Discourse in Magic

In this episode, Jonah slides over to the other side of the couch so that he can pair with Ben Train and talk about the birth and the growth of the Toronto Magic Company. It start with the story of how TMC began. Like all projects there are ups and downs, but from the episode hopefully you can learn from our mistakes and make less of them. We’re living in the golden age of live magic, so if you haven’t begun yet, find a way to get on stage and start performing! The TMC boys have been working super hard lately as they taken on a new project, and a new type of show. They have recently just finished their first The Art of Magic show, it went very well. But now they’re back with a vengeance for their next Art of Magic show, upping the production value and fixing the AC. Tyler asks about how the show was so successful, and how they made it look so gosh darn good. Jonah and Ben make many mistakes, and they tell you how not to do the same. They also talk about how to create a system and the importance of reducing problems when running many shows a month. Some weeks TMC produces as many as 5 shows in the week. So they’ve had to learn, and learn fast. Especially with the Newest Trick in the Book show, which happens every Tuesday and features different magicians trying brand new material. This episode feature’s Bens personal formula to success: Cameras! And how he made his tricks and shows better by looking back at them.  Listen as friendships blossom and crumble in debated about the Toronto Magic Company. Jonah and Ben also talk about what went well with their projects pre-TMC, and working past the issues from the ones that don’t go so well. From all of this, the boys stay friends while still running a Magic Company and putting on shows together. And Jonah wrote a good joke! Tyler asks Jonah and Ben about their past and current shows, and how they’ve contributed to the magic community. With their current Art of Magic shows being the most popular, they talk previous shows successes and failures. They have The Newest Trick in the Book, Tricks in the Six, International Mystery Series, and of course The Art of Magic. To get more information about upcoming Toronto Magic Company shows, head to TorontoMagicCompany.com Finally, Jonah wants to send a PSA to all magicians for any of his shows: Don’t Do The Invisible Deck Trick. Or at least add something new to it. We are still looking for others to contribute to the podcast website. If you want to write a blog or an essay for us drop us a line! Website: Toronto Magic Company Email: Magic@bentrain.ca Jonah@jonababins.com Social: Facebook – Toronto Magic Company Instagram – Toronto Magic Company Twitter – TMC

This week Jonah and Tyler talk with magician Kyle Marlett about his new show Mutant Powers. Kyle explains the ins and outs of working in the world of magic and how he has become a fantastic magic consultant and creator. Having had many years of experience in television Kyle gives a behind the scenes look at what working in the industry is really like. He also discusses what it was like working on his latest endeavour and the trials and tribulations that are involved from the show pitch to the final product. Kyle’s show Mutant Powers is presented by Mashable and Facebook Watch and can be found on the shows Facebook page with new episodes premiering every Thursday. Consulting and Creating Although young, Kyle has become a fantastic magician and magic consultants and has appeared on The Tonight Show, The CW channel and the Sy Fy channel among others. Kyle tells us about how he got into magic and how magicians need to adapt to things like Facebook and Instagram. He also talks about his own experiences with apps like Vine and what newer magicians need to understand about using social media. The guys talk about the idea of giving credit for tricks and the importance of putting your own style on a trick. The idea of not being a one-dimensional comic is discussed and why it’s important for younger magicians to learn more than just Instagram tricks if they are serious about being magicians. Kyle also explains how his ‘colour changing Pringles can’ trick came to be an often imitated trick by magicians on social media. How to be original Kyle talks about the importance of being original and not just doing the exact same thing as everyone else. The guys also discuss the importance of having your own identity and how it is difficult to have your own style if you don’t really know who you are yet. Kyle also talks about how it can be difficult to do your own thing when television producers want you to appear a certain way on screen and tells the guys why he feels his appearance is essential to the magician he is presenting himself as. The guys discuss what it is like to be a magic consultant and Kyle explains how important it is for everyone on set to work as a team. Although people usually think of the world of television as a glamorous thing, Kyle talks about many of the difficulties that go on behind the scenes. This includes the work he has done for others as well as everything that went into making his new show Mutant Powers a reality. Follow Kyle on Facebook and Instagram

