Overtired

Brett and Christina start talking about one political party’s fundraising scam but quickly turn to complaining about the other party’s email shenanigans. Because Overtired is nothing if not fair and balanced. Ok, it’s actually a lot of things other than that. Really none of that. Imbalance kind of drives the show… plus data leaks and lost Apple devices. Sponsor Helix: Get the best sleep of your life on a Helix mattress. Helix is offering Overtired listeners up to $200 off all mattress orders AND two free pillows. Just go to helixsleep.com/overtired. Show Links The Trump fundraising scam Apple Find My News Down Etc. Have I Been Pwned? Microsoft Buys Corp.com So Bad Guys Can’t – Krebs on Security Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Christina Christina: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]You are listening to over tired. I’m Christina Warren. He’s Brett Terpstra, Brett, how are you? [00:00:11] Brett: [00:00:11] I am so like right before we started this podcast, like this exact recording, I was buried in like building a whole new website for a bunch from scratch. And as an ADHD person who gets hyper-focused, it’s really hard for me to let go yeah. To switch tracks. So I’m working on that right now. [00:00:37] Christina: [00:00:37] Okay. All right. I appreciate that. And, and, and, um, and we’ll, we’ll, we’ll talk about some of your code stuff a little bit later, unless, um, I mean, we could skip breaths, um, mental health corner and go straight to Brett’s coding corner, if that would help you transition. But I don’t know. [00:00:53] Brett: [00:00:53] We’ll make that, uh, we’ll, we’ll see where we’re at at the 45 minute Mark. And if we want to dig into. [00:01:00] Like the inner workings of Brett’s code brain at that point. That’s fine. But for right now, we’ll stick with our kind of the usual topics. [00:01:07] Christina: [00:01:07] Yeah, that sounds good. So mental health corner update. [00:01:12] Brett: [00:01:12] Yeah. How are you? [00:01:13]Christina: [00:01:13] I’m okay. I’ve been, I don’t know this, the whole, this whole thing is just getting to me. It’s been kind of a shitty week to be honest, but but I’m okay. I did volunteer yesterday again, Adam, the, uh, place [00:01:26] Brett: [00:01:26] a nation clinic. [00:01:27] Christina: [00:01:27] Yeah. And that was, that was really cool. [00:01:29]We gave 8,000 doses and I made the mistake of signing up for an afternoon shift and ended up having to stay about an hour and a half after. Should have been there because the line for people to get in, and some people were waiting in line for two hours outside to get inside. And traffic apparently was really bad getting down to the stadium because there was also a Mariners game happening. [00:01:53] So the Mariners are the Seattle baseball team and where the VAX clinic is happening is it’s taking place at the [00:02:00] larger lumen field, which is the, where the Seahawks, the football team play. And so it’s not actually, like it’s an outdoor stadium, so they’re not doing the vaccinations outside, but there’s like a theater kind of area that’s attached to the stadium. [00:02:12] That’s big. And like they have, college graduations and stuff like that there. And so that is where people are. Having the, that the spreader doing the vaccination stuff. And but they’re right across the street from one another. So like the football stadium and the baseball stadium are literally across the street from one another. [00:02:29] So when you have, were, they got 8,000 doses that they were giving out throughout the day. So you had that many people coming in and then the baseball game. And then I don’t know if there was some sort of other holdup, but traffic was apparently really, really bad. So things were sort of backed up and then the line to get in, it was like some people, like the very last people that we were helping, it was like, people were, had been in line for two hours, which is crazy, but also, [00:02:57] Brett: [00:02:57] bad as voting. [00:02:58]Christina: [00:02:58] Yeah, but [00:03:00] honestly, I don’t want to say more important, but I’m going to say more important. [00:03:04]Brett: [00:03:04] Yeah, I guess you could argue that either way, [00:03:08] Christina: [00:03:08] either way. I think you could go that way. I think that the reason I will say more important is because it’s 16 and up and you have to be 18 to vote. And, and also there’s not a residency requirement, you know what I mean? Like vaccination is for everybody. I don’t know. Um, but, but I could see, I would be open to the other argument as well. [00:03:29] I’m not like committed to it so yeah, that was cool. It was, it was nice. I was just doing data entry stuff. So I would sit with, you know, the person who’s giving this shot and enter in all the information. And that was nice, to be able to kind of help. It was nice to see so many people out there because I’ve been worried. [00:03:45] You know, we talked before about. Like you were able to get your appointment relatively quickly, which was great. But some people in some places have been having an easier time getting appointments. Not because the supply is better, but because people are like [00:04:00] not wanting to get vaccinated, which is concerning. [00:04:03]So it’s good, to have that much of a line for that many doses. Um, how, uh, how, how are things with you? Like mental health wise? Have you been like any like manic or depressive spirals? [00:04:15] Brett: [00:04:15] like just stable that two and a half milligrams, which in my dosage was I, my doctor was right. I kind of scoffed at the idea that two and a half milligrams of anything could really matter, but she, she nailed it. [00:04:31] Christina: [00:04:31] Hell. Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s really, really good. Any, uh, anything on the job update? [00:04:36] Brett: [00:04:36] No, I just checked in with them today. It’s still going through like all of the internal processing and I’ll admit I’m a little nervous. I live in an independent world where things are a little more agile and uh, yeah, if something takes a couple of weeks, I start to think something’s going on. [00:04:55] Christina: [00:04:55] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, living in like kind of a corporate world, I know how slow stuff can be, but I [00:05:00] also, that doesn’t change. It doesn’t make it any better. Like I’m not somehow more comfortable at like, I somehow don’t feel like, Oh, this is great. You know, like, or everything’s okay. Because of, um, how long somebody could take, you know what I mean? [00:05:14]Brett: [00:05:14] Did you know, object impermanence is uh, listed as both for autism and ADHD, a symptom. This is the, okay. So the reason I went down this sudden tangent is the idea like when you’re traveling, do you have to like repeatedly check to make sure the tickets in your bag or open your phone and make sure you have it, like in the wallet? No, I do once I’ve checked once or twice, I can convince myself, I don’t need to check anymore, but, uh, but I was talking with Al and we have that kind of in common, the nagging once you can’t see something, the need to find it and make sure it’s actually there, which also ties into how I [00:06:00] lose shit all the time. [00:06:01] Christina: [00:06:01] Totally. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t really have that. Although there are, but I know plenty of people who it’s interesting. I feel like that I can see that being a symptom of both. For, for both of those, like ADHD, autism, but also OCD and stuff. But I know people who I would consider very neuro-typical who have that too. [00:06:21] Um, I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t have that. Um, it is one of those things. Like I make sure that I check before I leave, but I, but I lose shit all the time. Like sunglasses and me are I’m famous for losing sunglasses and I’m not talking about cheap sunglasses. Like I’m talking about like expensive, like Ray-Bans, and then I’m very mad at myself. [00:06:41] I had like a really, really good streak with a pair of Ray-Bans where I had them for like three years. No, not three years, like two and a half years, almost three years. And then I lost them. And after that, like I was going [00:07:00] through significant numbers of pears. I’ve most recently lost my Apple watch and I don’t know where it is. [00:07:05] Yeah. And, and it’s somewhere in my house. I don’t know. I remember doing something with the band and I thought that I put it on its charger and I didn’t, and I couldn’t find it yesterday. And this is because I don’t wear my watch every day now. And I have another one. And if I need to, you know, if I can’t find it or whatever, but it’s, it’s still like that one’s frustrating to me. [00:07:24] So I don’t have probably, but it’s, it’s been so long since I realized I lost it, that [00:07:31] Brett: [00:07:31] have a charge to [00:07:32] Christina: [00:07:32] it doesn’t have a charge. Exactly. So, so it’d be worthless. Um, this is the problem, but yeah, I don’t have that object in permanence thing. Although I probably should ingratiate that in myself for things like sunglasses and like earphones, I don’t know that I should have it, but I don’t like, usually. [00:07:49] Like my passport and stuff like that. Like I know that that’s in my person. The thing that I have sometimes is that somebody will hand me like a piece of paper and I’ll know it’s important and I’ll put it away and then I’ll [00:08:00] suddenly not be able to find it. And usually it’s okay. But there are times where I’m like, what did I just do with that? [00:08:07] Brett: [00:08:07] I don’t lose stuff that I use frequently. Like I, I have tiles on my keys and in my wallet, I’ve never had to ring them. Like I always know. Where my sunglasses, my keys, my wallet, stuff that I use more than once a week. I always know exactly where I left it. Anything beyond that, like trying to find my, my taxes, like all the forms from independent contractor stuff, they came in, I put them somewhere. [00:08:37] I thought these were important. I’ll put them somewhere. I’ll remember. I don’t know. I had to ask for more. Right. I had to ask people to like resend them because they’re around here somewhere, but. [00:08:48] Christina: [00:08:48] Yeah. I mean, I, I’m kind of the opposite in, in, in, in a weird way. Like it’s the stuff that I use frequently that I will have to figure out where it is. And then it’s the other stuff that I will usually, if I’m putting it in a safe place, [00:09:00] like I’m committing it to memory. Although there are some things where I’m like, I know where it was, but I don’t mind not know where that thing is. [00:09:06] Right. Like there there’s like a folio that I have that has my social security card, my birth certificate and, and, um, things like that. But I don’t know where that is at the moment. Um, for tax stuff, I try to just have everybody give it to me digitally [00:09:21]Brett: [00:09:21] Before I pull off a perfect segue. Do you want to, you want to hear a three-year-old review of this podcast, [00:09:28] Christina: [00:09:28] Yes, I do. [00:09:28] Brett: [00:09:28] a dramatization. This is from Zuora early and, and I, I, I don’t, I read our reviews so infrequently that this went three years before I noticed it, but it’s wheelie says it’s not that there’s anything quote, unquote, wrong with this podcast. [00:09:46] Think the couple sounds like nice people they’re unbelievably boring to listen to over tired really is the perfect title because it’s like they haven’t slept in or in a dream half-awake state just rambling on about nothing in particular. I [00:10:00] want to give it one star because I got absolutely nothing of value out of this podcast. [00:10:04] Nothing even vaguely entertaining, but I give them two stars for at least trying. I mean, people who try are worth and then it just ends. [00:10:13]Christina: [00:10:13] wow. Oh my God. I feel so seen. [00:10:17] Brett: [00:10:17] Yeah. So like everyone listening, I don’t care if it’s a one-star review, just write something intriguing. Cause honestly it’s, it’s entertaining. [00:10:29]Christina: [00:10:29] That was such a good roast. [00:10:32] Brett: [00:10:32] Yeah. I mean, I, I’m not going to argue. [00:10:35] Christina: [00:10:35] No, I’m not even, [00:10:36] Brett: [00:10:36] We’re tired. [00:10:37] Christina: [00:10:37] I’m not even remotely mad. Like that was really good. [00:10:40]Brett: [00:10:40] Yeah. I didn’t take it personally. And I wasn’t sure if it was because it was so old, I didn’t care anymore. Or if just honestly, You know, it’s okay. It’s okay. You can hate something. I mean, honestly, to me, if you dislike something that much, you just don’t listen to it again, you don’t go leave a shitty review, but [00:11:00] you know, [00:11:00] Christina: [00:11:00] mean, [00:11:00] Brett: [00:11:00] a place for that. [00:11:01] Christina: [00:11:01] I don’t know. Like I would be, I think the reason I’m not mad at that and like, it genuinely doesn’t bother me. It kind of tickles me is because like, There’s some truth in that, like, that’s not a bad review. Like I’m, I’m fairly self-aware and I’m like, yeah, that doesn’t really hurt me too much because there’s some truth in that the ones that would get that get me are the ones that are either trying really hard to be mean. [00:11:25] And that one really wasn’t like, you know, there are ones that can be really mean about talking about what your voice sounds like or what your face is or this or that. You know what I mean? Like that’s the [00:11:36] Brett: [00:11:36] that make it super personal. Yeah. [00:11:38] Christina: [00:11:38] yeah. But like, there was nothing personal in that and it wasn’t, um, bad. Like I’m, I’m not, I’m not mad at it. [00:11:46] Like I feel sufficiently called out and I’m like, yeah, you know what? We’re not for everybody. And that’s okay. There are, there are people who continue to listen to us week after week, and we appreciate you and who don’t feel that way, but [00:12:00] I’m not going to argue with people who do find that you do have that opinion, like Marshall and thank you for listening and writing a review, honestly. [00:12:08] Brett: [00:12:08] We, uh, we have that’s the most recent review we have. No one has, no one has reviewed this show since we like took a year off and came back. [00:12:16] Christina: [00:12:16] okay. So that is the one that is the one thing before we go into our, what would have been a perfect segue, uh, ads break thing, um, that I will call out as a request for our listeners, please leave a review. It doesn’t have to be five star Wars. It doesn’t have to be one-star. Although those are our two favorites, it can be two, it can be three, it can be four, whatever, but please leave a review. [00:12:37] And as long as it doesn’t get super personal, where, you know, you’re kind of like, ouch, that hurts my feelings. And even if you want to do that, I’m going to be honest. I will take it, but like, let’s get a review that’s more recent than three years. Cause that’s all I would really like, just so people know, Hey, this is still going and there are solicitors. [00:12:55] We promise. Sorry. I was just really hot on the mic there. Um, I felt that, [00:13:00] sorry. Um, but you know, there, there are still listeners, please, please let us, uh, Let people know. [00:13:08] Brett: [00:13:08] I know for a fact, we have listeners, our sponsors tell us that we have pretty strong ad sales, so there must be people listening and we must be selling the shit out of some stuff. [00:13:20]Christina: [00:13:20] Yeah. Which is great. So we appreciate you. [00:13:23] Brett: [00:13:23] We’re just pros at this. Um, on my last episode of systematic, I had Aaron Mankey, uh, of lower on and like, his story is crazy because like he, he was publishing his first episode of Laura kind of as like a newsletter thing. Hey, here’s a free story. If you subscribe to my newsletter. I’ll give you five more and it just immediately started gaining traction. [00:13:50] And now he has millions of listeners and he can do, can you do ad sales for a whole year in one week? And it, yeah, crazy success story. [00:14:00] I I’m really, really impressed and proud of Aaron. Cause I knew him back when he was just like a, a freelancer designer, just kind of like throwing things against the wall to see what stuck. [00:14:13] He never expected podcasts and could be the thing anyway. So the segue I had in mind was, uh, Apple find my, uh, in reference to your watch, the, see, like, if I had done this right then would have been just, Hmm. But, uh, Apple just released an update to find my, which is a weird name. Uh, I get, I get why it doesn’t have an article, but, um, like find my, that allows third parties to start, um, making their products find-able uh, so you could go into find my, instead of just your Apple devices, you could have, I can’t remember who the first people signing on were, um, Let me look that up real quick while we’re talking, but yeah, it’s [00:15:00] kinda, it’s kinda cool because I’m used to like buying tiles and, uh, things like, things like that that will ring and find my random, uh, random things, but I can’t afford to put a title on everything. [00:15:14] So if everything just came with fine, my built-in. [00:15:17]Christina: [00:15:17] Yeah, no, I would love that. Um, but yeah, it’s interesting. Cause they’re clearly releasing this because they’re going to be coming out with air tags. And which is that’s the rumored name? Um, I, I’m not sure what it’s actually going to be called, but they’re going to become out with their tile compete. And, uh, presumably this will be so that you can attach it to those things or to your point, they might be licensing it to other companies. [00:15:42] You’re able to build it into their products, which would be even better. [00:15:44] Brett: [00:15:44] The first, the first people, the first companies that are making use of this are then move with their S3. And x-ray e-bikes Belkin sound, form freedom, true wireless earbuds. And [00:16:00] Chipolo one spot item finder. I don’t know what trip polo one has, but e-bikes and earbuds. That makes sense. Are you a camper? Put a tag on your earbuds, so that’s super cool. [00:16:12]Christina: [00:16:12] Yeah. I mean, I think that this is the sort of thing where if you’re able to, you know, build in. Whatever it is that they’ve built into find my, you know, within, within I’m presuming it’s it’s within like the radio stack. Um, and, uh, and had that show up in the app. Like, that’s really awesome. Obviously, they’re going to be some physical items that you can’t do that with, or that in theory, you shouldn’t do that with, you know, like, um, an umbrella or a, those are things I also lose all the time, umbrellas or sunglasses or [00:16:40] Brett: [00:16:40] I don’t even own an umbrella. [00:16:43] Christina: [00:16:43] Well, [00:16:44] Brett: [00:16:44] I don’t have hair to worry about. I just go out in the rain [00:16:48] Christina: [00:16:48] Yeah. I mean, umbrellas, aren’t super common in Seattle, even though it rains, you’re a lot, the, the locals tend to look down on umbrella caring folks, but sometimes like, if it’s really coming down, like you need it, uh, in New [00:17:00] York. [00:17:00] Brett: [00:17:00] clear light head wrap things that old ladies wear to protect their perms. [00:17:05] Christina: [00:17:05] Yeah. The issue with that is like, again, like if it’s coming down really hard, like that’s not gonna work. Um, that’s less of an issue here too. I mean, people drive more, but like New York city, for instance, like. You need an umbrella. Like there’s no way that you can survive in New York city without an umbrella because no one drives. [00:17:24] So if you’re like, you can wait for maybe the brain to let up some, but sometimes it’s just going to be coming down out there. Also the snow, like is at times bad enough that like, you know, you, you need an umbrella for the snow. So it’s less of an issue in Seattle. Um, and, and whatnot. But, um, yeah. Uh, but like I did actually have a smart umbrella that some company had sent me that had an app that would let you like track, you know, where it was, but it added an enormous amount of money to the umbrella itself. [00:17:56] And then I still lost the umbrella. So [00:18:00] the whole thing was, was a fail, but I am happy that more companies are doing this and that hopefully I will be able to have a better sense of where stuff is. I would like. This would be a nice feature for fine. Might’ve have, if my battery is under like 20% and my device hasn’t been charged, I would like to get an alert so that I can locate the device and charge it. [00:18:26] Like that would be useful for my phone. Like if, because they can tell if your phone’s on your restaurant, like they know that my phone, but if my, um, not my phone, like my watch, they know if your washer’s on your restaurant, they know that if my watch is on my wrist is not in my wrist and the battery is under 20% alert me because maybe at someplace, like not on my charger and I can find out where it was. [00:18:48] I don’t know. [00:18:49]Brett: [00:18:49] No it’s bugging me right now. [00:18:51] Christina: [00:18:51] What’s that? [00:18:52] Brett: [00:18:52] I said that fine. My doesn’t have an article. That’s entirely grammatically incorrect. I should’ve said like direct [00:19:00] object or subject. [00:19:02] Christina: [00:19:02] Right. I was going to say, cause it has the article. [00:19:03] Brett: [00:19:03] Yeah, I, I, I’m just, I’m sitting here shaking my head thinking I should edit that, but you know what, [00:19:10] Christina: [00:19:10] Well, you’ve just edited it. [00:19:11] Brett: [00:19:11] I want to give people fodder for their two star reviews. [00:19:15] Christina: [00:19:15] But also you just corrected it. So it’s fine. [00:19:18] Brett: [00:19:18] I’d like to issue a public correction. My mom was an English teacher I should know better. Uh, so I do, I don’t have a perfect segue, but I feel like we’re at a good point to do an ad read. [00:19:32] Christina: [00:19:32] I agree. [00:19:33] Sponsor: HelixBrett: [00:19:33] And so I’m, I have the helix mattress between the two of us. So I’m the one who gets to talk about it. And, uh, [00:19:41] Christina: [00:19:41] I’m very jealous. [00:19:43] Brett: [00:19:43] you should be because I’ve been sleeping on it for over six months now. [00:19:47] And I have never been happier with a mattress. It’s kind of like when I got my first Dyson stick and I realized I could have an emotional attachment to a vacuum cleaner it’s like that, but for a mattress. [00:20:00] So they have this two minute quiz that asks important questions. Like what positions you sleep in and how much support you need. [00:20:07] And when you finish it, they pair you with a mattress that fits those specific needs. And a one size fits all approach would never work if you want perfect sleep. So I love that they have such a variety of mattresses to pretty fit pretty much every need. They have soft, medium and firm mattresses, mattresses for cooling you down. [00:20:26] If you sleep hot and even a helix plus mattress for plus size folks, uh, like I sleep on my side and I like medium firmness. And after a few months of sleeping on the midnight mattress, they paired me with, I can say for absolutely certain, they got it right. You can head to helix sleep.com/over tired and take the quiz yourself. [00:20:46] See what you get. One of my favorite things about this mattress is how cool it stays. My previous mattress was another brand that comes in a box and I had to add a gel cooling topper to it, just to stop sweating at night. [00:21:00] My helix mattress stays cool all night, no tossing, no turning and no weird sweaty dreams. [00:21:06] You don’t have to just take my word for it. Either. He looks was awarded the number one best overall mattress pick of 2020 by GQ and wired magazine. So if you want to sleep better and be less overtired, head to helix, sleep.com/overtired and take the quiz order, the mattress that you’re matched to, and it will come right to your door, shipped for free. [00:21:27] You get to try it out for a hundred nights. Risk-free and it has a 10 year warranty. And if you don’t love it, they’ll pick it up and take it away, full refund. So if you’re ready to sleep better, head to helix sleep.com/overtired. And if you use that link, he looks as offering over tired listeners up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows. [00:21:51] That’s helix sleep.com/overtired. I really do think you’ll love it. [00:21:57] Christina: [00:21:57] That’s awesome. And I’m very jealous and I’m glad that you don’t [00:22:00] have to have it. A gel cover on your mattress anymore. Cause those are annoying to be [00:22:04] Brett: [00:22:04] They really are. They really are. Yeah, no, it stays so cool. It’s so nice. And I got a down at etcetera pillow. Have you ever had a down cetera pillow? Have you ever stayed at the Zetta in San Francisco? I stayed there. This was almost a decade ago, but it was a new hotel at the time. They just built it and the pillows amazed me. [00:22:30] Like I, I kept wanting to just go back to my hotel room and sleep just because of the pillows. So I asked when I was checking out if if those pillows were available for sale and they gave me a card for down, et cetera. And those are the pillows I’ve been buying ever since. Not a sponsor to be clear. [00:22:48] I just fucking love their pillows. If you want to spend $150 on a pillow, that’s the place to go. [00:22:54] Christina: [00:22:54] Okay. That is, that is a big investment on a pillow. However, if it lasts a long time, [00:23:00] then like it’s probably worth. [00:23:03] Brett: [00:23:03] Well, so their feather pillows and feather pillows will after, you know, a few years they’ll get flat and that will still happen. But the more like you can get different mixes of down and goose feather. So the more down you have the longer, it tends to stay fluffy, which is weird. Cause you would think that would compress more, but it’s not the case. [00:23:26] So I try to get at least a 50, 50 down and feather mix, even though that costs, you know, more down is expensive. So there was this thing, uh, where Trump and this should be a surprise to nobody, but he scammed his own supporters. By tricking them into turning their one-time donations into repeating donations and not repeating monthly. [00:23:55] Like at one point closer to the election, they actually defaulted to weekly [00:24:00] recurring. [00:24:00] Christina: [00:24:00] God, this is such a nightmare. And, and all, and obviously not obviously, um, and actually also in many cases, a violation of sec rules, because individuals are only allowed to give, uh, $2,000 to a political campaign. [00:24:17] Brett: [00:24:17] he topped that multiple times. [00:24:19] Christina: [00:24:19] Right? Well, that’s the thing. I think that’s, that’s how people found out because they were having to get refunded. [00:24:23] Um, so there are people like, but if your donation was something like, say $25, it could have been months or weeks or whatever, you know, before they figured that out and turn off the recurring and you might not get your money back. Right. Because if it’s, if it’s $25, even if it’s going weekly, you’re, you’re going to be talking about what does that, um, uh, 40 weeks before you be at two grand. [00:24:48] Brett: [00:24:48] Yeah, I don’t do math, but [00:24:50] Christina: [00:24:50] Um, so yeah, so like [00:24:54]Brett: [00:24:54] Do you want to know how much they had to refund [00:24:58] Christina: [00:24:58] uh, how, how much did [00:25:00] they have to refund? Yeah, [00:25:01]Brett: [00:25:01] million, [00:25:03]Christina: [00:25:03] it was 80 weeks. It would be 80 weeks if you gave $25 a week. Sorry. So be over a year. [00:25:08] Brett: [00:25:08] they basically took out $122 million loan interest for you, even though they paid it back. It’s still without interest. [00:25:16] Christina: [00:25:16] without interest, well, not only that, but, and again, this is my point. Like I th I think the number could be higher because. The way I read it and maybe I’m wrong on this, but the way that I read this, the reasons that they were doing the refunding would be when you go over the $2,000 limit and then you need to refund the money. [00:25:37] Right. But again, like if your donation was $25 and it’s going to be 80 weeks until you meet that threshold, I don’t know if that’s an, I don’t, I don’t know if that’s part of the refund or not. Like, I don’t know if they proactively went and every single person that signed up for a recurring donation, they turned off. [00:25:54] Cause there could be some people that did genuinely want to give on a recurring basis. Right. [00:26:00] So so, so it could be way more than $122 million. So they got tax-free or interest free. [00:26:08] Brett: [00:26:08] To me is, so you make this, you make this donation, you know, you say, I want to give $25 and then underneath it before you click, okay, there’s a box that in big letters says, and I’m reading directly from screenshots here. We need your help to draft Trump for president. Check this box. If you want Trump to run again, uncheck this box. [00:26:29] If you do not stand with Trump and then in small print underneath it, it says, make this a monthly recurring donation. So they, it clearly says next to the check box to uncheck it. If you do not stand with Trump, but the check box is actually the one that makes it a monthly recurring donation. [00:26:49] Christina: [00:26:49] Wow. How that not fraud. [00:26:52] Brett: [00:26:52] Right. W then it gets scarier. The one they sent out after that says Trump Patriot status missing as a [00:27:00] top grassroots supporter, we were surprised to see you abandoned him. This is your last chance to update your status to active. And that one, if you don’t, if you uncheck it, if you okay, if you leave it checked, it doubles your donation, whatever, whatever amount you put in, it’ll double it. [00:27:19] And then here’s the last one. The one that kills me, we need to know you. We haven’t lost you to the radical left. If you uncheck this box, we will have to tell Trump you’re a defector and sided with the Dems check this box, and we can win back the house and get Trump to run in 2024 small print, make this a monthly recurring donation. [00:27:41] They’re going to report you to Trump as a defector. If you don’t make it a monthly recurring donation. [00:27:48] Christina: [00:27:48] I mean, and, and, and some of this other stuff too, like they had, you know, um, would you like to join Trump on a social news media site? Yes. I stand with Trump. No, I prefer fake news. Like this is, [00:28:00] this is really terrible. [00:28:01] Brett: [00:28:01] The, like a pit of me of dark patterns, like when, like, this is what I think like a lot of the language in the GDPR in Europe, uh, was kind of designed to, uh, avoid exactly this kind of thing. [00:28:19] Christina: [00:28:19] No 100%. I mean, this, this is the absolute, like darkest of dark patterns. And really, and like the thing is, is that I encourage everybody. Who’s listening to the podcast. If you want to know more about this to visit the show notes, because the link that it Brett’s talking about, like, you really need to see these screenshots because it’s not just that they. [00:28:37] You know, say these things, but it’s not just a dark pattern in terms of the boxes, but these are yellow background with, you know, black text. And the way that the, the monthly donation thing is there is difficult to read by design, but it’s, it’s the yellow background thing, you know, that really kind of takes this to another level. [00:28:58] Like this is just, this is dirty. [00:29:00] Like there’s no other word for it. Like this is just dirty. This is just disgusting. And I would say that to be very clear, if any democratic candidate were doing this, I would say the exact same thing. People who do this are predatory and bad, and I don’t care what party they’re representing or what candidate they’re representing. [00:29:17] Like this is gross and disgusting. And any group that does, this is bad and should feel bad. And, and I feel like stuff like this should be violating FEC laws like this. This feels to me like a very blatant FEC violation. [00:29:31] Brett: [00:29:31] I hate it when even, even when companies, I like do things like make a subscribing to the newsletter, opt out instead of opt in, like, there’s, there’s just no reason for that. [00:29:44] Christina: [00:29:44] There’s not an answer. What it does is that if you’re more savvy, which you know, more people are becoming, but it’s also difficult to be savvy. Like you have to read every single thing when you sign up, which takes more time. Right. So I’m just now at this [00:30:00] point, I expect companies that I like to sign up for the newsletter. [00:30:04] So I have to look and see, how can I get unsubscribed? The worst thing though, is there are plenty of places where I buy something from them once I didn’t opt in to get mail, but I will continue to get it. And then I have to go through the unsubscribe process. And usually that is not a problem at this point, you know, it used to be kind of like kind of Laura, where there’s like, Oh, if you want subscribe, you just tell them that your email is still active. [00:30:28] I’m sure that there are still places that do that at least most. Um, the one good thing I would say about like, um, online shopping has become consolidated in large part by a couple of very large shopping site vendors. So like Shopify is, is the biggest. And then, you know, you have like, uh, like, like Lu commerce, which, you know, is kind of a self hosted solution. [00:30:49] Although they’re, they’re hosted versions as well. And, and like Magento and some others. The one advantage of that is that typically things like the emails and whatnot [00:31:00] are all handled through that platform, which means that if you unsubscribe, you can pretty much count on it to actually unsubscribe you. [00:31:07] It’s not, uh, you know, there are going to be some people who rolled their own shopping cart from end to end, but most places know better because that’s a gigantic pain. So, um, and so most of those third-party services have to comply with the law around email stuff, but it doesn’t make it any easier. It’s like every time you buy something, your emails is going to become inundated with stuff. [00:31:32] The thing I learned the hard way, and this is on a demo, this is on the democratic side, but, you know, I donated to some campaigns and I used my normal like email address. And they have sold that over and over and over again and given it to countless candidates and countless people. And I can’t get rid of all of it. [00:31:56] And I’m like, I don’t want these messages because they’re all [00:32:00] fundraising messages. And I’m like, I, I gave my money to who I wanted to give it to. I don’t want my entire mailbox full of, you know, um, DNC, um, like stuff and, and things from, even from progressive candidates, like, sorry, I don’t want that. Like, I, I gave this candidate money. [00:32:17] I didn’t give you money. And I didn’t give you permission to sell this to everyone else, but that’s exactly what they do. They sell it all. I mean, and I realized that my name is public and things like that, but like, this is a very clear thing where they share lists that they share donation. Listen, um, I wish I had known that earlier because if I had, then I would have used, like, I would have created a mailbox specifically for donations, um, that I would never have to look at it again. [00:32:43] Brett: [00:32:43] I get, so I use sandbox and SaneBox has this thing called the black hole where you just move messages into the black hole folder and any future messages from that center. Don’t never make it to your, even to your spam folder, they’re just [00:33:00] gone. So I have black hole, like multiple DFL domains for this exact reason. [00:33:05] The weird thing is at some point I must’ve made a donation with my ex-wife’s name because the emails that do still get through are always addressed in like all capital letters, a D D we need your help. And it’s it’s, I hate their entire, like, uh, it’s always an emergency thing. Like, it’s always, this is the last chance. [00:33:31] It feels like a hard sales tactics and it feels wrong. It feels dirty, but the DFL too, [00:33:40] Christina: [00:33:40] No totally. I mean, again, this is, uh, this is just so gross and, and I’m, I’m very happy to dunk on the Trump campaign for this, but I want to be like clear just because I would not be surprised if this came out about certain democratic candidates as well. Like, I would not be surprised if they were also, I mean, I feel like this is really blatant and this is really like peak [00:34:00] Trump tourism thing to do that. [00:34:01] Yes, [00:34:02] Brett: [00:34:02] you as a defector thing. I don’t even think most GOP candidates would stoop that low. [00:34:08] Christina: [00:34:08] no. Agreed. And I mean, and like, let’s also be clear. They’re not reporting shit. Like they’re not doing anything like th this [00:34:13] Brett: [00:34:13] Trump doesn’t give a shit. If you defend. [00:34:15] Christina: [00:34:15] course he doesn’t like, like, you know, th th th this is fear-mongering scamming stuff. Um, one of the, the news reports that I read something from it might’ve been the Washington post. [00:34:24] I can’t remember now. But they were talking about, you know, people who like there was a guy who was in hospice and gave $500, which he lived on $2,000 a month or under $2,000 a month. And, um, or maybe under a thousand dollars a month, I can’t remember now, but, but, you know, he gave to him was a whole lot of money he’s on hospice. [00:34:47] Uh, which means that like, things are not going super well because he felt so compelled to donate to Donald Trump. And then his account was overdrawn and he, you know, had to feel, he had to find out that they were withdrawing this [00:35:00] amount of money from him on a weekly basis. And he felt, you know, violated and felt like he’d been stolen from, and he was, and so people are, were, I mean, this was a thing where it is not like a small thing that people are, are, you know, getting, um, Overdraw fees and, and things like that, which add up because every time another thing is trigger, that gives you another fee and puts you in the hole that much further. [00:35:25] And it can be a real nightmare to get out of. And, and the people that this is going to hurt the most are gonna be people who are, you know, like the people you’re preying on are gonna be like your, your donors, who many of them are really committed to you, but they don’t have a lot of money. And they’re, they’re, you know, it was a sacrifice for them to give this and, and you convince them for what a reason to need to do it. [00:35:45] It’s just, it makes me really, really angry. So fuck all these people. [00:35:51] Brett: [00:35:51] No, it’s this downright discussing and it’s, uh, it’s very frustrating that. Sure they had to give refunds, but they’ll get away with it. Like there won’t be [00:36:00] any ramifications. Even their supporters will continue to support them after they stole from them. [00:36:05]Christina: [00:36:05] Yes and no, I have a feeling if you went into an overdraft because of your campaign donation, I’m going to be honest. I don’t think there’s any way, no matter who the candidate is that you would ever give them money ever again. [00:36:15] Brett: [00:36:15] I think that’s, uh, I, I, don’t maybe 50% of the time, but I think there’s a good portion of people who would still, who would be hurt by it, having it having happened, but it wouldn’t change their view on the candidate. [00:36:29] Christina: [00:36:29] I mean, maybe it wouldn’t change the view on the candidate, but I feel like you would, I don’t know. I’m, I’m just, I just think that if, if you went into an overdraft, especially if you’re someone who lived on a fixed income and you had to go through overdraft and you had to fight with your bank and you had to fight for other stuff to, you know, like cancel those things and get a refund and whatnot. [00:36:48] Cause you can’t get a refund. I’m pretty sure. I think, I think you have to able to get a refund for political contributions. Like I don’t think they can just keep the money. Um, then, um, it just might take [00:37:00] a while for it, for you to get it back or whatever. Then I don’t know. I feel like you might still like Donald Trump and you might be able to convince yourself, Oh, it wasn’t Trump who did this. [00:37:10] It was some bad people who worked for him, but I don’t think that you would ever. Give them money again, I don’t know. Maybe, maybe, maybe that’s wishful thinking, but I just, I just feel like that’s one of those things where if somebody has done something that is, or, or some organization has done something that is had a very negative impact on your financial situation, most people don’t continue to give those organizations money. [00:37:36]Brett: [00:37:36] Yeah. Yeah. I don’t claim to be able to get inside the mind of the kind of person who would donate to Trump to begin with. So I, I, I’m [00:37:45] Christina: [00:37:45] I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, and, and, but, but also to be clear, like, I don’t think that this, what I’m referring to, isn’t even really about, like, who would donate to what candidate? I just think like in general, if, because we’ve all been in those situations where, um, or not all of us, but many of [00:38:00] us have been in a situation where you’ve gone into where somebody is like screwed up and, and you start getting charged weekly or monthly or, or daily or whatever for something, and it can have like a disastrous impact on your bank account. [00:38:12] Um, I’ve been in that situation and it looked to me, it was, it was, you know, 20 years ago and I was, um, you know, a teenager and that company that did that, um, I would never in any circumstance give them money for anything ever again. [00:38:27] Brett: [00:38:27] Skype did that to me. I, I, it was long before Microsoft on Skype, so this isn’t a conflict of interest, but they were [00:38:36] Christina: [00:38:36] was, if it wasn’t, I would still say that was shitty, [00:38:38] Brett: [00:38:38] they were taking out like a hundred dollars. And I don’t remember what the deal was like. I was paying for. Uh, like premium Skype account, but then I started getting double charged and I didn’t catch it right away. [00:38:52] And like, it was, it billed like three times, so like $300 before I caught it. And I had [00:39:00] PayPal. I was like, I was doing it through a PayPal account and I had PayPal block, future payments, which then led to Skype, you know, blocking or like ending my account and getting it back, took me like a year. And I had to change my username. [00:39:20] And I had basically, I had to create a new identity to get my Skype account back. And it was a pain in the ass, but I’m still a Skype user. We’re on Skype right now. [00:39:29] Christina: [00:39:29] I mean, fair enough. So maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know. Um, did, did it put your account to overdraft? [00:39:35] Brett: [00:39:35] Um, I don’t know, probably I did not have much money then. [00:39:40]Christina: [00:39:40] Yeah, my situation and put me into overdraft, and then there were additional recurring charges that would put further things in overdraft and further things overdraft. And it was, um, it’s actually one of the weird reasons why I’m, I’m strangely loyal to bank of America because I was 16 and bank of America came through for me. [00:39:59]I don’t know. [00:40:00] But, um, yeah. Uh, [00:40:02] Brett: [00:40:02] kind of, that’s the kind of, uh, imagery Hab that bank of America needs. [00:40:07]Christina: [00:40:07] well, but it also just, I mean, I don’t know. I mean, you’re, we’re probably both, right. It’s probably a mix of things. There are probably some people who won’t, you know, do anything and they’re probably some people who are going to be like, no, actually [00:40:17] Brett: [00:40:17] seen actual interviews with people who, who got charged, got, uh, overdrafted and said they still 100% support Trump. Like I know those people [00:40:26] Christina: [00:40:26] Well, no, no. I’m just to be clear. I wasn’t saying. This would change their supportive from pups saying that this would change them giving Trump money. [00:40:34] Brett: [00:40:34] I would hope so. We would hope so for the sake of humanity. [00:40:38] Christina: [00:40:38] correct. Correct. But anyway, um, [00:40:41] Brett: [00:40:41] want to do an exploit corner? [00:40:42] Christina: [00:40:42] yeah, let’s do exploit corner security, security theater. Well, not really theater. This is actually good. Good. These are bad exploits, but this is smart ways to [00:40:50] Brett: [00:40:50] theater about security. [00:40:52] Christina: [00:40:52] There we go. [00:40:53] Brett: [00:40:53] Um, yeah, so we have multiple topics here. One of, one of the ones that kind of cracked me up was [00:41:00] this FinTech company. Uh, they were sending out emails and documentation and where, where users needed to put in a URL for their financial institution. They were just filling it in with default institution.com, which is, you know, an unregistered domain, but then a security researcher, fortunately, a white hat security researcher decided just to register the domain and then, uh, start basically it gave him access to all of these emails that were being sent to what otherwise would have been a dead end. [00:41:38] And, uh, he could, he could be a man in the middle for all kinds of stuff, all of a sudden. So the lesson there, I can. Registered many, many years ago, example.com for the exact purpose of putting in example, URLs and, and doing it safely. So if you need to put a dummy [00:42:00] URL on something, just use example.com. [00:42:03] Christina: [00:42:03] Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, I love stories like this and, and kind of hate them because in the wrong hands, they could be really, really dangerous. And like, obviously in this case, this was really good that some white hat person, you know, registered this, but there was a bigger issue with, um, Microsoft actually had to step in because one of the default things that people were registering for for years. [00:42:28] Um, so actually this was a really scary thing. Um, so this happened at almost exactly a year ago, but, uh, um, Krebs on security had originally reported in February of 2020. Um, a private citizen who is offering off the dangerous domain name Corp com and he had a starting price of 1.7 million. And so corporate being CEO, rp.com and the re the domain experts had been calling Corp com dangerous because there were like years and years of testing, um, that showed that, you know, people who would have [00:43:00] access, whoever owned, it would have access to a ton of, of, you know, passwords and email from hundreds of thousands of, of, um, Microsoft, um, windows computers, because, um, the way that Corp com like worked a lot of times was be that when you would configure certain things, For an internal network, it would be like Corp, uh, you know, uh, or like, like your, your subdomain dot Corp w would be how it would be done. [00:43:31] And that would be an internal domain name for the, um, for the internal DNS. But what happened was that if you would take that outside of the corporate environment, um, which is what it would use for active directory and windows, and, you know, it was facing the outside world Corp com as a real thing. And so if you had like, you know, like, um, my, my consulting company is like Christina Warren consulting. [00:43:56] And so if I had like Christina Warren consulting dot Corp [00:44:00] com, and that’s a real thing, and it’s no longer in the purview of like my internal network, but it’s something that’s facing the outside then that if that, that gets exposed all of my usernames and passwords presuming I had, you know, a system that way, um, could be done, um, that way. [00:44:18] And so. Like, we’ve got a link in the, in the show notes, because it’s really interesting to talk about how they’d done years and years of testing, um, to see how bad this could be. And the guy who bought it originally had owned it for 26 years and been doing nothing with it, but he basically just wanted a payday and wanted to cash out. [00:44:38] And it was really problematic that he was selling it for like starting bids at like 1.7 million, because you could think that this would be an, an amazing honeypot for, um, like black hat organizations or, you know, for, for, for people who want access to data for, for bad guys. Right. And, and that the amount of money that you could get from that would probably pale in comparison to the domain name. [00:45:00] [00:44:59] So I don’t know how much they paid, but Microsoft did end up agreeing to buy the domain, um, to keep it out of, you know, the, the hands of people who could abuse it. Um, but the whole thing, it was just really, you know, kind of, kind of crappy all around, like, you know, somebody who registers a domain name. 26 years earlier in 1994, who knows how much he paid for it and not, and not to say that, like I’m sure that the original domaining was relatively expensive to register and, and the ongoing, you know, renewal costs are, are not, it’s not as if maybe he should be asked it to give it to Microsoft for somebody else for free. [00:45:37] But 1.7 million seemed, I don’t know, pretty gross, like to set that as your starting price in any event, I have no idea how much they paid. I have a feel, I mean, I have no insight whatsoever, so I’m completely talking to my ass here. I am assuming that it was less than that. I I’m assuming that because I don’t know, uh, like that, that old Simpsons, um, [00:46:00] meme about, you know, bill Gates about, you know, buying out, um, Homer’s, uh, internet startup and all they do is they just come in and destroy everything and break his little egg is like, we didn’t get rich by Brighton. [00:46:11] A lot of checks. Like if somebody tells me there’s some truth in that. So I feel like they weren’t going to be, you know, like blackmailed into paint, billions of dollars for domain name. But, uh, I don’t know. So that’s another example of those. Be careful of those things. Use example.com, like you said, Brett, and I think Google owns, uh, what, what is it they own. [00:46:36]I can’t remember what the, uh, domain, um, Suffex is that, that they do. Yeah. They own a whole TLD or something like.dev is now an actual TLD you can buy. Cause like I owned Christina dot dab and things like [00:46:51] Brett: [00:46:51] up because I used to always do local host servers with that dev. Yeah. [00:46:55] Christina: [00:46:55] Oh, that’s what it is. It’s dot local. I believe that Google owns and is, is, is not selling. [00:47:00] [00:47:00] So, um, yeah, so yeah, that, [00:47:03] Brett: [00:47:03] mess up a lot of people. [00:47:05] Christina: [00:47:05] Yeah. Okay. So, so here we are, I’m local as a special use domain name reserved by the internet and internet engineering task force. IATF is that it may not be installed as a top-level domain and the domain name system on the internet. Um, so it’s also similar to local host. [00:47:19] Okay. So dot local cannot be used by anybody, which is good. Um, so yeah, use dot local. Don’t use.dev, but all of us used to use.dev because that wasn’t a real thing. And then Google made that an actual TLD and yeah. [00:47:35]Brett: [00:47:35] And I had all these redirects and my like, uh, [00:47:40] Christina: [00:47:40] Personal DNS file. [00:47:41] Brett: [00:47:41] Yeah. And so when.dev became a real thing, it took me a week to figure out why every time I clicked a link to a.dev site, my just spun because I was redirecting it. I was looping it back. And yeah, I figured that out. That was all me. But anyway, [00:48:00] anyway, um, so there was this, what was 2019 was the big Facebook data breach. [00:48:08] Christina: [00:48:08] Yeah, apparently. Um, [00:48:10] Brett: [00:48:10] it’s like top of the news. What happened? [00:48:12] Christina: [00:48:12] so yeah, there were like 500 million people’s information was, was, uh, breached and, and Facebook isn’t calling it a breach per se. They’re like, Oh, well, people were able to scrape things using various it’s a breach. Right. But it’s, but they’re, they’re trying to spend it in other ways. [00:48:27] Facebook is like, we’re not going to tell you if you were a victim of it or not. Because a, I think that they’re like, they don’t want to go through that rabbit hole and be they’re like, well, we, we just don’t know, which seems fake because the data’s out there, like you were able to find out, like, I don’t know. [00:48:43] Where, where did you go to find out if you were part of the breach or not? I [00:48:46] Brett: [00:48:46] I been pawned.com. They got, they, they can tell you whether you were in the, uh, initial leak and whether it’s been part of any pace and any forums. [00:48:59] Christina: [00:48:59] All right. [00:49:00] All right. That’s awesome. So, so I’ll check that out. So yeah. Have I been pawned.com and, um, uh, Troy hunt, you created that service is just awesome. Um, he, um, and, and that’s, it’s been integrated into a bunch of other, like, like one password uses it and a bunch of other services due to like, let you know if your stuff has been there, but yeah. [00:49:18] Um, Zach’s phone number was apparently part of the breach. Uh, and people found that he’s on signal, which. That I don’t find surprising because of course he’s on signal. Like, just because he owns Facebook and WhatsApp doesn’t mean that he would not use something like signal or another competitor service. [00:49:36] To me, the bigger question is like, okay, so does the duck change his phone number now? Like that seems like that’d be a hassle, like, uh, maybe not if you’re Mark Zuckerberg, but yeah. I mean even, but, but even his information was, was part of the, the breach. [00:49:52] Brett: [00:49:52] Uh, um, um, I’m on, have I been pawned.com right now? And the largest breach breaches, [00:50:00] uh, that they have, uh, recorded Facebook is number six, with 509 million, uh, accounts breached. Um, also they’re the most recent, so Facebook is top of the top of the charts. [00:50:17] Christina: [00:50:17] so, okay. I was part, I, my phone number is not part of it, which is good. My email address that I use for Facebook was part of the 500 pixel breach. The eight tracks [00:50:26] Brett: [00:50:26] Oh, yeah. Like I might email if I search my [00:50:30] Christina: [00:50:30] Oh yeah. My, the, the, the, uh, [00:50:33] Brett: [00:50:33] 20 years, [00:50:34] Christina: [00:50:34] the anti-public combo list, whatever the hell that was. Um, Kobe Dropbox, uh, E Vite exploit dot N. [00:50:45] Get Kickstarter, LinkedIn Mac forums, Mashable. Oh, fun. In approximately mid 2020, mashville suffered a data breach and subsequently turned up publicly in November, 2020. I didn’t know this, the data included 1.4 [00:51:00] million unique email addresses and names along with genders expired off tokens, physical locations, links to social media profiles a month to data. [00:51:07] Wow. Yeah. So w mass blown point tried to start our own social network called Nashville follow. And that, that must’ve been what was, um, uh, breached, um, Tumblr part of that verifications.io. You’ve been scraped and Zynga, but not part of Facebook. Interesting. Okay. Good for me. Um, although pretty mad about the Mashable one, like real mad about that one. [00:51:34] Like, Holy shit, is, this is new information that I’m learning right now on the pod. You know what? This is like. This is like when Blake, your former. This is like, when you find out that like your ex-boyfriend yeah. Or has an STD or as like a serial killer, right? Like this is like one of those things [00:51:54] Brett: [00:51:54] I think it’s closer to an STD than a serial killer. [00:51:57] Christina: [00:51:57] You’re correct. You’re correct. This is in [00:52:00] the grand scheme of things. No, this is completely like finding out that your ex and STD and you’re like, what the fuck dude? Like, could you, could you have told me, like, not cool. Now I have to tell everybody that I know, um, wow, fuck you Mashable. Like what the hell? [00:52:15] And to be clear, Chris, who had built that system, he stopped working at Mashable like five years ago. So, um, I think today, because I think the layoffs were actually five years ago today. So, so this is not his fault and the entire product team and tech team, everybody has left and, and, and Mashable was sold at the end of 2018 or the end of 2017 rather to, uh, J two global, which is the parent company of Ziff Davis and all kinds of other bullshit. [00:52:46] So this is all their fault. I don’t blame any of the people that I worked with back then. Uh, but fuck you Mashable like this, this feels dirty. This is pretty. Wow. [00:52:57] Brett: [00:52:57] I, there are, there are a bunch of [00:53:00] like, uh, last FM was hacked in 2012. Uh, but they it’ll it’ll end the descriptions. It’ll tell you that they were storing passwords as unsalted MD five hashes and all of these. If a company took security at all seriously. And you know, you may have to outsource your dev team might not be experienced with, uh, securing databases, storing passwords, securely, things like that, but it would be worth as if you’re, if you’re, if you have more than if you have more than a hundred users, you really should have someone come in and assess your security level. [00:53:40] Christina: [00:53:40] Yeah, I would agree with that, but it’s hard, right? Because that costs money. And like, if you’re trying to do something that’s smaller, but certainly by the obvious of like a hundred users I think is, is puts a weird owners, certainly a thousand. Um, if you have a big forum, that should definitely be a thing. [00:53:55] Like, cause a lot of mine like Mac forums was one of them subs. I might’ve said Mac rumors and that was [00:54:00] incorrect. Sorry. Macrumors uh, Mac forums. Um, their logo is very similar. Um, but yeah, like some of these are really big. Okay. The good, okay. Nashville one, it did have off tokens, email addresses, genders, you graphic locations, IP addresses, names, partial dates of birth, social media profiles, no passwords. [00:54:19] And frankly that other information is all either publicly available or inaccurate. So I’m not super mad about that, but um, [00:54:26] Brett: [00:54:26] Using different passwords on every website, uh, nod to one password. [00:54:32] Christina: [00:54:32] yeah, of [00:54:32] Brett: [00:54:32] so password passwords in a breach don’t have to be, uh, super dangerous if you use the breached password on every other website, [00:54:43] Christina: [00:54:43] that, that’s how people get hacked. That’s how people get hacked. Like that’s how people get into stuff. Like, and that’s also how people are able to find out other information. And, and we’ve seen that before. Like, uh, I remember when the Gawker hack happened, that there were a number of people like, um, the Gawker commenting hack. [00:54:57] I remember this, this was 2014. [00:55:00] Maybe might’ve been 2013. Um, there were a number of people that I worked with who then had their social media accounts or other emails or things violated because of that. Um, and so, um, a lot of these things, yeah, it’s one of those like, like I’m, I’m looking at kind of this list and, um, I’ve changed the passwords and all those things. [00:55:19] But I, I was already at the point where I was using unique passwords for these things, but, but the, the bigger thing is that your passwords not a big deal, but some of the stuff like. Your phone number, if that’s there or your date of birth or, you know, other stuff. Cause then people can use that for like [00:55:35] Brett: [00:55:35] theft. [00:55:35] Christina: [00:55:35] exactly. [00:55:36] Although, you know what we were in the United States, we’re all fucked because Equifax is hack. So like, you know, [00:55:44] Brett: [00:55:44] been fucked for awhile. [00:55:45] Christina: [00:55:45] yeah, no, but I mean, in that case, like it’s your social security number? Like, like, wow, I’m still mad. Whenever I think about that [00:55:54] Brett: [00:55:54] Yeah, [00:55:55] Christina: [00:55:55] and they were like, Oh, here’s a year maybe of free credit monitoring. [00:55:59] Fuck [00:56:00] you like monitor my credit for life. Honestly like monitor my creditor for life. You assholes you absolute vultures anyway. [00:56:08] Brett: [00:56:08] Yeah. You should not be allowed to have that much data about a person. If you cannot afford the, uh, the security on it. [00:56:21] Christina: [00:56:21] Yeah, I agree. I agree. Like, especially for something like that, if you’re grabbing someone’s social security, like I’m still angry that Equifax is still in business, but there’s still one of the three reporting agencies. Like, should that not be disqualifying? Like in your opinion, like, I feel like that should be disqualifying of you being allowed to be in business [00:56:38] Brett: [00:56:38] Well, I think [00:56:39] Christina: [00:56:39] you violate things to [00:56:40] Brett: [00:56:40] Sachs by the same logic, Goldman Sachs shouldn’t exist anymore either after the financial crash, like too big to fail. I mean, you know, [00:56:52] Christina: [00:56:52] I mean, I guess, I don’t know. I feel like the, well, the bank, I feel a little bit differently only insofar as there were a number of banks that did fail. Right. [00:57:00] Um, and I would also say like the, the trickle down effect of a failing bank is significant and could be like, like devastating for a lot of regular people, [00:57:15] Brett: [00:57:15] credit reporting wouldn’t have that same effect though. [00:57:18] Christina: [00:57:18] could accept, like you have experience and you have whatever the other one is. [00:57:23] So. I, I can’t remember his, his, his experienced Equifax does another one. And so it’s not as if they’re the only one, I don’t know. Maybe they should still be able to exist. What bothered me that this was the one thing that bothered me and I’m still mad about was that even after that, they still want some sort of like multi-billion dollar bid from the government for, for new business. [00:57:43] I’m like, Oh fuck you, you know, like, like pull the bid government. Like, I don’t care if no one else bid on it fricking pullet and, and go to their competitors and be like, Hey, would you like this money? Because I’m sure that, that they would be much more willing to put together an [00:58:00] RFP. Um, in light of that, I don’t know. [00:58:04]Brett: [00:58:04] yeah. [00:58:05] Christina: [00:58:05] you’re right though. It’s it’s not easy to just be like, yeah, just get rid of them. And just, it just bothers me that that Equifax continues to be able to operate the way they operate when their security practices were so lax [00:58:19] Brett: [00:58:19] I feel much the same about Trump [00:58:21]Christina: [00:58:21] Well, yeah, but [00:58:23] Brett: [00:58:23] only be allowed to make so many mistakes before you are just, uh, just removed from, uh, the public. See, I brought it back around to politics, [00:58:34]Christina: [00:58:34] it is, we’re a sensibly show about mental health and technology and Taylor Swift. But, uh, but this was a, this was a very politic heavy episode, which is, which is okay. Um, we’re, we’re going over, but I did want to ask you before I close out, have you, did you watch the original real world? [00:58:52]Brett: [00:58:52] the like the very first season. Yes. [00:58:56] Christina: [00:58:56] Okay. So paramount plus has been doing [00:59:00] this homecoming series where they have the entire original cast back together after 29 years. And they were reunited in the same loft that they lived in 30 years ago or 29 years ago. And it has been oddly compelling. And I would like to talk to you about it more in the future, but I just didn’t know if you’ve been watching the real world, if you you’d, if you’d seen the original seat series or not. [00:59:22] Brett: [00:59:22] Like I was, you know, back before reality TV was like a bad word to me. Yeah. The real world was interesting. Um, [00:59:29] Christina: [00:59:29] it was awesome, [00:59:30] Brett: [00:59:30] don’t know if I could do it again though. [00:59:33] Christina: [00:59:33] Well, I mean, I’m not saying that you should watch the whole thing. It just be more of interesting thing. I’ve been listening to a podcast, um, true story, uh, with, um, Dave Holmes suits, formerly of MTV and, um, Mike Dowdy, um, who was, uh, who who’s a musician who was with ’em, um, Fuck. [00:59:50] Um, now I can’t think of the name of a soul coughing. Um, there we go. Um, the band soul coughing and see how he’s had an independent, um, career. Um, but [01:00:00] he, uh, um, their podcast is actually really good about it is really good on it. But, um, I, uh, the final episode like launched today and I’ve, it’s made me think about reality TV and stuff, and we’re over, over time that, but I just was curious if you’d watch the original series, because it is interesting seeing those original seven people back together again and seeing like who’s changed and who’s good and who’s bad. [01:00:30] And, um, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s actually been strangely compelling. [01:00:36]Brett: [01:00:36] Imagine if we did like an overtired over time and had like a Patrion for people to like pay extra, to hear us when we just can’t stop talking. [01:00:49]Christina: [01:00:49] Let us know on our discord or on Twitter, if you would be interested in paying for that. [01:00:54] Brett: [01:00:54] I doesn’t matter. I can’t do it. I can’t, I don’t have the attention span to [01:01:00] do more than an hour. I just, I just, I just can’t do it. I’m sorry. People, I’m sorry to the thousands of people who are about to request that. Uh, I just, I’m sorry. Yeah. [01:01:11]Christina: [01:01:11] Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. [01:01:15] Brett: [01:01:15] Yeah, I guess that, that wraps up a bit of a weird week. [01:01:19] Christina: [01:01:19] Yeah. Yeah. It was just, I’m totally going to take responsibility for, I’m sorry. I’ve been [01:01:23] Brett: [01:01:23] You always take the blame for everything it’s never entirely your fault. [01:01:27] Christina: [01:01:27] now this week it is, and it’s fine. [01:01:29]Brett: [01:01:29] yeah. Get some sleep. [01:01:32]Christina: [01:01:32] Get some sleep, Brett.

