The Leadership Podcast

Mano Watsa is the President and Owner of PGC Basketball, the largest educational basketball camp in the world. PGC Basketball has taught over 125,000 players and coaches how to be leaders on and off the court. Mano brings his sports and business experiences to the podcast with stories and advice on thinking like a coach, communicating, and making a difference in people's lives. Listen to learn how to focus on the thing you can do best. "Part of the beauty of the game is your individual contributions combined with working together as a team … where five players become like a fist, not five individual fingers … and they play together as one." - Mano Watsa https://bit.ly/TLP-339 Key Takeaways [2:51] Mano's journey has been a joy, but anytime you're pursuing a vision, there are all sorts of challenges along the way, as well as opportunities. It's often the challenges that don't surface publicly. Mano has never seen a successful team or individual that has not had to overcome adversity, and he is no different. [4:20] PGC Basketball's founder, Dick DeVenzio, who played college basketball at Duke University and went on to play and teach the game across the world, created the Point Guard College with the point guard in mind. The point guard has to be the coach on the floor. They have to be able to run the show for their team and get their team to work together and play together. They have to "think the game." [5:01] PGC teaches players to be the smartest player on the floor by equipping them with how to think like a coach, how to make good decisions that lead to winning basketball, and how to lead their team. Jan and Jim recall guest Sam Walker's book, The Captain Class, on how the greatest sports teams in history have one thing in common, captains who were the coach on the floor. [6:13] Mano says PGC teaches players not only how to lead by example but to be effective communicators, inspire their teammates, hold teammates accountable, challenge them, and raise the standard for their teammates. Anyone leading a company, team, or family, is the point guard for that company, team, or family. [8:23] Jeremy Lin came to the NY Knicks and started the Linsanity era. Overnight Jeremy Lin was on the cover of nearly every magazine and was a household name as the first Asian-American in the NBA. Suddenly he's scoring 38 points against Kobe Bryant at Madison Square Garden. He had a successful 10-year NBA career. [9:08] Toward the end of Jeremy Lin's NBA career, Mano had the privilege and opportunity to support him in the realm of mindset and his approach. Mano has been inspired by Jeremy Lin's story, his passion, and his commitment to the game, giving back to the game and making a difference in the world. Jeremy Lin is now playing professionally in China. [10:18] John Wooden won 10 national championships at UCLA and was named Coach of the Century. John Wooden epitomized what it means to be a coach and make a difference in the lives of young players. Mano and his business partner at the time, Dena Evans, had the privilege once of spending a remarkable morning with Coach Wooden. They immediately wrote down all they had learned from him. [12:30] Jason Sudeikis revealed that having John Wooden's Pyramid of Success on the wall of Ted Lasso's office is purposeful. [13:30] Five players that work together can be more effective than five talented individuals who don't work together. Individual performers can significantly influence the outcome of the game, but they also depend on the performance of their teammates to determine the outcome of the game. It's a beautiful thing to see players willing to pass up a good shot for themselves for a great shot for a teammate. [15:38] Michael Jordan was the best player in the world. His teammates said they found it difficult to play with him because his standards were so high. He had competitive greatness. He was at his best when it was needed the most. It's helpful on a team to have a player that drives everyone toward winning. You need others who complement that person's nature to make sure everyone gets along. [19:30] Mano helped the Mully Children's Family organization in Kenya build a sports gymnasium. There are over 2,000 children under their care. Mano has been over there with them multiple times and loves their work. When he sees where these kids have come from and their optimism, even with what they lack, it gives Mano a perspective of gratitude and wanting to make a difference in the lives of others. [21:05] Denny Crum, former coach of the University of Louisville, was honored recently. One of his players stated that they never saw him get upset. He never yelled at his players. They called him Cool Hand Luke. He was always encouraging and supportive. He was a teacher to his team. [22:01] PGC founder Dick DeVenzio taught to use a six-to-one ratio of encouragement to constructive criticism. It's a lofty standard. As a coach or leader, it's so easy to see where others may be falling short but people thrive off encouragement. Connect with team members before correcting them. Always make deposits before you make withdrawals. As leaders and parents, think about the "bank account." [24:15] Great coaches don't try to make everything a priority. If you try to make everything a priority, nothing is a priority. You can't be great at everything, on the court or in business. But you can be great and world-class in something. You have to let some things go and focus on others. [25:02] Great coaches don't single players out unnecessarily. This goes for leaders and parents, too. Praise publicly and criticize privately. Good coaches and business leaders do a good job of not embarrassing and humiliating their people. They praise publicly and if they have to give criticism, they do so quietly and privately. [25:43] Great coaches don't hold back when they're wrong. They're willing to admit mistakes. That takes humility and vulnerability, in practice and games. Get beyond your ego. Be willing to admit you don't have it all together. [26:56] At PGC, they follow a commitment-based culture. Part of Mano's commitment statement is that he's a joyful work in progress. Accepting himself as a joyful work in progress allows Mano to admit mistakes and admit that he will always be a work in progress. [27:38] Past guest, Michael Bungay Stanier, told of a Legos bridge-building problem. Most people added pieces to solve the problem but the most expedient solution was to remove a piece. What's on your plate? What are you going to take off your plate? Mano notes that when we say "yes" to something, we say "no" to every other alternative. That helps him to be discerning about what he says "Yes" to. [29:18] Mano decided recently that if it's not a "Hell, yeah!" it's a "No." One of the mistakes Mano made in the early years of growing PGC was wanting to pursue every opportunity. In attempting to pursue every opportunity, they didn't maximize any given opportunity. Mano learned as he grew as a leader to stop good things to focus on a great thing. [31:54] As coaches or business leaders, you can't give all the encouragement that your players or staff need. To fill the gap, PGC introduced celebrations. Every staff meeting, no matter how many meetings are in a day, starts with 60 to 90 seconds of gratitude. It's an opportunity for somebody to acknowledge a thing or project that the team or an individual has done well. People encourage each other. [34:50] Mano frequently tells his staff, "If you're winning at work but losing at home, you're losing." Mano and PGC care about the staff as human beings and want them to win at home. If someone is not winning at home, their work will be compromised because everything bleeds over. When you're at home, shut off work, slow down, and be present with family. [36:04] After reading In Praise of Slowness, Mano stopped college coaching to focus on PGC. He wanted to be present for his family. Another decision he made with his family was to limit the participation of their children in sports and activities. Their highest value was in spending dinner time together as a family and playing together. They prioritized family time over competitive sports. [39:02] Mano's listener challenge: As business leaders, we must ensure that we're doing everything possible to support our employees and teams. One of the ways we can do that is by helping to ensure that they're able to bring their best possible selves to work each day. [39:24] For employees to bring the best version of themselves, they need to feel cared for, supported, and encouraged, and they need to be given space because if we're just driving them hard all the time, we're going to wear them down, especially in this world where many people just don't feel settled. We can create a good environment while pursuing goals and lofty objectives and still helping our people. [41:21] Closing quote: Remember, "Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do." — John Wooden Quotable Quotes "I've never come across a winning team, or anyone who's been highly successful in anything, that hasn't had to overcome significant adversity. And I'm certainly no different than that, in terms of adversities." — Mano "We like to think that a point guard isn't just a position on a basketball court. Somebody leading a company is the point guard of their team. A quarterback is the point guard of their football team. … If you're leading a family, you are the point guard of your family." — Mano "The point guard has to be able to influence behavior in order to get desired outcomes. They have to be able to lead and communicate effectively." — Mano "The beauty of the game [of basketball] is that five players who work together can be more effective and more successful than five talented individuals who don't work together." — Mano "In basketball, it's a small enough team that you can significantly impact the outcome of the game by your individual performance but you can't entirely impact the outcome because you have to be dependent on your teammates." — Mano "Part of the beauty of the game is your individual contributions combined with working together as a team … where five players become like a fist, not five individual fingers … and they play together as one." — Mano "There are so many life lessons that come out of the game when players are willing to put aside their individual agendas for the betterment of the team." — Mano "You need a range of diverse personalities to really make a team as effective as it can be. But to have somebody that drives winning and drives outcomes is really, really valuable." — Mano "People thrive off encouragement. No one has ever received too much appreciation or too much encouragement. And one of the principles that we teach to coaches … is connect before you correct." — Mano "Every good leader … looks for opportunities to celebrate, to acknowledge, to praise, to encourage, and appreciate far more often than they do providing any constructive criticism." — Mano "It actually builds trust when we're willing to be vulnerable when we're willing to demonstrate that level of humility. It's hard because it requires getting beyond ourselves and it requires getting beyond our ego." — Mano "One of the things I've realized, both in business and in my personal life: I just don't have it all together." — Mano "When we say 'yes' to something, we're actually saying 'no' to every other possible alternative." — Mano "If it's not a 'Hell, yeah!' it's a 'no.'" — Mano "What gets scheduled gets done." — Mano Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Mano Watsa PGC Basketball Dick DeVenzio The Captain Class: The Hidden Force That Creates the World's Greatest Teams, by Sam Walker Jeremy Lin NY Knicks John Wooden VIP's Cafe John Wooden's Pyramid of Success Ted Lasso Michael Jordan Documentary The Last Dance on Netflix Michael Jordan Phil Jackson Look: A Practical Guide for Improving Your Observational Skills, by James H. Gilmore The Mully Children's Family Denny Crum and Louisville Basketball Michael Bungay Stanier In Praise of Slowness: Challenging the Cult of Speed, by Carl Honore

