At Sea with Justin McRoberts

My son and I recently went to see the most recent Marvel release. It's a movie about Dr. Strange. He's one of the primary characters in the Marvel Universe. And he is, according to his title, a master of the Mystic Arts, which begs a little bit of a question about what mystic is. See in the films, him being the master of mystic arts is manifested in the ability to open portals to different universes or cast spells that send power waves that knock over buildings or enemies. My son and I had a really interesting conversation about mysticism and religion and spirituality and what makes it thing spiritual and what makes a thing mystic, after the film, I found myself referring to things that I discussed with Kevin Sweeney. During this conversation you're about to hear, Kevin's book, The Making of a Mystic is a really interesting take on his journey towards mysticism, and his practice of those things that we might call or might not call depending on who you are. mystical. I think you will enjoy this conversation. I think you'll be challenged by it. I really enjoyed it. Check it out. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

While the experiences of displacement and disorientation play such a significant role in conversations about cultural place, institutional belonging, and even interpersonal relationship. I am moved and inspired not only by the stories of those who endure and triumph over that sense of displacement or dislocation but in fact sometimes even choose displacement and the adventure of relocation in order to awaken some kind of new spirit in them and in the world around them. My guest Natalie Toon Patten is one such person who has been removed who's been displaced, has been in fact cast out from certain cultures, and then has chosen the adventure of relocation in order to readjust, replace, reroute, and reorient herself to a world in which she longs to belong and create belonging or a sense of belonging for others. I enjoyed our conversation and I think you will too. Check it out. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

For a number of years, my favorite event in the country was The Festival of Faith and Music in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The festival host, a gentleman named Ken Hefner would stand up in front of headlining artists' audiences and challenge those audiences to be as prepared for the show, as the band that we were about to see. He would say, "That you would expect this band to have brought their A-game with regard to performance. I'm asking you if you brought your A-game with regards to listening." Stephen Covey, who's the writer of the book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People is quoted as saying that most people do not listen with the intent to understand they listen with the intent to reply. You've been in those conversations when the person listening to you is really just paying attention so that they can say what they've already planned on saying, along with people like Ken Hefner, John J. Thompson has spent the lion's share of his career trying to and coaching people to listen differently. Beyond trying to simply understand, much less reply. John J. Thompson believes that listening can be and most of the time is a transformative experience. I got to catch up with John at the White Owl festival just outside of Nashville, Tennessee not too long ago, and I really enjoyed our conversation. I think you will too.Check it out. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

One of my favorite characters in all of literature is from a Dostoevsky novel called The Brothers Karamazov.  The character's name is Father Zosima. Father Zosima doles out wisdom throughout the course of the book and its particular instance stands out to me, it's one of the moments that solidifies him as a favorite character. He's counseling. a congregant, who is not just detached from and losing touch with theologically, a sense for the resurrection or even the embodied incarnation of Jesus, but is lamenting that loss. She's no longer believing that God became a human being was crucified, was raised from the dead, and she's lamenting this loss as a personal one in her life. And Father Zosima, instead of prescribing some sort of a theological treaty, some sort of book, some sort of study, or even prayer. When she says, "What should I do about this lack of faith in Jesus, and the resurrection", he says, "Feed the poor". That's confounding in some ways. And on the other side of the coin, it is revelatory and beautiful. The more I talk with therapists, including physical therapists, I keep hearing the same thing I hear when I talk to dancers is that there is a sad reality to the detachment we feel particularly among the religious from our own bodies. A distance from the actual vessel in which we live our lives, even sometimes a full-blown disrespect. That the way we practice our religion, the way we practice our lives, comes really close to denying the physical reality of the body we live life in. I'm recording this on the Tuesday of Holy Week, of the end of this week, Christians like me will celebrate the physical death and the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is the central truth of Christianity. And yet, as a religion, that predicates the entirety of its truth, on the physicality of God, we really do struggle with bodies. Even the Incarnation and the physical death and resurrection of Jesus is often talked about and treated like a necessary act, rather than a joyful expression. That God had to become a human and hadn't to die, and then be raised in the body. It was something that God had to do, rather than a joyful choice. Which then really does show up in a culture in which we have to live in these bodies, and don't choose to live in them with joy. This brings me to this short reflection, this Holy Week 2022. Yes, there is a massive departure from the physical spaces in which people regularly used to show up to celebrate, to worship, to learn about, and to meet with the God that holds all things together. Yes, there is a mass exodus. And you've heard me reflect on this same dilemma, the same crisis, the same reality a few times. I wonder if part of why that is is not just because there's corruption in different corners of our culture. And fewer and fewer people are willing to put up with that corruption in order to belong somewhere. But also because we just don't dance enough. And we don't share meals enough. And we spend far too much time and physical proximity to one another and to our neighbors, ignoring, bypassing, and even degrading the physical reality of our lives. And maybe what all of that adds up to is this, that a God that does not recognize, celebrate and enjoy the physical reality of human life simply isn't a god worth paying attention to, at all. And if that's the God we're presenting, if that's the God we're celebrating, if that's the God we're worshiping, then maybe it's no wonder the folks who are looking for something else. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

One of the surprising benefits changes fruits in me, that have come from partnering with folks who work in the anti trafficking world has been a different understanding and a deeper understanding what it means to live in the body, or in a body. For instance, partnering with Amy Lynch here in the San Francisco Bay Area, who through her organization helps to create pathways to healing for girls who've been rescued out of trafficking. One of the things she said during our conversations was that there are things that happen in the human body joys and traumas that can't be thought through. They can't be reasoned through, they can really only be worked out bodily. Which brings me to the subject of dance. I got the gift and privilege of seeing Camille Sutton, choreograph and dance at The Breath in the Clay a couple years ago. And I was moved not just by her performance and by her choreography, but by the way, the room was simply arrested, captured and challenged to pay attention in a way that music, movies or any other medium or type of art just doesn't quite get to. I had the pleasure of recently talking with Camille about her work, her history, her philosophy and her hope for what dance can and should do in our culture religiously and otherwise. Check it out. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

A few episodes ago, I shared a short story about being what I called misnamed at an event. The organizer called me a singer/songwriter when I was there to speak. Now, part of that setup for me emotionally was I was actually in the process of reinventing. I had been playing music for many, many years. And I had been speaking a little bit at the time but paying attention to what was going on in me, honoring what was happening in me, and honoring the things that people around me were responding to. I recognized that I was in a moment of reinvention. The one side of that story that I told him was that I wanted to be called something else, I wanted to be called an author, I wanted to be called a speaker instead of a singer-songwriter. Well, there's another side to that. Because sometimes that reinvention process, and sometimes those reinvention moments or seasons come with a bit of grief. And that for two reasons. Maybe there was part of who I was before, how I functioned before what I did before, even primarily did before that I have to put down to become what's coming next, that I actually will miss. And I'll grieve that, that I really liked being that singer-songwriter. But the season has changed, and I have to do something else. Maybe it's sad for me to let go of what I thought was what I hoped I would do with those skills or those talents. The other part of it has to do with disappointing people. And you've seen this play out where someone will change their musical style, someone will change up their fashion. And the folks who had been paying attention to them offering their time their money don't like the new version. Everyone's heard the stories about Bob Dylan coming out with an electric guitar, and all the chaos ensued. Following that first electric set, similar things have happened to bands like you to, or Kanye West, even the Beatles, or Stevie Wonder, when the time came for them to honor the existing and ongoing change in them as artists, the people paying attention to them, were disappointed, I'm going to suggest that that kind of risk, that that kind of bravery to reinvent is necessary for a long term career in the arts. And if Seth Godin is right, that art is anything we create that forges a relationship between people. That risk of reinventing and disappointing people is necessary for any good work in the world. I coach artists and ministers, and entrepreneurs. And pretty much everyone on my roster right now is in some reinvention phase. They're looking at the skills, talents, abilities, and time they have had until now and trying to figure out what to do with them next. And some of the deepest grief I'm experiencing is from folks who have been trying to practice religion publicly, trying to lead spiritually in public, and are having to reinvent that particular form of art, not only because of the level of disappointment they experienced by their tribes, persons but also because among the people that I know who lead spiritually, it is a really deeply personal expression. Titles like pastor or minister get rooted in people's hearts, souls, minds, skin. It is who you are, and changing the title, the function of that job, or work becomes a challenge to that person's identity. If I do this differently, maybe I'm not who I used to be. And that can be scary. Which takes me back to that moment. At that conference, the person up front called me a singer-songwriter instead of an author. The reality was at the core of things; I'm neither one of those things. Those are expressions. I'm not an author. I do write books. I'm not a singer/songwriter. I do write songs, and I sing them. I'm an artist, which is to say, I don't make music because music needs to be made. And I don't write books because books need to be made. I make music. And I write books to forge a relationship between people, between myself and