Brett and Christina got some shots. Plus mayonnaise, environment managers, and James Spader. Sponsor Nebia: The Nebia by Moen Spa Shower uses 45% less water while providing a serious upgrade to your shower time. The first 100 people to use code overtired at Nebia.com will get 15% off all Nebia products. Just head to Nebia.com/Overtired to improve your shower experience. Show Links Hellman’s and Best Foods Apple adds two brand new Siri voices and will no longer default to a female voice in latest iOS Descript Descript Overdub James Spader Boston Legal The Practice Secretary Crash Stranger Than Fiction asdf kcknightfang’s coffee setup (Join us on Discord to get this stuff first hand) Black Blood of the Earth Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Christina Brett: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Hey, you’re listening to overtired. This is Brett Terpstra and I’m here with Christina Warren. How are you, Christina? [00:00:10] Christina: [00:00:10] I’m good. My arm hurts, but I’m good. [00:00:13] Brett: [00:00:13] Why does your arm hurt Christina? [00:00:15] Christina: [00:00:15] Cause I got the shot. [00:00:17] Brett: [00:00:17] Hey, I did too. [00:00:18] Christina: [00:00:18] Hell yeah. Which one did you get? [00:00:20] Brett: [00:00:20] Uh, Pfizer. [00:00:22] Christina: [00:00:22] Same [00:00:23] Brett: [00:00:23] I got a call. I was, I had, so on what day is it today? Thursday? [00:00:28] Christina: [00:00:28] is Thursday. Yeah. [00:00:31] Brett: [00:00:31] Uh, the clinic near me had a, like a walk in like the state opened up to anyone 16 and over, and they had a walk-in, they had 800 shots available, but I couldn’t get there until like three hours after it opened. [00:00:43] And I made the assumption that they would be out by then. [00:00:46] Christina: [00:00:46] Right. I would have, I would have thought that too. [00:00:48] Brett: [00:00:48] I live in a town of like 30,000 people and. It, it, it turned out they weren’t. And so the next day they had appointments, but I couldn’t get an appointment. So I had like put my name on a [00:01:00] waiting list. So last night I get a call at 7:00 PM that says, are you still interested? [00:01:05] Yes. Can you make it here? And under 20 minutes? Yes. It’s two minutes away from me. So I drove right there and I got my shot. [00:01:13]Christina: [00:01:13] Hell. Yeah, that’s awesome. We had like they, okay. So they are, they’ve announced that as of April 15th, everyone 16 and over in Washington state, we’ll be able to get the shot, but they opened up for way more people. Um, on the 31st, uh, I still didn’t qualify, but I volunteered at the, um, mass vaccination center at, uh, the Seahawks stadium Blumenfield and so I was able to get it after that, but grant did qualify, so he was able to get his too. [00:01:43] So. [00:01:44] Brett: [00:01:44] Not to get personal, but did he qualify for weight? Yeah, me too. Like I got bumped up on the waiting list because I, I told, I said I was, I think I’m technically obese. Like it’s actually a pretty low bar to get over these days. [00:02:00] Um, but I just put down obesity and, and I got the call. So. [00:02:05] Christina: [00:02:05] Yeah. Yeah. So he had that and then like smoker, um, even though he like it’s vaping, but still, and, um, yeah. High blood pressure. Like he had, he had a lot of things. Um, I am most, definitely not obese. I’m [00:02:20] Brett: [00:02:20] not. [00:02:21] Christina: [00:02:21] I’m I’m 15 pounds below a BMI that would say normal. So that’s, that’s like more than 15% of my body weight. [00:02:31] So, um, I, which honestly, you know, it’s not listed on, on one of like the comorbidities, but I have to think that’s gotta be like, not that much better for my body [00:02:48] Brett: [00:02:48] No, I would think you would be even more susceptible to [00:02:51] Christina: [00:02:51] I. I would agree with you 100%. I even like talked to a doctor about it and they were like, yeah, probably, but it’s not on the list because they had the [00:03:00] same thought. [00:03:00] And I was like, well, that’s kind of fucked. [00:03:02] Brett: [00:03:02] Did you hear Detroit put ADHD on the list? [00:03:06] Christina: [00:03:06] No, but good for them. [00:03:07] Brett: [00:03:07] Yeah. ADHD and autism and other mental illnesses, uh, made you eligible early on like months ago. [00:03:16] Christina: [00:03:16] Yeah, well, we, it was unclear according to the CDC things like I, like there are ways that I think that I probably could have like, Without any guilt gotten a shot. I mean, real talk, um, for the hosting stuff that I do for our events and whatnot. Like I did a thing on Monday actually, where, you know, I was, I went into a studio and I had, you know, hair and makeup and then I was, you know, shooting in front of a green screen for a few hours and whatnot. [00:03:40] And like, that means like, people’s like touching your face and you’re around crew. And even though you’re, you know, like following social distancing orders, like you still have. That sort of thing. And like, obviously that doesn’t make me, um, like an essential worker, the same way that, you know, actual frontline workers are. [00:03:58] But you know, like [00:04:00] I’m not claiming that, but at the same time, it’s like, okay, if these are things that are deemed business necessary, which they are then. I’m in a role that requires me to literally have people touching my face, you know, like, I don’t know. Um, so I probably didn’t have to volunteer, but I just, I did anyway and it was, it was easy. [00:04:22] It was just data entry stuff. And so, um, the, the way that they have it here is, I mean, it seems like you were able to find a place and you’re able to kind of get an appointment. Much more easily than you were even expecting, which is great. Um, as every other state, you know, it seems to kind of be like a mixed bag about how good their rollout systems are. [00:04:45] There are three, um, like community driven, like civilian docs, like mass vaccination sites, which are run really well. And frankly like in the city is promoting, but like these are civilian [00:05:00] systems. This is not something that like, you know, The, the government was like, yeah, let’s do this. Which is kind of sad to be totally Frank, because that should be their job if, if we’re being completely honest. [00:05:11] Um, but they had like the, the system down, but they had, um, you know, places where you could sign up for appointments and they were good enough that they opened stuff up on Saturday. At least it might’ve been earlier, but I saw it on Saturday for people to get appointments who would qualify on the 31st. [00:05:29] And so, um, The frustrating thing was, is that the official, like Washington state, like vaccination, officially vaccination website didn’t link to the correct. Page. And so the page that it linked to was like, Oh, there are no appointments available, but on this unofficial page, COVID, um, w a.com it linked to the proper page where there were like 3,800 appointments available. [00:05:55] So, um, I tweeted and I contacted everybody that I knew [00:06:00] who might possibly qualify our Franklin Fleischmann was able to get in. Like, I, I felt really good that I was like, I was getting direct messages and like, thank you. Some people who were like, I’m getting vaccinated earlier because I saw your tweet, which is so fucked, honestly. [00:06:15] Like I really, really genuinely happy to help people with that. But the official website should link to the proper pages this. Shouldn’t be a [00:06:25] Brett: [00:06:25] list, the waiting list I eventually did get on w I found via someone DMD me on Facebook and like the official website had zero links to it at all. And, uh, and it was like, it was on the website, but they didn’t update the main page or make it like any path to get to the waiting list. So it was all hush, hush. [00:06:47] Christina: [00:06:47] Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, that’s, that’s like, I think the most frustrating thing is, and this has been the case with everything. I mean, I think that it’s in the places that are doing it better or the places that have much broader partnerships with the local, like not the local, but like the chain [00:07:00] pharmacies. So New York and California have for weeks now have had partnerships with, um, with, with like Dwayne Reed, um, Walgreens and, um, and which is the same. And, uh, and I think CVS has had stuff too. And so that has. Made it easier for people, you know, because like there are those all over the place, but the, even, even those chains don’t have the distribution in place in every major city or every state. [00:07:29] So, you know, it’s kind of various thing to thing, but I think that’s, what’s frustrating about this, but it does seem at least like supplies is getting out there and that people are getting vaccinated and it’s becoming more available. And at this point, I’m with you, like now, like. I would say it’s probably 50 50 with people that I talk to you, like on a regular basis who are like, we’re within the same age range, you know, meaning we’re like under 50 or whatever who’ve been, who’ve been vaccinated. [00:07:59] So [00:08:00] that’s exciting. [00:08:01] Brett: [00:08:01] Yeah. I discovered like, So I I’ve always gotten in trouble for saying stupid stuff in social situations. Um, uh, often it comes out like mean, but I didn’t, I never noticed until, so after I got the shot last night, I had to sit in a room for 15 minutes to make sure there were no immediate side effects. And I was in a room with a bunch of other people sitting in chairs, six feet apart. [00:08:27] And, uh, I’m I’m I can be social, like. For, for half an hour at a time, that can be a very social person. I was having conversations, but when I got in my car and I closed the door and always silent, I felt my whole body just relax. Like I didn’t realize what almost like a state of panic I’m generally in, in social situations. [00:08:49] And I think that qualifies as social anxiety. And it’s no wonder, I say stupid stuff though. If you’re constantly in a state of panic, you’re, you’re going to say dumb stuff. [00:09:00] Yeah. How’s your, uh, how are you feeling today? [00:09:03] Christina: [00:09:03] Feeling fine. My arm hurts a lot. Um, but that’s about it. [00:09:09] Brett: [00:09:09] Mine’s only slightly sore. If I touch it, it doesn’t hurt otherwise. And I’m a little bit, I’m a little bit, uh, like. Tired like drained a little bit, but not like sick. [00:09:21]Christina: [00:09:21] Yeah, I’m not sure. Like, I can’t really tell if there are any other, um, symptoms other than like, my arm does hurt, like a lot. Like it, it’s not just when I touch it, it’s when I don’t move it. When I do move it, like it’s, it’s sore. Um, [00:09:35] Brett: [00:09:35] was the same way she got the Madonna, but her arm was like, I, I would keep forgetting and I’d reach over and tap, tap her arm and she’d be like, ah, no, not that arm. [00:09:44] Christina: [00:09:44] Yeah. Yeah, no, mine is, is like, I could tell that there was like a bruise. I mean, in fairness I also have like no fat. So, you know, it’s like one of those things that it’s hard to kind of know, you know, what’s the, the cause of it or [00:10:00] whatever, but, um, [00:10:01] Brett: [00:10:01] intramuscular shots on their own can be, uh, can be pretty painful. I know I’ve missed veins before I’ve done accidentally. It’s it can be, yeah, it can be very [00:10:12] Christina: [00:10:12] Yeah. And I definitely had like, um, intramuscular shots before, whether it was like a flu vaccine or something else, but usually it was something else where like, it’s been sore afterwards. Um, I don’t know if I can ever recall anything. That’s been like this sore, but again, I mean, I don’t care. I mean, like this could be the sort of thing that would be like have me at my ass and having to take a sick day and I would still be like, best shot ever. [00:10:33] You know what I mean? [00:10:34] Brett: [00:10:34] I was kind of hoping for a sick day, actually. I mean, not that I have like a day job yet. That’s still, still, still on the horizon for me, but just a chance to be like, Nope, can’t even answer emails today. Cause I’m knocked on my ass by this, this vaccine that you can’t disagree with me getting. [00:10:54]Christina: [00:10:54] You know what we will cross our fingers for, for shot too. Cause that’s the one that’s apparently really bad. [00:11:00] So, so fingers crossed for shot [00:11:02] Brett: [00:11:02] I might even have started at Oracle by the time I get shopped too. And then I’ll actually have something to be sick from plans. I have plans. [00:11:10] Christina: [00:11:10] You plans. [00:11:12] Brett: [00:11:12] So did you know that, uh, what is it shoot there’s this Manet’s company that has a different name on different sides of the Rockies. I think it’s, Heileman’s. On my side and best foods on the other. Does that sound familiar at all? [00:11:30] Christina: [00:11:30] I mean, I know Hellman’s, I didn’t realize that it was something else. [00:11:33] Brett: [00:11:33] So I saw, I, I might be getting, I know the other one is best foods, but I can’t remember what the, like, the one I know is, um, but I saw this commercial with Amy Schumer and, uh, she, like, I saw the exact same commercial twice, except it was for different Manet’s. [00:11:55] Christina: [00:11:55] Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So it, it, it, it is Hellman’s investments. I had no idea [00:12:00] that they are, apparently I get the same logo. [00:12:03] Brett: [00:12:03] they’re the same company. They just changed the name, like for a quarter of the U S it’s called something else. It’s so weird. [00:12:12] Christina: [00:12:12] That’s bizarre. So, okay. So best foods was acquired by Unilever in 2000, both brands, Flint previously sold in the U S based best foods corporation, which sold several other products in addition to helmets and best foods, mayonnaise. Here’s, what’s weird if, if it’s, if it’s East of the Rocky mountains and that would mean that [00:12:28] Brett: [00:12:28] That that was arbitrary. I just, I don’t think they specifically said East of the Rocky mountain. [00:12:33] Christina: [00:12:33] No, no, this is according to the Wikipedia page. [00:12:36] Brett: [00:12:36] Okay. Okay. [00:12:37] Christina: [00:12:37] So, so you’re correct. So the Hellman’s brand is sold in the United States, East of the Rocky mountains. Okay. So that’d be where I grew up and where I’ve lived almost my whole life, but I live on the West coast. Now this just shows two things. One how little I look at Manet’s. I literally don’t and too, like how little I go to the grocery store because I had, I’ve lived here for four years and I’ve [00:13:00] no clue that apparently, and maybe it’s not, I don’t, I don’t know, but, but I guess Hellman’s is best foods here, which is freaking bizarre, but it’s even more bizarre that Amy Schumer did two ads with like different or maybe she just did one and they just did the different branding on [00:13:17] Brett: [00:13:17] Well, yeah, no, it’s, it’s like the exact same match. They just change the name on the jar. She’s holding and the word she says, just G they just [00:13:26] Christina: [00:13:26] Oh, that’s hilarious. That’s hilarious to me that like she had to do like multiple takes with both things like that. I would love to actually see outtakes of, cause I would, I would love to like know like how frequently she like said the wrong thing with the, you know what I mean? [00:13:41] Brett: [00:13:41] Yeah. [00:13:42] Christina: [00:13:42] You’re holding the Hellman’s and you say is Hellman’s it’s real Manet’s and they’re like, Amy, that’s the best foods thing. [00:13:48] She’s like, motherfucker. [00:13:49] Brett: [00:13:49] Yeah. Um, that was a weird diversion. I just took us on. [00:13:55] Christina: [00:13:55] I know, but I liked it [00:13:56] Brett: [00:13:56] I didn’t realize I liked Manet’s my entire life. I didn’t think I [00:14:00] liked Manet’s until, uh, hello. Fresh started sending me recipes that had, uh, like garlic Manet’s in them. And like, as like a dipping sauce for like French fries and it turned out, I actually kinda like Manet’s and also grilling cheese. [00:14:17] I didn’t even know grilling cheese was a thing and now people just send it to me in the mail. It’s amazing. [00:14:23] Christina: [00:14:23] Um, yeah, I didn’t realize it was either. Now I will say this. I did not know that. This, um, uh, grant told me that the grilled cheeses he makes for me, he does do the thing where he puts like mayonnaise on the top or whatever. Which I didn’t know until he told me this, this was like a year ago and he does make a really good grilled cheese. [00:14:38] So that apparently I have enjoyed having said that I don’t like mayonnaise and it’s weird because I like ranch dressing. I like Caesar dressing. And I know that ranch is very similar to Manet’s, but if, for whatever reason, I like ranch. I like eggs. I, but I don’t know what it is. I don’t like Manet’s I don’t like the. [00:15:00] [00:15:00] I just, it’s not one of those things that I enjoy at all. Um, [00:15:04] Brett: [00:15:04] like sour cream. That’s my thing. [00:15:06] Christina: [00:15:06] Oh, I love sour cream. I know. I love, I love sour cream. Um, I like cottage cheese. I like, [00:15:13] Brett: [00:15:13] cheese. Do you like, do you like the small curd or the large curd, cottage cheese? [00:15:18] Christina: [00:15:18] probably small more, but I mean, I’ll, I’ll eat it. I like how the cheese period. [00:15:22] Brett: [00:15:22] Have you ever had cottage cheese with canned peaches on it? [00:15:25] Christina: [00:15:25] Oh yeah. [00:15:26] Brett: [00:15:26] Oh, that’s so good. [00:15:27] Christina: [00:15:27] That’s fantastic. Also with the cantaloupe cantaloupe [00:15:30] Brett: [00:15:30] Cantaloupe doesn’t work in most things for me, but it’s good with cottage cheese. [00:15:34] Christina: [00:15:34] good of cottage cheese. I also a pineapple is, is classic. [00:15:38] Brett: [00:15:38] that seems a little, a little citrusy for the, uh, for the curdled milk. [00:15:43] Christina: [00:15:43] It is, but it’s really nice. [00:15:45] Brett: [00:15:45] I’ll take your word for it. I might even try it someday, but we’ll see. [00:15:50]Christina: [00:15:50] Yeah. I, um, I. I, uh, I’m, I’m a fan. Um, but yeah, it’s weird. Like, I should, I should, like, in [00:16:00] theory, I should like Manet’s, but I don’t, although, like I said, I I’ve had it in I’ve had it, like when it snuck into things, I guess if it’s been used, like, if it’s been using a grilled cheese, cause it’s on like the outside, you know, these uses like the butter substitute or whatever and, and that’s fine. [00:16:14] Um, I was really high once. And I ate something that had Manet’s in it, and I didn’t even care because I was so stoned. Um, but that’s, I think the last time that I can remember like willingly eating mayonnaise and not being bothered by it. [00:16:30]Brett: [00:16:30] All right. I, uh, so I think I mentioned on a previous episode that my, I had broken a key on my, my beta uhk. Okay. Ultimate hacking keyboard. And so I had lost the right square bracket key and yeah, I remember talking about it cause I talked about how that’s, how I shift tabs and, uh, it w it, it was weird. [00:16:56] Cause when I’m coding, most of my ideas, if I [00:17:00] type the left bracket, it automatically pairs with the right bracket and I don’t actually have to type a right bracket. So I didn’t miss it right away. But anyway, um, I took it apart. And I sent a picture of the, uh, backside of the, the board. And it was clear that it had lost a connection between the board and the switch. [00:17:24] And he’s like, yeah, you’ll just have to solder that. And when you’re done the key, the switch, won’t be hot swappable anymore. Uh, but just sat or a wire in there. But then as I was taking the keyboard fully apart to do this, the little like tab that goes over, the posts just fell out and it’s like a couple of millimeters long and I’m so happy I saw it because I was able to get a pair of tweezers and put that back onto the post and tack it on. [00:17:55] And I, I believe. My switches are all still hot [00:18:00] swappable. And I fixed it with the help of my father, my dad, my dad had all the soldering tools. So it was with my dad. [00:18:07]Christina: [00:18:07] That’s awesome. That’s great. [00:18:09] Brett: [00:18:09] I’m less scared of Saturday and keyboards. Now, still like the amount of time it took me to manipulate that piece. Like I didn’t have a magnifying glass and we were using Swiss army tweezers. Cause I forgot to bring my, like I fix it tweezers with me. And, uh, so like with those like chunky Swiss army tweezers and no magnifying glass and both my dad and I have pretty shaky hands. [00:18:33] So it was like a 15 minute job to get that one terminal on there. And I can’t imagine doing an entire keyboard of that. I would die. [00:18:44]Christina: [00:18:44] Yeah, no, that wasn’t bad for you. [00:18:47] Brett: [00:18:47] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I can solder now. He says after attacking one [00:18:53] Christina: [00:18:53] He says after half, after making his dad do it for him. [00:18:56]Brett: [00:18:56] I helped, what’s that like, I’ve never [00:19:00] soldered before I know how to solder, [00:19:02] Christina: [00:19:02] No. I understand. I mean, yeah, I haven’t soldered and it’s been a really long time actually. No, I spend like a year. Um, but that was, but that was a, that was for like an unrelated, like it was for a stupid kind of thing or whatever, [00:19:16] Brett: [00:19:16] Because you were high, you were so stoned. You were like let’s solder or [00:19:20] Christina: [00:19:20] no, no. My friend Julie had like a kid. And we were, what were we trying to do? [00:19:26] Oh, we went to Goodwill and we found this bizarre thing from the fifties. This was a real thing. It was a coffee maker that would plug in to your cars, like, um, a cigarette lighter. And it was like a coffee maker, [00:19:46] Brett: [00:19:46] Wow. Like a percolator. [00:19:48] Christina: [00:19:48] You’re like a percolator. Yeah. Which, you know, seems like the most unsafe, ridiculously dumb thing ever. [00:19:53] And in fact, when I saw the box, I was like, and it was like $2 of them. And I was like, I’m buying this because this just looks ridiculous. [00:19:58] Brett: [00:19:58] have to, at that point. [00:19:59] Christina: [00:19:59] And [00:20:00] we wanted to get it to work. And it was one of those things where we were like, okay, well we need to, we need to find like a, uh, a cable, you know, that, um, had the right, like, um, like, like voltage or whatever, that was just like a regular, um, you know, plug in the wall thing. [00:20:13] Cause we wanted to be able to use it. And so that required, you know, cutting the cable and then soldering the, the new plug on. And so that was the last time I saw her do anything. [00:20:23] Brett: [00:20:23] Have you ever seen the shrink wrap? They’re like, you can take two braided wires and then put this like shrink wrap thing and you put, you put the two ends of the wire into it and then you just heat it up and it binds them together, like stronger than the actual. Original. Like if the wire were continuous, it’s actually stronger than just the copper alone. [00:20:46] It’s super handy. If you ever need to before exactly. That kind of thing. If you want to put a different kind of plug on something or change your USB cable out. Yeah. I’ll find a link. It’ll be in the show notes [00:21:00] for anyone who has such an, who should, Oh, hello. Fresh had sponsor us. I could talk about them a lot. [00:21:06] Christina: [00:21:06] Yeah, they should totally, totally, uh, sponsor us. [00:21:10] Brett: [00:21:10] know, who is sponsoring us though? [00:21:12]Christina: [00:21:12] who is that? [00:21:13] Brett: [00:21:13] Is it time for an ad read? [00:21:15] Christina: [00:21:15] I think it is [00:21:16] Brett: [00:21:16] Yeah, we’re like 20 minutes in. Damn time flies. Sponsor: NebiaThis episode is sponsored by Nebia the creators of the Nebia by Mowen spa shower backed by some of the biggest names in Silicon Valley, including Tim cook. It’s designed by former Tesla, NASA, and Apple engineers who spent years researching and developing a superior shower experience that also saves water. [00:21:40]The Nebia by Mowen spa shower is Nebia is most advanced shower yet with twice the coverage and half the water usage of the competition. And despite using 45% less water, its spray is 81% more powerful than other showers. And it’s atomized droplets, rinse shampoo, and conditioner out of even the thickest hair. [00:21:59] Uh, [00:22:00] neither Christina nor I have thick hair, but Christina actually has hair. And would say the shower works. [00:22:08] Christina: [00:22:08] It does. It works really well. I will say I did recently. Cut. Like six inches, at least off my hair, but my hair is still very long, which is just goes to show you how long it had been since I’d had a haircut. Um, no, but the shower works great and it does work great if you have hair and long hair that, and until literally like less than a week ago, my hair was past my boobs and was very, very long and there was a lot of it and, uh, it totally, totally, totally was great. [00:22:39]Brett: [00:22:39] So with easy self installation, Nebia by Mowen can be installed in 15 minutes or less without the need for contractors, plumbers, or broken tile. If you can change a light bulb, you can install the Nebia by Mowen. It’s seriously easy. I installed mine in like 10 minutes and I didn’t need a single tool that wasn’t included in the box. [00:22:59] It was pretty, [00:23:00] pretty easy for you to right Christina. [00:23:02] Christina: [00:23:02] Yeah, it was totally easy. And I have to say like, it’s been way longer since I tried to, to anything, you know? Yeah. With like wrenches or, or installing like anything like related to plumbing, um, way longer than, than last time I had soldered. So I was a little bit concerned, even though, like you told me and everybody told me, he’s like, Oh, it’s gonna be easy duty. [00:23:20] I was like, yeah, I don’t know. I needed a little bit of help just because of my height. But other than that, I was able to actually do the whole thing and I actually made it a point to do the whole thing. And, um, it was really simple to install. So [00:23:33] Brett: [00:23:33] Yeah, they can’t fit a ladder in the box. [00:23:35] Christina: [00:23:35] No, they can’t fit a ladder on the box, but, um, it was one of those things that honestly I could have had like a step stool in the bathtub and I would have been fine, but, uh, I did like it, you know, invoke someone taller than me, uh, to help me, um, place things. [00:23:48] But yeah, no, it was really easy to install. So [00:23:51] Brett: [00:23:51] The Nebia by Mowen spa shower starts at one 99 and we have a deal for overtired listeners. The first 100 people to use the [00:24:00] code overtired@nebia.com. We’ll get 15% off of all Nebia. Products. It’s rare that Nebia offers deals like this. So don’t wait, go to indiebio.com/overtired that’s N E B I a.com/overtired and check out what they have to offer. [00:24:18] And the first 100 people to use the code. Over-tired when checking out, we’ll save 15% on all Nebia products. So again, that’s nebia.com/overtired. And use that code over-tired to save 15%. Thanks to Nebia. [00:24:33]Yeah. So what do you want to talk about? We have, we have like multiple directions. We could go right now. [00:24:40]Christina: [00:24:40] Okay. So I want to do a quick rant because we’re recording this on April fool’s day. And I feel about both of the brands which our listeners have said that, that they appreciate. And it’s also like a, an apology. So I feel like personally, Somewhat responsible [00:25:00] for aiding in the culture that unfortunately still permeates after more than a decade where brands do stupid social media, April fools campaigns to break the internet. [00:25:14] And I, I feel partially responsible. Like I’m not entirely responsible, but Mashable is. Definitely largely responsible. And since I was at Nashville for such a long time and definitely there at like the height of its masterfulness, I feel really bad. And, uh, I don’t know. I I’m seeing stupid stuff all over my Twitter feed and I’m glad that I don’t have to care about it, but being like, Oh my God, what did I do? It was, this is the thing like, like, like 14, 13, 14 years ago, like when you and I were first blogging together, like in Twitter was small, it was fun. And then brands do what brands always do, which is ruined things and make it worse. [00:25:57] Brett: [00:25:57] Yeah. Well, it’s the kind of thing that [00:26:00] after you get fooled a couple of times, it’s, it’s all that you’re just like, yeah. It’s April fool’s day. Don’t believe anything. And, uh, and then it’s almost annoying when people even try. I feel like we hit that point a good 10 years ago. [00:26:15] Christina: [00:26:15] I was probably six or seven, but yeah, I mean, cause I can, I’m trying to remember. There were some, still some good ones that you would see occasionally. Um, I will say to my everlasting regret. There was one April fools prank, cause mashville would always do one ourselves, like one year Conan O’Brien claimed that he bought it, bought, bought the site or whatever, and, and we would do other sorts of things. [00:26:37] And I don’t think the Conan one actually worked very well to be honest, but he was a celebrity and wanted to be part of it and fine. Um, but we did a thing with shack one year and I was like one part of the team that was, you know, they were like the, the, the branded team, like the marketing team was like coming up with pitches for what they could do. [00:26:58] And they enlisted [00:27:00] me, even though I wasn’t on that team because they thought I was creative and had good ideas and whatnot. And I was like, okay, well, the only thing you can do is you need to say that we’re, you’re going to bring back Shaq Fu. The, the classic terrible, um, Sega, Genesis and super Nintendo fighting game from the 1990s. [00:27:16] Like it’s, it’s known as like one of the worst games of all time. And it’s like this weird fighting game slash like side scroller. It’s just, it’s really bad. And, um, this was like 2012 and I was like, Bring back Shaq food, like that’s, that’s the pitch. And unfortunately, I didn’t do a good enough job selling how good that would have been, because it would have been one of like, it would have dominated that year. [00:27:38] Like it would have been the thing that everyone talked about, like without a doubt, um, because the other, the people. Involved, like we’re either a little bit too young or a little bit too old, and like just didn’t get the gravity of how great that would have been fast forward. Like six years after that, they actually did revive Shaq Fu and it broke the internet and it was a huge success. [00:27:59] And that was [00:28:00] not related to an April fool’s day thing. But that is one of those things that like to the state haunts me, that I could have done some good in the world. And instead I like perpetuated really bad shit. And when I could have, like, it would have been genuinely a really hilarious thing to, you know, troll and be like Shaq Fu is coming back. [00:28:18] Brett: [00:28:18] Well on behalf of the internet, I forgive you. [00:28:21] Christina: [00:28:21] Thank you. Thank you. [00:28:23] Brett: [00:28:23] Um, so, uh, Apple. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for the rent. Thanks everyone for tuning in this has been Christina’s corner. Um, we actually, we serve with a pretty good health corner too. Um, so Apple is, uh, no longer as of the next OS anyway, and out in the beta right now. [00:28:44] They’re no longer defaulting to a female Siri. this has been a topic of this conversation. How all of the assistants, default to female voices. [00:28:56] Christina: [00:28:56] Well, and, and I, I should note that in some countries, like for instance, [00:29:00] in the United Kingdom, and I think in some other areas too, For years now, the default voice has been masculine. Uh, but this is going to be different for North America, for the United States. And it will be on new devices you set up. So for instance, if you set something up, like if you upgrade an existing phone, or I guess if you buy a phone and like bring over all your settings or whatever, then like the classic, you know, female series, that’s how you have it set up. [00:29:23] We’ll still be that way. But if you’re setting up a new device in North America, it’s no longer going to default to a female voice, which is pretty cool. [00:29:32] Brett: [00:29:32] Yeah, and it has new voices too, right? [00:29:35] Christina: [00:29:35] are new voices too. And, uh, I actually think John Gruber put this best because I’m trying to think about how I can phrase this without it being the voices are diverse. And so if you can hear it, you hear it. If you don’t, you won’t notice anything, but the voices are diverse and which I think is great. [00:29:53] The also sound. Even better than, um, like the, the male and female, like [00:30:00] classic Siri voices that have been around for a while. Like they, they sound even more realistic in my opinion. [00:30:05] Brett: [00:30:05] Nice. And they also added a, what are the TTS natural voices for? What is that? Russia? There, there were three countries that they’re finally upgrading to use more natural language voice, but now I’ve lost it. So, anyway, forget I said anything. Forget. I started to say anything. [00:30:28]Christina: [00:30:28] No, but it’s cool. I mean, I think, I think though that it is it’s well, what opens this up? I think, and people are. Kind of talking about this as potentially to go into a place like this. Certainly not in that space yet, but it certainly could go to a place. Like I believe a, the way the voices are labeled is just voice one, two, three, four, rather than male, female, which is a good step because that could potentially move us to a place where you have like, you know, not like gender neutral voices, which I think is even better. [00:30:56] Um, [00:30:57] Brett: [00:30:57] there was some talk about, uh, uh, offering [00:31:00] more neutral voices all the way around. [00:31:02] Christina: [00:31:02] Yeah, which I think would be good. Uh, what’s always been weird to me. Like I understand why the initial impotence and, and I said this to somebody who was using Siri actually before Apple bought it. So it was a startup called Siri. That was a spinoff of Sri, which was originally incubated within DARPA and, um, uh, The company, you know, what they were doing with it. [00:31:27] They had all these grand plans and a lot of it still this day never really found its way, uh, you know, into kind of reality. Like they had an API and stuff like wave way years before, you know, Apple had anything like that and, and work with a lot of third parties and whatnot. But, um, what was always interesting, you know, and, but I remember talking to those founders and, uh, and, and the reason I remember this is because they sent me like an iPod touch in like 2010 and like, it had. [00:31:54] You know, cause before, um, test flight or any of that stuff existed. So the only way that you could have like beta versions of apps [00:32:00] would be like, if you siloed it onto a device. So like they actually mailed me like an iPod touch. And I remember talking with the founders and like they very much had wanted it to be conversational and to feel like it was a good experience. [00:32:13] And I don’t remember. Um, if there was a voice to it, or if it was just something that you kind of like spoke to and interacted with, it had the human language component, but I don’t remember if it had a voice on it or not. I honestly can’t remember, but the, the, the whole idea was always for it to feel human and Apple very clearly wanted it to feel like a real person. [00:32:31] And so I get why the voices were so realistic. But I’m not sure. I mean, at this point, like, and I think that was the idea behind, you know, Alexa and the other assistants too, is like, make people comfortable talking to things. And so you don’t want it to sound robotic, but now that we’re more than a decade into this, I’m kind of like, could we just have kind of a robotic voice? [00:32:53] I would kind of be down for that to be totally honest. I don’t know how you feel. [00:32:56] Brett: [00:32:56] I always went. You do, do you know, the voices are [00:33:00] Vox and like when, on Apple, on a [00:33:03] Christina: [00:33:03] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:33:06] Brett: [00:33:06] you use the say command, like it always used to have a voice called Starbucks, and now you have to go into settings and download the voice, but that’s the voice I always choose. It sounds like, uh, an evil robot whispering. [00:33:21] Loudly. It’s it’s a great, it’s the perfect, anytime I want my computer to like, announce that it’s like finished compiling something. I have Zar box go finished compiling it’s it’s perfect. I would love it. If Siri had the Hazara box voice. [00:33:37]Christina: [00:33:37] Yeah, I agree. So that, that, that that’s that’s to me, um, kind of like would be. A way to address a lot of this stuff. Like I get why we needed the human voices a decade ago, because you needed to make people comfortable, but now people are comfortable talking to their devices. So could we make it kitschy and [00:34:00] like take the human element away from it? [00:34:02] I don’t know. Just a thought. [00:34:05] don’t think so. [00:34:06] Brett: [00:34:06] Um, so it’s this, it’s this app that you load your multiple tracks into it and it transcribes them. And then you can select text in the transcription, edit it and it’ll edit the audio. So you [00:34:20] Christina: [00:34:20] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven’t used it, but I you’ve told me about it. Other people have told me about [00:34:24] Brett: [00:34:24] It’s amazing. And it has this feature called overdub where you can train a voice, you read to it for 30 to 60 minutes and it learns all of your inflections, all of your pauses, all of your tonality. And then it creates an overdub voice for you. And then you can just type into the transcript and it will. [00:34:45] Make it sound like you said, the words you’ve typed and I have actually used it on this podcast. If I need to edit in a sponsor read instead of going in and like recording new audio, I just added it up. I delete the part that needs [00:35:00] fixing type in the new words and it almost always sounds perfectly natural. [00:35:05] Makes me think I would love it. If Siri had like my voice or, or Elle’s voice, that would be super cool. [00:35:13] Christina: [00:35:13] no, I agree with you. That would be pretty awesome. I would also, I mean, this is just me. I would like Roger Ebert’s voice. [00:35:21]Brett: [00:35:21] That would be awesome. If celebrities could train their own overdubs and you could just choose your favorite, [00:35:27]Christina: [00:35:27] Oh, Samuel Jackson would be good too. The reason I said to Roger Ebert is because, you know, he lost his voice before he died of cancer. He’d had, um, you know, uh, throat cancer and he’d lost his ability. To use his voice. And so early on, this was way before, you know, how good the technology is now. [00:35:46] Like it was a very expensive and long process where they did, you know, a version of what you can now do, you know, in a web app, um, where like, Somebody digitized [00:36:00] his audio commentaries and his TV episodes and other stuff, and like built a voice for him so that he could use speech tech software and it would, it would speak in his own voice. [00:36:09] And like he was on Oprah showing it off and, you know, it was really, it was really cool. Um, so as kind of a nod that I would like Roger Ebert to be my virtual assistant voice. But yeah, I agree with you. I think that make it. Let celebrity sell their voices. Right? Like, honestly, like that, that could even be a licensing scheme. [00:36:28] Like there’ve been things, I think that it’s Samsung’s, um, big SPE or whatever. I think might’ve even had a thing or maybe it was Google. I don’t remember. But like there were things I think, where they did license certain voices from people for brief periods of time. Um, but yeah, like make that a permanent thing or, or find a way where people can upload their own or customize their own. [00:36:51] Cause yeah. [00:36:51] Brett: [00:36:51] store for voices. You could go on and just pay 1499 to have, you know, who would, who would I [00:37:00] have? I would have Leonard Cohen. [00:37:04] Christina: [00:37:04] That’d be good. I mean, I would obviously have Taylor Swift, but, um, you know, Hey guys at stealer, no, I, we clearly have that, uh, literary color and it’d be a really good one actually. [00:37:15] Brett: [00:37:15] yeah. Too bad. He’s not around to record an overdose voice anymore. [00:37:21] Christina: [00:37:21] I know Peter Siegel, maybe [00:37:23] Brett: [00:37:23] Yeah. Yeah. Oh, uh, what’s his name? Uh, from Boston legal? Uh, no, it was about, no. [00:37:31] Christina: [00:37:31] William Shatner, [00:37:31] Brett: [00:37:31] no. The other one. [00:37:33] Christina: [00:37:33] James Spader. Oh, James Spader would be a girl. Oh my God. James, Peter be an amazing voice. Well, yeah, because you know, he, because the, the, I mean, it wasn’t just voice work, but largely voice work that he did in the Avengers films. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s great. [00:37:47] Brett: [00:37:47] We just got, we were rewatching all of the office right now. We just got to the Robert California part. [00:37:53] Christina: [00:37:53] Which was so, so weird. Like that was such a weird era of the show. Like it didn’t really work, but I also am glad they, [00:38:00] that he was there, like. [00:38:03] Brett: [00:38:03] The episode where he has the party in his house that he’s about to sell. And he’s walking around and talking about carnal desires and Baucus, and everyone’s drinking wine. And, and then he jumps into the pool naked. That is for me, like that is the pinnacle of this season that we’re on. [00:38:23] Christina: [00:38:23] No. I agree. I think, I think that one, there was also, I think like the one when they go to Florida, um, There was, there was some stuff there that was really good, but yeah, I would agree with that because the thing didn’t really work. He was there for a year. It was a good experiment, but the subversiveness and the weirdness that he brought to that show, like, I very much appreciated how weird it wasn’t like, it didn’t really fit. [00:38:51] Right. But it was one of those things where I was like, you know what I appreciate how weird James Spader is and how weird he played that role. Also, from what I understand, [00:39:00] Um, I listened to the office ladies podcast and they haven’t gotten to those episodes yet. So I’m looking forward to them talking about it, but from what I’ve read and like the officer oral history and some other stuff like James Spader didn’t really interact with the cast. [00:39:12] He wasn’t really part of any of that stuff. He was just kind of came in and did his thing, which makes me love it even more because I felt like, like, I don’t think he’s a very method actor, but he definitely, I think. Oh, it totally is. But I’m saying, I don’t think in general he is, but I think he totally went method on that, which is great. [00:39:30] Um, Yeah, I, I loved him on Boston legal. He, uh, so one of my, my favorite shows in the nineties was the practice. And that was like one of the DVD Kelly, like lawyer dramas. And he had like five of them on TV at the same time. And, uh, he had like Allie McBeal on, on one network and the practice on another network. [00:39:49] And like he famously was able to have the shows crossover. Even though they’re on different networks, um, which you know, is not common. Um, he also won the Emmy one year for both of [00:40:00] those shows like drama and comedy. But, um, the last season that that show was on the air. The budget got cut to hell and they fire everybody who made a lot of money. [00:40:11] So Dermot, Mulroney, um, uh, no Dylan McDermott. I always get confused. Don’t don’t McDermott like fired Laura Flynn Boyle fired like, uh, the, the girl who poo played, um, Dylan McDermott’s wife fired like. Half the cat, like more than half a gas and gone. And then they bring in James Spader and some other like very pretty girl who like had, I don’t think he’d done anything before. [00:40:36] And James Spader. Just has a blast. And this was the character that he did in, in Boston legal and, um, and, and he just basically runs a muck up the whole thing. And that season of television is one of my favorite things to watch because you see the surviving cast members who like weren’t laid off, who. [00:40:58] You know, has to be difficult when [00:41:00] like you’re still stuck in this contract. This is not the same job that you signed up for the glory days of the Emmy wins. And like being like one of like the top shows on TV are long gone, but you’re still on this show. And then incomes, you know, James Spader, who up to this point, it was at mostly, was mostly doing like indie films or whatever, you know, he did like sex lies and videotape famously. [00:41:20] And what was the, was the movie about the, [00:41:23] Brett: [00:41:23] The secretary. [00:41:25] Christina: [00:41:25] His secretary. Yeah. Yeah. This was, this was right around the time. Actually. I think the secretary came out and, um, w w what was the, uh, Cronenberg, uh, car sex film? I [00:41:34] Brett: [00:41:34] Oh, [00:41:35] Christina: [00:41:35] of it. Yeah, there crap. There we go. [00:41:37] Brett: [00:41:37] Was he in crash? I don’t remember that now. I have to go watch crash again. [00:41:42] Christina: [00:41:42] It’s a good film. So, so he’s, you know, he, he would kind of gone in that direction. Right. And, and then he just comes and he’s Alan shore and he just has a blast and he just, his character is just giddy with excitement and the rest of the actors just don’t know what to do with him. And he just has such a good time that he winds up, [00:42:00] like getting his own spinoff. [00:42:02] And, you know, like they introduced a William Shatner’s character in the last, uh, couple of episodes, and then he got his own off that then ran for like another five or six years. It’s kind of amazing. Um, So that was like a random ramp activity. Have you ever really want to watch really? Cause it’s always interesting to watch TV shows, like you’re rewatching the office right now. [00:42:19] And you’re now in that era where like the office is struggling. Like there are moments, but it is having like a hard time finding itself after Steve Carell left. Right? Like it is not like at, it’s not peak opposite all like the glory days of behind it. I think they they’re managed to get some stuff back, especially in some of the final episodes of the final season, but like, it is definitely on the downturn. [00:42:39] Um, and that’s always interesting to watch, you know, when shows go through that kind of slump at whatnot. Well, what was so interesting about this was that the show got better. It just became a completely different show. So much to the point that like, it did become a different show. Like it got its own spinoff and, and that was just such a bizarre and weird thing to watch. [00:42:57] And, and, uh, this [00:43:00] happened, I think like my freshman or sophomore year of college and we were just like watching it and in. Maybe this is why it sticks with me. Cause I was starting to study film and television from like a much more academic perspective. And it was one of those things where I was just like, yeah, this is really. [00:43:16]Not common, but amazing to like pick up on and to see just the insanity that isn’t suing with this right now. So if anybody wants to ever wants anything fun, it’s on Hulu. So have you ever, when I like something like interesting to watch, it’s just to see a complete tonal shift with the show and an actor just completely like railroad over everyone else in the cast and just completely make it his own. [00:43:42] Like, it’s kind of great. [00:43:43] Brett: [00:43:43] we still talking about the practice? [00:43:44] Christina: [00:43:44] I’m done. [00:43:45] Brett: [00:43:45] No, I just like, I w I wasn’t sure if you were talking about a different show that, [00:43:49] Christina: [00:43:49] No, no, it was the practice I was talking about just watching the final season of the practice to see James Spader just completely like run over the whole cast and changed the show completely [00:43:58] Brett: [00:43:58] He’s never been me. [00:44:00] Tude has he, [00:44:01] Christina: [00:44:01] to my knowledge. No. [00:44:03] Brett: [00:44:03] can. He plays like when he plays creepy, he played creepy. So if he were [00:44:09] Christina: [00:44:09] a long time. Yeah. Like no one be [00:44:11] Brett: [00:44:11] I would shut her to think that anyone in real life had had to go through creepy James Spader. [00:44:17] Christina: [00:44:17] Yeah, I’m looking this up right now. [00:44:19]Nackey Gyllenhaal claims that he was dismissive of her. Um, in secretary, that’s not the same thing [00:44:27] Brett: [00:44:27] that’s not. [00:44:28] Christina: [00:44:28] at all. So frankly also like. Maggie Gyllenhaal that full major career, but sorry, but it did like, that’s the only good movies she’s ever been in. So. [00:44:38] Brett: [00:44:38] No, not true. I just saw her in, Oh, she was playing a Baker. What movie was that? Dammit. It was pretty good. Oh no, it was stupid. It was a stupid movie. Will Farrell the, uh, stranger than fiction. I liked her in that movie. [00:45:00] [00:45:00] Christina: [00:45:00] All right. And, and I’m sorry. Okay. And I actually, that’s kinda shitty me to say, just because of FilmAid your career doesn’t mean you just have to put up with like abuse or whatever. I’m not, but, so, so that, I want to clarify that, but one of our claims about him, we’re, we’re definitely not in the mood we shoot. [00:45:14] Right. Are you more of the, like, I didn’t like that he was OCD and made me feel like was dismissive of me onset bitch, please. Like, honestly, he was the star, not you. So [00:45:26] Brett: [00:45:26] Yeah. Uh, if, if being an asshole were grounds for firing, we would lose a lot of top build actors. I use actor as a, as a unisex term. It’s all, all of the acting people, um, [00:45:43] Christina: [00:45:43] you’re right. We would, we would. So yeah. Good call. [00:45:45] Brett: [00:45:45] So w in our discord, w w there’s some, some weird stuff pops up now. And then, uh, I recently was enamored with KC night fangs, uh, [00:46:00] coffee setup. Did you, did you look at that? [00:46:02] Christina: [00:46:02] I did. And it is intense. [00:46:05] Brett: [00:46:05] Yeah, it’s uh, it’s uh, how do you describe it? A vacuum extracted cold brew, Turkish coffee set up. [00:46:14] He’s making it with something called death, wish Odin force. And he’s doing a triple brew on it. So it’s like a, um, a week long probably process with all of these vacuum tubes and beakers. And it’s crazy. It reminds me of black blood of the earth. [00:46:31]Christina: [00:46:31] Yeah, I was going to say, I was like, I look at this and I’m like, this looks like a science experiment. Like he’s got like stuff. Like it’s like, I don’t know what he’s. I mean, it’s, it’s very impressive. [00:46:41] Brett: [00:46:41] Yeah, I, uh, I want to try it. I told him he should sell this stuff. Uh, I. Yeah, well, we’ll see. We’ll see if I ever get my hands on. I used to buy black blood of the earth. Um, I can’t remember the guy’s name right now. Uh, he was on my podcast and I can’t remember his name, but [00:47:00] he did something similar and would sell this stuff by the, by the flask. [00:47:05] And, uh, it was first I first tried it at Macworld. Uh, do you remember the monk? Um, he’s a father now, but he was brother Gabriel at the time. And, uh, and he would walk around with a bottle of black blood of the earth and he let me try it. And it was so caffeinated, like it is the stiffest coffee you’ll ever drink. [00:47:30] Um, which is Casey night fangs goal is to increase caffeine while decreasing. He’s trying to replace energy drinks. And the thing with energy drinks is they work because you’re mixing caffeine with carbonation and sugar. It’s the same reason I bought the red bull works, caffeine, the sugar, and the KA carbonation increased the absorption into the bloodstream. [00:47:52] So to replace energy drinks, you need something highly caffeinated. And I, I think it looks like he’s going to do [00:48:00] it. [00:48:00]Christina: [00:48:00] Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I think you’re right. No, and I’m looking at this and just, I’m so impressed, like using lab equipment to brew coffee. I don’t have the patience for this. [00:48:10] Brett: [00:48:10] Yeah, me either. I, I, I don’t like to wait more than five minutes for my coffee, except in the case of Turkish coffee, I’ll wait 10 minutes. [00:48:19] Christina: [00:48:19] So for me, it’s not the waiting thing. Like that’s fine. It’s the setup. It’s the cleanup. It’s the whole thing. Like there would be too many moving parts that I’d be like, fuck this. Now I’m done. [00:48:27] Brett: [00:48:27] Well, also the, one of the things I like about coffee, no matter which process I’m using is that like the kind of ritual of, of the process. And I like to do it per cup, and it’s not really a ritual if you set it up at the beginning of the week and then you’re just drinking out of the fridge. [00:48:43] Christina: [00:48:43] Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. See, you’re right. Like, I don’t enjoy that ritual. So like for me, I wouldn’t do that for you. I could see how this would be somebody who would, even for you who loves the bridge. I think it was, they maybe, especially for you who loves the visual, like this would be, you would need to really love this particular ritual [00:49:00] of this process to do it. [00:49:02] Brett: [00:49:02] Yeah. Anyway. [00:49:03] Christina: [00:49:03] cause it’s a lot, but I’m very impressed. Like productized, this, sell this, like for real. Cause if people, people like, like he, he, he should totally productize and sell this cause people get crazy about their coffee. So Casey night thing, like make, I don’t know, like we’ll help you. We’ll help you build a splashy website that [00:49:26] Brett: [00:49:26] write a jingle for you. [00:49:28] Christina: [00:49:28] yeah. [00:49:28] Brett: [00:49:28] my God. I just realized that I don’t mean to take you out of the moment, but Zyvox is at the beginning of this show when it goes tired. So tired. That’s Zar [00:49:41] Christina: [00:49:41] Oh my God. Holy shit. [00:49:44] Brett: [00:49:44] Yeah. I love him so much. I made him part of our, our donut [00:49:48]Christina: [00:49:48] I love that. No, and I, I definitely have heard those are box please. Yeah, that’s so good. No, we, we can make them, but yeah, we help them. The website, jingle, bummed. I’m serious. Like this could be one of those [00:50:00] things where you just like, find like a, a mass supplier, a place to like drop shit, like drop ship, ladder equipment, and then you don’t even have to like, carry the inventory like Casey. [00:50:09] And I think like you could do this just. Come up with some sort of name like Bulletproof coffee, but you know, not that, but something like that. [00:50:18] Brett: [00:50:18] Yeah. [00:50:18] Christina: [00:50:18] that’s a real thing. [00:50:20] Brett: [00:50:20] death wish Odin force is it? I assume that’s like a brand of coffee, but that seems like a great kind of, uh, uh, a bar set for naming it. [00:50:33] Christina: [00:50:33] Yeah. I would agree with that. I mean, he, he could also just call it like overtired coffee, but, um, [00:50:39] Brett: [00:50:39] Ooh. I would, I would offer our branding for that. [00:50:41] Christina: [00:50:41] I would too. This is what I’m saying. Like I would, it would work and it also like our album art, like as coffee beans. So the whole thing works. [00:50:50] Brett: [00:50:50] Um, man, with on the bottle, it would say get some sleep, Christina, and then on the back it would say, get some sleep, Brett. [00:50:56] Christina: [00:50:56] Yes, [00:50:57]Brett: [00:50:57] And then it would say, no, [00:51:00] because this is coffee that will kill you. This is a heart attack waiting to happen. Yeah. W w we really haven’t taken advantage of all the money we can make on selling our branding rights. [00:51:11]Christina: [00:51:11] And, and this is a problem. So Casey and I think, um, you could get into the ground floor. No, but also seriously, this, that looks amazing. And I’m very happy that, uh, you shared that with us. [00:51:21]Brett: [00:51:21] Have you ever used a S D F [00:51:24]so you’ve used like, Uh, PI Enver RBN or RVM like version managers. [00:51:32] Christina: [00:51:32] Yes, I did actually just add this to my, to my GitHub stars though, but I have not used ASD if I want to do to talk about it. [00:51:38] Brett: [00:51:38] Yeah. So it it’s basically, uh, it, it strives to be an all purpose environment, uh, like version manager. So with something like RVM, you can, you can have like four different versions of Ruby and cell or [00:51:52] Christina: [00:51:52] Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I use MBM all the [00:51:55] Brett: [00:51:55] Yeah. And then like per project, you it’s, it’s like little containers [00:52:00] and you can have different environments per project. [00:52:03] Uh, ASD F combines all of the version management. So you have, uh, Python and node and Ruby, and even like utilities like F ZF. If you need to use multiple versions of certain utilities, they have plugins. And because it’s all plugin based, you can add. Basically Virgin management for anything. I have, I switched over to it. [00:52:28] I miss some things about RVM. Um, like RVM had a use command where I could type RVM use. Three.zero.zero. And I could temporarily use Ruby. Uh, you have to actually, if you type, uh, ASD F local Ruby 3.0, it will actually write 3.0 to your dot file in the current folder, and then you’ll be using it. But to change it back, you have to run local again. [00:52:58] And I, I [00:53:00] ju that’s just a minor inconvenience. So overall, uh, I have had great luck with SDF. [00:53:06]Christina: [00:53:06] Okay, I’m going to try this because yeah, I’ve used and I’ve used, uh, MBM and I don’t, I don’t really do anything in Ruby, but when I have before I’ve used, you know, RBN um, too. So no, I love this because this does actually solve. The problem, which is having to deal with a bunch of different version managers like, like note for instance, is a classic one. [00:53:28] Like the best way to install node to be totally honest is to install NVM because otherwise it gets too complicated. And, but then there’s like, notice like there, there are competing forms of node, version management and whatnot. Um, I use NPM, [00:53:44] Brett: [00:53:44] prior, prior to ASD F I was just using brew link and I would install like specific versions of brew, uh, node through brew, and then just brew link node at 10 note at 11, it was not elegant though. [00:53:59][00:54:00] Christina: [00:53:59] no elegant. And that’s not even officially supported by node. Like node is pretty clear that like, they don’t want you using Homebrew and in the M is actually very clear that you do not use Homebrew with MBN. Like you need to install that from, from, you know, from their own like curler or WCAB or whatever. [00:54:15] Um, but, uh, I, I don’t know is his ASD is on homebrewers at a similar thing where you need to like install it directly from it’s from its get repo, which is fine. [00:54:24] Brett: [00:54:24] brew brew, search a S D F. Um, I, this is dead air while we wait for Bruce search to work, this is the longest it’s ever taken. It knows I’m recording. Yes, it’s on brew. [00:54:40] Christina: [00:54:40] Okay. Okay, cool. But yeah, I know. That’s uh, that’s awesome. So, yeah, cause I tell you added that. I added that to my stars, which actually on that note, I overtired pod.com. My stars are now available. [00:54:51] Brett: [00:54:51] Yeah, you’re welcome. Um, [00:54:53] Christina: [00:54:53] Thank you. Thank [00:54:54] Brett: [00:54:54] we talked about it like ages ago, how Christina has great get hubs [00:55:00] stars and, uh, and I thought. Wouldn’t it be fun to, uh, bring them in, have a list of Christina’s current stars on our site? I not sure it’s properly updating because it still says tweet shot was your most recent star. [00:55:17] Christina: [00:55:17] Oh, that is not. That is not [00:55:18] Brett: [00:55:18] So I need to go in and figure out if it’s cashing these too hard. Um, in fact, that’s probably exactly what it’s doing is cashing them, but, um, yeah. So if you ever want to know what’s cool in the get hub world, overtired pod.com can be your central hub for, for the latest and greatest curated by our own Christina Warren. [00:55:42] Christina: [00:55:42] Indeed indeed. Um, and, and to beat shot is cool. It’s not exactly what I wanted it to do, but it comes close enough. There was like a web app that somebody had built. That was really perfect. So occasionally what happens is I would need to take screenshots of tweets, but. I really wanted an a 16 by nine [00:56:00] format where the tweet is captured well, and then it’s put on top of like a, a nice looking background and then I can use it, um, basically as like a screen for, um, like, uh, when I’m doing like a news update thing. [00:56:13] Like, this is basically for my show that I do this week on channel nine, um, Twitter, something which Twitter changed and the person who wrote the web app. As an updated it and it doesn’t work. And unfortunately he never put it on GitHub. So I knew he was using selenium and he was doing some other stuff, but he never put what he was doing. [00:56:29] I’d get up. And I’d reached out to him, like when I first discovered the project to thank him for it and ask, Hey, do you have a source or whatever, never responded. And so there are a number of different, like tweet libraries, that’ll create capture stuff, but none of them to be exactly what I want. So I’m probably going to have to build something. [00:56:47] But, um, but tweet shot is actually kind of cool cause it’s a, it it’s a Mac app that you basically, you know, um, can build like a node Mac app, and basically you enter in a URL and it’ll [00:57:00] do a pretty good job of taking like, you know, um, a screenshot, um, from Twitter and darker light mode and, and saving that file. [00:57:08] So that’s what that is. [00:57:09] Brett: [00:57:09] I’m going to have to go in. I like, I wrote this as, or I actually, I ripped off another plugin and hacked it to show your stars. Now I have to figure out why it’s not updating. Why did it work once? And then stop. That’s the question. I’ll figure it out. I always figure it out. That’s what I do. Um, all right. [00:57:28] Well, I feel like that was, that was an appropriately ADHD, uh, post vaccination episode of, over-tired not like, not like classic crazy over, but it it’ll work. It’ll do. [00:57:43] Christina: [00:57:43] It’ll do, and we’re really, we got up her shot. So if, hopefully you out there are close to getting a shot and, uh, congrats and, and fingers costs for everybody wherever you are in the world. That you know, this is all starting to SOLs all feeling like it’s coming to [00:58:00] an end. Finally. [00:58:00] Brett: [00:58:00] Um, finally I’m I am so close now to getting back to my normal of making out with strangers and crowded nightclubs. [00:58:07] Christina: [00:58:07] Hell yeah, me too. [00:58:09] Brett: [00:58:09] Totally. All right, we’ll get some, get some sleep, Christina. [00:58:14] Christina: [00:58:14] Get some sleep Brett.

Get nerdy with us about dotfiles and text editors and we’ll throw in some Elon Musk bashing just for the ratings. Sponsor Ritual is a scientifically developed and tested multivitamin delivered to you monthly. Start your Ritual today and save 10% on your first 3 months at ritual.com/OVERTIRED. Headspace: Find some peace of mind during stressful times with Headspace: mindful meditations, sleep stories, and focus soundtracks to get you through your day (and night). Visit Headspace.com/Overtired for a free one-month trial. Show Links KBD67 Lite – KBDfans® Mechanical Keyboards Store Brewfile: a Gemfile but for Homebrew DotBot Mackup TextBuddy Billie Eilish: The World’s a Little Blurry Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Christina Christina: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] [00:00:02] You you’re listening to over tired. I’m Christina Warren. He’s Brett Terpstra. Our show is up late this week because it’s my fault. But, uh, how are you doing [00:00:13] Brett: [00:00:13] Well, let’s be let’s. I’m good. It, so the first day we push, we’re supposed to record on Tuesday and I was just not in the mood. like, [00:00:22] Christina: [00:00:22] I wasn’t either. [00:00:23] Brett: [00:00:23] we plan for Tuesdays because it gives us a day that we can push and still get up on time. So I was just like, Hey, let’s do our favorite thing and flake on something. [00:00:33] And we agreed. And then the next day came around and you were having a rough day. And then the next day came around and I hadn’t slept all night. And here we are today. [00:00:47] Christina: [00:00:47] And here we are today. Exactly. And I took today off. So because we got like, They gave us, they gave us these five, like mental health days, in addition to our like sick time and vacation, which is [00:01:00] really, really kind of them. The only, only thing is, is that you have to take them by a certain time. And they don’t, um, like count as official vacation or sick days or whatever, because that means that they don’t have to pay for them. [00:01:16] Um, which incidentally is like the whole scam of unlimited vacation. Like companies that go like oh we give unlimited vacation. It’s like, no, you, you know that people aren’t going to take more than what the normal allotted amount is. And this just prevents you from having to pay out vacation time when they leave Like that’s all it is It’s such a scam Netflix started it but it’s such a scam [00:01:36] So [00:01:36] Brett: [00:01:36] has unlimited vacation And I was curious how that would work how how it will play out [00:01:41] Christina: [00:01:41] Yeah So it’s it’s not terrible Right The only thing that’s terrible about it is that when you leave Oracle you won’t get your payout So like if I were to leave Microsoft tomorrow I have three weeks plus of of like okay so they let you carry over up to three weeks a year or something um like [00:02:00] 120 hours And after that if you have too much that you’re bringing over they’re like screw you Although I think in California they can’t do that but in other States they can uh and then you earn three weeks a year like over the course of things So I’ve got like a month plus a vacation So if I were to leave tomorrow they would have to pay me for that But if I worked at a place that had unlimited vacation then when I left it’d be like see ya So [00:02:26] Brett: [00:02:26] I see I see I see how it works now I still like the idea of like if I get my stuff done I can just take you time. Although I can’t see myself never in my life have I actually used all my available available vacation days. [00:02:41] Christina: [00:02:41] Me either. W w which is like, it’s such an American thing. Like, honestly, like we’re 100%, it comes from a puritanical roots, I think, because, you know, like there’s the whole, like, work equals like closer to Godness or whatever. Like genuinely, I, [00:03:00] this is like, comes, it comes all, comes from matching. Because if you look at Europe, I mean, there are parts of Asia that are obviously hardworking, um, overworked, similar to where we are Japan, for instance, although not Asian, not all Asian countries, but like, you look at Europe, Europe, they’re like, yeah, we get drunk in the afternoon and we take holiday and it’s a known thing. [00:03:19] And like, if you don’t give people, like everybody in Europe gets like six weeks of vacation a year, you know, it’s [00:03:24] Brett: [00:03:24] And their maternity leave is crazy in most countries. Like you can, you can basically get a year of like paid leave if you have a kid, like yeah. That stuff is so foreign to us. We’re so obsessed with work here. [00:03:37] Christina: [00:03:37] We are so obsessed with work. Yeah. It’s like, huh? I wonder why we all die. So, so young, why were also overweight? Like, I mean, not you and I, but like [00:03:48] Brett: [00:03:48] Oh, I’m overweight. It’s okay. I gained it. I gained it back. Not all of it, but I, yeah, no, I’m cool with it. I understand how bodies work anyway. [00:04:00] Yes. Vacation. Uh, we don’t use it. Uh, America is overworked. Uh, [00:04:07] Christina: [00:04:07] anyway, but yeah, I took today off, so I was just like, yep, we’re going to do this. And then I might go at my, go to sleep after we do this. I might not. It just depends. I was just like, yeah. I mean, I just got a new keyboard that I want to put together. I’m just going to have a good long weekend. So, [00:04:21] Brett: [00:04:21] So tell me about your new keyboard. [00:04:24] Christina: [00:04:24] well, first we want to do a breast mental health corner update. [00:04:26] Brett: [00:04:26] Oh, geez. Yeah. Oh, okay. So. Uh, I take this stuff called Saphris uh, it’s an anti-psychotic, um, which is like, I don’t know what that exactly means. Uh, like half the drugs I take are anti-psychotics and I don’t exactly have any psychosis in my diagnosis. Ooh, psychosis, diagnosis, band name, write that down. Um, but anyway, it, I take it. [00:04:56] It’s one of those, it melts under your tongue. We’ve talked about it once before. Um, and [00:05:00] they upped it by two and a half milligrams. So now I take 17 and a half milligrams of Saphris and that two and a half milligrams seems to have made a big difference. Like my, my mood swings have been way milder and way shorter, and I haven’t had any real depression to speak of for over a month. [00:05:18] So mentally health-wise, other than one night of bad sleep, I’m doing pretty damn good. How are you? [00:05:26] Christina: [00:05:26] Um, I’m doing okay. I’m doing okay. I mean, I took a mental health day, uh, and I had, um, kind of a panic attack the other day, but like, that’s just, I think situational, but otherwise I’m okay. [00:05:38] Brett: [00:05:38] So panic attacks are usually stress-related. Are you stressed? Yeah. Is your job stressful? [00:05:46]Christina: [00:05:46] I don’t want to get into it, but yeah, there were some changes that happened recently, which are fine. Like I’m okay. Everything’s okay. It’s just, there was some unexpected stuff that has happened and, and it just, yeah, it leads stress. [00:05:57] Brett: [00:05:57] wasn’t asking for details. I was just curious if it was work [00:06:00] related or personal, [00:06:02] Christina: [00:06:02] Yeah, no. In this case I think it was well in,ande, this is the fucked thing. [00:06:05] This is the fucked thing about America. It’s like where’s the line. Right. [00:06:07] Okay [00:06:08] Brett: [00:06:08] right? Sure. Um, how ha’how has the, how are the Elon Musk fan boys doing? [00:06:15] Christina: [00:06:15] Oh yeah. Great, great. Uh, great question. So, yeah, so right as we recorded this, um, I made an innocuous. To me quit because Elon Musk decided to get in a fight with the The Onion today. he, cause he’s a fucking idiot. He was very offended that they like made an article about like, um, billionaires and how they became rich. [00:06:38] And for him, they listed Texas apartheid he, which is, it was just hilarious. Right. And then he got really mad cause he’s like, yeah, just because I’m from South Africa. And just because my dad’s rich doesn’t mean that like I was, you know, a beneficiary of apartheid. I came here with only $2,500 and dah, dah, dah, dah, like you went on this whole like explanatory thing. [00:06:58] It’s like, dude, no one [00:07:00] cares also. It was a joke. and so, so I, I quote tweeted something like, um, Maybe Elon Musk should, um, hire away the staff of the onion to start his own satirical publication and then lose interest and stop funding the project, uh, before it even launches. Um, Oh wait, he already did that because that is actually a thing that he did. [00:07:24] Um, and, um, and then somebody responded to that, uh, uh, usual follower of mine and he was like, Oh, Elon Musk was also telling people to read the Babylon bee instead. And, and the guy was like, the Babylon bee is, is like, you know, um, trans and, and homophobic and whatnot. And, and you know, it is, and it’s like, it, it, like, it goes beyond, in my opinion, like the line where you’re like, Oh, this is satire. [00:07:46] It’s like, if you’re being satirical, but you’re also making very clearly like homophobic and transphobic sorts of things. Like, I don’t think that the, you know, guys, Oh, this is a joke gets to cover you. Like, you can [00:08:00] be satirical and also be racist or, or whatever, like, you know, so, um, I retweeted that and that apparently I guess, cause cause he has fanboys who literally search his name. [00:08:12] Cause I didn’t @ him or anything. I didn’t, I didn’t do that. Um, who literally search his name and I guess look for people with blue check marks because then, um, first, uh, Jeremiah started getting a shit ton of just like angry responses. And then I started getting some and so some guy was like, a reporter and podcast hosts thinks that, you know, um, criticizes Elon Musk and he’s done all these things and I responded to them and I’m like, and software developer, but thanks. [00:08:37] And then he’s like, and I’m like, he’s not going to fuck you, Elon is not fuck you Um and then I tweeted something that directly said that you know a friend of mine was getting you know tons of anger replies and that um newsflash like Elon Musk is not going to fuck you Uh which admittedly completely kicking the hornet’s nest I I’m aware [00:08:58] Brett: [00:08:58] I mean these are trolls to begin [00:09:00] with and you’re [00:09:00] Christina: [00:09:00] 100% but also he’s not going to fuck you Like I I’m not And I tweeted this too cause I’m I genuinely feel this Like I don’t want to kink shame anybody but simping for a billionaire is fucking weird [00:09:14] Brett: [00:09:14] So here’s here’s the here’s where this leads me And and I feel like this could be the the overriding theme for our show How good do you think Elon Musk is in bed No not how Okay That was a leading question How do you think Elon Musk is in bed Think So? I think it would be weird and weird can be like weird can be good but I feel like it would be half ass weird [00:09:40] Christina: [00:09:40] Yeah here’s the thing like I’m not saying he’s like the worst lay ever Um but I don’t think that he’s good I think here’s actually here’s what I think I think he’s a very selfish lover right Like I don’t think he gives a shit about whether his partner comes or not I think he’s all about he gets off and then she can either maybe she gets off or maybe like [00:10:00] she has to use a vibrator Like I don’t think he actually cares though [00:10:02] Brett: [00:10:02] But bet it would be a super fancy vibrator [00:10:05] Christina: [00:10:05] Totally Which you know what That might make it great But I I like, honestly, I mean, maybe that maybe that’s what makes it work, but like, I mean, look, the dude had to get hair plugs after he was a billionaire to be able to, to be able to fuck women. [00:10:21] So, um, [00:10:24] Brett: [00:10:24] plugs. I didn’t realize [00:10:25] Christina: [00:10:25] Yeah. Yeah. Like, like he, like, he has the same plugs that, uh, what’s his face. Um, Jeremy Piven has, um, it’s, they’re quite good. Um, whatever his transplant or plugs situation was like, it’s, it’s quite good. yeah he was he was like bald And then he was with this woman who was like with him when he was nobody And then he left her for the nanny I think And then he left the nanny for somebody else Then he went back to the nanny they had a very messy divorce And um after the messy divorce they got back together and had another messy breakup Then he was with Amber heard [00:11:00] and then and now he’s with Grimes And so all I’m saying is is that other than like the first Wife who was clearly like loved him and like he you know fucked over um because he was rich when they got divorced but he wasn’t like rich like he is now And like you know she had some of his his first kids or whatever Um all of the subsequent like much hotter women have only come after He’s been both rich and had to get hair plugs And like to me if you have to alter like it’s so it’s not a thing where he can just like okay you’re rich And you can like get somebody to you know marry you or or sleep with you or whatever Like if you have to also alter your appearance that suggests to me that like you’re either not as much of like you’re not as you don’t spend as much or whatever And and you’re not able to find people who would just suck it up or you’re like a fairly selfish like self-involved like person who [00:11:57] Brett: [00:11:57] Well absolutely he’s a total [00:12:00] narcissist that’s clear from every interview he does. [00:12:03] Christina: [00:12:03] Oh, yeah, no. So he used to follow the Gizmodo Twitter account. And so we used to DM him and he would do like interviews with us sometimes. [00:12:10] And, um, it was interesting because we’d be pretty combative with him and I have to give him credit. He was, he would answer questions back. Um, it got to the point, I think we were too combative and we wrote too many stories about our DM conversations with him, where he was like, I’m not doing this anymore. [00:12:24] But, um, I did, I have to genuinely say, like, I appreciated that about him. Cause most people, uh, have better things to do than like get into arguments with reporters. You know, like, especially if they’re as rich as him and if they’re allegedly so smart and important and doing all these amazing, amazing things and saving humanity as, as his fanboys want us to believe, like maybe you should, maybe you should not be like engaging with like people at Gawker. [00:12:57] All I’m saying like, I don’t [00:12:58] Brett: [00:12:58] it sounds like a hobby, [00:13:00] [00:13:00] Christina: [00:13:00] I mean, totally. And. [00:13:01] Brett: [00:13:01] When don’t really need the exposure at all [00:13:06] Christina: [00:13:06] It’s a hobby And it’s also I mean I I’m not I can’t even pretend like I don’t appreciate it cause I’m what am I doing right now I’m I’m spending time on our podcast talking about how I’m purposefully trolling his fans I didn’t set out to to get like people like all of them I mentioned and all up in my friends mentioned about shit like that Wasn’t my intention Um I didn’t if I if I’d added him that would have been that I didn’t but um you know but once they started I was like okay well now I just want to fuck with you because you’re symping for a billionaire and that’s weird and hilarious to me [00:13:40] Brett: [00:13:40] So if I title this episode Elon Musk and the very fancy vibrator do you think we’ll get a whole bunch of new very angry fans [00:13:47] Christina: [00:13:47] Oh God I hope so Subscribe or follow our podcast We’re not supposed to subscribe follow our podcasts Um yeah [00:13:55] Brett: [00:13:55] Yeah So back to your keyboard tell me about this this new keyboard [00:14:00] kit [00:14:00] Christina: [00:14:00] Yeah Okay So my friend Charles tan who is a big fan of of um rocket on the other podcast that I do is amazing He was actually planning this last year and before he even saw me saying that I was like wanting to get into mechanical keyboards So he’s the best but he ordered this kit for me from KBD fans uh when it was like a group buy And there’s actually a second group by open right now for a slight revision of this kit But this is the the KBD67 Lite And it’s um a hot swappable mechanical keyboard with RGB And um it it comes pre-assembled but you can completely take it apart and it has hotspot switches But if you uh you know if you you can take the whole it came like with the case and with the um uh the base plate the PCB the uh dampeners you know Um all that stuff then you just need to add whatever switches or cues you want um to it But um I’m super excited about it [00:15:00] Uh I’m he also sent me a bunch of switches He sent me some purple switches and some um um uh great pandas And um he sent me um a very nice um key cap uh set So it’s going to go amazingly with my my white PC that I just built because it’s it’s a white case and the key caps are white and I’m just super super excited [00:15:23] to [00:15:24] Brett: [00:15:24] on my version, one of the ultimate hacking keyboard, I, I did a white key cap set and I really liked it. I do like white key caps. [00:15:32]Christina: [00:15:32] Yeah. Yeah, but I’m super stoked about this because, you know, we were talking before and I, like, I also like mentioned this on Twitter that I’ve, um, wanted to, uh, like I started to kind of go down this rabbit hole of like the building, your own things and was nice about this kid is that it’s a relatively low price. [00:15:49] So like the one that’s available for group buy now it’s available for another couple of weeks and then it’ll ship at the end of may. Like it’s relatively inexpensive for kind of an entry level, you know, kit. Cause it comes with the [00:16:00] PCB and the spacers and the dampeners and the, um, the case and stuff. Um, but you have your own switches and keys and, and whatnot, um, and, uh, But, but it’s relatively inexpensive rebuilt who kind of want to enter into the hobby, but also want to have like the, they want to build it themselves, but they don’t want to have to, they don’t want us to solve her. [00:16:23] Right. So, uh, it’s kind of a nice kind of middle ground area for that, which is definitely me because I don’t have the patience to do the soldering of like a fully custom built. I just don’t, I don’t have the patience. I also don’t think that the soldering skill to be, um, completely honest, [00:16:42] Brett: [00:16:42] By the time you finished a keyboard, you’d have the skill, who knows what would happen on the way [00:16:47] Christina: [00:16:47] will Exactly I mean it’s one of those things like these components are so hard to get and they’re so expensive that you know we talked about this before that I um wanted um I can’t think um you know [00:17:00] I I wanted to look at how to um do this stuff and wanted to like look at like buying different you know parts and whatnot And it’s like Almost as difficult Okay Getting a graphics card right now is more difficult objectively but I think that on the whole like getting keyboard stuff is more difficult than getting PC parts Like it’s incredibly competitive and it’s incredibly difficult to find the stuff and cause it’s a niche hobby but it’s also growing and you know it’s it’s just uh like there are only a few manufacturers who do stop And so you have people who like the resellers who have who are popping up who will buy a bunch of the group buy things or do other stuff and be basically act as importers and then you know raise the prices And then you have like uh various subreddits that it’ll be like like you know max swap or whatever that’ll that’ll do certain things But um like if you want to get in on stuff it can be incredibly [00:18:00] difficult And it takes a while because You know most of the time that the only way these things happen is is in group buys I’ve learned so much just in the last couple of months just like going down the rabbit hole of this But Charles apparently knew me before I even knew myself because he placed the order on black Friday And then it took him a while to to wait for some of the other things to get in and and he mailed it to me and I got it um the other day And I’m so excited to build it into to play with it [00:18:27] Brett: [00:18:27] Um I’m looking at the key diagram is it It’s not programmable right It is Okay Because in the in the key cap layout they have there’s a page up page down and an end key but no home key Why why would you not have a home [00:18:42] Christina: [00:18:42] No no Cause um any you could use alts right Like like use all things Yeah It um no uses QM K and um via so is it’s fully programmable [00:18:51] Brett: [00:18:51] Also who uses page up and page down Have you ever used those keys Yeah me either I don’t They always when I accidentally hit them they [00:19:00] surprise me like where did my screen go anyway [00:19:04] Christina: [00:19:04] Yeah no So so it’s programmable um using um whatever the firmware and what are the other things are And um yeah I’m excited. Thank you. Thank you. How’s uh, how’s the, um, ultimate hacking keyboard to treating you. [00:19:20] Brett: [00:19:20] Overall, it’s a dream. I love it. It’s great. But I lost my right bracket, right. Curly bracket key. Like I have to hit it three or four times before it registers and then sometimes it’ll register twice. So, uh, this is most apparent. Like, I mean, obviously it’s apparent when I’m coding and I need to close a bracket, but I use uh command shift bracket, keys for tabs and just about every app. [00:19:45] And if an app doesn’t support that I reprogram it to because that’s my, that’s how I switch tabs. And now I can only move to the left. I can’t move to the right. And it’s, it’s, it’s driving me nuts. I have a, I have an email into Laszlo to find out how I [00:20:00] fix this, but that is a bad key to lose. Eh, there’s no good key to lose, but anyway, it’s overall. [00:20:07] It’s great. It does have, like, I probably shouldn’t publicly talk about the beta, but it has this funny bug where the RGB backlighting sometimes goes a little bit crazy and like keys, just alternate different colors. And then if you, if you engage the mouse layer and nudge the mouse, just one pixel, it goes back to the correct lighting. [00:20:29] So we’re working on that and the a, and the GitHub forums right now, but it’s fun. I like beta testing. [00:20:37] Christina: [00:20:37] Yeah, no, I do too. I do too. It’s it’s a, it’s a fun process and you’re the ultimate perfect beta test or like no one could be any better than you because you, um, get really, really into stuff. Like this is like the part of your ADHD, which lets you like hyper focus on things. You are pay attention to detail and then you’re technical enough to like try all the shit. [00:21:00] [00:21:00] So like you find the edge cases. [00:21:01] Brett: [00:21:01] Yeah. Um, speaking of, Nope, can’t do it yet. Um, you know what I got hyper-focused on, uh, over the last couple of days, uh, scripting a clean install. [00:21:15] Christina: [00:21:15] Oh, nice. [00:21:16] Brett: [00:21:16] And I don’t even plan to do a clean install, but a friend of mine, uh, uh, Jeff Severns Guntzel, I don’t know if you know him, but he’s awesome. Um, he has been, uh, he took a course in dot files. [00:21:28] He’s like, he’s, he’s kind of like relearning command line stuff and like really diving into, uh, scripting and, and we’ll say, uh, dot files specifically right now. And, uh, he, he keeps sharing these cool dot file repos with me that made me realize I I’ve never organized my dot files. Like I have most of them sync through mackup back up, but, uh, but having repo and an install script using dotbot, [00:22:00] I, I like completely reorganized everything. [00:22:03] And now I can do a get pull on any machine and have my dot files all in place. It’s uh, it’s cool. And then I went like nuts with it. And do you know what a brew file is? I had just learned. So for anyone who doesn’t know, I like I didn’t two days ago, uh, if you’re a familiar with a gem and bundler brew file is basically bundler for home brew and you can create a, a file that has like abbreviated commands for installing any, uh, any cask or any formula, and then just run brew, bundle. [00:22:40] And it’ll, re-install everything in your file. So whenever you install something new from brew, you can just add it to your brew file. And in the future, you’ll be able to replicate your setup [00:22:50] Christina: [00:22:50] Yeah, I’ve, I’ve done that. Um, I need to update it, but I’ve used both, um, the, um, um, the dotbot and I’ve used before. I think I [00:23:00] found them because can’t remember the guy’s last name is Matthias, who has like the default, like macOS um, uh, that guy who kind of maintains that thing that’s kind of considered like the you know [00:23:12] Brett: [00:23:12] for [00:23:13] Christina: [00:23:13] the gold standard. [00:23:13] Exactly. Precisely. So like, if you’re going to do like, like an Ansible or brew file or whatever, sort of, kind of, kind of like automated, like install thing, like his is the one to go through and, um, I, I wasted a ton of time last year, going down the similar rabbit hole that you went through and now I’m going to need to, I need to do it again because, um, some stuff in my, my setup or whatever has changed also, it’s just fun. [00:23:38] But, uh, I love that and yeah, I, I use, um, I went through a similar thing, I guess it was about 18 months ago where I finally like sat down and like, got my dot files organized. They’re not public. I should probably make them public, but I feel self-conscious about them. Um, but I, I use like the dotbot to basically, [00:24:00] you know, make it so that I can go on any machine and, and have access to it. [00:24:06] Brett: [00:24:06] Be being made public. Um, there’s a subsection of them that I’d be happy to make public, but they’re also not anything special and everything that’s special is very personalized and I just don’t feel like it’s uh for public consumption, but have you ever used Mackup? [00:24:22]It’s [00:24:23] Christina: [00:24:23] I, [00:24:23] Brett: [00:24:23] okay. It’s a, a brew You can install it through home brew and you run up backup and it it has like a hundred some different applications that it works with and it’ll move all of the preference files [00:24:39] and [00:24:39] Christina: [00:24:39] yeah [00:24:40] Brett: [00:24:40] uh configuration directories into your Dropbox and then SIM link them back so that in the future on a new machine you can type Mac up restore and it’ll just symlink them all from the Dropbox [00:24:53] Christina: [00:24:53] Yes I I’m aware of that I might’ve used it years ago I haven’t used it in recent years I think that what [00:25:00] happened in in it might be have been resolved Now the problem I’ve found is that macOS has changed where a lot of file like a lot of applications have changed where they stored like their their um preferences and like plist files like they’re all now within these containers within these other things And that makes it difficult to do Or at least it might be different now but I remember running into issues where stuff that had worked suddenly didn’t work And then when I tried to do a restore like the directory name will be different or be some other weird thing and it would break [00:25:35] Brett: [00:25:35] here’s [00:25:36] Christina: [00:25:36] why I stopped [00:25:36] Brett: [00:25:36] The problem with mackup is exactly that like the first time you run the backup and you run and restore and under the machine it works great but things do drift over time and mackup keeps coming out with new versions that that keep up with this stuff But once you’ve run a backup you can’t easily back up You can’t update the backup like it it doesn’t selectively [00:26:00] uh go through and just update the things that change you have to like basically uninstall mackup, restore everything back to its original directories and then do the backup again And that sucks [00:26:11] Christina: [00:26:11] Okay Yeah Yeah Um that that’s now making sense I’m now remembering why And I don’t even think that when I was I don’t even think even got to that point where I was like okay I can uninstall restore re-install and do it I think I got to the place where like a broke a couple of things one time And it was one of those things where the process of having to kind of like get myself out of that hole was annoying enough that I was like all right I’m just not going to use this anymore But the idea is awesome [00:26:39] Brett: [00:26:39] Anytime you’re dealing with like SIM links all over your drive you you you’re you’re you’re asking for a certain amount of trouble [00:26:47] Christina: [00:26:47] You are Yeah That’s the thing too Like there were certain applications and certain things I do but at this point This is actually why I kind of prefer when an app will work with iCloud because you know to to sync [00:27:00] a preference file something like that, to me is the ideal thing, even though it’s maybe not the most, you know, preferable thing, like I, I actually would prefer them to have the way that it used to work before, but yes, symlinks are too, there’s like too much of a chance of breakage. [00:27:18] Um, so I don’t know if it’s got to the point that they’re in the, or I either want the application itself to be able to do like a backup thing. Like, um, VSCode has a setting sync built into it now, but there was also for, for many years and I think it still exists. I’m not sure what the state of it being updated is, you know, but there was like an extension that would basically take your, um, uh, preferences file and uploaded as a, um, uh, Private just in GitHub and then you could go and, um, use the, uh, extension to download, um, the content of that just, and inhabit replaced, or append your vs code preferences file. [00:27:58] Uh, which [00:28:00] is awesome. And, and I had a couple of different variants, like one for work, one for home, like one for [00:28:04] Brett: [00:28:04] Oh profiles. [00:28:06] Christina: [00:28:06] Yeah. Pro basically. Right. And you could set, you can create profiles and, in VScode, but like, I, I made it with setting sync because for me, I didn’t want like workspaces, which are different. [00:28:15] Um, but, um, now it’s something that like, they’ve got built into VS code and, and they’re working at and kind of options like to, you know, uh, and it’s gotten pretty good about being able to figure out, like, if you’re using an extension that doesn’t work on one operating system or whatever, like how to handle complex like that. [00:28:33] Uh, and that’s built in, and, and I think that way that it works is fairly similar, but it doesn’t in the background. Like you don’t actually need to connect it to a GitHub account. You just log in with, like, you can log in with your GitHub account or, or, or a Microsoft account, but like, you don’t have to connect it to your own personal GitHub where it like, has the gist there it’s, it’s doing it. [00:28:52] Um, uh, server side, um, you know, uh, vs code side with some people might not like, but for me, I don’t care. Like I [00:29:00] work at Microsoft, so I’m like, whatever. Um, but I, but I understand some people might not like that, which is why it’s nice that like the other extension is an option, but that’s kind of where I’ve gone, where fortunately, most of the applications that I customized heavily have a way for me to like, have some sort of cloud based thing, but, um, yeah, but mackup is cool. [00:29:24] Brett: [00:29:24] Have you ever, okay. No. Okay. Let me restart my question with completely different words, because it was the wrong question. Um, so you have insisted to me previously that services work in vs code. They do not, [00:29:41] Christina: [00:29:41] Okay. [00:29:42] Brett: [00:29:42] and it’s not a deal breaker for me, but I, so I just, yesterday, uh, I was working with Jeff actually, and he was, he he’s very good at meticulously commenting. [00:29:55] Uh, what he’s doing so he can remember and learn from it. And one of the [00:30:00] formats of comments he really liked was, uh, if you have a, uh, command, uh, like from the command line that has a bunch of flags and switches in it, uh, if you put it into a script file and then it uses like Andy line drawing to like draw a diagram, basically, and like a line down from each letter in the switch and then a right turn to add a comment and it looks pretty cool and I looked at it and thought that would be such a pain to type out. [00:30:33] And, uh, so I wrote a service that you can select any command line command, and it will generate the structure of all the line drawings. And then you can just fill in the comment each flag. It’s cool, but it only looks really good in vs code. Uh, partly so in sublime, I have a gremlin detector that puts an exclamation point behind any [00:31:00] like non, regular ASCII character. [00:31:04] And that throws off the formatting in my other apps, all my comments turn italics which throws off line drawings, but vs code with whatever font settings I have in there, it looks great. So I use that for all my screenshots, but I couldn’t run the service in vs code. This how came up. [00:31:26] Christina: [00:31:26] Okay. Cause I, it has worked for certain services for me before, like, and I’m even testing it right now. So it [00:31:33] Brett: [00:31:33] Any, anything that acts on text. If you select text, there’s nothing in the right click menu. And if you go up to the top menu and pull down the vs code menu under services, it’ll only have services that don’t run on selected text. I would like you to bring this up with your, your, your masters, [00:31:53] Christina: [00:31:53] Yeah. Yeah, I will. You can also file a PR on GitHub [00:31:56] Brett: [00:31:56] because they do work in sublime. So I know [00:32:00] it’s, it’s possible for non native apps to [00:32:02] Christina: [00:32:02] no, totally well well, okay. Well, okay. But case in point, cause this is why I was confused. It must be selecting text thing because I just go to services and I used one of your services that the MD links. [00:32:12] Brett: [00:32:12] Yeah. And like anything pulls externally and insert text does work, but nothing that operates on text, speaking of operating on text, have you ever, have you seen text buddy? [00:32:25] Christina: [00:32:25] No, I haven’t. [00:32:26] Brett: [00:32:26] Uh, full disclosure text buddy is sponsoring my blog this week and it’s made by a friend of mine, Tyler Hall, but it’s this app, uh, there’s another one called boop that you may have seen, but, uh, it’s an app that basically gives you a pallet of hundreds of text transformations, uh, anything from, you know, changing case to title casing, to, uh, it has a comment wrap feature that I requested and he kindly added. [00:32:53] So if you have a really long comment, uh, like code, you know, starting with slash slash or with, uh, a hash, [00:33:00] uh, you can wrap it and it will uh, extend the comment. Uh, you know what I mean? Like in the middle it’ll start line with the comment marker [00:33:11] Christina: [00:33:11] Exactly No no no I get what you’re saying Oh that’s awesome So it’s kind of it’s kind of like techTextSbut just for like text [00:33:17] Brett: [00:33:17] Yes And then you can you just hit command T you get a pallet of like every possible command And and and run it and then you can automatically copy your clipboard and you can paste it back into whatever you’re working on And can pick up system services if you there’s a secret setting for it But all of them like search link and everything I could run from in text buddy it’s and it has its own like scripting lang Uh it uses JavaScript but you can add your own scripts to it to do any transformations it doesn’t already do It’s super cool I highly recommend it [00:33:48] Christina: [00:33:48] That’s awesome Uh TextBuddy Okay So it seems like that could you could use that as your workaround for for getting your thing to work within VS code to be pretty the way you would want [00:33:56] it to be [00:33:57] Brett: [00:33:57] except for the way that I like to use text [00:34:00] buddy is with its system service