Let Go & Lead with Maril MacDonald

Leadership expert, Harvard Business School Senior Lecturer and bestselling author of Friendly Fire Scott A. Snook discusses what he's learned over his time in the military and academia about what it takes to lead. Snook, a decorated veteran and victim of friendly fire himself, studies these incidents of tragedy as a way to make sense of — and ultimately prevent — organizational dysfunction. Among other things, they discuss why every leadership program should cover "followership" and the art of managing up; how leaders fundamentally cannot control outcomes, and can only shift the odds; the importance of finding the right balance between high challenge and high support; and why ultimately, what leaders need most is self-awareness and self-acceptance — or, in other words, to be both socially intelligent and secure.       Learn about:   11:42 How Scott describes leadership 14:13 The deep connection between leadership and "followership" 19:00 The organizational lessons from a "friendly fire" incident 23:45 Why your core values are so critical for leaders 28:58 The worst attribute in a leader 29:52 The intersection of high performance, high support and high challenge 38:22 Scott's summary lessons for leaders       —  Scott A. Snook graduated with honors from West Point, earning the Royal Society of Arts Award for the most outstanding overall cadet in his class. Following graduation, he was commissioned in the US Army Corps of Engineers, where he served in various command and staff positions for over 22 years, earning the rank of Colonel before retiring in 2002. He has led soldiers in combat. Among his military decorations are the Legion of Merit, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Master Parachutist badge. He has an MBA from the Harvard Business School, where he graduated with High Distinction as a Baker Scholar. Dr. Snook earned his Ph.D. from Harvard University in Organizational Behavior, winning the Sage-Louis Pondy Best Dissertation Award from the Academy of Management for his study of the Friendly Fire Shootdown in Northern Iraq. Until July of 2002, Colonel Snook served as an Academy Professor in the Behavioral Sciences and Leadership Department at the United States Military Academy. He also directed West Point's Center for Leadership and Organizations Research as well as its joint Master's Program in Leader Development. Scott's passion is to help others live more "meaning-full" lives. More specifically, he is interested in unpacking and understanding transformational leader (human) development experiences --how to make the most out of life's curriculum, as well as how to create high-leverage/high-impact interventions to accelerate the growth of leaders. Professor Snook's book Friendly Fire was selected by the Academy of Management to receive the 2002 Terry Award as the most influential book on managerial thinking published during the past two years. He has also co-authored a book that explores the role of "common sense" in leadership titled, Practical Intelligence in Everyday Life (2000) and co-edited The Handbook for Teaching Leadership: Knowing, Doing, and Being (2011). Most recently, he co-authored The Discover Your True North Fieldbook (2015), which is the primary text for "Authentic Leader Development," the popular MBA elective he has taught for over 10 years. Professor Snook has shared his leadership insights in formal executive education programs at Harvard and with numerous corporate audiences around the world.   ABOUT LET GO & LEAD   Let Go & Lead is a leadership community created by Maril MacDonald, founder and CEO of Gagen MacDonald. Maril brings together provocateurs, pioneers, thought leaders and those leading the conversation around culture, transformation and change.  Over the course of the past 12 years, Let Go & Lead has existed in many forms, from video interviews to resource guides to its current iteration as a podcast. At its core, it remains a place where people can access a diversity of perspectives on interdisciplinary approaches to leadership. Maril is also working on a book incorporating these insights gathered over the past several years from global leaders and change makers.     Maril has interviewed over 120 leaders — from business to academia and nonprofits to the arts — through the years. In each conversation, from personal anecdotes to ground-breaking scientific analysis, she has probed the lessons learned in leadership. From these conversations, the Let Go & Lead framework has emerged. It is both a personal and organizational resource that aims to serve the individual leader or leadership at scale.    ABOUT GAGEN MACDONALD   At Gagen MacDonald, we are dedicated to helping organizations navigate the human struggle of change. We are a people-focused consulting firm and our passion is improving the employee experience — for everyone. For almost 25 years, we have been working with companies to create clarity from chaos by uniting employees across all levels around a single vision so they can achieve results and realize their future. We have been a pioneer in bringing humanity to strategy execution, leading in areas such as organizational communication, culture, leadership, and employee engagement. Our Vision is to lift all humanity by transforming the companies that transform the world.      Full episodes also available on:       Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-go-lead-with-maril-macdonald/id1454869525       Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Gaf7JXOckZMtkpsMtnjAj?si=WZjZkvfLTX2T4eaeB1PO2A       Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9sZXRnb2xlYWQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M      —      Gagen MacDonald is a strategy execution consulting firm that specializes in employee engagement, culture change and leadership development. Learn more at http://www.gagenmacdonald.com. 

