Discourse in Magic

Episode 126 is with Slight of Hand magician Karl Hein who is known for WOWing audiences with amazing and original magic and routines. Jonah has seen him perform both at the Magic Castle, and at a Toronto Magic Company show he produced in Toronto. Karl started in magic at an early age, learning and performing tricks first from a Disney Magic book. Once he started buying tricks from a local magic shop, he started finding out about clubs and conventions, learning about sleight of hand from there. Finally after college he wanted to go pro. So in those 4 years of college he found many odd magic jobs (birthdays, walk around etc.) and gained enough referrals and money to earn more than his professors were at the time. Making the move from science to magic. From there, he focused more on performance rather than creation, gaining a read on entertainment and strong magic. Karl then goes on to talk about context – in terms of character, audience and venue – and how to figure out your type of magic (who am doing this for and who will appreciate it?). Also figuring out how to best express yourself to the correct kind of people. Then, Jonah asks Karl about how he can make magic stronger. He recommends, performing to an audience, but being present and aware to how they’re reacting (mostly on the sceptical and analytic types, and getting them to react) – either by originality or surprise. We want to impress all 100% not just 95% of the audience. Performing in a variety of environments helps, intentionality is important to craft your own show and character (and then changing that over time). This moves the discussion over to the problems with creativity, noting that there’s an importance to it, but a lot of what you do is based on other people. Don’t be persuaded by what you hear about originality. He says that the more of yourself you put into it then the more creative you become. Finally, Karl hits on some big piece of advice that he talks about throughout the rest of the podcast. The amount of creativity needed depends on the context you’re performing in (talking again about character, venue and audience). With publishing, allow more time to focus and refine what you’re releasing so that in 5 years’ time it will consistently be relevant, and also just enjoy it! Creativity is a cool currency to spend. Do you think that a prop can be overused in magic, so that it goes out of style? “It can be, but if its more creative in a different way, then it may not matter” Karl says that with Rubik’s Cube magic, it was being done in the early 80’s and as poplar during its’ come back in the early 2000s. There was innovation then, and there is popularity now. What would you like to tell the audience? Start doing the Vanishing Bandana What do you want to ask the audience? How accurate is your awareness of the audience’s perception of you? And how do you act on it? Who would you recommend to next be on the podcast? Cody Fisher Find Karl Hein Website: http://www.karlhein.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/karlheinmagic     

Today’s monthly episode is a 1 am Q&A Episode, with Discourse in Magic: Nights. There was a lot of questions this time, mostly from the mailing list, sorry if they didn’t get to your question. Get on the Newsletter by clicking here, to be in contact with Jonah and get your questions answered next time In this episode they talk about the state of magic, their favourite magicians, incredible recourses, advice and getting better, secrets to booking gigs, character advice. They’ve received over 35 questions, and many even came in after the episode was recorded, and we will get to those questions in the next episode with Tyler and Jonah. Then, in an amazing twist, the boys ask each other questions. Tyler wants to know What the best way to have all the secrets and not be an ass for not sharing them? Jonah feels very torn, but if he makes it more about the character, method and experience, then it doesn’t matter. He then asks Tyler what he does when he doesn’t feel like he’s progressing fast enough, where he obviously replies that he uses the handy Discourse in Magic Website whenever he’s stuck in a rut (but he’s also cool with growing at his own pace) and hanging out with magic friends helps. We love getting your questions, so keep asking them for future episodes! Also leave a comment somewhere if we got to your question… Let’s keep up the Discourse in Magic