that takes your selected text and loads it in text putty automatically [00:34:06] Christina: [00:34:06] okay Okay So I’m going to say you should file a PR about or look to see if anybody is working on it and GitHub Um I’ll I’ll make a note to myself to try to look it up too but see if you can make a note to see like to at least make people aware that like cause it seems like that should be something that they should be able to support work And I would also feel like the it would be a useful thing Um people would want to [00:34:31] Brett: [00:34:31] So I have a GitHub question for you, but first speaking of missing features, do you have gaps in your diet that could be solved by a multivitamin? I have the perfect sponsor for you. [00:34:45] Christina: [00:34:45] Oh my God. Tell me all about it. [00:34:47] Brett: [00:34:47] This episode is brought to you by ritual, a complete multivitamin that could gets delivered conveniently to your door every month. [00:34:54] Did you know that typical multivitamins often contain sugar, synthetic fillers artificial. Colorants [00:35:00] not to mention animal byproducts like sheep’s wool and gelatin from hoods and hides. Ritual. Isn’t your typical multivitamin ritual is clean. Vegan-friendly formula is made with key nutrients informs your body can actually use without all those less than desirable extras. [00:35:16] The convenience of ritual is the key. My vitamins show up at my door without me having to think about it. Place frequent orders or God forbid, leave the house. Once you get into the groove a ritual, if you will, uh, popping two at whatever time of day works for you, gives you the benefit of filling nutrient gaps in your diet. [00:35:33] Without having to think about it. Ritual multivitamins are delivered every month. With free shipping, you can start snooze or cancel your subscription anytime. And if you don’t love ritual within your first month, they’ll even refund your first order. You deserve to know what’s in your multivitamin. And that’s why ritual is offering our listeners 10% off for their first three months. [00:35:55] Visit ritual.com/overtired. To start your ritual today. [00:36:00] That’s ritual.com/overtired. Uh, which we’ll let them know we sent you and we’ll, we’ll all be happier for it. [00:36:08]Christina: [00:36:08] Very very much appreciate it. [00:36:11] Brett: [00:36:11] I feel like that was a pretty good read. [00:36:14] Christina: [00:36:14] I think so. I think that was great. [00:36:16] Brett: [00:36:16] kept it tight. I kept it tight, so [00:36:18] Christina: [00:36:18] mean, this is what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to, we’re trying to, uh, you know, keep it tight for the advertisers, but also for our listeners. [00:36:24] Brett: [00:36:24] right. I feel like it’s a double-edged sword. Of course. Last time we got like really verbose with an ad read, uh, like really got into talking about it. And we had like some side stories and I feel like w I thought we were doing a real service for the advertiser at the expense of our listeners, but it turned out our advertiser also wasn’t happy with it. [00:36:45] So it was like a wasted 10 tirade [00:36:48] Christina: [00:36:48] It really was it was just everybody lost including us because we could have been talking about something else We we were like our our hearts were in the right place [00:36:57] Brett: [00:36:57] our heads weren’t but our hearts were [00:37:00] [00:37:00] Christina: [00:37:00] No our heads weren’t that’s actually a really good segue for our next sponsor if you want me to go ahead and just do that one now to get it over [00:37:05] Brett: [00:37:05] Yeah Oh let’s let’s not phrase it like that though I want want you do it because we’re so excited about it [00:37:13] Christina: [00:37:13] No no no I didn’t mean get over with like that I just meant like the segue was really good and I just figured like knock knock them both out Um and uh [00:37:21] and piss [00:37:21] anybody off Speaking of heads speaking of foot and mouth right That’d need a vitamin for that No but but speaking of getting in the right head space if you’re not Wanting to have to troll um Elon Musk fans on Twitter Cause you shouldn’t do that You really probably just need to like be able to focus better Um and and you know after just be better and and this is the whole point of Headspace because wouldn’t it be great if there was like a pocket-sized guide that helped you you know sleep which is a topic that we both struggle with or not topic act [00:37:55] Brett: [00:37:55] It’s a it’s a topic for us It’s cool [00:37:58] Christina: [00:37:58] It’s cool Uh you know [00:38:00] but something that helps you sleep and focus and act or just be better Well there is and if you have 10 minutes Headspace can change your life Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations and an easy to use app And Headspace is one of the only apps advancing the field of mindfulness and meditation through a clinically valid through clinically validated research And Headspace is meditation start at just one minute each and they even have a set of walking meditation so that they’re easy to fit in even to the busiest schedules And Headspace is proven to help you feel better Their approach to mindfulness can reduce stress improve sleep boost focus and increase your overall sense of wellbeing So whatever the situation Headspace really can help you feel better And um I’m curious um how are the sleepcasts going for you [00:38:54] Brett: [00:38:54] Yeah So like I I love Headspace I’ve been using it for years but the [00:39:00] thing that I’ve loved the most recently is this library of sleep CAS And I have never listened to the same one twice because there’s dozens available and they keep adding new ones and they are there They’re like perfect for winding down And then just Falling asleep to. Like make a lot of their stuff is mindfulness and requires a certain amount of attention But these sleep casts are basically just designed to peacefully log you to sleep And they have been a nightly occurrences for me I love them [00:39:34] Christina: [00:39:34] Uh I definitely need to use this because I’ve used Headspace for years too but I haven’t used the sleepcast And that sounds much more preferable to what I’ve been doing which is to like listen to I’m not even joking about this and I’m whatever but I’ll listen to police interrogations of of like really terrible things And um Mostly cause like the people that they’re interrogating are dumb and like that’s the stuff that [00:40:00] can lull me to sleep So this sounds a lot better to be totally honest Uh and then on the other side of your sleep you’ll find the wake up which is a daily original um which is daily original content that’s intended to inspire your day from the moment you wake up So see again this would be way better than like going to sleep where you’re listening to something terrible And then like waking up kind of thinking about it Like you can use the sleepcasts to go to sleep have good sleep And then when you wake up the wake up will um help inspire your day for the minute that you get up So if you’re feeling overwhelmed Headspace even has a three minutes SOS meditation that you can take Um anytime that you need to do it did you ever think you’d be into meditation [00:40:39] Brett: [00:40:39] So yeah I like I’ve I’ve when we’ve done this read before I’ve mentioned how like with ADHD and bipolar I just didn’t think my brain could Could do meditation Uh but yeah Headspace is awesome because it eases you in with like those one minute and then uh most meditations are 10 minutes long and you can just fit them in without feeling like it’s [00:41:00] a whole uh a whole thing [00:41:04] It [00:41:05] and it’s super beneficial So I did not think I would ever be a meditator but turns out it’s actually been really helpful to me [00:41:15] Christina: [00:41:15] I love that And Headspace is backed by 25 published studies on its benefits 600,005 star reviews and over 60 million downloads Headspace makes it easy for you to build a life changing meditation practice with mindfulness that works for you on your schedule Anytime anywhere you deserve to feel happier And Headspace is meditation made simple So go to headspace.com/overtired that’s headspace.com/overtired free free one month trial with access to headspaces full library of meditations for every situation And this is the best deal offered right now So head on over to headspace.com/overtired today [00:41:58] Brett: [00:41:58] Meditation [00:42:00] situation new band name write that down [00:42:02] Christina: [00:42:02] I like that meditation situation [00:42:04] Brett: [00:42:04] Um [00:42:05] Christina: [00:42:05] You should make a [00:42:06] Brett: [00:42:06] Straight jacket baby That that was one that came up uh baby in a straight jacket was what Anne on parks and rec thought would be a good band name but thought you really should just make it straight jacket baby And that would be way better [00:42:23] Christina: [00:42:23] You know I was in a straight jacket once as a baby [00:42:26] Brett: [00:42:26] Really What you do? [00:42:29] Christina: [00:42:29] Okay. Okay. So I, I was like one and a half, I think. Um, and I was, um, in a high chair. We were at, um, the club. My mom was cutting up my hot dog and I was leaning over and the sharp part of a chair, um, cut from like, basically like my inner eye across the bridge of my nose, to my other inner eye. [00:42:54] And, um, My face is filled with blood. I apparently was fine until [00:43:00] my sister and my mom started freaking out and then I started freaking out. And so, uh, you know, it took me, you know, to the hospital or whatever, and then had to put me in like a little straight jacket. Cause I was like 18 months old and you know, they needed to do stitches. [00:43:12] So I had a whole bunch of stitches across the bridge of my nose. I still have a scar. Um, a plastic surgeon, uh, stood up and was always like, yeah, you could probably get this removed or whatever, but I kind of like it. Um, Obviously, if any of it at all, except, you know, I remember obviously when I was really, really little for the first couple of years of my life, but you can look back at early photos of me and you can see kind of what the red area, like on the bridge of my nose, where you see my scar and it doesn’t show up all the time. [00:43:47] It, it, I don’t get tan, so, uh, most people don’t ever see it, but like there would be times when my face would be more tan or whatever, the people would see it more. And there’s some people who were like, yeah, you have like this scar in the bridge of your nose. I’m like, yeah, I almost poked [00:44:00] my eye out. I didn’t, but they put me in a straight jacket, uh, you know, so that the surgeon could, um, could sew me up. [00:44:07] Apparently though I was very good. I just stuck to my pacifier and like watched the whole time. And they were very impressed. [00:44:13] Brett: [00:44:13] Nice. You just always a well-behaved girl. [00:44:18] Christina: [00:44:18] Uh, [00:44:19] Brett: [00:44:19] What happened to you? [00:44:20] Christina: [00:44:20] I know what was weird. So it’s actually, here’s, what’s messed up. I was like very rambunctious until I entered like kindergarten and then the whole idea of like rules and like judgment and like being like rewarded or punished for like your virtue started to become like a thing. And that like some weird switch went off. [00:44:42] Like in my mind when I was like five years old and I was like, Oh no, I need to be perfect and everything. And then I became like, very, very, very type a and then when I was like 16, the switch, like went back again and I was like, this is all bullshit. Fuck. All of this. [00:44:57] Brett: [00:44:57] Yeah, well, so I was very similar. [00:45:00] Like I, as a kid really hated pissing off teachers and parents. And like, it was very important to me to be a quote unquote good. Uh, except as it has an ADHD kid with, um, we’ll call them behavioral, like Tourettes. And I just, I found myself always on the wrong side of the law and constantly really down on myself about it. [00:45:28] So by the time I was about 16, I went through a similar thing. Like I can’t be perfect. So I’m just going to be as bad as I can. [00:45:37] Christina: [00:45:37] Yeah, for me, it was a weird thing. Cause I never was on the wrong side of the law. I was always considered like the straight a student, like, you know, from improper, like was well behaved was always whatever. And then I had like this weird kind of like, I don’t know, existential crisis where I was like, what, what is all this for? [00:45:56] What does this mean? What’s the point of all of this, you know, like [00:46:00] got very into Nietzsche and, uh, I was just probably would read, you know, the catcher in the ride too many times. I don’t know, like something just switched my brain. Honestly. I think that it was. A combination of a bunch of things, but I was just kind of like who the hell cares. [00:46:14] This is stupid. And, uh, I stopped caring about being perfect. Um, and I probably went too far in that direction. And, and I I’d like to think that now as an adult, that I’ve like, got like a balance, you know, like, okay, I will actively troll people who symp for billionaires because it’s funny to me, but I also don’t like want to make people feel bad or be upset. [00:46:38] And I don’t want to like be out of order. And I want to be respectful of, especially the people that I work with and the time that I take up of people, you know what I mean? Like, [00:46:45] Brett: [00:46:45] not a psychopath. That’s what you’re saying. [00:46:47] Christina: [00:46:47] no, I’m not a psychopath. Um, some people might want to quit. No, I’m not a psychopath at all. So, yeah. Um, but no, I feel you. [00:46:55] Um, I also, I, I can’t personally relate to like the being on the wrong side thing, but [00:47:00] I accept that. I remember when I was like, before I kind of had that switch, I was on medications that. Made me completely unable to focus and do anything. And like I finally had, I think I’d always been ADHD, but I’d been so high functioning that I’d been able to control it. [00:47:18] And then it got to the point that I couldn’t control it anymore. And it was just one of those things where I did kind of experience. It was like, I have no control over some of these things and I’m getting yelled at and whatnot. Um, so I can, I can empathize, I guess, with what that would be like to be a kid who you desperately want to be good and you want to do all the right things, but there are these things that are not within your control that are preventing that and that you’re getting yelled at for. [00:47:42] And so then you just go through this, you know, shame spiral of like, I’m not good enough. I suck. I’m terrible. [00:47:47] Brett: [00:47:47] Let me clarify, when I said on the wrong side of the law, I was being metaphorical about like ups, upset teachers [00:47:53] Christina: [00:47:53] No, no. I understand [00:47:54] Brett: [00:47:54] I’ve never actually been arrested for anything other than protests. And [00:48:00] that was never like, you know, no charges or anything that was basically at, at most, a few hours in jail and then bailed. [00:48:07] Um, but like, as far as like my teenage years, I never got arrested, I was always like, I always, always the lookout. I was always super careful when we were doing shenanigans. Um, and as a drug user in my, my later teens and my twenties, I, I, I was just always super careful. And so it wasn’t that I was legal, but never in trouble trouble [00:48:33] Christina: [00:48:33] no I get it I mean yeah Um I think the closest I ever came to getting in trouble trouble was when the cops broke up a Toga party that we had freshman year of college Um [00:48:44] Brett: [00:48:44] Oh I thought you said yoga party [00:48:45] Christina: [00:48:45] no Toga party Yoga party would have been cool No we threw a Toga party and we were 80 minutes because we were in a dry building the dorms and then were on the first floor [00:48:57] Brett: [00:48:57] couldn’t find another building to do it? [00:49:00] [00:49:00] Christina: [00:49:00] shit. Well we’re we we’re done well, it’s somebody’s birthday. And these girls wanted to have it in their dorm and you have to understand, like, our dorms were like the former Olympic village. So they were like really like little mini apartments. So you had very small individual single rooms. And then you had like two bathrooms. [00:49:13] Two bathrooms per two people. And then you had like a, a kitchen and living room or whatever. So we had this toga party. We’re dumb asses. And we have it on the first floor. We should’ve had an, our dorm, which was on the seventh floor because the cops never would have come up those stairs or the elevator. [00:49:27] They wouldn’t have dealt with that. Here was the issue when the cops came to break things up and it was still fairly early, it wasn’t like campus police because of where we lived. It was Atlanta police. Okay. So, so APD is there. So. There are 30 or 40, you know, kids who are in various States of, of, you know, um, uh, drunkenness we’re all in togas. [00:49:53] So, you know, we’re half naked. Um, I of course was caught [00:50:00] with not one but two beer bottles in my hand because I was double fisting. And so I couldn’t even pretend that I wasn’t drinking because clearly I was my roommate who couldn’t even stand up straight, got in the line of people who claimed they hadn’t been drinking. [00:50:14] And I was like, you fucking idiot. Like, but the cops, it was very clear. Cause it was like a Friday night. They, they just didn’t want to deal with it. Like, you know, again like 30 or 40, you know, underage kids who are half naked, you know, uh, mixed, um, you know, uh, sex and, and these were like male police officers. [00:50:31] So they would’ve had to call a female officer and, um, they just had us pour out the alcohol and then, um, left and said, have a good party, have a good night. [00:50:42] Brett: [00:50:42] Yeah. I’ve had many parties busted. I’ve never seen anyone actually hauled off from a party, [00:50:47] Christina: [00:50:47] Right. Well will, well, again, like our thing was that we were in a dry building. Like it was one of the rules we were on campus property. We were like, all, you know what I mean? Like it was one [00:50:55] Brett: [00:50:55] that’s academic discipline Not not [00:50:58] Christina: [00:50:58] well it would have been academic [00:51:00] discipline except as I said the police who served at were actual [00:51:04] Brett: [00:51:04] Yeah I get but it’s not they’re not going to arrest a bunch of kids I I don’t think in most [00:51:09] cases [00:51:10] Christina: [00:51:10] So I mean I think that maybe yeah they had better things to do Right But and and I and I realized that kind of as it was happening but we didn’t know that And they were like maybe taking down names and like in my mind I’m like my mom is going to be so pissed Well actually I thought it was kind of funny Cause again I was kind of like well if this happens because what am I going to do again I can’t claim that I haven’t been drinking I’ve got two bottles of beer in my hand You know I can’t lie my way out of this So it was like this happens this happens Right And I’m just like my mom’s gonna be really fucking pissed if she has to come Like if she has to drive You know downtown to the Atlanta police station to get me out of jail like she’s going to be really really pissed Um but no they just had us pour out the alcohol you know left the girls whose um dorm it was and like one of the girls whose birthday it was like they were all crying and like very upset And at this point like after we got away with it I just thought it was funny I was just like great And I think [00:52:00] we continued drinking up in our dorm room and then like went to a diner or something might my college like wasn’t one of those things where our stuff got around a lot because it was kind of disparate and there’s you know a big university And I heard people talking about it like multiple people talking about it like on Monday they’re like Oh yeah you know you hear about the Toga party in in um in Athena that got um you know broken up by the cops or whatever And because Athena was the name of our building and uh [00:52:26] which means [00:52:28] exactly exactly And uh uh or no Sparta Sparta It was our building Um I know I I agree Um and uh I was you know and I was like hearing like people like inflating what happened I was like no like I was a little people who threw that party It was fine Like the cops just like made us pour out the beers and left It was completely okay Um but that’s the closest I’ve ever come to being arrested And I figured while they were there just because of the [00:53:00] sheer number of people that we weren’t going to get hauled in But there was that that moment in my mind where I was like well my mom’s gonna be really pissed because she would have been like she would have been like and really what would have pissed her off would have been like the it would have been the underage drinking thing who cares It would have been like the a should have been like what is this gonna do for your record Dah dah dah dah dah which whatever mom but like she would have also been like really mad that she had to drive out um to downtown Atlanta on a Friday night to like spring her 19 year old daughter [00:53:29] Brett: [00:53:29] I hope you know that this will go down on your permanent record [00:53:33] Christina: [00:53:33] No Totally [00:53:34] Brett: [00:53:34] Oh yeah Well don’t be so distressed Did I happen to mention that I’m impressed Are you not You’re not a violent femmes fan [00:53:42] Christina: [00:53:42] I am Uh I am Yeah I get that Yeah Yeah [00:53:45] Brett: [00:53:45] Nine for a lost God So uh when I when I asked our bot in discord what our topics today were uh I only asked for two topics and one of them was software which we’ve done a bang up job on Um but yeah the [00:54:00] other one was music And so here’s the segue Speaking of teens making questionable questionable decisions I started the Billie Eilish documentary and I stopped because it was lessening my my impression of her Uh she’s a very she’s a teenager I don’t how old she actually is now but she acts like a uh homeschooled teenager And she a lot of her like when it comes to the artistic direction of her videos like a lot of it she did just she thought it would look cool Like let’s let’s make black stuff come out of my eyes Let’s put on my head. Like there’s no real art behind the decisions. And I feel like a lot of the, a lot of the depth that exists in her music comes from Phineas. [00:54:47] Christina: [00:54:47] Yes. I agree. I agree. I haven’t watched the complete documentary yet, but I’ve had kind of the same impression. Um, and, and it, I don’t know, it kind of makes me sad cause I really like her and I really like [00:54:59] Brett: [00:54:59] Yeah, me [00:55:00] too. [00:55:00] Christina: [00:55:00] but I’d kind of hoped that she’d be like a cooler Taylor Swift. [00:55:05] Brett: [00:55:05] An alt Taylor Swift. [00:55:07] Christina: [00:55:07] Totally. But well, because you know, like Taylor to her credit, she’s not cool. No one would ever argue that, but she, at that age was actually making [00:55:19] Brett: [00:55:19] well-spoken [00:55:20] Christina: [00:55:20] very specific. Which she was actually like had the concept set for her, for her concert tours and her music videos and her work and whatnot. Like they’re like, they might not be cool. [00:55:29] Like Billie Eilish is stuff is cool, but she was actually like, even from the beginning, like in charge of her image and like that stuff. Right. And I’d kind of hope that like, Billy was like that, but just like the cool version. And, and no, it was the older brother, which was which I hate because that was sort of the criticism about her after she swept the Grammy’s, it wasn’t before as much. [00:55:50] But after she swept, everybody has to like shit on, you know, young women who win never young men, but always young women. Um, and I [00:56:00] really hope that that wasn’t accurate, but I mean, I think I feel that there’s like a simplification to that and I don’t want to completely take away her own. What, what am I going to say? [00:56:11] Like her own agency completely, but at the same time, it is from what I’ve observed. It is very clear that that is she, she is much more. Of a Selena Gomez of a Demi Lovato of a pre, um, VMAs, Miley Cyrus, you know of that, but Brittany Spears, right then like a Taylor Swift. Right. And, in so far as she is the vessel that someone else’s artistic expression comes out of, it is not her own agency and choice. [00:56:40] In most cases, like I’m not taking away her that she doesn’t have some input and stuff, but [00:56:44] Brett: [00:56:44] she does, she has, she has a lot of input, but she actually hates songwriting. Like for her, it’s a real chore. She’s an excellent performer. And the footage of her live shows, they were always like very intimate, kind of [00:57:00] like, she was very in touch with the crowd, her fans, like it, it was that part was cool and watching the songwriting process, like she had a lot of say in it, but I feel like all the really good decisions that went into the songs were if not directly from Phineas, they were heavily guided by Phineas and, and that’s fine. [00:57:21] She’s, she’s young. She’s, performing way beyond her her age [00:57:26] Christina: [00:57:26] I will well and again like most performers that is how it works [00:57:30] Brett: [00:57:30] for [00:57:31] Christina: [00:57:31] honestly like like most performers That is how it works Most people don’t write their own music They don’t like they don’t like you know um I got into something with people um on Twitter while ago Cause people were like Shitting on the fact that I don’t remember who it was that they were going after but uh you know some sort of idea people didn’t write their own songs well back in our day you know you know rock and roll or this or that you know they they they were real artists I’m like what the fuck are you talking about Literally written by committee like that like [00:58:00] the like Brill like the Brill building is a thing like literally the history of pop music but also rock and roll was songs performed by other people you know great artists great performers not taking anything away from that who did not write them Like you know like that’s literally the history of of most successful music I mean if you want to go back even further I mean the whole kind of history of stuff like classical music and whatnot but yeah you have your composers but then you have many many many many many people who perform those things and who like work to perfect that but they’re not writing the symphonies [00:58:33] Brett: [00:58:33] I think I yeah I don’t really give a shit if you if a song’s good Um I I I’m not super concerned with who wrote it but I do wish in a lot of cases that’s Songwriters were that it wasn’t concealed that everything was more transparent This is this is a hit song performed by written by um like that wouldn’t be that would make a big difference for me [00:58:58] Christina: [00:58:58] no And and I mean I [00:59:00] think that that’s like Grammys are bullshit but that is why like they have you know the of the year award and they have those other things and you do have, you know, other stuff, I do also feel like that is why someone like a Taylor Swift, but not exclusively. [00:59:12] Her, there are plenty of other people who do both as well get like additional praise, just because it is a rarity to have people. [00:59:22] Brett: [00:59:22] It’s a, it’s a good thing. Like I think it is, it adds something. If the artists both conceived of and performed a hit song, I, it does actually, uh, I do have more respect for it. If the artist was part of the entire process. [00:59:38] Christina: [00:59:38] Yeah, no, I mean, I don’t know if I have more respect for it. I just think it makes it different because there are some people who are just fantastic performers, but are not songwriters and that’s okay. Um, because the shows and the performances that they put on are fantastic. Like, like, um, um, Madonna did contribute and has done songwriting, but that’s not what you would ever like, think of her first as like a singer [01:00:00] songwriter. [01:00:00] Right. But she’s one of the most amazing performers that we’ve ever had. Um, Obviously when you have like, people like Paul Simon or John Lennon or Paul McCartney or whatever, like Joni Mitchell, um, that’s incredible because you, you see like that full breadth of kind of like, like talent or, or, you know, um, and, and that’s really amazing to see, but I like, I don’t think Beyonce is a lesser artist because she doesn’t write her own songs. I know, [01:00:33] Brett: [01:00:33] Then that’s great because now we already have the next show, like a bunch starter points already queued up Yeah [01:00:41] Christina: [01:00:41] also feel like this was a good mixture I feel like this is one of our better ones in a while to be [01:00:44] Brett: [01:00:44] It was pretty tech heavy but I think that’s our audience anyway So you’re welcome everybody [01:00:51] Christina: [01:00:51] you’re welcome for hearing us talk about Brewfiles and dotfiles and uh [01:00:56] Brett: [01:00:56] really hope that’s our audience Otherwise we just lost [01:01:00] Oh But I I’m going to put Elon in the [01:01:04] show title [01:01:04] Christina: [01:01:04] in the show title because we need to get those haters So haters please look if you’re if you’re if you’re um following our podcast uh if uh you give us give us a zero star already That’s fine I mean I’d prefer a five star but like leave us those those hate comments Cause honestly any sort of engagement is better than none So [01:01:26] Brett: [01:01:26] Right If you’re going to leave a one-star review be sure to leave it with a comment that specifically says I hate this because they they they bashed Musk or they talk too much about Taylor uh because those are the things that other people be like well if that person hates it I’m going to love it And you’ll do our job for us. [01:01:47] Christina: [01:01:47] You will also like, frankly, like if you please symp for Elon in the comments, please, please, please, please, please. Some for Elon in the comments like that would be an amazing thing to, to like give us a one-star [01:02:00] review and praise on Musk. Like I would, I’m not even I’m, I’m actually kind of being serious here. [01:02:05] I would kind of love that. I’m not even joking. [01:02:08] Brett: [01:02:08] All right. Well, that was, that was man. We, I think we really came through for recording three days late. [01:02:15] Christina: [01:02:15] Yeah. I do. I feel like, honestly, and this was like the earliest we’ve recorded. This is ironic. So it’s like the earliest we’ve recorded, but also like the latest, [01:02:25] It’s either either half an hour earlier or three and a half days later, depending on how you look at it. [01:02:33] exactly. But in any event I feel like it worked, [01:02:37] Brett: [01:02:37] Get some sleep, Christina. [01:02:38] Christina: [01:02:38] get some sleep, Brett.

Taylor won Artist of the Year, so obviously we’re talking about that. Christina is offended by Brett’s dismissiveness but he gets to title the episodes, so… Plus new gigs, new keyboards, and addictive games. Sponsor Audible is the leading provider of spoken-word entertainment and audiobooks, ranging from best sellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, languages, motivation, original entertainment, podcasts and more. Visit audible.com/overtired, or text overtired to 500–500 to start your free trial. Show Links Oracle Taylor Swift makes Grammys history with ‘Folklore’ win, becoming first woman in three-peat club Beyoncé Destiny’s Child TLC UHK v2 Threes Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett_1 Brett: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Hello, you’re listening to overtired. I’m Brett Terpstra and I am here with Christina Warren. How are you, Christina? [00:00:11] Christina: [00:00:11] I’m pretty good bread. Except right before we started recording you were, you were, you were unfairly dismissive of our podcasts, like muse, like the, there is on Detra for this podcast. You were, you were unfairly dismissive of, so other than that though, no, I’m actually pretty good. How are you? [00:00:31] Brett: [00:00:31] Um, I, so I slept really well last night for maybe the best sleep I’ve gotten in a long time, which is surprising given how excited I was about my, my big secret news, but how are, how are you doing? [00:00:47] Christina: [00:00:47] similarly, right. Like I had, um, Are really good sleep. Um, and it was one of those things where like, and it wasn’t one of those situations where I had to like, get super high to go to sleep. So I slept for, [00:01:00] cause that happens sometimes. Like if I take like an edible or whatever, I’m like, [00:01:03] Brett: [00:01:03] sleep well, if you’re high. [00:01:05] Christina: [00:01:05] Oh yeah. [00:01:06] Brett: [00:01:06] Oh man. I never like back. I never got like a really, truly restful sleep on any, any [00:01:13] Christina: [00:01:13] Well, okay. I’m not sure if I would call it a restful, but it is one of those things where it’s just like black and, and then I just wake up and I’m like, Oh, okay, cool. Um, no, but in this case I’m going to have some weird dreams which happens sometimes, but it was a fairly, like a consistent and long period of sleep. [00:01:31] And I went to bed like before 10:00 PM. And so it was one of those things where I got like a lot of sleep, so yeah. [00:01:39] Brett: [00:01:39] Yeah. So I got to tell you my big news. [00:01:42] Christina: [00:01:42] I was going to say, please tell us your big news breads health club corner, as well as a Brett’s news corner. Cause I think these two are probably going to be related even if not directly. What’s the big news. [00:01:52] Brett: [00:01:52] So you know that, uh, that thing with Oracle it’s happening. I’m part of a [00:02:00] developer relations team. I am my, the job title is like technical writer, but it’s like a full like multimedia they’re going to make use of all of the skills that I’ve honed ever since my days at two plus my development experience. [00:02:15] And it is, I have never felt like a job was more tailored to me. [00:02:22]Christina: [00:02:22] no, [00:02:23] Brett: [00:02:23] of the industry for a decade. And in the meantime, as L put it, the industry grew a job for me. [00:02:30] Christina: [00:02:30] no, she’s exactly right. That’s the perfect way of putting it. And it’s so funny because when you and I were talking on systematic about. My shift from journalism to developer relations and, and advocacy. And, um, our jobs are going to be solar, like not the same, but, but, but similar in some ways, and, and, uh, whatnot, I kind of felt the same way when I was talking to you, even I was thinking, I was like, God, you know, it pro wanted something like this. [00:02:53] Like, he’d be a great developer advocate or, or a technical writer or whatever, but you’d be great in dev role. I’ve always [00:03:00] thought that, so this is so exciting. This is so awesome. And Ella is exactly right. They built a job for you. They, they th th the industry grew because you know, what I think happened is that people have seen like that the most effective way to connect in and communicate with communities. [00:03:18]Is having people who are naturally part of those communities who have already naturally on their own been doing what you and I have done, like our whole careers, which is to, you know, blog and chat with people and do podcasts and, and create fun side projects. Like you even more than me. But like, I, cause I’ve always been really interested in telling the stories and figuring out what stuff is and highlighting stuff. [00:03:41] But like you’ve also had that component where you’ve built so much cool stuff. Um, and that really resonates with people and it builds trust because they know that like, if you say try this, this is cool. Or this is how you can do something. Like you have credibility and then you also have like integrity. [00:03:59] So, [00:04:00] you know, if something sucks, like you’re not gonna do a whole thing on it. [00:04:03] Brett: [00:04:03] There’s like, uh, I’m going to have to be learning new stuff all the time. [00:04:08] Christina: [00:04:08] Which is so good for [00:04:09] Brett: [00:04:09] they be like here, write about how Oracle works with TensorFlow and I’ll be like, all right, let’s sit down and do some coursework real quick. Um, so yeah, I’m kind of excited about that part. I’m also like I’ve been an indie developer I’ve lost count almost 10 years, I think. [00:04:27] And I will say that it does not provide a lot of financial stability. So just the idea of having a salary and, uh, and benefits and like a monthly paycheck like that. That’s why last night I slept, like I thought I was going to be too excited to sleep. Cause I just found this out yesterday. [00:04:48] Um, And then I thought like, Oh geez, that I might not sleep at all, but I did. And, and I slept like, like a stress-free [00:05:00] anxiety-free sleep. It was kind of amazing. [00:05:03] Christina: [00:05:03] No, this is so good. And, and this is where it does. And I’m going to ask you, like, uh, obviously not like not very specific questions and whatnot, but, um, this is the full-time role, right? Like this isn’t a contract role. Okay. So [00:05:15] Brett: [00:05:15] salary position. [00:05:17] Christina: [00:05:17] fantastic. So that does mean that like, I mean, not, I think you were on Medicaid before or whatever, so you have pretty good insurance, but like, this is going to be a potentially an even like, better level than that, because you won’t have to go through certain things. [00:05:30] So like, I’m assuming, like it’s a big company, it’s a, you know, a multi, multi multi-billion dollar company. So, um, how do you feel to like, not be in like healthcare, like purgatory. [00:05:46]Brett: [00:05:46] Yeah, no, the benefits package is outstanding. [00:05:49] I have never felt more, um, happy with, uh, with, with compensation. This is, yeah, it’s going to be amazing. I’m a [00:06:00] little worried that it’s going to affect my, like, I’m very open about mental health and, uh, I’m very open about, uh, how I feel about things. Uh, maybe not to the extent you are, you’re very open about how you feel like things in Microsoft hasn’t fired you. [00:06:17] Christina: [00:06:17] No, they haven’t. No, they haven’t even yelled at me. So, um, [00:06:21] Brett: [00:06:21] worried that I’ll censor myself more. [00:06:23] Christina: [00:06:23] you probably will. I mean, look, I’m going to, this is the hilarious thing. I actually do censor myself more. Um, there are things that I won’t say, but there’s like a line and you you’ll fill the line. You’ll know it also, they hired you, you went through a background check, they know who you are, but that’s the thing that I would, I would tell yourself, like, if they’re not, if they’re not unknown, like you’re not an unknown entity, this isn’t something where they went into this, like without knowing something and part of. [00:06:52] Why they hired you, candidly is because of your social reach. Like that’s not even a remotely small part of it. That’s actually a pretty major part of it is [00:07:00] obviously your skills and whatnot. But it’s the fact that so many people know you and the reach that you have, that’s why they hired you. So [00:07:07] Brett: [00:07:07] Yeah, [00:07:08] Christina: [00:07:08] to me, like I know that also know that yeah. [00:07:12] I mean, I would definitely become aware of whatever the company guidelines are, uh, so that you don’t reach them because you don’t want to lose a job. [00:07:19] Brett: [00:07:19] right, right. [00:07:20] Christina: [00:07:20] but find out what the guidelines are and then find out like where to fit in that. And. There are some things like I’ve, I don’t know, like they’re bare ways that they’re, they’re things that like I kind of sometimes want to comment on. [00:07:34] And then I think, and I’m like, you know what? I don’t have to comment on this. Like, which I think you would have less of an issue with than I would, because you don’t comment on everything. And, and so like, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m very opinionated and, and what I’ve learned, and this is going to be hilarious for people who listen to this pod, especially cause I’m much less like this is the most like me that I probably am on any podcast that I do for sure. [00:07:59] Uh, [00:08:00] in no small part, because it’s, I think probably like a, it’s not a, it’s, it’s a smaller listenership and it’s more intimate. These are people who know us for us and who’ve been with us awhile. So, uh, it feels even though it’s still just every bit as public as anything else, it feels more intimate anyway, uh, which might be, you know, a bad like calculus on my part, but fuck it. [00:08:24] Uh, [00:08:24] Brett: [00:08:24] still public. It’s still out there for everybody. [00:08:28] Christina: [00:08:28] Oh, I’m aware. I’m aware. Just saying which again, I’m saying like, could be a bad calculus on my part, but again, fuck it. But no, it’s one of those things. I think sometimes I’m like, okay, do I have to comment on this outrage, controversy, whatever thing that’s happening. And sometimes I’m like, no, you know what? [00:08:41] You don’t like, you don’t need to get involved in this fight or this war or any of this stuff. But if it’s something like. The black lives matter stuff that was happening over the summer. I was like at no problem being public about that. And the company was supportive of that, but there are lines, right? [00:08:57] Like I’m not going to call for violence. I’m not going to call [00:09:00] for, you know, like hate or, or try to, you know, um, like, uh, you know, direct harassment or whatever towards anyone. I mean, there are other things for me, the biggest line and, um, is that I don’t insult the company products. I might make fun of the naming sometimes ingest. [00:09:17] And I might like harken back to like bad stuff from the past, like in, in a, in a way that’s clearly done with love, but. We are like, I work at a, you know, trillion and a half dollar company that has a bajillion lines of business and not everything that like Microsoft makes, I think is fantastic. So I don’t talk about the stuff that I don’t think is great. [00:09:41] I’m going to do in that courtesy. I’m not going to lie and be like, Oh, this thing is awesome. If I think that it’s not, but I’m not going to, I’m not going to talk badly about it. And so I feel like Oracle is going to be a similar thing. Like you don’t have to talk about the stuff that you don’t think is great. [00:09:56] You don’t have to promote it. They’re not paying you for that, but you don’t [00:10:00] have to in shouldn’t and I don’t think you ever would anyway, publicly comment when it’s bad, [00:10:05] Brett: [00:10:05] Yeah, no. I mean like my entire, uh, blogging career, I have never published, uh, like hit pieces because if something doesn’t make me happy, it’s not worth my time. Like I write about things I love and that can come across as like, he loves everything, but I just ignore the stuff that, that doesn’t live up to my expectations. [00:10:31]Christina: [00:10:31] exactly. I mean, I’m, I’m similar. Like I, I do like bitch and complain about stuff, but the stuff that I really care about, I mean, and this is what I hear from people who. Like my stuff, who I work with. And, and it’s interesting because I get feedback sometimes from people who I work with and, and by feedback, I mean, positive feedback, uh, I’m always interested. [00:10:48] It’s always interesting. There’s some people that I work with who get shit for their tweets and their social posts. And then I’m like way more out there. And I don’t, I’m setting myself up for this, as I’m saying this to probably get screamed at for stuff. [00:11:00] But, um, but I’ve also been doing this a very long time. [00:11:03] So I feel like I have a good understanding of the line and the thing that I hear consistently. And I think this is absolutely true for you because this is part of the reason why we’re friends and what attracted us to working together and doing our podcasts and stuff is like bridges, where you get excited about stuff. [00:11:18] We like it. We love stuff. That’s fun. And, and for me, like, I don’t ever want to be. Like similar to you. Like if it, if it doesn’t make me happy, I might bitch about it on Twitter because Twitter is my hobby. Actually, a friend of mine pointed that out yesterday because we, we all worked at the same place, which was very dramatic and very chaotic. [00:11:38] And, um, we all are no longer at that place. And we were talking about, okay, because one of our friends is about to start a new job and they’re like, what am I going to do? And I don’t have this, this drama and this chaos. They’re like, you’re going to get hobbies. She’s like, I wonder what my hobbies is going to be. [00:11:52] You know, Christina’s is Twitter. And I was like, Oh yeah, that’s true. Twitter is my hobby. Um, but like, if, if you don’t have [00:12:00] something like that, like you’re just going to share the stuff you’re excited about and the cool stuff you do, and what’s going to be great for them is you’re going to figure out ways to do cool stuff with their different services and APIs, and that’s going to be awesome, but you’re also still going to be able to, when it fits work on your own stuff, I have a feeling that’s going to be the thing that is going to be. [00:12:19]Not the hardest for you, but maybe the thing they’ll take the most time for you to like, figure out the balance is not feeling guilty when you let some of your side projects and stuff, not take top priority and that’s okay. Like it’s going to be okay to be like, I’m still gonna update the blog, still going to do my podcast, but I can let stuff go a little bit because I have this other priority, which is paying me a salary. [00:12:47] Brett: [00:12:47] See, I want to keep doing over tired, but if I had to let something go, I would probably let systematic go. It’s like, I love the show. I feel like, um, I’m [00:13:00] proud of the work I’ve done there. Uh, but it takes a lot of time with scheduling and then interviewing, and then it always takes way more editing than this show does. [00:13:10] And it’s, it’s an easily, three times more time consuming than overtired. [00:13:15] Christina: [00:13:15] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and what I would say for that, I mean, you’ll get the gist of things. Like you can always make it quarterly or, or make, you know what I mean? Like you can always adjust to the, the frequency. [00:13:25] Brett: [00:13:25] Quarterly once every three months. That that was our schedule for a little while. [00:13:32] Christina: [00:13:32] It was. I mean, if you make a consistent, our problem is we weren’t consistent. And part of the reason that ours was so crazy was candidly. It was me, was my job. I was in other countries all the time and I didn’t have time and we didn’t have sponsors at that point. So it was one of those things where we didn’t need to be like, [00:13:50] Brett: [00:13:50] also, I burnt out, like there [00:13:53] Christina: [00:13:53] you burnt out too. [00:13:54] Yeah. [00:13:54] Brett: [00:13:54] a year and a couple of months that I wasn’t doing systematic either. I just, I, I burnt out [00:14:00] [00:14:00] Christina: [00:14:00] Yes. Okay. So we were burnt out. We weren’t, we didn’t have like the pull of a sponsor to, you know, bring us in and then you know, which, which, which is a important thing. And, um, then like also I had my day job and my, my work comes first. Right? Like that’s, that’s what keeps me like living in nice shortens and, um, paid for by health insurance. [00:14:24] And so, yeah. You know, like you, you make those choices. [00:14:29] Brett: [00:14:29] Yeah, no, this, this, this is, um, a life-changing step for me. Uh, everything the world looks different to me today and I loved being an indie developer. I loved, uh, the schedule and the life I carved out for myself in that manner. But yeah, no, this, this feels right. This feels really good. [00:14:51] Christina: [00:14:51] I’m so happy for you. So when, when, when do you start? [00:14:54] Brett: [00:14:54] There’s going to be like the whole onboarding process, but within the next, we’ll say month, [00:15:00] uh, depending on how all the paperwork goes, [00:15:03] Christina: [00:15:03] That’s fantastic. I’m so happy for you. I’m so happy for you. Welcome to the, um, Oh my God. You can now be one of those annoying people who uses an avocado as your emoji in your, um, on your Twitter, [00:15:15] Brett: [00:15:15] why would I do that? [00:15:16] Christina: [00:15:16] because you’re a dev avocado. [00:15:19] Brett: [00:15:19] Uh, no, [00:15:21] Christina: [00:15:21] I know, [00:15:23] Brett: [00:15:23] not going to do that. Not going to happen. [00:15:25] Christina: [00:15:25] I don’t do that [00:15:26] Brett: [00:15:26] I will, I will, I will maintain my, uh, my Twitter avatar, always being some weird yoga pose. [00:15:33]Christina: [00:15:33] Fair. I like that. [00:15:35] Brett: [00:15:35] Yeah. Um, um, um, we have a sponsor for, we have only one sponsor today. So this is not going to be a show where, uh, like 30 minutes of it is dedicated to talking about [00:15:49] Christina: [00:15:49] Thank you. Thank you to our great listeners who haven’t unsubscribed [00:15:53] Brett: [00:15:53] Right? I’ll be honest. That one episode we did where literally half the show was just talking about [00:16:00] sponsors. We actually got in trouble with the sponsors for talking about them too much. [00:16:05]Christina: [00:16:05] That’s our bad that’s because we’re bad [00:16:09] Brett: [00:16:09] I got good feedback from listeners though. Who thought it was very entertaining that I went into, uh, like off on tangents during a kitty poo read or talking about like separate beds when we were, yeah. [00:16:23] Anyway, we’ll keep today’s concise. How’s that? [00:16:28] Christina: [00:16:28] that. Sounds good. [00:16:29] Brett: [00:16:29] Uh, audible is the leading provider of spoken word entertainment and audio books ranging from best-sellers and new releases, languages, motivation, and more like original entertainment from top celebrity creators and thousands of popular and binge word. I can say it. [00:16:48] Binge-worthy podcasts. [00:16:50] Christina: [00:16:50] Hell yeah. [00:16:50] Brett: [00:16:50] Their newest plan audible plus gives you full access to the plus catalog. You can listen all you want to thousands of audio books, original [00:17:00] entertainment and podcasts, including ad free versions of your favorite shows and exclusive series. That feels slightly ironic doing an ad in the middle of a show. [00:17:10] But if we were on audible, you could listen to it without this ad, which would be easy because you’d already have audible. [00:17:17] Christina: [00:17:17] You’d already have audible and you’d be like what they taught. We were talking about audible. Weird. [00:17:21]Brett: [00:17:21] you can listen offline anytime, anywhere you can even squeeze in a workout or a guided meditation without having to go to a gym or a class, all you need is a smartphone or a tablet. It will even sync your spot in your audio book or podcasts across devices, including Amazon and Amazon Alexa enabled devices like echos. [00:17:43] Right now I’m reading a book called Clara in the sun and I can’t, the author’s name is Japanese. I’m gonna, I’m gonna guess. It’s Kazuo Ishiguro, which is probably a hundred percent wrong, but the book has me [00:18:00] completely hooked. Um, I’m like, it’s been super charming up to this point, but they’ve set up like four different ways that it could go really dark. [00:18:08] I have no idea how this book ends, but I’m absolutely riveted. Um, actually have like four books going right now at once. Uh, I was jumping around, but Clara and the sun has me riveted. Um, [00:18:23] Christina: [00:18:23] I’m I’m listening to truth lies and O-rings inside the space shuttle challenger disaster. [00:18:28] Brett: [00:18:28] Oh, wow. That sounds intense. [00:18:31] Christina: [00:18:31] It is it’s 26 hours. [00:18:33] Brett: [00:18:33] Who wrote it? [00:18:34] Christina: [00:18:34] Uh, it’s written by Alan J. McDonald and James R. Hansen. And it’s considered like one of the, like it’s considered like the definitive, um, kind of like investigation into the challenger disaster, which, um, I’ve been obsessed with since I was 10 years old and I was born like a year before it happened. [00:18:54] So, uh, it’s one of those things that, um, I, uh, shouldn’t be [00:19:00] like totally obsessed with, but yet have been for weird reasons my whole life. So it’s really good. Yeah. [00:19:07] Brett: [00:19:07] Yeah, I was in grade school. We were watching it on a TV in the classroom. [00:19:12] Christina: [00:19:12] Yeah, so many kids were, which is horrifying. Um, it’s actually interesting, like fun note and then we’ll end our a read. It’s why Peggy Lipton still has a career because she wrote Reagan’s famous and very good speech that he gave after the disaster that was like considered one of the best political speeches of the last 50 years. [00:19:32] Brett: [00:19:32] Fascinating. So anyway, yeah. Audible helps people get more stories and information you can listen while working from home cooking, exercising on a walk as a family activity, or just relaxing listening helps people feel connected and inspired. Audible can also help with your personal goals, whether you want to learn something new, get more books in your life while doing other things focus on mind and body wellness, or simply enjoy a well-deserved diversion. [00:20:00] [00:20:00] You set your own goals and let audible help you reach them. You can get a 30 day free trial by visiting audible.com/overtired. Or by texting tired, two five zero zero five zero zero. Or as the kids say 500, 500 with everything you want to listen to all in one app audible plus can truly become your playlist for life. [00:20:22] It definitely has for me, I don’t even listen to music in my car anymore. I’m like all audio books. So visit audible.com/overtired or text overtired to five zero zero five zero zero. We’re both obviously big fans of audible and it is awesome to have them as a team. What else should we talk about? [00:20:41] Christina: [00:20:41] Okay. Now we get to finally talk about the real news, like congrats on your job and everything. That’s awesome. [00:20:45] Brett: [00:20:45] Whatever, whatever Taylor Swift, blah, blah, blah. [00:20:48] Christina: [00:20:48] exactly, exactly. Taylor Swift one, uh, like record for a woman anyway. Um, third album of the year, Grammy for folklore. [00:21:00] [00:21:00]Brett: [00:21:00] Yay. [00:21:02] Christina: [00:21:02] No, that’s a big deal. I know it was a good album. I know you didn’t like the album as much and that, that you thought it was sad, [00:21:07] Brett: [00:21:07] No, just to be fair. I don’t care about any Grammys. [00:21:10] Christina: [00:21:10] I don’t [00:21:11] Brett: [00:21:11] not a dis on Taylor specifically, [00:21:14] Christina: [00:21:14] I really don’t care about them either to be honest, except she cares so much and she’d be like pretends, like she doesn’t, but we have, especially if you watched her documentary, which you have to watch because it’s really good. Uh, but if you watch miss Americana, like, it is very much like a, uh, uh, uh, psyche, like, like profile of her, like, you know, we’ve spent years like dissecting her like emotional problems. [00:21:39]Brett: [00:21:39] professionally. Yes. [00:21:41] Christina: [00:21:41] Right. The documentary does that, like it says just as well, all I’m saying is, turns out we weren’t wrong, Brett, on a lot of our stuff with her. So, um, w which makes me love her more because I’m like, yes, all the things I picked up on that like, I love her for is very much accurate [00:22:00] into completely. No, she, but, uh, she one, um, I didn’t know she was going to win or not because the Wars were weird this year. [00:22:07] A it’s a weird year. Did you awards in general? Because it feels like the last year didn’t happen and so much stuff that came out of like art is weird. Uh that’s actually why, I’m glad she won because so many of the other albums that were nominated for album of the year, either came out, you know, before the pandemic started or were clearly started before the pandemic did and like sound like normal albums and don’t. [00:22:33] In any way, like, feel like they were products of like, what actually happened in 2020, which to me, I’m sorry, is disconcerting that the song of the year was, is it’s called, um, I can’t breathe. And it, it was, you know, very much an illusion to, um, all of the, um, you know, uh, police violence against, um, um, uh, black people. [00:22:53] Um, but that was from a relatively unknown, um, songwriter or [00:23:00] her who was very good, but like that song, you know, has zero radio play and zero, uh, kind of name recognition and whatnot. Um, whereas folklore, um, even if I think if you, you didn’t like it, I think L might have liked it more than you did, but like it’s, um, very much a product of, of. [00:23:19] Isolation and pandemic. And like, you feel all that with that. So I was, so I was really glad that, that at one, but she was nominated for five awards. She only won that one. And that’s why that’s one of the things that’s weird is that not always do people sweep it like last year, for instance, Billie Eilish won the big, um, like she went across the board, she won the whole like category. [00:23:38] She went and record album song, um, and, um, uh, like think like pop vocal, like she got like all of the categories and, um, Taylor was, uh, nominated for five. She only won that one. So it was a different person who run record of the year artists at the year, um, or not ours, the Euro record of the year song of the year and, um, uh, [00:24:00] um, album of the year. [00:24:01] So all of those were different, which is not common. You usually have, um, some sort of like at least somebody repeating and one of those things, Beyonce queen B also, uh, one’s Grammy’s N she always gets shut out of the major categories, which is weird and. There’s definitely a racial component to that, but she is now the most or tied as the most awarded Grammy person, like ever performer anyway, like she’s 27 now, um, which she deserves every single one, but, uh, yeah, I was worried that Taylor wasn’t going to win and they had her in the front row. [00:24:38] So it was weird because they only had the attendees present for what categories they were up for. So it wasn’t the typical thing where like they did it outdoors and they presumably had some people in crowds. They had weird crowd noise, but it was very clearly like a laugh tracky clap tracky thing. It didn’t make a lot of sense. [00:24:57] It was, it was, I didn’t love it. [00:25:00] Um, but they had like these tables, they were outside of like the staple center and they were all, you know, separated by, you know, six feet and every person, even though they’re outdoors was wearing masks and they were able to be there with like one other person at their table. [00:25:13]And it was a different setup for each nomination for each major category that they were presenting or whatever. And so they had her in the front and I was like, are they going to have her in the front and then have her lose? Like, that’s pretty shitty, right? Like that’s not cool. And then, and then part of you was like, Oh no, but they wouldn’t do that to her. [00:25:32] Cause she even came and performed and her performance was really good. And I was like, no, they wouldn’t do that to her. And like, unlike a lot of the other rewards where they will bring out the price, Waterhouse, Cooper people to like, be like the integrity of this, you know, uh, award is, is, uh, this and that. [00:25:46] And we haven’t seen the results and we don’t know. And, and we know that because when they made the flub and the Oscars, um, four years ago, one of the greatest live TV moments ever when they announced the wrong winner for best [00:26:00] picture as law land and it turned out to actually be, um, um, for, um, what was it, a midnight? [00:26:06] Um, uh, [00:26:07]Brett: [00:26:07] Are you waiting for me to fill in the blank? Cause I can’t. [00:26:11] Christina: [00:26:11] Yeah, I’m I’m at best picture 2016. Um, is, uh, now the [00:26:18] Brett: [00:26:18] They died cowboy. [00:26:19] Christina: [00:26:19] No, it was Moonlight. That’s it? I’m sorry. I could see the poster in my head. It was Moonlight. Um, so, so when they made that flub, like the reason that they could do that is because the crew had no idea. Like the producers don’t know who wins the Grammys I’m 98% sure is not like that. [00:26:41] Like, it’s not one of those things where like, MTV, they absolutely know the winners in advance I’m, but I’m pretty sure, like, and everybody involved knows the winners in advanced. I’m pretty sure that they call people in are like, we’re not going to tell you what you won, but you won something. Will you please show up? [00:26:57] But the Grammys, [00:27:00] somebody, I feel like in the control room at least like knows. I think, I feel, I feel, I feel, I don’t want to like definitively say that. So that was the one thing in my mind. I was like, Oh, they wouldn’t put her up front just to like have her lose because she would never show up again. [00:27:17] Cause she’s petty like that. But no, but she won and I was very excited also her performance, which is like a medley of songs from folklore and evermore. Very good. It was, I, um, it was not the wop form of performance, which was interesting. Uh, and uh, one of those things that I did actually questioned, I was like, okay, Janet Jackson got canceled for, you know, showing like curb boob for a quarter of a second and this which there’s no nudity. [00:27:44] And to be clear, I didn’t have a problem with her performance, but it was very, very, very MTV. And I’m like, this is this sort of thing that normally would get people like upset, but I don’t think anybody watched. So I don’t think there was a lot of outrage. So, so Taylor won. [00:28:00] Yay. [00:28:00] Brett: [00:28:00] Hey, did we get through Taylor? [00:28:03] Christina: [00:28:03] Shut up. This is important to me and to our, and our listeners, our listeners care about our tailored discourse. No, yes, we’re. We’re done with Taylor. [00:28:10] Brett: [00:28:10] I can name at least two listeners who, who asked me to let them know when we have Taylor free episodes so they can go listen, [00:28:18] Christina: [00:28:18] Awesome. Great. They can skip through that. If we put in chapter markers, they can shift through [00:28:22] Brett: [00:28:22] It’s two people. [00:28:24] Christina: [00:28:24] That’s like half our audience. [00:28:25] Brett: [00:28:25] Oh, stop. That’s not true. [00:28:28] Christina: [00:28:28] I know. I [00:28:29] Brett: [00:28:29] We have tens of hundreds of listeners. Yeah. I, I have watched more of the Brittany Spears documentary than I have of the, uh, Taylor Swift documentary. And I haven’t watched the Billie Eilish documentary. [00:28:45] Christina: [00:28:45] I know we were both supposed to watch that, but you had work stuff and I had work stuff. Um, the Billy one I’ve heard is really good. There’s also a Demi Lovato one that I’m kind of excited about. And I hate to me Lavato laminate is great, [00:29:00] [00:29:00] Brett: [00:29:00] Yeah, I know. I’m just saying as long as we were talking about like music, music related [00:29:06] Christina: [00:29:06] Well, I didn’t expect, I’m going to be honest with you. I didn’t expect you to see lemonade. [00:29:09]Brett: [00:29:09] I would this, we, we talk about Beyonce so little on this podcast. I feel like we’re doing a disservice, but I’ll be honest. I’ve never listened to an entire Beyonce song. [00:29:22] Christina: [00:29:22] I was going to say you don’t, you’re not like this is our generational, like, this is our excuse. We’re close in age, but we’re not like, this is where our generational gap happens because Beyonce is like a year older than me. So she and I are firmly of like the same era and like, You’re you were just past that, like you just, you were never Destiny’s child you and you certainly would not have even entertained pop music when Destiny’s child was a thing like you would, you would have not even [00:29:47] Brett: [00:29:47] you know, I got into like TLC a little bit. [00:29:50] Christina: [00:29:50] yeah, [00:29:51] Brett: [00:29:51] at least I could at least enjoy their songs that like high school dances. [00:29:55] Christina: [00:29:55] Well, that’s what I’m saying, but by the time you’re out of high school. So imagine like five years after TLC, [00:30:00] would you want to listen to like a [00:30:03] Brett: [00:30:03] I didn’t have high school dances anymore. [00:30:05] Christina: [00:30:05] This is what I’m saying, right? So like you missed, this is my point also, and this is, and I have nothing but love for Destiny’s child and, and queen Beyonce herself, but TLC was a better group. [00:30:17] Like they were more talented because the trio was talented. Whereas Destiny’s child, the joke was yeah, well, and the joke was, cause they kept firing numbers, which is hilarious. Uh, and, uh, and honestly, some of the reasons that those girls were fired was fucked up because her dad was the manager and her mom made their costumes. [00:30:36] And the only other girl who was in it the whole time is her cousin. And like, it was, but it was clear from the beginning. Like, I mean, and I feel bad because I don’t want to be like, you knew what you got into. Cause like some of these girls got into it when they were like 11 years old. So like, no, you didn’t know what you got into, but your parents maybe should have. [00:30:54] And I don’t want to even say how many parents would have that, like awareness, but it’s one of those things where I think [00:31:00] everybody was kind of like clean. They were like, no, like, um, This is the Beyonce show and the rest of you are our backgrounders and maybe you’ll get like a chance to sing a verse every now and then. [00:31:11] Right. But like the reason why she was cast so perfectly in dream girls is because that is like the, you know, um, the story of the Supreme is essentially, and she is Diana Ross in that group. Right. Like she, like she was, um, but, um, I guess, I guess, uh, uh, let’s WIO would have been the, um, Effie, but anyway, I’m going to stop that analogy. [00:31:35] But, um, so yeah, but you just barely missed said no, but, but TLC is better because they, um, a, they wrote their own music where they didn’t write all of it, but they wrote some of it like, like, uh, Lisa wrote her wraps and they were more involved in that. Whereas, you know, Destiny’s child was very much singing songs that other people had written in that were, would sound good with their voices. [00:31:55] And there’s nothing wrong with that, but that’s just, that is a difference. And they [00:32:00] were, um, There’s an edge to TLC that you didn’t have, especially the first two albums that you didn’t have with, uh, Destiny’s child ever. Um, so yeah, and I, but anyway, that’s, that’s, I could, I’m going to stop now because I could actually continue to go on about, um, the discourse with, uh, nineties, um, girl groups, because the only two that really exist, not now, I will actually stop after I finish this thought. [00:32:27] It’s interesting. I think about it. There are so many boy bands and, and boy groups like that’s goes, goes throughout history, even now, like BTS, like you see it, there are so few girl groups, like there are so few and it’s, uh, the, the two, you know, that I can literally name off the top of my head would be TLC and Beyonce and TLC, um, especially their, their second album, which, uh, sold like. [00:32:52] 20 million records or something insane is like Seminole. Uh, but, uh, but I also love Destiny’s child and [00:33:00] Ben will never apologize for that because I danced at high school dances to Destiny’s child. [00:33:06] Brett: [00:33:06] If you want, uh, me and me and the two aforementioned listeners, we can, we can just go for awhile. If you give me a time, we can come back. [00:33:15] Christina: [00:33:15] Hi, I’m done. I’m sorry. [00:33:16] Brett: [00:33:16] I forgive you. I [00:33:17] Christina: [00:33:17] talk about sex stuff now. Let’s [00:33:19] Brett: [00:33:19] so you know what? I realized that stupid, obvious, but it just dawned on me yesterday [00:33:24] Christina: [00:33:24] What’s that [00:33:25] Brett: [00:33:25] for every power tool I own. I have 30. Tiny screwdrivers. [00:33:32] Like I have a tiny bit for every possible torics and Phillips head, you could imagine, but only [00:33:40] Christina: [00:33:40] it. [00:33:40] Brett: [00:33:40] the, Oh, I have multiple, I fix it toolkits. And some of the, I have one of their screwdrivers that like, you can, uh, it has like eight different heads in the handle [00:33:52] Christina: [00:33:52] Oh, [00:33:52] Brett: [00:33:52] you like slide the, you slide the driver part out and it pulls the, the bit [00:34:00] back inside and then you rotate the handle. [00:34:02] And when you push it back, it has a different bit. I love that thing. [00:34:05] Christina: [00:34:05] Awesome. [00:34:06] Brett: [00:34:06] Um, and I have one that, uh, it’s just a little pocket screwdriver and it unscrews and on the inside, it holds eight different bits and you, it’s not as cool cause you have to like dump them onto your hand and find the one you want. But it’s very handy. [00:34:21] I keep it on my desk all the time. I only own two. Three prong extension cords, but I have probably a hundred different USB cables in like eight different formats. I definitely, I could fix your sink. Like I can do it. I can even do some basic car maintenance, but I would rather take apart your computer. [00:34:45] Christina: [00:34:45] Yeah. Yeah, no, I, I, so it is interesting. Cause I could take apart your computer. I could take apart like your graphics card. Um, I wouldn’t touch your power supply cause like I don’t want to die. Um, cause capacitors and, but [00:35:00] uh, and like stored energy and I don’t want to die, but I couldn’t take apart your sink. [00:35:06] I couldn’t take apart carburetor. I’m freaked out. Even looking at those things. I think I’ve told you, I might’ve told you this before. Um, the only, it was weird. The thing that finally clicked with me about how like you’ve installed a head unit, like in a car, like if you’re installing like a, like a radio, you know, I guess this wouldn’t be like a Bluetooth, you know, CarPlay unit or whatever, but you know, the old days it used to be like a CD like head unit or whatever that whole process seems so foreign to me until like I finally looked at it and I was like, Oh, so it was like installing a, as a CD rom it’s like in selling a CD drive in a computer and then it was like, yeah. [00:35:39] I was like, Oh, okay. Now I get it. Like, that was like, that was like the way that I had to put into it. So, um, I’m impressed. You can do both to be honest, but it also seems like all of your repair stuff is you’re like, please let me take apart your electronics. [00:35:53] Brett: [00:35:53] I grew up with a very handyman mechanical father. Um, I, I should have learned a lot more than [00:36:00] I did, but through us, Moses, I picked up a lot of handiness [00:36:05] Christina: [00:36:05] Yeah. Um, I wouldn’t say my dad is unhandy, but he’s not handy. Like we had a, uh, he had like a tool, um, like, um, what, what do they call it? Uh, like what’s, what’s the [00:36:16] Brett: [00:36:16] work bench. [00:36:17] Christina: [00:36:17] yeah, thank you. He had a work bench in the, in the garage and he had like a wall of tools and he had. You know stuff. Um, but I think that most of it was performative to be honest. [00:36:28] Cause I don’t ever really recall him fixing anything. Like I guess he could technically if you need it to, but it was like, we’re just going to call someone. Um, he did take the chainsaw to his cast once, which is the most ethic, my dad thing ever. So what happened was he, um, he was hunting deer and he fell from like. [00:36:49] Uh, 10 or 12 foot, like, um, uh, deer stand hunting, stand, whatever. And he tore the ligaments pretty severely in like his left or right leg. [00:37:00] And, um, he was fine other than like the whole ligament tear thing. And they put them in a cast and he had to shower, you know, with like a bag around it. And it was painful. [00:37:10] He didn’t like it. And it was a pain in the ass. And you maybe when a week into this and my mom came downstairs and she sees little bits of like white fibers in the carpet and just small ones. Like not even big ones, just like sign, let me see your leg. No sign. Let me see your leg. No, that muscle fucker hobbled his way to the garage, got a chainsaw and cut off his cast because he was like, this is a pain in the ass. [00:37:37] Um, but, um, yeah, I also, I’m a girl. And not to say that girls can’t be like, just as handy as boys. Cause obviously they can, but we’re in most cases still not socialized to do that. So for me was like, when I was, you know, in my like early teens and I started [00:38:00] getting into computers, that was when I first started taking stuff apart, which is late. [00:38:04] Cause I, a lot of like boys and some girls too, like we’ll take apart, you know, their gadgets and stuff, much younger. But for me it was like, I need to upgrade the Ram in my computer and I need to put in a faster modem. So I’m going to have to figure out how to do this. So. All right. So, so you, you have all these tools. [00:38:21] I think that was going to be a lead into your ultimate hacking keyboard. [00:38:24] Brett: [00:38:24] You know, I, I actually was pondering a segue there. But it, yes, let’s just do that. Let’s say, um, speaking of tiny screws and things that I didn’t have to take apart. So, uh, previously on overtired, uh, you may recall that I had received the ultimate hacking keyboard version too, but it had the wrong bootloader and my options were to take it apart and solder it and, and do stuff with probes that I, I don’t even understand or to send it back to Hungary [00:39:00] and let them do it and send it back. [00:39:02] So I, I went with the latter option. I got, it only took like a week, uh, this time and I had it back in my hands and I have been using it. And it is, I’m going to be when this is officially out and everyone, uh, can go purchase it. I mean, I guarantee there’ll be behind on orders cause it’s a small company and there’s a big demand, but. [00:39:24] I will be very excited to talk to talk about this. It is it’s super cool. [00:39:29] Christina: [00:39:29] Um, so, so can you share anything about it or, [00:39:31] Brett: [00:39:31] sure. Um, I didn’t think I cared about RGB backlighting, but that is the most like prominent feature of V2. And, uh, so like it has all these different layers, mod keys, and mouse keys and function keys. And when you hold down any of the keys that trigger those layers, the lighting changes to show you not only what keys are assigned to that layer, but what kind of keys? [00:39:57] So like modifier keys and [00:40:00] a mouse keys and regular keys and a combo keys. Like they all get different colors. So it’s very easy to remember. Cause my model layer is this bizarre collection of like things that mute my sound or skip tracks and things that are arrow keys and things that are mouse, movement keys. [00:40:18] And it’s really cool to have it like color coded for me. I’m actually really digging that and it has hot swappable switches. So I got blue switches in this one, but what I really want to try are box white switches. I’ve never used box switches of any kind. And I’m very curious about them. So someday after I get bored with these blue switches, I am going to hot swap for box white switches. [00:40:48]Christina: [00:40:48] That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So, um, the big, and also the big change for you because you weren’t really able to play with us before you’ve you obviously were one of the Kickstarter backers and like early enthusiast at the ultimate hacking [00:41:00] keyboard, the original one. Um, but you didn’t have all of the different, um, mod keys, [00:41:06] Brett: [00:41:06] The modules they’ll like [00:41:07] Christina: [00:41:07] The modules, right? Like the thumb modules, but you have them, but you have them now on this one, right? So w w I I’m really curious to hear from your perspective, um, what you think of those, because I know that one of our listeners, like had a really cool setup that we saw, like with his thumb modules of like, with the scrolling stuff. [00:41:23] And that [00:41:24] Brett: [00:41:24] pinky modules for like scrolling stuff. Yeah. Um, [00:41:27] Christina: [00:41:27] just curious, like how you, if you have any of those set up, and if you’ve played with [00:41:30] Brett: [00:41:30] Yeah, totally. Uh, as, as a beta tester, I’ve taken my responsibility very seriously. Um, the mouse modules are there, there it’s a cool idea. I, they won’t replace my track pad for me. Um, I’d like them for scrolling. Uh, it’s really handy to be able to scroll up and down while I’m at my fingers on the keyboard, but the key cluster module that adds three extra keys by my left thumb. [00:41:57] That one I love I’ve gotten right now. It’s just [00:42:00] assigned to. Delete backspace and return. And I’ve gotten, uh, used to the delete key cause normally that’s function backspace. So it’s like a, a stretch from pinky to pinky. And now it’s just moving my thumb over an extra inch and I have a delete key and I’ve totally like my muscle memory is registered that, and I don’t have to. [00:42:23] It’s just cool. It’s fun. Plus you can put those, uh, those three extra keys onto layers. So you can have them do different things with like the modern function layers, uh, which I haven’t developed the muscle memory for all the things I’ve tried yet, but I will like that that module is totally worth having. that module, in addition to three keys, it has a little track ball at the bottom with two buttons. So you can right now I have that set up for scrolling. I don’t use the buttons for clicking, but, uh, it’s kinda it’s all in one. So I don’t need the right hand modules. Uh, I, I, I [00:43:00] think they’re cool. I think some people will we’ll get into them. [00:43:03] I, they don’t have right now, uh, accelerated squirrel, uh, movement. So like, if you want to move, if you have the track ball module on the right and you want to move your mouse across a 27 inch screen, little thumb movements. [00:43:18] Christina: [00:43:18] Oh, see. So, so you have to do an individual thing for each one. [00:43:23]Brett: [00:43:23] what do you mean? [00:43:24] Christina: [00:43:24] Like, like you have to like flick and then flick again. And the flick again, like you can’t just go in a continuous motion, [00:43:29] Brett: [00:43:29] Well, I mean, you can, but your thumb only moves so far. [00:43:33] Christina: [00:43:33] right? No, I mean, I understand that. I’m just saying so, okay. So, so it goes, and then it pauses. So it’s, so it’s not a continuous. [00:43:38] Brett: [00:43:38] Right. [00:43:39] Christina: [00:43:39] That that’s what I’m trying to get. Like, cause when you were saying accelerated, I was assuming software accelerated, meaning that you didn’t have that like momentum scroll, like when you scroll down and you can go faster with more force. [00:43:47] What you’re saying is there’s actually a limit to how far the, how, how the mechanism works. [00:43:55] Brett: [00:43:55] Yeah. And I think that, I think that it’ll get better. I think they’ll improve on [00:44:00] that. Uh, but my feedback was pretty detailed on what I thought would make it better. Uh, but obviously like I have the modules I have and the software is where it’s at. So we’ll see how those develop. Uh, I think out of the, out of the three, I have a track ball attract point and attract pad module. [00:44:20] And out of those three, I think I actually liked the track point, the best. Like I never had one of those PCs with like the J key or whatever. It was the little nipple in the middle compact, I think, used to make them. [00:44:33] Christina: [00:44:33] I know it was a Lenovo. [00:44:35] Brett: [00:44:35] yeah, I never had one of those. So I had never really used a track point of any kind. [00:44:39] Christina: [00:44:39] Yeah, I’m not a fan personally, [00:44:41] Brett: [00:44:41] yeah, if you’re using your thumb though, Attract attract pad. Like the angle gets weird. You actually have to rotate your wrist to get a straight across movement. Uh, and that could be adjusted software, but the track point feels a lot more intuitive [00:45:00] to me. [00:45:00] Christina: [00:45:00] Yeah, no, I think that, that makes sense. And there are people who like S like swear by the nipple thing, like who loved that and who find the PR have amazing precision with that. I personally was never able to really get into it. I think I got close once. It was one of those things I had to like use, I was reviewing a laptop, I think. [00:45:19] And I, I like forced myself. And after like the second or third day, I was like, okay, I can kind of get into this, but it was still not something that was gonna be second nature to me, but I could see, like, especially if you’re able to customize it the way that you can with this, that you could, you know, um, customize and, you know, make adjustments in the software that you could make that work for you. [00:45:38] Brett: [00:45:38] Okay. Uh, so, uh, brain brain switched. Do you fidget? [00:45:45] Christina: [00:45:45] Oh yeah. [00:45:46] Brett: [00:45:46] Um, man, I, it has gotten really bad for me lately. I have this, I don’t know when I started doing it, but I, like, I rubbed the back of my fingernails against the Palm of my hand from like bass to fingertip and I go back and [00:46:00] forth and it’s not something I was doing consciously, but it’s become such a habit for me that I got like raw, like it actually hurts and I’ll find myself doing it and realize that I’m doing it. [00:46:13] And my hands will be like stingy almost from doing it so much. And it’s just a light touch. It’s like a tickle almost. But you do that a thousand times. Oh man, I fidget has gotten bad for me. I need a, I need a new fidget toy. [00:46:28] Christina: [00:46:28] Yeah. I fidget. And like, part of the reason that I bite my nails or whatever I think is I used to always blame it on anxiety and I’m sure that’s part of it, but I think a bigger part of it is just like, It’s a fidget thing. It’s just one of those things that I do is the same reason. Like there will be like, if I have, like, when I was little, I like this, I try not to do this now, but then usually I don’t have the scaps now, but like, if I would have like a scab or whatever, like, you know, like, you know, like you pick at it, you know, and there are other little things where if I would find like a, a bump on my skin or whatever, I’d be like, okay, I’m gonna like [00:47:00] fixate on that. [00:47:01] They’re just, they’re things that, um, yeah, I definitely am a fidgeter, [00:47:05] Brett: [00:47:05] Do you have a fit? Do you have a fidget toy that works for you? [00:47:09] Christina: [00:47:09] but I should get one. My in general, my fidget toy is my phone. Um, the game threes is really good for me. The game three’s is like my favorite fidget toy. If I’m being totally [00:47:19] Brett: [00:47:19] Absolutely. I have never been able to let go of threes. [00:47:23] Christina: [00:47:23] me either, it’s one of my favorites and, and I’m still mad that like, um, uh, you know, uh, what was it like a 20, 48 or whatever, you know, like, like stole it and [00:47:32] Brett: [00:47:32] But 20, 48 didn’t stick for me. Like I [00:47:35] Christina: [00:47:35] No me either. I meet you, but it. Is another way as well, because they didn’t have the physics. I think for me, the physics of threes is just the way that it feels and is like springy. [00:47:45] I don’t know it’s because I need that [00:47:46] Brett: [00:47:46] is a perfect game [00:47:48] Christina: [00:47:48] is a perfect game. So threes is one of those that I play in meetings to this day, all the time. Um, and I always have to explain to people and some people are open to this. Some people are absolutely [00:48:00] [00:48:00] Brett: [00:48:00] better while you’re playing. [00:48:02] Christina: [00:48:02] Yes. And some people are really open to that and some people are really not. [00:48:05] And it’s kind of interesting because we are now having in the industry. Uh, and you’ll probably find this out more now that you’re going to be, and maybe you will, maybe you won’t be, maybe you won’t be more on, on, um, like a developer like corporate developer, Twitter, but in corporate developer, Twitter, There are all these conversations about how people work and about mental health and about, um, like ADHD and about other stuff and, um, ADHD, especially for people who’ve been diagnosed as adults has become this really big thing over the last, I would say 18 to 24 months, uh, which, um, is interesting and, and is great for me as someone who’s. [00:48:43] I mean, I was technically diagnosed as a teenager, but, um, uh, I really didn’t like know that I had it until I was, um, a young adult. Um, you know, like, like probably like the 20, um, I would say that it was clear to me that it was more than just [00:49:00] the fact that, um, the medication was helping counteract some of the side effects that some of the other medications and that I’d kind of had this latent ADHD newness. [00:49:11] My whole life just cause my perfectionism hit it so well. But, um, so it’s been great for me to like add these conversations cause you and I have obviously been very open about talking about our own struggles, um, and coping mechanisms for years. But now it’s becoming this weird industry conversation, which is great. [00:49:26] But the hilarious thing is, is that a bunch of employers and people all want to be like, woke about it and woke about like how you can be accommodating to people with it. But I have still run into situations, obviously less working from home because people can’t see you unless you turn your camera on. [00:49:42] But I have run into situations where, cause I always explained to managers and I did this at, in journalism jobs, done the separate room. Like, Hey, if I’m on my phone and I’m not looking at you, I’m so sorry. I know that’s rude, but this is literally the only way I can concentrate. Like this is how I deal with this. [00:49:58] And you can ask [00:50:00] me, you know, follow up questions. I assure you I’m listening. If I’m not in it’s, you know, becoming like a thing, then we can talk about it. But like. This, this is my accommodation. This is what I need. And some people have been open to it. Some people like I would say most people probably don’t believe me when I say that. [00:50:14] Right. I would say the, the initial reaction from most people, managers, people that I’ve told that to is that they say, okay, and then they’re rolling their eyes internally and being like she’s full of shit. And just must be on her phone with a lawyer over time. Is that cause I’ll pipe in and I’ll talk and have full understanding of everything that’s been said is that I’m actually correct. [00:50:35] And, and that, that I’m focusing on. Exactly. You know, like I said, I was, but there’s some people who just dismiss that out of hand. And I had a manager at my job, um, who. He was kind of dismissive. In fact, when I told him about something, he was like, well, you’re just you like the way he I’d explained it to him early on. [00:50:54] And when he was talking about how he gave a presentation and people didn’t seem engaged. And I was like, well, you know, I was listening, but I was, you [00:51:00] know, on my phone. Cause that’s what I do. He was like, well, yeah, that’s just like the way he said it about me. I was like, it was really dismissive. And it was really one of those things. [00:51:07] I was like, this is really, this makes me feel pretty shitty to be honest. Um, so it’s interesting that like we’re now having all these conversations about adult fidget toys and about how we deal with our ADHD and whatnot. But at the same time, there is still, there’s like this latent disconnect, I think between like how accommodating and woken aware people want to appear in public and then how they act in private. [00:51:33] But I will say it is at least getting better. And the fact that it is becoming like a public conversation that people like want to be on the right side of it is certainly a good thing. It’s certainly one of those things where we’re like. Well, yeah, play your game, play your plate player. Three’s game. Get your fidget toy. [00:51:49] Brett: [00:51:49] I think in schools too, like I think, uh, like I’ve heard anyway, that teachers are making more accommodations for students who actually are going to [00:52:00] learn better if they’re allowed to fidget with something at their desks, because historically they would take away [00:52:05] Christina: [00:52:05] they would take that away. Yes, no, they would take it away and they would, they would, it was terrible. Like I used to draw in class. I used to do other things. Like I remember I used to actually, it’s hilarious. And I think back, I used to write my notes backwards and, um, yeah, because that was a way for me to have to do two things at once. [00:52:25] Like that would be how my brain could like deal with everything happening is I would write my notes backwards, cause that would require an extra layer of concentration and totally, um, all, and then I would get in trouble for writing my notes backwards. Sometimes it’d be like, you’re not reading my notes. [00:52:41] What, what the hell do you care? Um, So this day I can write very well backwards. Uh, but yeah, I remember getting in trouble for playing on my calculator, like in English class and, you know, I’ll be playing Tetris and was like, what is this? And wanting me to answer something I’m like, I already did the reading. [00:52:59] This is what [00:53:00] we were talking about, you know? And, but I I’d get yelled at. Um, so I’ve heard that too anecdotally, that teachers are being more accommodating, which is great, but yeah. Um, I need a new three’s is my fidget toy that I probably need to get like another one, but I would say my phone [00:53:12] Brett: [00:53:12] I do feel like we have a fair number of ADHD and, and neuro atypical people in our listenership. So I’m putting on her an official call, let us know on discord or on Twitter. What’s a good fidget toy for adults. Like I just, I need something. That’s not gonna make my hands turn raw. [00:53:33] Christina: [00:53:33] exactly. Let’s get bread and new fidget toy. Like what can we get him? [00:53:36]Brett: [00:53:36] I have one that’s like a dodecahedron with like a different kind of like button or switch on every side of it. And it’s kind of perfect, except it’s big enough that it doesn’t make a great little like, like I need something I can just play with, like in my lap without even having to look down. And that fits in the Palm of my hand very [00:54:00] easily. [00:54:00] I’ll I’ll find something [00:54:01] Christina: [00:54:01] Would a Rubin, would a Rubix would a Rubik’s cube work? [00:54:07] Brett: [00:54:07] Don’t I don’t know. Maybe that might actually feel a lot like threes. I’ve never solved the Rubik’s cube in my life. Yeah, [00:54:16] Christina: [00:54:16] I haven’t either, but I keep seeing it, like, I knew all these YouTube videos where they’ll show people who can solve them, like insanely quickly. And then that excites me cause I’m like, Oh, there’s a pattern involved with this. You just need to learn the pattern. And that is one of those things that, that excites me. [00:54:29] But I would think even without like solving it, just maybe even the motions of, you know, doing it would be. [00:54:36]Brett: [00:54:36] yeah. Yeah. What’s your three’s high score. [00:54:40]Christina: [00:54:40] let me find it. [00:54:42]Brett: [00:54:42] I will, while you look, I will say that my high score and I’ve gotten, like, I keep getting really close to it, but 187,350 is where I’ve maxed out. [00:54:56] Christina: [00:54:56] Wow. That is amazing. Yeah. I’m I’m at, uh, [00:55:00] like I’ve only gotten as high as seven 68. So like, as, as my match, I’ve never been able to get past that. So I’m at my, my, my threes is like 30,000. [00:55:10]Brett: [00:55:10] I’ve hit the three Oh seven two a couple of times. [00:55:14] Christina: [00:55:14] Wow. Wow. I go so fast. You take your time with it or do you go super fast? [00:55:18] Brett: [00:55:18] I would say I’m in the, in the middle. Like if I go super fast, it’s going to be a shorter game. If I stop in. And sometimes I just get in this groove where I’m actually in and the times that I get the highest score these times when I’m actually seeing, I’m doing the math ahead of like, I’m seeing that this three could easily become a 24. [00:55:40] If I move, like, like I’ll see all the pieces and I’ll be able to put them together more than one move and advance, and I’m not just reacting to what’s new on the screen. Um, those are the times that I score really well. And I don’t know how it is. I get into that groove. It just happens [00:55:58] Christina: [00:55:58] It just happens. [00:56:00] That’s interesting. Yeah. I’ve had that happen a couple of times. Um, I play a lot of match three games as well, and sometimes that’s the same way where you just like, you know, you’re on. And those are obviously, I mean, there’s a chance element to threes as well. Um, but, but, but those are, uh, you know, like, like the big, you know, the, the, the class of games that Bejeweled created and then didn’t really profit from, um, I, I play those games and yeah, there are times when you’re just kind of like, you know, that the game is going to go well, you’re like, you’re like, okay, this is going to be like a high score game. [00:56:31] Tetris is like that too. Um, I love Tetris, like Tetris is. One of those, like, I’m surprised they haven’t done this. Maybe they have, they probably have, uh, but I’m kind of surprised that they haven’t just made like a handheld version, like, like the old tiger games, things like of Tetris, you know what I mean? [00:56:49] Cause just I’m, I’m not in favor of single use devices, but I would totally get something like Nintendo could actually introduce stupid. They should just release. [00:57:00] Cause they released this game and watch thing for like their 30th anniversary or whatever and or 35th anniversary or something and Mario’s 35th anniversary or something. [00:57:11] And I never used the game in wash. I’ve no idea that it was even a real thing. I thought that there were like a watch component to it. It turns out it was just like a clock. I don’t even know. Um, but it was like a really early handheld game kind of thing. And um, they should have just released, they should just release like. [00:57:29] A game, boy that’s like that, but is smaller. But his style, like the original game boy that has the original Tetris with the original music on it. And it has like a monochrome screen and they should sell it for 50 bucks and they would sell 10 million of them. [00:57:44] Brett: [00:57:44] You ever played 3d Tetris? [00:57:46] Christina: [00:57:46] Yes. I love that. [00:57:48] Brett: [00:57:48] It’s pretty fun. And it makes me think that there should be an AR 3d Tetris by now. [00:57:55] Christina: [00:57:55] There should, there should, there should definitely be like a, an AR or like a virtual like [00:58:00] Tetris. Yeah. 100%. You’re exactly right. I, Oh my God. An AR Tetris would be so fun because you could move stuff around. That would, Oh my God. [00:58:09]Brett: [00:58:09] All right. We’re, we’re both quitting our awesome tech jobs and we’re going into, we’re starting a development company to make a, our 3d Tetris and it’s going to be a huge hit and we’re never going to have to worry about money again. [00:58:21]Christina: [00:58:21] Yeah. Except for the whole licensing of Tetris, but yes. [00:58:25] Brett: [00:58:25] There’s always something. [00:58:27]Christina: [00:58:27] But it’s a good idea. We should maybe bring it to those people and be like, Hey, we have this idea. Pay us, you know, [00:58:34] Brett: [00:58:34] Here’s your nondisclosure agreement and here’s my demands. Um, anyway. All right. We should go. [00:58:43] Christina: [00:58:43] Yeah, we should go. But, um, huge news for you this week. Congratulations. I’m so happy for you. [00:58:51] Brett: [00:58:51] Thank [00:58:51] Christina: [00:58:51] So happy for you and a huge news for Taylor Swift. Most importantly, [00:58:55] Brett: [00:58:55] Most importantly, yes, I okay. [00:59:00] I’m just gonna, um, yeah. Okay. We’ll we’ll just be happy for Taylor Swift. I don’t have to poopoo on this. I don’t have to be a deck about this. [00:59:07] Christina: [00:59:07] no, you don’t just, just be happy for Taylor. Like you don’t have to, like, you don’t have to. I mean, look, I think we all kind of agree. Like the institution institutional cream is bullshit, but like [00:59:14] Brett: [00:59:14] Plus I don’t want to hurt her feelings when she listens to this podcast. So, [00:59:18] Christina: [00:59:18] This is very true. She’s cause [00:59:20] Brett: [00:59:20] for listening, Taylor. Congratulations. [00:59:23] Christina: [00:59:23] congratulations. Taylor, thank you for listening to us. [00:59:26]No, but for real, um, uh, congrats to you on, uh, on that gig. I’m so excited for you for that. And, uh, also congrats on getting the ultimate hacking keyboard because that’s very exciting. [00:59:38] Brett: [00:59:38] Oh, you know what we have to talk about next time is mano space fonts with ligatures. [00:59:43] Christina: [00:59:43] yes, yes. I have many thoughts. I have many thoughts. [00:59:47] Brett: [00:59:47] I’ll add it to add it to next. Week’s show notes. [00:59:50] Christina: [00:59:50] There’s a really good one that, um, Microsoft put out that’s from the WSL and the windows terminal team called, um, uh, Cascadia, [00:59:57] Brett: [00:59:57] Yeah. I’ve been trying that out. Yeah. [01:00:00] I still love jet brains, but yeah, I [01:00:02] Christina: [01:00:02] do too. I love zipper. I love the jet brains or JetBrains mano, where the hell they call it. I love that one. Um, I like dank. Um, I have a bunch of them, um, cause I’ve been [01:00:12] Brett: [01:00:12] been at least a couple episodes since we’ve had a good monospace font discussion. [01:00:17] Christina: [01:00:17] Yeah. It’s been like a year. I feel like. So it’s time for us. [01:00:21] Brett: [01:00:21] I think it’s been like a few months. [01:00:24] Christina: [01:00:24] okay. It’s been a few months, but we can talk about this again. [01:00:27] Brett: [01:00:27] Okay. Deal. [01:00:28] Christina: [01:00:28] w we’ll talk about it again. I don’t think we got into the ligature conversation really the [01:00:32] Brett: [01:00:32] feel like, I feel like that might be new ground for us. [01:00:35] Christina: [01:00:35] Yeah. And then we give the ligature thing. We can also talk about like our feelings on like, um, uh, PS lines and some of the other, like out on scripts and like, where do you fall on that dichotomy? [01:00:45] Like, is, does it ruin? Cause there are some people who even think ligatures are bad, but there’s, there’s, there’s like a whole purist discussion about like how you add stuff to your, to your monospace bonds and, and with your command line setup, I would love to get into the politics of that with you [01:00:58] Brett: [01:00:58] Sounds good. [01:01:00] All right, Christina, get some sleep. [01:01:03] Christina: [01:01:03] get some sleep bread.

