The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Work Harder Than Your ClientsCurt and Katie chat about why and when you should ignore the advice to “not work harder than your clients.” We look at bias in goal-setting, managing risk, focusing on the client’s needs, and the importance of continuing education as well as on-going work outside of session.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The adage that you shouldn’t work harder than your clients The concern that it gives permission to be lazy. The importance of working hard as a therapist Simplification of the concept of being more invested in the outcome than the client Bad therapy practices – bias, lack of client determination, focusing on traditional treatment outcomes, investment in a specific outcome that may or may not align with clients’ values Be present with your client on purpose, working hard Deliberate practice versus complacency Preparing for the situations that may come up, not just one specific concern The “how” of therapy – looking at language, understanding, and relationship with the client Consultation, self-assessment, case formulation Better understanding of what the true workload is compared to your caseload What you shouldn’t be doing to work harder within session The business implications of working harder Dismantling the truisms and oversimplified statements that get passed around Clinical situations that require you to work harder than the clients Working harder than a check box (clinical implications rather than liability check box) Self-management – understanding why you’re doing what you’re doing Questions to consider when looking at your efforts Collaborative treatment planning (both overt and covert) The impact of doing anti-racist work with clients who are not ready for it The importance of identifying whose goal is being pursued in the room The benefits of supervision and consultation How to set covert goals, looking at work outside of session and timing Dismantling assumptions and meeting clients where they are The harder work we have to do is the work we need to do on ourselves Responding to clients with curiosity, professionality, comfort, and authenticity

Bi+ ErasureAn interview with Dr. Mimi Hoang, Ph.D., about Bi+ Affirmative therapy and what therapists often get wrong about working with Bi+ people. Curt and Katie talk with Dr. Mimi about how often Bi+ people are left out of the conversation (and training) regarding LGBTQ+ people, the consistent erasure and exclusion Bi+ people face, the biases that show up in the therapy room, and how therapists can better prepare themselves for working with the largest segment of the LGBTQ+ community.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Dr. Mimi Hoang, Ph.D. (she/her/hers), Psychologist, Author, and ActivistDr. Mimi Hoang is a nationally-recognized psychologist, educator, author, and grassroots activist specializing in the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ+) and Asian Pacific Islander (API) communities. Since the 1990s, she has co-founded three organizations in Los Angeles for bisexual, pansexual, fluid, and other nonmonosexual (AKA "bi+") individuals, authored multiple publications, and earned a seat at the landmark 2013 White House Bisexual Community Roundtable. Dr. Mimi's steadfast leadership has earned her multiple awards, a feature in Jan Dee Gordon's LGBTQ of Steel photography book, mentions in Cosmopolitan and HuffPost, and being named “One of the Most Significant Women in the Bisexual Movement.” She currently works as a Staff Psychologist at Loyola Marymount University (LMU) Student Psychological Services, Professor of Clinical Psychology at Antioch University Los Angeles, and is the creator of the "Bi on Life" self-empowerment series. Learn more at www.drmimihoang.com.In this episode we talk about: The tendency for conversations around LGBTQ+ training often leaves out information bisexuality Mimi’s story, including the organizations she has created to support people who are bisexual, pansexual, fluid, and other nonmonosexual individuals The challenge of identifying within a binary of gay or straight and heteronormativity What therapists often get wrong when working with Bi+ clients How likely it is that your client will come out to you The biases against bisexuality in the therapy room Misunderstanding, over simplification, quantification, and other problems in exploring sexuality with Bi+ people Bi-Phobia from the gay community and code switching to “fit in” The concept of Bi Erasure The reasons for Bi+ erasure and exclusion The doubt of existence of bisexuality The huge gap in psychotherapist education related to bisexuality The importance of getting more training on bisexuality Asking the sexual orientation question, exploring sexuality Neutralizing your language when talking about partners Best practices for treating Bi+ people

