The Pivot

In this episode of The Pivot, host Andrew Osenga welcomes singer/songwriter and author Sarah Kroger. Sarah opens up about overcoming people-pleasing and perfectionism, a belief that extended to her relationship with God. Through therapy and self-reflection, Sarah reveals how she discovered the gift of boundaries, understanding it as an act of self-love and protection. This powerful pivot transformed her personal life, allowing her to embrace her identity as a writer and artist with authenticity. Join Andrew and Sarah for a conversation that delves into faith, creativity, friendships, and mentorship. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “If you don’t change your mind, like from when you were in your twenties to when you’re in your teens to now, then you haven’t been paying attention.’ - Sarah Kroger“I believed that it was my responsibility to make people happy. I am a recovering people pleaser and perfectionist.” - Sarah Kroger “I come back to that word ‘agency’ because for so much of my life, it was just deferential. Any opinions, any decisions, it was always what other people wanted—to maintain peace, or ‘peace faking,’ as my therapist likes to call it.” - Sarah Kroger“The longest relationship of your life is with yourself. If you don’t learn how to like yourself, like being around yourself, and healing your relationship to yourself, it’s going to be a problem.” - Sarah Kroger“There’s a lot that unites us and divides us and a lot of beauty that we can find on both expressions of the faith.” - Sarah Kroger “For so, so long, I thought that the goal was to be perfect. And the more that I’ve let that go in life, the more I’ve been able to connect, because no one’s perfect." - Sarah Kroger“Doubt is a part of the fabric of trying to be a faithful Christian. I think it’s a huge part of this life and journey and it’s totally okay, acceptable, real, honest, and good.” - Sarah Kroger Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:Books:My Beloved Child: Words of Love From the Father by Sarah KrogerBelovedness: Overcoming Your Inner Critic (A Lyrical Devotional) by Sarah KrogerHow to Remember: Forgotten Pathways to Authentic Faith by Andrew OsengaMusic:A New Reality (specifically the song “No Filter”)Anchor Hymns Project (specifically the songs “How Precious Your Presence” and “The Garden”)“Belovedness” by Sarah KrogerOrganizations/Programs:The Fold (creative writing retreat/experience)Faithful Project *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.  Guest’s Links: Sarah’s websiteSarah’s InstagramSarah’s XSarah’s FacebookSarah’s YouTubeSarah’s TikTok Connect with Andrew: WebsiteYouTubeSubstackSpotifyFacebookInstagramHow to Remember by Andrew OsengaHold the Light by Andrew Osenga *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