Leigh Ann Rodgers is the CEO and Founder of Better Teams, and is driven to positively impact corporate culture and cultivate happy, high-performing teams. She is also the host of Leading Better Teams podcast. In this episode, Leigh Ann shares thoughts on accountability, bonding/connection, and why virtual teams require extra work to build connections. Listen in for how to build strong virtual connections! https://bit.ly/TLP-338 Key Takeaways [1:58] Leigh Ann volunteers three days a week at a local animal sanctuary for farm animals. There are pigs, horses, donkeys, goats, and cats. It's a beautiful little farm tucked into a forest. Leigh Ann feeds them and puts the hay out. It's a peaceful place. Leigh Ann does the afternoon shift. The early morning shift scoops the poop, so Leigh Ann is happy to go in the afternoon. [4:06] If members of a team are not being accountable to each other, the first thing to find out is why they are not. Leigh Ann says most of the time there is fear. It's a risky thing to hold a peer accountable. It may lead to them not liking you, retaliation, or conflict. [4:57] How do we create a culture and create trust where people want to hold each other accountable and want to be held accountable? It would be a culture where team members don't see accountability as a threat but as a way of teaming together to help everyone be the best that they can be. [6:04] One person can influence a team to a degree, depending on their status within the team. [7:17] The leader establishes the culture. The leader can tell the team that it is expected for them to have difficult conversations with each other instead of coming to the leader. It starts with the leader setting the tone and the expectation for open, candid conversation, with good intention, to help each other be their best. That requires real feedback. The leader also needs to reward that behavior. [9:55] If team members are unwilling to hold each other accountable, Leigh Ann loves the ADKAR model for changing behavior. Leigh Ann focuses on the first three aspects: Is the person Aware of their behavior? Do they Desire to change? Do they Know how to change? That's where Leigh Ann starts to figure out why a person is not willing to engage in difficult conversations. [11:50] One of the principles in Leigh Ann's Better Teams training is Readiness. The first element of Readiness is having the right equipment, tools, and resources. If you don't have those, advocate for yourself. The second element is competence and skill sets. Advocate for the competencies you need. It may involve getting a mentor. The third element is being adaptive, flexible, and agile. Can you pivot? [12:59] Leigh Ann relates being adaptive to stress levels. People are fairly adaptive but when stress levels get high, we begin to get less adaptive and flexible. When there's a lot of uncertainty, we start to crave certainty, which makes any new change feel bigger than it even may be. Recognize when your stress levels are high and advocate for ways to increase certainty so you can be flexible. [14:18] Instead of advocating for the organization to provide something for you, it is better for you to provide the tools, training, skills, and more to better yourself for the job you have or future roles. Advocating for yourself may become a barrier to doing something for yourself that is well within your capability. [15:09] Leigh Ann clarifies the difference between you managing your self-improvement and advocating for yourself to have the company provide an important solution that will benefit the company while benefiting you. What you can do without guidance or leadership, do independently. [16:38] Jan notes that past guest Kim Cameron, spoke a lot about abundance versus scarcity. As we come out of a pandemic, we hear more from our guests about abundance than scarcity. Maybe people are more open-minded than they were. Jan invites you, the listener, to connect on social media about trends you are seeing. And Jan is proposing a prize if somebody listens to all past episodes of the show! [18:11] Jan cites an HBR 1998 article on trust in the virtual team. Trust in virtual teams has been a topic for a while. [18:34] Leigh Ann says some teams are getting human connection right, and some are not doing as well. People need to feel bonded to the people they are working with. Many people miss being in the office with other people. It takes so much more effort to build a meaningful connection on a group call. When you disconnect from the call, you disconnect from the people. [19:56] Before the podcast started recording, Jan, Jim, and Leigh Ann were connected, talking about themselves. They were connecting and building rapport before starting the podcast. When meeting virtually, ask about each other. [21:30] Some individuals and teams want deeper connections and some do not. It has to be managed case by case. Leigh Ann is reading about oxytocin in the book Habits of a Happy Brain. Oxytocin makes us feel connected and bonded. It is released when you come together and start to feel that you know who people are a little bit more and you feel safe with each other. [22:43] When teams get together and do some sort of meaningful team exercise where they're really getting to know each other in a safe way and as they want to, it creates that sense of bonding that may not be there if you're just coming together running down a spreadsheet. We need to create spaces for teams to actually share what they want to about themselves and create that sense of connection. [23:13] Leigh Ann suggests building, even virtually, times for teams to come together with a little structure for teams to share and learn about each other. A simple example is to ask team members to bring with them an object that symbolizes something that they value highly. [23:50] Leigh Ann remembers someone bringing in a medal from running in a triathlon, and how running was part of her health journey. Another person brought in something that symbolized a medical challenge they had and a conversation that helped people on the team understand the person better. The team suddenly saw each other in a new dimension which made them more human to each other. [24:51] Another exercise is a DiSC® communication workshop. What are the different ways in which we like to communicate? Are you direct? Do you like to ask questions? [25:19] Doing some really meaningful team exercises like this allows people to get to know each other. Not necessarily sharing all their deep, dark family secrets, but it's a way to learn about each other and what makes people tick, and create that sense of bonding and closeness we don't get from typical business meetings. [26:18] You can get people together for celebrations. We tend to celebrate success and meeting goals. We celebrate outcomes. Dr. Carol Dweck focuses on growth mindset. How do we celebrate the effort, even if we fall short of the goal? We should celebrate growth, effort, and learning in addition to outcomes. It's also important to celebrate individual contributions and specialties each person brings. [29:04] On the farm where Leigh Ann volunteers, each of the 25 volunteers brings something unique. One volunteer loves to paint. She painted sayings all over the farm and created the farm calendar. One volunteer is meticulous with order and structure. It's important to celebrate the unique contributions of each person on your team. That makes them feel special and increases their serotonin, by the way. [30:32] Leigh Ann tells how she beat the doldrums. Although she loves what she does, she noticed last year she was getting "the blahs." She had to do some soul-searching to figure it out. She had stopped learning and growing and needed some new things to play into her strengths. She did a lot of learning and coaching with people, reading, and writing that helped her energize again. She got curious! [32:40] Jan and Jim noticed that at the beginning of the pandemic, leaders were energized by the crisis. After 18 months, the same leaders were fired. They couldn't react anymore, they had to step back and think. They had to be proactive. We're still in that stage, where people are planning and budgeting and projecting what will happen. Jan directs people to what they value. [33:33] Leigh Ann often asks people to ask themselves "What do you want?" and "What do you need?" That's the beginning to find out how you get to that. [34:23] Leigh Ann's listener challenge: Put pen to paper, think about, and first ask yourself, what do you want and what do you need? If you're not sure, grab a coach to help you think that through. Do some self-reflection and figure it out. Second, ask how you get out of your way. Third, ask how you prioritize and plan to get there. Leigh Ann has sessions starting in January that can help you through this. [36:13] Closing quote: Remember, "Individual commitment to a group effort — that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work." — Vince Lombardi Quotable Quotes "How do we create a culture and create trust where people want to hold each other accountable and want to be held accountable? And they don't see it as a threat. They see it as a way of teaming together to help everyone be the best that they can be." — Leigh Ann "In general, people are fairly adaptive but when stress levels get really high, we begin to get less adaptive and flexible. When there's a lot of uncertainty, we start to crave certainty, which makes any new change feel bigger than it even may be." — Leigh Ann "We've got to figure out ways to create spaces for teams to actually share what they want to about themselves and create that sense of connection and bonding and I think we've got to build that in, even more than just, 'How are you doing?'" — Leigh Ann "Doing some really meaningful team exercises … allows people to get to know each other. And not necessarily for sharing all their deep, dark family secrets, but it's a way to learn about each other and what makes people tick, and create that sense of bonding." — Leigh Ann "Take time to put pen to paper and think about what you want and what you need. … And if you're really not sure, grab a coach. A coach can help you think that through, as well, but do some self-reflection and figure that out." — Leigh Ann Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Leigh Ann Rodgers Better Teams Team Consultant Academy Leading Better Teams podcast Change management (including ADKAR) Kim Cameron Organization — Trust in Virtual Teams, HBR Habits of a Happy Brain: Retrain Your Brain to Boost Your Serotonin, Dopamine, Oxytocin, & Endorphin Levels, by Loretta Graziano Breuning DiSC® Carol Dweck, Ph.D.