Reigniting TherapyAn interview with Dr. Daryl Chow regarding how to do effective therapy. Curt and Katie talk with Dr. Chow about the ways in which therapists can improve clinically – looking at the relationship, the expectations of clients, and what we each uniquely bring to the room. We also discuss deliberate practice, lifelong learning, and the difference between confidence and competence.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Daryl Chow, MA, PhD (Psych)Daryl Chow, MA, PhD (Psych) is a practicing psychologist and trainer. He is a senior associate of the International Center for Clinical Excellence (ICCE). He devotes his time to workshops, consultations and researches the development of expertise and highly effective psychotherapists, helping practitioners to achieve better results.Daryl is the author of The First Kiss: Undoing the Intake Model and Igniting First Sessions in Psychotherapy. His work has also appeared in edited books, peer-reviewed journal articles, and he is a co-editor of The Write to Recovery: Personal Stories & Lessons about Recovery from Mental Health Concerns.Daryl’s blog, Frontiers of Psychotherapist Development is aimed at inspiring and sustaining practitioners’ individualized professional development. His highly personalized in-depth online course for supervisors, Reigniting Clinical Supervision, serves as a leading light to help raise the bar of effectiveness in psychotherapy.Currently, Daryl maintains a private practice with a vibrant team at Henry Street Centre, Fremantle, and continues to serve as a senior psychologist at the Institute of Mental Health, Singapore.In this episode we talk about: Chow describing himself as a slow learner The value of deep learning The problems with therapist education Banking versus kindling model of education Learning conversation versus theory The importance of practical learning How we get in the way as therapists How to manage first sessions (what you are gifting, versus what you are taking) Undoing the intake perspective We are not in the business of fast food Trajectory of change, continuity of services 20-30% of people come only for one session “Sufficing” our information rather than deep probing “Information is not transformation” – Dr. Daryl Chow First principles and the hero’s journey Evidence-based therapy versus developing good therapists Deliberate practice as a verb “It is so much easier to buy tools than to get good” What is NOT deliberate practice “Confidence is not competence” We get worse as therapists over time if we don’t practice deliberately The importance of lifelong learning The systemic challenges to maintaining skills and getting better What to work on that has leverage for you – finding your own growth edges Measuring growth versus measuring performance

Mission Driven WorkCurt and Katie chat about walking your talk, sticking to your mission, and being strategic in how you incorporate new initiatives and perspectives into your work. We look at the tendency to take action without thinking about where you fit into the conversation and without tying those actions back to your mission and why you do what you do.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The importance of focusing on your mission when making decisions in your business Looking at why you do what you do Implementing your mission within your business Practical applications and systems to support new initiatives aligned with mission-driven work Times when following your personal mission may be hard to do as a therapist The importance of staying true to yourself and aligned with your mission and expertise The difference between branding, marketing, and mission What are you putting out into the world? The danger of putting out something quickly in response to the zeitgeist versus aligning with your mission and your expertise What is a mission and how do you develop one? Getting strategic in how you incorporate new information into mission-driven work The need for thinking and analysis before taking action Sitting with discomfort and avoiding reacting too quickly Intentional pathway guided by thought and strategy Mission is not just a goal, it is how you work, who you want to work with, how you want to work, the guiding principles, how you make decisions Broad, vague missions that are just “help people” or “do good things” do not support making a decision on how you respond to crises Tying your actions to your mission will allow it to sustain momentum past the news cycle How to incorporate antiracism into a business that is focused on addressing something else The assessment of how you can leverage your resources to help something change The ability to add antiracism practices internally that have a bigger impact than having an externally focused product or service The importance to staying within your purview and yield the floor to those whose work and mission should be central Ineffective ways to do ally work, burning out and arguing with people who will not change Tweet Thread from Ijeoma Oluo Our mission and how we are recommitting to each of the changes we see needed in therapy and therapist education

