Public Defenseless

Over the last year of Public Defenseless, Hunter spent a lot of time speaking with Chief Public Defenders from commissions and state-wide offices around the country. This top down view of Public Defense is extremely valuable and will be something that you hear more of on the show, but Hunter also realized he neglected to get the voices of line public defenders on the show. Over the course of the year, more episodes with line public defenders, like the one today, will be coming your way! Today, Hunter spoke with Felipe Gonzalez, a felony public defender in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. His story, like many line defenders around the country is impossible to tell without discussing crippling caseloads, staffing shortages, and prosecutors who religiously advocate for no bail for most accused of a crime. Yet despite this, Felipe is able to rely on the tight knit office community to weather the storms inherent in the work. We hope you enjoy the first of many conversations with the line defenders who serve as the back bone of public defense around the country! Guest: Felipe Gonzalez, Felony Public Defender, Anne Arundel County Maryland Resources: Anne Arundel County PD Office https://www.opd.state.md.us/anne-arundel Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com

A major theme of this show is empower regular people with the knowledge necessary to push back against the overreach of the state via police and prosecutors. That's why Hunter was so excited to bring you today's episode with a representative from the organization called Citizens Overseeing Police Oklahoma. The guest today is your everyday Oklahoman who is tired of the rampant corruption and abuse that police and prosecutors of the state get away with on a daily basis. While we could only scratch the surface of the issues facing the state, even the limited dialog should be eye opening for anyone interested in creating a fairer and safer Oklahoma. ****A NOTE ABOUT TODAY'S SHOW**** Our guest today is remaining anonymous due to legitimate concerns to their safety. Already, law enforcement has engaged in activity that is nothing short of reprisal and harassment for the guest's continued efforts to push back against their abuse of power. As such, the voice you will hear on today's show is AI generated to protect the identity of the guest. Guest: Representative of the Citizens Overseeing Police Oklahoma Resources: Citizens Overseeing Police Oklahoma https://www.citizensoverseeing.com/oklahoma/police The Brady List https://giglio-bradylist.com/ *These are all single sources for the names and alleged activity in the episode. If more sourcing is requested, please contact Hunter or Citizens Overseeing Police OK* Matt Ballard https://www.citizensoverseeing.com/projects/brady-disclosure/district-attorneys/district-12 Isaac Shields & George Gibbs https://www.citizensoverseeing.com/projects/brady-disclosure/district-attorneys/district-12/d12-shields-gibbs Brian Hermanson https://www.citizensoverseeing.com/projects/brady-disclosure/district-attorneys/district-8 David Prater https://www.citizensoverseeing.com/projects/brady-disclosure/district-attorneys/district-7/district-7-2022 Rebecca Boyer https://www.citizensoverseeing.com/projects/brady-disclosure/district-attorneys/district-4 Gayland Geiger https://giglio-bradylist.com/individual/gayland-%20gieger Prater witness intimidation https://web.archive.org/web/20220428145903/https://okjusticereform.org/2021/05/trichell-jones-when-survivors-are-criminalized/ Bob Macy https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/history-of-misconduct-chronicled-in-oklahoma-county-with-41-executions Richard Glossip - Save Richard Glossip.com Richard Glossip Appeals; Fern Smith; AG John O'Connor, No. PCD-2022-589 (Post Conviction-Death) and No. PCD-2022-819 (Post Conviction-Death) Fern Smith - (destruction of evidence) Glossip Independent investigation Molly Miller & Colt Haynes - Love County Partners in True Crime Abc 19 in Phoenix ,Dave Biscobing @DaveBiscobing15 Full disclosure: Investigating Arizona's broken "Brady list" system (part 1); Full disclosure: Investigating Arizona's broken "Brady list" system (part 2) Mark Lamb https://revealnews.org/article/big-lie-sheriffs-target-us-elections/ Angela Marsee https://www.citizensoverseeing.com/projects/brady-disclosure/district-attorneys/district-2 The president of our sheriff's association - Chris West - https://giglio-bradylist.com/individual/chris-%20west Canadian County Sheriff Major Adam Flowers https://giglio-bradylist.com/citizen-report-no-1665354581-1109384232 Fern Smith - Now ADA in Johnston County - Johnston County Sheriff Office "In 2021, Johnston County saw a total of 15 pursuits. From January this year to now they've already had 11." Johnston County Sheriff Dodd on April 4, 2022 Love County Sheriff Joe Russell Witnesses in Love County Sheriff Joe Russell Removal Gabriel Alexander Johnston County uses of force Johnston County Sheriff - Gary Dodd Fern Smith, has made it Very clear in Court documents That the state of Oklahoma has zero jurisdiction over their own Sheriff Because he is a tribal member. Craig Ladd - District 20 District Attorney 18-9526 McGirt v. Oklahoma (07/09/2020) - Supreme Court CLEET Preston Draper, the General counsel, Level playing Field Solutions File a brady list complaint Sanctuary county Map A.D.A Melissa Henke Hidden Camera in attorney/client room of Carter County Jail. State Rep Justin Humphrey - Richard Glossip Press Conference September 2022 Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com

