Before The Bestseller

This week, I’m thrilled to be joined by Thomas Umstattd Jr., someone who has shaped so much of my own thinking about book marketing. An author, award-winning speaker, and podcaster best known for hosting the world’s longest running book marketing show, Novel Marketing, Thomas has become a go-to guide for writers who want to reach readers and build sustainable careers through his book Courtship in Crisis, countless conference talks, and more than 500 podcast episodes.In this episode Thomas walks us through his journey from building author websites and launching Novel Marketing to the big shifts that have reshaped publishing including the rise of Kindle and Audible, the hidden indie sales BookScan misses, the boom in courses for nonfiction, and why YouTube behaves so differently from podcasts. We also dive into his newest experiment “AI Thomas,” an assistant trained on everything he has taught to give authors personalized marketing advice.If you are an author or book marketer trying to navigate a crowded and fast-changing industry, this conversation offers practical insights you can apply right away. You will learn how to choose the right format for your book, understand the real data behind sales, and prepare for the coming wave of AI-driven discovery so that your work keeps reaching readers.---Check out his podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/novel-marketing/id721122555---Learn more about Thomas, his book Courtship in Crisis, and the Novel Marketing podcast at: https://www.thomasumstattd.com/—Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

We’re back with Dr. Catherine Gildiner, bestselling author of Good Morning, Monster and Too Close to the Falls. Dr. Cathy’s books have sold over a million copies, landed on the New York Times bestseller list, and translated into 32 languages. After 25 years as a clinical psychologist, she turned her focus fully to writing and has since built a career that blends deep human insight with unforgettable storytelling.In this episode, Dr. Cathy Gildiner pulls back the curtain on how her books reached readers worldwide. She explains how a 30-second mention from Glennon Doyle on Good Morning America set off a sales wave that never slowed, and why that luck only mattered because she had already spent years creating a grassroots buzz. From her 250 book club appearances to the realities of a publisher’s short publicity window, she shares how to build momentum through your own launch, social media done right, and saying yes to every “dinky” opportunity that puts your book in readers’ hands. You will also hear her take on agents, marketing plans, author websites, and what not to waste money on.Tune in to hear Dr. Cathy’s unfiltered perspective on what really moves books and how smart, sustained book marketing can turn small sparks into lasting success.Get a copy of her books here: Good Morning, Monster: https://a.co/d/9yy5jfPToo Close To The Falls: https://a.co/d/3EClnu2Learn more about Dr. Cathy Gildiner and her work on her website here: www.gildiner.com—Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

Joining us today is Dr. Catherine Gildiner, who has worked for over 25 years as a clinical psychologist, guiding patients through trauma and recovery. She went on to share those experiences with the world in her New York Times bestselling book Good Morning, Monster, which has reached more than a million readers in over 30 languages, along with her acclaimed memoir Too Close to the Falls. Dr. Gildiner invites us to see therapy not as abstract theory, but as the practice of learning to live without the weight of old defenses.In this episode, we dive into the real work of therapy, what it takes, why it matters, and how it transforms lives. Kathy shares stories behind Good Morning, Monster, including patients like Peter, Danny, and Alana, whose journeys reveal how culture, silence, the body, and even dreams shape the healing process. We talk about why some people recover while others walk away, how to recognize when you need therapy, how to find the right therapist, and when to move on if it is not working. Along the way we touch on generational trauma, the value and limits of self help books, recurring nightmares, and the challenge of encouraging parents to seek therapy.This is an honest look at trauma, recovery, and what it really means to do the work. Therapy does not hand you answers, it asks if you are ready to face the truth and change your life.Get a copy of her book, Good Morning, Monster here: https://a.co/d/9yy5jfPLearn more about Cathy Gildiner and her work on her website here: www.gildiner.com—Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

Today we welcome back Commander Mark Divine, a man who has led Navy SEALs, built multimillion-dollar training companies, and sold hundreds of thousands of books, to unpack the real story of what it takes to write and market a bestseller. Mark is not only a retired SEAL Commander but also the founder of SEALFit and Unbeatable Mind, programs that combine elite physical training with mindfulness, breathwork, and visualization. His books, including 8 Weeks to SEALFit, The Way of the SEAL, Staring Down the Wolf, and Unbeatable Mind, have earned spots on both the New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller lists while inspiring leaders, athletes, and readers around the world.In this episode, Mark takes us behind the scenes of his author journey, from the unexpected phone call that led to his first publishing deal, to the freedom and higher royalties of self-publishing, to the tough decision to return to a traditional publisher during COVID. He opens up about the financial trade-offs, the hits and misses of building a business around his books, and the strategies that helped him grow a loyal audience. We also get into the practical side of book marketing: how to use podcasts as a launch tool, why audiobooks now drive nearly half his royalties, and the importance of keeping your content simple, consistent, and authentic.This episode is an unfiltered look at discipline, setbacks, and the lessons that make or break an author’s career. By the end, you’ll see what it really takes to keep moving forward when the odds are stacked against you.Make sure to check out his book here: https://a.co/d/21jZKoaExplore Mark’s programs and tools at www.unbeatablemind.com or www.markdivine.com —Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

