift.Mike Cannon-Brookes 47:18It is the frustration. But you should take that home your business, I guess is what I'm saying is the economics of what we have in terms of today's technology is really good for your business, for your household, and for the nation of Australia because of the resources we have. And that is what the story that we need to keep telling. And it takes people a long time to understand that that is the story. And understand that that story will be better every single year. But it's already positive economics for the country. The business there. SoDan Ilic 47:51is that kind of what you fundamentally believe that others don't believe Mike, what's is that the disconnect?Mike Cannon-Brookes 47:58Yes, I believe it's a finance and economics problem. That's the best way to solve it. There's probably one thing I fundamentally believe that often others don't believe how to speak for everybody else. It's a bit like for me, it's like recycling, right? If I tell you that you should recycle 5% of population will be the do gooders and do the right thing. Soon as I pay five cents a bottle, it's like 80% of people will recycle or something. And so financial incentives and utilities actually do make a big sense in the economic world. So I do think it's a finance problem, we should remember that almost all almost all renewable technologies are large capital low input, if not zero input. What that means is all the money is spent upfront. And you know, you put panels on your roof cost you five to 10, grand, and then it's free after that you can get up with a shimmy and walk them every so often if you want to. So the 20 years are free. That's what financing does. Financing loans, etc, is about how do we make it so that you can get those panels cheaper, quicker, it's like a credit card or a mortgage. Right? These are exactly the same devices, we invented the mortgage in the Depression of the 1930s, to help people buy houses. And we said, You know what, you can live in that house for 30 years, we're gonna work out the financing equation, you're gonna pay twice the price of the house, or whatever it is over the time, but you're gonna like having a house. So this is really good. We invented the mortgage. We're constantly trying to do financing activities for all clean technologies, because the generally zero input cost, large scale capex up front, where finance is perfect. The second thing that I think I believe in is I believe in learning rights of modular technologies. deeply, deeply, deeply as a technologist. This is super important, and I believe far too few people understand this.Dan Ilic 49:37What is this elaborate on this? I don't know what you're talking about.Mike Cannon-Brookes 49:41It's all the panels batteries.Wind turbines. These are modular technologies, right? By that I mean, if I have one panel or a million panels, I just make more of the same thing. Right? It's why chips get cheaper is because we make slightly better chips and we make a bigger factories that make more chips right naturally. A lot of That ends up being more important, right? More of the reduction of the cost of a solar panel now is coming from manufacturing scale. And installation costs then from bit asides and building better panels. But these are modular technologies, they will always win once they reach the point of scale that begets the learning rate, which makes them cheaper, which means that they get more scale, which means that they get more money, right? If you're in technology, we've seen this in chips. We've seen it in cameras, the camera in your mobile phone in 10 years, improved quality per pixels per dollar a thousandfold. Right, so we got either 1000 times cheaper, or it got 100 times cheaper and 10 times more powerful or some combination, right? This is the way that technology works when that technology is modular. Lots of technologies are not modular, and that is unfortunate. So those learning rates do not apply to everything, but they do apply to solar batteries, etc. And they are like Moore's law and chips Swanson's law and solo. These laws aren't laws of physics, but they will happen next year, I've had discussions with politicians where I say Do you realise that batteries have gotten like 10 times cheaper or three times longer lasting or twice as light, or any of these sort of facts? Now I gave it you don't know that will happen next year. And I'm like, ah, but I do. I can't tell you in the next three months. But I can tell you if I look 234 years that will absolutely continue.Dan Ilic 51:25Like Don't take this the wrong way. But with with your hair and stuff, it looks into your hoodie, you could be like a wizard of technology.Mike Cannon-Brookes 51:33But this is like if we understood this, again, we would never build any more fossil technologies at large scale, because 30 years from now, it won't make sense, right? 10 years from now what makes sense. And we kind of know that based on today. But we seem to we struggle with that future pricing equation. A lot. The learning rate of modular technologies has to be understood, as has the financing questionDan Ilic 52:01asked, what about the scalability of podcasts? Are there enough a podcast and to reach enough people to convince them to jump on board this clean energy train?Osher Gunsberg 52:09I don't know how many middle aged white men are there? Because we all need a podcast? Look, honestly, I'm just just just just vibing on Mike cannon Brookes extraordinary, like Alan Malala is kind of ability to restructure and recreate our, you know, this problem and looking at it like an engineering problem, I really have to agree with what Mark was talking about there. As heartbreaking as it is, and you're here on this resume, because you have seen the graphs and you know what's going to happen. So you are here from an emotional reason, probably all right. There's very few people here from a financial reason, once it becomes a financial reason, this will change overnight. And I've got to acknowledge at how much it sucks to wait for that economic reason to become viable. But unfortunately, that is the way of the world. And we just have to wait. But it will absolutely. Mark's already talking about these tipping points where things the cleaner, greener option is the cheaper, scalable, more replicable option. But we just have to wait for that. Which is really, really horrible if you're an endangered species. But that's you know, that's that's the truth. That's whereMike Cannon-Brookes 53:12we've already got that point. It's coming. Right? Like we've already gotten on a number we should we all need to stop saying it's coming. It's here. It is here today. Yeah, right in a lot of technology. And we need to say that that we've reached that point. We are beyond that point. When people talk about the cheapest source of new power generation being renewables, they're telling the truth, but they're also a couple years late. And so as a community or whatever, we need to stop saying these things are coming in the future. These both will create jobs and cheaper energy. And this is like today's world, not Tomorrow's World one Exactly. To get thrown around is fun. I'm not saying it's wrong on the fly. But why politicians is Yeah, we need some more technology, like in five years or 10 years or 20 years. We'll get there. I'm like we're fucking there right now. Yeah, we need to keep saying that. I can't stress that enough.Osher Gunsberg 53:58I'm agreeing. I'm agreeing with you market just yet. Which is like the I'm what I'm doing is I'm agreeing saying like the idea of pushing people to understand that the financial decision is the right decision right now. It's the emotional decision. That's the thing that people reacted, that's they will go, Oh, no, no, no sort of thing on Facebook. If it's an emotional decision, people want to shut it down and reject it. But if it's financial decision, people go, hang on what I can save money. And then that's the way that's the way and so to answer your question, Dan, I don't know how many podcasts but definitely conversations and it's everyday conversations. And it's literally is when someone says, gee, it's a nice day today. Yeah, it is. It's 30 degrees. It's the fourth of September shouldn't be 30 degrees.Dan Ilic 54:37question here from Christine mill. Mike. Have you considered the batteries on on the mainland? will eclipse pumped hydro storage based in Tasmania, and we'll leave the lettuce stranded.Mike Cannon-Brookes 54:50Ah, look, that's a deep nuance energy question. I don't do my Tasmania and I believe that leaves a lot of stranded because there it's already built. so pumped hydro has a 50 year lifetime. And if you've already kind of paid off the capex, then you should be okay with that. pumped hydro is a good example of a non modular technology. Every time you build pumped hydro, largely, the pumps are modular. But the engineering required to work out this piece of water, that bit of water, the pipes, the pumps, the the the angles, like it's an engineering project engineering projects are not very scalable. I can find any field and roll out solar panels with, you know, very, very quickly. So, yes, they will. I think one of the big things for Australia is probably about snowy Hydro and snowy hydro two, and specifically, whether that's a good investment or a bad investment. I generally fall down that that's a good investment, not a great investment. It is not the best thing we could have done with that amount of money. But it's