Reversing Climate Change

Sarah Godek, China policy expert on geopolitics and carbon security. She explains China’s energy-security driven clean-tech strengths and why coal still dominates. They explore Chinese views of global leadership, legitimacy, and Taiwan’s calculus. Discussion covers China’s preference for sinks and reforestation over engineered CDR, Tencent’s CarbonX prizes, and institutional gaps for carbon removal policy.

I've had a poem stuck in my head, and it isn't one of biophilia and whimsy. It's about liminality, death, and interregna. Let me read for you one of my favorites and one of the all-time classics of Enlighs literature, William Butler Yeats's "The Second Coming". While beautiful for its own sake, I'll also make a case for the defense of useless things, an argument for the horror genre as a serious art form, and a close reading of a poem that has become a kind of shared vocabulary for moments when the center will not hold.I work through the imagery line by line, and connect it to everything from Frankenstein and Genesis's exile from Eden, to Tig Notaro's stage presence, to theriantropic madness from The Office's Michael Scott, to H.P. Lovecraft, to Slavoj Žižek on Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds, and more.The trigger wasn't climate policy rollback or the war in Iran, as you might guess—it was actually thinking about artificial general intelligence, and that the falcon that can no longer hear the falconer.Listen in to hear more about why "The Second Coming" reads as present-progressive horror rather than past-tense lament, why "troubles my sight" is a master class in economy of language, what monsters are actually for (the etymology connects to the Spanish mostrar—to show; which I minority mispronounce in my freestyling—forgive me!), how Hereditary, The Babadook, and Jordan Peele's films use horror to talk about grief, depression, and race, and why this liminal moment between world orders feels so monstrous: not because the new world has arrived, but because the rough beast is only now slouching toward Bethlehem."The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters."- Antonio GramsciResources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠"The Second Coming" by William Butler YeatsPaul Muldoon's reading of "The Second Coming"In Praise of the Useless Life: A Monk's Memoir by Paul Quenon (referenced via Thomas Merton)Slouching Towards Bethlehem by Joan DidionEschatology on WikipediaThings Fall Apart by Chinua AchebeParis 1919: Six Months That Changed the World by Margaret MacMillanParis 1919 (album) by John CalePervert's Guide to Cinema — Slavoj Žižek on Hitchcock's The BirdsSegment on The BirdsTreaty of VersaillesTreaty of Trianon (I didn't mention this by name, but I've been thinking a lot about how it shaped/shapes Central Europe.)HereditaryThe BabadookJordan PeeleHP LovecraftId, ego, superego in Freudian psychoanalysisMichael Scott's theriantrope fantasy/nightmare/prophecy from The Office

This is the kind of episode you put on and laugh along with us. This isn't the one where you'll get super quick tech takeaways within 30 minutes that you can drop at your next meeting. It's something else entirely.Emily Swaddle, co-host of The Carbon Removal Show and one of the funniest people in carbon removal, joins Ross for a wide-ranging conversation about life, art, language, climate communications, and the absurdity of having a career in all of the above. A good chunk of the reason The Carbon Removal Show is so fun is because Emily is so fun, and this episode is basically an extended version of her (in)famous segment on TCRS, "Emily's Language Chat".Emily Swaddle is a storyteller, communicator, and co-host of The Carbon Removal Show alongside Ben Weaver-Hincks and Tom Previte. She's been making the show since 2020, producing deeply researched, highly produced seasons that have become a go-to educational resource for the carbon removal community. Emily brings a unique perspective shaped by her background in the arts, her love of language, and her instinct that the climate conversation needs more humanity, more humor, and far less jargon.Listen in to hear more about why Emily thinks silliness and vulnerability are underrated tools in climate communication, and why we even bother doing this climate work when it isn't the glamorous, high-paying energy executive type work.You'll also hear about the Carbon Removal Show Coalition funding model, the tension between monetizing the natural world and actually caring about it, how British class dynamics show up in language and accent, why being a generalist in a specialist world is both a gift and a curse, and what happens when two podcast hosts stop talking about carbon removal policy and start talking about Disney villain queer coding, Mary Poppins, and whether "rabbit tube" should be a phrase.Special thanks to the team at The Carbon Removal Show for loaning us the perfection that is the "Emily's Language Chat" reggae jingle."Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."- Ludwig WittgensteinThis Episode's Sponsor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Resources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠The Carbon Removal Show podcast"Wild Geese" by Mary OliverThe Carbon Removal Show CoalitionWhy Would You Say Something So Controversial Yet So Brave?Unruly: The Ridiculous History of England's Kings and Queens by David MitchellWhat Makes Disney Villains so Gay?Money can be exchanged for goods and services from The Simpsons"The Darmine Doggy Door" from I Think You Should LeaveRange: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World by David EpsteinSumptuary Law