It’s time for episode 114 and our monthly catch-up for Jonah and Tyler.  The pair like to get together every four weeks or so to talk about their magic careers and to answer you questions.  Tyler has been slow on the performing side but has been creating at steady clip. He’s had to prioritize his downtime because of his new job.  That has forced him to set aside some quality magic time. Tyler also recently booked one of his first corporate gigs ever, so he’s been pretty excited about that.  Tyler feels like he’s back in high school when his passion about magic was at its height. Jonah has had a very busy month.  He met a guy at a business conference that runs a candy company.  He hired Jonah to produce a series of magic videos promoting one of their products.  Jonah is pretty excited for the opportunity. Jonah also takes a weekly entrepreneur class from a well know online marketer.  He has agreed to come to Toronto and together they are doing a private show for a business crowd. Meanwhile, The Toronto Magic Company has launched it’s Art of Magic show.  It’s the most ambitious project TMS has taken on yet.  They are about to stage their second show with The Evasons.   Jonah has been thinking about the definition of magic once again.  He used to talk a lot about how magic was a much like a math theorem.  The difference being magic ends in a paradox rather than a solution. Lately he’s been thinking more that magic has much more to do with the surreal.  Theatrical premises and comedy has been dominating his effects lately. Achieving a dreamlike state is the goal. Jonah feels strongly that contemplating the underlying meaning of magic is key to mastering the art form.  Tyler argues that is not the case for every performer. A certain kind of comedy magician may not care that much about theory.  Jonah agrees with that sentiment but says that the kinds of magicians he respects are the ones with very big libraries. As the episode gets to the end of the podcast Tyler asks a questions of the audience.  How many of you actually put your decks down when you listen to this podcast? It’s almost impossible to get our guests to do it.  Can you?

Rob Zabrecky is an actor, a songwriter and, most importantly for our purposes, a magician. Rob was a musician in the band Possum Dixon in the mid 1990’s when he strolled into a magic shop in Baltimore to escape the summer heat. The owner of the store showed him a simple handkerchief disappearing trick and was immediately drawn to it. He performed a version of that trick on stage in front of his bands audience and that was the start of his magic career. Shortly after that simple beginning he discovered the Magic Castle in his hometown of Los Angeles. It showed him that this was a real performance art. At that point in the 1990’s magic wasn’t in a great place. Many magician were presenting great magic in a very outmoded style. Nevertheless, he realized that he really enjoyed learning about magic. With the help of a lot of people he cobbled together an act. It wasn’t great. His tricks weren’t up to snuff but he was starting to develop an interesting stage presence. “It was a little bit like a funeral director doing magic,” he says. Rob didn’t see magic as a career at first. It was a huge passion. He was already a performer and magic allowed him to become lost in character. There was also more skills to explore as a magician. Magicians work on their own and so it allowed him the opportunity to write, produce and perform. Eventually, Rob fluked into a side career as an actor. He had developed a convincing character on-stage by that point. A close friend recommended that he try acting. It was like a light bulb going off so he gave it a shot. He enrolled in a community theatre and a year later he had booked a few TV commercials. “The best thing about being an actor is that everything I learned was directly applicable to my magic career.” He says. Rob has since gone on to rack up dozens of acting credits including guest spots of shows like GLOW and CSI. Creating a good show isn’t easy. But Rob says sitting quietly with a pen and paper and embracing your inner weirdo is the best way to succeed. So much of life is filled with boredom and tedium. A great show should take the audience out of that day to day boredom, Rob says. What do you like about modern magic? What do you hate? Rob really enjoys performing his own act. He can’t really speak about the larger magic community. He does really dislike about how everything is documented instantly which takes away from the special quality of a live performance. What do you want to ask the audience? How do you think your audience sees you on stage? What do you want to tell our audience? Stop being boring on-stage! Who should we have on the podcast? John Lovick What was your favourite part of the episode? Tyler liked hearing Rob say that magicians should stop trying to be cool on-stage. Jonah liked the emphasis on the importance of being original on-stage. Rob says the important thing is to always keep developing and do cool shit. Plugs YouTube Channel Instagram

