The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Irrational EthicsCurt and Katie chat about how current ethical standards fail to recognize culture and humanity. We talk about how the ethics codes were initially created, looking at the racist, sexist, classist roots. We also discuss the problems in how ethics are usually taught and the lack of focus on ethical thinking and decision-making, rather than rigidly following rules based in oppression.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The gaps in the ethics codes, looking at the historical roots of the current codes How ethics codes were initially created – racist, sexist, classist roots The systemic implications related to continuing to refine the codes, rather than re-norming or recreating starting with the current people in the profession Thoughts around fixing the codes to be more representative and inclusive The challenges that ethics committees face in considering a new ethics code The aspirational aspects of the “shared values” The problems with how we teach ethics in grad school “We were taught ethics as laws.” The need to think ethically, not blindly follow rules out of context The problem with rigidly holding to imperfect ethical codes Authoritarian practices of holding each other to ethics codes “We’re perpetuating oppression and disguising it as morality” – Curt Widhalm Principle ethics – bare-minimum guidelines to protect against the lowest common denominator Aspirational ethics – and why we should move in this direction The willing ignorance of other cultures within the ethical codes Our requirement to hold to white Eurocentric ideals What we can do to improve the codes Looking at ourselves as individuals and having guidance on how we can be better The failure of the codes to consider how therapists show up in the room The importance of having best practices for optimizing performance for therapists The problem with not clearly distinguishing between principle versus aspirational codes Posing the question on what an ethics code would look like when it isn’t tied to a professional association

Therapy with an AccentAn interview with Namrata Rindani, LMFT on her experiences as an immigrant from India getting re-trained as a therapist in the United States. Curt and Katie talk with Nam about the systemic problems in the American graduate education system, her insight into how education can improve, and how she navigates having an accent with other professionals and potential clients.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Namrata Rindani, LMFTNam Rindani is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in working with men and therapists in California through her teletherapy practice as well as owner and Relationship Coach at Ebonessence Coaching and Consulting for Men. Her 17-year clinical experience spans two continents and multiple languages as she practiced therapy in India serving the marginalized before moving to the United States. Nam served as Prelicensed Chair of San Diego CAMFT in 2015 and is also founder and comoderator of large online community, Therapists In Private Practice, where she found her passion for engaging and moderating difficult yet necessary conversations about topics of systemic injustice, marginalization and oppression within and outside the therapy field. Nam believes that by opening up conversations where the marginalized are heard and the unassuming oppressive groups are informed, we can begin to build bridges and close gaps that have plagued communities for generations. In this episode we talk about: Nam’s journey to becoming a therapist in the US after practicing in India The training differences between India and the US The gatekeeping and barriers to practicing when moving to the US The differences she found between herself and her colleagues in her program Balancing how much to speak up with how to avoid dimming her own light The view of expert status and humanity within the therapy relationship The fear in the American system related to the person of the therapist and the relationship Nam’s experience as a graduate student in the American system and the pressure to be the “good immigrant” How to navigate the system as an international student The problems of an oppressive system keeping students from achieving their goals as therapists “We need you to edit who you are and then we will accept what it is that you have to say.” – Nam Rindani The challenges of not having support to walk through requirements of the US system “When it comes to places and space where our immigrant identity is going to be a problem – the way you respond to that is where the change needs to occur.” How to address an accent or a foreign background – taking a leadership role in the difference you come into the room with “For those of us who have accents and we come from other countries, YOU are the ones who have an accent.” Why it is safer to call out difference in the beginning of a conversation “When does my supervision begin and I stop being a museum specimen?” Immigrant trauma within the profession Looking at the framework of each person’s view of relationships within the training (both in how it is trained and who is performing treatment) How people define normal is very culturally bound and the need to check in with each person’s perspective A grassroots approach to systemic change How she has shaped her practice to align with her identity and to support the work while also avoiding working with people who are unsafe for her as a therapist

