The Voices of War

My guest today is one of Australia’s most-prominent photo/investigative journalists, Andrew Quilty. Andrew started his career in Sydney, then moved to New York City and eventually to Kabul, Afghanistan, after a two-week trip to photograph the Afghan cricket team turned into an odyssey now into its eighth year. He has worked in all but a handful of Afghanistan's 34 provinces, photographed for most of the world's premiere publications and won several accolades, including a World Press Photo Award, a Polk Award, several Picture of the Year International awards and the Gold Walkley, Australian journalism's highest honour.  More recently, Andrew has focussed on the written word. His 18-month investigation into a CIA-led Afghan militia, responsible for several massacres in 2019, for The Intercept, was recently the recipient of an Overseas Press Club of America Award. His most recent piece published in the April edition of The Monthly is titled, ‘The Worst form of Defence: New revelations of Australian war crimes in Afghanistan’, which is an investigation into alleged war crimes by Australian special forces in Uruzgan. This, of course, is separate to the 'Afghanistan Enquiry' released in Nov last year. We covered many topics, including: Andrew’s entry into photography The craft of photography The pull of Afghanistan  ‘Seeing’ the people of Afghanistan Danger of oversimplified narratives of conflict Second-order effects of coalition operations Foreigner’s (lack of) understanding of Afghanistan Background to his award-winning photo “The Man on the Operating Table” Andrew’s shift to the written word The dangers of life as a war journalist Andrew’s views on the future of Afghanistan You can see some of Andrew's photographs via his webpage here, read Andrew’s article 'The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads' here, and his article ‘The Worst form of Defence’, here.  For recent updates on the situation in Afghanistan, you can follow Andrew on Twitter (@andrewquilty). If you'd like to comment on the episode, visit us @TheVoicesOfWar.

My guest today is John Blaxland, who is a Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies and former Head of the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University. Prior to his academic pursuits, John enjoyed an extensive career as an Intelligence Officer in the Australian Army including as the principal intelligence staff officer for the Australian infantry brigade deployed to East Timor in September 1999, an intelligence exchange officer in Washington DC, Director Joint Intelligence Operations at Headquarters Joint Operations Command and Australia’s Defence Attaché to Thailand and Myanmar. John's full biography, along with his academic credentials and the extensive list of books he has published, can be viewed here.  As you will hear, we covered a broad range of subjects, including: John’s Army career and journey into academia Building the cultural knowledge of Timor Leste When strategy and tactics don’t align—reflection on Australia’s involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq Were Australia’s commitment to Afghanistan and Iraq strategic successes or failures? Impact of operations in the Middle East on Australia’s understanding of Southeast Asia and the South Pacific Understanding the human terrain and culture—critical to mission success John’s proposal to create a regional maritime cooperation forum for Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia and Singapore—MANIS Australia’s posturing towards China Likelihood of war between US and China You can access ‘Niche Wars: Australia in Afghanistan and Iraq, 2001 to 2014’ here. And, as promised in the intro of the episode, you can order ‘The Australian Army From Whitlam to Howard’, here.

My guest today is Džemil Hodžić who was born in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and was only nine years old when the war started in 1992. In this episode, Džemil describes in intimate detail the hugely traumatic and emotional experience of watching his brother, Amel, killed by a Serb sniper while playing in the street. As such, this episode may be quite disturbing to some listeners. Having survived the war, his experiences inspired him to launch the ‘Sniper Alley Project’ in 2019. The mission and goal of the project was initially to find photos of his brother. However, since its inception, it has grown immensely and today, together with the help of other survivors, his aim is to establish a database to record and archive the life of his brother as well as the lives of thousands of children who experienced the war in Sarajevo. By collecting photos of the Siege and preserving the memory of survival through the eyes of children, Džemil seeks to tell those long stories that have been forgotten as a way of preserving the truth.   Some of the topics we covered include: ‘Normalcy’ of life under siege in Sarajevo Coming to terms with death and eventually opening up about his own trauma Murder of his brother Remembering and memory Life after tragedy The ‘Sniper Alley Project’ The power of narratives Importance of preserving history On forgiveness I was deeply moved and impacted by this conversation, and I thank Džemil for his openness and courage to be vulnerable.

