TruthWorks

Chris Voss is the former lead international kidnapping negotiator for the FBI. For seven years, his job was to talk people out of the worst decisions of their lives. He's the reason a bank robber walked out of a Manhattan branch after an eight-hour standoff and surrendered to him personally on the sidewalk. A teammate named Jamie Sedania passed Chris two notes at critical moments. Those two notes ended the standoff.But Chris didn't start there. He grew up in a small town in Iowa, the son of an entrepreneur who put every kid to work the moment they could carry trash. He joined the Kansas City police, then the FBI, then the New York Joint Terrorist Task Force. He applied for the hostage negotiation team and got rejected. The woman in charge told him to go volunteer on a suicide hotline first. He did. That decision changed everything, because tactical empathy doesn't get built in simulation rooms. It gets built in conversations where the stakes are someone's life.Today Chris is the founder of the Black Swan Group, named after Nassim Taleb's book on the impact of the highly improbable. He's the author of Never Split The Difference, a book that has sold millions of copies and still ranks #1 in negotiation a decade after release. In this episode of Truth Works, he sits down with Jessica Neal and Peter Clark to unpack how the skills that brought hostages home alive close million-dollar deals, win raises, and transform hiring conversations.This is not a tactics episode. It's a conversation about what happens inside the human brain when someone feels heard, and why coachability is the rarest and most expensive trait in any room.What you'll learn:The 6 second silence rule that triggers oxytocin and serotonin, and why most people destroy it by speaking too soonWhy "negotiate your career, not your salary" is the only raise strategy that actually works, and the exact opening line to use with your bossThe 3 negotiator types (assertive, analyst, accommodator) and how the same silence lands differently with eachHow to spot when you're the fool in the game (20% of the time, you are)Why Stephen Covey got "seek first to understand" wrong, and the small correction Chris makesThe tactical empathy framework, why it was rebranded from plain "empathy," and the neuroscience underneath itThe single observation Chris makes at the grocery store that turns a produce clerk into a personal tour guideThe Robert Greene charmer principle that explains why some people make you feel like the most interesting person in the roomWhy coachability is the rarest trait in any room, and the man on a plane who proved it in 10 secondsThe bank robbery story, the swap negotiator tactic, and the two notes that ended an eight-hour standoffThe 22 second silence Elon Musk held with Lex Fridman, and what came out the other sideLearn more about Chris, his Professional Dealmaker Day on May 15th, and his upcoming salary negotiation course at blackswanltd.com.Truth Works is hosted by Jessica Neal, former Chief Talent Officer at Netflix. New episodes drop weekly. Subscribe for more honest conversations on leadership, work, and what needs to change.

What does it actually take to lead 70,000 people through one of the biggest cultural resets in beauty history?Michael Bowes, Chief People Officer of The Estée Lauder Companies, joins Jessica Neal on Truth Works for a candid conversation about stepping into the top HR seat at an iconic 80-year-old company in the middle of a billion-dollar restructure, the courage it takes to disagree with your CEO without breaking the partnership, and why the loneliness of the role is real but the work is worth it.Michael walks through his path from Saks Fifth Avenue in the early 90s, to Nike, to Tommy Hilfiger, to Coach and Tapestry, and a brief detour into executive search before joining Estée Lauder in 2015. He spent almost ten years in talent before being promoted into the Chief People Officer role. He is honest about the fact he was not chasing the title. He took it because he believed in the new CEO Stefan's vision for the next 80 years of the company.Then the conversation gets into what is actually changing inside Estée Lauder under the new Beauty Reimagined strategy. A culture that used to default to no is now committing to say yes. Over 1,000 different bonus calculations across business units have been consolidated into nine. Brands that used to operate in silos are now rowing in the same direction with one shared set of goals.Michael also opens up about the realities of the CPO seat that no one prepares you for. The loneliness. The board dynamics. The added complexity of working inside a family-majority-shareholder company. The fact that everyone thinks they can do your HR job until you actually have to do something hard. And the running joke that the only people who tell you they would never want your job are the ones who just watched you do it.The episode closes with how Estée Lauder is approaching AI as a tool rather than a threat, including how the company is mining 80 years of prestige beauty consumer data in ways no competitor can match. Plus the rise of K-beauty, why Dr. Jart sits inside the portfolio, the China R&D centre that is reversing the old east-to-west flow of trends, and the philosophy that has guided how Michael hires for the last decade: hire the player, not the playbook.Topics Covered:How The Estée Lauder Companies scaled from a kitchen in Queens to a global prestige beauty portfolioWhy 87% of the workforce is women and how that shapes consumer decisionsTravel retail as a multi-billion dollar growth channelMichael's career path from Saks to Nike to Tommy Hilfiger to Coach to Estée LauderBeing part of the CEO succession conversation before being promoted himselfTaking the Chief People Officer role in the middle of a global billion-dollar restructureThe Beauty Reimagined strategy and its five pillarsShifting the culture from "protect by saying no" to "we say yes"Consolidating 1,000+ bonus calculations into nine business unitsThe loneliness of the CPO seat and why CEO chemistry is non-negotiableHow to disagree with your CEO and still own the decision publiclyNavigating board dynamics and family-majority shareholdersAI as a tool, not a threat, and how Estée Lauder is embedding it across R&D and consumer insight80 years of prestige beauty data and what AI can unlock from itThe K-beauty wave, Dr. Jart, The Ordinary, and the China R&D centreThe biggest hiring mistake organisations make by defaultWhy the right hire is the player, not the playbookThe piece of advice from Michael's grandmother that he still lives byTruth Works is hosted by Jessica Neal, former Chief Talent Officer at Netflix.

