Can Marketing Save the Planet?

“The best companies look at their ESG disclosures as a type of social contract to tell the world, why they are here, what they are trying to achieve as a business, why the world is arguably a better place because they are here. ESG disclosure is an opportunity for an organisation to show how it is creating value - financial value and non-financial value.” It was an absolute privilege to have some time talking all things ESG with Professor Ioannis Ioannou from London Business School. Ioannis through his work and research is a leading academic, consultant and leading expert around ESG integration. As the title outlines, Ioannis explained why integrating ESG is not a reporting challenge but a strategic challenge. We kick off talking about changing demands, expectations, preferences of key stakeholders - employees, customers, social movements, activists, investors - the requirement for more accountability and transparency - and how these are all major disruptions for businesses. “There is a global cost correction embedded in ESG - and it’s time to pay the bill”. What’s clear is that the ESG journey and related organisational change is far from linear and simple. What were once thought of as challenges that governments were going to take care of have fast become core business issues. As businesses are getting to grips with how they organise themselves, there needs to be room for experimentation and vulnerability. Ioannis tells us that… ‘It’s hard to identify an audience that wouldn’t care what you’re doing about ESG these days’ and talks about ESG being a catalyst in three critical areas: Operational excellence - efficiencies Strategic excellence - future proofing the organisation Cultural excellence - aligning purpose, innovation, employee engagement We talk about the importance of authentic communication and an interesting take on the ‘silver lining’ of greenwashing. And he’s clear that… “You cannot fake your way towards caring about the world.” Gemma and I were keen to unpack ESG to get clarity about where we are with it right now, is it enough and where it’s heading. And of course, the role of communication - and how organisations bring their ESG to life to connect with key stakeholders in a meaningful way that connects and engages. This is an informative and useful discussion and Ioannis shares his depth of knowledge and expertise and does an absolutely brilliant job of making an extremely complex and fast moving topic highly understandable and relatable. “ESG is very fast moving, with proposals on the table to mandate it - ESG rating and rankings are trying to capture a moving target”. Since recording the ISSB have advised that sustainability reporting alongside financial reporting is likely to be mandatory in 2024. (Link below). And we’ve shared a number of links to articles that have chimed with us and helped us navigate our thinking. It’s just filled with ESG gold - go listen. For more about Ioannis Ioannou - you will find his LBS profile, his personal website and he’s also very active on Twitter: https://www.london.edu/faculty-and-research/faculty-profiles/i/ioannou-i http://ioannou.us/ https://twitter.com/iioannoulbs Additional article links: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/international-sustainability-standards-board-issb-upcoming-conal-love/ https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/corporate-documents/strategy-positive-change-our-esg-priorities https://www.edie.net/from-nature-restoration-to-social-equity-provision-seven-big-esg-trends-to-look-out-for-in-2023/? https://impactentrepreneur.com/esg-or-sustainability-you-choose https://plana.earth/academy/why-esg-important-companies-investors https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/climate-business-would-esg-aligned-thinking-help-wave-jordanova/ Enjoy and learn… yet again… we certainly did. #neverstoplearning

“Incremental change isn’t going to work. It's time to move now from shallow small change to systemic change at speed.” What a way to kick off conversations with marketing pros for 2023 with not one, but three courageous pacesetters leading the way and shaking things up and shining a light on the necessary change required in the advertising industry. Lisa Merrick Lawless, Rob McFaul and Jonathan Wise, Co-Founders of Purpose Disruptors, an organisation and movement challenging the ad industry to move towards being in service of a thriving future for all. Diving into latest updates from their advertised emissions research they showcase how in 2019 advertised emissions equated to 186M tonnes and how in 2022, their recent research has seen an 11% increase in advertised emissions in UK… “The more advertising there is, the more sales, the more advertised emissions.” Findings show that all sectors however, are not equal when it comes to advertised emissions. For example, the automotive industry at only 6% ad spend, actually drives 30% of advertised emissions. Other carbon intensive categories include flying and red meat. The share the idea and radical invitation for the ad industry to come together to ask the government to ban advertising for these carbon intensive industries. “Can we accept that change requires us to stop things. If the industry can come to terms with that, then we have a great opportunity to let new possibilities come through.” From our conversation a year ago we revisit progress with regards to their Good Life citizen research and it’s exciting to hear more about their campaign around exploring what 2030 could look like, The Future 2030 campaigns and how they’re exploring business models that require transformational Horizon Three Thinking. Trust us there is so much wisdom and so