At Sea with Justin McRoberts

Welcome to the At Sea Podcast I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. I don't speak to a lot of other coaches, I talk to a few, but it's not a regular part of my conversation I actually fell into in some ways, the coaching job, just discovered myself doing it after a number of years. And so when I get to actually sit down and talk with someone else, working in that same space, it can be really refreshing. I found my conversation with Alan Briggs to be deeply informative, really refreshing, and incredibly enjoyable. I like his approach to human development to leadership. I also like how he integrates and understands the divine underpinnings in each human life. I think you'll enjoy this conversation. I know that I did.Check it out. Links for Alan BriggsStay Forth - https://www.stayforth.comLinks For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Welcome to the At Sea Podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. When I first read Kevin Sweeney's initial book The Making of a Mystic, I found a bit of a kindred spirit that's somewhat unlikely person in the pastorate as well as a relatively unlikely person when one thing because of terms like mystical or contemplative. You might remember that conversation on this very podcast about that initial book from last season. His most recent book is called The Joy of Letting Go. And it actually met me exactly where I needed to be met when I picked it up as well. His language is a wonderful bridge between the everyday experience of life and the desired sacred posture with which I want to live that everyday life. I enjoy this conversation. I think you will as well.Check it out. Links for Kevin SweeneyThe Joy Of Letting Go - https://a.co/d/0IQKE0DLinks For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. I met Jess Ray a number of years ago at a conference where she was helping to lead songs and realize there was some of her music that I had heard before. Maybe you had that experience where you're paying attention to someone or something, you hear something and you realize, like, oh my gosh, this is already in my system. I'm already a fan of this. Well, having already been a fan of her music, just by nature of the songs themselves, then watching her engage with people. In the art of song-leading, I was locked in as a lifetime fan. I really like what Jess Ray does musically. I also really liked the way she goes about doing it. When I return to this theme over and over that art is anything we create that forges a connection between people. I think about people like Jess Ray, who really is actually about that connection, who pays attention to the connection, who senses that connection in herself. You'll hear that in the conversation. And I think you'll feel that in the worksheet as if you're not already familiar with it. So check out this conversation. I think you'll dig it. Links for Jess RayWebsite - www.jessray.com Links For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Welcome to the At Sea Podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. What does it mean to lead well? Heck, what does it even mean to lead period? And specifically, what does it mean to lead and lead well, in a religious context, when we talk about ministry, we talk about Church we talk about religious culture in general. Nowadays, the question of what good healthy leadership looks like might be the most important conversation on the table when it comes to the "Future of the American church and American religion." It's a conversation that Angie Ward has been in for a long time, and had some poignant thoughts, not only in her books but in podcasts and interviews like this one, I really enjoyed the clarity and the confidence and the humility with which Angie Ward approaches conversations about what it looks like to not just lead but to lead well. I enjoyed this conversation. I think you will also.Check it out. Links for Angie WardWebsite - www.angieward.netLinks For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

If you are around or in conversations about mental health for much time at all, you probably hear the word trauma used relatively often. And if you are in or around conversations at the intersection of mental health and religious life, you'll probably hear the phrase church trauma, or religious trauma used, at least as regularly. Those conversations can be really tricky, can be really difficult, and also can be really necessary. Some of the most helpful voices in those conversations, at least that I've come across, aren't even necessarily folks trained as therapists or even working as pastors. Some of the most helpful folks in conversations about church trauma are those who have experienced it, have done the work in their own hearts, minds, and communities, and then are speaking back into some of those spaces, not even just correctively. But both correctively and compassionately, a lot of what I've enjoyed and benefited from with regards to Janai Auman's work is that posture that she's remarkably articulate, and she is abundantly clear about the places lines have been crossed about the abuse of power in church leadership. She is also speaking from a place of hope. I really enjoyed this conversation with her, and I think you will as well.Check it out. Links for Jenai AumanWebsite - https://www.jenaiauman.comInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenaiauman/Links For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. Molly Lacroix is my guest on this episode. And as a marriage and family therapist, she engages in the kind of art I find inspiring, incredibly rare, and necessary. She takes what would otherwise be, perhaps even frustratingly, wildly difficult concepts, things out of the reach of the average person's daily knowledge, and then boils those down and communicates those in such a way that folks like me can get handles on those ideas, but does so in a way that doesn't, I don't know, demean me, or, just as importantly, doesn't do so in a way that diminishes the depth, richness, and complexity of the traditions and the systems she's referencing. Working at the intersection of spirituality and interpersonal relationships. As a family therapist, she's trained explicitly in internal family systems, which is a model of understanding human interaction, our engagement with the world, our relationships, and the systems we function in. I find it deeply freeing, and it has been really helpful for my practice and the lives of many people I care about. This was a fascinating and wonderful conversation. I think you'll benefit from it.Check it out. Links for Molly LaCroixWebsite - https://mollylacroix.comLatest Book - Restoring Relationship: Transforming Fear into Love Through ConnectionLinks For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. One of the points of conversation we are returning to over and over during this series we're doing at the intersection of mental health and spiritual practice has to do with the benefit or the problem of familiarity with mental health issues, mental health terminology, and with diagnostic tools. There's a world of conversation now in public about what it means to be depressed, to have depression, to live with ADHD, and to have anxiety. Does the familiarity with and the public dialogue about these things actually benefit us? That was one of the reasons I was looking forward to talking to Dr. John Delony because so much of what he does, doesn't just happen in books. He's written a few books but actually happens in a public and public dialogue with people who bring him their life issues. And he brings to them a knowledge of brain chemistry and our knowledge of mental health patterns and practices in an attempt to not just meet the caller when they call in but also meet listeners. I have known Dr. John Delony since long before he was a doctor. He's become a good friend of mine. We share a passion for a lot of things in common, but more so than anything else. We really like people, and we love the opportunity to do what we can to care for those who make themselves available to us. I think you'll enjoy this conversation. I certainly did. Check it out.Links for John DelonyWebsiteInstagramLatest Book - Own Your Past Change Your Future: A Not-So-Complicated Approach to Relationships, Mental Health & WellnessLinks For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Hello, and welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. This episode of the podcast takes us deeper into the ongoing conversation here at the At Sea podcast. At the intersection of psychotherapeutics and spiritual practice, this time with author, pastor, speaker leader, and coach Nicole Unice. I think you'll pick up in the conversation that we haven't had a truckload of conversations. We've been trying to have this conversation for quite a while. I definitely find in Nicole Unice a kindred spirit not only because of our affinity for young life and kids but even in the odd gravity we both feel towards the word pastor and a love for the institutional church. She lives in Richmond, Virginia, although she speaks all over the country. And her most recent book, the one we'll talk about in the conversation, is called, The Miracle Moment: How Tough Conversations Can Actually Transform Your Most Important Relationships. I really enjoy how she enters into the relational dynamics at a granular level and is hyper-practical about her approach to people, ministry, and philosophy. I enjoyed this conversation and I think you will as well. Links for Nicole UniceWebsite - https://nicoleunice.comLatest Book - The Miracle Moment: How Tough Conversations Can Actually Transform Your Most Important RelationshipsLinks For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Early on in my vocational career, I was on staff with a ministry organization. I was hoping to plant a church, making some music. I was around a lot of people, and a partner of mine, a friend, someone I knew who I was working with, described my overall posture as that of an ambulance chaser. They intended to point out that I tended to lean into difficult situations. That I wasn't causing drama. But as he put it, "If there's a bleeding wound somewhere, you want to go patch it up." Their hope and intention wasn't to insult me or disparage my character, so much as it was to point out this tendency in me to, maybe, overextend myself, that while it's a good thing that I want to help, while it's a good thing, that I actually do care. Both of those things are true, they were true, they're true now. I really do care. And I really do want to help, just because I care. And just because I want to help doesn't mean it's my business. Probably more important than that was this, they were pointing out that I was wearing myself out, from emergency to emergency, from dire situation to dire situation, I was drawn to places and to people that needed a lot of help. I've returned to that memory about that conversation somewhat frequently since the beginning of the year because I recognize in me I'm tired. And maybe you resonate with that. I look around at the world immediately around me, or a few steps away from me much less on Twitter, or Facebook, or Instagram, and it can be kind of overwhelming. Maybe not kind of, it can just be overwhelming. If you are someone who actually does care, if you're someone who really does want to help - right now is a heck of a time to be alive. Because on the one hand, the consciousness we share about what's going on in the world, the world around us, or even the world, two worlds over from where we live, can facilitate a sense of connectedness that we are in this together. And on the other hand, sometimes. Let me rephrase that far too often. Not just the amount of information available but how it is made available can make it seem like it's not enough to care where you can care. It's not enough to help where you can help. You can apply the best of your energies to the small corner of the world where you can be effective and wise. You have to care about everything and do so well. And if you do not care wisely and well and effectively about that which is popping in the moment, you are part of the problem. So that if you spend the best of your energies to make your small corner of the world better and more beautiful for the people you've been given to, and then have nothing left over for the causes the world around you is screaming are important today. You have missed. And you are part of what's wrong. And so I'm tired. And maybe you are too. So I don't share this reflection, this confession as it were, because I want to air my dirty laundry and hope that you find empathy with me instead. I wonder if you feel something similar. I wonder if you feel tired, and not tired because you're the kind of person who just doesn't have space for other people, not tired because you're the kind of person who has over other people's stories—tired because you really do care. And you really do want to help, and you're doing everything you think you can do to the best of your ability, and you still feel like you're getting judged and you're failing. We are now in the season of Lent. It's the season that I look forward to and celebrate and dive headfirst into every year because it's a reset for me. And it's a reset for me because it is a season in which I celebrate, lean into, and practice my limitations. I limit my drinking. I limit my eating. I limit the time I spend in certain places. I actually intentionally practice living as a limited person. And after all these years of practicing my limitation in the season of Lent, part of what I'm coming to realize is that my limitations aren't a problem. My limitations are part of what it means for me to be whole. And when I judge myself for being limited, for not being able to care about everything wisely and well, when I treat myself as if I should be able to overcome my limitations so that I can be more productive, more caring, more present in more places, what I actually do is I diminish my humanity, and I diminish the person I actually am, which includes, and is defined by my limitations. So, this Lent 2023, my hope and intention is not simply to practice limitation the way have often practiced limitation. But as I practice, and lean into, and in fact, celebrate my limitations. I also practice what Henry Nouwen calls the ministry of disappointment. I will be bummed to find, at the end of myself, that there are things I wish I could care about more completely that I simply can't, that there are ways I wish I could help. But I simply won't be able to. I'll be bound to disappoint other people who really do wish I cared about the things they cared about the way they care about them. I don't.I can't. And I won't expect them to care about my corner of the world. And the things that I care about the way I do. See, I don't want to feel tired anymore, the way I have felt tired, because the work I have to do in the very specific place I've been planted is just too important. And the people that I've been given to that I can actually care for wisely and well are just too important. And the help I can offer and the places I've actually been planted is help I can offer because I've been planted here. And I don't want to be too tired, or too distracted, or too demoralized to do the work that I can do the work right in front of. Because I've spent all of my energy worrying, and being sad, and disappointed and kicking myself for not being able to do more. So maybe no one ever called you an ambulance chaser. The way I was called an ambulance chaser. But maybe you resonate with that feeling that man you care. And boy, you really want to help. But you don't want to be so damn tired all the time. So that you can offer the best of your energies, your time, your efforts, your wisdom, your life. To the places where you can make an actual difference, make an impact, and make the kind of change you're designed to make. Consider joining me this Lent and practicing in some way shape or form your own limitations, and re-envisioning, re-embracing yourself as the limited person that you were created to be planted in a particular place at a particular time among a particular people. So that it might be with you and with me as it was and is with Jesus, the Christ. Born to Mary and Joseph and the town of Nazareth, and his brother James and his small group of friends, that he spent a particular amount of time with him in that particular place. And because he attended so well and so wisely to that which was right in front of him. The whole role changed. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

I met Stephen Roach a number of years ago at an event he curates called the Breath and the Clay. It's a conference, an Arts and Faith Conference in North Carolina. And I'd heard about the Breath in the Clay through artists who had participated in the conferences, as presenters. And then some folks who had attended the thing. And, and all of them had something similar to say about it, that it was not just different, but different in this particular way, that they left with a sense of belonging in the world of the arts, that less, less than leaving just equipped as an artist to make their art, or less than just feeling inspired. More than that, they left feeling they had a place in the world of the arts. And that's such a vital aspect, I would suggest great art, of great culture, and of life. Not just feeling equipped, internally, but feeling a sense of belonging in place in my world, and in my particular culture. We've become friends since then we chit chat off and on. And I've been looking forward to this interview for a long time, namely, because over the last 18 months or two years since the last breath in the clay event, Steven has spent a considerable amount of time investing in his own health and his own place in his own life and his own in his own culture, that he's actually spent the time to attend to who he is, as he does what he does. That I think is the engine behind great art lives and great careers. So I was thrilled to do this conversation. I enjoyed it.  I think you will too. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble