The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Grad Programs Moving OnlineCurt and Katie chat about the quick move to online learning when the pandemic hit. We talk about the challenges with virtual platforms – what has worked and what has not. We look at the decisions related to starting or continuing therapist education at this time. We also talk about the opportunities that have been gained and ideas for students and professors on how to more effectively approach online graduate programs.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Graduate programs for therapists moving online during the pandemic The education one applied for is vastly different from what you’re getting right now The rapid shift to online education and lack of deliberate choices to shift how to teach Synchronous and asynchronous elements of education The requirement for faculty to learn and utilize technology effectively A lack of interaction due to polite students keeping their mics off The spoke and wheel conversations that impact how learning happens The lack of guidance on how to create truly effective online education Navigating time on screens Role plays translating into learning telehealth, rather than in-person therapy The lack of interaction with the material, more passive learning Developing clinical efficacy for telehealth The uncertainty of the efficacy of clinical work in the newer space of telehealth The impact on discussions social justice, racial and cultural identity, due to the ability to opt out of the conversation in online education The importance of figuring out how people learn and how it applies to the online space Should people delay or pause education? What the impacts on the workforce might be Opportunities within the online learning space, especially when the technology is well used Theoretical versus practical base The need to have more deliberate and direct conversations to create connections that may have happened organically The adjustments and planning that may improve the situation Different factors that impact each student’s and each professor’s ability to engage Looking at expectations, support, and needed infrastructure What students can do to better access education during this time Developing personal relationships with professors Putting together options to increase connection and interaction with peers Seeking career mentorship and synchronous conversations Moving from venting and commiserating to advocacy within the system The ability to make changes, be nimble, and put forward a collective voice

Career Trekking with MTSGAn interview with Marissa Esquibel, LMFT on her journey from community mental health to private practice. Curt and Katie talk with Marissa about how she used the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast to shift her mindset and change her career trajectory. Marissa highlights the benefits of belief, guidance, and community.  It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Marissa Esquibel, LMFT“Though she be but little, she is fierce.”– ShakespeareMarissa Esquibel is not like a regular therapist, she’s a cool therapist. With her practice located near Los Angeles, Marissa is on a one-woman mission to empower young women to stop playing small and to start taking up space. She works exclusively with young adults, 20-something’s, who are checking off all the boxes of “success,” and yet, they feel like failures internally. They often come to Marissa dealing with depression, anxiety, imposter syndrome, or codependency. As an undergraduate, she attended UC Santa Barbara and then received her Masters in Clinical Psychology from California State University, Fullerton. In September of 2018, she became licensed and opened-up shop to her virtual therapy practice in March 2020. When Marissa is not in session with patients, she spends her time reading, hanging out with friends and family, binging on podcasts and audiobooks, attending her own therapy, and making sure to get her 10,000 steps a day. She loves her work, job, and life and looks forward to connecting with you. Learn more about Marissa at therapywithmarissa.comIn this episode we talk about: Marissa’s burnout story and how she made the trek from community mental health to private practice Reflections on the question: what do therapists get wrong (and the self-analysis and feedback informed nature of the question) The idea of self-sacrifice and hard work being required to be a good therapist The importance of critical thinking regarding what is effective, what is healthy for me How Marissa made the decision to move to a group practice and then her own private practice Marissa’s experience at Therapy Reimagined 2019 and her follow up with speakers The need for belief, guidance, and community Marissa talks about the episodes that helped her to move forward How Marissa implemented a new plan for her career “I choose this agony, this heart ache, this effort” – Marissa Esquibel, LMFT Marissa’s choice to be vulnerable at this time and to keep on going The determination and belief that has kept Marissa moving forward on her vision and mission The need to hear from (and connecting with) people at each stage of career development