Ryan Plunkett is well known as the author of A New Angle and from his work at The Chicago Magic Lounge.  We’ve been eager to get him on the podcast for some time now.  Ryan worked for a while at a magic store. It ended up teaching him about the things that he hated about magic.  So much of the industry is based on pushing cheap tricks with little actual value. Ryan first started with magic as a kid.  His parents got him a magic kit when he just 5 years old.  It has been with him every since. He started performing at a local bar when he was still a teenager.  He studied theatre in college and had mostly stopped performing magic. After moving to Chicago in 2014 he met some people starting a weekly show.  That show turned into the Chicago Magic Lounge which has become his sole source of income. After going to his first show at the Magic Lounge he offered to help out.  He designed their website and helped out with booking acts. As he became more involved he really tried to focus on serving a lay audience as much as possible.  They try and present many different styles of magic. They developed a consistent schedule as well. Every Thursday they produced a show. That Thursday became so successful that the theatre offered them an additional day on Saturdays.  That consistency was the secret to their success. When Ryan graduated from high school a friend began manufacturing affordable card cutters.  Ryan thought it was super cool and started using it all the time. The problem was there was not a lot of new material available about how to use it.  Throughout college he continued to tinker with a tapered deck. After attending a magic convention he met Michael Feldman.  He was super impressed with Ryan’s work with the deck.  They started working together on a book that featured new tricks for this very old style of magic.  The book came out in July of 2017. What do you like about the current state of magic? “Magic is making a big comeback.  Even Netflix is investing heavily in magic right now and that’s a really good thing” What do you want to ask the audience? “Anyone can have an effect on magic.  What are you doing to make magic a better place?” What do you want to tell the audience? “More people should spend time diving into the magic of the past.” Who should we have on the podcast? Nick Diffatte What was your favourite part of the episode? Jonah liked hearing about how they turned the Chicago Magic Lounge into a success. Tyler liked hearing about how Ryan became involved with people to produce incredible things. Ryan says the art of collaboration is often overlooked in magic. Plugs https://www.instagram.com/plunk_n_grind/ https://www.ryancplunkett.com/  

We’ve been trying to get The Evasons on the show for a long time now.  Then out of the blue they phoned us up and said that they were in town.  We invited them over to the house to record this week’s episode and the results were pretty spectacular! Jeff and Tessa first met at a fashion show in Toronto in 1983.  They had both been hired to perform some magic tricks. They’ve been performing together ever since.  Jeff was first introduced to magic by his grandpa who gave him a magic book. He worked as a radio DJ for many years but always performed magic on the side.  Tessa grew up in St. Lucia but came to Toronto to work as a fashion model. As a kid she saw Mark Wilson performing illusions and was totally entranced. The Evasons act has evolved a lot over the last 35 years.  For a long time they performed a big illusion show. They worked theatres big and small across the country and aboard cruise ships.  A friend gave him a tape of a mind reader and they decided to make change. No one was doing a two person mentalism act. They worked on the act while aboard a cruise ship.  It absolutely floored the audience that night and they knew they had something special. Performing couples is a rarity in the industry.  When they first started working together they weren’t yet romantic partners.  That relationship only developed after five years. The fact that they were friends and business partners first is what ensured that their relationship has lasted for so long. When Jeff and Tessa first started in the business it was much easier.  There was so much work, especially in the corporate sector. All of the details were handled by agents so they were left to concentrate on the act.  Nowadays, they are much more involved in their own promotion especially on social media. What do you like about modern magic?  What don’t you like? Jeff doesn’t like the amount of people willing to give away secrets almost for free.  Tessa doesn’t like the number of people just stealing tricks rather than simply asking. What do you want to ask our audience? Jeff wants to know why do you want to do magic?  Tessa wants to know why there are not more woman in magic. What do you want to tell our audience? Jeff says stop pushing magic on people that don’t want to see it!  Tessa says she can’t stand the dissing of the older generation. Who should we have next on the podcast? Ryan Joyce What did you like about the podcast? Tyler liked hearing about how Tessa and Jeff have managed to combine their professional and personal lives. Jonah liked hearing about the process of creating an act that’s unique. Tessa really enjoyed learning about how Jonah and Tyler think about magic. Connect  https://www.instagram.com/mentalistduo/