Therapy as a Political ActAn interview with Dr. Travis Heath, PhD, regarding the myth that therapists can remain neutral and be considered not “political”. Curt and Katie talk with Travis about how he perceives effective therapy and how to interrogate the ways in which people interact within the systems where they live and work (and what they consider to be absolute truths). We also look at decolonizing therapy and honoring preferred, culturally relevant methods of healing. Finally, we look at being a therapist (and especially a BIPOC therapist) during this time – the ways we can support each other and the opportunities we have to impact real change with our clients.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Dr. Travis Heath, PhDTravis Heath is an Associate Professor of Psychology at Metropolitan State University of Denver. He has worked in Los Angeles, California and is currently a licensed psychologist practicing in Denver, Colorado. The work he has been focused on includes shifting from a multicultural approach to counseling to one of cultural democracy that invites people to heal in mediums that are culturally near. Writing he has contributed to has focused on the use of rap music in narrative therapy, working with persons entangled in the criminal justice system in ways that maintain their dignity, narrative practice stories as pedagogy, a co-created questioning practice called reunion questions, and community healing strategies. He is currently co-authoring the first book on Contemporary Narrative Therapy with David Epston. His practice has been apprenticed by David Epston, substantially influenced by the work of Makungu Akinyela, and inspired by collaborators such as marcela polanco, Tom Carlson, Sasha Pilkington, and Kay Ingamells. He has been fortunate enough to run workshops and speak about his work in Australia, Canada, Denmark, Hong Kong, India, New Zealand, Norway, United Kingdom, and United States.In this episode we talk about: Travis’s personal history and its relevance to the current conversation Therapy as a political act How neutrality fits into the idea of politics-free therapy – “Neutrality is a political position” Narrative therapy’s role in anti-racism Interrogating systems at play in clients’ decision-making Challenging assumptions and “absolute truths” How therapists are impacted by the stories and perspectives of their clients How to manage clients who have held positions that are threatening to you as an individual The systems perspective on how people behave and how systems shape their beliefs The place for antiracism work within therapy “We don’t need more social justice theories; we’ve got many of those. We need more social justice practices” A framework to carry social justice in therapy beyond the current news cycle The problem with multicultural counseling Decolonizing therapy – looking at how to restore culturally relevant methods of healing The problem with CBT for non-Eurocentric clients Preferred mediums of healing and cultural democracy The mediocracy of typical therapy prescriptions Elevating the knowledge of the other Expertise in asking the right questions and elevating the expertise of the other Co-creation of tools and strategies The liberating effect of asking your client for their inherent knowledge Where to use your role as expert

Ally is a VerbCurt and Katie chat about how to engage in ally work. We look at white fragility, helpful and harmful responses during times of crisis, and how to leverage privilege appropriately to work to address systemic racism and oppression. We encourage people to step beyond keyboard warriorship and focusing on ourselves to taking actions that can impact real change.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Latest incidences of systemic oppression (George Floyd, Christian Cooper) and how they have impacted the current conversations about racism, ally work, and therapy White Fragility and how it can show up during times of crisis How white women in distress distract ALLY (from Kayla Reed): A- always center the impacted L- listen & learn from those who live in the oppression L- leverage your privilege Y-yield the floor The need to identify positive ways to do anti-racist, ally work Assessing your motivation to say things publicly The lure of taking actions that only check a box or make us feel better Discomfort and pain that we must sit in, if we’re going to really do the work What can actually move the needle for systemic change Amplifying voices versus shifting the focus or stepping in front of people who need to be heard Bullying and bystanders Learning and researching on our own, versus requiring clinicians of color to do the emotional labor of teaching us Myths of being an ally Therapists who are invested in the status quo and the white washing that happens when those types of comments are erased The importance of acknowledging history (including racism) and whiteness The difference between “all racists are bad people” and we are in a racist system and thus are all racist The damage done when denying the past, gaslighting communities of color Showing up as a white therapist with a client who is in a marginalized community The need for cultural humility and awareness of what is going on Recognizing reality and how we cannot just “cope” hard enough to make this goes away Crisis management when you are working with risk factors (suicidality, homicidality, abuse) and the importance to understand the additional risk calling police or other government agencies on your clients within the black community Alternatives for managing risk, looking at community resources The challenges of doing ally work as a therapist The slow and arduous process of treating overtly racist clients: listening to fears and perspective