Quarantine Self-Care for TherapistsCurt and Katie chat about the challenges for therapists during the pandemic. We look at what is unique to therapists’ experiences, causes of burnout, and ways in which therapists can work to protect their mental health and wellness during this time.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: How therapists can take care of themselves during this time The risks for burnout during COVID – study in the Asian Journal of Psychiatry Taking on clients’ emotions, reacting together in real time Compassion fatigue and vicarious trauma The strain of “in this together” Lack of the usual go-to self-care practices Lack of in-person community and connection Difficulty in getting feedback related to how we’re being received Not knowing if we’re providing effective therapy The concept of stasis, and just waiting for things to go back to normal Longer term therapy due to lack of progress or on-going stressors The lack of distraction from work or other responsibilities The danger of filling time with work The struggle or concern related to raising fees during a pandemic How work may have become more of a grind Lack of creativity or inspiration The importance of taking a self-assessment Realistic expectations Priorities and values All the roles we are playing right now What resources do we have available to us? Creating separation between work and personal space (through physical separation, ritual, structure) How to identify opportunities with what is happening now Identifying new challenges and risks, how to mitigate risks Creating a sustainable situation even if it is just for now Managing your schedule Connecting with your community, so you don’t feel so isolated The importance of breaks

An interview with Katie K. May about creating effective therapy groups. They discuss the challenges therapists face, different types of groups, aligning clients with curriculum, and overcoming anxiety. Also, the importance of screening process, transitioning to telehealth, embodying DBT concepts, and marketing strategies for filling therapy groups.

Online Therapy AppsCurt and Katie chat about online platforms that hire clinicians to provide therapy through their apps. We look at how companies like Talkspace and BetterHelp operate related to their workforce, customer data use, and effective client care. We look at the potential for increased mental health access. We also talk about the risks as well as ethical and legal concerns that clinicians may face if they choose to provide services through these apps.  It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The different telehealth platforms that hire therapists The boundary and privacy issues identified at Talkspace from a NY Times article The use of customer data Clinical efficacy Risk and liability issues related to incorporating Artificial Intelligence into treatment How the platforms work on the clinician side, how clinician gets paid The packages that clients get on word limits, etc. where they may have to renew early to continue treatment The potential clinical issues with how therapists get paid in these apps What is incentivized for therapists on these platforms The boon to mental health access and treatment flexibility from these apps, including text, phone, and video (synchronous and asynchronous communication) The caution about these apps growing beyond their capacity to serve clients The types of clients who are good candidates for these platforms The concern about clients being anonymous to their therapists Managing escalating risk without sufficient information “Counselor” versus “Counseling” services, which provides some cover related to requirements for therapy services and for employee concerns The potential for practicing across state lines The Talkspace memo about practicing across state lines and the app paying for legal fees The legal and ethical risks for practicing across state lines, no matter the help from Talkspace Rating manipulation – false reviews

Biden and Trump on Mental HealthCurt and Katie chat about policies, promises, and actions taken by President Donald Trump and Vice President Joe Biden related to mental health. We look at mental health parity, the Affordable Care Act, Medicaid, prisons, funding priorities, as well as the importance of voting.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The promises and the actions taken by President Trump and Vice President Biden on mental health Mental Health Parity and the Affordable Care Act Medicaid Funding and Social Services Prison and Jail Systems Mental Health workforce The difference between budget allotments and how much money actually gets to the programs The opioid epidemic Suicide prevention and veterans How the candidates talk about mental health and drug abuse Trumps attack on Hunter Biden and desire to reopen mental institutions Control and punishment versus prevention and support Biden normalizing mental health care The importance of voting