My guest today is Hasan Aygun. He is a Turkish national, who has had an extensive career in international relations, global security and conflict management both as a diplomat and later as a political adviser. Hasan joined the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1983, and since then, he has served abroad in various functions, including Vice-Consul, First Secretary, Head of Mission and Counsel General in several different countries including Iraq, Italy, Serbia (at that time still Yugoslavia), Austria, Azerbaijan and Saudi Arabia. He later became a senior political adviser for NATO where over the years he provided advice to six different four-star generals. During this time, he supported NATO humanitarian operations in places like Pakistan during the Kashmir earthquake and in the US during Hurricane Katrina. He also actively participated in Operations in the Sudan and Somalia as well as in counter-piracy operations and support to the African Union. Hasan is currently an Associate Director at Strategia Worldwide, where he advises multinational businesses, governments and NGO's on complex risk management in conflict affected regions with a geographical focus on the former Soviet states, the Middle East, Africa, the broader Islamic World as well as maritime and energy transportation. We covered many different points, some of which are: The life of a diplomat The nuance of balancing national vs. local priorities in a war zone Reflections on Hasan’s lunches and tea ceremonies with Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi The importance of ‘interests’ in determining whether a conflict becomes local or international Secondary interests as reasons why the West invaded Iraq Helping Bosnian refugees as a Turkish diplomat in Serbia during the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina The importance of narratives propagated by ‘people you want to believe’ and ‘pack identity’ in starting and sustaining war Why otherwise good people do horrible things Post-conflict recovery as an industry Difficulty and lack of incentives in finding a win-win solution in war zones How national interests shape NATO interventions or lack thereof 50% of success in an intervention rests on understanding the culture of stakeholders in a conflict Are all societies ready for democracy? Why a war between the US and China is not likely Finally, as you’ll be reminded in the introduction to the episode, here is the link for a short survey on the podcast. Thank you for taking two minutes to complete it. https://forms.gle/HzBzMeDnGuSGUJi89 I hope you enjoy the episode.  

My guest today is Major General Roger Noble, AO DSC CSC, who recently retired from the Australian Defence Force as a senior officer in the Australian Army. During his extensive career, he has commanded the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, the Al Muthanna Task Group in Iraq and was also Commander 3rd Brigade. Throughout his years of service, he has deployed six times on operations to East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq.  Most recently, General Noble was appointed as Australia's Ambassador for Counterterrorism and is responsible for leading international engagement and representation at bilateral, regional and multilateral forums in the field. As you will hear, we covered a range of topics, some of which include: General Noble’s first deployment to Iraq in 1992 as part of the UN Special Commission to destroy Saddam’s WMDs Reflections on his return to Iraq in 2005 and 2016 Context behind his three rules: ‘Be culturally aware, keep a low profile and stay in the corner of their eye’ Negotiating with the ‘enemy’ Importance of individual as well as organisational self-awareness The need for an anthropological understanding of our own culture, then of our friends and finally of our enemies Suggestion on how we improve our understanding of the human terrain in operational theatres Importance of on-the-ground personal experience within senior leaders Why the military is the go-to toolbox for Western democracies ‘He with the best narrative wins’ The nature of contemporary war General Noble’s reflections on the true nature of war The risk of resting on our laurels Finally, as you’ll hear about in the introduction of this episode, here is the link for a short survey on the podcast. Thank you for taking two minutes to complete it. https://forms.gle/HzBzMeDnGuSGUJi89 I hope you enjoy the episode.

My guest today is Anthony ‘Harry’ Moffitt, a recently retired veteran of the Australian Defence Force where he served for nearly 30 years. Most of that time, he has spent in the Special Air Service Regiment, more commonly known as the SAS. During his time, he completed 11 active service deployments amassing nearly 1000 days on Special Operations globally. Since leaving the Army, Harry has become a registered psychologist and runs a human performance consultancy working with sports teams, the military and industry. He is also the Asia-Pacific Director for the Mission Critical Team Institute. He is also the lead singer and songwriter for the rock band The Externals. Harry also recently authored his memoir, 'Eleven Bats', which is a book about his military service, the SAS and his love of cricket. Along with the book, some of the other topics we covered are: Harry's journey into the SAS The first years of the war in Afghanistan  How strategy translates into tactics or how it fails to do so Importance of understanding the human terrain Change in how the SAS came to be used  The price of war paid by those most-vulnerable Selecting the right people for the SAS The act of killing and its aftermath  Ethics of war and its link to mental wellbeing The price paid by family members of those who serve The power of cricket on deployments  The role of education in a soldier's life  This was a hugely satisfying and rich discussion and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did recording it.  Harry's book 'Eleven Bats' is available at: https://www.dymocks.com.au/book/eleven-bats-by-anthony-harry-moffitt-9781760877842 Harry's podcast with Deane-Peter Baker that we mentioned is available as episode #18 at: https://missioncti.com/teamcast/ Finally, the Externals recently released their new single 'The Hell Beyond' on Spotify. You can find it at: https://open.spotify.com/album/5NNRcziDrTnwr6orAT6R3N  

My guest today is Cian O’Driscoll. He is originally from Limerick, in the Southwest of Ireland where he completed his schooling and undergraduate degree, before moving to Nova Scotia, and then Wales, for Grad School. He completed his PhD at the University of Wales, Aberystwyth, and worked at the University of Glasgow before joining the Australian National University, Canberra in 2020.  His principal area of research is the intersection between normative international relations theory and the history of political thought, with a particular focus on the ethics of war. His published work examines the development of the just war tradition over time and the role it plays in circumscribing contemporary debates about the rights and wrongs of warfare. These themes are reflected in his two monographs: Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2019) and The Renegotiation of the Just War Tradition (New York: Palgrave, 2008). Cian has also co-edited three volumes and his work has been published in leading journals in the field, including International Studies Quarterly, the European Journal of International Relations, the Journal of Strategic Studies, the Journal of Global Security Studies, Review of International Studies, Ethics & International Affairs, and Millennium. Some of the topics we covered today are: Cian’s research on the narratives that the Bush and Blair administrations used to frame the 2003 war in Iraq Reflections on the widening of the jus ad bellum (justifications for war) since the end of the Cold War and its consequences Exploration of Gulf War 1 as a ‘just war’ and the potential irony of its aftermath The inability of Just War Theory, try hard as it might, to sanitise war The challenge faced by military leaders when wrestling with Just War Theory ‘Just War is just war’ I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion with Cian, and hope you do as well. I recently finished his book that we frequently mention, Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War, and can warmly recommend it to anyone contemplating the complexities of Just War Theory—the principle tool used by Western militaries to manage conflict. 