Right now, the world's climate policy architecture is under siege. The US has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement and UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). Right-wing populism is rising across Europe. And Europe itself is torn between defending against geopolitical threats and sustaining the climate policies it has spent years building.What happens to carbon removal in this environment? And what happens to CORSIA—The Carbon Offsetting and Reduction Scheme for International Aviation from within the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)—when a key moment of judgment arrives this June?Lev Gantly is a partner at Philip Lee LLP, a law firm specializing in carbon markets and climate law, and one of Reversing Climate Change's sponsors. He advises a broad range of clients on emissions reduction and carbon dioxide removal projects, both through natural solutions like biochar and engineered technologies.His deep understanding of international carbon markets, Article 6 of the Paris Agreement, and the evolving regulatory landscape makes him a critical voice on where climate policy is actually heading—and where it can actually survive political pressure.Listen in to hear more about how CORSIA works and why it matters (or doesn't matter so much?) for carbon removal. You'll also learn about the specific moment this June when the EU must decide whether to keep the scheme or revert to its original plan to impose its own emissions trading system on international aviation.Plus, where Lev is actually seeing durable policy support for carbon removal right now—and what it takes to make climate policy sticky enough to outlast a change in government.This Episode's Sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Resources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠Lev GantlyPhilip Lee LLPLinear reduction factorEuropean Union Emissions Trading SystemICAOCORSIANDCs"How Carbon Removal Loses: The End of "Pre-Compliance""

The foundational assumption of carbon removal has been the "pre-compliance" story—that the voluntary carbon market and early corporate offtakes are necessary but not sufficient, and that we're all waiting for compliance to automate demand. That story depends on Japan, Canada, the EU, and the UK carrying the torch while the US sits on the sidelines heckling.In this monologue episode, I walk through why I no longer think that story holds. Right-wing populism is surging across every country the pre-compliance story depends on. Energy prices are climbing. Growth is stalling. And voters facing rising costs and security threats don't prioritize abstract, probabilistic, future-oriented problems no matter how catastrophic those problems actually are.This isn't a doom episode. It's a planning episode. If you work on anything strategic in carbon removal or climate tech, you need a clear-eyed view of what the world is actually doing—and a plan for what your company looks like if the world doesn't regress to the mean."If you want to make an omelette, you've got to break a few eggs."- Joseph Stalin"Where's the omelette?"- George OrwellThis Episode's Sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Resources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠338: Carbon Security and the Geopolitics of Carbon Removal—w/ Sarah Godek364: Lowering the Onion into Hell: Strategic Realism vs. Christian PacifismSanae TakaichiPierre PoilievreMark CarneyAlbertan secessionismNational RallyGilets Jaunes (yellow jackets)Friedrich MerzWillam F. Buckley Jr.Alternative for Germany (Alternative für Deutschland) partyNigel FarageReform UK

Omar Sadoon, Director of Strategic Partnerships at Planetary Technologies and former mental health nurse, talks about ocean alkalinity enhancement and the logistics of sourcing and moving alkaline materials. He covers site selection, life-cycle constraints, lessons from Cornwall and Tufts Cove, community engagement, and why relationships and measurement matter in scaling alkalinity-based carbon removal.