Today, Commander Mark Divine joins us with a rare blend of grit and clarity. He is the author of Unbeatable Mind, a field-tested guide to building calm, focus, and purpose under pressure, a self-published success with seven-figure earnings and an estimated 300,000 to 400,000 copies sold. A former Navy SEAL Commander and New York Times bestselling author, Mark holds a PhD in Global Leadership and Change from Pepperdine, co-founded SEALFIT, Unbeatable Mind, and Coronado Brewing Company, and has trained teams at Google, Nike, SpaceX, Boeing, Harvard, the Olympics, and YPO. He also taught leadership as an adjunct at the University of San Diego and founded the Courage Foundation to support veterans in holistic recovery.In this episode, we put the core disciplines of Unbeatable Mind to work. Mark breaks down box breathing as a reliable reset you can use before a briefing, a hard conversation, a client meeting, or a keynote. He shows how visualization, forward focus, and train-what-you-can protocols guided his recovery after a crash that shattered his scapula and eight ribs, and how the same approach accelerates preparation and performance. We unpack his pivot from PwC to the SEALs to illustrate purpose-aligned decisions, then run the Three Spheres and the three fights decision model through real scenarios, from de-escalating a street confrontation to staying calm during a mini-sub mission where breath and mantra changed his sense of time. Every story ties back to simple daily practices, clear mental models, and leadership under pressure.Listen for practical takeaways you can put to work today: how to use box breathing to reset on command, a simple decision model for high-pressure moments, and a playbook for rebuilding momentum after setbacks. If you coach, lead, serve, or build, this conversation will sharpen how you prepare and how you respond. Hit play and start training the calm you will need when the stakes are real.Make sure to check out his book here: https://a.co/d/21jZKoaExplore Mark’s programs and tools at www.unbeatablemind.com or www.markdivine.com —Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

Our guest for today’s episode is Blake Erickson, someone whose story of grit and growth is as inspiring as it is practical. From starting in door-to-door sales at 21 and leading teams that generated over $30M in revenue, to becoming a multimillionaire by 25, Blake has proven what’s possible when focus meets ambition. In 2024, he co-founded Scaling.com with Dr. Benjamin Hardy and together they wrote The Science of Scaling, a playbook for achieving exponential growth. More than the milestones, what defines Blake is his passion for turning his own success into a roadmap that empowers others to grow.In this episode, Blake opens up about the mindset and framework that drive exponential growth. He shares how setting “impossible goals” forces you to think differently, raise your standards, and eliminate distractions. You’ll hear his personal story of selling off multiple businesses, cutting out the noise, and focusing entirely on building a company with a $100M target. He also breaks down the 3-part framework from The Science of Scaling and shows how authors, entrepreneurs, and business leaders alike can use these principles to achieve more than they thought possible.Scaling isn’t about doing more, it’s about doing the right things with clarity and focus. What you’ll hear in this episode isn’t theory, but a repeatable process for cutting out the noise, raising your standards, and aligning your work with the future you want. The real choice is whether you’ll put it into practice or keep playing small.You can grab a copy of The Science of Scaling here: https://a.co/d/0vGYw3kCurious about Blake’s work? Check out Scaling.com, For entrepreneurs making over $500K a year, Scaling.com offers a free copy of the book.For speaking inquiries, reach out to: speaking@blakeerickson.co—Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

We’re back with our very special guest, Tom O’Neill, investigative journalist and author of the bestselling book Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties. After more than twenty years of relentless reporting, Tom’s work reshaped one of America’s most infamous stories and became a publishing phenomenon, selling over 750,000 copies worldwide and putting him on track to cross the one-million mark.In this episode, Tom opens up about the marketing journey behind Chaos and how it went from a decades-long investigation to a book that stayed on the bestseller list for months. He shares how podcasts became a surprising launchpad, why his appearance on Joe Rogan changed everything, and what it was like watching his book sell out overnight during the early days of COVID. Along the way, Tom reflects on lessons of persistence, timing, and the unpredictable ways books find their audience, while hinting at what might come next in a long-awaited sequel.It was an absolute privilege to have Tom share his journey with us. This conversation captures the unstoppable spirit of an author who never gave up, proving that determination is the heartbeat of every great book.Make sure to check out his book here: https://a.co/d/56rkUfPLearn more about Tom O’Neill and his groundbreaking book Chaos through the links below:Website: tom-oneill.orgFaceBook: facebook.com/CHAOSTheBook/Instagram: @chaoscharlesmansonX: @chaosmansonbook—Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

Today we have a very special guest, and not the kind of guest we usually feature. Tom O’Neill is an investigative journalist who never set out to write a book at all. But what began as a short magazine assignment about the Manson murders turned into a 20-year obsession that became his bestselling book Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties.Tom is an award-winning journalist whose work has appeared in Premiere, New York, The Village Voice, and Details. With Chaos, he went far beyond the well-known story of Charles Manson, an inquiry that unearthed hidden connections, challenged official narratives, and revealed just how far-reaching the story really was. The book not only reexamines one of the most infamous cases in American history but also cements Tom’s reputation as a reporter willing to risk everything in pursuit of the truth.In this episode, Tom takes us through the wild, unpredictable ride from that first reluctant “yes” to the moment his book finally hit shelves. We talk about the off-the-record tip from prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi that changed everything, the years of chasing down reluctant sources, and the tense battles with powerful people who wanted his work buried. You will hear how the project survived publisher cancellations, lawsuits, and financial freefall, only to be revived by a dream co-writer, a timely push from Joe Rogan, and even a Netflix documentary.Through it all, Tom never walked away. Even when he was broke, sued, and threatened, he kept going, driven by the knowledge that he had uncovered truths too important to abandon. His 20-year fight to bring Chaos into the world is a story of obsession, grit, and relentless determination. And by the end of this conversation, you will see why giving up was never an option.Make sure to check out his book here: https://a.co/d/56rkUfPLearn more about Tom O’Neill and his groundbreaking book Chaos through the links below:Website: tom-oneill.orgFaceBook: facebook.com/CHAOSTheBook/Instagram: @chaoscharlesmansonX: @chaosmansonbook—Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

We are back with Mike Paton, co-author of Process! and Get a Grip in the Traction Library. Mike has spent over 15 years helping leadership teams run stronger, more efficient businesses through the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS). Alongside Gino Wickman and Lisa González, his books have reached tens of thousands of readers worldwide. Process! alone has 75,000 to 85,000 copies in the wild.In this episode, Paton breaks down how he took Process! from first release to widespread readership. From leveraging EOS Worldwide’s platform and a strategic publishing partnership with BenBella Books, to editing your message down to its clearest core, to giving away valuable content at scale, he shares exactly what is working for authors and what to stop wasting time on. He shares stage-by-stage marketing advice for authors at every level, from first-time launchers to those already selling in the tens of thousands, delivering insights that cut through the noise with practical, battle-tested wisdom.Learn how to use partnerships, clear messaging, and generosity to your advantage with real-world tactics and hard-earned lessons that will help you refine your marketing, build stronger connections with readers, and keep your book selling long after launch day.—Make sure to check out the book here: https://a.co/d/g05bwKiLearn more about Mike Paton on his website: www.mikepaton.com—Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com

What does it really take to build a business that runs without you? In today’s episode, we sit down with Mike Paton, EOS expert, speaker, and co-author of Process!, to unpack the systems behind sustainable growth.Mike Paton is the co-author of Get a Grip and Process!, two cornerstone titles in the Traction Library that help entrepreneurial teams simplify and scale through systems. Beyond his writing, Paton has spent the last 17 years guiding leaders around the world as an EOS Implementer®, keynote speaker, and host of the top-rated podcast The EOS Leader. He succeeded Traction author Gino Wickman as EOS Worldwide’s Visionary and continues to champion the tools and disciplines that help businesses run better and leaders lead more effectively.In this episode, we go deep into Process!, a book that makes building and sustaining systems feel possible even for the most visionary and creative leaders. Mike explains the three-step “process process,” how to document and simplify your company’s core operations, and why systems only work if they’re truly followed by all. He also shares practical ways to train teams, track progress, and adapt processes over time without adding unnecessary complexity. Plus, we explore how these same principles apply to book marketing, from aligning your audience to avoiding “random acts of marketing” and building campaigns that drive real results.—Make sure to check out the book here: https://a.co/d/g05bwKiLearn more about Mike Paton on his website: www.mikepaton.com—Take a second to follow, review, or share this with someone who might find it useful. Your support helps more people discover the show.—Get the popular weekly book marketing 3-2-1 and get access to our $299 Amazon Ads course when you subscribe to our newsletter here:  https://getshelflife.com/category/newsletter/Head to our new website for more content and updates.: www.getshelflife.comIf you're interested in connecting further or have any questions, feel free to email me at Alex@getshelflife.com