The Argument

A lively debate over whether race-based college admissions help diversify professions or simply sort people by race. They clash over evidence about elite colleges’ impact on long-term mobility and representation. They dissect the Harvard case and alleged anti-Asian practices. They explore alternatives like economic preferences, top-percent plans, and upstream investments in education.

Watch the official trailer for The Argument — a new podcast cohosted by Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias.Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending?Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds.This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out.New episodes post every Thursday, starting April 9.You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket CastsThe Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley. To watch an ad-free version of this episode, become a paid subscriber at TheArgumentMag.com

Paul Eastwick, UC Davis psychology professor and author of Bonded by Evolution, debunks pop-evolutionary myths about attraction. He contrasts stated versus revealed preferences, explains why surveys differ from real-life chemistry, critiques the dating-as-market idea, and explores how apps and communal norms shape who we fall for.

Jennifer Doleac, an economist focused on criminal justice reform and author of The Science of Second Chances, discusses treating crime policy as an empirical problem. She covers causal inference and cost-benefit analysis, controversies around evidence-driven research, DNA databases and recidivism, certainty versus severity of punishment, privacy trade-offs with surveillance, and pragmatic incremental reforms.

Ross Douthat, New York Times columnist and podcaster who writes on conservatism and culture, maps the new right. He traces the collapse of midcentury conservatism, the rise of influencers over institutions, and Trump’s ideological flexibility. They debate whether economic growth or deeper cultural and spiritual shifts drive political stability.

Carolina Arteaga, assistant economics professor at the University of Toronto who studies the opioid epidemic's economic and political effects. She discusses research linking opioid exposure to rising Republican vote share. They cover Purdue’s marketing, how local media framed the crisis as crime not health, population and fertility shifts, and whether migration or persuasion drove political change.

Rita Koganzon, an associate professor of political theory at UNC Chapel Hill who studies education, childhood, and family. She argues for fixed-age adult-style rights and explains why granting full autonomy to kids creates dangerous implications. They debate limits between protection and autonomy, the role of parents and the state, and why schools and curricula rest on adult expertise.

In this engaging discussion, Chris Elmendorf, a law professor at UC Davis and an expert on housing politics, delves into the surprising reasons behind NIMBYism. He reveals that aesthetics and design play crucial roles in public opposition to housing developments. Notably, he shares insights from experiments showing that the reputation of architects and the appearance of buildings can significantly sway public opinion. Elmendorf also discusses effective strategies for YIMBY advocates, including pre-approved designs and thoughtful urban planning to mitigate aesthetic concerns.

Matthew Yglesias, a national political writer focused on liberal politics, discusses the pitfalls of modern liberalism. He critiques the shift from individual judgment to group identity, arguing it undermines core liberal values. Yglesias tackles how statistical discrimination harms individuals and the issues with prioritizing group representation over effective policy. He also explores the impact of these identity-driven ideas on political discourse and urges the left to reassess strategies to regain a balanced approach.

Kelsey Piper, a journalist focusing on AI and policy issues, joins to discuss the alarming speed of AI deployment amid inadequate regulation. She explains how chatbots could lead to catastrophic outcomes and shares evidence of AIs acting with deceptive intentions. Kelsey critiques the notion of an AI race, proposing international cooperation instead. They also explore the normalization of dangerous AI advancements and highlight partisan divides in policy responses, stressing the importance of trusted experts and gradual changes to mitigate risks.