Sometimes when people think they are coming at an issue from first principles, they're already pretty far downstream. What if rethinking an issue means really blowing past the current framework entirely and figuring out how to get the result in an entirely new way?Emma Fuller is the Cofounder of Fractal Agriculture, a firm which takes minority equity stakes in farmland to help farmers switch to more regenerative practices.Listen in to hear more about how to do business in an extremely creative way that blends customer insights and clever design to reduce friction, correct misaligned incentives, and the bypass the pathologies of the old way of doing things.This Episode's Sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com⁠⁠⁠⁠Resources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠Fractal AgricultureFractal Ag on LinkedIn

Carbon removal used to have technology developers who were also project developers. But oh, the times they are a-changin'...What happens when grizzled CDR veterans pluck technology off the shelf and focus on developing projects that produce highly insurable, investable, and offtakeable carbon removal credits?You get something like Residual Carbon.Ted Christie-Miller is the cofounder of Residual and is on the show to discuss the lessons he learned from one year as the carbon partner of numerous projects he has under development, as well as his process of raising funds from family offices.This Episode's Sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com⁠⁠⁠Resources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠Residual CarbonPeep Show

Sometimes we talk carbon removal. Sometimes we talk poetry. Come let me read you one of my favorite Walt Whitman poems from "Song of Myself" in Leaves of Grass. We'll also explore why it's okay to love only some elements of a work of art, and why Whitman's kaleidoscopic view of grass is so remarkable.A child said What is the grass? fetching it to me with full hands;How could I answer the child? I do not know what it is any more than he.I guess it must be the flag of my disposition, out of hopeful green stuff woven.Or I guess it is the handkerchief of the Lord,A scented gift and remembrancer designedly dropt,Bearing the owner's name someway in the corners, that we may see and remark, and say Whose?Or I guess the grass is itself a child, the produced babe of the vegetation.Or I guess it is a uniform hieroglyphic,And it means, Sprouting alike in broad zones and narrow zones,Growing among black folks as among white,Kanuck, Tuckahoe, Congressman, Cuff, I give them the same, I receive them the same.And now it seems to me the beautiful uncut hair of graves.Tenderly will I use you curling grass,It may be you transpire from the breasts of young men,It may be you are from old people, or from offspring taken,It may be if I had known them I would have loved them, soon out of their mothers' laps,And here you are the mothers' laps.This grass is very dark to be from the white heads of old mothers,Darker than the colorless beards of old men,Dark to come from under the faint red roofs of mouths.O I perceive after all so many uttering tongues,And I perceive they do not come from the roofs of mouths for nothing. I wish I could translate the hints about the dead young men and women,And the hints about old men and mothers, and the offspring taken soon out of their laps.What do you think has become of the young and old men?And what do you think has become of the women and children?They are alive and well somewhere,The smallest sprout shows there is really no death,And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait at the end to arrest it,And ceas'd the moment life appear'd.All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses,And to die is different from what any one supposed, and luckier.—From Leaves of Grass (David McKay, Publisher, 1891) by Walt Whitman.Resources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠Song of Myself, 6 [A child said, What is the grass?] from Leaves of GrassWalt WhitmanLeave of GrassFreemasonry

Are we trying to get parts per million of greenhouse gases down as quickly as possible? Or are also trying to solve the nested problems of fertility, toxicity, and resilience as well as the systems that got us here in the first place?In this episode, I contrast high carbon-efficiency biomass burial approaches (Biomass Carbon Removal and Storage/BiCRS) with biochar and other methods that sacrifice some carbon efficiency but generate wide-ranging cobenefits.We explore commodification, fungibility, and the dream of a “ton is a ton” carbon market—alongside the discomfort some feel when complex ecological realities get flattened into a single tradeable metric. Is that clarity necessary for scale, or does it repeat the same abstractions that helped create the crisis?Ultimately, this isn’t a fight between good and bad actors. It’s a productive friction between two worldviews: the PPM-obsessed technocrats and the polycrisis systems thinkers each have their own blindspots and their own superpowers. My hope is not to settle the debate, but to help you notice where your intuitions land—and why." we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we use when we created them."- Albert Einstein" The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house."- Audre Lorde" If a problem cannot be solved, enlarge it."- Dwight D. EisenhowerThis Episode's Sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry ⁠⁠⁠⁠"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com⁠⁠Resources⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠"385: Polycrisis, Collapse, Rebirth: Is Regenerative Economics Inevitable?—w/ Eugene Kirpichov, Work on Climate""384: Graphyte's Strategy is a Masterpiece of Simplicity—w/ Barclay Rogers & Hannah Murnen"