Can Marketing Save the Planet?

“Marketing is the management science of empathy - we need deep empathy if we want to take humanity and our economy through this massive change that we are facing.” Marketing will not save the world, but we will not save the world without marketing. In this episode we talk with Nicolas Lambert, author of, “Can Marketing Save the World”, (we know… a title very close to our hearts) and no surprises that it’s a book all about marketing and sustainability, An experienced and passionate marketer, he was CEO of Fairtrade Belgium, marketing executive at Unilever, AB InBev, Heineken and BBDO - and more recently, author and lecturer. We loved delving into the practicalities of sustainable marketing with Nicolas. “Sustainability and marketing, two things that don’t work together, but they should and now have to.” Nicolas places marketing as the engine of an organisation and explains the opportunity for Marketers is to “broaden the scope of interaction”. Expanding their view to include the broader stakeholder chain so they don’t leave themselves with a large blind spot in their strategies. When it comes to people, planet and profit or as Nicolas calls it, “the ménage à trios” he believes this needs to be at the core of what Marketers do, but acknowledges the challenges and underlying tensions that exist in the relationship between organisations and their stakeholders as we look for solutions and balance. We covered so much in this episode with Nicolas as he shared his insights, experience and knowledge on the role of regulation, the need for Marketers to support their organisations’ sustainable agendas and, that all important missing sense of urgency. Of course, we couldn’t talk sustainable marketing without discussing greenwashing which Nicolas believes, “most of the time it’s not because of cynicism of companies, it’s not because they want to be seen as greener than they are and manipulative, I think people are just being clumsy. They have a lack of knowledge and are applying traditional marketing tactics to sustainability, and that doesn’t work, and then they are surprised – because they just don’t get it.” Once again the need for Marketers to be more aware and educate themselves couldn’t be clearer. So, tune in and check out resources such as Nicolas’s framework, the “fourteen levers to make marketing more sustainable.” he mentions which can be found here. (And don’t be fooled by the title of the slide - the document is in English ;)). ________________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.   Marketing - The Management Science of Empathy, with Nicolas Lambert, Expert, Author, Can Marketing Save the Planet, Author, Nicolas Lambert - Can Marketing Save the World?

“We need people to communicate in a way that gives all of us an ability to move forward in a positive direction.” The built environment – it’s a massive subject, a massive industry and a massive contributor of emissions, (buildings and construction are responsible for approx. 40% of global energy related and carbon dioxide emission). There is a lot of work to be done and the challenge requires collaboration, knowledge and action at scale. We had the pleasure of talking to Brigette Clements, strategic lead at The Architects Climate Action Network (ACAN) and managing director at Lowkey Architecture and Developments. With both a technical and creative background, Brigette works with, “impact driven investors on projects simply, that I believe in, and that hit the highest metrics of sustainability.” We wanted to explore the role ACAN plays and the work they do in trying to drive “change”. Brigette explained they have three main aims, 1) decarbonise now, 2) ecological regeneration and 3) cultural transformation. The focus of ACAN is across a broad range of issues, from the circular economy through to existing buildings and retrofit and climate literacy and professional standards. Big on action and output, their work delivers resources, knowledge and awareness across their network and beyond (you don’t have to be in the built environment to be a part of ACAN and their work). With policies, trends and needs changing in the built environment faster than ever before, the need to be educated, aware and up to date is critical. But, as Brigette points out, it’s one thing sharing how great you are on social media, but, “nobody is really coming out to talk about their failures or their lack of knowledge which is something we need. We need to build on the knowledge of others, learn from the mistakes of others.” Something Brigette is challenging as it slows progress. And a common theme from many of our podcast guests - calling for shared, lived experience. A highly complex industry we discuss the issues, the politics, the activism, the challenges and the opportunities. Brigette shares her knowledge, experience and views on what is happening and what needs to happen. A firm believer that communication and the stories we tell are some of the strongest tools we have, Brigette adds, “we are designers and we are problem solvers, we are thinkers, we’ve got all the tools around us, we’ve got a lot of knowledge, we just need a bit of energy and collective action to make it happen.” Whether you’re a professional in the built environment or a citizen who lives in it, tune in to hear for yourself why it’s critical that we understand what is happening and take responsibility in driving progress towards a more sustainable future. More information about ACAN can be found here. Where you’ll find information about their work