Treating Political Reactionism and the War on ScienceAn interview with Dr. Tereza Capelos on why people become politically reactionary, as well as how this orientation also leads to an anti-science and anti-progress stance. Curt and Katie talk with Tereza about the research behind political reactionism, looking at the characteristics of someone who is primed to be politically reactive. We also talk about how therapists can help clients address this harmful dynamic. It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Dr. Tereza Capelos, Director of the Institute for Conflict Cooperation and Security at the University of Birmingham, and Senior Lecturer in Political PsychologyDr Tereza Capelos is Senior Lecturer in Political Psychology, Director at the Institute for Conflict, Cooperation and Security (ICCS) at the University of Birmingham (UoB), President Elect of the International Society of Political Psychology, and co-chair of the Political Psychology Standing Group of the European Consortium of Political Research. Tereza’s research examines the psychological determinants of political preferences with particular focus on political reactionism, resentful affect and political radicalization during crises and tensions. She is currently co-editing a special issue titled “Reactionary Politics and Resentful Affect in Populist Times”. She has a PhD from Stony Brook University (USA) and worked at the University of Leiden and the University of Surrey. She serves on the editorial board of five international journals, and co-edits the Palgrave Series in Political Psychology. Tereza founded and directed the Summer Academy training program of the International Society of Political Psychology (ISPP, 2011-2016) and currently directs two graduate programs (MSc Political Psychology of IR, and MSc Global Cooperation and Security) at UoB.In this episode we talk about: Intersection between psychology and politics Research on voters who are politically reactive Political Reactionism – how it is created and what it looks like The role of shame, fear, resentment, and anger in voting Anti-preference – to want to move backward, rather than forward Uncertainty, feelings of resentment, perception of injustice Populism as a mechanism to devalue what you cannot have, find who is at fault, how to turn things back to a better time The lure of the idealized or fictional past Reactionism is not related to a specific ideology – can happen on the left or right Feelings and beliefs are more likely to drive decisions than ideology The way that a reactionary orientation can lead to problematic behaviors The problem with being anti-progress, especially related to solving the problems we are facing The difficulty reactionaries with engaging with science Seeking to prove, with confirmation bias – rather than to testing hypotheses The anti-expert sentiment that is based in this problem with science and with uncertainty The insight required to identify when we become reactionary How people label the emotions related to reactionism (and the problem with not knowing how to identify and label our emotions) What therapists can do to help vent emotions related to the resentment that leads to a reactionary orientation Helping people to see neutral and positive uncertainty – rather than only negative uncertainty Bringing people into the scientific method, disappointing them that they will not be “proving” or “confirming,” but rather “testing”

Therapy for Intercountry Transracial AdopteesAn interview with Moses Farrow, LMFT on adoption, mental health and the experiences as an adoptee doing adoption therapy. Curt and Katie explore with Moses key aspects of being an intercountry transracial adoptee, implications for therapy, the importance of race and culture and addressing racism. We also discuss the importance of being an adoptee as an adoption therapist and the biggest issues facing adoptees including suicide and what is being done to help.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Moses Farrow, LMFTMoses Farrow, LMFT is a Korean adoptee adoption-focused therapist in private practice. In his capacities as an advocate, program coordinator, and direct service provider, Moses has supported adoption reform, child abuse prevention, anti-racism, and the destigmatization of mental health. Currently, one of his primary interests is to educate and promote suicide prevention among adoptees. As the lead for the mental health team at the Gide Foundation, he is developing projects that bring mental health to the forefront within the intercountry transracial adoptee community. Research has shown that the rate of suicide attempts is 4 times higher among adoptees than people who are not adopted. In recent years, Moses has written about his personal experience including the loss of three adopted siblings who died by suicide. In previous years, he has worked in community-based programs, hospital settings and outpatient practices. He has advocated for adoptees to have access to their original birth certificates and presented nationally on the need for post adoption services. Moses believes in empowering people to speak their truth in order to be seen and heard. It’s about saving lives.In this episode we talk about: Lack of knowledge around adoptees’ mental health and suicide rate The process of coming out of the adoptee fog Adoption as an industry rather than a way to create families Different types of adoption The narrative that adoptive parents get, regardless of the demographics of the parents or the adoptee – “Forever Families” Internal conflict related to how one is raised and how one looks (i.e., native culture) Looking at our own biases and blind spots related to intercountry transracial adoptees The importance of educating ourselves about the adoptee experience Each adoption experience is unique – there is a range of adjustment, mental health concerns, connection with adoptive family Looking at the identity and how does one define oneself when they don’t fit here or in the country where one was born. Identity formation when one is an intercountry, transracial adoptee Internalized racism, lack of connection to native country, lack of acknowledgment of native culture Places to get support with other adoptees facing similar struggles Suggestions for working with parents of adoptees The history of the adoption industry and why it is problematic Ideas for advocacy related to adoption The recommendation for adoptive parents to do their own therapeutic work #InvisibleElephant The complexity of racism as an intercountry transracial adoptee The importance of solidarity with BLM