My guest today is Pip Weiland. She commissioned into the Australian Army Psychology Corps in 2003, and in her career performed diverse roles across clinical, organisational, professional development, research and staff positions. She has deployed to the Solomon Islands, Iraq, and to Afghanistan on two occasions. Whilst deployed to Afghanistan, she was the lead in the critical incident response to Australian Army soldiers killed in action. She ended her military career in 2020, as the Commanding Officer, 1st Psychology Unit. Pip was awarded a Conspicuous Service Cross in the 2018 Queen’s Birthday Honours for the superior management of several sensitive, high-profile matters including the immediate psychological response to witnesses to the death of a soldier in training. Pip is passionate about evidence-based treatments and has a special interest in psychological resilience and the mental health issues associated with exposure to combat. She is now a Regional Director for Open Arms – an organisation focused on providing mental health and wellbeing support for current and ex-serving Australian Defence Force personnel and their families. Some of the topics we covered are: Psychological screening on operations Stigma surrounding psychological treatment Truth about ongoing employability despite mental health challenges Critical incident management in response to death on operations The importance of the ‘tribe’ for mental wellbeing The process of identity creation in the military Suicide rates in defence members Treatment of mental health challenges Services offered by Open Arms This was another hugely insightful episode that touched on many aspects of mental health challenges experienced by veterans and their families. For our Australian audience, particularly around ANZAC Day, please look out for one another and reach out to any of the numbers below if you or someone you know may need a helping hand: All-hours Support Line (1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)   Open Arms (VVCS) 1800 011 046 https://www.openarms.gov.au/   1800 IMSICK (1800 624 608)   Defence Community Organisation (DCO) Defence Family Helpline 1800 624 608 http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/   Lifeline 13 11 14 https://www.lifeline.org.au   Suicide Call back service 1300 659 467 https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au   Soldier On 1300 620 380 www.soldieron.org.au

My guest today is Brendan Cox. He has served in the Australian Army for 25 years, first as a soldier, and later as an officer in the Infantry Corps. During his time, he has done a number of operational tours including to Bosnia, East Timor and Afghanistan. For his exemplary service, he has received a number of awards, including a Commendation for Distinguished Service in the Australia Day Honours List in 2014.  Brendan is now the Chief Executive Officer of Legacy Brisbane, an organisation that supports families who are experiencing hardship due to the loss or injury of a loved one while serving in the armed forces. Some of the topics we covered are: Brendan’s first encounter with death on operations while in Bosnia Healing our own wounds by helping others Responsibilities of command Importance of staying engaged with families while loved ones are deployed Building partnerships with foreign forces Importance of understanding the human terrain Legacy and its work with families Legacy and its work with youth As you will hear, this was a truly humbling conversation and I encourage you to support the work done by Legacy. You can find more details on: https://www.legacy.com.au/        

My guest today is Tomislav (Tomo) Cvitanusic. He is a well-known figure across the Balkans and beyond, not only for being an extreme alpinist and long-distance athlete, but also for his promotion of cooperation and unity across the region. As one of the many who served in the Bosnian Army from 1992-1995, Tomo spent the whole war in his city, Sarajevo. At the end of the war, he became a beacon of positivity across the region by promoting tolerance, hard work and patience. He was one of the few who in the early days after the war sought to become the change he wanted to see in his community. This quest for betterment has led him to conquering some of the world’s highest mountains including Mt. Blanc, GrossGlockner, Elbrus, Ararat, Aconcagua, Denali, and the famous Matterhorn. He has completed more than fifteen marathons around the world, including four of the "World’s Major Marathons” in Berlin, Boston, NYC and London. Recently, he also became the first person from the former Yugoslav republics to complete the prestigious and most extreme triathlon in the world, NORSEMAN in Norway. As you will hear, we talked about some of his experiences from the war and how these shaped who he became. Some of the topics we covered are: What life inside a war zone is really like Banality of conflict and how we can rebuild trust in disrupted communities. Survival of humanity and decency inside a war zone Where Bosnia and Herzegovina is today, more than 25 years after Dayton Links between life in a war zone and endurance sports Tomo’s views about the transience of life and responsibility to help others I walked away from this conversation inspired to find new ways to contribute to my community. I wish you the same and hope that you enjoy this episode.