Jason Field is an Executive Coach, Outdoor Professional, Expedition Leader, and Past President and CEO of W.L. Gore & Associates. He's a board member, an entrepreneur, and a veterinarian. His focus is to develop great leaders to be force multipliers for their teams. The discussion covers a team's responsibility, decision-making, the principles of problem-solving, and the role of process to obtain and maintain focus on the customer. The discussion also includes insights from Jason on his role as a guide for hikes into the Grand Canyon. Jason encourages you to work hard, follow your interests, and chase experiences. https://bit.ly/TLP-337 Key Takeaways [2:43] Jason has been married for 16 years. His son just turned 14 and is starting to surpass Jason in capability in just about everything they do together. [5:05] Adaptability and creative thinking are desirable attributes in many organizations but may be in tension with process and structure. Adaptability and creative thinking are behavioral expressions of a culture. These traits are not desirable in every case, such as when making suture needles, for example, that need a lot of process rigor to come out exactly the same way every time. [5:56] If adaptability and creative thinking are desired outputs, you need leadership levers like the Galbraith Star Model™. You design adaptability and creative thinking into the organization. You look at strategy, structure, processes, rewards, and people to get the behaviors of adaptability and creative thinking as outputs. [6:22] Adaptability and creative thinking go with belief systems and values. You start with the people you bring into the organization. If you bring people in who are highly rule-oriented, it's going to be hard to pull adaptability and creative thinking out. [7:30] The Gore company emphasized the power of small teams with the most knowledgeable associate taking responsibility for decision-making. Decision rights don't come from being a leader. A leader in a small team has the responsibility of facilitating a decision-making process and pointing to the most knowledgeable associates. This all requires the team to have organizational strategic clarity. [8:22] You complement small teams with process. If the idea is to be adaptable and draw upon the creative thinkers on the team, you need processes that will move relevant information to the teams in a timely manner so they can act according to the best information. [8:39] Processes should do two things: enable and expedite decision-making and mitigate risks. In the case of teams, it's mainly about expediting decision-making. [8:51] Rewards make sure you are celebrating business wins when you see teams operating in that adaptable mindset and drawing upon their creativity. [9:20] The Pairin Survey identifies people with high objective and analytical scores versus people with high intuitive and conceptual scores. Most teams are strong in objective and analytical scores for solving problems. Intuitive and conceptual scores relate to being good at understanding the root causes and seeing trends and patterns. [10:14] Having the right leader at the right time means being able to draw upon both individuals with strong analytical skills and individuals with strong intuitive skills, that can draw out insights from others, depending on the problem or opportunity that's being presented. [10:58] Jim points out how Jason had clarified an assumption in the first topic of adaptability and creative thinking: Are they desirable in every scenario? Then Jason talked about when they are not helpful and when you need them. How do we encourage people to ask the right questions and clarify their assumptions? [11:53] Jason tells how active listening works for him. He suggests that it's a powerful thing for leaders to step back and ask themselves what an individual is trying to get across to them and ask the right questions and get the right assumptions on the table as they engage in problem-solving. [13:07] When Jason has an employee engagement, he is trying to inspire them while deriving information for himself. It's a two-way street. For engaging people, first, demonstrate an interest in what that individual or team is doing. Draw people to the higher purpose of the strategy of the organization. Demonstrate that you care about them. [14:20] Jason and Jim role-play a conversation. Jim is an engineer working on a product development team and Jason is an executive who pops into the office and asks what Jim's working on. As they talk, Jason shows interest, asks follow-up questions, points to organizational strategy and tying to the customer, uses active listening, adds personal encouragement, and offers help for resources. [17:28] Deconstructing the role-play, the leader makes sure the person knows the leader is listening by repeating and validating what the person says, taps into the personal impact of how the person feels, and how the leader can help. These things are attributes of an energizing discussion. The leader asks how the person knows they are being successful, looking at their place in the organization. [19:20] The best way to inculcate the core values into the organization is to demonstrate them. You've got to walk the talk. Jason says that it's a competitive advantage to being a purpose-driven organization that's incorporated its values into the fabric of its operation. Jason leans pretty hard on that type of work. This assumes you've done the hard work to identify values that are true to the organization. [20:37] When you have your organizational values, incorporate them into your mission, vision, and strategy. Those are the pillars upon which your organization's direction is built. Then draw on those components and demonstrate the values in your products, services, and decision-making frameworks in the organization. At the end of the day, those values characterize your brand. [21:59] Integrity is one value Jason sees a lot. Integrity may be subject to interpretation. Integrity has a dependence upon the values that sit behind it. Make sure you know how your key stakeholders are interpreting integrity. Military veterans often say integrity is choosing the hard right vs. the easy wrong. [23:55] When the board and leadership align with the core values and demonstrate them, that brings alignment around the value of integrity. Brand strategist Tom Storey told Jason that value is "A promise made and kept by the entire organization and experienced by our customers." [24:39] Keep those values front and center in your decisions so you create experiences that reinforce them. Celebrate the individuals, teams, and products that demonstrate the values you hold dear. That's how you start to embed those values into organizations. [26:25] Jason shared his thoughts about personal responsibility. Can it be taught? There is a "nurture" component in surrounding people with others that demonstrate accountability and commitment to an outcome. The peer environment might be the strongest driver of personal accountability. The Special Forces environment creates a very high expectation of dependency on one another. [27:30] Leaders can draw out that discretionary effort in a way that's rewarding to the individual. Use a rewards system that addresses various levels in Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The financial component can elevate people to a limited degree to rise to challenges. The personal recognition of catching people doing things right is energizing. Help people understand their place on the team and in the organization. [28:43] Be purpose-oriented. Show how products and services contribute to a greater good and make a difference in the world. Jason's favorite rewards system is giving people the freedom to operate individually, drawing on their strengths to make a difference in the organization. [30:23] There are individual incentives and team incentives that can be used to encourage performance. Jason leans toward understanding what you are trying to create and whether you are relying heavily on team-based outcomes or you need individuals to get into the lab and grind away toward solutions and outcomes. Jason's bias is to revert to the power of teams. But Bob Gore invented Gore-Tex individually. [31:07] You can't look past individual accomplishments and assume the team will come together and deliver a better outcome because it's a team. There are different environments and different problems that call for different solutions. To the extent you can see that, as a leader, is how you should build your incentive structure [32:08] What derails leaders? Jason says it's losing sight of the market and getting disconnected from sales. It's easy to become internally focused and pull internal levers to optimize an organization, moving away from the market and the customer. You might drive value creation in the near term but miss market signals for long-term opportunities. Optimize for the near term and Invest for the long term. [34:08] One of the most important lessons Jason learned, mid-career, as he was transitioning into product leadership was clarity of purpose and the role process plays. Jason was working in medical devices and the stakes are high in that product category and a lot of risk. The division leader went to all meetings when there was a product issue that could have a patient impact. [35:45] The division leader always brought clarity by asking what is the process telling us, and is the process benefitting us? If the process isn't giving us clarity as to what the answer might be, we probably don't have a good process in place. Jason's takeaway was the role process plays in helping to understand the root cause of what's going on. If the process isn't giving the answer, make some changes. [36:28] The final answer never comes from the product. What is all the data telling you, and how does that translate into the impact on the customer? In medical devices, of course, patients are the most important. Keep what is most important to your organization front and center in decisions when things don't go as planned. [37:30] Jason has been an outdoor enthusiast his entire life. In the past year, he started guiding in the Grand Canyon. It has been absolutely fascinating. When you're a guide in that setting, people are out of their element and hold guides in high regard. Jason hosts a picnic lunch and insists on doing all the cleaning. It sends the message that he's there to serve and a reminder of the power of service. [39:09] People hiking into the Grand Canyon have varying levels of physical fitness. The two things to be most concerned about on the hike are dehydration and heat exhaustion. You need people to be on point and listening, from the very start of the trailhead. It is very hard to keep people focused and get to where you want them to go. Pace matters. There are no easy hikes into the canyon and out. [40:18] You have to get the right feedback mechanisms in place. Verbal communication can be one of the worst ways to get feedback on a hike. You have to set up mechanisms to get guest feedback. Are they stumbling? How much water are they drinking? Jason counts water bottles. Organization leaders also have to be aware that much is non-verbal. Set up feedback mechanisms. Pay attention. [43:16] Jason offers three core elements that come together to create a high likelihood of success: Work hard, follow your interests, and chase experiences. If Jason hadn't chased the experience of a crucible with Jan, he probably wouldn't be doing outdoor leadership experiences and executive coaching now. He thanks Jan for that. It was walking the talk. [44:40] Closing quote: Remember, "There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls." — Howard Thurman Quotable Quotes "What Gore has really done well, historically, is emphasize the power of small teams. Not only small teams but, in addition, … emphasis on the most knowledgeable employee … taking responsibility for decision-making. … Decision rights don't come with being a leader." — Jason "If the idea is to be adaptable and really draw upon the creative thinkers on the team, you have to think about processes that are going to move information to those teams in a timely manner so they've got relevant information." — Jason "Depending on the problem or the opportunity that's presented, you want to be able to draw upon those individuals that have the deep analytical skills or those that can kind of characterize the problem and draw out the insights from others to orient the team." — Jason "Integrity has a dependency on all the other values that sit behind it." — Jason "Celebrate those individuals, those teams, and those products that are demonstrative of the values that you hold dear. And that's how you start to embed this into organizations." — Jason "When a leader is willing to pick up a broom or pick up trash, the message that sends to the organization is pretty cool." — Jason "A lot of times when you ask those questions, you don't always get honest answers, so you've gotta have those other cues that are feeding you information." — Jason "The hard work comes easy when the interest level is high." — Jason Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Jason Field W.L. Gore & Associates Bob Gore Gore-Tex Chris Warner Crucible Expeditions The Galbraith Star ModelTM Pairin.com Michael Simpson Tom Storey Maslow's hierarchy of needs