We’re really excited to have the co-founder of Vanishing Inc Magic Joshua Jay on the podcast. Josh and Andi Gladwin founded the company on the belief that there was a real dearth of high-quality magic on the market. Josh was criticized when he first began selling difficult, high-quality tricks. The critics suggested Vanishing was giving away too much. But Josh says that giving a newbie a really impressive trick right away will ensure that they are hooked for life. But the company is not based on profit at any cost. Josh says they have pulled innumerable products either because there was a missing credit or because the products were not up to snuff. Josh says a magical act is made up of dozens of different choices. How you present a trick is as important as the trick itself. The same goes for magical lectures. Josh has seen many, many bad lectures. But the golden rule is to nail the performance and to talk as little as possible. Josh will perform as many as twelve pieces per lecture. Speed is best. Sitting through a four hour lecture with only three tricks is a terrible waste of time. Eight years ago Josh produced a show called “Unreal”. It was an autobiographical show that was deeply personal. Since that time he has dreamed about what else he would do in a one man show. Since then his views on magic have evolved considerably. Six Impossible Things is the result of that process. What do you like about modern magic? What do you hate? Josh likes how magic has returned to the stage. There are more stage performances than ever before. He doesn’t like how social media is incorporating bad practices into magic. Using camera tricks is not magic. What do you want to ask our audience? If a group moved up to you right now what trick would you perform for them? What do you want to tell our audience? You have to have a serious passion for magic. Who should we have on the podcast? Andi Gladwin What was your favourite part of the episode? Tyler liked hearing about the importance of really loving magic. Jonah liked hearing about how Josh has his fingers in a number of different aspects of magic. Josh appreciated hearing the compliments about his new show. https://www.instagram.com/joshuajaymagician/

It’s time for another catch-up interview with Jonah and Tyler. The episode starts with a quick recap of the last month. Tyler has made a terrible mistake and gotten a Muggle job. He works at at vape store, which is apropos since he uses an e-cig himself. He got the job by doing some magic for the company and they were so impressed they gave him a job. Jonah thinks that’s a good lesson for everyone proficient in magic. It’s always a good way to impress the normals. Tyler has been performing some magic lately though. He was part of the recent Newest Trick in the Book that featured Jonah as well. He had been asked to work on a trick a few weeks ahead of time but didn’t end up doing that. Tyler was panicking right up to the night of the show. When he arrived all the other performers said they hadn’t prepared very well either. That made Tyler relax a lot more. Jonah, meanwhile, worked a dentist convention with Chris Westfall. It was a cool place to do magic. He also attended this years Browser Bash which was a great time as always. He loves how there was nearly 400 magicians there this year. Jonah has also been reading a lot lately and has been working on a new close-up trick. It’s a coin trick. He’s using Garrett Thomas’ Imagination Coins and loves the possibilities they provide. This episode is the first since the notorious fake Teller episode the boys release on April Fools Day. Like most pranks it backfired spectacular. Jonah received ridiculous amount of hate mail because of it. So many listeners were so happy when that episode was posted, only to be utterly shattered by disappointment. Sorry! (Not sorry.) Since the Denis Behr episode was posted he was recognized for his remarkable Conjuring Archive. He archive is a searchable collection of classic magic books. He was given an award by The Magic Castle for that achievement. We didn’t talk nearly enough about it in the episode but we still want to give another shout out. Jonah and Tyler were recently asked a question on Instagram that they found really interesting. The person asked what contributions magic has made to the wider society. Tyler thinks the question is more about non-practical things like most artistic endeavors. He thinks that magic can inspire people to achieve more practical things. That said you shouldn’t worry about it’s economic value. Jonah agrees with that. He thinks it’s unfair to compare it to more practical pursuits like science. Magic has whatever value you want to assign to it. Jonah is still considering making a book out of the lessons learned from this podcast. Before he does that he needs to know if anyone would actually want such a book. Email or Instagram us if you think a Discourse in Magic book is a good idea. We are still looking for others to contribute to the podcast website. If you want to write a blog or an essay for us drop us a line!

We’ve invited magic legend Johnny Thompson otherwise known as The Great Tomsoni onto the show today. Together with his wife Pamela Hayes Johnny has been performing for packed houses in Las Vegas for decades. Johnny saw a movie about a Mississippi river boat gambler when he was a kid and he decided he wanted to become a card sharp. He bought The Expert at the Card Table at a Chicago bookstore for 35 cents. He spent the next four years trying to learn everything between those covers. Johnny eventually realized that there wasn’t a lot of places for a 12 year old card cheat to work so he decided to switch to magic. Johnny started working on a dove magic act in the 1940’s. He soon realized that there was already too many bird magicians on the scene so at the age of 16 in 1951 he joined Jerry Murad’s Harmonicats, a musical act with a number of hits under their belts. He stayed with the group until 1957. But Johnny eventually decided to get back into magic but this time with a focus on close-up magic. Johnny booked a regular gig at the Playboy Club in New York. Over the next year he would perform three times a week. He slowly began to incorporate more slapstick humour into those performances. By the end of the year he had an act that was almost entirely comedy. The act was an immediate hit. Over the last few years Johnny has become one of the most sought after magic advisers in the business. He had retired the act in 2015 but by then he had already been occasionally consulting with magicians like Penn and Teller, Chris Angel and Michael Carbonaro. Johnny was first approached with the concept of Fool Us about 10 years ago. He told Penn and Teller that the hardest part of the concept would be to tell the magician they knew how the trick was done without telling the audience. Johnny suggested Teller could draw out the illusion but they settled on just using magic lingo that the audience wouldn’t know about. He is the guy that decides whether Penn and Teller have actually been fooled during the taping of the show. Johnny is about to release a new book titled The Magic of Johnny Thompson. The book is a two volume set that details everything Johnny has learned over a six decade long career. One of the trick’s is known as The Gambler’s Ballad a trick that Johnny has been closing his shows with for decades. Showtime recently produced a film called The Gambler’s Ballad: The legend of Johnny Thompson. The film documents Johnny’s life and features him teaching the trick to Teller. The book also features moves that would otherwise have been lost as they were taught to Johnny by long dead magicians. Johnny says he has been incredibly lucky because his career has spanned an astonishing change in the magic business. His first job was performing in front of freak show in the 1940’s. He met some of the great magicians of the early 20th century when he was coming up like Paul Rosini and Jay Marshall. Chicago was the place where bar magic was invented and there was the remnants of vaudeville was still active when he was a kid. Johnny says it’s tough to make a career in show business. His goal was to end up on a Vegas stage. It was the Mecca of magic. That’s no longer the case. There’s no place for magicians like Johnny anymore. When the hotel companies replaced the mob in the 1980’s they ended the lounge show and that so many magicians depended on. He says that close-up magic is the one bright spot in the business. Places like Germany still have a large number of close-up theaters. But increasingly, he says, magic is being pushed onto video and online. What don’t you like about modern magic? What do you like? Johnny doesn’t like the current fad of people revealing how tricks are done online. He does like how many young an exciting magicians there are in the business right now. What would you like to ask the listeners? How many of you have solid, classic magic in their repertoires? Who should we have on the show next? Armando Lucero What did you like about the episode? Jonah liked hearing about the history of show business. Tyler liked hearing that Johnny became a magician because of his love of being a card sharp. Johnny was just excited to be on a podcast because that’s what will keep the art form alive.

We’re excited to have Denis Behr on the show this week.  Denis has consistently released some of the most innovative card magic in the world.  His dedication to the craft shines through in everything he does, especially in his new DVD titled Magic on Tap. Denis first started with magic as a kid after being given a kit as a kid. Card magic has become his obsession. He never worked as a professional magician having trained in mathematics at university. He now works as a web developer and programmer at company based on Munich, Germany. Every big city in Germany has a close-up theatre and Denis has been worked at nearly all of them. The theatre in Munich can seat as many as 80 people. Denis tends to work the first two rows and so his shows tend to be a mix between close-up and a theatre show. Denis is influenced by everything in his life. He reads a lot of books and also finds himself inspired by other magicians. He loves creating the feeling of impossibility in his shows. His voracious reading is all about learning about a magicians philosophy and technique. He’s not interested in just gleaning ideas for new tricks. If that happens he’s happy but learning about the history of magic is an end in itself. What do you like about magic right now? What do you hate? Denis likes how easy it is to get in touch with magicians from all over the world.  He doesn’t like how easy it is for magicians to publish low quality content. What do you want to ask our audience? What is the ratio of magical books to DVD’s that you are currently consuming. What do you want to tell our audience? Be less hateful online! What was your favourite part of the episode? Tyler liked hearing about how Denis first became engaged in magic. Jonah liked hearing about how Denis designs his routines. Denis liked talking about the connections between mathematics and magic. Connect https://www.instagram.com/denis.behr/?hl=en http://www.denisbehr.de http://www.conjuringarchive.com http://www.conjuringcredits.com/