Authentic Side HustlesAn interview with Annie Schuessler about when and how to consider adding a business outside the therapy room. Curt and Katie explore with Annie about how someone can actually succeed in developing a side hustle, looking at the characteristics of successful entrepreneurs and effective products and services.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Annie Schuessler, MFT, Rebel TherapistAnnie Schuessler is a business coach and the host of the podcast Rebel Therapist® where she shares stories of people creating unique and innovative businesses. She’s been a therapist in private practice for 20 years, and a business coach for over 10 years. Her mission is to help people trained as therapists create and launch exceptional programs beyond the therapy room. She lives in San Francisco with her wife and two children. When she’s not recording a podcast or working with her clients, you can find her trying to convince her family to play Catan with her. You can find her resources at rebeltherapist.me.In this episode we talk about: The mistakes therapists make in developing their side hustles Why it doesn’t make sense to go for passive income right away The importance of creativity and passion for the impact you want to have The role burnout should (or should not) play in what you decide to do Characteristics of successful entrepreneurs Why you need grit and perseverance The problem with cookie cutter programs or programs from people one step ahead of you Where to focus and how to initially develop your offering The need for identifying what you have to offer and how to develop authority Owning your experience and standing out Selling a process versus expert information The challenges of marketing and some ideas about how to address these challenges Authentic relational approach for therapists turned coaches The considerations for starting another business now during the COVID pandemic and the global economic crisis Why fluff won’t sell, especially now Creation of free resources to provide value to your community The risk of repurposing others’ work for your own The need to articulate your unique viewpoint, understand your mission and purpose The fear of being bold and standing out Resources mentioned:We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below are affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!Rebel TherapistRebel Therapist PodcastRelevant Episodes:Creating OpportunitiesClinical MarketingBeyond Selling the CouchConnect with us!Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined Conferences Our consultation services:The Fifty-Minute HourCredits:Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

Shared Traumatic ExperiencesCurt and Katie chat about the potential that clients will take care of us because we’re all going through the global pandemic. We look at the humanization and boundary shifts that can happen. We also talk about how to handle the nuance of the changes in the therapeutic relationship to help sustain stronger clinical efficacy.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: How clients may become more aware of their therapist’s own challenges due to the pandemic Clients testing to see if we have capacity to manage what is happening AND their issues as well The reality of the additional disclosure that is happening with telehealth How we’re managing the conversations about the human experience, the unique situations we’re facing, and our clients’ concerns The disinhibition effect for both clients and therapists via telehealth Discussions about availability and flexibility with clients Research on Shared Traumatic Experiences Boundary shifts that need to be discussed How to handle the shifts in the relationship with nuance The need for therapists to take care of themselves – more deliberately and differently than we might have done prior to the pandemic The added stressors that are being put on therapists that our clients are likely aware of The importance of not pathologizing our clients wanting to take care of us during this time The positives for telehealth and some of the boundary shifts The importance of community for therapists right now Acknowledging that therapists who have stayed in the office require support as well Risk factors for therapists who wear different hats and have different projects Resources mentioned:We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below might be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Article by Lori Gottlieb in the AtlanticArticle about the Disinhibition Effect Article: Therapeutic Intervention in a Continuous Shared Traumatic Reality: An Example from the Israeli–Palestinian Conflict Article: Negative consequences of helping and the length of work experience Article: Shared Traumatic Reality and Boundary Theory: How Mental Health Professionals Cope With the Home/Work Conflict During Continuous Security Threats  Therapy Reimagined 2020:Therapy Reimagined 2020 Conference: Speakers!!Therapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Sponsors Relevant Episodes:The Brand Called YouRecession-Proofing Your PracticeSystems of Self-CareImpaired TherapistsTrauma Informed Work PlaceThe Mental Load of TherapistsVulnerability, the News, and You Connect with us!Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference) Our consultation services:The Fifty-Minute Hour Credits:Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