Mike is the author of "Leadership in Balance and Management in Balance," the founder of Crispian Consulting, and a retired Army officer. Mike shares his thoughts on balance and equilibrium, and what that means for management versus leadership. Contained in this episode is essential advice for newly-minted leaders, and a discussion on learning tools. At the end of the episode is a great "both/and" challenge! https://bit.ly/TLP-336 Key Takeaways [3:05] Mike played rugby as a Military Academy cadet. He had a lot of fun with his teammates. Rugby helped him develop into the person he is. [4:05] Jim met Mike as a keynote speaker, speaking about balance and being a fulcrum. Jim took a lot of notes. Mike defines balance for leaders and managers. It's not things being equal, it's the equilibrium of a work/life balance. Mike talks about managers spending up to 80 hours a week at work. That doesn't leave equal hours to spend with your family. When you're home, give them your undivided attention. [6:23] Mike teaches "both/and" as an alternative to the "either/or" way of looking at problems. The vast majority of things in life are not dilemmas where you must make one or the other choice. Most questions involve equilibrium or equipoise. Apply the right amount of each choice to where it balances. Mike says to be the fulcrum. Be the point on which balance is achieved. [7:49] Mike writes about four central domains in leadership: Communication, Adaptability, Focus, and Influence. You can find an equilibrium but the environment is constantly changing so your equilibrium will also change. Mike works with people to be ready for change. A key part of the model is situational awareness. What's going on in the environment that's different from your natural tendency? [10:11] Mike admits there were times as an Army officer when he should have given more direct orders. Instead of telling people why something was important to do, he needed to tell them how to do it. He didn't always recognize what the situation demanded of him so he couldn't be the fulcrum. [12:14] While doing the Audible version of his first book. Leadership in Balance, Mike realized that the four central domains have descriptive names. Communication is the Foundational Domain, upon which leadership is built. The other three domains rely on effective communication. Focus is the Purpose Domain. Adaptability is the Action Domain. Influence is the Mission Domain. [14:27] Mike's second book, Management in Balance, is out now. It covers four domains, Time, Material, Risk, and Change. [15:08] Mike addresses the mindsets of abundance and scarcity. What is your attitude about an abundance of risk, versus a scarcity of risk, or an abundance of material, versus a scarcity of material? Mike quotes former Green Beret Kevin Owens: "The most innovative people I know are poor." The conditions are the conditions, so we have to deal with the condition, whether abundance or scarcity. [16:50] Are you seeing risks that are not there? Are you not seeing risks that are present and are you becoming reckless? The balance comes into play in that as a manager you have to deal with the current condition honestly and as it exists but you have to prepare yourself and your team for that shift that is going to come. Supply chain issues are examples of shifts. Adjust to conditions as they change. [19:39] Using an Army metaphor, you need to position yourself where you can best influence the action. You might need to stand back a bit to have a wider view and receive news from outside organizations. Or you might go to the front lines to direct people who don't know what to do. That's one of the ultimate leadership calls. The same principle applies in a business context. [20:29] Being the fulcrum is creating the ability for equilibrium by managing resources and assigning tasks. Mike says ultimately, time management is task management; how you prioritize and assign tasks. That's the nexus of leadership and management. Position yourself as a leader/manager where you can do the most to create equilibrium in these areas. Be open to signals coming from the environment. [21:33] Empowerment and subordinate development consist of pushing decisions down as far as you can send them. Stan McChrystal taught MIke to get the authority down to where decisions can be made most effectively. Mike notes that Ukraine is using that model now, based on U.S. assistance from 2014. Mike asks, are you doing it well, are you doing it right, and are you doing it in a way that makes sense? [23:04] The fulcrum creates balance based on where it's positioned along the lever. You, the leader/manager create balance by how you influence, position yourself, lead, and manage in these domains access your organization. [24:28] Mike discusses newly promoted "player-coaches." Both of Mike's books are intended for new managers and also senior leaders who are responsible to promote new managers and leaders and he invites leaders to make these decisions thoughtfully and intentionally.[26:07] The first thing anyone entering into a new position needs to decide is whether they want a job or a career. Get it wrong and you will be miserable to be on the wrong path. And senior management needs to be able to look at you and see if you have leadership potential and the desire for a career. Are you willing to make the physical, emotional, and mental sacrifices that leadership requires? [29:20] Sometimes we get frustrating answers from asking the wrong questions. Sometimes our ego stands in the way of asking the better question because we don't want to know the answer. Or we overlook that we might have been wrong previously. Surround yourself with smart people. Put together a smart team with at least one person who asks, "What are we missing? What is another possibility?" [30:29] Always look for the third option. Don't let decisions be either X or Not-X. Having one more option forces you to think more deeply about the problem and how that plays out as a solution. Most of us quickly make decisions based on experience. Step back and ask some other smart people what they're seeing. Reframe the problem. Mike tells how he addressed an IED problem to improve mobility. [34:03] Remember that everything you do as a team or an individual is a performance cycle. A performance cycle has four steps: Plan, Prepare, Execute, and Review. Don't skip the Review step, especially if you succeed, because it will help you plan better for the next performance cycle. [37:21] Mike's next book focuses on management and leadership as a "both/and" proposition and will speak to executives. Mike discusses the risk to mission, the risk to people, and the risk to reputation. You have to know where those three types of risks are lurking. Manage to mitigate that risk to your people, your mission, and your reputation. Look for opportunities to find acceptable risk and grab market share. [40:43] Mike wrote the second book to define management, setting the stage for his next book, covering leadership and management. New managers always ask Mike whether management or leadership is more important. The better question is, how are they different and when do you do each? The domains for the Management/Leadership equipoise are: What, How, When, and Why? [42:45] Mike's challenge for listeners: Find the "both/and." When you think you're on the horns of a dilemma, step back for a minute and ask, "Is this really an either/or proposition, or is there some question of equilibrium that needs to be found between these competing demands?" If you do that, you may find that you are more effective and a lot happier in your role. [44:07] Closing quote: "There is no decision that we can make that doesn't come with some sort of balance or sacrifice." — Simon Sinek Quotable Quotes "A lot of people, their thoughts immediately go to things being equal; … a balanced scale. … Balance is not about things being equal. Balance is about finding equilibrium; a work/life balance." — Mike "The equilibrium comes in when you're home, giving them your undivided attention, putting your work aside, and getting involved in the things they're involved in." — Mike "The vast majority of things are a question of balance, equilibrium, equipoise: to take these things that are in contention with each other and apply the right amount of each to where it balances." — Mike "That's why the 'be the fulcrum' thing comes into play. That's my reminder to everybody that you've got to be the point on which balance, equilibrium, is achieved." — Mike "As an Army officer, … I wanted to be more indirect in how I influenced people. I was very much, 'This is what you've got to do and this is why it's important,' not, 'this is how you're going to do it.' … There were situations where I should have been more like that." — Mike "I've been asking a lot of clients lately, 'What's the most important thing that you do, and are you getting better at it every day?' And almost invariably, it boils down to their ability to communicate." — Jan "Limiting resources can make people very resilient. The most innovative people I know are poor." — Former Green Beret Kevin Owens, quoted by Mike Lerario "If you're in the retail business now, you've seen this roller coaster. You had a lot and all of a sudden, maybe people didn't have money, and then people got money and they're buying all your stuff and the supply chain gets impacted because there are 50 ships backed up." — Mike "[Speaking] as an Army guy, one of the most important lessons is that you need to position yourself where you can best influence the action. In some cases that might mean that you're standing back and you have a wider view of the battlefield." — Mike "The fulcrum creates balance based on where it's positioned along the lever. You, the leader/manager create balance by how you influence, position yourself, lead, and manage in these domains access your organization." — Mike "I'm a firm believer that, especially with decision making, you have to find a third option, always. If you're looking at the decisions as, 'I've got to do A or I've got to do B,' or 'I've got to do X or Not-X,' you're going to fail. … You have a higher probability of failure." — Mike Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Mike Lerario Crispian Consulting General Stanley McChrystal Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World, by Stanley McChrystal et. al. Leadership in Balance: THE FULCRUM-CENTRIC PLAN for Emerging and High Potential Leaders, by Mike Lerario Management in Balance: THE FULCRUM-CENTRIC PLAN for New and Reluctant Managers, by Mike Lerario Rand Corporation Audible Kevin Owens Turn the Ship Around!: A True Story of Turning Followers into Leaders, by L. David Marquet

This episode is about the importance of finding the underlying causes for today's common leadership challenges. It's about not making the mistake of treating symptoms versus the underlying root cause. Learn how curiosity can inspire and provide insight. Often, the objective, analytic thinking that propelled you to the C-suite now needs to be paired with intuition and conceptualization for you to see the trends and patterns of issues. If you're not a CEO, you can learn to think like one and increase your value to the organization. Listen to the end for the listener challenge! https://bit.ly/TLP-335 Key Takeaways [1:26] This week's topic: focusing on the problem. Jim recently talked to a client who had set a goal. The goal was a solution to a problem, for example, buying a new system that would run the company and fix everything. While talking about the solution, the client was not talking enough about the problem. Solving the problem is the goal. Does this solution, or another solution, solve the problem? [3:01] Jim thinks this is important because as consultants and coaches, Jan and Jim's job is to dig into the problem, not just provide a solution. Jim worked with Bard Press on a book, and his contact, Todd, kept reminding him to focus on the problem. Jan and Jim recently interviewed Dre Baldwin who also said to focus on the problem! So this is a timely topic. [3:47] Jan quotes guest Brian Caulfield saying, "Sell the problem, not the solution," as the most quotable quote of the podcast. When people look at problems, they often neglect to look for the root cause. They come up with an "either this or that" solution; the best solution might be "this and that." Jan refers to Peter Senge and the Fifth Discipline, using systems thinking to figure out the problem. [4:45] The Pairin Behavioral Surveys that Jan has run find that 95% of the time, people score very high in Objective-Analytical and very low in Intuitive-Conceptual. Intuitive-Conceptual is about understanding the root causes of things and being open-minded. [6:18] When Jim does sales training, he goes back to Sandler for the Dummy Curve. When you get a new salesperson, who doesn't know a lot about the product, but they're successful right away, for two reasons: They don't know enough about the product to talk about the product, so they ask a lot of questions centered around the problem. That creates an affinity with the customer. [7:48] Does the product solve the problem? No one cares how the product works if it solves the problem. Focus on the problem. When you don't know how the product works, you have no choice but to focus on the problem. You ask questions that define the problem better. If the sales force knows too much, they want to show their mastery and talk more. That ruins the sale. [8:25] The Dummy Curve is that you come in, you have success, and then you lose it the more you learn. Jim coaches leaders not to train new salespeople too much on the product. Talk to them about the problem that their product solves. Coach them on the business problems people have that invite your product and solution. Have them be more curious about those. [9:25] Jan sees this episode as emphasizing the power of the question. Jan has been coaching about coaching and asking difficult questions. A better approach to a difficult conversation is "Hey, Jim, how do you think that meeting went?" rather than "Hey, Jim, you know what you did in that meeting?" The higher up we go, we need to be better about the questions. [10:16] Jan coached someone about presenting to a high level in the organization. The presenter was rehearsing what to say to influence a decision. Jan asked, "What objections and resistances do you expect?" They discussed how answers to objections could be questions and they considered sample questions. Questions don't have power unless you're curious about the problem and the root cause. [11:40] Talk about task conflict and not personal conflict. Depersonalize the difficult conversation. Focus on the issues. What is the problem that we need to solve together? Jan brings up an example of heating service people who got to the root cause of his problem. If you understand the root cause, you can at least put a bandage on it. Without knowing the root cause, that's about all you can do. [14:47] Some reasons people are