Valley of Depth

Scott Sanders, a former Marine officer turned defense-tech exec and Forterra Chief Growth Officer, talks autonomy for ground systems and getting real capability to operators. He covers the gap between demos and deployed systems, investor misconceptions about defense timelines, Forterra’s mesh networking and autonomy-as-a-service approach, and pragmatic paths to scale hardware and software at the tactical edge.

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Mark Boggett, CEO of Seraphim Space, to break down one of the biggest questions in the industry right now: are we still early in the space economy, or has the easy money already been made? Mark has built one of the first dedicated space-focused venture firms, before the category became institutional. We discuss how the market has evolved from uncertain capital availability to a more mature ecosystem where large-scale funding is now expected and why that shift is unlocking a new phase of growth. We cover: Why the space economy is still in its early innings of value creation How capital availability has transformed space investing over the last decade Seraphim’s strategy and why they avoid launch, space travel, and lunar markets The rise of European defense demand and the emergence of “neo-primes” How space companies are becoming real, profitable businesses Where the market may be overbuilt vs. underinvested Why vertically integrated constellations remain the core opportunity What the next phase of the space economy looks like   • Chapters • 00:00 – Intro 00:38 – What current moment are we in in the space economy? 01:33 – Mark's history with the space industry and the changes he's seen 02:50 – What prompted Mark to start taking bets on the space industry? 07:52 – Early pushback in space investing 10:27 – How do you convince investors to invest in space companies if the biggest company (SpaceX) is still not public? 13:27 – Seraphim's strategy for their funds 21:23 – Seraphim's competitive moat 24:52 – Where does Seraphim go from a founder's focused approach to a more guided one? 30:31 – IC EYE 36:34 – Space investment trends that Mark sees in Europe 41:54 – US vs Europe future investments 45:50 – Understanding American vs European aerospace company valuations 47:56 – Where are we currently overbuilt? 54:34 – Why doesn't Seraphim invest in the Moon and Mars and will this change? 01:00:00 – What Mark does for fun   • Show notes • Seraphim’s website — https://seraphim.vc/ Seraphim’s socials — https://x.com/seraphim_space Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /   https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/   • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

Brian Barritt, cofounder and CTO of Aalyria and former Google connectivity lead, talks about Spacetime (software orchestration for moving networks) and Tightbeam (high-rate laser communications). He describes coordinating satellites, aircraft, drones and ground systems. Topics include 100 Gbps atmospheric laser links, routing across moving infrastructure, interoperability and open APIs, and scaling optical ground stations.

David Tearse, co-founder and CEO of Karman Industries and an engineer-turned-founder, explains how Heat Processing Units rethink cooling for hyperscale data centers. He talks about why thermal management is becoming a bottleneck, how CO2 HPUs replace chillers to unlock more compute, aerospace-grade reliability, regulatory and national security angles, and where this tech could extend beyond data centers.

Jack Kuhr, Research Director at Payload Pro and aerospace finance modeler of SpaceX and Starlink, joins to map SpaceX’s transformation into a vertically integrated platform. He discusses Starlink overtaking launch, terminal and regulatory constraints, international and aviation/maritime growth, Starlink Lite vs ISPs, Starship’s potential to reshape economics, and the strategic link between SpaceX, xAI, and Tesla.

John Serafini, CEO of Hawkeye 360, leads a company that maps radio-frequency emissions from space to reveal human activity. The conversation covers RF-listening satellites in three-satellite clusters, how RF ties to intent, detecting dark vessels and GPS jamming, fingerprinting emitters over time, and the data and software that form Hawkeye 360’s competitive edge.

In this lively discussion, Philip Johnston, CEO and founder of Starcloud, discusses the revolutionary idea of space-based data centers. He highlights how energy and water limitations on Earth are driving the need for off-planet compute solutions. Philip reveals the outcomes of running an NVIDIA H100 in orbit and dives into the economics of launching GPUs into space. He also addresses national security concerns regarding who will control future compute capacities, positioning Starcloud as a leader in this burgeoning field.

As more nations realize that space is no longer just a scientific domain but a foundation of economic power and national security, a new question is emerging: who will actually build the infrastructure that underpins it? Orbitworks believes the answer lies in sovereign capability: designed locally, manufactured locally, and operated with speed and control.Founded by Hamdullah Mohib, a former national security advisor and diplomat who spent years operating at the highest levels of geopolitics, Orbitworks sits at an unusual intersection of statecraft and space manufacturing. Based in Abu Dhabi, the company is building one of the region’s first commercial satellite manufacturing facilities and developing Altair, a native constellation designed to move beyond raw imagery and toward information-driven services for both sovereign and commercial customers.We discuss:How Orbitworks is building a commercial satellite industry from scratch in the UAEThe strategic logic behind flexible architectures over fixed hardwareHow the Middle East is positioning itself as a serious node in the global space economyWhat it takes to build talent, supply chains, and culture in a brand-new space ecosystem • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:59 - Hamdullah's journey from government and geopolitics to space05:11 - What is Orbitworks?06:25 - Partnerships with Orbitworks08:43 - A joint venture09:40 - Partnering with Loft Orbital17:09 - Differences that founders experience in the Middle East21:26 - Altair constellation23:29 - Dual use commercial and government26:34 - Building a facility in KEZAD33:02 - Cultivating and nurturing talent34:30 - How the Middle East is thinking about space40:21 - Priorities of sovereign wealth funds42:33 - Lessons in leadership47:08 - Fundraising plans/goals48:47 - Hamdullah's vision for space in the Middle East50:46 - What excites Hamdullah the most about the space industry? • Show notes •Orbitwork’s website —https://www.orbitworks.space/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Marc Berte, CEO of Overview Energy, is revolutionizing power generation with his expertise in aerospace and energy engineering. He discusses why space-based solar power is finally a feasible option, addressing rising energy demands and aging grid infrastructure. Marc explains the unique design of Overview's satellites that transmit energy via laser, which is safer than sunlight. He outlines the economic strategy to serve high-demand markets first and anticipates exciting applications from military bases to data centers.

In this engaging conversation, Kerry Wisnosky, CEO of Quantum Space and aerospace veteran, discusses the future of space maneuverability. He unveils the Ranger spacecraft, designed to operate for 15 years and shift orbits seamlessly. Wisnosky emphasizes the shift from disposable to reusable space assets, highlighting the strategic importance of in-orbit refueling. He also explores how Ranger could enhance missile defense and the significance of multimode propulsion as a game changer. With the growing demand for space infrastructure, Quantum is well-positioned to lead this transformation.