In this episode of Let Go & Lead, Maril talks with bestselling author, world-class coach and CEO and Co-Founder of Disruption Advisors Whitney Johnson. After a successful career on Wall Street, Whitney had an epiphany: she wanted to apply the immense knowledge she'd gained from modeling and analyzing stock performance to see if the same rules could be applied to people. Over a wide-ranging conversation around disruption, Whitney speaks to the power of personal disruption; explains her S-curve model, which she uses to better understand how individuals change and grow; and walks through the seven accelerants of productive disruption. At Gagen MacDonald, we believe that transformation starts within, and Whitney's work deeply reinforces the idea: to change an organization, you need to start by changing yourself.   Learn about:   7:07 Defining the S-curve of learning 10:30 The seven accelerants of personal disruption 14:37 How to disrupt yourself 21:07 How to deal with change detractors 26:22 Tackling current workforce disruptions 33:32 How the energy of disruption accelerates change   —  Whitney Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Disruption Advisors, is a world-class coach, globally recognized thought leader, author, keynote speaker and consultant helping organizations operationalize a high-growth mindset in their leaders and teams.  Whitney is the WSJ, USA Today, and Amazon bestselling author of Smart Growth: How to Grow Your People to Grow Your Company (Harvard Business Press, 2022). She shares her passion for personal disruption, helping individuals transform their lives, careers, teams and companies through her keynote addresses; her popular podcast Disrupt Yourself; lectures at Harvard Business School's Corporate Learning; the award-winning books How to Build an A Team, Disrupt Yourself and Dare, Dream, Do; and frequent article contributions to the Harvard Business Review and MIT Sloan Management Review. Whitney is ranked a top talent coach by Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coaches, recognized by Thinkers50 as one of the top 10 leading business thinkers in the world and named Inc.'s 200 Female Founders of 2023. She is co-founder of the Disruptive Innovation Fund with Clayton Christensen, and a former award-winning stock analyst on Wall Street. She now applies her understanding of momentum and growth in stocks to people.  ABOUT LET GO & LEAD   Let Go & Lead is a leadership community created by Maril MacDonald, founder and CEO of Gagen MacDonald. Maril brings together provocateurs, pioneers, thought leaders and those leading the conversation around culture, transformation and change.  Over the course of the past 12 years, Let Go & Lead has existed in many forms, from video interviews to resource guides to its current iteration as a podcast. At its core, it remains a place where people can access a diversity of perspectives on interdisciplinary approaches to leadership. Maril is also working on a book incorporating these insights gathered over the past several years from global leaders and change makers.     Maril has interviewed over 120 leaders — from business to academia and nonprofits to the arts — through the years. In each conversation, from personal anecdotes to ground-breaking scientific analysis, she has probed the lessons learned in leadership. From these conversations, the Let Go & Lead framework has emerged. It is both a personal and organizational resource that aims to serve the individual leader or leadership at scale.    ABOUT GAGEN MACDONALD At Gagen MacDonald, we are dedicated to helping organizations navigate the human struggle of change. We are a people-focused consulting firm and our passion is improving the employee experience — for everyone. For almost 25 years, we have been working with companies to create clarity from chaos by uniting employees across all levels around a single vision so they can achieve results and realize their future. We have been a pioneer in bringing humanity to strategy execution, leading in areas such as organizational communication, culture, leadership, and employee engagement. Our Vision is to lift all humanity by transforming the companies that transform the world.    Full episodes also available on:       Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-go-lead-with-maril-macdonald/id1454869525       Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Gaf7JXOckZMtkpsMtnjAj?si=WZjZkvfLTX2T4eaeB1PO2A       Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9sZXRnb2xlYWQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M      —      Gagen MacDonald is a strategy execution consulting firm that specializes in employee engagement, culture change and leadership development. Learn more at http://www.gagenmacdonald.com. 