content with a bandage instead of getting to the root of the problem are that they don't have time, they don't care, competing priorities, or having so many problems crossing their desks that they don't notice how big one specific problem is. They don't have curiosity, or they have a bias toward quick action. Jan compares it to being seen by a dismissive doctor. [18:01] Jim refers to his upcoming book. The first part of the book is about diagnosing business symptoms. We sometimes mistake the symptom for the problem. Jim shares a story from the book about his father, having abdominal pain in his 60s. The doctor refused to look at the pain as the problem but recognized it as a symptom of an abdominal aortic aneurysm. She saved his life with surgery. [22:08] Jan explains the levers of change: people, incentives, structure, and process. Leaders are rewarded for being problem solvers so the incentive is to solve problems fast. At a certain point, when they start taking on high levels of responsibility, the job shifts from doing to thinking. Jan tells people to think like a designer. Look at each lever. It's not always an issue for coaching to solve. [24:25] If you're not the CEO but you want to be a valuable employee, think like a CEO. Help the CEO see what they might not be seeing. CEOs need to look at the broad performance of the organization and see the patterns, then dig and understand what's behind those patterns. Past guest, Jim Gilmore, author of Look, wrote about seeing through binoculars, field glass, and microscope. CEOs need a field glass. [26:35] People are worried about budgeting for the next year and they're all worried about low sales numbers. They're looking for things to cut from the budget instead of asking what it would take to increase their sales for the next year. Jan always asks where the assumptions behind the budget are coming from. [28:07] Jan notes that scaling means doing more with less by getting more productive and becoming more efficient. Jim asserts that the companies that don't panic during downtimes but invest wisely can grow at great paces compared to those who batten the hatches and shrink. Always seek to understand the problem before solving it. [29:30] Look at the number of companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. The Great Depression was awful. The tech giants of today did not panic during the dot.com bust. They doubled down and grew. There are opportunities all the time but if you're fixated on a solution, you will not see the opportunities that surround you. [30:39] Jim offers an audience challenge: Pay close attention over the week. Listen twice as much as you talk and listen for where you hear either yourself or other people so enamored with a solution that they are missing the real point of understanding the problem. If you recognize that moment, redirect the conversation; ask a question to understand. You will find a more productive outcome on the other side. [32:03] Jan reflects that Jim's audience challenge will take temperance, self-discipline, and self-awareness to understand your effect on other people. Jim and Jan invite you to get in touch with your feedback on these Jim and Jan episodes and suggestions for what subjects you would like Jim and Jan to talk about next. [33:18] Closing quote: Remember, "It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem." — Gilbert K. Chesterton Quotable Quotes "When we spend too much time talking about the solution, the trap we fall into is that we limit the possibilities for what the real solution could be because we're not spending enough time talking about the problem." — Jim "What course of action is going to be the best path toward the future?" — Jim "It goes back to the Fifth Discipline — what Peter Senge wrote about systems thinking." — Jan "I say to leaders, 'What got you here is your ability to see patterns … and make quick decisions. … But those quick decisions are based on paradigms and biases. As a high-level leader, you need to suspend that, have … an open mind, and figure out what's causing this.'" — Jan "Talk to [new salespeople] about the problem that your product solves. Coach them on the business problems people have with regard to your product and solution." "We need to talk about process and task conflict and not personal conflict." — Jim "Too many times, we look at a symptom and we don't realize — we think it's the problem but it's just the symptom and … the real business problems are masked by those symptoms." — Jim "Everybody's got blinders on." — Peter Drucker, quoted by Jan "If you're not the CEO but you want to be a really valuable employee, think like a CEO." — Jan "We all know that scaling means you're doing more with less. Not because we're working people harder but because we're getting smarter, we're getting more productive, and we're getting more efficient. Not because we're driving people like machines." — Jan "Look at the number of companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. … You could say times were different, but they're not." — Jim Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Interact with Jan and Jim on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram Bard Press Brian Caulfield The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization, by Peter M. Senge Systems Thinking PAIRIN Survey Michael Simpson Sandler Training Peter Drucker Look: A Practical Guide for Improving Your Observational Skills, by James H. Gilmore Harry Chapin

Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, the hosts of The Leadership Podcast, explore core values based on the six cardinal virtues. Follow the discussion in this important episode to be reminded how the cardinal virtues apply in life and at work, and how you and your organization can move forward by going back to the fundamentals of leadership. https://bit.ly/TLP-333 Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim have both received a lot of very positive texts about Episode 332, featuring Richie Norton, who talked about the brevity of life. Jan sees that people are planning frantically for next year. [3:05] Leaders are making sure they don't get caught up in emotions but look at the facts. Jim refers to past guest Alan Beaulieu and ITR Economics. The slowdown we're feeling is a slowdown in the rate of growth, not a recession. Slowing from 25% growth to 9% growth feels like the airbags just came on. Don't overreact. [5:20] The numbers come from our words, deeds, and our ability to work through other people. Leaders get people to do things willingly that they would not do otherwise. How we lead depends on our values. Ask what is the most important thing, the second-most important, the third-most important, and so forth. We need to prioritize what we value and translate those values into behaviors we can observe. [6:47] If we say we value integrity, what is the observable behavior that comes from that value? Is hitting the number that top priority, or are people a priority? [7:42] It doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you do. Your culture is a product of your daily decisions and how you treat people. [8:53] Jim recalls an experience from his first college internship at Glenview Tool Company. The owner, Mike Sciortino told him that a security device can't prevent all theft but it can help keep honest people honest. Jim says, as leaders, let's help people do the right thing. Let's encourage them. [11:04] Jan shares a recent airline experience where "the system" wouldn't allow the airline to fix a problem. The system should be for people! [11:40] Jan explains the six cardinal virtues: Wisdom, Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, and Transcendence. Wisdom is built upon curiosity. We have to reward curiosity if we want people to be able to identify problems. Daily, use the statement, "That's a great question!" Reward questions! It's important to catch people doing right. [17:15] Take the focus of questions away from yourself and put it on the other person. Instead of saying, "I don't understand this, can you explain it to me?" say, "That's fascinating. Help me understand why you're going about it that way." [18:12] Courage gets a lot of talk these days. The best business translation of courage is honesty. Sometimes we say authentic. Jan coached a client who had been honest to their boss, but their boss just got quiet, as though wounded. If we want the truth, we need to hear it. Jim cites Choosing Courage, by Jim Detert. Courage is related to timing. Sometimes, wait for the right moment instead of blurting it out. [21:45] Jan's client recently told him that part of being courageous is not being complicit. Don't keep quiet about stuff. [22:39] Employees always have three choices about their workplace: Suck it up and deal with a toxic culture, try to change it, or leave. What do you stand for? What are you willing to compromise on, or not? It's not like there's much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. You don't have to be complicit in a toxic culture or abusive leadership. [24:40] Humanity is simple kindness or the Golden Rule. This can be hard because there's a lot of competition. There's tunnel vision. Some niceties go by the wayside. But research shows that human kindness works. Humans respond best to positive reinforcement. Humanity is a decision that doesn't depend on anyone else. Just be kind, even if people are mean to you. It's doing the right thing. [28:01] Jan tells of going from being a sergeant to being an officer. He was told, "You don't have to speak like the soldiers; you can be above that." It's a matter of respect. If you try to fit in by speaking the cool lingo, it is inauthentic. [28:58] Justice is fairness. Organizations are asking people to be fair to one another. But, in personalized leadership, you can't treat everybody the same, because of their individuality and the work function they have. People want one-on-one time with their leader. In all that, we have to be sure we're being perceived as being fair. Encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable. [33:19] Temperance is self-discipline. Without self-discipline and sacrifice, we can't tackle big goals. John Wooden taught players how to put on socks and shoes so they wouldn't get blisters. In business, we are missing so many fundamentals, such as starting and ending meetings on time and being predictable. [35:00] Jim says discipline is respect. Showing up to meetings on time is respectful of everybody's time. Discipline with personal and business goals is respect for how important those goals are. If you don't have self-discipline, you probably don't have self-respect. Discipline thrives when you have respect. If you don't have self-respect, discipline falters. [36:29] Transcendence is spirituality. In work, Jan sees it as being gracious and operating with gratitude. Jim reminds us that in the grand scheme of things, our role is small. How do you relate to the universe and other people and creatures? Barry Schwartz, in Practical Wisdom, told of janitors in a cancer care unit operating with graciousness because the patients were in great need and having a hard time. [38:19] The transcendent behavior of the janitors improved the condition of the patients, who were at their most humiliating moments. The janitors were looking at the bigger picture than cleaning up a mess. In high-performing organizations, people operate with that level of transcendence. People who win the Medal of Honor are operating with transcendence, also known as Mission, Vision, and Values. [39:20] Companies are not started for the sake of creating a great culture. A company starts because there is a market need, and they think they can help people. More people get involved and then they think about having a good company, which means having a good culture. People are tribal. The cardinal virtues are the rules to get along with our tribe and be of service to other humans in other tribes. [40:50] Things feel out of hand because we've gotten so far from the fundamentals. As you look at planning, go back and say, "Are we making this too complicated?" [42:24] Closing quote: Remember, "Courage is the most important of all the virtues because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage." — Maya Angelou Quotable Quotes "As [Richie Norton] reminded us, 'Life is short' isn't a cliché, it's true. and 'Don't defer your dreams.' Boy, that show resonated!" — Jan "We had some sectors that were growing at 25% and now they're only going to grow at 9%, so it feels like the airbags just came on because we're slowing down from 25 to 9. … The slowdown is huge but it's still a rate of growth. … Let's not overreact." — Jim "[As a leader,] you're basically saying, 'Let's change the trajectory, let's improve performance, let's do something different that you wouldn't have done if I didn't intercede.'" — Jan "Your culture isn't what you want it to be. Your culture is a product of the decisions you make on a daily basis. … Do [you] respect people? Do [you] listen to them when they have a concern?" — Jim "If people aren't asking questions around you, you might be the emperor without clothes." — Jim "There is a way to ask a question so that it will never be perceived as stupid. … [Instead of 'I don't understand this,' say], 'That's really fascinating. What made you think to do it that way?' or 'Help me understand why you're going about it that way.'" — Jim "We see what's going on in big tech right now; it's all fear. It's awful. People are afraid to speak up." — Jan "It's not like there's much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. They're different. There might be a place where the values line up better with what you're all about. You don't have to be complicit in a toxic culture." — Jan "Humanity is a decision that doesn't depend on anyone else. If you're going to be kind, just be kind, even if people are mean to you." — Jim "As leaders, we've got to encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable." — Jan "We know this: Without a certain amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, you can't tackle big goals and defer short-term pleasures. It's really hard. And any organization has really long-term goals." — Jan "No company that I know of was started to create a great culture. … Every company starts because there's a market need and they think they can help other human beings. And then they get more people involved. And then they say, … ``We should have a good company!" — Jan "We are tribal. To me, these cardinal virtues are the rules for us to behave in a certain way to get along with our tribe and to deliver services, offerings, and products to other humans in other tribes. That's what we're doing." — Jan "Everything feels like it's out of hand because we've gotten so far from the fundamentals." — Jan Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Interact with Jan and Jim on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram Richie Norton Alan Beaulieu ITR Economics Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work, by Jim Detert Jim Detert Kim Cameron The Positive Coaching Alliance Jim Thompson All I Really Need to Know, I learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things, by Robert Fulghum Discipline is Destiny: The Power of Self-Control, by Ryan Holiday John Wooden Kareem Abdul-Jabaar Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing, by Barry Schwartz and Kenneth Sharpe Medal of Honor The Marshmallow Test

Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, the hosts of The Leadership Podcast, explore core values based on the six cardinal virtues. Follow the discussion in this important episode to be reminded how the cardinal virtues apply in life and at work, and how you and your organization can move forward by going back to the fundamentals of leadership. https://bit.ly/TLP-333 Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim have both received a lot of very positive texts about Episode 332, featuring Richie Norton, who talked about the brevity of life. Jan sees that people are planning frantically for next year. [3:05] Leaders are making sure they don't get caught up in emotions but look at the facts. Jim refers to past guest Alan Beaulieu and ITR Economics. The slowdown we're feeling is a slowdown in the rate of growth, not a recession. Slowing from 25% growth to 9% growth feels like the airbags just came on. Don't overreact. [5:20] The numbers come from our words, deeds, and our ability to work through other people. Leaders get people to do things willingly that they would not do otherwise. How we lead depends on our values. Ask what is the most important thing, the second-most important, the third-most important, and so forth. We need to prioritize what we value and translate those values into behaviors we can observe. [6:47] If we say we value integrity, what is the observable behavior that comes from that value? Is hitting the number that top priority, or are people a priority? [7:42] It doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you do. Your culture is a product of your daily decisions and how you treat people. [8:53] Jim recalls an experience from his first college internship at Glenview Tool Company. The owner, Mike Sciortino told him that a security device can't prevent all theft but it can help keep honest people honest. Jim says, as leaders, let's help people do the right thing. Let's encourage them. [11:04] Jan shares a recent airline experience where "the system" wouldn't allow the airline to fix a problem. The system should be for people! [11:40] Jan explains the six cardinal virtues: Wisdom, Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, and Transcendence. Wisdom is built upon curiosity. We have to reward curiosity if we want people to be able to identify problems. Daily, use the statement, "That's a great question!" Reward questions! It's important to catch people doing right. [17:15] Take the focus of questions away from yourself and put it on the other person. Instead of saying, "I don't understand this, can you explain it to me?" say, "That's fascinating. Help me understand why you're going about it that way." [18:12] Courage gets a lot of talk these days. The best business translation of courage is honesty. Sometimes we say authentic. Jan coached a client who had been honest to their boss, but their boss just got quiet, as though wounded. If we want the truth, we need to hear it. Jim cites Choosing Courage, by Jim Detert. Courage is related to timing. Sometimes, wait for the right moment instead of blurting it out. [21:45] Jan's client recently told him that part of being courageous is not being complicit. Don't keep quiet about stuff. [22:39] Employees always have three choices about their workplace: Suck it up and deal with a toxic culture, try to change it, or leave. What do you stand for? What are you willing to compromise on, or not? It's not like there's much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. You don't have to be complicit in a toxic culture or abusive leadership. [24:40] Humanity is simple kindness or the Golden Rule. This can be hard because there's a lot of competition. There's tunnel vision. Some niceties go by the wayside. But research shows that human kindness works. Humans respond best to positive reinforcement. Humanity is a decision that doesn't depend on anyone else. Just be kind, even if people are mean to you. It's doing the right thing. [28:01] Jan tells of going from being a sergeant to being an officer. He was told, "You don't have to speak like the soldiers; you can be above that." It's a matter of respect. If you try to fit in by speaking the cool lingo, it is inauthentic. [28:58] Justice is fairness. Organizations are asking people to be fair to one another. But, in personalized leadership, you can't treat everybody the same, because of their individuality and the work function they have. People want one-on-one time with their leader. In all that, we have to be sure we're being perceived as being fair. Encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable. [33:19] Temperance is self-discipline. Without self-discipline and sacrifice, we can't tackle big goals. John Wooden taught players how to put on socks and shoes so they wouldn't get blisters. In business, we are missing so many fundamentals, such as starting and ending meetings on time and being predictable. [35:00] Jim says discipline is respect. Showing up to meetings on time is respectful for everybody's time. Discipline with personal and business goals is respect for how important those goals are. If you don't have self-discipline, you probably don't have self-respect. Discipline thrives when you have respect. If you don't have self-respect, discipline falters. [36:29] Transcendence is spirituality. In work, Jan sees it as being gracious and operating with gratitude. Jim reminds us that in the grand scheme of things, our role is small. How do you relate to the universe and other people and creatures? Barry Schwartz, in Practical Wisdom, told of janitors in a cancer care unit operating with graciousness because the patients were in great need and having a hard time. [38:19] The transcendent behavior of the janitors improved the condition of the patients, who were at their most humiliating moments. The janitors were looking at the bigger picture than cleaning up a mess. In high-performing organizations, people operate with that level of transcendence. People who win the Medal of Honor are operating with transcendence, also known as Mission, Vision, and Values. [39:20] Companies are not started for the sake of creating a great culture. A company starts because there is a market need, and they think they can help people. More people get involved and then they think about having a good company, which means having a good culture. People are tribal. The cardinal virtues are the rules to get along with our tribe and be of service to other humans in other tribes. [40:50] Things feel out of hand because we've gotten so far from the fundamentals. As you look at planning, go back and say, "Are we making this too complicated?" [42:24] Closing quote: Remember, "Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage." — Maya Angelou Quotable Quotes "As [Richie Norton] reminded us, 'Life is short' isn't a cliché, it's true. and 'Don't defer your dreams.' Boy, that show resonated!" — Jan "We had some sectors that were growing at 25% and now they're only going to grow at 9%, so it feels like the airbags just came on because we're slowing down from 25 to 9. … The slowdown is huge but it's still a rate of growth. … Let's not overreact." — Jim "[As a leader,] you're basically saying, 'Let's change the trajectory, let's improve performance, let's do something different that you wouldn't have done if I didn't intercede.'" — Jan "Your culture isn't what you want it to be. Your culture is a product of the decisions you make on a daily basis. … Do [you] respect people? Do [you] listen to them when they have a concern?" — Jim "If people aren't asking questions around you, you might be the emperor without clothes." — Jim "There is a way to ask a question so that it will never be perceived as stupid. … [Instead of 'I don't understand this,' say], 'That's really fascinating. What made you think to do it that way?' or 'Help me understand why you're going about it that way.'" — Jim "We see what's going on in big tech right now; it's all fear. It's awful. People are afraid to speak up." — Jan "It's not like there's much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. They're different. There might be a place where the values line up better with what you're all about. You don't have to be complicit in a toxic culture." — Jan "Humanity is a decision that doesn't depend on anyone else. If you're going to be kind, just be kind, if people are mean to you." — Jim "As leaders, we've got to encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable." — Jan "We know this: Without a certain amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, you can't tackle big goals and defer short-term pleasures. It's really hard. And any organization has really long-term goals." — Jan "No company that I know of was started to create a great culture. … Every company starts because there's a market need and they think they can help other human beings. And then they get more people involved. And then they say, … ``We should have a good company!" — Jan "We are tribal. To me, these cardinal virtues are the rules for us to behave in a certain way to get along with our tribe and to deliver services, offerings, and products to other humans in other tribes. That's what we're doing." — Jan "Everything feels like it's out of hand because we've gotten so far from the fundamentals." — Jan Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Interact with Jan and Jim on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram Richie Norton Alan Beaulieu ITR Economics Mike Sciortino Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work, by Jim Detert Jim Detert Kim Cameron The Positive Coaching Alliance Jim Thompson All I Really Need to Know, I learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things, by Robert Fulghum Discipline is Destiny: The Power of Self-Control, by Ryan Holiday John Wooden Kareem Abdul-Jabaar Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing, by Barry Schwartz and Kenneth Sharpe Medal of Honor The Marshmallow Test

Richie Norton is the author of "Anti-Time Management," and a Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coach. He is the CEO of Prouduct, an INC. 5000 company. In this episode, Richie opens up about tragedies that changed the way he lives, works, and spends time with his family. Richie describes work-life flexibility in three parts: Ability, Availability, and Autonomy. His message: Don't defer your dreams. https://bit.ly/TLP-332 Key Takeaways [2:15] Richie Norton walks his dog on the beach every day. He travels the world and works from his phone. [2:29] The name of his company, Prouduct, means products you're proud of. At any given time, they make over 100 products. Besides being an entrepreneur, Richie coaches and consults. He is happily married and has seven children including three fosters. His youngest passed away but would have just turned 13. [3:50] Years ago, Richie was in Nashville working with the Zig Ziglar team on a project. He got a text from the State of Hawaii that a missile was about to hit his house on Oahu. Then a text that said it was not a test. He called home and finally, his son answered the phone crying, "I love you, Dad." He thought these were his last moments. It was all a mistake. It shook Richie into thinking about other events. [5:02] Richie's brother-in-law, Gavin, his wife's only brother, had been living with their family. He passed away in his sleep at age 21. Life is short. They started living their lives differently and thinking about time differently. Richie's fourth son, Gavin, named after his uncle, was born. He had a cough. Doctors said he was fine, but it turned out he had pertussis. In the hospital, he slipped away in his mother's arms. [6:25] In thinking of these two tragedies, Richie came up with Gavin's Law: "Live to Start, Start to Live." Take the ideas that press on your mind, and start living them. Too many people push ideas aside claiming they don't have the education, time, or money to make them happen. [7:11] Richie worked with Stephen M.R. Covey while in his twenties, training executives. Richie thought he was too young for the job but it wasn't about his experience, it was about continuous improvement and learning. [8:05] Richie speaks of some life events. His foster children returned to their biological mother. His wife had a stroke and lost her memory. The business deal that took him to Hawaii fell through. His son got hit crossing the road and was badly injured. He is OK now. His wife got her memory back. Richie was shouldering a lot when he changed his life's trajectory by putting meaning behind these events. [9:52] With meaning, Richie was able to keep his faith and continue moving forward. His meaning was in asking himself, "How can I live better, not bitter?" When you get stuck on what happened, ask yourself how to assign positive meaning. Approach your work from the dream, not toward the dream. [10:57] Covey would say, begin with the end in mind. He