The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

Chris Johnson, the founder of On Target Living, shares his experiences with his clients and finding success with rest. Chris discusses the topics from his most recent book. Rest. Eat. Move: You Have the Power to Feel your Best. He elaborates on the connection between good sleep, healthy eating, and stress management to build a foundation for long-term wellness and success.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1JkB0U4sYY   Brett Gilliland: I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got the privilege of interviewing, again, for the second time, Chris Johnson. What’s up Chris? How you doing?  Chris Johnson: Hey, Brett. How are you? Happy to be back. I can’t believe it’s been since, I think you said April, 2018.  Brett Gilliland: April of 2018 is when we chatted last. It’s uh, it’s crazy. I said time flies when we’re having fun and, uh, yeah, we’re, we’re doing that.  Chris Johnson: It’s crazieness.  Brett Gilliland: Uh, you are also probably the only person I know that, uh, on my podcast, uh, at least I’ve had your son, Matt. I’ve had your daughter Kristen, on the show. So we’ve had all three of you on and, and, uh, it’s been awesome. I just love that Matt and I have stayed connected and I still gotta get Matt out on the golf course because I’ve, I’ve see he’s a pretty good golfer, so we’re gonna see who wins some cash from each other. Are you putting your money on? You know, is he still playing ?  Chris Johnson: Yeah, I play, but. You know, I’m like an A handicap and he’s, you know, he’s good. He’s really good.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Chris Johnson: So yeah, it’s amazing. He doesn’t play that much anymore, but man, he’s still good. Well, kids have a way of doing that, don’t they? Yeah. So I don’t, I don’t really, I used to try to blame, you know, straight up and I always would lose, but as just my eagle getting in the way and then now I still stake take strokes and I still lose, so it doesn’t matter. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, those stroke things are fun. But they’re frustrating too, aren’t they?  Chris Johnson: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: So you are the, uh, founder and CEO of On-Target Living. Um, author of, of numerous books. Uh, you’ve got a new book out called Rest. Eat. Move. Uh, you have the power to feel your best, so we’ll talk about that. Uh, I read this book right here in 2018. Capacity. Uh, you and your son Chris, wrote that, uh, I’m sorry, you and your son Matt wrote that. And um, it’s just an amazing book. Amazing book. I love it. So we’ll, we’ll dive into your stuff, uh, as well, but if you could, for those that didn’t hear us back in 2018, Chris, just maybe give us a little lay of the land on, on who you are, what’s, what’s made you the man you are today. Chris Johnson: Well, Brett, uh, without getting into the weeds too much, uh, you know, I’m, I turned 66 this year. I’ve been doing this a long time over 35 years, but I was a business economic major at Western Michigan. So I’m here at our headquarters here in East Lansing, Michigan. And, um, when I got outta school, I was, there wasn’t really a lot of jobs, but I had kinda thought about what do I really wanna do? I was always interested in exercise and working out and eating right. I got into bodybuilding in the early eighties and then I decided to go back to grad school and so I went to back to grad school at Michigan State and exercise physiology. And when I got outta grad school, I worked at in a hospital doing stress testing, and I worked for a private practice doctor for a couple years. But really the thing all started to change when I went to work at the Michigan Athletic Club as a director of Fitness and personal. and I did that for about 17 years and that’s when I started speaking and I wrote a, a couple books and then I decided to take my, um, my deal on the road, uh, in 2007. And I’ve been full-time speaking and, and since then. And then as you mentioned, my daughter and my son, my son Matt, runs our business and we have a nice team here. And we have a beautiful headquarters in East Lansing. So what we try to do is help organizations, uh, be their best and feel their best. So yeah, that’s where we’re at today. And um, we also have a very, uh, vibrant e-commerce business. We sell wheatgrass and cod liver oil and things like that. So yeah, content, uh, delivery, training, and then our e-commerce. So that’s our business.  Brett Gilliland: And, and would you say that the, the bulk of what you guys are doing, like you said, really is, is around those three things, right? Rest, uh, eat, move, uh, and, and, and in what order, right? Because I think all three of them are equally as important. Uh, maybe you would, I would assume you would agree with that, but we’ll dive into that. But let, let’s talk about, if we can, for a while, there’s a lot of business owners and people in sales that listen to this podcast. That, what, what was it like to grind for you? So it, you know, you, you made it sound easy, which you guys have done an amazing, you got amazing business. But what, what were you doing during the early days when you didn’t have, uh, uh, a well oiled machine running a business? What was it like? What, what were the day-to-day like for you? You were raising a family, uh, young kids and traveling and doing all those things. What was it like?  Chris Johnson: Well, like many of your, uh, listener viewers that Yeah, it’s a grind. When I got outta grad school, in fact, when I entered grad school, my wife came back to me and said, Hey, you know, honey, we’re pregnant. And I go, oh, okay. Um, and then a couple months later, we found out we’re having twins. So I’m working full-time driving a, a Frito-Lay truck delivering Doritos , and she’s working full-time in a law firm. And we’re raising in two, you know, two twins. And then, uh, I’m in grad school full-time. So was it a grind? Absolutely. And so you look back and you’re like, how in the heck did we do it? And then, uh, I think that work ethic, again, I’m, I’m old school, but when I worked in the Michigan Athletic Club, you know, I was working 60 hours a week every week, and we had one of the largest personal trainer programs in the world. And um, and slowly over time, it was that bedrock of training that I realized, okay, how do I take this and scale it? And so when I started speaking full-time, my wife, I can’t remember coming back to her. And I remember, uh, Merrill Lynch reached out to me and wanted me to do this training for their advisors. And, um, they came back and said, we want you to do X, Y, Z. And I’m like, well, I have a full-time job. I can’t do that. And then, I thought to myself, I’m like, Hey, time’s, time’s to go. So anyway, I started on Ontario living in 2006 and I went full-time speaking in 2007. It was just me and, um, Don Miller, and she scheduled my events and, and then, then Matt came on 12 years ago. And, but yeah, it’s, uh, it is like any business, you know, people say, well, I wanna do what you do, and I, well, do you really wanna speak for free for five years?  Brett Gilliland: Right. Chris Johnson: I’m like, what are you talking about? I said, well, you know, it just doesn’t happen. So I think sometimes people, you know, nobody’s a black belt, you know, to start with everybody’s a white belt. Yeah. And so I always tell people, you know, you do the Jim Collins thing, you gotta have the, kinda like your Circle of Success podcast. You have to have passion and. And you gotta feel like you can make a living at it. And last but not least, you need to be, feel like you can be really good at it. So I think that’s the circle we always talk about. But as you mentioned, it doesn’t happen overnight. And um, I probably wouldn’t do it any other way cuz again, the, the struggles we all face, whether it’s our health or whatever, but some of the good, best stuff is through the struggles.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, for sure. And, and so do you have a, a defining moment? I was in a meeting earlier today and we’re talking about uh, we’re gonna have an event coming up in March on Inter International Women’s Day, um, on March 8th. And I was talking to three of the ladies in our firm and I said, let’s talk about a defining moment. Like I had a defining moment in my life in 2003. So I started the business in 2001, 2002. I was like the advisor of the year in, in our, in our, you know, in our area here in St. Louis, uh, for the company I was at. And then 2003. I, I should have been fired. I mean, I didn’t do any production. I just, you know, I let this talent think that’s just gonna carry you. And it was a defining moment for me, right to, to where I learned you have to work hard. You can’t just show up and expect things to happen. You gotta work your ass off to become successful. And even though it was the toughest year of my life, it, in looking back now, 22 years later, it was the best year of my. Right. So do you have a moment like that for you on the, on the way up on the journey that you said, man, that looking back, that was a defining moment? Chris Johnson: Yeah, I think there, there is many defining moments, but one that I can really think about. Um, I had an opportunity to get on the biggest stages in the world. With Merrill Lynch, uh, way back in 2007, it was just before the market kind of imploded. Um, but I was doing this event for Merrill Lynch managers, about 3,500 people in the audience, and I didn’t get a rehearsal. And so before I was gonna get up on stage. One thing got pushed back, one thing got pushed back, and the next thing you know, when I get up there, this is not ready to roll in front of 3,500 people. And so the woman that hired me, I didn’t know she was in the audience, and I talked to her about a couple days later and she said, Hey, how’d the event go? And I go, well, it’s really tough to start with. And she says, um, she asked me a question, “Are you a professional speaker?” And I said, “Yeah.”. And she said, “Well, you need to act like one.” And I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “I was in your audience and you weren’t ready to go. You didn’t even know where your clicker was. You didn’t this…” And I got, I’m now making excuses that, you know, the reason I didn’t know that is because they didn’t gimme a rehearsal. And she said, well, any professional speaker would’ve never stepped on up on stage in front of 3,500 people without a rehearsal. And she said, you know, I have you scheduled for some of these largest events that we do. I don’t think you’re ready to go. And I thought to myself, I go, I am ready to go, and you’re right, I did drop the ball. I need to do this. She goes, you’re tired, your slides are tired. Your jokes aren’t funny. I go, so I really got hit between the teeth. But she was exactly right. She, she said, you know, later, I, I saw potential in you. I knew you were relatively raw in this world, but our advisors were so attracted to your message and your energy that I wanted to get you out there. But I had to see if you were willing to make some of these changes. And I did and that, that really was a defining moment cuz then I came up and did their series of events and, you know, the, the energy took off and then next thing you know, I’m speaking all around the world with some of the largest groups in the world. So, but that was a real defining moment at the time. It wasn’t fun to listen to that, but sometimes we need some of that tough love and yeah, you know, I’m always grateful for that. Brett Gilliland: It is amazing. Isn’t the the tough love and how in the, in the moment it sucks, right? You probably were pissed at her. It’s like, you don’t, you don’t understand, I, I got this. I’m good. This is your guys’ fault. But then when you slow down and learn from it, that’s when it becomes really, really valuable information, right?  Chris Johnson: Well, and then now when I go to an event, I’m always, you know, I, I’m overly friendly. I wanna be, I’m not that, you know, I don’t wanna be that person. But at the same time, I I, I treat it like, you know what, if I don’t have a rehearsal and I’m not, I’m not going on. And so I’ve really learned along the way, cuz a lot of times you get with different people, whether it’s the AV teams or whatever, and they’ll say, we’re all set. I’m like, no, we’re not at set. We’re gonna make sure this thing rolls. And even doing that, sometimes it doesn’t always, you know, go off. But you know, you, you have to set the tone. You have to let ’em know that I’m coming in here. My goal is to have an amazing impact of as much as I can, but it’s gotta, it’s gotta be in the right realm. So, and then we do the same thing, you know, ideally with podcasts and virtual events and the same things as, you know, preparation is everything. What’s the process look like? And, um, sometimes that’s what I teach, you know, Other people in this space. I’m like, what are you doing? I’m like, well, you gotta, what’s your process? What’s it like before you’re gonna get up on stage? What do you do, you know, the day before? What do you, what do you, what? How are you preparing? So, so again, that’s the stuff that I think people, um, you know, once they get the process in place and they really start to polish it, whether it’s an advisor or whatever profession, you’re in, then you can really, really get good at what you do.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I, I just love the fact though, I wanna make sure we’re spending more time on that, that you talk about the preparation, you talk about the rehearsal. I mean, we, you’re the 325th person I’ve interviewed and just had our sixth anniversary, but it’s, you know, we have the same process every time. Right. There’s your picture, there’s your bio, there’s your stuff. Here’s my notebooks. Over the last couple years, you know, they’re the same note. And I don’t say this as in bragging, it’s it’s, but you gotta have a process, right? So when I’m getting ready for my interview with you today, what does that look like? Right? So if it’s a sales meeting, somebody’s walking into, yeah, maybe you’ve given the same sales presentation a million times, but that million first time matters just as much as the first time. And so what are you doing to make that process better? So for me, my question for you there is, what do you do now to stay a student of the game, to keep getting better and growing from what you do every single day?  Chris Johnson: Well, I think I always try to do, and number one, I want to be prepared. So I just did a webinar with a group outta Chicago just before I came on, and so preparation is starting at, we did it at 11:00 AM. Eastern time. So at 10 o’clock we’re getting ready, lights, camera, action. I’ve already done, I already know who I’m talking to, what we’ve done with ’em. I know the P players, you know, it’s all that preparation. Yeah. And then I go through my slides and this is what we’re gonna discuss and I, I kind of rehearse in my mind what I’m gonna do, and then I try to bring as much energy to the party as I can. And so it’s the, the same thing over and over. And then you step back and say, okay, what resonated with ’em? What kind of q and a did we do? Were they asking? What were they not asking? So then you make some notes to yourself and like, Hey, this really resonated with ’em. These are the questions we’re getting. And so it’s not an accident now that you’re hitting those points during your presentation in the future. So to me, even though it might be similar, but it’s always new. And so if you’re not making it new and fresh, like if you did, how many webinars or how many podcasts have you done? You said 325, is that right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah.  Chris Johnson: Well, if it’s 325 and you’re bored, then the, your listeners and your viewers are gonna feel like it, you’re bored, so, right. I’m not bored. I’m excited. I wanna see the twinkle in their eye even sometimes I can’t see it, you know, with virtual, but that’s my goal. My goal is to say, how can I share this content, which I think is really important, but maybe help them understand how important it is and that how they can take it and put it into their world. So that’s always the challenge and that’s the exciting part of it. But yeah, a lot of the preparation, always looking at how can I make it better. And I’m a big fan of being curious, you know, asking questions and being really curious. What can we do better? And any, and as you know this, you’re good at this and this is what you do, but when you think you know it all, you pretty much don’t know a whole lot, so… Brett Gilliland: Right, yeah. Exactly. Chris Johnson: I’ve been doing this a long time and I always feel like I can learn something. Brett Gilliland: So I’m gonna, uh, turn the page a little bit and, uh, and I, I say this is be not just because you’re a guest on the show, I, I truly mean this, or I wouldn’t say it is you, I think you look younger today than you did in 2018. So one of the things I wrote down, I, I wrote down is how do we age gracefully? Right? You got a lot of 40 year olds probably listening to this podcast and, uh, I don’t know exactly how old you are, but you look younger than you did five years ago. So that’s a good. So let’s talk about that, how we age, gracefully?  Chris Johnson: !Yeah. So I’m, I’ve turned in 66. I five grandkids. Um, as you know, Matt and Kristen are gonna be 37, so , um, yeah, tabs in in the room with me. Tabs gonna be 75 in the fall. And we, um, we’ve been friends for a long, long time and we try to take care of business because you gotta walk the walk. But if you think about aging, you know, my book was set up, you know, if you looked at my book here, I just pull it up here so people can see it. But the reason rest is first eat move is because rest is really the pillar. And so if you don’t have the pillar of rest, I just did a. MIT Con Conference , MIT conference in Boston in the fall. And I was telling all the group, these are all CFOs, some of the top CFOs in the world. And I said, you gotta be intentional about your rest. And if you look at the financial services arena, I find more and more advisors don’t get enough rest. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Chris Johnson: That’s when I get their blood back and we look at their blood work and their testosterone level for both men and women. It’s. I already know that they’re not getting enough sleep. So, so then they were like, how’d you know that? I’m like, well, cause if your stress hormones are on the building, your sex hormones are turned off, are o off. So, so the point of it is, is we have to understand the power of, of resting. And again, if you’re not sleeping, that’s the fastest way to age the human body. So we’re a big fan of understanding stress and understanding, you know, the conversations you have with yourself cuz stress is a killer. And then, uh, you have to have strategies. To be in performing your best from a rest standpoint. And that’s how you breathe. You know, are you breathing through your nose? You using your diaphragm? Are you slowing it down? Cause we’re just the opposite. We breathe through the mouth, we breathe through the chest, and we breathe too fast. So one of the fastest way to calm the mind, relax of ice, change how you breathe, and then, and then we move into sleeping and how important it is. And with all the social influencers and we deal with every day, but people think they need, they can hack their sleep. I tell ’em, here’s the deal, there’s nothing more important than getting a good night of sleep. You have to understand the value of sleep, and if you think you wanna hack it, I’m, I’m here to tell you, you can’t. There’s no hacking sleep. And the last but not least, you like the pace of your life. I find a lot of people, especially in the financial services arena, love what they do. They do not like the pace of their life. So then we have to deal with that. And then from there we move into, you know, are they getting enough water? You know, what nutrients are they missing? Are they getting more whole foods? And then, you know, are they fasting 12 to 14 hours and then we move in our body, we’re getting sunlight. Um, so those are really as simple as it sounds, it’s no different than you were talking about your process. That’s what I do with people when they come in and do retreats. We do one-on-one training or we do live events. We help them build a, a, a sustainable, uh, foundation that allows them to age and be vibrant, you know, in that capacity as, as we age. And I think people are looking for that. And we just got back from skiing out in Colorado and I’m skiing with two of my friends and we’re both, you know, they’re a little bit younger than me, but, you know, all in that same 65 range. And, I was teasing ’em. I’m like, Hey, hey, I’ve never seen you guys ski this good. And they’re like, you know what? I’ve never seen you ski this good. And we’re all kind of patting each other on the back. But , it really was, it was three, 65 year olds have been skiing their whole life that are, are doing pretty good. So I think that’s what people are looking for from an aging standpoint. They wanna, they wanna have that vibrancy as they age. And again, um, it’s, the body is incredible. , it’s ability to heal and self-correct if you just give it the right, right ingredients.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what will you do? I always compare this to like investing money. You can’t invest a dollar today and expect it to be, you know, worth $3 tomorrow. Right? Well, I mean, I guess you could get lucky and do that. The point is, it’s compounding, it’s time, right? And same thing with our exercise at 65 years old skiing, doing all that, how many people listening to this right now wanna be 65 and skiing? Raise your hand. I think a lot of people will be raising their hand. But what were you doing when you were 35 years old or 40 years old, right? What have you been doing for the last 30, 40, 50 years of your life to be where you’re at now, to be skiing at age 65?  Chris Johnson: Well, I think the big thing, you know, way back in the day, I was an exercise physiologist, so I was always interested in playing and you know, I played sports and working out and all that kind of stuff. So we’ve always been a big fan of strength training. Cause strength training is the fountain. I would say today I’ve probably, we did a podcast that comes out on Monday on strength training. But I think the way I, I stretch a lot more, I work on more mobility flexibility. I train a lot smarter than I used to. I would say my nutrition is so much better than it used to be. Um, I’m a big fan of wheatgrass and cod liver oil and just eating real quality of whole foods and then I’m really intentional about my rest. So I think I’ve polished the, the stone quite as I’ve gotten older, but I always was interested in my health. I think that’s the biggest thing, that you have to get people to be intentional about their health. And if they’re not intentional about order than their wealth, they’re not gonna have it. And so it really is what you just said. It’s compound, compound interest. You just build and build and build, and then you keep getting better at it. And I think that’s what your, your, your group would tell you as, as advisors or whoever’s listening to this. It’s all about how do you do what you’re doing and, and, you know, make it 1% better or whatever, wherever you’re at and what’s driving you. So I think that’s, for me, I’ve always been interested in it, but I’ve learned a lot over time. I, I know a lot about medications. I know a lot about blood work that I didn’t know early in my career. But those things that I, I’ve, I’ve definitely, um, for myself personally, I, I try to really pay attention to those three pillars that are how we rest, eat, and move. Brett Gilliland: So that, let’s talk about that. The, you said strength training, um, you’re a big fan of that. So, you know, I do strength training, I do yoga, I do stretching. I do, you know, a rower or a bike or a, or a treadmill, all those different things. I got, I got another exercise. I do a lot for mobility type stuff. H how much time should we be spending on weights versus, you know, mobility, flexibility type stuff and versus cardio, those three areas. Chris Johnson: Well, I think number one is you gotta get people interested in understanding that they need to move their body every day. So that mindset needs to change. I need to move every day. Now, it could be five minutes, could be 10 minutes, but I’m gonna move my body sometime during the day because the greatest benefit of moving your body is what it does for your mind. And so we gotta get outta the mindset that workouts is just for my body, heart rate variability and all the stuff that’s going on out there, but what it does for my mind. So I’m gonna move my body every day. And then from there, I would spend a lot less time doing cardio and a lot more time working on mobility, flexibility, balance, and strength. And I think that’s the missing link out there for many people getting on a treadmill or getting on elliptical or getting on these things. There’s nothing wrong with letting your brain kind of just chill out, but that’s where I see the mistake. People are getting very, very, they’re spending too much time doing cardio and not enough balance in the routine. And so when I bring ’em in and we do training, and they’re doing X, Y, Z. I’ll challenge ’em. What’s your balance like? What’s your mobility flexibility like, what’s your strength like? And so when now we start looking at what are their goals and then really start training specifically for goals and then make it, make it enjoyable. I think that’s the big thing when you talk about movement, it has to be somewhat enjoyable where you’re not gonna repeat it. So I’m a big fan of play, you know, as we age, we need to play. I just mentioned about ski. But then you wanna train to play. And so I have a lot of people playing pickleball and you know, I play a lot of paddle ball, but that’s their workout, that’s what they do, right? They play to get in shape. I’m like, no, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta train to, to play. So anyway, so that’s really my, kind of, my thoughts on, on creating that balance in your, in your workout or, you know, your movement routine.  Brett Gilliland: And so what’s that look like for you or for, you know, people again, whether they’re 35, 45 or 65. What are you doing? Like what is that? Are are just literally old school stretching? Is it there a program for that? Like what are you doing?  Chris Johnson: Yeah, so I, so yeah, so in my book, and again we have it on our work workout Wednesdays on our website, on target living. But I always start some type of movement. So I’ll get in there and not do dynamic warmup. I’m moving my arms overhead. I’m twisting, but I’m warming the body up. And then I do a y a group, a handful of yoga poses. That works in my mobility, flexibility, balance, and strength. That might take me a total amount of time, maybe five to six, eight minutes. But I’m a big fan of working on your extremities. Like for example, I do mobility, flexibility, wrist exercises, hands my feet, my ankles. So I, I’m always doing that kind of stuff. And then I do generally some type of cardio. Like today I did mini trampoline. So I get on the mini trampoline for a minute. I’m hopping, running, jumping, doing , and then I get off that and I do a three day strength split routine. So today I did chest and back and core. I do the mini trampoline, and at the end of the workout, after I’m warmed up, I’m gonna do some restorative stretching. So I work on the hip flexors, I work on my back, I work on all these different things, and that would be something I didn’t do probably 20 years ago. So that allows me to keep my mobility flexibility and not hurt myself and feel good. So that’s kind of a typical routine for me. I warm up to get my heart rate somehow up there. I’m gonna do the strength training and then I’m gonna do finish up with some type of restorative movement. And then I work on my breathing at the end. And I find many money with clients coming in that they, you know, they’re like your clients. I mean, they’re going 900 miles an hour. They’re simply successful in their business. But they’ll say to me sometimes, this is the best hour of my week. And I said, why is that? And they said, because you intentionally get me to slow down at the end. Yeah, yeah,  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So that breathing, is it more of a meditation type breathing, or is it like belly breathing, box breathing? What, what kind of breathing are you doing?  Chris Johnson: It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s traditional belly breathing. So again, you’re gonna breathe through the nose, you know, use your diaphragm, your belly. And then I’m a big fan of, you know, the four second inhalation and the six second exhalation . And so if you can get people to do that, and they do either do that for a minute or so, the next thing you know they’re breathing five or six breaths per minute versus, you know. So it’s a skill that people have to learn because as they learn it, they’re gonna just be naturally slow breathers using the diaphragm. Yeah. And then understanding the power of box breathing is more an energy thing. That’s why the Navy Seals do it, cause they’re getting ready to go into battle. So I’m not a big fan of holding the breath when I’m really trying to get ’em to chill out. But there’s lots of different ways. In fact, in a chapter my book, I have the Lost Art of Breathing. It’s, you know, it’s a whole chapter on breathing. But yeah, if you make a simple nose belly, slowing it down, That’s, that’s really powerful stuff for people. Brett Gilliland: And I, I have found too, I’ve, I’ve been, uh, um, focused on breathing and meditation for, gosh, probably seven, eight years now. And it, it’s been a life changer for me from a guy that’s got a ton of anxiety. It’s, it’s been probably the number one thing I would say actually that’s helped me get through anxiety and, and now it be an ally, uh, versus an enemy. But I would say it’s also a big deal that when you’re sitting in that meeting and you’re in a boardroom versus working out and you kind of have some anxiousness come in, or man, this is a really big meeting and, and you know, you have to have a tough conversation. I have found the training, that training right, you do in the gym also has helped sitting at a desk. Right. That it’s like, okay, I can, I can quote unquote meditate and you not even know it. Right. But I’m slowing my heart right down.  Chris Johnson: Well, again, you what you’re just saying now you’ve developed a skill. This is a skill. People are like, oh, I already know that. Well, you don’t practice this. So it hasn’t turned into a skill. So when I look at breathing, you wanna teach people the skill of how to breathe. In fact, I had a couple in last night, I have birthday balloons, and this is something all your advisors could do with their clients, but get a bunch of birthday balloons and have ’em blow it up, and they know the strength of the diaphragm, right then. And so now you get their attention. So if you don’t have that strength in the diaphragm, you’ll become more of a chest breather, especially as you age. And the fastest way to quiet the nervous system, which your sympathetic nervous system, that’s fight or flight, is changing how you breathe. So now we have a skill that I can calm the mind, relax the body, and I can do it on demand. And nobody even knows you’re doing it.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Chris Johnson: Sometimes when I do alternate nostril breathing , that’s a whole nother level. My wife will say, you know, you’re an idiot. I’m like, okay. She, cause she knows we’re probably not having a great conversation. Yeah. As soon as I do that, she start, she starts to laugh and then, you know, things become a little bit more relaxed, but the breathing is a powerful skill.  Brett Gilliland: Yes, it is. It is. What have you seen, I’m sure you have, you’ve been doing this a long time. I’ve, I’ve been seeing people, these, these people hunt social media that tape their mouth at night to, to sleep. What, what are they doing there?  Chris Johnson: Well, the big thing, we were running out during covid toilet paper and mouth tape. And so when James Nester came out with, you know, the book Breathe, which is about 400 pages, about how to breathe, you know, he would, he lead starts his book off talking about, you know, having the awareness with the mouth ,mouth tape. And so when people, you know, tape their, your, your nose closed and they breathe only through the mouth, that turns into a disaster. And then we do the mouth tape, now they realize they breathe a lot more through their mouth than they knew. So it’s more of an awareness thing. I don’t think you need to go to a level where you have to tape your mouth. Being more aware of it during your day and people around you, how many people breathe through their mouth and not through their nose. So during my day, most of the time I try to breathe through the nose 24 7, even when I’m in the gym, unless the intensity gets too high. So yeah, it’s just an awareness but yeah, I don’t think people need to go to the extremes with mouth tape.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I’m with. And you exhale through your mouth when you’re breathing.  Chris Johnson: I always breathe, exhale through my nose. Inhale through my nose. Exhale through my nose.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. Okay.  Chris Johnson: So it’s more of, you know, cause the nasal passages are the switchboard for the nervous system. And there’s nothing wrong, like in yoga, they’re always getting you to exhale through the mouth. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I like to teach my clients, inhale, exhale through the nose.  Brett Gilliland: Okay, that’s good to know. So let’s talk about the eating. So we talked about rest. It’s the fastest way to age a human body. If we’re not doing it, we gotta be purposeful with it. We gotta be intentional. Uh, we’ve talked about moving right there. Let’s talk about eat. I went a little bit outta order, but, uh, rest, eat, move. Chris Johnson: It’s okay.  Brett Gilliland: What are we talking about eating now? What, what kind of habits do we need to be creating? We, we all know that, right? Eat healthy, eat your vegetables, shop around the, the exterior edges of the, of the grocery store and all that stuff. But let’s dive deeper into that.  Chris Johnson: Well, I think the biggest thing you have to understand about eating is if the nervous system is out of balance. You can’t have good digestion so the first thing you have to get under control is stress and understand the power of sleeping and the breathing and all this stuff. Once you can understand that a little bit, it’s not think about what nutrients are you missing. Is it B vitamins, it’s omega-3 fats, whatever it is. And number two, what are you not absorbing? So I always try to teach all my clients that your gut is a garden, and if you look at your gut as a garden, then everything begins in. So hormones, melatonin, serotonin, all these wonderful neurotransmitters, sleep hormones, or testosterone, growth hormone, it’s all made in the gut. Well, if the gut’s not healthy, you’re not gonna be healthy. So step one is you gotta get the gut healthy. Treat it like a garden. That’s the soil, that’s the seeds, that’s the water, that’s the sunlight. So once that’s under control, then we start looking at, you know, where do we begin? And it really begins with pre-pro and symbiotic foods. Not supplements, but foods. And most of those live in the carbohydrate family. So it’s apples, bananas, real oatmeal, sauerkraut, pickles. You know, we have a whole handout on, you know, uh, pre-pro and symbiotics kakao nibs coconut. So once I start bringing some of those real foods into the body, then we get into the water, making sure they’re hydrated. Cuz water is simple as it sounds for everybody. If they don’t put it in front of ’em, they get behind. It’s too late. Yeah. So you really need to get, you know, the minimum water. I’m a big fan of ginger and, you know, uh, lemons and things like that. But then, then we move into the super foods and so this is a big part of our business. I don’t wanna be a commercial. But you know, cod liver oil, we, we promote cell cod liver oil because omega-3 fats is about 95% of your population deficient. And the number one benefit of omega-3 fats, including cod liver oil, is brain health. And so when you talk about aging, if you’re not getting an omega-3 fat, you will not age well. So it’s good for your skin, your digestion, your heart. It’s great for hormones, anti-inflammatory. and this high vitamin D three natural. So the first thing I try to get all my clients to get some from omega-3 S, flax, chia, the cod liver oil. And then from there we move into Chlorophyl. Cause chlorophyl is great for the gut, anything dark green, but really wanting to start eating chlorophyl foods. So that’s gonna be kale, spinach, broccoli, bach choy. And then what we promote is spirulina chlorella, which is a freshwater alge which is high nucleic acids, a builder immune system, and then frozen wheatgrass. So now we cover lots of ground with very little supplementation, and that gets us to the next piece, which is the source. And what the source means is where does it come from? So if you’re eating an apple, you know, the apple’s the source. Then we turn into apple cider vinegar or apple cider vinegar, gummies. We keep moving away and that’s what the, that’s what I see right now in the world today. Everybody’s doing all these supplements and reality is why, just because you put it in the body does not mean your body’s gonna break it down and absorb it. So, so that’s nutritionally when you say, okay, let’s get the gut healthy. Look at some of those foods that make the gut healthy, make sure you’re getting enough water, then we. Certain nutrients were missing. Like my oatmeal on the run in the morning is loaded with B vitamins loaded with magnesium, but it’s all coming from food, so it’s a hundred percent rolled thick oats to cacao nibs, shredded coconut, so maybe some frozen raspberry cuppa, raisin, some nuts. Plant milk, cinnamon. In the refrigerator the night before loaded. And again, when I’m doing training here at our facility with our clients, especially in the morning, I bring it so then they like, oh my God, this is so easy and it’s so this and so that. And by the way, it tastes good and it’s great for my gut health. So that’s pretty…. Brett Gilliland: …put that in a bowl. You put that into a bowl at night before you go to bed or whatever, put it in there and it’s ready to rock the next day. You have nothing to do other than just start eatin’ it?  Chris Johnson: You just start eating it. Yeah. So again, simple. We bring groups in here. I had a group in here a couple weeks ago, 25 people I made oatmeal the night before. Probably took me, maybe, maybe took me a minute to make, doesn’t cost hardly anything but the real thick oats. Put ’em in the, the glass container, put your stuff in it the night before. It’s perfect. Oatmeal, can’t really screw it up. Any monkey can make it. And that’s the only in, in our, in our cookbook. The only recipe I get credit for is the oatmeal run. So the kids are kind of making fun of me in the, in that. So, and then from and from there, there, from there we look at, you know, meal patterning and the timing. And so once I start upgrading using the food target, so if you’re, you know, if you’re, if your folks aren’t familiar with this food target, we can send you this. Again, it’s easy to do. You can send it to your listeners , but it’s just upgrading. And then look at your timing. Am I fasting 12 to 14 hours overnight and am I eating, you know, three or four, five times a day? So, and that’s the big thing out there right now is like, everybody’s skipping meals, shrinking their time. I’m like, no, no. If you wanna be healthy and have good gut health and not stress the body, not be on a diet, then you need to make sure you’re fasting overnight and then you’re, you’re eating throughout the day. So, yeah. Yeah. We make this so hard sometimes., , so.  Brett Gilliland: It is. It’s amazing, isn’t it? But you just go back to normal things the way our forefathers ate, you know, hundreds of years ago. It’s pretty simple.  Chris Johnson: Well, I think the thing we’re seeing more today, you know, whether it’s the keto or whatever, and so we’re cutting macronutrients out of the diet and that’s not gonna work. Yep. So, you know, back in the, back in the eighties, we cut out fat. In the nineties we had a high protein, low carb. Today it’s the high fat, no carb, so we need the OAC or nutrients cuz they’re essential. We need healthy fats, we need healthy proteins, and you need healthy carbs. So that’s what’s, that’s where people are getting it wrong, in my opinion. And I’m seeing this because, and that’s the world we deal with and with their blood work, I get their blood work back and their hematology report’s not good. Their GFR, their kidney function’s not good, testosterone’s lower than they want it to be. They don’t know what they’re doing wrong. I’m like, well, yeah, you’re doing protein shakes, you’re doing energy drinks, you know, it’s not an accident to what I see. Brett Gilliland: Right.  Chris Johnson: And then they waking up because the blood work doesn’t lie. Brett Gilliland: And what’s the wheat wheatgrass do for us? So the wheatgrass is high in chlorophyl, which is natural detoxifying, but wheatgrass is the highest source of minerals of any nutrient in the world. So that’s, it’s grown in the ground for five months. We get ours from a, a farm about 120 miles north of Toranto. So the wheatgrass comes to your house in a frozen ice cube and you can just put it in a glass of water and it’s the first thing most people do in the morning. Chris Johnson: That’s, that’s a big, that’s a big thing we try to promote because it covers so much ground. I don’t have to take all these minerals cuz it is in the food back to the source. So that’s… Brett Gilliland: it just melts over time. It just, it just melts in the water and just… Chris Johnson: Yeah, you’re just drinking. It’s clean tasting. You know, I had a couple in here last night and um, they were like, is this gonna taste bad? I’m like, you’ll be the judge. I’m like, wow, it tastes pretty clean. I’m like, yeah, it’s supposed not, supposed to taste bad. Thing with a cod liver. Liver shouldn’t taste bad. Organic lemon flavor. Brett Gilliland: And if I’m doing a omega-3 vitamin, do you like that versus, uh, the, because you guys do the liquid, right? Chris Johnson: Yeah. So the reason we, so back to the source. So again, if you looked at this bottle here, we get it from Dutch Harbor, Alaska. It’s high in vitamin D-3, it’s line caught. Livers are frozen on the boat. But now the dosage, one tablespoon a day would probably be equivalent to maybe 6, 8, 10 gel tablets. So now you’re not doing the gel tablets. So again, we’re getting away from it. So my dose isn’t as good, the quality’s not as good, but then people are afraid of the taste. I’m like, okay, you try it. And they’re like, that’s when I do live events. Or Matt does it, or Kristen, we take these things. People are shocked at the taste. I’m like, well, it did. It shouldn’t taste bad. So that’s what we’re missing out there. It’s no different than financial services arena. It’s all about the quality. And if you can get people to do higher quality and do the compound interest, then their need for all these little itty bitty supplements starts to disappear. Brett Gilliland: This is great. I really appreciate all this and we’ll keep div…. We’ll put the link, uh, for those listening and watching to the Rest. Eat. Move., Uh, you have the power to feel your best book in the, in the show. Show notes here, pick it up. I can tell you they’re great authors cuz I have read their books. And, uh, it’s phenomenal. So I’ll be buying that one as soon as we get off here.  Chris Johnson: Yep.  Brett Gilliland: I buy some wheat grass. Don’t be buying. I’ve been fighting the wheat grass. Chris Johnson: We’ll be buying it. We’ll, we’ll we’ll send it to you. I’ll send you book.  Brett Gilliland: Alright. I, I, I’ve been, uh, fighting the wheat grass and cod liver oil, so I’m just, I’m, I circled it and said buy it. That’s why I put in my notes right here, so I’ll be, you’ll, you’ll be getting a sale. At least one sale today outta me.  Chris Johnson: Well, I think, I think our cod liver oil and, no, I’m not thinking I know it. It’s, I think it’s the best quality in the world. Yeah. And so we spend a lot of time and energy really getting that. And the same thing goes with the wheatgrass. So again, you be the judge. But yeah, those are two really powerful, um, super foods that we, we recommend.  Brett Gilliland: And then my last thing, kinda on the Rest. Eat. Move. Thing that move. How many days a week are you working out so hard that you’re breaking a sweat? Like how important is that versus, you know, you’re flex? Like if I’m moving around and doing some of those yoga, like I don’t, I can do 40 minutes of yoga, not really sweat. So do I need to be sweating every day?  Chris Johnson: No. No. Okay. What you need to be doing is you need to be doing movement. And like you said, sometimes movement’s gonna be more taxing and other times it’s not. But if, again, if we redline all the time, that’s no fun.  Brett Gilliland: No.  Chris Johnson: So that won’t last long. In fact, your stress hormones will go up. So when I’m over training, back to the bodybuilding, I’ve competed in a 10 bodybuilding contest since 1985 when I was over training. My resting heart rate would always go up. So I don’t want your, your, your viewers, your listeners to overtrain, and so that’s part of the recovery. But I want you to move. So like certain days I might just do stretching and, and I, I’m go for a walk and it’s pretty chill pill or maybe some yoga activities. I would say yoga’s easy, cuz sometimes yoga can be really hard challenging.  Brett Gilliland: Oh right.  Chris Johnson: But you don’t always need to break a sweat, you know, get into anaerobic, you know, training, that kind of thing, so. But I’m a huge fan of what movement does for my mind. Brett Gilliland: I like it. So I, I picked up, uh, a couple of your core values, uh, from your website. I, I, I’m a huge believer. Our firm’s a huge believer in our core values. Also trust and respect. Um, so I picked two. Anything is possible. And then curiosity and growth. Uh, those are two of your guys’ core values. So when, when you hear those, like, let’s talk about that anything is possible, what does that mean to you?  Chris Johnson: Well, when it kind of gets in towards health again, I think your listeners all would agree. If you don’t have your health, you have very little. Yeah, and so why is that not front and center for more organizations? That’s why Matt and I wrote Capacity, cuz again, we’d get, always get bunted. Hey, we’ll get to that when we get a chance. Well, I go, wait, wait a minute. That’s your four. That’s your core. Your people are always your greatest asset and the greatest asset of your people is their health. So when it sounded about being perfect, but understanding that if I had greater energy throughout my day, I have a bit more capacity. I feel good. I get a good night’s sleep. The list I’m gonna, I’m gonna rock the house. Yeah. I’m gonna have so much, you know, more to give. So, so that’s, that’s the foundation of pillars, so, so big part of that is if you’re not going in a great direction, well maybe start asking better questions. How could I be a little healthier? How could I enjoy the process? So I think that’s the challenge all the time, is I, I challenge ’em from a curiosity stand. If you’re on a cholesterol medication, you don’t need to be on it if you’re willing to change your lifestyle. Yeah. If you’re a diabetic, you don’t need to be a type two diabetic. It’s not irreversible, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, so, so that’s where you start throwing that, that curiosity that, you know, why do I, why don’t I sleep anymore? Why do I have ED? Why do I have, you know, a problem with my testosterone, right? Why do I have trouble sleeping? But when you get curious, those are the questions we’re always pushing the buttons. Then you start uncovering the real answer and the human body, as long as I’ve been, you know, it’s amazing ability to heal and self correct.  So it’s no different if you start today and you don’t have a whole lot of resources financially, we all know if you start doing a little bit at a time, it starts to add and add and add, and the next thing you know, people are doing pretty good.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Taking my notes here. Awesome. Um, curiosity and growth. I think we talked about that. So, um, your, your daily choices. I mean, when you look at your day, if I follow you around with a camera every day, all day, what am what am I finding? Obviously the rest, eat, move is important, but what, what are some more things, habits, rituals, that you have that have helped you become, you know, super successful over your lifetime? Chris Johnson: Well, a thing, I really, I really focus on getting good sleep. So, and I, and I look at my lifestyle, I try to really pay attention to my space in my life. So if I don’t have a lot of space in my life, I’m not gonna be able to write books. I’m not gonna probably be very good on stage. I’m probably not gonna be very good, you know, with my kids and my spouse and my grandkids. So that’s really important to me. Um, and then from a business standpoint, you know, I try to bring energy here every day. I mean, I’m a, I’m very intentional about my energy and so as kind of a leader in our organization, you know, if I come in and I’m like, oh, I just don’t feel like it today. I’m like, you kind of have to fake it sometimes. But if I’m not having good energy, then I step back and say, what am I doing that I’m not real happy about? And so, you know, what’s my process look like? Do I have enough space? Do I have enough downtime? Am I going from meeting to meeting? I used to work for a hospital many, many years ago and it was crazy how many meetings we would have in one day. So, so I really look at my space and my day and do I have enough time to eat? Do I have enough time to move? Do I have enough time to breathe? You know, all that stuff. That’s kind of why I set the foundation and then I start really being intentional about what I’m gonna get done today. So I’m always looking at like, today, what am I, what do I have to do today? I have to leave the off. I gotta get it done today. So I’m not doing, trying to do 10 things, but what are the three most important rocks I gotta move today. Yeah. So that’s kind of how I look at my business, but the foundation of my business is always based on around my lifestyle.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. How much of that planning are you doing? Are you writing it down in a journal on your phone, a little post-it note, like, what’s that look like for you?  Chris Johnson: Well, my son will tell you I’m a paper guy, so I write it on paper and then what I have is I use Brian Moran. Brian Moran is 12 week year, the author of the 12, 12 week year. And I use that plan for everybody. And so at the beginning of the week, I look at my 12 week year and what are my rocks? I’m moving this week. and then I break it down. You know, when I come in in the morning, you know, if I’d have time later, later that later that day, or what am I gonna do in the morning? And I go, okay, this is what I gotta do today. And then if I don’t like what’s going on, I gotta really look at adjusting my calendar. Like if I got too many meetings, I can’t get to this. I’m like, wow, why, why am I not blocking this time to do the stuff that’s most important? So, so I use that model and I think that’s helped me a lot over the years. Of setting up my calendar and my schedule and when my schedule’s flowing, then I’m flowing. Yeah. And that allows me to come up with, you know, good videos and good content and things that we do in our business. But I think scheduling is a big deal for people cuz they have too little space in their life. Yeah. And they don’t like the pace of their life. So to me, I’m always looking at do I like the pace of my life? And if I don’t, I try to pay attention to that. And if I don’t do that, then everything else starts to fall apart, including lifestyle habits.  Brett Gilliland: It’s funny, I was just pulling up my, um, phone here. So I go to my calendar every, every Wednesday, you know, from one to three. It’s already pre-booked in my calendar. Strategic think time. And I’ve been doing this for years and it’s funny how many people I’ve shared this with, but nobody really ever does it. Um, but just having think time put on your calendar on repeat. You know, I used to, I used to do an hour and a half of it. Now it’s two hours where I just sit down with my black journal here, an ink pen and no technology and just think, and sometimes you literally just sit there and you kinda look out the window and you just, but you think, and, and I have found it to be some of the most critically important time for me as a leader, as a father, as a husband of, of anything I do all week long. Chris Johnson: Well, and I think the big thing you’re seeing right there is you give yourself some stillness. And in that stillness is where all the good stuff comes out. If you looked at, you know how the mind works, you have the conscious, subconscious, and unconscious. And so again, that two hour block gives you that space in your mind to, to think, and again about, talk about sharpening the saw. I mean, how incredible is that? And then people will say, well, I don’t have time to do that. You don’t have time not to.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Chris Johnson: If you don’t have time not to, then you need that time because the time we love to waste is not wasted time. You might be looking out the window, but you’re getting your mind right for some, something crazy good in your world. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. That’s right. Chris Johnson: So I always have to remind myself like, I was flying back from Houston, uh, a week ago and I’m on the plane and I’m like, all these things came in my brain cuz I didn’t have, I wasn’t watching tv. I wasn’t, you know, texting, I wasn’t doing anything except just sitting there. And then I had, I’m right with you. I’m a paper guy, I’m writing the stuff down. I’m like, wow, okay, that’s cool. I need to write, you know what I mean? But, but you have to have that stillness to let these things up. And I, so I love what you’re saying, to have that on repeat and, and do it every week. And again, I, I think it needs to be not something you don’t do once a month, but you do weekly. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, absolutely. So where do our listeners find more of Chris Johnson and On Target Living? Where should we be sending them in the show notes here? Chris Johnson: Well, I think you could send, uh, it’s our website, which is ontargetliving.Com and if you wanna give him my email, I’m happy to chat with him. As you know, my son Matt used to say, dad, you’re too available. I’m like, uh, that’s the goal. So, and I think Matt’s definitely changed this tune over time because we’re here to help you. But my, my email’s, my name Chris Johnson with a C, all one word at ontargetliving.com. (chris@ontargetliving.com) so yeah, we have a great team. We have a lot of resources. Podcast comes out every week and um, we have to get you on our podcast. Brett Gilliland: Let’s do it. I would love it, man.  Chris Johnson: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: It’d be fun.  Chris Johnson: Absolutely. We’ll do that.  Brett Gilliland: Uh, well great. This has been awesome and, uh, always love spending time with the Johnson family and, uh, keep up the great work with On Target Living and, uh, and just thanks again for being on the Circuit of Success.  Chris Johnson: My pleasure. See you Brett. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Discover how Elle Scott’s decision to leave sales for a Fortune 100 company and pursue a career in Iridology has allowed her to do what she loves: helping people. Elle discusses how Iridology can offer an understanding of the happenings within the body and how adjusting aspects of your life according to the information you receive can help you revitalize physical, mental, and emotional well-being. Learn about her journey and insight into creating a healthy lifestyle. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Elle Scott with me. Elle, how you doing?  Elle Scott: I’m doing fantastic. Thanks for having me. Brett Gilliland: It’s a little warmer, I believe, where you’re at. It’s uh, just a tad warmer, maybe like 60, 70 degrees warmer… Elle Scott: Maybe, like 85. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Scott: …but I’m not rubbing it in. Brett Gilliland: No, exactly. And that’s okay. That’s okay. At least I’m looking out, I’m seeing sunshine and it’s beautiful out. Uh, at least, uh, you know, as beautiful as it can be in January, or I guess February now, isn’t it? February here in Greater St. Louis area. So, Well, Elle we’re gonna dive into a lot of great stuff. We’re gonna talk mindset, we’re gonna talk, uh, iridology or you’re an iridologist, which if I’m even saying that correctly, I am new to this. I am learning about it. I saw you on another podcast. I’m like, Hey, we gotta get her on here and learn about this. Uh, but before we do that, uh, I would love to just kind of dive into the backstory of what’s made you, the woman you are today and what’s gotten you to where you’re, where you’ve gotten. Elle Scott: Sure. So, uh, first of all, a huge fan of mindset, and I had the privilege of being raised by two entrepreneurs. So my mom and my dad, who were mainly in the real estate and construction field, and they were introduced to a lot of mindsets. So as a young child, you know, 10, 11 years old, I’m readingAhmed Dino and Zig Zigler. Yeah, . Um, and of course the, the all famous Napoleon Hill, which, uh, I consider that guy. My, my mentor though, never met him. Yeah. But his books are very impactful to me, and so that was always at the forefront growing up, and I ate it up. I wanted to know everything about how one manifests, how one directs energy. So I was that kid. And I also had a very strong desire to be successful. And, you know, I had done a lot of different things. I tend, uh, or had bounced around to a lot of different industries and tried different things. Did the, did the high school, college, uh, played college, uh, collegiate golf, uh, for Irvine, and that was fantastic and fun. Uh, but I wanted to try something else and really make it into something that would make me a lot of money. Not that golf wouldn’t professionally.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Elle Scott: But it’s, I wasn’t that competitive… Brett Gilliland: A little bit different deal.  Elle Scott: …I was that. Right, I was that gal that, you know, told my coach, well, why can’t I smoke a cigar and wear, you know, skirts while we’re competing? He’s like, you’re not college material [inaudible]  Brett Gilliland: That’s not how it works.  Elle Scott: Exactly. Uh, so, uh, right out of college went into technology sales, so, software, Um, I mean obviously at the time there was still, uh, we were still using mainframe. We were still using Excel as base for our software programs and such. And so I got an early started to software sales. Uh, worked a lot with the state, uh, state government, and then went into more software and then cloud, and spent about 17 years in that industry, which I absolutely loved. There was just, you know, different types watching. This, the technology advanced so quickly. Obviously business acumen, I gotta travel. I worked from home, made my own schedule, so I got really, really spoiled very, very quickly and, and really enjoyed that. But during those times of working from home, I was doing a lot of humanitarian work. also something instilled in me as a young kid, you know, we were constantly, uh, supporting families in different countries in need and things that were more on the home front, like helping rebuild schools for Indian reservations and such. So all of this formulated kind of this, this drive to maybe move away from the technology realm. I was immensely successful in it, but eventually wanted to kinda move away into something else, and that’s where kinda iridology comes in.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So tell us, uh, tell our listeners what, what is iridology? So for, for a guy like me that doesn’t know anything other than obviously has something to do with the eye, uh, what is iridology? Elle Scott: Sure. So iridology is the only soft tissue analysis at present, uh, that exists. And basically it’s a snapshot of your entire system or your entire health. So lymphatic system, skeletal, uh, muscular organs, uh, you know, endocrine system, and then the skin and digestion, all of it as a whole is a picture of your health and it’s historic information. So, for example, um, you know, you’re, you’re formed in a womb and the genetics that are passed down, we can see some genetic, uh, in or inherit weaknesses or dispositions within the iris. But basically we use all that information from, you know, womb to now and basically build a roadmap to your health and where you wanna go with that. So it’s, it’s pretty fascinating. It’s eerily accurate. So my, one of my favorite things about iridology is I won’t know a single thing about your health, about who you are. Some, I don’t even know they’re genders, which is a question I obviously have to ask depending on… Brett Gilliland: Sure. Elle Scott: …uh, things that show up in the eye. But then I returned that analysis back to that person and they look at me like I just did some sort of witchcraft because it’s that accurate.  Brett Gilliland: And so what, so are you doing this with an eye? I mean, am I taking a picture of my eye right now and texting it to you and then we’re gonna do this live on the podcast? Or like what? Like what do we do here? Like how do we do this? What, what is somebody listening this, what do they take away from that?  Elle Scott: Yeah, great question. So, you know, back in the day and, and iridology’s been around since the 1800s. The suspect is, it’s actually been around since, you know, ancient Egyptian times, but nothing’s documented or things that we can’t understand. But, uh, up until the 1800s, it’s been, um, a, a study. And then, uh, Dr. Bernard Jensen brought it into the states in the 1900s and it became a practice. But the technology, of course now we have is in our hands, and we can use the cameras in our phones and most of my clients are from all over the world, and they do take a closeup picture with their phone and send it to me for analysis. I also can take it with, uh, what I call the magic cam and it’s this Frankenstein created custom camera that gets up really super close in the right lighting and it can get these super crazy cool pictures, but it’s not necessary anymore because of the technology we have in our phones.  Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. So, so if I did that and I send it to you in your office, and, and so what, what type of stuff are you telling me? So again, for our listeners or people watching, I’m taking a picture of my, eye you know, with my iPhone of my eyeball, I’m sending it to you. So like, what are some examples of things that you’ve done lately to help people you know, better their lives, right. Become the best version of them all from a dang picture, from their eyeball. What is it?  Elle Scott: Yeah. Gosh. I mean, it’s, it’s everything from getting their energy source back. Right, I mean, you have people out there who have hardly any energy or they’re in constant pain. Um, I tend to, to move away from using, um, you know, labels because, but it’s easier for people to understand that. So like arthritic type symptoms to anything from a stage 2, 3, 4, 5 type of situation. Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Elle Scott: Um, and we really only use, and, and all we’re using is information that the nervous system is returning to the iris, right? And saying, Hey, I’m in this part of distress. A lot of this information you could not even be experiencing in your, now this could be stuff that we see that could, that could actually become an issue in the future. So it’s, it’s even, it’s even more of, um, a preemptive strike, if you will.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Scott: To some of the health issues. But, um, mainly what I’m doing is, is my focus is a lymphatic system, because literally that’s the only way for someone to get healthy at, at, at a, at a deep level, healthy to get out, you know, systemic pain and chronic issues. We always go back to lymphatic system because that’s your sewer system, and that’s where we focus in our work to help people, you know, relieve what, whatever it’s. Brett Gilliland: And, and let’s, so let’s just assume I had that issue, right? And I had this pain and I had this lymphatic system that needed the cleaning out. So then what is it? Is it my diet? Is it exercise? Is it, uh, you know, taking vitamins? Is it all the above? What does that look like?  Elle Scott: Sure. So, uh, you know, there’s different levels of detox and we, we call it detox and really it’s cleansing, but it’s a deep cleansing, right? It’s something that not a lot of people really utilize, but is becoming more popular as we start to, you know, deep dive into the science. But, um it’s really mainly through diet. You figure your sewer system is everything affected by what you take into your body. So from the deepest levels of detoxification, we’re talking, of course, changing it up to more of the base chemistry. When I say base chemistry, I mean there’s only two sides of chemistry. There’s the acid side, which is corrosive, and that’s what causes all the pain and inflammation. And then there’s the bay side of chemistry, which is closer to alkaline, but not to the extreme cause that’s where you’re gonna get some issues. But, uh, you’re really gonna look at kind of your base chemistry, fruits and foods like fruits, berries, melons, some of the softer, you know, fruit, vegetables, and then strong herbs, not necessarily supplements, because those are slightly different than herbs. Supplements are, as they say, um, but the body prefers synergistic herbs, rather than elemental supplements. Uh, but again, this just comes down to choose your own adventure. How deep do you wanna go? What are we looking at when we look at the eye and the state of your health? And that determines how deep we go and kind of the direction. But usually it’s, it’s in those two realms, it’s always. Diet. And then of course I stress mentality. I stress intention, I stress that non-physical side of this because if you don’t want to be well, or if you don’t believe you can’t be, well, then we need to start working on that first.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And that’s hard to do, right? If, if, if you and I both agree with that, I would think we, we love the mindset. We, we believe in positive attitude. You know, my wife and I talk to our, our kids all the time. If you, if you think you can’t, if you think you can, you can’t. Right? Either way. You’re right. Uh, and it’s all about right up here and what we’re thinking and so, so to talk to our listener that may not believe to the level you and I believe that that’s possible, what advice would you have for them? Elle Scott: I would say, first of all, take inventory and look at your results in your life. If what you are staring at is not something you enjoy, is not something you like or it’s something you would like to improve. Consider that you are in control of that, because the opposite side to not being in control of your own outcome is that you’re a victim. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Elle Scott: And no one wants to admit that they’re the victim, right? No one wants to sit there and say, well, yeah, I’m absolute victim and I’m just. Things are happening to me.  Brett Gilliland: Right, right. Elle Scott: I think majority of people would say, no, no, I’m in control of this. I, I, I’m gonna take control of this. And it’s really empowering. First, I would empower anyone to understand that that really is the case. You are not just, things aren’t happening to you. But that also is something I would empower someone and say, you can change that. And that’s me handing back your responsibility. Back to you. Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Elle Scott: And start there. And then just try it. Just try small things. Don’t go big. Don’t say, you know, next thing. I want a Bentley in my, in my, uh, garage in two days. And you’re over there, you know, chanting for it. Try something small. Try…  Brett Gilliland: It’s taking action every day, right? Elle Scott: And take action. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot to be said, different schools of thought. You know, we’ve, we’ve listened to many masters and read many books, so there’s different ways to go about it. You can also tap into the way you feel because feelings are a vibration. They, they often help direct our thoughts or let us know where our thoughts are pointed and where our energy is going. Uh, but yes, ultimately take action, but don’t replace action or don’t replace mindset with action. Cause then you’re going too far. You’re just gonna try to effort your way through everything. Which if again, intention, I can get a client and they can say, I don’t believe in any of this, or I don’t believe I can be well, but I’m gonna go do everything you tell me to do. It’s not gonna work. You can’t action your way to belief. Brett Gilliland: That’s right.  Elle Scott: Belief. Belief is simply a thought you continue to believe or… Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s funny you say that. So the circuits of the Circuit of Success, hence the name of this podcast, the first one is your attitude, right? I always say you decide where you go. You decide when you wake up, you’re gonna be a victor or a victim, right? So yeah, once I decide that, then there’s my belief system because between the two, there’s gonna be this thing in life we call rejection, right? And rejection is gonna get me on my day of like, well, crap, I woke up in a great mood, but uh, this little light on my phone is bad news. Right. Well then it comes to my belief system, right? And I’m going really quick here on this, but my belief system, then I ultimately have to take action to get the results that I want, right? And so when you hear it laid out, like that attitude, your belief system, the actions ultimately get your results. What do you think about that? Elle Scott: I, I agree. Right. There’s we’re, we are human beings, not human doings. However, when you, there’s, I always say only take action when you’re in alignment. That’s the most important part, because taking action out of alignment isn’t gonna produce anything, but they’re always has to be a level of action. Almost, you wouldn’t be able to help. If you’re inspired and you believe in it, you’re like, there’s nothing that could hold me back from doing it. So yes, there’s always that level of action. It’s, it’s a, it’s a whole look to your point. Those are all connected. Brett Gilliland: So I would love to know, I like this question. Uh, he probably hence why I ask it, right? Um, but if, if I were to follow you around every day and I’m, I’m hanging out with Elle Scott and I get to have a camera and say, show people. These are the no miss things that you do every single day. What are those things for you to be at the top of your game?  Elle Scott: Sunlight, for sure. And if you can’t get that, um, you know, I get that everyone’s got a different climate. Um, do your best to get some form of self soothing type energy, right? Get, get some sunlight. Get some warmth. If you’re in the colder regions, um, maybe get into, you know, something that, that energizes you, because we do need those elements, and that’s sometimes tough in the winter, so I get that. Uh, but for me it’s, I get out, I get, I need fresh air, I need sun. Or just daylight. And then, um, I, of course, I, I don’t jump right into my work as much as that. And through my 17 years of being in a career, that can be tough. You know, you’re salesperson wants to know how are my deals going?  Brett Gilliland: Right. Elle Scott: But I really make sure that I start my day off with aligning myself with my energy, checking in, how am I doing today? I go take my walk. I, of course, that’s a form of meditation, and I tap in and set my intention with my energy. I may not be setting the intention of I’m gonna do this, this, this, and this, and this, because again, I wanna make sure that energy and the feeling and my attitude is in check first. So, uh, that’s usually what I do every single day. And then I start my day off with fruit. Um, whether that’s I eat it or I juice it because again, I’m breaking that fast. So I’m moving my body a little bit. I’m breaking my fast with the most cleansing astringent properties to keep my system, uh, good. And again, I’ve fasted all night long during sleep. And, um, and then I jump into my work, you know, with, with clients and whatnot. So I’m, I’m constantly communicating with them, um, and making sure that it’s on all fronts, not just doing eyes, but when we do health consults and I’m, I’m checking in, how are they doing? This is a process. And providing more, uh, encouragement on the mental side or throwing more resources to keep. Keep them going on this. And then I always leave time to do nothing. This is the other thing, blank. Nothing, literally just stare at the wall. I, I really, I really stress that in this, in this day and age, we have instant gratification with information. Everything’s ping us and I really take a point to sit in a state of silence and do my best to not to do anything. So I just can decompress and receive whatever, you know, inspiration I need to.  Brett Gilliland: Which is hard to do, right? As a go-getter, as a, a hard charge in person. I think it takes practice to do that. I mean, for me, I, I, I do that same thing, but more of a meditation, breathing exercises and, but it’s really hard. Like even this mornings was really, really hard to do. Like I just didn’t wanna do it, uh, for some reason. And I don’t normally feel that way, but for today, I didn’t wanna do it, but I did it. And, but I’m glad I did it, you know, and it, but it’s really, really hard to do that . Elle Scott: It is, you know, back in the days when I was surfing every day, um, when I, I lived in Southern California, so I’d get up, I’d surf every morning and Dana points and really enjoy it. But lemme tell you, I am not a fan of cold at all. So there’s no warm water like we have here in Florida, in Southern California. But I would’ve to give myself that pep talk, like, no, you’re gonna be so much happier after you do it. And it’s gonna set your tone for the day. Salt water, which is energizing and wonderful and cleansing. So I totally get it. And some days I’ll force myself and I say force, or rather I empower myself to do something that perhaps I may not be ready to at that moment. And be good. And then some days I honor the fact that it’s just not gonna happen and something else is pulling me. So I’m, I’m not a rigid person whatsoever with my routine. Brett Gilliland: I love it. What, uh, what are you glad, or what, what risk are you happy that you took in your life? Um, that at the time was scary as hell, uh, but you did it and, uh, you’re glad you did it.  Elle Scott: I would say, leaving what I considered the best role and job I had ever had. And that was with the last company, AWS or Amazon. Fantastic company. Loved my teams. I was succeeding beyond any other years that I’d been in this career and I was making the most money in my life. I mean, everything was fantastic and to step away to work on personal business was a very, and I swore I would never do that. You know, I had stepped away many years before just to take a break. I really just wanted to shake things up and I literally became a flight attendant for a year and it was a blast. Oh yeah. I mean, like I said, total just random out of left field. … Brett Gilliland: Right. Elle Scott: I wanted to try it out and I thought, Um, when am I ever gonna say I can do this. I’m not gonna wait till I’m 60. So I took a break at one year, took a break, went to, uh, Nepal to rebuild homes after their really devastating earthquake and became a flight attendant. Enjoyed the travel and serving people and, um, and then I went back to, to work, but I swore I would never do that again. It’s not that it was a horrible experience, it was just, you know, anytime you leave. that, uh, very lucrative career and that stability, there’s always the unknown, and I swore that I would, I got that outta my system. But I’ve always been an individual who my number one is to, one, be happy and fulfilled, but two help people. And though I was helping people at a level in my industry, I really wanted to help people at a deeper level where I felt like I’m one of the only people that could do this. You know, I’m replaceable at these companies. Though I love these people and I’m doing a great job and succeeding. It’s time for me to step out. And it was, I mean, I, I have to say to the level where there were mornings where I wanted to just throw up.  Brett Gilliland: Wow, scary.  Elle Scott: That I could not believe I was going to. Yeah. It was, and I at least had myself to a financial position where I could, you know, had my investments, had the support of family and friends, and it scared everyone else too. But I made the leap and it’s been [inaudible]  Brett Gilliland: What in the hell are you doing, Elle? Elle Scott: Oh, like, you’re an idiot. Don’t do, oh, and also in the best community or best, uh, economy we’ve ever had. I mean, we’re talking go, you know, All these companies are just laying people off left and right. So if you weren’t already in there, you are not getting a job.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, right! Elle Scott: So to watch this industry also take a really big hit was tough to my heart, but I looked back and went, gosh, I’m, I’m in a position where I have something that’s super fulfilling and I can, I can grow that’s mine that I, that can’t be taken away from me.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think that’s so true and there’s so much p pride and power in that isn’t there? I mean, to know you’re building something. I mean, I think of our advisors that, that work here, you know, almost 40 advisors and it’s like they work for themselves and, and, and, and nobody can take that away from ’em. The clients that they’ve built, the clients they have, there’s something about it, in my opinion, to when you go out and do something on your own and build something. I mean, it’s scary, don’t get me wrong. Right? And you earn every paycheck you’ve ever gotten. Um, but man, it, it’s so worth it in the long run.  Elle Scott: It really is. And I. Uh, I think a lot of people really struggled with the, you know, the pandemic and, and the shutdown. And of course in LA County where I was living at the time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Scott: Um, you know, obviously a newly, uh, Florida resident for obvious reasons, but it was really tough. But it, and a lot of people cursed it, it, it really hurt a lot of people, but it also helped a lot of people. I up and left LA County during the shutdown, grabbed an rv, remodeled it, and traveled around the country cuz I could. I was just, I, I, I couldn’t stay still. I 70% of my life was traveling. And so yeah, when everything shut down, I had a very emotional, emotionally hard time with that. I couldn’t see my clients. That was a big deal to be in front of people. So I just up and hightailed it out. Um, but it created a lot of opportunities for people to really look at what was important to them and step forward with that. So I think we see a lot of these wonderful companies and entrepreneurs be birthed outta that struggle, which, you know, if you read any of these books, you know, especially, uh, Think and Grow Rich and, and whatnot, some of the best, were birthed outta that failure or struggle.  Brett Gilliland: So when you, when you think of Think and Grow Rich, I just had oh, she wrote the book, uh, Mrs. Lechter with, uh, with, uh, the Rich Dad Poor Dad, couldn’t think of the name of it for a second. Yes, she was just on my, uh, podcast in. And so, uh, we talked about Think and Grow Rich. She works for the Napoleon Hill Institute. And did, did you ever, like I, when I was a young advisor in my twenties, I had these design statements we would call ’em, right, that came out of that book things I would say to myself, these, these kind of pep talks that, I mean, I still have them to an extent, you know, like carry in my journal. And so did you have that? Do you believe in that stuff? What’s your thought process there? Elle Scott: Uh, absolutely. Again, it goes back to, uh, you know, what are you, what are you telling yourself? , what are your beliefs? Right, thoughts become things. So for me, there were always, um, just one liners. Right. Like, um, nothing great leaves my life without something greater entering in after it or if this, if not this, then something better. And those were just my little things that I would, I would tell myself and just kinda walk in those. But it was constant, they were my statements to myself that, I’m good no matter what. So, yeah [inaudible] Brett Gilliland: I love that. It’s, so, I wanna talk now about, uh, pity parties. Okay. I, I call this bounce back theory, okay? And so the bounce back theory, whether you’re in sport, you’re in business, you’re at home, you’re at education. The most successful people at the top of their games, in my opinion, bounce back from defeat very quickly, right? You get bad news in a sales deal sucks, right? Emotionally it sucks. Maybe financially it sucks. But you bounce back, the best salespeople bounce back quickly. So when you hear me say the pity party or the bounce back theory, what’s your pity party look like? Elle Scott: Oh goodness. I’m not sure if I have one. Um, Brett Gilliland: okay. I love it.  Elle Scott: At least I, I will say that I’ve, um, I’ve experienced them quite a bit, maybe a long time ago though, but mostly in relationships. You know, I, I’ve been blessed with, like I said, that success mindset, but I didn’t have as strong as belief in creating my own own reality around relationships, uh, specifically romantic ones. So my pity parties probably happened then in that context. They were very short lived, but it would, um, It would never involve anything that would be detrimental to myself. I was never a self sabotager. I would never go just, you know, dive into the drinking or, or tell myself that I was, you know, bad. I think it was sometimes, Hey, you’re a little much, and you just maybe need to find someone who can deal with that level of energy and that level of, uh, drive. Um, so there’s not too many pity parties going on, thank goodness anymore.  Brett Gilliland: I love it. Elle Scott: Um, yeah.  Brett Gilliland: So what, uh, when you hear the word fear, I always ask this question of how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be? Elle Scott: Ooh, very little. Yeah. I think we have a great way of making things bigger than they really are. Right. Um, thank goodness they didn’t show up as, uh, as badly as sometimes I would. But, um, I think, uh, I think probably the most recent one was probably the, the leaving Amazon leaving the job is that fear of the unknown. Even though I can sit here and say I’m going to create a, a magnificent, uh, give back to the world and something that’s valuable. I, I kind of saw that being a little bit more of a struggle than it, than it really actually was, so Brett Gilliland: It’s amazing, isn’t it? The things that we can build up in our mind, just like one little, like thing can, and it can just blossom and blossom and blossom. And I think that, you know, it’s one thing I hope people take from this podcast, and for me, I get asked all the time, what’s, what’s been your biggest takeaway? You know, there. Actually this, uh, this weekend, this Sunday will be my sixth anniversary. And I’ve interviewed, I think you’re the 323rd person. And, and it’s amazing, right? What you learn out of almost 300 and something hours of interviews, which is a long time. Um, but h. I have learned that the, the, the most successful people, and everybody I’ve asked that question to, the fears don’t blow up to the magnitude. We put ’em in our minds to beat. Right? But we do that and I’ve done it a million times. And so I hope that people, whatever fears they’re having right now, they’re working out or they’re driving down the road, they can take those things and say, you know what, it is a fear, but I’m gonna choose not to listen to that fear, to this level today, and I’m gonna take one step closer, one, one action step to get closer to where I want to go. Right? That’s, that’s the biggest hope I have for people is to believe in themselves, believe big, and then go make things happen.  Elle Scott: Yes. You make a really good point, is I, I’ve learned something over the past few years that, uh, I found that. Those moments of trepidation or hesitation started to get a lot shorter because I had learned from, I believe it was, uh, one of the, uh, I think Abraham Hicks or Jerry and Esther Hicks, and some of the things they were saying is, stop the momentum of that thought. You know, give, if you go past 17 seconds of that thought, you then create another one that is akin to that thought, and then what happens after a minute is now you put it out into the universe and it’s on, it’s in creation mode now. Right. So do your best to tell yourself, I get 15 seconds to think about this thought. And this is how I do it now, is if I really wanna think something, you know, that’s not empowering, I give myself 15 seconds to have that pity party if you will, or that, you know, disempowering thought. And I don’t let it go beyond that because I realize that, that will create another one to harmonize with it. And then I only have a short amount of time before I actually put that out into the universe. So yeah, just stop the momentum, do anything to stop the momentum.  Brett Gilliland: That’s a really powerful saying. Just stop the momentum. Stop the momentum. I love that. Um, so when you see this, uh, this f greater than P sign in the back of my microphone here, that that’s our mission statement, right? And so that’s the future greater than your past. We help people achieve a future greater than your past and so, when you hear that, it doesn’t mean you had a bad past, but I would assume if I’m in a room and there’s a thousand people in there and I said, how many people in here wanna have a future greater than their past? I would assume most people would raise their hand. Right. So, um, when you hear that achieving a future greater than your past, what does that mean to you? Elle Scott: The first feeling or thought that comes to my head is massive impact. And I really, truly, Wake up every day wanting to make a positive impact in someone’s life and helping them to, you know, just empower them to go carry that on as well. I want to create a world of givers, givers of, you know, in value givers, not just someone who gives of themselves to a point where it’s self-proving or it hurts them, but true giving that helps other people to do the same thing and create that chain reaction. Right. Um, I would say that I would also, I’d also love to see, uh, this, you know, for me, continue on with this path. This has been something that I’ve loved since I was young. You know, iridology health and so forth. And in the past I doubted it. In the past I always, you know, went back to the things that were comfortable. Yeah. And I feel I’m beyond that where I, I’ve now opened up to the point I can’t ever go back cuz this is just too amazing what, what we’re doing. And I would, I would say that my past has always kind of had this bounce back to the safe. So the future is definitely a lot brighter than the past.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, well it’s, when I hear you say that, I think of, I call it the comfort zone callous, and, and I, I picture this little circle is your comfort zone. Right? And we keep buttoning up against it and, and we create this callous and we just can’t get through it, right? So we gotta figure out another route to go. And I think it’s, it’s easy for us to do that, isn’t it? To go back to what’s comfortable. Um, oh yeah. We have to get, we have to get comfortable being uncomfortable, in my opinion. And so that’s what it takes. You’re following your dreams right now, right? It may have been the scariest thing you ever did, but you’re following your dreams and that’s, that’s super impactful. Elle Scott: Yeah, and I definitely want to, uh, in some way, you know, I obviously don’t know everything. There are people who have far more success and have done this for much longer than I have, but if I can inspire someone to just rip that bandaid off and do it, Then I’ve, then I’m, I’m fulfilled. I love… Brett Gilliland: I love it.  Elle Scott: …I love just being able to inspire. Brett Gilliland: So I’m assuming you got a cell phone pretty close to you there, and, and if I were to steal that cell phone from you, what are the, besides email, because you gotta have email for work and all that stuff, but if I stole it from you, what’s the one thing that you hope I don’t take and delete off of your cell phone forever? Elle Scott: Wow, that is a really cool question and not where I thought you were going with this. Um, what’s the one thing I wish you wouldn’t delete? Brett Gilliland: And we can go too. I wanna know, I’d be curious on where you thought I was going with it. And we can go there a second, but after,  Elle Scott: Oh, I thought you were gonna say, if I were to look at, you know, other than email and stuff like that, like go to my Instagram, like what do I search and see a bunch of watches and classic cars, really. Brett Gilliland: Exactly. It’s amazing how that stuff just keeps showing up, isn’t it? I’m like, my goodness.  Elle Scott: Oh yeah.  Brett Gilliland: They know exactly what you’re looking at.  Elle Scott: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, given we’re in the world where everything backs up, but I would say, um, uh, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t delete the, uh, the text messages from my family. Like, let’s just say if those weren’t backed up, those, those text messages and, and my friends and just those, those are oftentimes the things that I look back on and, and realize and, and I say this, some of those text messages are really painful. Some of those text messages are also super positive, but that’s what’s gotten me to where I am today. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. What would you say, there’s any apps or anything you use, obviously there’s all the social media stuff and you can grow a business that way, but , any, any apps that you use that are, that are really helpful for you to be productive?  Elle Scott: Oh, great question. Um, I, I love, um, there’s a few, so I love GoodNotes. It’s, it’s just where I dump all my thoughts. Um, I’m not a big writer. I’m a big audible person, so I will just voice notes into that. Um, and, you know, kinda like an Evernote, uh, is one of those, um, I also, gosh, there’s so many, you almost forget which ones you use on a daily basis. I know, right? Um, my , my White Noise app. I am one of those people that cannot sleep without it. Like, thank God they made this app because I, I have gone to different countries and they didn’t have fans and I, I think I just stayed awake for four days straight because of that.  Brett Gilliland: Well, what’s funny cause I have a really bad, I have a bad experience with that. My buddy Chris, I, when when you show up to your guys’ golf trip with 20 guys and you’re one of the last people there, you get like the worst room and you have to share a room. Right? And, and my buddy had, he had a white noise thing that was so freaking loud. I couldn’t even sleep a couple nights. And finally one night I got up and I’m like, I’m turning this damn thing off. And so I, I turned it off and, you know, I tried to fall asleep and all of a sudden he cranks it back up. I’m like, yeah, gah lee so I told him, I never want to hear white noises the rest of my life. Uh, that’s all I I was, I’ll throw out one I thought, the reason I asked that I, I love these, but I heard of, uh, I just got Basmo, B A S M O. I’m a big reader and it tracks you like kind of hit start when you read and then it tracks. And then when you’re done, you obviously hit done and what page you’re on. And it tells you like it, you know, at this level of speed of, uh, of reading. This is when you’ll finish that book. But you take pictures and you can audio the stuff you’re learning from the book and it keeps it all compiled in one spot. So now throughout the year, I can go back to those books anywhere I’m at and look at the highlights. My notes, my thoughts, all this stuff. Cuz you know, something triggers you in a book, right? And it’s like, oh, I need to do this, this, this, and this in my world, based on what I read in that book. So for me, I’ll just share that to our listeners or share that to you. I thought it was really, really good and it’s very helpful if you’re a reader.  Elle Scott: Oh, absolutely. I’m gonna download that. And you said it was Ba… Basmo? Brett Gilliland: Basmo. B A S M O. Yes.  Elle Scott: Okay. I’m gonna take a look back.  Brett Gilliland: Well, this been awesome, Elle, where can our listeners find more of Elle Scott? Elle Scott: Sure. So, uh, social media is, is obviously a great place. Um, I’m more active on Instagram, uh, and my handle is, uh, @showmeyourset and also showmeyourset.com. And that’s, that’s probably the best way to, uh, to get ahold of me.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, I hope people will take, uh, the, uh, the, the advantage of taking the picture, sending it in, and let’s learn something cuz I, I even saw in my research that they can, you could diagnose like lower back pain and kidney type stuff from looking at the eyeball.  Elle Scott: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: If I read it correctly, your ego is in your eye. I mean, that’s amazing.  Elle Scott: Yep. It’s, you know, the one thing I always tell people is, uh, you know that you use the word diagnose and we as iridologists say, you know, can’t diagnose, but you know, cause you get on the medical terms. Brett Gilliland: Sure.  Elle Scott: But you absolutely can see all of this. I mean, if you can think of a symptom, you can think of something, uh, you know, a dis-ease. We can look and see the root cause of that in the eye. And we, and everything we see is repairable. Unless you are missing an organ that has been removed, I obviously can’t stick that back in your body. But pretty much everything is, is addressable and repairable. And it’s pretty powerful.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s amazing. Well, we’ll put all that stuff in the, uh, show notes. Elle an, it’s been so awesome having you on The Circuit of Success. Thanks for being with me. Elle Scott: Oh, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much. And thanks to your listeners. 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Dr. Bhrett McCabe, the founder of The MindSide, explains that success comes from embracing your challenges and learning from them to develop an emotionally disciplined mentality. Dr. McCabe discusses developing an organized mind and encourages you to pinpoint who you are and what you want to achieve. Relate to his work with world-class athletes to create goals for your game of life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Klwoah1A0&list=PLbvB0kVmlTP7mo99UtYan6rAaz5uNOzyN&index=1 Bhrett McCabe Brett Gilliland: All right, we’re live here. It says, okay, we’re recording. Awesome, man. Well, any, okay, I’ll get started here and we’ll get rocking. Um, all right. Uh,  Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I’ve got another Bhrett with me, Bhrett McCabe. Dr. Brett McCabe. How you doing, Brett?  Bhrett McCabe: Great. Thanks for having me.  Brett Gilliland: Hey, it’s awesome to be with you, man. We, uh, were talking, before we started recording, we got a mutual friend that we didn’t know we had a mutual friend, uh, Greg Larkin, Titleist rep down there in Birmingham, used to be here in the Edwardsville Fallon area. So you tell, uh, you tell Greg Larkin, I said, hello. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Oh, will and he to drop off some more golf balls for me on occasion.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, he is. Uh, are they allocated down there for you guys too? It’s funny, our country club, they’re allocated, man. It’s like bourbon. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. Not only allocated, I mean, they’re allocated like bourbon is, so just gotta fight like hell to find him.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s crazy, absolutely crazy. So, well good, man. I just wanted to, uh, you know, let our listeners learn more about you. I always like to start with kinda what’s made you the man you are today. I know that’s a big question and, and a really open wide question, but just wanna start with that, of what’s made you the man you are today? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Uh, you know, I was very fortunate to be raised in a great family. My dad was military and my mom and, and uh, um, my dad was, was an only child. And, you know, there was a lot of organizational structure there. There was driven, if you set your mind to it, you go, well, you don’t stop halfway. Um, his dad was a, had a third grade education, was a carpenter, and both of his sons, um, my, my grandmother was German. They were a little older when they had kids way back when. Um, both of their sons are retired military. Um, my dad was a pharmacist with a degree in chemistry. My uncle has a couple MIT master’s degrees, uh, in chemical engineer, uh, civil and um, and, uh, mechanical engineering. So very, very smart in the Navy. Um, and so it was a culture that was driven. And then my mom was very much into that as well, which was, you know, if you’re gonna do something, you go all the way. You, you don’t, you don’t wait for other people to approve what you’re doing, and you don’t wait for other people to congratulate you on the back. You set your mind towards something and you work your tail off and yeah, you learn and grow and learn from people around you. And, uh, that’s what, that’s what I did. And so that was the culture. It’s like if you’re gonna do something, you win and you win the right way. You do things the right way. Um, and you don’t make excuses because nobody cares. Nobody cares . And then the other thing too is my dad also also taught me, he, you know, in the military, what he did, he did a lot of work with people who did really cool stuff like, and he did a lot of really cool stuff, right. And it’s just the military way is important stuff. And uh, he’s like, you gotta learn to stand in the shadows. There are too many people in my field and coaching and whatever, who, when a client has success, they find the camera, the spotlight. They take pictures of themselves celebrating it because it’s not about the player or the client, it’s about them to show the world Yeah. What they do and how to cross market that. And my dad was always like, you know, the work that we did, you were gone before the press conference ever started and we were already onto the next thing. Nobody cares, that’s your job. Do your job. And so his thing was, you stand in the shadow. So I think that was a culture that served me for my clients. Like, um, I work with some of the best players in the world in golf, um, and I work with the best athletic department in the country when it comes to college sports. And it’s, uh, it’s not, I, I hope, I hope I’ve never had to look at a player and say, A player said, ‘Why’d you make it about you?’  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. That’s amazing. And it is, it’s, it is cool. Cause I, I actually was introduced to you by a coach, um, a buddy of mine as a division one basketball coach, and, and he said, man, you gotta follow this guy. And so I started following you and listening to your stuff. And, uh, but it is cool because I watch golf all the time and, and you are working with some of the biggest players in the game. But yet to your point, you, you, I would never have known that. Right. I never would’ve known that. And I think that’s really… Dr. Bhrett McCabe: That’s the greatest complement you could give me  Brett Gilliland: …Really cool so, yeah. Yeah. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You know, it, it’s, I, I think. You know, I want a player who calls me because they want me to work with them, not because I’m gonna use it to market to a company or a, an association. Like if, if, if a business wants me to come, they know I’ll work. I’m the psychologist for Alabama. Right? Yeah. Okay. You know how many people come through the University of Alabama and put their, try to put their stamp on it and then use it to market? I’ve, I’ve been sitting in workshops and seeing people say, well, when I was this, and I was, I’m like, you’ve never been there. Like, literally, I learned that very early on. What, what got me was about 15 years ago, I was sitting in a Barnes and Noble and I opened up a book in golf, golf psychology, and two mental coaches had written a book, and both of them had the same elite player write a prologue, and the prologue was identical. I literally couldn’t believe it.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: I want my players to know that, hey, if I need something, he’s gonna answer the phone, and it’s genuine and authentic. Yeah. And they pay me well, I don’t, I mean, it’s an exchange of services, right? The services are, is what we do, and I want somebody to know that I’m there for ’em, for their, for the reason they hired me. Um, in, in the social media world and everything we do right, is, you know, people will post a picture outside the building. And, and I, I remember watching a, a guy years ago who did this. It was like the, a draft was going on a major league baseball draft. And he kept posting my guy, my guy, my guy. And I remember another middle coach said, I’ve been working with that kid for six years. And he said, it’s his guy. The kid was in a workshop one time. One time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And, and so I just, integrity means the world to me, and we’re all competing. But the ultimate value is when a player tells you, ‘thank you’, and you know, it is genuine and, I- that, so when you say that, that is the greatest thing to me, that it means that I’m doing it the right way, which I want my content to be currency. I don’t want my connections to be currency.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And wouldn’t you probably, I mean, I assume you agree and so, and I didn’t say this earlier, but you are a clinical and sports psychologist. You’re the, uh, the founder of The Mind Side, PhD from LSU. You played baseball at LSU, win two national championships, uh, obviously working with Alabama and, and other, you know, sports guys that I won’t name. Um, but you know, the P G A L P G a, major League baseball, I mean all these places, right? Phenomenal stuff.  But I do genuinely believe and feel that, that you are the guy you say you are, which is really, really cool. But would you also not agree that those guys probably refer you to the next guy, right, because of that and who you are? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, that’s, and that the ultimate sign of respect, right? When somebody says, like, my financial guy is that way, Yeah, my financial guy is a list of clients that I know because I, how I got to him was because of that. And the financial guys and, and this guy is very well respected among professional athletes and it’s never about him. And it’s, you walk in his room, there’s not one picture of one of his athletes, not one. There’s a picture with him, with the president of the United States. And because he is like, that’s always a great honor. There’s a picture with him and his parents and his kids and his thing was, my credential should be on somebody giving me a recommendation. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: When somebody says, this is where I want you to go. And, and that’s what I want. And, and you know, I have a, a player, one of my tour players and, and he said this to people, say, well, what do you and Bhrett work on? He’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know, but I know that when we work on a much better head space. And I said, that’s a great compliment because I’m not giving you, here are the six hottest things to work on in the mental game. I, my whole philosophy is built upon the psychological fingerprint of the person I’m dealing with. You and I are, we have the same name. We’re completely different. Okay. Mom was a twin sister, but, and an identical twin couldn’t tell ’em apart until they were in their twenties. And they were different. They had different backgrounds, meaning my mom was the older, her sister was the younger. There’s a dynamic shift, right? And so we have to understand the people we work with, and it takes a lot of vulnerability people to open up. One of the things I hear a lot from coaches is like, well, did the player tell you this? They tell you that like, for the 45 minutes, I see him once a week. No, they didn’t. Yeah, you’re gonna see him in a different spot. And so I use the team approach a lot, and that’s why, I mean, I never want to be the person who, like I’m the reason they succeeded or anything like that, like that, that’s just not how it works. And, and I think maybe that comes from me, I played too, where it’s like, I don’t want that. Like, I want the player to celebrate that I will share their pain to some degree. I can’t share all their pain. But when it comes time for their success, I don’t want them to celebrate that. And because they’re the ones that have made those sacrifice. And so I think that just, I think it’s something we gonna learn. I mean, look, we’re in a very self promotional world and , the self promotion world’s important. We have to do that. If your content is good, self promote that. Promote the hell outta that. If you can make a difference in somebody’s life, promote the living hell of that because people need content. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, um, So what, what do you find that, that, let’s talk about that PGA golfer, for example, or the business person that’s listening to this right now. Obviously I’m not on the, you know, trying to make a birdie putt for, you know, a couple million bucks or something like that. I wish I was, but I’m not. Um, but what, what can you take from the golf course to the boardroom that things that we need to be focusing on? Like what, what is that mental mindset that we need to have, and hence the name of your company, The Mind Side. Like what do we need to be doing to be at our optimal performance on the mental side?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, I think we have to know who we are, right? And, and a lot of times we, we listen to what other people tell us to do, but those people don’t really know the business. I have a good friend of mine who’s a CEO of a massive, massive billion dollar company. He’s like, I run a benevolent dictatorship. I make the decisions. I want to hear what you have to say, but I’m not gonna say I’m gonna do it because you don’t have all the information I have. Yeah. And you have to do your job. And I think as a coach, as a leader, and anything that we’re doing competitively is we have to match to who we are. Too many people are trying to change us. Too many people are telling us this is the 14 ways of being successful and happy. Like I always look at books like, here’s the how to be happy. And I’m like, but what makes people happy is different for everybody. Brett Gilliland: Right.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You know, my mother-in-law, her happiness is having people at the house sitting around talking. Um, my happiness is knowing that everybody’s happy and in a good spot and a good meal and go to golf, right? Um, so I think where we get in trouble is when we try to do what everyone else is telling us to do. And that is, uh, that’s the scary thing. And so I think if we know what we’re doing and we establish a plan and we execute that plan, okay, that plan is to have challenges, barriers, and stressors all along the way. But we, we are flexible to what we’re doing, and we understand that increasing pressure brings more consequences, more consequences than natural inclinations. We wanna over control. So if we can turn that to being like, here’s the way that I get better and here are the decisions I’m gonna make and not reactionary, we can be successful.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: So I’m big on mission statements and goals because I find that we spend a lot of time setting mission statements and goals. I want every leader, every person to have an understanding of what their philosophy is. So if you’re in the financial services business, you know, I mean, I think you should have a philosophy of how do you find customers? How do you meet with, what’s your strategies? How do you, what’s the market like? I mean, you know, if you’re not a bonds person, don’t be a bonds person. Like Chick-fil-A only kills chicken. Like it’s okay. Like be who you are and rock it.  Brett Gilliland: And only six days a week at that.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And they don’t apologize for it, do they?  Brett Gilliland: Nope.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Nope. Don’t apologize for it.  Brett Gilliland: I do want it more on Sundays it seems though.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You do, and and other alternatives aren’t as good and… Brett Gilliland: No.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: …um, and, and, but they have a culture, right? And they have a culture that everybody buys in. And there’s a vision that people understand. As a leader, you have to paint the picture of what you’re trying to accomplish. And as a coach, I, I think coaches need to, if you’re coaching major sports, right, you should have a PR agency with you to help paint the picture. They’re specialists at it. Well, if same in business, right? Where are we gonna be in a year? But guess what? We have to let people know that their struggling is coming too. I think a lot of times in leadership, we want people to buy in so bad that we paint the rosy-est picture possible. And the first time we get in that scenario, we can’t handle it. The pilots that we get on, on the airplanes, they can crash land. They know how to do that. I hope they’ve never had to do it. I hope they don’t have to do it today, but they know how. Right. And they’re gonna tell you the turbulence in the air and we’re gonna do our best to make it a comfortable flight. But I’ve got us. is what they’re saying by saying that. And so I think, you know, we, we look at athletes and they’re driven, right? We assume that, you know, we watch a video of a hype person hyping us up. It’s not reality. Reality is it’s gonna be hard. And when it’s hard, who are you going to rely on? And we’re not gonna react, we’re gonna respond. We’re gonna, we’re not gonna prevent failures. We’re gonna embrace ’em. I always tell my athletes that there’s three types of animals, right? They’re, they’re critters that we see. You know, you got the possums, it’s an ugly looking thing under pressure, it plays dead. It has no defense. Which is funny because if you’ve seen a possum, they have ugly teeth and the hiss, and you would think that it could do some damage, but it plays dead. You have an armadillo that looks like a badass, right? That thing looks like a bad dude. But the minute stress hits, it balls up in its defenses, and then you have a lion. And the lion that sits on top of that rock is the one with the most scars because it’s earned the right to sit up there and it has no defenses. Yeah, I mean, the mane is just demonstrating, the tail and all right, but it sits up there because it believes in who they are. But they have scars. They fought their way to the top. Okay? And we have to understand that success is not about seeing stress as a reflection of something wrong. Stress fears in security helps. Those are reminders to, to be in a scenario where, um, we have improved our skillsets by the trials and tribulations we’ve been in because we’ve taken an accurate look at what we do. You know, teams lose and fans freak out and they’re like, oh my God, the future Great. Coaches look at it and say, okay, you know, there’s four outcomes to it. We played well in one. We played well in Lost, we played poorly in one, and we played poorly in lost. All we can do is, is focus on the way that we play, but we have to learn. We can’t control the outcome, but we can learn how to improve what we’re doing. And so accurate reflection is like, Hey, where are, what are we doing? What are the decisions we’re making? What are the, that’s what we do in sport, right? I would say too, that great leaders of boardroom need to be planned. Like when I did corporate work for eight years, I was always amazed and I had a great manager, but I’d always be amazed and I’d go cross over to other managers for a period of time and, and you know, the meeting was start, they’d hand out the agenda and I’m like, that’s worthless.  You’re handing me the agenda starting sent to me 24 hours ago so I could be prepared because the first five to 10 minutes I’m doing everything I can to make sure that I’m not on that agenda and I’m prepared. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, and so the, the, the hence you don’t need to be a morning person. You don’t need to be an evening person. You just need to be you. We all have different bio rhythms and so some people are late night people. Like, that’s fine. Some people are early morning people. That’s wonderful. Be who you are. and you know, like, I like to write by going to a coffee shop and putting headphones in and listening to Guns N Roses, Nirvana, Eric Church, um, you know, stuff like that, right? Yeah. You know, Tom Petty love, Tom Petty. Okay. I can’t sit and quiet to write. Other people need peace and quiet and I write in verse. But it takes me a long time to write a book because I’m gonna analyze it, look at it, because it’s an enduring document. And, but that’s me. Like, I can’t write a book that goes out in six months. People have to understand who they are and what they want, and then you build the plans to get there. Um, I am not very detail oriented when it comes to business practices. I want to go like, let’s go, let’s get on top of it. Now when it comes to writing and stuff like that, I’m much more, um, detail focused. And when it comes to like running teams, I am, but when it comes to going to get business and all the other stuff, I’m not gonna write a business plan. The amount of time it takes me to write a business plan, I can go get the business. Right? Right. But I need help on the back end. I don’t do a good job of bringing people into the gate and I’m on the supp in the billing. My wife handles all that cuz she’s a genius when it comes to that stuff. Gotta know who you are.  Brett Gilliland: Know the lane you wanna play in. Right? And so when, when you’re talking to your players, your clients, and, and I, again, I would look at this for me, talking to my wealth management clients or, uh, somebody in sales talking to their client, how much time are you spending talking versus asking great questions? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Um, well that’s, so, um, it’s a, it’s a great question because I’m a very active coach when it comes to coaching in the performance. Um, I, I use the example, and this sounds really bad to say this, but it’s like if I went to my doctor and I said, Hey, I got some sinus congestion. And I feel like I’m running a low grade temperature. He doesn’t need to do a comprehensive, uh, review of systems to know that that’s the standard that’s coming in, right? Yeah. And so he gonna gimme an antibiotic, probably gimme a shot to clear it up or whatever. Like he sees 15 of them a day. The, the patterns of struggle are so consistent with those people. The difference is, is that you don’t see what other people struggle with. You never ask a psychologist, oh my God, I pro you’ve probably never heard this before. Trust me… Brett Gilliland: I’ve heard it all.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: …heard it. Don’t care either. And what I mean by that is I don’t hold that and carry it and go, ah, Bhrett, I mean this is it. I mean, like you, you learn very quickly to to, to do the, the I switch like boom, gone like the men in Black Marie. Yeah. So I hold on to that and remember that. But I do see consistencies. Now that being said, the pathway by which we get there to help it is based on a, a like what I call a, what we call in science. But I applied as a bio psychosocial approach. You have biological things that you do in your game in sport and life that well you are, you know, if you were in the military for 20 years and my dad was, I can guarantee you, you will wake up before your alarm goes off at five o’clock in the morning. I’ve, I’ve met very few career military people who still don’t get up early. It’s just they don’t need an alarm.  Brett Gilliland: It’s in their DNA. Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: DNA. Um, if, if I’m working with a person who, both parents are engineers, more than likely their DNA is gonna have a problem solving style that is unique to that family. So I’m gonna go through the biological understandings of who they are. I’m gonna go through their psychological understandings. What are their motivations? What are their beliefs? What are their barriers? What are their fears, their insecurities? What are their underlying belief systems that may be need to be challenged? And I’m collecting that over time. Um, and then how do they socially interact with people? Who do they value? Who do they trust? Are they coachable? Um, this is any client I work with, whether it’s business or life, and I’m building a model in my mind. Uh, what we call in psychology of formulation, we’re like, it’s no different than when you’re looking at somebody’s wealth portfolio. You’re looking at risks, barriers, you know, you’re looking at things that are important. Like, you know, I tell my financial guide, like, I need short-term motivators. I need to know that I’m going on a trip soon. because I will, I will pay for that in short order. Like I gotta have some, I gotta have a carrot. Yeah. Putting money away doesn’t get me excited. Like, I’ve gotta have some guy enjoy it. He’s like, absolutely. Like, and so you know it, it’s knowing those bases that’s critical to understand how’s the formula that we’re gonna impart, the dangers that they wanna make. So players come in, they usually come me, cuz there’s an issue at hand. Very rarely does a player come to me and say, I am on top of the world and I want some help. And I’m like, what do you want? I don’t know, I just need to put somebody on my team. I’m like, are you sure that’s what you want do? Is that what you wanna do? Is that what people are telling you what you wanna do? And once you understand what they want and you can kind of knock away the layers, then you can get to what the core of the issue that they want help on. And then after that, I’m just pumping them. And so I’ll touch base with players and say, how we doing? Good. Damn. Real good. All right, good. What did we learn? What did we experience? And I’m just trying to guide ’em and, and you know, players come in and they leave you after a while and then they’re back and that’s part of it. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah, that’s, uh, it’s, it’s fascinating to me because I also wonder, they don’t know what they don’t know, right? They don’t have your brain, they don’t have your ex experience, they don’t have your wisdom and knowledge. And so, you know, if I’m a guy again in the boardroom or walking down the 18th hole and I gotta get my mind right, I mean, how much of it is coaching to the point of, all right man, listen, you need to learn to breathe, you need to learn to execute. And like, these are the five things, whatever it is, right? These are the things that you need to do. I mean, I’m assuming there’s a lot of telling still. Is that correct? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, yeah, you know it, it’s interesting, right? Because, so I’ve got one player on tour who’s very emotional. I’ve got a couple on tour that are very emotional. And everyone’s like, you gotta change. I’m like, why would I change ’em? Greatest player we ever have. Tiger Woods is emotional. Like, why would, I mean, you know, uh, if, if you’re, you know, what, what is it that you can do in that moment? And you know, what is what, what makes you tick? Right? When, when it’s when mind is racing under pressure. Because as we go up higher at the mountain of success, the mind gets more and more cluttered and flustered. And confidence is minimal. Where are you gonna go? Where are you gonna anchor? And if you’re really sitting there trying to think of 14 things, we’re in trouble. Yeah, okay. We’ve gotta get, it’s like, you know, you’ve gotta make a, you gotta make a putt on the 18th hole to break 80 or shoot under par or whatever. It’s for the average golfer. And we assume that PJ Tour players never missed those? Well, the, the stats on tour, uh, eight footer is a 50 50 make rate.  Brett Gilliland: Wow, okay. Makes me feel better.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. PJ Tourer players make 80% of their money in five events a year. It’s the 80 20 rule. Okay. We think they’re great every week. There are weeks that Patrick Cantley’s in the field that people don’t even know because he didn’t make the cut. Now, he may have been working on something like, I don’t like players when they make, when they play their first event of the year to have any expectations because they’ve done all this work, but then they go out in the competitive environment, competition, not famous training, and in golf, true business, sports, everything. We practice all day long giving a talk. I put you up on stage with somebody. It gets real now. Yeah. All right. It, it, it, you can’t mimic it. Golf makes it even harder because there’s absolutely nothing we can do to mimic it. If you and I are playing a match and we’re gonna say, Hey, this is gonna be, this is gonna be the same as what we’re doing next week. No, it’s not. No, it’s not. Not even close. Like, you know, and so I’m, I’m gonna use this example and anybody, I’m not trying to offend anybody when I say this cuz I, I’ve never been there, but it would be the equivalent of training somebody for war. Hey, we’re gonna play with rubber bullets and at the end of the day, I know I’m going home. Brett Gilliland: Right. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: If I, we go overseas and we’re in a competitive environment. Like I had a buddy of mine who was a Navy Seal and his first deployment, they didn’t tell him that they, um, when they landed in, I think in I in Iraq is where he went. That they do a combat landing, which is essentially a controlled dive. And then they land real quick. He thought they were under attack, and so when they landed, the older guy said, Hey, we’re gonna go get all this other stuff. Y’all established the base, like whatever he said, me and the other new guy established and we’re in complete combat pose, look, cuz we thought the wire was the fence that we were seeing. He goes, we were in the middle of the base. The guys come back and they are laughing their tails off because they’re like, what are you doing? And he goes, we didn’t know where we were. We thought we were in the middle of a combat zone. That’s the wire, that’s the fence that protects the runway. That’s how it changes things. Brett Gilliland: It gets real. It gets real, real fast, doesn’t it? What, what are the things that you, you personally do? Like if I followed you around with a camera, what am I finding the no miss items that, that you’re doing daily, day in and day out.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You’re not, you’re gonna be very underwhelmed by what I do. Seriously. Like you’re gonna think that’s all you do. My wife says you’re just full of crap. I mean, you just make up things and go, it’s not true. I’m gonna, let’s say if I go walk nine holes with a player on tour, on a practice round, like I’ll be at Scottsdale next week, we’re gonna go out and I’ll walk turtles. What am I gonna tell them? Like, what am I gonna tell? I’ve never played on a PJ Tour event, right? Right. What am I gonna tell them? What I’m gonna do is say, tell me what your experience and feeling. How’s the communication with you and caddy? And probably in that nine hole walk, there might be a hole or two that I’m really working, like I’m grinding something. Now, if they have their swing coach, they’re gonna probably be more involved in that and whatever. And I’m gonna be, I kind of look at myself as the sharpener of the sword. I’m gonna come in at the very end, once they get it and they understand how to use it, now my job is to get ’em in that spot before they tee off in a competitive round. I just stand there, talk to ’em, whatever, like, what am I gonna do? Giving some new information. Like, hey, right. Breathe through your eyelids now that’s hype up. Let’s get hype, man. Let’s go, let’s let’s eat steel. They’re gonna be look at me and go like, you weren’t here last week when I came in fifth. Right? Um, and so my thing is, and, and it comes from my coaching college, he was always like, if you’re not there every week, don’t, don’t act, don’t make it about you. So there’s another person that reinforces my approach, right? Um, he’s like, if, if the catcher runs out to talk to the pitcher before the game and does it at a big game, why didn’t we do it against the midweek game last week? Like, oh, because it got harder. So when I’m there, I’m, I’m kind of pulling back and I’m just kind of tapping and moving. Like my, my sessions with like the college athletes, maybe 20 to 20 minutes max. Once I’ve established a relationship with them, they come in and like, Hey, this is what I’m going through. All right. What can I do to help you? Good? Yep. Got it. What we need.  Brett Gilliland: Hmm. Next .  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: I mean, and, and the reason for that is they’ve got so many things. There’s a brilliant video I use all the time, and it’s a video from Smarter Every Day, which is a v uh, vlog cast. The guy who used to work for NASA, he’s an engineer. And then he started vlogging. And it’s so good. So good. And NASA and the Navy Smarter Every Day. Brilliant. I mean, you’ll go down dark holes. It’s such a brilliant education. Like the one that he did on the nuclear submarine underneath the ice pack where he was embedded with him was absolutely must watch television. And I’m a little bit of a nerd when it comes to stuff like this, but there’s, he has, where he goes to the marine based training in Hawaii where they’re training how to successfully survive a helicopter crash underwater. Right. And it’s such an example for what athletes are going through, right? They’re getting flooded with information. So I don’t know about you, but if, if I’m on a Chinook or whatever those are that you sit on the site and it’s going underwater, I’m gonna try to get outta that thing as absolute fast as I can. Yep. And they’re like the worst thing that you can do because you, you’re upside down, you lose orientation, you’re in the dark, the water’s coming in, it’s filling up your sinuses and you, you’re lost in ground. They teach ’em to hold onto their seat and they call it the rodeo grip and to hold on. And then find the oxygen. Take the oxygen, stay in your seat because it’s an orientation place. I use that all the time for my athletes. Like when you’re in that moment, chaos is happening all around you, you and I, you know, you go into a big meeting, you, you get a call in wealth management to go in. Somebody you’ve been waiting for for a year, you’ve been working at your work. You finally get that meeting and it’s like, I wanna do everything I have. Okay, go out. Right? You’ve got to know, you’ve gotta have a system. And so what’s your anchor? What’s your process like? I’m gonna take notes. I’m gonna ask these six. These are my go-to questions for tour players. It’s like, Hey look, we’re gonna use a little bit of a trigger. We’re gonna pull on the glove as a reminder. We’re in this moment. We’re not gonna be in a hurry to screw up , we’re going go through our process. We’re gonna verbalize the shot we want to hit and we’re gonna compete. All right, so what you have to do, that’s a lot of what’s teaching him is like, Hey, look what we’re going through this process is chaos wants you to go faster once you hurry up and get out of the trouble. And competition’s chaos.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And then it is so different than what the mine would think. Right. I mean the, especially the, the rodeo hold, I mean that is completely backwards to what we would think, but when you say it the way you said it, it’s so damn true. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. Think about, yeah, like let’s, let’s do college football for a minute. Teams are watching college football team and they got a young quarterback and they’re like, God, this guy sucks. He can’t throw, I mean, whatever. And the coach goes up on the press conference and is talking, Yeah, it’s our best option. And you know, player coaches get upset. Like being an LSU alum, we had this report from less miles for like six years. Yeah. And then they would the ball eight times and it looked like a fifth grade education, you know, fifth grade, middle school football game. Okay. They all offensive structures. But the point was he never prepared his kids to transfer from competition, from practice competition. They never built things in there that were anchoring them for their confidence to grow. You watch Brilliant Play callers, they build and they structure and they ladder up over time. Great offensive coordinators script the first 10 to 12 play calls of a quarter or a half. They’re doing that because they’re working in systems. Fans are like, oh my God, there’s the post is wide open. It’s like that guy coming outta the gate, unless he’s played a lot, he doesn’t have that. He does have the ability, but he doesn’t have the application. We gotta help him get there. And, and so great leaders and coaches can educate on that to the team. Like, this is how we’re gonna build somebody into that process. But that’s like chaos, right? It’s like nobody wins a major unless they’ve been up near the lead a lot in majors. I mean, really if you look back, I mean everyone, somebody slips through the talent gap is so small on the PGA tour right now, right? Um, in the power five schools, in the top 15 schools of college football, the talent gap is so tight that it’s the separators that matter. It’s not hype, it’s understanding. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So let’s go back to that when you talked about the pulling on the glove and, and that, I’m fascinated by that type of stuff. So like, Walk us through that. So I, I’m a player on tour. I’m, I’m trying to get my game face on and maybe I’ve, you know, just made boogie, like, what is that process like? And, and how do we then snap into like, okay, I even, one, I gotta remember that I gotta pull the glove, right? But h how do I do that? What’s that process like to get me there?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, I, I think you, you’ve gotta understand that when you’re out in the competitive environment, I’m gonna try to give ’em wanting to focus on, that’s it. Okay. One thing when we got (inaudible) they got so many other thoughts going in. I mean, we can’t even remember what our friends order is when they go to Starbucks, right? And especially when it’s four, four squirts and a pump and a extra . Just, okay, give it to me. Brett Gilliland: Just get a coffee.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Like, come on, just buy coffee. I’ll get you the stuff on the side. Um, so, you know, in those environments, we’ll, we’ll have a little bit of a review. And the PJ tour, they have a caddy, and their caddy has to be, that’s their co-pilot. That’s their navigator. And they’re the ones that have to be good. Now, what happens is a lot of times when approach are high, everybody gets quiet and, and you can watch this, you can see the ca and they get quiet. They, they don’t know what to say because let’s be honest, being a caddy is a brutally difficult job. They gotta know what to say at the right time and not have any negative implications of it. I mean, that’s the honest to God truth. Brett Gilliland: Right? And challenge somebody knowing your job, that they’re, they’re your boss, right? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Draw the line, man. At that point, I’m gonna challenge ’em. This is gonna do it. But I, I try to tell ’em that like, this is when you have mistakes. This is how mistakes compound. It’s not the actual experience of a mistake. That’s a problem. Like if you’re gonna play, you’re gonna hit bad shots. You’re gonna fumble, you’re gonna have turbulence. What happens when turbulence happens? And so, you know, we look at statistics and we understand, and then we, you know, the player may not realize that in the moment the caddy can, and the caddy will take notes. And so, you know, we’re looking at scenarios. I, I want them to be the best reporter of their experiences so that we can learn from em’. Wisdom is the greatest educator we have. Experience is the greatest educator we have at creates wisdom. It’s best because the wisest people, like if you were to go into a business conference, people are gonna want to go see Warren Buffet. And it’s because he’s had, he’s seen things, he’s been there. Is he always right? No. Now he has better margins to fail. But the, the fact is, we like, now here’s the mistake, right? The 21 year old kid that’s coming outta school is wrong. He might not be, but if you’re gonna fly or have a surgeon, do you, I mean, You know, surgeons are trained in residency to go through a whole lot of things. I mean, they’re doing thousands, thousands of hours, but they’re still somebody who’s proficient, who’s older, who’s seen this. It’s like, I’ve seen this complication 10 times. It’s like, I got it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Again, in real world experience too, so, so how do we manage in today’s crazy world of nonstop notifications and bad news and this and that? I mean, how do we manage fear and anxiety in today’s world?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, I think, let’s go back to the organizational aspect of stuff. First of all, we have to have an organized mind in order to compete, and that allows us to be emotionally disciplined, okay? When we’re emotionally disciplined, not reactionary to everything that’s happening. When we’re undisciplined, our emotions guide us to our next, uh, behavior. So feelings, thoughts, feelings, actions are all interconnected, right? Um, actions very rarely happen in a vacuum, and thoughts and feelings very happen. I mean, they happen. Now, I want people to understand that thought is not nothing more than the brain’s way of processing information and identifying threat, okay? So negative thoughts are, they’re not predicting anything. They’re just saying there could be a trouble on the horizon. That’s all. But what happens is, is that if we don’t have an organized mind and we experience a negative thought, a fear of doubt, whatever we experience trouble, then what happens is we emotionally, we’re undisciplined and it leads us to look for validation, prove trust, all those things, right? And then those just cascade, and our behaviors follow, which are usually re protective, restrictive. And we’re trying to, you know, hold, serve a little bit. If we’re organized every day in the way we do things. And I think that we should do five things every day. We should do administrative tasks, which are things that are between now and the next three to four weeks. I think we need to do developmental tasks, tasks, which are things for the next three weeks to three months, six months out, some planning. We need to do some training every day. Content development, read book, you know, read. I don’t want you to send a picture of all the books you’ve read. I want to show, I want you to show me a book that changed your life. Right. That impacted you. Like, I, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t want people to read books just to say they’ve read ’em. I want somebody to say, man, I just, I digested this book and I got this one piece out of it. Yeah. Um, I want people to do execution tasks every day. Like if you’re, you know, if you’re not practicing and training the way that you close, then you can’t close. Yep. Right. I love it. People in business, I, I build relationships. Okay, good. relationships without an agenda are just relationships. Yep. Everybody’s in a relationship to have an outcome. You better know how to transition it. The last thing is we’ve gotta have a practice on how do we summarize and review and journal. Okay. So at the end of the day, we sit down and say, here’s what happened. Here’s how it went. I planned out my day. I execute. Here were some, you know, oh my God. I had a phone call at 11, like my, my youngest daughter’s finishing up at Auburn. She’s got a puppy. She just had surgery. Of course. Me and his dad said, why did we get a puppy before we had surgery? The cutest thing in the world. She’s at school. Her dog sitter didn’t show up this morning. So my wife was about to drive to Auburn. Okay. Of course, we wake up to that firestorm this morning. At the end of the day, it’s no big deal. Right, right. And it’s a great dog, but, but it’s, it, it undisciplined. It makes me angry cause I’m like, nobody listened to me when I said, don’t get this dog right now. Even though I think it’s dog rocks. Okay. It’s the sweetest thing in the world. Okay. But it’s still a puppy, right? Yeah. It still needs attention and stimulation. Right. Can’t go to daycare yet. And, um, and so, you know, the undisciplined me was like, nobody ever listens to me. Like that’s the cascade of thoughts, right? Like, you know, I work hard and, you know, those are the things, right? The main me, um, the discipline mind is, Hey, this is a short term barrier. Help him through it. It doesn’t impact you, your wife. My wife doesn’t need to go down there. We developed a solution. Okay, we’ll help get her in the spot. It’s like, no big deal. Like really in the grand scheme of things, it’s no big deal. It’s no big deal. Brett Gilliland: How does that, sorry to interrupt you. How does that, how do you do that though? When the mi the mad mind, there’s, nobody’s listening to me. I’m, you know, I’m teaching people over the world. I’m this, I’m that. Like, how do you then say, okay, let’s, let’s get outta that brain thought and get into the what’s normal and not… Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You have to look at it. Awareness is critical, right? The, the mistake that our brain makes is that we make judgements. We make, we mind makes validation and judgment as assumptions. Yeah. It, it tries to take a picture in evaluating and it does it because if you think about the protective mechanism of the mind, it’s identifying risks internally and all the time. And it’s, if you look at it and say, wait a minute here, um, that’s not helping me right now. There’s a time to analyze and there’s a time to execute. Let me get back to what I need to do. Okay. So the first step’s, just simply having awareness to it, that I’m doing it. You can’t be like, I love the idea of positive thinking. It’s great. Okay. There are times that I’ve got pretty crappy thinking. And I know that sometimes that crappy thinking leads me to be a bad spot. So I don’t chastise myself about being in a perspective, whatever. I’m like, Hey look, this is not the best. It’s not judgmental. Hey, is there a better way I could do this? So it’s simply having the awareness. It’s not the problem that it’s there. It’s how long did we allow the damage to happen. That I think where people make a mistake is that they’re like, I cannot believe that I did that. It’s like, Hey, I got angry. Or you know what? I got nervous. That’s okay. I think that’s cool. Jam on, man. You know, the other thing too is, you know, this, this, this stuff’s hard because we don’t have thought bubbles above other people’s heads that we can see what you are dealing with. Every one of us puts on a face and that mask is powerful and that mask is, um, That mask is predicting what we want us to be. Thomas Merton, who is a, a philosophical priest, uh, and I did a podcast with Wright Thompson, who’s one I think the finest writer in all sports that got that bourbon voice. If you watch the masters, he’s the guy that does the little voiceovers in the beginning.  Brett Gilliland: Oh yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Okay. So Wright is brilliant. He’s a phenomenal writer and can get in the human psyche. He’s so clear, and he said Thomas Merton, the philosopher, said, we all wear a mask, but it’s the mask that eats the face that we start embodying the mask. I’m like, God, that’s so good, ,right? We’re not vulnerable human beings. So what happens? We see what we see in other people is we see other people’s. We reflect, we connect to somebody else’s, strength because it usually matches our insecurities. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s strong.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Because if I look at somebody and I’m like, man, I like, I know what I’m good at. I hate exercise. I hate that stuff. I did it when I played. I don’t, you know, I don’t, I don’t work out a lot. I need to, I should, I know, um, I work, I mean, I don’t even know how many hours are in a, a week. Um, I work way too many hours. I’m in the, over the a hundred hour week. Okay. Yeah. Um, and, and so for me to get up at or to go work, like, I got home last night at eight o’clock, like I left at five or day and I got home at eight. And what nonstop at to go exercise during the day, like that when I had a 20 minute lunch, I’m not gonna do it, like. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: So, so I’ve just eventually have come to a spot where like, you know what? Can’t get mad at myself for not doing it. I mean, like, I, I watch people go running down the road and I’m like, God, I wish I could do that. Like, that’s really cool. And I’m like, well, I can make better, better, you know, I could eat better. Oh, when you’re exhausted. Not into it tonight, but you know when you’re exhausted, your willpower drops. Because willpower’s a resource. It’s not a trait. Um, and by the way, parents, if you’re listening to this, your kid who doesn’t seem to really want it at 14 hasn’t learned to want it, don’t force it on ’em. Like let them figure it out and see if it’s something that they truly like. Like try to make ’em listen to your music. They don’t connect to it. Right. Like I of Nirvana and Guns N’ Roses and stuff like that, cause it reminds me of college. Okay. Right. You give that to people. Like Yeah, that’s awesome. Riff right there, man. But they’re listening to other things that relate to ’em now. Right. Okay. Yeah. So it doesn’t seem like they’re really motivated. It’s like, chill. Okay. They’ll find them. But that’s the same thing as willpower comes in and all sudden, well, I’ll just get a, you know, I’ll just run to McDonald’s real quick. Eight minutes to eat right. And that’s what happened. Yep. Okay. So I think we’re so judgmental on ourselves instead of really seeing the suffering that we’re all going through. And I don’t mean suffering is a bad thing. Suffering is, suffering is fine. And, and yeah, there are, and I’m sure I’ll get messages of people saying, Hey, you know, I’ll help you out. I was like, good luck. Okay. I mean, I don’t mean that in a bad way. I just, just, it’s not my thing. Like I need to I should. I went to my doctor, who’s my buddy, and I’m like, Hey, blood, draw all my blood. Show me why I need to work out and calls me and goes, yeah, everything’s normal. I was like, dammit. But I think because I respect the living hell outta of people who can do that, like I don’t have that discipline because they’re not, that’s not my thing. Yeah. Okay. I’ll work around the clock to have a week long vacation though. Yeah, a hundred percent. Like I dig that like going on a trip, seeing part of the world that I really enjoy. Like I like that. I don’t do a lot of reading at night. Like I love to read . I love to listen to books, but it’s not the same. I love to read. I didn’t, I hated reading in school cause I had to, but I love to read, but I don’t come home at night and go, I’m gonna turn off and read. My mind, I, I know my risks are so to your question is like, I know where my, my, I can get very down very quickly. I can get very anxious very quickly too because I feel like I’m pulled all the time so I have to know what my protection is. And so something that is taking more energy to do it wears out an empty tank pretty quickly. Yeah. Now I’m not saying this to people to say, man, I’m worried about you. Don’t be like, this is the life I chose and this is what I dig. I love this stuff. Yeah. Okay. When somebody else is like, somebody else is like, you know what I love to do? Like I have a friend of mine’s, like, I love to go for a run. I’m like, how do you do that? He’s like, I grew up as a runner. I’m a competitive distance runner. It, I get out there an hour and a half run. And I’m like hour and a half, but is on the top of his game. Okay. But that’s his release. He doesn’t play golf, he doesn’t go to sporting events, he doesn’t travel. He builds businesses and running for him is almost like a…  Brett Gilliland: It’s his outlet.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s his endorphin outlet. Yeah. Right. He’s like, I look in the mirror and I know I’ve won the day. And I’m like, God, I wish I could do that. And, and that’s the thing is we’re so judgmental on ourselves to see the Wonder (inaudible), you know, self-esteem that in, in the American culture, what we do is we, we cover it with those masks. So I bought G Wagon. Okay, great. Um, like I have a, my, my buddy who’s a doctor drives a G wagon, and I said, why do you buy that? He goes, because I bought somebody else’s mistake. And I’m like, what do you mean? He goes, I buy ’em used. A person drove it for eight months, couldn’t afford it, had to sell it. He goes, I won. Like, that’s how he sees it . And I’m like, yes. Oh my God. Awesome. Like, yeah, like awesome. Like I don’t have a beach house. I don’t know if I ever want one. Yeah. I love people who have ’em. The reason I’m not home enough. So for me to think I’ve gotta go somewhere else. If I get to be a full-time writer. Yeah. I want one, why? Cause that’s where I’m going to write.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Like, I don’t go to sporting events. I don’t, I I work at ’em. Those going into a sporting event of a team I work with, that’s not fun. You know, and so I, I, I bring all this up, not knocking anybody else who does all that. Like, you gotta know what feeds you. Like if you wanna put mayonnaise on your french fries, do it. Why’s you not infringing on the rights of another human being, do it. But the point is, is that we have to know who we are. And so we see the insecurities and, and you know, I look at somebody and I’m like, man, you know, like, see somebody and like, man, they’re, they look fit and good. That’s usually I’m at. I see that like I’m, my mind is attracted to that because I don’t feel that. So instead of chasing that emotional and discipline of like, man, I feel so crappy about myself in such a player, like I’m a high performance psychologist, should be fit right where my goes, I don’t care. You’re not my trainer.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: I mean he’s like, I want you to do it for your health, but he’s like, you wanna go get some wings tonight? And I’m like, you’re the biggest ass. He’s like, he goes, I know you’re there when I pick up the phone.  Brett Gilliland: Right? Yeah. You’re not his, you’re not his fitness trainer, so he doesn’t care.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. And I know I should, you know, like that’s, yeah. Those are the things. But what I, the reason I’m bringing this up in disclosure is so people can understand that we all suffer from stuff. Yeah. Like I, I remember years ago, Go, you know, you go into like an old town main street, right? And they’d have this scene, and this scene would be this like living room setup. And back in the sixties they’d have models that would sit in there and everybody would look happy, right? And everybody was smiling, which he did know is that maybe the husband and a wife couldn’t communicate. The kids were miserable and they’re full of anxiety. What we project is not often what’s behind the scenes. I want people to realize that we’re all struggling with something. I, I, there’s a, a brilliant, brilliant book by Robert Wright called Why Buddhism is True. And as I’m advocating for Buddhism, um, Buddhist thought is very brilliant. It’s very stoic. The way of thinking is insane. But what he is saying is that, you know, social comparison is the core of the human experience because it’s our evaluation on the evolutionary leader. It’s the way we evaluate. We don’t, we don’t connect to people who are lesser than us, in theory, in social status, cuz they’re not good reproducible candidates. So when you think about it from a genetic stance, we suffer for a reason. Nobody will ever reach full content. You ever met a, I mean, you do. Well, have you ever met a truly content multimillionaire?  Brett Gilliland: No. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Does anybody ever come to you… Brett Gilliland: Nothing’s ever good enough. Right? It’s like when, when’s it ever enough? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. Oh, the market’s gonna change, or, yeah. Well, fear based, oh my God, it’s gonna be bad. Or, Hey, I’d like to, I’d like to pay for my grandkids house. So I wanna like, we do that cause it makes us feel good. And so I, I say all this cuz that suffering is norm. Like we have angst. I mean, you know, there are times that we got real crappy thinking going on and instead of judging ourselves, just look at it. Say, you know what, dude, I’m in a, I’m in a tough spot right now mentally. Yeah. Like, I’m okay. It’s okay. And I know where I need to go. Like if I’m struggling, um, I need to have control. Of my, of my mind a little bit, and I’m like, need to go to the coffee shop. I need to go do some writing. That’s very cathartic to me. Um, going out for a nice dinner and having a drink with my wife, that’s usually relaxation of getting away. That’s not, I’m not gonna say, Ooh, I want to go do that. Yeah. Um, golf course, I enjoy it, but if I go out during the week and sneak away, I’m, I’m a nervous wreck. This past year, year, my guys went back to back on the PJ Tour and, uh, I don’t, I mean, I can say who they were cause they had mentioned me in the media. Sam Birds won the Colonial next week. Billy Hors won the memorial that week. I was down at the coast, I was down at Rosemary Beach all week. I didn’t go to either event and I would be an absolute nervous wreck that week. And my wife’s like, and I’m like, well, they don’t need, you know, I don’t wanna lose ’em. I love the guys. They’re amazing human being, you know, like I’m going through all that right in my head. And, um, we we’re talking about it and we’re, you know, whatever. And I’m like, um, but it was such a powerless position to be in and yet I was so proud of them. Yeah. And we had conversations and all, and I’m like, and I’m sitting there, I’m like, I had to like, going to Maui, we go to Maui every year for the Tournament of Champions is a winning event. You know, you win on the tour, you’re, you’re there the next year. And we go because my wife’s tonight’s anniversaries during that time. So it’s really there on vacation. And we just happen to check on the guys at the tournament. They don’t really care that year. And I’m a nervous wreck on the beach because when you wake up Maui, it’s already noon here. Yes. And it’s, you’ve got six hours of messages. Now January 3rd, how many people are really stressed? But that’s, and so I don’t relax and Maui till like one o’clock cuz now it’s the end of the day. And, but I love going, but I, I don’t do good getting away. I love vacations, but I, I don’t like, we’re going skiing next two weeks. I can guarantee you I’ll be checking my phone the entire time I’m on the mountain. You know, and so just insight not having, yeah.  Brett Gilliland: No, and I think that’s, but that’s, again, that’s why you’re good at what you’re doing Right. And getting to the level you’re at. And it’s, again, knowing your role, knowing the lane you play in, and, and that’s what makes your world work. And it may not work for the next cat, which is kind of what you started with. Know, know what works for you and, and, and be okay with it. Because I know for me personally, there was things, oh, I know I need to do this. And if I didn’t do it, then I’m, you know, kicking my own ass for a while until I finally had this aha moment of like, you know what dude, you’ve done okay.  Like, if this works for you, it doesn’t mean that it’s it that you have to do this other thing. You just don’t.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. You know, I had a, I had a guy in field one time tell me, he is like a lot of my colleagues do their business on the golf course. And he said, I don’t like to do that. I said, why not? He goes, because I don’t enjoy playing with people I don’t enjoy playing with. Brett Gilliland: Hmm.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And I was like, okay. He goes, but you know, other people said, take him on the golf course cuz you know, he loves to play golf. He’s a hell of a player. He’s like, I don’t enjoy it, like.  Brett Gilliland: I don’t wanna do that.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: I don’t wanna, he knows, I like to do it a different way. Like I always laugh. Right, right. There are certain psychological indicators that we follow. Like you go into a doctor’s office, you want it to be clean, nice, well organized. The, they walk out in a white coat. You go in a dentist’s office, there’s always a, um, a fish tank for calming for the most part. Music playing in the background, open doors. Financial planners. Today’s world wearing a suit versus what you’re wearing. I’d much rather connect to somebody wearing what you’re wearing.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Okay. But maybe people who are 60 or 70. They want the person in the Merrill Lynch suit.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Because that’s how they grew, you know? So you gotta know that, right? You gotta know what your clients want and you gotta know it’s okay. Like, I think that’s so cool. It’s like coaches, like I, when I first started this, I was trying to be, what other people were I It inspired by then I’d be like, I gotta wear this, I gotta wear that. I gotta, and then I was like, if I wear shorts every day, do people care? Nah. Brett Gilliland: Eh, it’s funny you say that, you know, cause I, I wore a suit from, you know, God, the first 15 years of my career, it felt like, man, first 12 years for sure of my career. You know, and then it’s like you change and then it’s like, you know, you’re wearing this. It’s like, but this is who I am. I, I don’t, I feel like a, I feel weird in a suit and it just doesn’t feel genuine. And, and so yeah, you’re right. And it, it, you gotta work with it and your client’s gotta be okay with it. And that’s, that’s fine. That’s totally fine. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s funny to watch how cultural, how social media and streaming has changed dynamics. Cuz like on ESPN now hoodies and which, um, but 10 years ago we’ve been like, oh my God, that person’s not wearing a tie.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Now they’re wearing a hoodie with a sport coat. I’m like, what in the hell? Like, what’s going on right now?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Great. My daughter said, you can’t wear that. You’re not fit enough.  Brett Gilliland: You’re like, but it looks cool on that dude. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It does. And I’m like, man, that looks good. Or t or tennis shoes, you know? And, and my daughter’s boyfriend, uh, and he was like, Hey Bhrett, when you go speak to teams, what do you wear? And I’m like, I wear this. He goes, man, your shoe game is terrible. Like, I love Ben because his shoe game is great, right? And, um, and, but it’s like, he goes, this is the first thing that players in college look at. Yep. I’m like, whoa. I said, what about the sport coat? He goes, I don’t care about the sport coat , what’s your shoe game? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And he’s like, that means you’re connecting to us, and if you really care about shoes, it matters. Okay. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s funny.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And I know, and I’m like, interesting. Like, you know what, what does, you know, what, what do people want? And when you started thinking about it, it’s like, why is, why is so this past week or so on the social media realm, Influencers in golf have been picked up by about every major club manufacturer for a lot of money. They’re spending significantly more funny on influencers than they are in the PJ Tour players. Why? Because a kid puts up a video, he gets 600,000 likes. Final round of a PJ Tour gets 200,000 views.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: The market’s moving. It’s changing quick, isn’t it? Scottsdale still gets a huge view, but stuff like that. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So where do our listeners find more of you? Bhrett. Uh, obviously I think it’s a, a great, uh, I’m asking you the question, but here I’m saying it. Go, go to Instagram. That’s where I, that’s where I follow you. Phenomenal stuff. Where do our listeners find more of you if they want to connect?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, and I appreciate that. And, and you’ll know one thing, I’m, I am honest and I share my mind and sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, but it’s comes from passion. Um, there’s two things. One is if you go to any, any social media at Dr. Bhrett McCabe or my website’s, bhrettmccabe.com, there’s something that’s coming up that I’m really excited about starting mid-February, February 21st. We’re starting, we’re launching a weekly show called Mental Game Live. Mental Game Live is a one hour show that is done and streamed on YouTube. It’s completely free. It’s gonna break down the barriers. It’s identify the things that are happening in the game across all sports. Um, it’s a segmented show. It’ll be great. It’ll be resourced. You don’t have to watch it live cause it’ll be housed on YouTube. Um, I want people to understand in business life, school, sport, parenting, everything, but the mental game is accessible. It’s not mysterious, it’s not hype. It’s about knowing who you are. And so the Mental Game Live is coming. So anywhere you can find me, please do. I try to be active on everything. The only thing I’m not active on is Snapchat. Cause I, I just don’t get that. Um, I used to say forever, I was never gonna get involved in TikTok, TikTok Rocks. I know the Chinese (inaudible), but I mean it more people watch content and consume content there than any place. Brett Gilliland: It’s unbelievable.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s unbelievable. And it’s good content. And I mean, look, you know, we can argue Facebook, we can argue Twitter, we can a, get, everything has its issues, right? Um, but get content out there. Share content, share it. Those are our libraries today. People ask me all the time, what’s a great kid to read? I’m like, TikTok.  Brett Gilliland: To like, what, what, what, what does happen?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: No 14 old kids gonna sit down and read a book.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. No, no.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: So please join me. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. We’ll put all that stuff in the show notes. You’re, uh, the mind game, The Mental Game Live on YouTube. I can’t wait to watch that. That’s gonna be awesome. And, uh, when you’re down in Rosemary Beach, you’d probably see my here a little watercolor, you know, we’ll, we’ll connect down on 30 a. The greatest spot in America, in my humble opinion.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Where do you play? Brett Gilliland: Uh, when I’m down there? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Mm-hmm.  Brett Gilliland: Little place inland called Wind Swept Dunes. It’s actually the longest course in Florida from the tips. Now I don’t play from the tips when I go there, but that’s where we go. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s, it’s windy as hell…  Brett Gilliland: Have you been there? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Oh yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Place is awesome. We love, we go on a guys trip every November, uh, down there. We’ve been going for about 10 years. And then when I go down there with my family, like we’ll be there in July, me and my boy, I got four boys, we’ll go down there and play it. And, uh, so it’s just awesome. We love it down there. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s, it’s a great golf course. When the town I played at the hadn’t built the clubhouse yet. So they have a clubhouse now? Brett Gilliland: No, they do not. They still have like, I don’t even know what it is. It’s like this, almost like a double wide trailer, you know, it’s like you go in there and the lady’s in there, the same lady making her, uh, you know, chicken salad and you have a little sandwich, a little, uh, maybe a little sloppy joe even down there. And, uh, but you’re out there for the golf and the brotherhood. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: But the food’s incredible.  Brett Gilliland: It is. It is. Absolutely. Well man, hey, thanks so much for being with me, Bhrett. It’s been awesome. We’ll look forward to continue watching you on your journey and thanks for joining us on the Circuit of Success.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Thank you very much. Hope that was good. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Sharon Lechter brings her knowledge as a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) to discuss the importance of living in courage rather than fear, especially financially. She highlights the choices that each of us has with every dollar we receive and how those choices can negatively or positively affect a more significant outcome. The New York Times Bestselling Author of multiple publications shares her formula for a positive and motivating life, emphasizing stepping out of your comfort zone despite fear. What aspects of your life can you ask yourself, ‘Why not?’. https://youtu.be/XSM1X8lLo60 Brett Gilliland: Welcome to The Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Sharon Lechter with me. Sharon, how you doing?  Sharon Lechter: I am fantastic, Brett. Thanks so much. Look forward to talking to you. Brett Gilliland: Oh, look forward to it. I’ve been looking forward to this interview for a while. You’re, uh, you’re gonna see me holding this book if you’re getting to watch this.  You’ve probably seen this a time or 4,000 times. And, uh, this is ‘Rich Dad Poor Dad’. Uh, you are the co-author with Robert Kiosaki on that, and it’s, it’s cool. I uh it’s, I, I read this again in 2022, so I, I wrote down, I’ve be for years, I write down when I read the book and, you know, can able to do the math of my age and stuff. And so I originally read this book in 2002 when I was 24 years old and I read it again last year in March when I was 44 years old. So it’s kind of crazy to think, uh, you know, the things you get from one book, uh, reading it as a 24 year old, and now as a 44 year old, you connect a little different with it. And so I reached out to you and I said, “Hey, I gotta have you on the podcast.” And you were kind enough to respond and here we are. So, uh, that being said, you’ve done that, uh, well, you’ve written tons of books and you’ve had five ti You’re a five Time New York Times bestseller, uh, on author, A Successful Entrepreneur, philanthropist. Um, cpa, you name it, you’ve been doing it. I’ll shut up now and, uh, let people talk to Sharon Lechter. So if you can, Sharon, tell us a little bit more about what’s made you the woman you are today.  Sharon Lechter: Well, thanks Brett. Yes. I, you know, when I first started, I lived in a very lower middle class house with my parents. We had a little house between my mom’s beauty shop and my dad’s used car lot and we owned rental properties. So I’ve been in real estate investing since I was 10. I had to go scrub out the bathrooms between tenants and we were orange groves, and I swear I would never be an entrepreneur. I saw my friends whose parents were CEOs of companies or military officers, and I said, that’s what I want. I, I wanna get, become a sophisticated professional. So I went to college, got my degree in accounting. I was one of the very first women in public accounting, um, in Atlanta, Georgia. Single CPA having fun in Atlanta at the ripe a, age old age of 25. I realized my parents were pretty smart cuz I was working incredible hours and not in control of my life. And I said, this is crazy. So I had the opportunity to. One of my clients invited me to go into a company he was buying out a bankruptcy actually to um, invest in a new company. It’s like, okay. So I went back to my condo and said pros and cons. Back then, it was before PCs. So the old yellow legal pad  Brett Gilliland: The old T chart. Sharon Lechter: That’s right, that’s right. And it didn’t help me a bit cuz I could argue both sides. Mobile rising career and public accounting versus the opportunity to own a piece of the rock. And so, um, I, my hand kind of took off across the top of the page and wrote, why not? And that really is still my mantra today. Why not do something different? Why not solve a problem, serve a need? Why not take the path less traveled? And, uh, I think in our society today, too many people ask question, why? Waiting for somebody to tell you what you should do. And why not comes from within. Why not do something that you know you need to do that, uh, can solve a problem or serve a need? So that’s really been my mantra. I left public accounting, met my husband, then I’ve never looked back. Started women’s magazines, talking children’s books, and then on to Richette, so. Brett Gilliland: Amazing. So when you think about that, if we can go back in time and, you know, that’s scary, I would assume, right? Cause one was, uh, assuming on the T chart we were talking about the, the left side, let’s call it the accounting side, had a guaranteed paycheck probably. Right? They had a check coming in every two weeks, and health insurance, probably all these things, whereas the one on the right side, it didn’t have any of that, I would assume. And so when, when you think about that Sharon Lechter, and you think about the person right now that’s struggling with that of, I wanna follow my dream and this passion, but man, there’s no guaranteed success there versus this every day, every two week check. What, what would you tell that person uh, right now? Sharon Lechter: Well, sometimes you have to close the door for other doors of opportunity to open. When I made that decision, it turned out to be the worst business decision of my life, Brett. But as Napoleon Hill says, “out of adversity comes a seat of an equal or greater opportunity.” Had I not made the decision to leave public accounting, I would never have met my husband, Mike Lechter, and we’ve been married 42 years, so my worst business decision became my best life decision. But if you’re in that position where you have to make a decision between something that’s safe and secure, you think it’s secure, ask yourself truly how secure it is versus something that is something new and new experience. And you know, again, ask yourself why not try something different? Cuz you know, there’re lots of reasons why not. If it’s not legal, don’t do it. But I think people we change is inevitable. And as, as the world has proven over and over again, the safe, secure job no longer exists. So are you doing what you, are you challenging yourself every day? Are you doing having new experiences? Are you looking for ways to expand your life, both in opportunity and in resources? and ask yourself that. Who’s in control? I mean, I happen to be a control freak, so that was an easy question for me at that point in time… Brett Gilliland: yeah… Sharon Lechter: …do I wanna be in control of my life or do I want somebody else in control of my life? Brett Gilliland: And do you think that you’ve always believed in yourself or was that a muscle that you’ve built over time?  Sharon Lechter: Yes and yes. Um, I was raised in a home where I was told I could do anything I wanted to. And if you imagine my age, I was many, many times the only woman in the room. Um, I started my career before they even had the term lasting. And we just knew that if we wanted to succeed, we had to work harder than men. But I never looked at it as a male versus female thing. And for me it’s um, you just make that decision to continue moving forward. That being said, there were many times when I was insecure, not sure what, what I was gonna do, afraid, fear, fearing of what was gonna happen, and um, but I would come back to it. You either win or you learn something, right? There’s no win lose, you win or you learn. And so I would act in spite of the fear. You know, courage is acting in spite of fear, not because of it, so.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, and again, back on those early days, I mean, what was the grind like, you know, you, you, you, yes. Now you’ve got all these different revenue sources and income, and I know you’re very open about talking about money, so, uh, that’s why I asked the question is, but what, what was it like when you didn’t have money and, and you didn’t, uh, have so many different revenue sources? What was it like back then?  Sharon Lechter: Well, you have to make choices, you know? Um, yeah, I started working when I was 15, and so the, the, my father and mother instilled those money habits into me really early on, and so I always lived within my means, um, and understood that I was very kind of alone in that process. A lot of my friends were getting into debt. And, but you have to make choices. Make choices that work within your budget, um, give you the opportunity to set money aside. And you know, today it’s even more important to pay attention to where the cash flow is going. With every dollar you receive, you have a choice. You can keep it and invest it and have it work for you, or you can spend it and it goes away. And so if more and more people understood that and made different choices, they’d be, be in a much different financial position.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And what, what have you learned over the years from, obviously yourself? There’s lots of learning, but you know, I, I’ll just pick on, you know, Robert Kiasaki, obviously he’s had a, an immense amount of success, a along with you, and then you think of, I know you’ve advised, Or worked with now three different presidents, right? You have George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump before he was president. So we’re not talking politics here. I can’t stand talking politics, but when, when you think of those three people that made it to the most, you know, the highest level you could possibly make as being the president of the United States, what, what have you learned from people like that over the years that makes them different? Sharon Lechter: Well, I think, um, without a doubt, um, I, when I wrote ‘Three Feet From Gold’, which was my first book with the Napoleon Hill Foundation, I talk about the personal success equation. So let me frame it in within that because… Brett Gilliland: Perfect.  Sharon Lechter: …you have your passion and your talent. So you look at those three men and you can pretty much know what their passion, their talent was. Um, I had my passion for financial literacy. We’re not teaching kids about money in school, so it made me angry. That was my passion. My talent was my background in accounting, my background in publishing, and most of us stopped there. But true success in all of those individuals you just talked about, their success was through that power of association surrounding themselves with the right people. Surrounding themselves with people who are stronger, they are weak. Understanding how to get in front of, in the right rooms and then times a take action, right? Your action. How many times do we know what we’re supposed to do? We just don’t do it. And so take and being action takers. Every one of those people you mentioned are action takers. And the last one is faith and confidence. Having faith in yourself. I don’t think any of them had a lack of confidence in themselves, but many of us do. Alright. And so when I start mentoring people, I go through that formula, passion plus talent times association times action plus faith. And invariably, the areas that need the most work are association and faith. Most people don’t have the right people around them, or they’ve outgrown the people in their circle and they haven’t taken the step to expand their associations, and they don’t have enough confidence. They don’t think they’re good enough. They think, you know, they think the luck has passed them by and they go hand in hand when you have the right people around you. And you have a bad day, they won’t let you stay there. So do you have a mentor? Do you have somebody who’s pushing you in the right direction? Do you, are you hanging out with people who challenge you and want you to do better? If not, maybe you need to look at your associations and have the right guide. Because what happens is when we earn the wrong place, our confidence starts waning and that they go hand in hand.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I love that. So passion plus Talent times association. Plus… Sharon Lechter: Times action, Brett Gilliland: …times action.  Sharon Lechter: All of that together, plus faith and confidence in yourself.  Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Sharon Lechter: You, you can go to, um, personalsuccessequation.com . I have an ebook that helps take me through that formula for your own life.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Sharon Lechter: Giving you some suggestions, some thought provoking things, and it’s free, personalsuccessequation.com  Brett Gilliland: personalsuccessequation.com . All right. We will put that in the, in the link here in the show notes. Uh, but that, that’s, and you’re so right. I mean, the passion part  Sharon Lechter: is, um, you know, and then you said earlier your personal mantra, why not? I also, in my research saw that your mission is to, to play big again. And, and so when you think about that is you do have to know what your passions are. And you know, as you see on my mic here, maybe, maybe not. Brett Gilliland: But it’s, it talks about future greater than your past, right? And, um, that’s our mission. That’s our firm’s mission. That’s my mission, and it’s, it’s become my passion of helping others. That’s when time stops for me or, or speeds up, I guess, depending on how you look at it. But it’s like when you’re working in that passion field, time just stands still, doesn’t it? Sharon Lechter: Yeah. Well, I don’t, nothing that I ever do feels like work because it’s not… Brett Gilliland: Right.  Sharon Lechter: …drudgery, you think work is drudgery? Um, I do what I do because, um, it makes me feel, um, pur my purpose. I’m in purpose. When you are in purpose, it’s not work.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What’s funny you say that I just, uh, was at lunch and going through getting my sandwich and the guy said, we, we had a bunch of snow here today and, and I’m in St. Louis on the Illinois. Bunch of snow. They canceled school yesterday. All this stuff. Or today. And he says, oh, you’re one of the unlucky ones that had to go to work. Huh? And I like, I kind of looked at him, I said, Nope. I said, I chose to go to work. I said, I love what I do. And it’s, you know, it makes you think as you kind of think about that comment. Oh, you’re, you’re one of the ones that had to go to work today. I mean, imagine feeling that, right? And, and there’s people driving down the road listening to this. Maybe right now they feel that same way. They’re driving to work. But how, how have you chosen to get to do the things that you want to do and then have made a career making money out of it? Sharon Lechter: Well, I love what you just said because I literally just wrote an article for a book yesterday where we were talking about the power of words. You have the choice and control over three things, your thoughts, your words, your actions, and instead of saying, I have to go to work, see, I get to go to work, right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Sharon Lechter: One’s negative, one’s positive. So if we can control our thoughts and our words, we control our environment around us. And it’s really important for people to think about, you know, if you want to spend your day in drudgery, then you’re attracting all the negativity by using those negative words. I have to go to work. Um, if you can reframe your thoughts… so for instance, when it comes to money, you’re bringing up money. We can’t afford it. That’s negative. You close your mind, you wanna turn off the lights and get under the covers. It’s depressing. And instead of you, instead of saying, I can’t afford something, say, how can I afford something? Do you feel the difference? It open to triggers your entrepreneurial spirit, it opens your mind, and you. Your subconscious starts working towards how to solve that question and how, how to afford something that you want. And so the choice of your words are very, very important. Thoughts, words and actions. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. So the, the hints, the name of this podcast, the, uh, the Circuit of Success, one of the circuits, if you will, is action. I believe in your attitude, your belief system, ultimately the actions that you take, get the results that you want to have in your life, right? So attitude, actions, beliefs. Um, so I couldn’t agree more because so many people just think, oh, I’ll, I’ll write it down on a piece of paper, this great business plan, but they don’t take action, right? It stays in the top right drawer of your office desk or wherever, and they don’t take action. So when you think about taking action, like what does your day look like when you, you know, you wake up in the morning, do you pre-plan it? Do you plan it as you go? What’s that look like for you?  Sharon Lechter: Well, every day is slightly different. I know overall what my, um, long-term goals are, and I time block so that I can not have to worry about what’s going on. I have time set aside. So for instance, um, this morning I’m looking, I’m working on a new book, so I had time scheduled this morning that nothing else was happening except me accomplishing one, I need to chew on this new book. And so each of us has to think about how are, how are we going to accomplish what works best for you? And you have short-term goals, you have long-term goals, and then you have immediate action. What do, what can I get done first thing in the morning to make me feel better about myself? So it gives me the energy to keep going, you know, check, check off a few of those quick and easy things in the morning, and then start tackling the big ones.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So if I stole your phone and looked at your calendar, would I see that booked? Like, do you already know next Thursday or three Thursdays from now, what’s going on? Sharon Lechter: Um, pretty much, pretty much. I do a lot of time blocking and right now I’m in the midst, as I said, of a new book. So there’s a lot of, you know, a lot of, um, definite white space on my calendar that is for the book. And so it’s kind of like everybody else is Stay away. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s true for most successful people. I mean, I know I look at my calendar, I know things that are going on four months from now, right? I mean, you just, you kind of just go ahead and, like you said, call it time blocking. Put it in there and on repeat. I think that’s important. And for you to know if you have staff, for your staff to know. I mean, it’s that communication almost without the communication is everybody knows what the calendar needs to look like, and then if we just show up and execute, we take action, do the things we need to do. That’s, that’s the recipe for success. Right. And so, um, I wanna go back a little bit to this book, the, the ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’, because, you know, this was, I would assume this was the one that that kind of started at all. Would, would you agree with that?  Sharon Lechter: Um, from a standpoint of the personal finance brand, yes. you know, came out with a game and, um, as we were, as I was helping Robert with the game, he, you know, he told me he wanted to charge $200 for it, and I said, that’s kind of pricey, because I was just helping him as a friend. And Yeah. Said maybe you need to write a brochure for the game that explains the philosophy that would encourage people to spend that much money. And that’s when he asked me to become a partner. And that brochure we wrote was ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’. We never expected it to be the huge hit on its own, and so the world just took over and that was the first of 15 books we, we wrote together in building the Rich Dad brand around the world. Brett Gilliland: Wow. Uh, Oprah have a little something to do with that? Did that help?  Sharon Lechter: Yes, she did. Well, we actually made it all the lists on our own. We worked really hard. Um, and I literally was packaging books up in my, in my living room, in my dining room table, cuz this was before Amazon, before the internet believe it or not, Dinosaur times. And so I knew how we could get into the bookstores from a standpoint of information, and we would do radio broadcasts all over the world, and they would go on to the Ingram at that time to find the publisher of this book. So I’d wake up in the morning on, there’d be a pile of orders on my fax machine, and I package books one at a time, out to bookstores all over the world. And that’s in January of 2000. We released in, um, 1997, April 97, and in in January of 2000, we hit all the major lists. And then in April of 2000, we got the phone call from Oprah, which of course helped us just 10 x from there, so.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. Amazing. That’s amazing. So when you look back on your career now, um, what, what would you tell the 35 year old Sharon Lechter, what advice would you give her?  Sharon Lechter: Well, I, I asked that question a lot. You know what, your 16 year old, your 20 year old self, and I, I always kind of answer the same way, Brett, because I wouldn’t be who I am today if it weren’t for all the things that happened to me before today, good and bad. And so I try not to look back. I just try to look forward. But for any young people, young person that I’m speaking to, I talk about the importance of being true to yourself because each and every one of you was created to be the perfect rendition of you, not me, not Brett, not someone else. And so you, you have a role to play on earth. You have a purpose. So stand in your own power and find your purpose and make decisions that are right for you and your family. Um, and we don’t, you know, we live, too many of us live in the world as shoulda, coulda, woulda. And we have to think about what can I do, what’s possible and look into the future. We are all today, where we are today, because the choices we made before today. And if you want something different, something better, something more, start making different choices today.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. And what’s that process for you? Like when you think, okay, I gotta make different choices. Are you a planner? Are you, like, do you have certain times throughout the year you do goals, planning, goal strategies? Like how do you make a change in maybe a habit or, or a new thing that you’re gonna go out and do?  Sharon Lechter: Well, things change based on what quarter of your life you’re in. I mean, obviously I’m, I’ve been financially free since I was 38, but we still have goal setting and time where we think about the multiple businesses that we own as well as our personal life. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sharon Lechter: And so we think about, you know, family comes first. What do we want? We just literally came back two weeks ago from being in Costa Rica with our family for two weeks. That takes a lot of planning, um, lots of different schedules for every one of us. And I think it’s really important to focus on one big life. As you know, too many of us think about work or, or money, and we have to really think about our faith, our finances, our friends, our fitness, our all of that comes together to have one big life. And if I could change anything in the past, it would be to focus on making sure we don’t lose sight of one of those things because the importance of another. And this, um, you know, we only be around this world once and we need to make, make the most of it. And I, you know, I know too many people who get to the end of their life and they have a lot of money, but they don’t, they’ve lost their relationships along the way. And a lot of people have fan, very wonderful relationships. And they’re comfortable and they’re very, very happy. So which word do you want to be? You wanna have the material things, you wanna have the money at the expense of friends and family, or do you really want to have a well balanced life where you get up every single day excited about what that day’s gonna be and who you’re gonna be able to spend it with? Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I, I agree. I mean, I, I call it my f to the six power and, and it’s faith, family, fitness, fun, uh, firm, which is work for me. And then, uh, my finances, right. And those, and you just said most of those things right there. And I think I, I do a scorecard every 90 days for myself and for people I coach. And it, I think it’s important to not let one get too far off the reserve, right? Because I think if we’re not checking in with ourselves, uh, in my opinion, weekly, if not, you know, more often. But what have you done personally to make sure that one doesn’t get, you know, drift off to the side too, too far and it’s, it’s almost too late to even bring it back.  Sharon Lechter: Well, I believe it’s never too late to bring it back. Um, obviously your health is something that you can get too far to, um, you have to make some drastic changes. For me personally, I think, you know, we’ve, we’ve had a pretty well balanced life. Very happy Mike, and I’ve been married 42 years. Um, if anything I dropped the ball on is probably my fitness because I was so focused on work and driving and doing other things. I didn’t pay attention to my personal health. And that’s one of the things we’re focused on now, is trying to get ourselves back on the, at the prime level cuz we’re both my husband’s 73, I just turned 69. So it’s um, yeah, you know it’s a big issue when you get to that last chapter of your life so you wanna make sure that you are able to fill it, um, live it with our youngest grandchild is five, wanna see, be very vital and be able to be there for her for a long time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. How many grandkids do you have?  Sharon Lechter: We have four.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome.  Sharon Lechter: And and we just, just the best thing on earth, I always felt on stage. Now the only reason to be a parent is so you can become a grandparent. We love it.  Brett Gilliland: That’s what, uh, Robin, who I work with here, she said, if I could do it again, I’d have my grandkids first. She’s like, you just don’t realize how special these grandbabies are. It’s, uh, it’s pretty awesome. So, um, when you hear the word fear, uh, you mentioned it earlier, so how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude and you put ’em in your mind to be?  Sharon Lechter: Well, fear is something that can get blown up very quickly in your subconscious. And, um, the book out ‘Winning the Devil’ I wrote was, uh, originally written by Napoleon Hill as a sequel to ‘Think and Go Rich’ about overcoming fear. And I think it’s really important there was. Locked away for 72 years cuz his wife was afraid of the title. And so I was able, had the honor to bring it out, but fear is debilitating. Um, then the issue is do you, do you let fear stop you? Fear either paralyzes us or motivates us. Most of us are paralyzed by fear.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sharon Lechter: But ,instead, look at that fear as motivation to take the next step and turn that fear into fuel and energy to keep moving in the right direction. And it’s so important to understand, fear is part of the human nature. And so, um, when you’re stepping outside your comfort zone to experience something new, there’s gonna be a little trepidation and fear and ex and turn that into excitement to keep going and fuel, to keep experiencing something new in life.  Brett Gilliland: That’s great. So, uh, you, you talked about, or maybe you didn’t talk about, it was before we started recording, we talked about your ATMs talk, talk to us a little bit about that. What are those, where can people find them?  Sharon Lechter: Sure. Well, I talk about businesses, successful businesses do one of two things, solve a problem or serve a need. And so when I really, when I get mad about something, Brett, I usually start a new company. And when the pandemic hit three years ago, um, I was just inundated. We all were with all the negativity, the fear. Yeah. I mean, you just couldn’t, you just didn’t hear anything positive. And so I started a program called ATMs and said, daily is, um, deposit of, of abundance tips and mentorship, and I do it every single morning and it’s delivered to you either by text or in your email. And it really is to get people started off understanding, you’re perfect just the way you are. And that’s what I want people to understand. You’re perfect just the way you are and you have an opportunity to seize the day or be paralyzed by it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sharon Lechter: And so the ATM is really to talk at the E end of each one. I say, you are fabulous. Say it with me, I am fabulous. Because each and every one of us, we can either be reactive in the life we live, are proactive, and I want people to be proactive to seize the day and create opportunities.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And, and I think to your point there, that, that you are, you are perfect. All those things you say to yourself, I mean, you start to believe them, right? The more you say ’em. And I think back to ‘Think and Go Rich’, which obviously you’re very, very familiar with that. Another book I read when I was 23, 24 years old, it was very instrumental in my life. And I, if I remember correctly, I think they called a desire statement. You know, we, we changed the name, I think, and, and, you know, basically stole the idea and said design statement. But it’s true. And to this day, I still carry around things with me that, that I write to myself and that I read because. It, you gotta do it. I think it’s so important, uh, in life to, you know, what kind of parent do I want to be? What kind of spouse do I want to be and what, where am I at now? Where do I wanna be three years from now? And that got me through when I was on the grind and building it. And I think you’re always on the grind a little bit, uh, if you’re keep growing. But, um, but really the grind early on, that was super, super important for me. And I know you’ve been a part of that. So what are your thoughts on that?  Sharon Lechter: Well, absolutely. I mean, you have to have, my dad taught me map doesn’t do you any good if you don’t know where you are and where you want to go, and if you’re just walking through life aimlessly, then you’re going to be bounced around. You have to understand what it is you want outta life, personally and professionally, and, and have a focus on how to get it. And now obviously you have to be resilient. You have to be able to change directions if you have to, but your overall goal doesn’t change. You know when, when covid hit a lot of people talking about they were having to pivot and I said, no, you’re not pivoting. You just need to adjust, recalibrate. If your goal is the same, your goal doesn’t change. It’s just the way you approach it has to change. I use the analogy you wanna sail your boat to to Catalina Island from, you know, the coast of California and the wind changes. Your goal doesn’t change, but you have to recalibrate, adjust your sails, and be able to get to where you want to go. It’s the same thing in life. We think something’s going to happen. It does not. And we go, okay, well that doesn’t change my end goal. What do I need to do to get back on course?  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. Love it. So where do our listeners find more of Sharon Lechter? Sharon Lechter: Well, thank you, Brett. Yeah, Sharon. I’m kind of Sharon Lechter everywhere. sharonlechter.com . Sharon Lechter on Instagram, Facebook, and, um, my professional page is author of Sharon Lechter on Facebook. And then, um, just welcome everybody to reach out to me, info@sharonlechter.com . I have information about my business retreats at my ranch in Arizona. Business about mentoring, and my online programs are all sharonlechter.com . Brett Gilliland: Awesome. We’ll put all that in the show notes. And Sharon, it’s been so awesome having you. And I, again, just wanna go back to think about a book that you read 20 years ago and you know that that 20 year old kid, or 24 year old kid, you know, probably didn’t think 20 years later he’d be interviewing one of the authors. And I just think it’s funny how, uh, life works out. And I also think that, say it again.  Sharon Lechter: You have the first editions there my dear, you still have… Brett Gilliland: Oh, is that right?  Sharon Lechter: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it looks a little different now, doesn’t it? Uh, but man, it’s an amazing book and what an impact that you’ve made in your career. So I just really appreciate you spending some time with us and our listeners today on the Circuit of Success. Sharon Lechter: Thank you so much, and I appreciate you doing this is, you know, it’s all power of association, so I’m happy to, to meet you and I look forward to getting to know you even better. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Wallstreet Journal and USA Today bestselling author Dr. Karyn Gordon talks about developing fundamental leadership skills in children at a young age, focusing on building confidence and self-discipline. She relates her experiences as a mother and a family and marriage therapist to encourage parents to set boundaries with technology. She empowers everyone to establish a daily routine to chase their definition of success. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Dr. Karyn Gordon with me. Karysn, how you doing?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: I’m doing well. How are you doing?  Brett Gilliland: I am great. We were talking before we started recording. You’re up there looking at a, maybe a foot and a half of snow or something and just what, two hours north of Toronto? Dr. Karyn Gordon: I am two hours north of Toronto and literally we had a snowstorm last night, so my kids are actually home today. Uh, they have a snow day they’re very excited about, but it is a winter wonderland. Um, but, you know, it’s beautiful and I feel very blessed. Brett Gilliland: Very blessed to be inside where it’s, you know, 70, 72 degrees and warm, right?. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Right. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: You know, the snow days are kind of getting ruined, aren’t they? I mean, it used to be you could get a snow day to go play, but now sometimes they say snow day, but you’re still gonna get up and get on Zoom and do some, do some schooling. That happens every now and then.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Usually, you know what, their last school, they did that, but not this one. This one. They’re like, snow days just enjoy yourself.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Right. Um, we’ve got a few of those built in the, the old school days are built in, but then there’s a number of them that if, if we get to that number, we gotta go back online. I’m gonna read a few things about you, Karen, because you’ve gotta quite the resume. Um, I can’t read at all because we would just have a podcast about your resume and then that would be boring for everybody. So, uh, but we’re gonna start with, uh, you are a ‘Wall Street Journal’ and ‘USA Today’ bestselling author. You are a ‘Ted Talk’ speaker, and here’s what I thought was awesome. You were the top 10 most popular Ted, ‘TEDx’ talk in 2022 globally. That’s a big deal. Ums a very big deal.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: The actual number was number six.  Brett Gilliland: Six. Number six for those counting and keeping score at home, what you got to in life, right? Uh, you were the CEO and cal, uh, co-founder of DK Leadership. You have a doctorate in marriage and, uh, and family with, uh, and you were the spokesperson.  I thought this was cool For Maple Leaf Foods, Microsoft, eHarmony, and UNICEF. Um a professional counselor for 25 years, an executive coach, uh, a media personality who’s consulted for ‘Good Morning America’, ‘Forbes’ entrepreneur, the ‘New York Times’ and Cityline. And again, I could go on and on and on, but a doctorate is a big deal. Uh, and I didn’t put put in there with, uh, honoring her work for organizations and families, uh, by the council, general counsel of, uh, Canada, uh, in New York. That was cool. But emotional intelligence is a big part of your life as well. So again, I could go on and on, but that’s, that’s her resume, ladies and gentlemen. So, Karen, welcome uh, to the Circuit of Success.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: I’m glad.. I’m excited. to speak with you and all of your awesome listeners.  Brett Gilliland: Great. Well, if you can, I always ask a very big question first on all these episodes is what’s made you the woman you are today? Uh, to get you to where you don’t wake up and do all this stuff without a, without a backstory. So what is that? Dr. Karyn Gordon: The backstory? You know, that’s a great question. Um, if, for anybody who’ve seen my TED Talk, uh, it, I designed it specifically for families, teams, and schools. And in the TED Talk, I talk about, uh, it’s really the three mindsets of a leader, insecure, competent, arrogant. And in the talk TED Talk, I talk about being diagnosed with a learning disability when I was 13 years old and told by a clinical psychologist that I had a very severe learning disability and I’d be lucky to finish high school. And that was the story. That was kind of my own kind of, that’s my backstory on kind of when my leadership really started was really at a, at a crossroads and I had to make some very fundamental decisions at 13 years old around what I was gonna do with my life. And so, It was definitely, uh, that was kind of with when it started being a very stubborn, strong spirited kid, uh, having to fall badly, uh, having parents that really were amazing and letting me fall. And then finally at 14 years old, being willing to actually receive help. And so once I actually started receiving help, going for extra help, learning about my disability, all of a sudden I that, you know, I started to receive success and, um, and it was so, so I really, really believe that leadership, and this is for everybody listening, whether or not you’re a business owner, entrepreneur, professional, parent, whatever it is, I really believe that leadership is a mindset, not a position or a role. And you can actually start teaching that to children at a very, very young age. And so one of my biggest things when I’m speaking to parents, the importance about letting your kids fail and really trying to. Fundamental leadership skills at a very, very young age. Um, and so that’s part of the reason why I’m so passionate about this work is because, you know, there are so many things in life we cannot control. But if we can help ourselves and our teams and our kids focus on things that they can control and having that locus of control, all of a sudden, that’s really when success starts, uh, taking off however people define success. Um, but that’s really with what it starts, it starts leadership. Really just start with developing yourself. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I, I couldn’t agree more. And I, I think it’s always a question I like to ask, and usually later, but I’ll start with it now, is, and you just said it as, success is defined differently by everybody, right? I think in our modern world that we live in, and probably for generations success, I’m using air quotes. If you’re just listening it, it used to be defined as just money, right? Oh, this person, man or woman, makes a bunch of money. They’re successful. I’m in the money business. I work with money every day, all day. I own a wealth management firm. It’s what we do, but I personally define success for myself and for our clients as time with your family, right? your vacation planning, your, your, the books you’re reading, the people you’re surrounding yourself with. Money is certainly part of that, right?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Sure.  Brett Gilliland: but, how do you define success?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yeah, great question. So in my book, the three chairs, I talk about what I call the six piece of engagement. And it’s something that I. What I love doing is looking at data. I’m a data girl. I love numbers, love math, love good research. But what I do is I find patterns in the research because there’s a lot of stuff out there, but if you can kind of boil it down and kind of look for patterns. And so when I really started studying, uh, teams that were doing phenomenal, families that were doing phenomenal people that were doing phenomenal, I started to notice that there were six categories. That people we’re paying attention to. I called the six piece of engagement. I talked about ’em in my book, the three chairs. And you can actually literally do this, whether or not you are a parent, you have got teenagers, you’ve got teams who can do it right across the board. But the six categories are six areas that we all need to be paying attention to. So the first piece is purpose. We all need a sense of purpose. What drives us, uh, it comes with our values. How are we actually giving back? We’ve got professional goals and career goals. Um, School goals. Profit is the other piece. So that would be, you know, how do we manage our money? I did actually, you find this interesting, I did my doctorate in, uh, over indulgence for families and speak specifically on financial literacy and what happens when that skillset is not, when, when we don’t properly teach that to kids. So profit, really getting, getting really managing your money so your money does not manage you. Uh, physical health is another one. Play and people, so those are the six, the six piece. And this is an exercise I do as an individual. My husband and I and business partner do it every year. We get our teens or we’ve got twins that are 15 years old. We get them to do it every year. We get our team to do it. And you basically look at these six different categories and you start identifying your goals. I usually recommend one to two per category, and that becomes your roadmap for the year. Um, so that you. Proactive in terms of how you’re lead leading your life instead of reactive, which is what too often we actually see. And so I find all six of those categories are extremely important. And when I work with different leaders, depending on who they are, sometimes they may be like, gosh, you know what? This makes sense. I’m really focusing so much on the profit and the professional goals, but my physical health is totally off for my people and my wife. My marriage is totally off. And to be really successful, the way I look at it is you have to pay attention to all six. You have all six require time and energy and some intentionality. So to really, you know, it’s pausing. It takes 15 minutes, but just having that roadmap per day will be such a gift to yourself this next year. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And, and, and it’s amazing what you just said there, the six Ps I, I have what I call my f to the six power, right? It’s, it’s your faith, your family, your fitness, your fun, your firm, which for me is work. And then your finances. And so I agree because, um, you know, a lot of people talk about work life balance. I don’t know if there is balance, right? Mm-hmm. , because sometimes it’s gonna be a little bit better in this category and maybe it’s a little bit better in that category sometime, but I think as long as we don’t let it get too far away, I think that’s the value of journaling and the value of keeping score, all those things, right? That, that you have an integration. And because no matter what, if you and your spouse, uh, you know, this isn’t a spouse conversation, but if you guys got in a big fight this morning, it would certainly affect you on this podcast right now, right? Mm-hmm. your energy to be a little different, and I think we gotta, as people go through and score ourselves. So when you hear me say all that, would you agree with that? What are your thoughts on it?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Absolutely. I really believe in scoring everything. I, again, I love numbers, I love metrics. I think that way we can kind of sometimes take some of these le leadership and relationship topics and make it all of a sudden really concrete. And so, um, I actually believe very strongly on measuring things. I actually get people to measure in terms of the six piece of engagement. Um, I also get people to measure, we really focus on leadership, emotional intelligence. I could be able to measure their emotional intelligence, um, and how you can do that. We’ve gotta score a card for anybody listening. If you’re like, “Gosh, Karyn, that sounds interesting. How do I do that?”, Uh, you can go to our website, dkleadership.org. DK stands for Dr. Karen in Canada. Dot org is for-profit and non-profit. Uh, It’s very funny, whenever I talk to my American clients, they’re like, oh, dot org is like, charity in the states. I’m like, no. In Canada, it’s, it’s different.  Brett Gilliland: Oh, really? Yeah.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yeah. dkleadership.org. You can, you can go there, you can download a free leadership scorecard. And that is a really interesting way to kind of launch into this topic because you can measure your emotional intelligence. You can do it with for yourself, you can share it with your teen, your family, and by having something that is a nu that is measured. Then you kind of know what your baseline is. You can know here’s where I’m, we’re starting, here are the skills that I really wanna work on, and here’s the goal that I wanna achieve by the end of the year. And just having that gives you a, a plan. Cause otherwise everything feels too abstract and out there. So Absolutely. I, I agree with you that things need to be measured so we can kind of have a roadmap to, to make progress.  Brett Gilliland: So let’s, uh, talk about kids for a little bit. I think it’s important. I actually get some feedback in December, like, Hey, it’d be pretty cool with all these amazing people you talked to if, uh, you talked about parenting and some kids stuff. And so, so when you think about that, what, what are maybe the 1, 2, 3, whatever they are, uh, habits. Things that we need to be as a father of four boys, what do I need to be focused on to be the best dad I can possibly be? Or you know, somebody listening that’s the best mom they can possibly be.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Oh, so it’s such a good question. You know, my doctorate’s in marriage and family, so I’m a still registered therapist. I still practice, although very, very part-time. So I started my practice 25 years ago working as a family practitioner practitioner, uh, at a medical office with families and with teenagers in particular. And there’s certain kind of fundamental skills that are really, really important for parents to really focus in on. And if there was one skill that I would say, just focus on this one and everything else is gonna start falling into place, it’s confidence. Cuz when you actually start really building and developing your kids to be confident, everything else pulls out of that. So for example, again, the ‘TED Talk’, when I designed it, I specifically designed it so that parents could be on the sofa watching it with their kids. I had this vision of myself when I was speaking to the audience that parents or me sitting on their sofa watching this ‘TED Talk’ with their kids and to help facilitate that conversation, we designed discussion questions to do that. So again, you can go to our website, dkleadership.org and download those. And so for Mother’s Day, I actually had my own kids. I’ve got twins, they’re 15. I’m like, okay, I know what I want for my Mother’s Day gift. I want us to watch my TED talk together and do the (inaudible:discussion questions) together because it’s all about confidence. And when you see the three chairs and you actually understand how the three chairs actually work, and you can start talking about these three different mindsets of confidence, everything else falls into place. So that would be kind of number one to really kind of do, you know, really focus in on developing confidence that the ‘TED Talk’ is a great place to start with that.  The second skill to really, really focus in on is self-discipline. There’s been a ton of research. I talked with this in my book, the Three Chairs. There’s been a ton of research on if you can help kids develop self-discipline, which is the opposite of delay gratification. That is so correlated with overall happiness, wellbeing, and success, however you define it. Because when people have self-discipline, they are, they are the, they’re leading their own life. They’re not being reactive to their life. So really helping your kids develop a solid sense of self-discipline would be kind of my second. Um, and the third, honestly, I’d almost say if you can just focus on those two. Everything started, everything else starts falling into place because if you have confidence and you’ve got self-discipline, then everything else, it’s like a domino effect. Everything else starts falling into place, whether it’s with, with school or with academics or with physical health or with money. But if you’ve got confidence, self-discipline. You’re gonna be, you’re gonna be fine. However you kind of define in your life. Those would be the first, the top two. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That thoses are great. And I, I talk about attitude just decides where you go. Your discipline decides how fast you get there. Yes. And it’s so true with what you’re saying right here. So, and here’s my, my kind of, let’s have some fun with this, but, How in the hell do we work through these telephones? Right. So, you know, they can you watch Social Dilemma on Netflix if you haven’t watched it? They should. People should. But you, you watch it. It’s, it’s, they’re built to guide us, right? And, and attract us into those things and not leave. What, what have you done, uh, that maybe your kids liked or didn’t like, but maybe to control those cell phones? Dr. Karyn Gordon: So here’s how I see social media in all, really all technology. The way I describe it is my philosophy around it’s a tool and like all tools, uh, car driving is a car is a tool too, right? These are things that are there to help us. So if we can really. Always make sure what is the purpose and function of that tool and making sure that we have boundaries around that tool. That’s the biggest thing. So, you know that whether or not it’s with technology or video games or social media, all of it, you know what it really is, the purpose of it and then setting boundaries around it so that it doesn’t control the person. And so from a, uh, social media perspective, I just follow the research and the research basically says that anything over two hours of being entertained for children is gonna start affecting their learning. That came out of Columbia University and they just really found that, you know, video games, for example, are not, they’re not wrong. They’re not a problem. In fact, it’s very social. Okay. Actually, just last night, uh, we were encouraging one of our sons to, to maybe go, you know, they’ve got a, they’ve started business, they make their own money and one of them will actually wants to maybe kind of go and upgrade his computer so that he be more interactive with his friends, uh, with, with a video game. Great. He’s like, really? I’m like, sure. You’ve earned the money for the money. You’ve earned it, you’ve saved it, you’ve managed it, and now you’re actually gonna go buy some more technology to do something that’s social. We’re all in favor. And so we’re, we’re, so that is kind of a good example on how you can kind of partner with your kids. On something that’s really exciting for them, but you still put boundaries around it. So not just because he’s buying this computer does not mean that he’s gonna have access to it for eight hours, but still, his parents still put boundaries around it. You can have fun with your kids with this, you know, same thing with telephones. Parents often say to me, when should my kids get phones? And I think one of the best ways to do is let them pay for it. Let them earn it. And paid for it. Like you and I could talk for a whole session just about financial literacy. I’m very passionate about how do you financial literacy to kids. Brett Gilliland: Yep, yep.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: One of the biggest mistakes that I’m seeing with parents, but what we’re doing is we’re giving money. We’re not teaching them how to make it, how to save it, how to manage it. Giving money does not teach financial literacy. And so, so you can have fun, creative ways of saying, great, you want a phone? Perfect. How are you gonna earn that money? What’s, you know it’s gonna cost you $500,000. Here’s the monthly program. And all of a sudden now you’re partnering with your kids. It’s very perfect parents to partner with your kids, not to manage their kids. It’s. One of the big differences.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. When that’s that self-confidence and uh, and self-discipline, right? I mean, that’s it. And, and it’s, and it’s working right there. So, so do you actually have like, say the two hour boundary? Like if, once they’ve played, whether it’s, you know, whatever, what’s the TikTok or, uh, Fortnite or anything like that? So once they’ve kind of hit that limit, we’re out. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yeah, there is max two hours. In fact, we’ve actually just even talked about maybe actually reducing it down to an hour and a half, but that is at this. The other thing about self-discipline, I talk a lot in my book around the importance about a daily routine. When we talk about successful practices, successful habits, whether or not it’s a CEO that I’m coaching, or if it’s a 15 year old client, it doesn’t make any difference. It is really important that people are designing a successful daily routine with successful habits. And one of the things you wanna do, if the end goal is self-discipline, which I think everybody on the call would probably agree is a good thing, then you have to design your day to reinforce self-discipline. So how do you do that? So the one of the ways that, again, I do this with CEOs, I do this with, with my own kids, is you make sure that you get your work done first. You work first, you play second. Yeah. So in our home, they come home, they do their, you know, we have family dinners. They do their homework and then their rewardis if they want a game with their friends. Yeah. I’m totally believer I have no problem with that. They’ve worked hard. Now you get to treat yourself. Yeah. And, and but the difference between where a lot of people, the misstep is all sudden they come home and then they’re gaming. So they’re rewarding themselves before they work. That’s gonna re. Delayed gratification, which is the opposite with what we’re actually trying to do. So really important, we kind of figure out what’s the end game, what’s the, what’s the goal that we’re really trying to achieve as parents? And then you have a strategy plan in place, just like the same way you do with business. You apply the same principles actually to marriage and for fa, for for parenting.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love it. So I mean, think about it too, from a standpoint of even in their sleep, I mean, if they’re getting more than that, and if it’s leading up to bedtime, It’s gonna lead in, you know, worse sleep, and then that’s, that’s then the next day. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. Right. It’s, it’s so important and, and you’re right, we do it as a bus, we have a business plan, right? Some people have business plans. What’s your daily plan? What’s your family plan? Uh, those are important. So… Dr. Karyn Gordon: and what’s your married plan? You know, I work with, you know, our company. We work with companies in seven countries with 5,000 different leaders, every single different industry. And one of the things I love to do is teaching all these, uh, professionals and business leaders, That the skills that you learn in business and in entrepreneurship are the exact same skills you could actually apply to marriage and family. They’re the exact same. You know, I’ve been doing this work for 25 years. I fir, I started the first 10 years working just with marriages and families, and then I was asked by companies that responded from my work to transfer that doctorate in family systems into organizational systems. So I kind of did it backwards. I started with families. And then I started working with businesses. And when I started working with companies 15 years ago, I just kind of assumed incorrectly that a lot of business leaders would’ve applied the same business, best practice to their marriage and family. Brett Gilliland: …right.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: …and I was totally wrong and, and so it wasn’t until I started working a lot of these leaders, I’m like, well, you’ve got this strategy brain. Have you applied the same strategy? Brain? Brain to your marriage? No. I’m like, well, does it make that sense while your marriage is falling apart and there’s no connection, your kids don’t talk to you like you need plans without a plan. Things kind of start falling apart. And so the last, um, actually we’re launching, I was sharing with you just before we started, we’re launching a marriage mastermind for couples of business leaders to apply the same str because your marriages need a strategy plan. Just the way your businesses need a strategy plan. Your kids needs a strategy plan. And so when we’re talking about success and habits of success, that’s one of the most important things. Everything needs a plan. Otherwise, we’re very reactive and our culture is so fast, and everything’s moving at such a fast pace that without a very proactive plan. We’re reactive and then we pay the price for it. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. So let’s, let’s turn the page to IQ versus eq. I mean, obviously for years people have talked about your IQ, right? How intelligent are you? How much information can you process per second in your brain, right? The emotional side. Explain that to people. And how important is one over the other or one with the other?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Well, like I was sharing with you before I, my next, right after your podcast, I’m, I’m doing a keynote for an insurance company Exactly on this topic, so…  Brett Gilliland: Ah, there you go. We’re getting some practice in,  Dr. Karyn Gordon: …you’re getting, yeah, getting a little bit of practice, so, So, yes, for years people thought IQ was a thing to aim for, and your IQ really what it does, it tends to be more fixed. It tends to, it really, it’s like how many a’s did you get in school? It’s how you can memorize information, how you can recite information. Um, and so, and it’s important. Okay, so I still, I wanna emphasize it is still important. Education is still very important. I’m gonna always advocate for education for a lot of reasons, but what we found is that IQ was only part of the puzzle. There’s another part on EQ, which is called emotional intelligence. That we are found now is actually a better predictor on success consistently we actually find based on research. So again, IQ is still important, but what really is a, um, basically anywhere from the 80 to 90% of success, again, however you define it, is actually more determined based on EQ not IQ. So it’s, it’s, so we still wanna focus on the IQ, but we wanna pay more attention now to EQ. And so EQ, emotional intelligence are five core skills, all of which can be learned. And so one of the things that I found really exciting about the topic, um, is that unlike IQ, which tends to be more fixed, EQ is learned. You can learn emotional intelligence. So when I say to my clients or when I’m speaking at conferences, I’m like, who wants to be successful? And everybody’s hand goes up. I’m like, great. So, and I say, okay, you know, the secret for, for success is really emotional intelligence. So who can tell me with what it is? Most people have heard of it, but very, very few people can actually tell me with what it is. That’s where the gap is. The gap is, people have heard of it, but they don’t really know with what it is, and they don’t know how you can. To me, that’s foundational. And so that’s what we, as a company, that’s what we do. We teach what it is and we teach how you can build it and measure it. Um, and so it’s five core skills and everybody listening you can kind of think about this. Um, five core skills that measure your leadership. Emotional intelligence. So it’s stands for acronym C.A.R.D.S. So your communication skills, your attitude and goal setting skills. R stands for your relationship skills. D stands for your decision making, self-discipline and time management skills. And S stands for your stress and emotion management skills. So those are the five core skills, and again, on our website, we’ve got that scorecard that goes into way more detail and you can measure yourself. And you can start doing this when you’re eight years old. You don’t have to wait to be a senior, uh, senior leader at a company to start doing. No. You start developing this young, and as a parent, you start helping your kids develop these skills. This is gonna be the best predictor on how successful they’re gonna be, is how much they can develop these five core skills. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And those are com again, communication, uh, your attitude, relationships, discipline, and stress. I mean, that’s obviously the high level of those.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Exactly, yes.  Brett Gilliland: …and, and go to the, uh, dkleadership.org. Uh, for those, it’s on there slash connect, I believe.  Um, and you’ll find those. That’s awesome. Um, Let’s talk to about daily habits for the most successful people that you have the privilege to work with. But I would even, uh, drill down even more and say you, right, so you specifically, what are those daily habits that make you be the best leader, speaker, mom, wife, et cetera, that you can possibly be day in and day out. Dr. Karyn Gordon: It’s a great question. It’s funny, we just, we’re we’re, um, focusing on developing a whole bunch of video content and literally, I was filming this yesterday, so this is very top, this is very top of mind. So yeah, I really believe in that daily routine and really figuring out what those success principles are. So my daily routine is I, uh, um, the basically five 30, the alarm goes off. I get up, I do an hour in the morning on gre gratitudes prayer and meditation, and I watch that sun come up and nothing is more powerful for me than having that one hour of quiet with a cup of coffee. The whole house is still sleeping, and I just, I in the best version of myself, and so I had tested lots of different times. For me, that’s like the best time. Seven o’clock we have a barn on property and we as a family go up to the barn and we do circuit training. Um, this is a new habit we started, uh, this last year, which has been amazing. My husband actually suggested it, and so we all do circuit training together, which has been amazing. Kids go to school, and then I start up with clients and with our, uh, company at eight o’clock. And then generally I will work till four and then you shut it off. Uh, I’m really believe, I believe you focus on really high level what really has to kind of get done. And then you clear, you know, create really clear boundaries. So for four o’clock, uh, we stop working and then the rest of it is I’m making dinner. So my husband and I have done a good job in terms of division of labor. Uh, that’s a big issue with a lot of mar marriages. They don’t know how to divide labor, so, Uh, he does a ton, but one of my things is I do dinner, so, and I, and I actually love making dinner, so I’ll make a great dinner. We have family dinner, uh, kids do homework, uh, and then nine o’clock we do fireside chat. So again, a new habit we started, we put the fire on and uh, cuz again, we’re in Canada and we’ve built lots of snow. Yeah. So we fireside chat and we have a family connection, uh, for half an hour and then nine 30 to bed and 10 o’clock lights out.  Brett Gilliland: Bam! Dr. Karyn Gordon: So that’s the. Yeah, it is awesome. And so my husband and I also connect. We used to connect at nine o’clock. This is before we started doing the fireside chat. So now we’re actually connecting at about eight o’clock. We’ve had a hot tub, and that’s one of our favorite places to connect. So you kind of, you kind of get into this rhythm around how do you do, you know, personal time, business time, parenting time, husband time? It’s only, and everything needs, needs a time. Otherwise, what happens is, Spouses get the leftover energy, our kids get left.  Brett Gilliland: Right. Right.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: So, and, and if I’m speaking, if I’m traveling, it’s obviously gonna be different, but for, for as much as we can when I’m home, that is kind of the rhythm.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And so those fireside chats, I mean, that’s in a perfect world, obviously, you’d say seven days a week, but I mean, how often is that actually happening where everybody’s like, yeah, I, I want to come down and, and connect and be with the family and they’re all excited about it versus I’m a teenager. And, and I think I’m pretty lucky. I sent my sauna last night with my, uh, 17 year old for 25 minutes. So I mean, they’re, they’re good about doing that stuff, but at the same time, I mean, they’re, they’re kids, right? And they may not want to do that. So what’s that look like for you? Dr. Karyn Gordon: So for us, we do it about, we actually do it about five nights a week. Um Okay. But we live at the country, so we’re a little bit different, but it’s fireside with hot chocolate. I forgot to mention that one of the one little secrets with, with teenagers, especially teen boys, is food.  Brett Gilliland: Yes. Bribe with food. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Like some chips, popcorn. So for us that actually works. But we live in the country. It’s a little bit different. When we lived in this city that was not different cuz there was like a lot more extracurricular and all of that. So one of the things I encourage anybody listening is it’s really great to to get ideas and get inspired by other people’s stories and all that, but you gotta really personalize what’s realistic for you. Yeah. So for some of our clients, That’s not realistic. And so what’s more realistic is maybe they do it once a week and if it’s once a week, we do once a week and it’s pizza and fireside or, or kind of like, you know. So I think it’s great to have, um, examples, but, but really be realistic with what is gonna work with, you know, our own family culture. We’ve got some clients that, you know, they’re in hockey and it’s like insane schedules and so, you know, their hot chocolate connection is more in the car driving between events. So you wanna, you wanna have a framework, but be flexible and think about how that’s really great. That’s inspiring. How could that work for our family culture and be inspired? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think that goes back to the emotional intelligence, right? Is to not beat yourself, beat yourself up over it. Like, cuz I, in my twenties, my early thirties, I was like, oh, if I didn’t do this one thing five times a week, I was a failure. Yeah. And I was just so hard on myself, right? And I think that’s now looking back, hindsight, right? But now I see other people and they’re like, well, I’m gonna start, I, you get this new idea. I’m gonna start doing it six days a week. I’m like, so you really think you’re gonna go from zero to six versus let’s take that baby step. Let’s commit to two times a week, right? And that can happen now becomes a bigger habit. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Absolutely. And I talked about this in my book too, just the importance about how do you. How do you really build those five different skills? Especially when you’re, when you’re referencing the attitude and goal setting skill, one of the biggest things is people either don’t set the goal or they set it too high that it’s unrealistic and then they feel overwhelmed and they don’t start. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: So having that, that attitude, that mindset around stretching, but realistic. So if you’re not having any family connection, start with trying to do it once a week and then ask your kids to get the engagement. Ask your kids, I’d love to have a little bit more family connection. What could we do to make it more attractive? And so maybe it’s a pizza, maybe it’s like popcorn. Maybe it’s, you know, you’re going, like going up for dinner. Like talk with your kids. Really, you know, have that conversation because you don’t wanna be dragging your kids to do this. You wanna try to make it, um, more enjoyable, um, and get their input. They’ll tell you, I mean, this is the one wonderful thing about kids, teenagers. They’ll tell you if you ask and if you really explain why you’re wanting to do it, that you, they can really kind of get onboard for it.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. So when you hear me say Our, our firm’s mission, uh, is helping people achieve a future greater than your past. So again, doesn’t mean your past was terrible, but I think everybody wants to have a future greater than their past, right? So when you hear me say that, what comes to mind for you? H how would you methodically look at that and say, huh, I like that, but why?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yeah, I love that. Well, we’ve just come off of, you know, doing our six p strategy plan for the year, so this is very top of mind for us, but for, for me, um, as an individual, but also even as a business too, our whole thing is really having more global impact. And, um, you know, for, it was one of the reasons why I moved from family practice to more the leadership development to more, we have a whole, we have online courses that we teach. We work with companies all around the world now. . For us, it was really around how to reach more people, uh, how do we help more people? And so doing it in two different ways. One, uh, we’re gonna be amplifying a lot more on social media in terms of like people that just, you know, maybe they don’t have resources taken of our course they don’t have, but they really wanna learn. We wanna make sure that we’re serving those, we wanna make sure we’re serving and helping as many people as we possibly can. So for us it’s really amplifying our social media. And that’s why we’re doing a whole bunch of different videos and that, and then also offering more courses and that for our companies, but also their families. Um, I really believe in developing the whole leader. And when, I mean the whole leader, I mean the leader at work and the leader at home. Yeah. You know, sometimes people see great leaders in their company, but they’re really lousy leaders at home. Yeah. And we really believe in developing that whole leader and making sure that we’re serving them with whatever it is. So for me, it’s really amplifying those kind of two parts, uh, which we’re really excited about.  Brett Gilliland: So, um, talk about the risks that you’ve taken. I think as anybody that’s a business leader, we’ve all taken risks, we’ve bet on ourselves. Scary as hell. Right? But you still did it. What’s, what’s that risk that you took that, looking back now, you’re glad you took it? Dr. Karyn Gordon: Um, the first really big risk I took, well, I bought a cottage when I was 20 years old. Um, and uh, it was crazy. I always had this dream at 16 years old, I had a dream that I would have a cottage before I bought a house. And so I told my dad, and, you know, for a lot of people that, you know, they would say, well, that’s a crazy idea. But my dad was like, then start saving. Like, he was very practical about it. , I started saving, I had to pay for my, for my university and college as well. So I had three jobs and I was hustling and I saved a little bit of money and I, and this amazing opportunity came up. And at 20 years old, I bought this cottage for $17,000. And, uh, if you, if people go to my Instagram, you can actually see the before and after pictures. It’s hilarious. You’ll see me at 20 years old buying this cottage. And we ended up fixing it up and selling it. And it, not only did it, we sell it for an exorbitant amount more money than 17,000, but it made it, it was in a national magazine. We actually got into Canadian House and Home Magazine. Oh wow. Like literally picture. You can actually see the before and after pictures. But it, um, it was a massive risk because the land was, um, there was a lot of different issues around the land. There was a possibility I could, we could lose it in four years. And I remember at 20 years old, I was talking to my mom about it. And I had to make a decision really quickly because there was like a bidding war that was starting on it. And the way she, what she said to me, really spoke to me. She said, Karyn, she said, risk, go after with what you want, but don’t risk more than you’re willing to lose. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Dr. Karyn Gordon: …and I thought that was a really smart piece of advice so that I could put my little bit of money and pay for the $17,000 cottage, but am I gonna be okay if I lose it four years from now? Yeah. And I remember wrestling with that, and I’m like, is it worth the risk? Is it worth the risk? I’m, I’m putting everything I’ve got on this little thing. And I’m like, I’m, it is worth the risk. And I had to, because I mean, you’ve seen, I’m sure with a lot of your clients too, I’m all about risk taking, but there’s healthy risk taking.  Brett Gilliland: Sure. Dr. Karyn Gordon: And there’s unhealthy risk taking. And so when I teach my clients now, I, I encourage them, you know, go after the risk, but are you okay if you lose this risk? And don’t over risk, you know? And so I had to make that decision. It turned out to be a really wise choice and um, and that’s sort of a whole real estate business for us. Actually. That’s part of one of our, we do real estate.  Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Dr. Karyn Gordon: So, but it started 20 years old and, uh, and so I tell, you know, my team clients like start thinking about your goals and with what you want because it does start, you start planting those seeds um, when you’re teenagers.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Which is a big deal cuz it, I mean, before you know it, your, your ex age and it’s time flies, doesn’t it? Uh, it’s nuts. So what, you know, I, I spend a lot of time asking questions, right? So whether it’s to my clients, I’m asking questions all day long and then I, obviously, I host a podcast and then it’s what I do. I ask questions. But somebody asked me a question this morning and I thought it was a great question, I’m gonna start asking, and he said in 2023, Brett, what’s the one thing that you’ve gotta do to get out of your comfort zone? So I’ll ask you that question. What’s your one thing that you gotta do to get out of your comfort zone this year? Dr. Karyn Gordon: My one thing I would actually be really, um, really getting around the whole social media thing. It’s, you know, I’ve done traditional media for a long time. I, it’s very comfortable for me. I can do with my eyes closed, I’ve done it for 20 years. Social media’s a totally different thing and I, um, and I had to really kind of get my head around it. Um, so that for me is really stepping out of my comfort zone because you have to film it differently. You have to share different content. It’s a lot more vulnerable content. Like it, it really is a bit of a different beast than traditional television.  Brett Gilliland: Well, there’s no interaction, right? Dr. Karyn Gordon: It’s so different. And so I just, but because our purpose is to, to have a wider global, you know, really help more people and to have a more of a global impact. I know it’s the vehicle to do it, and so I just need, I just wanna do it. And so for me, that has been, that has been the part. So I got, you know, myself, a social media coach, kind of somebody to kind of help. And so, I’m just trying to apply the same things I did when I was 13 years old to my disability. I can’t do this, uh, right now because I don’t have the skills. I’m gonna find somebody who has the skills to teach me how to do it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Dr. Karyn Gordon: And so at nine years old, I’m gonna apply the same tools. Now I don’t have the skills. I’m gonna learn how to do the skills I, I’m gonna find myself as a coach to actually help me so that I can kind of master this because I know, I know it’s gonna take with where I wanna go. So that, for me, I think that’d be my, my, my goal. The biggest goal really for 2023.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I don’t want to gloss over that. Cause I think so many, anytime somebody talks about this on a podcast, I always stop because they just say it like it’s just normal. Because for you it is normal. But you said, I’m gonna hire a coach. And you said it twice, right? How many people listening to this right now want to do that thing? Whatever that thing is. If it’s social media, it’s, you know, jumping out of an airplane. Being a better speaker, whatever it may be. But we’re afraid to hire a coach, right? We’re afraid to put our money where our mouth is but that is, it’s been critically important for my success over my 21 years in business, is having a business coach. Mm-hmm. and personal coaches, right? Like all of those things is important and you’re doing that.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yes, it really is. You know, I’m all around efficiency and what’s, you know, what’s the goal and what’s gonna be the fastest way for me to get the goal? Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: For me, it, the fast way to get a goal is find somebody who’s who, who has, who knows what they’re talking about, that has already done it, and learn their best practices. Like I don’t need to fall over and over and over again. And that was my learning when I was 13 years old. I, I was so resistant to getting outside help. I was embarrassed. I was ashamed of it. And I realize if I don’t start putting up my hand and asking for help, I’m not gonna get what I, I’m not gonna get my goals. Like it was, it was very clear and I figure that out at 14 years old, so, so now I’m like really quick. I just, okay. I don’t know the skill. So changing the mindset to from, I can’t do this to, I don’t have the skill to do this. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: You know? And, and then who has that skill? And put your hand up and reach out and take action and take initiative and step on the gas. Don’t play the victim, step on the gas and take action and go and chase what you wanna chase, whatever success looks like for you. And life is full of incredible opportunities. Um, but we do need to put her hand up and step on the gas.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. So looking at, uh, your book here, ‘The Three Chairs’, um, talk about that for a second. Cause I know you got a, you got a bunch of people gonna be waiting on you here to give a, uh, keynote speech to, so we gotta get you going here, but talk about your book real quick. Work your people. Find it again. ‘Wall Street Journal’ Bestseller, ‘USA Today’, ‘Amazon’, I mean, just crushing it, right? So, uh, where do our listeners get it and what do you want them, what’s your goal for them to get from that book? Dr. Karyn Gordon: So, yeah, ‘The Three Chairs’ is a concept I created 25 years ago when actually I started working with teenagers, and then I realized how applicable it actually is to, to leaders. But it’s basically, it’s how leaders drive communication, performance, and engagement. It’s a business book, uh, but, I’d say 90% of it you can actually apply for parenting. So I’d encourage parents to actually get it as well. But talks about the three different attitudes that we all have. The insecure leader, the competent leader, the arrogant leader. And when you understand with what kind of leader or what attitude you actually have, it can actually, almost based on science, almost predict in terms of how you actually act out and live your life. And so the whole thing is around really focusing in on how do I become a confident person sitting in that middle chair? Um, and so it’s very, very simple. Watch the ‘TED Talk’. You’ll actually understand more. Uh, but the book is like a wonderful guide to kind of take you to that next level around like, let’s not be lazy about it. Let’s not play the victim. Let’s all learn how to become a confident person, cuz every one of us can do it. Yeah. Um, and so when it comes to the free workbook, so people can do it as a team, you can like do it as you know, if you’re your own leader, uh, the best place to buy it is ‘Amazon’. That’s fastest way. And so you can go to amazon.com, you can get it over or through our website as well. But it really is a very practical, all based on sciences, practical guide on how to develop confidence. And once you have that confidence, then it spills into everything else. The self-discipline, the emotion management, um, the goal setting, everything starts spilling over once we actually have that confident mindset.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. So last question, we’ll get you going. If you could grab Dr. Karyn Gordon, kind of by the shoulder, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago what, what would you tell that Karyn Gordon?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: What would I tell to my younger self, I would actually, I’d actually probably say get even more coaches. Actually I would, I always, I would have like one coach, but why not have like three or four, like if, you know, I think I was, I am actually a very cautious risk taker, very cautious risk taker, and people look at my life and they don’t, they can’t see that, but they don’t see all these other decisions I’ve actually had to make. So I’ve been very, very cautious. And I, I wish I had kind of gotten more coaches in different areas. Um, and so that would, that’s, that’s what I would tell my younger self. And so that’s why now I’ve got like three coaches. I’m like, let’s just like amplify the coaches and let’s get coaches for different reasons. Right? Like, let’s just amplify it. Life is short. We wanna make, you know, have a big impact, right? And so let, let’s get it, let, let, let’s get the work done and uh, and chase it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And you’ll learn to make the money to pay for the coach, right? I mean, that’s how it works.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Well, that’s exactly, you know, when you do, when you do this well then the money comes. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. That’s right. Well, awesome. I loved having you on the show, uh, Dr. Karyn Gordon. We will put the links to your website, your ‘TED Talk’ and uh, to your book, uh, in the show notes. Uh, it’ll be on YouTube and all the social media platforms. So look for it there and it’s been awesome having you on the ‘Circuit of Success’. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Awesome. Thanks so much. 

  Dr. Allison Brager is a neuroscientist, American soldier, and author of Meathead: Unraveling the Athletic Brain. As a neuroscientist specializing in sleep, she offers some insight into setting up a sleep schedule, and how consistency in sleep can affect our circadian rhythms. She illustrates the importance of circadian rhythms and relates that to habits that she has implemented in her own life that we all can easily apply to our own daily lives. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I have Dr. Allison Brager. Alison, how you doing?  Allison Brager: Oh, it’s great to be here.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. It’s good to be with you. You are, uh, out in Fort Bragg. So how’s everything going out there today as you’re an active American soldier? So thank you for your service. Brett Gilliland: We are very thankful for people like you. Uh, also a neuroscientist and author of ‘Meathead: Unraveling The Athletic Brain’. So we’ll dive into all that stuff, but how’s everything going out there at Fort Bragg today?  Allison Brager: Oh, it’s great. Uh, you know, back to the cold weather, I’ve been out traveling to our different schools, which are, uh, in more tropical places out in the, uh, desert of California and down in Key West. Allison Brager: So, uh, I I, I wouldn’t say it’s great to be back. But I’m, I’m surviving. Brett Gilliland: But you’re back. You’re back. Allison Brager: I’m back.  Brett Gilliland: Well, that’s good. Well, uh, if you could give us a little lay of the land, what’s made you, the woman you are today? I mean, there’s tons of stuff you’re doing. You know, obviously writing a book, uh, becoming a doctor of neurosciences uh, American Soldier, serving our country, uh, CrossFit, I mean, all the things that you’re doing out there. Brett Gilliland: Uh, maybe give us a little lay of the land on what made you the woman you are today.  Allison Brager: Yeah, so, I um didn’t grow up in the, the best city. Um, I grew up in Youngstown, Ohio. Okay. Which at the time growing up was, uh, the most dangerous city in the country. We had the highest murder rate per capita.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Allison Brager: Uh, so I always kind of knew early on that. Allison Brager: Being good at sports is my ticket out of town. There’s uh, quite a few prominent athletes and coaches who come from the area I grew up. Uh, so I sort of always made it my goal to be good at sports growing up just like everyone else I grew up with. Um, I also knew that getting a good education was important. Allison Brager: Uh, so that’s more or less what set my. I was fortunate enough to go to Brown University for undergrad. Um, it was there, I was competed in D one track and field. Um, but I also just fell in love with sleep research, uh, and I’ve always been a big fan of, uh, planning your career around your lifestyle and not your lifestyle around your career. Allison Brager: Um, and so I went along that path of staying dedicated to focusing on sleep research. And I’m lucky enough that I still get to live that life today. Uh, so I basically study sleep health across the entire army. Uh, military, bring new sleep solutions, problem sets to them. Um, and then of course, you know, being. Allison Brager: The army, I get to still be an athlete, uh, full-time because we’re, we’re always having to do physical training. So yeah, it’s been good.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome, awesome. And that’s where I, uh, came across you is through the ‘Whoop’ I wear the ‘Whoop, Whoop’ bracelet. You wear one as well. Uh, I heard you on that podcast. It was amazing. Brett Gilliland: I was like, I gotta have her on here. So let’s talk about that. Some of the things that you’re learning, not necessarily just from ‘Whoop’, this isn’t a ‘Whoop’, uh, uh, podcast, but if you can about the sleep and what you’re learning, cuz I know the Army has, uh, I think a relationship with ‘Whoop’, where a lot of the soldiers can wear those and, and understand their recovery, their strain. Brett Gilliland: Uh, all the stuff. If you haven’t ever listened or people listening to this, had never seen one, check it out at ‘Whoop’. Um, but tell us about that. So, I wanna start with circadian rhythms. Um,  Allison Brager: Sure. Brett Gilliland: People have heard that before, but let’s start with that and let’s maybe kind of set a baseline level of why the importance of that and what that is exactly. Allison Brager: Yeah. So, um, It, I’m really thankful for this ‘Whoop’ army collaboration because I think just having awareness over what your recovery is like and things in your life that impact recovery is most important. Um, so the reason why in the military sleep is such a challenge is because the circadian rhythms, uh, it’s not so much the sleep loss. Allison Brager: It’s the sleep loss at unanticipated times. Um, so circadian rhythms are these basic biological rhythms that pretty much tell us when to eat, sleep, train, and when we perform at our best. But, um, sometimes when you have sleep deprivation or you’re asked to do work, or you’re asked to train at a time you’re not normally conditioned to, it can really disrupt the entire system. Allison Brager: Uh, so that’s why it’s really important for the Army to invest in these platforms that give people awareness of what their recovery’s going to be like when they can’t be on their exact schedule, which, you know, ends up being a lot of our job.  Brett Gilliland: Sure, for sure. So, but talk about that. So those of us maybe that aren’t in the military, that are living a, a different life where we can kind of control our, you know, go to beds and, and get up and, and that’s the point of circadian rhythm, right? Brett Gilliland: The, the more close we can be to going to bed at the same time every night and going to get up at the same time every day, that’s healthier for us, right?  Allison Brager: Yep. Yeah. So these, um, these clocks thrive on consistency and the more consistent we are, um, the better it is.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So why, why is that, do you think?  Allison Brager: Oh, so… Brett Gilliland: What’s the science behind that? Allison Brager: Uh, yeah. Yeah. So what I should say is that there, these, um, Circadian rhythms are controlled by these biological clocks that basically determine when we eat, sleep, and train. So they are programmed to time. Um, and so when the time doesn’t line up, um, we have clocks in our fat cells, our muscle, our liver, our heart, our brain, pretty much every single tissue of the body have has these clocks. Allison Brager: And so when the clocks get disrupted because things in our life aren’t happening. at times they want ’em to then that’s when we get sick. That’s when we’re not gonna have like a great training session. That’s when we’re mentally gonna be in a fog. Um, that’s when all these things happen.  Brett Gilliland: And so you, knowing what you know, if you have the time when you can control, when you go to sleep and when you wake up, are you, are you pretty consistent with that? Brett Gilliland: Like seven days a week, is this something we need to be focusing on? Is it, you know, four days a week is good? Like what, what helps us?  Allison Brager: Uh, the more, the better because, , uh, our body sort of remembers when we’re good to ourselves and then when we aren’t so good to ourselves, we’re in a better position to adapt more quickly. Uh, it’s the same thing with sleep loss too. That’s why it’s good to like actually bank on sleep in anticipation of sleep deprivation is because it, um, it can protect us when we’re actually sleep, sleep deprived. And so it’s the, the same thing with these body clocks too, the less disruptive we are, uh, then when they are disrupted, they’re gonna be in a better position to be okay. , and recover from it quickly. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Allison Brager: And I know it’s, it’s all very abstract, but  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. But I think it’s important for our listeners that may not study this stuff or, or follow, or, or pay attention to it, is, is the key to this is at the end of the day, right, if, if your normal bedtime is, whatever, 10:30, I mean, you need to stay as consistent as you possibly can to get into bed at 10:30. Brett Gilliland: And if you get up at whatever, six o’clock in the morning, then you need to get up at six o’clock in the morning. So even when you don’t want to, Uh, I think that’s the importance to it. And I’ve also seen something, I had, uh, Sean Stevenson on, he’s a, uh, ‘Sleep Smarter’ is the book he wrote and he talked about… Allison Brager: Oh yeah,  Brett Gilliland: …he, yeah. Brett Gilliland: And the guy, I mean, it’s amazing. And, and so he used to live here in St. Louis. He’s out in California now, but doing amazing things. And, but anyway, he talks about even there’s a 90 minute clock, right? Every 90 minutes our body is cycling through. Um, through our sleep. And so, you know, sometimes when you wake up on your own and you’re wide awake and then you’re like, oh, I’ll, I’ll just go back to sleep cause I’ve got another 45 minutes. Brett Gilliland: Right, til’ your alarm goes off per se, but then you wake up in 45 minutes and then you’re exhausted. So yeah. What do you know about that and what can you share with our listeners there?  Allison Brager: Yeah, so that is exactly what it is, is, um, these sleep cycles, they, um, oscillate in 90 minute periods. Um, that’s why we say it’s better to wake up out of a dream than not out of a dream, because that is the last state of sleep of this 90 minute sleep cycle is we go from a state of restorative sleep called non rapid eye movement, sleep to REM sleep, which is the state of sleep we dream in. And so if you’re waking up out of a dream, it means you’ve completed a full sleep cycle. Um, but even throughout our day too, this is, you know, sort of my theory about why the Pomodoro Technique. Have you talked at all on the show about the Pomodoro Technique? Allison Brager: About how we can only… Brett Gilliland: no… Allison Brager: …you know, focus for like 15- 20 minutes at a time before we need a break and then after…  Brett Gilliland: No, I would love to hear more of it. Allison Brager: Okay. Yeah. So this is, um, a pro productivity technique. It’s often used in the European workforce, and I’m a big proponent of it, and I feel like we should all be doing that. Allison Brager: Um, but basically when you look at human attention, uh, we’re only able to attend to things for about 15 minutes at a time. Um, and so fa past 15 minutes, that’s when there’s an increased risk for errors and, um, just lack of focus taking place. Um, so the idea is that every 15 minutes you should take a, like intentional three to five minute break and then resume work. Allison Brager: And then after about 90 minutes of doing, uh, basically four of these Pomodoro cycles, then um, you should take like an hour or an hour and a half break from whatever intense work you’re, you’re doing. Brett Gilliland: Wow. That’s crazy. So, so human, uh, attention lasts about 15 minutes. Yeah. Mine lasts about five seconds sometimes, I think, but… Allison Brager: Well, they say, I mean, the studies now, you know, with, with the, uh, integration of smartphones, uh, within kids now, you know, we didn’t, I didn’t have a smartphone until I was well into my thirties, but like now that kids are getting smartphones as young as five, they say that the average human attention span is like six minutes. Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Allison Brager: So… Brett Gilliland: That’s not good. So let’s. So while we’re on the sleep topic, let’s any, any other kind of sleep hacks or anything that you can think of that, that would help us on how to get prepared for better sleep or to have more of the deep sleep that you talked about? Like how, how do we do that? Allison Brager: So I think the two biggest things is um, first off, setting a sleep routine, um, it sounds so simple, but having something where 60 minutes before bed, you’re putting away your work, um, you’re not setting yourself up for a situation where you’re gonna have additional stress, um, and actually dimming the lights in your house. So, uh, there’s this phenomenon called “dilmo” or ‘dim light melatonin onset’. Allison Brager: Uh, basically being in the presence of dim light causes the release and production of melatonin from your brain. And melatonin is of course, a hormone that helps you fall asleep and stay asleep. Uh, so if you’re able to dim the lights in your house, you’re actually setting yourself up for a position to get better sleep because you’re augmenting your internal release of melatonin. Allison Brager: Um, and I should say and clarify that people who take melatonin supplements, it’s actually more of a placebo effect than an actual physiological effect. Like it cannot mirror or mimic the internal production and release of melatonin. It is just such a strong biological response that no pill can ma can mirror it. Allison Brager: Um, so. You know, I say all that because I know a lot of people do take melatonin. Yeah. Melatonin before they sleep at night. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I’ve never done that, thankfully. But, uh, I’ve heard the same thing. And also I’ve heard about, you know, getting up in the morning, first thing, like first 15, 20 minutes looking directly at the sun… Allison Brager: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: We’re blessed with the sun being out. Like that helps as well. Right. So talk about that.  Allison Brager: Yeah. , um, these biological clocks I talked about earlier, they’re, of all the things they’re most sensitive to, the thing they’re sensitive to the most is light. And when it’s light out, if you remind these clocks that it’s light out, then they will keep, you know, putting together resources and keep functioning like they normally will during light. Allison Brager: Um, so when you wake up in the morning and you expose these clocks to natural light, it’s a wonderful signal to your body and all the physiological processes that will result from it, um, to be awake and to stay awake. Uh, and you’re less likely to have daytime sleepiness. Uh, you know, obviously our attention and our levels of fatigue change throughout the day. Allison Brager: Uh, but an easy way to, to, um, overcome that is actually just going outside and, you know, spending three, five minutes outside every day. That’s all we need. We don’t need caffeine. I mean, I, I love caffeine. Don’t get me wrong, but, uh,  Brett Gilliland: That’s not the answer though, is it?  Allison Brager: …it’s, it’s not always… Brett Gilliland: What if I’m looking through my window, is that okay? Or do I need to actually go outside and have nothing between me and the sun? Allison Brager: No, windows are okay. I just, um, you know, natural light is always better than artificial light.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that’s a big deal too. And I also wear blue light blocking glasses at night, you know? So what are your thoughts on those? Allison Brager: Those are great. Um, but I still think the 60 minute rule before bedtime applies. Um, I think people should wear blue light blocking glasses after dinner and continue to wear them until about 60 minutes before bed and then take them off.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. That’s, that’s interesting. So that’s good to hear. So I, I do, I put ’em on probably around, you know, 7:30, 8 o’clock, something like that. And then, uh, but I, I wear ’em right before I go to bed, so I need to take those off, get rid of my screen. I’m trying to figure out a way to where I can, uh, Put that thing in another, those of you listening, I’m looking at my phone, put it in another room. I need to put that in another room. Cause I always hear that’s not great for sleep either, right? Brett Gilliland: Cause I go to bed if I’m looking at something, I try to not look at social media and all that stuff. Last thing before I go to bed, I definitely don’t wanna check emails. Um, but it’s just sometimes it’s, you know, it just gets to you, right?  Allison Brager: Oh no, absolutely. Um, I mean, that’s definitely another hack too, is it, there’s something about the psychology of sleep. So putting away all electronics and keeping them in a other room, it definitely helps. I I do that. I keep my, um, phone in the kitchen.  Brett Gilliland: I like it. I like it. So let’s talk about, uh, exercise. So obviously sleep, we, we, and everything we’re gonna talk about today is, is, people know this, but I think to your point earlier, is having a plan before bed, right? A 60 minute plan.  Allison Brager: Yep.  Brett Gilliland: It’s no different than you’re planning with the military leaders. Right? You have a plan. When we go to war, we have a plan. When we do this, we have a plan. When I work with my clients, we have a plan, right? So what’s the plan for sleep? But then now what’s the plan for exercise? So can you kind of give us two or three things that you think are crucially, critically important for us, for, uh, for our fitness? Allison Brager: Yeah. So first you gotta figure out what kind of person you are, if you work better in the evening or in the morning. I am a morning, I, I am not a morning person. Um, I quite honestly, I probably won’t go very far up the military chain in terms of like, Uh, you know, being a general or anything, because I am not a morning person. I am an evening person. I have the genetics of an evening person and I know that.  Allison Brager: Um, so I work out best and I perform my best in the evening. So if you’re going for a performance metrics like. You have to know yourself if you’re a morning person or an evening person, and you know, we kind of, in order to figure that out, sure, you could take a clinical questionnaire, but really just you have to do some reflection and think about times of your life or day where you did the best on a college exam or you did the best when you were competing, when you were an athlete at one point in your life. Allison Brager: Um, I think we all kind of know who we are. Uh, and then the second thing is, um, if you aren’t working out within this period of time, just know that you probably aren’t gonna perform at your best. Um, the other thing too is, . So these biological clocks I talked about, they do latch onto exercise. So if you keep your workout schedule very consistent, you’re more likely to set yourself up for gains, like in terms of muscle mass endurance, whatever your end exercise goal is, because your body is going to start leveraging resources around that time of exercise, knowing that it’s going to exercise around that time. Brett Gilliland: Interesting. Yeah, so I, I agree. I’m a, I’m a night person too, but, um, I’ve also found that, you know, with four kids and a busy schedule and their, their sports and stuff, I find that if I don’t get it done in the morning, I’m, I’m probably not gonna get it done. Right. It’s rare that I can come home at five o’clock at night and then have, you know, 45 minutes to do a nice workout. It just, it’s hard to do, right? Allison Brager: Yeah, right. Brett Gilliland: So I think accountability is important to that, uh, as well.  Allison Brager: Yes. Oh yeah, for sure. And you know, that’s why things like the ‘Whoop’ are so great because it’s, I mean, it’s right there attached you, it’s gonna hold you accountable. And, it’s going to send notifications too.  Brett Gilliland: Right. Yeah. I get mad at my phone… Brett Gilliland: yeah. That’s why I say I get mad and I look down at at night and it’s like, you know, for. You know, best recovery you need to get to bed. I’m like, ah, crap. I’m not even more close to getting to bed, you know, but, but it’s telling me I need to go to bed. So, um, so that’s great. So when you, when you think about, you know, again, fitness, um, I know you do CrossFit and you were an elite athlete at track and field, obviously in college. Brett Gilliland: What do you think about from cardio versus strength versus, um, you know, like mobility, flexibility, h how do we, what’s your doctor brain tell us on that one? Allison Brager: Um, so, believe it or not, there is research looking at when we do our best cardio and when we are the best at strength. Uh, we do our best cardio in the morning, and it’s mostly just because, uh, our body does a really good job of, um, starting to release a lot of fats, and like a lot of, uh, glucose and breaking down glycogen, which are all important for endurance and, uh, moderate intensity exercise. Allison Brager: Uh, when it comes to strength, our, um, bodies usually leverage all those resources that make us good strength athletes at night. Uh, so they’ve done all these studies with power lifters, both recreational and Olympic power lifters, and they’ve found that in both cases, people weightlift better in the evening, unless in the morning they’re given caffeine. Allison Brager: So in the absence of caffeine, we lift best in the evening, but with caffeine, our morning strength levels can match those at night.  Brett Gilliland: And so how far from doing that at night to going to sleep? Because I, I’ve also found like if I do do a later night workout, then it’s, I’m up, I’m kind of on, you know, I’m wired and so I can’t just go right upstairs and go to bed. Allison Brager: Yeah, so at least two or three hours. Um, so part of the reason why it’s hard to fall asleep after you exercise so close to bed is because, um, our core body temperature goes up and the amount of sleep we have is dependent on our core body temperature. Um, our quality of sleep is also dependent on it. So, you really have to give at least two hours for your core body temperature to get back down in order to be able to get good sleep after working out.  Allison Brager: Um, and then obviously with caffeine know that there’s like an eight to 10 hour rule. Um, so caffeine has a halflife of depending on who you are, like four to eight hours, which means it can be in your system for as long as eight, or for as short as eight in as long as 16 hours. Allison Brager: So you have to consider that as well, yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So people that are slamming sodas at night, you know, before they go to bed or with dinner or something, that’s, that’s gonna be in your system, gonna affect your sleep.  Allison Brager: Oh yeah, for sure.  Brett Gilliland: Man. Just little things, right? I mean, just baby choices every, every day, every little choice. Brett Gilliland: It’s what’s, what’s, I’m fascinated by it because it’s just like work. It’s your mindset, it’s whatever it may be. It’s these little choices compounded day in and day out. Uh, what makes a difference for us. And so, have you seen the, uh, the show ‘Limitless’, um, on Disney?  Allison Brager: I have.  Brett Gilliland: Hey, is that not incredible?  Allison Brager: Yeah, no, it’s, uh, I, I love that this stuff is out there cause like, we’ve been doing this research for a long time and it’s, it, it’s really super helpful when, uh, you know, TV producers and, and Hollywood takes notice of it. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. So those that haven’t seen it, and, uh, especially if you have kids, you got Disney plus, just check it out. It’s Chris Hemsworth, the actor follows him through. You know, kind of meditation through cold therapy, through hot therapy, through your mindset, through taking risk, uh, memory. It’s all sorts of stuff. Brett Gilliland: It’s like a what, six part episode, I think is what it was. And it’s, it’s incredible. It’s incredible. So while we’re on that hot therapy, i.e sauna, cold Therapy, what are your thoughts on that?  Allison Brager: Oh, all wonderful too. So they definitely can help sleep. Um, very different means, but both very helpful. Uh, a few years ago we actually did a longitudinal study looking at cryotherapy. Allison Brager: Uh, so you know, cryotherapy is you go into this chamber and for three minutes, your body basically feels like it’s dying. Yeah. You know, you, you’re blasted with, uh, gaseous nitrogen that cools your skin. Um, but that three minutes of… Brett Gilliland: I literally thought I was going to die for the first minute. .  Allison Brager: Yeah, exactly. Allison Brager: And then you It’s brutal. Un yeah. Uncontrollably shivering. Um, . But the thing is, is if you, if you look at sleep directly after a cryotherapy session, and so we did this over months where we are looking at nighttime sleep on days of cryotherapy in elite athletes, um, we found an increase in sleep amount and sleep quality, uh, reported in these athletes. Allison Brager: Uh, but it’s the same thing with sauna sessions too. This like bolus of stress through, um,increasing the, the stress arm of the, the nervous system, uh, leads to a compensatory response of relaxation, which can improve sleep.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I do a sauna session about, I dunno, five times a week. It’s, it’s incredible. I, and in just the sweating, the pure amount of sweat and then, you know, I watch my heart rate and my ‘Whoop’. as it continues to climb, right? It’s like, I’m just sitting there. I’m not doing anything. I’m, I’m trying to breathe and relax and it’s like, it continues to climb, which I think from a cardiovascular standpoint, that’s gotta be pretty good too for me. Allison Brager: Oh no, absolutely. Yeah, I think, um, you know, I think this type of training is getting more popular that we call it zone zone two training, cuz that’s pretty much what it is as increasing your heart rate within, um, you know, 60 to 70% of your max heart rate for an hour, two hours at a time. I mean, that’s really the key to longevity and fitness. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Allison Brager: …is doing, um, you know, exposing your body to, to things like that, and heat therapy is very much part of that.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I also thought I was gonna die in my cold tub this morning. It’s just brutal. Do you do that very often? What’s that? Allison Brager: Oh, in St. Louis. I can only imagine.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s brutal. Uh, thankfully it’s inside, right? Brett Gilliland: I just, it’s inside. I’m not going outside, but it’s still brutal. And it’s, it’s every time I do it, I’m like, I don’t wanna do it at all.  Allison Brager: Yeah. Uh, yeah, I do do cold therapy. So that’s the thing about where I work. I work for Special Forces, so we have, um, pretty much these high performance training facilities that are modeled off of what the NFL teams have. Allison Brager: So yeah, I do all that stuff. I’m very, I’m very fortunate in that I have access to it.  Brett Gilliland: Yes. Yeah. And are you better at it the longer you do it? Am I gonna get better at this or is it suck every time still?  Allison Brager: Yes, oh, you will. I mean, yes. You, you definitely like, that’s the beauty of bodies is we acclimate to whatever stress we continually expose ourselves to, whether it’s harmful or good stress. Allison Brager: Yeah. Uh, so you will acclimate.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That might be the one thing that I do of, uh, everything you can do in your life. It’s, it is the one thing that I think, I actually feel different coming out of that. I mean, like, like literally feel different.  Allison Brager: Yeah. It’s, uh, you know, but there’s so much research now around it too, and it makes perfect sense because, uh, if you’ve seen those studies by Whimhoff, like you voluntarily pretty much gain control of this area of your nervous system. Allison Brager: That’s usually an involuntary uh, system. So people who constantly do cold immersion therapy end up getting sick less too, because there’s this link that we know now between that and the immune system.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, and it’s funny, when I see my heart rate on in the sauna session this morning, it’s going up and then I look at my heart rate on the cold therapy and it spikes really high. Brett Gilliland: And then, as you know, you can start to control your breathing and, and watching that thing go down. It, it’s, it’s incre. I, i it’s just assumed by enough people that  Brett Gilliland: I, you know, study and follow that it’s happening. It, it, this is just absolutely top-notch stuff for your body and for all of us. They’re listening to this right? Allison Brager: Oh no. Absolutely.  Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about the, the mental side. You know, there’s so much people talk about now this mental health, um, that’s out there. And I use air quotes because like, what does that really mean, right? Like, what is mental health? What are we doing? How are we taking care of ourselves? And I know right now you wrote the first edition of the NCAA Student Athlete Mental Health Handbook. Brett Gilliland: That mean that’s incredible, man, whether it’s our military, our college students, high school students, athletes, the, the world. We need to be talking more about this mental health stuff. So share with us about this handbook and what can we be doing, uh, to make sure we’re in our, in optimal performance of our mental health. Allison Brager: Yeah, sure. So, um, this task force is still ongoing. It’s through the NCAA, it’s basically representatives from each of the, um, research societies involved with mental health. Um, and it’s a huge problem across the NCAA because athletes are about three times more likely to have mental health issues than their non-athlete peers. Allison Brager: Um, the reason why mental health has become of increasing concern in recent years, is because, you know, if you think about life now, it’s certainly a lot more overwhelming than it was 20 years ago. And a lot of that has to do with technology, right? It’s easy to access someone within any given space or time or know where somebody is. Allison Brager: And so I, I don’t think our brains like, have evolved at the speed at which technology has, like that’s one of the prevailing theories about why there’s increasing mental health concernsis our brains still, like they’re very adaptive, but they still live in a pre-technology world. And so we’re at this point now where technology continues to make our lives easier and more productive.  Allison Brager: But at the cost of us having increased anxiety, um, increased, you know, feelings of like fomo, right? Fear of missing out. Yeah. Like that was never a term a decade ago. Um, and so what this task force really tries to do is to. Find ways for athletes in particular to disconnect. Like how throughout the day can you just intentionally just focus on school, focus on sport, not worry about any sort of performance anxiety around the sport. Allison Brager: And then also like establish meaningful community. So, um, having a sense of community and having a tribe of people where you feel like a member of, uh, can really improve one’s mental health. Um, you know, I think that’s the beauty of the ‘Whoop’, right? Is because we all have these groups, right? And like at the end of the work week, I look forward to, um, you know, seeing if I had the highest sleep score, highest recovery score of this group I’m on. Allison Brager: Um, and, you know, we like talk crap to each other about if, if somebody didn’t sleep. But it’s just like the other people they connect you with on the platform. I think, uh, you know, something like that has probably increased mental health because of this sense of belongingness.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And, and so what, what is it like, do you have times in your day where you don’t use your cell phone or you putting it away? Brett Gilliland: I mean, obviously the, the depth of knowledge that you have on this is greater than, than  Brett Gilliland: I have and probably will ever. Um, but like what, and I don’t necessarily like the words life hacks, but I think people understand that. And so what life hacks, if you will, would you have around technology or making sure we’re in that, that mental peak performance? Allison Brager: Yeah, so, uh, I, I think I have very intentional habits about when I do and don’t use my cell phone. Um, well first off, my job makes it easy. I don’t have a cell phone cuz I work in a secure building. So, yeah. Uh, for nine hours a day, the only way people can reach me is through my desk phone or through email. Allison Brager: But even that, I check sparingly. Uh, but e even if you didn’t have a job like mine, I think you need to find times where you just intentionally need to leave your phone somewhere and just be okay with it. Um, so with me, for example, I do CrossFit and every time I go to the gym, I literally just leave my phone in the car. Allison Brager: Like that’s, and, and CrossFit is my hour to an hour and a half a day where I can be fully present, not distracted, and just connect with the community. Now, like if we’re going for, if I’m going for a PR or something in the gym, like I might go out and grab my phone, but most of the time I just have the coach record it and then that’s it. Allison Brager: Um, Drive to work, right? Like so much of us spend so much of the day in the car and I know a lot of people listen to podcasts and all that. Um, but you can also listen to those podcasts or I listen to music cuz I’m a big music aficionado. Um, I’ll put my phone on airplane mode and just have like the podcasts or the playlist pre downloaded and just do that. Allison Brager: And then at night too, like I intentionally put my phone away and then I don’t pick it up. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome. Takes a lot of discipline, doesn’t it?  Allison Brager: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that’s what it is. It’s discipline.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Anything, so you logging your workouts or is it, uh, does your ‘Whoop’ know you’re already working out? You do your CrossFit or you just not worry about logging it?  Allison Brager: Uh, I don’t log my workouts anymore. I’ve been doing CrossFit now almost 13 years. So like, you know, I used to keep a journal and all that. But now I’m just, My ‘Whoop’ knows everything.  Brett Gilliland: Exactly. They know what the hell you’re doing. Uh, talk to us about your book ‘Meathead: Unraveling the Athletic Brain’. Tell us that.  Allison Brager: Yeah, so I, um, I wrote this actually almost a decade ago, so, um, but it’s still very relevant and timely. Yeah. Uh, so I used to teach a neuroscience course when I was, uh, sleep research fellow in Atlanta, and I realized that so much of the neuroscience course did not blend together exercise with neuroscience when so much of exercise like 90% of exercise is not about muscle recruitment and activation, it’s about recruiting different brain areas involved with timing and decision making and situational awareness and like leveraging the resources to do so. Um, and so I just started looking into the literature and sure enough there’s like very little out there. Allison Brager: So I wrote a, it’s more or less like a textbook on the neuroscience of exercise but digestible for anyone. So, um, it blends my own personal experiences as an athlete. I was fortunate enough to compete twice in the CrossFit games. Um, I was on the Army’s CrossFit team, which is part of the Army has this world class athlete program, uh, where they have, uh, Olympic and professional athletes compete full-time in the army. Allison Brager: Uh, so I did that and so I tried to like blend my own, you know elite athletic experiences with what we know research wise. And so, uh, yeah, that, that, that is my book. It’s called ‘Meathead: Unraveling the Athletic Brain’. Brett Gilliland: I’m having the, speaking of the CrossFit games, I think it’s in, uh, second week of January. Rich Froning. Are you familiar with Rich?  Allison Brager: Of course. I’ve actually trained with him a few times at his barn because, uh, the Army, we actually, when the team was around, we actually had a, um, nice little collaboration with Mayhem Athlete. Brett Gilliland: Okay. And he’s kinda like the Michael Jordan of CrossFit games, is that what I hear? Allison Brager: He is, yeah. I mean, I know Matt Frazier has won more than Rich.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Allison Brager: But Rich Is, rich is an og. He’s been in it since the very beginning when it was just crossfit.com and there weren’t all these programs around. I mean, not to like discredit the wonderful athletic, athleticism of Matt Frazier, but I would consider Rich the, the Michael Jordan of CrossFit. Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Like the debates, right? Is it Michael Jordan or LeBron? Is it Lionel Messey or Pele? You know, who knows, right? Uh,  Allison Brager: Yeah, exactly.  Brett Gilliland: Well, uh, so where else can our listeners find more of your stuff?  Brett Gilliland: Um, uh, so do you have a website or is it uh, more through social media?  Allison Brager: Yeah, more through social media. Allison Brager: So, um, yeah, my job makes it a little complicatedto have a website. Um, Yeah, so DOCJOCKZZZ, that’s my personal Instagram. D O C J O C K Z Z Z. Um, and yeah, just reach out and I’ll, you know, reach out to a question. I usually post up and coming research.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s incredible. So last question for you here, Alison, is if, uh, if you had to talk about any of the, maybe any of the failures you’ve had in your life, um, if there are some, I’m sure there are. Brett Gilliland: Um, what, what have you learned from those failures and what advice would you give to our listeners right now that may be going through something that’s tough?  Allison Brager: Sure. Um, one of my favorite quotes is “Trust the process and be patient.” Um, So I could give a recent example or do you want me to go way back in time? Brett Gilliland: No, whatever. Whatever’s a recent example’s. Great. Cuz you probably, it’s uh, it’s recent, so it’s very fresh in the mind.  Allison Brager: Okay, so, um, this isn’t on my LinkedIn bio, but my end goal is to be an astronaut and I made it through the second, I make it, made it to the second final round of selection for the last astronaut class. Allison Brager: Um, obviously I didn’t make it to the final round and get selected. Uh, so I’ve, you know, I’ve done a lot of things reflection personally and professionally to like figure out how I can make it to the last round. Um, and, uh, you know, that the thing, trust the process and be patient came to mind because, uh, I learned when I was at NASA interviewing and going through a selection there that a lot of the astronauts took like two or three times to get selected and they only have a selection process every four years. So like most of those people, most of the astronauts who are up in space right now are awaiting training, um, have been in the pipeline just trying to get selected for at least a decade. Um, and some of them will go through the pipeline and maybe, you know, don’t have what it takes to be up in space and, um, just go through training. Allison Brager: That’s, that’s all they didn’t do. They might not actually go on a mission. I know there’s this one Canadian astronaut, he’s still waiting to go on a mission and he’s been an astronaut for over a decade.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Allison Brager: Um, so, so that’s my thing is to just, you know, trust the process and be patient and, you know, eventually good things happen to, to people who work hard. Um, so yeah, that’s my recent example.  Brett Gilliland: I love that. Allison Brager: I can reapply in 2024. So… Brett Gilliland: Okay. That’s what I was gonna ask. So then what did you, what have you learned from that? When they tell you no or however that form of, of communication is? Like, do they tell you, here are the things you’re lacking on, or Here, here’s a, an opportunity for you. How does that look?  Allison Brager: No. So that’s the funny thing. They don’t really give you… unless you’re medically disqualified or like psychologically unfit, cuz that’s a lot of the selection. They don’t really give you feedback. Um, I mean, most of the things are, you know, related to public speaking, like having more confidence. Allison Brager: But in terms of what you do, you just have to trust that if you keep going after. High level challenging problems that eventually you could get selected, but you also have to, you know, go in with the mindset that you might not get selected. But I mean, truly at the end of today, like what I’ve learned from it, even if I don’t say make it through as far as I did the next time, is I met 120 great Americans who, like I have connections with the rest of my life. Allison Brager: Like we still all talk all the time. Um, you know, we wish each other happy birthday or if we’re in certain areas of the country, like I meet up with them, I tru truly just have access to 120 Great Americans. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Who are still doing amazing work at whatever their day job is, just like your day job. Right? Allison Brager: Yep.  Brett Gilliland: And, and it’s, uh, it’s incredible out there. So. Well, Alison, thanks so much for being on the ‘Circuit of Success’. It’s been awesome having you. I appreciate you coming out of your, uh, secure building in there and, and getting your Jeep and, and spending some time with us today. It was really awesome to have you and, uh, And best of luck and, and you know, one day we’ll have you back on when you’re an astronaut. How’s that sound? Allison Brager: Yeah, exactly. When, when I’m, when I’m headed, uh, to Mars.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right.  Allison Brager: I’m the, the, the two-way and not the one way mission, but… Brett Gilliland: Yes. That’s right. You’re coming back. Going to and coming back. That will be good. We’ll have you on before and after, so. Well, thanks so much for the time today, Allison. It’s been awesome having you.  Allison Brager: Sure, absolutely. Thank you so much for your time too.  

Kelley Tyan’s book and podcast, both titled, ‘Addicted to the Climb’, inspires, empowers, and encourages you to keep on climbing no matter what mountains you face. Her success as a faith-based entrepreneur, author, coach and mother have given Kelley a well-versed knowledge of the importance in setting intentional time alone, and with family and significant others. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland, and today I’ve got Kelly Tyan with me. Kelly, how you doing?  Kelley Tyan: I’m doing great. How are you, Brett?  Brett Gilliland: I am doing well. It’s good to be with you. It’s a little gloomy and rainy here. It feels like it’s been foggy for like a month. It’s, it’s not really been, but it feels like it. How’s the weather out in Boston? Kelley Tyan: It’s freezing. However, we have sunshine today, which is a plus.  Brett Gilliland: Oh, it’s beautiful. We have not seen that for a while and it’s supposed, are you guys gonna get the snow that’s coming in? Supposedly?  Kelley Tyan: I’m not sure.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Kelley Tyan: We just got our first snow on Sunday, which is always fun. And until it turns, you know, brown and muddy .  Brett Gilliland: Exactly. You gotta run the car through it.  Kelley Tyan: Yes, yes, but I would love to have a white Christmas. That would be amazing. Brett Gilliland: That would be amazing. Well, some fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. So you are a leading faith-based entrepreneur, a coach, a speaker, an author. A, uh, podcaster, which is awesome. You and I have something in common there. Um, and so, uh, and your book and your podcast is called ‘Addicted to the Climb’, uh, which is a faith fuel movement that, uh, that inspires, empowers and creates courage to keep on climbing no matter what mountains you face. I love hearing that. And that’s when we were connected through LinkedIn. Uh, I saw that. I’m like, we gotta get her on the podcast. And, and here we are. So, but if you can tell us a little bit about yourself, Kelly, kinda what’s made you the woman you are today.  Kelley Tyan: Well, thank you so much for having me again, and what made me, what makes me the woman I am today is just everything that I’ve been through in life. I’m a breast cancer survivor. I’ve been through grief. I lost my mom. I was an only child. Um, my dad had a rare blood cancer, so all the trials and hardships I’ve been through made me realize I am on the climb. I’m not going backwards. I [00:02:00] wanna keep moving forward and how can I help others and take them along with me? If I can get through these things, you certainly can too. I’m no different than you. And um, so that’s what really my messaging is all about. And that’s really the woman I am today. It’s really through everything we go through is, I say at first it might have broke me, but then it built me.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Kelley Tyan: If you believe that. And so, I believe that, and I wanna keep climbing no matter what I face. There’s no giving up.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What, how old were you when your mom passed? Kelley Tyan: She passed five years ago.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Kelley Tyan: So I’m not telling you how old I was.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. That’s a trick question, right? Uh, yeah, I, I was thinking maybe even as a child, which my gosh is an only child, and, uh, losing your mom, it’s never easy. But losing ’em early would be tough too. So, so breast cancer survivor. So a little side note, my wife and I started a foundation for cancer in 2007, so we’re going back ways now. Uh, and it was started because of breast [00:03:00] cancer. Actually, my wife’s mom, grandma, and two of her aunts were all diagnosed within breast, with breast cancer within like a seven month period. Kelley Tyan: Wow. Brett Gilliland: And, and so we started this charity and it’s been amazing. Um, ever since 2007, the people, the community that come out and support it. And then you fast forward six weeks after we started our foundation, my dad had cancer. You know, he is gotten it a second time. Her dad’s got cancer, you know, now we have aunt’s, uncles, friends, loved ones. It’s just, you know, I always, when anytime I speak about cancer, I’ll ask them, everybody in the room to stand up that’s been impacted by this disease. And you know, the whole room stands up, right? Whether it’s yourself or a loved one. It, it’s just, it’s incredible. It does not discriminate. Cancer sucks. And, uh, so awesome hats off to you for being a breast cancer survivor. We love that. And, uh, it’s a whole other podcast that we can have on that, I’m sure, but we’ll leave that for another day. Um, so if you can, why don’t we, I’d like to start with just kind of habits. You know, you coach, uh, men and women, but mostly women, I think all over the, you know, the world probably, and, and, you’re [00:04:00] seeing some things that need to go on in the crazier world that we live in today. But what, what do you see are those two or three no miss items, uh, that people really need to be focusing on every single day to live their best life?  Kelley Tyan: Well, the number one thing I think to live their best life is people need to always have a vision in, um, a future look into what they want. If there’s no vision, then they cannot be successful, no matter what. We can plan and have goals, but I believe in really believing and seeing ourselves as the success that we wanna be or whatever it is we’re trying to achieve. I think it all comes down to having a vision. And that’s where it starts. Because I know for me, I knew I wanted, I saw myself speaking on stages. I saw myself constantly having the vision of mentoring women, coaching women. And I focused on that [00:05:00] all the time. Every single day I woke up, I thought about it. I, it was always on my mind and that’s what I worked towards. And I think that’s how I, you can make things happen for yourself.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, I know we talked about, you said, uh, or I said faith-based, entrepreneur, coach, speaker, all that stuff, but, you know, faith-based, let’s go there. The, the Bible even talks about right, without a vision, people perish. And, and our firm’s name is called Visionary Wealth Advisors and what the future could and will be like. Uh, cuz I, I agree. I mean, I think without that vision, without the end in mind, who knows where we’re going and on the, you know, no pun intended with the rainy day out there, but you know, when it rains in our personal lives or our professional lives, That vision for me over the last two decades has kept me going on what I’m trying to build, and I’m constantly working on that. So when you hear that, let’s, let’s dive deeper into that. In a vision, how do people go out and find that, and what steps can we take to, to create that?  Kelley Tyan: Well, I wanna backtrack a minute because I believe there are two different kind of people out there. The ones who we can experience the same rainy day. And that’s what made me think about it. And one person is going to use the rain and say, I’m gonna go out for a run today in. Run in the rain and I’m gonna get my workout in even though it’s rainy and cold, and the other person is going to say, ah, it’s raining, it’s cold. I don’t wanna move. I’m, ah, they’re gonna use rain as an excuse. So that’s… Brett Gilliland: That’s a great point. Kelley Tyan: That shows me, you know, there’s what kind of person do you wanna be? Do you wanna have a vision of being, I can use healthy and fit for this example; Do you want, if you wanna be healthy and fit, then no matter rain or shine, you’re out there doing your workout. The other person is just thinking about it, wishing for it, not taking action. They don’t have a vision of being healthy and fit, so they’re staying home and they’re in the same place they are they were four months ago, eight months ago, wondering why. So it really comes down to making a [00:07:00] choice. How do you wanna live your life? Am I gonna be an action taker in the rain or the shine? Am I gonna keep climbing no matter what, because we can make excuses all day long, right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: All of us. But we have to make that decision that I see myself healthy and strong. How am I gonna get there? And to get there, you have to take action. Set up habit. And just move. Just go.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s good. Especially this time of the year, I mean this, when this podcast airs, it’ll be probably the end of December, beginning of January. And I think about, it’s always a great time to reflect on the year, what we’ve just learned from our past. And I talk about the three Ps, your past, your peers, and your potential. And so let’s talk about the past. What did we just learn from 2022, right? How have we come out of this pandemic? How did we come out of a year with good economy, bad economy, depending on what type of business you’re in. But let’s look forward, and I think, you know, one question I would ask myself with a journal and a ink pen, if I’m somebody listening to this and struggles with this type of stuff, is, what does success mean to me? Right? What does success mean to me? And I don’t mean financial success, I just mean success, period. And so when I asked that to the people listening, I’ll ask it to you as well, what does success mean to you? Kelley Tyan: I love that question because I take the finances right out of it. Always.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Kelley Tyan: Because success to me is really about, am I fulfilled? Am I doing what I’m passionate about doing? Am I serving other people? Am I making an impact somewhere? Whether you are, you might not be a speaker or a leader, but yes, you’re a leader in your family. Are you leading the right way? Are you feeling fulfilled in your life? So, I think that’s really sums up what success is to me, living an abundant life. And you mentioned I am faithful, so is my faith on point? Am I not wavering in my faith? And that to me, Is how I feel successful every [00:09:00] single day.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So if we could, I’m gonna go through my ‘F’ to the fifth power, if that’s okay. And I think you’re gonna connect with these, that’s why I wanna spend some time on it. So, anytime, and you and I busy people, you get asked to do things and I, I filter it through these five buckets. If I’m saying yes or if I’m saying no. Does it move the needle in this part of my life? And so ‘F’ the fifth power, first one is faith, so how does that play out for you in the business world, but also personally? Uh, I should have looked at this. I apologize. I Oh yeah. You’re a mother of two children, uh, you’re married and, and so how does that play out for you in your business life, in your personal life? How’s faith play in that?  Kelley Tyan: Oh, faith is the foundation of everything in my whole entire world. I just have a really strong faith in, in my, let’s take my family life. You have to have faith or else  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Kelley Tyan: For me, you, you crumble, you have, you let, wary, fear, anxiety. I mean, I [00:10:00] guess you can say in both your business and in your family life, if we, if we let fear overtake us, we’re not gonna, the needle’s not gonna move. We’re gonna be stuck because we’re too fearful to take that next step. So, that’s where faith comes in. And when I lean, when you lean into your faith, You have you. If you have faith that is small as a mustard seed, it can move mountains. You just have to truly believe that. And having faith in yourself, it’s easy to say, but it’s back to that vision. If you are, if you feel you’re meant for more, you have to believe you’re meant for more. Take the action that goes along with those, the path you wanna be on an just keep going in faith that you will accomplish what you said you would do, if you keep moving forward. So faith to me is wraps up. That’s how I, I wake up in faith. I try not to let, of course I have fear, of course I have teenage kids.  So sometimes, you know, you’re anxious about your kids driving and all that other stuff. Worry what they’re doing. I mean, but you can let that take you down in a minute.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: And I, I, it’s a choice at the end of the day to choose faith over fear in everything we’re doing.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. Hey, how, how old are the kiddos? Kelley Tyan: I have a 23 year old and a 16 year old, and I need a lot of faith with those kids.  Brett Gilliland: I’m with you. I’ve got a, uh, 17, 15, 12, and eight in,uh. You know, but I’m, it’s funny because now I’m the old parent, like when I’m hanging around the eight year old families, you know, at school or whatever it may be, I’m like, oh man, I’m that guy. Right? They all look like little kids. And it’s, it’s awesome to see the, not the kids, but the parents look like kids. Mm-hmm. Um, but it is, I always tell ’em, big kids, big problems, little kids, little problems. And it, it is crazy, isn’t it? And you think about those things. It’s scary.  Kelley Tyan: Yes. I just, I, I was just talk, I did a podcast with [00:12:00] the other day. We were just talking about that and I said, between the ages of maybe four, 15 and 17. You know, the driver’s license. I mean, you can be up all night.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Kelley Tyan: Fear and worry. Yeah. As if you have children under 10, they’re home sleeping, they’re still listening to you. They’re still pretty much following your household’s rules. But yes, hang on to those years because it does change, which every stage is so much fun with children, but having a strong faith that they will be okay. It is all we can do. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. That, that five year old fear is that they’re gonna choke on the Lego or something, right? And then it’s uh, or that, what time are they coming home? Are they driving? It’s cloudy or it’s, uh, you know, it’s dark out, all that stuff. So it’s faith we hit that box. That’s great. I love that. I think it’s, uh, what I hear is it’s a huge part of your life. Um, and I’m assuming you’re reading, whether it’s in the Bible, you’re reading books, uh, it’s daily prayer. I mean, all those things are happening for you every day. Right? Uh, okay, so [00:13:00] what about family? So now how do we, again, in this busy schedule of life, we wanna run a business. We wanna be an entrepreneur, a, a teacher, a lawyer, whatever it may be. We wanna be successful. But how do we also then focus on family?  Kelley Tyan: I, it all comes down to being intentional when it comes to family because the phones can take over. I mean, we can be busy all day doing our business, especially entrepreneurs out there. We are constantly looking at our phones with email, but I think being very intentional about quality time, whether it’s, I feel as parents, they put a lot of stress. If they’re not spending an hour, I say, take the stress off. Spend 10 minutes of quality time with your spouse or your children, maybe more with your spouse, but. So in a day that, that we are, we’re all very busy. Our children are very busy, but I think it’s quality time and being intentional about that time can really just bring the happiness. You can go to bed feeling better at the end of the day if you are intentional about doing that, because the day can get away from you and you’re like, I didn’t even talk to my kid today, right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s right. I’m just writing that stuff down here. Sorry. So I, I think too, on the family side for me, I do an exercise every quarter of, I look back at my, you know, you grab your phone here and you look at all the pictures that you’ve taken over the last 90 days, and I go through and I write down all the moments that I just shared with my family, right? Whether it’s just my wife or my wife and kids, just a kid, whatever it may be. I literally write them down in a journal every month and then I plan the next 90 days. Or what are those things that we’re gonna go do? Right? So it may be as simple as what concerts are coming to St. Louis this quarter, right? Or whatever it  is that you want to go do. But your, to your point, I’m just piggyback on what you said is be intentional. I had a business leader tell me yesterday, he, you know, we, as we’re coaching him through the end of the year and in the next year, he said, I, next year is the year of self-care. And he goes, I’ve got to make my [00:15:00] family a bigger priority. He’s a great family guy, but he is like, I gotta make it a bigger priority, bigger things as kids get older, right? And so that’s just one exercise that I think is good. What, what is it that you may do for intentional stuff to make sure the family’s a focus?  Kelley Tyan: The same thing. I, we are so intentional about taking a family, you know, a couple family trips to, because my daughter doesn’t live in the house, she’s out living in the city. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: So we have to be very intentional planning. When can the four of us take a weekend or a night? I like to get out of the house. Take ’em out there, go to a hotel, take ’em to Florida, wherever we go. And um, that’s very, that’s at the top of my priority list. Yeah. Every quarter to be with my family. Brett Gilliland: Love it.  Kelley Tyan: As all four of us. Yes.  Brett Gilliland: Where, where’s the spot in Florida? You gotta a go to spot or you switch it around?  Kelley Tyan: We do. We, well, we do because my dad is there. He’s in Delray. So, Fort Lauderdale, Delray.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Sure. Awesome. We have an office  in Palm Beach Gardens, so not too far from there.  Kelley Tyan: Oh. And my cousin’s in Palm Beach. So I’m there all the time. Mm-hmm.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. I love it. So, faith, family. Um, now we talk about fitness. How, how has that play out in your life? Kelley Tyan: Okay, so coming from a fitness background, I’ve been a coach in fitness and health since 2008. It is another top priority for me. I work out every single day. I am, I try to be the example in my own family for health, and it is a priority for my husband and my son and my daughter. So , fitness is at the top of the list. Those are the three. Family, I mean, well, faith for me is first, family and my health and fitness because without our health we have nothing. So we focus a lot on health and fitness and working out. Even as a family, sometimes we go to the gym all together, which is so nice. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I love that. And, and I think of that in, um, you know, the, the accountability there is huge, right? I mean, when you think about your family, if they see mom doing it. And, and I would say that that’s where my inspiration, my wife is very disciplined with that stuff. Just being healthy, right? Staying, staying active and all that stuff. And I don’t want to be the guy that’s, you know, 90 years old and, and not being able to do it or dead right? I, my goal is to play golf at 100. And so, uh, you know, doing what I do for a living, it’s wealth management stuff. As I talk about your wealth and your health and how they’re so interlocked is if you have the best health in the world, but you never saved a dime. Well, guess what? Your health is probably gonna decline because you have no money. You can’t go do anything. Right? And vice versa, if you have all the money in the world, you worked your butt off, but you didn’t take care of yourself, guess what? Your money’s gonna go away because it’s gonna be paying for the doctor bills. Right? Or you’re gonna be dead. So those two things, I, in my opinion, go hand in hand. And so how much time should we be [00:18:00] spending knowing what you know? Uh, for us, you know, 40 year olds, 50 year olds that listen to this stuff, and maybe even the 30 year olds that need to start to worry about this stuff; cardio versus strength versus mobility.  Kelley Tyan: Well, this is what I say, you have to first find something you love to do. If you don’t like boot camps, then don’t. It’s gonna be agonizing to go to a boot camp class. You have to find what you like to do. Movement is the key, whether you’re going for a walk outside, whether you take 20 minutes and just move your body in front of the tv. I know a lot of people stress out about trying to fit into workout. “Oh, I don’t have time.”, “I can’t go to the gym.”, “Oh, I’m too intimidated.” You can do something at home. Like I said in the beginning, yeah, there’s always an excuse that can be made for any of it, but I say find something that lights you up, whether it is going for a walk, walk your dog. Just do something for at least 20 minutes, three to five times a week, so [00:19:00] you’re moving your body, because most of us are sitting 90% of the time. Brett Gilliland: Right. Kelley Tyan: And without movement, like you said, our joints we have to take care of. We’re gonna be, you don’t wanna wake up with stiff knees when you’re 45. And that comes down to… Brett Gilliland: Now, wait a second. How do you know I’m 45 with stiff knees? Dang it. How do you know that?  Kelley Tyan: Well, cause I’ve been working with people for years and I see it and they don’t wanna move. And it’s very important, like you said, our health is our wealth. Because without it, we can have all the money in the world. That doesn’t matter when you’re sick at home because you didn’t take care of yourself.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right.  Kelley Tyan: So what needs to be priority in movement And you don’t have to do crazy classes, it’s just moving. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Great. Great feedback. So fun. So the fourth ‘F’ is fun. I mean, you gotta schedule fun in my opinion, right? And, and not only just schedule it, but have fun, man. There’s so much bad crap going on in this world. [00:20:00] My business partner ,Tim Hammond, and I talk about all the time is just have fun. Just be, have some joy at work, laugh. You know, and I think so many times if, if we don’t have that in our culture, be the person in that culture that can bring the fun. So thoughts, feedback on that.  Kelley Tyan: I love this. So my husband is the fun in the family, easy. He’s, he loves planning things and I’m more, I’m pretty content being home, so I have to give him props and credit for always scheduling fun. We actually, we’re going to meet Kevin Hart this weekend. Brett Gilliland: Oh, nice.  Kelley Tyan: He schedules the fun. I am not in any lack for fun over here at all because I have to say it’s my husband, if it wasn’t for him. He schedules vacations and let’s go do this, Kelly, and which I’m so appreciative. I really am. Cause you’re right, I would probably not schedule as much fun if he didn’t push me. So, I really think it’s truly important. It changes our dynamic and our family. It changes the relationship. When you schedule fun. You go back to being silly. Just what you said, you have to, you can’t be serious all the time. Life is not supposed to be serious all the time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, and as you know, having a 23 year old I I, I noticed as it seems like, it just goes like that, that the, the fun for me is also, I can also call it the experiences, right? That, they go so fast. I just want to enjoy as much as I possibly can. I was blessed. My parents did that with me. I have a lot of great experiences that I was able to do as a kid. I want to keep that going, right, into my, into my children and, and so, but it goes so fast. So I think again, it comes back to the intentional, you, you mentioned it earlier, we gotta be intentional with this stuff. So, And it’s good to have a CFO, Chief Fun Officer, of your house, your husband, right? So. Kelley Tyan: I, I have that for sure. Brett Gilliland: And then the last one, I call it firm, but because that’s what we have as a firm, but it could be work, but that’s my fifth ‘F’ is firm. How do we get dialed in? Now, kind of what you do is helping people through your coaching business. What are the things that we needed to be doing on the quote, unquote rainy day? Since we keep talking about that, what are the things at work we need to be doing on maybe days you don’t want to do it?  Kelley Tyan: Well, it all comes down to we, we’ve already talked about being intentional for what you, your goals are, but it’s really, I used to. People would say to me, “Kelly, how are you so motivated? And I really had to let go of trying to find my motivation and I started relying on my routine and my habits that are in place. So I think it’s setting up your habits. What, you know, what we’re all different. My habits in the morning, I had to start setting up a morning routine because I used to start my day in chaos and running out the door and it wasn’t serving me. I was just too flustered. So I was intentional about setting my [00:23:00] morning routine, which is reading my Bible, being quiet, letting, keeping the noise out so I can hear my own thoughts, be in some prayer. But I think it’s really about setting yourself up for success that way, and setting up habits, putting habits in place, and that’s really how you’ll find your motivation in life. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: Don’t you agree? Brett Gilliland: I do, I do agree. And I think it’s, it’s setting up your priorities and, and I’ll talk about focus 90 here in a minute, but do you, do you find that you, you do that the same time every day? Do you beat yourself up or this morning routine? Is it get up and do things before the kids get up? Like, what’s that, what’s that chaotic life that we all live? What’s that like for you?  Kelley Tyan: It’s, I don’t beat myself up, but it, it’s, I, you know, I have pretty much three non-negotiables in my life and those are: wake up with prayer, my quiet time, my fitness, my faith, um, and of course my work, maybe there’s four. But yeah, that’s really what it comes down to is, um, not putting pressure on myself. If I don’t get it in first thing in the morning, which I like to start my day with quiet time. Sometimes it doesn’t work that way, so I don’t beat myself up, but I make sure I do get it in. At some point in, because it makes me feel successful when I do that. I feel happy. I get my happiness and fulfillment from that, from my fitness, from my workouts, from my morning time, and so those are non-negotiables for me. Yep. Brett Gilliland: Would you say it gets easier? We just talked about big kids, big problems, little kids, little problems. But what I’ve experienced as my youngest is now eight, is, you know, can have the alarm set and get up on his own and do the, brushing his teeth and get dressed and make his bed, you know, all the things, right? I, I’m thinking about that mom or dad right now that’s listening to this and they’re like, “Dude, you guys don’t understand, man, my kids are, you know, 1, 3, 5 and whatever. Right? One, three, and five and, and I’m brutally tired in the morning. It’s, you know, getting up in the middle of the night and it’s like, and you guys sit here and talk about this morning routine. Right? Well, that sounds fine and dandy, but some people just quite frankly aren’t in that spot that they can do that right now. So what’s that like? What advice would you have for that mom or that dad that’s 33 years old, right? And dealing with the stuff that we dealt with years ago. Kelley Tyan: Oh man, do I remember those days. First of all, I’m praying for you right now, but no. I just think having you have to schedule time for some kind of rest. Which, I define rest as release every single thing. We all have pressures. We all have stress. The kids, you have a three, five, and a seven year old. We’re tired parents. But if you are not intentional, how many times are we gonna say that about scheduling five minutes of rest. Go up into your bedroom, shut the door. Everybody can find a way to [00:26:00] just alleviate some of that pressure in the day. But, again, it all comes down to a choice. You can run yourself ragged day after day after day, but if you are not the one scheduling that rest saying to your spouse or your kids ,even, I need a minute. I just need a few minutes to myself, then you’re not gonna have the minutes. So you have to. Ask for it, right? You have to make sure your family knows, I need some time. I have to schedule that in, and I’m going to be intentional about it because it’s good for my health. We can’t run on fumes constantly. We have to schedule that rest time. It’s very important.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Hey, I, I couldn’t, you actually made me write something down that I’ve never really thought about, but for me, I, I call it focus 90, so it’s, it’s 90 days. So I have a goal, right? My goals are written in my journal right here that I’ve created. This is the future grade than your past journal, [00:27:00] and it, it, my goals are written down and things I want to do, but I’ve also got, you know, four or five activities every 90 days, that I need to be working on and getting better at. It may be a work related goal, it may be a revenue goal, it may be a vacation goal. It may be, you know, read 10 pages, goal, whatever they are, right? They’re all across the board, and I focus on those for 90 days. But, also , other part of that 90 is 90 minutes to start each day. So where I had to get to is if I didn’t do it, I was a failure. You know, I wasn’t being successful. But what helped me, It’s gotta be in that morning time, but it may be before the kids get up. It may be after they go off to school. Then my next 90 minutes is that. But just commit and not beat yourself up over not doing it the exact same time, the exact same way, every single day because that’s really, really hard to commit to. And then for me, it’s the accountability part with it. So, ‘F’ 90, Focus 90 made me fan. I just created that focus and accountability, 90. Right. Yeah. And I think that’s crucial. So tell me about accountability for you. How important is it and what accountability parameters, if you have any that you’ve got set up in your life?  Kelley Tyan: Oh. Accountability I feel is the key to success in a way. I have two coaches that keep me accountable. I mean, here I am, I led fitness.  Brett Gilliland: So time out, time out. We’re gonna, we’re gonna start that over again cause I don’t wanna just gloss over that. So you are, as I mentioned earlier, a faith-based entrepreneur, a coach, a speaker, author, et cetera. But you just said you have what?  Kelley Tyan: I have two coaches, an I in an elite mastermind. We we’re always growing and we need to be, have accountability so we can continue growing. I, I know that no one succeeds alone because I tried it. I tried doing it all alone.  Brett Gilliland: Doesn’t work.  Kelley Tyan: Yeah, it just doesn’t work. I need to be, I know what to eat, I know what to do for workouts, but I still need a fitness coach so I can be accountable to that person, so I can show up because some days it is, when I don’t feel like I might not show up. So I think, if you wanna move the needle, if you wanna go higher and climb to that next level, make sure you have an accountability person, coach, program, something that you are tapped into that can get you to that next level. Because you can go faster with more people leading. You know, paving the way for you than if you were to do it alone.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. And do you think that’s important to have that person?  Kelley Tyan: That’s very important for me.  Brett Gilliland: Do, do you think it’s important to have that person or that coach? Uh, I guess it’s gotta be a person, right? Like, I, I feel like I’m pretty disciplined now, uh, about getting up and working out, you know, six days a week. And my accountability is on Tuesdays and Thursdays. People are tired to hear me say this since August. I’ve got 13 guys are in a text message that [00:30:00] I text out they gotta send back. When it was nice out the weather, they had to be at my backyard, but now they gotta send a picture in. That’s huge for me. Like I know that my buddies are gonna bust my chops if I’m not sending a picture at 6:00 AM Right? Um, but do we need more than that? Is it more than an app? What is it? Kelley Tyan: I, I, I mean, I don’t, you can have a friend be your accountability partner. I don’t think, I think you just need someone that you can say, Hey, I’m gonna try to get stronger and be healthier. Have a friend just keep you accountable. I really, I just think it’s someone that you can tap into at least once a week. It doesn’t have to be so much pressure to do it every single day, but, it does matter. It does matter for your progress. Brett Gilliland: I love that. Yeah. That it’s, it’s strong. And I think too is, there’s so many things on our phones, free resources. I mean, somebody just told me about one yesterday, I, I can’t think of it. So I don’t wanna budget the name. But you know, there’s so many [00:31:00] things out there. And then just like you said, call a friend, have the buddy system hold each other. Yeah. Support group. So talk about that elite mastermind people talk about those all the time. What do you get?  Kelley Tyan: Oh, I love being a part of a mastermind in general. I’ve done numerous ones. Well, I like to tap into my industry, so I’m faith in business. And I tap into people that are a few steps ahead of me. That are doing what I wanna do. So, I’m learning from them so I can have a shorter path to where I wanna go than if I didn’t tap into these people. Because with a mastermind, you have lots of ideas instead of just your own couple ideas, and it opens up a whole world of opportunity that you might never have thought of if you were by yourself.  So I think just community is key. Tapping into different communities of, you know, whatever your goals are. It, what, where you wanna be [00:32:00] successful, whether it’s a better marriage. I mean, there’s so many communities you can be involved with in , in, um, to, to get you to that next level, to level you up. If you were, if you were doing it alone, you might not get there as fast. It will take longer.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. So, this is obviously called the Circuit of Success, uh, where we like to talk about success, but also part of success is failure, in my opinion. And, and so what, what failure have you had that you’re comfortable sharing? Um, and, and what, what failure have you had and what did you learn from it?  Kelley Tyan: Well, failure is definitely part of success, but I feel with failure, if I fail at something, I really try to look at it this way. I look at it more of a redirection to something better. Um, I’d rather fail at something and say, I tried than not try at all and have regret.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Kelley Tyan: And it’s like, with my book, I, at first I was like, well, who’s gonna buy it? Should I write it? I mean, why am I writing this? Nobody’s, does anyone really care? And, but if I didn’t write it, I would’ve had that regret. So we are gonna fail at a lot of things. I’ve had a lot of failures. I mean, just launching programs as simple as, not simple, but as small as launching a program, that field. Then you learn, well, what can I do different to make this program better? So I take it more, I try to change my mindset around failure to, if I fail, at least I tried and now maybe I’m redirected to something different. Try it a new way. Yep. So I really, it doesn’t put a lot of pressure on me anymore, like it used to when I was younger, I used to think failure was, “Oh, I’m done. I’m over.” But now it’s, it’s more of an excitement to me. If I fail, okay, I can work on this. I’m betting on myself that I can make it better the next time. Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s a huge price, like right, to, not [00:34:00] a price to pay, but a price to receive. I guess a value add is, it’s a, it’s, it’s not a failure, it’s a learning. That’s the way I position it, is all the times I’ve failed in my life. If I don’t learn something, then it’s truly a failure, right? If I just keep, you know, running my head against the wall, well then now you’re just an idiot and you’re, you’re failing. But if you learn something from it, oh, I gotta go around the wall. Great. Um, and so that’s a big, have you seen this show ‘Limitless’ on Disney Plus? I, I’m a, I think it’s Chris Hemsworth is his name. It is phenomenal. And, and it’s about the, I’ve only seen, I say it’s phenomenal. I’ve seen one episode, so I, it’s not a fair statement, but I think it’s gonna be phenomenal. And the people, uh, that told me about it, I, I highly respect their opinion and they said, I gotta watch it. But he talks about that positive mental attitude, how it changed his heart rate, his breathing. You know, all that stuff when he was in high stress situations, you know, as an actor and all these different things. Um, so it’s just something I was gonna recommend to check out. Um, if you could go back and give, uh, you know, Kelly, you know Tyan advice at 25 years old, what, what advice would you give a 25 year old Kelly.  Kelley Tyan: Probably just what we’re talking about. Just not look back. You, you will make mistakes, you will fail, but don’t stay there. Keep your eye on the prize ahead. Don’t compare yourself to other people, which I think when I was very young, I was always comparing, and ‘why is she better?’ What? Why does she have more? Focus on you in your strengths and what you can bring to this world and you will succeed.  Brett Gilliland: Love it. Who’s the most, uh, inspirational, um, or, uh, I can’t even speak, but who’s the most influential person in your life? Uh, and what lesson have you learned from that person?  Kelley Tyan: It was definitely my mom. She just was inspirational in every single way, shape and form. She taught me just excellence in being, um, more of a servant leader. My mom was very much, all about making an impact in people’s lives. And I truly cherish that. Cause I saw the way she never worried about, you know, a money exchange. It was all about just hearing people, hearing and listening and serving. And so that’s to me, is that’s everything to me.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome, awesome. Um, so I was gonna ask if you had to write a book, but a lot of my, uh, guests have written books, which is, which is amazing. So the, the question I normally ask, if you had to write a book tomorrow, what would you call it and why? Uh, but you’ve already done that. So you wrote the book, ‘Addicted to the Climb’. You explained a little bit, uh, about it earlier, but talk to me more about one, the title, why you did it, and what do you hope the readers get from it? Kelley Tyan: So, ‘Addicted to the Climb’ is really just empowering people to just keep on climbing in with faith as the foundation. Believing that you can, whether you believe in God or whatever, you have to have faith that you will and can keep going. So my book is 30 Personal Stories I wrote of just overcoming trauma to grief, um, being fired. All kinds of stories that I know many of us can relate to because I feel we all go through similar things in life. But it’s the way we respond to those situations. So my book gives examples, um, prayers, quotes, and just personal stories. If I can get through these things, you certainly can. I don’t have anything different than any of us. So, I believe that we all have the power inside us as long as we keep our eye on the prize and we just keep moving forward.  Brett Gilliland: Love it. Last question for you is, uh, I love asking this question, but how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind over your lifetime have actually blown up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be. Kelley Tyan: Less than 0.5%. Yeah, I don’t, none. Because it’s funny that you’re saying that I, I was actually thinking about that this morning. When it comes to fear, fear is such a liar. It’s not true. It’s, it’s, it doesn’t even, it, it’s, it’s something that we put so much str, we’re so stressed out and fearful, yet, like you just said, 99.9 of the percent of the times, it doesn’t even happen. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: So, it’s a waste of time to worry and have fear the less it’s actually happening. I say put your effort somewhere else because fear is gripping. But fear, I had a friend write a book ‘Kick Fear in the Face’. And that’s what we really need to do physically. Like kick it in the face. Cause it’s, it’s, it’s a liar. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, false evidence is [00:39:00] appearing real, right? That’s what it stands for. And it’s funny because I, it’s, I’ve, I asked that question because for me early on that that was, especially starting a company and all those things, you have all these fears, right? And it’s like you can lay in bed at night and like, my God, they do appear real. Even though they’re not. Um, but it’s funny, you know, I, I, you’re my 317th interview and I’ve probably asked that question 295 times, right? And it, it’s one of those, I wish I had all 295 responses on video I could show on a, uh, highlight reel. Just one after another. Because what you did, you, you laughed, right? You kind of went away from the mic a little bit. It’s what we all do cuz it hits home. And, and for, again, for those people listening to this right now, you have a fear in your mind. And that fear is lying to you, like you said, and, and it’s how do we get that thing knocked off our shoulder and stop listening to that voice and know that 295 people or whatever the number is. It’s building that belief in me to say, stop doing this, Brett, because that fear I’m putting in my mind never blows up to the magnitude I’ve put it in my mind to be. And if it does, your outcome will be different anyway.  Kelley Tyan: Exactly. You have to just have a, a conversation with yourself that’s very strong. Just know that you are an overcomer no matter what. You’ve already been. I always tell my clients, can you tell me 10 things you’ve been through right now? Many of ’em are like, yeah, I can tell you 20. I say, well, think about that right now. You’ve already been through the hardest of times. Don’t let fear rip you. If you got through those things, you will get through whatever else is thrown at you and more. You just have to believe and, and take fear and like you said, brush it off your shoulder and move on. Brett Gilliland: So, where do our listeners get your book? I’m assuming anywhere. And then, uh, where do they get your book? Where do they find more about you and your podcast and everything else? Kelley Tyan: They can find me on [00:41:00] LinkedIn, for sure, Instagram and my book is, you Can, Amazon is the best and my podcast is they’re both called ‘Addicted To the Climb”. Brett Gilliland: ‘Addicted To the Climb’. Uh, we will put those in the show notes. In the notes below. Uh, Kelly Tyan, it’s been awesome having you on the ‘Circuit of Success’. Tons of notes, tons of takeaways. Appreciate your time and uh, Merry Christmas and happy holidays to your family.  Kelley Tyan: Thank you so much. You as well. God bless.  

Nick Cavuoto’s message is inspiring, energetic and actionable. His combined passion and decades of expertise for what is possible through inner alignment creates meaningful impact for all who hear it. True alignment is the pathway to greater impact, abundance, and fulfillment. When you’re aligned, you honor, acknowledge, and flow through your emotion, which is energy in motion. Maybe you’ve tried to “make it happen” either on your own or following the advice of others. But no matter what you do, something feels “off” the ease, flow, and results just aren’t there in your business, your team, or your life. Brett Gilliland Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I got Nick Kabuto with me. Nick, what’s up buddy? Nick Cavuoto How’s it going, man? It’s great to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Brett Gilliland Absolutely. You’re coming in from Nash- Vegas. I’m coming in from the St. Louis area here in O’ Fallon, Illinois. You’re a NewNash- Vegas guy in Nashville, Tennessee. Right? Nick Cavuoto That’s right. We spent a good amount of, uh, the last, you know, half a decade or so out in Denver, uh, originally from, uh, from New York. And, um, dude, it’s been a journey, you know, I had to go west to find myself. Becoming an entrepreneur seems to have that, you know, um, seems to have that effect on people where they have to really dig deep and go like, man, what is the bigger picture here? What do I want in life and what do I need to do about it? So. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto It’s incredible. Brett Gilliland Well, that’s awesome, man. Before we dive into all this stuff, um, you are a four time CEO and founder, a Fortune 500consultant, a private equity investor, a keynote speaker, and global business leader. Um, man, you’re just helping tons of people and I can’t wait to chat about, uh, all that. But before we get started, if you can just kind give us a backstory, man, what’s made Nick, the man you are today.And, uh, then we’ll, we’ll rock from there. Nick Cavuoto For sure, man. Well, you know, uh, to, to keep it brief and simple, uh, my dad was a drug dealer who found Jesus. Okay? So that’s my origination story, is that’s the stock that I’m coming from, which is actually pretty incredible because, you know, it talks about a story of transformation, of going in one direction, finding truth, and then going in a different direction. And that was my dad’s story of course. But, um, you know, coming into the world, uh, you know, I grew up sleeping under pews at you know, three years old, uh, because my dad ended up becoming a pastor and leading a congregation of people.And, uh, so my life started in, you know, very, um, uh, disruptive, encouraging, thought-provoking environments. Um, and I’ve seen public speakers since I was three years old. I’ve, you know, been a part of really epic movements since I was a young kid. And so my life has just surrounded the idea of transformation, of awakening and surrender. Of being on a journey of finding the highest and most true version of who we are and what our greatest contribution could be in the world. And, uh, for that, I’m incredibly thankful, man. So yeah, I’ve done a lot of really cool things in the business world. Um, but, you know, life’s a labyrinth, man. We, we come out the same door that we went in and I’m just finding myself now in a different position going like, I helped a lot of people uh, a lot of companies and it’s time for me to help a lot more people. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And so how, how did you get into that? Like what made you go from that role? Obviously, the what you just, uh, very transparently shared from drug dealer who found to your dad, who found Jesus and, and, but you don’t just wake up and consult with the people that you’re consulting with and having conferences and do those things. Kind of walk us through that journey as the young Nick, not that you’re not young now, but the young Nick. Uh, what, what were you doing back then on that grind on that journey? Nick Cavuoto Yeah, man. Well, you know, uh, let me, let me look at my, my story at 19. I fell outta college for the second time and uh, you know, I ended up going back home. I was in South Florida, you know. What I was up to. I mean, it’s a pretty easy story to kind of, you know, connect the dots, right? Fell outta college and you’re in South Florida. I mean, it’s pretty simple. So I went back home and I asked my dad, I was like, man, I need to come home. And, and, and my dad was like, you know, it’s kind of a prodigal son moment of where his arms are open. Why? Like, come on back, man. I got you. And I just said, dad, I don’t know what I need to do with my life, man. I don’t, I don’t know how to get it back on track. And he said, you need to serve, and I understood the concept growing up, you know, and basically a business that required volunteers, right? Uh, people being there, not because they’re getting paid, but because they wanted to be a part of something, they wanted to belong. And my dad taught me, you know, really the power of servant leadership. And so I showed up and I kept showing up. And I remember this dude, you know, real tall, skinny guy walks up to me, you know, at, at the church that, uh, my dad suggested I volunteered at by that time he was finished. And, um, he just says, Hey, your dad said you know a lot about technology. I could really use a hand if you’re open to it. And I was like, I’d love to. I still work with that guy now, 15 years later. Brett Gilliland Wow. Nick Cavuoto We still collaborate. He still films my events. I mean, it’s, it’s absolutely incredible. So, you know, I think that’s the power of service man, of showing up, doing the right thing, following, you know, the path of life and trusting the process. Man, I, I can’t even explain how many times I’ve had to rely on an inner-knowing trusting that God saw the picture more clear than I did. And for those of you who might have a different belief system, that’s okay. This is just my dialect. It’s like my accent, if you will. It’s just the way that I talk cause of the way I was raised. And um, at the end of the day, I just truly believe that you have to be in a place of where you can trust the greater process and uh, and lean into that. And, um, that’s where my help comes from, you know, and everything that I do, I have a deep reliance on knowing that something greater has my back. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And so when you’re 19 falling out of college and you’re going back home, I mean, how, how do you though. Yeah, I’m, I’m putting this visual out there, right? You’re, you’re in this hole. Maybe there’s a ladder sound like there’s a ladder, there’s at least a hand down right from dad that’s gonna pull you up. Um, but man, even on the days of dark days, right? What, what were you doing if I were back there following this guy around at whatever, 25 years old, what, what were you doing day in, day out to get where you’re at today? What was, what was that like? Nick Cavuoto Well, you know, at 19 I said, I’ll serve and I just helped. And then I got greater and greater responsibility, so I just show up. I was uploading podcasts. It was the first thing that I did. Once a week I’d go in and upload a podcast. Well, after you show up for six months, everyone’s like, who the heck is this guy? Right? Like he still showed up for free. And after that, then they said, Hey, you know, we have a, um, we have a location in, in our, in the downtown, in, in the downtown area in the city. And they were like, we need someone to help launch an initiative to feed the homeless. And I was like, I’m in. Like, let’s go. Let’s do it. I think that with, you know, if you truly want to be great in life and you wanna do great things, it requires a deep level of personal responsibility. And when the things come your way, I’ve learned in my life how to wait for the, invitation. How to let things come to me like a hunter in the woods. Like, I’m like, I’m gonna let this thing walk towards me. For me, it’s about being in the right place at the right time. And that’s really the trajectory of what I learned from that season because after that I ended up going into ministry. I volunteered for two years. I went from going, you know, for two hours a week to going to 40 hours a week, volunteering for zero. And I was working full-time at Verizon. It was the first like real job I ever had. And I got, you know, working there in the call center because I didn’t have a degree and I was kind of working it out. And ended up going to number two in the organization at that church, which we had 50 employees. I mean, I was managing an eight figure budget at 24. Um, you know, and I took that church from a thousand to 10,000 people every weekend. And that was on the back, of course, of a, of a lot of people who were given it their all. Um, I don’t take full credit for that whatsoever, but you had to have a lot of valor. You had to be a champion. You had to be in there going like, you know, have the courage do it. Scared, push through. I, I didn’t question my, you know, inabilities cause my dad always told us, he said, God will always make room for your gift. It’s about being accessible and available to the greater things that are, that are happening in your life. And so that’s what I did. Craig Rochelle’s a great principle. Better is an open hand than a closed fist. I kept my hands open and that’s, I think that’s where we become that circuit. The transmission of energy is when we can receive and we can give. And we can give and we can receive, yeah. That most people have a problem receiving, which is actually what cuts off the line from them being able to do their grace work. Brett Gilliland Wouldn’t you also think that that’s the abundance mentality there? I mean, hearing what your dad said to you, hearing what you just said, right. Open hands, give and receive, both those, but I think, man, what my experience has been, the, the, the, the abundant mentality wins. And this is obvious, right? I’m not, I’m not curing cancer here with this statement, but the scarcity mentality does not, but I think it’s hard for people that are, that have that mindset maybe of scarcity. What advice would you have for that person to say, you know what, man? Open your freaking heart. Open your mind. Believe big, believe in abundance. How do we go do that? Nick Cavuoto Yeah. You, you know, I just posted this on my Instagram today, but it’s absolutely true. I tell people all the time, they’re like, so Nick, what do you do? I’m like, here’s the bottom line. If you spend too much time with me, you’re gonna brainwash yourself into thinking that you’re capable of accomplishing anything. Okay? That’s the bottom line. And that’s cause that’s what happened with me. Right? Brett Gilliland Right. Nick Cavuoto That was my story of what my dad and others did for me. So I think at the end of the day, we have to really view this as this privilege of a lifetime to become truly who we are. Anytime that we’re in emotive contraction. You know, I look at contraction, I have four kids, now I look at it as a process of birthing something new. Now, Braxton Hicks are when you’re having contractions, but nothing’s actually happening. Right. It’s kind of like those practice ones. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto And I think that’s where a lot of people live. They’re too afraid to give birth to the thing they actually want in their life. So they just spend their lifetime of 20, 30, 40, 50, a hundred years in Braxton Hicks and getting ready to get ready. And I just think that’s an absolute tragedy. And so when people are not operating out of abundance, it actually has a lot more to do with their reliance or their belief system on what’s possible for them, for the people around them. I mean, talking about recessions and different things happening on the planet, it’s a recession of the mind. It’s a contraction of the mind. The markets follow where the conversation is going, and so I think at the end of the day, I just look at it very binary when it comes to abundance or, or an abundance mentality. The only way to do your greatest work, for those of you who are seeking success in your life, is to do what you love. That’s it. And to do what you love requires abundance. How lucky are we that we can do anything in the world and get paid for and make whatever we want doing it right? To me, that is the modus operandi for entrepreneurs. Brett Gilliland Yeah, that’s incredible. So when you, again, I’m just, I’m thinking here about 19 and then 25, and now you know, four time, when we say four times, CEO and founder, a Fortune 500consultant, a private equity investor, like, what are you doing now? Like, if, if somebody were able to follow you around the camera every day, what, what am I seeing are the no miss items? You know, you’re, you’re doing this regardless of what in the hell happens in your day. What is that? Nick Cavuoto Um, I mean, at the end of the day, it’s been a confidant for people, it’s, you know, catalyzing people. And that comes in the format of a lot of content production. So producing content, writing eBooks, writing books, um, hosting conferences, launching conferences. Um, you know, I just, I think that I want to be that cornerman for people who are up to something. You know, there’s an old saying that I have that you can’t do epic things with basic people. So I love being around people who are up to something and doing something big, and I know that I can continue to spur and cheer that on, cheer them on and, and push ’em forward. But the way that I went from, you know, Fortune 500 was, it was really being in the right place at the right time. When I left ministry, I got a job at paychecks. I ended up going back to school and graduated with a 3.8 GPA, which is incredible. Brett Gilliland Nice work. Nick Cavuoto Got a job at a Fortune 500 company. When I did that, man, that’s where, you know, things really started to turn. I just was in the right place at the right time. I believe there’s favor on my life. I believe that I’m constantly waiting for the invitation, allowing opportunity to hit me, and then I build a bunch of companies and then moved on from some of ’em. And you know, that’s just kind of how life has has happened. So now, I mean, my days are just spent finding people who are hungry, who want more. Um, who are in a place of trying to find abundance and alignment in their life. And so I’m leveraging really beautiful systems to help them find, you know, what it is, is that their next step is in life and.. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto And how to cheer them, champion them. Yeah. Brett Gilliland Well I think that, that, again, you said right place at the right time. You’ve said that twice now. And, and I think that is also that abundance versus scarcity is just being there, man, being in the game, I always say go play in traffic. Right. Sometimes you’re gonna get freaking smoked right by that car and sometimes it’s gonna be, you know, beautiful. Right? You’re gonna get, it’s like Frogger, right? You’re gonna get right across there. Nick Cavuoto Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland But playing in traffic, things happen. And so I call it the God wink. You know, the, the God wink is when you happen to be in the right spot at the right time using air quotes. Um, cause I don’t believe anything happens by coincidence. Man, there, there’s a reason. Nick Cavuoto I agree. Brett Gilliland Either you made that thing happen. Or you were aware, you had a lot of awareness on where you were at to see that one thing to where now you say, yeah, it’s right place, right time, but a lot of people may have just missed that opportunity, don’t you think? Nick Cavuoto Absolutely, man. Absolutely. And that goes back to the concept of being the hunter. It’s like, why would you stand out in the woods for 5, 6, 7 hours if you weren’t gonna pay attention to the right opportunity that came towards you?Right. And that’s where I’ve learned that is it’s that patience.It’s, it’s that patience with anticipation. And I think that God fills in the blank, you know, because I look at nature and it’s like, well, how did these things get here, and how are they gonna find their way to me, it, it is, you know, some people would look at it as like, well, you know, if you find a good spot, you know, it’s like, well, then they just, you get lucky and they walk towards you. I’m like, no, this is not luck. This is studying and investigating and understanding and knowing and putting in the work and practicing the principles and punting the past and saying For the future. Being unbelievably present in the moment in order to receive what it is that I’m seeking. So I set my intentions everyday. I know exactly what I want the day to look like. Most people don’t do that. So when I’m like, I know exactly what I want personally, experientially giving and receiving, I know at the end of the day of who I want to help and who can help me. I know actually at the beginning of the day how to do it, how to prioritize it, how to get it done so that I can never ask myself the question of like, well, what, what’s my purpose? What should I be doing today? And I learned that from my mentor, David Meltzer, of just being unbelievably present by setting intentions, living an inspired life. And, um, that’s what changed the game for me, man. But dude, I, I lost a million dollars in two days when COVID hit. I mean, you talk about taking entrepreneur, you know, backhands to the face. Um, I, you know, built a $4 million company out of one of the four that, uh, my best friend from high school is helping me run. And he stole the whole thing out from underneath me. Brett Gilliland Oh. Nick Cavuoto Undersold all the clients. Stole the lead list, stole the IP, stole everything. You wanna talk about taking a punishing, beating of almost feeling like I’m a masochist, cause I’m like, man, I’ve just taken it over and over. But the principle is to get back up because there’s something greater. There’s someone out there. I remember when I was in ministry, I was always focusing on the person in the back of the room who was closest to the door, cause that’s a person who needs it the most. I don’t need the Amen Corner or the people up front. I need to try to find that one dude at the back of the room who’s gonna go commit suicide if he doesn’t make a change in his life today. That’s where I’m seeking to create change.That’s where I’m seeking to help people and some people just want to quit on their dream. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto They want to cash it in and just be like, I’m done. And I’m just like, there’s so much more for you. And if you’re in a season of transition, if you’re experiencing an exit in your life, I think thatI’m the best conversationalist to ask you. So what’s next? And that’s where I spend a lot of my time as well. Brett Gilliland So let’s, let’s spend some time on that. A million dollars, I think you said in 24 hours or 48 hours, uh, which is, is a kick, right in the shorts. And but what, what about for that person that’s listening, saying, yeah, man, but you, you don’t understand. You already have million and I, I’m making this up. I have no idea your financial situation. You know, you’ve already got money. Right. So it’s not, they discount it like, well, he’s different. Right. Or David Meltzer is different. And, and what do you say to that person, man? And, and how do you get to the point where, yeah, it did hurt. It freaking hurt a lot. But I’m going to get back up. Nick Cavuoto You know, when I was five years old, um, I nearly drowned in a pool and, uh, we were on vacation with our family and parents weren’t paying attention. Just a, I got four kids. I get it. That kind of stuff happens. Um, but at a very young age, I had to fight for my life. And, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a quality that I’ve never had to train because it came, it like went embedded into my D N A. When you have to survive at that age and figure it out. I don’t necessarily know how to explain to someone how to get back up because it’s an automatic response for me. But here’s what I will say. Not everybody wants the same thing. So some people, they don’t want the same thing as me. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Like I’m chasing a dream of building a foundation for my wife’s father who was killed when she was three, to help moms who who want to become entrepreneurs and don’t have a partner or their partner was killed or whatever happened, or kids who were fatherless. That’s what I want to teach entrepreneurship to. So my why is just so much bigger, and that’s me living my inspired life to go like, I need 50 million to do that. It’s just not like, just a basic thing, right? It’s like in order to create cosmic shifts, huge, huge waves in the world, like you’ve gotta be up to something. You’ve gotta make big asks. So for me, I just look at it like, well, we don’t want the same thing. If you don’t have the courage to get back up, then you’re gonna lose. There, there’s just no other way. Just think about it in a boxing ring. If someone gets hit with a haymaker and they can’t get back up from it, you just have to accept the L. And the L is not just a loss, it’s a life lesson for you to look at things differently and say, okay, let me reset my expectations. What do I want? You know what I realized was I was out of alignment. In the places where I’ve experienced the most amount of pain, I knew better in my knower, I knew better, and there are some experiences in life that were life lessons that I had to say thank you to later on. You know, there were things that hurt really bad, like losing my best friend over a business thing and just the whole thing that happened. You know, I don’t think I was deserving of that, but I think it was a life lesson that gives me the integrity to talk to other people about that situation when they’re in it today. So I had to learn how to say thank you to everything that came my way. So I think that it’s just like we, we can’t look at things so binary like that. Just, you know, good things that happen are good and bad. Things that happen are bad. I think we have to live an ultimate truth, honesty, and integrity, and know what we want, who we can help, and then how to make it happen and then just live in inspired life of being in our why. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto So, you know, I think at the end of the day, um, you’ll always know the size of the leader by the amount of arrows that he takes. I’ve just taken a lot because I know what I’m up to and I know what God has positioned and planned for my life. Um, I just hope I inspire somebody else to get back up cause I go like, well, I lost 900,000. It wasn’t as bad as that dude. Brett Gilliland Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. But how do you do that even, right. I lost, I, I asked a lot of how do you do that? But I, for me, you can see it here probably on my mic. The F greater than P.That’s, that’s me living in my, my vision and my mission is helping people achieve a future greater than their past. So we’re, we’re talking the same language, but that didn’t just come overnight. Right. That was, you know, I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing for 21 years now, and so for the last, whatever it’s been, seven or eight years, this has been my mission. I’m living in that mission. Right. Our firm, we get to live in that mission with our clients, but how do you find that man? How do you, how do you wake up and know I need 50 million for this deal, for your wife, for this foundation? I mean, what advice would you have for our listeners that are searching man, they’re soul searching for what that journey is. What that why is. Nick Cavuoto To listen more than they talk. You gotta be present. The only way to avoid, you know, disruption, uh, of your future and in order to not have, you know, regret and, and, uh, lack of forgiveness of your past is to be unbelievably present. To be inthe here and the now. That’s the only thing that we have, you know, um, I’ve heard it said, you know, that, uh, trying is failing. We’re not gonna try to raise $50 million to create a foundation for single moms and kids who are fatherless. We’re going to doit. There’s a confident assurance when you know that you can be audacious enough to name it in claimant, say what you want, and then watch the process of it happening. I think that’s just the big miss, my friend, is that most people, they don’t know what they want. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto That so they don’t have the boldness or the audacity to ask for it. The way I look at that is like sitting at a drive-through for three years. Could you like play that movie in your head of sitting at a drive-through and going like, I’ll have the um, oh man, what is it gonna be? Ah, and sitting there for three years, for a thousand days. But that’s how most people live their life, except for it’s not three years, it’s 30 years, it’s 40 years, it’s 50 years. And they spend their whole life questioning and lacking certainty on what it is that they want because they can’t just get over that edge to just name it it and flame it, and go like, this is what I want. Yeah, that’s so I have absolutely.. Right. I have absolutely zero problem asking God or the universe or whatever somebody believes. I don’t give a crap what you believe. The idea is that I have no problem naming, claiming, asking, requesting, aligning, you know, finding abundance, going after what I want, and not feeling any way about that except for absolutely exuberant and excited and omniscient. And I dare myself, maybe it’s 500 million instead of 50. Like how, how big can I push the vision? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Because it’s, it’s in that space that allows us to just, I think, aim higher so that we can take responsibility and do our greatest work. Brett Gilliland So, so walk through that. Let’s, let’s stay there for a minute. You talked about your, you’re not afraid to ask, right? So you’re asking God, you’re asking the universe. I know, and I’m in a Bible study and, and it, it’s really helped me. But it’s sometimes, you know, you can feel somewhat selfish, right? Of saying, you know, dear God, you know, give me this thing, right? I, I need this thing to happen professionally or personally or whatever. Um, how do you feel about that when you hear me say that? Nick Cavuoto Oh yeah. Um, well here’s what my thing is. It’s like, well, you know, in the Bible, like it talks about it and there’s a lot of other universal principles on this, but you don’t have it cause you’re not asking for it. It says, you know, seek first the kingdom ofGod and everything else will be added to you. You know, make your request known to me and I will fulfill them like it’s actually being told to us. Like, cause what good father would withhold from his children. Again, I have four. I, I would never withhold anything from my kids unless it’s not good for them. Brett Gilliland Right. Nick Cavuoto And sometimes when my daughter wants ice cream, before you know, dinner, I just don’t have the patience. I’m fine. I’m just like, whatever. That’s fine. Just go, just go ahead. And sometimes we have, that’s where we have to know, right? Because sometimes we can becken God for things or like keep naming it, claiming it, and declaring it. And sometimes we get something that maybe isn’t the best for us. I would, looking back in my life, it’s a great life lesson. I’m grateful I had it, but I would’ve never wanted to trade my best friend for a $4 million company, ever. Brett Gilliland Nope. Nick Cavuoto But it taught me a lot of really amazing things. But I just followed the path naturally of life and now I count it as a lesson and it’s been absolutely amazing of the people I get to bring healing to because of it. But like I don’t ever feel go, I don’t ever feel bad for making a bold request. Never. And again, that comes back to that principle of giving and receiving. Most people have an issue receiving. It’s not giving. Most people be, there’ll be a doormat, giving everything away until they have nothing. Because again, it brings into the nature of like the victim mentality that most people live in. But when we live in an abundance mindset, We actually can receive, not, not to give, but we receive simply because our hands are open. It’s a natural byproduct and consequence of being somebody who could be responsible to hold it. So it’s like weight too. It’s like how much can you hold? How much can you hold? Cause money likes to move, so it’s gotta be a current, it’s gotta go through you. It’s not like Donkey Kong gets all the bananas, then he hoards them. You’ve gotta have that great mindset to be able to give unconditionally to people who can never pay you back. And then also on the other hand, the ability to receive, to be the trusted resource. And that’s what I’m learning a lot in my life right now. Brett Gilliland So I’m gonna go two spots there on, on a couple things you said. But number one, I think that the abundance to receive, um, when you ask for help, I think also when your intentions and your motives are are right. Right. You know, the abundance of giving and receiving is you are going to be a good steward of that. Whether that’s money, whether that’s time, whether whatever it is, you’re, you’re gonna do the right thing. And I think that’s where for me is asking people where are their intentions and their motives, right? What, why do they want that thing? And if it’s for the wrong reason, you’re not gonna get it. Right. So you gotta get down into the nitty gritty man and figure that out. Nick Cavuoto Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, man. Yeah, it’s, you know, and it comes out in my message, right, because I’m like, Hey, I need to raise 50 million. Not to create the next fix and, you know, run off to The Bahamas. It’s because my wife’s father was murdered when she was three. And I, I’ve watched the struggle, I know the nightmares that she has at night. I know what her mother has had to deal with because she lost her fiance when she was 23 years old. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Nick Cavuoto I know it. I know it cause I’ve seen it and I’ve lived it. And so that’s the thing that sends, you know, shivers down my spine is the amount of conviction that comes with the request. And I think that that’s a, a, a teetering line on that like whole idea of integrity and invitation is also the opposite side, which is conviction. You know, some pe I’ve heard many people sayin my life, they’re, they’re like, you’re the best sales guy I’ve ever seen in my life. And the worst all at the same time. You don’t follow any process. You don’t do anything that you’re supposed to do, but you’ve done $200 million in sales online and it seems like whatever you do, just like people, they just enroll automatically. I’m like, it’s because I have conviction and most people don’t. Brett Gilliland Yep. Yep. So Nick Cavuoto … I know my gift, it’s to overcome objection with spiritual truth and with a high level of emotion, Brett Gilliland That’s solid man. Nick Cavuoto I’ve studied me. I know me. I know me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland But again, that’s important too, right there. I, you, I know me.I’ve studied me because, you know, I, I look at me, it’s this black journal right here, right? And it’s, it’s sitting down with that, and it’s asking myself questions. It’s, it’s taking the ink pen and, and writing down notes and turning off technology and getting to know yourself. Because the better you can be, then the better you can be at home, the better you can be at work. Uh, everywhere. I have four children as well, right? And so, uh, it, it’s freaking crazy, right? And, uh, I have four boys and you know, everything you pray for, we, we’ve got the, the energy, right? They, they don’t lack energy, but, um, but I have to slow down so I can speed up. And I think that’s, that’s my call is always people. The one thing, what could you do? Since July of 2005, I’ve been spending time in these journals, you know, and I think it’s critically important. So let’s go back to your best friend and where, where that one hit me was, uh, my business partner, Tim Hammett and I, we talk about this all the time at Visionary Wealth Advisors, is, is about your values connection, right? We’ve, we’ve seen where values connect and values don’t connect, and of course we wanna spend time in the values connection. Did you see as, I mean, looking back now, if you can peel that onion layer back. Were there flags maybe in the past with your best friend that didn’t seem right, that now you’re like, oh yeah, he just robbed me from a freaking 4 million business. Now I can see it? Nick Cavuoto Hmm. You know, that’s a really good question, man. Um, my short answer in even looking in, in retrospect is no. And I’ll tell you why. The last like lunch meeting that I had with him before this whole thing went haywire, we had to hire an operator for the company. I’m a visionary, uh, very much. Um, I need to be the tip of the spear. Like I just don’t thrive as being the stick. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto And that’s totally fine. I know my placement, I know what I’m, you know, I need someone else in asset management and people management and all that, but I just need to be way out in front. And, uh, he was, he was, uh, by trade and analyst. So he was really good at a lot of the client delivery aspects of like just doing the work that was required, the monotonous, consistent tasks. So, but he, the gap was that like I couldn’t reduce my percentage of visionary enough to be an operator. He couldn’t increase his percentage from being kind of like, Client delivery, you know, in that space to move into like running the actual company. Yeah. And so we had this gap in the center and we had to hire for it. And what I saw was the shadow of unworthiness come out of his life, which was by exposing the gap, even though I was very comfortable with it, because I know me, right? I’ve been in the personal development game for, you know, 25 years andI’m 35, if that gives anybody an idea of when I started this journey. So again, I know me and, and he wasn’t in that same position, and here was the kicker. This is what he said. He had such a hard problem with me hiring somebody in that position. They said, listen man, I want the title. And dude my eyes, I mean, they could have fallen outta my head. I said, wait, what? He’s like, I want the title, like I value the title, the position of running this company. And I said, dude, this is a serious problem because I value results only, like, of course, truth, honesty, integrity, all those things. There’s virtues that I live by, but in the, in the process of a marketing agency, I’m like, the only thing I value for the people that we serve, we do what we say we’re gonna do and we doit. That’s it. Brett Gilliland Yep. Nick Cavuoto Like, it’s the integrity of those things. And he didn’t, he wanted the, the C level title and that literally to the point of the fracture of our relationship was the thing that he wanted most. And to me, that’s just heartbreaking. And that’s why I, I said I never could have seen it coming because, you know, him and I had been friends since we were about, you know, eight years old. And I look back through the whole journey and I’m like, never was there any time of when he felt, or that I could point back to of where he felt so unworthy that he needed someone to give him a title in order for him to actually find significance. And I do believe in the concept of if you wanna be significant, you can go grab a gun and put it to someone’s head and you’ll be very significant. Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Nick Cavuoto You’ll also go to jail, but you’ll be very significant for that moment. And I don’t think that’s what it is. I think he wanted to belong. And I truly now in retrospect go like he wanted to be apart of something and he just didn’t want to lose his placement. It wasn’t position, it was his uniqueness and his unique value. He didn’t want that to be overlooked in the process of bringing someone else in. And that could have been a really easy conversation. But you know, things just get inflated and feelings get involved and you get to a place of where you go like, well, we gotta deal with what it’s, so then after that, the bitterness hit. And that’s what got really unfortunate, you know, stealing stuff, underselling all the clients. I was losing like 15 clients a week, you know, I mean, just, just from underselling them by half. My lawyer was like, we’ll, we’ll put this guy in jail. I mean, it’s, it’s to that point and I’m like, not gonna do that. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Not gonna make this guy pay for a mistake for the rest of his life. Because he is also been there for me in a lot of seasons oflife of where I needed someone to be there. And I was just like,I’m not gonna kick him when he is at his weakest hour. And I took the brunt of that, but I know the payoff has already come and it’s gonna continue to come. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto So yeah, that’s integrity, man. I will. Brett Gilliland That is integrity, man. And uh, it’s a lot of people would not do that. Let, let’s spend some time on meditation. I had a aha moment today in my meditation this morning. I don’t, do you meditate? Nick Cavuoto Yeah, absolutely. Brett Gilliland Okay. Um, I had never heard this before, but the app, I was listening to my meditation this morning, talked about your brain being like a snow globe and, and it’s weird how things in your life happen again, those God wings. I remember last night we were putting out Christmas decorations in our home and you know, at the end of the night, now we gotta go on the light tour, or I called around the house and get all the trees and you know, all the wreaths, I mean everything off in the house, which is great. It’s beautiful. Um, but the snow globe was on, and I remember it’s got all the stuff going crazy inside the snow globe. And I didn’t think anything of it, but I remember it. I vividly remember it, picking it up last night. And then this morning meditating. Uh, the teacher in there talked about, um, your mind is like a snow globe, right? And meditation is that moment of calm, right? When you put the snow globe, you turn it off, it’s done spinning, whatever it. There’s calmness, there’s no snowflakes running around in the globe. Right? And I don’t know why that hit me like a ton of bricks, but it’s like, man, that, that’s a perfect reason cause so many people tell me, I just don’t get anything from meditation. I’m like, well you haven’t done it long enough. Like, well, I can’t think about anything else other than the 55 things in my mind. I’m like, well you haven’t done it long enough. Right. So when you hear me talk about the snow globe, what comes to mind for you? Nick Cavuoto Well, in the context of people’s inability to be present, I think is the thing that drives me, you know, uh, drives my thought. Because being present in the, in the process of meditation, of slowing down the slow globe, uh, you know, the, the snow globe and, and allowing things to just settle in is the number one reason of why we have I think a lot of the challenges that we have today. Being present is incredibly difficult. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Everything’s vying for our attention. You know, I met with a Dallas monk in, uh, February of this year who changed my life. And what he, what he did was he called BS on a lot of things in my life, bad systems and broken stories. And one of the things that he said was, you know, Nick, in your life, the challenges that you’re facing will never stop until you stop having events in your life immediately followed by your emotion. Your emotion then determines your belief. It’s a three-step process. Events, then emotion, then beliefs. So now your beliefs are actually enslaved to your emotion of being a victim.Because most of the things that happened to us, we don’t go, yes, I did that we’re like. Brett Gilliland Right. Nick Cavuoto Oh yes, this is great, but I don’t deserve it and I’m probably gonna lose it. So, you know. Right. So, so here’s what he said. He said, Nick, events are gonna happen in your life. Those immediately need to follow a belief that you already hold, that you know is true. From that belief, now it can act as a filter to the emotion that you experience. That’s why gratitude is so important, because gratitude is the consistent place of being unbelievably present to say thank you. Think about it. How many people go through the drive-through every day will go back to that analogy who just grab their food at the window and just drive off. They’re gonna say, thank you. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto My mentor has taught me. He said, if you say thank you every morning and every night before you go to bed for 30 days and everybody did it, the whole world would be a different place. Yes, because gratitude is the most powerful thing in the world.But secondly, because people would be unbelievably present, they put their phones down for, so, you know, for all intents and purposes. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto They would lock eyes and be emotionally available. But the cycle or the carousel of despair is when we keep playing the BS stories, the broken stories, the bad systems, and we have to clear that out. And I watched this guy, I recorded the session. I watched this guy force me to be present cause I’d go back into the old story. The old story is the inability to, it’s shaking it up when you shake the snow globe. That’s the old story. I need to create chaos again cause I can’t be present. And I think one of the greatest antidotes to, to focusing on your ability to be present, meaning in that moment of meditation, in that moment of letting the dust or the snow settle in the snow globe. I think that moment is saying, what am I committed to? What am I committed to in this next season in my life? If I was not half-hearted and I was unbelievably committed, I could actually focus for two seconds and allow my imagination to drift into what’s possible. I didn’t come up with generating50 million for a foundation for my wife’s father on purpose. Idid it being present and allowing that information to come in. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Strong, strong, strong, my friend. Uh, talk to us about, um, your event. You’ve got an event coming up February 2nd and 3rd. Uh, Align Con. Nick Cavuoto Yes, my friend. Brett Gilliland Tell me. Nick Cavuoto Align con 2023. Man, it’s gonna be absolutely incredible, man. Um, you know, I deal with a lot of people who are experiencing some type of ending in their life and then wanting to start a new beginning. And, um, I think that true alignment, so this is whole, the whole concept is around alignment. I think true alignment is the path, the pathway for you to experience greater impact, greater abundance, and true fulfillment in your life. So it’s, it’s about being present. It’s about leaning in, it’s about figuring yourself out. You know, COVID was one of the greatest gifts we ever received. Again, here’s the, you know, the alternate perspective. It was an amazing gift cause it forced people to call BS on their own lives without someone else having to do it for them. Do I really like driving three hours every day to, to go to work? Do I really like going in the office when now I know I don’t need to. Do I really enjoy this bull crap job that does nothing for me?And I have been giving the last 15 years of my life into it. It forced people to, to, to focus on their external, internal, and philosophical problems, which allowed them to ask a deeper question. Guess what that question was? What do I want? I’m helping people align to their wants and I want to get them out of this place of trying to feel, feel or figure out, like they’ve gotta do it all on their own. And just following effortless ease, flow and finding results. I think no matter if it’s in their business, their team, or their life. By being the most powerful aligned version of themselves.And here’s the crazy thing, and I’ll give a little hint on this.When someone comes to me and says, Hey, I would love to figure out my purpose. I can sit down and figure it out with them in 10 minutes, sometimes quicker, but it never takes me more than that. And I have people do this all the time. I have no idea what my purpose is, or I’m gonna, I’ve lost, I’ve forgotten what it is. And I go like, okay, let’s sit and have a conversation. And there’s a modality of tools that I leverage to help them figure out what is their life pur- purpose, what are their greatest gifts? What is their greatest contribution in the world? What does that look like? And how can they leverage them in order to do their greatest work faster? And dude, I had people who are, you know, athletes, um, people who are entertainers, um, people who are entrepreneurs, people who are in leadership positions. They all have the same conversation. And so I’m here to be the seer, the guide, to be able to go unbelievably present, I don’t think time’s real, which is to my benefit because I think all we have is right now. So I don’t think about the past, I don’t think about the future. I think about right now, and I live an inspired life of going like, well, what do I want? And by doing that, I figured out how to master this for myself.And then now the amplification of that is truly what I know is to be my greatest contribution to the world, to live an inspired life and help other people do the same. I think the gravest question that just breaks my heart is, what am I here to do? I can cure that so fast. People will be like, dude, what kind of mojo? You gotta get in the vortex. I don’t know how to else to explain it. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Love it. So where do our listeners find more about AlignCon? Nick Cavuoto Align con, nick cavuto.com/align. You can also just look upAlign Con 2023 and, uh, likely find it there right on Google.And, um, yeah, would love to have, love to have you there.And, um, we can put a promo code in the show notes as well.Um.. Brett Gilliland Sweet. Nick Cavuoto I think that’d be great to do for your listeners. Brett Gilliland Yeah, we’ll definitely do that. We’ll definitely do. Speaking of that, uh, you, you mentioned earlier mentors, um, how, how important is it for you to have a mentor slash coach, uh, in your life. Nick Cavuoto Oh dude, it’s everything. Um, you know, mentors are people who are where you want to be, uh, that you can ask directions to and say, Hey, how’d you get there? Um, mentors also, they don’t want your money. They want your, um, they basically want your mindset. They want to be able to transform the, the version of you that you are right now. They want to be able to help you transform that and basically help you prosper. One of my mentors, I said to him, I said, dude, I, I don’t even know how I would ever repay you. And he said, oh, no dude. You don’t see how this is going, man. Like it’s not about what I’ve given to you. Do you understand what you’ve given to me? And I was like, I never thought about that. And he’s like, yeah, cuz that’s, that’s where your challenge is and your ability to receive is now you’re questioning your ability to give. He said you needed someone to show you the path, to light the path. I needed a companion. And we took walks together for 150 days during the pandemic, every single day at 5:00 AM. And this dude changed my life. I mean forever, forever, generational impact. Um, and you know, obviously I still talk to him every day. Um, so it’s just incredible. But yeah, mentors are, I think the cheat codes to life. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto It’s also, I think, the way to, you know, to take personal responsibility of what it is that you feel called and compelled to do. If you truly believe that you have a lot to accomplish here on earth, you won’t even question the power or accessibility to a mentor. Brett Gilliland Yeah, and I think too is like learning from ’em, right? I mean, if I can learn something from you that maybe took you 10 or 15years to figure out, and I’m just now starting down that journey, why the hell would I not want to know that information? Nick Cavuoto Totally. It comes back to the idea of receiving. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Again, we don’t ask for mentors or we don’t ask the people that we really wanna be mentored by for help because we don’t feel, um, worthy of receiving the help that they’d have to give. My mentor tells me all the time, he says, my calendar’s your calendar, anywhere you want to speak, Nick, you just tell me. I’ll just, I’ll move out of the way so you can speak. And I’m like, there’s no way this guy’s for real. So talked to his team last week and I was like, I’d really love to do some speaking engagements and, and, uh, she was like, sounds good. We were kind of waiting for you to do that. It’s been six months. Mm-hmm. And I’m like, yeah, well, you know, whatever. So she gave me the, the process and the plan. I said, well, you know, David mentioned, he said, my calendar’s your calendar. Does he really like, mean? Like what’s the process? How can I be helpful and useful so that I know how to make the request? And she was like, no, he literally means it. So he just put a guy in three stages last week because David couldn’t do all the talks at the event, and there were 74,000people there. The guy never would’ve had access to go speak on those stages had he not just done what asked for help. And being like, Hey, I’d love to speak. Do you have anything available? It’s a simple freaking question, but again, it’s our worthiness.It’s our ability to receive. So I’m still practicing. It’s a daily thing, and I’m a heck of a lot better than I used to be. And also, of course, always in alignment, always in integrity with what we want on our of our lives. So.. Brett Gilliland It’s been a common theme here, man, thinking abundantly, right? If I ask for help, that means I’m an abundant thinker because I don’t have my ego. It’s saying, I’m not gonna ask this dude for help, man. I’ve got it all figured out. Right? Nick Cavuoto Hmm. You know, I’ll mention one last thing that I think will be interesting for people to think about. Most entrepreneurs that I encounter, they come to me because they’re like, I think this is what I want. And what I’ve realized is I need to help them heal their will. They’ve tried and they’ve been damaged by disappointment so many times, and they’ve tried and got up and then got punched in the face again, and they’ve tried and they’ve got up. They tried to be a good parent. They try to be a good entrepreneur. They try to do the finances right. They try to offer the products, right? They try to be great in their client relationships, and they’ve tried, and they’ve tried and they’ve tried again. Only to come, like the guy at the at the pool at Bethesda who almost touched the water for his miracle to happen, who almost got to the place of seeing his promise come to life, who almost got to his place of healing and curing the fracture of the past in order for them to step in their future. But someone else walked over them, stomped on their head in the process and said, sorry, come back and try again, and you can wait for another miracle. Those are the people that I help. I help people heal their will. So they can get back up again and they can give it another shot, but this time I’m going with them. They’re not walking the journey alone. And let me tell you, when I come outta left field and give whatever it is that you’re facing a haymaker to the face, I promise you that that thing will be defeated and gone so that we can move on to the future. But that’s a unique gifting that God gave me, and I’m more than excited to pull out the lightsaber and do God’s work. So if someone needs that type of confidant, that type of energy in their life. Then you better come to Align Con and uh, and get your butt there. Brett Gilliland I love it, man. So where do our listeners find more of Nick Cavuoto? Nick Cavuoto Yeah, man. Uh, at Nick Cavuto on social. Nick cavuto.com. And uh, yeah, just hit me up. Send me a message and, uh, I’d love to, love to just appreciate your thank you if that’s what comes my way. Brett Gilliland Awesome, man. We will put all this in the show notes. Dude, I had tons of takeaways, page and a half worth of notes here.Uh, what a great use of time and, uh, and appreciate you spending, uh, some time with us and giving your wisdom to our listeners. My pleasure, man. Thank you for the opportunity.I really appreciate it.

“Scott Stallings is an American professional golfer who plays on the PGA Tour. He quit all sports at the age of 12 except golf after going to the 1997 Masters and watching Tiger Woods dominate the field. In his 2022 season, he advanced to the TOUR Championship for the first time in his 12th season, finishing No. 29. He is involved in the Wounded Warrior project, and his biggest thrill in golf was teaching the sport to wounded veterans in the Army.” https://youtu.be/hl5yYFkb2fk Brett Gilliland Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland, and today I, you know, I’m pretty fired up when I’m on these things, but today as the golfer that I’m, I get to interview PGA guy Scott Stallings. What’s up, uh, PGA Guy? What’s up, Scott? How are you? Scott Stallings Good, man. How are you? Thank you for having me. Brett Gilliland Oh, thanks for being here. It’s, uh, it’s been, uh, it’s been a great year for Scott Stallings, hasn’t it? It’s been a pretty good year. Scott Stallings Yeah. And I would, to your listeners, uh, they need to understand your persistence and patience, uh, with my schedule and, uh.. You know, I, I was not trying to be elusive by any means, but my schedule is definitely, uh, very unique in my, I try to put all these things in, you know, one kind of timeframe. So appreciate you bearing with me and.. Brett Gilliland Absolutely. Scott Stallings To anyone, to anyone that listens. Like he’s definitely putting in the effort to try to get people on here. So, and I can definitely app-, I can definitely appreciate that. Brett Gilliland Yeah, absolutely. I, I call it pleasantly persistent. I’ve done that for 21 years, you know, building a business and, uh, spending two decades of, uh, you know, early on, especially man, when you’re calling people, you gotta stay pleasantly persistent in life, don’t you? I think that American flag behind you says effort and attitude. So you don’t have the right attitude. You don’t put in the effort. And whether you’re on the PGA tour, you’re in wealth management, you’re making bourbon, whatever it is, uh, which we’ll talk about, you gotta put in the effort. I appreciate it, man. I appreciate you staying with us, but if you could just, you know, for our listeners, give us a little lay of the land, what, what Scott Stallings is about. What’s made you the man you are today? Scott Stallings Well, a lot of things have made me who I am today. Uh, probably, uh, my wife, my kids. Um, I’ve wifed Jennifer, we just celebrated our 15th year wedding. Yeah, that’s right, 15th uh, anniversary. Um, I have a, uh, six-year-old daughter, Millie and a nine year old son, Finn. Um, so, you know, as a, as a husband and a father kind of gives perspective on, you know, kind of keeping you grounded and, um, I, I have one of the best stories I have from, I mean, I just finished, I play on the P G A tour. I know you’re just mentioned that, but I just had the best season of my career and one of my favorite stories of the, of the season is I played at the tour championship and my son came and he decided he was gonna watch every day, which is super weird for him. He’s like a nine hole kid, and like, I’m gonna go have some snacks. I’m outta here. Like, and so for whatever reason, he watched and I shot, I shot three over one day. I shot 73. And it was like real sketchy. Like it sh-, it could have easily been 80, but I mean, it was just kind of everywhere. Brett Gilliland One of those days. Scott Stallings And, and we had one of these pictures, we had a buddy of ours that does some social media and pictures for us. I like Finn, comes and gives me a hug, and it looks like this super, super sweet moment between a father and a son. And he said, you played so bad today. Brett Gilliland . . That’s awesome. You’re ready to snap your driver in half and he’s talking about how bad you’re playing. Scott Stallings Yeah. Nothing like a nine year old perspective to keep you grounded and understanding that, you know. Well, you know, while I am playing in one of the hardest tournaments in the world to qualify for and the fact that, well, there’s only 29 of us, and just kind of how we start, but, uh, a nice perspective to kind of understand that, you know, hey, I’m still dad. Uh, you know, and, you know, kind of what I do on the grass isn’t necessarily define me as soon as I walk out, but I was definitely one of my favorite stories from the season. Brett Gilliland That’s great. That’s great. Can you, I mean, I’m gonna dive in on some questions, just stuff that, you know, if I ever have an opportunity to talk to somebody like you, I just, I find that the, what I would call me, the, the pinch me moments, right? That you, you grow up. You were a, you know, Tennessee Tech, we talked about that before we started recording. You know, I played at Eastern, you played at Tennessee Tech, same conference. Uh, obviously your outcome was a little different than mine on the golf. And, uh, but that’s okay. But anyway, we, you know, just those pinch me moments, man, when I get to go play a nice golf course. But you’re doing that, you know, every week that you choose to play on tour. My question is that drive in down Magnolia Lane, man, for those golfers that know what I’m talking about, that masters, you make that turn in there, can you tell me what that’s like. Scott Stallings I mean, it’s definitely very surreal. Um, I had an opportunity to play, I graduated Tech in ’07 and I had an opportunity to go play in 2009, and I turned it down and everyone’s like, I, you know, you’re big time in Augusta. Like, no, like I think as a professional golfer, like that’s something that’s earned and not something that’s ever taken for granted. And who, who knew? I mean, I, I, I never knew if I was ever gonna have a chance to go and I ended up having a chance to go to the tournament, not play at the, the course, but you know, just kind of being there and kind of, I remember taking pictures of the golf course and, and kind of just in my mind, just imagine like watching guys prepare and different things like that. And so 2011, I win my rookie year and I have an opportunity to go and Tennessee’s unique in the fact of like the starter on number one, toby Wilt is, is a, lives in Nashville and so they do a pretty cool, uh, trip for first time Nashville’s participants where they bring you and they give you a chance to like, I mean the whole experience. You stay overnight, you do everything and, and just sort of get you comfortable with just everything that is Augusta National. And you know, you earn the opportunity to play and participate in the tournament, but also, you know, if you don’t go and do all that other stuff, you’re, it’s hard to do both at the same time. Enjoy the chorus, enjoy the tournament, but then you’re trying to play and prepare too. So it’s kind of hard to do both at one time. So they kind of do something to kind of help you get through that, which is amazing. And I remember the first time we got and got there at night, had dinner. Uh, kind of did our thing and then we were gonna play first thing in the morning. And if, if people want to, you talk about your pinch me moment, one of the hardest prayers I’ve ever said in my entire life was in the back of the clubhouse the next day. And it was like a three hour frost delay. So you’re finally getting a chance to play, you know, get a, we’re gonna be there for two days. And I walk out and I’mlike we’re not playing today. I mean, like, you could just see the frost, like an inch thick and like, man, what’s gonna happen? So thankfully, you know, the frost burned off. We ended up having a beautiful day. But at the time, uh, you know, they, they were sending just cuz there’s so many people, they were sending people off one in 10. Uh, which is kind of rare there, but I was, I wanted to play from number one all the way to 18 and kind of just get it over with. And as far as like my first round and then I was gonna go to work. Lauren Roberts, uh, was my playing host, you know, kind of show you around as far as, hey, you need to pay attention to this, which is incredible cuz I’ve had the chance to go and now a couple times with some different guys on their first time. More just man, enjoy the course for the first time. Don’t think about playing the tournament. Just think about all you did to kinda get in in the opportunity that what it took for you to get to this moment. And then it’s like, all right, then we can kind of go to work and start thinking about all the different, all the other stuff that kinda goes into it. But Lauren was with me, we get ready to hit and then there was this voice that was pretty recognizable that was behind me. Um, so this is December of 2011. And this guy said, son, here, it’s your first time. Let’s see what you have. And it was Arne. Brett Gilliland Oh, no way. Scott Stallings And I mean it was, there was four dudes on a tee box, me, Lauren Roberts, Arne, and this random person who I have no idea who it was cuz all I saw was him. And like I always joke that with a lot of guys, especially when they start struggling and stuff, the voices got real loud, real quick. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And the world started going fast. But I hit a good drive and um, uh, ended up having an opportunity to spend some time with him that night. Uh, he kind of held court and like the, you know, kind of up above and the top of the clubhouse that night before. Had a few drinks with him, got to hear some really, really funny stories. Um, and then, uh, then showing around playing April, playing the tournament. I go and Toby, who was the starter, he said, you’re more nervous in December or April. I was like way more nervous in December. I said, I’m used.. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Guess Arne. Scott Stallings Yeah. I mean, you’re standing four feet from Arne and there’s no one else. I mean, like, I’m sure he could hear every thought that was in my head. What I was thinking. So I mean the tournament, I mean there’s pressure and everything, but that’s a little bit more of what we’re used to. Um, you know, sort of the, the openness is something that is, we’re something that we’re not used to. So, yeah. You know, but that was a long story for a short question, but I don’t shy away from, and, you know, any opportunity to get a chance to go to Magnolia Lane. Pretty incredible. I had a chance, my partner at Pebble Beach is a member. Um, and another good friend of mine from Memphis is a member and had a chance to take a couple of my friends. Um, the last, you know, probably six weeks or so, I took my caddy and one of my best friends from home and uh, man, we had a probably one of the coolest trips I’ve ever been on my caddies, caddied in six masters that he is ever played, so.. Brett Gilliland Oh my gosh. Scott Stallings And he, he played the back tees the first round. I mean, he’s a good, probably, you know, four or five handicapper, you know, doesn’t play much. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And we got on some of those back tees and he said, man, I like these holes way better when you’re playing. Brett Gilliland That’s awesome. That is incredible. Yeah, I’ve got a nice little bet. Won’t talk about the dollar amount, but it’s a, uh, a hefty bet with my best friend since third grade Derek, on who can get on Augusta National first. Whoever does it has to pay the other guy some cash. So that’s what we’re working for. But, um, and so let’s talk more about them. So do you have those moments or, or when you’re a competitor, man, this is what you do for, for a living, right? This is your day job. Do you have that moment when you’re walking down the 18th hole and you’re like, holy smokes, name the course, right? AugustaNational, Pebble, wherever it’s at. Like, I’m doing this for a living. Scott Stallings Hmm. I’ve had some moments on the good side and the bad side of that. I remember, like I, I get my card in 2010 and then turned around and you know, this is when the season started in January. So basically you get your card in December. I got an Orange County National and then turn around and I’m a rookie at Sony and like I played the practice round, you know, I started off number 10 and I told my caddy like, man, number 10, it’s Sony. Like if the wind’s down at all, like, I mean, you drive the green. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Scott Stallings And I mean it, it’s honestly, not that like tight of an area to hit. Yeah. Um, and then we get up there and it’s like down off the right, like couldn’t it be any more perfect just to ship a driver up there on the green? And I got over it. I got that driver in my hand, I’m ready to go. And this is the first shot ever on tour. And the starter’s like, and now playing his first ever professional event on the PGA tour, he announces my name and I’m like, oh no. And I, and then as much confidence as I had going into hitting the shot is as little as I had once he said that, cuz the lights got bright and the voices got loud. I ended up hitting seven iron off the tee. And I mean, to go from driving the green to seven iron and I hit seven iron off the, off the tee, I hit a wedge to like 10 feet and I made birdie. So I made birdie. But still, like, everyone’s like, oh, that’s sweet, man. You made birdie your first ever haul tour. It’s like, man, I, I could not have wished out anymore than I already did. Brett Gilliland So my arms are like jello standing up there trying to hit. Scott Stallings And I mean, man, I’m, I’m like thinking I almost need to hit three wood. I’m so amped like, uh, you know, I might hit this thing 50 yards over the green. I’m so pumped up and I ended up hitting a seven iron, like a chunk pull down the left side of the fairway. And, uh, I mean, but that’s stuff like that you’ll never forget. And yeah, you know, I had a really rough start to my rookie year. I missed my first five cuts and then almost made the tour championship, ended up finishing like 40th. So kind of a, a full range of emotion. Kinda everything that goes into it. There’s some really unique, everyone remembers their first time playing with Tiger. You know, the first time, you know, kind of being an event that he was a part of. Winning tournaments, different things like that. But, but having a chance to, you know, over, this is my 13th season on the PGA tour and I’ve had a very, very fortunate to have what I consider the best job in the world. And, you know, I don’t necessarily take any day for granted. You know, I had some parts of my life where, you know, definitely it was some, the water’s got pretty muddy and didn’t really know what was what. And so I feel very fortunate to have some people come alongside me and, you know, push me in the right direction, kind of help me, you know, kind of understand what a healthy lifestyle looks like, and do a little bit better job of taking care of myself and all the different things so I can, you know, pursue a career for a long time and, and be the husband and father that my kids deserve. And my wife deserves, and, and to try to be a good steward of, of an opportunity that the game has, has given me. And I try to do whatever I possibly can to, to leave it better than I found it, and to use the opportunities that it provides to, you know, help create different environments and better environments for those kind of around me. Brett Gilliland Yeah. So let’s, let’s, uh, let’s spend some more time on that. I mean, you went from a guy, um, you know what I had in my notes here for my research, going from 252, 252 pounds down to like, what, 190, 195. I mean, what was that? Knock on the, knock on the shoulder, if you will, or that, Hey, man, let’s, let’s get your attention, because it’s hard to go from where you were to where you’re at now, right? They call you one of the best shaped guys on tour. How did, how did you.. Scott Stallings I wasn’t, I, I, I wasn’t in shape to now sort of in shape. That’s what I tell everybody. Yeah. Um, man, it was, you know, sort of a combination of just as long as, as long as I played good, I could do, excuse me, whatever I wanted. You know, there was not really, and it wasn’t like, man, I was like drinking, partying, whatever. It wasn’t anything like that. It was just, I was, there was no plan. It was, I kind of ate what I, I traveled like, man, I, I got a good buddy of mine, uh, that has a sand. He is like, man, I rode all the rides. Like, I, if there, if there was a cool place to eat, if there was breakfast, lunch, dinner, you know, whatever. I mean, there was no habit in there that gave you any indication that I was a professional athlete. And, you know, people will kind of attribute that a bunch of different ways. But truly, man, I like my diet, my sleep, you know, my training, that was zero. Uh, you know, all those things, you know, were just, I was sort of like a ticking time bomb as far as just a kind of recipe for disaster. And unfortunately, like I was the direct recipient of it, it was no one’s fault but my own. Um, you know, thankfully I had some people come around me. I was about 30 years old and I just was tired of feeling like crap and started asking some questions. And then, you know, everyone always says, man, you remember that? Anybody that’s ever trained, anyone that’s ever tried to make that improvement in their life, when they go and it’s like, all right, I’m gonna do something. I got one of my closest friends, he just got some health insurance, uh, redone. He said, man, I saw, uh, I saw a number on the scale I hadn’t seen. They gave me a few months to kind of get it back together, and then I can reapply. And he comes and he’s like gung-ho, like, man, he’s ready to run through a brick wall. And we give him this 20 minute workout and it literally just put him on the ground. And it was nothing like, nothing to where was that first moment? Like, you’re gonna get worse before you get better. I mean, there was getting worse and then there was what I did, which was literally having the wheels fall off. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings But I, I needed to have that, I needed to understand that, you know, I was my fault as far as how I got there. And, you know, this is it. Like, I don’t know if what you guys can see, but this is my body. This is all I get, and I need to be a good steward to that and, and take care of the things that it provides and, you know, put myself in a little bit better spot where it is at least a conscious effort to try to improve myself mentally, physically, you know, whatever that is each and every day to try to be better than I was the day before. And, I didn’t do it alone. I had a bunch of incredible people, way smarter than me, kind of helped push me in that right direction and it kind of helped me to get to where I am today. I never set out to do the fitness thing ever, ever. Brett Gilliland So did they, did they come to you and like somebody you know and trust and respect and say, Hey dude, man, to have a long term success, you gotta, you gotta. Change this direction? Or was it more internally like you’re sitting there and you know, you’re like, crap man, I, I need to change what I’m doing here. And then you find.. Scott Stallings A little bit more like that. And I had a really good guy, my trainer PT, Adam Curley, he, we worked together for a while and, you know, he sort of, kind of helped put me back together when I was coming back off the road. Um, And you know, kind of had a transition point in his life where he had an opportunity to go and travel with us, you know, on the PGA tour. And we always joked that when we first started working together, like his goal is to try to get me to go to the gym. Now it’s like, do you wanna practice today? Do like, alright you your workout’s 45 minutes, or you know, now it’s like the opposite. So he is like tampering. He said, man, I’ve been on both ends of the spectrum and you know, now we’ve kind of found like a good middle ground, so.. Brett Gilliland Well that’s good. That’s good. So talk about that, about like, what is that fitness plan for you? Obviously when you’re traveling, I’m assuming when you’re on tour in the week, you’re, you’re still doing some things, but the harder workouts are done at home. So what does that look like for you? In- including, you know, sleep, uh, recovery. I think you wear a whoop bracelet. I wear one of those too. Those things are phenomenal information. Um, and, and so what’s that like for you that, that accountability, sleep recovery, all that? Scott Stallings Yeah, I tell people a lot. It’s not a matter if and when, it’s a matter of what time of day and that’s, that is applicable to everything. And, uh, like just cuz you can doesn’t mean you should. And there’s like, I got a lot of like these random one-liner zingers that just sort of stick with me. My one for 23 is, I don’t want to deal with problems that I inherited. I want to deal with problems that I created and, you know, people can, like, there’s pro-, like all problems aren’t bad things. Like I was telling you about my travel, uh, earlier, like that travel problem that I have right now, it’s not really a problem. It’s a great thing. It’s something I work very hard to have the opportunity, but still, like, it’s still travel. It’s, you know, a long way from home and you know, kind of all the other different things that kind of go along with it. But just managing it and kind of understanding, you know, and try to put yourself in situations where you at least have your hand on a little bit of everything. And you know, try to do your best to not be blind, decided by certain situations that you had nothing to do with. And that’s applicable for everything. That’s life, family, relationships, business, golf, all sorts of things. And so that was kind of my goal for 23. You know, if it kind of stays outside that parameter, I really don’t want have much to do with it. And, you know, help me be a little more focused on the things that I, you know, with, with my family, with my life, with my career, and kinda all those different things. So, yeah. Brett Gilliland So that leads me to Mike Riley, uh, buddy of mine, Mike. He, uh, I asked some guys some questions and he said, well, how do you set your expectations for the year? And, and so let’s talk about that. But before we go into that great question. I wrote down, I don’t wanna deal with problems I inherited. I wanna deal with problems I created. That is phenomenal. So how did you come up with that? What’s that thinking? And then to Mikey’s point is how do you set those expectations for the year? Scott Stallings Well, that came out of a conversation with, uh, one of my really close buddies. Um, and we were talking about, we had a friend of ours, uh, get audited. And we somehow just a very long conversation about all the new IRS and I could care less about talking about all that, but just like, man, like, you know, professional athletes are just, you know, our pri- prime target. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And especially people that are independent contractors and you know, basically our entire life’s a write off in some way, shape or form. And, and I was like, man, I am, I am not getting, I am not dealing with an IRS person over something I had nothing to do with, and it just sort of manifested out of that, and I just didn’t ever thought about it again. And the more and more I just found myself started. You know, different things and, and you know, I found myself being a part of conversations, uh, you know, on tour, you know, you bring up Liv, you bring up all these different things. Like, man, I have nothing to do with that. I have literally nothing to do with that, uh, you know, sort of my thoughts on it or one thing. But, you know, at the end of the day that. I, that doesn’t mean anything, so I’m not really going to mess around with it. And it sort of just found to be more and more applicable and it just came to, I want to do, I wanna deal with problems that deal with me and not deal with anything like, you know, outside of what I’m doing on a day-today basis between my wife, you know, my family and my career, and kind of all those things are intertwined. That’s kind of how it started. And so now I figured out a way to make that applicable to everything. Brett Gilliland It’s a great quote, man. It really is. And so how do you, what’s that look like for you? Do you sit down in November, December, maybe now, whatever the timeframe is. And do you, I, I mean obviously you got a plan for next year. You gotta know when your plan and when the tournaments are and stuff. But do you have, like, are you a goal setter, a goal planner? And if so, how do you, how do you walk through that process? Scott Stallings Uh, yes and no. Um, a little bit more of like a mindset, and that’s kind of it. Like I, you know, like Aura will pick a thought or this and that, like 2022, uh, we called it, uh, the, the word was variance. And my stats analytics guy, Hunter Stewart, came to me in Napa in September of that would be ’21, kind of transferring, you know, kind of how the fall season goes into the regular season. And he said, you need to create as much variance as you possibly can in your game. He said, you know, you’re basically, you’re, you’re stagnant. And he said, you’re a guy that’s gonna gain 2, 3, 4 shots a week. He said, you’re just getting your head beat in. He said, I’d rather you lose 10, gain 15 and net five over the course of the week where you’re gonna miss a cut by 12 and almost win. He said, that’s the guy that’s gonna make through a championship. He said, you need to become more like that guy. And so that was kind of the idea. So I was with him last week, uh, in Carterville with my coach, uh, Scott Hamilton and we were just kind of talking a little bit about it and before you started recording, you know, have a couple different areas to improve as far as golf wise. Um, but the same thing, like, you know, take a little bit more ownership of, of some of the areas that need a, uh, improve upon. But it’s not necessarily like, all right, I wanna win. I wanna make tour championship. I wanna have an opportunity to make, uh, a cup team. Like, if you’re on the PGA tour, those are not your goals. You’re doing the wrong thing. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings Like, so I think that stuff kind of goes without saying, but it’s like little intangible stuff. Like I went, uh, the, the previous year I wa in the, you know, short game area, I was losing strokes. Uh, very, very minuscule. But over the amount of time of volume of rounds that we play, I was losing strokes from basically like a quarter of a shot. It ended up being three quarters of a shot, a tournament from inside 30 yards, and transfer a year past By just changing a little bit of game planning, a little bit of strategy, and a little bit of practice. I ended up gaining two and a quarter, three shot improvement, and all I did was work on one area. So three shots over the course of 31 events is a lot. Brett Gilliland Well, and you look at even the money, right? I mean the, from the number one player in the world to the number hundred player in the world, you’re, you’re talking, you know, a stroke or two, right? I mean, that’s.. Scott Stallings Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland There’s not much difference. And that’s what people don’t think about is the difference in those, in those golfers and what it means to your family, you know, financially. So it’s a big deal. And before we started recording, you showed me you’re a TrackMan and all that stuff. And you were getting your, your variances, I assuming, dialed in to where you would talk about, you know, this sandwich game. So walk our listeners through that. What, what does that look like for you? How are you dialing in these wedges and what are you working on there? Scott Stallings A little bit of, it’s sort of a, like a practice goal of, you know, like this. I don’t know if this is technically a golf podcast or whatever, but if you have some golfers on there, I’ve got a very unique delivery in the fact that I don’t have a very big back swing, but I can hit the ball pretty far. You know, a little bit in the sense of like, You know, I have really long arms and sort of a relatively, you know, shorter frame, you know, relatively the length of my arms. So it looks like I don’t take the club back very far, but when you deal with off speed shots and knock and, you know, sort of like not full. It’s a very, very small window in regards to like what’s full and what’s like half. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings Cause my back swing’s basically almost half as it is. So trying to develop a little bit better plan for like off speed shots like Pebble Beach, you know, not a lot of spin, you know, kind of getting ready, a lot of wind at Kapalua and kind of just developing a, like a little bit more of a game plan in a, in a, a template as far as you know how far certain clubs can go based off of, you know, sort of swing speed and a little bit of just, it’s not necessarily like I think on the course like, alright, I’m gonna swing at 80 miles an hour. But the more repetition and everything you go, it’s like, alright, I know what that feels like and I know how to fit these shots into these certain windows as I have, you know, kind of based off of there. It’s kind of a different way to practice cause I don’t really have enough of a backswing in my full swing to sort of create what they call like a clock method. Um, cuz basically my backswing stops at about nine o’clock as it’s on a full one. So, um, just different things like that and, you know, kind of make, you know, figuring out ways to practice where, you know, be a little bit more creative. And I’m not a range guy. I don’t like hitting balls, but I can sit there and kind of mess around on a TrackMan and, you know, kind of find little nuance things here and there as far as you know, maybe kind of pick up, you know, a little bit of more consistency in certain areas and, you know, kinda work around from there. Brett Gilliland So what advice, if any, maybe cuz you’re, you’re so darn good at golf, you probably don’t understand what the, the average Joes like myself and even higher handicaps, what we deal with. But what, what’s one thing you would tell us that we need to probably work on most? Uh, knowing we don’t have a lot of time to practice and all that stuff. Scott Stallings Work on your chipping setup because most people, they get the face right and the feet left to try to get the loft going on there. But really, if you look at the best players in the world, we put most, most of the best players in the world, when they come to chipping and pitching the ball, they go square to shut. Which means at least, so imagine like if you have your feet and your club face, like at some point they’re going away from each other. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings You’re trying to make the ball go straight. So you’re dealing with a lot of timing. And you’re dealing with a lot of slippage, like the ball kind of slides up the face, you know? So having a consistent, I got a really good buddy of mine, uh, a New England guy, and he’s like, man, I, you know, I, I finally kind of get my game into a spot. Then it gets cold and I kind of lose, like, gimme something I need to work on. So I just gave him some simple like chipping setup advice. He’s like, man, if you can learn to play from a square setup, And make where the ball contacts first. Especially people that deal with like winter golf and you know, coming out of like snow and everything when you go back and play, I mean, especially where you are, you deal with really cold weather, go back, snow, ice, all the stuff that kind of goes in and then you get that like nasty mush and ball first is important. Kind of all the stuff that kind of goes along with it and, and everything. And, um, You know, that would be the thing that I would work on. And then understand the, you know, play more break. Those are two simple things that I would kinda from there. Brett Gilliland Yeah. It’s funny you say that because on chipping, I would consider myself a pretty good chipper, but I, I’m, I do have my feet open and my club more at the target, right? So if I’m, I’m open here, I’m going right there at the target. That’s how I’ve chipped my whole life. Scott Stallings yeah. But, but if people have like the Flagstick here, you know, face here, feet there. Like at some point it becomes luck. Brett Gilliland Oh, absolutely. Scott Stallings If people operate off a square club and they manipulate their setup kind around there, then that’s kind a, a good place to go from there. Brett Gilliland You’re going, right? Your feet are aiming at the target. And your club head is, you’re, you’re like this or would I hear you? You’re blocking that. Scott Stallings Yeah, yeah. No, it’s, it’s body and, and feet shut to the target right? And face is at the target and kinda work off of, and kinda work off of that. So where you can kind keep Loft and present Loft as much as you possibly can. You watch those like old like semi-boss videos and like peak in the bunker, they get shut and drop the hands where the club kinda stay and they can keep loft on it. So just kinda a different way to kinda think about it. Brett Gilliland Like, well, I know I’m doing the offseason, changing my pitching game. Um, back to mindset, man, on, on days that maybe especially early on in your transition, um, to where you’re at today. How, what was the mindset preparation to get you to the point where even on days you didn’t wanna do it, you showed up? Scott Stallings Uh, I mean, nothing, you know, worth having came easy. And you know, I’m not sitting here trying to just bang you with quotes all day. But I mean, at some point, like at some point, like you gotta take a look at the fact of like, man, truly wanna aspire to be one of the best players in the world. Like, you know, no one’s gonna give it to me. Like, I could think of a million things I would’ve rather be doing today than running through this wedge test that I’m about to do when we’re done. But I know that at the end of the day, like. It’s gonna help propel me and do the thing, like, I’m gonna wish that I did it instead of, you know, coming back, you know, and being, and regretting that. You know, I’d rather feel the, that way, be, be proud and understand the opportunity that I, I took the time and effort to try to help, you know, me get better, whatever that is. Instead of being in a situation where I was like, I should have done, I should have worked a little bit harder. I should have done this. I should have done that. Like, I don’t operate in the past, I don’t operate in the should could have, but I do op, kinda have that in my, in the front of my mind while the, while everything has sort of taken place. Brett Gilliland Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It makes me think of a quote, I just pulled it out here, that Trevor Moawad unfortunately passed away, but the author of it Takes What It Takes. If you’re a reader, read that book. It was phenomenal. But, uh, he said, average people become average by doing average shit. Average is a choice. Greatness is a choice. There is no magic, only decisions. And I’ve got that written down in this journal I work because I just, I absolutely love it. Right. It is a choice. The power of choice is huge, isn’t it? Scott Stallings Absolutely, and I think people like the, I helped the Tennessee golf team here in, in Knoxville, where I live, and it’s funny, just the mindset as far as. You know, they had a coaching transition a few years ago and just the different things and you know. One day I was just kind of over this kid just kind of peppering me with questions and you know, sort of just like a little bit like, you know, smart ass, you know, freshman whatever. And a kid that I’ve known for a long time and I was like, man, at some point you’re gonna understand that I’m truly trying to aspire to be one of the best players in the world and you’re nonsense questions are doing me no good. So yes, I am gonna train today and I am gonna do something to work on my game. So that being a prerequisite, if you have any other questions that are different than that. Please go ahead. I’ll be happy to answer it, but if you’re asking me did I work out just for the sense of like wasting air, you’re wasting both of our times. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And that’s the same thing. I was like, you know the question should be, all right, what can I do to continue to, to try to want to do those kind of things instead of just thinking about BS questions. Just gonna waste both of our time. So I completely agree with that and understanding that you know, I mean, the perfect example, I had to figure out a time to train today. Uh, we took my, uh, my wife and my kids went to the Grand Ole Opry, rushed home last night, got home about 1:30. Literally just, I mean, peeling my eyeballs back and coming in it’s like, man, I gotta hit the ground running. Cause if I don’t do it in the morning, my day’s gonna get away from me. Have some Christmas stuff this afternoon. It’s like, I gotta get up, get the kids, you know, to school kind of whenever they decide to wake up. It’s time to get it in and then kind of do this kind of stuff and kinda go, not a matter, not a matter if and when, just a matter of what time to kind of fit it in and.. You know, I do a lot of reverse engineering. Like I, I kind of plan my day out ahead and kind of understand the best way to kind of create a little bit of margin if I have to. And I mean, that’s all choice. Like I don’t have to do that, but I can sit there and, and spin my wheels and waste time and, and be inefficient and, and frustrate everyone around me, including myself. And, um, so just taking a little bit of more time and effort going into, you know, planning that out, you know, goes a long way for everybody, myself included. Brett Gilliland I just, I think it comes down to integrity, right? I mean, I think about too, you, you know, what you just mentioned there. I don’t wanna gloss over that. You’re out till 1:30, right? Doing the Grand Ole Opry with the wife and kids, you know, there’s a thousand things you could think of than sitting with Brett Gilland on the Circuit of Success, but yet it’s integrity. You committed. And you’re doing it right. Whether you wanted to be here today or not, you’re here. Right? And you showed up. And I think that’s part of life too, right? When we’re chasing greatness, whether it’s in golf or business, you just gotta show up, man, and you gotta do the freaking work. Scott Stallings And I think that’s a big thing too. Like, you know, being a part of what you’re committed to and kind of understanding all those things, uh, is a big part of it. You know, it’s like, like any person, you know, you quit once, it’s easier to quit again. You start getting the reputation of a flake or different things like that. And that’s applicable to everything. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings That’s your family, your relationships, all those things that kind of come in, in doing those things like. And even if it’s the motivation, I don’t want to be that person. Like that’s enough for some people. But I think it kinda like carries yourself just by the way that kind of go into a lot of different things. But you know, uh, and there was, to be honest how we got ourselves in that situation. Uh, it helps if you look at the kids’ school calendar, we were convinced that our kids got outta school on Friday. They don’t actually get outta school till this Wednesday. And both of them have their school parties and everything, so they were adamant. It’s like, Hey, we want to go to this, but you’re getting us back. And I’m like, I’m made for this. The mini tours that college golf built me for. Driving through the night. I’m ready. Brett Gilliland You’re ready. Come in, dusting off the dust and going that, that leads me actually some question that Timmy Riley, Mikey’s brother, uh, wanted talk about. He played golf at University of Illionis. And he said when you were on the NGA Hooters tour. How did you, how did you fund it and, and what did you, what was your typical week like on that? Scott Stallings Um, we were actually telling some mini tour stories to my son last night. I said, buddy, like on mini tours, like you have no money to stay in a hotel or anything. So you basically would drive through the night to find any opportunity, a place that would let you crash on their couch or a house, or kind of whatever that looked like. You know, uh, I was very fortunate. I had a lot of people kind of come around me. I had a good amount of sponsors that kind of got me going my first couple years and kinda allowed my wife and I to be together. Brett Gilliland Yep. Scott Stallings And. Uh, you know, planes, trains, automobiles. We stayed in a single wide at a tournament. Um, we did a, we did, like when I say a bus like this was not a good bus. Like this was like a bad bus. Um, anything that you can think of to get to and from a tournament. Yo, uh, everyone has said if you could write a country song about your career, I said, man, single wides to private jets. I said, we’ve done it all. Brett Gilliland You’ve done it all. Scott Stallings Yeah. I mean, there’s a country song in there somewhere. Brett Gilliland Yeah, absolutely. Just gotta add a dog to it or something, which I think.. Scott Stallings Yeah, very much so. Brett Gilliland Any, are you superstitious? Scott Stallings No, I’m not. I’m probably so superstitious about not being superstitious. I, I would say I’m very routine and my caddy and my wife would probably be better cuz they would, they’re kind of like the same person, uh, just as far as their personalities. Uh, my wife is significantly better looking than my caddy. Brett Gilliland That’s good. Scott Stallings Uh, but uh, just as far as their personality, they probably could tell some stuff that I would do that I don’t realize I knew. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings Especially when I’m playing because my wife said like, I don’t even need to see at you. I can see about two or three mannerisms. And I’m like, yeah, that’s him. That’s him out there. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings So.. Brett Gilliland Well think about your wife too, man. Back to those days when you’re, you know, you’re not on the private jets, you’re on the, the crappy bus. I mean, think of that support. Scott Stallings Yeah, I mean we, we started, we told some hilarious stories and you know, think about like mindset and some of those pinch me moments and different things like that. We had this one tournament where it, I mean, basically we tried to play golf in a hurricane and it was the hardest rain I’ve ever seen in my life and we didn’t. This is before Netflix. This is before anything. This is when Redbox first came out. So just think about how old I am. Um, and we went in and we were trying to figure out what we were gonna do cause it was essentially they were canceling the tournament for three days. Then we were gonna just have like two day just free for all, play as much golf as we could once the storm passed. And uh, I went in and we needed a DVD player, cuz this place we were staying was pretty much, I barely had four walls. And, but it had a tv. It’s like, man, we’re just gonna hammer some Redbox. Just being inside, it’s not really safe to, you know, storm’s awful. And I remember telling, it’s like, I’m gonna go to Walmart. I’m gonna buy this, uh, DVD player and if I play bad, I’m gonna return it. Cuz we’d literally have zero money. Uh, and you know, just something to kind of occupy our time for the next few days. Well, I ended up burning the last hole in the tournament, and I finished third and I made $16,800. That’s the biggest check I’d ever made in my career, and this is my 15th year as a pro. 13th year on the tour, I still have that DVD player. Brett Gilliland Oh, that’s awesome. Scott Stallings Like I, every time I see it, I look at it. I think about that time. I know exactly. I could take you to that Walmart, to that aisle in Savannah, Georgia. And just remember just grinding on it like, man, how am I really gonna spend. It was $39. And I mean that’s truly like, I mean I had some great dudes come around me and support me, but I mean, you know, 39 bucks to play a practice round in a course that you’re getting ready to do a Monday qualifier at, or 39 bucks to kind of occupy your time in the middle of nowhere in Savannah. Like, I mean, those are conversations you had to have in the mini tours. And I think. Uh, I mentioned a good buddy of mine went the Cubs, uh, when he was playing Winter LA Ball. He said they went to this place and they couldn’t afford, uh, any of the room service or anything of this place where he was playing. And, you know, basically they were taking waters from the field and they have a very similar story to us, and they have a George Foreman like sandwich maker. I mean, it was like $30 again. And you, they have a beautiful home, uh, here in Tennessee, and you go and they have this, you’re like, what in the world is this thing doing here? It’s like, yep, it’s staying. That’ll be, that’ll be with us forever. And we don’t even know if it works. But it’s staying. It’s staying. Um.. Brett Gilliland Well, it’s just a mental piece, right? I mean, you think about where you came from. Scott Stallings Yeah, very much so. And I think a bunch of people. So throughout your career you need to have different things. You need to have things you’d aspire to, but have, have other things around you that remind you of, of kinda where you came from and understanding of how not to lose that. And, um, I’ve got a, a wife that fills me with humility on a daily basis and and, and challenges me in a lot of different ways to kind of be a, a better person in a lot of different areas. And, but that’s one of those things that I look on and, you know, very happy to have been a part of my career and, and something that I look at and it’s a conversation piece or whatever, cuz I don’t know the last time someone actually used a DVD player. Um, just with all the stuff that kind of goes along. But hey, we have one. And it, it, it’ll be with us for a long time. Brett Gilliland I love it. I love it. Uh, last two topics. I could talk all day, man, uh, on this stuff, but, uh, I wanna talk, uh, live golf and I wanna talk about bourbon. You OK with those two topics? Scott Stallings Oh, no. I should have some bourbon then we can really get into it. I mean, who knows what I might say. Brett Gilliland Exactly, exactly. Yeah. I told you my goal is to not make the headlines on this stuff. So, but, but I do wanna talk about the, uh, the live golf stuff and what your thoughts are on it. Give us your perspective. Scott Stallings I think live, uh, has pushed the tour into make some changes that they probably were in the process of making and kind of fast tracked them in. There were gonna be some players that took advantage of the situation and myself was included. Um, I had a lot of. Um, opportunities this past season that I probably wouldn’t have otherwise. I mean, making the tour championship, understanding all the stuff that went in with making it to East Lake and the exemption, and, uh, Maui and majors and all the different things that go in effect on world ranking. Um, you know, I was one of those, uh, beneficiaries. Um, I think, uh, the tour’s a little shortsighted in regarding to how they viewed the threat of live, you know, sort of as like, Hey, this is not gonna happen. I wish they’d done a little bit better job as far as, you know, preparing for the, you know, the sort of shock and awe that came, oh, they actually did it. I was like, yeah, they’re gonna do it. But at the end of the day, I think that the PGA Tour is the best tour in the world. I think that Live is, is an exhibition and it’s a, it’s, it’s very entertaining. Um, I, I’m not sure exactly how viable it is in terms of the way that their business plan is and with tv and that’s, again, I know nothing about that. So I’m gonna try to give my opinions on things that I know, not things that I hope or speculate. But I think that like them saying they had the best players in the world. They do have, their roster is very strong as far as guys that have accomplished a lot. But they have a, a decent amount of guys that were just the first people to say yes. Like there’s no legacy, there’s no understanding of how to qualify. You know, there’s, you know, no one had to go dig it in the dirt. Like Tiger was saying and, and figure it out and, and, and qualified against status. I mean, they signed their name on a piece of paper and, and, you know, kind of, you know, hitch themselves to a, to a horse that, that didn’t really know what direction it was going in. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And um, I think that, uh, it pushed the tour to kind of understand they needed to change some things, which I was a huge proponent of. Uh, as long as I’ve been on tour. And I think we’re gonna continue to see that evolve. Um, I think the tour has a big transition year in 2023, uh, preparing for 24 with the new schedule and some new partnerships that are coming along. And it’ll be very interesting to see how, uh, the fans and the players kind of react to, you know, for the, I think there’ll be some that are very, very positive. I think some that’ll be pretty controversial. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And I think too, I mean, they, they don’t have their story, right? I mean, think about that DVD story. I think back, even through my career, the things I used to do, and going and driving across God’s green Earth at eight o’clock at night to go to somebody’s house, and I mean, just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. I don’t think even the young guys that, the guys that don’t even know who they are, that are signing there, they’re not gonna have those moments. And I think there’s a lot to learn about life and about the grind and about winning in, in those moments, don’t you? Scott Stallings Yeah, very much so. Uh, I mean, but that’s not to say that like I was just not given an offer. Like, it’s pretty easy to say, oh, I did it, I turned it down. It’s like, yeah, I mean, like, so I never really had to, you know, face the music there or anything. You know, I, I think there’s a, a lot of scenarios where, uh, sorry, one second. My, I’m trying to figure out what I’m doing with my dog . Uh, but I think there’s a lot of scenarios. You know, it’s pretty easy to say, oh, I did this, I did that. When you didn’t really had to face a, you know, a whatever, a 10 figure offer or, or whatever, you know, people were getting figure, it’s a lot easier to sit there and like, you know, who knows what I’d have done in that situation. I’m happy where I’m at. I’m looking forward to the opportunities to have to plan on the PGA tour and, you know, hopefully they’ll continue to adjust, uh, for the better to kind of, you know, help us and continue to help us be the best tour in the world. Brett Gilliland Love it. Love it. Uh, let’s change the subject from bourbon now. What, what are you thinking there? What’s, if I had to ask you though, what’s your favorite bourbon? If you had one bottle you could have the rest of your life. What, what is it? Scott Stallings If somebody gave me a, uh, a barrel of, uh, I would probably do a barrel proof tailor, and that would, that would probably be it. I would give away everything else I have. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Scott Stallings And that would be.. Brett Gilliland That’s one. I don’t, I don’t have the barrel proof. That’s a hard one to find man. Scott Stallings Yeah, a high proof wheater is kind of my preference and uh, you know, I can be a fast consumer in a lot of different ways and so a little bit of bite and a little bit of proof goes a long way for me. Brett Gilliland I like it. So what do you see the future of Bourbon man? Cause it’s crazy right now, isn’t it? I mean, just even going to my local gas station here and what they’re wanting to charge for some of these wellers or other things, it’s nuts. Scott Stallings Yeah, I think they’ll be a big, uh, pullback and kind of where you get the year of authenticity in terms of their branding and uh, you know, 60% of the bourbon market in the United States comes from the same distillery. You know, in the middle of Indiana it’s just kind of a marketing plane and different things like that. I think people are playing on, you know, thoughts, feelings, and emotions, you know, creating a brand around a story, not necessarily what’s in, you know, cause what was in the bottle and what was in the barrel used to matter and it should matter to a lot of people instead of necessarily what the label says. And, you know, people play way more time and attention into the label and the story behind it instead of actually what the, the story that went into making the juice. So I’m way more on that side and.. Yo, uh, like I’m a Taylor guy, any wheat, but like you gimme some age Wild Turkey and or some old school like Heaven Hill. And man, I’m gonna have no problems. Brett Gilliland I love it. Yeah. The, um, I love the horse soldier story, man, that, you know, every one of those bottles is made and touches the steel from September 11th or from the, uh Twin Towers. I think that’s a pretty cool story. Scott Stallings Mm-hmm. Yeah. They, I mean, it definitely is. And they do a good job. And those guys are man, They drink some rocket fuel down there, and I just think that there’s a, you know, there’s some opportunities to kind of tell stories and there’s some opportunities to kind of make ’em up and, you know, unfortunately the way that that world is, is sort of 50- 50. Their story is incredible and you can go just down the aisle and you know, it’s the same juice and someone’s trying to tell the complete opposite story and you know, when you start understanding the business model of it and how you start source and how you, then you pot and still, and then you kinda go, whether you call ’em and then you age and mix and batch and all the different ways to create a business and a brand outta, you know, something that takes a long time to create. Uh, it’s a wild world and uh, something I’m very interested in and, um you know, very fortunate to kind of learn from a lot of different people that are way better than me. Not only in golf and fitness, but uh, the bourbon world as well. Brett Gilliland And see, it sounds like you’re dialing in that bourbon knowledge, just like you’re dialing 56 degree Wedge Man. Maybe we’ll see some future stuff coming outta Scott Stallings for some bourbon or something. Who knows? Scott Stallings Yeah, I got a long, I got a, I got a long way to go in that department. Brett Gilliland What, uh, final questions here. What, what, uh, what is something, you know, with the, this crazy schedule you have that your passions that you wish you had more time to, uh, to, to do. Scott Stallings Our kids play free program. Uh, something that we do a lot with in, in Tennessee. Uh, we’re adding more courses and different things and just more, be more hands-on, on the day-to-day. Like I do events, uh, some dinners, golf tournaments kind of throughout, but just to be a little bit more involved with the new beginners and kind of see that first time where the kids have a chance. You know, touch a club for the first-time. That’s kind of the goal of the program. Just take away all the variables of time, cost, and availability, and kind of giving people a chance to you know, to learn from the game that’s given me more than I deserve. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And uh, so I, I wish I had a little bit more time for that. Um, my wife has really started taking up, uh, tennis and playing and I said if I could take some time, I think I could be pretty good at it. But if you play about three times a year, you’re not getting better at anything. So, um, that would be probably it. Brett Gilliland Yeah, I like it. I like it. Well man, thanks so much, Scott, for being on the Circuit of Success. Like I said, you got a million things, uh, a million different directions you can go. Appreciate the wisdom. A lot of takeaways here for me today on the Circuit of Success and appreciate your time. Scott Stallings Absolutely man. Thanks for having me on and uh, I’m sure we’ll see you guys again.

Justin Su’a is the Head of Mental Performance for the Tampa Bay Rays of Major League Baseball. He works with players to enhance their mental performance to perform under enormous pressure. He has worked for the Boston Red Sox as well as the NFL’s Cleveland Browns. He is the author of two books,“Parent Pep Talks” and “Mentally Tough Teens” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2LDhBAxMnk     All right. Welcome to the Circle of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I’ve got Justin Su’a with me. Justin. How you doing, man? Justin Su’a Doing great, Brett. You’re doing great. Looking forward to the conversation. Brett Gilliland Awesome. Me as well, man. It is. Uh, we were talking before we hit record here, September 11th, 2018 was the last time you and I spoke five plus years ago. I can’t, I, I can’t believe it’s been that long. Justin Su’a It’s, it’s incredible. Yeah. It seemed like, uh, yeah. I remember, I remember our last conversation vividly. Brett Gilliland Yes, it was, uh, I, one of my favorite quotes that I’ve done this, see, you’re the 316th interview I’ve done now, and, uh, for some reason, one of the quotes you said is “dominate the level you’re at.” And, uh, I may be paraphrasing there, but dominate the level you’re at. Has really stuck with me and even a couple of my buddies. We’ve, we’ve continued to talk about it. Is no matter where you’re at in life, man, just, just dominate that area. It may not be exactly where you’re going or want to be going, but if you’re there, choose to be there and dominate it. So I’m gonna kick off with that man. Is, is your thoughts on that when you hear me say that from five plus years ago? Justin Su’a It’s, it’s really neat. I, I, I like the fact that you said that it’s a really good reminder because I think there are certain principles that hold true. They’re universal and they’re timeless. And I think that is one in particular that is a, just a simple reminder, uh, number one, dominate being, being, doing the best that you possibly can wherever you are. I think we still, even still, we live in a world where we’re looking ahead. We are, we are not where our feet are, we are not fully present. And I think reminding ourselves to dominate the level we’re at is to be fully focused and go all in on where you currently are and letting the outcome and the results take care of themselves. And doors will open to the degree that you put forth your best effort in the here and now. So I’m, I’m still, uh, I’ll still double down on that, uh, on that principle. And I, and I still believe it even five years later. Brett Gilliland Yeah. It’s so true, man. It’s, uh, and, and you talk about a lot as well as control the controllables. So let’s, let’s talk about that. When you, when you hear me say control the controllables, we’ve all heard it, we’ve read it in books, you hear it a million times from people, but what does that mean to you and how do you help people with that? Justin Su’a Yeah, I think it’s, it’s a simple principle, but it’s, it’s hard to execute at times. Uh, controlling the controlling controllables it starts with identifying, what can I control? I, I think asking yourself that question, looking in the mirror and saying, okay, the nature of my situation is very difficult. Uh, it’s it being able to look at the brutal facts of whatever you’re going through and saying, okay, what can I control of this situation. Now, with that, with that, it’s also understanding and identifying the things you cannot control. Now the things you try to control, but can’t, end up controlling you. There’s a phrase that you, you hear a lot of people say is you can control your thoughts, you can control your, uh, you can control your thoughts. We’ll just, we’ll just stop with that. Sometimes someone might not feel they can control their thoughts. Sometimes they might not feel they can control their emotions because of the nature of whatever they’re going through. And I think it’s very important to understand that, you know what? My mind is screaming right now. I can’t control my attention. I can’t control my thoughts. So instead of beating up on yourself over these things that you should control to be able to say, you know what, right now I can’t control my thoughts. Okay, what can I control? What can I, what, what can I grab a hold of? And sometimes it might be a very small hold on this tiny little corner of, of, of things that you can control and go all in on that. Another thing to identify as well is there are uncontrollable factors that are contributing to your success or your failure. It is very important to identify what those are as well. A lot of times we’ll succeed. Let’s say you have a good week, you have a good quarter, you have a good year. You need to identify and say, okay, what were things that contributed to my success that I had absolutely no control over? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a Because it keeps us humble. It keeps us grounded. But also when we fail and when we struggle, it’s also important to ask, okay, what were things that I could not control that contributed to my failures. That contributed, that contributed to my struggles to help you realize that, hey, there were things outside of my control that I couldn’t control, I can’t beat up on myself about because they were complete uncontrollable factors that I had nothing to do with. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And, and, uh, I think, you know, when I look back, I mean, last time we chatted again five plus years ago, you’re with the Boston Red Sox, and I believe maybe the Cleveland Browns, uh, now with the Tampa Bay Rays, you guys made the playoffs this year. That’s good. Uh, so you’re, you’re the, you’re the director, I guess the head of mental performance, uh, for the whole team. And so when you’re, when you’re with guys like that day in and day out, man, you’re with the best, right? The best baseball players in the world. Well, what are you seeing from them? Based on everything we’re talking about, dominate the level you’re at control, the controllables, all these things. What are you seeing that you can just sit back in the dugout and watch that and kind of almost in awe saying “This is happening day in and day out.” Justin Su’a What I, I like that phrase that you said. What I’m in awe of is anytime you are around elite performers in any industry or any domain, and I’ll speak specifically about the players who I get to see day in and day out, is number one is this, is this feeling that they’re not only pursuing greatness, but you’re all, uh, you’re not this feeling that you’re not only chasing, but you’re being chased at the same. It’s this constant angst of I wanna be great, but I know people are right behind me trying to be great as well. Brett Gilliland Right. Justin Su’a And when you are surrounded by people who are competing for the same thing, everyone has the goal to win the World Series. That’s the thing about goal setting. Everyone wants to be great in this level. Everyone wants to win. Okay? So what are the things that you’re doing? What are the behaviors that you’re setting up for yourselves, what are the systems, what are the habits that you wanna be deliberate with that will… where the, to, to the degree where the byproduct is success. And I think this group in particular, this, this level of performer, they’re, yes, they are pursuing outcomes, but they’re dogged and rig and rigid and relentless on their pursuit of creating high performance habits. And because they know, as they solidify their inputs, as they solidify those controllable habits, the output or the results will take care of themselves. And it has been neat to watch them have a front row seat, to watch them embrace the boredom of consistency away from the cameras away from away from the crowd. That is, that is huge. Brett Gilliland I mean, and you’re seeing that, right? Because I mean, you think about you get there, say the game’s at 7:10, I mean, you’re getting there what, one o’clock maybe even before that? Justin Su’a Yes. Even before that. Even before that. Brett Gilliland Yeah. So to your point, is that, that’s the boring, mundane type stuff, isn’t it? I mean that you show up, it’s not the same locker room every time, but in a sense it’s right square room, bathroom, some weights, little batting cage. It’s the same stuff every single day. But yet these guys show up even on days they don’t want to. and, and they do it. So do you find, I’m, cause I’m fascinated with this stuff. Do you find that this thing is just so ingrained in them that they don’t need to go to a journal or a, you know, a workbook type thing? Or are they taking notes on their selves, on each other, on other things? Like what are they doing that we can apply, what they’re doing in the locker room, that we can apply to the boardroom at work? Justin Su’a I think you brought up a really good point. I think they, not everybody, and I don’t, I don’t want to say that all athletes are the same. Brett Gilliland Sure. Justin Su’a All, uh, performers are meditating. All of them are journaling. Some are, some aren’t. Some try, some don’t. Some meditate, some don’t. Uh, but what is, but what I have noticed is some are willing to look in the mirror and say, okay, what do I need to improve and what am I, and they’re willing to make adjustments in order to approve in those outcomes. So for example, yes, there are some athletes who are absolutely journaling. Uh, there are some athletes who are meditating and they are very deliberate on their meditative practice. There are some who, rather than journaling, they like to talk about it, they want to self-reflect at the end of their game or at the end of the series or at the end of the series, uh, at the end of the month to be able to calibrate and recalibrate where they’re at to see their trajectory. Uh, there are some who practice visual visualization. There are some who don’t. There are some who are very mindful of, of, of the thoughts that they have going through their mind and their attention mechanisms that they use to, to, to narrow their attention. And some, not so much it, but, so I think that’s a lesson in and of itself. They are very aware of, of identifying what works for them. And, uh, they, they do what works for them and what works for one person might not work for another person. And they’re, they are very well aware of if they see a teammate doing something, rather than jumping on and adopting that same habit, they investigate, Hey, why do you do that? Why, how long have you been doing that? What works for you? Okay, let me see if I could either do something similar or taper it so that it works for me. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Yeah. The old steel shamelessly, right? I mean, if it’s working for your buddy, especially in sports man, people are so superstitious and, and, and I was talking to Daniel Descalso, he played for the Cardinals and amongst other, among other teams. But he talked about even the times when he is going like, oh, for 15, but you’re hitting the crap outta the ball, right? But you’re just hitting line drives right at the short stop or a line drive at the center fielder. I mean, those are the times where it’s so frustrating. And, and so what do those guys do to stay in the game even though they’re doing the right things, they’re not just, they’re just not getting the outcome that they want. Justin Su’a I think that the answer is in the question you just asked. Uh, separating the process from the outcome. And a lot of times we focus so much on the outcome, but sometimes the process leading, you did everything right. Everything, everything in your power, you did… you crossed your T’s, you dotted your I’s, you did properly, but you’re performing against the best in the world and there are things inside of your control and outside of your control. And you know what? You hit it right at a person or they made a great play or the, it just didn’t work out in your favor. And I think there’s a very powerful lesson to go with that, to not conflate decision making and results. We, we learned this in poker. I think Annie Duke, Annie Duke is a, is a very great example of this and teaches this. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a You cannot mix the two. Uh, just a a, a very simple example about this is just because you run a red light, you decide to run a red light and pass through the intersection unscathed. That, that doesn’t mean it was a good decision. That that was dumb luck that that don’t think. But on the same side, if it’s a green light and you decide not to go on the green light and another car comes barreling through the intersection and you would’ve been hit, or there would’ve been an accident had you gone through. That doesn’t mean it was a good decision. That was dumb. That was, uh, that was dumb. That was dumb luck. And so, or, or as you’re going through a green light and you get hit, that wasn’t, doesn’t mean it was a bad decision to go through the green light, it was bad luck. And so being able to understand and tease out and to say, Hey, the decision, the process was good. But the outcome wasn’t good. Don’t throw away the process just because the outcome was bad. And I say, I think they learn that very often here at the, at the highest level, but it’s an, it’s an easy trap to fall into. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Do you, I mean, I, I assume, and maybe I shouldn’t, maybe I shouldn’t assume that, but I, I gotta think that you’re even taking notes for the off season, right? I mean, things that you’re doing uh, in the off season, the people that you’re helping, I mean, are, are, are you a note taker? Are you, uh, taking mental notes, physical notes, like what are you doing to stay a student in the game for you to help your athletes and other clients get better? Justin Su’a Yes. I think there’s a couple of things. Number one is, is being able to have conversations to, to talk about what I observed and that’s why I think that the Axiom build relationships so strong, they could bear the weight of truth is so important to be able to ask an athlete, Hey, I’m noticing this. Um, tell me what you see, or tell me what your thoughts are about that. Hey, I noticed this. You used to do this. You don’t do that anymore, or you do this and you used to do it before, is that on purpose or is that not? And so this off season, this is a great time to be able to have a lot of those great conversations and ask them, Hey, what were your strengths? What were your weaknesses? What do you wanna do next season? And I think that’s, imperative number one. Brett Gilliland So.. Justin Su’a Number Two. Brett Gilliland I’m sorry, go ahead. Justin Su’a Uh, number two, it’s very important for me to continue to strengthen my skillset, whether it be learning more about neuroscience, learning more about organizational, uh, uh, behavior, learning more about how to ask better questions. Uh, you’re right, taking notes, taking courses, getting more education so that I can be a better, uh, a better resource for the people who I work with. Just like an elite athletes here they are trying to sharpen and get better and, and improve. I would be doing a disservice if I wasn’t trying to do the same thing on my end, if I wasn’t trying to learn and grow and understand and, and, and get better and sharp with my own skillset. And that’s where the off season is for myself and for the coaches as well. What can we do to get better so that we can be better resources for these athletes who are trying to get better as well? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Cause the expectations are high, right? I mean, you’ve got high expectations, but they’ve got high expectations for you and there’s a ton of guys and gals out there that, that want to put on that, that raise, uh, hat and come in the locker room every day. Right. So you gotta stay on your game, man. Which I think for us in the business world is important. You know, there, there’s people coming for your clients, your patients, whatever it is you do for a living. I mean, that stuff is always out there. So we gotta, we gotta stay a student in the game, I think is a, is a big deal. You, you put on recently on social media, you said, um, it was a post. I’m gonna paraphrase, but basically, you know, if you wanna set high goals, your lifestyle must be in line with those high goals, right? And so I think, so let’s talk about that because I don’t know if it was Bryce Harper or Mike Trout. I remember somebody saying, it’s basically a lot of guys just want to get to the league, but they said their main goal was to get to the Hall of Fame. And so that’s a different expectation, right? If I wanna be in the Hall of Fame, well, here’s my work ethic. If I just want to get to the league, well, maybe you get there and you last a week and then you’re gone and you’ll never come back. So, so talk about that lifestyle, setting high goals, and what we gotta do there. Justin Su’a Yes. Uh, people, uh, people underestimate whenever you set a high goal, uh, you also have to commit to the lifestyle that’s going to be required to achieve that goal. And what a lot of people do is they underestimate the cost of the goal. Like everything comes with the cost. And when I say cost, it’s going to, what’s it? Whatever goal that you set in any in your life, you need to ask yourself, what’s the cost of time? What’s the cost of energy, and what’s gonna be the cost of my focus? You have to honestly ask yourself that question, those questions, because the higher goal you have, the, the, the higher your expectations, the more it’s going to cost. And that’s just in anything, in anything in life. If you want, uh, more things that are more expensive or higher quality is gonna cost more. And you just need to add, just be honest with yourself. Do I really want this goal? Okay, great. I cannot underestimate how hard it’s going to be and how long it’s going to take, and so if you’re going to set a high goal, you need to ask yourself, what am I willing to do? There are trade-offs, and in order to pay the price to achieve these things, it’s going to require a cost, and so it might be you have to start doing some things. You have to ask yourself, okay, if I’m gonna achieve that, and this is the cost, what do I need to start doing? What do I need to stop doing and what do I need to keep doing in order to achieve this goal. And then once you start getting down that track, a lot of people will realize, you know what? This isn’t for me. This, this, this is not for me. Because if it was easy, everybody would do it. Everybody.. Brett Gilliland Everyone. Justin Su’a Would do it. But if you, yeah, if you wanna truly be consistent and and really achieve these things, it’s going to take a lot of effort. Now, another thing as well is you don’t have to do everything all at once. It’s all about being, chipping away and being consistent every single day and building the capacity to be able to stick with it for the long haul. You, where people struggle is they focus on intensity and they don’t focus on consistency. Focus on building these tiny, small habits every single day and then you slowly build it. Slowly build it, slowly build it. It’s that long term success. Um.. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a They, they think that success is built in a microwave when the reality is success is built in a slow cooker. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And I agree with that, and I think there’s, in my opinion, there’s, there’s difference in working at a motivation and working at a purpose, right? So, I mean, if you gotta constantly be getting motivated. I mean, day in and day out, you gotta listen to motivational speaker, you gotta get your pump up music, you gotta do all this stuff. I don’t think you’re real clear on what you’re trying to go do. Right? So I know for me, when I’m working in my purpose, helping people achieve a future greater than their past, when I’m doing that, I don’t need motivation. I’m doing what I’m put on this earth to do, right? But yet, how do we dig deep? And even on days we don’t wanna do it and maybe you had a comment there when you hear me say that. Justin Su’a It was so refreshing what you said. I, I took a deep breath cause I’m like, that was refreshing and that is true. Motivation is such a, it’s a, it’s a word that you hear a lot. I was talking to someone the other day and they’re like, how do I motivate my people? And that’s a common question, I think. Brett Gilliland Oh, sure. Justin Su’a Great leaders or leaders are asking, how do I motivate my people coaches? How do I motivate my athletes parents? How do I motivate my kids? But what the research shows, a better question is how do I create an environment where they motivate themselves? And even that word motivation is interesting too, because we never use the word motivation. The athletes not even on purpose. Yeah. The athletes at the highest level never talk about motivation because it’s discipline, it’s purpose. Like it’s, you’ve building these habits where when you’re creating a habit, at first it’s uh, uncomfortable, but then if you keep doing it, it becomes unbreakable. And motivation, it’s you have to be willing to do something even when you don’t feel like doing it. These guys, they don’t feel like eating the way they eat. They don’t feel like doing these boring mundane things. But you do it because your purpose is, is stronger than your desire to not do it. It’s like, Hey, this is just what I do. And an example I always give is like brushing your teeth. Uh, I always ask somebody, I’ll ask someone. Are you motivated to brush your teeth? What motivates you to brush your teeth? Assuming that you do it every day. And they’re like, well, I just, I don’t, I don’t, I’m not motivated. I just do it. You just do it. It’s like interesting. Brett Gilliland Right. Justin Su’a You just naturally do it. You’ll, you can create these habits where maybe at first you need motivation as you want to call, call it. But then it’s discipline and then it’s purpose, and then you get to a point to where it’s just what you do. Brett Gilliland It’s just what I do. Justin Su’a You just, it’s just baked. This is just what I do. It’s just what I do. And, and it’s, it’s with that consistency. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And I think let’s stay on the, uh, brushing your teeth. I always talk about the fact that, you know, it’s not, let’s call it twice a day that you’re brushing your teeth, but it’s not 14 times on Sunday. Oh, I got my 14 times in. Right. No, no, no, no, no. It’s twice a day, seven days a week whether you wanna do it or not, just for something that small, right? And so it’s the same thing. People are like, well, you know, I’m doing this on, uh, you know, on Sunday, maybe I get a big workout in, or I get this eaten ride in, or whatever it may be. But it’s not that, man. It’s twice a day, 14 times a week. And that’s what we gotta do with our personal lives as well. And I think, I found I was working and was successful early on in my financial advising career, but I was always having to search for that motivation. Because I wasn’t truly living the authentic life that I wanted to be living, right? Hence why I end up leaving there and starting my own firm is to work more on my purpose. And I think that’s where if in anybody’s driving down the road or exercising, listening to this, and you’re constantly looking for motivation, I would say dig deeper and go find your purpose. Would you agree? Justin Su’a I love that. Yeah. Purpose is, it’s your engine behind performance. Uh, you look at these athletes who are fast and strong and smart and talented. You’re gonna run into when you get to the highest level, everyone’s fast. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a Everyone’s strong, everyone’s talented, everyone’s smart. But it’s, it’s like, like a really nice car. Like, it doesn’t matter how nice the car is, if it doesn’t have an engine, it’s not going anywhere. It, it’s not going anywhere. Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Justin Su’a And so for me, engine, purpose is the engine that drives performance. Why do you do what you do? And sometimes it changes. There’s a time when I was sitting, I was with the Browns and an athlete comes into my office and he said, sue a man I’m just kind of going through the motions. I’m just, I don’t know what it is. I’m just kind of, I’m not as driven as I used to be. And the first question I ask is, okay, common question. What’s your why this? If you’re okay with it, can you share with me your why? What’s your purpose? Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Justin Su’a And he goes, this is what his answer was, to play in NFL. And right when he said that he stopped himself. And I said, did you just say to play in the N F L is your purpose? And he was almost embarrassed that he said that out loud. He had been in the N F L for three years, for three seasons, which is a very, it’s longer than normal. Like. Brett Gilliland Twice as long as the average, right? Justin Su’a Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he goes, oh my goodness. And I said, tell me about, he said what? He goes to play in the N F L was my why through college. It was my why through high school. It drove me, it propelled me, it lit me on fire. It helped me through the N F L combine. He goes, it was, it wa it’s what kept me going. It was my fire. And he goes, I didn’t think of changing my why until right now. I kept it, it got me here, but once I got here, I, it wasn’t until that moment he didn’t realize that he now needed to change his why, to find something to fire him up, to find something to propel him. We sat there, we went through his why. We created a new one and wouldn’t you know it, he’s still playing to this day, and that was four years ago and he’s still playing. He has some pro bowls under his belt, big contracts under his belt, and we talked about it. He goes I went through a little, I went through a little dry spell and it all it took was him recalibrating his purpose to light that fire under him. For himself. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a For himself to keep going on. So that’s why I like purpose so much is like, what is your why? Why do you do what you do? Because you’ll find more power to do what you do when you do it on purpose with purpose. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Well, so many things stand out for me right there. But number one is the, the teacher appears when the student’s ready. Right? I mean, he, he, but he needed that sounding board in you. And so again, people listening to this, I would say if you don’t have a coach or you don’t have a mentor, but you’re feeling stuck, right now. Just go talk to somebody and, and so many times when by us talking to somebody, we can figure it out on our own, right? Just like he started to figure it out. But now you got that confidant with you that’s gonna help you and walk you through it and be there for you. And that’s a big, big deal. Justin Su’a I, I like what you said, because I always get the question, what do you tell these elite athletes? What do you tell them? And the reality is, I respect their experience and I respect their expertise. They are highly competitive. They have done things that I couldn’t imagine doing. Brett Gilliland Right? Justin Su’a Um, even earlier in my career when I was with the military, when I, I’ve never been in the military. I’ve never jumped outta planes. I’ve never been in combat. I’ve never played major league baseball. I’ve never led an organiz-, a multimillion dollar organization. However, however, when I sit with these athletes and these leaders, it’s asking questions and providing a space where they feel safe to, to listen to themselves talk, creating a space where they can hear themselves think out loud. And they’ll say certain things and then they’ll be like, whoa, I’ve never said that out loud. I’ve had it in my head. I’ve never said it out loud. And, and the, the, the principle I always love to lay to lean on is if you want better answers, start asking better questions. Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Justin Su’a And so I will ask these questions. Hey, what is your why? What are you afraid of? What are your weaknesses? And to let them answer and let them put it on the table and say, okay, let’s look through these answers, and pick one up and say, do you, you just said this. Do you believe this? What about this? Okay, let’s put that down. Or what are you gonna do about it? Okay, great. All right. And so that’s what really I, I feel, uh, my role is, is to provide a space to ask questions so that they could answer their own questions and find their own answers. And, and then take action with what they’re saying. Then I, then I ask, okay, so there’s your answer. So now what, what are you gonna do about it? And help them with their decision making ability. Brett Gilliland Yeah. It’s a common theme that I talk about on here. So people are, uh, or will probably know what I’m gonna say, but the, the A D T ask don’t tell. And I always say that because if I tell you something right, then it’s just me as your coach or me as your boss, or me as your parent, right? Even our kids. But if I can ask, great questions. And they come up with it on their own. Well, it’s the gospel then at that point, right? It’s their idea. And I think that’s where we gotta get to. And I put this post on last week on social media, um, and I, it was just a blank sheet of paper. And I said, how do you start your 2023 planning? And for me, it’s a blank sheet of paper, an ink pen, and a bunch of great questions to ask this guy, right? The guy you look in the mirror. Justin Su’a Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland And so, uh, I think that’s really, really powerful to ask other people good questions that you’re coaching or working with, but ask yourself the questions too, man, because you’re laying in bed at night and you’re thinking, or you get up in the morning, you’re doing, your routines of working out and meditation, whatever may be, those questions are really, really solid to ask yourself. Justin Su’a Uh, it reminds me of, uh, so in 2020 we’re at the World Series. We’re playing against the Dodgers and I’m in the outfield during batting practice and I approach a player who had an outstanding regular season and I said, what do you got, man? How you doing? And he says, well, I’m really, I’m really nervous. Understandably so. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a And so my next question was, why? Well, well what’s, what’s on your mind? And he starts going, what if I’m, what if I embarrass myself? What if I fail? What if, what if I ruin it for our team? What, what if all these questions. And, and he and I sit there and I said, that’s, that’s a really good point. And then I say, well, what if, what if you’re the MVP of the World Series? What if you play so well, you, you sign a multimillion dollar contract? What if you are so good you’re on the cover of MLB, the show, the video game, the next season? And we just start laughing and, and he, he laugh, he laughs, he goes, I see what you did there. I’m like, well. Brett Gilliland I see what you did there. Justin Su’a What… I said, so essentially is two principles from this. Number one is when uncertainty is looming. When we do not know what the future holds, our mind is going to go to the negative. It’s the negative. It’s going to be the negative what if. We are gonna paint this doom and gloom because of the negativity bias as a protective mechanism. But another corollary lesson that we learned from this is when you ask yourself a question. Your mind is going to go and bring back evidence to answer that question. So if you’re asking yourself, why am I such a bad leader? Your mind is going to go and give you evidence to why you’re a bad leader. If you ask yourself, why does this always happen to me? Why am I so bad? Your mind is going to go and find and bring evidence to support that question. And so we always say, if you want better questions or answers, start asking better questions. Instead of asking that it’s okay, what can I learn from this situation? What is, how is this making me stronger? What am I grateful for? Okay, how can my purpose help me through this difficult time. And as you ask yourself these great questions, you are going to be able to build this support through the questions that you ask. And so what we’re aiming to do is help athletes and leaders and people enhance the quality of the questions that they ask themselves so that the outputs could be more productive. Brett Gilliland So let me ask you some questions then, since we’re all, since I’ve been doing it the whole time actually. Uh, but, uh, if I follow you around, okay, I’ve got a camera crew now. We’re gonna follow you around for a while and what am I gonna find day in and day out justin is doing without fail. Justin Su’a Without fail, you will see that there will be, you’ll see me flow like because of the nature. I have three teenager. Three teenage kids. Uh, we are in a smaller space in Los Angeles, California. We live in Florida. We have kids everywhere. So what you’ll see is how fluid, and my schedule isn’t always under my control now that I’m in the off season, I’m in the off season. I am, I am basically, okay, I’m here, I’m there with my wife, with my kids. You’ll see me do some kind of physical workout every single day. Every single day. Brett Gilliland Seven days a week. Justin Su’a You’ll see six days a week. One day I will like, I, I will, yeah, six days, six days a week. Uh, you’ll always see me, um, you will always see me do some type of learning with a book, uh, and you’ll see me take journaling. You will always see me doing some type of, of, of growth and reflection of the day. You will always see me check in with a player or a coaching staff of the team a hundred percent of the time, whether it be through text or phone call to check in with somebody. And you’ll always see me um, I’m going through, I’m, I’m going through school right now. I’m, I’m getting a PhD in organizational psychology and so I will always be reading a research article right now. Um, always 100% chipping away at my dissertation every single day without fail. And you always see me having some time with the family, like.. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a Games or, or whatnot. But I will always do that. Now, once the season starts, you’ll see, you’ll see those things, but it’s, it’s completely different schedule. Brett Gilliland Because you travel with the team every game, right? I mean, you’re gone just like you’re a baseball player. Justin Su’a Correct. Correct. And so I, there’s a little hesitation in that because sometimes when the team is on the road, I’ll stay, stay back with the, with the injured rehab players. Brett Gilliland Okay. Justin Su’a Or if the team is at home playing against a team, I am gonna be going to AAA to, to, to, to help there to see a player who like, so I will. But yeah, 90% of the time I am with the team. Brett Gilliland You’re sitting in the dugout watching the game that, uh, Brett Phillips was on the team. He was there when Yeah, he was there. Uh, that’s when you guys hit the, uh, or won the, uh, World Series, right? Justin Su’a Uh, when we won Game five. Brett Phillips. Yes. I had a. Brett Gilliland Yeah, yeah. Game winning hit. Justin Su’a Unbelievable experience. Brett Gilliland Yeah. He just got a, an award, uh, here in St. Louis on a board I set on the Musial Awards after Stan Musial. And, uh, he got an award for the work he’s doing, um, with a, with a girl, a little girl down there that’s sick with cancer and all that. It’s an amazing story. Amazing story. Story. Yeah. Justin Su’a Yes. Brett Gilliland Yeah, exactly. Justin Su’a Beautiful, beautiful story. Brett Gilliland Yeah, it’s a great story. So I just thought I’d share that, so, um. Justin Su’a That’s cool. Brett Gilliland Yeah. So when you think about your, uh, the power of framing, again, another post you put on there, talk to our listeners about the power of framing. Justin Su’a Yeah. Uh, framing really comes down to how you are interpreting your situation. I think it was Wayne Dwyer Dyer who said that when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. And even though we cannot control what is happening to us, we, we, we have certain amount of control, power comes in the way you frame it. Power comes in the way you interpret it. What is the meaning you are giving behind your current situation? And is the meaning helping you or is the meaning hurting you? And framing is a, is a, is a term that we use, but the way I like to talk about it are literal frames. When you take a picture and you put a frame around that picture, there are all types of. Glass frames, metal frames, big frames, small frames, and it’ll add a little color to that picture. And frames are expensive, frames are cheap, frames are homemade. And with macaroni. And frames are, are they’re different types. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a And that is exactly how we need to look at our situations. How are you framing this situation? Because how you frame the situation will impact, number one, how it influences you, and then number two, what you’re going to do about it. Now, I am not a fan. I’m not a fan of uh, of, of toxic positivity frames. I am not a fan, fan of Everything is great in awesome frames. Oh. Or or, or just discounting. Um, just, just trying to look away frames like, oh, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to, I’m, I’m not going to account for my role in this situation. I’m not going to account for my influence on how bad this, how I’m contributing to the problem. No, the best frame in my opinion, is being able to look at the brutal facts. What are the brutal facts? How am I contributing to it? How am I not contributing to it? Okay, great. How is this affecting me? How does it make me feel? Okay, great. What am I gonna do about it? And then what are the indicators that my process is right? Uh, because a lot of times what we don’t talk about a lot is we don’t talk about the lagging effects of a system. So for example, let’s say you wanna get in shape, you can’t go to to the gym for two weeks, eat right for two weeks and not see, or let’s just say, let’s say, let’s say one week and you’re not seeing any, any, um, outcome, you’re not seeing any benefits. Say, ah, I’m throwing it out the window. It’s like, no, you have to account for the lagging effect. You have to account that it’s going to take time. And so when you do frame and you do identify the changes you need to make, and then you need to make the change. Then you also need to account for the fact that, you know what, okay, I need to account for the fact that this is going to take weeks before I see the benefits of my effort. It might take months before I see the benefits of my effort. And so, um, framing has so many other concepts packaged into it, but I think it’s, it’s on the outset it’s asking yourself, how am I interpreting this? And also accounting for your blind spots and your own cognitive biases. We all have them. We all have biases. We all have these, these biases, these blind spots. That’s why it’s important to surround ourselves with people we trust who can hold us accountable for our own blind spots. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Yeah. That’s so big, isn’t it? I mean, and, but I also think that’s where you talked about earlier, your journal. I mean, I know for me, my blind spots, it’s where, and nobody’s perfect you, but that’s where you sit down and again, ask yourself questions. Right. But I also think when you were, it popped in my mind as I called the bounce back theory, is the framing. So no matter what happens in our, our day or weeks, or months or year, bad stuff, good stuff, whatever, um, how fast we bounce back from defeat matters. The most successful out people I’ve seen, right? They’re not going home and getting in the fetal position and saying, poor me, and, you know, crying about it. Now, they may be cry about it for a minute or two, but they’re gonna get back up, dust themselves off, and they’re gonna get back at it and figure out a way to get out of the, the crap that they’re in. Justin Su’a When I was with the Red Sox, with the minor leagues, I, uh, we were doing an example and I had a bouncy ball and I had a baseball, and I told ’em, Hey, which, which one is more resilient? Crickets, nobody answered, understandably so. It was a bad question. They didn’t know how to answer it. I said, okay, here’s a better question. Which one will bounce better when it’s dropped? From 50 feet up and they said, bouncy ball for sure. Now what if we had an egg and a bouncy ball? They’re like, oh, bouncy ball, for sure. And I said, the higher up we go, what’s gonna happen to the bounce of the bouncy ball? They’re like, it’s going to bounce back higher. I said, why? And they’re like, because what it’s made of, it’s made of rubber, it’s very resilient, it’s gonna bounce back. And then the question was are you, do you have the resilience of a bouncy ball or do you have the resilience of an egg or a baseball? And I loved what you said. And so we took, I gave every single player a bouncy ball to put in their locker as a signal. Hey, how fast are you bouncing back? And. Brett Gilliland I love that. Justin Su’a I think these tools, these to-, these mental tools that they’re building, that they’re using, all of these things you and I are discussing, is for the purpose of them to bounce back quicker. Brett Gilliland Yep. Justin Su’a Like to be be able to refocus faster, to be more resilient, to get your confidence back quicker, to whatever it may be, faster so that you can get back into the action so you’re not laying down and just feeling sorry for yourself. In computer engineering, the term is called refactoring. So what refactoring essentially is, essentially these, and I tell people, these athletes, they’re going to refocus. They’re, they’re resilient. They’re going to bounce back. But could we give them a tool to help them do it a little bit faster, a little bit quicker than they were before? And if we can do that, then that, that’s, that’s huge that, that helps so much. And so another thing as well is you are more likely to respond to adversity if you prepare yourself to respond to adversity. So a tool that we do, we call the bounce back plan, to go along with what you said is re-identify what are all the potential pitfalls that you’re going to run into. What are the things that you know over the course of your season, your day, your week are going to make you mad. A bad call from an umpire, Striking out three times in a row, having a bad game, getting demoted to AAA, like you just, all of these just put ’em down all down on paper. And then what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna write, uh, implementation intention. If this happens, then I’m gonna respond this way. When this happens, then I’m gonna respond this way so that we’re not running from it, so that we’re expecting it, and so that when that thing happens, all of a sudden they’re like, you know what? I was mentally prepared for this. I didn’t want this to happen, but you know what? I knew. I wrote down, this is how I’m going to respond. And where I learned this lesson was the military. For two years, two and a half years, I was with the soldiers of the US Army. And they planned for this. They planned for, okay, when your weapon gets stuck, this is what you’re going to do. When you. When your battle buddy is injured, this is how you are going to drag him outta battle or her outta battle. They literally prepare for worst case scenario so that when it happens, they’re amygdala, they don’t, they don’t freeze. They’re shocked, they’re prepared, they’re ready. They think to themselves, I have literally trained for this adversity. Uh, I heard stories of Michael Phelps and his coach, he would train in the dark, he would train with no goggles. He would train with foggy goggles and keep swimming because if this happens in the Olympics, we prepared for this and it’s not gonna catch us off guard. And I think that’s something that a lot of people, uh, don’t, I think it’s intuitive, but we don’t practice it. How are you going to respond when these friction pieces or these obstacles present themselves. Brett Gilliland Yeah, that’s so strong gosh dang, that’s so strong. I wrote that down to write it down. And then how are we gonna get out of it, basically, in a sense. And so to think about the power of visualization, so many times we think about, oh, I visualize myself doing this in a positive way, but that negative way, and it, it’s goofy, but it’s, it’s kind of true. I, I have a, I’m kind of superstitious and so I, I hit like I play a lot of golf and when I warm up, I have same sand wedge as my 52 degree wedge, my seven iron and my driver. That’s the three clubs I hit when I go to the driving range before a round. But I always hit four golf balls out of a divot. And it’s like, you know, you’re obviously, you’re playing the ball down and so therefore, what if it happens, man, I wanna be prepared for it. So I know that feeling when my ball comes out of a divot. And it’s just like what you’re talking about for this, I think that’s a strong, I mean a really strong exercise for people to do. Write down all the things that can happen and then write down, because now you’ve been there. Justin Su’a I really like what you, I want to really highlight what you just said about visualization. A lot of us, when we say visualize, we visualize, or a word I’ve heard people say is, man-, try to manifest outcomes. Visualize the house, visualize closing the deal. Visualize success. Now, now the problem, the, the, the problem with that is when, Mike Tyson said it like the, the, the famous philosopher, Mike Tyson, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Brett Gilliland That’s right. That’s right. Justin Su’a Now, what are you going to do if you only visualize the good when adversity strikes? You’re gonna panic because that didn’t align with your visualization. One thing that’s also beneficial is visualize yourself overcoming adversity. Visualize yourself hitting a nice a, a shot out of the divot. Visualize yourself how you’re going to respond after a strikeout. You’re gonna strike out. Don’t be like, no, I’m not gonna strike out. You’re going to strike out. How do you visualize yourself? How are you going to respond? To this difficult conversation. So let’s say you’re about to have this, give this very difficult feedback to somebody. Very hard phone call conversation you’re gonna have. You also wanna anticipate what is the worst case? What is it gonna look like? When he or she does not receive this feedback well, if they, what is the worst case scenario? How am I going to respond to this? We also have to attribute or prepare for that because you are more likely to respond effectively if you prepare for worst case scenario. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a And I think sometimes people are afraid to, they don’t wanna, no, no, I don’t want to consider that. I don’t want to put that bad juju out there. It’s like, well, then you’re gonna struggle when, when adversity strikes. Brett Gilliland So let’s, let’s turn the page now, because I know how important your family is, man. Let’s, let’s brag about these kids you’ve got, your, your, your children are all doing amazing things, but they, uh, some of ’em making it on the big screen, man. And. Justin Su’a It’s, it has been such a whirlwind, uh, to, for those who aren’t familiar, so yeah, my, my youngest daughter, 14 year old in 2019, she played the Rock’s daughter in his movie Hobbs and Shaw. Right now she is the star of a new Disney TV show that’s coming out. Uh, we’re here in Los Angeles. She’s shooting, um, my son just released his album. Um, he was, he was in the studio doing things with Drake. Uh, he just received a top, he’s 16 years old and he has his career. He’s signed, it’s, it’s a career where, uh, they, he has his agent and his manager, my daughter as well. And then my other daughter, Maya. She’s, she’s awesome. She’s doing, she’s doing wonderful things, but it’s, um, we’re really just trying to figure this out. We’re, we’re trying to. Since they were younger, trying to help them just identify, Hey, what do you love to do? Uh, don’t wanna answer the question, what do you want to, what do you wanna do when you grow up? We ask, what do you wanna do right now? Okay. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a And just do it the best you possibly can. And another thing as well is, is we talk about often at the dinner table, is when you wanna pursue greatness the odds are against you, like the odds of Eliana, the odds that you are going to be a movie star and, and be with The Rock and Ryan Reynolds and Kevin Hart are less than 1%. Just so you know that the odds that you are going to be a star on the Disney show, less than 1%. Jerem our son, if you’re gonna be in the billboards, the odds are less than 1%. But my, look me in the eyes, do you love this? Yes. I love this. Okay, great. Do it cause you love it. Do okay. Don’t, don’t pursue the, the odds are against you. But if you love it and this is what you wanna do, all right, mom and dad will put you in a best position we can. And, but you need to love it and work it. And if you don’t wanna do this you don’t have to do this. We ask her. It’s we ask our daughter and our son. Do you still love this? Yes, I love it. Okay. You don’t, you don’t need this. You don’t have to do this. This doesn’t define you or doesn’t, doesn’t define us as parents. Like, as long as you love it. And so we’ll see how, we’ll see what they do. Brett Gilliland It’s amazing. Justin Su’a We’ll see how far they go. But it’s been a fun ride so far. Brett Gilliland And you, you talk about that 1%. I mean, so we can, we’ll pick on that for a minute cause they’re not, I mean, to my knowledge, you guys are not, you know, all connected in the movie business and you don’t have a background in it. It’s not like, you know, you just, you, you pick up the phone and call a buddy and something happens. I mean, th- this is like, she went out and made this happen. Justin Su’a She was eight years old and we were watching tv. She’s like, I wanna be an actor. And we’re like, okay. Like we don’t know how to do that. We’re in this small little Bradenton, Florida, and it’s not the mecca of, we don’t, don’t know what we’re doing. So we get her an acting coach and we’re like, okay. Like, and, and they’re doing it and okay, we need to get her an agent. And we don’t have anyone, we don’t have any con- zero connections. We come to Los Angeles, she gets declined. Like so many nos. I can’t tell you how many nos. Brett Gilliland Wow. Justin Su’a And to the point to where we’re like, we should just, just quit like this. Like, you should just stop doing this because the you can’t do it. But she loved it. Like she loved it. We’re like, okay, all right. If you love it, like. Okay, fine. Like enjoy doing coaching cause you’re not gonna be in, you’re not, you’re not getting movies, you’re not getting commercials, you’re not on stage, you’re not doing, but you love it. And then she, she got a yes after a 200 something nos, okay, that’ll get us to the next thing and that’ll get us to the next thing. And she just continued to love it. And a lot of tears, a lot of, a lot of, no. Way more. She’s, she’s, I think if, I think 315 nos in her career, like big role. And she’s gotten like three yeses, like three yeses. And we thought her role with The Rock was gonna open all these doors. And. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a It was, it wasn’t nearly what we thought it was going to be to be. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a Completely honest. Um, but yeah, even, even after that, she got, most of her nos came after her role with The Rock. Most of her nos came after that. And then, um, an. Brett Gilliland Amazing man. Justin Su’a Guest with Disney and yeah. And so it’s been, uh, my, our son as well. Our son as well. He’s, he, he is just kind of been in his own, just on his computer, just making beats and people, they just have loved the craft. They love doing it, and they just got better and better and better. And so. Brett Gilliland I love it. Justin Su’a We’ll see. We’ll see where it goes. Brett Gilliland Well, we’ll keep watching it, man. It’s been awesome, uh, having you again on the Circuit of Success. Uh, tell our listeners where to find more of, uh, of you. Justin Su’a Yeah, so, uh, any, uh, uh, Twitter, Instagram, Justin Sua, j u s t i n s u a. That’s usually where I put, put all of my stuff. And, uh, yeah, looking forward to reconnecting with anyone. Brett Gilliland It’s a, uh, it’s a great follow. I will tell you that, man, you can always, uh, put stuff on there on point, you know, very direct, very helpful. Uh, I’m a big fan of it. Always love seeing it and, uh, just keep doing what you’re doing, man. Always appreciate you. Justin Su’a Thanks so much, Brett. Likewise. Thank you.