Pat Wadors, CHRO at Intuitive (the company behind the da Vinci surgical robot), the architect of LinkedIn's Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging framework known as DIBs, and the author of the 2024 Wiley book Unlock Your Leadership Story, joins Jessica Neal and Peter Clarke on Truth Works.From losing her mother during her freshman year of college and getting diagnosed with dyslexia in a career center conversation at LSU, to declaring at nineteen that she was going to run HR, Pat traces the unlikely path that took her from a fine art major in Louisiana to one of the most respected CHROs in Silicon Valley.She walks through the moment Jeff Weiner called her in the middle of a staff meeting at Plantronics to come fix LinkedIn at three thousand employees, the whiteboard exercise in her first five weeks that forced the executive team to admit they were not actually being "open and constructive," and the 3am realisation that became DIBs.She talks openly about why John Donahoe pursued her for ServiceNow with a now legendary line about marriage, and the comment from a head of product that has stuck with her for years, telling her she was the dentist while the rest of the executive team were just dental hygienists.She then opens up about her Personal Scorecard, and the moment her son devastated her by pointing out that if she actually stuck to her own scorecard, she would only see her grandchildren seventy two times by the time they turned eighteen.In this episode, Jessica, Peter and Pat discuss:The art show story that taught Pat at eighteen that she only sold to people she actually likedThe three year clock she runs in her head to avoid getting pigeon-holed in any roleWhat joining LinkedIn at three thousand employees was actually likeThe whiteboard exercise that became the foundation of LinkedIn's cultureWhy she gave DIBs to the world rather than keep it inside LinkedInThe dinner with John Donahoe that turned into a marriage proposal for a jobWhy she thinks of HR as a product with agile development methodologyWhat a CHRO actually needs to learn about the business to earn a real seat at the tableWhy she had a hysterectomy with the da Vinci robot and was ready to cook dinner that nightThe Personal Scorecard framework and how her son broke her heart with itGoldilocks, the Three Pigs, the Tortoise and the Hare, and Mulan as leadership lessonsThe one question she keeps on her desktop that empowers her every dayPat's book, Unlock Your Leadership Story: How to Build Understanding and Motivate Teams Using Fables and Folktales, is available now on Amazon, patwadors.com and as an audiobook.

Gagan Biyani, serial entrepreneur who co-founded Udemy and Maven, and founded Sprig, reflects on startup wins and failures. He talks about why most AI rollouts sputter, how structured learning beats “just give people tools,” and how AI is reshaping team design and engineering ratios. He warns universities will lag and suggests what parents and schools should do now.

Naveen Jain, serial entrepreneur who founded Viome after a family cancer crisis, discusses mission-driven innovation. He explains why RNA and the microbiome matter, how massive biological data enables early cancer detection, and the three questions every founder should answer. Short, vivid stories about shifting from moon mining to health tech and building a culture focused on a bold mission.

Debbie Millman, designer, author, and founder of the SVA Masters in Branding program, reflects on a career shaping brands like Burger King and Star Wars. She discusses failing forward, why she declined a CEO role, how Design Matters began as internet radio, what hundreds of interviews taught her about insecurity and reinvention, and why she asks herself, if not now, when?

Denise Persson, Snowflake's CMO who built marketing during its hypergrowth; Chris Degnan, founding CRO who scaled sales from zero to billions. They recount joining a stealth startup, building demand generation and sales-marketing alignment, surviving leadership upheavals, and writing Make It Snow to share their playbook for growth.

Guy Kawasaki, tech evangelist and Canva Chief Evangelist who helped popularize software evangelism at Apple. He recalls his zigzag career and explains why you must only promote products you truly believe in. He outlines the three traits of remarkable people. He discusses why founders should build what they use, how to pitch with a live demo, and his provocative views on AI’s impact.

Lucy Guo, entrepreneur and investor who co-founded Scale AI at 21 and later built Passes to nine-figure scale. She recounts childhood hustles and early tech curiosity. She explains fundraising realities for women, why she left Scale, running a founder residency, and building creator monetization tools like pay-per-minute. She stresses hiring competitive doers and keeping senior leaders hands-on.

Jeff Markowitz, advisor and former Greylock talent leader who helped shape senior teams at Alphabet/Google. Peter Clark, Accel talent partner with decades of venture-backed executive search experience. They discuss why hiring still fails, the dangers of 'war for talent' thinking, simulation-style interviews, rigorous referencing as a management playbook, and how leaders prepare to hire well.