didn't say, to begin with, the means in mind. You can change goals, habits, and strengths, which are all just means to an end. The approach of working from the dream and not endlessly toward it is powerful. You can collapse time. It's a different way of thinking, living, and working. It's anti-time management. [12:54] Richie learned that grief is a tunnel, not a cave. Things happen that impact us and the way we see where we're going and what we have to look forward to. Richie's purpose is his family. He wants to create the ability to have availability. Purpose is having character, creating relationships of trust, and being available for his family, and those for whom he needs to be available when they need him most. [15:48] Richie describes work-life flexibility in three parts: ability, availability, and agility or autonomy. When you look at the world through autonomy, availability, and ability, you can see how free you are to make the choices that you do, including the consequences. [18:28] You have to value your time, not time your values. You can't sacrifice what you love for success. When you sacrifice what you love for success, you get neither. Infuse your work with your values or you will get a hollow life with hollow hopes. You can have money and meaning. You've got to bake it in from the start. [21:17] The second industrial revolution in the late 1800s came from the concept of time-motion studies. It is now known as Taylorism or time management. It was designed to control and master every aspect of workers. It takes and squeezes everything out of the worker for as long as possible to the point of breaking. Time management is about who controls how you use your time. [22:32] Anti-Time Management gives you control over your time. In Time Management, others tell you what to do. In Anti-Time Management, you decide. There is a balance between the two approaches. A full calendar is an empty life. An empty calendar means you're a leader; it's been handled. [25:18] The recent pandemic was the first time in history that everyone was experiencing the same thing at the same time. Technology advanced. Companies and talent started learning what was possible. People started seeing the world in a new way. People started distrusting companies and news outlets more than ever before. Of course, the corporations want everyone to come back in! [26:38] Can productivity increase working from home? It depends on the situation. [26:47] The leadership quality of the future that will be the most important leadership quality is discernment. When you have these gaps in data and interpretation, we need leaders and talent who can use discernment to fill them in to decide the direction we're going to go. [27:50] Never have the switching costs of moving from one company to another been lower. People change jobs every 4.6 years. The company that supports talent in working for their role in the home is going to be the winner. [29:02] As soon as flexibility becomes a corporate benefit to the employee, it's not a benefit to the employee anymore, it's a longer leash. [29:56] Discernment comes in asking better questions for better answers. Problems are multi-dimensional. With discernment, you can make decisions that no one else saw. Ask open-ended questions. You can develop discernment. Richie has great mentors and surrounds himself with good people that think differently. It helps to listen to great podcasts like The Leadership Podcast. [33:23] If a chick doesn't break out of its egg, it dies. Fear, negative pride, and procrastination are like an eggshell that we must break through to be our authentic selves. If you had no fear, pride, or procrastination, what would you be capable of? How would you feel? What would you do? You would be you. We go around trying to avoid past traumas through our decisions. [36:10] Richie sees that people have fear at work. In corporations, there is 99% work signaling and 1% working. Jan cites Joel Peterson, former Chairman of JetBlue: "24 hours is more than enough time per day." Richie talks about having a purpose or reason bigger than your fear. At the end of the day, you get what you want, tragedies aside. You've got to be willing to do the work. [40:17] Richie does not like the retirement mentality. It has destroyed generations of people. He wants people to talk about it, as he does in Anti-Time Management. The retirement mentality is to put off what you want to do until you retire. You can do what you want now and find a way to responsibly support yourself your whole life. [42:06] Richie talks about the marshmallow test. The original study indicated that a child willing to wait 15 minutes for a larger reward rather than accepting a smaller reward now, would do better in life. But later studies showed that was not true. Richie compares the patient child to the obedient employee, willing to wait for rewards. Waiting is great for some things, but not for everything. [44:36] Your lifestyle is changed by how you get paid. The way you operate, the way you work, and the way you do things in order to earn, dictate your life. If you can work in a way where more gets done in less time, it will expand your ability to live, create, and be hyper-productive. Consider your purpose, priority, projects, and payments: If your payments can align with your purpose, you're set. [45:59] Closing quote: Remember, "Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you." — Carl Sandburg Quotable Quotes "I don't think people work for work's sake; I think we work for something else, and so I love to help people create that something else and find work to support it." "I held him for a second and handed him to my wife; she was in a rocking chair and I had my hand on his heart and we sang lullabies. He slipped away. There's nothing like having a human being die in your arms. There's just nothing like that." "I came up with what I call Gavin's Law, which is 'Live to start, start to live.'" "People say they have 20 years' experience when in reality they only have one year's experience, repeated 20 times. … Let's go to work." — Stephen M.R. Covey, per Richie Norton "A lot of times [people] get stuck on what happened. … Ask, … 'How can I assign positive meaning to this?' Because … if you can, then you can figure out your approach. When you approach something from the dream and not endlessly toward it, you work entirely differently." "Goals, habits, and strengths have become means, that have become ends unto themselves. They're just means to an end. You can change the goals, habits, and strengths." "The way time tippers in Anti-Time Management treat time is the way Marie Kondo treats clothes and closet space. We look at it with, 'What brings us joy? What doesn't? What served us? What hasn't?'" "You have to value your time, not time your values." "I believe that the leadership quality of the future that will be the most important leadership quality is discernment. … When you have these gaps, we need leaders and talent who can use discernment to fill them in to decide the direction we're going to go." "There are more opportunities than ever. … People are saying to me, 'How do we get the talent back?' … Just hold on. … Never in the history of the world have the switching costs of working in one job or another been lower." "If you want to be … the leader that brings in other leaders, … now we have an opportunity to show love, to be egoless, to look for talent where we are supporting them in the role that they're working for … the role in the home; those are the companies that are going to win." "Any fear that happens, if you don't have a bigger purpose or a bigger reason, why would you do something about it? People are scared of losing their jobs and they stay." "Change the way you get paid — change your life." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Richie Norton Anti-Time Management: Reclaim Your Time and Revolutionize Your Results with the Power of Time Tipping, by Richie Norton Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coaches Prouduct INC. 5000 Zig Ziglar Stephen M.R. Covey Marie Kondo Second Industrial Revolution Taylorism Harry Potter "10 Ways to Crush Life (in 2 minutes by Richie Norton)" Joel Peterson JetBlue The Marshmallow Test

Warwick Fairfax is the Founder of Crucible Leadership, a philosophical and practical approach for turning business and personal failures into the fuel for living life on purpose, in service to others. In this interview, Warwick shares the wisdom gained from losing his 150 year-old family business worth two-billion-dollars. He talks about how he became a person of intention and reflection. He discusses how we need to delve into our values and beliefs and live in alignment with them. He shares why character means more than credentials. Listen in for the ultimate lesson on working through adversity and the importance of resilience. https://bit.ly/TLP-331 Key Takeaways [1:51] Warwick is a big cricket fan. He looks forward to watching a big upcoming Australian cricket tournament on an obscure cable channel in the U.S. [3:24] Warwick grew up in Australia in his family's 150-year-old media business. It felt like it was his duty to go into the company. He went to Oxford, as his father had done. He worked on Wall Street, then got his MBA at Harvard Business School. He was seen by his parents as the heir apparent. He could not choose not to go into it. [5:38] Warwick believed the company wasn't being well-run. In his youthful idealism, he launched a $2.25 billion takeover in August 1987. Things went wrong from the start. Other family members sold out and didn't believe in Warwick or his vision. The company had an unsustainable level of debt. Warwick tried everything to keep it going. In 1990 they filed for bankruptcy. The company was sold. [7:20] Warwick's wife is American and the couple moved to America in the early '90s; they have been here ever since. Warwick's crucible was devastating. In Crucible Leadership, a crucible is defined as a devastating setback or failure that fundamentally transforms your life. It was excruciating. How could he have been so dumb with a Harvard MBA? Warwick was in a bad pit of despair. He was at rock bottom. [9:40] Warwick was 26 years old when he launched the takeover. Blue-chip merchant bankers advised him not to do it. So he found less reputable bankers who told him, sure they can do it. They just didn't tell him that it wouldn't be sustainable. Warwick ignored the good advice and listened to the bad advice. [12:38] Warwick credits his stability with his Christian faith which has always been the center of his life. His crucible brought him closer to his beliefs. Warwick believes God loves us all unconditionally. He doesn't need our stuff or our successes; we're not our rank or position, we're valued as human beings, beautifully and wonderfully made. Warwick's faith is a cornerstone. [13:32] Warwick's wife loves him unconditionally. Losing a couple of billion did not change that. In the '90s, Warwick and his wife started having children. Warwick found meaningful work, such as doing finance at a local aviation services company and business analysis. The love of his family strengthened him. As he says on the podcast, Beyond the Crucible®, you're not defined by your worst day. [14:40] You have to dig deeply into your fundamental beliefs and values; are you going to be defined by your biggest mistake or this biggest thing that's happened to you? When something bad happens to you, you can either be angry and bitter at others or yourself for years, or you can say, "This is awful; this is unconscionable; what I did was stupid; OK, but I have a choice how I move on from here, how I live." [15:51] Warwick's essential problem was that he was living somebody else's life. You've got to live your life and do what you were called to do, regardless of what laudable professions your parents have followed. You love your parents, but you don't need to do what they did. You've got to be you. [16:52] Failure can be helpful if it leads you to examine yourself. Often, vision comes out of the ashes of your crucible. The key is you've got to live your own life. You can't inherit a vision. You've got to own it. You've got to feel like it's your vision. That's at the core of leading with uncompromised authenticity. [19:57] When you grow up in wealth, the crucibles are different but they're there. Warwick always felt extremely stressed by the sense of obligation to go into the family business. Growing up, if Warwick got in legal trouble, he knew it would be front-page news. He could not afford to fail and embarrass his family. Life won't always be perfect. You don't need to look for failure or crucibles. [21:57] Crucible Leadership surveyed around 5,000 people asking how many of them had experienced crucibles of life-changing circumstances over their lives. It was 71%. There's a 70% chance that people you know have gone through crucibles. Be forewarned before the battle. Have a game plan. [23:23] Over the years, Warwick has asked executives what their values and beliefs are and to what degree they are living in alignment with their values and beliefs. If they are out of alignment, he asks, would they rather change their values and beliefs, or change how they live? They always want to get in alignment with their values and beliefs. Ask the question. People often miss that they are not aligned. [25:35] If coaches don't ask their executive clients about values and beliefs, nobody may ask and the clients may never think about it. They may go through life asking "Why is life so difficult? Why am I having all these crucibles?" Well, it may be self-inflicted. Maybe living out of alignment with their values and beliefs is part of the reason. [26:23] Warwick offers "must-dos" to lead through a crisis. First, your team must feel heard. That doesn't mean you do everything they say. Show empathy, appreciate their concern, and explain why you are going in a different direction. If they feel heard, they are OK with a different decision, as long as it is not a moral difference. Your team should know you care about them as people. [28:47] If you listen to a team, and you've never taken input from any of them in 10 