Privacy matters are high on the topic list today, what with Google and Brave and all the shenanigans. But so are shells… we got some zsh, some bash, and even some fish. So, to summarize, privacy and shells. We’ve been criticized for taking too long to get to the point, so I want to be as concise as possible. Which I’m ruining by explaining it. Guess I proved their point for them. Sponsors Nebia: The Nebia by Moen Spa Shower uses 45% less water while providing a serious upgrade to your shower time. The first 100 people to use code overtired at Nebia.com will get 15% off all Nebia products. Just head to Nebia.com/Overtired to improve your shower experience. Headspace: Find some peace of mind during stressful times with Headspace: mindful meditations, sleep stories, and focus soundtracks to get you through your day (and night). Visit Headspace.com/Overtired for a free one-month trial. TextExpander: The tool neither Christina nor Brett would want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links EFF On Google targeted advertising Four Big Questions about Google’s New Privacy Position Twelve Million Phones, One Dataset, Zero Privacy Fish shell Brave buys a search engine Lynx DuckDuckGo !bang searches (Seriously, there’s a !terp search) Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett [00:00:00] Christina: [00:00:00] You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren. He’s Brett Terpstra. Hey Brett, how are you? [00:00:05] Brett: [00:00:05] I, so I’m like in the weeds building this, you know, bunch. My, my like automation app that I’ve been kind of obsessed with. I decided it can run shell scripts. So you should be able to see the output of shell scripts. And so I built this entire system that, uh, not only does it load like your full log-in shell environment, it also converts, uh, like ANSI color codes in your output. [00:00:34] Two attributed strings that it can display in a nice Menlo presentation. Anyway, I that’s where my brain is right now. So I’ll come around. I’m ADHD. Uh, it’s common symptom is trouble switching tasks. I’ll get there. [00:00:54] Christina: [00:00:54] you’ll get there. Um, no, but I mean, I think, I think the, I like this, [00:01:00] that, uh, this is where your brain is. And I would honestly, this got us talking about, about shell scripts, uh, or I guess about, Shell’s not shell scripts with shells in general, because you put fish on our list and that was going to be like a later topic. [00:01:16] But I just want to talk about it now because I really like talking about like shell [00:01:20] Brett: [00:01:20] jump into tech, just we’ll lose. You lose that portion of our audience right off the bat that [00:01:26] Christina: [00:01:26] Okay. You’re right. You’re okay. Okay. You’re right. We know. Okay. Well, I was going to say, should we do like the health corner first, but I felt like this was sort of associated with the health corner. Cause like, this is what your mind was on. [00:01:39] Brett: [00:01:39] Um, You know, let’s I let’s break tradition. Um, [00:01:44] Christina: [00:01:44] are you sure? Cause we can just go to the health Corps and then come back to fish. [00:01:47] Brett: [00:01:47] I’m not sure I’m finding, it’s making me uncomfortable, but in my life I’ve I generally go with things that make me uncomfortable because it [00:01:53] Christina: [00:01:53] no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. Let’s start with the health corner. Let’s talk about, let’s talk about, let’s talk about the health corner. So [00:01:59] Brett: [00:01:59] mental [00:02:00] health, I want to, I want to read this line from discord, uh, in regards to last week show. [00:02:07] Uh, SMA said, um, today’s episode is great. Putting scheduling slash sponsors ahead of sleep is entirely on brand. [00:02:19] Christina: [00:02:19] Estimate nailed it. Totally. 100% on brand. [00:02:25] Brett: [00:02:25] you know what I realized this morning? So I didn’t realize I have Tourette, but I realized that so my Tourette shows up in muscle twitches. Um, like I’ll, I’ll get a feeling that I absolutely need to tighten or, or flex a muscle at and like all over my body. But. Primarily in my legs. And I realized while I’m doing tree and yoga this morning, that the, the one thing that always, uh, knocked me over in balance poses is my Tourette’s. [00:02:58] Like, it never clicked for me [00:03:00] before, but I realized that like I had to twist to be able to flex a muscle in my calf. And that it’s that slight twisting just to Twitch a muscle that ruins my balance poses. It’s it’s a little funny. Yeah. Uh, did you ever see that, uh, uh, when Billy Eilish, she also has threats that manifest much the same way, um, that she, during interviews, she, uh, she’ll wait until the interviewer is asking a question because she assumes the camera will then be on them and she lets out she’ll like, hold in her muscle twitches and then let them out when the camera switches away. [00:03:43] Uh, but she told that she tells a story about how one time the camera didn’t switch away. So in the middle of like a televised interview, she just went off with her face. It was, yeah. Did you watch the Billie Eilish documentary yet [00:03:58] Christina: [00:03:58] I haven’t seen it yet. No. [00:04:00] Um, [00:04:00] Brett: [00:04:00] I want to. [00:04:01] Christina: [00:04:01] I do as well, because I really, really like her. And I, uh, I ha I have watched, I guess, for like the last four years or however long they’ve been doing it, where she answers the same questions with vanity fair, you know? Um, but, but each year it’s, it’s changed. They got really lucky there because obviously she like broke out big with, with ocean eyes or whatever when they first like, had her for that thing. [00:04:24] But I mean, that was kind of one of those, you know, Maybe not one in a million, but probably one in 500,000 sort of things where the purse where somebody they already had kind of a relationship with would wind up breaking out the way that she did. [00:04:40] Brett: [00:04:40] Yeah. Yeah. She deserves it though. I really [00:04:43] Christina: [00:04:43] He does. I really like her too. I like her brother. I liked them a lot. And, [00:04:48] Brett: [00:04:48] name? He has a funny name, Denise? Yeah. I mean, not like funny name, but it’s an odd name. [00:04:56] Christina: [00:04:56] It’s it’s an well, yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s an uncommon [00:05:00] name for sure. Yeah. [00:05:01] Brett: [00:05:01] uncommon. So we are we’re recording. His episode is actually going to go up a little late because we’re recording a day late and then hours on top of that, because both of us had psych psychiatry appointments and I, so I ended up canceling. Uh, a second podcast recording yesterday. Like the first one was a scheduling conflict. [00:05:29] The second one, I found that after my psychiatry appointment, which went great, I was super anxious. Like something about going to see the psychiatrist gets me very, um, riled up. And then I feel like I can’t, I don’t know what it is. I think it’s a tip a general, like, I get the same with going to the doctor. [00:05:53] It’s just like a, a white coat syndrome kind of thing. [00:05:56] Christina: [00:05:56] Oh, I can see that. Okay. [00:05:58] Brett: [00:05:58] But yours was just this morning and you’re [00:06:00] clearly, uh, you’re clearly holding it together better than I, [00:06:04] Christina: [00:06:04] Well, I think the difference too, I’ve been with this shrink, uh, except for like my dark period when I ghosted him for so long that. I don’t have, I don’t know. I mean, you know, it, it, it’s close to 20 years at this point, so it’s been such a long standing relationship that I don’t have, I guess maybe some of the anxiety that you might have from a normal doctor appointment sort of thing. [00:06:33] I don’t know. [00:06:34] Brett: [00:06:34] What? Yeah, no, there was the psychiatrist that I saw for, like, it must’ve been. Eight to 10 years, uh, before he retired, I was comfortable with, I never got freaked out, going to see him. Uh, it was after that when like the next doctor cut my meds and, uh, left me with this like, fear of going [00:06:56] Christina: [00:06:56] right. I was going to say now, [00:06:58] Brett: [00:06:58] what’ll happen. [00:06:59] Christina: [00:06:59] I was going to say, [00:07:00] now you have like a very real fear response. Right? And so you go into it kind of with this, you know, like almost PTSD sort of thing. And then you have, you know what I mean? And then it’s like, okay, we, you get out of it and you feel like the sense of relief, but you’ve had this anxiety and this. [00:07:16] This pent up, like uncertainty going into it. Like, I can totally see that, like I’m, I’m my shrink is going to my psychiatrist. He’s going to retire at some point he’s 75. It’s going to be sooner than later, and I’m going to need to find someone and I’m not looking forward to that. I don’t even know how I’m going to handle that because, you know, uh, [00:07:36] Brett: [00:07:36] Yeah, [00:07:37] Christina: [00:07:37] you know, like, [00:07:38] Brett: [00:07:38] know the feeling. [00:07:39] Christina: [00:07:39] No. [00:07:39] I mean, and it’s one of those things that like, okay, that actually makes me anxious. Right? Like thinking about things that like make me anxious, that makes me anxious thinking about finding a new person, because it is such a, as we’ve discussed on this show for years, like it is one of those things that will make or break. [00:07:54] I think anybody’s mental health treatment plan is what, um, doctor you have [00:08:00] and or what counselor you’re talking to because I’ve had bad ones. And I’ve had good ones and I’ve been lucky that I’ve had two good ones and I’ve had a whole bunch of bad ones and many of them are not good. Right. It’s just one of those things where, especially with the state of, of medicine being what it is and, and how insurance things work, it’s not easy to find somebody good. [00:08:24] And, and it’s, what’s stressful to me about this, which is going to be different whenever I have to do this again, different about when I did last time is I’ve never done this as an adult. I had the, in many ways, I’m not saying it was in any way positive, cause it certainly wasn’t. But going through a lot of this stuff as a kid, as a teenager, the one upside was that, you know, you do have a sense of like time to experiment because, okay, I missed a bunch of school and I had other things and like that’s bad, but it’s not as if [00:09:00] you can’t take those days or take that time to find it. [00:09:03] Whereas as an adult, it’s like, I need to find someone who will get me my meds, and then maybe I can try to figure out like the, the better. Alignment of who the right person is. Um, and I guess I had to do that as a kid, too. There were people that I saw, like I called a guy in my phone, like Dr. Kevorkian. Um, although, you know, that wasn’t like an accurate thing. [00:09:24] He was just, he was useless. Uh, he was just basically a grant, saw a guy who he called Dr. Worksheet. And that’s basically what this guy was. He would just write me my meds and. So it’s like, okay, you can find like a stop gap for that. But if you want to find a real person like that takes time and effort and energy, and that can be very much the equivalent of a full-time job in and of itself, just to try to find the right doctors. [00:09:49] Brett: [00:09:49] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, at least you have options where I live. I have the hospital. Like the mental health division of the [00:10:00] hospital, which has not had an actual psychiatrist. Uh it’s all, all, uh, Pete PAs. Is that the word I’m looking for? [00:10:09] Christina: [00:10:09] Yeah, physician’s assistance. [00:10:11] Brett: [00:10:11] like they haven’t had a full-on doctor for probably five years now. They can’t hold on to anybody. [00:10:18] Um, In fact, not, probably not since my doctor retired, who I was seeing through there, but then we have a mental health clinic that has two psychiatrists, which are, um, I w I at best, there they are. Okay. That’s where I’m going now. And my doctor is okay. Uh, I would say I never feel really terribly listened to, um, Or beyond that you have to go out of town. [00:10:47] Like I there’s really no shopping around to do, which sucks. The nearest, the nearest, if I have to go out of town, it’s at least a half hour drive to the [00:11:00] next option. I don’t want to do that. I don’t like driving that much. [00:11:07] Christina: [00:11:07] I fancy that, although half an hour, I don’t know. This is just me growing up places where, and living places where traffic is terrible. I’m like a half an hour is whatever. Like I did actually live very close to my psychiatrist for a number of years. Although when I started seeing him, I don’t believe I lived that close to him. [00:11:25] And so he was literally almost across the street. And so it was when he, I could like walk to his office, but, uh, you know, many of my other doctors. Growing up anyway, it was different when I was in college. And then after, because I lived in, in the city, but it was not uncommon to have to, you know, drive into, you know, Atlanta proper to go to like the specialist that I would go to. [00:11:49] Brett: [00:11:49] I can’t do traffic anymore. I’m so used to like in, in, in Wynnona, uh, it takes 10 minutes to get anywhere and rush hour means it takes like 12 minutes. [00:12:00] It’s, it’s ridiculously small and there’s ridiculously few cars on the road. And I that’s one of my top three things about why I want to live in a small town. [00:12:13] Christina: [00:12:13] No, that makes sense. I mean, I definitely, I don’t like cars. I don’t like driving, but, uh, I don’t really have like a choice in terms of, you know, I need to take Uber or whatever I can walk and I guess, you know, public transit will be. Or I’ll feel more comfortable at public transit once I’ve had a vaccine, uh, which who knows when that’s going to be what’s the, what’s the rollout or what’s kind of the update process. [00:12:35] How are things going in Minnesota with the vaccine rollout? [00:12:37] Brett: [00:12:37] um, they’re still mostly doing old people in frontline workers, but I signed up for their, uh, the government has a vaccine tracker. They call it it’ll basically keep you informed as, as, uh, stuff becomes available and you can enter like comorbidities and stuff that you have. Uh, and as, as, as the vaccine becomes available for [00:13:00] people in your group of vulnerable vulnerability, uh, they’ll send you a text message. [00:13:06] And so now I sit and wait, L is fully vaccinated. [00:13:10] Christina: [00:13:10] That’s awesome. That’s that’s so good. So she, she got the Pfizer one, right? [00:13:15] Brett: [00:13:15] I think it was Madrona. [00:13:16] Christina: [00:13:16] Madrona. Okay. Yeah. That’s the one that my parents got. So did like her arm hurt after the second dose? Yeah. Okay. [00:13:22] Brett: [00:13:22] days. Um, you want to, she, she got her new job. Do you wanna hear about her new job? [00:13:28] Christina: [00:13:28] I totally want to hear about her new job. [00:13:30] Brett: [00:13:30] know how she’s into knitting? Maybe you don’t know, but she’s [00:13:33] Christina: [00:13:33] Well, I remember you telling me that she’s into that. [00:13:35] Brett: [00:13:35] when she was sick and dealing with Lyme, uh, she got into knitting and it became like, I would say a passion. She, she, she’s very passionate about knitting and she makes amazing stuff like. [00:13:47] I’ve known people who have knitted for, you know, most of their lives and are not creating stuff as cool as I think, but also I love her to death, so maybe I’m biased. But anyway, she, uh, there, there [00:14:00] a job opened up at a local, uh, yarn store called yarn analogy. And so she, she applied and, uh, went through the process. [00:14:11] Uh, it w once they kind of got down to brass tacks, it didn’t sound like they would be able to pay her enough, but they, they texted her the next day or emailed her and said, Hey, we crunched some numbers. We can match what you’re making now. And I got to tell you she’s been there about a week and she is so happy. [00:14:31] Like she comes home laughing every day. And at her previous job, working with, uh, loud non-verbal people and, uh, direct care stuff. She came home tired and stressed and, uh, smelling like Febreeze, which with her chemical sensitivity required like an immediate shower after getting home. Things are so different. [00:14:53] It’s like night and day. She’s so much happier. Now, [00:14:56] Christina: [00:14:56] Yay. I’m so happy to hear this. Yay for [00:15:00] neurology and yay for El. Like this is great. [00:15:02] Brett: [00:15:02] speaking of new jobs, I applied for one, [00:15:05] Christina: [00:15:05] Okay. [00:15:06] Brett: [00:15:06] um, Oracle has started a developer relations team. [00:15:13] Christina: [00:15:13] Uh huh. [00:15:14] Brett: [00:15:14] they’re, uh, they’re I talked to the, the head of it and they’re basically fighting against like Oracle’s 40 years of, um, yeah. Uh, the old guard and they’re working to try to build something that can make Oracle relevant for another 40 years. [00:15:33] And they’re looking for, uh, content writers, uh, content editors. And developer advocates and kind of the job positions they have are kind of a mix of all, all of those things. And, uh, uh, Victor from two are actually. Hooked me up with, uh, the guy at Oracle. Uh, we had a good chat and he, he spent a few days [00:16:00] reading my entire blog apparently and said that he, he thought I’d be a great addition to the team. [00:16:05] And so I sent her an application and I, I dunno, man, I don’t know if I want a day job, but also. It sounds like a fun job doing interesting things. And I bet it would pay better than being an independent developer right now. [00:16:23] Christina: [00:16:23] It would definitely pay better and you would get better benefits, which would be good for some of your other stuff. Uh, also as somebody who is a developer advocate, like it’s a fun job. I mean, it’s a lot of what the stuff that you’ve been doing naturally for years, honestly, like your blog is a great resume for, um, you know, um, developer relations because all the side projects and stuff you build, right? [00:16:45] Like, [00:16:46] Brett: [00:16:46] and I I’ve become over like 10 years of writing my blog and writing for like Mac stories and Macworld, um, and to, uh, Like I’ve, I’ve learned to very, uh, very easily [00:17:00] predict what people aren’t going to understand, what people are going to be offended by what people are going to have questions about. [00:17:08] And I can write in such a way that I can explain things, um, uh, proactively to, to make I can break very clearly, but I can write in, uh, an informal tone. That still conveys information very clearly. And that’s not like that’s a learned skill and I’ve been in the weeds on that. [00:17:31] Christina: [00:17:31] It’s a learned skill, but it’s also one I’m going to argue. I think that there’s part of it. That is an innate thing. Like being able to being a good explainer, like you can definitely learn it and you can become better at it, but there are. People who are more predisposed to do it than others. And, and I think the people who are more predisposed tend to be the people who find a way to do it naturally. [00:17:49] Like, you know, even going back to your, your, your two off in download squad, blogging days, like when you and I met, like that had an element of that to it. Right. But everything you’ve done for your personal blog and for the other places [00:18:00] you’ve written definitely has like, you nail that tone. I mean, I would say the same for myself. [00:18:05] You’re, you’re better than I am in terms of. You know, like your, your technical ability, but I feel like I’m very good at breaking down complicated things. And I know an understanding, like you said, what people are going to need context about and what people are gonna need information about. And that is a, it is a learned thing, but it is also one of those things. [00:18:25] I think that there are people who are good at it naturally are drawn to those things like that was me doing journalism. And I think this is why it was an easy transition for me into developer relations. Because we talked about this on systematic, because a lot of it is like, just kind of knowing your audience and knowing how to explain something. [00:18:44] Um, like in, in my interview with Microsoft, my, what I white boarded was, how did, how would you break down a complicated story? And I, I broke down because it didn’t, it just happened. I had written a very complicated story about, uh, [00:19:00] the then, um, Oh, I guess he still is. He’s in jail now. He was recently sent back or whatever, but the, uh, de facto head of Samsung was involved in this scandal with the then prime minister of South Korea. [00:19:15] And there’s all this shiny ball stuff. And it was very complicated and it was one of those things where, um, I knew the story was interesting and I pitched it to my editors and was originally they kind of dismissed it. And then they came back a couple, like a month or so later. And they’re like, Oh no, we want this story written now. [00:19:33] And I was like, well, mother fucker, God, you know, cause it was really complicated and it was one of those things where we had to explain. I had to explain the shy ball system. I had to explain the, uh, different, uh, w which is unique to South Korea and how their corporations work. I had to explain the infighting happening within the Lee family, in which control Samsung had to explain the different bribery and other, um, you know, like, um, uh, you know, like, [00:20:00] uh, corruption scandals happening within the government. [00:20:03] You know, there were like all these moving parts and. Had to kind of weave it into a way that people who weren’t deeply in the weeds could do it. And some of it too was because as I’d kind of gone down the rabbit hole, that’s why I’d want to try the story to begin with. Like I had to learn about that stuff myself, which is also a thing that is frequently, at least for me. [00:20:21] And I think for you too, like we, we have a problem we need to solve from a development standpoint. You go down the rabbit hole, you’re figuring out what you’re doing, and then you have to kind of figure out a way, okay. How do I now explain this to other people so they can see the value in what you’re doing? [00:20:37] So, [00:20:38] Brett: [00:20:38] do you think ADHD helps you at all? Yeah, me too. I feel like part of like, part of the reason that I write clearly and succinctly is because I’m always thinking about what I be able to read through this. And I don’t have a high capacity for long articles. Like anything that re anything that’s more than like three pages of a desktop display, [00:21:00] text I’m out. [00:21:01] Like I’ll never make it to the end. Um, [00:21:03] Christina: [00:21:03] no problem with long articles, but yeah, I feel like. My ADHD helps me with that. Um, maybe being succinct or being understandable. I don’t know. I think part for me, I always use not so much now because she’s not like the perfect muse for this, but for the stuff that I did at Mashable and Gizmodo and when I would go on CNN and other places and whatever, and I would need to explain like a really complicated. [00:21:29] Technical topic too. It means you’re mining is that always like use my mom as kind of my guide. I was like, okay. How, how would you explain this to your mom? How would you, how would I explain this? Cause she’s smart, but she’s not an expert in it. [00:21:41] Brett: [00:21:41] I use El now because she has an amazing capacity for learning things that are well outside of her wheelhouse, but they need to be like a lot of times if I’m explaining something tech, there’s this whole backstory that she [00:21:55] Christina: [00:21:55] She needs the context. [00:21:57] Brett: [00:21:57] And like, I that’s, one of the skills I’ve [00:22:00] developed over time is to kind of backup and say, what do you need? [00:22:03] To understand this. What, what groundwork do you need first? [00:22:07] Christina: [00:22:07] Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Um, and I think, um, Ella, my mom would get along really well. Like they, they have similar like hearts, like Intel, which are very good ones. And, um, like, like L my mom has a huge capacity for learning things outside of her wheelhouse, but. Which is odd. I always buy, like, it was never a derogatory thing. [00:22:27] I think people they go, you’re using your mom as your thing. And like, no, my mom is awesome. Like, but my mom is not a technical, um, person in the traditional sense, but she’s smart and she can understand things. So I just need to use, okay. Like, how, how would I, how would I talk to her about this? And, and I think that, you know, and I have a different person kind of in mind, uh, it’s not usually a single person. [00:22:49] It’s, it’s kind of a group of people when I’m talking or writing about developer focus stuff, especially if it’s more of like beginner content or people who aren’t familiar, as you said, with the [00:23:00] context and, um, and knowing what that line is. Is something that I think you only learn from experience, which you have from the years you’ve been doing that. [00:23:09] And I think that’s one of those things that is really important in developer relations, because you do have people who come from all across the gamut, you have people who are really experienced in a certain area. You also have newcomers. You have people who just dabble in and out and are just trying to get the documentation and figure out how to do it. [00:23:25] And don’t really care for the preamble. They just want to know the brass tacks, do people who are, you know, students or career switchers who are learning. If people who. Do you actually care about the depth? You know, like there are those different people and you just need to know that line about like where you go. [00:23:40] And I feel like your blog does a really good job being conversational and authentic and, um, understandable. And, and I think the most important thing is it feels approachable. Like even if like I read your blog and I’ve been reading your blog, you know, for as long as we’ve been friends and. What I’ve always loved about your writing is that there’s some stuff that [00:24:00] even if I am like, okay, I couldn’t write and do this stuff with bunch that you’re doing. [00:24:05] Like, I wouldn’t be able to do that code myself, but reading about what you’re doing with it. And listening to you talk about it and talking with you about it week to week, I can understand it and it feels approachable. So it’s like, okay, this isn’t something that I would do myself, but it doesn’t feel like so out of the realm of my comprehension, right. [00:24:23] Which, which is important. [00:24:25] Brett: [00:24:25] Are you ready for an amazing segue first? Thank you. That’s very kind of, you. But also, are you ready for an amazing segue? [00:24:32] Christina: [00:24:32] I’m totally ready for him. And he seems segue. [00:24:35] Brett: [00:24:35] Speaking of short things that are well explained and, and are interesting. Oh, I feel like I had it better in my head, but anyway, wouldn’t it be great if there was a pocket size guide that could help you sleep, focus or act better? [00:24:51] There is. And if you have 10 minutes, Headspace can change your life. I’m doing okay. Right? [00:24:58] Christina: [00:24:58] That’s fantastic. [00:25:00] [00:25:00] Brett: [00:25:00] Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy to use app. Headspace is one of the only apps advancing the field of mindfulness and meditation through clinically validated research Headspace meditation start at just one minute, each speaking of short things, uh, they even have a set of walking meditation, so they’re easy to fit into the busiest schedules. [00:25:24] Headspace is proven to help you feel better. Their approach to mindfulness can reduce stress, improve, sleep boost, focus, and increase your overall sense of wellbeing. Whatever the situation Headspace really can help you feel better. If you need some help falling asleep. Headspace has wind down sessions. [00:25:41] Their members swear by. I do I concur with this ad read the wind down sessions are great when I’m not in a, when I’m not in a place where I can listen to an audio book. Or like, I won’t absorb it. These wind down meditations are awesome. [00:26:00] Um, and on the other side of sleep, you’ll find the, uh, the wake up, which is daily original content intended to inspire your day from the moment you wake up. [00:26:09] And if you’re feeling overwhelmed, Headspace even has three minute SOS meditations that you can do anytime you need it. I did air quotes for SOS. Nobody could see that, but I feel like it came through [00:26:22] Christina: [00:26:22] I think so. I think it did. [00:26:24] Brett: [00:26:24] So I used to think that my mind was too busy to meditate. I thought that someone with ADHD and crazy manic episodes couldn’t be still enough to do it. [00:26:33] It turned out that I was exactly the kind of person who could benefit from meditation. And Headspace really helped me find my groove. I had, I had the great courses, a mindful meditation, like given to me, gifted to me. And it was like, 80 hours long. There’s no way, no way, but 10 minute meditations that can kind of ease you into it. [00:26:59] Super [00:27:00] easy. Um, Headspace is backed by 25 published studies on its benefits. 600,500 views. And over 60 million downloads. Headspace makes it easy for you to build a life changing meditation practice with mindfulness that works for you on your schedule anytime, anywhere. So our listeners deserve to feel happier and Headspace is meditation made simple, simple, go to headspace.com/overtired. [00:27:28] That’s headspace.com/overtired for a free one month trial with access to headspaces full library of meditations for every situation. This is the best deal that’s out there right now. So head to headspace.com/overtired today. [00:27:45] Christina: [00:27:45] Thank you Headspace. [00:27:46] Brett: [00:27:46] Thanks Headspace. Um, I’m a fan, I’m a fan. So I added a bunch of like news articles that were there’s a lot of privacy stuff going on right now. [00:27:57] Christina: [00:27:57] Yeah, no, I saw that. Um, before we [00:28:00] get into that, let’s go back to fish shell. Before we talk about that. Yeah. Let’s let’s go back to fish. Saul. [00:28:04] Brett: [00:28:04] now. I feel comfortable with this now. Um, so I was just evangelizing for fish in, uh, in, uh, um, uh, Slack that I got invited into this Slack team that, uh, like I thought it was going to be a bunch of, uh, well, I, I, I don’t know what I thought it was gonna be, but I get in there and. [00:28:29] All the greats are in there. We’ve got rich Teagle Daniel gel cut Florian Albrecht, like, uh, it’s a who’s who of independent developers. [00:28:41] Christina: [00:28:41] Hell. Yeah. [00:28:42] Brett: [00:28:42] and you can ask a question. You can ask a stupid question to which they will reply. Obviously there are no stupid questions and you will get help. It’s amazing. I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t talk about this. [00:28:53] Like everyone’s invited, I don’t, I don’t know what the, uh, I don’t know how open it is, but I got in and [00:29:00] I’m super it’s amazing. But anyway, I, I was, uh, I was asking questions about this, uh, in S task controller I’m working on and we got into a discussion of shells and I found myself evangelists for fish. [00:29:13] I know it has, it has its quirks. It’s a little bit slow. But the, uh, the, the completion and the type of head stuff, and it remembers, uh, command history per directory. So it will remember what the last command you ran in this directory was, and I love it. I couldn’t be happier. I’ve used it for a year now. I, I, I opened up basher Z shell and it feels old and boring, and I love fish. [00:29:46] Christina: [00:29:46] Yeah. I like it. My only issue with it is that the thing about Zetia, especially if you use like or something, is that you can, you either, you can’t get everything that you can get with fish, but you can get some stuff that’s, that’s closer. Although to your point, it will make [00:30:00] things slower. Right. Because you can have this like massive, like, um, you know, um, um, um, XOs like profile, like that’s just massive. [00:30:08] Uh, but. My only thing with fish. Cause I like fish and it makes sense. And like it’s a good shell. And like, it, it, I think that it was former Apple people who created it. If I recall correctly, I’m I could be wrong. I could be wrong on that. Uh, that feels right. But there’s some sort of Apple connection, but I’m not sure, but the only thing is is that. [00:30:27] The nice thing about shell is that it is backwards compatible with bash. And there are certain times where I will not either remember like a command in visual need to look it up or more to the point, like you need to run something. And if it hasn’t been explicitly like said that it’s like bash, you know, then if you’re running it in, in, in fish, like it’s going to give you issues. [00:30:49] That’s that’s, that’s my only thing. [00:30:51] Brett: [00:30:51] So all of my, all of my favorite bash scripts and I was at bash stalwart for a decade, um, I have a very, uh, a [00:31:00] very customized, very powerful bash setup and all of my bash scripts. Uh, you just put a bash hash bang in them [00:31:08] Christina: [00:31:08] Right. No, I understand. No, I understand that. My point is that there are some times you’ll run across things like, especially I’m thinking, like, if you’re doing things from like remote machines or whatever, Where, um, you know, you, you have a script that you’ve, you’ve downloaded from someplace that like you’ll have to go back and edit and add that, or you’ll have to switch your shell environment. [00:31:28] Brett: [00:31:28] Yeah, I do find myself running bash L for like a log-in shell pretty often, but, um, mostly because I need to figure out why something used to work for me and no, it does, [00:31:41] Christina: [00:31:41] Right, [00:31:41] Brett: [00:31:41] yeah, there are like, the scripting is like a very different syntax. It takes a lot of getting used to even just the idea of like exporting, uh, an environment. [00:31:52] Variable is different in fish. It takes some work. [00:31:55] Christina: [00:31:55] No totally. I mean, and then the thing for me, I think the reason why I haven’t ever committed to it, although I [00:32:00] really like it is because a lot of the stuff that I do is on virtual machines and is on like, you know, uh, or, or in containers or in other platforms like the cloud where I’m not necessarily going to install fish to get up and running. [00:32:14] So if I’m like doing something remote, then I have the environment that I have. Right. Like I probably have bash, like I might have Zetia shell, but I probably have bash. And so. I, it, it, I haven’t been able to kind of work it into my like personal kind of muscle memory of, of stuff. [00:32:31] Brett: [00:32:31] can be like, if you, if you’re a daily user of basher Z shell, you’ve got a pile of aliases and scripts and, uh, modules, especially with Z shell that you’re just used to having and, and assets aging into anyone else’s environment. Even if it’s the same shell can still feel, [00:32:52] Christina: [00:32:52] No, of course, except I have like my dot files and like get hub repo. And like, there are ways [00:33:00] with certain environment things where I can like set it to use my dot Biles, like, so. That that’s my point. Like you’re not wrong. You’re completely correct. That it still is one of those things. But I guess the difference is that I found workarounds for that. [00:33:11] Whereas I haven’t for fish, which is why I personally haven’t been able to get with it, although I’ve tried. Cause I it’s, it’s kind of like, I think of it like divorce tech. It’s one of those things where it makes sense, like this is what everybody should be using, but I’m just like, I’m going to be using query because that’s what everyone uses, even though it was not the best [00:33:32] Brett: [00:33:32] that is an app comparison. Like I know in my heart. That there are better, uh, better keyboard layouts than Cordy. And, uh, I’m just, I’m used to what I’m used to and learning something that will only work on my machine and not anywhere else. I go. It’s a good comparison. Nicely done. [00:33:52] Christina: [00:33:52] Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that just came to me. I was like, what’s, what’s the analogy. I was like, Oh yeah, this is the divorce book of, of shells. [00:33:57] Brett: [00:33:57] Fucking brilliant. [00:34:00] All right. Did we talk enough about fish? I got, so it has this, uh, coloring when, when the, when you type a command that exists and is a valid command. It turns green, uh, uh, arguments. Get one color redirections, get a color quoted strings, get another, uh, con substituted commands. Get a different color. [00:34:21] So as you type your string is colored also, it’s giving you type ahead completion and it can automatically, there’s a module for Zetia that can do this too, but it can automatically parse, um, all the command line flags and options and with things like brew and get it purses, all the sub commands. So it gives you full. [00:34:44] Uh, full command completion for just about every command on your system. It knows every flag in every option for every command. [00:34:53] Christina: [00:34:53] Yeah, no, I really like that. And like, yeah, like you said, you can get extensions for seashell to do that. The problem with both of them, uh, is, [00:35:00] does slow things down initially, but it’s so useful like that. I think that for a lot of people it’s worth it, but it can definitely slow things down because I’ve made that mistake actually. [00:35:10] Both with fish and it was the shell, uh, because I’ve like gone too far into configuring them and then like had this insane profile. I’m like, Oh, okay. Yeah, no, my terminal is very slow now. And this is a very fast machine, so I need to par this down. Right? Like that’s, that’s always, um, actually I should do a video about that. [00:35:30] I should do a video for people to like tame their, their shell environment because. I have a feeling. There are a lot of people who, you know, they build up. Yeah. They’re like, God, this is so useful. And they’re like, Oh, why is this taking so long? I’m actually, it’s fun up while we’re talking. Speaking of ADHD, I’ve been going through that. [00:35:46] I’ve been like going through my, my, um, Zetia, like profile, trying to kind of call stuff. Um, because what, what I’ll wind up doing and, and you maybe you’re wrong. Maybe you’re different than this, but like I’ll wind [00:36:00] up even sometimes like having like different. I profiles that I use with different apps. So I have like a different, you know, one that I’m using with, um, with I term two versus, you know, terminal or whatever, because one will get, yeah, I, I’ve only done that a couple of times as I’ve been trying to like play around, usually I try to keep it consistent, but the reason I did that one time was I was like, I really needed like a burgeoning system with like my profile to kind of go through stuff and I, I didn’t have time and it was so slow. [00:36:28] It was like, okay, I just need to kind of start over. And I, I, I just like, you know, made a new, a new profile for, um, for item two, because it was like, that was easier than, um, blowing everything away, uh, for the time constraints that I had. [00:36:43] Brett: [00:36:43] when I see D into a directory, there is always a pause because I run a bunch of, in addition to like regular, like fish has a bit of a lag there anyway. Um, I don’t know what it’s parsing when you see the [00:37:00] end of a directory, but I also run directory hooks. Like, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen my Anais project, but I keep a task paper file. [00:37:09] And just about every code repository that I have. And it it’s where I put ideas and bugs and to dues and N a. Is a command line tool. I wrote, it’s actually a bash script that when I CD into a folder, it checks the task paper file and pops up like what the next actions and highest priority items are before it displays the directory, the prompt. [00:37:36] And like I’m willing to wait for that because I have found it extremely useful. And like RVM, like I have different Ruby versions that run depending on which folder I’m in, I’m in. So that, like, that takes time. I’ve just become very patient. I guess. It’s weird when I use like a RA like Z shell command line and things just happen like instantly. [00:37:59] Christina: [00:37:59] No. I know I’m the [00:38:00] same way. Like when I, like, when I get a new machine, like, you know, I set up a new environment, like that’s always like the best slash the worst part because it’s so fast. And then I’m like, Oh, I don’t have any of my aliases. I don’t have any of my, you know, like none of my stuff is working the way that I wanted to work. [00:38:13] So the first thing I have to do is, you know, clone my dot file. [00:38:17] Brett: [00:38:17] you know, what is working for me? [00:38:19] Christina: [00:38:19] What’s that? [00:38:20] Brett: [00:38:20] My shower. [00:38:22] Christina: [00:38:22] Yeah, mine too. Actually. That’s a great segue. So. [00:38:26] Brett: [00:38:26] It was horrible segue. [00:38:28] Christina: [00:38:28] okay. It was horrible, but it also is app. So it’s fine. So, uh, our, um, uh, this episode is brought to you by a Nebia, and we’re super excited to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, who is Nebia, and they are the creators of the Nebia by Mowen spa shower. [00:38:45] And it’s backed by some of the biggest companies in Silicon Valley, or, uh, sorry, let me start this roll. Read over again. No, I it’s. Okay. So it’s a bad segue, but I mean, we’ll, we’ll make it work. It’s, [00:39:00] it’s kind of perfect in the same way. And this episode is brought to you by Nebia and, uh, we’re excited because Nebia is one of our favorite sponsors and they are the creators of the Nebia by Mohen spa shower. And it’s backed by some of the. [00:39:12] Biggest names in Silicon Valley, including Tim cook. And it’s designed by former Tesla and NASA and Apple engineers who spent years researching and developing a superior shower experience that saves water and is anything but ordinary. And so the Nebia by Moe and spa shower is Nebby is most advanced shower yet. [00:39:33] And it has twice the coverage and half the water usage of a standard shower head. Um, and so. The cool thing here is that despite using 45% less water, it spray is 81% more powerful than the competition. And it’s atomized droplets, rinse, shampoo, and conditioner out of even the thickest of hair. I don’t have super thick hair, but I have a ton of hair and my hair is incredibly long right now. [00:39:58] Like it needs to be cut really [00:40:00] badly. And I can attest to the fact that, uh, you know, even though it’s using less water, it, the. Water pressure is great. And it definitely rinses everything out the way that you would want with easy self installation, Nebia by Mowen can be installed in 15 minutes or less without the need for contractors or plumbers or broken tile. [00:40:19] So like, if you can change a light bulb, you can install Nebia by Mowen. And I can attest to that because I am somebody who can change the light bulb, but would not be able to, you know, like change a tire. And so this. Worked out great for me. Um, it was very, very good installation experience. [00:40:38] Brett: [00:40:38] I got to say, I never used to be a long, hot shower person. [00:40:42] Christina: [00:40:42] Now you are. [00:40:42] Brett: [00:40:42] now, now I find myself either thinking like, I, I get good ideas when I stay in the shower long enough, it takes a while. Uh, and using half the water helps, you know, like I’m less worried about ecology or [00:41:00] money, but yeah. Now I either I’m thinking, or I’m just reveling in those atomized droplets. [00:41:05] I am really liking the Nebia by Mowen. [00:41:08] Christina: [00:41:08] Yeah, no, I I’m somebody who I’ve always liked showers, but I really love the experience and it’s great. And the Novi by Mowen squash hour starts at just $199. And for overtired listeners. We have a great deal for you. The first 100 people to use the code overtired@nebia.com. We’ll get 15% off all Nebia products. [00:41:31] So it’s rare that Nebia offers deals like this. And so don’t wait to go to nebia.com/overtired that’s N E B I a.com/. Overtired to check out what they have to offer. And again, the first a hundred people who use the code over tired when checking out we’ll save 15% on all Nebia products. So again, that’s nebia.com/overtired and use that code overtired to save 15%. [00:41:59] Brett: [00:41:59] Great job, [00:42:00] Christina. That was a, that was a, that was a hell of a read. [00:42:04] Christina: [00:42:04] Thank you. Thank you. [00:42:06] Brett: [00:42:06] So I w we could talk about how brave bought a search engine, we could talk about color. He yanked tablets. What do you feel like. [00:42:17] Christina: [00:42:17] Let’s talk about brave a little bit. I will talk, we’ll talk more about the eating tablets next week. Um, because, um, I have like more thoughts on that, but be brave. Find a search engine. This is weird to me. [00:42:27] Brett: [00:42:27] Ah, well, I mean, it [00:42:30] Christina: [00:42:30] mean, it’s not weird. It makes sense, but yeah. [00:42:32] Brett: [00:42:32] fits, uh, the idea of like their, their kind of mission statement and creating like a search engine, that’s more crowdsourced and works with micro payments. Uh, like it makes sense. I am a little concerned, like, I, I need to know more about you. You don’t at all. [00:42:54] Christina: [00:42:54] Not at all. Not even remotely. [00:42:55] Brett: [00:42:55] I need to know more about, they have this thing called goggles, which [00:43:00] basically lets anybody create filters. [00:43:03] So like you could have, we talk about filter bubbles and these are basically their filters that you opt into. Like the thing about. Filter bubbles that upsets people is they don’t even know they’re in a bubble. They don’t know that Google is giving them different results than it’s giving other people and braid search engine. [00:43:24] They’re talking about, uh, basically being able to opt into different filters. Like you want nothing, but like creationists anti-vaxxer results, you can turn that filter on which, you know, that’s like the scary thing to me. I. Also there’s so much shit out on the internet that you kind of have to choose your filters. [00:43:45] I guess [00:43:46] Christina: [00:43:46] Yeah. I mean, at a certain point it’s like, I don’t well, because the problem is, is that with, with, with SEO, which. For better or worse is, is how things work. Like people will optimize [00:44:00] stuff, you know, to, it’s not as if like organic ranking only means so much, right? Like the beauty of, of the original kind of. [00:44:09] Google page rank was, yeah. SEO is part of it, but it was also kind of like a built-in kind of thing where they could kind of assess where they would try to assess, like how useful was this result, right. Like how often would you like stay on that page or when you click back to another result or like how, how useful was it? [00:44:23] Right. Um, how much did it actually answer your question versus how much do they just stop the keywords? So it showed up at the top and that’s, they’ve gotten a little bit away from that. Right. But it’s like to your point, We all have, like these filter bubbles will take over. If you don’t have anything, like if it’s just kind of a free for all. [00:44:40] Then I fear that the people who are going to capitalize on it the most, it’s not like the internet is a meritocracy or anything, not the meritocracies even exist, but the internet certainly is not Ameritocracy. And it’s like, it’s going to be the shit that you see, that’s going to rise up and it’s going to take over, you know what I mean? [00:44:58] Like if you don’t have some sort of. [00:45:00] Um, filtering or, or grounders in place, like in a perfect ideal world. Of course it would be everyone on its merits, but that’s not the world we live in or that we’ve ever lived in. And the internet is no exception. So. [00:45:11] Brett: [00:45:11] part of braids plan though is, uh, to anonymously track, which. Uh, which links which get clicked and which ones seem to be the right result. And they have some plans for like spacing out the tracking from the actual clicks. So you can’t tell which user clicked what, but still be able to collect the information about which, uh, which result ended up being the right one and kind of building their index based on that. [00:45:44] Christina: [00:45:44] Right. You know, I mean, it could work. I mean, like Apple is trying to do something similar with differential, privacy and Google there, you know what we talked about a little bit last week and that you have more links on this. Cause it was, you know, uh effs um, article about their, um, uh, you know, [00:46:00] federated learning of cohort cohorts thing, which was pretty critical of it. [00:46:04] Um, like it’s, um, It’s an, it’s not a bad idea, right? It’s one of those things where I think it could make sense. I think my genuine question is always, it’s not that it’s not technically possible to truly anonymize this stuff. It’s is it likely because we’ve seen with a lot of these, you know, um, so-called anonymized kind of services and whatnot. [00:46:26] That really, you can still very much identify who individuals are. Like the New York times had a thing. I think it was last year where they were able to kind of gather a bunch of cell phone data and they were able to basically track down and, and identify like individuals and individual movements throughout DC based on their cell phone patterns. [00:46:45] And this was supposed to be information that was anonymized, but it could still be very much individualized. And I’ll be honest and say, I care less about things like. My search history. Not that I [00:47:00] don’t care about it, but I care less about having a profile for that exist for advertising companies or for whoever. [00:47:05] Then I do about like my location being tracked. Um, I, you know, feel like that is, is far more insidious and has far more repercussions, but I do always look at any claim from any company who’s like, yeah, we can de-anonymize uh, or not, not de-anonymize we can anonymize. Um, you know, this, this information and aggregate while still offering the features that we get from, you know, um, tracking things and tailoring things. [00:47:34] I just look at that with a side eye. I know it’s possible. I just, I just don’t know how likely it is, but I don’t know. [00:47:43] Brett: [00:47:43] mean, so to the Google point there, their flock idea is basically instead of tracking individuals, we’re going to assign individuals to groups and your browser will do the tracking instead of cookies. And. [00:48:00] Ultimately, it’s still targeted advertising and it still comes with all the potential for the discrimination and privacy invasion. [00:48:08] And there, there are a lot of like, it’s all like white paper at this point. There’s no, there’s no actual plan. The browser, the first, uh, kind of incarnations of it were supposed to come out. Maybe April. Uh, but there’s like, there are so many unanswered question about like how they’re actually going to do this. [00:48:27] And the more I read, um, like starting with eff statement on it, like, it it’s very questionable. Like why would you Google gave up targeted advertising? Like you got to question [00:48:41] Christina: [00:48:41] No, they’re not. I mean, well, of course it’s like the whole reason is because it’s no longer, um, either, uh, viable from like, you know, you see Mozilla, but, but really the big thing is Safari and you see other people like blocking. Certain types of targeting. And so it makes it harder for them to do their job. [00:48:58] And then you maybe have some of [00:49:00] the antitrust or other kind of government kind of interference with that stuff. Right? Like that’s, that’s the, the city that can meet who looks at that. I’m like, okay, those are your reasons. Like, that’s why you would do this because you wouldn’t get rid of it for just any reason because you don’t, you don’t care. [00:49:13] Right? Like it’s one of those things. You’re like, no, like, I, I, um, This, this is a big part of their business. I mean, this whole thing with DoubleClick, which is why I think DoubleClick was such a important, like innovation for them. Uh, like we’re not innovation, but such an important like acquisition for them. [00:49:27] Um, and it does seem like they’re just kind of shifting the narrative a little bit, but it’s, um, I don’t know, like I’m, I’m absolutely. So, so, um, I question like how some of that stuff works, but it’s also one of those things where I think with brave, my issue is, and they, they bought what they bought as they bought clicks, where they bought like the people behind clicks, which was like a privacy focused. [00:49:56] Search engine. And so it has some basis, you know, when in prior stuff. [00:50:00] And it’s not that I have any doubt in the technical acumen of the people behind brave. I think they’re actually smart. And I think there are a lot of good ideas in the browser. What I can’t get over with brave as much as they’ve tried to spend things I’m like still mad at them about this. [00:50:12] Cause I just find it so disingenuous and it makes me hard to trust. Anything they say is like, I’m very bothered by the fact that like they take out advertisements on other people’s content and replace it with their own advertisements. And then the only way that the people whose advertisements they’ve taken over, which I have a problem with, if you’re going to replace it with your own. [00:50:32] Um, and, and to be honest, I kind of don’t love like, as like a for-profit entity taking out advertisements by default at all. Like if I’m being totally honest. Um, but, but particularly if they’re, you know, adding their own on top of it, the only way that the people who. Can, you know, who are the creators of that stuff can, can get paid, is that they opt in to Braves program. [00:50:57] Like it just, I’m still really bothered [00:51:00] by that. And I still find that to be such a disingenuous thing to be like, Oh, we hate advertisements except the ones that we’re going to replace your ads. But like, I just feel like. [00:51:10] Brett: [00:51:10] but, but, but like the whole idea is like, basically they don’t, it’s not that they hate advertisements. They hate the way advertising [00:51:18] Christina: [00:51:18] I, yeah, I get that, but I still feel like it’s not their place. And I still feel like it’s pretty fucked up too, for them to take like the, the role of saying we want our company to make money and we’re fine with the ads that we sell. And so we will proactively take them off of your stuff. [00:51:35] Brett: [00:51:35] aren’t targeted [00:51:36] Christina: [00:51:36] I understand that, but that, but, but, but, but that doesn’t give them the right on my website for them to replace how my website is, is displayed to people who visit my website like that. [00:51:45] To me, I’m sorry. I think that’s fucked up. Like, I, I’m not okay with that. Like, I’m fine with ad blockers in general. I’m not really down with like the ad blockers that are owned by ad companies, you know, like ad block pluses, like you block origin, I’m all about regular you block is a whole other thing. [00:52:00] Um, and. [00:52:01] And I, I, you know, people do what you want, but like, as somebody who used to work in an advertiser, you know, kind of, you know, sponsored kind of world, but even beyond that, and just frankly, from like an autonomy standpoint, like who the fuck is brave to decide what ads I can or can’t display on my website. [00:52:17] Like if an individual user wants to install a plugin, that’s fine, but who the hell is this browser company? It’s not only get rid of them, but replace them with ones they’ve deemed. Correct. Like who the fuck gives them that authority and then who the hell it lets them say, Oh, and we’ll, we’ll pay you, but you have to opt into our bullshit bat token system. [00:52:36] You have to like, give us your information so we can pay you for stuff that we are like, we’re taking your ads and replacing ours. So we’re like, I just think it’s fucked up. And I think it’s a really disingenuous way of them saying, Oh, we care about. Like they don’t give a shit about creators. They don’t, and that’s fine, but don’t pretend like you do. [00:52:54] I just find it really disingenuous to be like, Oh, ads are bad, except for ours. [00:53:00] [00:53:00] Brett: [00:53:00] fair enough. You, you, you feel very passionate about this. [00:53:04] Christina: [00:53:04] Well, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t, I don’t know when, like I use brave from time to time. I don’t use it on the desktop. I use it on mobile sometimes and I’m like, I, again, like, I feel like they have good ideas. I just, I find that whole thing really disingenuous. I also find the cult around brand. Brendan Eich completely. [00:53:21] Stupid because the reason the cult exists is because he was briefly Mozilla CEO and then was fired, I think, rightly so. He never should have been elevated to that position without them doing like a deep dive into stuff. Um, and, and people are still mad about that and they’re like, Oh, well, Mozilla would be different Firefox. [00:53:38] Wouldn’t be so fucked if Hubert and charge. No, it would still be pretty fucked. It would still be completely reliant on Google. Like he, him being the leader wouldn’t have changed anything. I don’t think, but. Like I respect his technical stuff, technical ability. I just don’t quite understand the cult of people who are like obsessed with him because of some vendetta that they’re mad that he got, you [00:54:00] know, fired for. Like, I don’t, he couldn’t lead that organization. People didn’t feel comfortable with someone like that as their leader [00:54:12] Brett: [00:54:12] you know what browser is probably the safest. And probably the most pure links. [00:54:20] Christina: [00:54:20] Oh, yeah. Okay. Fair enough. But like that’s yeah. I mean, I guess that’s the one good one. Yeah. [00:54:26] Brett: [00:54:26] I just, I just checked my command line to see if Lynx is still like, installed on my machine and it totally is. Um, I don’t remember how to use it. Yeah. [00:54:38] Christina: [00:54:38] Yeah, I was going to say, hasn’t it been replaced with something like isn’t there like another, like, I think obviously it’s still a thing, but, um, I think that there’s like another text base. Um, what browser. [00:54:49] Brett: [00:54:49] there, I bet there is, but yeah, I’m reading my blog right now with links and no ads, no cookies. And I mean, I try to have a [00:55:00] blog that works without JavaScript anyway, [00:55:02] Christina: [00:55:02] I was going to say you care about accessibility. I mean, that’s actually the, I think probably one of the best things about like going like JavaScript free, um, is accessible, although I’m not opposed to JavaScript or whatever, but yeah. [00:55:15] Brett: [00:55:15] Yeah, well, I use JavaScript to add functionality, but not replaced functionality. [00:55:20] Christina: [00:55:20] right. Progressive [00:55:21] Brett: [00:55:21] yeah. My site works in links that should be, uh, works best in links. You remember those works best in internet Explorer and Netscape icons. [00:55:30] Christina: [00:55:30] I showed you I’ve I’ve um, I’ve actually kind of been wanting to like make a t-shirt or something that has like, you know, works best Netscape navigator, 4.0 or something [00:55:39] Brett: [00:55:39] Um, I’m Googling works best in links right now because I’m really curious if this already exists. It doesn’t, I’m going to make, well, I shouldn’t say it. Doesn’t duck, duck go. Didn’t offer an immediate, uh, uh, immediate link. I, I think, uh, I’m think I’m going to put a sticker on my blog. Oh, uh, works best, best [00:56:00] viewed in links. [00:56:01] How did what’s that phrase before best viewed in? Yeah, it was best viewed. I love these live Google searches [00:56:10] Christina: [00:56:10] I was going to say best feed and internet explore button. Um, uh, I’m looking like for the images. Yeah. Best viewed with Microsoft internet Explorer was, um, was usually how it worked or best viewed with the Netscape navigator. [00:56:23] Brett: [00:56:23] cause you had to make a decision. At some point you [00:56:25] Christina: [00:56:25] You did. [00:56:26] Brett: [00:56:26] you could choose Netscape or you could choose internet Explorer and you could like, they, they were so divergent at that point. And now it’s, you know, it’s chromium and WebKit and like what’s the other one? What’s Oh, and Mozilla. Gecko. [00:56:43] Yeah. Um, like they’re still like, yeah, they move, they accept different parts of the spec at different rates, but it’s nothing like it was back then. Like the HTML was different for the [00:56:56] Christina: [00:56:56] Right. Well, right. Well like, like internet Explorer, like in like [00:57:00] adopted CSS first. Right. And then there was like the whole act of X thing. Yeah, no, they were different. Like, if you just did H developi 3m, but even there was a time when like tables would be different. And yet I remember that being in middle school and like having to figure out how to get my layout, to look as accurate as possible in both browsers, [00:57:16] Brett: [00:57:16] because tables were how we did layout back then. [00:57:19] Christina: [00:57:19] completely complete tables and frames. [00:57:22] Brett: [00:57:22] Oh, frames. [00:57:23] Christina: [00:57:23] Frames. Yep. [00:57:25] Brett: [00:57:25] Yup. And server side includes [00:57:28] Christina: [00:57:28] Which are coming back now. [00:57:29] Brett: [00:57:29] really why? [00:57:32] Christina: [00:57:32] I don’t know. [00:57:33] Brett: [00:57:33] Huh? Yeah. Okay. Um, well, it should be another segment of our show. Uh, reminiscing about old technology. [00:57:43] Christina: [00:57:43] I know. And everything old is new. Again, it’s one of those weird things where like, Yeah. Uh, because there’s the, there’s this certain like push to, you know, everything like yeah. Everything like went like from anyway. Yeah. There’s this, everything old is new. Again, everything being slightly [00:58:00] reinvented differently. [00:58:01] Um, uh, okay. We’ve got, do we have one more sponsor? We need to talk to, [00:58:06] Brett: [00:58:06] do. We do. And it’s, I saved my, my favorite for last. And hopefully everyone is still listening because I got to tell you about text expander, [00:58:14] Christina: [00:58:14] well, text expander. [00:58:16] Brett: [00:58:16] love, text expander. We could talk about this every week for free, but we’re, we’re getting paid. So, so, um, I’m gonna, I’m gonna read most of this, but I’m going to have a lot of stuff I have to say. [00:58:27] Um, so work harder. No work smarter, not harder with [00:58:34] Christina: [00:58:34] There you go. There you go. Nailed it. [00:58:38] Brett: [00:58:38] text expander helps you work faster and smarter so you can focus your time on your most important work, who just a few keystrokes text expander keeps you consistent, accurate, and working efficiently speed through emails with snippets containing fill in fields that you can trigger with a couple of keystrokes, fill in fields, make it possible. [00:58:57] Customize a snippet. Every time you use it, [00:59:00] only changing the parts that need to using text expanders, powerful shortcuts and abbreviations can streamline and speed up everything you type. And it helps you get your message, right? Every time you can expand content that correct your spelling keeps your language consistent with just a few keystrokes. [00:59:17] And if you’re working in like a team environment, you can have, uh, texts. TextExpander for teams, which can let you define kind of like, this is how we address, uh, customers. This is how we reply to this kind of request. This is how we, uh, state our mission. Like you can have consistent language for everyone in the company and it’s super easy. [00:59:39] Um, and people don’t have to go check a style guide every time. But anyway, Overtired listeners get 20% off their first year and you can go to text expander.com/podcast to get your discount and learn more about text expanders. So I, I, yes, I just published, uh, [01:00:00] I have this old system called Tex expenders snippet T snippets, and I built it so that I could share my snippet groups publicly. [01:00:09] This is before they had [01:00:11] Christina: [01:00:11] This is before they, they, I was going to say before they let you publicly do it. Yeah. I used to do something similar. [01:00:16] Brett: [01:00:16] So, and then I, I, I built it. So like basically I was editing Pilates files. It was automated, but I would convert my P list into something that could be templated and people could punch in their own favorite prefix and it would give them a custom URL. And, uh, since building that text, expander has created a kind of a public. [01:00:36] Sharing a snippet sharing a part of their website and you can go and view all these public snippets. So I have started converting my snippet groups into these public groups and I put my first one up. I’ll link it in the, uh, in the show notes, but it’s, uh, it’s kind of the core Bret Turkstra tools that I use with text expander. [01:00:59] Um, [01:01:00] like the ones that are, you know, fit for public consumption anyway. [01:01:03] Christina: [01:01:03] No exactly. No. Yeah, totally. I know what you mean. I had one that I think somebody else, uh, basically kind of took and did something similar with, but I had like the various, um, like, uh, emoticons, um, which I think is now like an official one. Like people can like download or whatever, but like I’d created, this was years ago. [01:01:22] Like a thing, you know of [01:01:23] Brett: [01:01:23] the shrug and the table flip. Those are, yeah. You copy paste those every [01:01:27] Christina: [01:01:27] yeah, so yeah, so I, so I have like a text expanders thing, which is, um, just some Astros Astros shrug, and it’ll automatically insert. And then I have other things too. Yeah. Um, [01:01:38] Brett: [01:01:38] I have one that’s comma, comma, F U U. it, it, it puts like an image that just says, fuck, uh, [01:01:47] Christina: [01:01:47] That’s nice. Yeah. I used to have a thing. Um, I need to go back and like do it, but I, yeah, I used to have a whole thing with text expander, with my, like a Jif reaction. My reaction shift library. [01:02:00] [01:02:00] Brett: [01:02:00] I also created one for cussing. Um, if you, I think it’s either cursor, cus I can’t remember. I don’t use it often because I tend to just swear, but w when you trigger it, it gives you a fill in and you type in the swear word you want to say. And it turns it into like cartoon with all the punctuation just keeps the first letter. [01:02:21] And if it ends in Ang, it leaves the NGS. So you get like F exclamation point pound sign at symbol in. And, uh, it’s, it’s very handy for, uh, like Facebook where, you know, my mom reads my stuff, so I, I can, I can, I can cuss, but do it in a. Um, more acceptable way for my mother. I mean, she still like to her, like, I mean to her, like crap and, and, uh, cheese and rice is just as bad as saying Jesus Christ. [01:02:51] Cause it’s all, you know, I know what you meant. [01:02:55] Christina: [01:02:55] I mean she’s not wrong, which, which my argument is like, okay, if you know what I meant, then I should just say the [01:03:00] actual term. But, um, yeah, I, uh, I just looked at my text expander, like the ASCII mode of content. Cause they have one that you can subscribe to or whatever that you can do, which was, I think largely taken from my original one at some point, because I had one that was FEI, but the actual term, and that is, that is hell yeah. [01:03:19] And um, and the one that is, I guess, fit for public consumption. [01:03:24] Brett: [01:03:24] yeah, no attribution. I assume that stuff gets lost. [01:03:29] Christina: [01:03:29] Which is fine, which is completely okay. Like I’m just happy people are able to use it. Uh, but yeah, no attribution, but, um, I’m actually, I think that was why I knew that it was mine was because like, that thing was changed, but some of the other things were the same. And I was like, Oh yeah. Okay. Cause I remembered when I created those things and I was like, you know, naming them. [01:03:48] And that was certainly like a choice that is very unbrand for me. So. [01:03:54] Brett: [01:03:54] all right. Well, we should wrap up so I can edit this and still get it out today. [01:03:58] Christina: [01:03:58] Totally [01:04:00] totally. Um, [01:04:01] Brett: [01:04:01] this and it’s still Wednesday, it means I won the battle against time and got it [01:04:07] Christina: [01:04:07] it means bright won the battle against time. [01:04:08] Brett: [01:04:08] it’s Thursday or Friday, it means that maybe, maybe Brett’s mental health became more important than, uh, than editing this goddamn podcast for you. [01:04:18] Ungrateful sons of bitches. [01:04:20] Christina: [01:04:20] Basically also I realized I was way angrier in the brave segment that I should have been. I actually do feel like I’m just going to go back to this for a [01:04:29] Brett: [01:04:29] angry. Just passionate. [01:04:30] Christina: [01:04:30] well, okay. But like, okay. I think that like, what they do with ads is fucked up, but I am happy that someone is at least trying to do something with a, with a, with a search engine. [01:04:39] Even if I don’t like a lot of the things that they do. I do. I am glad somebody is doing something with a search engine. Like I hope that that will force. Like we need more competition in this space. There was, uh, there was like an article or maybe it was on daring fireball that the group were talked about. [01:04:54] Like, um, like how Google results are, are worse, you know, than they used to be. [01:05:00] And there were a lot of, they are, and I think there’s been a lot of conversation about why that’s happened. And people up like Lambo, they put the ads and then this and that. No, I’ll tell you what it is is that they have no competition and they haven’t had any competition. [01:05:12] There’s literally no one who is even like close to making them have to try. So they don’t have to care. And, and it’s like, it’s like, what happens when you’re the best at something for a really long time, you just get lazy. So if for no other reason than forcing, like. Google to step it up and improve. I want things like, um, Braves thing and, and I, and duck, duck go and, and other stuff to have a chance, you know? [01:05:41] Brett: [01:05:41] Yeah, I was just thinking yesterday about trying to figure out why Google results seem worse than they used to be. Like, I used to build a, take an X code error message punch it. Into Google and figure out what the problem was. Now. I basically just get a bunch of Pastebin and just links to people [01:06:00] having the same problem with absolutely no like conversation or wrestling, or it it’ll send me to the, all these sites that, um, Uh, that mirror stack overflow. [01:06:12] And I think they, they just scrapes that overflow and then add ads to it. But those results come up before stack overflow [01:06:22] Christina: [01:06:22] Yes, no. Which [01:06:23] Brett: [01:06:23] not on duck. Duck go, duck, [01:06:25] Christina: [01:06:25] I know. [01:06:26] Brett: [01:06:26] you like instant answers. It’ll even highlight the answered. [01:06:29] Christina: [01:06:29] Right because Dr. Goh doesn’t have access, I’m guessing to the paid API stuff. Right. Like, you know, they’re also, they’re using being for some other backend stuff, they’re using different things, but like they got, they don’t have the same, um, ways that people can like abuse the Infoblox or, or whatever, the way that, that Google does. [01:06:51] Brett: [01:06:51] Yeah. I still love duck duck. [01:06:54] Christina: [01:06:54] I do too. I do too. I [01:06:55] Brett: [01:06:55] know there’s a bang Terp stra search. [01:07:00] There’s an official, I can’t remember if it’s Terp. I think it’s bang Terp. Like for anyone who doesn’t know a duck, duck go has these, uh, you put an exclamation point and then a word and it’ll do a special search based on the bank search. [01:07:15] Uh, and there’s one that searches my blog with like bang, Terp. That’s awesome. I’m honored. Um, I’m blown away by that. That’s good. Yeah. Anyway, anyway. Okay. Well, yeah. Get some sleep, Christina. [01:07:30] Christina: [01:07:30] Get some sleep bread and yeah, it is, it is bang, Terp. That’s awesome. [01:07:35] Brett: [01:07:35] I’ll link a link, a random search in the show notes. [01:07:38] Christina: [01:07:38] Yeah. I, I just, I just, I just typed in a bang Terp and then keyboards and it immediately came up with [01:07:44] Brett: [01:07:44] Yeah. All right. Well, and everyone check out the discord to, uh, keep the conversations going. W we [01:07:51] Christina: [01:07:51] definitely. Yeah. Um, and, uh, Taylor Swift is up for six Grammys on Sunday. So, you know, we definitely have suffered, gonna [01:08:00] have to be talking about with her for next [01:08:01] Brett: [01:08:01] over tired fodder for the future. All right. Oh, and we should watch, we should watch the, uh, the, the, the, the, uh, Billie Eilish. And we can [01:08:10] Christina: [01:08:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let’s watch the Billie Eilish documentary so we can talk about that. That sounds good. [01:08:14] Brett: [01:08:14] All right. Rock on. Get some sleep. [01:08:16] Christina: [01:08:16] Get some sleep.

