

Ministry Deep Dive
Travis Michael Fleming
Ministry Deep Dive is a podcast from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics. Each episode goes beneath the surface of ministry to explore the challenges, opportunities, and practices shaping today’s leaders. From discipleship and cultural engagement to spiritual formation and public theology, we wrestle with the big questions and everyday realities pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders face.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Mar 8, 2023 • 1h 1min
#154 | The Dominance of Evangelicalism: The Age of Spurgeon and Moody, Pt. 1 | David Bebbington
We welcome British historian David Bebbington to the show! David Bebbington is one of the world's leading historians in the English-speaking world on the history of evangelicalism. He is a professor of History at the University of Stirling in Scotland and a distinguished visiting professor of history at Baylor University. He is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh and the Royal Historical Society. He is also a fan of quadrilaterals, American beef, and cars with rear-window windshield wipers :-)In this first part of our conversation, David takes us on a journey through the evangelical movement and how it was shaped by two of its greatest and most prestigious figures: Dwight Lyman Moody and Charles Haddon Spurgeon. He shows us how these two men shaped a great deal of evangelicalism as we know it today. He also discusses how cultural forces such as the Enlightenment and the Romantic period shaped our faith (and are still shaping it today), some of the characteristics that identify evangelicals, and the famous quadrilateral that bears his name. One of our most wonderful and geekiest of conversations, this conversation is informative, insightful, and fun. David acts as a trusted guide helping us see and understand what evangelicalism is, how we can trace its development, and how it is shaping us today.Get his biography written by his wife, Eileen Bebbington.Check out his Wikipedia bio.Get his book on Moody & Spurgeon.Check out some of his other books.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 3, 2023 • 48min
#153 | Cultural Counterfeits, Pt. 2 | Jen Oshman
Jen Oshman is back for this second part of our conversation as we continue to discuss her book, Cultural Counterfeits! Jen pulls back the curtain on some of the cultural counterfeits that have ensnared so many. They discuss personhood, the goodness of the body, sex, singleness, marriage, pregnancy, and a whole host of other issues!Jen helps uncover some of the counterfeits of our contemporary culture and then provides a way forward of true hope and joy. Jen acts as a guide on the journey of faith, showing what is good and exposing the counterfeit idols of our age that attempt to seduce and distract us from a pure devotion to Christ. It's an encouraging and insightful discussion into the counterfeit idols of our age. Learn more about Jen. Get the book and check out her other books. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 28, 2023 • 44min
#152 | Cultural Counterfeits, Pt. 1 | Jen Oshman
We welcome Jen Oshman to the show! Have you ever purchased something only to discover too late that it was a counterfeit, a fake? We all have! There are counterfeits everywhere, including in what we believe about the world. There are ideas that attempt to show themselves as fulfilling and satisfying but only lead to heartache and sorrow. Jen helps uncover some of the counterfeits of our contemporary culture and then provides a way forward of true hope and joy. Jen acts as a guide on the journey of faith, showing what is good and exposing the counterfeit idols of our age that attempt to seduce and distract us from a pure devotion to Christ. It's an encouraging and insightful discussion into the counterfeit idols of our age. Learn more about Jen. Get the book and check out her other books. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 24, 2023 • 48min
#151 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 2 | Kevin Vanhoozer
Part Deux! In the second part of the conversation, Travis and Kevin Vanhoozer continue their discussion on Scriptural and cultural illiteracy, hermeneutics, secular and sacred imagination, the divine story, and the state of the church today. His insights are like falling rain, ready to water a dry world!Be sure to check out #150: Deep Conversation w/ Kevin Vanhoozer: Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 1. Learn more about Dr. Vanhoozer and be sure to check out his site.Be sure to check out his books! Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 21, 2023 • 40min
#150 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 1 | Kevin Vanhoozer
We welcome Kevin Vanhoozer to the show! Kevin is one of the leading theologians in the world and talks with Travis about Scriptural and cultural illiteracy, hermeneutics, secular and sacred imagination, the divine story, and the state of the church today. It's a jam-packed conversation with brilliant truths and insights sure to inspire and encourage you to see and apply the Bible as well as fulfill the mission God has for you in your world. Learn more about Dr. Vanhoozer and be sure to check out his site.Be sure to check out his books! Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 17, 2023 • 1h 8min
#149 | Character and Cultural Currents | Anne Snyder
We welcome Anne Snyder to the show! Anne is the editor-in-chief of Comment Magazine and host of The Whole Person Revolution podcast and co-editor of Breaking Ground: Charting Our Future in a Pandemic Year. Prior to working at Comment, she worked for Laity Lodge, the H.E. Butt Foundation in Texas, the Ethics and Public Policy Center, World Affairs Journal, and the New York Times. She is a Senior Fellow at the Trinity Forum and a Fellow at the Urban Reform Institute and a trustee at Nyack College. She is the author of The Fabric of Character: A Wise Giver’s Guide to Renewing our Social and Moral Landscape (2019) and has been published in The Atlantic Monthly, the Washington Post, and Bittersweet Monthly. Anne spent the formative years of her childhood overseas. Upon returning to the U.S. she received her bachelor’s degree from Wheaton College (IL) and a master’s degree from Georgetown University. She currently lives in Washington, D.C.Travis and Anne discuss Anne's background, all things culture, the state of character formation, and God's work in the world. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 10, 2023 • 60min
#148 | Help and Hope in Your Suffering, Pt. 2 | Mark Talbot
It's time for part 2 of our conversation with Mark Talbot about suffering and how God intends it for our good. They continue their discussion of Mark's books When The Stars Disappear and Giving Me Understanding That I May Live. Having been paralyzed since an accident when he was 17, Mark doesn't come to the subject as a passive observer, but as an active participant. This is not a mere philosophical question or academic exercise, but the deep wrestling of a believer in Jesus trying to understand the question as to why a good God allows our suffering. It's a question that many of us ask ourselves. Suffering is the door that for many leads to Jesus or turns them away from Jesus. How shall we view our suffering? What does God want to show us about Himself in our suffering? These are just some of the questions that they discuss. Learn more about Mark and get his books.Listen to the first part of the conversation: #147: Deep Conversation w/ Mark Talbot | Help and Hope in Suffering, Pt. 1Some of our other episodes have addressed the subject of suffering, as well as trauma, and the stories of Scripture. Be sure to check out:#111: John Plake-Scripture Engagement, Trauma, and Transformation in Chaotic times. #112: Jami Staples-Truth, Trauma, and Transformation, Pt. 1#113: Jami Staples-Truth, Trauma, and Transformation, Pt. 2Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 3, 2023 • 58min
#147 | Help and Hope in Your Suffering, Pt. 1 | Mark Talbot
Travis welcomes Mark Talbot to the show! Mark is a professor of Philosophy of Wheaton College in Wheaton, IL. Travis and Mark tackle the difficult and unpleasant subject of suffering in the Christian life, especially chronic suffering. They discuss two of Mark's books, When The Stars Disappear and Giving Me Understanding That I May Live. They make up two volumes of what will be a four-volume set. This is a discussion centered on suffering as seen through the lens of Scripture. Having been paralyzed since an accident when he was 17, Mark doesn't come to the subject as a passive observer, but as an active participant. This is not a mere philosophical question or academic exercise, but the deep wrestling of a believer in Jesus trying to understand the question as to why a good God allows our suffering. Learn more about Mark and get his books.Some of our other episodes have addressed the subject of suffering, as well as trauma, and the stories of Scripture. Be sure to check out:#111: John Plake-Scripture Engagement, Trauma, and Transformation in Chaotic times. #112: Jami Staples-Truth, Trauma, and Transformation, Pt. 1#113: Jami Staples-Truth, Trauma, and Transformation, Pt. 2Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Jan 27, 2023 • 1h 1min
#146 | Faithful Disobedience, Pt. 2 | Hannah Nation
Part 2! Travis and Hannah continue their conversation on the Chinese Church and how what they are going through affects the church in the West. What lessons can we learn in our postmodern, comfort-addicted, materialistic, suffering-averse culture? What can we learn from our brothers and sisters on the side of the world? What role does suffering have to play in our Christian life? What role does it play in our discipleship?Hannah is the Executive Director of the Center for House Church Theology and discusses her newest book, Faithful Disobedience. Faithful Disobedience is about the Chinese House Church movement, and specifically pastor Wang Yi, who is in prison right now for speaking out against the Chinese government. He reminds us of a Chinese Dietrich Bonhoeffer. At Apollos Watered, we want to renew the church by creating missioholistic Christians, who are dedicated to accomplishing the mission of God in their specific context. Part of the missioholistic approach is bringing in global voices that help us out of our current cultural rut by showing us how they express the mission of God in their world. It's a must-listen conversation and one that will encourage you and challenge you to pursue the purpose of God with all of your heart wherever you are.Check out the first part of the conversation: #145: Hannah Nation | Faithful Disobedience, Pt. 1Get the book.Check out the Center for House Church TheologySign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Jan 20, 2023 • 56min
#145 | Faithful Disobedience, Pt. 1 | Hannah Nation
Travis welcomes Hannah Nation to the show! Hannah is the Executive Director of the Center for House Church Theology and discusses her newest book, Faithful Disobedience. Faithful Disobedience is about the Chinese House Church movement, and specifically pastor Wang Yi, who is in prison right now for speaking out against the Chinese government. What does a jailed Chinese pastor have to say to the church in the West? Plenty! Hannah helps us to hear some of the lessons that leaders from the Chinese House Churches have gleaned and what they mean for us in our lives today. We talk about suffering, the true nature of the church, and what it looks like to be faithfully disobedient who desperately wants to direct what we believe and how we live in our world today. Its a conversation about the truth, purity, and nature of the Gospel itself and how it changes people from the inside out. At Apollos Watered, we want to renew the church by creating missioholistic Christians, who are dedicated to accomplishing the mission of God in their specific context. Part of the missioholistic approach is bringing in global voices that help us out of our current cultural rut by showing us how they express the mission of God in their world. It's a must-listen conversation and one that will encourage you and challenge you to pursue the purpose of God with all of your heart wherever you are.Check out the second part of the conversation in #146: Deep Conversation w/ Hannah Nation | Faithful Disobedience, Pt. 2Get the book.Check out the Center for House Church TheologySign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!


