

Napkin Math
Charlie & Sabba
Join Sabba Keynejad (co-founder of VEED.io) and Charlie Ward (founder of Ramen Club, Ramen Space & Cosy) as they dive deep into the world of startups, AI, and the latest tech trends. These two legends of the London indie scene bring their no-nonsense, real-world insights to help founders, builders, and indie hackers navigate the highs and lows of entrepreneurship. Expect candid conversations, actionable takeaways, and the occasional hot take on where the future of business is headed.
Whether you're bootstrapping your way to success or scaling your next big idea, Napkin Math is your go-to podcast for unfiltered discussions on what it really takes to win in the startup game.
Whether you're bootstrapping your way to success or scaling your next big idea, Napkin Math is your go-to podcast for unfiltered discussions on what it really takes to win in the startup game.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jun 4, 2025 • 45min
The cost of VEED's video AI model, did Slack just kill Charlie's SaaS? and LLM business ideas
Fresh off the launch of VEEDs new AI, Sabba is excited about the company having built their own fully fledged AI model, so breaks down how much it cost to build it. Charlie, meanwhile has had some bad news about his SaaS app, Cosy, potentially being killed off by Slack's new restrictions. The chaps also fire off some "Loveable for X" business ideas, with the main opportunity in gaming.00:00 Intro00:30 VEED AI video launch 06:17 How much does it cost to build VEEDs AI video engine13:05 Platform risk for Charlie's app, Cosy21:44 Is Apple's 30% cut a good thing?28:38 Lovable for X business ideas40:58 VEEDs hackathon

May 27, 2025 • 50min
Google's impressive AI launch, Jony Ive's $6b Open AI deal and Sabba's breakfast at the PMs house
The boys have made it to 10 episodes, somehow. They are still talking about AI, this time after the impressive Google Gemini launch they discuss the possibilities (including getting a new podcast co-host). Sabba talks about the pastries he had at 10 Downing Street and if they think Jony Ive's $6bn Open AI deal is worth it.Timestamps00:00 Intro00:39 Google's new AI launch09:12 Future challenges of AI video16:29 AI powered podcasts24:02 Claude 4 release27:43 Jony Ive x Sam Altman37:48 Sabba's Downing Street breakfast43:17 Charlie talks AI agents with Monzo ex-CTO

May 20, 2025 • 58min
Opportunities in the running space, how to stick to ideas and Dracula's castle
Charlie is back from Dracula's castle and Sabba is back from running a marathon. They are both arriving inspired. They do some Napkin Math on the economics of the running industry and the opportunities there, and how long it will be before they can pump out daily Dracula movies.Timestamps:00:00 Intro04:00 Marathon running breakdown and opportunties12:35 Runna acquisition Napkin Math25:18 Building interesting things vs networking28:31 How to stick to ideas40:08 How long before we can make feature length AI films54:32 Ramen Club launch party

May 6, 2025 • 58min
Why you aren't working hard enough, big podcast update and a hack for creating luck
The hosts dive into the rebranding and growth journey, sharing their reflections on the show's evolution. They explore Sabba's angel investing strategy, revealing where he puts his money. A spirited discussion unfolds on why some founders aren't hustling enough. Personal anecdotes on increasing your 'luck surface area' highlight the importance of networking. There’s also a lively debate about the demanding nature of entrepreneurship and the balance between short-term gains and long-term growth strategies.

Apr 29, 2025 • 50min
AI image generation opportunities, how to make an entertaining video and are trade shows worth it for VEED?
Sabba is tired after being at a trade show all week for VEED, but was it worth it? Sabba and Charlie discuss the cost and results. But there's nothing better than a pick me up recording with BBQ crisp-eating Charlie Ward, who finally has some MRR for his SaaS app. The chaps talk all things AI, opportunities, SaaS drama and more.Timestamps00:00 Intro01:20 How much does a SaaS trade show cost?05:56 What makes an entertaining video according to VEED09:32 Rippling vs Deel drama update11:29 AI image generation opportunities16:24 Sabba gets upset19:30 Cool opportunities in the AI image generation space22:13 AI products to help user research28:35 Other AI ideas32:08 Will we get AI fatigue?33:01 Scam call curiosity35:34 Loveable 2.0 release43:41 Charlie has some MRR46:33 Matthew McConaughey's audiobook

Apr 18, 2025 • 48min
Making money from tariffs, bullish on the UK and the evolution of "make something people search for"
Sabba went to Sri Lanka and came back with fire in his belly. He's ready to make money from the tariffs and so he discusses with Charlie how he'd do it. This got them thinking about the lack of energy in the US at the moment, and why they're bullish on the UK as a place to build. They wrap up talking about the biggest mega trend to make money with in 2025.Timestamps00:00 - Intro00:27 What Sabba learned about business in Sri Lanka03:10 VEED's billboard ad cost and results07:38 Tariffs chat11:33 Making money from the tariffs15:25 Europe vs USA vs UK20:34 The evolution of "make something people search for"23:27 Sabba's mega trend - AI wrappers32:17 The future of AI products37:50 Charlie's coworking space update44:49 Charlie's vending machine business

Apr 9, 2025 • 44min
The $100m ARR future of VEED, 11x drama and do you need an audience?
B2B SaaS drama has got spicy recently, with both 11x and Deel making headlines. Sabba and Charlie give their take on why the companies got in hot water and if it's justified. Sabba also gives his thoughts on the future of VEED as they storm towards their $100m ARR goal and what happens next for the company.Timestamps00:00 MRR Show 00501:06 Harry Dry's marketing course08:02 The 11x drama14:16 Deel drama17:50 Do you need an audience?24:55 Loom exit31:55 The future of VEED35:01 Studio Ghibli virality39:47 The future of AI image generation

Apr 2, 2025 • 52min
UK vs US for startups, Charlie's new coworking space and VEED's NYC subway advertising breakdown
This week Sabba and Charlie still struggle to get their audio recorded properly* but the content is top notch. Dubbed the UK's answer to My First Million, the two kick off with debating if the UK is better than the US for building a startup. Sabba questions Charlie's sanity starting a coworking space in London, before explaining how much VEED spent on bright green advertising on the NYC subway.00:00 Intro00:04 Charlie almost gets robbed by a creative director03:25 Is the UK a good place to build a startup?16:09 What to do when you're successful but unhappy24:45 Charlie's new coworking space38:34 One thing vs multiple projects44:33 Breakdown of VEED's NYC subway ad*(salty Producer James writing this)

Mar 27, 2025 • 57min
ADHD product opportunity, Third Space for martial arts and Project Europe
Charlie and Sabba are back three weeks later for their weekly podcast, bringing you some banger business ideas. The chaps dive into Exploding Topics and discuss opportunities in ADHD, creating a Third Space style martial arts gym and building a better dentist. They're also bullish on Project Europe.Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:39 VC fund for consumer brands05:23 Charlie's consumer trend idea22:45 Innovating in the health space24:48 High end martial arts gym33:38 AI Agents43:18 Model Context Protocol49:24 Project Europe

Mar 3, 2025 • 30min
Directories, a d*ck measuring app and a sure-fire $10k MRR idea
Charlie and Sabba are back, fighting through a challenging remote connection, bringing you a cracking set of business ideas. Charlie brings a few interesting product discoveries from Indie Beers in Lisbon and Sabba stumbled across a $5-10k MRR idea while in a Ford Fiesta.Timestamps00:00 The MRR Show ep 201:28 D*ck measuring app03:52 Funeral directory business08:16 Feedback on episode 113:48 Car error code business idea23:02 How to find new business ideas