Niche BurnoutAn interview with Laura Long of YourBadAssTherapyPractice.com about creating a niche and identifying your ideal client. Curt and Katie talk with Laura about common myths as well as what happens when you burnout on your niche and how your niche can evolve. Laura also offers practical insight into what you can do to market your new niche.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Laura Long, LMFT/SLaura Long, LMFT/S, is a business coach and the lead badass at YourBadAssTherapyPractice.com, where she helps ambitious, driven, Type-A therapists push through their fears and unleash their inner badass. Laura offers free practice-building tools (and hilariously obscene emails) through her mailing list, and her flagship e-course has successfully graduated over 300 therapists. She also runs small mastermind groups as well as a private online community reserved for her students.Laura is best known for her off-the-cuff coaching style that includes colorful language, a witty sense of humor, and an uncanny ability to keep it real. Her unique approach to marketing and customer service challenges the status quo and helps therapists to become better business owners. She shows therapists how to grow and scale their practices without losing their minds - because building your private practice should be fun!You can read Laura’s blog at www.YourBadAssTherapyPractice.com and follow her antics at www.Facebook.com/YourBadAssTherapyPractice.In this episode we talk about: The mistakes therapists make in niche – myths and fears around narrowing down a niche The fear of excluding people when you narrow your niche The difference between a niche and an ideal client Ideal client is about the way a person shows up on the planet, who they are inside Niche – is a focus on the external, like presenting problems The reasons why you should exclude people Scarcity fears – that there are not enough clients or that there are too many therapists Impostor Myth – the deeply held belief that we don’t know what we’re doing Being a generalist out of fear when you’d rather be a specialist Confinement Myth – I can only serve these type of folks for the rest of my career How niches can evolve Niche burnout – signs you’re burning out on your niche The importance of self-awareness and self-assessment What forgetfulness has to do with empathy The difference between niche burnout and career burnout How to change your niche, especially when you have the same ideal client The shifts to make and the story to tell to make sense to your referral sources and ideal clients

Showing Up for Your ClientsCurt and Katie chat about the importance of therapists in the therapeutic process. We look at how the medical model, upon which the continuing education and ethical guidelines are built, is flawed leading to solely client-facing training and rules. We talk about the importance of optimizing your practices as well as the negative clinical outcomes when you aren’t taking care of yourself.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The case for self-care as continuing education The problem with looking at consumer protection bodies rather than the research The goals of helping people and the problem with sacrificing ourselves in those efforts How we protect consumers by taking care of ourselves The importance of being strong clinicians, optimizing our performance The problem with the medical model and framing ourselves as inconsequential to therapeutic outcomes When we aim models or regulations around the minimally acceptable competence or performance The benefit of seeing therapy as art versus as a science How non-specific effects (therapist effects, client effects and effects of the therapeutic relationship) are more important than the specific treatment modality or adherence Common factors and the Contextual Model The requirement for a Bond for successful treatment Pathways to change according to the Contextual Model: Real Relationship, Expectations, Specific Ingredients How we practice at being better humans Why we need to have more in our lives than being therapists Showing up in resourced ways Elements of burnout as specific predictors for clients having worse outcomes, dropping out, or not engaging actively in treatment The importance of optimal performance in creating a therapeutic alliance How we aren’t trained on optimal performance, focus, setting up our environment The need to refocus our graduate programs to support the education that is needed to be a good therapist How self-awareness can impact clinical work The lack of humanity in the medical model and research based on it Who we are makes a difference The need to understand how to take care of ourselves and structure our practice