Across the country, outdated and disconnected data systems keep thousands of people stuck in prison or on community supervision long after they should technically be free. Today, Hunter spoke with Serena Chang, a product manager at Recidiviz, a tech nonprofit working to solve this problem and make the criminal justice system fairer, smaller, and more effective. As discussed in the episode with Jason Tashea, the legal system is slow to incorporate new technology. Yet for States and organizations around the country, it's becoming obvious they can no longer operate a legal system based on individuals enter data by hand or relying on the memory of a few overworked officials. This is where Recidiviz enters the conversation. Tune in to hear how Serena and Recidiviz craft individualized, yet scalable solutions that aim at reducing the power and reach of the American prison industrial complex! Guest: Serena Chang, Product Manager, Recidiviz Key Topics: Serena's journey to Recidiviz [5:00] The Problems facing the legal system [6:35] How to craft solutions and how they worked in Idaho [14:25] How states get introduced into Recidiviz' work [23:04] How Recidiviz works on policy [25:10] Ensuring increasing efficiency does not simply increase the efficiency of incarceration [28:37] Preventing the states from using data collected to implement more pro carceral policy [31:27] Ensuring equal access to tools [34:05] Plans for expansion [36:10] How to access Recidiviz' pre-existing tools [38:35] Data Protection [40:35] What would happen if bad/illegal behavior by the state came to light [42:30] Trends Recidiviz noticed in their data collection [44:25] Goals for organization [46:58] How to start partnership [49:15] Offering solutions that do not increase the size and power of the Department of Corrections [51:40] Working with a PD Office [54:20] How to learn more and identify problems [56:22] Resources: Recidiviz https://www.recidiviz.org/ Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com

On this episode, Hunter spoke with Jason Tashea to discuss the exciting intersection of tech and the legal system. As the Director and Co-Founder of the Georgetown Judicial Innovation Fellowship, Jason is constantly thinking about ways to ethically integrate technology into the legal world. As an institution predicated on tradition, precedent, and intentionally inefficient legal protections, the legal profession has been incredibly slow to adopt the forward thinking, efficiency mindset so prevalent in the tech world. It is the juxtaposition of the two that sits at the center of today's conversation. How do we ensure that the efficiency goals of tech don't trample the rights of others? How do we make sure that the vitally necessary data collection practices are implemented safely without privacy violation? All these questions and more are explored in this episode! Guest: Jason Tashea, Director and Co-Founder of the Georgetown Judicial Innovation Fellowship Key Topics: How Jason's Career got him here [5:40] Where does the use of tech currently stand in the legal profession [7:50] Access to Justice Gap [9:28] Understanding the difficulties of a public-private partnership [13:41] Lessons from other countries [16:22] Data Privacy Concerns [19:56] What policies need to be implemented to ensure equal access to new tech [23:50] Balancing tech's desire for efficiency with the law's inefficient legal protections [27:05] More ethical issues with law and tech [34:50] Faith in reforms [38:13] Limiting power of centralization of data [40:40] The Fellowship [45:10] Pushing for an Open Source Environment [52:00] Getting into the Fellowship [53:00] What Public Defenders can do to get more tech solutions [56:00] Resources: Links for Judicial Innovation Fellowship https://www.law.georgetown.edu/tech-institute/programs/judicial-innovation/ https://twitter.com/JIFGeorgetown https://www.linkedin.com/company/judicial-innovation-fellowship/ Justice as a Platform https://law.mit.edu/pub/justiceasaplatform/draft?access=wd47u265 A Human Rights Approach to Justice Technology Procurement https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4246039 How the US can Compete with China on digital justice technology https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/how-the-u-s-can-compete-with-china-on-digital-justice-technology/ Talk Justice Podcast https://legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/talk-justice/ Code for America https://codeforamerica.org/ Legal Hackers https://legalhackers.org/ Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com