David Peck is a Toronto magician who specialized in manipulation. He is now a speaker, a writer, and a mover and a shaker in the world of social change. You may recognize him from his Face 2 Face podcast. His introduction into magic involved being astounded by strange tricks from the community and his uncle. He became extremely intrigued by it all and once he received his first magic kit from his parents and he started to spend a lot of time in the magic stores around Toronto. David then went on to become a kid’s magic performer and becoming a real member of the community by joining magic clubs. He learned magic from all parts of his community, including the customers and owner of the magic store he worked at, developing his manipulation technique from Herb Morrisey of Morrisey’s Magic He then went on to learn – and later teach – philosophy, writing papers on astonishment and captivation. Moreover, he started using magic in his lectures to further develop his abilities, preferring to bring emotion and story to his performances. This then starts the conversation on how magic affects people, and what makes it inspiring. “Is it magic, or is it just card tricks?”. Our put differently, is there any way to use this wonderful thing we have called magic to make a difference in the lives of the people around us. The answer is YES, and David Peck has done it! Many hears ago he and Matt Disero created the Mosquitos Suck tour, to raise money and awareness on malaria, and he talk sall about the process in this episode. His podcast, Face 2 Face (which is in its 385th episode!), also helps by being a “Weekly podcast about wonderful people doing wonderful things”. Promoting the importance of making every moment count. What do you want to ask the Audience? What assumptions are you currently making that need to be simplified? And what are you reading? What do you want to tell the audience? Find someone who you can trust and listen to their advice, and work together! Who should we get on the show next? Jay Sankey, Richard Sanders or Greg Freeman

Kayla Drescher is a … magician, who recently performed on  Pen & Teller’s “Fool Us” and has a new podcast, called Shezam chatting all about women in magic. She got into magic by accidentally walking into a magic shop with her dad, became very curious at what was happening and started from there. She then started to take lessons and joined a magic society, headlining her first magic show very young (Kayla is also the first woman to MC the Magic Society for American Magician’s Stage Contest). But she also wanted to focus more on performance and go professional after not liking her work after finishing her degree, so she quit her job and tried hard to get there. Kayla Drescher shares her knowledge on learning character, acting, and comedy She talks about the importance on taking improv classes, studying character acting for all magicians and ways to make the audience comfortable. This means making the overall performance run more like a movie. The discussion then goes to women in magic, her new SHEZAM podcast and why there aren’t enough women in magic. She gives a beautiful metaphor about laying bricks that will help you understand the limitations in magic for women, and what we can do in 2018 to help more women into magic. Plus Her Shezam podcast that she launched with Carissa Hendrix  is all about this subject exactly, and the need to stop asking the question “What’s it’s like being a woman doing magic?”, by making a magic podcast for women. How important Is it for your character to be an extension of yourself? “As long as you play it well and have it enough, it doesn’t have to be anything to do with you. You need to understand that your bringing to the performance” What do you want to ask the audience? Why are you doing a certain trick in your performance? What do you want to tell the audience? Be better, damnit! Who do you want to be on the podcast? Ondrej Psenicka Plugs: Shezam Podcast: http://www.shezampod.com/ http://magicinheels.com/ http://championsofmagic.co.uk/

It’s time for the Discourse in Magic boys to have their monthly get together episode, but this time they’re separated as Jonah has been touring Ontario and Quebec. Tyler, meanwhile, has been shooting more videos for his work and Instagram, while also watching other magician’s live performances. Some magicians that they’re both excited about is Shin Lim with his spot on America’s Got Talent and Jay Sankey’s YouTube videos (which are great for starting magicians). In the new season of Fool Us, they’re particularly enjoying all of the Canadians on the show and the potential for more Canadian magicians to fool Pen & Teller. Jonah has been touring camps non-stop, and almost finished with 100 shows – and another secret LA project (if you live there, please send me an email). Although all of this time away from other magicians has been hard, it’s also helped him think of more ideas both good and bad (some of which he’s excited to try once Newest Trick comes back in September). He’s also going to Magi-Fest in Ohio (and the Juan Tamariz Workshop) and if you’re going you should come and say hey. While the boys have been refining each of their styles, Jonah might be finding out the hard way that too much exposition and getting too meta are a bad thing, he also tried the Baguette and Silk trick (but many campers have learned exactly what it is because of the internet). This starts the conversation around weather or not tricks go out of fashion. They also want to know: Can you make your tricks too intellectual? Or do you “just wanna see the goddamn rabbit come out of the goddamn hat”. Finally, the boys want to know if it would be a good idea to get non-magicians on the show? And who if so? What do you want the magic world to know? Tyler wants you to put your ego aside, its about the love and talk to people more Jonah says you should get in touch with the people you need to know

Hypnosis, Business, and Producing shows Dave Curran is a Ontario based Hypnotist known for his Las Vegas-like shows. He’s a friend of Jonah’s (who’s seen his shows over 200 times). Dave was horrible with magic at first, but after buying and practising magic-shop tricks at the age of 11, he begun doing close-up and walk-around shows. He then took improv lessons and, after seeing Terry Stokes live, decided to pursue Hypnosis. After carrying tricks with him and performing for his friends at bars, he built a network of bar-owners to quickly start doing shows for free. This then enabled him to start betting on himself and take risks with snap decisions, for quick results. Also, this introduced him into the world of production, as he taught himself tasks that would be typically hired to save on costs and time. One of the secrets to successful live shows is making it seem like each performance is special and unique  to that night. Dave learned from watching live acts that the beauty in scripted performance is that he can let his mind wander, and still carry on with the show. He learnt a lot about promotion and what not to do when advertising a show, no matter the size of venue. One of his most popular shows was based around a male strip group, and after seeing the popularity of similar shows, he produced this until it became so popular that it ran for 3-4 years. With this, Dave shares how to get into a good production mindset, taking educated risks and scaling prices to popularity. He does a lot of 4-wall shows  and has enough of an education in watching the scene to know how to produce all shows from comedy to magic. How to go about 4-walling, how do you go about selling a show? “The best markets are small towns, near to bigger cities to sell more and have lower costs” What do you want to tell the audience? “Stop carrying a deck of cards with you everywhere you go” What do you want to ask the audience? “Do you believe in hypnosis? And is it real?” Who would you recommend we get on the podcast next? Shoot for the stars, David Copperfield Plugs: Watch him ay Dave & Busters (Oakville) every Saturday night Website: https://davecurranlive.com/ Instagram and Twitter: @HypnotistDave  

Jason Ladanye is a world-class sleight of hand magician and card cheating expert, known for his latest book “Confident Deceptions”, his studies with Darwin Ortiz and knowledge in the major topics of theory, practise, scripting and tension made him a great addition to the podcast. Jason first started magic when he was 5 through his brother showing him a simple magic trick and his parents giving him magic books from the library they lived above. He then watched the David Copperfield special and was instantly hooked, so he bought as much magic stuff as he could. What attracted him to the cards were how many tricks you could perform with one pack, and there not being any evidence when asked how you did it. After saving up money from performing at parties, Jason bought his first Darwin Ortiz VHS, and asked if he could be a mentor to him after a surprise phone call. This, among other things made it clear that card magic was for him. Jason learned about breaking tricks down, learning them as in-depth as possible and how to trust your mentor. From here, Jason went into his own magic theory all about the importance of character, premise, effect and – most importantly – progression. Scripting was also a big deal, as it helps him keep consistent with each show (which he’s still developing to this day). Ortiz is a huge inspiration to the DIM boys, as both of his most popular books “Strong Magic” and “Designing Miracles” are in their Theory Resource Guide. A huge lesson that Ortiz taught Jason was figuring out “why” exactly a trick works and is performed that way. He then talks about the benefits of tension vs surprise, and how to keep the audience in the palm of your hand for as long as possible. One of the tricks in his latest book shows how to do this in 60 seconds! What was the biggest things you took from mentoring with Ortiz? “He taught me that character, premise, effect and progression are the most important things in any performance” What do you want to ask the audience? Who are you and is it consistent to the work you’re doing? What do you want to tell the audience? Watch your online criticisms of another people’s work, unless you can helpfully show a better version of it What was your favourite part of the podcast? Jonah liked applying Hitchcock’s tension theory to your magic. Tyler liked putting in an obstacle to extend the final suspense of a trick. Jason says it’s all about premise and effecting character Who should we have next on the podcast? Darwin Ortiz and Michael Vincent   Plugs Website and Book: cardmagicbyjason.com

In this minisode (mini-episode) Jonah records a short episode with his advice to the responses he received to his regular email asking the Discourse in Magic audience one special question. He asked our 1000 person email newsletter: “What do you want to learn”, and received dozens of answers that landed in two categories. How do I put together my own routine out of a trick? How do I start to book gigs? In this episode Jonah tackles both of these questions, to help you through these areas if that’s where you’re struggling. If this episode helped you, or you had a question, or you wanted to hire Jonah for private skype sessions send an email to jonahbabinsmagic@gmail.com   Thanks!      

It’s time for your regular catch-up episode with Jonah and Tyler. The episode starts with a quick recap of the last month, where Jonah talks about the Art of Magic, his trip to Chicago and Minneapolis, and much more, and Tyler tells us about a corporate gala gig he got to do! Tyler ended up performing during the meals meant there were plenty of other performers around, so he had a free Salsa lesson! (Look at all of the benefits of doing magic!) The magic went well too, he even gained a few fans. This all made him feel better with performing at bigger gigs. Jonah finished the second Art of Magic show, with special guests Graham Reed and The Evasons. Plus Jonah talks about his time in Chicago and Minneapolis, and some fun stories about that. They recently sent out an email asking what you wanted to learn MOST Here are the results: What do you want to learn? How do you perform? So expect more discussion about that. Plus the Discourse in Magic boys, explain exactly how to get on the podcast, since someone mentioned it being their dream. Who wouldn’t? The podcast has almost passed big listenership milestone of 10,000 listeners per month – while still staying ad-free. Tyler also watched and reviewed Miracle by Derren Brown, as did Jonah, and It’s strongly recommended, with Jonah asking if mentalism is popular for a good reason and is this the best we can do in 2018? Tyler wants to know if it’s better having your own style or being part of a character, saying people will just follow whatever’s popular and move on. This then goes on to questions like, how far will magic go? Are some types of magic more interesting that others? Jonah, meanwhile, went to the Chicago Magic Lounge and loved it. And with 9 magicians performing in 1 night, he couldn’t be happier. He also went to Minneapolis, where he conveniently packed to be a surprise opener for a show, helping excite a young kid about magic and meeting the many faces of CJ the Banana. All of this makes him want to go out on the road more (so if you want Jonah to lecture in your city, Email Him!). Want to watch amazing never before seen magic from Juan Tamariz? Magicana Just released tapes from an old  show Chan tata Chan  a magic show entirely in Spanish, but with amazing performances from a huge cast of performers. Jonah even found a new favourite magician, Gäetan Bloom, who’s surrealist magic is just astounding. Jonah’s also thinking of recording some of his own advice podcasts, and he’s happy with the surreal magic he is performing. But he’s still trying to write that book of all the lessons he’s learned from the podcast. We are still looking for others to come on the podcast. So, keep sending your submissions. Links: Conjure Community: https://conjuror.community/the-ultimate-magic-website/ Miracle, Derren Brown: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown-miracle Chicago Magic Lounge: https://www.chicagomagiclounge.com/welcome CTTC: https://www.magicana.com/chan-tatachán

For Episode 117, the Discourse in Magic boys got a chance to sit down with Jason England. If you didn’t know, Jason England is the leading expert on Erdnase, Casino gambling and cheating. His interest in cards started after learning how to play blackjack with his Grandma, and watching the Carson show with his Dad, which lead him to the beginnings of buying card books. Because of this, he stumbled into a magic shop and bought even more books, sticking with playing cards for their portability and efficiency. By then he became interested in gambling techniques, and in the late 1990s, two magicians from his home town introduced him to tricks that typically used fake decks to using real decks (Blowing. His. Mind). From there, his book addiction grew, finding a commonality in reading up on cheaters. This then started his interest in cheating, and after meeting Gary Plants at his first magic convention, reinforced this – and later finding out that the whole thing was filmed. “As magicians, we have to accept that we don’t know something, which is hard for us” he says. Eventually, Jason found out about Erdnase, Expert at the Card Table as all of his many books keep referencing it. And he talks about the history and reasons why it’s important. Then going into all of the common speculations, theories and conspiracies surrounding Erdnase, and the developments on the identity of  who he was. “Erdnase didn’t invent the magic book, what he did was improve it” he says. Jason then talks about the realities of cheating and how it affects everything from casinos to underground games, even talking common techniques. He then goes full conspiracist and talks about inside jobs, what really happens on gambling boats. But it’s all about broadening horizons and moral issues (…right?) and one story of how he taught a casino dealer how to false shuffle. In 2009, theory11 contacted him to film the Foundations course and they’re now filming Foundations IV, with the Double series getting a lot of praise from the Discourse in Magic team. Check out Jason Englands’ work with Theory11 (Everyone should check it out). See what work he’s done with Art of Magic too What do you want to ask the audience? What do you want to achieve? Magic PSA? Be an interesting person first, and a master magician second Who should we have on the podcast? Bill Kalush