Rage and Client Self-HarmAn interview with Angela Caldwell, LMFT on cutting and non-suicidal self-injury. Curt and Katie talk with Angela about the causes of self-harm, the mistakes therapists make in addressing self-harm as well as how to identify reasons behind this harmful coping mechanism and how to identify when suicidality is a risk. We also look at how rage within nice families can lead to self-injury.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Angela Caldwell, LMFTAngela Caldwell is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Family Coach. She is the Founder and Director of the Self-Injury Institute, where her practice focuses on the treatment of self-injury from a family systems perspective, as well as the Caldwell Family Institute, where she offers out-of-the-box coaching for families that are looking for something other than therapy to help them reach their growth potential.Angela is currently on the adjunct faculty for the MFT graduate program at California State University Northridge, where she teaches family systems theories and couples therapy. She has been teaching graduate students for over a decade at four different universities, and previously taught assessment for a large majority of her teaching career. She was selected by Antioch University to design a curriculum for a new Counselor Assessment class, and has offered consultation on assessments for the last eight years.Angela has served in MFT leadership for much of her career, including holding executive offices in CAMFT and AAMFT. She has worked side by side with Ben Caldwell and other leaders on various advocacy efforts in California, most notably on the passage of SB 1172, which banned reparative therapy for minors in 2012.In this episode we talk about: Angela’s perspective on family systems and champions of families and dinner tables The mistakes in treatment planning and way of being related to self-injury What not to do when clients disclose self-harm The intrusive nature of liability-focused treatment planning and interventions in the room The need to render cutting irrelevant The role of the family treatment for addressing self-injury Non-suicidal self-injury versus suicidal self-injury (the difference is intent) “It’s important for therapists to be able to talk about suicide – to use the word suicide with the same emphasis that we use the word hamburger.” Angela Caldwell, LMFT It’s important to be direct in asking about intent “I’m cautious to link self-injury with suicide in such a short, abrupt way.” Angela Caldwell, LMFT Rage in families who are too nice leading to self-injury The profiles in non-suicidal self-injury: peer-based and rage-based Social media self-injury and mental illness competitions How rage is often misunderstood – looking at how rage and anger are very different Rage is animalistic and limbic Self-injury is rage (when anger is not useful) when you do not want to be a burden Rage comes with tactile stimulus seeking, seeking destruction Discovery is mortifying The problem with group treatment for cutting The contagion factor – Barent Walsh Co-rumination – looking at adolescent female relationships Family Therapy as the most effective treatment for non- Rewrite the family constitution around anger and anger expression Family assertiveness training, teaching families how to disagree and hurt each other’s feelings Angela’s strategy to provoke fights within the families that she sees and conducts repair

Cultural Humility and White FatigueAn interview with Dr. Sonya Lott about a multicultural orientation to therapy and the work to understand yourself, how you’re perceived, and who the client is in front of you. Curt and Katie talk with Sonya about cultural humility in particular as well as the fatigue (including the concept of “white fatigue”) that can come with this work. We look at self-compassion and education as promising steps for improvement. It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Dr. Sonya Lott, Ph.D.Sonya Lott earned her Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology from Temple University and has been licensed as a psychologist in Pennsylvania since 1991. She is also a registered in Florida as out-of-state telehealth provider.She is the founder and CEO of CEMPSYCH, LLC (Continuing Education in Multicultural Psychology), which offers continuing education that supports mental health professionals in cultivating a multicultural orientation, and is approved by the American Psychological Association (APA) to sponsor continuing education for psychologists. She also serves on the Advisory Board of Whites Confronting Racism, an organization in Philadelphia that works with White people who desire to challenge the racism within and around them and who are searching for a way to strengthen their work for racial justice.In addition to this work, she maintains a private practice devoted to helping individuals transform their experience of acute and prolonged grief. She is an associate of the Center for Complicated Grief at Columbia University's School of Social Work, where she completed advanced training in Complicated Grief Therapy (CGT).You can learn more about her work at cempsych.com and drsonyalott.com.In this episode we talk about: Multicultural approach – looking at all elements of cultural identity Dominance, privilege, and bias The importance of seeing beyond their lived The multicultural orientation is a way of being Cultural Humility – organizing virtue Recognizing cultural opportunities Invitation for discussion Microaggressions in the therapy room Comfort in making repairs Being aware of who you are and where you sit with marginalization and with privilege “Every experience is a multicultural experience” – Dr. Sonya Lott Know who you are to yourself and to others – it is important to understand how you are perceived by others The difference between white fragility and white fatigue With privilege you have an opt-out card The work of healing marginalization is a felt process “It’s more than ‘what’s a good book to read?’” – Dr. Sonya Lott Self-compassion and self-care needed for doing this work Seeing ourselves as human and recognizing that we don’t have all of the answers Recognizing what is relevant in the room Self-Compassion: shared humanity, mindfulness, and loving kindness “It’s not just for your clients, it’s not just to make a living, it’s to transform your way of being – period – that benefits you and everybody you’re in relationship with.” Why the therapy profession doesn’t get this right – because they don’t have to. The fifty years of literature on this topic that is often ignored due to people not being informed, not comfortable, and not having done their own work