and meet-ups. ________________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“There’s really no way you can say you don’t know this is a dangerous activity at this point” Making a return to the podcast, we caught up with Duncan Meisel, founder of Clean Creatives, so we could talk about the newly published F-List. For anyone unfamiliar, Clean Creatives, is a movement of advertisers, PR professionals, and their clients cutting ties with fossil fuels.The F-List is a body of research and report which documents agencies who choose to continue working with fossil fuel organisations despite the scientific consensus that what they do is destroying the planet. It really doesn’t get much clearer than that. We dive straight into this conversation finding out what has been happening with the Clean Creative campaign, its progress and of course, that infamous F-List. Duncan reveals that over 800 agencies have now taken the pledge including their first large agency (over a 1000 employees). When looking at the agencies who have made the bold commitment no to work with fossil fuel organisations vs, those who are on the F-List, Duncan points out, “there’s really no way you can say you don’t know this is a dangerous activity at this point” – the F-list is just highlighting to people those agencies who are choosing to ignore all the warnings. The F-List has evolved over the last 3 years, with more focus on the data, the sources and as Duncan explains, they were able to do both a global and multilingual search this time. They also had a much shorter reporting timeframe, “this year we tried to be really precise and look for agencies that were doing work right now in 2022 and 2023, the hottest years in human history.” We discuss the fact that despite all the evidence, the F-List agencies continue to try and defend their work, and the role the 800+ agencies committed to the Clean Creatives pledge have in telling their stories about change and progress. The more we share our work on the good stuff, the solutions and the opportunities around that the more we can work together to move away from those things that do the most harm. This conversation is one not to miss, whether you work for an agency or with agencies, it’s important to be aware of the F-List and the work that Clean Creatives are doing. For more information about Clean Creatives - https://cleancreatives.org/ And if you catch this podcast in time to join Duncan and the Clean Creatives team in London for their Happy Hour on the 31st October - there’s an invitation and more details to that event here. ________________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Carrying on from Part 1, this episode jumps straight into the tactical side, where Caroline shares her views on the opportunities around digital, making the point that, “listening for a business is such a wealth of value which can be done in an automated way, and is the way forward to be commercially successful.” Moving on to metrics and measures an area with many questions but not enough answers yet, we talked about how we have to go beyond the corporate metrics of revenue and profit. Whilst these are still important metrics, the need to broaden out what we measure and what ‘good performance’ looks like is critical. Caroline explains that influence was a big deal at IBM, influence and reputation metrics are valuable both from a B2B and B2C perspective. But….and this is important, Caroline points out in when it comes to why people buy from and engage with you, “the big challenge for marketers is, those reasons have to be authentic, they have to be real, there has to be credibility behind them.” The ability to look broadly, do the right thing and meet all the points of value creation are what make marketing and indeed this conversation so interesting. Caroline shares some top actions she believes marketers need to be doing and of course we ask her that all important question, ‘Can marketing save the planet?’ This is not one to be missed, it will leave you with so much to think about and take forward, so tune in, listen and tell us what you think… ________________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“There are four questions every business needs good answers to. Why would anyone want to buy from us? Why would anyone want to work for us? Why would anyone want to invest in us? Why would anyone allow us to operate in their community, society?” It’s another two-parter and in this episode (Part 1), we dive into the role of CMOs and leaders when it comes to the sustainability agenda. We were joined by Caroline Taylor OBE, former CMO for IBMs international business and a huge advocate for ‘adding value in many other places in the world.’ Already aware of sustainability back in the early 2000’s Caroline got really focused in the mid 2000’s when IBM was doing work in ‘green IT’ and 2% of global carbon emissions were attributed to IT. Caroline explains, “I was very struck with the notion…but what about the other 98% and how we might use technology to mitigate that?” It was at that point she fell down the sustainability rabbit hole and started looking into how IBM could become a greater part of the solution whilst at the same time, find new ways to differentiate. As well as looking for answers externally, Caroline talks at depth about the need to changes hearts and minds on sustainability internally, and raises the important point that to do this effectively requires conversations which focus on, “why this is a business opportunity as opposed to being a really important thing to