This week on The Pivot, we’re joined by our long-time friend, the incredibly talented musician and songwriter, Andy Gullahorn. While Andy is still a full-time musician—a career he’s passionately pursued for years—he’s approaching it in wonderfully different ways. We dive into the stories behind his fantastic new record, Winning Streak, and how his unique approach to songwriting often includes those signature left hooks that can make you laugh and cry in the same breath. Andy shares insights into the unexpected circuit of his career, from playing music at intensive therapy retreats where he now co-leads small groups, to the hilarious and heartfelt origins of “grinching” (yes, it involves Christmas trees and a U-Haul), and the enduring tradition of the hi-five with his friend Gabe. We also learn about the joy of Silent Bob Euchre, a card game played in public places without speaking—a testament to Andy’s belief in the power of silly, shared experiences. Join us for a truly fun conversation that explores how Andy finds depth, connection, and even a bit of performance art in both his music and his wonderfully unconventional life. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I played the same stage after it was abandoned for thirty years, but that’s the kind of stuff people leave off of their bio—the second half of the sentence. But I have shared the stage with the Spice Girls.”  - Andy Gullahorn“I’ve always loved playing songs for people in the context of their life. I don’t really like getting in and leaving without knowing where I am.” - Andy Gullahorn“We called it grinching because it felt like you were shoving a Christmas tree up a chimney when you were trying to shove it into a Sienna. And then we would literally play ‘You’re A Mean One, Mr. Grinch’ on repeat in the car.”  - Andy Gullahhorn“If there’s something ridiculous you can do that is not harming anybody and some people are going to look at it and be like, ‘I don't understand it. That's weird.’ To me, it’s like a little art piece in the world. I try to collect that as much as I can.” - Andy Gullahorn Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:Andy Gullahorn’s new record, Winning Streak       Winning Streak (Vinyl + CD) - SIGNED OVERPAY - Andy Gullahorn“I Saw a Stranger With Your Hair” by John Gorka David Wilcox (musician)Pierce Pettis (musician)“The Chair” by George StraitSurfing for God by Mike Cusick  Guest’s LinksAndy Gullahorn’s websiteAndy Gullahorn’s FacebookAndy Gullahorn’s InstagramAndy Gullahorn’s XAndy Gullahorn’s YouTube *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.  Connect with Andrew: WebsiteYouTubeSubstackSpotifyFacebookInstagramHow to Remember by Andrew OsengaHold the Light by Andrew Osenga *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Welcome to The Pivot—relaunched! Joining us this week is Pete Enns, author, Abram S. Clemens professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, and cohost of The Bible For Normal People podcast. Pete emphasizes that his response to the question "What have you changed your mind about and why?" is constantly evolving, mirroring his own personal growth. He explores how embracing change respects both our human experience and individual journeys. The discussion also reveals how God, and faith broadly, accommodates questions rather than offering definitive answers. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I’ve changed my mind on a lot of things, and sometimes it’s still like, I used to know, but I don’t think I know that anymore. I used to think this, but now I think something differently. And that’s why I’m open to change about pretty much anything, even some of the most fundamental questions.” - Pete Enns“We live in a universe that is filled with mystery. The more we see things, the more we see what we don’t, and things that were certain become less certain, not because science is stupid, but because science is skeptical and it moves forward and it sees things and has to make measurements and tests.” - Pete Enns“I think primarily my goal is to let [people] know that the Christian world allows discussions and even encourages them, which is not what they hear on TV, like it’s one thing or nothing. God can handle it. Maybe God even likes the questions.” - Pete Enns“Evolving faith is redundant. Faith always evolves or changes. It never stays the same, because human beings, we’re growing, we’re developing.” - Pete Enns “I do not think about God the same way now that I did when I was 24, 25. How could you? You live, you breathe, you experience things.” - Pete Enns “God is always affected by our experiences and our intuitions. You’ve probably heard, ‘Don’t trust your intuitions, don’t trust your feelings. Those things are irrelevant.’ But that’s what makes us human. Our emotions, our experiences, our intuitions, are always involved in how we think about God. To accept that, I think, is just simply to honor our humanity.” - Pete Enns“The Bible is more of an invitation to communion than it is the divine answer book that answers all the questions we might have.” - Pete Enns Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:Marvel Cinematic UniverseTony StarkEastern UniversityChatGPTThe book of Job Ilya DelioVillanova UniversityAristotle Westminster Theological SeminaryReformationJohn CalvinThe Sin Of Certainty by Pete EnnsRachel Held EvansEvolving FaithIain McGilchristGreen Eggs and Ham by Dr. SeussWhat to Expect When You’re Expecting by Heidi MurkoffThe Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck  *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.  Guest’s Links: Pete Enns’ FacebookPete Enns’ InstagramPete Enns’ SubstackThe Bible for Normal People WebsiteThe Bible for Normal People TikTokThe Bible for Normal People FacebookThe Bible for Normal People InstagramThe Bible for Normal People YouTube Connect with Andrew: WebsiteYouTubeSubstackSpotifyFacebookInstagramHow to Remember by Andrew OsengaHold the Light by Andrew Osenga *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