not a terrible thing to do with the money. Right. From the point of view of storage. Will batteries be cheaper by the time that is ready? That is a great question.Dan Ilic 55:57Yeah, another question about the New South Wales government, which today has announced the neraby the narrabri gas project is going ahead, Mike, what are your thoughts on that project? Does it have a chance of being found?Mike Cannon-Brookes 56:09You're gonna get a shitload of hot water here? Um,firstly, I think it was the independent planning commission that said they could go forward from what I understand not the New South Wales, I'm not sure how the relationship between those two To be fair, but I'm not sure if it was New South Wales Government stamp that I can I can ethically disagree with that. At some level, I have to hope that they've all done their correct work on planning and everything else and have the right controls. I don't know if the project will go forward from a financing perspective. If I was Santos, and looking at the finances, I would think that would be a struggle to get up and running. You know, you need to be betting on $1 A Giga Joule gas a long time in the future for that to all make sense. Look, if they're going to put private capital and we've done the environmental concerns, that's fine. I don't have to agree with it personally, right. But at some level, you can't just always be tearing down the structures that we have that said, Do I think it's necessary? We're gonna bring Australia's power prices down? Absolutely not like let's, I'm very clear with gas. Give me the word off the gas.Dan Ilic 57:13And then let's separate all these concepts because the blurring of the stories gets very confusing, like I said, on q&a. There's the extraction, there's the transport, there's the price is aMike Cannon-Brookes 57:24totally different things and totally different timescales. Right, if you're talking about the next three to five years, and beyond any of that three or five years, right, they'll probably still be debating various concerns about groundwater and salt and all absolutely valid things to be debating three years from now,Dan Ilic 57:41do you get you get phone calls from the guest lobby? Mike, do you get phone calls saying Hey, Mike, let's turn maitain into us thing get on our side? I just wanted to say that jack, another question from Blair heavyMike Cannon-Brookes 57:52told me that we've got call in the coalition and I'm gonna tell you there's also lithium ionUnknown Speaker 57:58highMike Cannon-Brookes 58:01in there, right, we've just got to flip it from one to the other.Dan Ilic 58:03Blair asks my cow can the current government refuse to even see the economic benefits and pick a polluting now done energy source such as gas when it so clearly does not make financial sense? So like, what what is that? What decision Do you think in your mind that they've made?Mike Cannon-Brookes 58:22Look, this is where a politician has very different job than that's how our society works, right? I understand that they are trying at some level to navigate themselves away from coal and get two other things right. And and the way they did the transition fuel is also a transitionary policy platform of fossil fuels that gets you kind of away without any elegant this dismount. I don't think we need that dismount. Right, but you might need it. If you're trying to get elected, that's totally different. We don't need it from an energy point of view. We don't need it from a country point of view. We don't need it from an economic point of view. However, they are, we should give them credit. Again, sometimes people like to make these things black and white. And the answer is always a bit of grey, we should give him credit. The largest announcement made two weeks ago was a couple of hundred million bucks for renewable and energy infrastructure, transmission infrastructure. That was the largest dollar commitment. The largest job commitment was the same thing. So sometimes the announcement it's important gets buried in the, you know, the other stuff. Secondly, I think it's really important and what I would like to keep repeating, there was an implicit, we're moving to 100% renewables. In those announcements. This is the first time the government has said that on the other side, we had Alba's saying we're going to be renewable energy superpower. Let's focus on the long arc of time. That was a stratospheric shift from our current government to implicitly say whether they said we're moving to hydrogen, you definitely need gas. Let's spend a lot of time talking about gas. Wait a second. Let's go back to what you just said. Up front. You admitted we're moving on grid to 100% renewables and beyond. That's a big step. I get why you didn't like that the headline, even though I would make that the headline, and you can argue it's took too long. Doesn't matter. Yeah, we're gonna get there.Dan Ilic 1:00:09Is it gonna be like the NBN? Like it? They'll say that in 50 years time, they'll be like, Oh, you know what we were wrong back then we're actually actually gonna really goMike Cannon-Brookes 1:00:17down again. Again, one of the reasons we're trying to keep them honest, I suppose about this Ladell replacement thing, and they've already come down from 1000 megawatt hours, which by the way, is a classic. If you're a politician, You make it sound bigger. You can't make it one gigawatt.Unknown Speaker 1:00:29What are they? What are they 1000 megawatts becauseMike Cannon-Brookes 1:00:31it sounds bigger. I'm like, well, let's make it a million kilowatt plant. It's a billion watts. I don't understand the numbers. But anyway, let's just say it's already gone from 1000 megawatts to 250. Right? Wow. I put my money that never gets built.Dan Ilic 1:00:44I think it was seven times a court who said that he read a tweet from his last week that a 250 megawatt plant was run by 13. People think of all the job it will create.Mike Cannon-Brookes 1:00:55Hundred 50 megawatt plant. We instal that much residential solar every month in this country. Wow. 250 megawatts a month. Right. So let's go forward three and a quarter years. That's 10 gigawatts of residential solar installed without any growth whatsoever. If it flatlines from here, and it's growing like this. So if it flatlines, we'll get 10 gigawatts, two or 50 megawatts as much as people want to say it's big, it's fucking tiny. Right? It's a tiny, tiny, tiny amount of our grid, it won't get built, unless the government forces it in with subsidies. And if they do, tell us how much the subsidy is or how much the investment is, and I'll give you 345 better options. straightaway.Dan Ilic 1:01:35They were sending something really telling I think on insiders when spezia was interviewing skybow talking about not committing to the net, net zero 50. And scomo was like oh, yeah, no, we'll get in it serious 50 by the end of the century,Unknown Speaker 1:01:49it's like God, it's so frustrating.Dan Ilic 1:01:50And I think kitaen Joshi wrote a great piece saying, well, by the government's own admission, their emissions will get to net zero by 2300. I don't think I don't think that's a don't think we have a long arc of time, is what is what particular Blair's replied to me saying we don't have a long arc of time as well. I don't think we have that long arc of time to actually make these changes. How can we accelerate that? Or how can we put pressure on as, as voters to get our politicians to accelerate those changes to push for net zero 50 or net zero by 30? In the process,Osher Gunsberg 1:02:24it's got to be where you spend your money, Dan, we vote every three years or whatever down the state schools, but we vote every single day where we spend our dollars. I think there was a like a 2014 study out of Princeton that show that public protest often has a like a near zero impact on on government policy. What makes people stand up is where people are suddenly not spending their money. That's where decisions get made. And we have that choice. As a nation, we have the choice of we all decided to go like one day a week without buying petrol. People would lose their minds as a whole nation when when that's it. We're not buying petrol for a week, because when upset about the way the fuel lobbies done, it would be changed overnight. All right, we have that power, we absolutely have that power. It's just in the organisation. And it's where you spend your money. As Mark was saying, if you start if the rooftop solar keeps going in that direction. There's no way that the industry won't adjust to that. But that's people making a decision on the bottom line of their household budget, hundred percent. And that's where we have the ability to affect change every single day. You are not powerless. Every dollar you spend is a vote.Dan Ilic 1:03:29Thanks, Ayesha. That was brilliant. I think we're out of time. So big thanks to Mike and and Brooks and Asha Gunzburg. It's been a real privilege talking with you and yelling with you about climate change and energy transitions. I had a real wonderful time. And really, this is a highlight of my year so far. And let's face it, it's 2020. So low standards, but still pretty good stuff I have to say.Osher Gunsberg 1:03:51Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Mike.Dan Ilic 1:03:52Thanks, guys. Thanks a lot, everyone.Unknown Speaker 1:03:56GM, great, a small podcastOsher Gunsberg 1:03:58of our generation. Well in what did you think of that?Linh Do 1:04:00That was great. I was