In this episode of Let Go & Lead, Maril talks with bestselling author and lauded employee engagement expert Mark Crowley. Over 25 years, Crowley drove unprecedented success as a leader in the financial services industry by focusing on a simple but powerful idea: when human beings thrive, organizations thrive as well. He and Maril discuss the unprecedented opportunity leaders have right now to reinvent how we lead and manage people by focusing more on how we make people feel. When leaders trust in human connection and give people more emotional support, they allow themselves to set higher expectations, as well — driving well-being, engagement, retention and broader organizational success. With confidence gained from personal experience, Mark is passionate that any organization can see these business gains by leading in this manner.   Learn about:   3:30 The four keys to leading from the heart 23:33 Learning from cows about leading with love 27:55 The science of leading from the heart 31:04 Leading from the heart in a hybrid working world 36:36 The power of gratitude 43:08 Five qualities of good leaders —  Mark C. Crowley is an award-winning pioneer in human-centered leadership. He is the bestselling author of Lead From The Heart: Transformational Leadership for the 21st Century and the host of the podcast Lead From The Heart. Over 25 years as a leader in the financial services industry, Mark drove record-breaking sales and profitability performance by focusing on emotional connection and people-first leadership. His experiences — as well as a growing body of scientific research — convinced him that the most successful way of motivating human beings in the workplace is to positively affect their hearts. Today, he speaks to global audiences and consults with companies around the idea that humans are not as rational as we think we are, and that changing how managers make employees feel is the best way to inspire organizational excellence.   ABOUT LET GO & LEAD   Let Go & Lead is a leadership community created by Maril MacDonald, founder and CEO of Gagen MacDonald. Maril brings together provocateurs, pioneers, thought leaders and those leading the conversation around culture, transformation and change.  Over the course of the past 12 years, Let Go & Lead has existed in many forms, from video interviews to resource guides to its current iteration as a podcast. At its core, it remains a place where people can access a diversity of perspectives on interdisciplinary approaches to leadership. Maril is also working on a book incorporating these insights gathered over the past several years from global leaders and change makers.     Maril has interviewed over 120 leaders — from business to academia and nonprofits to the arts — through the years. In each conversation, from personal anecdotes to ground-breaking scientific analysis, she has probed the lessons learned in leadership. From these conversations, the Let Go & Lead framework has emerged. It is both a personal and organizational resource that aims to serve the individual leader or leadership at scale.    ABOUT GAGEN MACDONALD At Gagen MacDonald, we are dedicated to helping organizations navigate the human struggle of change. We are a people-focused consulting firm and our passion is improving the employee experience — for everyone. For almost 25 years, we have been working with companies to create clarity from chaos by uniting employees across all levels around a single vision so they can achieve results and realize their future. We have been a pioneer in bringing humanity to strategy execution, leading in areas such as organizational communication, culture, leadership, and employee engagement. Our Vision is to lift all humanity by transforming the companies that transform the world. Full episodes also available on:       Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-go-lead-with-maril-macdonald/id1454869525       Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Gaf7JXOckZMtkpsMtnjAj?si=WZjZkvfLTX2T4eaeB1PO2A       Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9sZXRnb2xlYWQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M      —      Gagen MacDonald is a strategy execution consulting firm that specializes in employee engagement, culture change and leadership development. Learn more at http://www.gagenmacdonald.com. 

Amy Edmondson, Harvard Business School professor and author of The Fearless Organization, explains psychological safety in teams with a short, practical lens. She discusses how leaders create permission for candor, common mistakes that silence voice, balancing openness with high standards, and why a beginner's mind and letting go of ego matter for learning and better teaming.