“Wear a Mask” as a Therapy DirectiveCurt and Katie chat about COVID, science, and critical thinking in an anti-intellectual, post-truth era. We look at what therapists’ responsibilities are to the greater good, whether we should tell our clients to wear masks, and how to help clients navigate very challenging decisions that must balance mental versus physical health as well as individual versus societal needs.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Should we tell our clients to wear masks? How do we help our clients navigate the complex decisions related to risk Client autonomy, transparency of goals, decreasing therapist bias How science and the greater good come into the equation Is there a duty to warn? Or duty to protect? Imminence, privacy issues Should we try to change behavior around wearing masks in public? How we address risky behavior with clients The impact of the presenting problem on deciding what we do Our responsibility to society, to our communities versus our clients Psychoeducation and alternate facts The process of making decisions around health and safety Sorting through and gaining agreement on what is truth Therapists needing to be informed and be able to sort through expert information The importance of critical thinking and the scientific method Anti-science, anti-intellectualism, and cognitive dissonance How to meet your client where they are while also not colluding with unhealthy beliefs Helping our clients to navigate the current challenges to balance physical vs mental health needs, individual vs societal needs The responsibility to bring up healthy decisions for our clients through psychoeducation The complexity of decision-making during these times

Starting a Therapist PodcastAn interview with Joe Sanok, host of the Practice of the Practice podcast, on why, how, and when to start a podcast. Curt and Katie talk with Joe about what to consider when you’re a therapist with a bigger message. We get into some practical steps for podcasting. We also look at how you can create space for creativity, making a bigger impact, and slowing down.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Joe SanokJoe Sanok is a thought leader, productivity researcher, and speaker. As a TEDx speaker, HarperCollin author, business consultant, and podcaster Joe helps people to slow down to spark more innovation. Joe has the #1 podcast for counselors, The Practice of the Practice Podcast. With interviews with Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas, and Jaime Masters, Joe is a rising star in the speaking world!Joe is a writer for PsychCentral, has been featured on the Huffington Post, Forbes, GOOD Magazine, Reader's Digest, Entrepreneur on Fire, and Yahoo News. He is author of five books and has been named the Therapist Resource top podcast, consultant, and blogger.In this episode we talk about: The mistakes that Joe made that informs his work The need to listen to their audience prior to launching products How to listen to your audience “Fall in love with the pain and the people before you ever pitch a product.” Identifying pain points and the transformation Applying the therapeutic process to content creation Building your audience to the point that you can ask what the pain points are Why it would be a good idea to start a podcast Pod-fading - most podcasts stop releasing episodes within 12 episodes How to choose your topic The importance of being yourself Understanding the goals of your podcast The surprising things that happen when you have a podcast Visibility and connection that comes from podcasting Figuring out your next step and jumping before you’re ready The importance of setting limits around your time – how that impacts your performance The problem with over-thinking The benefit of delegating tasks and dramatically decreasing your time at work The process of refining your business to better support you and the problem of perfectionism