The Person of the TherapistAn interview with Dr. Harry Aponte about challenging the idea that therapists can be blank screens or “surgeons.” We talk with Dr. Aponte about the importance of the self of the therapist in creating the relationship and doing effective clinical work. We also look into his Person of the Therapist Training and much of his body of work supporting therapists as well as communities of color. Interview with Dr. Harry J. Aponte, HPhD, MSW, LCSW, LMFTDr. Harry J. Aponte, HPhD, MSW, LCSW, LMFT, is a family therapist known for his writings and workshops on the person of the therapist, spirituality in therapy, therapy with disadvantaged and culturally diverse families, and structural family therapy. Dr. Aponte was a staff member and teacher of family therapy at the Menninger Clinic, and subsequently Director of the Philadelphia Child Guidance Center. Currently, Dr. Aponte is clinical associate professor in the Couple & Family Therapy Program of Drexel University in Philadelphia. He has a private practice in Philadelphia, and conducts training and workshops throughout the country and abroad.Dr. Aponte published Bread & Spirit through Norton, a book that speaks to therapy with today’s poor in the context of ethnicity, culture and spirituality.Dr. Aponte and Dr. Karni Kissil have edited a book entitled The Person of the Therapist Training Model: Mastering the Use of Self, published by Routledge (2016).In this episode we talk about: Aponte’s story, including his work with Salvador Minuchin, Virginia Satir, Murray Bowen Debunking the idea that therapists act as surgeons and that clients from marginalized communities “don’t talk.” Aponte’s racial background interacting with the work that he did The reasons he was asked so frequently asked to work with families in poverty-stricken areas How the ideas in The Person of the Therapist came to be Bringing mental health into communities of color Social justice and advocacy within the therapist’s purview Working with Jim Lester, an activist in Philadelphia, to bridge the gap between education, mental health services for kids who were truant The ideas of structural therapy being translated into the communities The difference of lived experience in bringing oneself into the therapeutic relationship The Person of the Therapist training at Drexel University How Harry’s personal experiences continue to impact his work What is missing in most clinical training The use of self in therapy The importance of knowing yourself before you become a therapist The idea that you must also know your hang ups and challenges and what you’ll be bringing into the room, so you can recognize and be “with” your clients “Therapy is not a conversation; it is an experience.” – Dr. Harry Aponte The vulnerability of being a therapist and the need to do work your work early in your training The importance of doing versus reading about what should be done Reasons that understanding yourself and bringing yourself into room provides better therapy Resources mentioned:We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below are affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Family Therapy Pioneer Salvador Minuchin on the Therapist’s Self (article in Psychotherapy Networker) The Person of the Therapist Training Model: Mastering the Use of Self (book) Relevant Episodes:How to BE a Therapist Connect with us!Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference) Our consultation services:The Fifty-Minute HourCredits:Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

Returning to the OfficeCurt and Katie chat about the considerations for reopening offices closed during shelter in place orders. We talk through the specific logistical, clinical, and legal and ethical elements of the decision-making process for those who shifted to telehealth in response to the pandemic.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The importance of therapists assessing their own needs prior to returning to in-person work The proposed phased reopening of California The unique elements of different practices that might impact your timing (logistics, populations treated, coordination with other clinicians in the same space, etc.) Clinical considerations for how therapy is delivered during this time The challenge of managing a waiting room Ideas how to apply recommendations from the CDC or WHO to a therapy office Systems to put into place, policies to consider (especially related to employees and wage replacement for ill workers) How to communicate with your clients The need to identify what boundaries you will hold and how you will address them clinically The ability to have these conversations ahead of time, the additional time you can use to move back to the office, if you decide to Telehealth insurance reimbursement – ideas and advocacy recommendations Shortening the work week, using your office for as few days as possible, staggering shifts in group practices Removing items that don’t need to be in the waiting room or any other spaces ADA accessibility that decreases contact with door knobs Cleaning protocols HEPA filters – mixed feedback and things to think about Requirements for clinicians and clients to stay home if sick, to wear a mask if entering the building Waiving late cancel fees for illness, or strong recommendations for shifting to telehealth in those situations Potential liability if taking temperatures of clients, other ideas, etc. Physical distancing, keeping telehealth going when possible, contactless sessions Tracing contacts – the ability (or mandate) to disclose who has come to your office Updating your office policies and consents Strategically planning for reopening an office Resources mentioned:We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below might be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! The Phases for Reopening California CDC Resource Page Recommendations from CDC CDC Guidance on Cleaning and Disinfecting Recommendations from WHORecommendations from OSHA Therapy Reimagined 2020:Therapy Reimagined 2020 Conference: Speakers!!Therapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Sponsors Relevant Episodes:The Viral EpisodeConfidential Communications Connect with us!Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference) Our consultation services:The Fifty-Minute Hour Credits:Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/