do.” Caroline explains, “learning how to shift my focus from here’s a brilliant marketing idea, to here’s a brilliant business idea that’s going to make us money, our shareholders will love us, but it’s going to be tapping into something that is really important societally at the same time, is a win, win, win.” And, when it comes to stakeholder engagement we have to understand that, “enlightenment is important but the self-interest is real – we have to think about all of our stakeholder and what’s in it for them” The need for leaders to recognise and see the opportunity in sustainability is so critical to balancing the triple bottom line and protecting the sustainability of their business. This episode explores the need for investment, the shift away from short-term thinking and strategising and the very real, tough choices and prioritisation that organisations need to make. Caroline also shares her insights into the role B2B marketing and business plays….for marketing she says it’s about “taking all the smart marketers that care and taking them outside of their day jobs to figure out how to use all those marketing skills to educate and engage and empower people to make better choices.” And, we couldn’t agree more, the case for education and awareness and the significant role and opportunity marketers and leaders have really shines through in this episode. So, tune in and listen, and don’t forget there’s Part 2 in two weeks time where we continue the conversation, delving into the tactical side of marketing, the importance of listening and the challenge of what to measure when it comes to value creation around driving a more sustainable marketing agenda. ________________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Being sustainable is a story of assumed negatives, but it’s actually a story of discovered positives.” We were joined in this episode by Simon Garnett who has been on a personal journey with consumption, one which he started when he realised his own habits were unhealthy, a journey he continues and has taken into his professional life as well. Simon shares with us the moment he decided to reappraise his consumption with ‘new’ and how after a year it moved to him reappraising his consumption overall. Simon explains, whenever he tells anyone his story he gets asked two questions “after a year of not consuming, what was the first things you bought and, what did you miss?” These questions only made it clearer for Simon that, “the engagement with this story, the engagement with the concept of not buying new, is absolutely, integrally rooted in a concept of loss. But, from his perspective and experience it was the total opposite, and as the headline to this episode highlights, “It’s a story of assumed negatives, which is actually a story of discovered positives.” We go on to explore the tensions that exist once you embark on a more sustainable way of living and the challenge of taking what you’ve learned to influence others at scale. Simon explains that he wants to create meaning around consumption and highlight that is isn’t about success and it definitely shouldn’t be viewed as inconvenient if you decide to cut down or buy second-hand. For Simon, marketing has been primarily about “driving consumption of new, and consumption of new is what equals success.”  Sustainability is often associated with having less, or being told you can’t have something and Simon acknowledges that the message we need to consume less is a strong one, but given how much we waste, how can that be a loss if we don’t even use what we do buy.  Michelle shares a recent room refurbishment, something she found incredibly creative, down to the paint which she got through the sharing app, Olio. Through this journey Michelle discovered a number of services she didn’t know existed and that sense of not just taking the convenient route brought a deeper feeling of fulfilment. However, she points out the reason she hadn’t heard of these services, is because they are not being talked about enough. There are so many stories not yet being told. Simon worries that the sense of “build it and they will come” risks relying on platforms and infrastructure to deliver and make re-commerce successful with a great user experience but it’s not, it’s about the stories we need to be telling. Simon explains, “what we’re competing with is not just inconvenience, but decades of messaging that new equals success and second hand is a bit dirty and undesirable.” Marketing has such an important role, and Simon believes we can rewrite the story. There are many discovered benefits to sustainable living. What is your experience? Tune in and listen to this episode and make it a personal objective to share your personal stories and experiences, after all, we all need to be shouting louder when it comes to the benefits. And to join the Re-commerce Revolution LinkedIn group Simon mentions - the link is here: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14191082/ _______________________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Through marketing campaigns we can bring sustainability and growing smaller more sustainable brands to the front and drive capital away from big brands.” Where better to get the viewpoints from Gen Z about climate concerns and consumption habits than directly from a Gen Z’er. On this podcast were joined by Estella Struck, Founder and CEO of the first Gen Z Sustainable Product Marketing Agency based in New York. Estella found herself on the right side of TikTok during the lockdowns of 2020 and it was from here that her passion for sustainability was ignited.  