surprised by how entertained I was. I mean, it makes sense. You had one of Australia's most famous TV people, although that said, given given that Asha did name dropping university, I feel I need to name dropping university as well. So I'm going to name drop Harvard. So there's a Harvard academic called Erica Genworth, who actually believes civil disobedience is not only the moral choice that we have for combating climate change or any sort of other social issue, but it's one of the most powerful ways of shaping world politics. So her research, one of the things I've geeked out on, looks at hundreds of campaigns over the last century, and it's found that it's 3.5% of the population engaged in a social issue. It has never failed to bring about political change. So yes, it's important where you spend your money for sure. But actually, that's really important in Australia, what what does that look like? That looks like 900,000 people actively engaging. So you know, last year school strike alone, we had 300,000 people attend and you know, there were many people who couldn't make it. myself included, I have the flu. As you know, even pre carpet, I knew it wasn't good for me to go and spread my germs. But we look at some of the populations around the world that you know, have taken measurable action on climate change. And what do you know, 3.5% of a population has engaged so cambre, which is you know, as mentioned, 100% renewable energy paired with now. They had over 3.5% of their population go to the climate marches last year. The same is the case in New Zealand as well and a bunch of other places around the world. So, dear listeners, never forget political action is still important. But other than that great interview.Dan Ilic 1:05:37Lynn, can we get Erica chin was on the show.Linh Do 1:05:40That would be amazing. I don't think she's a billionaire. And I don't think she's very famous on TV. But I think she has like some phenomenal thoughts around. Actually we can do more than just far and we can do more than just spend our money, how we show up and how we use our voices. I think Matt is just as muchDan Ilic 1:05:57Big thanks to rode mics Bertha foundation go neutral, Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline. Also Big thanks to the Smart Energy Council for letting me publish this audio from this session here. irrational fear is back in two weeks, we're having a little bit of a break because we've been so flat out with Nina ayama, and Gretel a Jackson and the week after that with Zoe combs, ma and Concetta Cristo. And we'll be back with the greatest moral podcast of our generation in November, where we chat with YesI moseby. And Sophie marjanovic, who are organising a gigantic campaign for the Torres Strait, to take the Australian Government to the UN to fight them on their lack of climate action. It's a fascinating chat. You'll be in tears. I've just started editing it now. It's, it's really great.Linh Do 1:06:39I can't wait to listen to that, given our track record, I would think that they have a really good chance of winning. And there's so many cases again, around the world of people taking the government's to action. So got on the crew up north.Dan Ilic 1:06:52One of the interesting things about that chat I've had with those folks is that Sophie was saying that it doesn't matter if the UN comes down on the side of the Taurus, right? And Australia does nothing. It's often just a preset and like setting that precedent will allow other populations to take their countries to court and get the same result. And then those countries can take action. So even if we do if I call that something special we can give to the rest of the world.Linh Do 1:07:14Great. It's the least we can do given we won't even sign a biodiversity pledge.Dan Ilic 1:07:18Thanks for listening to irrational fears greatest moral podcast of our generation. Until next time, there's always something to be scared of. ByeTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/GoNeutralhttp://bit.ly/GoNeutralIf you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with here: A real privilege to have this kind of line up —The Dollop’s Dave Anthony.The Bichuation Room’s Francesca Fiorentiniand former White House Director of CommunicationAnthony Scaramucci.And Lewis Hobba and Dan Ilic.We rip into this week's presidential debate and talk with former White House Director of Communication Anthony Scaramucci on how and why Republicans are campaigning to get Donald Trump out of office.PATREON:⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜ 91%If you enjoy the podcast, chip in with Patreon. We’re at about 91% of covering the costs of making the show. Every little bit helps.As a supporter you can watch the live video recording of the show on Thursday nights at 8pm, as well as access our Discord community – it’s kind of like a chat room where we bounce ideas around for the writing of the show throughout the week.Go Neutral:Another way to support A Rational Fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with Go Neutral. For every $90 sticker Go Neutral will buy 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the average yearly emissions for a car, and $5 of that comes to us. I registered my car last week and bought a Go Neutral sticker. Get yours with this special A Rational Fear link here: http://bitly.com/GoNeutralBig thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round, and David Bloustien.Dan Ilic 0:00Good morning, Louis.Lewis Hobba 0:01Morning Daniel. I soDan Ilic 0:02early in the morning for us. We don't ever do this at this time in the morning, but it's for a special occasion only.Lewis Hobba 0:07Yeah, it was a debate that was worthy of this kind of early rise.Dan Ilic 0:14And let's quickly wrap up that Patreon supporters, Fiona Parmenter, Phil Willis, Lizette, Sal, kovitch, Zen thoria West, have all chipped in the Patreon this week. Also a big special mention to Jason smail, who's taken up our top level Patreon subscription. He's paying 100 bucks a month for irrational fears. So thank you. He's one of the top of the tech guys in Silicon Valley. We travelled once to a marathon in bend in Oregon, to watch one of our friends do a marathon.Lewis Hobba 0:43I was waiting for the for the end of that I'm like, wait, wait, wait, you did a marathonDan Ilic 0:48to watch to watch someone do that or thought. This means we're up to 91% of covering on cost for the podcast or pretty much what Trump has paid in taxes in 2017. So jump onto patreon.com forward slash irrational fear to support the show. Another way to support irrational fear is to offset your carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 you could go neutral will buy 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets, which is about a yearly emissions for a car and five bucks of that comes to us to go neutral. Click on the link in the show notes. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the Euro nation. sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker 1:24A Russian mafia contains naughty words like bricks. Can bro.Unknown Speaker 1:30And comeUnknown Speaker 1:31and section 40 a rational fear recommended listening by immature audienceDan Ilic 1:37tonight after 232 seasons 2020 will be the final season of America it'll be replaced with reruns of Germany before it got good. And after the first presidential debate, the phrase come to Australia began trending on Twitter, like till Americans find out that we have three Guantanamo Bay's and far right extremist proud boys respond to Trump's request to stand back and stand by by stepping forward and standing on desk to shout out Captain my captain. It's the first of October 2020 in America. It was fun while it lasted. This is irrational fear.This is irrational fear. Thank you for joining us. I'm former Kentucky Attorney General Dan Ilic. Let's make our fee mungus for this week, if the world's got you down you can guarantee our first guest will get you down even further. He is one half of the American history podcast the dollar Dave Anthony. Thank you Dave. Is there something you can say something you could say to cheer up our listeners? No. And she's known for speaking dick jokes to power but you can see her each week in her show news broke you can hear each week on her podcast the Situation Room and you can smell her each week putting the bins out it's Francesca fiorentini.Francesca Fiorentini 3:01It is very true. Very true. I compost but I don't actually have a compost. So I just put it in the trash. And like someone who's just really trying to feel better about myself. You know, that's it, just so I'm gonna almost almost help the world.Dan Ilic 3:20That's what this podcast is all about. You're very much on Brad. And he's a man unaccustomed to being up this early. So work it is the host of Triple J. Dr. Louis harbour.Lewis Hobba 3:29Yeah, I don't consider this work. Dan, this is fun.Dan Ilic 3:31Good. Doesn't it doesn't count as work until I stopped paying you. Robert a little later on. We've got a very special interview with former White House press secretary turned anti Trump fundraiser Anthony Scaramucci. Yes, the Butch will be here he will be joining us. But first, we've got a new sponsor. It's a bit of a library. This one here we go. Get my library music. Going to the post office can be hard. There's always long lines white supremacists hanging out there to pre screen your mail and throw milk on you. And even if you do manage to post your mail in ballot who knows how long it's going to take to get to the correct precinct for counting. And those election folks are always making mistakes putting the wrong addresses on things. This election season, make your mail in voting easy with stamps.ru stamps that are you We'll send you out a book of stamps for free that look just like us postage and you can stick them all over your mail in ballot. They'll even send you the latest updated address labels to make sure that your ballot gets to the right place so that you know your vote will be counted by someone with Wagner on their breath. Head to stamps.ru today to get a free trial from now until November that stamps.ru use the offer code Biden wins to get a free ballot facts Shredder. Who else gives you a fax shredder? It faxes your ballot to an international number beginning with plus seven then transit. Mellon voting has never been more secure with stamps.ru. Well, I mean they do pay us so it's great to have their money. Okay. humungus let's talk about the debate. There have been so many moments over the last four years when Donald Trump has almost risen to meet the demands of his office. And I think we can all agree that during last night's presidential debate, Donald Trump finally became Fira. I say debate. But it was so confusing. I thought I'd tuned into the two old guys from the Muppets breaking up. To be honest, when you think about what's going on in America and the world right now, they really should have conducted the debate of resume that way. Not because of Coronavirus or anything like that. But chris wallace would have had access to a mute button. But we lay different people took different things from the debate like conservative coalition Trump supporters who and this is true, complained that Biden didn't answer any questions. I mean, they're not run. Dive, let's start with you. How you feeling about Biden, should he have answered More questions?Dave Anthony 5:49Oh, well, that's a tough one. There's a couple of things with Biden, first of all, it's hard to answer question when a man just keeps jabbering at you constantly. Like there's no way it's good. But also, Biden needs a lot of time to ramp into his questions, make some mistakes, correct course. stutters Dumbo, correct course. So he needs a really long, long runway, and then he gets to come up and then crash the plane and then taken off again. So it's hard for him just in general. But But he he did, I would I would give him a two out of 10.Dan Ilic 6:25Fred, how did you feel that the debate? I'm,Unknown Speaker 6:29I'm worse than I could have imagined, you know, and you don't like I'm sure the entire world wants to see someone fillet Donald Trump on the national international stage. But no one more than an American who has to live under this regime. Let's call it what it is. So it's like, it's just the biggest you get so sorry for me, you get so hard. Like you're just like, Oh, you're so ready to go. When you watch a debate. And then, you know, did I wish there were performance enhancing drugs? Because Biden could not bring it he couldn't get it? I mean, look, he's in his. It happens. You know, in your 70s I'm sure it's only natural, not judging. But it was it was really it's hard. It's always hard to watch whether it's Clinton who you know, was respectable, or Biden who tried to level with people but really couldn't. You know, as a comic, you're like, just get some zingers. Just get a couple zingers make fun of his $70,000Unknown Speaker 7:32expense on his hair. That's it.Unknown Speaker 7:35Yeah, he and also the, the makeup factor the fact that they don't like how could you? How could you sit there and know he spent 70,000 on his hair and not say what are you paying for your makeup? $5 like just hit the guy. It's so easy. It's so easy. He is a walking talking thing to mock. It would just be non stop with anybody who just had their mental mental acuteness together suchLewis Hobba 7:58a tough ask I I have no idea how you would prepare to debate Donald Trump because you can go low. But if you do once you get down to that sort of street fight, he's so much better. There's no one better at kicking people in the balls on the street than he is. You do have to try to like, be there. But just like he makes you fight your fight it is. It's like playing like kids sport like on the 12 soccer or something. Sometimes a really shit team will beat a really good team, just because the complete lack of organisation throws a good team off their game.Unknown Speaker 8:32Yeah, I would just say though, that there is a there is a kind of comedian and David Letterman is that type of comedian who in his autobiography described how they were the Funny Kids, and he was the guy who made fun of the Funny Kids. So you need that type of person who knows how to undermine everything he says, and just keep making fun of what he is and what he's doing. highlight what he's doing and and make it seem really stupid, as opposed to just those direct hits. You take what he's saying, and you throw it back at him.Lewis Hobba 9:06Let's dive up to Is heUnknown Speaker 9:11coming? No.Lewis Hobba 9:13no introduction. Made the president Dave LettermanDan Ilic 9:17great. What we need is another white 70 year old guyUnknown Speaker 9:21in the room together, maybe they can do this job.Dan Ilic 9:25I'll form some sort of Voltron with the rector.Unknown Speaker 9:31I think Al Franken would have been the perfect sort of human being to run against him if he wasn't latch. You know, that's a drop. Like that type of that type of guy.Dan Ilic 9:41It didn't stop Trump did it?Unknown Speaker 9:44It didn't. It didn't. I mean, it's hard.Dan Ilic 9:46It's kind of trumpian logic to kind of say someone will do it better but I it during the entire debate. I just couldn't help but think what if Warren was up there, I really felt like she would have been an incredible attack dog and would have been on the front foot and would have smiled at him. And outpaced him every step of the way.Unknown Speaker 10:03Yeah, I think Bernie Sanders, same thing, but more on policy, which is not really what you need, you really do need sort of style, and you need to shut him up. And I definitely think you know, Warren in her attack, even on Bernie, which came out of left field, yeah, very dinero star Gary and in my opinion, I was like, you know, good, fine. Like she could have definitely handled that. The one thing that it said about Biden, God, if there is a silver lining, it's that he actually does Listen, like one He's, uh, he, you know, cognitively, he might be, you know, slightly a little bit less sharp than he should be. But his hearings great. And if that's any sign for how he might govern, hey, that's pretty good. If we can ever get over the other side, you know, like, he hears things, he hears people he can listen. And he had to do all thatLewis Hobba 10:57hearing through the pieces that he put in. That's reallyUnknown Speaker 11:01it's such a sad thing. This year, you're saying it's good that he can hearLewis Hobba 11:10your bass here? It's the equivalent of kind of going like he's just recovering from a fall.Dan Ilic 11:18Was there a moment for either of you that really made the moment of the debate?Unknown Speaker 11:22Well, you know, I'm a big climate change guy. So watching the talk about climate change really made my head just kind of snap and explode. And I wanted to really jump into the TV at first slap Trump and then slap Biden, like it was really just a,Dan Ilic 11:34they both weren't very good on that at all. Like, I know, it goes both ways. There Biden in the same paragraph, said, Doug, well, the green New Deal, the green new deal will pay for itself. And then he backed it up saying, Oh, I don't back the green new deal at all he got, he got really flustered. He was like selling something, and then immediately discounting it in the same breath. It was pretty astounding. Emily Atkins from the hated newsletter, right? The climate change section was the only section that Trump didn't interrupt because he didn't know what to say, because he doesn't know shit. And nothing particularly more when they started talking about fuel economy standards as a way to make the environment better. And upon that question, Biden said, Why have you relaxed fuel economy standards that are going to create more pollution from cars and trucks? And then Trump went on this one minute read? He said, Well, I've got it in front of me, I'm just gonna write it out fine. Like, well, well, well, not really, because what's happening is the car is much less expensive, and it's much safer car and you talk it about a tiny difference. And then what would happen because of the cost of the car, you would have at least doubled and triple the number of cars purchased. We have the old slugs out there that are 1012 years old, if you did that the car would be safer, it will be much cheaper by 30 $500. Nothing about climate change or emissions. Yeah.Unknown Speaker 12:48Was there for I feel like there wasn't even a full sentence in there. He but let me just say, though, that he This is truly the logic they're trying to spin not the Trump administration has rollback 100 environmental regulations, they want us to die as quickly as possible. They want to burn the planet as quickly as possible. But I will say, buried in one of their like Transit Authority, sort of summaries on why they were rolling back the emissions. They said, it's too late. Like that's almost a quote, essentially, why we're making all this money and the planets going to hell anyway. So it was like, he knows and that was the other thing is Biden not being able to come back and being like, you think this guy gives a shit whether you live or die like you want? This this man who laughed in the face of the wildfires?Dan Ilic 13:36Trump talking about how people in Europe live in forest houses. That was pretty exciting. There's so many city forces. Yeah, there's like everyone in everyone in Europe lives in fucking Fern Gully. That's what that's all I took away from that.Unknown Speaker 13:51I was a city I was like, I worked for city city.Lewis Hobba 13:57This was advertised like they're all blue.Dan Ilic 14:01And one of the things that often comes up after debates like this is people will journalists mainly on Twitter go wow. The only winner of tonight's debate a comedians. Dave, comedians, the winners of moments like this in American politics.Unknown Speaker 14:14No, no. What the fuck? Listen, the reason that they say that is because of Jay Leno. Jay Leno. He everything everything went to just being dumb. And he just and he had the dancing ido judges when when OJ Simpson was on trial, it was like there was no morality. He just did whatever it took to get a laugh. And so since then, everyone's been like the comedian is gonna love this. No, the comedians actually have like morals and understanding. And so they get actually comedians are actually generally terrified of fascism, where other comedians support it, but most of us were pretty as a group against fascism. So we're not actually really thrilled about a debate in which a guy just flat out comes out as a fascist. Not not great. Not Huge fan.Unknown Speaker 15:00He's so hack. I mean, this is the thing this is I Trump is hack himself. He's a bad drunk, open mic comedy doing racist, sexist material that only gets a laugh because people are astounded he's even doing it. So that's like the laugh is like the asshole laugh. And I'm tired so boring. You can feel an audience sigh when you start to bring up the president because you're like, Ah, you can feel it in the room because nobody wants to be reminded the guy is his own satire. So why, you know eijiro one about a you know, the the people believe that there is a mysterious figure named q shrouded in darkness that runs a sex cult underground and is trying to topple Donald Trump or like, Yeah, man, we're living in bribes. Like that's,Lewis Hobba 15:50that's right there. We came here for fun. Yeah, it is. It is genius, though. And I know this is not like a new point. But that that is the hard thing that to get over and get around, which is how to deal with someone who it is boring to bring up his constant failure.Dan Ilic 16:08Yeah, totally. And it's also difficult to be a comedian against someone who is genuinely quite funny. Like he is he makes him read a bit. Trying to hit funny with funny is so difficult with someone that's already undercutting the office themselves. It's so it's so strange.Lewis Hobba 16:25And it's just very hard to me like that guy's a white supremacist when he's like, Yes, I'm a white supremacist. I get it. When there's no shame. You need shame. If it like this, without shame, there's nothing to stick to. It's just the throwing shit at shame Teflon pan.Unknown Speaker 16:42But I still want to scrape the bottom of that pan though. Like I think there's more to go and I look I want him out in November or excuse me, by the end of you know, he won't leave but you know what I'm saying? I in an ideal world by JanuaryDan Ilic 16:55in an ideal world after a long protracted Civil War sometime 2023 you know, it'd be greatUnknown Speaker 16:59you know, when stuff smouldering you know, I'd like to be able, but before he goes, I really do want to see what else he'll do for by being baited into it. He drank water on camera because people baited him into it because they said he couldn't. I think he wears adult diapers and I want to bait him into like, will he and won't his audience and his base just cheer and elation when they see the jockey and they you know, like the scene and 16 candles or whatever. They're holding up the underwear. WhatUnknown Speaker 17:32I was saying yesterday is when they were coming out and saying Biden is wearing an earpiece, Biden should have said you can inspect me for an earpiece. If we can expect inspect Donald for diapers and then just left Italy and that would be the whole conversation and it would end.Unknown Speaker 17:48Europe they live that far cities they call forest cities. They maintain their forests, they manage their forests. It's a forest city.Unknown Speaker 17:56Your fear is rational.Dan Ilic 17:58Our interview guest on this week's podcast shot to fame for 11 days when he was White House press secretary before being unceremoniously fired by Trump making him one of the most memorable x cast members from the apprentice West Wing condition ever. By day he manages $9 billion funds by not he's raising money for the Lincoln project and anti Trump political action committee that's run by Republicans. Welcome to irrational fear Anthony Scaramucci. It's good to be here. Thank you guys for having me on. Oh, it's great. You know, we've we've got Francesca fiorentini. We got Dave Anthony and Lewis hubby here to go. Just before we go what's what's the most appropriate way to address us at Anthony Mr. Scaramucci, the moochUnknown Speaker 18:36all three of those names are better than some of the other names that have been used. So you can go with any of those names still be fine. Yeah.Lewis Hobba 18:43What's your least favourite?Unknown Speaker 18:46Oh, this is typical Ozzie question right. So I have to use psyops on you now and say Scaramucci. Call me anything you want. It's all good. I just think it's ironic. That's like your Southern Southern Italians and southern Australians are very similar. So I think I'm picking it up. Yeah, bothDan Ilic 19:05are riddled with Coronavirus.Unknown Speaker 19:07I think it's funny. Anthony, you're on a podcast with someone who's got more of an Italian name than you do. Francesca fiorentini. So,Unknown Speaker 19:15I noticed that right away Francesca even have more syllables than me, because I have a little bit of syllable envy right now.Unknown Speaker 19:23Italian.Dan Ilic 19:24Let's talk a little bit about the Lincoln project merge. How does someone who worked at the White House end up campaigning against the man in the White House?Unknown Speaker 19:31Well, you know, I wrote a lot about it back in 2019. But the short answer is I've changed a lot. I think the at the end of the day, one of my liberal critics, I think it was on television, they said well, you know, he was talking about Mexicans and rapists and 2015. And so in 2019, you disavowed your support. Nothing about him changed and my response was, well, maybe he didn't change but I have changed it become more psychologically minded, I become more aware of the tribulations and the stress that he's putting on other people. I become more aware that the ends, frankly, do not justify the means this whole moral equivocation about policy and cognitive dissonance. And so the you know, the answer to the question is it got to a point where it became impossible to support them anymore and maintain your personal integrity.Dan Ilic 20:27You didn't know that when you went into the White House?Unknown Speaker 20:30That's a big question. No, see, but no, you're asking the same question that my liberal friends ask. And so this is the big that kind of dilemma. 63 million people did vote for him. So I think you have to pay close attention to Why? Because everybody has a different reason for voting for him. So my reasons were, I was a lifelong Republican, I was working for Jeb Bush, he dropped out of the race. There were two people running it was Secretary Clinton, or, or then Donald Trump. And I made the mistake of going with Donald Trump because I was overlooking. And again, I don't justify this only now you do is apologise for it, I made the mistake of overlooking some of his moral shortcomings and some of his verbal rhetoric up because I thought it was the better of two choices. So I have to own that mistake. You know, I'm not one of these guys, that's going to sit here and try to defend it. All I can do is apologise for it. And so when you say that, I didn't know that the answer is yes, I did know that. But you're down to two choices. Imagine all of us are on the publicly traded Board of a company. And you're hiring two people, and the philosophical things that you've been with your whole career. I'm a lifelong republican i my first vote was for ronald reagan in 1984. And so I went with, that's where you went wrong? And that was a mistake. What's that?Unknown Speaker 21:50I said, that's where you went wrong foot in the first place?Unknown Speaker 21:53Yeah, well, listen, I mean, you know, there's a lot wrong with the Republican Party. So there's no question about that. I think that the republican party now, whatever you thought of it under Ronald Reagan, it is a very last party under Donald Trump, it's become a full blown personality cold, as an example of that is we don't even have a party platform in the Republican Party. You can't even I can't even tell you what it stands for anymore, because the party platform is whatever Mr. Trump wants. That's our party platform. So Karen and Vlad Amelie wash their way. And if you if you love the United States, maybe you do, maybe you don't. But if you do love the United States, I can tell you, we're our most successful when we have two very strong parties that are vigorously but civilly debating with each other and advancing the ball for progress both for the global community and for the citizens of the United States. And we're not doing that rightDan Ilic 22:41now. So you now you're fundraising for the Lincoln project? How is that process going? And how are the Lincoln project going in general, what what's their plan heading into the next five weeks?Unknown Speaker 22:52Well, I was on last night, we did live streaming before the debate, we raised a tonne of money last night, we've been doing a lot of zoom calls and gatherings remotely. And it's been very successful, they've raised 10s of millions of dollars. And their plan basically, is to eviscerate this son of a bitch. And over the next five weeks, they're going to do that. And if you look at the if you look at the ads that came out after the debate last night, I think these are very successful is what I would say to my FET friends that are Democrats, you guys got to knuckle up, you got a hard knuckle up, you have to understand the adversary better. You know, the Vice President did a good job last night. But you know, as I said to some members of his campaign, he needed an extra slice of pizza and a little bit of a spray tan or sit in the hot sun a little bit. You know, he he he needs to look more vigorous in debate number two,Dan Ilic 23:45and that's a very Italian yield thing to say I get a spray tan.Unknown Speaker 23:50Something he needed something last night because he looked to pay I was telling you the truth. He looked too pale and it looks like he's lost too much weight. You know? And you know, Francesca has probably the same mom as me. My mom has like optical nerve damage. She thinks everybody's thin, you know, you could show up 200 pounds overweight. She's like have a canola, you know, but but in the Vice President's case, he needs to be optically way more vigorous than he was last night. You know, and the good news is, you know, Donald Trump showed up the first thing I thought of when Trump showed up, he looked like the 1981 orange Corvette that I was trying to buy in high school, where unfortunately couldn't come up with enough money to buy it. That was the first thing I looked at. I mean, he literally had almost like an auto spray paint on his face. So he was optically also very disturbing.Unknown Speaker 24:37What's the breakdown of how much money from the link and project is actually going to ads and stuff? Because there's a lot of people online that say that you guys are just sucking in the cash.Unknown Speaker 24:47Yeah. Well, you'd have to ask the guys only remember, I'm not on the masthead of the Lincoln project. I am raising money for them. And I'm involved in a lot of the TV streaming but I have not taken a salary from the Lincoln Park. I'm not technically an affiliate. So meaning when you file for a packet United States, I'm not one of the name people on the pack, but I am somebody to supporting them in fundraising for them. That breakdown you'd have to get from them. I honestly don't care, whatever they're paying themselves, I think they're totally worth it. They have had the hardest knuckle ads in this election cycle, and they're having an impact on Trump, because I understand the President's personality once you're inside his melon, you can get him to do a lot of things that are mistakes for him and a lot of unforced errors. And I think the Lincoln project has been very successful about that. But because I'm not an officer of the Lincoln project, I don't know the answer of what those percentages are.Dan Ilic 25:43I like the idea. There's a boardroom somewhere with a whiteboard with a picture of a melon on it, and how can we get into the melon?Lewis Hobba 25:50Like So again, I youUnknown Speaker 25:51know, I can tell you, I can tell you an axiom that is totally true, because he lives in a reality distortion field, if you can get on the fox news channel, and you can speak with great truth and great clarity to his base. It sends him into orbit, literally, he's the atomic bomb emoji coming out of somebody's head, and then he'll start coming after you he'll start tweeting about you. I mean, he's still you know, he's still attached to me, he'll the last time he tweeted at me, I was on the fox news channel, explaining the destruction that he's caused to the US economy, to the destruction that he's caused to our healthcare system. Now, he's wait made us weaker, as a country as it relates to our global alliances. And so he went berserk and then started tweeting at me which, you know, listen, I'm totally capable of handling, you know, these these Republican senators. I pray for these guys, because they're very, very weak people. I mean, they're, they're intimidated by somebody that won the vote by 78,000 votes in three states. He's got them believing that he's ronald reagan from 1984. And they don't want to be tweeted at and it's sort of, you know, it's a profile in cowardice, as opposed to what Kennedy was talking about a profile encouraged.Unknown Speaker 27:03Mr. Scaramucci, I just have a question for you. Look, I get you're an anti Trump Republican. But arguably, he's getting the republican agenda done. He's about to confirm an anti choice, anti immigrant, anti ACA, Supreme Court Justice, the third in his tenure, what happens if he gets reelected? Ultimately, isn't the Lincoln project just kind of down without agenda? They just don't like who the the front man is. But really, if he gets reelected, you guys are probably going to go along with it because you're getting your way anyway. So where's the moral in that, I guess is what I want to do.Unknown Speaker 27:41I I don't see it that way. And I and I know that that's a hardcore liberal. And, you know, forgive me for saying it this way, a little bit of a cynical perspective. I don't see it that way. The the conservative agenda. That's the radical conservative agenda that you just described. That's not my agenda. If you've read stuff that I have written, I worked with the republicans in New York to equalise marriage in the state of New York, and then I work with Rob Reiner, and Chad Gryphon, on the prop eight project to nationalise the marriage equality movement. And so that's a libertarian perspective where somebody that's conservative, and I joke with some of these Danville evangelicals, you guys want a smaller government everywhere, but in my bedroom, you want a larger government in my bedroom. Moreover, the Republican Party under Trump is not classically conservative. It is a socially conservative party, which I disagree with, by the way, because that's anti libertarian ism, is a socially conservative party, but it's a quite fiscally Liberal Party. They want to deficit spend into the stratosphere, and they want to give corporations these gigantic give backs in these gigantic checks. And so for me, that's not classic conservatism. conservatism, for me is to create a platform of equal opportunity for people. I don't believe in socialism, I don't want outcomes capped. But I certainly want people that were born through no fault of their own in inner cities or in poor areas of the country, to have a platform of equal opportunity. So you really study libertarianism and conservatism. There should be a packages of services for people that come from the government, including universal health care, including universal basic income, those things are quite libertarian. If you really understand them, I would encourage you to look at something that Andrew Yang has written about them because, you know, I didn't pick my upbringing. My parents were blue collar, they were on educated, but they hustled and they worked very, very hard to put us in the middle class. And my dad had this aspirational idea about his blue collar life. He thought one of his kids would live the arc of the American dream. If you go back into the area I grew up in. those families have converted from economically aspirational Economically desperation also. So true conservatives would look at that situation and say, Okay, how can we fix that situation? What type of policies, what type of infrastructure, what type of jobs training? Do we need to create a platform of equal opportunity. But once you've got that equal opportunity, then where you go with it is is up to you. It shouldn't be capped on that on the upside. So yes, I hear you. That is a radical view. If the president wins, he will destroy our democracy. And so I don't accept the fact and nor do my friends at the Lincoln project, except the fact that Oh, we're just going to enjoy the fact that he's president and we'd like this Supreme Court that that Supreme Court pick will likely destabilise the social contract that we are in in America right now. And 75% of the people in America do not want Roe v. Wade overturned, they don't want marriage equality overturned. And this is a fringe thing for our society, I think it's very, very dangerous. So I see the republican party as a dinosaur that's about to go extinct. If they reelect President Trump, you will be with an ageing group of people that are buying my pillows and catheters in between foxnews ads, that's what you're going to be left with. I would likeUnknown Speaker 31:17this are good catheters.Unknown Speaker 31:21Next to I left, that the thing you put on your face when you have like sleep apnea, but my point is, I want that party to expand. And I want that party to expand demographically. And I want that party to expand with the beautiful mosaic of colours of the United States. And I want people to think about conservatism differently than the way Trump is describing it. But that is a cynical view of conservatism. And there's a lot of people in that party that hold that view.Dan Ilic 31:45And I reject that view, it'd be really interesting to say how you might support universal health care once Biden wins the election, at least carry it.Unknown Speaker 31:55What do you mean, I will remember that the vice pres is very smart guy. He's calling for the maintenance of private insurance. And he's calling for the expansion of Obamacare. If you remember, I supported Governor Mitt Romney in 2012. And when he was governor of the state of Massachusetts, he developed something that was called romney care, right, which ultimately evolved into Obamacare. Now, we can disagree with elements of Obamacare. But I'll tell you guys something. The medicine in the United States got socialised in 1986, by Ronald Reagan. And how did that happen? He signed an obscure piece of legislation in 1986. That forced every emergency room doctor in every hospital in the country that if you walked in, and you were sick, and you came into the emergency room, they had a moral and legal obligation to take care of you. And so, you know, we we've had it, we've had this medical nationalisation, if you will, we have to come up with a more propitious way to allocate the capital and make it more efficient. But we've got to get down can't be the last nation, Western industrialised nation that doesn't have that health care.Unknown Speaker 33:03So we should I think the answer, if I'm understanding you correctly, is to tax billionaires like 90%, like we did back in the 40s.Unknown Speaker 33:14Well, you gotta be careful, I, again, I have no problem paying taxes. But I think you got you have to be careful because my money is not in a swimming pool in my backyard and hundred dollar bills. My money is spread out into a lots of companies that are creating a lot of jobs. And so what happens is, when you tack somebody at 90%, they start to curb their behaviour. And they start to do things like move their money around to avoid those taxes. And so you want to make sure that you're hitting the intersection of the tax code, where you're incentivizing people to do things that are in the bandwidth of the public good. And you're not causing their mobilisation. Look at what's going on in some of these blue states. People are migrating to the, to the red states that have no income taxUnknown Speaker 33:56on mostly corporations. But yes,Unknown Speaker 33:59listen, you know, my friend, David Tepper, he was 100 and $80 million of the New Jersey tax revenues. One person with his hedge fund. He wanted a tax break from them. They said, No, he moved. And he moved to Miami, he took the hundred and $80 million with the race to the bottom. Yeah, you know, I think I think don't here here's a message I would say to everybody on this podcast, don't get miss a locked into your point of view. Because what ends up happening is when your missile lock, you'll make this very same mistakes that I've made. When you're overly missile locked, you're not seeing it from the other side, you're not seeing the other person's perspective. And that's how we got into the problem that we're in right now. That's why we're so polarised. And that's why we go after each other so far.Unknown Speaker 34:43Well, I mean, another reason we're polarised is because we have been living under Neo liberalism since really hardcore since 1980. And so what that has caused is massive inequality that hasn't existed in a developed nation since the French Revolution, which didn't end Great. So It's actually not my political beliefs as much as me having lived under it for now, you know, going on 40 years as being politically aware, and watching a country dissolve, because all the social safety nets have been removed because people don't want to pay taxes, and it's really simple. Everyone should pay their fair share, and billionaires aren't millionaires overnight, and we see what Trump he gets paid $750 in taxes, and everybody else,Unknown Speaker 35:27we have to pay tonnes of taxes. Why? Because we don't have because I can't buy a golf course.Unknown Speaker 35:33Book. I'm gonna recommend a book on the podcast, if you guys know why it's called American amnesia. And it's a very practical book. It's not necessarily a less base book or right base book. It's not about left or right policy, but it's about right or wrong policy. And it's fairly centrist. And it is making your case by the way, it is making your case that we disavowed the things that got us to where we are, I am the product of a very good public school system. You can't solve the education crisis in the United States without activating public school teachers and working with their unions to enhance the quality of education for these people. You're not going to get there with charter schools, you're not going to get there with conservative jingoism or Betsy DeVos. Okay, but you can get there, we have the right technology, we have the right skill sets, and we have the right capability. And you can convince people that that is actually not necessarily a conservative principle or a liberal principle. But what a great practicality, someone who was a despicable human being Henry Ford, as an example, he was a racist. He was he had a picture of Adolf Hitler on his desk. But he was a pretty magnificent social engineer. He said once and I'll share it with everybody who said, Look, I'm going to pay my workers enough money, so that they can buy the car that they are producing. Moreover, they're going to have a single family house, and they're going to be tied to a very good school system. This way, all these blue collar people will feel aspirational. And they won't come after me in my mansion with tiki torches and pitchforks. And so heUnknown Speaker 37:08also had he also actually hired last actually hired men to beat up union members so that he hired he actually hired men to beat up union members. I mean, his his right hand man was one of the most brutal people in the country at the time, and he was a bigAnthony Scaramucci 37:26I'm giving him credit for an idea. I'm sure that there was mentality in setting up those unions. You know, Roosevelt was against them before he was for them, you will find that everybody has some level of incentives and disincentives, and there is no hero to a man or a woman's valet. You know, if you really study Abraham Lincoln, he was against the abolishment of slavery in the beginning, if you really study him, he wanted to move the African Americans back to Africa. Okay, so he's not a perfect person. Jefferson wasn't Washington obviously wasn't, I certainly am not maybe the four of you are. But here's what I would say to you. Here's what I would say to you. If we go after each other, we go after each other, we're not going to solve the problems. And so there's great ideas on the left. There are some still good ideas on the right, the stuff that princess is suggesting I don't like at all. And so last thing I would say on this topic, Francesca if he wins, he is a threat to the core institutions of our democracy. And so if he wins, you have to look at it from that hierarchy, my patriotism, and my love of country. Is that a way higher order of operation than my partisanship. And so what I find so shocking about this whole thing is as this is unfolded, there are many men and women that have decided that they're clutching a personal power, and they're clutching to the partisanship, nature of this thing is more important than their love of country. So the good news though, is I remain optimistic that there's more people that see it the way we do and want him out than people that see him as somebody that they want to stay with. One last thing before you go, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, his book came out and she said, Wow, wobbu she writes while we're on route to the gemba, a mooch announced I'm proud to report I cross my made a major item off my bucket list today. I assumed he would say something like riding on Air Force One, but instead the mooch said, he just took it taken a huge shift in the White House. Well, I think I remember. I remember using that word, but I think I could have said done. Fred seska. Let me turn it over to you. Do you have any brothers? IUnknown Speaker 39:40Yeah, I do. What am I supposed to be the voice of being couth on this? I know. Women you know women take down that. Oh, yeah, women. Here's the thing about women's bundles. Women's bundles are amazing.Unknown Speaker 39:55Actually, I was very proud ofUnknown Speaker 39:58it. And I'm just saying Is your Italian brothers probably would identify with me and have empathy for my feeling of having that on my bucket list since I was age 14. But anyway, let me just put it this way it was the start of a movement, obviously.Dan Ilic 40:12It was also the end of a movement as well.Unknown Speaker 40:17That experience for me as painful as it was and in oftenUnknown Speaker 40:24it was very enlightening. Not the shit I'm talking about.Unknown Speaker 40:31I mean, if we're going to talk about the shift, the shift was fantastic. Okay, I'm still very proud of it. I own it. And if you have follow up questions, I'm ready to take those as well.Unknown Speaker 40:40I do Did you did you text someone while you were