people, between myself and myself at times, between people and the God that holds all things together. So among the religious and those who lead in religious settings, perhaps words like pastor or minister, or even church, become traps. Because those words come in certain shapes. A pastor does this looks like this works these hours. Church happens at this time on this day in this way. And when the season comes, that calls on us to be brave. And to take the risk to do and be and act differently. We have to let go of what was to make room for what is coming and what is new. And yes, that comes with grief. Yes, that comes with fear. But we didn't get into the ministry work of pastoring and the church because we wanted to be ministers and pastors and have churches. In the same way that an artist doesn't get into music, painting, or storytelling, because they want to just paint and just tell stories and make music. It's about connection. It's about people. It's about love. It's about how do I best communicate reality? What's going on in me? Honor, the truth. Honor, the beauty, honor the goodness going on in me. How do I best communicate that? And how do I best set up a guide, help assist champion and celebrate that same work in the lives of others? It is now and has been for a while, a season at a time of reinvention for religion in America. Things are going to be different. And the choice on the table in front of us is to either honor the change that is already happening in us as persons or honor the desire. Those around us for something new/ something different, or we will hold to those old patterns and miss the moment in fear of our own grief. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Reinvention is one of the hallmarks of a long-term career as an artist. The ability and the desire, the capacity to take something that used to work a certain way during a certain season and do something new, something different with that same material with that same pattern with those same skills. One of the things I've admired about Christa Wells, in her career is her ability and her capacity to not just reinvent as a writer, a songwriter, a podcaster as a guide, but to do so in a way that paves the way and sets an example for other artists to do the same. I really enjoyed my conversation with her sitting down in Nashville. I think you will too.Check it out. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

In the introduction to last week’s episode, I mentioned that in the years I spent as a pastor in an evangelical setting, the conversation about the place of LGBTQ folks in a local church was a regular and often difficult one. That the Biblical image I kept coming back to was of Moses and his people stuck between the uncrossable waters in front of them and the violent forces behind them. The tensions felt are often theological and institutional. But the cost, the main cost, was and is personal. Yes, I saw pastors lose their jobs and I saw a flood of people leave congregations they loved or stay in congregations in which they felt deep sadness and stress. I lost friends, too. And because that cost was and is so personal, my thoughts and feelings about what’s at hand in this conversation started to evolve and change and, in some way, clarify. Are there institutional and theological steps to be taken and moves to be made? Yes? But I’ve never felt it was an agreement that was what actually held healthy communities and relationships together. I recognized that disagreeing well was actually key. More than that, it is always the value of the The hope has never been communities bound together ONLY by common conclusions. Instead, it has been communities bound together by relationships and committed conversation, particularly about things that matter and more so when those things that matter on DEEPLY personal levels. This takes me back to that Biblical imagery. Moses and his people facing uncrossable waters with violence at their back and something utterly miraculous has to happen for there to be a pathway forward. There is nothing so miraculous as the change of a human heart. So I started paying attention to the places where folks who loved one another were in conversation and compromise and commitment together and my hopes have risen since then. The way I’ve come to think; If waters aren’t parted between people who love and like each other, I wonder if much happening on the theological and institutional level matters anyway. In fact, I wonder, at times, if the entire ballgame when it comes to wholesale institutional change just plain pivots on our willingness to love and make room for one another. I wonder if what has been exposed, more so than anything else in the years we’ve been invested in this “conversation” is a shortage of hospitality and a lack of willingness to love like Jesus. Jesus, whose love was marked and defined by sacrifice; Who broke standards of culture and religious expectations, not for the thrill of being a rule breaker or to scorn the institution, but because people are always more than (and worth more than) the conclusions we have about them or the rules we make for them. I don’t know what the pathway forward actually looks like when it comes to local churches and LGBTQ members of the family of Christ. I assume that, logistically, it’s tied up into the larger questions about what “church” looks like in practice over the next few decades. This means that, regardless of strategy and theology, the true hope for Chruch practice in this context or any is the miraculous capacity of human beings to love one another well, in conflict and disagreement, in sickness and in health.  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

During my time as a pastor in the Evangelical Covenant Church, I was in an ongoing conversation about the relationship between LGBTQ folks and local churches. And over the years, regardless of all the different kinds of settings in which that conversation was happening, it kept bringing me back to this very particular biblical imagery. Moses and his people were on the edge of a body of water that they could not safely cross with the armies of Egypt, bearing down on them from behind an impossibility. Any change necessary for a peaceful, free future was just off the table, something very new, something not just unprecedented, but unexpected and very unlikely would need to happen. It has pretty much always felt that same way to me in the institutional conversation about sexuality and gender and identity, and communal religious practice, that any change necessary in order for a peaceful, connected communal future, to be possible just seemed off the table. For that reason, then for several years, I've turned my attention to places in which I saw actual newness, and that was almost always in relationship. It was almost always happening on a level that the institutional conversation was too busy or too noisy, to notice. But as quiet as some of those spaces and moments might have been, they continue to grant me deep and sincere hope for a future. I can't see it. Staci Frenes story is one of those spaces and places and it was a joy to reconnect with her in conversation. Check it out. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Hello, and welcome to episode 100 of the @Sea podcast. We launched this thing on April 30th, 2016. And 100 episodes later, here we are. I want to pause right here at Episode 100; you do a couple of things, two things very specifically. The first one is simply to say thank you, thank you for listening for paying attention, I do not take for granted at all, not for a moment, that you offer your attention your time to this podcast, anything that I do, but specifically today, this podcast, thank you for paying attention. If you are a patron, doubly Thank you, because not only your attention but your actual contributions make it possible for me to do this, to take care of equipment costs, and also to free up the time it takes me to invest in these conversations, to do the research, I am enriched by this work. And your support allows me to continue to enter into it. So thank you very, very, very much. Thank you also, and very specifically to Dan Portnoy, who is the producer of this episode, and really the vast majority of episodes of the @Sea podcast, the last 100 episodes, your skillset your attention, your availability, there's just stuff along with this podcast, there's just stuff that's true about my life, and is that exists in my life that simply would not were you not the person you are with the skill set you have and the attention you pay. So thank you. Thank you for making all this possible. If you're a listener, if you're Dan, if you are a patron. That's first. The first is Thanks. And thanks because this like I said, this is an enriching work. I love this work. I love this work because I'm growing as I do it, which leads me to the second thing that I want to do. I grew up watching David Letterman, which means that what I'm going to offer you as a David Letterman type thing, I'm going to offer you a top 10. The top 10 things I have learned as the host of the @Sea podcast after 100 episodes.Number 10. I don't have to know everything.But seems like kind of a win. I say it out loud. But the reality is, is life is just better recognizing my limitations, that I don't have to make a goal of assembling a bunch of knowledge and becoming a know at all. It's actually a really good posture to be in to recognize that I'm limited in my knowledge. I'm actually sometimes limited in my ability to know.That makes life more interesting and makes people more interesting. I don't have to know everything doesn't pretend.Number nine, I don't have to pretend like I know everything. My mom used to say, no one likes it. know it all. Maybe your mom said the same thing. 100 episodes into this podcast. I really believe it.Folks really enjoy being asked questions. I enjoy being asked questions. I don't have to pretend like I know everything. In fact, there's just not a lot of respect to be gained. By pretending like I've got knowledge, there is a lot to be gained by knowing that I don't know everything and acting like someone who is looking for what's next in someone's life was looking for truth, beauty, goodness, as opposed to thinking that they've got it.Which leads me to number eight. Curiosity is a sign of respect.To say to someone tell me about that. To say to someone, I don't think I quite understand that. Can you break that down? For me? There is this maybe a fear of sorts that that like folks would be offended, to be asked questions about who they are. But the more I've done it, the more I've asked like really poignant questions of really sensitive matters and people's lives the more I recognize how respected and honored people feel, when I ask questions, as opposed to make assumptions. Curiosity is a sign of respect.Number seven, mystery is an invitation.It is often used the word mystery maybe misused it is sometimes misused the word mystery as a way to excuse the work it takes to get to know someone to a way to excuse the work it takes or the responsibility of coming to know of asking good questions and waiting for answers or even waiting through answers that we don't understand. "Oh it's just mysterious." No, real mystery true mystery is an invitation into relationship is an invitation into a deeper kind of knowledge. It's the it begins with that sense of like I don't really get this that leads to really good questions. Mystery is not a dead end when it comes to culture or religion or anything. It is an invitation "Hey, there's more here, there's more than you can see, there's more than you can know, maybe there's more than it's possible for you to know maybe there's actually more than this possible the edges of human knowledge." mystery is an invitation and not a dead end.Number six, knowledge isn't power. Knowledge is a facet of relationship. This notion that this, you know, it's a saying, I've heard it I've seen on posters, no, just power. No, you know that that's true. If the goal in my life is to control, if the goal of my life is to control the world around me, then knowledge can be power. But if the goal in my life is relationship, then knowledge is simply a facet of