years, just saying "I hear you," is not going to fly. At some point, you've got to take some input from your team, or listening is artificial. You need to know your blind spots. If you've got bright people on your team, you've got to trust them. If they all agree on something else, there's a good chance that they're right. Be humble. [30:34] Ego stops us from doing things that every business book advises. Every Executive coach will say, "Trust your team." Because of ego, we don't do it, and it leads to business failure or suboptimal performance. [31:39] It's not just about getting to know people but about caring. You can't teach people to care. If you don't feel that people are worthwhile and deserve to be cared for, Warwick advises you to step away; resign. Let some other man or woman step into your job who can do a better job. If you have people on your team who demonstrate they don't care for others, let them go and do damage somewhere else. [35:20] Warwick states that hiring people that don't care is bad for long-term company performance. If you don't provide a caring, nurturing environment, you will not hire good people. It's as hard to hire good people as it has been in the last hundred years. If you believe in your company's long-term performance, you'll hire people who care. [36:33] Warwick would rather hire someone who cares than someone with the highest academic credentials. Their team will stick with that leader who cares. Hire for character. It's the right economic choice and business choice. It's the right ethical and values choice. [38:44] Warwick reflects on what he as an executive coach might have told his 26-year-old self, but he says it wouldn't have helped. He would not have been moved from his plan at 26. Sometimes things happen and you have to go through them to learn the lesson. [39:56] In general, with young people, Warwick would coach them to make sure they understand their values, ethics, and beliefs. He would ask how what they are doing serves their values, ethics, and beliefs. People following a calling in line with their values and beliefs don't stop at roadblocks. If they need help, they ask for it. [40:45] Warwick will sometimes ask his team to reassure him before a presentation because he knows the material, but his emotions tell him he might fail. A strong, confident person is willing to admit their vulnerabilities and ask for help, at an appropriate level of sharing. It doesn't make you less of a leader, admitting you're a little bit nervous. [42:33] When you go through a crucible, don't waste it. Learn the lessons. Have After-Action Reports. Learn to do what fits your values, beliefs, and wiring better. [45:39] Warwick shares his views on business valuation. Executives often wrap their identity in what they do. They wonder if they sell low if that makes them worth less as a person. After they sell, at any price, what are they, since they are not Joe Business-owner? Don't let your business identity stop you from making a rational business decision. [47:48] Don't just have an exit strategy; have a life strategy after selling the business. There are many worthwhile options, such as heading a non-profit, donating your time, creating a new start-up, or becoming a mentor, advisor, or angel investor. Close one chapter and start another chapter. Know your why. You've sold your company, not your identity. [50:24] It's hard not to see your identity wrapped up in what you do. It's easy to say; it's really hard. It's normal to feel pain when you sell a business. Jan cites Clayton Christensen, "How will you measure your life?" [51:26] Closing quote: Remember, "If there is no struggle, there is no progress." — Frederick Douglass Quotable Quotes "It was my sacred duty to go into the family business because we didn't just produce widgets, we produced something that was of service to the nation of Australia. … This sense of duty was so hard-wired in me, I could not not go into it." — Warwick "I'm pretty good at giving grace to others; pretty bad at giving grace to myself. … I have a tendency to think if there's a problem in the world, it's my fault. I tend not to blame others." "They said, 'Warwick, the numbers don't add up, don't do it.' Well, that wasn't what I wanted to hear." "When you go through a crucible, it either draws you closer to your verities and beliefs or further away." "We say this all the time; we have our own podcast, Beyond the Crucible®, 'You're not defined by your worst day.'" "You don't always have a choice about what happened to you but you can choose how you look at your life, moving forward. That's the essence of beginning to get out of the pit of despair and beyond your crucible." "My dad was sort of the intellectual guy that would have been a better philosophy professor. He was not a business guy at all. I mean, John Fairfax, my great-great-grandfather was a business guy but those genes had long since faded by the time it got to me, fifth generation." "The key is you've got to live your own life. … It's great to love your parents but you can't inherit a vision. You've got to own it. You've got to feel like it's your vision. So that's probably at the core of leading with uncompromised authenticity." "Unless you ask the question, they don't even realize they're living out of alignment with their values and beliefs because they don't know what [they are]. We, as coaches, can really help our clients by just asking those questions. If we don't ask, nobody may ask." "Typically founders are not very good general managers. They're good entrepreneurs but they're just different skills, so be humble enough to trust your team. It sounds so simple and so easy but ego gets in the way and that's the problem." "Every executive coach will say, 'Trust your team.' This is not new, what I'm saying. But because of ego, people don't do it. It's so sad; frankly, it's stupid. It will lead to business failure or suboptimal performance." "I believe that hiring people that don't care is bad for profitability and bad for long-term performance of the company. Maybe not short-term earnings per share, but long-term, because people like to work for people who care." "Young people increasingly have choices and if you don't provide a caring, nurturing environment, you won't hire them. It's as hard today to find good people as it's ever been in the last maybe 100 years. … If you believe in … your company, hire people who care." "If you're following a calling that you're passionate about that's in line with your values and beliefs when you hit those roadblocks, you won't stop. And when you do hit them, … a brave man or woman asks for help." "You're more than just your title. You're more than just a nameplate on your door. If that's who you think you are, then that's very tragic because you're set up for misery and a bit of a fall. So, there's some soul work, in the broad sense of the word, that you've got to do." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Warwick Fairfax Crucible Leadership Beyond the Crucible® Podcast Crucible Leadership: Embrace Your Trials to Lead a Life of Significance, by Warwick Fairfax Cricket Tournaments in Australia Fairfax Media Oxford Harvard Business School Douglas MacArthur West Point Drexel Burnham John Fairfax The MacKay 66 Harvey MacKay Clayton Christensen

Lieutenant General Mark Schwartz retired from the U.S. Army after 33 years. A career Special Forces Officer, Mark served in a multitude of command and staff assignments, including the United States Security Coordinator of the Israel-Palestinian Authority. In this interview, Mark reveals the importance of having the right advocates in your corner. Mark shares his advice for young leaders, women leaders, and others on being intentional and deliberate with how they approach their careers. https://bit.ly/TLP-330 Key Takeaways [3:10] Mark is pleased to be back in his home state of Colorado. Now that he is retired and has the opportunity to speak to civil society, he is focused on advocacy for women in leadership. [4:28] Strategic influence and influence at the local level come from having the right advocates in your corner. Mark talks about the effects that suspending diplomatic relations between the Trump administration and the Palestinian Authority had in 2019. President Abbas had lost his most important ally and his influence waned, while Netanyahu's influence increased. [10:12] Mark learned from his time in Israel that everyone wants a leader who is ethically sound and has the character they want to emulate. It's all about the people you have the privilege to represent and lead. If you're not an example they're proud of, people leave the organization and move on to find other leaders they want to work for and work with. [13:38] Politics has entered the business conversation. In the military, it is necessary to support the administration, even though the oath is to the U.S. Constitution, not to an administration. In the military, you can voice your opposition at every election. Mark recommends following thbusiness practice: use your voice at the ballot box, not at work, to avoid some real challenges in the workplace. [17:58] Loosely-bonded political alliances are essential. Mark illustrates that point with his first joint task at NATO leading the ground planning for a NATO mission expansion in Afghanistan. It was a very educational experience to learn the importance of inclusion. It applies also to businesses. Not everybody is going to get what they want but the voice of the collective body is powerful. [22:33] Empathy at the staff and HQ levels for your coalition partners is an important aspect of success. You are representing your nation's interests, but you respect the caveats and interests of others. [26:18] In speaking of developing leadership, Mark describes an event along the Pakistani border that turned a situation from tactical to strategic quickly, for over six months. Mark was on mid-tour leave, but he called his commander to see if he was needed. He was told that someone he had helped develop had the situation in hand. The young operations officer managed a report to generals remarkably well. [29:27] Mark shares a model for advocacy for women in the military and business. The talent between men and women is similar. Merit is the most important factor. If you aren't consciously creating opportunities for fair and equal competition for promotion or strategic-level leadership, you let some of your best folks go. Consider the propensity to serve. Keep the standards consistent. [33:51] People appreciate candid and honest feedback. All candidates are not equal. If someone is not qualified, you owe them that feedback to let them know why. Some preconceptions still exist. On one occasion, Mark explained to a female staff member that he was going to a well-qualified female executive officer to make an important statement to the command. [36:38] When the Berlin wall came down in 1989, Mark thought that peace was almost here. There are still conflicts. Success against conflict comes through will and resolve, as Ukraine is showing the world. Mark talks about the Taliban taking over Afghanistan. As a nation, we need to understand the psyche of a country and determine what is achievable. [40:10] Mark discusses negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis, and why the Palestinians' determination not to participate in any normalization dialog didn't help them. Mark sees opportunities to work privately to create a better environment for the civil society of both Israelis and Palestinians. Mark offers suggestions of steps to take to get on track to reduce the levels of violence and tensions. [45:23] Mark's advice for young businesspeople with leadership aspirations is to focus on doing the best you can on the job you have. Build your core competencies. After three to five years, make your desire to take on an entry-level leadership responsibility known to your next-level leadership. That could lead to getting a mentor or sponsor. Management should be on the lookout for bright women and men. [47:03] After you get your first leadership position, you will run into a lot of firsts. You will want a mentor or advocate because you don't always go to your boss for help in dealing with things. [47:53] If you desire to be a leader and develop talent in your organization, you've got to identify early those individuals that have the potential to mentor you. The higher in the organization you are, the more important it is to be mentored. As you move up to mid-management, that is when most women stop rising in the organization. The C-Suite needs to watch for women with merit to mentor. [50:22] Mark is very grateful not only to have had the opportunity to serve as an American soldier but also to have had the support of the American people throughout his career. That support is highly appreciated by everybody who has served and who continues to serve. [52:37] Closing quote: "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." — George Orwell Quotable Quotes "If you don't have the right advocates in your corner, it's very hard to have any influence." — Mark "It's unfortunate when situations play out where the military is viewed as being politicized. As a senior leader in the military, it certainly disturbed me to see." — Mark "If you're truly doing your job in terms of talent and leader development, your responsibility is to advocate for those that you see potential in and create opportunities and provide advice, counsel, and sponsorship for those that deserve it." — Mark "There's no other way [besides DEI that] we're going to balance equality across the workforce at every level." — Mark "If you desire to be a leader and you desire to develop talent in your organization, you've got to identify early those individuals that have that potential. And as you get more senior, it becomes all the more important." — Mark Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Mark C. Schwartz LTG(Ret) Special Operators Transition Foundation Event in Chicago, Summer 2022 Christian Anschuetz Project RELO Israel President Mahmoud Abbas Palestinian National Authority President Benjamin Netanyahu Iran Tip O'Neill NATO McKinsey Research The Taliban IEDs ISIS