In this episode of Let Go & Lead, Maril talks with Sylvia Burwell, the 15th president of American University. She shares the leadership principles that have guided her through an impressive and wide-ranging leadership career — from serving as U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services during the Obama administration to Chief Operating Officer at Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to her current role as the first woman to lead American University. Sylvia and Maril discuss the importance, for a leader, of creating a leadership team that doesn't look like you, with true diversity of perspective; of being a calm, optimistic presence during crisis; and of taking it on yourself to "see around the corner" as a leader — to ensure your energy goes more toward anticipating the future than preserving the past.   Learn about: 10:55 Three critical leadership principles 12:01 The key elements of great teams 14:52 How inclusion creates excellence 22:10 The role of community to build alignment 27:44 The role of emotions in decision-making 33:50 What leaders need to let go of —  Sylvia M. Burwell is American University's 15th president and the first woman to serve as president. A visionary leader with experience in the public and private sectors, President Burwell brings to American University a commitment to education and research, the ability to manage large and complex organizations, and experience helping to advance solutions to some of the world's most pressing challenges. Burwell joined AU on June 1, 2017. Burwell has held two cabinet positions in the United States government. She served as the 22nd secretary of the US Department of Health and Human Services from 2014 to 2017. During her tenure, she managed a trillion-dollar department that includes the National Institutes of Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Food and Drug Administration, and the Medicaid and Medicare programs; oversaw the successful implementation of the Affordable Care Act; and led the department's responses to the Ebola and Zika outbreaks. Before that, she served as the director of the Office of Management and Budget, working with Congress to negotiate a two-year budget deal following the 2013 government shutdown. In both roles she was known as a leader who worked successfully across the aisle and focused on delivering results for the American people. Her additional government experience is extensive and includes roles as deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget, deputy chief of staff to the president, chief of staff to the secretary of the Treasury, and special assistant to the director of the National Economic Council. Burwell has held leadership positions at two of the largest foundations in the world. She served 11 years at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, including roles as the chief operating officer and president of the Global Development Program. She then served as president of the Walmart Foundation and ran its global Women's Economic Empowerment efforts. Her private sector experience includes service on the Board of Directors of MetLife. She earned a bachelor's degree in Government from Harvard University and a BA in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from the University of Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar. A second-generation Greek American, Burwell is a native of Hinton, West Virginia. She and her husband Stephen Burwell are the parents of two young children. ABOUT LET GO & LEAD Let Go & Lead is a leadership community created by Maril MacDonald, founder and CEO of Gagen MacDonald. Maril brings together provocateurs, pioneers, thought leaders and those leading the conversation around culture, transformation and change.  Over the course of the past 12 years, Let Go & Lead has existed in many forms, from video interviews to resource guides to its current iteration as a podcast. At its core, it remains a place where people can access a diversity of perspectives on interdisciplinary approaches to leadership. Maril is also working on a book incorporating these insights gathered over the past several years from global leaders and change makers.   Maril has interviewed over 120 leaders — from business to academia and nonprofits to the arts — through the years. In each conversation, from personal anecdotes to ground-breaking scientific analysis, she has probed the lessons learned in leadership. From these conversations, the Let Go & Lead framework has emerged. It is both a personal and organizational resource that aims to serve the individual leader or leadership at scale.  ABOUT GAGEN MACDONALD At Gagen MacDonald, we are dedicated to helping organizations navigate the human struggle of change. We are a people-focused consulting firm and our passion is improving the employee experience — for everyone. For almost 25 years, we have been working with companies to create clarity from chaos by uniting employees across all levels around a single vision so they can achieve results and realize their future. We have been a pioneer in bringing humanity to strategy execution, leading in areas such as organizational communication, culture, leadership, and employee engagement. Our Vision is to lift all humanity by transforming the companies that transform the world. Full episodes also available on:   Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-go-lead-with-maril-macdonald/id1454869525   Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Gaf7JXOckZMtkpsMtnjAj?si=WZjZkvfLTX2T4eaeB1PO2A   Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9sZXRnb2xlYWQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M   Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/let-go-lead   —   Gagen MacDonald is a strategy execution consulting firm that specializes in employee engagement, culture change and leadership development. Learn more at http://www.gagenmacdonald.com. 

In this episode of Let Go & Lead, Maril talks with Wendy Short Bartie, Senior Vice President & Chief of Staff to the CEO at Bristol Myers Squibb. The gift for leadership that has made Wendy such a fast riser in the pharmaceutical industry, since leaving her original legal career, shines throughout this vibrant conversation. They discuss Wendy's journey as a leader, and how her focus has shifted, over time, from practicing leadership to preparing others to be great leaders; why empathy has a lot to do with understanding gaps between intention and impact; and the crucial role of the leader as "air traffic controller" — the person who actively creates space for a diversity of perspectives and opinions — during meetings. Learn about: 4:58 Building a leadership legacy in an organization 8:32 Leading using the skill of influence 9:16 The power of listening 11:09 The power to S.P.E.A.K. like a leader 16:09 Mentoring and growing great leaders 19:34: The power of an "I Love Me" letter 23:36 The critical leadership art of meeting management 26:04 Being attentive on mental health 36:32 Teambuilding in a hybrid/remote environment —  Wendy Short Bartie is the Senior Vice President and Head of US Oncology.  In this capacity, Wendy is responsible for leading the strategy and operations for solid tumor program in the US market.  A compassionate and strategic leader, her career journey has taken many turns, but her path has always been clear – the commitment to help people - first as a lawyer/public defender, and then as a pharmaceutical industry professional, continuing to act as a voice for those with unmet needs and unequal access. Prior to joining BMS, Wendy was Vice President and Head of Commercial Operations for US Oncology at Merck.  In this capacity, Wendy was responsible for leading the Sales, Key Accounts, Market Access, Pricing and Policy organizations within the US Business Unit.  Previously, Wendy served as Associate Vice-President of Global Marketing for Genitourinary Cancers (GU), including renal cell carcinoma, prostate cancer and bladder cancer and as the Global Disease Lead for Women's Cancer.  Prior to joining Merck, Wendy held a range of commercial roles with increasing responsibility in sales, business analytics and marketing in cardiovascular neuroscience, osteoporosis, lung cancer, supportive care and chronic myeloid leukemia at various companies including Novartis, Heron Therapeutics, Johnson and Johnson, Pharmacia and Abbott Labs.   Prior to her career in pharma, Wendy was a Public Defender in Washington, DC and Bronx, New York. Wendy received her Bachelor of Arts from Clark Atlanta University and her Juris Doctor from Loyola University Chicago, School of Law.   Wendy is an HBA Rising Star and was recognized by HBA as a Luminary in 2020. Wendy's favorite hobbies include painting and reading.  When Wendy isn't working, painting and reading, she is serving as Vice President for the Greater Essex County Chapter of Jack and Jill Incorporated and doing philanthropic work to limit the digital divide for children without access to personal computers or internet. Wendy, her husband, Jared, an attorney, and her daughter, Madison, and the family dog, Joy reside in West Orange, New Jersey. ABOUT LET GO & LEAD Let Go & Lead is a leadership community created by Maril MacDonald, founder and CEO of Gagen MacDonald. Maril brings together provocateurs, pioneers, thought leaders and those leading the conversation around culture, transformation and change.  Over the course of the past 12 years, Let Go & Lead has existed in many forms, from video interviews to resource guides to its current iteration as a podcast. At its core, it remains a place where people can access a diversity of perspectives on interdisciplinary approaches to leadership. Maril is also working on a book incorporating these insights gathered over the past several years from global leaders and change makers.   Maril has interviewed over 120 leaders — from business to academia and nonprofits to the arts — through the years. In each conversation, from personal anecdotes to ground-breaking scientific analysis, she has probed the lessons learned in leadership. From these conversations, the Let Go & Lead framework has emerged. It is both a personal and organizational resource that aims to serve the individual leader or leadership at scale.  ABOUT GAGEN MACDONALD At Gagen MacDonald, we are dedicated to helping organizations navigate the human struggle of change. We are a people-focused consulting firm and our passion is improving the employee experience — for everyone. For almost 25 years, we have been working with companies to create clarity from chaos by uniting employees across all levels around a single vision so they can achieve results and realize their future. We have been a pioneer in bringing humanity to strategy execution, leading in areas such as organizational communication, culture, leadership, and employee engagement. Our Vision is to lift all humanity by transforming the companies that transform the world. Full episodes also available on:   Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-go-lead-with-maril-macdonald/id1454869525   Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Gaf7JXOckZMtkpsMtnjAj?si=WZjZkvfLTX2T4eaeB1PO2A   Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9sZXRnb2xlYWQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M   Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/let-go-lead   —   Gagen MacDonald is a strategy execution consulting firm that specializes in employee engagement, culture change and leadership development. Learn more at http://www.gagenmacdonald.com.

Marshall Goldsmith, renowned leadership coach and bestselling author, shares quick, practical ideas on leading knowledge workers, five must-have leader capabilities, and how to disagree productively. He talks about decision ownership, staying present while achieving goals, engaging teams remotely, and asking what your 95-year-old self would value most.

Marshall Goldsmith, renowned executive coach and bestselling author of The Earned Life, shares leadership lessons in short, practical bursts. He explores the superstition trap of past success. He discusses courage, humility, discipline, daily six-question practice, accountability partners and aligning aspirations with daily actions. The conversation also touches on Buddhist framing and what truly makes leaders effective.

In this episode of Let Go & Lead, Jeremy Dean, Founder and Master Gamemaker at riders&elephants, talks with Maril about the elephant in the room of corporate culture: emotion. Emotion is core to belief, which is core to motivating people. Yet often, when undertaking a culture change or business transformation, leaders will start by thinking about the values and behaviors they desire; not how they want people to feel.  Why is this? Because emotions are hard to talk about. Jeremy's organization has found success making it easier through an unusual method: "gamifying" the conversation through a card game for organizations.  Learn about: 3:58 What is emotional culture? 6:01 How emotions govern beliefs and behaviors 7:34 The importance of discussing unpleasant emotions 11:45 How to "gamify" the emotion discussion 21:56 Understanding emotional sub-cultures in an organization —  Jeremy is the Founder and Master Gamemaker at riders&elephants. R&E design games to help people express themselves through simple, powerful words. Jeremy is on a mission to humanize the workplace. R&E games are used by people in some of the biggest and most inspiring organizations on the planet. ABOUT LET GO & LEAD Let Go & Lead is a leadership community created by Maril MacDonald, founder and CEO of Gagen MacDonald. Maril brings together provocateurs, pioneers, thought leaders and those leading the conversation around culture, transformation and change.  Over the course of the past 12 years, Let Go & Lead has existed in many forms, from video interviews to resource guides to its current iteration as a podcast. At its core, it remains a place where people can access a diversity of perspectives on interdisciplinary approaches to leadership. Maril is also working on a book incorporating these insights gathered over the past several years from global leaders and change makers.   Maril has interviewed over 120 leaders — from business to academia and nonprofits to the arts — through the years. In each conversation, from personal anecdotes to ground-breaking scientific analysis, she has probed the lessons learned in leadership. From these conversations, the Let Go & Lead framework has emerged. It is both a personal and organizational resource that aims to serve the individual leader or leadership at scale.  ABOUT GAGEN MACDONALD At Gagen MacDonald, we are dedicated to helping organizations navigate the human struggle of change. We are a people-focused consulting firm and our passion is improving the employee experience — for everyone. For almost 25 years, we have been working with companies to create clarity from chaos by uniting employees across all levels around a single vision so they can achieve results and realize their future. We have been a pioneer in bringing humanity to strategy execution, leading in areas such as organizational communication, culture, leadership, and employee engagement. Our Vision is to lift all humanity by transforming the companies that transform the world. Full episodes also available on:   Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-go-lead-with-maril-macdonald/id1454869525   Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Gaf7JXOckZMtkpsMtnjAj?si=WZjZkvfLTX2T4eaeB1PO2A   Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9sZXRnb2xlYWQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M   Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/let-go-lead   —   Gagen MacDonald is a strategy execution consulting firm that specializes in employee engagement, culture change and leadership development. Learn more at http://www.gagenmacdonald.com. 

In this episode of Let Go & Lead, accomplished change leader and founder and CEO of We Need Social Celine Schillinger talks with Maril about the relational leadership skills required in today's business world — and how much those differ from what we've been taught to value in leaders. Schillinger, the author of Dare to Un-lead, sees eye-to-eye with Maril's people-first lens on change leadership. The two discuss the vulnerability and self-effacement required to create movements inside companies, the immense power of co-creating solutions with employees and how often, the best way to improve business outcomes is simply to prioritize building a community of people who care for each other.     Learn about: 10:54 Why the typical change approach has no heart 14:18 How companies can co-create change 18:47 How "Un-leading" differs from traditional leadership 25:25 Why leaders need to evolve to "Un-lead" 36:28 Creating movements in a hybrid world 55:55 Takeaways from the episode —  A pioneering voice in Engagement Leadership, Celine has been recognized multiple times for her large-scale innovative engagement initiatives in the corporate world. Prior to her 17 years' experience in the pharma industry across Business Operations, Marketing and Industrial Quality, Celine worked with communications, defense and trading companies. Hanoi, Vietnam, Beijing, China and Boston, USA were once called home. From Boston, Celine led a transformation movement at pharma giant Sanofi, impacting a change population of 10,000 people across Industrial Operations and Quality functions worldwide. Celine now works from France as an Engagement Leadership consultant, helping clients with new leadership strategies that mobilize internal or external stakeholders, enable corporate transformation and boost business value.  Celine's journey led her to founding We Need Social. A TEDx speaker, Celine was made a Knight of the National Order of Merit by the French government for her workplace change efforts. Lessons from her journey in change are captured in Celine's first book, published in June 2022: Dare to Un-Lead: The Art of Relational Leadership in a Fragmented World. Celine and her husband Leo are parents to Gustave (17) and Violette (12). In her free time, Celine loves to row on the beautiful Saône River, nearby her home. Her articles and ideas can be found in various well-respected media and podcasts. Celine's keynotes and speeches span multiple change, organizational transformation and leadership topics.  She is featured extensively in major media articles. Multiple outstanding book reviews to include this one: "This book SHOULD BE taught in business schools, b/c what she says is a complete flip of the typical #leadership theories we usually get in today's world of work" ABOUT LET GO & LEAD Let Go & Lead is a leadership community created by Maril MacDonald, founder and CEO of Gagen MacDonald. Maril brings together provocateurs, pioneers, thought leaders and those leading the conversation around culture, transformation and change.  Over the course of the past 12 years, Let Go & Lead has existed in many forms, from video interviews to resource guides to its current iteration as a podcast. At its core, it remains a place where people can access a diversity of perspectives on interdisciplinary approaches to leadership. Maril is also working on a book incorporating these insights gathered over the past several years from global leaders and change makers.   Maril has interviewed over 120 leaders — from business to academia and nonprofits to the arts — through the years. In each conversation, from personal anecdotes to ground-breaking scientific analysis, she has probed the lessons learned in leadership. From these conversations, the Let Go & Lead framework has emerged. It is both a personal and organizational resource that aims to serve the individual leader or leadership at scale.  ABOUT GAGEN MACDONALD At Gagen MacDonald, we are dedicated to helping organizations navigate the human struggle of change. We are a people-focused consulting firm and our passion is improving the employee experience — for everyone. For almost 25 years, we have been working with companies to create clarity from chaos by uniting employees across all levels around a single vision so they can achieve results and realize their future. We have been a pioneer in bringing humanity to strategy execution, leading in areas such as organizational communication, culture, leadership, and employee engagement. Our Vision is to lift all humanity by transforming the companies that transform the world. Full episodes also available on:   Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-go-lead-with-maril-macdonald/id1454869525   Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Gaf7JXOckZMtkpsMtnjAj?si=WZjZkvfLTX2T4eaeB1PO2A   Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9sZXRnb2xlYWQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M      Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/let-go-lead   —   Gagen MacDonald is a strategy execution consulting firm that specializes in employee engagement, culture change and leadership development. Learn more at http://www.gagenmacdonald.com.