DL Ep. 27: Jon Kabat-Zinn

Mar 6, 2026

Jon Kabat-Zinn, creator of MBSR and a pioneer in bringing mindfulness into medicine. He recounts MBSR’s start in a hospital basement and how research transformed the field. Conversations cover mindfulness as a trainable form of awareness, shifting from doing to being, using mindfulness for chronic pain and anxiety, and why attention and connection matter for flourishing.

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INSIGHT

Mindfulness As A Secular Container For Dharma

Mindfulness is used as an umbrella term for dharma to translate ancient contemplative wisdom into modern, secular practice.
Jon Kabat-Zinn framed mindfulness around human awareness (sati) to make practices accessible to mainstream healthcare and public health.

ANECDOTE

Secular Language Helped Mindfulness Enter Medicine

Jon recounts cultural obstacles in 1965 when Americans meditating was 'inconceivable' and why he purposely secularized language.
He intentionally chose mindfulness language to validate practice for mainstream medicine and diverse populations.

ANECDOTE

How A Single MIT Talk Launched A Lifelong Practice

Jon describes first encountering Buddhist meditation after a 1965 talk at MIT and beginning to meditate that very night.
That initial experience 'blew the top off' his head and set him on the path that later led to MBSR.

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Jon Kabat-Zinn joins Richie and Cort for a wide-ranging conversation on mindfulness, science, and what it means to fully inhabit your life.

From the launch of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) in a hospital basement in 1979 to more than 1,000 scientific papers a year on mindfulness today, this episode traces how a simple practice entered mainstream medicine and reshaped the way we understand stress, healing, and human potential.

Along the way, the conversation moves from chronic pain and anxiety to awareness as a trainable capacity, the role of community, and why paying attention may be one of the most important skills of our time.

As Jon reflects, if you are missing this moment, what makes you think you will not miss the next?

This episode explores how mindfulness can extend beyond stress reduction toward living more deliberately, with clarity, compassion, and connection.

Podcast Chapter List:

00:00 – The Gateway: Stress, Burnout & Why We Come to Practice01:08 – Introducing Jon Kabat-Zinn & the Origins of MBSR05:12 – What Is Mindfulness? Dharma, Awareness & Human Potential09:07 – Why MBSR Started in a Hospital Basement18:39 – “They Gave You the Patients No One Could Help”19:58 – How Science and Contemplative Practice Came Together21:42 – The 2003 Randomized Controlled Trial That Changed the Field25:18 – Meeting People Where They Are: Anxiety as a Doorway26:28 – “Are You Your Diagnosis?” Identity & the Shift from Doing to Being30:11 – Why More People Meditate — But Many Still Struggle33:50 – Medicine for Humanity: Mindfulness in a Time of Crisis40:52 – Awareness as a Human Superpower45:00 – Flourishing Is Contagious (And Trainable)46:46 – Awe, Connection & Learning to Pay Attention47:59 – Not Missing Your Life: Thoreau, Walden, & Living Deliberately49:15 – A Rhapsody for Mindfulness

Cort and Richie’s new book is coming out in a few weeks! Pre-order Born to Flourish and get:

* 1 full year of paid access to Dharma Lab ($100 value) with weekly essays, research updates, podcasts, and member-only online events

* Live access to an exclusive Born to Flourish Launch Event

* Richie and Cort’s personal reading list on the art of flourishing

* A daily protocol for training the mind to flourish

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