From the denial of basic healthcare needs to decades in solitary confinement, prisoners stuck in the Massachusetts prison system face near daily deprivation of basic human and Constitutional rights. Today, Hunter spoke with Elizabeth Matos to understand how her organization, Prisoners' Legal Services of Massachusetts, challenges this system of relentless brutality. Guest: Elizabeth Matos, Executive Director, Prisoners' Legal Services of Massachusetts Key Topics: How Lizz's family history got her into this line of work [6:55] The problems in Massachusetts' Prisons [10:09] Are there other organizations working to solve this problem? [14:17] What do communities miss out on when they don't have a PLSMA type org [17:12] The lack of healthcare in Massachusetts' Prisons [19:35] Specific challenges females face in regard to lack of healthcare [22:41] How the legislature is responding to this issue [29:30] Staff Assaults in Massachusetts' Prisons [33:56] Solutions for the Staff Assault problem [41:27] Other issues with confinement in Massachusetts' Prisons [47:50] Issues with Solitary Confinement [56:00] Race and Equity Initiatives [1:02:00] The year ahead for PLSMA [1:06:00] Ensuring the voices of the incarcerated are heard when crafting solutions [1:11:00] Resources: Email Lizz lmatos@plsma.org PLSMA https://plsma.org/ Walpole Prison Riot https://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/content/us-prisoners-take-control-walpole-prison-1973 Annie Dookhan https://www.cbsnews.com/news/annie-dookhan-chemist-at-mass-crime-lab-arrested-for-allegedly-mishandling-over-60000-samples/ Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com

While not a small county, Yolo County California does not have the size or resources to match the major metropolitan areas of San Francisco, Oakland, L.A., or Sacramento. Yet somehow, Tracie Olson, Chief Public Defender Yolo County, and her team at the Yolo County Public Defender Office are able to maintain a strong holistic public defense practice. Despite a $16 million dollar budget shortfall compared to the prosecutors, Tracie has been able to establish her office as a pillar in the community. If the county and the state of California were to finally fund the office at even 85% of what the prosecutor's office received, the health and safety of Yolo County could reach heights no one thought possible! Guest: Tracie Olson, Chief Public Defender, Yolo County Public Defender Office Key Topics: How Tracie got started in Indigent Defense [8:30] Demographics and layout of Yolo County California [13:25] Where the Yolo County Public Defender Office sits California's Public Defense System [15:30] Funding disparity between California Prosecutors and Public Defenders, and what Tracie can do despite the disparity [17:43] Community Response to the disparity in Prosecutor and Public Defense Funding [21:20] The impacts of the "tough on crime" media narratives over the past few years on Yolo County [27:50] Trying to address the housing issue in Yolo County [37:30] What can't the Yolo County PD office do because of the funding shortage and how is the community hurt as a result [41:25] Making Public Defense more than a "check box" system [48:20] Yolo County PD community outreach programs [54:45] What does California need to do to support public defense? [1:05:45] Resources: Yolo County Public Defender Office https://www.yolocounty.org/government/general-government-departments/law-justice/public-defender Yolo County Public Defender Facebook https://www.facebook.com/YoloPublicDefense/?modal=admin_todo_tour Yolo County Public Defender Twitter https://twitter.com/yolopubdefense Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com

Why are some state's public defense systems so strong while others are so weak? This week, Hunter speaks for a second time with David Carroll, the Executive Director of the Sixth Amendment Center. David highlights a handful of reports that his organization conducted in an attempt to improve the public defense systems of many different states. First, David talks about Oakland Michigan, a now strong system because of the Sixth Amendment Center's findings. Then, he'll go into a weaker system—New Hampshire. Taking you through the ins and outs of this complicated government, you'll learn exactly why change in this state has been so difficult. Hunter and David end the episode by delving into the Illinois and Lake County, California reports and how the Sixth Amendment has improved the systems in these locations as well. This episode highlights the fact that systems can still be bad even with well-intentioned individuals at the helm. However, David will instill you with true hope that positive change is on the horizon. Key Topics/Takeaways: Qualifications and independence for attorneys in Oakland. [15:53] Attorney compensation in Oakland. [21:45] Recommendations and results in Oakland. [33:20] The structure of indigent defense in New Hampshire. [41:33] Attorney compensation in New Hampshire. [54:04] Non-lawyer prosecuters. [59:19] The nonprofit state public defender and conflict system. [1:07:20] Caseloads in New Hampshire. [1:10:17] Recommendations for New Hampshire. [1:17:23] The Illinois report. [1:24:28] The Lake County, California report. [1:32:21] A 2022 public defense wrap up + David's hope for the future. [1:38:47] Guest: David Caroll, Executive Director, Sixth Amendment Center Resources: Sixth Amendment Center Reports Race to the Bottom Michigan Memorable Quotes: "Systems in America, whether that be indigent defense or otherwise, do not need to have a bad person running them for them to fail. In fact, it can be even more difficult for well-intentioned people to correct a system that they are responsible for because it is so much harder for them to see past their own good intentions." (2:40, Hunter) "People don't even see it anymore. It's ethical blindness right in front of them. And so it takes a group like ours to come in and hold a mirror up and say, no, look at what's actually playing out in all these things." (24:43, David) "Now that we've solved the compensation issue, once those plans get implemented and in place, once caseloads can be enforced, I think Michigan's well on the way to being one of the better systems in the country." (39:28, David) "I think a lot of people that want criminal justice reform think that criminal justice systems were rationally constructed. Like someone sat down and said, this is the best way to do it for us. And it's absolutely not the case. It's just piecemeal." (1:08:22, David) "I am hopeful. I am the eternal optimist. You can't be doing this work for over 25 years and not be hopeful." (1:39:10, David) Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram www.publicdefenseless.com

Since its inception, Supreme Court decisions play a terrifying role in controlling the lives of Americans. Few decisions in living memory now play a greater role than the overturning of Roe v Wade. To understand the impacts of Dobbs v Jackson, Hunter is joined by three guests from the state of Louisiana. Gwyneth O'Neill is an associate at the law firm Schonekas, Evans, McGoey and McEachin. Ellie Schilling is a partner at the same law firm and serves on the board of the non-profit LIFT Louisiana that Michelle Erenberg is the co-Executive Director. For decades, anti-abortion activists fought tooth and nail to see Roe v Wade overturned, but now that it is, those same activists are demonstrating a fundamental disregard for the impacts of their actions. With healthcare in a precarious situation around the country, the short sightedness of the activists in paraded throughout the episode. By going through the history of abortion denying access in the state and the many contradictions in the current laws, Hunter hopes to equip every listener, attorney or not, with the tools needed to push back against those seeking to turn Reproductive Healthcare back to 1865. Guest: Gwyneth O'Neill, Associate, Schonekas, Evans, McGoey and McEachin Ellie Schilling, Partner, Schonekas, Evans, McGoey and McEachin, Board Member Lift Louisiana. Michelle Erenberg, Co-Executive Director, Lift Louisiana Key Topics: How everyone got involved in Reproductive Justice [6:04] S.B8 Texas [20:20] Evolution of Anti-Abortion Laws [26:00] The impacts of changing the definition of when life starts [33:00] The difficulty of anticipating what comes next with all of the contradictions in the law [49:30] How does the Legislature respond to the hypocrisy [51:00] Chilling effects on Drs and other unintended consequences [55:30] Crisis of Healthcare [1:03:00] How Lift LA tries to appeal to voters [1:14:00] The severe lack of expertise from policy makers ;1:17:00] Criminal Defense Preparing for these cases [1:24:00] Reporting Standards for Doctors [1:36:00] Connecting communities with the resources needed to fight back [1:42:00] What else can the defense bar do to prepare [1:47:00] Resources: Lift Louisiana https://liftlouisiana.org/ Follow Lift Louisiana on Twitter @liftlouisiana Here's a link to the Abortion Defenders sign up form bit.ly/AbortionDefendersLA Schonekas, Evans, McGoey and McEachin https://www.semmlaw.com/ ACLU https://www.aclu.org/ https://www.aclu.org/other/links-other-reproductive-freedom-sites Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com