that relationship. And it ends up being a commitment to a relationship, like a particular commitment to a relationship that I get to know you, I get to see you and experience you now as you are. And knowledge is power means that you have to stay there. Otherwise, we have a problem. Once I've come to know you, that's who you are. And if you change, then we've got a problem.What if instead, knowledge is a way for it's a facet of like, I get to see you now. And then as you change, I'm committed to relearning you over the course of time. That's true into relationally as true interpersonally. It's also true societally, that suit institutionally, culturally, things are as they are now. And I can come to a certain understanding and a grasp, here's that control piece, a grasp of the way things are now. But real knowledge then is like this is going to change. And when it changes, when you change, I'm going to ask the next set of questions in order to re-enter into this relationship as it exists. Tomorrow, knowledge, isn't power, knowledge is a facet of relationship.Number five.I'm hesitant to even say this out loud, I shouldn't because I mean, this.Not everything has to be important to me.To say, there are things that have been important to my guests over the over 100 episodes that like; they're just not as important to me. And some of that has to do with place in life, some of that has to do with the position of power that I can't do much about some of the things that some of my guests care deeply about and have committed their lives to.So it can't be important to me in the same way. There are things that are important to me that aren't important to other folks who don't have the kind of access or don't have the same kind of doorways. It's important for me to recognize like, these are the things that I get to know that these are the things I get to do something about these are things that are that are actually important to me so that I can play my part and respect you for playing your part that doesn't have to be important to me in the same way that it is you I can just think that you're a hero in your specific lane and let you drive in it and do it really well. And then I can stay in my lane and do my part well, and trust the whole process, the fabric of the world societally becomes far more interesting. And I get to be more responsible for my part of it. If I recognize that not everything has to be important to me, I just want to be really responsible to the stuff that is.Number four, listening is the key.The key, not just a key listening is the key to good relationship, and great art. To have a good idea and even to have a skill set is wonderful. It's necessary if this podcast was a good idea, and I have a certain skill set that allows me to do this, and I think do this decently well. But it's my capacity to and my growing capacity to pay attention and to listen, that actually makes this work. That's true on a bunch of different levels. It's also true in the rest of my art that I have, I can have a great idea. But if I'm not paying attention to the world around me, I don't know where that idea goes. And I just kind of place things out of context or in the wrong time or among the wrong tribe of people. Listening is the key to good relationship the key to good relationship, and it is also the key to great art.Number three, listening is actually hard.Because what it requires me to do is it requires me to put my agendas to the side. It requires me to relegate my ideas to maybe even better ideas. Listening requires me to slow down and to cease my desire for control to cease my desire for a certain kind of knowledge. Listening is hard because it requires me to find my place in the stay in it and not try to be the center of every conversation, to not be the center of every culture. Again, as a, you know, as a straight, white, male listening has become maybe the most essential practice of my life has come to recognize, like my necessary place, and my better place in my neighborhood, my world online.And it's been hard, because it is more so than anything else, listening, is a relinquishing of power, or the desire for power.Listening is hard.Number two, not all stories are good stories.The emphasis on story you know, the folks over at Pixar like to say the story is king and I absolutely believe that story is King story is the framework. Story is a framework for really all kinds of knowledge, relational, institutional, otherwise, story really is king. But not every story is a good story. There are actually bad stories in the world and discerning that. Having that discernment, recognizing when I'm paying attention to a bad story, or recognizing when I'm contributing to a bad story begins with the recognition in the confession, that not every story is a good story. There are some stories that are simply bad ones, and should be replaced. Not necessarily silenced, but should be seized, yes, remembered so that we would know I hate that's a bad story. We don't want to do that again. But some stories should come to an end. Not all stories are good.And lastly, the number one thing that I've learned and relearned over the course of 100 episodes:I like people.I really like people.The more knowledge there is in the world of how bad things are, how bad things can be, how badly we can mess things up. How complicated and mean people can be. It could be really easy to become jaded, not just to culture, not just the certain cultures, not just to religion and not just to politics. They become jaded, in a deeper sense. I'm so glad that after all these years of paying attention and listening and being in conversation, I continue to fall in love with people. I continue to love and like who people are, I really do like people.Which takes me back to the number one thing I was doing with this podcast. Thanks for making this possible. Thanks for joining me for this episode.Thanks for joining me for this episode of the @Sea podcast. We will return to our regularly scheduled program and the next few weeks. Thanks for 100 episodes. Let's do 100 more. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble