Real Men Feel with Andy Grant

For the first time, Real Men Feel is on location. This week's show checks in from Covenant House's Sleep Out in Boxboro, Massachusetts. Andy took part in a fundraising event for Covenant House that involved giving up his bed for one night to raise funds to get more young people off the streets. People choose to spend a night outside to help those who don't have a choice. We talk with Jill Vorndran, Covenant House's Chief Development Officer. Topics and Questions 2:59 - What is going on tonight? 3:25 - Is this a global event? 3:54 - What is the point of the Sleep Out? 4:34 - What is the age range of Covenant House clients? 5:30 - What are you saving people from? 8:12 - Is this an annual event? 9:38 - It is an issue of individual circumstances that brings someone to Covenant House. You can create a Sleep Out event at any time by visiting CovenantHouse.org. Andy shares his immense gratitude for all his blessing. You can contribute to the cause until the end of the year. Please visit https://www.sleepout.org/participant/andygrant "I attempted to treat Friday like a typical day, but it wasn't possible. I knew I'd get less sleep at the Sleep Out, but I didn't expect how little I got. My thinking and energy were a struggle. I fell asleep twice in my office chair while attempting to work. I couldn't hit the gym, conversations were a challenge, and editing this week's show took much longer than it would normally. I fell asleep around 9 pm Friday and slept straight till 7 am Saturday. This was all from only one night on the streets. Many homeless people have full-time jobs, are full-time students, or even both, and can't afford a safe place to live. They deal with the daily battle of never having enough sleep and struggling to think clearly. If you are not in that situation, please give some compassion to those who are." Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

Real Men Feel hosts conversations that most men aren't having but that all men can benefit from. My favorite sort of guest is someone who shares their journey and how they are now serving people. That's what we have for you today. My guest is healer, coach, and men's group facilitator Justin Gagne. We talk about seeking more depth, being called to your purpose, loss, grief, anger, and recovery from alcoholism. Justin's experience in the darkness made him want to help others through that faster. We explore being an empathetic child, the gifts of Covid isolation, and doing the inner work to become a better version of yourself. Justin expresses his anger over losing his mother and the resulting spiritual awakening. Including powerful experiences and lucid dreams with his guides. We discuss the importance of embracing your masculine and feminine energy. Justin shares how his father was a role model for service to others, showing him what soft, kind, gentle men could look like. Topics and Questions 1:04 - What prompted you to want to lead men's groups? 1:52 - Have you always been seeking more depth? 2:22 - What experiences let you know you were being called to something? 4:04 - What were you angry about? 6:40 - What was the turning point for you? 7:45 - Could you work on yourself while drinking or only after? 11:57 - The healing power of being of service. 13:00 - What were your experiences as a kid? 15:52 - What first got you into healing? 19:31 - What does divine masculine mean to you? 21:53 - What man had the most significant impact on you? 23:36 - Does he know how much he means to you? 24:37 -What are you proud of? 26:10 - What are you looking forward to? 26:45 - How does someone know the right direction? 29:45 - Is there anything you wish you had learned at a younger age? 31:08 -What is one thing you wish more men knew? 33:02 - How can people learn more or connect with you? Connect with Justin at https://www.facebook.com/TheSavingLight Grab some gear at realmenfeel.org/swag. Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

Right now, I should be volunteering at a New Warrior Training Adventure, a weekend event run worldwide by the ManKind Project. But a couple of weeks ago, Oct 11 to be exact, it was canceled by MKP USA. All the planned New Warrior Training Adventures, NWTAs, were canceled in the US for the rest of 2022. The cancellations were due to charges of cultural appropriation from a group of Native American elders called Spirit. First off, let me clarify that I am a middle-aged white American man. I have no insight into what it means to be Native American, or any other race or culture for that matter. I am sharing my opinions and asking questions. I am not representing any other individual or group. And I'm willing to be wrong about everything I think I know. When I discovered that all NWTAs were canceled, I was shocked, disappointed, and hurt. My NWTA was back in October 2016. There was a lot of Native American ritual and ceremony, and it was presented very respectfully, honoring where they came from and giving full acknowledgment. It was stressed how much training ManKindProject (MKP) men had with the Lakota people to learn what we would be doing. I thought cultural appropriation meant taking something from another culture and claiming it as your own. MKP never did that in anything I was involved in. Nobody in MKP claimed to have invented the sweat lodge or any other rituals I took part in. The sweat lodge seems to be the main point of contention, but it is just one of many different events that make up the NWTA weekend. My brief research found that many cultures have used sweat lodges for purification, healing, and relaxation. Most commonly known are Native Americans, but also the Mayans, Aztecs, and across Europe as early as the 5th century. https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Sweat_lodge MKP Statement included: "A public campaign against the ManKind Project over concerns about cultural appropriation launched in the evening of Oct 6, 2022. One aspect of the campaign encourages public protests at NWTA locations across the country. The locations of our events were published. After assessing the content on the website, it became apparent that to proceed would put MKP participants and volunteers at risk." America is a melting pot of hundreds of cultures. Borrowing from other cultures is inevitable; it can be positive. To me, it is the evolution of society. Centuries ago, people came to North America and saw natives as less than. The letter from Spirit (https://www.spiritprotection.org/letter-to-mkp) makes it clear that native people are still hurting. To me, MKP has been trying to honor the native practices they use, but it is not seen that way by all native leaders. You can do the right thing and still have it be the wrong thing. Earlier this year, the ManKind Project USA published a statement, “Acknowledging and Evolving Our Relationship with Indigenous Peoples and Practices.” Note: NWTA  events continue to happen outside of the US. Connect with Andy and RMF Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

#RealMenFeel ep 276 Gender Role Socialization | How Men Learn To Be Men Real Men Feel hosts conversations that most men aren't having but that all men can benefit from. Today we explore the ways we learn how to be men. Much of that comes from a life-long socialization process, specifically gender role socialization. My guest Dr. Bill DeFranc is a licensed psychologist who has worked in schools, hospitals, group practices, and college counseling centers and had a parenting consulting business. He was an Instructor at Harvard Medical School and has published research on men's gender role socialization. We discuss the positive and negative outcomes of gender role socialization and why men often hold themselves to a more rigid definition of manliness. Bill shares how his research impacted his being a father and the one thing he wishes more men knew. "If you can't see shades of grey, it's going to be a problem." Dr. Bill DeFranc Listen in to discover the most common issues Dr. DeFranc sees in clients related to men's gender role conflict and the shame it can create. Topics and Questions 0:55 - What is gender role socialization? 1:31 - What are some common ways that men are socialized? 2:43 - Does socialization ever stop? 3:34 - Is it difficult to go against your gender socialization? 5:57 - What are some problematic issues for me? 8:22 - What are some beneficial outcomes of gender role socialization for men? 11:12 - Is age a significant factor in the impact of receiving gender role messages? 12:13 - What is toxic masculinity? 14:14 - What is gender role conflict? 15:08 - What got you interested in this? 17:08 - Did anything surprise you in your research? 18:33 - How did that research affect you as a father? 22:11 - Is it each generation's job to push back at their socialization? 24:30 - Do you have advice for parents raising boys? 28:08 - What issues are you seeing in male clients? 31:05 - Who had the most significant impact on you learning what it means to be a man? 32:54 - Did attending an all-male school give you a more rigid version of masculinity or a more expanded one? 34:55 - What is one thing you wish more men knew? 36:17 - What's the best way to find out more about you? Grab some men's gear at realmenfeel.org/swag. Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

Men are told it isn't good to fear things, but you can't be brave or courageous without first recognizing fear. And I've repeatedly found that great things happen when I walk boldly into my fear and do what I'm afraid of. I put out the call in the private Real Men Feel Facebook group for anyone interested in doing a regular guy chat - that means no agenda, nothing to sell or promote- an average dude who has something to share. I said, "If you are interested but terrified, that's a great sign to say, Yes!" My guest for this Regular Guy Chat is husband, father, brother, retired IT professional, and present-day wellness warrior, Ken MacKeen. We talk about trauma, shame, selfishness, and also the incredible personal growth possible on the other side of fear. Ken shares how childhood abuse and abandonment affected his entire life and what happened when he stopped covering up his feelings with alcohol. Thankfully, he realized that solitude, isolation, and loneliness are not good places to be. Ken shares his "one asshole at a time" rule too. Topics and Questions 1:17 - What made you say yes to being on Real Men Feel? 1:50 - Are there specific fears about being here or is more generalized? 2:59 - What was your life like growing up? 5:03 - Were you conscious of this trauma as a child? 5:43 - At what age did you start drinking? 7:15 - Were your siblings treated differently than you? 9:00 - Do you want relationships with your family? 11:15 - Besides alcohol, how did you deal with the shame? 12:17 - What were the messages you got about your emotions while growing up? 13:00 - How was it being a father? 14:40 - Would you have changed anything if you hadn't received the OUI? 16:14 - What man had the biggest impact on you? Tell me about him. 17:15 - What are you most proud of? 18:18 - Can you take any ownership when your sons are complimented? 21:50 - When something triggers you now, what do you think you are angry about? 23:08 - What are you looking forward to? 24:08 - Is there anything you wish you had learned at a younger age? 27:38 - How do you plan to speak up and share more? Grab some gear at realmenfeel.org/swag Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

At one point in my youth, I left a mental hospital against medical advice because I had tickets to see Motley Crue. I figured if I was alive, I was going to that show. There's a longer tale about how I got home and the reaction of family and friends, but the net result is that I was kicked out of my house. I was homeless. Thankfully, I had neighbors who gave me a couch for a few days while I figured shit out, so I never had to live on the streets, but I thought that might be what happened. Through college and beyond, friends and I sometimes slept in city parks or hotel stairwells while traveling because we were broke. But that had a sense of adventure and playfulness, nothing like actual homelessness.  I share this because I want to talk about homelessness, specifically Youth Homelessness. And I don't just want to talk about it. I'm going to do something about it and let you know how easily you can as well. In the United States, 4.2 million young people will face homelessness this year alone. Kids can end up on the streets because their home isn't safe or they are battling addiction, depression, or any mental health challenge. Living on the streets doesn't help any of it. Homelessness can lead to worse addictions, sex trafficking, and suicide. Covenant House, is a charitable organization that I've donated to for years. They empower young people to overcome homelessness by providing them safe housing, food and clothing, and relentless support.  No one is ever turned away without support of some kind. And their services and programs are available at no cost. https://www.covenanthouse.org Perhaps you are wondering. Why is he talking about Covenant House so much? Because, for the first time, I'm an active participant in their annual fundraiser, the Sleep Out. The Sleep Out happens on November 17 around the world. People give up their beds for one night to raise money to get more kids off the streets for good. Please consider donating to my Sleep Out at https://www.sleepout.org/participant/andygrant By searching for my name, you can also find me on the sleepout.org home page. I'm talking about this because a planned guest had to cancel at the last minute. Today is October 7, and moments ago, I discovered that October 10 is World Homeless Day, so this is very synchronistic. Sleep Out is our chance to shine a light on the youth homelessness crisis and raise critical funds that help Covenant House provide young people with around-the-clock support. The awareness and funds raised translate to things like new sheets, computers, meals, and best-in-class care for youth overcoming homelessness. visit https://www.sleepout.org Donate to me at https://www.sleepout.org/participant/andygrant By searching for my name, you can also find me on the sleepout.org home page. I need your help to smash through my 5K goal. Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | youtube.com/realmenfeel

Real Men Feel ep273 No Lucks Given | Mental Health In The Kitchen Today Real Men Feel ventures into the kitchen to talk with Chef Brother Luck. Brother is an award-winning chef, entrepreneur, and advocate for the pursuit of self-discovery. He is on a mission to prove to others that while our past is forever a part of who we are, it does not determine the people we become. Brother has appeared on Chopped, Beat Bobby Flay, and Top Chef. He also owns two restaurants, Four by Brother Luck, and Lucky Dumpling, located in his home, Colorado Springs. And he has just released his memoir, No Lucks Given. We discuss courage, vulnerability, mentorship, and the freedom of tears. TRIGGER WARNING: We also talk about suicide attempts and the death of Anthony Bordain. Sometimes the bravest thing a man can do is ask for help. Topics and Questions 1:05 - What first got you interested in cooking? 2:54 - Before chefs, was there anyone in your life who told you, "good job"? 3:25 - What told you that you were following the wrong people? 4:05 - Traditionally, women predominantly do cooking, yet most famous chefs are men. Where does that discrepancy comes from? 5:57 - Is it difficult to leap from chef to celebrity chef? 7:05 - Your memoir is titled, No Lucks Given; what does that mean? 8:51 - Was perseverance natural for you? 9:27 - What was your childhood like? 10:11 - Hitting his breaking point? 11:54 - Who is the worst judge of Brother Luck? 12:49 - Is a professional kitchen supportive of mental health? 15:39 - Do you still find time to enjoy cooking? 16:22 - If you're one thing. Be vulnerable. 18:23 - Do you come across 16-year-olds who remind you of yourself? 21:11 - How did Anthony Bourdain's death by suicide affect you? 23:30 - After your attempt, what was your next step? 25:20 - What worked well for you that you would recommend to others? 30:00 - Tell me about your advocacy work for mental health. 30:37 - What's the best way to learn more about you and everything you are up to? 31:13 - What is one thing you wish more men knew? Links Brother Luck -- https://chefbrotherluck.com/ No Lucks Given: Life's hard but there is hope - https://amzn.to/3LVXQxY Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

Real Men Feel reminds you that men are human beings and are entitled to feel and express the full range of emotions. I'm going to emphasize that more today, thanks to an email I received last week. "About 3-4 years ago, I came out as a trans man. I deal with a lot of imposter syndrome when it comes to my identity. Whenever I hear the name of your podcast, it makes me cringe a little because I don't see myself as a "real" man. It makes me feel like this is advice that isn't for me. ...does the advice you give count for trans men as well as cis men?" Nobody has asked me this question, but I have wondered. If you don't know, cis is short for cisgender, which means a person whose gender identity corresponds to their sex assigned at birth. For the first couple of years, I co-hosted Real Men Feel with Appio Hunter, a gay male friend. I thought that would cover more ground, but there was rarely different advice, issues, or topics for gay vs. straight men. I don't recall any episode specifically about trans men, but I have often said that if you consider yourself a man, anything you do is, by definition, manly. If you see yourself as a man, Real Men do whatever you do. I know guys with ED, others who have been paralyzed below the waist, and others who battled testicular cancer and had one of their balls removed. I don't consider any of them to be less than, or non-men, or people who can no longer listen to this podcast. I talk to so many men dealing with imposter syndrome that I'd say having it is more proof of your manliness, not less. It took me years to be comfortable with the title, even though I named the show. There are so many sayings, memes, etc. about Real Men this, Real Men that... ALL of them pissed me off. So the title is a play on that. But also, the "real" of Real Men Feel means genuine, authentic, and true to yourself. All of that is up to you. No committee, organization, or individual decides whether you are a man or not, except for you. So, is the advice I give only for cis men? From my perspective, no. I would suggest more critical than "is the advice meant for this group or that group," ask, "Do I resonate with this?" If you are a trans man and want to share a bit of your experience on Real Men Feel, I'd be honored to have you. Reach out to me at realmenfeel@gmail.com. Wherever you are discovering the Real Men Feel - I invite you to subscribe, follow, like, share, post a comment, and all that fun stuff. If you want to explore what life might be like for you with more authenticity and vulnerability, book a free Clarify Call with me - visit theandygrant.com/talk Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | youtube.com/realmenfeel

Real Men Feel exists to remind you that men are human beings entitled to feel and express the full range of emotions. I look forward to the day when a man can cry in public, and people notice and say to themselves, "Now, that's a man." Not sarcastically, not ironically, but because they recognize that publicly expressing emotions could be the bravest, most courageous thing a man can do. Recently I got an email and the title was The Laws for Manhood. I rolled my eyes and marked it to follow. Anytime someone makes a list of any rules, laws, or vows that all men must follow in order to be men... I want to puke. I had the time to go back and read that article earlier today. There are rules and laws that society teaches us that are meant to create a better community. Some rules are passed down from parents and schools intended to make us behave and be quiet. There are unconscious rules often tied to our gender and social roles; Those sorts of things we pick up as kids that our parents model in their actions or words.  Any unconscious rule can get you into trouble. Since it is unconscious, you don't realize you are abiding by it and don't realize where it came from to begin with.  The oldest rules I could think of our the 10 Commandments. I don't know anybody who's never broken some of those. Back to the original email, I got. It linked to an article called What Are Your 10 Laws of Manhood? That's a little better than the email - at least it's "your laws" not saying this is a must for all mankind. That all reminded me of some rules I do agree with. Friend and frequent guest of this show, Jed Diamond, wrote a book called 12 Rules of Good Men. Rule #1: Join a Men's Group. Rule #2: Break Free From the Man Box. Rule #3: Accept the Gift of Maleness. Rule #4: Embrace Your Billion Year Male History. Rule #5: Recognize Your Anger and Fear of Women. Rule #6: Learn the Secrets of Real, Lasting, Love. Rule #7: Undergo Meaningful Rites of Passage. Rule #8: Celebrate Your True Warrior Spirit and Learn Why Male Duel and Females Duet. Rule #9: Understand and Heal Your Adverse Childhood Experiences. Rule #10: Heal Your Father Wound and Become the Father You Were Meant to Be. Rule #11: Treat the Irritable Male Syndrome and Male-Type Depression. Rule #12: Find Your Mission in Life and Do Your Part to Save Humanity. I believe the best rules to live by are ones you've proven from your own experience. They can undoubtedly originate from someone else, but if any rule, law, guideline, or vow about being a man doesn't bring more joy to your life - I strongly suggest questioning it. If you have a rule to live by that you think works great, share it. Wherever you are listening to this, post a comment or email me at realmenfeel@gmail.com. Links See what other guys think https://www.quora.com/What-are-your-10-laws-of-manhood Jed Diamond's The 12 Rules for Good Men https://amzn.to/3BgofS4 Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | youtube.com/realmenfeel

Real Men Feel is about reminding men that they are human and entitled to feel and express the full range of emotions. Some of those emotions can you have feeling like absolute shit, but that never means that you are shit. If you've read any of my books, seen me speak live, listened to many Real Men Feel episodes, perhaps heard me as a guest on other shows, or even know me as an actual, physical, human being, you are aware that I don't hide the fact that I've tried to end my life multiple times. September 10 is World Suicide Prevention Day, and I don't make a big thing about this day because, frankly, it pisses me off. Every day should be suicide prevention day for all of us. But I get that plenty of people still experience a stigma around any discussions of mental health or suicide. And I have long believed that one of the best ways to prevent suicide is to talk about it. So I shall. Men account for three-quarters of deaths by suicide in many countries. While the pathway to suicide for each individual is unique, some common risk factors have been shown to contribute to the higher suicide rate among men. These risk factors include using more lethal means, reduced help-seeking, harmful substance use, social disconnection, conformity to some masculine norms, and stressful life events such as unemployment and relationship breakdown. The theme for World Suicide Prevention Day this year is "Creating hope through action." My talking to you right now is an action. You listening right now is an action. You checking with a dear friend and asking how they are? is an action. Working with a therapist, a coach, or a men's group is a positive action you might take. By the way, those are all things I've been doing this summer. I invite you to show support for those struggling with suicidal attempts or ideation and to remember loved ones who died of suicide. Links Check out the ManKind Project - https://mankindproject.org/ Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel