

The Co-Living Show
Craig Curelop and Miller McSwain
Co-living is one of the most misunderstood, and highest-potential, strategies in residential real estate investing. Most investors hear the buzzwords, see the cash-flow claims, and immediately assume it’s either too risky, too operationally intense, or too complicated to scale. The truth is simpler: coliving work exceptionally well when built on systems, governed by operational clarity, and executed like a real business, not a side hustle. The Co-Living Show exists to make that clarity accessible for serious professionals who want smarter returns without gambling on guesswork.Hosted by BiggerPockets authors Craig Curelop and Miller McSwain, The Co-Living Show goes far beyond surface-level real estate content. This is the only real estate investing podcast dedicated exclusively to the economics, operations, regulations, and strategic frameworks that drive high-density co-living and shared housing at scale. Whether you’re new to the model or a high-earning, time-poor professional seeking exposure to a sophisticated cash-flow real estate strategy without becoming an operator, this show delivers the confidence, understanding, and insight needed to invest intelligently.Each episode takes you inside the real-world systems behind co-living performance. You’ll hear from operators running multi-market portfolios, attorneys specializing in zoning and compliance, designers who understand space optimization and profitability, lenders financing room-by-room rental strategies, and property managers and city officials shaping the future of affordable housing innovation. You’ll also hear from the Co-Living Cash Flow Community, everyday investors solving operational challenges and executing the exact frameworks discussed on the show. 👉 Join the community: www.millermcswain.com/communityThere is no fluff here. No hype. No motivational noise. Every conversation is grounded in data, regulatory insight, operational logic, and investor-level clarity. Co-living is not “passive income.” It’s not a shortcut. It’s a system. And systems — when executed correctly — produce scalable, predictable returns that outperform traditional rental models. This is not speculative theory. It’s cash-flow real estate strategy in action.Craig brings acquisitions, underwriting, and market strategy. Miller brings operations, pricing systems, and standardization frameworks that make coliving scalable. Together, they deliver an operator’s perspective of an asset class most investors only see from the outside. As BiggerPockets authors, educators, and practitioners, they simplify complexity without diluting truth: coliving works, but only when done correctly.You’ll hear underwriting breakdowns, operator case studies, deal teardowns, regulatory realities, tenant strategy, market analysis, and the economic logic behind high-density residential investing. You’ll learn how to invest passively, partner with experienced operators, or simply understand the business model in depth, even if you never plan to manage a property yourself.The Co-Living Show does not claim co-living works. It proves when, why, and under what conditions it works.If you want confidence instead of conjecture, systems instead of speculation, and clarity instead of chaos, this is your source of truth for professional-grade residential real estate investing.Subscribe and join thousands of investors building deeper understanding, stronger portfolios, and smarter strategies, without wasting time on noise.This is the future of residential real estate investing. And now you’ll finally understand how it works.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 19, 2021 • 49min
Episode 34 - Back To Basics For First Time House Hackers With Erin Knabe
Erin is a tech startup nerd, CrossFit enthusiast, and first-time real estate investor in Denver, Colorado. Erin’s appetite for entrepreneurship led her to join a fast-paced tech startup where she leads customer success and is learning first-hand how to build a business from the ground up. Her first real estate investment has already shown her the power of house hacking and a clear path to financial freedom. She plans to continue building her real estate investment portfolio with house hacking and leverage this freedom to take even bigger and more exciting risks in her career from joining another early startup or starting her own business one day.Last week, Jordan Smith mentioned how involved his partner is in his real estate ventures so today we are psyched to have his girlfriend, Erin Knabe, with us on the show! Erin currently works for a software startup AND does house hacking on the side. She may be 26 but she’s well on her way to FI! In this episode, she reveals how and why she started getting into real estate investing. She also talks about her move from DC to Denver and gives a breakdown of her first deal—a 5-bedroom, 3-bath house. Listen until the end because she dishes out some great advice especially for first-time house hackers.

May 12, 2021 • 46min
Episode 33 - How To Focus On FI With House Hacker & Agent Jordan Smith
Jordan Smith was working as a consultant when he first discovered BiggerPockets in 2017. He started taking steps to get into real estate investing, but it was only when COVID hit that he really decided to focus on achieving FI—taking inspiration from Craig and Zeona (!).In this week’s episode, Jordan gives an overview of his foray into real estate investing, breaking down the numbers of his first property and the mistakes that he learned from. Stay tuned for great advice on your first house hack, curating your social media feeds to trick your brain into learning, and how to get your significant other involved.

May 5, 2021 • 57min
Episode 32 - Mom's House Comes First! Flipping & BRRRRing His Way To FI With Ernesto Hernandez
After encountering Mr. Money Mustache about a decade ago, Ernesto Hernandez shifted his priorities and investing interests. He left his W2 and through prudent financial management, was able to help his mom buy a house of her own, and is now flipping houses full-time and serving as an investor agent in the Bay Area.In this episode, Ernesto goes in-depth with his BRRRRs and how this strategy taught him about flipping. It hasn’t always been easy—he’s had to back out of deals, he’s had property managers who took off with his money and contractors who didn’t finish their jobs. But through it all, he has learned from his mistakes, improved his process and is building a successful portfolio while helping others do the same.Stay tuned until the end for solid tips on long-distance real estate investing, utilizing inspectors, and mitigating rehab risks from this man who has a lot of heart for his family - and quality tequila.

Apr 28, 2021 • 1h 5min
Episode 31 - Swimming, Brewing & Rapping His Way To FI With Matt Giovanisci
Today on the show, Craig and Zeona are joined by Matt Giovanisci—CEO of Swim University and Brew Cabin, website designer and developer, AND music producer! He used to be terrible with money but with a little help from his mom (!) and reading the usual suspects, he has achieved FI through pure creativity and good old-fashioned hustle. Real estate investing is only a fraction of what this guy is up to! Matt talks about his pool cleaning business-turned-digital-media-company and his year-long immersion in learning personal finance. He also dwells on his personal beliefs and his WHY.You don’t want to miss this exciting episode because this jack-of-all-trades explains why his decision to buy a condo was a bad one, how he paid off his credit card debt, and why it’s okay to not have hard and fast goals

Apr 21, 2021 • 52min
Episode 30 - FI Before FI Was A Thing! Buy & Hold Pays Off For Legendary Luc Nadeau
Some people are well on their way to FI before even realizing what it is, and Luc Nadeau was one of them! Through rentals and buy-and-hold, this jack-of-all-trades investor generated enough equity and passive income to retire at the age of 42!This week, Craig and Zeona sit down with Luc to talk about his real estate deals and how it got him out of debt, the advantages of DIY’ing rehabs and repairs, and how he eventually freed up some of his equity to invest in the stock market.Stick around to hear how Luc knows Mr. Money Mustache, how one can maintain a frugal lifestyle, and about his part-time job of building caskets (!).

Apr 14, 2021 • 41min
Episode 29 - How The Queen Of Short Term Rentals Rocks A Thriving Business With Avery Carl
After 3 corporate jobs, Avery Carl realized that she did not make a good employee! Her first foray into real estate catapulted her into short-term and vacation rentals, and The Short Term Shop was born! Thanks to her go-getter attitude, she has over 30 properties under her belt and was one of The Wall Street Journal’s Top 100 Agents in 2020.This week, Avery talks about her vacation home loan hack, the diversity of her rental portfolio, and her reasons for focusing on drive-to markets. Know more about how she built a successful team, her recruitment process, and her WHYs for pursuing real estate investing.

Apr 7, 2021 • 49min
Episode 28 - A Nomad's Unusual Road To FI With Location Indie Founder Jason Moore
Jason Moore had a $20,000 student debt and a dream to see the world, so he worked as a “glorified carny” and traveled all over the US and overseas—for over a decade! He eventually bought his first property and turned it into a rental for passive income. Now, he’s based in Norway with his wife and kids, helping others achieve that same location independent lifestyle he’s created.Whether you live on the road or at home, there are always going to be ups and downs so start living the life you want today. Tune in to get an idea of how you can build a business around the lifestyle you want (instead of the other way around!

Mar 31, 2021 • 52min
Episode 27 - How New FI Team Agent Ben Rhodin Got Started With Real Estate Investing
Today on the show, we welcome hustler, inspirational investor, and member of the FI Team, Ben Rhodin! He lost his W2 job because of COVID, but instead of taking it easy, he used his free time to get into real estate investing. He managed his parents’ rentals, learned about financing, closed his first property, renovated it, and got his license—all in 2020(!).From film school graduate to real estate agent, Ben is an example of someone who’s made the most of the hand he’s been dealt. He shares some of the lessons he’s learned from his parents and what he was able to do with a HELOC.

Mar 24, 2021 • 49min
Episode 26 – From New-To-The-Concept To Buying His First House Hack In ONE Week! With David Bandler
Thirty-year-old David Bandler discovered house hacking less than a year ago (in the middle of the pandemic!), and just one week later, he put in an offer for his first property! His story is a true testament to the power of going for it and how important it is to have the right mindset and the right allies in place to embrace this path to FI.In this week’s episode, he’ll talk about his process for vetting tenants, how he addressed unexpected house problems, and what living with roommates has been like. But not only that. Listen until the end to go deeper and learn how David reemerged from a difficult rock bottom in his life to overcome a struggle with addiction and truly soar to new healthy heights, choosing the path to FI.

Mar 17, 2021 • 58min
Episode 25 - Real Estate Investing With The FI Queen Rachel Richards AKA @MoneyHoney
We are super stoked this week to be joined by the one and only @MoneyHoney FI Queen Rachel Richards! Retired at 27, she is known for helping a growing number of fans get their Financial $hit Together, and real estate investing was a key strategy!Investing in real estate can seem daunting, but 24-year-old Rachel Richards decided to accept the risks when she bought her first property. Two+ years and some 40 units later, she had enough passive income to retire at the age of 27 and is currently living off $15,000 a month! Now, she’s the author of two bestselling books with an 8-week online course on financial literacy.In this episode, Rachel talks about her rentals, the lessons she’s learned as a long-distance landlord, and how real estate can be a means to an end. Stay tuned to learn more about property management and also self-publishing as a passive income stream.