Financial TherapyAn interview with Lindsay Bryan-Podvin, LMSW, about therapists talking about money with their clients. Curt and Katie talk with Lindsay about what therapists miss if they don’t bring money into the room. We look at the importance of financial therapy both for clients who are struggling financially as well as for clients who might be making more than you (and everyone in between). It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Lindsay Bryan Podvin, LMSW, Financial TherapistLindsay Bryan-Podvin is a biracial financial therapist, speaker, and author. As the first financial therapist in Michigan, she combines financial literacy with the emotional and psychological side of money. She's passionate about helping couples and individuals learn how to have a healthy relationship with money by removing shame from it. She helps her clients navigate financial wellness in a way that works for them.In this episode we talk about: Talking about money in the therapy room beyond budgeting How frequently therapists avoid talking about money Bias that therapists bring into the room around money The challenge therapists face when money becomes an issue in session How money issues come up for people who have money (not just people who have a lack of money) The irony of therapists being told we shouldn’t make money Myths surrounding financial therapy Therapists already have the skills they need to do this work The Four Financial Archetypes that Lindsay adapted from Dr. Brad Klontz’s work The work needed to address your Financial Archetype The types of conversations that can happen when you open up money as a topic of conversation in therapy Looking at cultural and gender roles within the money conversation The intervention of “money dates” The importance of recognizing limitations in talking about money

Greater Impact as a TherapistAn interview with Kiaundra Jackson, LMFT about how to grow a big impact through personal branding, speaking, and breaking into larger media channels. Curt and Katie talk with Kiaundra about the importance of authenticity, owning your credibility, and diversifying your income through alternate methods to get your message out there.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Kiaundra Jackson, LMFTKiaundra Jackson is known as America's #1 Relationship Therapist. She has been seen on OWN’s new hit TV Show, Love Goals and as a reoccurring expert on The Doctors. She has been recently featured in Oprah’s Magazine, Essence, The New York Times, FOX, The CW, BET, Vice and The Huffington Post as one of the ‘10 Black Female Therapists You Should Know.’ She is an award-winning speaker, best-selling author, TV Personality and a trusted Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist that gets results. She is a noted expert on healthy relationships and mental health. Kiaundra is the visionary of KW Couples Therapy and the Co-Founder of Black Speakers Rock.Through her early work, she discovered the importance of having healthy relationships. From that point on, she chose to specialize in helping couples strengthen and repair their relationships. She helps to improve intimacy with couples by increasing effective two­-way communication. She is dedicated to helping couples increase sexual, physical, emotional, and spiritual intimacy. Kiaundra specializes in working with couples who truly desire to maintain a healthy, long-lasting relationship and uncover their true potential.Kiaundra’s vision is to help ONE MILLION couples heal their relationships, prevent divorce, and keep families together. In this episode we talk about: Kiaundra’s goal of helping therapists create an impact beyond the therapy room The importance of being authentic and showing up the same way wherever you are (on a stage or in the therapy room) Intentional effort to make your public persona through your expertise, your credibility, and your self – based on the story people might tell about you when you’re not there, living out loud How to claim your credibility, even when you’re not ready to believe it Therapists have a huge wealth of knowledge, so we need to identify what we want to talk about The vulnerability of putting yourself on a larger stage Combatting the haters by focusing on those people who do love you or resonate with you Impostor Syndrome based on being vulnerable and in the public eye “People don’t always watch you because they want to see you to win, they’re waiting for that one moment for you to mess up.” – Kiaundra Jackson, LMFT We have to put this aside and show up every time The importance of showing up more consistently on social media, especially with live videos Showing up in your community – speaking at smaller events, giving back to our community The ability to give more information to your applications for conferences or podcast interviews, if you have a social media presence How to use a larger brand to impact others, serve others, and diversify income Things to consider when making a decision on what you do – core values, financial compensation, and connection – as well as sorting through what is beneficial There is nothing wrong with doing free speaking engagements – but you need to be strategic about it The additional benefits you can ask for when getting a free or lower paid speaking offer Make sure your target audience is in the audience where you are speaking (and you’re talking about what you’d like to work on, your expertise, and how you’d like to grow)