many practical insights in this conversation. Far too many to summarise here in the show notes - so our advice is - tune in, you’ll be so glad you did - we guarantee you’ll have questions, feel challenged (in a good way) and be totally inspired to take action. For more about Purpose Disruptors, their research, meet ups and invitations to get involved visit www.purposedisruptors.org. And for more about The Good Life visit www.goodlife2030.earth Enjoy and learn… we certainly did . ________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Sustainability is making marketing exciting again…” Gemma and I are used to asking the questions on our Can Marketing Save the Planet podcast - but in this episode, we were interviewed for a live ‘MarketingKind Digital Fireside’ session hosted by Caroline Taylor, sustainable marketing trailblazer and former CMO at IBM - together with the wonderful founders of Marketing Kind and a great bunch of marketers. For those of you that don’t know about MarketingKind… it’s a community of business leaders, marketers and change-makers who come together to make marketing mean more. You’ll hear us talk about why we wrote our book, what we’ve learned over the past couple of years as our work and worlds have become more embodied in driving education and awareness and necessary change within the marketing profession. What’s surprised us, disheartened us, encouraged us, what we’re teaching, how, where, why - and what’s to come. It was fun being on this side of the interview for a change - and there was lots to glean from everyone involved in this juicy conversation. Tune in - enjoy. And for more… be sure to follow, subscribe to our Can Marketing Save the Planet podcast, check out our site and stay connected here. To find out more and join the MarketingKind community - more info here: A great way to kick off our 2023 podcast - and needless to say, we’ve got plenty more fantastic guests coming up… ________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“If you double your marketing budget, you don’t necessarily get double the sales because of diminishing returns, but when it comes to carbon emissions, doubling your budget, may not just double but quadruple your CO2 emissions. As marketers we need to understand the impact of our plans and activities and consider a new set of priorities and KPIs.”   And we couldn’t agree more… As you’ll hear in this podcast interview with Jo Young, Managing Director at Unifida, Gemma and I were keen to find out more about how their data and carbon counter is helping marketers to green their marketing by understanding the carbon impact of their planned activities. Whenever we talk about and teach Sustainable Marketing, Gemma and I always revisit the key fact that as marketers, our objectives are aligned with organisational objectives - and so when organisations are setting decarbonisation targets, it’s critical that marketers understand the responsible role they play in supporting those targets. Marketers are often managing some of the largest budgets within an organisation, and so in that endeavour, not only do we need to be considering traditional ROI, but also considering how we drive positive commercial impact to the business, whilst ensuring we’re working within the boundaries of those wider organisational targets to ensure we don’t blow the decarbonisation budget. In order to do that efficiently, we have to understand where we are and understand the carbon impact of the activities we have done and are planning - this then enables us to make informed choices, consider priorities and drives creativity and innovation in where, when, what and how we market and communicate. And this is exactly where Unifida’s Carbon Counter steps in. Jo shares with us the practicalities of their carbon counter, the research and scrutiny that’s gone into validating the resource, how it works, what it measures (above and below the line) - and shares insights with us about how marketers are starting to measure the carbon impact of marketing activities to better understand the levers they need to pull to do a better job in supporting wider organisational targets. Jo talks about the third dimension… ‘marketers need to consider cost of sale, sales and now carbon emissions’. If getting your head around how to green your marketing activity (and as you’ll hear from Jo, it’s an increasingly sought after endeavour), then tune in, take a listen to what’s possible via the tool, and explore some of the data findings Jo and her team share on their site. For more information visit https://unifida.co.uk/ - and to connect with Jo - her LinkedIn profile is here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joyoung2/ ________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Do you ask yourself as a marketer, “with all the decisions I took today, did I accelerate the transition to net zero, or slow it down? If the conclusion at the end of the day is that you slowed it down - well you really don’t want to be there. Accelerating the transition is where marketers need to be.” Wim advises that all marketers should ‘put the planet in the room’ - literally. Tune in to the third question we ask all guests in our round up - as to how this action changes everything. It’s a fantastic discussion - with loads of takeaways… we talk science, language, communication and more with Wim Vermeulen, Director of Strategy and Sustainability at Bubka, and author of ‘Speak up Now! Marketing in Times of Climate Crisis’. A book Wim felt he had to write so he could share all his learnings through the work he’s been doing with the University of Ghent around when and how climate communication is successful and when it’s not. From his research across a range of sectors reviewing the language and impact of sustainability focused storylines and campaigns - the findings show that there’s a huge credibility gap in every sector - only 9.7% of sustainable campaigns are actually credible. The fact that over 90% of people don’t believe sustainability storylines led the research team to dissect what actually does drive credibility. Wim shares 5 key drivers - and you really don’t want to miss what he has to say around these. As they are critical drivers for marketers to consider with every brief or project. Wim highlights the need to not only look at ‘supply side’, but equally urgent, the ‘demand side’, and how a conversation he had with IPCC lead author Prof. Dr. Felix Creutzig explained the need for, ‘social norming of sustainable consumption, and the global reductions that can bring.’ Addressing the ‘demand side’ is something that cannot be ignored, but as Wim explained, “in 2021, in Europe, 48% of products launched were climate friendly, but then, if you look a pricing across industries and products, the average premium for a climate friendly product is 75-85%, so that’s now a choice.” Wim goes on to explain that, “Bain calculated the average cost to decarbonise a product was less than 5% of the total cost on average”. This goes against the objective of changing behaviours as once again price becomes the default reason for purchase, demand isn’t being created for climate friendly products in the way that it should be and, profit is being placed over planet and people. Sometimes as marketers, our need to call something by a different name to make it stand out, or more impactful can actually do more harm than good, and when the need for everyone to move in the same direction is so critical, we cannot afford there to be confusion, as it slows progress. “We need to stop inventing terms. Everything has been defined by scientists. Trust the science. There are 10 key terms - defined by climate scientists, that’s the Bible - use it!” There is so much in this episode as Wim talks through some examples of organisations who are leading the way, leadership and once again the role of marketing and communications is highlighted as critical in moving us towards a more sustainable future. So, tune in and have a listen!! For more about Wim’s work, books, research and documentaries visit https://www.wimvermeulen.com/ ________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Marketers have the largest job of the lives ahead of them. They have got to drive systemic behaviour change and move us collectively from this linear extractive wasteful, entirely unsustainable model of consumption, that our whole economy and economics is currently based on, and move people over to the sustainable circular economy.” Summarising the conversation we had with Tessa is a bit of a challenge, simply because in such a short space of time, we covered sooooo much. Food waste is one of the largest problems facing humanity today – the statistics are startling. Globally a third of all food we produce - that’s over a trillion US$ of food is being thrown away every year.  If food waste was a country it would be the 3rd largest source of greenhouse gas emissions. Clearly the environmental impact is devastating - landmass, manufacturing, packaging, distribution, refridgeration, landfill emitting deadly levels of methan etc etc. But there’s equally a moral and social problem around food waste - particularly at a time where, in the UK, and around the globe we’re in the grips of a cost of living crisis, with families struggling to put food on the table. Olio is focused on one very specific part of the enormous problem –and for the UK, it’s the largest problem. 50% of food waste in the UK is from food waste in the home, whilst only 2% at retail store level - so there’s much to do about educating people - but also providing people with a simple and effective solution to connect with local people and share and redistribute what would otherwise go to waste. And Olio steps into this role just perfectly. Tessa shares the latest research from Olio - showcasing that not only do people feel good to know that something has gone on to have a new life or second life with someone else - they also found that sharing creates connection, improving mental health and strengthens local communities. “Taking care of each other and supporting one another is an important part of being human”. Olio takes the best of tech and melds it with the best of humanity. (And we can personally vouch that it works, as users of the app for a while now - it’s simple and yes you do feel good about getting involved in redistributing ‘stuff’). And Olio doesn’t just work on a personal level, there’s a B2B component too - working with over 60,000 trained volunteers across the country and local retail stores to redistribute what would become food waste into the local community. It’s a win - win - win. There’s no doubt that you’ll love this entire conversation - and Tessa’s answers to our timeless 3 questions are GOLD. Our call to action to you is listen and try the app yourself visit https://olioex.com/ it truly is a game changer - (and it’s not just about food - as you’ll hear - you can share and redistribute anything you no longer need). Huge thanks to Tessa for coming on the show and sharing her wisdom and her important work and impact. Something we can all be a part of. Go do it. Rescue and redistribute here: https://olioex.com/ ______________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“How are we (marketers) going to tell a true story about climate and our impact on the climate, so that we can change the systems in our lives, so that we tread more resiliently on the earth, and are more proud of what we are doing, and as a byproduct, build better communities with more equity and fairness?" A question we explore in-depth with the marketing legend, Seth Godin. It was an absolute pleasure talking to Seth, who really needs no introduction - entrepreneur, writer and one of the world's most famous bloggers and thinkers and more recently, coordinator and champion of 'The Carbon Almanac', a project he describes, "as the most important of his career". This conversation as you would expect is full of insight, open and honest opinion and one which left us smiling. We talk about his latest project, 'The Carbon Almanac', an incredible book created by 300 people in 41 countries as part of a volunteer based project. “It’s a source of reliable and easily understandable knowledge on climate change…that you can share to create meaningful impact.” We talk about how the project was pulled together and Seth explains, that when it come to climate change, "we need to talk about it before we can do something about, but we can't talk about it if we don't understand it'. And we couldn’t agree more - education and awareness offer the essential spark to ignite action. You’ll hear us unpack the 'tyranny of convenience' and talk climate shaming as well as delving into culture and community. And, we couldn't have a conversation with Seth without discussing the big question - ‘What is marketing?’ Seth asks some big questions such as "how are we (marketers) going to tell a true story about climate and our impact on the climate, so that we can change the systems in our lives, so that we tread more resiliently on the earth, and are more proud of what we are doing, and as a byproduct, build better communities with more equity and fairness?" And, as marketers, "how do you award status and affiliation to people who are working with you to change the system?" - Mind blown! There is so much knowledge and wisdom packed into this episode, you just need to go and listen....we know you'll enjoy it as much as we did. Huge thanks to Seth for his time and insights. Yet again, we learned so much - enjoy listening, tell us what you think - and reflect on what action it’s inspired you to take. More about The Carbon Almanac Project here - https://thecarbonalmanac.org/ and of course for Seth’s blog and words of wisdom https://www.sethgodin.com/

“Advertising can be important as it can make new ideas win and kick out old ideas – but campaigns aren’t trying to kick anything out – they’re just saying, you can have us as well. Where are the train campaigns that are aggressively going after the airliners, where are the co-owned car services that are aggressively going after the SUVs?”   Needless to say, we loved this conversation. We hear how the ‘do it yourself’ punk ethos led Gustav from founding a punk band to a successful award winning digital advertising agency with offices in Stockholm, Gothenberg and San Francisco. Gustav tells us how he was fast becoming disillusioned with some of the campaigns he was working on - (broken hearted in some cases) - with assignments becoming less playful and far more commercial. “The internet was moving from being a distributed democratic playground into a cloud controlled user experience owned by a few players - giving them control over creativity and messaging - and that felt a bit scary and weird - and not the environment I really loved.” This shift coincided with the release of Al Gore’s ‘An Inconvenient Truth’. And Gustav tells us that at that time, he saw CO2 reduction as an opportunity, not a threat. “Change felt like a good thing - I had no idea we wouldn’t embrace it - why wouldn’t we use this opportunity to create a better life.” We hear about Gustav’s move from agency life to Greenpeace - the fossil fuel ad ban campaigns, the creative inspiration behind handing back his ‘Lion’ at the 2022 Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity and how that action struck an emotional chord with the industry, making headline news across ad land. There’s a lot covered in our conversation beyond activism and we discuss the fundamental role of advertising and marketing - how people don’t understand how marketing works, how advertising changes behaviours, creating unnecessary desires and culture change to align with business models that are wrecking the planet, but with a focus on driving more profit. Gustav shares examples of creative work and business remodelling concepts he championed - one example of how in 2007 he built the digital infrastructure for Scandinavian Airlines to become a ‘travel and meeting’ business - including CO2 reduction via train travel and online meetings. And how 2 years later the project was discontinued to refocus on short term profit. “I got so many briefs that just made me want to puke - and I knew it was just going to get worse. I realised that unless we disrupt this from the outside, nothing is going to change. I had the privilege to do that - if you have the privilege to get out and disrupt from the outside, you should.”   We discuss society, a simpler life, less focus on consumption, more focus on living, connecting, being. As Gustav shares… “You need to change your lifestyle and it needs to be changed on a system level.” Huge thanks to Gustav for his time and insights. Yet again, we learned so much - enjoy listening, tell us what you think. Feeling challenged, motivated and ready to disrupt from the outside? Let us know. More information about Greenpeace, the wonderful work they do and how you can support here. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“The fossil fuel industry is an industry in decline - being outcompeted by better technologies. The narrative we’re fighting against is that solving climate change is a sacrifice. We cannot afford not to have the best marketers around the world world focused on exactly this.” A truly informative episode where we talk with Zach Stein, Co Founder of The Carbon Collective about the realities of sustainable investment - from a personal perspective. Zach shares so many insights, backed up with real-world examples. What’s clear is that aligned with changing behaviour, we need to change the ingrained narratives around climate change - namely being, it’s not a sacrifice, but indeed an incredible opportunity - providing exciting opportunity for innovation and doing things differently. “The world isn’t going to up give air conditioning - we need to find ways to still have the lifestyles we have, but in a way that is not threatening to our climate.” We talk about how when we change the narrative, it can have a dramatic impact. He shares data about the US coal index and how over the period from 2011-2022 it fell 99%. This wasn’t because we stopped using coal – but because the narrative around coal changed. Coal no longer has a long term future – the narrative has switched to coal fundamentally being an industry in decline. Leading to divestment in the fossil fuel industry and investment into smarter technologies. Of course with profits at an all time high, it’s unlikely any fossil fuel industry isn’t going to continue making hay whilst the sun shines - Zach states that these companies have queues of customers coming out of their offices and all around many blocks. So the key isn’t to try and get the fossil fuel industry to change, which is unlikely to happen - but instead - to get to the people in the queues and make them aware that there is a better way, more financially viable, better for their personal environment, cleaner air etc - and of course, better for the planet. “As you’re weighing up which personal actions you should take – look at the big pieces of your life, the gears that run your life in the background – the big weighty decisions – green your investments, move your money, move your energy – the good news is, once it’s done, it’s done.” Latest research from Make your Money Matter reveals that the carbon footprint of FTSE100 pensions is 7 times higher than the total reported emissions of those companies! Yes, that’s right – the emissions financed by company pensions is 7x higher than the emissions produced by those businesses. And with £20BN invested in company pensions annually, as Zach states, instead of being invested in fossil fuels that money could be invested in things like clean technology and renewable energy instead. And that starts with you. Take action, read more via Make your Money Matter here Meanwhile, I’m sure you’ll enjoy the podcast, motivating, action focused and filled with lots of practical advice and direction. More information about The Carbon Collective and Zach Stein here. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“As an industry we can go from seriously being part of the problem to leading the solution. We’re the final piece of the machine slotting into the climate movement, speeding up solutions. But we cannot be doing that whilst we’re also serving the destruction. We can’t do both. And that tension is growing every day.” When we heard Solitaire’s Ted Talk, ‘Are ad agencies, PR firms and lobbyists destroying the climate?’ (which has almost 1.8million views), we were keen to pick her brains and share her wisdom. Co-founder and Chief Solutionist at Futerra, (a title she switched from CEO to in line with her mission to be part of the solution), Solitaire has been championing sustainability in advertising and marketing since 2001. So we were thrilled when she accepted our invitation to have a chat about Industry X, climate change, brainprint, her story and impact so far, climate science, Race to Net Zero and her predictions and projections. In this podcast there’s a lot we unpack - Solitaire is very clear that marketing, advertising and communications has indeed been a part of the problem - and now we have a significant opportunity to lead the transition. And we explore the practicalities of what that looks like. As well as being a highly creative and successful business woman, Solitaire is also a self confessed climate geek. Her position in understanding the climate science alongside a deep awareness of the industry has led her to sit on many key advisory bodies. Solitaire clearly explains the United Nations backed, Race to Zero initiative, how businesses can join the race to climate change, pledging carbon reduction commitments, in the same way countries have done via The Paris Agreement. This leads us to talk about the scopes of the carbon responsibility - and we touch on Scope 1, 2 and 3. Scope 3 being the one including the entire value chain - encompassing Brainprint. We go on to talk client disclosure reporting and transparency - and potential levels of discomfort some businesses have in revealing those. We also discuss the practicalities of carbon reduction - carbon impact calculations, offsetting, insetting, carbon removals and destruction. Like we said… there’s a lot we cover. It’s a wonderful conversation - and Solitaire brings that wonderful balance of understanding both the industry and the science. One thing Solitaire is absolutely clear on… “Marketing, communications and creativity is one of the industries that is going to make the transition to a low carbon economy faster and more efficient. All we have to do it change our minds!” And you’ll love the closing quick fire 3 questions and answers. Solitaire’s Ted Talk is here: Visit Futerra. Great article here too: You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.