Right now, a three-attorney public defender office in North Dakota has zero attorneys on staff. And with public defender turnover rates on the rise, the state makes it difficult to provide legal representation for all. In this episode, Hunter speaks with Travis Finck, the Executive Director of The Commission on Legal Counsel for Indigents (CLCI). He brings with him an infectious optimism and deep knowledge of North Dakota public defense. The first half of the episode will teach you all about the formation of the public defense system in North Dakota and how it transformed into what it is today. Then, he'll dive into the unique challenges within the public defense and criminal system of the state. Travis will share how he is responding to high turnover rates and low funding while trying to improve public defense in North Dakota for the better. With only 20-30% of individuals charged with misdemeanors in the state getting public defenders, it's obvious that many people are going without needed legal representation. Travis dreams of a day when North Dakota can boast a great public defender system. Key Topics/Takeaways: Travis's background in public defense. [5:49] The creation of the North Dakota public defense system. [9:20] Hourly rates and statutory caps. [12:42] Turnover rates. [23:24] The bail system in North Dakota. [35:56] North Dakota determination standards. [43:28] Recoupment fees. [54:09] Where Travis wants public defense to go in North Dakota. [58:52] Guest: Travis Finck, Executive Director, The Commission on Legal Counsel for Indigents (CLCI) Resources: CLCI Website Memorable Quotes: "We like to think we have good people, and when you can't pay good people what they're worth, there's natural inclination for them to look elsewhere. And I don't fault them for it." (24:19, Travis) "Justice delayed is justice denied." (33:06, Travis) "Us not being able to staff that office is not a public defense issue. That's a criminal justice system-wide issue." (39:41, Travis) "The people that are doing this work, sure as hell ain't doing it for the money. We're doing it because it's the right thing to do." (40:18, Travis) "My personal position on the fees is it's the only constitutional right that I'm aware of that's conditioned upon paying a fee." (56:19, Travis) "I don't wanna be known as a sufficient public defense system. I wanna be known as a great public defense system." (59:44, Travis) Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram www.publicdefenseless.com

For many, the hearing about the opioid epidemic invokes images deindustrialized towns in West Virginia and Kentucky, but it was actually Alabama with the highest rate of per capita prescription. Today on the show, Hunter Spoke with Leah Nelson, Research Director at Alabama Appleseed, and Stacey Fuller, a Certified Recovery Support Specialist, to discuss the impacts of opioids and addiction in the state of Alabama. As with most states, Alabama approached addiction not as a illness to be treated, but as a wrong to be punished. For decades, the state failed to provide resources to those battling with addiction and sought to criminalize such behaviors. Predictably, this did little to curb crime, addiction, or overdose deaths. While it may not happen overnight, Leah and Stacey are certain that by continuing to highlight the issues facing the state, they will be able to turn the state towards a more rehabilitative model. Guest: Leah Nelson, Research Director, Alabama Appleseed Stacey Fuller, Certified Recovery Support Specialist Key Topics: How Stacey became involved with the legal system [6:30] Leah sets the stage for how Alabama approaches the problem of addiction [7:45] How the system makes addiction more prevalent [13:45] What is happening at the legislature that enables this? [18:53] What Stacey provides to people fighting addiction [27:40] Inroads made with judges and prosecutors to seek non punitive solutions [31:20] Cost of Addiction in Alabama [33:00] What has Opioids shown about other drug use in the state [38:45] How to ensure we don't redo the war on drugs [42:41] Lack o trust in the system [49:40] Moving Alabama forward [53:00] Alabama Felon Registration Card [59:40] Resources: Alabama Appleseed Bitter Pill Report http://alabamaappleseed.org/a-bitter-pill/ Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Pain-History-Sackler-Dynasty-ebook/dp/B08ND91K6G Addiction Treatment Centers Alabama https://americanaddictioncenters.org/treatment-centers/alabama Contact Hunter Parnell: hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com