Is Therapy an Opiate of the Masses?Curt and Katie chat about how therapy can collude with the status quo and has historically failed to serve marginalized populations. We talk about the risks of therapy that doesn’t honor the context and systems within which people and families operate. We look at how therapists can create complacence and obedience if not careful.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Criticisms of therapy as an opiate of the masses Does therapy reinforce the status quo? “Normal” as a culture bound concept Feminist Therapy, Liberation Psychology, Decolonized Therapy The history of pathologizing or demonizing LGBTQ+ Therapy as a white construct Bias in MMPI and re-norming How bias toward “normal” permeates clinical work How therapists reinforce systems norms, encouraging placating the system First, Second, and Third Order change – Individual within family within the systems within which the family operates Individual versus collective change The challenge of assessing and treating within the complex overlay of systems The limitations of evidence-based treatments The vision of acceptance of diversity Therapist training gaps The Seven-Eyed Model of Supervision Impacts for case conceptualization Looking at clients as agents of change, as impacted by their context Validating experiences, increasing resilience and capacity, empowering client to make larger changes Suggesting coping skills without diminishing systemic impacts Therapy as a bandaid “As therapists, we can do a really good job of moving people to complacence if we’re not careful.” – Katie Helping individuals to heal, then moving to “now that” The requirement for therapists to be advocates for change within their communities

Exploring Trauma and the 12 StepsAn interview with Dr. Jamie Marich, on her revised book: Trauma and the 12 Steps, exploring how 12 Step programs can be trauma-informed. Curt and Katie talk with Dr. Marich about how to interweave a trauma-focus into substance abuse self-help and treatment centers.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Jamie Marich, Ph.D., LPCC-S, LICDC-CS, REAT, RYT-500, RMTDr. Jamie Marich describes herself as a facilitator of transformative experiences. A clinical trauma specialist, expressive artist, writer, yogini, performer, short filmmaker, Reiki master, and recovery advocate, she unites all of these elements in her mission to inspire healing in others. She began her career as a humanitarian aid worker in Bosnia-Hercegovina from 2000-2003, primarily teaching English and music while freelancing with other projects. Jamie travels internationally teaching on topics related to trauma, EMDR therapy, expressive arts, mindfulness, and yoga, while maintaining a private practice in her home base of Warren, OH. Marich is the founder of the Institute for Creative Mindfulness and the developer of the Dancing Mindfulness practice to expressive arts therapy. She is also the co-creator of the Yoga Unchained approach to trauma-informed yoga, and the developer of Yoga for Clinicians. Marich is the author of EMDR Made Simple: 4 Approaches for Using EMDR with Every Client (2011), Trauma and the Twelve Steps: A Complete Guide for Recovery Enhancement (2012), Creative Mindfulness (2013), Trauma Made Simple: Competencies in Assessment, Treatment, and Working with Survivors, and Dancing Mindfulness: A Creative Path to Healing and Transformation (2015). Marich co-authored EMDR Therapy & Mindfulness for Trauma-Focused Care along with colleague Dr. Stephen Dansiger, which was released with Springer Publishing in 2017. Her newest title, Process Not Perfection: Expressive Arts Solutions for Trauma Recovery, released in April 2019. North Atlantic Books is publishing a second and expanded edition of Trauma and the 12 Steps, due for release in the Summer of 2020. Marich’s writing and work on Dancing Mindfulness was featured in the New York Times in 2017. In 2015, she had the privilege of delivering a TEDx talk on trauma. NALGAP: The Association of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender Addiction Professionals and Their Allies awarded Jamie with their esteemed President’s Award in 2015 for her work as an LGBT advocate. The EMDR International Association (EMDRIA) granted Jamie the 2019 Advocacy in EMDR Award for her using her public platform in media and in the addiction field to advance awareness about EMDR therapy and to reduce stigma around mental health.In this episode we talk about: Jamie Marich’s return to the podcast The Revised and Expanded Trauma and the 12 Steps The large variation in the programs for substance abuse treatment in whether they are able to include a trauma-informed lens What it looks like to actually interweave the trauma-informed structure to substance abuse tx The power and impact of one alcoholic talking to another The importance of connection, community and relationships The changing face of recovery (including starting with 2 white men and becoming more diverse and inclusive) Attraction rather than promotion Validating strife and struggle then challenging it The bridge between trauma mental health treatment and recovery The fear about trauma work within the addiction community