shittingUnknown Speaker 40:44No, no, I don't I definitely don't do that because I'm a little bit of a neat freak that way I don't really use my phone and I'm on the crapper. But God washed my hands and I was heading for the convoy that was heading out to air force one I did text my 28 year old son to let him know of the accomplishment. I think it was very proud of me as his father.Dan Ilic 41:04Well, most thanks so much for joining us on irrational fear. Do you have anything to plug before we go?Unknown Speaker 41:08Well, no, no, listen, guys, guys, I listen to the to the Reverend podcast and I love it. But read that book. Dave Anthony, I think you'll enjoy it American amnesia. It talks about it talks about the need for the reestablishment of that social contract that you're gonnaUnknown Speaker 41:23look at a duck money if you read the book.Unknown Speaker 41:27Well, I I read dark money. Jane Mayer is a brilliant writer. I think that his her Opus her and I are very close friends. I've helped her on a lot of her stories. And dark money, I think is her Opus. I think that's going to be one of the seminal books of that 40 year period that you're discussing 1980 2020 and that and that book speaks to the need for change and real conservatives don't like crony capitalism, and they don't like all that special interest money corrupting the system and real conservatives. And remember the father of progressivism was Teddy Roosevelt who happened to be a Republican. They break up monopolies real conservatives recognise that monopoly power is actually predatory. It stifles innovation, and it keeps people down and it needs to be broken up and revitalised. And real conservatives actually study that stuff. And they don't just take money from special interest and do what they want, under the cover of conservatism.Dan Ilic 42:24Thanks, Mitch, we'll let you go and we'll finish off our show.Unknown Speaker 42:26Well, I mean, we had to leave it on the deuce though, right.Unknown Speaker 42:33I was going in the right direction. Francesca was starting to like me, then you had to bring up the deuce Jesus Christ.Unknown Speaker 42:43Listening to a rational seer was a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck. That was the worst debate I have ever seen. Say it like it isDan Ilic 42:56that was a shit show. Fred and Dave so great to have two big powered brains on with a niche that wasUnknown Speaker 43:05them bringing the meeting we were being super fair. We had some clips but he was like very like see your you hateful lot likeUnknown Speaker 43:16he knows his audience right? He knows this centrist audience really just wants to say that thing where they're like you guys are mean and you guys are mean let's meet in the middle. And it's like No, dude, those days are gone. There's no more meeting in the middle with any of these people like but he knows that's what the centrists want to hear that so he'sUnknown Speaker 43:32getting money for like show me like Lincoln project if you're gonna retake the republican party and actually prove that you aren't pieces of shit show me more than ads like you're talking about the money like do it then do it because I bet you your ass if he if he wins they're gonna go away the Lincoln project will go away they'll just be like well guess what reality is now dupa do like they're gonna fuckingDan Ilic 43:55Lincoln project is not too dissimilar to West Wing where it's like it is a it's almost like this shot in Freud or s liberal fantasy that these people exist and people are buying Yes. And it's not quite it's not quite for conservatives but it is for liberals to to think that these people are conservative and they're buying into the shot and Friday. It's comedy gaslighting.Lewis Hobba 44:14It's the episode of The West Wing that I don't know if you've got to Dave where they get the the eight the like the republican the sorry, the conservative judge in and they all think he's gonna be the devil. And then they're all like, No, he's actually very smart.Unknown Speaker 44:29Yeah. What's yourUnknown Speaker 44:33what's that podcast called Dave? It's called The West Wing thing. Nice. It's so funny cuz me and him started out we like had a long talk and like we can't upset the writers. We just have to play politics with this as far as writing careers are going and we started like being like, Yeah, he's a good writer, blah, blah. And then like six episodes in we're like, this guy's a misogynist piece of shit.Unknown Speaker 44:55turns and we're just like, fuck this guy.Lewis Hobba 44:58He was better when he was on cocaine.Unknown Speaker 45:02The thing about talking about conservatives and like that I've been living under it my whole life it doesn't exist so glad you have your little Fairyland idea what conservative is but it's never been around in my life so let me know when that kicks in with all of your conservative presidents and your conservative senate I don't know when it kicks inUnknown Speaker 45:21idolising Reagan is just like like his entirely you know, we believe in a social safety net like calling black women welfare queens and accusing them of eating steaks every day. Oh yeah, yeah. reaganomics you know.Unknown Speaker 45:35We used to have our press secretary come out and laugh at people dying of AIDS ha ha ha conservatism you know I'm Reagan was a fucking monster Reagan was so exact thing Trump was as a little less crass.Unknown Speaker 45:49That's exactly right.Lewis Hobba 45:51I remember listening to Dave your, your podcasts on Reagan listening to the dollar upon Reagan. And as an Australian, like who don't he's the only real thing of Reagan was like a, you know, comedians doing the imitation or like he used to be an actor or whatever. I was sick. Sick. Yeah, it was the it was nonstop. It was a full like, hour and a half body blow of disgust.Unknown Speaker 46:17Yeah, he's, he's a monster and Trump is 100% his heir apparent. And the real problem that we have is that liberals have no memory and don't know how to hold a grudge.Lewis Hobba 46:31I believe we call it American Asia. Yeah.Unknown Speaker 46:35a grudgeUnknown Speaker 46:36This is what I'm saying that like I was just think about that today. Like the Bush years, eight years, two wars, two plus fours. Like all I we absolutely should have gone after him for war crimes. But like, after eight years of bush after four years of Trump, how much more do you want to think about these people likeDan Ilic 46:57you? And the easiest way to erase that is easiest way to erase that is to paint some terrible paintings and go on and talk about let's forget about the war crimes. You've got pesto.Unknown Speaker 47:11I mean, you really have to you have to prosecute the bankers, you have to prosecute the george bush's of the world, and you have to suffer through that. Because if you don't, well, you get because now there is no rule of law. And when you say Trump is breaking the law, all those people go What about the fucking bankers? You didn't do anything about? What about the war you didn't do anything about? So you know, what's your argument? Where's your moral sort of ground? I'mUnknown Speaker 47:35just saying, I don't want to think about him anymore. But yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right.Dan Ilic 47:40Look on that nut. You know, we did had two other stories to get to, but you know, we're already going over time, so why even bother? That's irrational fear. Big thanks to our fear mongers this week. The mooch Francesca fiorentini, Dave Anthony and Louis haba. Do you guys have anything to plug Francesca?Unknown Speaker 47:57Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at frannie FeO and watch the Situation Room every Sunday night.Dan Ilic 48:03bitchu ation room. It's just like a rational fear. But it's got much better graphics. It's really good. It's excellent. That's that's not hard. And Dave, you want to plug anything,Unknown Speaker 48:14my podcast at all by the second podcast, the West Wing thing which I do with Oscar nominated writer Josh Olson, in which we discuss how the West Wing melted all of these brains of people who are liberals and are now in charge of our country, and they don't know what to do because they think that's how politics works.Dan Ilic 48:36Are you talking about specifically they attack?Unknown Speaker 48:39I would say Pelosi Schumer, I would say Obama's entire ministration was a huge victim of westwing brain. There's a lot that I would say most of the democrats that are in charge,Unknown Speaker 48:50saying the podsafe people just meanUnknown Speaker 48:54absolutely. podsafe guys are some of the worst in their books actually describe how they, you know, would have parties and talk about which one was Toby which moves Josh? Like they're there. They're all playing. They're doing cosplay for West Wing as opposed to actually governing. And they're getting their asses kicked because of it. And we're all suffering because I sawDan Ilic 49:11a great tweet from Australia and notorious Twitter Dan Dolan, who said, Well, at least the crooked media guys gave Biden five stars for this debate.That was very erudite from from Daniel Lewis, you got anything to plug buddy?Lewis Hobba 49:28No, Dan, same old.Dan Ilic 49:30Big thanks to Bertha Foundation, road mics, and our Patreon subscribers and Big thanks to Dave bluestein for writing support on this episode and our producer Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of goodbye.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.