Here’s the plan: Get 3 hours of sleep. Start a podcast. Sleep for 6–8 hours. Finish the podcast. So this is really a 9 hour podcast that you can get through in under an hour. That’s the level of efficiency you can expect from us. Sponsor Ritual is a scientifically developed and tested multivitamin delivered to you monthly. Start your Ritual today and save 10% on your first 3 months at ritual.com/OVERTIRED. Helix: Get the best sleep of your life on a Helix mattress. Helix is offering Overtired listeners up to $200 off all mattress orders AND two free pillows. Just go to helixsleep.com/overtired. Show Links UHK V2 Ghostery uBlock Experts sound the alarm on declining birth rates among younger generations Google to Stop Selling Ads Based on Your Specific Web Browsing Automate tasks with Power Automate Desktop for Windows 10—no additional cost Bunch Beta Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript 20210303 0933 Guest [00:00:00] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:00:00] So w you’re you’re now listening to what is going to be weird episode of over tired, uh, w w this is Brett and Christina from the future saying, saying when we started this. Uh, you’ll see, things were, things were different than they are now. [00:00:18] So bear with us, get through the first half and we promise it gets better. [00:00:24] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:00:24] It totally gets better also like. Let us know in the discord or on Twitter or wherever, like how much, uh, of, uh, how, how angry did I sound in the first part? Cause I don’t know, but I have a feeling that I was, I was pretty cranky. [00:00:40]Intro [00:00:44] Hi, I’m Brett Terpstra. You’re listening to overtired. I’m here with Christina Warren who is extremely tired. How are you Christina? [00:00:52]20210303 0933 Guest : [00:00:52] I’m so tired. [00:00:55] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:00:55] Like, like, did you sleep at all? [00:00:57] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:00:57] I mean, I got like, uh, like three [00:01:00] hours of sleep maybe. Um, And then after we do this, I will be lucky if I get another three hours of sleep. Um, and then I have to go back in for another six, seven hours, seven hours, another like seven hours of fly posting for Microsoft ignite [00:01:18] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:01:18] Yeah, that seems unreasonable. Why, why, why, why are you asked to keep this schedule? [00:01:25] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:01:25] because it’s Microsoft ignite. And I got the, uh, short end of the stick, um, schedule wise, actually like. I think only one team who were paired up probably didn’t get this sort of, uh, kind of bad schedule combo. So the way that it works is that we had like three different groups of, of hosting pairs who are, um, hosting content in like seven hour blocks. [00:01:52] And, um, But there’s like an overlap period. Uh, when you, you pick up from the other other person and then you have [00:02:00] to get in at a certain time for, for call time for hair and makeup and stuff like that. So, um, there was one group that, you know, I think they had to be in at 6:00 AM and then they went live at eight yesterday and they went from eight until, I guess like, you know, like, uh, one, um, or, or, or two. [00:02:21] And then the next group went from two until nine, and then we went from nine until three. Um, but the, the group that went from, um, two until nine had to be back in at six and then we had to be back in at, um, my call time. Is it, uh, 1230? Uh, and then, um, the next, um, or one o’clock rather, and then the next group is, um, We’ll be taking over from us at, uh, like 9:00 PM, but we’ll do the switch off at like eight 30. [00:02:56] So they’re only the people who went, who went [00:03:00] first and are also going last a half, like a long period of time between their ships and, and the rest of us. It’s just, uh, it’s just how it works. [00:03:10] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:03:10] I, uh, historically, if anyone asked me to do anything close to that kind of schedule, I would, I would either put my foot down or I’d just quit, which is why I don’t have a job anymore. [00:03:24] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:03:24] Well, and, [00:03:24] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:03:24] it. [00:03:25] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:03:25] and in fairness to be totally honest, I mean, this is the thing where I should, we should have recorded this yesterday. I should have found a way to record this yesterday. And that way I would have been able to have an interrupted sleep. The thing that’s going to kill me is the fact that. We, uh, I got like three hours of sleep. [00:03:41] I had to do the recording or show, which I’m excited to do, but I’m very tired. And then going to try to get another period of, of sleep before I have to wake up again and go in. So [00:03:53] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:03:53] so there is such a thing as too tired. [00:03:56]20210303 0933 Guest : [00:03:56] I guess so I guess, so [00:03:59] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:03:59] lesson. [00:04:00] [00:03:59] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:03:59] that is, that is today’s lesson. So yeah. And the thing is, is it’s, it’s both tired from like, Lack of sleep, but also exhaustion because I’ve been like, it’s a lot of work. Uh, it, when you, when you, you know, see like hosting stuff, like you think, Oh, it’s not a big deal, you know, just talking to a camera. [00:04:17] Um, but there’s like energy required to have to keep that up and to have to keep up the momentum and whatnot. And so, yeah, so I’m, uh, I’m dragging ass and for that, I apologize, but the event is great. [00:04:29] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:04:29] We’re going to be okay, we’re going to, we’re going to make this a, a shorter than usual episode. Uh we’re we’re primarily doing this because we have a couple of fantastic sponsors that have paid us to do this show and, you know, we’re nothing, if not good for our, our, our good to our word. So, uh, do you wanna, do you wanna, uh, do a very tired read about multivitamins? [00:04:55] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:04:55] Actually, yeah, this, um, this is a very apt ad read [00:05:00] and, uh, to be totally honest, this is one of those, this is like a perfect instructive reason why it’s good to take a multivitamin. I’m not even joking when you, once you, you know, like, Combat both tiredness and sleepiness and exhaustion. There we go, because they’re the sleepiness and exhaustion. [00:05:21] All right. So this episode is brought to you by ritual and you might be surprised to learn that the typical multivitamins, uh, they can contain sugars and synthetic fibers and artificial colorants. And that’s mentioned all kinds of animal byproducts, like sheep, swollen, gelatin from hubs and hides, which we’re going to, but ritual is not your typical multivitamin, uh, rituals, clean, vegan, friendly formula is made with key nutrients in forms that your body can actually use. [00:05:52] No shady extras and all of rituals, nutrients come in bioavailable forms so that your body can [00:06:00] actually use them. And it’s also, non-GMO gluten and allergen-free, which is great. I really like ritual and I have to say I probably would be an even worse shape and would probably feel. Even more exhausted if I was not now taking a multivitamin. [00:06:17] And what I like about Richelle is that my vitamins show up at my doorstep every single month. All I have to do is pop a couple in the morning. And then like I filled that nutrient gap in my diet in God knows, based on what I eat or don’t eat. I have a. Nutrient gap. So it’s super, super convenient. Virtual multivitamins are delivered to your door every single month. [00:06:41] You get free shipping. Always you can start, you can snooze, or you can cancel your subscription at any time. And if you don’t like a virtual, if you don’t love ritual within your first month, they will even refund your order. So you’re literally are losing nothing. Um, they have all [00:07:00] kinds of different formulas. [00:07:00] I take the formula. That is focused on women, but you can also, you know, get, um, get one that’s, you know, uh, geared more towards your, your age or gender and you deserve to know what’s in your multivitamin. And that’s why ritual is offering our listeners. And this is great, 10% off during your first three months. [00:07:20] So visit ritual.com/overtired. Start your ritual today. [00:07:26] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:07:26] Yay. Vitamins, vitamins and sleep. [00:07:31] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:07:31] I mean, honestly, uh, I not to reread the ad, but I do feel like I would beat being like, or shape if I were not taking a multivitamin now. So. [00:07:42] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:07:42] Yeah. Um, so I have been sleeping, but I’m back on that thing where I sleep like. Maybe an hour lesson night than I should. And I don’t feel rested. So it like piles up over time. And like every day I feel a little [00:08:00] bit more tired and it’s not like, like I can function fine, but everything feels a little bit more overwhelming to me. I get more and more like scared to go outside. [00:08:12] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:08:12] Now, do you have notes? Okay. So like everyday, like you’re getting an hour less sleep than you should, but not an hour, less than the night before, but at the end of the week, Can you just like sleep in all day on like a Saturday or a Sunday or no? [00:08:27] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:08:27] is I could sleep in every day. Like I, the earliest I actually have to get up is like seven, but I. Typically, I wake up like five, five 30 and that’s. So like last week I was depressed. I was at the end of like a two week long depression. And then right after we recorded, I had like a brief manic episode and it only lasts. [00:08:54] I only, I only was sleepless entirely sleepless for one night. I got like two hours of sleep. And then the [00:09:00] next day I was in a zombie, but then I just started sleeping again. But that like seven hours a night. So I feel like I’ve never really fully recovered, but I will say I’m in a lot higher energy in better shape than you are right now. [00:09:14] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:09:14] You are, this is like a we’re in rare form right now. I have to say, we’ve been doing this. I don’t even know how many years at this point, [00:09:20] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:09:20] Who knows? It’s [00:09:21] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:09:21] seven years, it is a noble it’s seven years, but, uh, it, you know, we’ve had periods of off times, but I think this is one of the few times that I can recall more. I’ve felt like you have more energy than me. [00:09:37] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:09:37] Yeah. Uh, um, I got my, I got my U H K V two. [00:09:44] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:09:44] Ooh, let’s talk about that. Cause we were talking about keyboards last week and how I was going down that rabbit hole and Twitter made it worse. So, uh, and everybody on Twitter now wants me to build and sold her and do my own keyboard, which I, I don’t want to [00:10:00] do. I don’t think, but I don’t know. Um, but I want to hear about the uhk too, because. [00:10:05] You are the H came in and you’ve been waiting for this. So you, you not only got the keyboard early, but you also got all of the modules that everybody has been waiting for it. Right. [00:10:16] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:10:16] is correct, but, but the, uh, the keyboards showed up and the thing about the ultimate hacking keyboard is it’s completely customizable everything from like tilt and angle and risk for us to what keys do, what things. And I have a very particular way. I want mine set up. So the first thing I did was load up the, the agent that writes to the firmware and start customizing, but nothing would write to the keyboard. [00:10:45] And I contacted, uh, the developer and turns out after sending, uh, error, logs and whatnot that they put the wrong bootloader on. And [00:11:00] so the options I have. Are to go out, buy a probe and a soldering kit. And, uh, and by the, the correct, like pin, uh, solder it all back together and then use the probe to flash new. [00:11:18] I don’t like this is all foreign language to me, but to flash new firmware to it, uh, or a new bootloader or ship it back to Hungary, let them do it and wait for them to ship it back to me. I will say, as of this morning, I chose the latter option and just scheduled my DHL pickup, [00:11:38]20210303 0933 Guest : [00:11:38] Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, I think that cause you and I are both fairly technical people, uh, uh, [00:11:47] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:11:47] for you. [00:11:48] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:11:48] Right. I was going to say, but like, where I draw the line, like, I’m like very much like a software person. Right. Um, and, but, but as soon as you say, like, I need you to J tag something or I need you to solve or [00:12:00] something, and I’m going to take that solder. [00:12:03] Like I need to solder a point so I can flash the firmware. That’s when I’m like, okay. You know, I’m, I’m going to mess something up. Right. Um, like I don’t even know if you have a soldering gun. Uh, you probably do, but who knows? [00:12:17] 20210303 0933 Brett: [00:12:17] Like I, like I used to, I used to modify like police scanners to pick up like taxi cab transmissions and stuff like that. Like just little hacks, you know, it’s basically like changing one connection and suddenly you open up new bandwidth and I can do it. I’m just, I haven’t done it for 20 years. [00:12:35] I have no confidence in it. And. I like, um, I’m good at welding, but when it gets down to that really fine stuff, I don’t have feeling in my fingertips and I don’t have steady hands. And it just seems like I would, I would fuck it up. [00:12:51] 20210303 0933 Guest : [00:12:51] Yeah, I can, I can, uh, respect that. I mean, I think that the thing with this too, like, even with me. This is one of the things that I’ve kind [00:13:00] of looked at it with, like wanting to like build and have like a custom keyboard, which is a little bit different than what the, the, uh, uhk, uh, two is. Um, but this is like one of those things where I’m like, ah, you know, uh, why I’m like, I don’t know if I want to do this or not. [00:13:14] I feel like I could. Solder the points on the board to add in the switches, because that would, that, that would be more time consuming than it would be, you know, having to be very specific and, you know, and whatnot, it would be like, there’d be an opportunity for me to mess something up. But a lot of that really would be kind of a paint by numbers thing. [00:13:34] It would just be really time-consuming, but for what you would need to do, if you need to be like, it’s a very fine point sort of thing, where I’m. [00:13:48] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:13:50] Well, that was weird. It’s like, uh, it’s like we were super tired and then my internet dropped out completely and we just said, fuck it. [00:14:00] Let’s sleep. And we’ll put it out a day late. [00:14:04] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:14:04] Right. And so what’s, what’s happened since then, and it’s kind of amazing that your internet died. I’m not gonna lie. I was a little annoyed because I was so tired and I was like, I woke up for this, but. I mean, I was relieved, but then it took me like 30 minutes to get back to sleep. So it was one of those things, but no, but I am also I’m happy because I was totally not on my game at all for like the first segment of our show. [00:14:35] But now I’ve had some sleep. I finished my second, like eight hour hosting shift at Microsoft ignite. I had some sleep and now like, I feel energized. How are you feeling? [00:14:48] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:14:48] I feel the same, but that’s still better than you were yesterday. So [00:14:54] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:14:54] For sure. For sure. [00:14:56] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:14:56] you wait within like 30 seconds of when, when I [00:15:00] first called you before we started recording, you told me I was being too animated. I had said like five words and you’re like, calm down. [00:15:08] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:15:08] I know I was so grumpy, but also tired. It was one of those things where like everything was loud and yeah. [00:15:16] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:15:16] I usually hide. I would, I would have canceled doing the podcasts if it had been me. [00:15:23]20210304 0832 Guest : [00:15:23] Well, I didn’t, I didn’t like, I didn’t feel like I could and I was just like, I’ve committed and yeah. So [00:15:30] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:15:30] I also wouldn’t have been able to get through like an eight hour live hosting thing. I just, I don’t have it in me to put myself through that kind of thing. [00:15:41] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:15:41] Yeah, no, I mean, it’s, it’s not for everyone for sure. So, [00:15:46] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:15:46] so, you know what I did last night, [00:15:48] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:15:48] What was that? [00:15:49] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:15:49] I slept on a very nice mattress. [00:15:52] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:15:52] Oh, tell me about it [00:15:54] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:15:54] I should. I feel like, I feel like I’m getting paid to, to mention this now. [00:16:00] Um, I should, I should bring up the read. Okay. So. As you are fully aware. We are often very tired. Uh, my brain doesn’t always let me sleep. And Christina has, uh, uh, sometimes very crazy work schedule. [00:16:16] But when my brain cooperates, my body loves my helix mattress. I, uh, I went to their website and I took their two minute quiz and they matched my body type and my sleep preferences to what they called the midnight mattress. I love that it’s not a one size fits all kind of company. And, uh, and after a few months of sleeping on this midnight mattress, I can say they got it. [00:16:38] Absolutely. Right. So if you had to helix. Helix sleep.com/overtired. You can take the quiz yourself and find out what mattress you should be sleeping on. They have soft, medium and firm mattresses, mattresses. Great for cooling you down a few sleep hot and even a helix plus mattress for plus sized folks. [00:16:59] Oh, and they were [00:17:00] awarded the number one best overall mattress pick of 2020 by GQ and wired magazine. So if you want to sleep better and be less overtired. Take the quiz order the mattress, your match too. And it will come right to your door, shipped for free. And if you use our link helix, it’s offering over-tired listeners up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows. [00:17:23] Just go to helix sleep.com/overtired. There’s a 10 year warranty and you get to try it out for a hundred nights. Risk-free they’ll even pick it up for you. If you don’t love it. So, if you’re ready to sleep better, that’s helix.com/overtired. You won’t regret it. And we got through two ad reads, uh, on, uh, we’re going to call this an off week [00:17:46] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:17:46] Yeah. Yeah, this is definitely not like a super normal week, but we did get through, um, two ad reads. [00:17:53] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:17:53] I feel like we, we really gave it our all. [00:17:55]20210304 0832 Guest : [00:17:55] Yes, 100%. [00:17:57] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:17:57] I mean, we gave all, we had to [00:18:00] give, if I were a sponsor, I’d be like, you know what, they really, they really put in the effort, this was worth it. Did you know that? Uh, so back in the seventies, they predicted, uh, that the within 10 years world population was going to become too large to sustain. [00:18:21] And like, it was. Going to be the end of the world. And now they expected a baby boom during COVID. We didn’t get it. People are too concerned about both health and finances. So there’s like, Oh, we’re on the verge of the opposite crisis. Now, uh, young people, aren’t having enough babies to support the massive number of old people that are getting to retirement age. [00:18:45] Now, [00:18:49] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:18:49] That’s [00:18:50] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:18:50] did you have? [00:18:51] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:18:51] this, this is none. [00:18:55] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:18:55] me either. I got of his sect me. I feel like I really screwed over the boomers. [00:19:01] [00:19:00] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:19:01] Yeah, no, I, I mean, I I’ve been very clear with everyone in my life that I’m not going to be a parent. So like, [00:19:11] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:19:11] go ahead. [00:19:12] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:19:12] I was just going to say, like I always said, and this was like true. I was like, if my sister needed a surrogate, I would have done that. Right. But that would have been, and I meant it when I told her I would do that because we thought that she would never, we didn’t think that she would be able to take carry. [00:19:31] Um, that has obviously not been the case and she is going to have a baby in may, but that was always what we assumed. And. As I’ve gotten older and she’s gotten older, I kind of even assumed I was like, all right, well, I guess I got out of this whole surrogate thing, but like, that was my whole thing. I was like, if I had to be someone surrogate, like my sister, or like a very like good, like same-sex couple like good friends or whatever, who really couldn’t find anyone else fine. [00:19:58] But that was [00:20:00] always like, as much as I was willing to do. [00:20:02] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:20:02] I, uh, I was on my way to the, uh, to LARC toys to buy Easter, like just little basket stuffers for my nine, uh, nieces and nephews between Ella and I, we buy for everybody. So between the two of us, we, I think. Let me see five, three, eight to buy for eight kids, which seemed like a lot. And on our way to the store, I get a text message, a group text from my sister saying she’s pregnant again. [00:20:34] And she’s having another baby. And I got to say, I felt like it w like it was a slight against me. Like I felt like they were just trying to make my life harder. I immediately made it about me. [00:20:49]20210304 0832 Guest : [00:20:49] I mean, I think that this is actually probably why you got the sec dummy, [00:20:54] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:20:54] it really is because I’m a selfish asshole. [00:20:59] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:20:59] but you’re [00:21:00] aware of that. Right. So that’s a good thing. So, right. So there you go. [00:21:05] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:21:05] Yeah. Right. I always said I would adopt, you know, like try to curb the population. I didn’t realize that we were going to run short of people. Yeah, well, so I don’t expect to live. I don’t expect the world’s actually going to be in any kind of a non dystopian state by the time I retire. [00:21:26] So not really concerned about having enough young people to drain the blood from. [00:21:33] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:21:33] I mean, I’ve totally would like, I think Peter Sheila’s a monster, but if the whole, like, you know, Blood transfusion thing really did like revive like youth. I would be down with that, but that would basically be like the only reason I would be upset. Like if we had like, I mean, obviously we don’t want the world to end because we don’t have enough people, but I also feel like a lot of this could be curved simply by China lifting its one child policy, [00:22:00] [00:21:59] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:21:59] well, so [00:22:00] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:22:00] which they’ve done, you know, they’ve had a soft limit on that, but it’s still not something that’s like overly encouraged or that happens very frequently. [00:22:09] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:22:09] It’s not that the world is short of human beings. Like there are just, there are way too many people. It’s just that we structured our economy, uh, such that having a F a F an influx of working age people to support retired people. Is, uh, is vital. And I feel like if, if things were a little more, uh, like socialist and it, and it weren’t, if everyone wasn’t scraping by right now, it wouldn’t be a huge problem. [00:22:43] I’m not an economist. And I don’t, I don’t understand all the math behind it, but it seems to me like there are actually enough people in the world we’re just really bad with money. [00:22:54] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:22:54] Yeah. I mean, I think that’s probably the biggest thing and it’s also, it’s one of those things that it’s, I mean, on the one hand, I [00:23:00] do agree with you that in general, we should probably go more. Socialist, although I’m going to be a bad leftist and say that I don’t actually believe in total socialism. Um, I, I think that that is very problematic as well. [00:23:14] There’s, there’s a balance and there are some Scandinavian countries in some European countries that do it well, but I actually am not a full-blown like socialist in like the, the Marxist sense or whatever, but, uh, there was a time, you know, before. 401ks. And, and everybody kind of was like, do it on your own where you worked a job and you got a pension. And that was a thing. And there are still some careers that have that. Right. But it’s very rare. And I feel like there’s a balance that could be done to put the burden on. Cause, cause the thing is, it’s also not like we were running out of money. Like we have corporations and we have certain like very, very, very, very wealthy individuals who have an outsized proportion of that wealth. [00:24:00] [00:23:59] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:23:59] outsized. [00:24:00] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:24:00] And so it’s one of those things where I’m kind of like, okay, you know, like the, the right, like, like the, like the, the complete, like free market. I don’t even want to say capitalist because I don’t even believe it’s truly capitalist argument, to be honest, but like the total, like free market argument about, you know, 401k is, Oh, you know, you can choose what you can do with your money and this and this and this. [00:24:20] And it’s like, yeah, but I would much rather have a guaranteed, you know, um, Retirement. If I work at a place for a long period of time or something going into, you know, a, a fund, um, then the fact that, I mean like you and I have paid into social security, which we will never see a dime of ever, which is [00:24:41] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:24:41] I, I heard. I heard that the big, the, like, that was kind of like a definitive, like 10 years ago, they were like, yeah, this generation generation X, uh, isn’t there, we’re going to run dry, but that seems to have, uh, uh, become more of a point of [00:25:00] debate. Uh, in the last five years I I’ve heard, heard actually you’re going to be fine. [00:25:06] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:25:06] I don’t think so. I mean, generation X, some, some, some generation X people might and generation X. We also should note that it was actually a very small generation in terms of the number of people. And, and it’s a unit it’s period of time, which is up for debate. There are obviously a lot of millennials, which I’m part of, and then there are tons of the zoomers. [00:25:29] I feel pretty confident that, you know, I’ve got another 30 years minimum of working and that I’m not going to see a single cent of anything that I paid into. Like not a single cent, like no question. [00:25:44] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:25:44] Yeah, I don’t foresee myself ever retiring. I can’t, I have too much debt to live on social security. I have like zero, I split my 401k, uh, like, like quit my job. [00:26:00] So my 401k stopped being contributed to then I got divorced and I split it with a D D and then I went broke and I was paying like $1,200 a month in health insurance and started. [00:26:12] Uh, tapping into my 401k early and I got nothing. Like I, I have no, uh, unless things really turn around and I get like a really high paying job in the next few years. I’ll probably work into my eighties. It’s about if I live that long, my family does not have a history of living past seventies. [00:26:35]Yeah. This is fun. [00:26:38] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:26:38] I was going to say, I was like, all right, I’m not, I’m depressed now. Um, we’re working, we’re going to work forever. Um, [00:26:44] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:26:44] depressed. [00:26:45] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:26:45] basically. [00:26:47] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:26:47] Uh, the other news that I, I, that caught my eye since we had, you know, 24 hours to really think about what we’re going to talk about. I can only read the first four [00:27:00] paragraphs of this article because I don’t pay for the wall street journal. It never will. Um, but it says. [00:27:06] That Google plants, the stop selling ads based on individual browsing across multiple websites. So do you know anything about this? Cause that is, that’s like, that’s a huge part of the ad revenue for a huge portion of internet advertising. [00:27:24] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:27:24] Yeah. So I looked into this and it is, it seems to be. [00:27:31]There seems to be a lot of debate over whether like, like what this actually means, like, like what definitive, like purposes is going to have. So, so Google came out and basically said like, it, it, um, it like clarified its plans basically around targeted advertising, basically saying that it’s not going to use other ways to track users, um, around the internet, once it in support for, uh, for, uh, third-party cookies in Chrome by early 20, 22. [00:27:58] Um, [00:28:00] And, and then like in, they had a blog post and it said something like I’m paraphrasing from CNBC here, because this came out after the, the wall street journal, um, uh, article came up, which raised more questions. Uh, they basically says, um, they’ll use privacy preserving technologies that rely on methods like anonymization or aggregation of data. [00:28:19] And that they, they did announce in January that they were going to end support for third party cookies. And, um, In, in its, in its digital advertising system and within the Chrome browser within two years. So on the one hand, like this is good because third party cookies have kind of been, um, uh, Scouts on, on the, the world. [00:28:42] On the other hand, I have questions about how much Dionne D anonymization and, and other stuff, some of these, like. Ways that they claim are going to be privacy focused are actually going to work. [00:28:58] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:28:58] T uh, [00:29:00] anonymization D anonymization would be horrifying. [00:29:03] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:29:03] No, exactly. No, no, no. Well that that’s, I guess my point, I guess my, my buy, I said it wrong. So like, yeah. I I’m I’m I’m I’m not, I’m not really sure how well these anonymization and aggregation things will work. If that makes any sense. I, I wonder if those will still be able to be de anonymized. [00:29:20]To the point that they can still be tied back to an individual. [00:29:26] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:29:26] Yeah, well, and I guess, like, I see that the ad industry, if you look at, uh, like targeted ads, uh, that, that come through Facebook and Instagram, they’re very much focused on, uh, purchase history and sentiment. And I think sentiment tracking is, uh, it’s invasive to privacy and I’m a little more worried about. [00:29:52] Sentiment tracking as far as, uh, it just feels so, uh, invasive to me, [00:30:00] uh, that I’m more worried about that than I am about them. Knowing that I visited certain websites. [00:30:06] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:30:06] Right. I mean, I think that, that my concern has always been, and I think the broader concern has always been like, It’s one thing for data, for it’s one thing for, for Facebook or Google or Apple or Microsoft, or whoever to know about your, your habits like that they’ve tracked across their properties. It’s another thing when they sell that data to other people that can then be aggregated and uses a profile for you like that, I think is honestly the bigger concern. [00:30:30] And that’s always been the bigger concern for me is the fact that, and that’s been the way that it’s worked with these third-party cookies. Is that. You’ve been able to build a really robust profile from those cookies that have been on basically every website and the Google, you know, was really kind of a leader and they didn’t create it, but they certainly exploited it. [00:30:47] Um, as part of their, their ad networks to basically be able to create a remarkably robust profile that could then be sold to various ad exchanges to target you [00:31:00] however you want it. And so I feel like. Getting rid of that, I think is a definitely a good thing. And I I’m, I’m glad that Google is doing that. [00:31:09] Um, but I still feel like, as you said, a there there’s there’s sentiment, there’s targeted, there’s other stuff, and I’m not real clear. And the way that the wall street journal report was written, I’m not real clear that like Google has said, Oh, we’re not going to be using any other methods, you know, to kind of get around, getting rid of, of third-party cookies. [00:31:30] But I’m still not real clear on like, okay, but your first party approach, how much data and information do you know from that? And you’re saying that you’re going to aggregate it, but do you still really know this stuff? And is this still tracks somewhere? You know what I mean? Like, I don’t know. I’m, I’m, I’m sort of skeptical because, because they’re talking about. [00:31:46] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:31:46] trust Google. [00:31:47] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:31:47] Hell. No. Now, you know, I mean, cause they’re calling this thing, your privacy sandbox, uh, I’m now reading directly from the wall street journal and said, Google says it will use new technologies. It is, um, it is developing with others. That’s always [00:32:00] problematic to developing with others and what it calls a privacy sandbox to target ads without collecting information about individuals from multiple websites. [00:32:08] Once this technology analyzes user’s browsing habits on their devices and allows advertisers to target aggregated groups of users with similar interests or cohorts rather than individual users. Google said in January that it plans to begin open testing of ad buying using that technology in the second quarter. [00:32:23] So the total like cynic in me is saying that a, what they just described is kind of that sentiment. Um, I guess like tracking sort of like targeted advertising that you said that you were worried by. So it’s not as if you’re not still going to be getting advertising targeted to you. It’s just that ideally this profile of who you are and all the things and all the millions of data points that are available about you don’t get sold on mass because they’re tied to a third-party cookie on your machine, but it’s not as if you, and based on the things that you do online, aren’t [00:33:00] still going to be getting targeted advertising. [00:33:01] They’re just claiming, Oh, well, we won’t know who you are. So. [00:33:04] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:33:04] mean, you’ll be, you’ll be sold as part of a group, which is more, more anonymous than being directly targeted by advertising. So that that’s a step in the right direction. Yeah. Uh, w I had mentioned, uh, I think it was on this show that I, I was gonna stop sending, tracking pixels with email newsletters, but then I heard from a bunch of people doing everything from like full on email marketing to sending out church newsletters, who said that they actually, the data they got just from knowing open rates. [00:33:40] What is useful enough and it was not like it, they, nobody seemed to think it was actually a privacy invasion. So no I’m torn. I think I will send them because it is handy to know open rates. [00:33:55] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:33:55] No. I mean, that’s kind of my feeling on a newsletter. I also feel like if I’m being honest, like [00:34:00] I’m creeped out by what superhuman and some of the other pixel tracking things do where you can be like, Oh, this person opened your email X times or this person. And we talked about that. Like that bothers me. [00:34:10] And I have friends who will write as a gotcha in their stories. You know, using the service. I, I found out that this person read the email. I sent them multiple times, but didn’t respond. And I’m like, okay, first of all, kind of fuck off. Right? Like, that’s not cool. If someone did that to you, some of these same people would be writing about how, what an invasion. [00:34:29] It was like some genuinely, some of these same people would be writing those things. So part of me, I’m kind of like, okay, fuck off with that. But on the other hand, I also feel like with the newsletter, especially if I’ve subscribed to it, uh, it might be a little bit different if it’s a marketing newsletter that I did not opt into, the just kind of came to me because I bought something from somewhere. [00:34:47] But if I make the decision to subscribe to a newsletter, I implicitly feel like I am giving my permission for there to be. A way for people to track openly like, like open rates and [00:35:00] also like what links I click, maybe I’m overly estimating the rec the rest of the public on that. I’d love to hear from our listeners, like what they think, but, um, I’m not, I don’t like being, you know, tracked and targeted and I certainly would not mind if there was a pop-up. [00:35:17] In male clients that basically let you know that those pixels are there. Like, I, I wouldn’t be mad at that. Right. Even, even if it comes across as like shaming, like that’s fine with me. I feel like you could include even like a, an addendum or a small print, like in the newsletter to be like, yes, I use a tracking pixel it’s for this reason. [00:35:36] Um, and, and people could do with it, what they wanted, but like, I’m not personally bothered by a newsletter that I choose to subscribe to you. Choosing to track whether I’ve opened something or not. And, um, you know, what links I’ve clicked. And in fact, I just kind of assumed that they’re going to do that because why else would they want me to sign up for an email newsletter? [00:35:57] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:35:57] Yeah, well, so like I talked about how [00:36:00] MailMate has a built-in blocking and a big red bar that shows up and I’ve realized maybe that bar needs to be less red. Uh, like when I opened an email and the top, like half inch of it is a bright red bar that it makes me feel this sense of like, Oh no, they’ve done something awful and they’ve been caught, but maybe that bar should just be a little.in the corner that says we, we blocked a pixel or notifies you that there is a pixel in the, I feel like it’s a bit severe now that I’ve gone through this whole conversation. [00:36:36] I just feel like it’s a bit severe. [00:36:40] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:36:40] Yeah, yeah. I’m with that. I mean, I, like I said, I do think services like superhuman are super gross, but, um, I, I don’t know. I feel like if you subscribe to, if you make the decision to subscribe to like an email newsletter, I’m personally okay. With people tracking whether or not it opened or not, because as you said, like it’s not, it is [00:37:00] useful information. [00:37:00] And I don’t know, I kind of feel like the same way with people who are like, Oh, I don’t need, I don’t want any analytics on my website. It’s like, I mean, okay. I guess, but that, that also strikes me is. You know, simplistic and I don’t know. Um, also I’m like, I’m, I’m, I’m, uh, I’m personally like a curious motherfucker, like I’m, I’m nosy and I want to know the things, but again, like, I think there’s a difference too. [00:37:26] It’s like, I don’t know who this individual was. Right. [00:37:28] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:37:28] don’t have there, you don’t know who the individual was and you’re not trying to collect and sell that data. You’re using it for your own own purposes internally. And I do think there’s a difference there. It’s just when people use Google analytics, there’s, you know, the concern that it’s not just being used internally, they’re just adding to Google’s data set, [00:37:50] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:37:50] Right. Which now, apparently, which is not an an, you know, fair thing. But now apparently, you know, if Google is not going to be selling that information, [00:38:00] maybe it becomes easier to understand. I’m not sure, you know, that the thing is, is a lot of times, even when you have, when you block third party tracking, Google analytics, doesn’t get blocked because it’s considered a first party cookie. [00:38:09] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:38:09] really? Huh? This Ghostery black Google analytics. [00:38:14] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:38:14] Yeah, it does. Uh, if you, if you directly enable in some of those scripts, like go straight in and you block origin, if you have certain privacy settings on. You know, from certain privacy lists and there are certain other ones that will, but in terms of like what the browsers do by default, they don’t block it. [00:38:28] Not even Mozilla, like they don’t block Google analytics. And in fact, Firefox, I’m sorry. Like I know that we love Mozilla here, but they’re big fucking hypocrites because a, they sell a VPN service that they get money from. That’s not even like a real good one. From what I understand, there’s there’s like some weird. [00:38:44] Stuff with it or maybe I’m wrong. Actually, I take that back. I think that the one there with is fine, but they sell a VPN service. So that in and of itself is sketch the own pocket, which, you know, they there, and now they’re selling, you know, sponsored, um, you know, tabs on, on the homepage, but they also have fucking [00:39:00] Google analytics on their website and on their blogs and stuff. [00:39:03] So, you know, they talk about, Oh, we, we don’t want to have any sort of tracking of this and that. And then they track. Stuff on their own website. And I’m like, right, because it can be useful, right? Like to me, don’t take like a completely like anti any tracking line. If you’re going to be tracking shit yourself, like at least be open and honest and be like, it’s nuanced and it’s complicated. [00:39:25] And we don’t want to sell this information or have it tied to a specific person, but we are also nosy motherfuckers. [00:39:32] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:39:32] you know, with Google analytics, you can turn on and off demographic tracking. Which greatly, if you turn off demographic tracking, it greatly reduces the amount of personal information that you’re gathering. I feel like in a case like Mozilla, that could say we use Google analytics to track, uh, very anonymized details about traffic, but we’re not collecting all of this other data that Google [00:40:00] makes available. [00:40:00] Um, And, and like, I mean, we’ve talked about alternatives to Google analytics, which I do feel like Mozilla would, uh, be wise to take advantage of. But [00:40:13] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:40:13] I mean, if nothing else from an optics perspective, like to me, it’s not even like it. Cause I don’t, I don’t care. Like Missoula can do whatever the hell Mozilla wants to do. I mean, awesome. Zilla. Let’s be very, like, let’s be very clear is only in business as I both a nonprofit and like as a for-profit entity because of Google. [00:40:29] So. Like literally all of their money comes from Google and they laid off a bunch of people because Google cut how much they give firebox every year. And, you know, cause they give them like $200 million a year. Um, so you know, there there’s massive [00:40:45] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:40:45] Firefox money? [00:40:47] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:40:47] because Google is the default search engine in Firefox. [00:40:51] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:40:51] yeah. [00:40:51] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:40:51] And when, and when Yahoo was trying to still be a thing, Yahoo paid them more than Yahoo was bought by oath and or [00:41:00] Yahoo, Yahoo was then became oath or whatever. And. Had to like, they basically ended their agreement with Firefox early. I think there was some sort of settlement where Firefox probably got paid out what they’d been promised, even though the agreement didn’t continue. [00:41:15] And, um, then they resigned with Google and then Google, because Google is in a much greater position of power has like cut how much they are going to give Firefox, but they still give them like $200 billion a year. So yeah. [00:41:30] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:41:30] do you want to hear a super funny joke that Al made up this morning? [00:41:34] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:41:34] I do. [00:41:34] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:41:34] Do you know what Pangea is the supercontinent. Like prior to, uh, the, like the F the earth, as we know it today, like all the continents were joined [00:41:45] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:41:45] Yeah. It was all in Africa. And then it split up right. [00:41:48] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:41:48] And I mentioned this randomly in con uh, conversation over coffee this morning and her immediate response without batting an eye, she said, uh, I want to start a [00:42:00] band called Pangea just, we can have a really good breakup story. That’s my girlfriend. That’s, [00:42:08] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:42:08] That’s actually awesome. [00:42:09] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:42:09] that’s the kind of wit you can expect from her early in the morning. I’m talking like six, am she? Yeah. Anyway. [00:42:19] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:42:19] That’s actually, that’s very clever. That’s really good. And like, that’s very dry. I like that a lot. [00:42:24] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:42:24] She, uh, she works in a direct care. It’s called she, she works with developmentally challenged people and she has, uh, a specific house that she works at. And. Um, as part of, kind of COVID relief there, they take long drives and they go visit, uh, community members and they do like driveway waves and, and distance greetings. [00:42:48] And, uh, they listen to music while they travel around and she asked me, I think it was. Two days ago, uh, to remind her, which, uh, which Taylor Swift [00:43:00] album Christina had recommended, she listened to because she was gonna make that the driving around music. So I’ll have to check back in with her and see if she listened to folklore or not. [00:43:09] But she, she she’s trying. She really is. [00:43:13] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:43:13] I appreciate that. Thank you, L. [00:43:15] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:43:15] Well, okay. So we did two halves. One half I would say was, was superior to another half. [00:43:22] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:43:22] Yeah. Um, and, uh, [00:43:25] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:43:25] which, which one I think was better. Cause [00:43:26] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:43:26] no, I think, I think the latter half was better. Uh, definitely. I think, I think half number two, uh, you, you, you want to talk about bunch. [00:43:34] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:43:34] I I’ll just keep shifting it for it’s become like a total obsession for me. Uh, part of it is because I’m waiting on Fletcher for so much stuff with NBA, ultra that all of my development energy has to go somewhere. And I’m getting very close to making bunch of commercial app. Uh, so if we ever run out of things to talk about, I can always talk about what I’ve just added to bunch that [00:44:00] day. [00:44:00] Uh, but we don’t have to get into it right now. [00:44:03]20210304 0832 Guest : [00:44:03] I am curious, and we don’t have to super get into it right now, but I mean, you’ve been talking about this for the last couple of weeks that you’ve been thinking about making this commercial. What does that change like? Does that change from your development approach? Like I’m assuming that you would have to kind of refine the UI more. [00:44:18] Would there have to be some onboarding? Does that change like permissions that you need for stuff like. [00:44:22] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:44:22] yeah, so I did, as part of the current beta, I added a fancy preference panel and a whole bunch of onboarding, uh, smoothness and, uh, re we wrote a ton of the documentation. Uh, but as far as permissions go, the stuff that. It does. And the way that it works kind of makes sandboxing impossible. Uh, so we will join the ranks of things like better touch tool and Hazel that really have no chance of existing in the Mac app store. [00:44:55] I don’t think Hazel’s in the Mac app store. [00:44:57] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:44:57] No, it’s not, [00:44:58] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:44:58] but it’ll be [00:45:00] in that kind of automation niche. There was a long conversation, not long, but there was a conversation on the discord channel about whether it’s niche or niche. And, [00:45:11] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:45:11] I think it’s niche. [00:45:13] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:45:13] uh, most people agreed with niche apparently in Webster’s dictionary, the primary pronunciation as a ch in it. [00:45:21] Um, we were also talking about. Oh, we went through a lot of words, uh, disagreement, like words that confuse people. But niche was my question. Cause I, I like every time I say it, I feel like I’m getting it wrong. But anyways, in that automation niche, um, of apps that, that can’t be Mac app store apps, but still, uh, I hope I can gain some, some fraction of the popularity is something like Hazel. [00:45:49]20210304 0832 Guest : [00:45:49] Yeah, no, I hope so too. I like that. Um, actually it’s funny. One of the cool, I mean, this is, this is for, for windows users, which I realize is not, uh, UN like this is the definitely the minority of [00:46:00] our audience, but, um, this was actually a cool thing that was announced at ignite this week is that, um, power automate desktop, which came out in October. [00:46:11] But. Would cost money to do kind of anything with which is an app that basically is it’s a desktop app that runs, you know, on windows that lets you build in, you know, a lot of kind of automation tools to either create reports or, or do macros to do stuff. You know, even if it’s like Photoshop actions or, um, you know, sending emails or grabbing stuff from websites or whatever. [00:46:32] Um, it’s a, it’s a pretty cool app. It’s actually now free, um, on windows 10. For anybody, if you want to do some of the more advanced stuff like scheduling and running stuff, kind of like headless or whatever, then it costs some money. But the, you know, the basic kind of, you know, version or whatever, um, is now going to be available to everybody for free, which is kind of cool. [00:46:56] So if you’ve been a windows person and you, I wanted to be able to [00:47:00] do stuff like what Hazel does, uh, check that out. [00:47:04] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:47:04] Yeah, that is cool. Yeah. I will tell you the, the last feature that I completed that’s ready for publication in Bunche is a long tail. Like, so here’s how it started. I needed as part of this smoother onboarding process, I needed a bunch to be able to pop up, uh, an HTML, uh, view of here’s what just happened. [00:47:28] Uh, here’s how you edit the file. Click here to open preferences, et cetera. Um, And so I built that and then I was like, wouldn’t it be cool if this could, uh, also just view text files and then that became, wouldn’t it be cool if this could tail log files and then it was wouldn’t this be cool. If they could translate ANSI escape, colors into NS, attributed strings for display, and then wouldn’t it be cool if you could position, if you could tell it exact coordinates in size in which display to put the window on and then define whether it was like [00:48:00] wallpaper level. [00:48:00] Or desktop level or a normal window or a floating window. And I added all of that. So now there’s like a, uh, a text command. You can write display system log, give it some parameters for foreground and background colors and, and make it a desktop window. And you can like pop up a visor to tell your system log when you open a bunch and then it closes with a bunch that’s the kind of quality you can expect from commercial. [00:48:28] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:48:28] Very nice, but that’s also like a ridiculously nerdy and like amount of, uh, I kind of love it though. [00:48:36] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:48:36] Yeah. I have a very, I have a very specific target audience in mind for this app. I gave up on trying to make it something the general public could use, because let me come on. It’s, you’re creating automation with text files, which is basically scripting and that’s a limited audience right there. [00:48:52] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:48:52] I was going to say, it’s it’s for people who want to script, but don’t want to write Python themselves. [00:48:58] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:48:58] Well, like, there’s a [00:49:00] lot of things that you just can’t easily do with a shell script that requires some kind of, uh, objective C Swift interface to the, to the operating system. So this basically creates almost a scripting language that makes it more direct interaction like that possible. But anyway, [00:49:18] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:49:18] No. I mean, this is, this is basically, this would be kind of like a, a DSL, like a domain specific language, honestly. [00:49:24] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:49:24] yeah, yeah. So anyway, uh, I, I, we both have places to get to and, and, and people to be, so thanks for, uh, thanks for getting some sleep, Christina. [00:49:37] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:49:37] Well, thank you for, I guess, your internet going out. Although a quick question. How long was it before it came back up? Cause that had to be annoying when it just went out. [00:49:45] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:49:45] eight, eight took I rebooted, nothing came up and then I think it was about 45 minutes. I waited, uh, I was just about to call the server per service provider and, uh, and deal with getting someone out and then it came [00:50:00] back up. So I would say a total of about, just less than an hour. [00:50:05]20210304 0832 Guest : [00:50:05] Okay. All right. Well that makes me feel a little bit better. That’s still sucks, but I’m glad that it wasn’t like an all day thing. So, uh, sorry that your internet went out. I am sort of happy. Because now we were able to have like, uh, we’re still kind of in an off week, we were able to have like a much more normal second half of the show. [00:50:20] So [00:50:21] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:50:21] w we, we basically rescued the show. [00:50:24] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:50:24] basically that, that should probably be the episode title. The show was saved. [00:50:28]20210304 0832 Brett: [00:50:28] maybe I’ll maybe I’ll cut in the part where you are. You yelled at me. It’ll be fun. [00:50:35] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:50:35] I’m sorry for yelling at you. I was very tired, but I’m very sorry for yelling at you. Although I didn’t yell at you. I was just like, you’re so loud. [00:50:43] 20210304 0832 Brett: [00:50:43] You said calm down. I need you to calm down. All right. Well, uh, I’m glad, I’m glad you’re better rested. I hope you get even more sleep, Christina. [00:50:52] 20210304 0832 Guest : [00:50:52] Thank you, Brett. Hope you get some great sleep too. [00:50:59] [00:50:59]

Music on vinyl, porn on paper, and mixed-race same-sex couples finally get their own emojis. And we talk about keyboards, of course. Sponsors Nebia: The Nebia by Moen Spa Shower uses 45% less water while providing a serious upgrade to your shower time. The first 100 people to use code overtired at Nebia.com will get 15% off all Nebia products. Just head to Nebia.com/overtired. Audible is the leading provider of spoken-word entertainment and audiobooks, ranging from best sellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, languages, motivation, original entertainment, podcasts and more. Visit audible.com/overtired, or text overtired to 500–500 to start your free trial. Show Links Pretty 8 Machine on vinyl Apple’s new emoji NYT: How Y’all, Youse and You Guys Talk keyboards.io Daft Punk Splitting Up After 28 Years Spy pixels in emails have become endemic Fathom Analytics Plausible Analytics Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] Welcome to overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren. How are you, Christina? [00:00:10] Christina: [00:00:10] I’m pretty good, Brad, I’m pretty good. Uh, I am like, it’s one of those classic overtired things. Cause I am a little tired because I’ve been like super busy the last couple of days, but yeah, I’m good. How are you? [00:00:21] Brett: [00:00:21] I’m over arrested. I’m fucking depressed. [00:00:24] Christina: [00:00:24] Oh, no. [00:00:25] Brett: [00:00:25] it’s, it’s been like a week now. Uh, like I think I talked about it last time, but it turned out like, Like I always end this like very mild manic episode for like two weeks. And I didn’t, it was so mild. I didn’t realize what was happening and well, almost three weeks, really. [00:00:46] So all of a sudden it like ended. And I’ve been sleeping a lot and watching a lot of Netflix and my internet went down yesterday and it was this nightmarish moment of like, I’m depressed. [00:01:00] I just want to keep the cats warm on the couch. And now I don’t have Netflix. What reminded me of a time before streaming television. [00:01:11] Um, [00:01:12] Christina: [00:01:12] You’re like, wait, I ha. Yeah. Cause you’re like, wait, I have to watch things on these, these disks now, which you might not even have. [00:01:19] Brett: [00:01:19] even have anymore. Like I re I, it made me remember the days when yeah. I had like a DVD collection and I could like go back and used to have hard copy porn. Do you remember those days? So long ago, [00:01:33] Christina: [00:01:33] Oh, that’s hilarious. Hard. Copy [00:01:35] Brett: [00:01:35] they used to print that stuff on paper and it didn’t even move. It was so weird. It was so weird. [00:01:42] Um, yeah. Speaking of, no, I’m just kidding. I’m not going to turn that into a sponsor read right there. [00:01:49] Christina: [00:01:49] No. I was going to say I don’t, I don’t know if it would work kind of for one of them. [00:01:54] Brett: [00:01:54] Hey, would like, because there is actually a Radic picture available on [00:02:00] audible. [00:02:00] Christina: [00:02:00] Oh, see, I was actually thinking like the shower [00:02:03] Brett: [00:02:03] Oh yeah. We could. Oh, so many possibilities. Yet, we’re going to have some tastes and class, and we’re going [00:02:11] Christina: [00:02:11] We are, we’re not going to do that. [00:02:12] Brett: [00:02:12] we’re talking about like the Holocaust or, or sexually assault or something before we make [00:02:18] Christina: [00:02:18] Nope. I was going to say. I was going to say, that’s what the sponsors, uh, pay us the, the very small dollars to do. That’s really what it’s about. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s the Holocaust and in sexual assault that you want to be your segues, not, not, not pornography because this is America, right? Exactly. [00:02:38] Brett: [00:02:38] So today’s episode is brought to you by audible and Nebia by Mowen what we’re going to tell you about that later, because right now I want to talk about pretty eight machine. [00:02:50] Christina: [00:02:50] Okay. Tell me about this because I just, I’m just looking at you. I saw this in our, in our notes. I was just looking at the vinyl and I’ve never heard this. So tell me all [00:03:00] about this because it looks great. [00:03:01] Brett: [00:03:01] Yeah. A couple years ago, uh, this guy, uh, who goes by inverse phase on band camp put out, actually, it’s been like it’s been years, but a while back, uh, 2011. no, no, no, no. He, he S I’m sorry. I’m, I’m looking at his bio. He started doing chip tunes in 2011, but the, uh, this album. I can’t remember what year it came out, but it’s been a little while. [00:03:29] Anyway, it’s a, it’s a note for note chip tune cover of the pretty hate machine album by nine inch nails. And it is, it is it’ll blow your mind. If, if you appreciate eight bit chip tunes and you appreciate nine inch nails in any pit to any level of, of a fandom. It, this is an amazing album and he just, uh, this year launched a campaign [00:04:00] to put it out on vinyl and he is already. [00:04:04] He’s art. It like it’s definitely happening. He hit his first goal, like right away. Uh, and then he set a second goal of like 500 records and he has met that. And at this point he’s actually, uh, reaching out and trying to get it into record stores and game stores. And, uh, so if the current pledge amount is to actually, uh, fund. [00:04:32] Getting this into stores. So he’s still looking for pledges despite having he’s he’s, he’s reached, uh, $19,000 in pledges, but I would jump on this if you, uh, if you own a turntable, that’s the third, the third prerequisite as you have to have it. Well, I mean, I suppose you could own it and never listened to it. [00:04:53] You could own [00:04:54] Christina: [00:04:54] No, no, you totally could. [00:04:55] Brett: [00:04:55] to it on band camp. [00:04:57] Christina: [00:04:57] Exactly. I was going to say, cause I’m buying it right now. [00:05:00] And um, if you pledge and it’s already going to go through, so you’re going to get it. Uh, but you will go ahead and get the digital version and you could be like me where you got really into vinyl this year, even though almost never listened to any of your vital. [00:05:13] Um, you’ve just spent like hundreds of dollars on Taylor, Swift albums on vinyl, the same album. Uh, but also I actually was buying vinyl releases before she released. Nine different versions of folklore on vinyl. [00:05:30] Brett: [00:05:30] I have a friend who has a band called the sweat boys, or just sweat boys. And it is, um, it’s a synth pop band that kind of like, they have this whole shtick where they have like, uh, guys in. In leotards lifting weights on stage while they perform. And it’s just like high energy synth pop stuff. [00:05:53] And I love him enough and I actually enjoy their shows enough that I bought their last album on [00:06:00] vinyl. And I’ve never actually played the vinyl because I own it all. It’s all an on my iPhone. [00:06:09] Christina: [00:06:09] No, [00:06:09] Brett: [00:06:09] even have one of their CDs. And for me, that’s as retro as vinyl is. [00:06:16] Christina: [00:06:16] Honestly, it’s, it’s harder. Uh, I think sometimes like to define a good CD system like I have, cause I do have like a Blu-ray player that I got, uh, for my, uh, PC and my Mac, um, like an external that I had somebody mod, so that it’ll, it uses a certain version of making B making KB so that you can rip stuff in, uh, ultra, um, Hi-def without, um, dealing with weird DRM stuff. [00:06:43] Um, cause there are certain, it’s a weird thing. Like basically LG makes the only Blu-ray drives that exist right now, at least for, uh, like. Mac and PC, but they have different firmware versions that will let you do certain [00:07:00] things on it. And they like charge extra. If you want to actually be able to rip the UHD copies and then they want you to use certain software. [00:07:08] So if you want to use programs like, uh, make them KV. Or handbrake or things like that to actually be able to extract the whole thing without having deal with weird prietary garbage, then you have to use usually a modified version of the firmware. So I had somebody who flashed it for me and it wasn’t and put it in an external chasses and it was very inexpensive. [00:07:30] So I have that, but like, that’s what I would have to use to listen to a CD at this point. [00:07:37] Brett: [00:07:37] Last my, my, my car before this one had like a six disk changer that I never used. Um, and I think. I think the car that my girlfriend has now does have a CD player. Uh, and we bought that car from my mother and just yesterday for the first time I ever, she [00:08:00] opened up the little tray in the console and there’s all these like gospel CDs in there, singing, gospel songs. [00:08:11] Christina: [00:08:11] Oh, yeah. Oh my God. My dad that’s my dad. My dad has like. Like white lady music taste. And I’ve always made fun of him about this because it’s hilarious to me. Like he loves Elvis Bob’s Elvis and Johnny Mathis and all this shit, but also like he was really into, um, this is just so funny. Cause like, okay, this is why it’s funny. [00:08:35] My dad is like, even now in his seventies, he’s. A big tall guy who, you know, it’s very much appears like a man’s man type of guy. Right? Like he he’s very much, like you can tell that he played football in college and that he like is a, a sportsman. And like, it’s just, you know, like that’s, that’s the thing you don’t expect him to be really, really [00:09:00] into, um, uh, Vonda Shepard who did the music and ally McBeal to the point that he had both. [00:09:08] Both of her albums and used to have them in the car. And I used to have to listen to that shit on my way to eight. Like when he would drive me to school in high school, [00:09:16] Brett: [00:09:16] Yeah, parents are funny. [00:09:18] Christina: [00:09:18] Yeah. And I was like, what? It also turned out. Cause I always thought it was my mom. It was not. Um, when I was growing up, I was always fascinated with my parents’ eight track collection because I was like, what is this shit? [00:09:30] And, and, and some of them, um, you know, I’d already degraded and didn’t work, but some of them were in good shape, but they also had their record collection. And it was very weird to me because they had this Olivia Newton, John album on eight track and on vinyl. Same album. And I’m like, why is now? Now? You know, it makes sense because we have become accustomed to the industry making us double-dip right. [00:09:56] Like our generation, especially mine. Like I, [00:10:00] there are certain things that I’ve bought. Multiple times because I’ve had to, and with streaming, obviously that makes it different. But so at this point you will buy the vinyl copy to support the artist, right? Like as, as this pretty eight machine thing, right. [00:10:15] Like I am, uh, I could have just bought the band camp thing, but I just also backed it. Cause I want the vinyl because you want to support the creator because it it’s like a cool kind of Chatzky. But like in my, like in the seventies, He had both copies and I’m like why? And I always assumed as my mom and no, it was my dad. [00:10:34] My dad was just really into Olivia Newton, John. [00:10:37] Brett: [00:10:37] so weird. [00:10:39] Christina: [00:10:39] I know, [00:10:40] Brett: [00:10:40] Did you see the song or the song titles? I’m pretty at machine. [00:10:45] Christina: [00:10:45] uh, I’m looking at it now. I just, I just bought it. So, [00:10:49] Brett: [00:10:49] Headlight IO a terrible lie. Downloading it. [00:10:56] Christina: [00:10:56] Oh my God, this is so good. And, [00:11:00] uh, and that’s awesome. So, so he’s now, yeah. He’s way, way past his funding goal for the original thing. And I don’t know how much he needs to get a ticket into other stores or stuff, but, um, [00:11:12] Brett: [00:11:12] Yeah. He sent out an email yesterday. I can’t remember what all it said. No, but he was talking about like the, the, how hard it is to get things into record stores these days. [00:11:23] Christina: [00:11:23] yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, which. Pandemic aside, like they’re actually doing really well. Um, at least like the indie places, I mean, comparatively, right? Like it’s interesting how much like vinyl, there’s a boom, but there’s also like an issue of, I would think the bigger issue less would be about distribution and would more be like, do you have enough physical copies that you can get to to the stores because what’s happened at least based on what I’ve read. [00:11:52] And I don’t have a link for this. Uh, I think. There’s been some stuff in the New York times and some other places, but what’s happened. And I, I bet, I [00:12:00] bet that we have some listeners out there who know, who know more is that there are only a few places that do a good quality job of being able to make the vinyl. [00:12:09] And the demand has gone up so much that it’s difficult to do, you know, uh, to get like press time, frankly. Um, like that’s one of the reasons, at least, I mean, this is all I can assume is that, so the Taylor Swift stuff, she has delay, like it took me, I don’t know. I think I got like, so folklore came out in the end of July and it was the, it was December before I got all the vinyl. [00:12:42] Um, Copies. So like she had like eight, I think on her website or something or seven or whatever, then target had a special edition and the target one got there pretty quick, because for it to be in target, it had to be. You know, already mass produced, but, um, all the different colors because of the different [00:13:00] color variants she chose to use, they clearly had not produced any of them. [00:13:05] And, and I don’t even know if they’d produce samples to be totally honest. I think this was one of those things where like, they put it up on the Shopify when she like. Surprise drop the album. And then she was like, Republic slash universal. You figure this out now. And they were like, uh, okay. Because it took months and, and, um, some of the, actually most of the, the color variants were only available for like a very limited time, um, for folklore or not folklore forevermore, she. [00:13:34] Only had I think one color of the vinyl. And that was my first instinct. I was like, Oh, you, you would clearly bitten off more. You could more than you could chew and fucked up with folklore because you realized in like the ensuing months, we can’t make this much vinyl, especially with these different colors. [00:13:51] Uh, and then for the release of fearless, that’s coming up. That is an interesting one. I, the, my big. Theory. And the reason why it won’t be [00:14:00] released until April is because of the vinyl lead time, because she’s wanting to charge for this like gold vital copy, and they don’t have that in mass. And the way that the billboard rules work now, uh, you have, you can’t like do pre-orders the way that they used to. [00:14:16] So it’s one of those things where like, they have to actually have like a, um, it has to physically get to you within a certain date. So now it’s a pre-order rather than a. You buy it in December and you still don’t have your vinyl copy of evermore because it literally hasn’t been pressed yet. And it could be the summer before you cut it. [00:14:37] So, um, that she obviously is going to deal with, with things on a larger level, because one of the biggest artists in the world, but if. They can’t find the, the vinyl, like the machine time for her. Then I have to imagine if you, you need to have a certain word borders to be able to get a pressing to that you could even distribute one or two copies [00:15:00] to a lot of different local music stores. [00:15:02] At least that’s my guess. [00:15:04] Brett: [00:15:04] Admit when I put pretty eight machine on the list, I did not think it was going to turn into a Taylor Swift conversation, but we managed it. [00:15:13] Christina: [00:15:13] We did well. I mean, I can, I can turn anything into Taylor Swift yet. Um, but no, this is exciting. [00:15:20] Brett: [00:15:20] to tell you, so I had never listened to your mood mix before. Cause I didn’t, it, it just, I don’t, I don’t have time [00:15:29] Christina: [00:15:29] don’t care? [00:15:30] Brett: [00:15:30] well, it’s not, I care about you. [00:15:33] Christina: [00:15:33] No, I understand. [00:15:34] Brett: [00:15:34] I don’t care that much about Taylor Swift, [00:15:36] Christina: [00:15:36] No, I understand. [00:15:37] Brett: [00:15:37] uh, uh, yesterday morning, uh, I mentioned that I had never listened to it and I was like, well, we could listen to it now before you record. [00:15:46] And, uh, [00:15:48] Christina: [00:15:48] It’s so sad. [00:15:48] Brett: [00:15:48] so we put it on and it was funny because at first the first song was exile and Al said, damn it. Maybe I do like Taylor Swift. [00:16:00] [00:16:00] Christina: [00:16:00] Yes. Yes. [00:16:02] Brett: [00:16:02] then the next one came on and her response was no, this reminds me a lot of, uh, uh, tampon commercial. [00:16:10] Christina: [00:16:10] Yes. [00:16:11] Brett: [00:16:11] And, uh, ultimately we both got really depressed by it and, [00:16:17] Christina: [00:16:17] Sorry about that. [00:16:18] Brett: [00:16:18] yeah, no, I w I’m not going to hold you personally responsible. [00:16:22] Uh, it turned out not to be great morning music. [00:16:27] Christina: [00:16:27] No, no, I would have told you that. Cause I it’s it’s it’s a, it’s a folklore mood mix. Right? So, so the whole thing was to fit the whole. So how that came up with somebody on Twitter was like, I like this. What are some other. You know, songs like this, and originally he wanted Taylor step. And so it was very tailor heavy, but I went ahead and I was like adding in some other artists in there too, which is why there’s some Smith and there’s, uh, you know, some, uh, death cabin and there’s, um, you know, uh, like other, I think I even did put, I actually did put a Ryan Adams [00:17:00] cover on there even though it’s terrible as well. [00:17:02] I’m sorry. His cover of this love is really, really good, uh, and, and fit like the motif perfectly. So, um, Yeah. So yeah, not, not good morning mix also not great if you’re going through a depressive phase. Sorry about that. But very much on brand. [00:17:18] Brett: [00:17:18] it’s okay. We survived. We survived. It’s all good. [00:17:23] Christina: [00:17:23] I just, I just love that she like goes from like maybe I do. And then she’s like, no, this is like a tampon commercial. Here’s what I would say to elbow L um, listen to folklore and evermore because a lot of that is way more like, um, uh, exile than it is. Any of her others, like that’s more the vibe than any of her other like pop stuff. [00:17:45] So if you’d like that there, I think especially evermore really linked into that. And so you you’d probably really like that album, so [00:17:56] Brett: [00:17:56] Speaking of listening to stuff. [00:17:59] Christina: [00:17:59] great segue. [00:18:00] [00:17:59] Brett: [00:17:59] I know audible is the leading provider of spoken word entertainment and audio books ranging from bestsellers in new releases to celebrity, memoirs, languages, motivation, and more like original entertainment. And now podcasts. I, I have a podcast. [00:18:15] Christina: [00:18:15] I do too. I have a couple podcasts. Weren’t we on audible? I wanted that Ottawa. [00:18:20] Brett: [00:18:20] we not? I don’t [00:18:21] Christina: [00:18:21] We’re not, [00:18:21] Brett: [00:18:21] I don’t know how to get on audible. [00:18:23] Christina: [00:18:23] no, we gotta get, we gotta be like, More famous and, and get some of that audible Wondery money. [00:18:31] Brett: [00:18:31] But we, we do, we do both listen to audible [00:18:35] Christina: [00:18:35] We love audible. This is why I’m like, Hey, call us. But yeah. [00:18:40] Brett: [00:18:40] But, uh, they have a new plan called the audible plus and with an audible plus membership, you get full access to the plus catalog, which is filled with thousands of titles across different formats from audio books to popular and exclusive podcasts to unique audible originals, like the words plus music series a you can listen [00:19:00] offline anytime, anywhere. [00:19:02] And you can even squeeze in a workout or a guided meditation without having to go to a gym or a class. Uh, I just started, uh, like I was talking last time we did this read, actually I was talking about how I use my audible subscription to listen to a whole bunch of black female scifi and African futurism authors. [00:19:24] And I just started another book by Nettie Accora for, um, and it’s really good. Uh, uh Kado which. Um, it’s young adult fiction, but I’m young at heart and I [00:19:38] Christina: [00:19:38] Well, yeah, well, and like, if we’re being totally honest in the fiction genre, like why a has kind of eaten the world and a lot of it is really good. [00:19:47] Brett: [00:19:47] Yeah. It, yeah. I, uh, I’m often surprised to realize that the book I just finished was classified as Y um, I, I, I don’t know if that says more about why a [00:20:00] or if it says more about me, but [00:20:02] Christina: [00:20:02] So it’s more about why, but yeah. [00:20:03] Brett: [00:20:03] You start anything good lately? [00:20:06] Christina: [00:20:06] Yeah. So I just, uh, was listening to actually, this is fairly recent, uh, TV’s new golden age, which is, um, basically like. All about a TV, like from like what’s considered like the second golden age period of like 1999 through the last, like two decades. And so, um, this is from, uh, uh, film and television professor Eric or Williams, um, who basically is, is talking about what’s, what’s kind of been referred to as like the third golden age of television. [00:20:37] And, uh, so that’s extremely my, my, my fish. So yeah. [00:20:42] Brett: [00:20:42] I just finished, um, uh, Keegan, Michael Keegan. What’s his name? Ki Keegan. Michael Key. Cause it’s key and Peele. [00:20:53] Christina: [00:20:53] Right, right, right, right. [00:20:54] Brett: [00:20:54] Um, Keegan, Michael Key of key and Peele did a 10 part [00:21:00] audible series on the history of sketch comedy. That it was just him. Kind of discussing the long history of sketch comedy. Jading back to like the Greeks and Romans [00:21:12] Christina: [00:21:12] Ooh. [00:21:13] Brett: [00:21:13] it was, it was fascinating and also hilarious. [00:21:16] And I would recommend it anyone it’s included with your audible plus subscription. [00:21:22] Christina: [00:21:22] Oh, I’m going to listen to that. That’s great. Um, that’s awesome. I was listening to one. What would I listen to? So remember tiger King. When we were all obsessed with that. [00:21:30] Brett: [00:21:30] I, I recognize that other people were obsessed with it. Yes. [00:21:34] Christina: [00:21:34] Okay. So there was like, uh, an interesting kind of like accompany and like, it wasn’t, it’s not officially related, but it’s part of the story, but there’s like a, um, again, I think it’s like a 10 episode kind of deep dive. Um, Audible original series. Like, again, it’s one of those things that’s part of your audible plus subscription, where you can get way more detail and your interviews and like deep reporting, like actual reporting than what was in the [00:22:00] Netflix series, um, about that whole case. [00:22:02] And it was characters. So people are interested in that if you want to relive the beginning stages of this pandemic, uh, and, and like, look back fondly when we were all like obsessed with that stuff. That’s that’s another one. I’ll I’ll I’ll give a shout out to. [00:22:16] Brett: [00:22:16] So with very little effort, you could easily get through any of these, a special audio plus original series in 30 days. And. If you go to audible.com/overtired or text over-tired to five zero zero five zero zero. You can get a 30 day free trial with everything you want to listen to. All in one app audible plus can truly become your playlist for life. [00:22:42] So visit audible.com/overtired or text tired to five zero zero five zero zero. Uh, we’re we’re both obviously big fans of audible and really happy to have them as a sponsor. if they would just pick up our podcasts, we w we, [00:23:00] uh, yeah. [00:23:02] Christina: [00:23:02] We could do an original podcast for them, then that’s really what I’m kind of [00:23:05] Brett: [00:23:05] Uh, what would it be? A Taylor Swift podcast? I’m not sure I could get down with that. [00:23:10] Christina: [00:23:10] I don’t know. We could come up with something. [00:23:12] Brett: [00:23:12] We should do a history of, Oh man. We could do a history of computing podcasts. Where we [00:23:20] Christina: [00:23:20] that’s a good idea. [00:23:21] Brett: [00:23:21] talk about our teen years [00:23:24] Christina: [00:23:24] Right? [00:23:26] Brett: [00:23:26] Yeah, I dunno. We could pull it off. You’re interesting enough. [00:23:30] Anyway, [00:23:32] Christina: [00:23:32] So are you dude actually? [00:23:35] Brett: [00:23:35] so Apple has a leaked, not leaked, but announced their next round of emoji updates. Have you seen these. [00:23:47] Christina: [00:23:47] I have, um, I’m not on like, whatever the beta is that you need to, to run it because I don’t have time to run betas right now on my phone, but I had seen it. It looked pretty good, [00:23:59] Brett: [00:23:59] their [00:24:00] bearded ladies. [00:24:01] Christina: [00:24:01] which is cool. [00:24:02] Brett: [00:24:02] It is, uh, and it’s actually like, it’s interesting. The facial features, they didn’t just put long hair on the bearded man emoji. It actually has like narrower jaw line. It is very much like feminine features with masculine hair and it comes in the full range of skin tones. [00:24:28] What surprised me? Not that they did it, but that it didn’t exist before is interracial gay couples. I didn’t realize that wasn’t already a thing. [00:24:41] Christina: [00:24:41] Yeah, I’m guessing. And I don’t know, this would be something that Jeremy, uh, Verge of Emojipedia fame. What would know more about since he’s on like the Unicode board and is like Mr. Emoji himself, but what I’m guessing is that they were, for those emoji, they were [00:25:00] defaulting to like the, the yellow color, which is kind of like the neutral, like. [00:25:05] No race and that that’s what they were doing. And now what they’ve done is they’ve gone ahead and they’ve added the fact that you can select skin tones, but they’ve made it so that if you wanted to, you could have multiple, you know, skin tone options. Uh, what I guess, cause I don’t know how the implementation of this would be I’m I don’t know if they’re going to have like the however many combinations you could have. [00:25:29] Um, [00:25:30] Brett: [00:25:30] The infinite number of shades and hues, you could combine. [00:25:34] Christina: [00:25:34] it’s not, it’s not that it’s that they have like five different tones. So I don’t know if it’s one of those things where they have, you know, uh, I guess to be, I guess 10, I can’t do the, I’m not, I can’t do the math in my head right now. It’s too early. Um, [00:25:49] Brett: [00:25:49] We don’t get paid to do math. [00:25:52] Christina: [00:25:52] I mean, not for this, but, you know, so I don’t know if they could do like all those combinations, if they’re going to do that on the picker, or if it’s going to be like a more limited kind of [00:26:00] subset for same-sex couples that does obviously make it a little bit easier in so far as you, you, well, you know, cause it’s male, female, then you do have to have like one of each and then one of each. [00:26:12] So you’re doubling the number. And, and from that, it’s not even that like, okay, it’s hard for them to make the emoji, but I would think it’s like, okay, how do you in a selector make that an easy thing for people to access. Right. So it’s not even a matter of like, yeah. Cause you can like, have somebody commissioned the art, no problem. [00:26:29] But it’s like, how do you make that selection? 