It’s a brand new season for The Pivot—hosted by artist, producer, songwriter, and author Andrew Osenga. This podcast delves into the idea of changing our minds in an age of polarization and unyielding beliefs. The Pivot offers a space for honest, vulnerable, and intelligent conversations about the evolution of thought, belief, and life path. From personal growth to shifts in worldview, from navigating complex social issues to rediscovering spiritual truths, Andrew and his guests will explore the courageous journey of re-evaluation. This isn’t about promoting indecision, but celebrating the wisdom found in intellectual humility and authentic transformation; embracing the idea that It’s never too late to change your perspective.The Pivot is relaunching soon—to coincide with the release of Andrew’s first book: How to Remember: Forgotten Pathways to an Authentic Faith. Podcast episodes will be released weekly and video versions will also appear on YouTube. Subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode! Connect with Andrew: WebsiteYouTubeSubstackSpotifyFacebookInstagramHow to Remember by Andrew OsengaHold the Light by Andrew Osenga *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

If you follow a Christian woman between the ages of 20 and 40 on Instagram, then you’ve 1000% seen Morgan’s work. She does these beautiful, inspiring, super shareable quotes and thoughts over wonderful artwork and once they get to the internet they just go EVERYWHERE. I remember seeing Morgan play music once or twice when one of her previous careers overlapped with my orbit. But who would have thought that she’d one day call herself a POET and be doing what she’s doing now, running her own business with the books, journals, stickers, and who knows what else that flows from her current creativity. She’s got a new book that comes out next week called “How Far You Have Come” and I loved hearing the story of how this book came about. In fact, I loved our whole interview. I started this whole podcast because I was hearing a lot of stories of people’s big successes, but I was in the midst of my own personal failure, and I desperately needed to hear that my story wasn’t over. Her story is so inspiring because, while what she’s doing now is doing quite well, it’s a really human tale with a lot of wandering, failure, fear, questions and the tenacity of just NEEDING to keep trying until something works. I’m so glad it did. You can get Morgan’s new book, as well as the stickers and a bunch of other amazing things, plus her 4-minute daily podcast, at MorganHarperNichols.com Follow her on Instagram! Also, don’t forget to join the CHICKEN OF THE MONTH CLUB! FH.org/pivot And get your tickets to the WhiteOwlMusicFest - Jars, Sandra, me and a bunch of others at a socially distant music festival outside Nashville on May 29. Also, here’s a little Andy O music, too! Thank you all! Now go do something awesome.

MY GOODNESS. I loved this conversation. Douglas McKelvey is a most fascinating human. He’s the author of two incredible books of liturgies, the second actually releases this week and is called Every Moment Holy, Vol. 2: Death, Grief and Hope. He’s also a fantastic songwriter who doesn’t sing or play music, but has penned the lyrics to over 350 songs recorded by a variety of artists including Switchfoot, Kenny Rogers, Sanctus Real, and Jason Gray. He’s been a scriptwriter and video director and a lot of things in between. Like me, he’s a father of three daughters. Also, like me, he’s spent a lot of time doing whatever he could to just keep the lights on that, in retrospect, look like a full, inspiring and rich life. And that work history is only part of the story. Beyond that there’s a deeper narrative of bravely and intentionally moving away from isolation and towards friendship and community. Doug’s a decade or so ahead of me and he got his start in Nashville with a close little group of friends, led by Charlie Peacock, who have pretty much all become heroes and mentors of mine. All of that leads so clearly, now, to his work writing these liturgies in Every Moment Holy, and it is wonderful to see how astonishingly successful they are. These books mean a lot to a lot of people, and when you hear all the work and love that Doug puts into creating these, you’ll understand why. I’ll say it again at the end, but go to everymomentholy.com to order your copy of Every Moment Holy and the new Volume 2: Death, Grief and Hope. And please, friends, join us at the CHICKEN OF THE MONTH CLUB!!! Go to fh.org/pivot to sign up today! Get your tickets to the White Owl Music Fest!! Just outside of Nashville on May 29. Also, here’s a little Andy O music, too! Thank you all! Now go do something awesome.

Lynn Holloway was an Imagineer for Disney and has designed all kinds of amazing things, from theme parks to Danish parades to Super Bowl halftime shows. He’s a visual storyteller working in three dimensions and his work is fascinating. But this is really more of a love story; How a fear of intimacy left him in years of loneliness, and how finally facing those fears in the shadow of his father’s passing, set him on a new path towards love, family and healing. Unlike a lot of my guests, Lynn’s career has been a bit of a straight arrow. The pivot for him has been the life surrounding his job. This is a beautiful story and I deeply enjoyed this conversation. And please, friends, join us at the CHICKEN OF THE MONTH CLUB!!! Go to fh.org/pivot to sign up today! Get your tickets to the White Owl Music Fest!! Just outside of Nashville on May 29. Also, here’s a little Andy O music, too! Thank you all! Now go do something awesome.

After 20 years as a singer/songwriter, Jill Phillips went back to school to get her Masters in counseling and is now a full-time Marriage and Family therapist (who still plays music!) To anyone who knows Jill at all, this career transition is not surprising. She is an incredibly wise and empathetic friend to many, and even her songs are often based on the themes of carrying each other’s burdens, and holding grief and hope together in the same hand. We were originally going to do this interview in her new counseling office, so I could sit on her couch and, you know, get the full experience, but then it was a beautiful Spring day and we decided to just sit on their back porch and catch up. You might hear a few airplanes flying over, but you also might hear a lot of birds chirping, too. It was worth it. These days, when I see Jill, it’s usually while we’re working on music or in line at Ladybird Taco, so I’ve not gotten the full story until this chat. I’ve watched her sitting and doing homework in soundcheck the past four years, though, and it’s been inspiring to see how focused and driven she is on learning better and better how to love and care for people. Glad you guys hit play on this one, I think you’re really going to enjoy it. If you want to learn more about Jill or hear her wonderful music you can go to JillPhillips.com Get your tickets to the White Owl Music Fest!! Just outside of Nashville on May 29. And please, friends, join us at the CHICKEN OF THE MONTH CLUB!!! Go to fh.org/pivot to sign up today! Also, here’s a little Andy O music, if you’re interested… Thank you all! Now go do something awesome.

Rob Touchstone is co-founder of The Well Coffeeshop, a chain of non-profit coffeeshops who donate their profits to providing clean water wells to communities in poverty all over the world. (It’s also just a really good coffeeshop.) Besides that, Rob is an entrepreneur, a business professor, and a pastor here in Nashville, TN. This is a great story, how Rob moved from being a theologically trained youth pastor to the creator and Director of Lipscomb University’s Center for Business As Mission, where he teaches and mentors students to think missionally about business and entrepreneurship. A mutual friend connected Rob and I a few months ago and I’d like to think we became fast friends. I love the work that he’s doing and I’m so thankful for what he’s created here in Nashville. You can connect with Rob and find a lot of his teaching at RobTouchstone.com Or learn more about The Well Coffeehouse And aren’t you inspired to put some good into the world after listening to this? Go to FH.org/pivot and join the CHICKEN OF THE MONTH CLUB now. Join Food For The Hungry in giving a family some chickens and teaching them how to use them to bring flourishing and prospering to their communities. Also, here’s a little Andy O music, if you’re interested… Thank you all! Now go do something awesome.

David Zach is an abolitionist in a rock and roll band. He has traveled all over the world, going undercover to help rescue girls from slavery and sex trafficking. It’s a wild story. But 9-to-5, David is the frontman for the band, Remedy Drive. The band started as four brothers and we got to talk about how they had to quit being in a band together to be good brothers. It is also a pretty wild story. Maybe not quite as wild as going undercover in a Thailand nightclub. It was really fascinating to learn about the work David and the organization he’s a part of, Exodus Road, are doing in some of the most dangerous places on Earth. Get involved with David and The Exodus Road at remedydrive.com/action Watch this great short documentary on their work HERE. And definitely go listen to Remedy Drive’s new album, IMAGO AMOR. And please, friends, join us at the CHICKEN OF THE MONTH CLUB!!! Go to fh.org/pivot to sign up today! Also, here’s a little Andy O music, if you’re interested… Thank you all! Now go do something awesome.