The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

Kahina Ouerdane, Chief People Officer at Workleap, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about her journey from international human rights law to tech, how software is the new workplace, why AI is forcing a rethinking of learning and org design, and more.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.🔗 Get your free 30-day Synthesia account.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:43) Kahina’s Origin Story: From Human Rights Lawyer to People Leader(07:56) Discovering Her “Why” and the Power of Collective Harmony(11:11) Intro to Workleap: Origins of Gsoft (12:34) Workleap's Growth and Mission to Make Work Simpler(14:54) Overview of the Workleap Product Suite(16:21) Officevibe, Pingboard, Barley, and the Future of the Platform(18:34) The “Foggy Road” of AI (19:22) AI is a New Language: Learning Amidst Uncertainty(21:38) Why IT Now Reports to HR at Workleap(24:34) IT and Onboarding: Lessons from M&A and Employee Experience(26:46) Why HR May Be Better Suited Than IT to Lead Change(28:33) How IT and HR Are Co-Learning AI Together(29:52) Rethinking What Learning Means in an AI-Powered World(31:32) The “Third-Life Crisis” of the Knowledge Worker(34:02) Why Nobody’s Talking Enough About Re-skilling(36:17) Vibe Coding and L&D Reimagined with AI(37:26) The Accidental On-Ramp to Using Workleap AI(39:22) Weekly Rituals and Cross-Functional Learning Moments(41:40) The Limits of Our Imagination in Predicting the Future of Work(43:13) How Workleap Dogfoods Its Own AI Tools(44:50) Data as the Engine: The Power of Connected People Analytics(47:25) Future Vision: Org Charts with Real-Time Engagement & Performance Insights(48:48) Innovation From the Ground Up: HR Leading a Company-Wide Sprint(51:35) Why Canada Might Be Leading the Way in Future of Work Innovation---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn

Alex Buder Shapiro, Chief People Officer at Jasper, is leading the charge in rethinking organizational design amid the AI revolution. She discusses how AI is transforming early-career roles and the urgent need for HR teams to adapt through experimentation and innovative workflows. Alex reveals the importance of real-time learning and reskilling at scale, while provoking thoughts on HR’s evolving leadership role. From prototyping with AI to the complexities of organizational structures, this episode dives deep into the future of work and the unique challenges ahead.

Eliza Jackson, Chief People and Administrative Officer at ButcherBox, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how operational excellence can protect and scale company culture, how her team built a "work in service of" mindset, and how ButcherBox is using AI agents to unlock capacity—not replace people.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:59) Eliza’s Career Journey: From Finance to Education to ButcherBox(08:04) What ButcherBox Does & Its B Corp Mission(09:23) Why Ops Isn’t Just for Efficiency—It’s for Culture(11:44) How Eliza Assessed ButcherBox’s Ops When She Joined(13:52) Creating the Business Operations Team & Their Embedded Model(16:30) Eliza’s Nerdy Toolkit: Time & Task Management(17:58) People Ops & Biz Ops Tech Stack at ButcherBox(21:09) Managing Hybrid Work: Boston-Based Flexibility(23:47) Protecting Company DNA & Building Connection in a Hybrid World(26:48) Evolving ButcherBox’s Return-to-Office Strategy(29:35) Culture is the Differentiator in a Post-COVID Workplace(33:31) What Great Leadership Looks Like in a Talent Factory(35:46) The Shift in Leadership Mindsets Since COVID(38:04) Belonging, AI, and the Performance Push: Can They Coexist?(39:28) ButcherBox’s AI Task Force: Building Capacity with Agents(41:50) Example: AI Copy & Design Agents That Talk to Each Other(44:39) Why an AI Coach Can Sometimes Be Better Than a Manager(45:57) AI Adoption at ButcherBox: What’s Sticking & What’s Scaling(47:29) The CPO of the Future: People + Digital, Inspired by Moderna(50:41) Why HR Should Lead AI Transformation, Not Just IT(52:01) Rapid Fire: Advice, Superpowers & What to Steal from Slalom(55:27) BetterUp & the Human Condition at Work(55:40) One-Word Close: Inflection Point, Moderna, Baby---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn

In this discussion, Joris Luijke, CEO of Pyn, and Jessica Zwaan, author of 'Built for People', delve into the art of employee journey mapping. They emphasize designing for impactful moments rather than just processes, explaining why many employee experiences fail. The conversation covers the balance of prioritizing key moments, the common pitfalls in journey mapping, and the importance of creativity in crafting experiences. They advocate for a holistic view of the employee journey, suggesting effective collaboration across departments to enhance satisfaction and engagement.

Thomas Forstner, VP of People and Talent at Juro, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about building an AI-native company, why HR should own workflows not just the workforce, and how people teams must evolve from playbook followers to visionary architects of the modern org.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Get your free 30-day Synthesia account.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (06:32) Thomas’ origin story: from psychology to global work experiences(09:52) How he ended up at Juro and grew with the company(11:03) What Juro does and how it’s changing legal and HR workflows(13:05) The state of HR today and the growing gap in AI adoption(14:33) Why giving ChatGPT access will soon be like giving email(16:22) The emerging core AI tech stack every team needs(18:27) How Juro is enabling AI experimentation across teams(20:33) Their “how to AI” rituals, lab reports, and internal AI philosophy(23:40) Why making their AI principles public is a competitive advantage(25:15) Why IT now reports to People at Juro: owning the workflows(26:57) What “WorkTech” means and the rise of the Chief Work Officer(29:12) How AI tools reshaped Stephen’s view on HR and product(32:18) HR as the company OS: When it’s good, everything flows(34:23) Parallel thinking: Sales teams, onboarding, and internal design(37:02) Should you rebuild your HR tech stack? Custom vs. off-the-shelf(39:47) The power of documentation and training AI agents(41:13) Building internal tools with low/no-code: Just try things(43:30) Automating personalized rejection emails with custom GPTs(44:47) Is PeopleOps as a Product evolving into something new?(47:48) People leaders as shape shifters, AI engineers, and CSMs(50:09) Stop chasing playbooks—start building your own operating model(51:17) Setting a clear vision: Juro’s “Company OS” and annual rewrites(54:41) Rapid fire questions: advice, favorite resources, and dream strategies(58:42) What Thomas would steal from Dropbox---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn

Helen Russell, Chief People Officer at HubSpot, dives into fostering an AI-first culture and the pressing importance of belonging in the workplace. She discusses how HR leaders can balance urgency with a human-centered approach, especially during times of change. The conversation highlights the evolution of HubSpot’s talent strategy and the critical role trust plays in employee engagement. Russell also shares insights on integrating AI tools to enhance connection and productivity, ensuring that culture remains a priority in a tech-driven environment.

Lenke Taylor joined us on The Modern People Leader to talk about her path from engineering to HR, and what it means to be a true business partner. We discussed how HR can lead alongside CEOs and CFOs, building high-impact teams, and how working in Europe has shaped her leadership approach.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (04:37) Lenke’s career journey: From chemical engineer to people leader(10:42) What is Personio and how Lenke ended up there(12:17) What business partnering really means in HR(14:37) How AI is changing the way we work(19:05) HR’s evolving role in an AI-transformed workplace(22:46) The CEO–CFO–CPO trio: Strategic collaboration in practice(27:45) Stage-specific HR: Lessons from Google, BuzzFeed, and Personio(30:46) Hiring for growth-stage companies vs. enterprise environments(33:29) Which HR practices are universal, and which should be tailored(36:17) The perks of being in HR at an HR tech company(38:24) Working in Europe vs. the US: Major leadership and HR differences(44:20) Cultural contrasts between US and European leadership styles(47:33) What’s top of mind for HR leaders in Europe today(48:54) Rapid-fire questions: Advice, superpower nickname, strategy to steal(52:06) Guest recommendation: Katarina Berg (CHRO at On, formerly Spotify)(53:04) One-word close: Business is people strategy---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn

Join Danny Guillory, Chief People Officer at Glassdoor, Lisa Anne Logan, former Chief of Staff at Asana, and Dashini Jeyathurai, Head of Talent Development at Gusto, as they delve into the shifting landscape of performance expectations. They discuss fragmented burnout across various roles and the shared responsibility of individuals and companies in addressing it. The trio explores reimagining roles using AI, the transition from traditional org charts to dynamic work charts, and insights on maintaining psychological safety in high-performance environments.

Jessica Zwaan joined us again to unpack the metrics that actually matter in HR today. We talked about the three buckets of metrics every People Leader should use, why the RANS test is a better way to measure engagement, and the one metric to rule them all (ELTV:CAC). ---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (04:33) Metrics and Visualization: Where People Analytics Stands Today(05:41) Why HR Has Talked About Analytics for Years But Still Struggles(08:12) The Double-Edged Sword of AI in People Analytics(10:15) LLMs Are Great at Cleanup, Not Complex Analysis(12:04) What Good People Analytics Looks Like in Practice(13:44) Health, Operational, and Success Metrics Explained(16:28) Vanity Metrics HR Teams Should Avoid(18:12) The Case Against ENPS (Engagement Net Promoter Score)(21:05) Why You Can—and Should—Measure the “Unmeasurable”(24:15) The First Step in Building a Metrics-Led HR Culture(27:23) Why Manual Data Work is Still Essential(29:24) The Importance of Defining Critical Numbers(32:05) A Real Example: Visualizing Comp Data to Drive Strategy(34:12) Jessica’s Beef with Pie Charts (and Why You Should Care)(37:29) Favorite Metrics: Interview-to-Performance Correlation & RANS Test(42:45) Why ELTV to CAC Payback Should Be HR’s North Star Metric(47:43) Commercial Effectiveness Through People Metrics(48:13) Tech Stack Tips for Getting Started with HR Data---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Frieda Möcker, Head of People & Culture at Sastrify, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about the first steps she took to treat HR more like a product, how her team does sprint planning, and why she prefers “NCTs” over OKRs.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- Timestamps:(11:05) What’s Your Story? – Frieda’s path from business grad to People leader(17:30) Lessons in Career – Finding purpose, startups, and self-awareness(18:47) About Sastrify – SaaS management, shadow IT, and compliance(20:40) Why PeopleOps as a Product Resonated – Discovering the framework(23:03) Reading Jessica’s Blog – The gym moment that changed everything(25:15) Reaching Out to Jessica – Building connections through shared philosophy(26:23) Putting Theory into Practice – Mapping employee journeys, launching sprints(29:17) Our 3 Guiding Principles – Maximize impact, think like a scientist, build through others(31:33) Employee Research – Interviews, pulse checks, and surfacing insights(33:26) Making It Your Own – Culture fit and adapting frameworks(34:05) Maximizing to Mission – How priorities ladder up to company goals(38:27) Ruthless Prioritization – Why some good ideas wait in the backlog(39:35) Team Structure – A three-person generalist People team(41:33) Visualization in Practice – Miro, Asana, Slack, and the “SAN Stack”(42:58) Sprint Planning – Lifecycle mapping, roles, and task ownership(47:58) What Is ScrumBan? – Combining kanban boards and sprint logic(50:20) Blocking & Saying No – How visualizing work helps stakeholders understand tradeoffs---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.