100%, which is why I assume that they just had it as, as the yellow color. You know, just, just everybody’s a Simpson and, and that’s what they, they went for. But no, I think it’s cool that they have, you know, taken on the UI, uh, concern to have interracial, um, a gay couple. [00:26:50] Brett: [00:26:50] Yeah. They also remove the blood from the syringe emoji so that it can now represent a vaccine. [00:26:58] Christina: [00:26:58] Okay. [00:27:00] [00:27:00] Brett: [00:27:00] Yeah. Then they changed the headphones to be the white beats headphones. [00:27:05] Christina: [00:27:05] Of course. [00:27:06] Brett: [00:27:06] you know, just branding, [00:27:07] Christina: [00:27:07] Yeah, I was going to say, just like, you know, the watch is the Apple watch and the, you know, the phone is the yeah. Um, [00:27:15] Brett: [00:27:15] Speaking of vaccines though, the Johnson and Johnson one as we speak is nearing FDA approval as a one-shot vaccine. And well, not as effective as the other two. It, it does increase the number of doses that could be available in June by a hundred million. And that’s not a hundred million divided by two. [00:27:38] It like you would have with the other vaccines, that’s a hundred million extra doses. So that’s good news. [00:27:45] Christina: [00:27:45] No. That’s great news. So my parents got their second dose last week, [00:27:50] Brett: [00:27:50] Girlfriend. Just got, I should say L we’ll just call her by name. I’ll just get hers this week too. Her [00:27:56] Christina: [00:27:56] Hell yeah. That’s that’s awesome. [00:27:59] Brett: [00:27:59] The second one is [00:28:00] supposed to cause more, uh, illness. Yeah. Side effects. [00:28:05] Christina: [00:28:05] Yeah, my parents, my parents had like an itchy arm and they were kind of lethargic the second day where they were fine. [00:28:10] Brett: [00:28:10] Yeah. And L did not have, like, I always she’s like super sensitive to that stuff. So I, I was prepared for the second dose or kind of wrecker, but it didn’t, she, she came through it fine. She’s like, you shouldn’t be scared. And I’m like, I wasn’t scared. [00:28:27] Christina: [00:28:27] Yeah, no, it was funny. Cause my parents were kind of the same thing. Like they were like, I was glad they were telling me, you know, how well it went or whatever. Um, but I was not even like, it didn’t even enter my mindset to be like concerned. I was just like, get the shot. Um, you know, like. Get it, but, um, but yeah, that’s what I was hearing. [00:28:48] Like they basically said they both had itchy arms and then the next day they were both a little bit more lethargic than they had been. Like the first dose. They didn’t have anything, this one a little more, but, and they had Madonna, uh, the [00:29:00] Madonna, um, one, but. Mo merger, not yeah, whatever Madrona who’d, who knows. [00:29:06] So, um, I’ve apparently also, as, uh, as I’m saying, this I’ve been told the way that I say Penn is, uh, was how, um, [00:29:15] Brett: [00:29:15] Very Atlanta. [00:29:16] Christina: [00:29:16] a apparently yeah. [00:29:18] Brett: [00:29:18] How do you say M I R R O R. Mirror. Okay. I’ve I’ve realized, uh, thanks to some Facebook posts that in the, uh, in the Northeast, at least, uh, it’s often a single syllable just mirror, mirror. [00:29:33] Christina: [00:29:33] Mirror here. Yeah. I could see that like, like the space shuttle. Um, yeah, I don’t know. It’s weird. So, you know, like, remember how like the, the New York times had that dialect quiz, you probably don’t. Okay. Okay. So this was like, this was a long time ago, but it was a very famous thing where the New York times made this interactive dialect quiz that apparently for many people could precisely like, indicate exactly where [00:30:00] they grew up, like to a T. [00:30:02] And it was one of those things where it’s like 20 questions and you answer how you say certain words and other different colloquialisms or whatever anyway, because how I speak. Is so disconnected from where I grew up. Like, I, I think I’m like the one person who totally like messed up the New York times dialect quiz. [00:30:23] Brett: [00:30:23] Okay. Yeah, no, I don’t. I don’t detect a Southern accent on you. I’m no, uh, I’m no accent expert, which you can find some great YouTube videos on accent experts dissecting various, especially when they do like, uh, uh, actors portrayals and they dissect their, [00:30:43] Christina: [00:30:43] Oh, yeah. I love that. [00:30:45] Brett: [00:30:45] dialogue coaching. But, uh, yeah, that’s fun stuff. [00:30:50] Christina: [00:30:50] No, that stuff is really fun. Um, I’m going to put a link to the dialect quiz in here. [00:30:54] Brett: [00:30:54] Cool. Um, [00:30:57] Christina: [00:30:57] Very cool. [00:30:58] Brett: [00:30:58] so [00:31:00] you mentioned you may have gone down another keyboard, rabbit hole, and I feel like keyboards are almost deserve like a, a segment status on this show. [00:31:09] Christina: [00:31:09] Honestly, honestly, they do, because between like you and like your, your ultimate hacking keyboard, and I told myself, I wasn’t going to get into this hobby, like told myself I wasn’t going to, and now I find myself, I’m still not deciding, like, I, I still. I haven’t pulled the trigger too hard yet. I think, I think I pre-ordered one that’s been on back order, but I don’t actually know. [00:31:32] I know that I hit the buy button, but it hasn’t shown up on my credit card and I didn’t get an email. So it’s one of those things where I’m like, did I buy this or did it not go through? And then I’m like afraid to buy it again because. Then I’m going to be stuck with like, you know, $130 keyboard. The second one that I don’t need to have, and I don’t want to have to deal with the return. [00:31:50] So I’m waiting a couple of days to see if that actually like order went through or not. But in the interim, I like have been going down this rabbit hole where I was [00:32:00] like, okay, I have the key Cron, which is fine, but the, the key caps aren’t the best and maybe one, uh, Alderson switches. And then I’m looking at some options and I’m like, Oh, but I could design these things in these other ways. [00:32:18] So I was like, well, maybe I’ll just get like a drop alts, but then they have like a custom. Um, aluminum like a new aluminum color that you could color way you can get, which I really like, which would look like really good with like, it’s like a light lilac that would look really good with certain key caps. [00:32:36] And so I’m like, okay, well, if I got that, because it’s like $130, I don’t want to have to buy that on top of like the $200 keyboard. That seems dumb. So I’ll just. Kind of build my own from, from drop because they now sell the PCB separately to that still gets very expensive. But then in the interim I’m like, okay, well, do I want to get something else? [00:32:57] Do I want to get like another type? So I spent a lot of [00:33:00] yesterday, very deep in the weeds, reading and watching actually a ton of keyboard review videos on YouTube. And I I’ve like. Resisted going too deeply down that rabbit hole, because I knew that this would be the sort of thing that it’s like shoes or PC parts, which I have now, like conquered that I’m like, this will just be another thing that like the obsessive compulsive side of my personality needs to collect them all. [00:33:30] And then the board needs to spend money to feel things, product personality, like it’s a bad combination. So I’m trying to kind of talk myself out of it, but it is one of those things where I’m like, I could see myself really. [00:33:42] Brett: [00:33:42] Have you [00:33:43] Christina: [00:33:43] I could see myself. I’m trying to talk myself out of building the keyboard, basically. [00:33:46] Brett: [00:33:46] have you seen the keyboard IO keyboards go to go to shop.keyboard.io. And they have a few different models that my friend, Jesse Atkinson swears by. [00:34:00] Um, I think he had the, no, I don’t remember which model he had now, but they have like a tiny one called the Atrius. That is like a S it’s it’s ergonomic, not split. [00:34:12] It’s not two [00:34:13] Christina: [00:34:13] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m looking at this. That’s cool. [00:34:15] Brett: [00:34:15] but they have the model 100 that I think I actually tried backing years ago. Um, But it never happened. Uh, but now it says it’s coming in 2021, just in case you need more options. But I have always been curious about the, the, the drop, the alt, and they have another one. yeah, Alton control. [00:34:40] They don’t have a delete. [00:34:42] Christina: [00:34:42] No, not yet. They did just have an inter that’s like an entry-level one. And then there’s like a new one, which is like a 60%, which I don’t want. Um, I’d really like a 75%, but that other than the key Cron, they’re very limited. They’re very [00:35:00] limited. Like really there’s one from, uh, Keyboard bands that is like a KB 75. [00:35:05] That is impossible to get right now. Like it is literally out of stock and that’s one that you have to build yourself and sold or yourself and whatnot, but they’re very few 75% keywords out there, even though I personally think that’s kind of the perfect size combination, but I like 65, 68 more than I like, um, 60% because I need my, um, navigation keys. [00:35:31] My arrow keys. [00:35:32] Brett: [00:35:32] You say solider? Is that a Southern thing or is that just a mispronunciation? [00:35:39] Christina: [00:35:39] How am I supposed to say soldier solder? Oh yeah. That’s just a mispronunciation. [00:35:45] Brett: [00:35:45] Okay, [00:35:46] Christina: [00:35:46] That’s just how I’ve said it. Like my whole life. So that’s just, yeah, [00:35:50] Brett: [00:35:50] Uh, [00:35:51] Christina: [00:35:51] that’s just a mispronunciation. [00:35:52] Brett: [00:35:52] into one of those with a friend that like I could totally see. It’s like when you’re, when you’re reading, especially when you’re younger and you see [00:36:00] words like rendezvous, like, and they’re not words you, you hear, or if you do hear them, they sound so different than they’re spelled that you don’t necessarily associate them. [00:36:11] I thought it was pronounced Rendez service until I was like 16 years old. And I said it in a sentence and someone looked at me like I was an idiot and I was like, it’s Ron run. Does this, you know, like a place you meet up at a Rendez vis [00:36:32] Christina: [00:36:32] and people like you mean a rendezvous? Yeah, [00:36:35] Brett: [00:36:35] any sense. [00:36:36] Christina: [00:36:36] totally. No. So yeah, no, no solder, which is, cause obviously I know that it’s called soldering gun. Um, but I’ve had sold her because that’s just a mispronunciation because I that’s one of those things that I very clearly. Set in my own head so many times before I ever heard it. [00:36:53] And then actually it’s until you said this, that I like made that connection. I’m like, yep. I’ve been mispronouncing this my entire life. [00:37:00] Cool. [00:37:01] Brett: [00:37:01] funny word. No, I’m not going to do another read yet. We did our last, our last episode, our sponsor reads through like five to 10 minutes long. We really, we really put our heart and soul into our sponsors. [00:37:17] Christina: [00:37:17] If you’d like to sponsor overtired. Email [00:37:21] Brett: [00:37:21] Well, we’ll do, we’ll dedicate 30 out of 60 minutes to talking about your product for the, for the benefit of our listeners, which I’m sorry to our listeners, what no sponsor read should be more than five minutes long. That’s crazy. [00:37:36] Christina: [00:37:36] it’s totally nuts. And we don’t blame you for using the 32nd, like fast forward button on your pod catcher. That’s totally what you did. So it’s fair. [00:37:46] Brett: [00:37:46] What, uh, turns out are I, like I put, uh, in our show notes, there’s a transcript of our, of our conversation. And in one of the newer [00:38:00] podcatchers the, the timestamps that I have in there. And I didn’t do this on purpose, but they’re actually clickable [00:38:06] Christina: [00:38:06] Oh, cool. [00:38:07] Brett: [00:38:07] can jump around the podcast. Because I don’t do chapter markers. [00:38:11] Like someday I aspire to do chapter markers, [00:38:16] Christina: [00:38:16] No. I honestly think timestamps are better because chapter markers it’s such a kludge. [00:38:22] Brett: [00:38:22] we’re so scattered. Like [00:38:24] Christina: [00:38:24] We are [00:38:25] Brett: [00:38:25] anything that fits neatly into chapters. Like just now we went from talking about, uh, soldering to, to. Two podcast chapters with no real segue. It just happens. [00:38:40] Christina: [00:38:40] 100%. And I also think like, frankly, like a chapters are difficult to create and B it doesn’t really fit our show, but see, and this is, I think the most important thing, uh, the way that people consume content. Now, at least the way that I do, like timestamps on YouTube are the currency that I kind of go by. [00:38:59] So [00:39:00] that’s what I would be familiar with and would want from a UI standpoint war than like, or UX standpoint, I guess that’s what I would prefer then to chapter markers, to be totally honest. [00:39:10] Brett: [00:39:10] Yeah, I don’t listen to podcasts. I have nothing to add to that particular conversation. I am really bad about listening to podcasts. [00:39:24] Christina: [00:39:24] Yeah. I mean, I listen to a ton of podcasts and I usually, I never used the chat markers on them if they have them. But, uh, I do appreciate timestamps when that’s there, especially for shows like a accidental tech podcast and stuff like that, like that, that. Similar to us can be long. It can go into lots of topics. [00:39:41] And because I do watch a ton of YouTube videos, I’m very, very happy whenever they have timestamps. And that’s actually why, when I do like my new show that I do, like every two weeks, like my developer new show, like I have my timestamps and I’ve done that for the last couple of years, even before YouTube had like a visual, like indicator kind of thing. [00:40:00] [00:40:00] Um, I always had the timestamps in the, in the comments because I was like, This is useful for people. I appreciate it when I see this on other videos. So [00:40:10] Brett: [00:40:10] You ready for a crazy like paradigm, like shift. Um, why didn’t daft punk just surreptitiously hand their, their helmets to like another duo and just let them carry on the tradition. This could have gone for hundreds of years. [00:40:31] Christina: [00:40:31] I’m really sad about daft punk. Like. I mean, they hadn’t made a new album in a really long time. And I think the last collapse they probably did was with the weekend a few years ago, a Starboy, but I really liked that funk and discovery is one of my favorite albums ever. And I think their use of samples and the way other people sampled them is great. [00:40:53] And I mean, you know, I don’t know. That was a really shitty thing to wake up to on a Monday morning to like add news. Like I [00:41:00] saw it on a group shot. It was in one of my group chats and that’s how I found out. And I was like, Oh fuck [00:41:05] Brett: [00:41:05] Here we thought 2021 was going to be different. [00:41:08] Christina: [00:41:08] totally. And I’m like, dammit, like, Well, it was, it was interesting because yesterday as we were recording this tiger woods was in a car accident and fortunately he survived, but it was one of those things where I don’t even particularly care about tiger woods that much, but I’m like, okay, we can’t have lost Coby. [00:41:25] And then like tiger woods die. And like a car accident. Like that was just one of those things. I was like, no, that can’t happen. So. Um, he survived, but you know, apparently like really fucked up one of his ankles and had some other fractures just went with other legs. So who knows? [00:41:44] Brett: [00:41:44] of life to get them out? [00:41:45] Christina: [00:41:45] Yeah. Which is scary, you know? [00:41:48] Uh, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s. I don’t know, it’s not as bad as it sounds from what I understand how the jaws of life work, but it’s still not something you want. Like, you don’t want to [00:42:00] be like, so caught on a car that like have to use one of those contraptions to, to have access. [00:42:06] Brett: [00:42:06] If I knew more about golf, I could probably make a very distasteful golf joke right now, but I, I don’t. So I won’t. [00:42:13] Christina: [00:42:13] Yeah. I was going to say, I don’t really, I [00:42:15] Brett: [00:42:15] insert, insert distasteful comment from Brett that Christina then has to recover from [00:42:21] Christina: [00:42:21] Huh? Yeah. And insert a tasteful golf joke here. I like that. [00:42:26] Brett: [00:42:26] I’m working on my filter. [00:42:28] Christina: [00:42:28] Okay. Yeah. I appreciate that. So is, is that, uh, okay. So speaking of filters, is that a good segue to talk about the, the, the filter that you get from your shower experience? [00:42:38] Brett: [00:42:38] Yeah. So that’s a, it’s a bit of a walk, but, uh, but yeah, I can, I can roll with that. I can roll with that. So this episode is sponsored by Nebia and they make a shower head that both Christina and I are using and are loving. And I want to tell you right off the top, that if you go to nebia.com/overtired, [00:43:00] uh, the first 100 people to visit that will get 15% off of all Nebia products. [00:43:05] So let’s tell you about that shower though. It’s backed by some of the biggest names in Silicon Valley, including Tim cook. It’s designed by former Tesla, NASA, and Apple engineers who spent years researching and developing a superior shower experience that saves water and is anything but ordinary despite using 45% less water than your standard shower, head. [00:43:29] It’s spree is 81% more powerful than the competition. It’s atomized, droplets, rinse, shampoo, and conditioner out of even the thickest hair. Can you attest to that? Chris? [00:43:40] Christina: [00:43:40] If they care, but I have a lot of hair and I can definitely attest [00:43:43] Brett: [00:43:43] have a lot of hair. [00:43:45] Christina: [00:43:45] a lot of hair. So I can definitely attest to the fact that it definitely does rinse out shampoo and conditioner. [00:43:52] Brett: [00:43:52] It slides up and down. It has 25 inches of up and down motion. So, uh, I don’t know about you, but [00:44:00] my girlfriend who has thick lustrous hair does not like to wash her hair every time she showers. Uh, so, uh, having a shower head that you can pull down below neck level and tilt forward. Kind of perfect, especially for girls. [00:44:15] I don’t have to deal with this problem. [00:44:19] Christina: [00:44:19] It’s really nice because usually like, you don’t have a choice. You’re like, all right, my hair’s going to get wet. I’m going to have to dry it anyway. I might as well shampoo it. It’s not always best for your hair, so yeah, you can lower it. Um, make it, you know, uh, like shoulder level, like you said, and still get clean, but not have to completely dunk your hair. [00:44:37] Brett: [00:44:37] Despite being this high-tech amazing piece of shower artistry. It’s also super easy to install. If you can change a light bulb. You can install the Nebia by Mowen. Ha ha. How did your installation experience go? [00:44:51] Christina: [00:44:51] It went very well. I did need a little bit of help just because I’m short and I needed, you know, to, to get it high enough. But this [00:45:00] was, and I’m genuinely saying this, like I’m not the most handy person. So I was a little bit concerned, but no, this was totally, uh, I think their app, like if you can change a light bulb. [00:45:10] You can do this. I was like, am I going to have to get a bunch of wrenches and torques and other stuff knows it was a really simple installation. [00:45:19] Brett: [00:45:19] the tools you need come right in the box. Yeah. So despite the massive savings on water and for me electrical bills, cause I have a, well, my girlfriend and I are both loving it. I enjoy taking a shower more than I ever have before. It’s a, it’s a great deal. It starts at one 99 and. Overtired listeners can get 15% off the first a hundred people to use the code over-tired at nebia.com will get 15% off of all Nebia products. [00:45:48] You can just go to nebia.com/overtired that’s N E B I a.com/overtired. Check out what they have to offer and be one of the first a hundred people to use the [00:46:00] code overtired. So a huge thanks to Nebia for sponsoring this episode of overtired. [00:46:06] Christina: [00:46:06] Thank you Nebia. [00:46:07] Brett: [00:46:07] Um, so that brings us around to we’re. Wow. We got 50 minutes in already and I thought we weren’t going to have enough to talk about, so the BBC put out an article about email trackers and I already, so they say two thirds of all emails. [00:46:28] Marketing emails sent now contained pixel trackers. And like, I guess this isn’t a surprise to me because I use MailMate on my Mac MailMate by default blocks, all of those and puts a huge red bar at the top of your, uh, your, your, uh, viewer window that says what it blocked. And, and so I have been fully aware. [00:46:56] For a while now of how many emails I get that [00:47:00] contain tracking pixels. And I think like I’ve gotten into, uh, some email marketing myself lately. And like I tell my system to track opens and I’m pretty sure you can only track opens with a tracking pixel. So even I’m guilty of sending these things out to people. [00:47:20] Christina: [00:47:20] Totally. And the thing is, is that I’m actually surprised that it’s only 75%, because I would think that if you’re sending out marketing stuff, that you have some sort of tracking of some sort, cause yeah, open rates are a thing. Uh, I always assume, and, and again, like, I think maybe this is just working in the industries that we’ve worked in and in our cynical nature, but I’m thinking like any link that I click in an email is being tracked like period. [00:47:43] Brett: [00:47:43] for sure. [00:47:44] Christina: [00:47:44] Right. You know what I mean? But I’m also thinking there’s like a track thing, then there’s a tracking pixel. The thing that’s always freaked me out. The service that I have. I’ve disliked, there are services out there which like for personal users will insert. A tracking pixel so that you [00:48:00] can find out if someone, how many times some of those read your email and then not responded and like left, left you on red. [00:48:06] And this is a tactic that I’ve seen journalists use. Where they’re like, we reached out to this person. And even though they access the email this many times, they didn’t respond. I’m like, okay, fuck off. That’s not cool. Like, I’m not a fan of that. Like at all. And people who I like and respect have done that. [00:48:22] And I’m like, ah, that’s not cool. Like I’m not into that game at all. And like, you I’ve used apps long before. Hey, which is a good email service I should say. I should know. Like, I do think that it’s good, but like, There are applications like MailMate and others that have alerted you in a blocked those tracking pixels for long before, you know, uh, like people who are much better at marketing, um, have, have made that kind of intimate cause celeb, um, I didn’t know that MailMate had the big, like red bar thing. [00:48:58] Like it’s one of those things where I [00:49:00] by default usually had images turned off. On mail. And so it was one of those things where if you see an email that doesn’t have any HTML in it, and it is asking you to show, you know, images, you’re like you either have a tracking pixel or your signature is real weird in an either event. [00:49:20] I’m not [00:49:21] Brett: [00:49:21] how email signatures work on plain text emails? [00:49:24] Christina: [00:49:24] right. You know, but it’s one of those things that I was like in neither event, I’m not pressing to show images. I was not so good luck to you, which is honestly, probably why those tracking pixel attempts like the different services that try to like play. Gosh, it like you’ve opened this this many times don’t work on me for an email newsletter or whatever. [00:49:43] It’s different. Um, [00:49:45] Brett: [00:49:45] so I am [00:49:47] Christina: [00:49:47] I’m curious on your take on this. [00:49:48] Brett: [00:49:48] I’m not going to, from the next time I send out an email newsletter, uh, for any of my mailing lists, I will not be using a tracking because I [00:50:00] like, so a while back I realized like I run or was running like Google analytics on all of my websites. And I was kind of addicted to all of the stats, but they didn’t really affect. [00:50:16] Any of the decisions I made, all I really needed to know was how many people were viewing a post so that I could know what to charge advertisers. And I didn’t need to know all of that audience information. Yeah. So I switched to using fathom, which is a completely private, uh, it goes back to like the idea of just a web calendar and really [00:50:43] Christina: [00:50:43] it’s it’s server side, it’s a server side one. Um, [00:50:46] Brett: [00:50:46] doesn’t track any personal. And I made that change to all of my websites and I made it to like everything I had on my website that was gathering any kind of personal data I got rid of. So like visiting [00:51:00] my websites is a completely secure, uh, completely private situation. And, uh, it kind of, it offends me that I’ve been kind of breaking that rule with, like, I just started doing email marketing and I like, I didn’t even realize what all I was sending to people. [00:51:18] So that’s going to stop because like, while I find those, uh, I found those stats. Interesting. I like to see, like, this is my percentage open rate and everything. It’s not going to change. Like what I write next time. I’m not running AB testing and like figuring out the perfect headline for my emails. [00:51:36] That’s not my game. So I’m just [00:51:39] Christina: [00:51:39] so you’re not going to do [00:51:39] Brett: [00:51:39] collect it anymore. Okay. [00:51:41] Christina: [00:51:41] No, which I think is fair. I will say I’m, I’m a weird person in that. It’s not that I love being tracked. And I certainly think that some of the stuff is a lot more serious than others. For an email newsletter. If I’ve chosen to subscribe to it, I don’t care as much. [00:51:55] Like I’m not as offended by it. If that makes any sense. If somebody, if [00:52:00] somebody has a tracking pixel and they want to know their open rate, like I see the value in that. Um, and ideally how I would actually really like it to be used. And most places won’t do this, but I would really like people to see if you get an email X number of times for X period of time, and you’re not opening it. [00:52:17] I would honestly like that to be a signal to the, you know, whoever is sending the emails out, it’d be like, send a thing and say, do you want to subscribe to this? And if you don’t interact, like remove you from the mailing list, like. [00:52:29] Brett: [00:52:29] the software that I’m using, um, what’s it called? Cindy, uh, Cindy, which by the way is so good. Uh, it’s like it’s a PHP system that you run on your own server and it costs like 70 bucks to install it. And then from that point on, you can send 10,000 emails at a time for a buck. [00:52:53] Christina: [00:52:53] Right. Cause it’s it’s it’s uh, because it uses, um, Amazons, um, uh, yeah, SES. Yep. [00:53:00] [00:52:59] Brett: [00:52:59] you were to do the same amount of emails through like MailChimp, you would be paying hundreds of dollars for the same. [00:53:08] Same setup. And so they do offer a house cleaning option where you can go through and people, if you have people on your list that haven’t opened the last seven emails, you can segment those and send just an email to those people to do exactly what you’re talking about and say, Hey, uh, here’s your chance to unsubscribe. [00:53:26] If you want to get off the list, um, at a, at a buck per 10,000, I mean, I can. I can afford to have people not open the email, but, uh, it, it is nice to do a little house cleaning once in a while. And maybe people who have, uh, banished, maybe people who use a great service, like, um, SaneBox should sponsor us. [00:53:49] I would talk about SaneBox all day, but, um, we’re such whores. I’m a whore. Um, [00:53:56] Christina: [00:53:56] Well, you’re a whore. I was going to say, well, I mean, I’m, I’m horror. Jason’s [00:54:00] actually actually true story. I came up with this one new year’s day after real real horror moment. Uh, I, uh, I came up with the saying you can’t spell horror without Christina Easton, Warren, when I was like 21 and, uh, accurate. Um, so yeah. [00:54:19] Yeah. You know, uh, we don’t, we don’t slut shame here. You mentioned fathom analytics. I I’ve looked at them. It doesn’t do what I needed to do, but I found plausible analytics, which is another one of, kind of the privacy focused analytic things. I like it for a couple of reasons. One, they have a hosted service, but they also have a cell post option. [00:54:38] So if you want to have like a Docker container or whatever, and you want to run it the same place that you’re running, Cindy, you can do that. The reason I like it is that like fathom it doesn’t gather a lot of the, you know, the stuff that you want from, from Google analytics. But there are a couple of things that I do need. [00:54:55] I’m an analytics program for some of the stuff that I do. I don’t need to know anything about who’s clicking on stuff [00:55:00] at all. And I don’t want to know that, but I do need to know like how many people clicked on a link, um, like, like a link that’s going someplace else. Like that is actually usable, useful information to me. [00:55:09] Like how many, like, you know, links are being clicked and I don’t. I don’t have any qualm about that at all. And like mint used to do that. Like they used to have like a, you know, outbox thing and, and you can do that with Google analytics and you can do that with, um, uh, what is it, uh, um, uh, MIMO, what is it called? [00:55:28] Um, Ms. Homo Miitomo it used to be, um, uh, started with a P, but I, but I can’t think of the name of it, Matilda, which is like the open source, Google analytics, but plausible. They actually reason I like them. They added it as a feature. Like they, they made it a feature because I did a PR request. Um, on GitHub, uh, for that, so that you can add like UTM links or whatever, you can create like campaign type of things. [00:55:53] So like, like links, you know, tra like link, link clicks. Again, it’s not tying back to any user information, but just so you [00:56:00] can say this many people clicked this outbound link. Um, and, uh, so that is like one of those features that for me, um, for some of the few sites that I had set up for stuff like is an actual requirement. [00:56:12] So, um, fathom is great, but, uh, but I wouldn’t give a shout out to plausible. [00:56:20] Brett: [00:56:20] That was a whole bunch of shout outs. We just did at the end of our Taylor Swift episode. We, we, we, we kept this show too. If we finish in the next two minutes, we’ll, we’ll be under our, uh, our, uh, sensibly hour long show limit. We haven’t hit that for a while. We’ve been, we’ve been like an hour, 15 minutes show for awhile now. [00:56:46] And apparently I put out one episode that came up as saying it was 16 minutes long when it was actually an hour and 16 minutes long. And I don’t know how I did that, but thanks to everyone who, uh, who gave it a shot anyway. [00:57:00] And didn’t assume it was like just a sponsored. [00:57:03] Christina: [00:57:03] Right. It wasn’t just us talking about our illustrious sponsors. If, if those are things we will like clearly, um, denote that, um, a cause I believe the FCC requires us to and be because we’re not assholes. [00:57:16] Brett: [00:57:16] It will be in the show title. If the show is nothing but sponsor reads, it will be titled sponsor read show. [00:57:26] Christina: [00:57:26] Yeah, [00:57:27] Brett: [00:57:27] Yeah. What was our last title? I think I called it a, I swear, we’re still a tech show. We do our best tech is not as thrilling as one might think. There’s a reason I don’t listen to tech podcasts. There’s just not enough. Taylor Swift in your average tech pod. Yes, [00:57:47] Christina: [00:57:47] This is exactly it. There’s not enough. Taylor Swift. There’s not enough. Um, like chiptune nine inch nails, although see again, tech adjacent gypsy, you know, so we’ve always been a culture [00:58:00] show for nerds. [00:58:01] Brett: [00:58:01] Yeah, that’s fair. That’s fair. Have you ever read saga? Do you get into graphic novels and comics? [00:58:07] Christina: [00:58:07] Uh, I do sometimes, but no, I’ve never read saga. [00:58:10] Brett: [00:58:10] I, uh, I just, I was just turned on to saga by a local bookseller. Uh, the guy who owns, uh, one of the local used bookstores. Posted a tee, a shirt that had this whole list of names. I didn’t recognize. So I Googled the whole list of names and discovered this comic called saga that now I have to check out. So I will update you after a trip to the local comic shop. [00:58:34] And I’ll tell you how that goes. [00:58:36] Christina: [00:58:36] Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Uh, what’s it about? Cause I’m always, those [00:58:41] Brett: [00:58:41] I knew. [00:58:42] Christina: [00:58:42] Okay. Well, so once you find out, let me know, and then I’ll know if I need to like look into this. [00:58:48] Brett: [00:58:48] it’s it’s to the, I trust this guy’s taste so much, that justify fact that he would buy a t-shirt for this series makes me want to [00:59:00] read it with, with like sight unseen. I have no idea what I’m getting into, but I trust him. [00:59:06] Christina: [00:59:06] I like it. [00:59:07] Brett: [00:59:07] Darryl. Darryl is a good guy. [00:59:10] Christina: [00:59:10] Shout out to Daryl. [00:59:11] Brett: [00:59:11] Right on. I know he doesn’t listen to this show. [00:59:14] Christina: [00:59:14] Of course he doesn’t. But shout out to Daryl anyway. [00:59:16] Brett: [00:59:16] I’ll make him, I’ll be like, Hey, you want to hear your, you want to hear yourself? Get mentioned on a D list podcast. I’ve got just the show for you [00:59:27] Christina: [00:59:27] We’re not delist where we’re ILA at best, but we’re, we’re getting there. Yeah, [00:59:30] Brett: [00:59:30] have some, have some self-esteem [00:59:34] Christina: [00:59:34] I do have, [00:59:35] Brett: [00:59:35] you gotta promote yourself as the podcast. You wish you were. Like dressing for the job you want. If we, if we, if we present ourselves as D-list, that’s how you get to be, do you, [00:59:50] Christina: [00:59:50] Okay. All right. All right. Fair enough. Honestly, we should probably like that should be the episode title, your favorite, your favorite dealers podcast. [01:00:00] [01:00:00] Brett: [01:00:00] there you go. All right. Well, Christina, great chat. [01:00:04] Christina: [01:00:04] Great chatting with you bread. And, um, I hope you feel better and that your depressive episode Inns more quickly than, you know, [01:00:12] Brett: [01:00:12] episode took. [01:00:13] Christina: [01:00:13] That you didn’t know you were having. Yeah, exactly. [01:00:15] Brett: [01:00:15] Yeah. Oh, I decided if we ever make t-shirts, uh, they should say get some sleep, Christina. [01:00:23] Christina: [01:00:23] Yes, that’s perfect. I would wear that. [01:00:28] Brett: [01:00:28] like the t-shirt says get some sleep, Christina. [01:00:31] Christina: [01:00:31] Get some sleep read.

Optical health is important. So is owning your music, at least if it’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Eventually we get around to talking tech, and not just because we were paid to. Sponsors Nebia by Moen. The Nebia by Moen Spa Shower uses 45% less water while providing a serious upgrade to your shower time. The first 100 people to use code overtired at Nebia.com will get 15% off all Nebia products. Just head to Nebia.com/. Kitty Poo Club. Love your cat (or kitten) but hate cleaning litters? Kitty Poo Club delivers a fresh, recyclable litter box to your door every month. Right now, Kitty Poo Club is offering you 20% off your first order when you set up auto-ship by going to KittyPooClub.com and entering promo code overtired. TextExpander. The tool neither Christina nor Brett would want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com/podcast. Show Links Why Taylor Swift is rerecording her songs Ryan Adams Accused of Sexual Misconduct, Emotional Abuse by Seven Women The mysterious death of Mr Misery Tori Amos Fiona Apple Alanis Morissette Boris The Sprinkler – Drugs & Masturbation Quincy Punx – Eat A Bowl Of Fuck A*Teens – Dancing Queen GQ picked good Mac apps Brett’s BPD Playlist Christina’s Folklore Mood Mix Apple Music version Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] Hey, Christina, do you want to do the intro this week? [00:00:03] Christina: [00:00:03] I do. Okay. You’re listening to overtired with, with me, Christina Warren and him Brett Terpstra. Hey, Brett, how are you? [00:00:11] Brett: [00:00:11] I’m good. Christina Warren ha ha. I think you get to start with the health corner this week. How, how you doing [00:00:19] Christina: [00:00:19] Okay, so I’m fine. I can’t iterate that enough. I, I have to be very clear on this because if my mom, for some reason, listens to this podcast, mom do not listen to this podcast. This is not the podcast that you need to [00:00:32] Brett: [00:00:32] Stop right now. [00:00:34] Christina: [00:00:34] Right. But, but also just in general, like, I love you mom, but like, this is not the podcast for you, but in case my mom or someone listens to this podcast, I have to be very clear. [00:00:43] I’m fine. However, I had a little bit of a weird weekend. it is okay. Um, As, as it is, most of the country, and you’re going to laugh at this right now because you’re in [00:01:00] Minnesota where, you know, it, it gets cold and snows and like that’s a normal thing and people know how to deal with it. Uh, in parts of the country, like Texas, where I’m not. [00:01:11] And, uh, the Pacific Northwest where I am living. It’s pretty rare that we get what we would call, like, I guess, major kind of winter storm alerts or whatever. And, um, for the last three years, I guess this would be the third year. There have been some, you know, snow or ice things that have happened in Seattle. [00:01:32] I’ve managed to avoid them because I’ve been in an Australia when it’s happened. But this year I was not in Australia because of the pandemic. So, um, it snowed in Seattle over the weekend and it snowed pretty significantly for us. Like we got, you know, I think it peaks, you know, like, Like six or seven inches, eight or nine inches in some places which, um, for Seattle is, is quite a bit right? [00:01:56] Like this isn’t going to be, you know, like I know that like people in New [00:02:00] York and, and, you know, people like you are like ha seven inches. What, like, that’s cute. But for this part of the country, that’s actually pretty significant. And the infrastructure is not designed to deal with that. They did have plows out in a lot more areas than I was expecting, and they did have more places that were shoveled and were dealt with better than I was expecting, but it was one of those things where I woke up Saturday morning and, you know, I see. [00:02:30] Like white all over, like the outside. And, you know, the, the building is like sending in, you know, memos that they’re not going to be in that day because they, they kind of can’t get in and places are closed. No one’s delivering food at all. And then it polices were, um, like nobody really wasn’t on Saturday. [00:02:48] And then it pleases warlike on, on Sunday and, and Monday, it was like much more limited hours and whatnot. Well, I woke up on Saturday morning and I had a bit of a predicament. [00:03:00] Because I wear contact lenses and I was positive. Like it was positive that I still had some extra pairs of contact lenses. And I woke up and, and one of my contact lenses, I sleep in mind. [00:03:14] You’re not supposed to, but you can. It’s, it’s fine. Whatever. But like, I, I tend to sleep in mine and I woke up and one had fallen out. And, um, the other was kind of at that point where I was just like, all right, I’ll just, I’ll just take it out and put it in a new pair. And that was when I made the realization that I don’t have any contact lenses, which is a problem. So I’m like, shit, what am I going to do? I’m like blind. And I’m like, okay, don’t panic. You’ve got to have another pair that exists somewhere. I do not. So now I really am panicking because. I don’t have a pair of glasses, um, that I have access to. If I do have them, I’m not even sure where they are, but the prescription [00:04:00] is completely so outdated that they would be almost useless. [00:04:03] I have no contact lenses. I’m like, I can’t see, this is an actual problem. So I start to try to make an appointment someplace, um, on my phone. And then I realized. You’re not gonna be able to get anywhere because everybody is closed and places aren’t gonna be open. What are you going to do? So I did manage to find a pair that were expired and were an older prescription that I put in. [00:04:29] That were fine for like, you know, temporary. And then I was able to get an appointment at Costco for Monday because, um, my, um, normal, um, Oh, I should back up and say this too. I go to the eye doctor every year, but my optometrist, my ophthalmologist is in Atlanta. And the last time I saw him was on the 26th of December, 2019. [00:04:51] Obviously didn’t see him in 2020. Um, he writes me a prescription every year. The expression, uh, the prescription has expired. So I can’t [00:05:00] even like order for rush delivery, you know, like a pair, like I’m like, okay, I had to actually go get an appointment somewhere to get an eye exam. The doctor’s office at work didn’t have any appointments until March. [00:05:11] And so I was like, fine. I’ll I’ll go to Costco, uh, and, and have them do it because they have an optometry clinic. I’ll go there. Fine. So I make an appointment for Monday, go in Monday. I have my eye appointment. Um, I opt not to be dilated, but to pay $30 and have this weird, like, uh, I scan thing, which is not supposed to be a replacement for dilation, but is in effect used for it in most cases. [00:05:40] And it can take like a 3d picture of all the aspects of your eye. And it’s, it’s interesting. I was like, fine. I’ll do that. And so I go in and I have my exam and she writes me the script and she’s in the middle of telling me how great my eyes look. And she’s looking at the scan that she took telling me how great my eyes look. [00:05:58] And then she [00:06:00] stops and she, the, her whole demeanor changes, she’s trying, she’s very clearly trying not to freak me out, but I can tell she’s kinda freaked out and she’s like, okay, so there’s this spot on your eye here and this a tear in your retina. And I’m like, okay. And she’s like, yeah, she’s like, this is not good. [00:06:23] She’s like, you need to get this repaired. Like now. And she’s like in, at this point, it’s almost four o’clock in the afternoon and, and I’m, you know, part of me is thinking I’m like, okay, well I can like go, you know, tomorrow or whatever. She’s like, no, you need to, you need to go. Like now I’m going to make some calls and find a specialist. [00:06:41] You can see you now. So. I get my prescription for my glasses and contacts. Fortunately, although I didn’t even have a chance to like, look at anything. I’d been all excited about being at Costco because I wanted to get a hot dog. And, um, I was like, very excited about this. That’s all blown out the window and she’s like, okay, there’s [00:07:00] the retinal specialists like this there’s this ophthalmologist in Renton, which is, you know, like a good, like 40 minutes away, but whatever, she’s like, you need to go there now and they can see you. [00:07:11] So. I get an Uber. I go to rent in, I check in to see this place. They see me right away. I see the dog that I have more scans. I am dilated this time. I have like other things done again. And then they look at it and they’re like, yep, you have a tear in your retina. And don’t worry, it’s not super serious. [00:07:31] But if this isn’t taken care of, um, the, the concern is that they need this collegiate to a T to a detached retina and that could lead to blindness. And do you have any history of family history of this stuff? And I’m like, yeah, my dad actually is now basically blind in one eye because he had something like, he kind of had like a, uh, equivalent, like a stroke in his eye or something, but he had some sort of, you know, the attachment or whatever, um, fairly recently, and it’s been [00:08:00] pretty scary. [00:08:00] And so they’re like, yeah, well we, we need to take care of this. And, and, um, so we’re going to put lasers in your eyes and we’re going to take care of this today. I’m like, okay, this is not what I was expecting. And so then, uh, they numbed my eyeball and put lasers in my eye and repaired the tear and repair like another thing. [00:08:20] And then I’m going to come back and have like a spot in my left eye. This was my right eye and have a spot on my, my left eye watched to see, um, what’s happening, um, scary, but like, not that big of a deal. Well, then I wake up yesterday. Tuesday. And I’m seeing some floaters, which I hadn’t had before. I, I should also say this. [00:08:42] I was completely asymptomatic. I had no symptoms at all. No, like flashes of light, no flavor, floaters that I was seeing, like there was nothing that was exhibiting itself to me that I would have known that I had a tear in my retina. And, um, so in retrospect, [00:09:00] I’m super glad that I ran out of contact lenses and had to make an, a, an emergency appointment because. [00:09:05] Real talk. I probably would’ve waited until it would be safe for me to travel again, to go to my ophthalmologist in Atlanta, because I’ve been seeing him since I was a kid. Uh, he did eye surgery that I had, um, uh, uh, you know, over a little over a decade ago. [00:09:25] Brett: [00:09:25] you are weirdly loyal to your healthcare providers. [00:09:28] Christina: [00:09:28] I am, I [00:09:29] Brett: [00:09:29] You’ll travel across the country for them. [00:09:32] Christina: [00:09:32] I totally will. It’s it’s a weird thing. I’m both weirdly loyal. And also it’s like one of those, like, I just don’t want to find new people things, [00:09:39] Brett: [00:09:39] Weirdly loyal and lazy. [00:09:41] Christina: [00:09:41] yeah. So I was going to say it’s both, but, but for things like your eyes, like if you have somebody who’s literally like, been like treating you since you were a kid [00:09:48] Brett: [00:09:48] Oh, yeah, I have a guy. I know how [00:09:49] Christina: [00:09:49] yeah. [00:09:50] And like, if I’m going to see my parents anyway, like I S, like I said, I see him every year. This isn’t one of those things where I put this off. Like I see him every year. Um, and [00:10:00] so, you know, like, like, like, like grant I think was trying to kind of understand. I was like, no, I saw him like 13 months ago. [00:10:07] Like, this is not one of those things where like this, you know, so, so this is something that’s developed recently, right? Because he clearly didn’t see any signs of it, even when he was looking at me last. Um, so, um, I woke up yesterday morning and I was starting to see some floaters and also my eye was hurting. And so I called and they said, this is normal, but you need to like be off of screens for the day. I’m like, fuck, be off of screens for the day. Like that. That is my nightmare. [00:10:40]Brett: [00:10:40] now it’s affecting my life. [00:10:43] Christina: [00:10:43] Right, right. Well, and at this point too, like, cause he told me that I could wear contacts and whatnot, but I hadn’t put them in cause my eye hurt. And I’m like, like the laser is not painful, but it’s not comfortable either. Um, and uh, you know, sadly you don’t get like magic powers, but it is one of those things where like it, [00:11:00] yeah. [00:11:00] It’s not a super comfortable thing. Um, but, but it’s not like super painful, but it’s also, yeah, it’s not super comfortable to like have, you know, Something hot and sharp and whatever, like on your eyeball, it’s just not. Uh, and so, um, they were like, all right, stay off screens for the day. And if it, if it doesn’t, if it persists or whatever, then they can come in. [00:11:21] But, but, but take it off. So. Um, on Tuesday, I basically had to, like, I was very, very, very limited, like on any screens, I was listening to a lot of podcasts because I’m now in a position where I have I’m very near-sighted and this is why my retina, I think, like I had the tear, it’s more common in people who are near-sighted. [00:11:40] Um, like it’s, it’s not something I did it wasn’t, I didn’t have any sort of trauma or whatever. It was just one of those, like, things that just happen. But, um, Like I’m in this position where I can’t see anything more than, I don’t know, five inches in front of my face. Uh, and I [00:12:00] can’t look at screens and I’m just like, this sucks. [00:12:05] So I was like, I guess I can listen to podcasts and. Taylor Swift music, uh, you know, but it was like one of those things, like it’s, and it’s even one of those things like it, you know, it’s hard to like walk around even like, when you’re like this blind, this is why I was freaking out on Saturday. When I woke up, I was like, Holy shit. [00:12:21] Like I’m, this is like an unsafe situation. I mean, I’m kind of, I guess, in retrospect, again, like happy that we’re in a situation where, you know, we’re not expected to go into work because I don’t know how I would get into an office or something. You know, um, with, with being able to see the way that I am. [00:12:40] So now, now we’re like two days later and my eye is still a little sore, but it’s fine. But the floaters seem to have gone away. So [00:12:50] Brett: [00:12:50] But you [00:12:50] Christina: [00:12:50] I’m fine. [00:12:51] Brett: [00:12:51] now. [00:12:52] Christina: [00:12:52] But yeah, I can look at screens now I’m going to try to be like more limited and like, not be on them, like for [00:13:00] 16 or 17 hours a day. But yeah, [00:13:03] Brett: [00:13:03] Does your prescription change much? [00:13:05] Christina: [00:13:05] Not really. Um, and in fact like it, so when I saw him a year ago, he wrote me two prescriptions for my contacts and he was like, here’s a higher one and a lower one, and you can have them both billed. [00:13:18] But if you feel like you need the higher one, get it filled. And I didn’t, I just had the lower one filled. And then she said the same thing. She was going to give me the higher one. But when she kind of showed both, she was like, well, no, if you can make, do with the lower one, which is still. You know, moderate, uh, Lehigh. [00:13:33] She was like, then, then do that. Um, don’t, don’t go up. So it doesn’t change very often. Like it has changed over time obviously, but, but you know, it’s every, every two years or so, I would say that I probably go up. [00:13:48] Brett: [00:13:48] huh? My, I got my first pair of glasses when I was 12 and it like, I, I had been near-sighted for years and didn’t realize that like trees had individual leaves and things like that. [00:14:00] Um, so I got my glasses. I think I was around 12 and my prescription has not changed since. I I’m required to get an eye exam. [00:14:10] Uh, my, uh, my next layer every two years. And in order to keep getting contacts, I have to get an eye exam, but it’s pointless because my prescription never changes. [00:14:23] Christina: [00:14:23] what’s your prescription. [00:14:24] Brett: [00:14:24] Fuck. If I know, why would I know that [00:14:27] Christina: [00:14:27] I don’t know. [00:14:28] Brett: [00:14:28] it’s like negative 1.5, but I have no idea. 1.5. What. And my, my left eye is worse than my right eye [00:14:37] Christina: [00:14:37] That’s no, I mean that’s low. Yeah. My mine is, mine is negative six. Um, which, uh, is not great, but it’s also not like terrible. Like there’s some people who are like negative 12, which was like, for people who have that, like they need, they have to wear hard contact lenses because [00:14:55] Brett: [00:14:55] or [00:14:56] Christina: [00:14:56] have to be so thick. Yeah. But like, [00:15:00] So I think we’ve talked about this before. So, so you got glasses when you were 12. Did you get contacts then too? Or how old were you when you got contacts? [00:15:08] Brett: [00:15:08] remember. I think I didn’t get context until high school. [00:15:11] Christina: [00:15:11] Okay. Um, yeah, so I got contacts when I was eight. Um, I bet. Yeah. So I basically had glasses for like two days, maybe. So, uh, it started when, like I was in first grade and I found out I had to go, it was needing to sit in the front of the room to be able to see things. And then my vision was, was slowly showing that it was worse. [00:15:32] And so I went to the doctor and you have to think that in like 1991, um, glasses for kids, well, they still suck, frankly. They still suck, but they really sucked then, like you had very limited number of frames. And they were ugly and I hated how they looked and I cried and I was like, I don’t want to wear these. [00:15:52] And like, I cried on the way home. I think I wore them all twice for probably 45 minutes. And I was just like, asked my mom was like, [00:16:00] why can’t I just get contact lenses? And she was like, well, I’m not sure she asked the doctor. And he put somebody who I think was as young as maybe nine or 10 in them never, never anybody eight. [00:16:12] And he was like, well, If she’s responsible enough, if she can, you know, do it in the office, then we’ll, we’ll let her have them. And I was able to do it and it took me, you know, it used to take me a long time to put them in and now I made it, I don’t even need it. I haven’t needed a mirror in years. You know, it was one of those things when like the, um, um, optometrist who was super sweet, um, at the, the Costco clinic, she was asking me, she was like, is there any reason why you sleep in your contacts? [00:16:40] And I was like, I’ve been wearing contacts for 30 years. I bad habits. She’s like, no, it’s fine. You, you change the more frequently if you do that. But you know, like, because these are rated a certain way or whatever, but she was like, it’s fine. I was like, yeah. I was like, I should probably, you know, take better care of things or whatever, but, you know, I never had any issues. [00:16:59] And, [00:17:00] and for the record, The terror. My retina had nothing to do with, with my like regime of my contact lenses. Um, because I did ask about that. I was like, did I do anything for this? She was like, no, she was like, you could get like an eye ulcer or some other stuff, which I did have once. And, and that was enough for me to be like, no, I’ll take better care of like my, my, my contact lens health. [00:17:21] But at this point, like I’ve been wearing them for, you know, like so much of my life that, um, I should get LASIK now that I’ve had like one laser in my eye now I’m kind of like, well, fuck it. I should just get the, get the whole thing done. Um, [00:17:39]Brett: [00:17:39] we have dedicated 20 minutes of our show to iHealth. We should be sponsored by, uh, maybe, uh, what’s that ma uh, pouch and loam [00:17:52] Christina: [00:17:52] yeah. Yeah. Bausch and Lomb. Them or, or, um, uh, who is it? Uh, uh, Oasis is, is, uh, [00:18:00] is, is the brand name of whoever I do it, but yeah, Bausch and Lomb or somebody else should definitely sponsor us. [00:18:05] Brett: [00:18:05] week’s episode brought to you by two people who sleep in their contact. I sleep in mind for. Uh, generally a month at a time. And then I’ll take them out and let them soak for a day or two and I’ll wear glasses. And then I’ll put the same pair back in for another month. And I changed my contacts like every two months. [00:18:25] And I’m honest with this, about this with my doctor and, and he basically is like, your eyes look fine. Your, your eyes are in great shape. I really, I don’t endorse the way you treat them, but you it’s not causing you any problems. So carry on. [00:18:42] Christina: [00:18:42] Right. Yeah, exactly. This has been my scenario as well. So, uh, but again, anyone listening, we’re not doctors we’ve made that pretty clear. Uh, [00:18:51]Brett: [00:18:51] Yes. Yes, we have [00:18:54]Christina: [00:18:54] but, uh, but who are we really sponsored by this week? [00:18:57] Brett: [00:18:57] Oh, well, uh, let’s [00:19:00] start with, uh, with some, some cat litter. Um, so I, this morning was yoga. Uh, at home, of course, uh, and, uh, The kitten bod. Uh, she, she was having a very wild morning, like tearing around the house, jumping up on things, attacking toes and just going nuts. And she had started to calm down by the time yoga started and like all through, like we, uh, enforced yoga. [00:19:31] You do a lot of AB work. Um, so all through abs while I’m on my back, she’s sitting on my chest, just watching me. And then we went straight into bridge and she fell asleep. She’s just like sleeping on my chest all the way through bridge. It was pretty hilarious. Um, but anyway, [00:19:52] Christina: [00:19:52] is awesome. [00:19:53] Brett: [00:19:53] she really is so, Oh, w while we’re talking about CA so Valentine’s day [00:20:00] would have been Finnegan’s birthday. [00:20:03] So that was kind of, uh, uh, [00:20:05] Christina: [00:20:05] A hard one. [00:20:06] Brett: [00:20:06] Yeah, it was, it was rough for us, but I, I, it made me fully cognizant that bod has, has brought me joy in a, in a place that would have been really sad. So, uh, rest in peace Finnegan. Uh, we also got bod spade the day before Valentine’s day. So she was groggy and I was seriously concerned. [00:20:36] That something horrible was going to happen, but it didn’t end. And this morning was proof that she survived. Anyway. One of the great things about cats is that you don’t have to let them out. In the fucking gold or take them for walks in the cold. [00:20:55] Christina: [00:20:55] cold, right. [00:20:56] Brett: [00:20:56] But the downside of that is that they poop inside your [00:21:00] house and, uh, and they don’t know how to use a toilet. [00:21:02] So you end up cleaning a litter box. So. Question for you. What if there was a way to have an odor-free litter box? It was easy to clean and automatically replaced every month. And what if it was leak-proof and made from entirely recycled material and itself was recyclable as well. That’s what kitty poo club does. [00:21:23] Kitty poo club is an all-in-one litter box solution designed to be convenient for you. Every month, kitty poo club delivers an affordable high quality recyclable litter box. That’s prefilled with the litter of your choice. And as I’ve mentioned before, I chose the soy-based litter because hippies and, uh, it has been like I’ve had the same litter out for a full month. [00:21:50] And it does not smell at all, like at all. So I am really impressed with this particular litter. I haven’t tried the [00:22:00] nontoxic still look a litter, but if it’s anything like this, soy-based litter, it there, their promise of an odor free litter box is valid. Um, and bod, who we were just talking about. She loves it too. [00:22:15] We you’re supposed to have one more litter box, then you have number of cats. So we have [00:22:22] Christina: [00:22:22] So, so you’re supposed to have three. [00:22:23] Brett: [00:22:23] So we have three litter boxes. Only one of them right now is a kitty poo club box. Bod almost always picks the kitty poo club litter. She loves it. Um, I don’t. Yeti Yeti, maybe it’s a territory thing, but Yeti, Yeti likes the one that we have a smallish house. [00:22:46] And so with three litter boxes, one of them almost has to be in my bedroom and. I didn’t get the kitty poo club box in my bedroom. Elle got that one in [00:23:00] her bedroom. Um, because we have separate bedrooms because you have, it is so nice. I never had that when I was married, we always shared a bed and it turns out I really don’t like sleeping with other people. [00:23:12] So anyway, side tangent, but. [00:23:15] Christina: [00:23:15] That is the dream to be totally honest. I have a bedroom. I’m a huge fan of [00:23:19] Brett: [00:23:19] It is so nice here. It is so nice. The side side, side, tangent, Bob tends to sleep with me and she curls up in the crook of my knee. And one of the beauties of sleeping in your own bed is you can fart, like it’s okay to fart. Bod, however, hates farts. She bites my butt. If I fart like threw the blanket, she will bite me. [00:23:47] It’s it’s pretty hilarious. And then I crack up, but anyway, these boxes are leak-proof eco-friendly and have a fun design for every season. When the month is up, you just recycled the box in kitty poo [00:24:00] club automatically delivers a brand new one, a no changing use litter, and you might even be able to get away without cleaning the litter at all. [00:24:08] You can cut. The reason that we do clean our litter is because the dog eats the poop and we don’t want the dog eating the poop. So other than that, honestly, it, it, I, if you don’t have a dog that eats poop yeah. You can get away without cleaning your litter at all. Uh, and you can customize your order based on how many cats you have and what type of litter they prefer. [00:24:31] And kitty poo club has a no risk guarantee. So you can easily customize or cancel anytime. Right now, kitty poo club is offering you our loyal listeners 20% off your first order when you set up auto-ship by going to kitty poo club.com and entering promo code over tired. So if you love your cat, but you hate the litter. [00:24:53] That’s kitty poo club.com and promo code overtired. I just made like a five minute [00:25:00] read out of that too. [00:25:01] Christina: [00:25:01] That’s [00:25:02] Brett: [00:25:02] we’re moving slowly today. We’re already halfway through the show and we haven’t even talked about Taylor Swift’s new album yet. [00:25:11] Christina: [00:25:11] I know. Which is important. [00:25:14] Brett: [00:25:14] I mean, w this is above all else. A Taylor Swift podcast, [00:25:19] Christina: [00:25:19] It is a Taylor Swift podcast. So. [00:25:21] Brett: [00:25:21] a Brittany Spears podcast, apparently, but [00:25:24] Christina: [00:25:24] Yes. Yes, yes. A follow up on that. Uh, Elle sent me a really nice DM this morning that I haven’t had a chance to respond to, but I will because of the eye thing, um, because she had thoughts about it, which were really thoughtful that I’m going to respond to. [00:25:37] Brett: [00:25:37] I told you [00:25:38] Christina: [00:25:38] thank you, L definitely is. [00:25:41] So thank you Al for that, because I appreciate it. Like. [00:25:46] Brett: [00:25:46] She told me she’s like, I like Christina. It doesn’t have to make good on her. Like, uh, talking about like having an in-depth conversation. With me, but, but she does have thoughts. [00:25:58] Christina: [00:25:58] I love that. And I’m [00:26:00] very appreciative of that to be totally honest, because I’ve been thinking a lot about it. So Taylor Swift is rerecording all of her old news. [00:26:09]Brett: [00:26:09] W I thought w I thought Ryan Adams already did that for her. [00:26:14] Christina: [00:26:14] bump, bump? [00:26:15]Brett: [00:26:15] Okay. So, so again, this is like second time around. [00:26:19] Christina: [00:26:19] Yes. Speaking of problematic faves, um, [00:26:23] Brett: [00:26:23] tell me what I don’t. I don’t know about this. [00:26:26] Christina: [00:26:26] Oh, Oh you, Oh, he got canceled hard. [00:26:29] Brett: [00:26:29] Oh, wow. [00:26:30] Christina: [00:26:30] Uh, so he, um, so, you know, uh, uh, Phoebe Bridgers, [00:26:36] Brett: [00:26:36] No. [00:26:37] Christina: [00:26:37] she’s great. She’s you would like her she’s really good. She came forward that he likes, started grooming her when she was like, Really young and like taking advantage of her and like basically kind of like held albums and stuff. [00:26:49] She was working on hostage and other women came forward about abusive behavior. Mandy Moore, his ex wife came forward and was like, yeah, he was like an emotionally [00:27:00] abusive, like asshole when we were married that also like held some of her albums and art stuff, hostage, like some. Underage girl. It’s, it’s unclear if he knew she was underage or not, like came forward about like their relationship and, and, um, sexting stuff and whatnot. [00:27:22] Um, yeah. Yeah. He got canceled. Hardcore. [00:27:26] Brett: [00:27:26] I totally missed that. [00:27:28] Christina: [00:27:28] Yeah. So, um, It’s a problem. I mean, it’s terrible. Like what he did, obviously. And then he like released some like pseudo apology thing. And then he, it happened right before he was supposed to release like two albums in a year. And those were obviously shelved, although he has his own record label. [00:27:46] So, you know, he can do his own kind of thing, but you know, his, his touring and all that stuff was out. And then he did actually release. The the album and he was just kind of, it was, it was written beforehand and he [00:28:00] released, you know, an apology, but it’s not clear if that’s going to be enough or not. I don’t know. [00:28:06] It’s um, he’s always been one of my favorite artists, so [00:28:10] Brett: [00:28:10] like the kind of thing you can apologize away. That sounds like the kind of thing that I, 100% thinks someone should, should be canceled for. [00:28:18] Christina: [00:28:18] Yeah, no, I agree in the difficult thing then becomes like, it’s the whole, like, you know, like art versus artists thing. And, and I, I can’t pretend like I don’t still enjoy and have like good emotional memories of his past work, but it is also one of those things where I’m like, yeah, I’m not going to listen to his new stuff, you know? [00:28:36] And even the past stuff is, unfortunately now tanged with this. With this weird-ass, which is unfortunate, but like, I, you know, obviously don’t condone or support anything that he did, but God it’s really unfortunate. Um, uh, mostly for the, for the women who had to suffer, like yeah. [00:28:54] Brett: [00:28:54] yeah, I just thought of a perfect segue to our second sponsor. I’m going to hold onto [00:29:00] it because [00:29:01] Christina: [00:29:01] Wash to wash it [00:29:02] Brett: [00:29:02] Yes. Oh my God. Yes. But anyway, we’ll get back to that. So Taylor is, is rerecording old stuff because she already put out two albums this year [00:29:12] Christina: [00:29:12] Right, [00:29:13] Brett: [00:29:13] you know what? Let’s let’s keep going and just start from the beginning and do it all again. [00:29:20] Christina: [00:29:20] exactly. It’s that? And um, so her masters have now been sold twice. I think we talked about this before. So she was with a record label called big machine records. That that was, I think she was the first artist they signed that she signed with when she was 15 years old. And she was with them for her first six albums. [00:29:41] So, uh, or self-titled fearless speak now read 1989 reputation and, uh, And yes, I did just like rattle that off the top of my head without even having to think about it, which is really sad. Um, and so, [00:30:00] um, this is true. So she, uh, those first six albums were with that label and she’d wanted to own her own masters. [00:30:08] And, and by owning that, like, she’s the song writer on all of her songs. Uh, sometimes she’s the soul song, right. But she’s at least like one of them, like on all of them. And so she owns her publishing, meaning that she. Gets control over who can license the song. And she gets paid every time, like a fee every time, you know, as long as played or covered or whatever, um, as a songwriter, but the mechanical recording of like the song itself, the master recording, the music video, uh, the album art, like all that stuff belongs to belong to the label, which is fairly common. [00:30:42] She wanted to own her masters and she claims that she was never given an opportunity to own her masters. Um, instead what she was given was kind of an idea, which was okay if you re up and reassign another deal with us, because after her initial deal had expired for each new album, you give [00:31:00] us, we’ll give you the masters back on an old album. [00:31:05] Um, and. And she was like, but, but, but I don’t want that. I just want to buy them outright. And, and the, the, the CEO, the owner of the record label, he wanted to sell the record label and she knew that was going to happen. Why she didn’t buy the record label outright. I’m not sure she claimed she was not ever given the opportunity to buy her masters outright. [00:31:24] There’s dispute about that. But he then sold the record label to someone and not just anyone, but someone who Taylor has beef with someone who tailored very much dislikes. And this obviously may Taylor very, very, very upset. So Taylor came forward with a statement. Uh, this was like in, in, in 2019, when, when this was revealed that, you know, how, how, like, you know, like destroyed, she felt by it, how upset she was by it and, and really started advocating for artists rights. [00:31:55] And then was basically kind of like, okay. And starting, you know, next year I [00:32:00] can rerecord. All of my music because, um, you know, you have to like the clause in, in, in her contract basically said, uh, you know, you can rerecord after if it’s been, you know, at least five years or whatever. So for her first five albums, she was like, I, you know, enough time over the past that I, that I can rerecord, you know? [00:32:21] Um, but my first five albums or whatever, and I, and I’m going to do that because I don’t want this, this guy, scooter Braun to get money. And own my work. He’s still gonna own the masters, know my music, videos and things that are really personal to me, but I don’t want them profiting off of this. Well, that kicked off a back and forth and people were, you know, people on both sides were, were, were saying stuff. [00:32:43] And then over the summer, Um, right before she released folklore, it came out that scooter Braun sold her masters. So not the whole label, but her masters to Shamrock holdings, which is like, uh, [00:33:00] uh, um, Private equity firm for $335 million, which was like the same amount that he paid for the entire record label. [00:33:08] So he he’d gotten funders cause he doesn’t have that kind of cash to buy the record label for over $300 billion. And then he sold just her masters for more than that, um, to this the Shamrock whole lanes. And at first she was like, I talked to the Shamrock. They were really supportive. I liked working with them, but he still going to get a cut up some stuff for as period of time. [00:33:29] And I don’t want him getting anything from anything that I do. So I’m still gonna go forward and rerecord everything. So she announced last week as kind of surprise the, the first. Uh, the release date for her first, like kind of fully rerecorded album, which is her second album fearless that she won album of the year for and a re-released, um, version of love story Taylor’s version, which was her first international number one. [00:33:58] And, uh, [00:34:00] it’s good. [00:34:02] Brett: [00:34:02] all right. [00:34:02] Christina: [00:34:02] good. [00:34:03] Brett: [00:34:03] All right. [00:34:05] Christina: [00:34:05] Um, [00:34:05] Brett: [00:34:05] I, Frank Frank, our friend grumpy, Frank, he, uh, he, he, he DMD me to let me know there was, uh, there was new stuff that I, I should, I should check out. And I didn’t because I, I got other stuff to do. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I didn’t realize what it was at all until just now that, that, that was what was going on. [00:34:31] That’s that’s interesting. Yeah, [00:34:33] Christina: [00:34:33] Yeah. And, and, um, the, the way that she’s doing it, I mean, obviously she wants them to sound as close to the originals as possible because, um, that’s the whole point, right? Cause it’s really, the whole point of this is I think to is to, to lessen the value of the originals, which will always have value. [00:34:50] I think that her goal would be long-term would be okay. Make this so that she can sell the sync rights, which would be like, meaning like the. The, the rights to be [00:35:00] used in, in, in TV or movies or whatever, um, uh, for these new ones. Cause she’ll, she’ll approve that she won’t approve the old version. She’ll approve the new ones. [00:35:08] Um, make it valuable enough for the new ones. De-value the originals to the point where maybe Shamrock will be willing to sell them to her for. I don’t know, a hundred million dollars in a few years or whatever, right? Like that they’ll, they won’t see it as an appreciating asset, but as, as depreciating because she is doing this other stuff. [00:35:26] Um, so it sounds really similar, but also her voices has gotten a lot better. So you, it sounds. It’s actually interesting to listen to the two side by side, because the instrumentation is richer, although it’s, you know, similar, um, she got many of the same people who, who were on the original to record with her on the new one. [00:35:48] Um, but her voice sounds better. And, uh, it’s just like a more full sound. Um, it’s really interesting it’s to, to listen to it, how it like sounds exactly like the old song, but also different. [00:36:00] Uh, it it’s it’s, it’s good. I’m super, super excited to hear the rest of her catalog as that comes out and what she’s going to do when she releases. [00:36:10] Fearless it’ll be out in April 9th, um, is that she has, uh, six additional songs that were from her vault that she’d never recorded before. Exactly, exactly. And so, um, the, the, the music video, or I guess I should say like lyric video, she did was actually really sweet because like love stories, like probably. [00:36:31] Like it, it was her first really, really big head. And, and it’s, it’s the one that like, she always performs and has updated a couple of times make more like a more modern twist, like for 1989, like she made like kind of a synth pop kind of variant of it and whatnot. And, um, she didn’t do that for this rerecording. [00:36:48] Like she very much kept like the banjo and like the, the, the, um, uh, You know, um, slide, um, a guitar and stuff like that, uh, in it, but, uh, the fiddles [00:37:00] and violins and whatnot. But, um, she, um, made a lyric video that because it’s one of her most iconic music videos, and one of the sad things about this, I’m going to have to imagine it makes her like, feel. [00:37:13] Violated is that, you know, okay. So you’re like 18 years old or whatever. When, when this album comes out, when you start to work on this stuff for it, you’re your first, her first album is like, they are in essence kind of like her photo albums and like her, her memories. Right. And all of that belongs to somebody else. [00:37:32] So. That has to be kind of shitty to be like, okay, all this stuff. That was my work. That was my art or whatever, belongs to someone else. I don’t have any ownership of it. And beyond that, like, because my songs are my diaries, this does feel like my life, which is now, you know, under someone else’s control. [00:37:49] So the lyric video, I know I’m a PSAP and I’m a huge Taylor Swift, Stan. We all know this, but I did actually kind of like tear up because it’s all photos of her. With [00:38:00] fans, like from the very early part of her career, which was, was really sweet. So she was like, kind of saying like, the love story, you know, is, is her and her fans, which is really sweet. [00:38:12] Um, and I thought it was a nice way for them to. Address the music video thing. Cause it’s like, how do you can’t recreate that music video? It’s one of those iconic things where, you know, she like, you know, was in this, you know, corset and did this, like this kid’s thing. And like, you know, meets this dreamy looking guy and in the, um, you know, woods or whatever. [00:38:33] And. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s this very romantic fairy tale, like, like an 18 year olds idea of romance sort of thing, right? Like it’s, it’s like not a realistic thing, but it’s, you know, very much like a, of that era. Like you can’t recreate that. You wouldn’t want to recreate that, but to have, you know, the, the photographs and like some video footage of home movies and stuff, you know, of, of her from that era was really sweet to see. [00:38:57] Um, and, uh, [00:39:00] What’s also great for her because she’s freaking genius is that she gets to resell this now. So people like me are going to buy an album that they bought 12 years ago. Like multiple copies of, cause she’s releasing it on vinyl, on gold vinyl, which obviously I’m getting, and then I went ahead and I’m going to get like the CD or the iTunes or whatever. [00:39:23] And you know, also, you know, they can rerelease the songs to radio. They can put it on Spotify playlist, like. She gets to double dip the same way, you know, artists like do like remastered box sets or whatever, except this, this feels better than that because it’s like, Oh no, these are rerecorded and it’s for a purpose. [00:39:42] Right? So like that the fans like me are like, Oh no, but see, we need to buy this. And we don’t feel taken advantage of the way you sometimes do when like an artist, we release the box set of stuff. Cause you’re like, Oh no, see, cause this is now really Taylor’s now she gets a hundred percent of the money instead of just 70%. [00:39:59] Brett: [00:39:59] it’s like [00:40:00] when you take an application and you rewrite it with modern underpinnings and then add a couple of new features and then you can sell it all over again with an upgrade price. [00:40:11] Christina: [00:40:11] Yes or [00:40:12] Brett: [00:40:12] I made this make sense to me. [00:40:14] Christina: [00:40:14] you did. You did anyway. So that’s the Taylor Swift news. I, I encourage you to listen to the new version at some point it’s actually, I would be interested in your perspective, like. And love story is not going to be one of your favorite songs when 1989 is redone. Like, that’ll be the interesting one. [00:40:30] I, cause I would love to like, hear like how she’s able to compare that. But I would like from you from like somebody who’s a musician, like for you to like listen to the two versions side by side, I’d be interested in your like analytical take from that because I do actually think that’s interesting now too, to be able to, like, I was listening to the two versions side by side and I was like, this is actually really interesting to. [00:40:51] Here, the subtle differences in instrumentation, as well as just how our voice has changed and improved. [00:40:58] Brett: [00:40:58] all right. Aye. Aye. [00:41:00] Aye. Solomnly swear that I will, I will do that. And I will offer thoughtful, thoughtful analysis as a, uh, an appreciator, but not a fan. Uh, someone who can look at it without any emotional [00:41:17] Christina: [00:41:17] I was going to say, I was going to say no, that this is why I’m asking you, because like, I think that would be like good. Cause I can’t pretend that I, I am like, not a fan. Like I can try to be objective, but I’m not objective. So I would be interested in, in your perspective, uh, before we go into our next sponsor read, I just want to know from you, what artists of yours would you like to hear them? [00:41:38] Like maybe you rerecord their catalog, like, you know, with the, with avid of time, you know, like maybe with like their. Uh, more, you know, like if their voice has gotten better or their, or their skills have gotten better, is there an artist that you would like to hear them rerecord or, or reattempt a classic album? [00:41:55] Brett: [00:41:55] Is it okay. If it would be impossible to do [00:41:58] Christina: [00:41:58] Yeah, of course. [00:41:59] Brett: [00:41:59] Elliot [00:42:00] Smith, [00:42:00] Christina: [00:42:00] Yeah. Yeah. [00:42:03] Brett: [00:42:03] like most of, most of them music I liked that is old enough to be worth rerecording. I wouldn’t want them to, because I love the classic sound and there’s a, you know, I pull up these old albums because I want to hear the way they used to [00:42:18] Christina: [00:42:18] Yes, totally. [00:42:20] Brett: [00:42:20] Elliot Smith though, his music was so brilliant and his evolution was just beginning [00:42:27] Christina: [00:42:27] It [00:42:27] Brett: [00:42:27] and, and, you know, whatever the circumstances around his death, it seems a little murky, but, [00:42:35] Christina: [00:42:35] does. It does. But regardless. [00:42:37] Brett: [00:42:37] yeah, like it, it, I would be very curious to see if he rerecorded some of his best music now, what that would be like. [00:42:47] Speaking of dead musicians. Um, I, so I was talking with my friend, Jeff Severns Gunzel the other day, actually yesterday. And, and we were talking about throwing away old [00:43:00] records and like, I basically my entire vinyl collection I let go of except for two records, uh, two seven inch records, one of my band and one of a band called man frayed. [00:43:13] That I just loved. And the lead singer had committed suicide, uh, while I was still living in Minneapolis and it was a sad story and I still listen to this album with like a tinge of, of melancholy and. And sadness, but turned out. I mentioned it to Jeff and he was like the lead singer of that band actually introduced two of the most important people in my life. [00:43:43] Uh, and like this, this band, the members of this band had been pivotal to his life and his career. And it was this weird. Weird correlation, I guess, like we both lived in Minneapolis [00:44:00] around the same time. And uh, yeah. Anyway, let’s get back to female musicians. Cause I have something to say, but first say Ryan Adam’s name, [00:44:11] Christina: [00:44:11] Ryan [00:44:12] Brett: [00:44:12] speaking of Ryan Adams and things you need to wash off [00:44:15] Christina: [00:44:15] Yes. [00:44:16] Brett: [00:44:16] or, or alternative segue, you know what the best way to shake it off is. [00:44:22] Christina: [00:44:22] Put the shower [00:44:23] Brett: [00:44:23] Yes. Um, so w this week’s episode is also sponsored by Nebia, by Mowen, and they make this shower that it uses 45% less water than even a low-flow shower heads, but provides twice the coverage. And they were kind enough to send both Christina and I, a shower heads. And, uh, I installed mine. I used to be a plumber. [00:44:54] Okay. I was a plumber’s apprentice, but the installation was super easy for me. But I’m [00:45:00] curious, you, Christina, did you find it pretty simple to install? [00:45:05] Christina: [00:45:05] Yes, and I should be very clear. I am not a plumber. I am not good with tools. I am not somebody who like likes that sort of thing. Um, you know, grant has tools. Uh, but, uh, I, I tried to do it as much myself as I could. And, um, honestly it was, it was remarkably easy to install. [00:45:25] Brett: [00:45:25] And, uh, as, uh, so the cool thing about it for me is that the it’s it’s on this like twenty-five inch, uh, up and down arm. And you can just slide the head up and down and tilt it. Up and down like angled ahead. So you can get it exactly where you wanted it, any point in your shower. And I love that, but I’m curious as a woman with hair, does that, is that like, is that convenient for you? [00:45:56] Christina: [00:45:56] Yeah, no, it was really, it’s really nice because sometimes you [00:46:00] do want it to be a little bit higher or lower. It also has a wand, which is really great for like shaving your legs or your arms, or, or, you know, like other parts of your body, which like, it makes it really convenient. But being able to like, you know, adjust the head so that as you said, yeah, because I have a lot of hair and I haven’t had a haircut in a year and I need to get a haircut desperately, but my hair is now like, Incredibly long. [00:46:21] And so, um, being able to kind of adjust the flow, you know, so that I, it both feels good. Um, and, and is also able to like wash, you know, I have like, uh, uh, enough of a flow to, you know, like get enough suds and stuff in my hair so that I’m not like, you know, gonna try, no, I’m not starting to see if that can make a gorilla glue girl, uh, the girlfriends and I can’t can’t do it. [00:46:46] Brett: [00:46:46] it seems to me like getting the suds in is the easy part, rinsing them out would be the part I would be concerned about. [00:46:53] Christina: [00:46:53] That’s the thing, right? Like you want to be able to like you yeah, exactly. Like you want to be able to like wash it out and like, you want to be able to have that angle, but it’s [00:47:00] great because it’s this, it’s this, um, you know, like, um, like rain shower kind of, um, uh, like motif, which uses less water, but is incredibly, incredibly comfortable. [00:47:11] It’s one of those things. Like, I love how it feels. It’s, um, a huge upgrade from the shower head that I, you know, I had that came with my apartment. And, um, in grant shower, we don’t have two bedrooms. We have two bathrooms. He has like, he has the upgraded. Uh, he like a number of years ago we bought like a better shower head. [00:47:33] And like, he has that one and I was like, all right, fine. You can have that one. I’m getting this one. He’s very jealous. And I’m like, Nope, this is my bathroom. You have your own bike. You don’t get this [00:47:44] Brett: [00:47:44] Like I’m super picky about shower heads. And the shower head that I replaced was I really liked it. Like I had very intentionally picked it out and installed it, and it wa it had like eight different settings and, and a wand and everything. [00:48:00] And I was a little concerned that I wouldn’t like this one as much, but it turns out and I say this despite being paid. [00:48:09]It’s better. I like it. And, and L likes it too. Uh, that, that’s always the other concern. When I upgrade things in our houses, will I just make it worse for someone else? And L L loves it and it’s been, it’s been good all around. Um, tip I installed the wand at waist level. So it like has this magnetic kind of ball that attaches to the shower wall and then it pivot and you can like rotate it all around on that ball at the point in any direction. [00:48:42] So I found like at waist level, it gives me like extra, uh, like the shower diffuses. That’s how it saves water. So by the time it gets down to about your knees, it’s a little more, uh, diffused. Then it [00:49:00] is up around your shoulders. So putting the wand halfway down makes it a perfect full body shower. Um, I shouldn’t mention. [00:49:08] This shower head was designed by former Tesla, NASA and Apple engineers who spent years researching and developing a superior shower experience. And D the superior shower experience is, is true, but the fact that it saves like half of your water bill, you can take showers twice as long, or take this same shower for half as much money. [00:49:34] And that’s, that’s kind of amazing. [00:49:36] Christina: [00:49:36] also like using less water is an important thing. [00:49:40] Brett: [00:49:40] Sure. Like from an ecological standpoint. [00:49:43]Christina: [00:49:43] Yeah. [00:49:44] Brett: [00:49:44] Yes. For sure. Like, I have well water, which I love, like it is, I did a water test on our water just to see if there were any like contaminants or, or, uh, high alkaline or anything like that. And we have perfect [00:50:00] water, like perfect water. I love it. Um, so we don’t also have a water bill. [00:50:05] But we pay an electrical bill to run the pump. [00:50:09] Christina: [00:50:09] right. [00:50:09] Brett: [00:50:09] we’re seeing savings on the electrical bill, which is cool. [00:50:15] Christina: [00:50:15] Yeah. Yeah. So our water, like, because I’m in an apartment and I’m not sure like how it’s allocated, because like we have like a water bill, but it’s, it’s, it’s like, you know, I think that is allocated fairly evenly across the units. I’m not really quite sure if it’s a usage thing or not. So, and I haven’t had a Cinsault long enough to know like what the impact on you, my bills would be on, but as you said, yeah, you can have a, twice as long shower or like, you know, if you. [00:50:43] Don’t want to, cause you use a lot of water, you know, when, when taking a shower and if you are thinking about it from a cultural perspective, I like that a lot, but I just honestly, like I’m going to be real, even aside from like the saving and water thing, I just, I find it a really nice experience. [00:51:00] Like they call it spa-like and I kind of rolled back. [00:51:02] I was like, yeah, sure. And I was like, Oh no, this actually is very much a spa-like experience. Like it very much reminds me of, you know, when you go to. I got a spa and have, you know, uh, the shower afterwards or whatever, and, you know, or you’re at like a high-end hotel. And like, it very much reminds me of, of, um, certain hotels that I’ve stayed at where I’m like, Oh, I really like that shower. [00:51:27] I’m like, Oh, okay. I can have this at home now. And you’re right. The, the, um, The wand, which can be, you know, detached and you can use that for, you know, other stuff, but like it, [00:51:40] Brett: [00:51:40] Let’s be honest. That’s what wands are for. [00:51:44] Christina: [00:51:44] yeah, sure. Uh, I mean, honestly, uh, for, for, for, for me, it really is mostly like for shaving your legs. Um, but, uh, it does make for a nice full body experience, as you said, like it really does. Um, [00:52:00] So I like mine a lot and it took me about half an hour to install. I think they say like 18 minutes on the website. [00:52:07] It took me about half an hour because I was wanting to be really careful cause I’ve never installed anything like this ever, but, uh, I could have done it faster and I was actually impressed. Like if, if I can do this, you can. And I’m one of those people who like it can put together a computer. But like wrenches, you know what I mean? [00:52:26] Like that’s the [00:52:27] Brett: [00:52:27] Yeah, [00:52:27] Christina: [00:52:27] I’m like, like freaks me out. I’m like, I I’m, like, I don’t even know what to do. I’m calling someone. [00:52:31]Brett: [00:52:31] Oh, you want to hear the deal we got for our listeners? Uh, the Nebia by Mowen shower spot. It starts at one 99. Uh, but for overtired listeners, the first 100 people to use the code over-tired at nebia.com will get 15% off all Nebia products. Nebia rarely does deals like this. So you should jump on this, uh, Only the first hundred people go to [00:53:00] nebia.com/overtired that’s N E B I a.com/overtired and check out what they have to offer. [00:53:07] And, uh, first a hundred people save 15%. [00:53:11] Christina: [00:53:11] Yeah. And that’s awesome. And I have to say like, it’s, it’s really, really good shower heads. So if you’ve been looking at upgrading your shower head, uh, this is definitely one you want to check out because I’ve very, very much enjoyed it. [00:53:23] Brett: [00:53:23] So we’ve, we’ve spent. Uh, equal amounts of time on eyes and Taylor Swift and sponsors. I feel like w w that’s like our show is in three parts basically. Um, and I actually, I think we should skip talking about tech at all this week. Well, not entirely because we do have a third sponsor that. It’s tech. So we can’t entirely skip it, but I did want to say, like, I, uh, I’ve been watching, uh, discovery of witches, uh, which has a new season out. [00:53:57] Uh, I don’t know if you ever got into that show, but. [00:54:00] [00:53:59] Christina: [00:53:59] No, but I, but I, I, I, what, what’s it about like, maybe I should check it out, [00:54:04] Brett: [00:54:04] was book. Uh, it’s about, uh, it’s a love story between a witch and a vampire. And it’s that whole like fantasy genre that I typically don’t get into. [00:54:16]Christina: [00:54:16] but you kind of love. [00:54:18] Brett: [00:54:18] Well, no, like I will never lie like a Twilight or any of that shit, but this, [00:54:25] Christina: [00:54:25] I was about to say, I was like, you’re a secret Twilight fan. Aren’t you [00:54:28] Brett: [00:54:28] Um, and I never got like a, what was that one? That’s it’s not Highlander. It’s. Some Scottish time traveler, like there’s some stuff that w it was just clearly made for people with more feminine persuasions than I have. [00:54:44] Uh, but this isn’t that I really, I, I enjoy it. Like, I’m, I’m kind of hooked on it, but anyway, at the end of one of the episodes during the credit roll, they had someone covering a Tory AEMO’s like old little earthquakes era, [00:55:00] Tori AEMO’s. And it got me back into this whole kick I made, I made a playlist that every other song alternates between K Flay and Toria AEMO’s it’s like a totally bipolar playlist. [00:55:16] Christina: [00:55:16] No. Okay. Please have to share this because after you’d mentioned, this was like months ago now. K Flay. I have, I have listened and really enjoyed K Flay. So, and Tori Amos is one of my top five female artists of all time. [00:55:29] Brett: [00:55:29] Yeah, I I’ve even seen her live, which [00:55:32] Christina: [00:55:32] I have to, I’ve [00:55:32] Brett: [00:55:32] for most. Like I’ve seen Tory MOS and I’ve seen Florence and the machine live. Um, and I don’t usually go to that kind of show. I [00:55:42] Christina: [00:55:42] No, Tori’s insane. I’ve seen her a couple of times. She placed two pianos at [00:55:47] Brett: [00:55:47] Yeah, she’s awesome. But like little earthquakes though is like a formative album for me. Like that was high [00:55:54] Christina: [00:55:54] Me too. So I was in elementary school. [00:55:57] Brett: [00:55:57] Oh, geez. Okay. [00:56:00] [00:55:59] Christina: [00:55:59] But, but. We’ll see, this is the weird thing about our ages. Like we’re, we’re not that that many years apart, but, um, like this is like the era where, when you’re that young, like where you see like the differences or whatever. Um, but yeah, I was older when I discovered her. [00:56:16] I like, I’d heard some of her stuff on the radio. Uh, and then, but then I was actually in high school when I discovered little earthquakes, little earthquakes, and I heard some of her, some of her later stuff at that point too. And yeah, little earthquakes is one of those, just like. Stunning stunning albums like unreal. [00:56:34] Brett: [00:56:34] I was into, at that point in my life, I was into like the cure and nine inch nails and some like some punk rock, like, but like all of this at the same Sinead, O’Connor like all at the same time and yeah, little earthquakes. Like I realized when I, when I put this playlist together and I was listening to it, that I still knew all the words to all the songs and it [00:57:00] was, it was, it was pretty cool. [00:57:02] It was [00:57:02] Christina: [00:57:02] She’s unreal. Um, she has, uh, released a series of, she calls them like bootlegs or whatever from some of her tours, uh, her last tour, unfortunately, she didn’t have the bootlegs for, but, um, they’re like official recordings of the tours. But at each one of her shows, what she does is she will do covers like from audience requests. [00:57:21] And so people write, sit down and she’ll pick something out and she’s like, Such a genuine music Virtuo so that she can cover almost any song. And it’s just incredible. [00:57:32] Brett: [00:57:32] like there’s parts on little earthquake where she like little earthquake where she like transitions from like sad melody into like honky-tonk piano and she makes it work. And it’s kind of amazing. [00:57:46] Christina: [00:57:46] No it is. I mean, so she was like an actual child, prodigy musician. Like she, I think she was like five or six years old. Like went to some very, very, very prestigious like music Academy. [00:58:00] And they wound up, I think, kicking her out when she was 13 or 14, because she didn’t want to play classical music. Um, but like people recognized from the time she was. [00:58:13] You know, I guess like basically, you know, could, could play that she is one of those, like once in a, in a generational talents. Right. Uh, and, um, she was in a band and they had more kind of a punk thing. And then she did the earthquakes. It was just as her debut, uh, I guess why Tori can’t read or whatever it was technically first, but, but literal with quakes is like the one everybody knows and, um, When you think about how young she was when she wrote a lot of that and how good it is. [00:58:44] And as you said, like the switching of genres is truly incredible. Have you ever seen the live show that she did from the, uh, well, I think it was LA mantra. I can’t, I can’t think of the name of it, but there’s like, there’s like, okay, well there’s [00:59:00] cause they’ve released the album, but like there there’s this performance that she has from like 91. [00:59:04] I think of a per performing a lot of that stuff. Um, I’ll find it and we’ll put it in the show notes because it is well worth a watch or listen to anyone, even if you think you’re like not a Tory Amos person, if you like are a fan of just musicianship and craftsmanship is incredible to watch, um, her like work, especially like at that stage in her life. [00:59:26] And, um, you know, she. In arguably kicked off that whole kind of like that era of like women’s like women led like singer songwriters with like the nineties, you know, that led into like the little fair thing or whatever. It was like, it was like her Anita Franco, you know, Sarah [00:59:43] Brett: [00:59:43] like there, that was a weird time because like, this is boy band era and like female, female stars much like Brittany at the same time. [00:59:55] Christina: [00:59:55] Well, no, this was before Brittany. [00:59:58] Brett: [00:59:58] okay, wait. Cause these both [01:00:00] happened while I was in high school. So it wasn’t before Brittany by much. [01:00:03] Christina: [01:00:03] Well, it wasn’t, it wasn’t like they, they had different areas. Like Tori started in like 91 and then Brittany was 99. So yeah. [01:00:13] Brett: [01:00:13] Brittany was, while I was in college, [01:00:15] Christina: [01:00:15] Yeah, [01:00:17] Brett: [01:00:17] that doesn’t feel right. [01:00:19] Christina: [01:00:19] it’s correct. Cause I was in high school. [01:00:21] Brett: [01:00:21] Oh man. I did way too many drugs. It’s like a nine year gap right there. [01:00:26]Christina: [01:00:26] Uh, yeah, so, um, but [01:00:31] Brett: [01:00:31] Wait. So when was, when was in sync? [01:00:35] Christina: [01:00:35] 98 99. [01:00:36] Brett: [01:00:36] What, what, Oh, you just blew my mind. Like I have, uh, I I’m worried lately that my, my meds are affecting my memory, but those memories should be pretty stable. I, I hope you’re wrong. I hope you’re lying. Of [01:00:58] Christina: [01:00:58] I’m not, no, I’m not. [01:01:00] [01:00:59] Brett: [01:00:59] Christine. You’re never wrong about [01:01:01] Christina: [01:01:01] No, no, no, no, no, no, but he, but I will give you, I think kind of a bit, a bit of a excuse. This is why I think you might have some confusion. Lilith fair did take off the same time. That like the boy band movement was happening. Those artists existed before that, but like the concert series and like that whole thing was also the late nineties [01:01:24] Brett: [01:01:24] wow. Wow. [01:01:28] Christina: [01:01:28] Lomis Morissette who was later stage that she was arguably she and Fiona Apple, arguably the end of, kind of that era, if we’re being honest, like, um, w th that was 95 for Atlanta in 96 for Fiona. [01:01:41] Brett: [01:01:41] I, so if I had to choose between Fiona, Apple and Alanis Morissette, like now Fiona wins. [01:01:48] Christina: [01:01:48] Is Fiona of course, but if we’re being completely real jagged, little pill is one of the greatest albums of all time. [01:01:55] Brett: [01:01:55] Really, I didn’t like it then. And I like it less now. [01:02:00] [01:02:00] Christina: [01:02:00] Interesting. I see that I think might be the product of time thing. Cause I was like 12 and that was like the perfect 12 year old girl, like an angst on we like everything [01:02:10] Brett: [01:02:10] that was one of the things for me. One of the things that shaped my opinions of certain music was who was into it. And I certainly wasn’t going to be into music that 12 year old girls liked. [01:02:22] Christina: [01:02:22] 100%, 100%. I [01:02:24] Brett: [01:02:24] anything, anything that was too popular with people that I didn’t think were cool. I just automatically Penn didn’t even give it a chance. [01:02:33] Christina: [01:02:33] No. I mean it, which is, which is why. Yeah, I can totally see that. And, and we’ve all had those phases and, and, um, that was like why I was like a very like hidden max Martin fan for such a long time. And of course he’s the, uh, songwriter behind all the boy band and Brittany Spears and, and songs and whatnot. [01:02:54] And like, I liked those pop songs, but I was never going to admit that, like I wanted to. To like, you know, in [01:03:00] high school, like, feel like I liked the, you know, more artsy and, and, um, although it was still mainstream, so it’s hardly, uh, whatever, but, you know, I was in my kind of more indie kind of, I don’t know, it wasn’t in my indie lo-fi phase yet. [01:03:14] I guess it was more alternative rock, but yeah, you know, that’s a very common thing, but, um, I mean, a lot of this was, was 19 when jagged little pill came out. I think Fiona was 18 when, um, Um, her first album came out, so they were young. Right. But it’s interesting because a lot of times I do kind of compare little earthquakes to jagged little pill. [01:03:35] Cause they’re both angry, but in different ways and. Although, um, jagged little pill is the far more commercial record, which is evidenced by the fact that it’s sold something like 27 million copies or whatever, you know, it’s, it’s indisputable that little earthquake and in Toria was only a few years older. [01:03:53] Um, when, when that came out, um, it’s like indisputable that, that [01:04:00] is like the much more artistic like [01:04:03]Brett: [01:04:03] do you remember Boris, the sprinkler? Do you remember, do you remember the Quincy punks? These, these, these were the bands that I eat a bowl of fuck by the Quincy punks. That was, that was like 1999 for me. Uh, drugs and masturbation by Boris the sprinkler. This is what, this is what I understood. Uh, I, I don’t know anything about any of the, the pop music from that era. [01:04:32] Christina: [01:04:32] Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, well, it was the pop of that era was all the boy bands. Uh, the rock of that era was like, cause alternative rock was, was pretty big and, and harder rock was, it was slightly bigger. So you had like, you had good the bands like corn and um, [01:04:47] Brett: [01:04:47] I was too cool for a corn. [01:04:49] Christina: [01:04:49] Of course you were, of course you were going to, but I’m just, but yet things like that. [01:04:52] I recently, I found it on an old playlist because I was going through old mini disks, which is a whole other thing. And I found like buck Cherie. And I was like, Oh [01:05:00] yeah, I remember Bookshare. [01:05:02] Brett: [01:05:02] Um, do you, do you ever get into underworld? Uh, like dark and long and cowgirl, like those that was as close to pop. There was an album. Uh, I don’t remember what year, but it w it was, I’m pretty sure it came out somewhere between 96 and 2000 called, uh, it was, uh, a group called the eighteens [01:05:24] Christina: [01:05:24] Oh, yeah. Yeah, they would be Swedish. [01:05:26] Brett: [01:05:26] It was an album of entirely Abba covers [01:05:30] Christina: [01:05:30] Yeah. [01:05:30] Brett: [01:05:30] or Abba. [01:05:31] Christina: [01:05:31] yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, no. I’m, I’m we’re 18 because they had a TV show. Um, they were like an Abbott tribute band or whatever. Um, [01:05:39] Brett: [01:05:39] loved that shit. I had, I, my girlfriend and I had this whole like synchronized dance [01:05:45] Christina: [01:05:45] Oh, that’s awesome. [01:05:46] Brett: [01:05:46] to like, I don’t know, mama Mia or, or Boulay VU or something. And like that stuff was fun. I used to go there’s this club in Minneapolis, you may be familiar with from purple rain called, uh, Oh my God. [01:06:00] W, well, I just blanked on the name of the club first Avenue. [01:06:03] Um, I used to go to first Avenue for their two for one dance nights. Uh, it was the numbers two 41, but the drinks were also two for one. Um, and they would play underworld and, and occasionally just as a, as a joke, they would throw in a covers and like, I love to dance. Uh, like that was [01:06:25] Christina: [01:06:25] w well, here’s, what’s hilarious about that to me. Okay. So, and I was wrong. The 18th didn’t have, um, a TV show that was S club seven, but I remember, but I remember the eighteens very well, cause they were like the cover thing. And like you had Aqua who did like the Barbie girl song and stuff like that, but like, okay. [01:06:41] But that Swedish pop, right. And, and the, all the boy band stuff. Is all the product of, um, um, Shannon, uh, records, which was max Martin. And, um, I can’t think of the guy’s name right now. He died of cancer, um, fairly, um, early into like the rise [01:07:00] of the boy band thing, but that was all their stuff. And they got their start with what was our generation’s ABA to a lesser extent, which was, um, ACE of base. [01:07:10] Brett: [01:07:10] I remember as a base. [01:07:12] Christina: [01:07:12] Yeah. Well, EISA base was huge, but, but it’s just funny. There’s a great book, uh, genuinely that you should listen to because the audio book is really good. But there’s also a Kindle version. So this is a free suggestion for anybody out there. And it’s called the song machine and it’s by John Seabrook, who is a staff writer at the new Yorker. [01:07:32] And it is it’s, um, it’s about seven years old now. But, um, and so some of the stuff isn’t completely up-to-date in terms of how modern songs are written, but it’s kind of a, a look at like the machine of like how. The same kind of group of people have been responsible for making and, and teams have been responsible in different areas of making, like being responsible for popular music. [01:07:58] And it’s really interesting [01:08:00] to kind of look at like the, the Swedish influence. On pop in general because it’s massive. Like it’s massive. Uh, and, uh, but it’s, it’s an, it’s amazing to me. I love this about you. Like you reject any of the boy band stuff and I understand why it’s not cool. It’s, it’s definitely, you know, like the dance moves, whatever horrible. [01:08:20] Like I get all that, but yet you loved the eighteens and I think you loved it cause you like to dance. And also you’d like the kitchen element and you’re like, Oh, this is, and you’re like, this is an ironic kind of thing. Right? [01:08:31] Brett: [01:08:31] Yeah. It’s almost anti-pop. [01:08:33] Christina: [01:08:33] 100% and I get it cause like I like to Aqua who did the, the Barbie girl song for the same reason, like a, I thought the music video was great. [01:08:41] B the song was really clever. Like I totally get it. Like it wasn’t Ernest and its thing, but it’s just good. It’s kind of like a, what was the, what was movie that, uh, Rachel McAdams and welfare or in the, um, Euro? Um, [01:08:55] Brett: [01:08:55] Oh, yeah. [01:08:56] Christina: [01:08:56] yeah. [01:08:57] Brett: [01:08:57] I forget what that was called, but that was [01:09:00] hilarious. I [01:09:00] Christina: [01:09:00] But it was great and the music was good. Right. And like, Eurovision is awesome. Cause it’s kitschy, like it’s 100% kitsch. Uh, but it’s always the Nordic countries that two really well, um, in that. Right. Like always because that’s, [01:09:15] Brett: [01:09:15] Why is that though? [01:09:18] Christina: [01:09:18] it’s really interesting. [01:09:18] Brett: [01:09:18] They also make some of the best metal comes out of Nordic countries. [01:09:24] Christina: [01:09:24] yeah. [01:09:24] Brett: [01:09:24] How, how do, how does the same place produce like really good pop and really good metal? [01:09:32] Christina: [01:09:32] well, and here’s, what’s really messed up. A lot of them are connected. So the guy who started the record label or the studio or whatever were max Martin and in his whole ilk came up was like a long haired, like heavy metal guy. And it just turned out that he had a real ear for being able to do. These kinds of catchy pop tune melodies, which is, it’s such a weird dichotomy. [01:09:59] Right. But you’re right. [01:10:00] It is like they have the great, like incredibly heavy metal, but also this pop stuff. And I have no idea why. Um, but, uh, maybe there’s something in the water. I don’t know. Like there has to be right [01:10:12] Brett: [01:10:12] fresh Nordic water. Speaking [01:10:14] Christina: [01:10:14] Has [01:10:14] Brett: [01:10:14] today’s Sunday, SPO is brought to you by Fuji. No, that’s not true. You can you stomach one more sponsor. [01:10:22] Christina: [01:10:22] Of course we can because we’re brought to it because it’s text expander who we [01:10:25] Brett: [01:10:25] Just to prove we’re still a tech show. We’re going to have a tech sponsor. So there’s this app for Mac, actually for Mac and windows and iOS. Um, [01:10:37] Christina: [01:10:37] And there’s a web version. [01:10:38] Brett: [01:10:38] is there really. Good to know, um, it’s called text expander and it, it lets you, uh, it prevents you from repeating yourself and typing things over and over by storing snippets of text as long as they need to be and triggering them with just short, uh, [01:11:00] abbreviations. [01:11:00] So like for me, if I T if I, and you can get like complicated with it and you can write scripts. [01:11:07] Christina: [01:11:07] Scripts, which are awesome. Yep. [01:11:09] Brett: [01:11:09] So for me, if someone needs a cross-grade license for Mark, if they’re using the Mac app store version and sandboxing is preventing them from doing something advanced with it, I can type in an email response. [01:11:21] I type comma, comma, M L I C, and then I hit the space bar and it. Goes out. It gets them UN it uses the paddle API, gets them a new serial number and writes the entire email for me. All I have to do is fill in the name and, and it’s done and it saves me every time I use that snippet. It saves me probably 10 minutes of time. [01:11:44] Okay. Five minutes, but still I use it pretty frequently. I like I could not live without TextExpander. [01:11:51] Christina: [01:11:51] no, I couldn’t either. And I, um, so obviously this, isn’t the thing that I have to do super regularly now all the way do you still have to do when I do [01:12:00] presentations and conferences, we’re doing it remotely. I still use it, but one of the ways. I really love to use like the scripting ability and other stuff would be. [01:12:07] So when I was doing Microsoft ignite the tour, um, one of the demos that I would do, cause I would do like the first year, it was an hour, the second year, it was 45 minutes. It was doing like this jam packed presentation on Azure fundamentals. And like there’s so much stuff that you’re going through there. [01:12:23] And one of the things that I would be doing would be kind of like a CLI demo and um, Although I like know the commands. It’s one of those things where, when you’re typing it into a box live, uh, you know, you could get something wrong. You don’t want to like run into an issue where you might create a VM the wrong way or whatever. [01:12:40] And so I like had a text expander snippet to just insert in not just the commands I needed, but the more important thing was I had a dummy SSH key created so that when I was going through the portal of creating my SSH key, it would insert it. Every time and, and it was great. It saved a ton of time. I ran into an [01:13:00] issue, but I was sort of saved cause there’s a Chrome version. [01:13:02] Um, uh, that had unfortunately come out by the time I needed this, where my main laptop was not working. And so I had to use someone else’s and then the issue is I’m like, well, shit. Like, what am I going to do? Cause I don’t have my snippets. Like if I don’t have that, like I don’t have. Like my SSH key and you know, like, what am I going to do? [01:13:22] So, but because there’s, it works in Chrome. Like I was able to, you know, bring that in and kind of sync it over, uh, and do it, which is really nice. But like you said, on Mac iOS, you know, you can use it with Apple scripts. You can have it call other scripts too, but it’s also cross-platform. And so the same, um, like plain tax stuff, or, uh, I guess if you were using JavaScript or something, sort of scripting will work [01:13:45] Brett: [01:13:45] JavaScript for automation stuff does work on iOS as well, which is awesome. Um, you can also, uh, in addition to just having, you know, uh, your, your repetitive text taking care of, uh, and, and [01:14:00] taking care of consistently without spelling errors, you can also personalize it by sticking in, uh, fill-ins. [01:14:06] Which let you, when you trigger the snippet, it pops up and it asks you to fill in a couple of fields and you can define what fields and what drop-downs are in this, in this popup. And then it customize your snippet for you. So you’re not sending the exact same thing to everybody and can make it very personalized. [01:14:26] Um, so. As, uh, as a special bonus for overtired listeners, you can get 20% off your first year of text expander by going to text expander.com/podcast. And you’ll learn everything you need to know about it, and you’ll save 20%. So I cannot highly enough recommend you go check this out. [01:14:53] Christina: [01:14:53] yeah, w plus one on this, like genuinely, uh, we thank thank them for sponsoring our show, but also this is one of those apps that I’ve paid for [01:15:00] four years and, uh, that I love and. [01:15:03] Brett: [01:15:03] would talk about them, even if they weren’t paying me. [01:15:06] Christina: [01:15:06] So what I, so what I genuinely like when people are always wanting to know, like one of my top five Mac apps, like this is always in my list because it’s one of those that I don’t know what to do without it, to the point that, like I said, I was installing that Chrome extension so that I could like use it in a demo. [01:15:24] Cause I was like, I don’t know, like what my commands are for certain things. Cause I just have it so highly automated, you know? [01:15:31] Brett: [01:15:31] Speaking of top five Mac apps, we don’t have time to get to it, but we’re definitely next week going to talk about how weird it is that GQ magazine put out like their list of indispensable Mac apps. And [01:15:44] Christina: [01:15:44] it’s good. No, I was looking at this now. Now I think, I think in fairness, this, this is, this is slightly important to say this was GQ UK. And the reason I say that is that I don’t know, like [01:15:56] Brett: [01:15:56] That’s like the difference between teen Vogue and Vogue. [01:15:59] Christina: [01:15:59] Yeah, I [01:16:00] kind of, I’m kind of feeling like the UK people are better. Maybe. I don’t know. Although it’s still Connie Nass actually. [01:16:04] So they didn’t license it. [01:16:06] Brett: [01:16:06] but I mean like PC magazine has put out lists like this that were [01:16:11] Christina: [01:16:11] Are so much worse. No. [01:16:13] Brett: [01:16:13] they picked the wrong apps. [01:16:15] Christina: [01:16:15] No. Well, this is what was shocking to me. I was like looking through this list and I was like, there is nothing on this list that I disagree with for having an inclusion. Like maybe there would be some apps that I would like put in place of others, but there’s [01:16:29] Brett: [01:16:29] included moon. Like moon is awesome for window management and no one ever mentions it in the larger publications. Like that’s [01:16:36] Christina: [01:16:36] I agree. I think they mentioned solver, um, which is like a solver solvers, like not an app people know, uh, net Newswire, which is back in which again, like the major publications don’t even mention. Um, yeah, no, this is like a fantastic list. Uh, Hazel also not [01:16:54] Brett: [01:16:54] Better touch tool. [01:16:57] Christina: [01:16:57] like the whole list. [01:16:58] This is genuinely like we [01:17:00] could have written this list and, and no one would have blinked and I they’ve have been like, yeah, that’s that’s what actual Mac [01:17:06] Brett: [01:17:06] Actually I think I have written that list. Maybe they read my blog. [01:17:10] Christina: [01:17:10] Clearly we’ll know. I mean, this is what was impressive to me about it. Cause like I’ve been in the long, but I’ll, I’ll go on a tangent here. [01:17:16] Like I’ve been in, you know, the content creation game asks of you. But I worked at like mainstream publications and especially at a place like Mashable, which is very mainstream. And although I’m incredibly proud of the work that I did there. And I look back in retrospect and I’m like, Holy shit, I got some nerdy, nerdy ass. [01:17:34] Shit and Mashable and I did, and I’m like shocked, like in retrospect, I look back I’m like, how in the hell did I convince people to let me do that? And then I think back I’m like, Oh yeah, there were battles. And, and it was hard for sometimes, but like I, and I’m, you know, nothing, if not persistent, but like, you know, we would have stuff that was, um, and this is how I personally gained credit. [01:17:58] Gained credibility, if not the whole [01:18:00] publication itself. Um, cause it didn’t continue after I left, but like, you know, I would, you know, really try to have really good stuff, but it was not the sort of content you would expect if you’re thinking like a Mashable. And so I look at something like this and I’m like, I know how these games work. [01:18:15] And like, this is something that somebody is assigned. Because it’s going to rank well on SEO, somebody is going to be searching, you know, best Mac apps and they want to show up in the results. They want to like juice it. I get it. So it’s, it’s one of those evergreen sort of utility posts, nothing wrong with it. [01:18:30] The thing is how most of the time it works is that you assign something like this and the writer usually doesn’t know a lot about. The subject area, because they’re usually an intern or they’re a junior writer. And so they just start Googling other lists and they rewrite from those lists. And usually you see the same kind of hodgepodge of let’s be honest, like not great applications listed. [01:18:57] And that’s because the list that rank well [01:19:00] are usually designed by companies who are trying to sell those apps, uh, [01:19:03] Brett: [01:19:03] that can afford, can afford all the SEO tricks. [01:19:07] Christina: [01:19:07] Exactly right. Rather than people who’ve actually used it. So I look at this list and I’m like, this is not that right. Like, like solver and moon are not part of those things. [01:19:17] Better touch tool. Like fantastic ally. This is, this is definitely from somebody who I like it reads reads to me is like somebody who’s actually used these. And it was like, this is my own workflow, which I appreciate, but was just shocked by because it’s in GQ. Which who knew? [01:19:34]Brett: [01:19:34] It’s cool stuff. All right. So we did talk about it. [01:19:38] Christina: [01:19:38] we did talk about it. [01:19:39] Brett: [01:19:39] fit it in, and now we’re, we’re still a tech show. [01:19:42] Christina: [01:19:42] We are still a tech [01:19:43] Brett: [01:19:43] can talk about Taylor Swift and Tori ammos and still be a tech show. That’s why we’ve proved. We have proved that we can be both. Yeah, [01:19:52] Christina: [01:19:52] we have multitudes. Also make sure you put your playlist in for [01:19:56] Brett: [01:19:56] my BPD playlist. That’s what it’s called BPD. [01:20:00] [01:20:00] Christina: [01:20:00] Yeah. I mean, if you’re, if you’re willing to, you can copy it and share it to another thing. If that’s what you, if you don’t want to share the actual one, but I want to listen [01:20:06] Brett: [01:20:06] I would be curious if you made a playlist called OCD, what would be on it? Make a playlist called OCD and [01:20:13] Christina: [01:20:13] I will. [01:20:15] Brett: [01:20:15] that fits your own personal disorder. [01:20:17]Christina: [01:20:17] Oh yeah, no, totally. Well, mine would just be like depressed depression. Um, it would be good, but no, actually that’s not a bad, that’s a good idea. I love playlists. I love making playlists so much. I’ve been working on one for my friend, Ricky for months and, um, I owe it to them and, and, uh, Ricky, I’m sorry that it’s delayed, but I will get it to you. [01:20:37] Uh, but, um, cause I made like a really good one after folklore came out. Uh, but before evermore dead where it was all songs that like were that mood because somebody wanted. Somebody who was like not a Taylor Swift fan who became a Taylor Swift fan after folklore. It was like, I want to listen to more stuff like this. [01:20:52] And so it’s really Taylor Swift heavy, but it also has some other things on it. It actually has some Elliot Smith on it. Uh, and, uh, Anson Tori [01:21:00] Amos, actually. So, [01:21:02] Brett: [01:21:02] you should share that one. [01:21:03] Christina: [01:21:03] actually I will, I was going to say, I’m going to pull that up right [01:21:06] Brett: [01:21:06] me a link. [01:21:07] Christina: [01:21:07] I will, I will put that in the Quip document, but uh, I’ll, I’ll have it an Apple music and on, um, Spotify, uh, because I’m one of those people are your Spotify person, right? [01:21:18] Yeah. Um, so, but yeah, I, I love making playlists. That’s one of my favorite things. So weirdly I don’t know if I have an OCD playlist except the art and making a playlist itself for me is a very OCD [01:21:32] Brett: [01:21:32] Yeah, they’re all OCD. [01:21:35] Christina: [01:21:35] totally will know. Cause the whole thing is like, I want sup usually to fit like a mood and a progression. [01:21:41] And like, when I, I used to make lists for my playlist, my mom and CDs for her all the time for like mother’s day or her birthday or whatever. And, you know, would often try to like, like a meet her, like at one, one year, which was one of my better ones, actually, all of music. I knew that she would like, but like was new music stuff that she would never [01:22:00] hear on the radio or anything. [01:22:01] And like I opened and closed it with the same song, but it was performed like. By different people. Um, you know, that’s the sort of OCD shit that I’ll do, you know, to try to like, have like the, the, you know, bookends of something. Yeah. [01:22:16] Brett: [01:22:16] All right. Well, I hope your, your eye fully recovers and it continues to be healthy after that. [01:22:24] Christina: [01:22:24] Yeah. Thank you. And, and honestly, I’m just glad, like I never thought that my laziness and not. Getting my like, cause, cause here’s the thing my prescription and I had ordered conducts beforehand, but I clearly hadn’t ordered enough if I had say ordered like six months worth of contacts in December, which I should have, I would have been, um, another year before I went to the eye doctor. And Hey, maybe nothing would have happened, but, um, in the, in retrospect I’m like super glad that my, uh, like laziness [01:23:00] forced me to have an emergency appointment at a Costco. [01:23:02] Brett: [01:23:02] yet another tale of laziness Pang off. [01:23:07] Christina: [01:23:07] Right. [01:23:07] Brett: [01:23:07] It’s a long list. [01:23:09] Christina: [01:23:09] It is [01:23:11] Brett: [01:23:11] well, Christina, get some sleep. [01:23:13] Christina: [01:23:13] get some sleep, Brett.

Overtired becomes the only tech show to really tackle the #FreeBritney movement. Plus E-ink tablet comparisons and some great apps. Because this is, ostensibly, a tech show. Sponsored By Ritual is a scientifically developed and tested multivitamin delivered to you monthly. Start your Ritual today and save 10% on your first 3 months at ritual.com/OVERTIRED. RemoteHQ, empowering teams to remote teams to work together as if they were in the same room. Visit remotehq.co/overtired to start your free 30-day trial, and get an additional 3 months free. Show Links Remarkable Kindle Paperwhite Kindle Oasis Kobo Onyx Books Note Air My Deep Guide – YouTube The Best 10.3" E-Ink Tablet: Remarkable 2 vs Boox Note Air vs Supernote A5X – YouTube The Tragedy of Britney Spears – Rolling Stone BetterTouchTool BetterSnapTool Moom MacUpdater Bunch Beta Ultimate Hacking Keyboard Acorn Retrobatch Homebridge Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Christina [00:00:00] Brett:Listening to over-tired. I’m Brett Terpstra here with Christina Warren. How’s it going, Christina? Christina:It’s going pretty good. How are you Brett? Brett:I I’m, I’m getting so good at these intros that it’s almost boring now. Christina:Right. You’re like feeling like I need to mess it up so that it can feel normal. Brett:I’m I’m sometimes when I’m more scattered. Like I’ll think the words through in my head, but then they’ll come out in a completely different order. It’s very flustering when that happens, which I believe leads to. That’s just good radio. Yeah know. Christina:Agreed. It is. It’s just good radio. Brett:So, so we have this topic, uh, I do, do you have any health corner updates? Christina:I don’t have any health corner updates. I was going to ask you because yeah, we have a topic that we’ve punted for like four weeks that we have to get to, but we have to also start with our like Brett slash Christina’s health corner stuff. Brett:yeah, like our core [00:01:00] segments Christina:that is our core Brett:that end the, who did Christina piss off this week segment. Christina:totally. Which, um, I don’t think is anybody so Brett:and I don’t really have a, uh, like my sleep has settled down. I haven’t like that whole like manic cycle a week thing chilled out. Haven’t had one, since we last talked, um, my sleep has been decent. I’ve been getting like seven hours a night. Which is it’s it’s enough to get through, but I’m definitely more, uh, relaxed and less anxious if I sleep for eight to eight and a half hours a night. So I’m just on the cusp of being like tired all day. Christina:Hence the name of the show. Brett:It’s it’s true. It’s true. Except I’m I’m like, I’m just tired, not over tired. Christina:So tired. We’ll get there. [00:02:00] Brett:Um, yeah. Yeah. So, so, uh, this topic we’ve been punting on because it’s not like, uh, it’s, it’s not an inflammatory or divisive topic for most people and it’s, it’s not the most exciting thing we’ve had to talk about over the last few months, It is something that you have invested some time in. So let’s talk about this state of eating tablets. Christina:Yes, it’s something I’ve invested, not just time but money. And, uh, now obviously that could be a lot of things that have invested money in because as we discussed before, that’s how I’ve been dealing with the whole last year is just to blindly buy things. Um, I don’t eat my feelings, I buy them. So, um, I’m not sure what’s more unhealthy to be totally honest. Uh, anyway, Brett:bill. Christina:I mean, yeah, but like, I don’t have any debt, so it’s, I don’t know. Um, I also don’t have a house. So, you know, it, [00:03:00] it is what it is. Uh, yeah, so tablets. So this is an interesting thing. I hadn’t really thought about the state of, of eating tablets in a really long time. And a couple of years ago, I guess, close to four years ago now a tablet called the remarkable came out and it, along with another tablet. Tony, we’re kind of this next wave of eating tablets that were more than just, um, and an eating for, for, uh, listeners who might not be. Aware is the technology that basically it’s what Kendall uses and other e-readers, and it is a fairly low refresh display, all that they’re getting faster that lets you have a more paper like experience. So it’s really crisp. It’s very readable, especially in sunlight or direct light. Although some of these, um, tablets like the Kendall, um, uh, paper light and or paper white rather, and the Oasis and, and other, um, uh, Uh, th I think like [00:04:00] kobu has a couple of like half front lights too, so you can read them in the dark. But the whole idea is that they’re easy on your eyes. They’re crisp and high resolution, and they have really good battery life. And so a lot of people really prefer them. To like reading on a phone or an iPad because the screen is better on your eyes, but there’s this secondary kind of market for ink other than just readers, which is for note taking tablets. So a company called remarkable, I think they’re Swedish. They might be finished, but they’re, or they’re based in Europe, um, came out with something about four years ago called the remarkable one. Sony also had a tablet and these were fairly large, like 10 inch tablets that would actually let you write on them. And then the whole idea was to kind of recreate the writing on paper feeling so really low latency using IE ink so that the idea would be, you could write just like you were writing on paper, but it’s digital. You [00:05:00] could use OCR to convert your handwritten notes to text. Or to search things and, um, you know, you could annotate, uh, like, like PDFs and, and stuff like that. So I was always sort of interested in the remarkable tablet when that first came out, but it was really expensive. It had some missing features. I just didn’t quite know if I wanted to make the investment. So actually in 2018, I wound up getting a, um, What did I get? I, I got an iPad pro 11 inch instead with the Apple pencil, which was more expensive, but I was like, you know what, that’s going to be a better device for me. Fast forward to last year, uh, 20, 28, it was March, um, remarkable, announced their remarkable two tablet. And they were like, it’s going to be sleeker. It has better battery life. It has kind of an updated screen. It has even lower latency. And it’s going to be out in like, I think the first we’re saying June. And so I pre-ordered one. And, um, it [00:06:00] didn’t come out in June. It didn’t come out in July. It didn’t come out in August. It didn’t come out September. It didn’t come out in October. I wound up finally getting it, I think like the first week of November. So this was now, you know, more than six months since I, I pre-ordered it. Um, and at that point, you know, like I’d already paid for it. Like I, you know what I mean? Like, I’d put it on the credit card. I had already paid it off. It was kind of like, okay, whatever, I’ll get this thing. And I got it. And I liked it, but it’s fairly limited in some of the stuff you can do for it there. Um, it’s really designed primarily as a single task device. So it was really designed for people who really take a lot of notes and really want to recreate that like handwriting on paper experience. Yeah. You can, you can read PDFs or, or EPUBs on it. It has, you know, a pretty terrible e-reader built into it. Yeah. You can kind of transfer their documents in and out, but it’s really designed to be. Like a note taking device, like that’s really what it’s about. And they ha they, they try to have like a very Apple-like [00:07:00] experience. Um, but they’ve been like advertising themselves all over Instagram and Facebook and stuff. And so they’ve been pretty popular from what I can understand. Um, I think that they’re like, if you try to order from the remarkable to now, it’s a couple of weeks out to get an order, but they’re not, it’s not like, uh, you know, uh, the, the month. Like the month long waits that it was. But when I got there, by the time I got the remarkable to another device had come out called the, um, books, um, the Onyx books, note air, and this is, um, Onyx or books. I think books is the, is the device name. And then annex is the brand name is a Chinese company and they use E ink. But. Rather than using kind of a customized Linux kernel, which is what remarkable uses. They are actually using Android as a base. And they, um, have many of the same features as the remarkable, but because it uses Android, you can use [00:08:00] other Android apps with it too. So you can side load. That Kendall app or the Kobo app or audible, or, you know, other, um, applications. So you can do more things with it. You can SSH into it more easily. You can transfer stuff to Dropbox or one drive or, or whatever more easily, but it also has built in writing functionality so that you can do like the OCR and the, um, note taking stuff in and transfer things over. And so. They launched like literally right as the remarkable too was I was getting, they launched, um, the, um, Onyx books, note air, and that was priced about the same as the remarkable two tablets, actually a little bit less, I think, um, once all kind of the accessories were involved, but on the face of it, a more powerful device. And so I went ahead and I ordered that one too. And right. So I got that one and then Onyx actually reached out to me and they sent me the, um, [00:09:00] Books, max Lummi, which is very similar to the note air, except it is a 13 inch device rather than 10 inches. So it’s really big and it’s more powerful. Like it’s, it’s got more Ram, it’s got, uh, you know, a faster processor and they sent that to me. And so I’ve been reviewing that and, um, I’ve also been reviewing, you know, the, the books, note air, and the remarkable too, which I purchased and, um, You know, I, I talked a little bit about this on rocket, but I can talk more in depth about it here. And I’d love you to ask me questions and, and things that, you know, you would want to know about this if you’re interested at all. But, um, this is a really niche product area, like, but it’s also kind of cool. Like I’m not gonna lie. Like there’s something like the latency, um, on the remarkable too. The thing I’ll say about it is, is that, although I think the software is limited and kind of buggy and. Not really as robust as it should [00:10:00] be. Like it, the hardware is really good, but it’s a really let down by the software. And I don’t think they’ve invested enough in the software. Um, but the experience of writing on it is to use upon remarkable. Like it, it is a better experience than writing with my iPad pro like Brett:so. Christina:does, it does feel like writing on paper. Brett:Are you a person who writes on paper, Christina:Typically? No, no, but I do have to take notes and I do like the idea of sometimes, maybe Kirby, my ADHD, to be totally honest, by doing more note taking stuff. And typically the reason I don’t write on paper is because I don’t then want to have to like convert it into something that I can use digitally. Like that’s my big thing, right? Is that I’m going to need to access whatever I’m writing on paper. Like digitally. So I used to have a bunch of mole, skins and other stuff, and like, um, and jot calendars and planners and things like that. And I really liked the idea, but I was like, I can’t access this, you know, [00:11:00] anyway, and I, over the years I’ve like looked at things like there was like a pin that would sync with Evernote and, you know yeah. And, and, and stuff like that. And like, you know, Brett:paper that you could like yeah. Yeah. Christina:Yeah, exactly. And, and like, that was okay, but you know, like that’s still requires a whole other kind of level of, I don’t know, like for me I’m such a, uh, digital, um, person that, uh, I like the act of writing and I think it’s important for me as bad as my handwriting is, but I think it can be better for my, for my memory and for my attention span, but I like need it digitized. Brett:Yeah, I do buy that. The act of writing on its own, just like handwriting, something out makes you remember it more than typing it and way more than just listening to it. Like, for me, that’s true, but I hate writing so much. Like I don’t write. I write so little that my hand cramps [00:12:00] just signing my name. Christina:yeah. Brett:is so not used to writing. Christina:Yeah, that’s how I am too. That’s how I am too. So it’s been like a, a, an interesting, um, I guess, journey to have to kind of teach myself to write again, if that makes any sense. Brett:So how does the, something like the remarkable, how does it solve the, so, like, I had a bunch of mole skins, and I was pretty good for a while about, uh, back when I had like client meetings and stuff. If I just scribbled on. Uh, notepad while the meeting was happening, I would remember the meeting better, but I would get annoyed that I couldn’t search. So I started using, like, I bought a, it was made by mole skin, but it was really just a folder and it could hold index cards. So I would use one index card per meeting Christina:Oh, that’s smart. Brett:scan that index card when I got back and I’d put it in Evernote, which then would make my handwriting [00:13:00] moderately searchable. Um, like the lack of searchability is what killed mole skins for me. Does the remote markable allow, does it OCR and search your text? Christina:Yes. Yeah. Um, the, the, the books does a better job than the remarkable does, but yet they both do it. Um, I like the books better to be totally honest. Uh, I think the remarkable is like one of those things where they have a really good, like. Experience from kind of like the factory onward. Um, and part of me would kind of want to root for them to be like, Oh, you know, they’re, they, they they’ve, you know, kind of pioneered a lot of this stuff, but, but to be totally honest, the book stuff has done a better job with it. Um, but yeah, they both do that. And, and in fact, the book stuff can even do like offline OCR stuff. You have to be connected to the internet to do those CR. And the search stuff on, um, the, uh, remarkable too, but yeah, it’ll let you search that stuff, which is really, really nice. And so that’s one of the reasons why I’m using it, the downside with both of [00:14:00] them, um, is that if you use an app like OneNote or Evernote or something like you can’t integrate directly into that without importing those notes into, you know, one of those systems, um, even though. The, the books that the note air and the max Lumi, both work with Android. Those, uh, note taking applications have not been optimized in any way, shape or form for E ink. So you cannot use those apps themselves to take notes. So if that’s what you want, like that’s not gonna happen. You are really better off with an iPad or using, um, like if, if you’re a windows user using, you know, um, one of the pen, um, You know, systems like a surface or something which works really well with one note. But what you can do is you can import like as a PDF or as something else, you know, the file into your OneNote notebook, and then you can search it so you can still work with it that way. It’s just not one of those things where like, you can open up a OneNote page and start writing. You’re [00:15:00] going to open up a page in another app and then, you know, later like import it so that you can have access to it. Brett:pull me over and tickle me pink Christina:What’s that Brett:and would actually make me buy one of these just for the novelty of it. It could. Uh, store marked down versions of my handwritten notes in Dropbox Christina:I know. Brett:writer and NBA ultra could access them. Christina:I know. I know. And, and that, from what I, from what I can tell, at least so far, there’s been no, like conversion to Mark down, although. On both of them. I think it might be slightly easier on the remarkable, because at least extensively their stuff is more open source, although, you know? Brett:What if a PD. If a PDF is saved with an OCR layer, uh, with searchable texts, I have tools that can convert that to Mark down. So if it were store, if like those PDFs were stored, In some kind of accessible sync system, [00:16:00] whether it’s a one drive or Google drive or Dropbox, somewhere that like Hazel could pick up these PDFs. I could S I could pull the markdown texts out and put it into my very plain text notes. That would be cool. Christina:Yeah, you could do that with the books. So we might actually want to try that. What, what I could do is I could, um, give you access to, um, a folder and you could like test it just to see if, if it’ll do what you need it to do. Brett:I want access to your diary, Christina:Yeah. That’s exactly it. You be, you be, you be so bored by most of the notes that I take, but, um, dear diary, I had to podcast Brett today. It was pretty terrible. Brett:He is the worst. Oh my God. Gag me with a spoon. Christina:there is, um, there’s this guy on YouTube. Um, his name is, um, um, uh, Valeria and he does this thing called, um, my deep guide. And he does very in depth, like comparisons and like breakdowns about how all of these things work. And so if [00:17:00] you want to know everything about what the latency is like, he has cameras set up to capture like every millisecond of like what it looks like when you’re like. You know, putting the, the pen down to the screen, if you want to know like how the different software features work, like he has all of that stuff. So we’ve got a link to, to him, um, down, uh, in our show notes. Um, he’s great. Um, I do not have that kind of time to be totally honest. Uh, but I did enjoy like when I was waiting for my things to arrive, um, I did watch his videos and I got a lot out of it from them. Um, It’s cool though, because you can create like templates and it’s not as easy as it, as it should be. Again, the remarkable I hate to, like, I’m not trying to dog on it because I spent a lot of money on it and I might sell it. I don’t know what I’m going to do with it, but like, it’s a really nice piece of hardware. It’s just, the software is not there. Whereas the book stuff is really nice. And the max Lummi and the node air are essentially the same device. It’s just the max Lumi [00:18:00] is gigantic. And the note air is, is like, You know, 10 inches. So it was basically kind of the difference between an iPad, um, uh, pro 13 and an iPad pro 11. The one nice thing about the bigger size I will say is that you can view a PDF without any sort of like having to reframe or move anything at all. Like for technical papers or stuff like it’s going to basically be one-to-one. Um, On the screen, which is really nice if you’re looking at like manuals or technical papers or other sorts of documents, like it’s really, really nice. So if you’re somebody who annotates a lot and reads a lot of that kind of stuff, uh, the bigger screen is really, really nice for that. Um, I th I find for my own use cases, the smaller screen, probably as a little bit better, just because, um, The the big size would certainly make it less portable, although who’s traveling now anyway, so it doesn’t really matter. But, um, [00:19:00] but the, the, the max Lumi is, is nice. And the screens, like I will say there is like refresh and like latency things that you can use at least on the, um, on the books devices. And, and I think people have created hacks to do this on the remarkable as well. People created like second screen sort of experiences where they can either, um, broadcast their screen. From those tablets, you know, to their computer, or they could use it as a secondary monitor. You can do that. It’s not a great experience. It’s going to have kind of a slower refresh thing. Like, you know, these, these things are a lot faster than they used to be, but it’s still not an LCD display. You know what I mean? Like the refresh is not there, but for, you know, for people who are primarily dealing with notes or if you draw and I don’t draw, but if you draw. Um, people seem to like them, the pens are like, you know, they, they use like Wacam technology and so they have multiple pressure points and you can, you know, use different. Like if you buy different nibs, it can give you a different feel or experience in like they’re pressure [00:20:00] sensitive. And the software has different types of brush styles and stuff. So you can, you can do pretty advanced stuff. Um, like I would say that if you’re looking for like a, an all around device, an iPad is still going to be better. Right. But if you’re somebody who takes a lot of notes, likes that experience. Annotates a lot, um, is looking for another toy to kind of like geek out with they’re definitely worth a look. And they’re also, there’s been some movement in E ink in color Inga readers, um, which is getting exciting. And so, um, I think we’re gonna be getting some of those into purview, uh, soon. So I’ll have more updates on that. Cause that actually is kind of interesting thing. Like, especially for people who might, people who want to read manga, people who want to do other stuff, Brett:work as readers as Christina:Oh 100%, 100%. Brett:in which like I w w in what ecosystem, Christina:Um, so, so, so the books, you could do it with anything, like, it [00:21:00] literally has an easy way for you to install Google play so you could install and it has Bluetooth and stuff. Built-in so like I have audible and I have Kendall on it, but I could also have stuff in it from, you know, kobu or, um, I don’t think Barnes noble has, I don’t know if they have a reader anymore, but any of those, um, if you’re buying stuff from I books, I don’t know. There’s probably a way to remove the DRM. Yeah, I get it. It’s called books. I don’t know. I’ve never, I haven’t bought anything from it in a decade. I buy everything from Kendall. Um, Brett:up on, on the iBookstore a long time ago. Christina:same, same. Brett:still have books for sale there. If anyone’s looking. Christina:Right by them, right? Yeah, no, I, uh, yeah, it’s not, it’s not what I use. I use, I use Kendall Kendall, one that, um, you, if you want to use that on the remarkable, you would need to strip the DRM and then import them in. But on the books, it’s like a completely seamless native process. They even have like an app store that comes installed on it. That has an older version of the Kindle app that you can install. But yeah. Like, [00:22:00] it’s very easy to install Google play services and install the latest version of the Kendall app and it’ll work just like any other Kendall you’ve ever had. Um, which is, which is great. Brett:can I tell you where the iBookstore failed me? Christina:Yes, Brett:So the iBookstore when you, when you’re an iBox author, it lets you embed HTML. Uh, interactive HTML. So I got excited about this idea. I, with my ex-wife wrote a children’s book and my very talented brother illustrated it. Uh, and the goal like the illustrations were all done in pieces on paper, but in pieces so that I can make a parallax, uh, display of each illustration. So as you tilted the iPad, It would like it moved as if it were three dimensional and it was really cool in prototype. But when I got into actually [00:23:00] building it and I books author, the way that they handle embedded HTML made it a horrible experience. And I’m still sitting on a pile of. Great illustrations and not too bad of a story. Uh, I, if a publisher ever approached me, I would just flatten them and, and we would make a print book out of it, but I’m not going to go shop it around because I felt like my, my dream of the kind of interactive children’s book kind of died there. Christina:That’s a shame. Yeah, I’ve heard a lot. And I think they actually have retired the ebook or I books, author. Um, app and I think now they’re like just use pages, Brett:Right. Christina:which, you know Brett:Yeah. Well, their stuff for like educational texts, they did, they, they put all their eggs into the, uh, educational textbook. Kind of idea like that was where all of their innovative innovation went. [00:24:00] I, I don’t know that it ever caught on Christina:Uh, I don’t think that it did. Um, I think that. I don’t know. I feel like, yeah, I feel like they put all their eggs in that basket. It I’m sure that the, um, was it the DOJ? I can’t remember what agency it was, but they had to settle the, the price fixing lawsuit. Do you remember that? Brett:No. Christina:Yeah. So Apple was accused of price fixing basically, um, They wanted to have the prices be, uh, like a minimum price, which was a higher basically, I guess then maybe what, like Amazon or some other places were selling. And they were accused of, I guess, working in concert with the publishers to raise the price on eBooks and they were found guilty of this. They had to settle or maybe, I don’t think they were found guilty. I don’t remember what it was. Anyway. They settled. They ended up having to, you know, pay out. A couple hundred million dollars in the settlement. I remember this cause I wound up getting like $80 or something or a hundred dollars or something in [00:25:00] an ebook credits from Amazon. Um, and, uh, and it wasn’t even like I bought a lot of I book stuff. I think what happened was that Amazon and other people had argued that because of what Apple was doing, they had to sell. Things at higher rates because there’ve been some sort of collusion. I don’t remember all the details. It’s been a decade, but they, they got in trouble, um, uh, for, for price fixing. Um, and so I think that when that happened, I at least, uh, Yeah. Yeah. This was, uh, a price fixing thing. Um, the United States versus Apple was a U S antitrust case in which the court held that Apple Inc conspired to raise the price of eBooks in violation of the Sherman act. The suit filed in April of 2012, alleged that Apple Inc, and five book publishing companies conspired to raise and fix the prices for eBooks in violation of section one of the Sherman antitrust. In fact, the book publishers are hatchet, a Harper, Collins, publishers, [00:26:00] Macmillan, penguin, and Simon and Schuster, uh, ironically pink when, um, uh, uh, and Simon and Schuster now the same company, uh, along with random house. So it’s big four, but, uh, uh, only Apple proceeded to trial while the publisher defendant settled their claims. So Apple went to trial, the publisher settled, and then they were, um, uh, found guilty and. Um, yeah, the, uh, the district court ruled that Apple was guilty of conspiring to raise retail prices of eBooks and scheduled a trial in 2014 to determine damages and then Apple settled, um, the, that the case out of court, uh, while they were still appealing. And they basically, you know, had to, had to pay $450 million. So I think when that happened and that, that, you know, it was brought in 2012, which was only a couple of years into. The program. I don’t know my distinct sense and I could be wrong. Was that Apple kind of stopped caring about eBooks in any way whatsoever after they had to pay [00:27:00] that amount of money for that, Brett:I don’t, I feel like that’s not enough money to really, if Apple was driven to own a market, that amount of money would not deter them. I feel like there was Christina:Well, yeah, Brett:lack of enthusiasm that kind Christina:Well, I think it was probably both, right. Like I think that it’s probably lack of enthusiasm. They weren’t overtaking Kendall and there wasn’t a way for them to, I think that I, and I think that the, the course argument was that the way, like the government’s argument was that they were trying to, um, own the market by. Working in collusion with the big publishers to raise prices. And that was what they were trying to do. Cause they were basically like, okay, we don’t want to get into this, this game with Amazon where Amazon sells things at lower prices than us and we can’t win. So we’re going to work across the board and convince publishers to sell everything at a certain price. And that will, um, uh, [00:28:00] force us to be a more even playing ground. And then we can use our ecosystem and our other things to try to. You know, get a bigger slice of the market. I think that’s what that, that’s what the government’s argument was. Um, you’re right. $450 million. I don’t think would be enough to deter them. But I think at that point, like Amazon’s lead probably only widened and like they would have had to. Do the same thing Amazon, which was doing, which was like selling stuff below cost as lost leaders. Although ironically, this is how it always happens. Amazon now has minimum prices set by publishers and, you know, their prices have generally gone up, um, than, than what they were a decade ago, which I mean, I’m not opposed to let you know writers get paid, but, um, I think it was probably a combination of both them not already winning and then, okay, well, we tried and we got caught up in this multi year, like, [00:29:00] you know, antitrust case. So Brett:All right. I, yeah, I got lost. Christina:that’s fine. That’s Brett:that. I did that thing where Christina:did that thing where like I was talking and you just totally drunk, zoned out. Brett:I started thinking about the next thing. Christina:Yeah, let’s talk about the next thing. Brett:Oh, do we have to though? Okay. So yeah, we, we do Christina:no, no, no. Let’s talk about, let’s talk about like your nerdy stuff and then, then we’ll, then we’ll get to Britney noble. Brittany will be kind of a dessert. Brett:Oh man. Christina:I mean, we can talk about it. I don’t whatever order you want to go in. I don’t care. Brett:I’m setting a 10 minute timer. Christina:Okay. Perfect. Brett:how long we have to talk about Brittany Spears. All right. Starting now. Christina:Okay. Did you watch framing Brittany? Brett:I watched the first, like, I, I think I got almost half an hour into it before. I, I didn’t want to watch it anymore. Uh, it turned out, like [00:30:00] I mentioned to L last night that, uh, I was supposed to watch this for the sake of this show and, and, uh, I, I did, I, wasn’t going to push the point because I, I, I don’t care about Brittany. Um, But, and, and she was, she was like, now we’re going to watch, you know, uh, the office and Frazier are our fallback shows. And then this morning she’s like, well, I got some time you should watch a little bit of this, this thing. So you’re ready for your show. So we did just this morning, sit down and watch it. And she said, she said, I’m sorry, we didn’t watch this last night. It’s actually interesting. Christina:Right. I’m glad that she said that. Thank you L. Brett:It’s it’s moderately interesting. Tell me, give me the highlight. Christina:Okay. So this is, um, a production that the New York times, um, is doing. They did a documentary on Hulu. That is basically it’s called framing [00:31:00] Britney Spears. And by framing, they really mean how she’s been framed in the media, like her positioning, not like framing for a crime. And it’s kind of a look at her. Immediate image over the course of her career, which is now over two decades and really over the last, um, nearly 15 years where she’s been under this conservatorship, which I think we’ve talked about on this show before, uh, in 2008 court’s rule, basically that she is, you know, needs to be under some sort of conservatorship. And so her father has been in charge of her finances and, um, like her medical care and other things. And this obviously. Brett:that Christina:Because she’d had like a series of very high profile, like public breakdowns. Like if people remember she shaved her head, she attacked the paparazzi. Uh, there was an incident where she barricaded herself in her house with her kids. When our kids were very young and she had to be admitted into a hospital, [00:32:00] she was on a couple of 51 50 stays. Um, her. In addition to that she was doing things that were I, and I’ve got a link to it in that, that I put down there, um, a, a rolling stone article that came out in, um, uh, February of, um, February 21st, 2008. So this is now. 14 years ago called the tragedy of Brittany Spears, um, from, uh, Vanessa , who is a fantastic writer. And it’s, it’s the, it’s actually really interesting to read. And I think it’s interesting to read that while you watch the documentary, because it puts into context, in my opinion, why the conservatorship happened? Like she was it’s it’s unfortunate when we look back on it now, because all of us, and I certainly was one of these people, um, treated it as like. If not just an outright joke as like a thing to gawk at, and to just kind of like, we were all kind of, our mouths were gaping, what was happening. Like she was [00:33:00] dating members of the paparazzi. She was acting 100% erratically, like. Mentally unwell. And in like in, in hindsight, like just really just unhinged behavior and, um, you know, it was around the time that Anna Nicole Smith died and, and there’d been kind of a lot of, you know, this was like the height of the paparazzi kind of culture and celebrity culture thing. Um, And I, I think that there was this fear and I don’t think it was unfounded, uh, from her family that she was going to die. Like, I really think that they thought that she was, she was on her way to either, you know, um, self-destructing in a way that would, that would lead with, with her death. Um, and so she was put under this conservatorship, which is a really. Rare thing to happen. It usually happens with older people or other stuff, but she was put under this conservatorship and, um, Where her father had been absent from her life for up until that point, really, he had been very [00:34:00] active, you know, kind of took control of things. And, um, within a couple of years, you know, she was able to perform again. She was, you know, putting out albums. She did her successful biggest residency and things seem to be on the up and up. And then a couple of years ago when she was going to be announcing her second Vegas residency, Things seem to kind of go off the rails. She seemed to meet at least to meet and not be quite with it anymore. Um, they ended up canceling the residency by her saying that her father was sick and that she was gonna be focusing on that. Then it turned out that she’d been in treatment at some facility in Los Angeles, um, that, that she shared like later on. And then it gets, in my opinion, this is where it gets, which is to me all, all signs and like rumors were that maybe she was no longer being med compliant or whatever the case may be. And then it gets to where I feel a little bit uncomfortable, which is that she had fans who had like a [00:35:00] podcast dedicated to her Instagram, who someone left them a voicemail message claiming to have worked as a paralegal for, um, her, uh, You know, uh, the, the lawyers who represented her surface or ship or whatever, um, and basically said that she was desperate to get out of the conservatorship, that she was not a control of anything in her life that she didn’t want it that way. And it, you know, basically alleging that she’s all been a prisoner, um, you know, in and has no control over anything. Um, she’s now brought to the court like her, her father was temporarily removed as conservator. And somebody else was kind of put in his place. It’s like a temporary thing. Cause he’d had some health problems. There was also an altercation that he had with one of her sons. And I think that the, her ex-husband who we all made fun of K fed, but real talk. I think he’s actually proven himself to be a pretty good father. And he’s been the one consistent parental force in those kids’ lives. Uh, I think filed a restraining order against the dad or some shit [00:36:00] anyway. Uh, the, the, the long, the short of it is, is that she has been petitioning the court to remove him as conservator and to put someone else in charge, um, of her finances and other things. And in, in, um, November the court ruled that they were not going to make a decision at that time about his role as conservator, but they did appoint this bank to also be responsible for, um, her, her wealth, which at this point is now like over $60 million. Um, But, but she has all these fans now who are, have started this hashtag free Brittany movement, where they actively like, want her out from under the conservatorship. And they actively like are, you know, saying that like, you know, she should be free and this and that, and this is where I’m conflicted. This is where I would, this is kind of why I wanted to talk to you about it. I have no problem. Saying and even thinking like her father is probably not the right person to be in charge of things. I think that he’s [00:37:00] probably should not be the conservator, especially if that’s what she’s saying. Well, I have a problem with though, is there seems to be this, like, I think kind of horrible message that her fans are positioning, which is that Brittany’s completely okay. And is completely aware of everything that’s happening. And is this like prisoner. And I, I don’t think that’s true. I think that Brittany is really sick and something happened to her in her early twenties, which is not uncommon for people that have mental health breaks and, and no, no like, like people like are diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar and, and other things like it’s a very common thing. I think something like that happened. I’m not a doctor. I’m not going to try and make any sort of diagnosis. It’s none of my business, but reading that Vanessa . Article and rethinking back about what happened in that times. Those are not behaviors of somebody who is okay. And it, it went beyond just drug use, right? Like some of the [00:38:00] behaviors were just like completely out of control. And maybe you could, you could, you know, shock some of it up to the same thing. But some of it was seriously looking like, you know, somebody who something was happening to them. And I don’t know, I’m, I’m not super okay with the idea that it’s like, We think she’s sitting, that’s hidden messages in her Instagram, which okay. That’s, that’s insane. And, and, and, and we don’t like her father. And so we think that she should have control over everything when it’s like, I don’t know if Brittany’s okay. I don’t think we’ve ever talked about whether Brittany is okay or not. I don’t think as a culture, like, what does it say when our pop princess might be like mentally unwell? Like, what does that mean? Right. Like. Brett:be fair. Um, from CEO’s to pop stars, like people in, uh, famous people in general, I have, if not [00:39:00] more, they have an equal amount of, of mental illness. And I, I don’t feel like that’s. In any way, disqualifying on its own, uh, the fact that she endangered children, or it sounds like she may have endanger children. That’s that’s, that’s a court matter for sure. Um, like I don’t think her mental health is okay. People are going to diagnose, we tried to diagnose Taylor Swift once. Like, I don’t know if you remember that it was actually the title of an episode where we have no Goldwater rule. We can say, Christina:no, absolutely. Brett:we can say she’s not, well, I think the only part of it having seen what I’ve seen, which isn’t much the only part of it that really bugs me is that this is, uh, our time’s up. This I’ll give you another minute. Um, this is, uh, this is a topic that people. Uh, really feel the [00:40:00] need to rally and protest and walk around on the street. Carrying signs. I feel like there are just more important things in the world. Christina:Yeah, no, I think there are more important things to the world. I think the reason people say this though, is because she’s the symbol, right? Like she’s Brittany Spears, Brett:They did, there were a couple of quotes, the people talking about what she had meant to them. Uh, that she’s the one that made it okay to, to grow up gay. She made it okay to come from the situations they came from. And I get that it’s important. Like that kind of representation in the media. It can be very meaningful to people and very valuable. Uh, and so I, I can understand. Being willing to walk around the street with a big sign for that. I’m a person who, uh, doesn’t even show up for protest for things I do care about. So it’s not easy for me to fathom, petitioning for a pop star as wellbeing. Christina:Yeah, no, look, [00:41:00] my, my very unpopular opinion is I think the free Brittany people are nuts. And I think that they’re actively harmful that said, I do think that the issues of the conservatorship and like whether her father should be in control of her money and whether there should be an outsider involved, I think are valid. And like, Brett:be Christina:I mean, I think that there should be like, she, she wanted the court appointed person who was her, who was her temporary conservator she’d wanted that to be permanent. I think that would be fair. Right. Um, like I do feel like there is something to be said, like, cause we don’t know what the deals are. And like they interviewed somebody who was briefly tried to be her lawyer who tried to petition the court for something. And the court, the judge told him, I’ve seen some like mental health analysis that you’re not allowed to see. And that leads me to believe that there was something so severe that she is not capable of making the decision to hire counsel. She is not capable of doing that. The counter-argument that people have. And, and I think this is a valid one to consider is okay. If she’s not capable of making those [00:42:00] decisions, then why can she, you know, tour and do these shows? I, that’s not an invalid thing to say, and maybe she should never tour again. Maybe she should never perform again. That said, like, I also don’t think, you know, people who’ve, who’ve seen her in interviews and I’ve seen her perform and I’ve seen her do other things. I’m just going to be real. She hasn’t seen completely with it. Like she hasn’t seemed completely connected to. You know, like something’s still seemed off. I’m trying to be really careful here. I don’t want to like be offensive and I don’t want to, I don’t want somebody to discover this one day and try to be like, Oh, you’re, you’re calling her crazy. I don’t know what the hell is wrong with her. Like, I used to be somebody who, like, I was desperate to figure out what, like what the fuck was wrong with Britney Spears. It’s not my business, but I do feel deeply like something’s not okay. And I become worried with the idea that we’re like, Ignoring that back just to focus on like, Oh, she’s become this prisoner. And it’s like, no, like courts typically don’t get involved in these sorts of [00:43:00] situations unless something is really, really wrong. And maybe I’m just completely naive, but I don’t believe that like the Los Angeles superior court would like. Actively collude, which is kind of like, it seems like people are saying like, against her so that her father of all people, we be responsible also there’s been no like proof or, or any sort of allegation whatsoever that like her money has been mismanaged at all. Like if anything. Yeah. And we’re, Brett:uh, Christina:saying I wanted to talk about it though. Cause just cause I think it’s interesting to think about like, I don’t know, we don’t talk about this. Like we don’t talk about the idea that like, what if one of our biggest like pop icons is like very sick and what does that mean? Brett:What does it Christina:And how do we deal with that? Brett:Speaking of wellbeing, do you want to talk about ritual? Christina:I do want to talk about virtual. This is actually a [00:44:00] perfect segue. Brett:thought so, too. Christina:This episode is brought to you by ritual, right? You may be surprised to learn that typical multivitamins can contain sugars, synthetic fillers, artificial. Colorants not to mention animal byproducts like sheep’s wool and gelatin from hubs and hides, but ritual. Isn’t your typical multivitamin rituals. Clean vegan-friendly formula is made with key nutrients informs your body can actually use no shady extras. All of our shovels nutrients come in bioavailable forms that your body can actually use. It’s also non GMO, gluten, and allergen-free. I love the convenience of vegetable. My vitamins show up at my doorstep every month. And all I have to do is pop two in the morning. And I know that I filled my, uh, nutrient nutrient gap in my diet and I have many, many nutrient gaps in my diet. It’s super, super convenient. Virtual multivitamins are delivered to your door every month with reshipping always, and you can start snooze [00:45:00] or cancel your subscription anytime. And if you don’t love ritual within your first month, they’ll even refund your first order. You deserve to know what’s in your multivitamin. And that’s why ritual is offering our listeners 10% off during your first three months. Visit ritual.com/overtired. To start your ritual today. Brett:Yay. Do you like how? I, I, I, I made an error in the sponsor read. And had you say forms, your body can actually use twice, like within a sentence of each other? Christina:I did. And I noticed that and I was like, okay, I’ve just, I’ve just read that twice. It’s a little repetitive, but it’s okay. Ritual is great though. You won’t be repetitive. As long as you take your vitamins. Brett:Okay. We’re not allowed to make any health Christina:I know I was going to say, I was like, I’m not, I was actually about to add a disclaimer, making asterisks. Christina is making no claims whatsoever. You may still be repetitive despite taking your vitamins, making no claims there. Brett:Yeah. You might still have [00:46:00] OCD. Christina:Yeah, you might. You might still be ADHD and OCD and rambling. Yep. Brett:so I, uh, back when they first announced the developer toolkit, where Apple would ship you a Silicon at a Mac mini for, for developers to start testing, like right after they announced, uh, the, the, the new chips, um, I, I stupidly. I thought they were selling me a machine for $500 and I jumped on it, uh, read the fine print after I had hit purchase Christina:Oh, no. Brett:the fine print that said, Oh, and you’ll have to send this back. So basically for the last few months I’ve been renting, uh, a nice Mac mini and for what I got out of it, it was not worth [00:47:00] $500, but. Then Apple sent out there, the notice that it was going to be time to return it soon. And it came with the promise of a $200 certificate that you could use towards buying your own. And, uh, I was like, okay, I recouped a little bit of, you know, cause I’m going to get, I’m going to get a Mac mini. I like the new ones. Um, Then the next morning they said, Hey, we got a lot of feedback about that $200 certificate and we hear you. So we’re making it $500 and you can keep the machine for a few more months. So I’m good. I’m happy. Christina:Yeah, no, I was thinking about she, when that happened, I was like, Oh, this will be, this will make bread happy. Yeah. I think that, um, They, uh, they got blow back because it wasn’t necessary. It wasn’t just like the, the amount of, of the credit. Although I think for some people that was part of it, it was the fact that they were like, [00:48:00] Oh yeah, you have to use this by May 31st. And people were like, yeah, you’re going to announce new chips at WWDC. We know this, we know how you work. What the hell? Like you’re telling me, like, I have to use this and I have to use this now. So I think it’s, that was a really good, um, like. Like elegant on their part. So, I mean, I’m happy for you cause you’re going to $500 to put towards your new Mac mini. So you didn’t lose anything. Like you basically got kind of an, in some ways like Apple got a free loan from you, but you also got a free loan from them. So, uh, that you’ll be able to put towards getting a Mac mini. The only downside is like, if someone, like, if you had never wanted to buy. Like a Mac Mac, any ever, like, if that weren’t something that would be what we’d want to buy for development, then I could see people being kind of annoyed, but you could also use that $500 towards another product. So I don’t know. Brett:yeah. Yeah, no, I’m, I’m happy. I, uh, I have a newish MacBook pro that [00:49:00] I enjoy. I don’t, I don’t use the butterfly keyboard on it. It’s it’s right on the cusp of the, the keyboard change. But in general, as far as like a portable machine goes, I’m, I’m perfectly happy with it. Um, And my minis though, I have two minis that are 20 twelves. That definitely need some, uh, that, that part of my hardware arsenal needs refreshing. For sure. Wow. Okay. So we got to the last 10 minutes of the show. We kept the Brittany discussion to, I think, a reasonable amount of time Christina:I think so. Brett:are, you’re not mad at me. Are you. Christina:No, not, not, not, not in the slightest. Brett:Okay. Christina:I feel like I, I feel like I want to talk to Ella about this now, but, uh, just cause she seems like more interested in this than you, but no Brett:thoughtful person and she would definitely like she’s coming at it as coming to it as a complete outsider. She Christina:you’re out. Brett:cared about Brittany. Like she [00:50:00] doesn’t do pop music at all, but she is a very thoughtful person. And when presented with all the facts in that, uh, in that documentary, she, she could, she could have a very, uh, very, uh, coherent and thoughtful conversation with you. I should arrange that. We should have a zoom. We should have a Brittany zoom. Christina:Brittany zoom. That would be amazing. Actually, I would live for that. Um, okay. Um, we now have like another 10 minutes. We, I want to talk all about like Bret stuff. This is how this is in our Quip document. It’s all Brett stuff. So talk to me about some Brett:there’s this list of things that I keep adding to, like, if we run out of things to talk about here, stuff that, that I find interesting, that we can fill time with, and this list has grown to, uh, about 15 items Christina:Yeah. And some of it we’ve talked about, like we talked about Caribbean or, um, fixed being fixed without Brett:And then they broke it again. I had to. Christina:Oh, God. Brett:the last beta update carabiner [00:51:00] again, I don’t know how this is happening, but I am. Um, but did we talk about how better touch tool can do the hyper key now? Christina:no. Brett:Uh, in the last round of Christina:Oh, no, maybe we did. Maybe we did so, so better. Okay. So, so better touch school can now be your hyper key, so you don’t even need a carabiner. Brett:I’m still using carabiner because at this point it’s the more, uh, stable option. Yeah. Uh, but I do believe that better touch will is going to get there. Um, he’s also putting out, uh, he keeps promising in, in, uh, a soon update that, uh, he’s going to support stream deck actions. Christina:Oh, hell Brett:Yeah, that could be a lot of fun, Christina:Yeah. I love better touch tool so much. Um, It’s so good. Uh, he’s fantastic. Everybody should give him his book, like give him your money. Um, Brett:Here’s the cool thing is you can [00:52:00] better touch will has a full Apple script and URL handler set up so you can create anything that better touch tool can do. You can integrate with things like a keyboard, Maestro, or bunch, and, uh, and tap into all of the kind of hardware integration that better touchable has from all kinds of other automation apps. Christina:That’s awesome. Brett:should probably link better touch will ever all that time. Yeah. Christina:Yeah, I think so that we should definitely link better touch. Brett:It’s available through a set app Christina:I was going to say, yeah, it is. And it is one of those things. He also makes a great one, a manager called, um, a better, um, staff tool, Brett:Yeah. Christina:which I like a lot. Brett:I’m a, I’m a moon guy. It’s better. Snap tool is great, but I’m, I’m um, I’m in the moon ecosystem. All of my, all of my window management is so moon based. I’ve never really had to, uh, chip play around with like magnet or better, better snap tool. Christina:Yeah, I’ve [00:53:00] used mum as well. I’ve used a bunch of them. Um, that’s probably should be a topic at another point. We should talk about our window managers. Um, But like for that’s a super nerdy topic, but, uh, cause I’ve I’ve thoughts on them, but cause like tiling window managers are popular, but they’re not quite a thing on Mac. Um, Brett:X windows. Christina:yeah. Brett:We’re not going to talk about X windows. Christina:No, we’re not gonna talk about what excellent is. I don’t care. Um, this is why I don’t use Lennox to be totally honest. Like I do not care. Could give a, could care less about whale under X windows or any yeah. Don’t care. But yeah. Um, the better touch tool is awesome and it, yeah, it is on, um, the, uh, uh, set up, but it’s great also. So you have here a uhk model, so module, so this is for your ultimate hacking keyboard. Brett:Okay, before we get to all of that, uh, I do want to mention that this episode is also brought to you by remote HQ, with remote HQ, your team [00:54:00] no longer needs a physical office to meet in remote HQ, empowers remote teams to work together as if they were in the same room. When you set up a meeting room, you can mix and match various apps on your screen to meet the needs of that particular meeting. Simultaneously browse online. Take notes in a Google doc, share Dropbox files. Manage a Trello board, add files from your Google drive. Collaborate on a whiteboard and more all while still being able to see and talk with your teammates. Remote HQ, automatically capture session output. So you have a searchable digital trail. Notes from every meeting are logged and saved to that event. And you can even do audio and video recording right within your meeting since the platform is browser base and there’s no need to download anything. Remote HQ is easily accessible to everyone on your team. There’s even a mobile friendly mode for attending meetings from your phone. And the meeting in the meeting rooms can be locked and used only by [00:55:00] authenticated users, which is more secure than just using a password. So head to remote hq.co/overtired for a 30 day free trial. When you’re ready to launch, use the code tired and get the next three months for free. Thank you. Remote HQ for your continued support of overtired. Christina:Thank you. good stuff. Brett:Yes. So Laszlo from better, uh, from ultimate hacking keyboard had contacted me and asked if I wanted to help beta test the version, two of the ultimate hack and keyboard. Christina:Yeah. And you were like, Brett:Yeah, absolutely. Um, so that hasn’t shown up yet. Uh, it is, he does, he has verified that it’s going to ship as soon as it’s ready, but in the meantime, he shipped me all of the modules that everyone has been waiting for years for these to ship. Um, like they, he sends out updates about every month kind of like on the progress, the [00:56:00] sourcing and the, the. Uh, production of these and all the problems they’ve run into how they sell them. He’s very transparent about the process, but the fact of the matter is people paid for them upfront, like multiple years ago. I don’t even know how many years. Uh, and nobody’s had them yet, but I got them. I have, I have the, the left-hand it gives you three extra keys by your thumb. And on the right hand, you can have a track point, a track pad or a track ball. And I have them all to test out. I’ll admit that moving my mouse with my thumb is. I’m ju I’m not finding it to be so handy that I’ve broken the habit of just moving my hand over to my magic track pet, but the key module, the key cluster I could, I could definitely stand to have that arm, both thumbs. Christina:That’s awesome. Brett:I do. [00:57:00] So the, if it’s not configurable yet, like the, the agent that lets you configure all the keys of the keyboard. Doesn’t yet let you customize the, the mouse modules, but if it did, I would, I would like to try turning, like maybe the track ball or even the, the track, any of them turning the men into scroll only so that while I’m writing or reading, I have a thumb module that can just scroll the page that I Christina:Oh, that would be nice. So, so literally, so the only thing you could do would be to scroll, like you couldn’t use it for any other sort of pointing, um, activate, just scrolling, Brett:They, they lack, um, currently he’s working on this, but they lack acceleration. So you start moving it with your thumb and you want to get across the screen and you just kinda have to sit and wait for it to get there. And then when it does your thumbs, my thumb isn’t accurate enough to like get it to stop [00:58:00] right. Where I want it to. So then I spent a lot of time like fiddling to get the mouse cursor where I want it. So that’s not. To me a usable, but I do think that if he adds acceleration and when you move slower, you have finer control. I think they have potential. Christina:And, um, what was I going to say? So I’m looking here at your list too, so that’s nice. So you have those modules, so that’s good. Um, what other stuff have you been. Brett:bunch. I had been spending so much time on bunch. I did have, I had a chat with Fletcher yesterday about NBA ultra progress. Uh that’s they were good. Like it’s happening. Uh, we have a couple, we have a couple bugs that are only affecting like three out of over a thousand beta testers. But they’re they’re, um, they bother Fletcher enough that he, we can’t move forward with [00:59:00] release until we solve these bugs. So they’re edge cases, but, but that’s where development of that is that. So in the meantime, I have been working on bunch and I’m really thinking about taking it commercial. Christina:I think you should. Brett:The it, I put out a beta release with all of these changes. Um, everything from like parallel X. When was the last time we talked about bunch? Christina:We talked about it a couple of weeks ago, but we didn’t get super in depth with it. So. Brett:I talk about front matter? Because the beta of bunch, the first version, it, we use front matter, which is like a term from, uh, like Jekyll blogging, where you have Yammel data at the top of your markdown file. So bunch can use Yammel style, uh, header data to do things like schedule, uh, opening and closing. And it can, uh, you can say you can [01:00:00] have a. Close after. So if you open a bunch, it can automatically close the bunch after a set period of time, all with natural language. Um, Christina:th th this was how you wound up, like not recording stuff, right? When, when bunch. messed up and, Brett:When I was still testing. Yeah. Yes. I have had a couple of, a couple of bunches that I forgot to take a, a schedule key out of that I’d been testing that have suddenly. Launched or quit, uh, inappropriately, but that was my own fault. Christina:speaking of updates real quickly, have you seen the new Mac? Updater. Brett:no. Christina:So McAfee or 2.0, came out, um, a couple of weeks ago, I paid for it, uh, because I, I really like it. And the interface is, has received kind of an uptick and it has some other, um, newer features too. Um, and he had added, you know, a, um, a [01:01:00] CLI for me, which I definitely appreciated. And I think that that’s got some new, uh, features to you. I’m going to add that, um, Brett:So. Christina:In the list. Brett:me, like, I, I, I own the previous version of Mac update or it’s solid. Um, if anyone doesn’t know, it basically goes through all of the sparkle feeds on all of your apps and Christina:Right. But also get hub. Brett:does it? Christina:Yeah, it goes through, it goes through brew. Uh, it goes through, you know, get, have like anything that’s kind of linked to their, like they have a system like it it’s, um, integrated with, with, uh, Homebrew, which is one of the reasons I’ve liked it. Brett:sure. Okay. That makes sense. I tend to put off my Homebrew updates until, until they become massive. And then half a day gets spent updating a home brewer. Christina:No totally. Well, what’s nice about it is that they’ll do it for your casks and casks and brew. Parlance is like your, your binary apps. So not like your utilities, but, um, like your actual applications, if you’ve been sold them that way. And [01:02:00] so it can, it can check them that way. Yeah. So it was really nice and, and there is a CLI if you want to run stuff that way you can ignore stuff. Like, like I have things set up, like to ignore like setup apps. Um, and, and stuff like that, or, or like, it’ll show you on a Mac app store app, and lets you like launch that. Um, it’ll show you like if there, if you need to do an upgrade or an update, if it will show you if something needs to be manually upgraded or not like it it’s good stuff Brett:nice Mac update the website. Uh, which has kind of fallen out of a Vogue, but they used to have their own desktop app that did a pretty Christina:they did it did. And. It, it did. And, and then it ended up, I think, at least in my experience, it consumed a lot of resources, but the bear thing was like cost a lot of money. Um, and I was actually how I found Mac updater because there hadn’t been really any updates on Mac update in a while. Like the database was still updated, but like the rest of the stuff, I was like, [01:03:00] I don’t. Are they doing okay? Like they hadn’t been active on their blogs, their deals, like there’s just stuff. And I’m like, you know, I get the sense that things weren’t doing super well and which is a shame, but I was like, okay. And then I found Mac update and I was like, Oh, um, I like this. And, um, you know, it’s like, you know, 35 bucks or whatever. Um, if you want the prohibition, it’s $15 for the single. Um, use, um, if you just want to use it as a scanner at spree, I like it a lot. Uh he’s he’s been very good on his, you know, uh, feature support. And like I said, adding the CLI thing was not even something I expected. And that was really nice. Brett:what is the, what’s the benefit of the CLI over just using like brew update. Christina:because you can do it for everything. So like brew update would obviously be great for anything I install through brew, but any of my other apps. I can just so I can just from the command line, initiate and update. Brett:For a lot of things I like to [01:04:00] do from the command line, but I would want my, uh, mass updates of my computer to have more interactivity. And that gets to be a pain on the command line. So I personally would like the gooey for that. Christina:Yeah, I know. And that’s the thing you can do both. Right. So, and it was, for me, it was just one of those things. I was like, sometimes I just want it, like, not that I replaced it. I used the goofy, most cases. I just wanted it. I just like, as a nice option. I didn’t expect that to actually be, you know, a, uh, thing that would be added into it. Um, but that was, that was added in, in the last, uh, Six months ago, I think. But, um, yeah, so, so the 2.0 is out now. Um, it’s nice. Um, it’s, it’s a one-time purchase, so he’s not doing subscriptions. Um, I don’t know how frequently he’s planning on adding stuff, but had been a couple of years since he released the first Mac update, which is still getting, like, if you had the Mac update or like, that’ll still get, you know, a certain, you know, like [01:05:00] updates on when it’ll still work. It’s just not gonna get any of the new features. But, uh, but, but I, um, I upgraded. I like supporting devs. He also makes like the, a couple of other utilities, like the, like, I think I might’ve heard of him first was the uninstalled, PKG, um, utility that he had, um, which, which is free. And, um, anyway, so yeah, that’s just kind of an update on that. Uh, I was looking through your list too. We are running out of time. We’ve gone over, but, uh, Unite, uh, coherence acts and you’re missing fluid. I miss fluid as well. I really do those. Those apps are well, I kind of have to use in its place, but Brett:like, I like unite and coherence. They Christina:I used to Brett:there. They’re solid apps. And the difference between them is one is. Uh, chromium based and one is a WebKit and, uh, unite makes nice small, fast [01:06:00] apps. Coherence lets you in let you include like your, uh, Chrome plugin and in a single-site browser and both of them. Christina:Yep. I probably should have started with this. That’s what this really is, is this is a way to create seagull sized browsers, which are similar, but not the same as progressive web apps. So if you want just like, um, a window, you know, for, for a web interface thing, like if you want, you know, Gmail or whatever with no Chrome, that’s Brett:that you can isolate from tracking. Like if you want to completely partition off your Facebook browsing, uh, it’s a way to, to isolate and not share Facebook with your other web browsing, uh, which you can also do with like Firefox containers or incognito mode and stuff like that. But it is nice. And the cool thing about a single-site browser is I can have like a Facebook browser. That I can have a bunch that opens and closes social media apps. So I can have all my social media apps close [01:07:00] after an hour, you know, and, and I can control them separately. Uh, it makes it, it gives me added control over my social media habits, but, um, I do miss fluid user scripts. Christina:Yeah, that’s what I loved about it. Brett:Yeah. I use our scripts. Aren’t really a thing anymore. Are they. Christina:No, not really, but, but it was nice. And so like, if you had a grease monkey script or something like this was really useful for things like Gmail or for other stuff, I used to have one that I used for notifications and this was back when, uh, growl was a thing. I used to have a Trello fluid app that I had for years where I had a user script set up that would give me ground notifications when a card was changed and, um, Trello did eventually release a desktop app. My SSP with fluid was better. Uh, I don’t know if that’s still the case cause I don’t use Trello anymore. And I think they’ve changed owners like one or two times since then. But, um, that, that, but my setup that I’d use for [01:08:00] years was better than their desktop app to be totally honest, because I had like the user scripting set up and I had like it, you know, with the, with the ground notifications. Um, and, and I also had, you know, like, um, I guess what, what’s the thing like badges, like to show unread stuff or whatever. So, yeah. Yeah. User scripts aren’t really a thing anymore, but I did, I did like fluid a lot and, and, uh, Todd is really a really nice guy. Um, Brett:ditching Dorf. That’s right. Whatever happened to him. Christina:I don’t know. Brett:is he doing now? Didn’t he put out like a diagrams app to Christina:He might have, Brett:a shape. I think it was called shapes. Christina:yeah, that’s right. Shapes app. Yeah. Brett:Who did, uh, who, who did wait, who did retro batch? What’s that? Oh, now I forgotten. Um, have you seen retro batch? Christina:The name is really familiar. Brett:Um, it’s uh, like, um, Oh Christina:Oh no. Okay. Well, yeah, that’s good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rusher. Bashi I know this. Yeah. [01:09:00] Retro bashes. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brett:Aye. Aye. Aye. I think he finally put out a stable release. I’ve been on it since the beta. It’s a wave. It’s a node based a way to map out image manipulation automation. So you get like this page, this blank page, and you can drag nodes onto it and connect them in different ways and have them branch off. And it basically creates a pipeline. So. Like for me, I, I have a template that creates a, uh, a header image, four, one of my blog posts at a certain size. Then I drop it into retro batch. It creates the, uh, Twitter, Facebook, uh, two X and one X versions. It creates the, um, all the open graph tags and it basically, I can drag one image onto it and get a full. Like ready to go open graph, blog posts out of it. And I love retro badge. Christina:Yeah, no, I like it too. Um, and I love acorn. [01:10:00] Like acorn is one of my favorite apps. Brett:Gus is good. Um, like, so affinity apps have replaced acorn for me, acorn. Like there was a point in my life where I couldn’t get along without Photoshop. Like I ran an ad agency. I was steeped in the. The, the professional graphic design world and, uh, Photoshop and illustrator, you couldn’t work without. Um, but then once I kind of moved away from that was doing mostly my own work acorn you could launch and, and export a JPEG and acorn, and the time it took Photoshop to finish bouncing in the doc. And so I use acorn all the time. Affinity is not as fast as acorn by any means. Christina:No. I mean, look for serious editing. I use affinity for everything too. I mean, although I do still have like a Photoshop, uh, thing that work pays for, and that I use for work purposes and because you need it sometimes, [01:11:00] but, um, and like you get the creative suite. So like, if I need, you know, we edit in premiere, so might as well get all of it. But if I’m doing quick editing, I still use acorn just cause it’s so much faster. Brett:Yup. Corn. I’m adding a corn in retro batch to the show notes. have good show notes. There’s Christina:We do have good show notes, Brett:Spears. Um, Christina:but the both of Vanessa gregarious, like article was really good from 2008. It’s really a good read in context now, I think anyway, Brett:we should probably stop now, but I do want to, I don’t have a long discussion to have about this, so I’ll just mention you ever use HomeBridge. Christina:uh, no, Brett:Uh, so. Christina:this, this, this was the thing, like, that’ll like be your home kit bridge with the other stuff. Brett:it lets all my home kit devices show up on my Alexa and it lets all my Indigo devices show up on HomeBridge and uh, I mean on home kit so I can, I can control my old fashioned Indigo [01:12:00] automation from the home app. And it used to be this like node application. You had to run from the command line and run. Uh, Damon in the background and it was, uh, you had to be a nerd to use it. Um, now it’s still a node application, but it has this whole web interface with status updates and you can install plugins, uh, through a web, uh, uh, like there’s a Oh a plugin installer. And in the case of the newer plugins, you don’t even have to edit the Jason config file. It’s super nice. Now. I let it go for a while. I had, I had just given up on integrating all of my home automation stuff, but I’m back to it and I’m loving HomeBridge. Christina:Nice. And this Brett:a few things off my list. Christina:we can, we can. And so, yeah, so this is, uh, HomeBridge. This is, uh, the Northern [01:13:00] man, 54 HomeBridge Alexa. Brett:Are you just looking stuff up on the web? Christina:I was trying to, I was trying to find like, what were the main like project is for HomeBridge. Brett:I it’ll be in my recent, my recent, Oh man. That’s funny in my, uh, my browser history. All of my HomeBridge links are, uh, yeah, my, from my local, um, Mac mini. Yeah. It’s um, they have a good hub. There’s a HomeBridge user forget hubs. So if you go to HomeBridge slash HomeBridge. Yeah, cool stuff. Cool stuff. You can run it on a raspberry PI Christina:Excellent. Excellent. I don’t do any of the home automation stuff, but I sometimes think about it. So if I ever do, I’m always like, yep. That’s what I would use. I would use home bridge because trying to get everything on one platform or another is a nightmare. So Brett:you know what you can automate Christina:what was that? [01:14:00] Brett:bedtime. Christina:Ooh, good call. Good call. All right. So I think, I think it’s, uh, it’s time for us to try to get some sleep. Hopefully you can get your full eight, eight and a half hours, Brett:let’s go for eight and a half. Christina:eight and a half. I like it. That’s what she said. Brett:That’s at least a half inch more than I have Christina:All right. Get some sleep, Brett. Brett:get some sleep, Christina.

From mainframe memories to Gamestop, with some good ol’ cancel culture in the middle. Christina knows as much about money as she does about 90210. Sponsor Get the best sleep of your life on a Helix mattress. Helix is offering Overtired listeners up to $200 off all mattress orders AND two free pillows. Just go to helixsleep.com/overtired. Show Links TRINTELLIX (vortioxetine) Ambien Power Macintosh G3 Sun Sparc What is an AS/400 System? Gopher Kermit The Anarchist Cookbook Marilyn Manson is an abuser The GameStop Reckoning Was a Long Time Coming Dogecoin Plunges After Rally, Sparking Outcry on Reddit Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Christina [00:00:00] Christina:You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren here with Brett Terpstra. Brett, how are you? Brett:I am. I’m good. I’m good. My, my, like, like a cycle of like, uh, having a manic episode a week seems to be, I think I’m in the clear, I think I’m good. How are you? Christina:Okay, so we’re going to do Christina’s health corner of this week. Um, Brett:We never do. Christina’s health corner. Christina:we don’t and yet, yeah, so I take, um, an antidepressant called, uh, Trintellix and I take, I’m supposed to take a dose like at night. And, and the reason I take it at night, instead of in the morning with my other pills is because like, it’s sometimes can like upset my stomach or something. And it’s just, it’s a weird thing. So I take it at night. Well, I miscalculated and I. Ran out of doses. And I realized this [00:01:00] yesterday at like 10:00 PM. Um, so I’ll, I’ll pick up my prescription today, but I didn’t take it last night. And as a result, even though the half-life on it, isn’t super bad. It’s not like effects are aware if you miss a dose, like you immediately feel like withdrawal symptoms, like instantly like a, I had really weird. Dreams and kind of like fitful dreams, meaning that like seven or nine minutes would seem like way longer than it normally is. And this has happened before when I forgot to take it to us for whatever reason. So like really weird dreams, kind of uneven sleep. And I’m just feeling, I’m going to be honest with the listeners and with you, I’m just feeling kind of, not completely with it. Brett:yeah, I’m on, I’m on, um, uh, not Abilify. Uh, Lamictal is like, I get [00:02:00] withdrawal from that. It’s a mood stabilizer. And if I miss a dose of that, uh, not only do I get all like skin Crawley and like this weird physical, anxious feeling, uh, I also get that. Not quite with it feeling Christina:Yeah, this is, yeah, this is weird. Cause it’s not, like I said, it’s not like a normal sort of withdrawal feeling. I mean, like, it is a withdrawal of sorts, but it’s not like a normal sort of that, like it, I don’t have the, the skin Crawley. I don’t have like the feeling like I’m going insane kind of thing. Like I do with, um, like if I miss like an effects or dose or something, Um, affects her is really bad. Um, if you miss, like the half-life on that is so short, that it’s bad. Um, I once had to, um, an ex-boyfriend in college once contacted me because his new girlfriend, I guess, had been staying with him and, um, like left her pills, like at our [00:03:00] house, I guess, like she lived in like South Carolina or something and she was like, Going crazy because she was off her meds and was like, withdrawing, like crazy. So he like reached out to me because he was freaking out. So she like came over and she was like, can I like, you know, I had to like find out her dose. And I was like, how many pills do you need? And she was like, I just needed one. I was like, no, how many do you actually need? Because it was one of those things where like our breakup was not great. And it was still one of those things where I was like, yeah, I don’t want to wish this on anyone. So. For his sake and her sake, I was like, here, I will, I will give you a couple of pills. Um, so it’s not like that, but I am like totally kind of all over the place and yeah, the, the sleep thing. Is like the weirdest part because, um, a like took me forever to go to sleep. And then once I finally did, I was just in like, these really like fitful, but like intense kind of REM cycles where [00:04:00] my alarm would go off and, you know, I’d hit the snooze and like, I’d have like nine minutes of seemingly actual sleep, but like I’d have dreams and stuff, which almost never in that period of time. Uh, and then like, you know, waking up and just being like, feeling just disoriented. So that’s, that’s that’s me. Um, also I was just then talking about sleep. So that’s maybe a good segue for some stuff you want to talk about too early. Okay. Brett:too early sponsors have to come between 30 and 70% marks in the show, unless this is going to be a really short show. How you feeling? Christina:I’m feeling. I know it’s not there. Okay. So, all right. So see, this is, this is showing how bad, like I am at, like, I was trying to do the whole, um, Brett:It was a Valiant Christina:thing. I’m sorry. I was trying, but yeah, so I’m feeling weird to be totally honest, but other than that, like my health corner is okay. I guess. Um, Grant’s been having some major health issues, but this is not Grant’s health corner. This is Christina and bread’s health corner. So. [00:05:00] Brett:So here’s my, my drug slash sleep thing I used to take, uh, I think they’re called Z class, like Lunesta, um, sleeping meds. And, uh, what’s the one that, uh, like politicians always get in trouble for. Ambien. I used to take both, not at the same time, but I’ve been on both of those. And I, uh, I, it affected my memory to the extent that like, I would forget things within five minutes. And as soon as I stopped taking those, like I could, I could think again, but I couldn’t sleep. So they put me on transit don’t uh, and then there was. Something else that I was on. But anyway, long story short, I can no longer sleep without drugs. Fortunately, one of the, uh, bipolar medications that I take is called, um, it’s a weird saffras and no one, no [00:06:00] one seemed to have ever heard of it, but it’s Christina:yeah, I was going to say, I’ve never heard about that one. Brett:like it dissolves under your tongue. You put these Christina:Oh, one of those. Yeah. Brett:under your tongue and it dissolves and it will knock you out. So I don’t have to take any other sleep meds now, but if I run out of those, there’s no way I’m sleeping that night. It’s like you described with just like the fitful in and out half, half asleep, half awake. It, it sucks. Christina:Yeah, no, that’s unfortunate. Although I’m glad like you have something that can get you to sleep. Yeah. I’ve um, I used to take NyQuil until I kind of like, uh, and my doctors even used to like recommend it. And then I kind of like became immune to NyQuil, which was unfortunate. Um, grant used to take Ambien. And when he was on Ambien, he would have, you know, some people will do the things where they have like sleepwalking and sleep, eating and whatnot. He would have a thing where he would just like buy really weird stuff. Brett:You go into this like weird blackout [00:07:00] mode that can involve hallucinations and you you’re super lucid and you feel like you’re making all the right decisions. Uh, but you absolutely aren’t. So I get that I’ve been there. My, uh, my ex wife used to take Ambien as well. And, uh, yeah, we had some very interesting conversations, post taking an Ambien. Christina:Yeah. Yeah, no, I I’ve never really taken it. I think for that reason. Cause I was always like, yeah, I don’t know about that. Cause yeah. Cause grant would have a thing where yeah, I remember one time he got, he bought like a bunch of like G4 Aero, G three era, really like, um, Mack towers Brett:a punch, huh? Christina:like three of them Brett:Like wildlife while they were popular or like, while they were recurrent Christina:no, this was no, this wasn’t like. No, this was like in 2009, but [00:08:00] they’re in my parents’ basement now. And it’s like, they were like that the Sawtooth Aero ones. And, um, and one of them was like the, the, the G three that had, um, like the iMac colored kind of, uh, um, uh, front, which was similar to the Saatchi to design. But just like it was, it was the Aqua Marine color rather than the, uh, darker blue, Brett:I remember it, Christina:the Bondai color. Yeah, Brett:like the, that was the first Mac I actually worked on. I had that at my, uh, my first job out of college. It was, uh, a G three, I think. But it Christina:It was. Brett:Marine. Yeah. Christina:Yeah, they’re a nice machine. So he bought like couple of those. I think one point you also had like, got like a 19 inch monitor, which CRT, which we got rid of that when we moved, because that was dumb even then. And it was like, this was when nobody wanted a CRT, but I think that it was one of those deals where like he had to get the CRT in order to, uh, get the computer. And then he got like some sort of like weird [00:09:00] terminal, um, I guess emulator, like, uh, things like, like a weird, I guess, like terminal systems that had really bizarre, um, input methods, like implant mechanisms that you couldn’t even use with anything else. It wasn’t even like a VTE or whatever. Like, it was just, it was something bizarre that like, I think in his mind, he thought he could do something with it and he couldn’t. And, um, and for years he tried to defend. That purchase. And then he finally like came and was like, no, that was like, there was, there was, that was the most bizarre, weirdest, like dumbest thing. I was like, thank you. It only took you like five years to come to terms with that. Uh, I mean, not that I cared, you know, or whatever, it was just one of those like funny things. I think he might’ve bought a spark box for some reason. Brett:can’t remember what a sparked boxes. Christina:Those were those sun boxes that were like shaped like pizza boxes. They were often known. They like that. Like the sun, like pizza boxes, like the, the big, you know, kind of like server things that, um, before Lennox was when everyone used was like, what nerves, [00:10:00] I guess, in the, in the mid nineties, all lusted after. Cause it was like it’s Unix, but I can, I can have it on my desk. Brett:wait, what was that line from? I think it was Jurassic park. Christina:Yeah, Brett:is Unix. I know this. Christina:yes, yes, yes. Which is such a club it’s like line, uh, and which, you know, like obviously became a meme, um, within like five years, you know, or whatever, like what monks nerds, maybe even earlier, I became aware of it within five years and like knew the context, but the movie came out in 93 and that actress was probably like 12 years old. Like the fact that they would write that in there. I wonder if that was a like requirement for them being able to use all of that, like, you know, risk stuff that they were doing for like the SGI stuff that they were doing for the graphics that they had to, you know, like name, check Unix. I don’t know. [00:11:00] Cause it’s such a weird choice to be like, it’s Unix. I know this. It’s like, I, I know that they like established, I believe that she was some sort of like very technical, like computer thing, which in retrospect, like, I appreciate that it was the, the, the girl child that had that skill and not the little boy, but totally, but I it’s also like it’s 1993, the only people who have access to Unix are like academics. Or very, very, very rich, you know, people, um, if you’re not working in like a day job and something like this is not something where like I could imagine you would come home and you’d be like, yeah, we just have a Unix box at home. Like that. That’s literally the whole reason we have Linux. Brett:teen 94, the guitarist in my band, his older brother got a, um, [00:12:00] What was it? What, what, what was Steve jobs doing when he left Apple next? He got her next box that, uh, he, I don’t remember what, uh, the base OSPF next to us was, but yeah, that makes sense. That makes perfect sense. But he had hacked it to as like a Linux box and it was fun, but I, I, I got my, uh, Linux chops. Uh, or Unix chops by logging into the mainframe back when they were called mainframes at the local college. And, uh, like you could, it was gopher was how I got into it, but then I had to learn my way around a command line. And I had my own little Tilda. Uh, I think my username was Ali Smith. I don’t remember why, but like Tilda Ali Smith. And you had your, like your personal webpage and everything at that, these were good memories. It was [00:13:00] why I first built a Linux machine was because I had so much fun learning Unix. On the mainframe, the ASMR 400, I think that’s what it was. That’s a machine, right? An ASMR 400. Christina:I think so. Brett:Yeah. It’s all, it’s all distant memories. There was a lot of heroin between that or no, Christina:Yeah, no, that that’s that’s that that’s so funny. Well, it was funny. You mentioned, you mentioned like gopher because I remember having to get onto my sister’s. Like she went to the university of Georgia and I remember having to use like a gopher client or maybe it was like something called, like Kermit or something. I’m trying to remember now. Brett:right. That was current. It was a protocol. Christina:Okay. Okay. Brett:was a modem protocol. Christina:Oh, okay. All right. Well, I remember using gofer and Kermit to have to get on, uh, cause we had like a, a laptop. We didn’t have our desktop. Then we had like a laptop and I bought an external modem [00:14:00] for it because I was that child. And um, this is when I was like 12 and a loving or 12 and I, um, Because it might’ve been even before she started college that we first had to do it. I don’t remember. And having to like, do that ticket on the course catalog so that she could register for classes. I remember that. I also remember, I mean, it was, it’s funny because, um, she didn’t go to college with a, with a computer and it wasn’t because she couldn’t have. I mean, we didn’t have a lot of money then, but you know, we, my parents would have figured something out. It wasn’t because like, you know, uh, she couldn’t have, or whatever, it was just, it wasn’t a requirement. So she, you know, didn’t have a computer at college. Like she would go to the labs. And then eventually when we got our Pentium 90, uh, which was like my first real. Real computer that I was obsessed with and it, you know, [00:15:00] helps pay for and all kinds of other things that really kind of kick-started me into computing. Um, because I, I, at this point I’d already read and was like pseudo expert, at least in theory about how. You know, computers worked and use and was, uh, uh, uh, uh, like a defacto CIS admin in the Mac lab, uh, at school. But like, um, she will come home and, and use that, uh, or, or more correctly, like she’d come home and like, I would, you know, do stuff, um, for her, but yeah, but it’s so funny to think about, like, I always think about that, but like, for me, there was no question, like, You had to have a computer like to go in college, like, you know, like w wasn’t it, I think like, and it, to me, like, I actually got a really, really nice computer for Christmas when I was, uh, 15 or 16. And like two years later, when I went away to college, I got, um, And even nicer, you know, computer that, that I like took [00:16:00] with me and that I paid for part of it, this, when I worked at best buy. And I, um, so I did like, I, I could have taken the computer that I got a couple of years earlier with me, but I, I did not, I was like, no, I’m going to get like, you know, brand new thing or whatever. And, and I made friends with people the first week in the dorms because a lot of people didn’t have either Netscape, um, uh, cards and their computers because they bought cheap like III machines. And then realize that they couldn’t get on the networks and didn’t know how to install a PCI card. So I just like went to best buy and bought like a whole stack of them. And then we just kind of go to the dormer dorm and install people’s PCIE cards. Like it’s no people, Brett:a price. You’re doing this for free. Oh, that’s crazy. Christina:I know. I know. I mean, I made them pay for the card, but, uh, it was like the first week of school, you know, you’re trying to get to know people. I did charge for HBO when we got HBO. Um, and, and want to making money. Um, so is how it worked is that we got basic cable for [00:17:00] free, but if you wanted to get HBO together channels, like I had to call Comcast and I had to like, get a package specifically added on to my unit. And it was not an easy process because like the way that our dorms worked as they were like, they were like apartments. And so it was not an easy process for me to call them and figure out a way for me to just. You know, upgrade that part of the package because the rest of it was, was paid for, and only to be built for the HBO and Showtime. Um, and, and then pay for the cable boxes. Uh, th the would, you know, offer the stuff. So like I had one in my room and then one in the living room. And then, um, we would have like group watch parties for sex and the city and the Sopranos and queer spoken stuff. And so people would come over and would watch, and I would like say, Hey, can you ship in some money for the cable bill? And. And I didn’t make a lot of money or anything, but I did make a little bit of money off of that. So. Brett:when I was in college, I lived in this, [00:18:00] uh, I guess you would call it a punk house. It was, it was mostly junkies, but not entirely junkies, but we, uh, we pulled the cable. We, we tapped into the neighbor’s cable line. Ran it up the utility pole across, down the other utility pole and into our house. And then it was, I don’t remember how exactly it worked, but basically premium channels were just filtered. Christina:Yep. Yep. It was exactly how it worked. Brett:if you unfiltered it, you got everything. Christina:Right. They’re scrambled. They were called scramblers. Yep. Brett:Yeah. And we managed, we had like full cable, totally free. Those are good times, by the way. You’re right. Kermit is a computer file transfer management reading from Wikipedia protocol and the set of communication software tools primarily used in the early years of personal computing and the 1980s [00:19:00] old school. Christina:Old school. So, so UGA was like really, really backwards then, because I remember that, but I also remember using gofer or whatever emergency. I just remember having to set up the IRQ settings and trying to get connected because it was not an easy process. I mean, I I’ve lost so much of this time because it’s been 25 years, but, but I, Brett:sound familiar, but I, yeah, Christina:right. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s been 25 years, but I just remember being like 11 or 12 and like being like. All right. How am I going to all right. Get, get this to work, get the course, catalog up, get the other stuff. And then, you know, I’ve got like my older sister, who’s impatient and kind of bitchy and, and thinking that she knows everything and I’m like, okay, well then you do it. And then she has no idea what she’s doing. And then she’s like, you know, yelling at my mom is, is high, strong and freaking out. We have to get this time that I had. I’m like, well then fucking leave me alone. You know, like, Like, like, let me, let me, you know, follow the instructions and figure out how to [00:20:00] do this. Like, we did have Wikipedia and we didn’t have, I mean, we had like a 14, four modem, so, you know, it was hardly, um, Brett:I wonder if they’re still go over servers. It used to be this wealth of what you would call like underground Infor I mean, bomb making materials like the anarchist cookbook. Like Christina:Oh yeah. Brett:everything Christina:Oh, we used to spread that around a floppy disks in, in middle school. Brett:terrorism, but yeah. I wonder if that stuff’s still out there. Christina:Um, I did actually find the, the anarchist cookbook and, uh, a couple of years ago, I think I was going to write a story about it. And then I didn’t, because it, it turns out like if you find it, like there might be some stuff in there. That’s I mean, look, to be very clear, like it is total homegrown terrorism sort of shit or whatever, but like most of the stuff it would not work and most of it is just complete Brett:for an H-bomb in there that I’m 90% sure wouldn’t work. Christina:There was a disc bomb. I remember there was a floppy disc bomb and, uh, [00:21:00] the, the, the idea was that it would destroy the hard drive in your computer or whatever. And I remember in seventh grade, Some of my friends, I didn’t actively participate, but I didn’t actively not participate. Right. That’s that’s I was gonna say, like, I didn’t actively try to build like the disk bomb, but I didn’t actively not like I was definitely watching, like, the idea was basically you just like open, open it up or acetone on some of the things. Um, and, and replace a couple of the other things with some match system, like, um, basically replaced the inside with, um, matches and, um, like mashed powder. And, um, acetone. And then the idea was that the Reed heads would create friction, which would, you know, uh, spark the mash powder and, and, you know, combusted with the acetone and then burn the insights. It did not do any of that. Like, and, and, and when you, Brett:really just creative storytelling. Christina:100%, 100%, but we were also excited and then like nothing happened. It was one of those things. It was like, [00:22:00] You know, cause, cause even then components were strong enough that it’s like, you would need a whole lot more like friction or whatever to do anything. Assuming you even were able to spread stuff correctly. I don’t even, I don’t even think that it would be theoretically possible for it to do what it was doing, but it was creative storytelling. And you know, when you’re. Like 12, like that’s what you kind of think about as being like, you hear about something like the anarchist cookbook and you’re like, Oh yeah, this is, this is bad. And this is, you know, I’m, I’m being so subversive and I’m so, you know, whatever it is, it’s like, it’s like, uh, telling dead baby jokes or listening to Marilyn Manson. It’s just one of those things that you do when you’re like that age, because it feels, yeah. Brett:Nice segue. Um, for anyone, for anyone looking, I am linking a PDF with every page of the anarchist cookbook scanned it’s available on docs dot, google.com, who fun. Um, yeah, so there’s, there’s this news that really [00:23:00] shouldn’t be surprising to anyone, uh, that Marilyn Manson is being accused by multiple women of abuse. Christina:it’s pretty sharable. Brett:yeah, like I’ve always had a, uh, kind of a skeptical appreciation for some of his music, like his, his later his stuff more recently, I’ve actually really enjoyed, uh, third day of a seven day binge or whatever that song was like the soundtrack from, uh, John wick. Look, I liked that stuff. It was cool, but. Like he’s always been creepy and I’ve never really appreciated the shock value of his kind of Hertz persona. So this isn’t, yeah, I’m not shocked. Christina:No, no, I’m not shocked. And Evan, Rachel Wood, who is one of the people who’s like publicly finally named him, we all knew that it was him because she testified and in front of Congress, I think it was a couple of years ago and it went viral again. Last year. Um, [00:24:00] I’m not, I don’t really remember why, but her testimony went viral again. And it’s really powerful where she talks about how she’d basically been groomed as a teenager, by someone who was twice her age and to, uh, you know, she described the abuse and it’s pretty horrific. Um, I’m not going to get into what some of the specific allegations are because we don’t need people to, to know that or like look at, you know, like if you want to do that to yourself, look into it, but it’s pretty, it’s pretty terrible, but based on the descriptions and everything, based on the fact that we all watched. Them together, which was weird as hell, right? Like he’s literally was twice her age. I think they got together when she was still married. He was still married, I think, to two deed of on trees. And he got together with Evan, Rachel Wood. I don’t even think she was 18 yet, honestly, when they started. And then, Brett:she was 19. He was 38. Christina:well, that’s what they’re saying. I’m saying, I think if you actually look into when they were Brett:public record. Christina:Right. I think if you look into some of the other things, I think it might’ve been earlier because data on trees talked about how, like, part of the reason they got divorced was that she didn’t like that there was this [00:25:00] other girl around and, and that she was just supposed to accept that. And like, if you do that, Not like maybe there was another girl, but it, it seems unlikely. Um, but also the weird thing was is that like her whole look changed. Like she dyed her hair black. She started dressing like B2. Uh like, she was very clearly like from the outside, it was one of those things where, because she was, you know, a, a child star in retrospect, I actually think the way the media treated her in this was not that long ago. This is really a little more than a decade ago was kind of fucked up because it was kind of like, Almost a making fun of thing. Like, Oh, he’s people were basically calling out like, look at how creepy this is, is basically what the headline was. Right. Like that was basically what, like the gossip media, like celebrity media kind of angle was, which was, Oh yeah. It’s, it’s very clear that like he’s. You know, making all of his girlfriends look a certain way and that, [00:26:00] you know, he has some sort of control over them. And, and isn’t this weird that this guy is twice her age, but nobody bothered to really kind of be critical of it and be like, wait a minute. What is, what is a guy like this doing with this young girl? Like, why are we just turning this into like fodder when really we should all be deeply concerned and freaked out that, you know, like he’s. Clearly manipulating her and doing some other stuff. And so she’d already been public about the fact that she’d been abused, but she named him this week and, um, other people came forward to CAA, dropped him his record label, dropped him, um, He has been cut from episodes of some star show. He’s cut from a future episode of, uh, I think like one of the Ryan Murphy shows like, uh, American horror story or whatever, think that something else he did for someone else has been cut. Like basically he is he’s being swiftly canceled and I’m not opposed to that, [00:27:00] but I do kind of wonder, like, why did it take this long? Because again, we all knew like she didn’t name his name, but we all knew it was him. When she talked about this, like two years ago, and people have said it the years, some stuff about him, like he, and he said, we’re support her. Like he talked about how he’d like, fantasize about like smashing her in the head with a sledgehammer and stuff. Right. And people just kind of rolled their eyes. Oh, that just, just that though, that crazy Maryland, that crazy Brian, he’s just being performatively weird. You know, it’s like at a certain point, you know, that. Performative shtick. I don’t know, like it was this sort of thing that was edgy and, and felt risque and taboo to me as like a 13 year old. And then as an adult, like a quarter century later, when the person is still doing the same shtick, you’re just like, okay, this, this no longer has, like, [00:28:00] why are people still buying into this? Like this isn’t even. Brett:I think, Christina:I don’t know. Brett:labels have a lot of responsibility in this. As long as the labels continue promoting and continue putting up the music, even when they know better. People are it’s easy to, it’s easy to sweep that stuff under the rug because you assume, Oh, he’s got a new album out. No, if he was really a bad person, Christina:Right. Brett:the record labels wouldn’t be supporting him. And especially like these days, it, I there’s a certain, as long as someone has commercial viability, it’s easy to Christina:Oh, yeah. Oh, and that’s always what it comes down to. Right? Like to be clear his, his record label, those shows his agency. And I would say that his agency probably in his case probably has more culpability than even the record label, because it’s not like music is what makes people money now or whatever. Right. He’s making more thing on continuing to be on TV shows and sell that persona. But it’s like, as soon [00:29:00] as they see that you’re not financially viable, then they’ll drop you. Um, this is as soon as it becomes too toxic for them to support, but as long as they feel like they can still make money out of it, like we’ve seen with every case of abuse or me too, or anything that’s come out. Basically people we protected until it is like too toxic for them to, to not support. Right. But like, as, as, as long as there’s that monochrome of like, kind of hope, Oh, we can still make money off of this. There’s some sort of financial viability here, then it doesn’t matter. Which, um, is like a deeply cynical and kind of fucked up thing. Um, but it’s weird though, like with him, actually, this is really fucked up. Like you say, like, we shouldn’t be surprise and we shouldn’t be, uh, although it doesn’t change the fact that it’s horrible, like what people have gone through and the fact that they’ve been clearly trying to tell us for years, like the re the Evan, Rachel Wood thing, like bothers me because she was. So young. And like I said, the media [00:30:00] response was basically one of just kind of like pointing and gawking rather than being like, what the hell? Like, you know what I mean? Like, and, and, and not at all compare the situations cause they’re not the same and it’s, it’s different, but it’s kind of like the way that like Scott Disick, who I’m sure you don’t know who that is. Brett:I don’t. Christina:Uh, he is Courtney Kardashians ex-boyfriend and the father of her three children. So he’s part of the Kardashian clan, but he’s like my age, right. He’s like 37 and he keeps dating like 19 year old girls. And. He was with Sophia Richie. Who’s Lionel Richie’s youngest daughter for a couple of years after he and Courtney broke up and they got together when she was like 19. And like, they would go on family vacations together and stuff. And it was weird because like, she, you know, is again like half his age. And, and again, like in that case, the definitely the media response has been more like this is gross, but has also been more like, kind of like this just kind of like pointing and staring thing. And to be clear, like, [00:31:00] because those people always have cameras with them and he, I don’t think he’s ever exhibited behavior or had any sort of allegations against them or anything like is not the same thing. And I’m not trying to say that people who aren’t legally adults don’t have the right to be in relationships with whoever they want to be, because of course they do, but it does just kind of make me like question, like why, like we just kind of like point and stare when, you know, like the normal person response when you see those sorts of things, it’s usually like, okay, Is everything. Okay. I mean, I think that’s a fair question to ask and maybe things are, but like, rather than just like treating it like an entertainment thing, you know? Um, but anyway, but in 2011, Marilyn Manson, I, because I looked into this last night where he did a coffee table book for one of his albums with fucking Shyla Boff, who is also like, uh, has been accused of, um, severe abuse. Um, Oh, yeah, Brett:was just really enjoying peanut butter Falcon. That [00:32:00] sucks. Christina:yeah, no. Yeah. FKA twigs, like is suing him Brett:To Christina:like over abuse stuff. Yeah. Like, and, and, um, other people have come forward too, and he has done the. He’s he’s, he’s decided to go the route of basically like admitting that he’s a drug addict and alcoholic and all these things and has major issues, but has denied some of the other claims. And like, so he’s like, all right, well, some of what you say is true, but not all of it, uh, which to me is anyway. Um, so the fact that, that he and Marilyn Manson created like a coffee table books together, it’s kind of fitting Brett:That’s fucked up Christina:it is fucked up. Brett:the thing about a half year age, um, until you’re 60, that’s a horrible idea because people under 30 are rarely tolerable. Like I can’t imagine having a healthy relationship, uh, as someone over 40 with anyone. Like if I haven’t, I can’t [00:33:00] remember a 21 year old I’ve met and thought, you know, I could spend a lot of time with this person. Christina:Right. You’re just in totally different phases of your life. Brett:Yeah. Anytime you see, anytime you see a 38 year old with a 19 year old, you, you know, something drunk. That’s that’s, that’s never, that’s never the sign of someone who is truly, uh, invested in the, uh, the younger person. I just don’t think that’s possible. Christina:Like I said, I think that there, there could be exceptions to everything, but I think in, in general, you’re correct. I mean, I think like, and I have, you know, friends who are younger and people who, you know, I, I enjoy being around. Maybe not like 21, but, um, although I am kind of mentoring someone, who’s a friend of mine’s daughter, who’s 21 and, and, or 22, I guess. And I enjoy her very much, but yeah, it’s a different sort of thing. Right? Like, and, and I consider her, you know, we’re friends, but it’s also. Uh, a slightly different [00:34:00] relationship, even like five or six years ago. When I did have like interns who were like 10 years younger than me, um, I didn’t really feel a disconnect other than maybe like our professional statuses with them, but at the same time, you know, it was, it wasn’t like I wanted to date any of them. Right. Like I just, yeah. I just feel like you’re, you’re in different, you’re in different places in your life. Um, yeah. Brett:will admit there was, uh, a couple of years ago when I was still going to bars, there was an evening after a couple beers that I had a very intelligent, very, um, in a stimulating conversation with a 21 year old girl. And she was also clearly hitting on me. Uh, she was not attractive, but she was intellectually so interesting that I stuck with the conversation for probably an hour, which is crazy for me. So yeah, I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t [00:35:00] generalize all 21 year olds are intolerable. That’s not true. Uh, just, yeah. Okay. Christina:and I, I, I Brett:there’s enough though. Christina:Yeah. No. Well, I mean, I think it’s just a different life experience I go into and see if they’re intolerable. It’s just, you don’t, you don’t know what you don’t know. I mean, it’s one of those things. Like I only, like, at least for me, it’s only come with time where I’ve kind of realized I’ve looked back on those times in my life. Cause you know, uh, I was like a very mature, like, um, like a high schooler. And then I felt like I regressed when I was in college because I actually act my age, but I still was frequently around people older than me. And it’s only been like, as I’ve actually gotten older, that I’ve realized, Oh yeah, I didn’t, I didn’t have any of the perspective or know any of the stuff, you know, I thought I, I thought I did at the time, but I, but I Brett:that’s what makes it intolerable is so many 21 year olds think they ha think they’re worldly. Think they have the experience. Think they have the understanding that anyone 40 and up, or, you know, even, you know, 30 [00:36:00] and up. Can be like, no, you have a lot to learn. that’s that’s, that’s what grates on me, I guess, with most of those conversations. Christina:Yeah, no, totally. And, uh, but, but I think they’re playing people who, especially, you know, with the. Age of the internet will not leak in really smart intellectual conversations. So yeah, it’s just that worldview stuff. It’s just, you don’t know. And like I said, there are always exceptions. I don’t want to make total generalizations, but it is, I don’t know for me like the, the Marilyn Manson thing, the creepy thing was like, he literally like her look changed, like. She dyed her hair. She wore different makeup. She wore different types of clothing. Like she became a clone of his ex wife and it was, it was a very clearly like orchestrated thing by him. Right. Like, it didn’t seem to be of her own volition at all. It’s just like one day she shows up with him and then she’s looking like, you know, this clone of, of his ex-wife, who’s also like close to twice her age. Like it just wasn’t. Okay. Um, [00:37:00] we’re going to have to have a real awkward segue in a second, but I was just going to say, I read his, I read his book or read part of his book. So he wrote like an autobiography or like co-wrote one or whatever. Like, I don’t remember when maybe it was like 98 or 99. I don’t know. I read it in 2001 or part of it in 2001. And I I’m like, I haven’t read this book in 20 years. And I still remembered all the details of the first chapter. Like perfectly, because it was so disturbing, like the first sentence was like something like hell was my grandfather’s seller or whatever. And you know, I actually, I, Ron, it’s hilarious because I didn’t know we were going to be talking about this today. Ironically, like read part of it last night and I like re reminded myself and like, I, I. Had all like, almost all the memories of, of that first chapter. And it was really disturbing. I look back at it now and I’m like, this was so clearly performative [00:38:00] and so clearly designed like whether it was true or not. It was so clearly designed to like coincide with like his persona. Which, when it was published, it was before the Columbine stuff. And, um, you know, and, and it was, you know, when, when he did chief, like, you know, MTB fame and, and things like that, and gun kind of mainstream, when it was very clear, it was like, he’s cultivating like this, this creepy thing because that’s the brand. And, and so 20 years later, I can look at that and I can know that, but at the time I just remember being dislike. So grossed out, just be like, this is what the fuck dude, you know, Brett:you’re ready for an amazing segue. Christina:I am. Brett:That kind of stuff can make you lose sleep. Christina:Yes, Brett:But. And I know we talk about our failure to sleep a lot on this show, but on nights when my brain lets me and it’s not populated with nightmarish, uh, stories from, uh, shocking personalities, I’ve been sleeping [00:39:00] super well on my helix mattress. That was, that was pretty good. Right. Christina:That’s actually 100% great. Brett:So I took, he looks is a two minute quiz and they matched my body type and my sleep preferences to the midnight mattress. And I, what I love is that they’re not one size fits all. Uh, they have the perfect mattress for everyone and they make it easy to find it. Uh, they have soft, medium and firm mattresses, mattresses that are great for cooling you down. If you sleep hot and even a helix plus mattress for plus sized folks, uh, Mike midnight mattress is a medium firmness and ideal for sleeping on my side. And after a few months of sleeping on it, I can say for sure they got that right. Um, my previous mattress was another one that comes in a box, but it was a bit too soft for me. And I had to add. Gel cooling toppers to it. Just to stop sweating. Yeah, it got it. Yeah. A lot of tossing and turning. Uh, my helix mattress though stays cool all [00:40:00] night, no tossing and turning and no sweaty dreams. Um, helix is awesome, but you don’t need to take my word for it. He looks was awarded the number one best overall mattress pick of 2020 by GQ and wired magazine. So if you want to sleep better and be less overtired clever, right? Christina:but a bump. Brett:Take the quiz order the mattress that you’re matched to, and it will come right to your door, shipped for free, and you can totally skip going to the mattress store. Just go to helix, sleep.com/overtired. Take their two minute quiz and they’ll match you to a customized mattress that will give you the best sleep of your life. They have a 10 year warranty and you get to try it out for a hundred nights. Risk-free they’ll even pick it up for you. If you don’t love it. So if you use our link, helix is offering over-tired listeners up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows. I didn’t even get two free pillows, so that’s amazing. Just go to helix, sleep.com/overtired. I swear you won’t [00:41:00] regret it. Christina:that’s excellent. Brett:We went from Marilyn Manson to helix mattress, and I feel like we did it in a very respectful way. That didn’t denigrate here. I, I Christina:No, I do. Brett:we pulled it off. Christina:I think we do. I think we did. Now, if we’d made like a sweet dreams are made, you know, a sweet dreams are made of these like reference, if we’d done that, that I think we wouldn’t have pulled up. Brett:Nope. Oh my God. That would be awful. Christina:So I’m sorry Brett:yeah, that, that didn’t happen. That didn’t happen. Christina:exactly. That didn’t happen. So I think that that was very respectful and good. Um, have you been following this game? Stop stuff? Brett:Um, I have, uh, I have actually finally come to understand what shorting is like. Finally, I got her, uh, an explanation of it that made perfect sense. So [00:42:00] now I understand what kind of shenanigans, uh, the hedge funds were pulling. And how easily, how, how fake the idea of money is and how easily they were defeated. Christina:Well, I mean, I think that. I don’t know if I would say money is fake. Uh, Brett:money is a concept. It’s a construct. There’s Christina:aye. I agree with that. But, but, but, but it, but it’s so real in the sense that people put an inherent value in it. Like it’s obviously a construct, but, but yeah, I mean, we haven’t been backed by gold and you know, like decades, like neither one of our Brett:then gold is only worth what value you Christina:Oh, of course it is. So we went with that’s the whole point, but I mean, that literally goes back to like the beginning of time, like, we’ve always had some sort of currency, like, like there’s always been some sort of system of bartering stuff. I mean, like, it, it, it’s just something that people have created, like when we assign value to stuff, you know? And, um, uh, sometimes it’s tangible and sometimes it’s not. [00:43:00] But, um, I also wouldn’t say that I don’t, I think this was easy. I think this was one of those one-off things that I don’t expect to see again. Where you have like a bunch of, you know, self-described degenerates like banding together to buy stock that is Brett:Why don’t you think it would happen again? Christina:Because I don’t think, I think that this was one of those perfect storm things where you were able to get enough people together. I think that a, if you make it, like, if you do it too common, it is straight up market manipulation and is straight up an sec violation like period. Um, I don’t think that the editors are heroes at all. Like I’m not feeling bad for the hedge funders. I’m just I’m I’m I fuck them. I’ve I feel bad for all the people who’ve. Who bought in at $300 a share or $200 a share and have lost everything because they will never recover any of that money ever. Um, Brett:that part to me. Who, who, who lost out besides the hedge fund? [00:44:00] Christina:every single, like normal person who bought in when it was over, it is currently $92 a share, which is up $2 from when it closed. It closed it at 90 yesterday. It is so, but that it was yesterday, it was down 60%. From it’s open. And that was, you know, it was down like a further 30% from like, um, you know, the previous week. So it is, it is lost, um, like, like 70% of its value of its, of its high. So if you bought the stock, if you Brett took your $10,000 that you have, like your life savings, your MCL, your 401k, you did whatever, and you invested $10,000 and you bought it when it was $300 a share. Hoping that it would go to a thousand and go to the moon and you’d be able to make a nice profit. When people started selling because maybe they bought in lower. Maybe they got freaked out because at this point it’s not just regular retail investors. It’s regular, like it’s actual, and it’s not just hedge funds, but it’s actual, like, you know, [00:45:00] uh, regular institutional investors who were investing in it too. It’s it’s to make, you know, uh, bids and trades. When you want to sell, if you’re a retail investor, your trays go last your lowest of the totem pole, which means that when they execute the trades and that’s always how it’s worked, why this is, this is one of the reasons why Robin hood can have $0 trades. And these companies that we all hear about democratizing finance, which is bullshit. I frankly think that there probably should be a little bit of a barrier to entry. I realize that’s unpopular, but. The reason I say that is because if this is what’s going to happen, so you put your $10,000 in, you buy it at $300 a share. It is now $90 a share. So if you have now lost two thirds of your investment, It is never going to be $300 a share because it’s not, the company is not worth that the company doesn’t have the assets worth that. So you’ve lost at bare minimum. You’ve lost $7,500. Okay. So, or, or, or whatever, so, or, or $6,600, whatever the case may be. So you’ve lost two thirds of your investment [00:46:00] period. It’s more than likely going to continue to fall. We don’t know when, but it’s going to continue to fall. So. The people that are losing money are the people who were part about run-up to get it to that, that all time high price, because they were consumed by the meat. They were consumed by the idea of, Oh yeah. We’re taken on the shorts, which I’m not a fan of some of the policies around shorting and I’ve, I’ve argued kind of against them. I think there should be certain regulations. Like, I don’t think you should be able to short more shares than exist, but. I will concede that shorting is, is part of like a healthy market requirement. Like you need to have that, that push and pull. Um, you don’t have to feel good about it, but it is one of those things that is like a natural part of, of any sort of economic system. So the people I feel bad for are the people who are posting their losses and they call it loss porn, who, some of them have lost everything. Some of them were okay with it. Some of them, I guarantee you are [00:47:00] not. And, and that’s, that’s why I’m mad at like Melvin capital. No one gave a shit about Melvin capital. That’s a small potatoes hedge fund. They were worth like $3 billion. It’s nothing, um, in, in hedge funds firms. Uh, but it’s not like I realized that. Do you like to, you. Brett:to hear. Christina:I agree, but it’s genuinely nothing. They got a loan, which we don’t know the terms of, but I’m sure that the terms were very advantageous to, you know, the, the actual, real, like institutional, like mega, you know, giant core hedge fund that loaned the money. Um, they got a loan, they got out of their position. They, they say that they. Exited and they took a loss and now they’re going to have to make up their, their gains and other ways. And, and, you know, they, they probably wiped out their losses for the year and, and, and they’re hurting, but it’s, they will live to trade another day. Right. The people who won’t are the regular people who have now potentially lost their life savings like that, that’s what bothers me. [00:48:00] So, Brett:makes sense. Christina:so, so, so that’s where I that’s, that’s where I kind of get like bothered by it because. The stock is not worth what it’s worth the company. Like, and at this point you now have this weird thing where like, you see the people who are on those boards, who are encouraging everybody to hold almost like it’s a religious sort of thing, because they’re like, we can hold longer than they can. I’m like, okay, you don’t realize that people who had the super heavy, short interest that you were against. Most of those people have already left. And if there’s new short interest, that’s new people, who’ve decided to, to look at it and be like, yeah, you know what? I still think that this is a shit company. I think that this is insane and I’m still making a bet that it will be, it will not close, you know, above this price on this date. Um, so I don’t know. I mean, I feel like it was a really good, it was like a really clever thing that happened. I don’t know if we’ll ever see it happen again [00:49:00] in this way, but I just I’m deeply concerned for the regular people who didn’t do it for the LOLs. Cause like the 8 million people who were in that separate at aren’t all doing it for the LOLs, plenty of them are doing it because they want to make money. And we’re thinking, this is a shore thing, investment. And they’re, they’re seeing this, this stock go up and up and up and I’m like, yeah, I’m gonna throw my money in. And it’s like, You just straight up gambled and flush your money down the toilet. Like, Brett:sell high though. Like Christina:well, you can try. And what that is is that when you sell, especially if you have a large position, that’s going to lower the price every time. Now, the smaller retail investors could have gotten out and some of them might have the problem though, is like I said, your trades go last. So if you got in on Thursday and you bought like a position. Um, or, or I guess maybe Wednesday. Cause because Robin hood, I think, um, uh, shut stuff down or re deeply limiting how many shares people could buy on Thursday and they were doing this [00:50:00] to protect their own risk. It wasn’t because they were protecting the hedge funds is because they legally have to show a certain amount of solvency if people, um, lose, like they have to, to be able to have that money on hand, like so that they don’t fail. So. If you got it on a Wednesday last week and you know, you got in low enough. And, um, like, but even then, like, I think it was over $200 a share on, on Wednesday. So let’s say you got in like a week ago and you got in at like $70 a share. Yeah. When it hit, you know, $300, you could execute a sell order and you might’ve been able to get out. Now it might’ve sold at 300, but it might’ve sold at like. Two 95 or two 90, you know, it, it varies depending on when they could execute that trade for you, but the longer that it goes on the further behind you are everybody else. So. You know, it’s not one of those things like where you can just time it perfectly. And I mean, this, [00:51:00] this is where high-frequency trading comes into place because they have our rhythms. And this is how most people are making shitloads of like professional investors are making shitloads of money. Now it’s all computers, they’re all they’re figuring out. They’re watching every micro percentage timing and they’re trying to make the times on their trades exactly. To. You know, benefit, you know, UN UN you know, within like fractions of a second, you know, to, to be able to, uh, to, to buy and sell, to get the most advantageous timings. But it’s not just that easy. It’s like, okay, because if it hit, you know, $400, no matter how much plenty of people are saying on Reddit, Oh, I’m at a hold, go to the moon and go to the moon. It’s like, no, plenty of people are gonna look at that and be like, Oh no, I want out. And, and so then you have a whole rush of orders and. They have to, they have to get, um, fulfilled. And like I said, retail investors, and this is how it’s, I’m not saying it’s fair. I’m just saying this is reality. Like are always last always. Brett:so there were people who won though, right? There were people who benefited [00:52:00] from this Christina:Yeah. I mean, sure. Just like any Ponzi scheme, like there are. But I’m serious. Like they’re all the whole reason that, that, that those things work. And I’m not saying this is a Ponzi. I’m saying that it has a lot of the same qualities of a Ponzi scheme. And what I mean by that is that for a Ponzi scheme to work, you have to have real winners. That’s why people buy into it. Right? Because there are actual real winners. Um, Bernie Madoff was a Ponzi scheme, but he made it look like it was an actual. Hedge fund and investment fund. Like that was his kind of gift, right? Like, but those people up until the bottom fell out, people were making real money and I’m sure that there were plenty, not plenty, but I’m sure that there were a number of clients at Bernie Madoff’s who at some point, decided to just take their money out and go elsewhere and be like, you know what? I profited enough, I don’t need this. Um, but the majority of the people were just like trusted him and. We’re like, you know, we’ve had these returns, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve done well on this. And didn’t realize that, you know, leaving their money, that he was a [00:53:00] criminal and, and that, that, you know, his, his books were cooked. But yeah, so there are some people who have made real money off of this, but that’s, that’s a, a much smaller percentage. Like then all the people who are holding the bag when it’s gonna eventually probably. I don’t know how long it’ll take, but you know, it probably settle it like $16 or $10 or whatever. Um, which again, if you bought it at $200, Brett:the schemes originator. Use Reddit username is unprintable and a family paper claims to have turned an initial investment of $50,000 into a windfall of more than 40 million. So there is a winner. Christina:Well, yeah, because a piece he didn’t sell the whole thing, so, or he claims which would be so fucking stupid. He claims he still held it. So he lost like $6.7 million yesterday. He lost like three point something million, three before. So like that windfall, I think is down to like $10 million now, [00:54:00] still nothing to seize that. Brett:million is so fucking win. Christina:I agree with you, but, but like, and he’s an actual, like, he was really, really smart and he’s, he’s figured out a way to do, you know, to gain the system. And he started buying it in 2019. Like he’s. Also he’s a financial advisor. Like he’s, he’s not just like some Schmoe, right? Uh, which, which is also part of the narrative, which is like the, like the uneducated masses are, are sticking it to like, you know, the, the, the so-called professionals. It’s like, no, actually like somebody who knows how this stuff works, saw a loophole in the system. And then wasn’t able to galvanize, um, a group of people into, you know, Position, um, smart guy. Like I’m not saying that what I think is dumb. Like if I’m him, there’d be no way that I would continue holding once it was like approaching $400 a share over $400 a share. I would sell my whole position because $50,000 of his initial investment [00:55:00] that that’s not that many shares. Right? Like that’s, that’s not enough to, to cause like an immediate kind of. Sell off thing. Um, there had been, there was a South Korean hedge fund who’d owned like 6% of GameStop and, and they weren’t shorting it. They just they’d bought it when it, when it was cheap, they sold their whole position last week and they cited like the market volatility, but they sold on Friday. So they made billions, um, which. So, you know, it’s great. There’s one guy made like $10 million or however much it’s going to come out for whenever he sells. And I hope that he sells before it, you know, like completely implodes, uh, for his sake. But also this is like the fucked up thing. Like I’m not trying to be a downer on anybody, but like the, the people who I’m looking at who actually really one is that South Korean hedge fund who had 6% of the company and made billions on their investment. Brett:How do you know all this stuff? Christina:Oh, I studied finance in college. Brett:Why was that a major? [00:56:00] Christina:Was well, then became a minor, but yeah. Brett:Wow. I didn’t know that. Christina:Yeah. I thought that I wanted to do finance as a career, and then I realized that I didn’t have the stomach for it. Brett:Huh? That’s uh, I’ve learned something new about you. This didn’t even come up on our, our Christina:I know an unsystematic. I know. I know. Well, it’s so rare that I ever get to talk about this stuff. Um, like, so the last week I’ve been thinking a lot more heavily about. So, and to be clear, like I’m not an expert, I’m not anybody’s financial advisor, my own finances and investments are not great. Um, I did almost buy, introduce coin last week at the height of the insanity. Um, and the clear light of day I didn’t, then that was glad I didn’t, but like, it was one of those things where I was like, there’d be no way I would invest anything in GameStop, but when the doge coin stuff started going up, it was one of those things where I thought I might be able to time it. Right. Because Brett:had a little bit of Ambien. Christina:Oh, totally. 100%. I would have lost like $2,000. Cause that was the [00:57:00] maximum I was willing to put into, into any of that. I didn’t, I didn’t do it though. And I’m glad I didn’t. Um, uh, ironically though, the reason I didn’t was because I couldn’t get on any of the exchanges. To buy the stuff and like the, the, the few like exchanges that work in the U S that would like let you directly buy doge with, with USD, um, were like completely, like almost DDoSs because so many people were trying to get into it to buy doge and Robin hood like takes a week to approve your money and your accounts and all that stuff. And so it was one of those things where I was just like, um, I wasn’t able to get in on it that night. And I’m glad I didn’t, because it was already high. See, what had happened is it had gone up some enormous percent and I was like, okay, if it went up even like another, like, like 20%, um, I could make a couple hundred dollars if, if I [00:58:00] was able to time it. Right. Um, clearly I wasn’t, I didn’t get in on it, which is good. Um, like a lot about that, but. In that was just a purely like greed. Like the market is insane. People are, are, people have lost their minds. I’m going to jump on the crazy train to sort of thing. And then, um, the system ironically saved me because of all the different loopholes you have to go through to, uh, your hoops. You have to jump through rather to do that stuff. It made it impossible to do because the only way I would have been able to buy a dose easier, what would have been like I would have had to. Buy some Bitcoin, um, at an inflated price, because if you want it to get it like instantly, then you have to pay like more or whatever. And then I would have had to convert that Bitcoin to doge. And it was one of those things that was like my margin, my potential margin of profit would have been so minuscule anyway, that I, I, I was, my fear was I was like, I’ll lose it on whatever [00:59:00] the Bitcoin conversion is from, you know, whatever my. Over the counter Bitcoin price would be. So, um, I, I didn’t get in on doge, which again, good. Um, but yeah, I’m just concerned. Like I’m happy for like some of the, again, they self describes itself as like degenerates, who who’ve made money on this. Like good for them. I’m really concerned with all the normal people who are going to be holding the bag when this very fucked company ultimately crashes back to earth. Brett:this week, we hit on a topic that you can speak as deeply on as you can about like nine Oh two one Oh. Christina:I know Brett:didn’t realize that I, your depth, it never ceases to amaze me. Christina:you’re sweet. Brett:This stuff makes my head spin. And I find it almost as interesting as I find 902 one Oh, which is to say, Christina:Right? Brett:just. No, I’m not saying, I’m not saying what you’re saying is boring. You’re [01:00:00] actually making it interesting. But finance in general, Christina:Oh, yeah. Brett:I, my brain just shuts off when, whenever my own finances or any finance Christina:Oh yeah. Oh no, it can be death. It can be like ridiculously boring. I think honestly, like my whole like drawn to it was often like the weird narratives, like, uh, and the drama around stuff. Right, right. Like, totally. Like, I think that was really kind of like the appeal to me. And then, yeah. I learned about it. I was like, Oh, this is, this is all numbers. And this is a lot of math and this is a lot of like timing and it’s kind of a game, cause it is a game and it’s kind of like a high stakes video game. Um, and uh, but then I kinda realized like, as I went through and I, after I’d taken many classes, I was like, yeah, I don’t, I don’t think the, I don’t think this is for, uh, I don’t think this is for me. Brett:we, uh, we, we went and we have this, this topic on our list Christina:We’re going to talk about it next week. Brett:it has been moving from week to week for like [01:01:00] six episodes Christina:I know, I know, but I have like a new thing. I got like a bigger device that I want to talk about that I have, that I have on loan that I have on, um, on loan for review. So next week I will, we’ll talk about it Brett:be at the top of our list next week. We won’t talk about anything until we talk about that. Christina:No, that sounds really good. Brett:Okay. Well that was, that was a rollercoaster episode that you pulled off, despite lack of medication. Christina:I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Um, it’s weird overtired, but I think a good one, Brett:I feel, I feel like it, it fits if it’s the mold, not like classic, not like retro over tired, but this is, this is just what we are. Christina:honestly. Um, no Taylor Swift, but that’s okay. Brett:Yeah, I’m okay with it. She, she she’s in a television commercial with her car with a closet full of cardigans. And I, I barely understand the reference. Christina:she has a song called cardigan and [01:02:00] yeah, Brett:I didn’t know. Does it run deeper than that? Does she actually have a deep abiding love of the cardigan sweater? Christina:No, I think, I think that it was just capital. I think that capital one wanted to run an ad with her. My mother-in-law did get me that cardigan for my birthday though, which was really sweet Brett:You know what commercials are pissing me off? I can’t even remember, it’s an insurance company, uh, Christina:It is because this was the only commercial Geico. Brett:right? Those are the only commercials on TV, but Geico is making a whole marketing campaign out of bad puns. And if I had known there was like money to be had making bad puns, I would have gone into advertising, but it’s upsetting. It’s just upsetting. Christina:It’s also upsetting because Geico has had so many good ads over the years. Brett:well, there are a lot of insurance commercials that I enjoy. The flow commercials are getting they’re played out and this whole new [01:03:00] team they brought in, I’m not loving, uh, it’s all cell phones and insurance though. Oh, and there’s a, a lot of drug ads, Christina:Oh yeah. And, Brett:for this side effects portion, but Christina:and pillows. Brett:pillows, you get pillow ads. Christina:No, no. I was making a joke with the, my pillow guy. Brett:Okay. Yeah. I’ll let it go. Well, Christina, I hope you get your meds filled. Christina:Thank you. Thank you. And, um, I, uh, get some sleep, Brett hope we’ll be able to continue to have a good week. I will hopefully get some good sleep. Brett:I’m on a helix mattress. No, that’s me. Christina:No, that’s you. You’re going to get your great night’s sleep on a helix mattress. I’m going to beat be jealous from, from my non helix mattress. Brett:get some sleep, Christina. Christina:Get some sleep prep.