Coming out of the pandemic armed with her increased knowledge of the challenges around sustainability, Estella noticed the shifts in weather patterns. She also became more aware of what brands were saying in order to try and influence where Gen Z spend their money and drive consumption. Whilst Estella acknowledges there are some barriers when it comes to sustainable brands engaging with Gen Z such as location, accessibility and levels of disposable income, she believes there is a huge opportunity in reaching Gen Z through social media in a way that can raise awareness and change behaviours, encouraging them to put their money into sustainable brands supporting them in making sustainability more affordable. Estella tells us, “what we see and what we consume influences what we do and how we act in our daily lives, our recent research revealed that Gen Z is more likely than any other generation to shop via social media”. Long form content may not always be an option on social, but creating a series is a powerful way to build awareness and knowledge whilst as she puts it “still provides that dopamine hit from the action of scrolling and seeing a new video.” Estella believes her generation are sceptical of large corporates who launch sustainable lines or schemes, but more than that many Gen Z work in retail and see first-hand the levels of product, packaging and waste. She would like to see corporations doing more to reduce their impacts and address issues in their supply chains. Until they start doing that it will always come across as a cash grab and greenwashing. Estella is all for supporting and growing smaller more sustainable organisations, she is a believer in social movements putting pressure on brands to change, but sustainability isn’t as front of mind as it needs to be, but as she states, “I know through marketing campaigns that we can bring it to the front and drive capital away from big brands.” Estella shares her knowledge of social media both from a personal and professional perspective, and the work her agency does to ensure authenticity is an absolute priority. She is conscious that large audiences are left out and explains, “my goal to start an agency was to make the sustainability community more inclusive and encompassing so they felt like they had a place here because in the end sustainability isn’t just an environmental issue but an everyone issue”. Wise words indeed. This is a podcast we encourage organisations big and small to tune into if they are serious about wanting to drive change. Estella and her generation have the most to lose if we do not change the course we are on, they are also a key driver of change across people, planet and profit. The fears are real and we all need to take responsibility and play our part.  For more information about Estella and Viviene NY see: https://www.linkedin.com/company/viviene-new-york _______________________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Building a culture of trust around green claims is the most important thing marketers, business and brands should be doing, using advertising self- regulation as a tool, making sure everyone is upholding those standards.” As regulations and guidelines in and around sustainability continue to evolve, tighten up and support a better future around managing both what we do AND say, we spoke to Laura Brett whose remit is to lead the US system of advertising self-regulation looking at advertising claims to make sure what is being said is the truth, (like the Advertising Standards Agency – ASA, in the UK). Laura makes it clear from the outset, that as a body, they look at one simple standard, and that is, “that advertising claims are truthful and not misleading, which also means you have to be transparent when advertising to consumers.” Greenwashing continues to make headlines globally with organisations being called out, investigated, or having their ads banned, whether due to misleading information, not telling the full story or only focusing on the ‘good’ whilst omitting the bad. All of which is incredibly damaging to people, planet and the organisations themselves. Laura begins by explaining that actually, most complaints about claims in the US are brought to them not by consumers, but by competitors, one organisation challenging another. As she puts it, “the adversarial system is alive and well!” Laura goes on to explain that “the BBB National Programmes also open claims themselves both from consumers and from their own observations.” During our discussion we discuss how the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) are currently in the process of reviewing their ‘Green Guides’ and inviting comment. Whilst the FTC do this every 10 years, Laura explains that this time round it feels particularly important because advertising needs to be held to a certain standard if we are to make progress in tackling the social and environmental challenges we face. The ‘Green Guides’ are incredibly valuable for Marketers in terms of providing guidance, they can also be used to highlight what is being talked about and where gaps in knowledge might be. Any marketer looking at the guides should as a baseline know what the terms in them mean, and if they don’t they need to go and find out. Laura talks about organisations who make carbon neutral claims without an achievable plan, and how if claims are going to be made, a plan has to be in place to show the pathway they are taking to meet that claim, even if that plan changes. Laura believes the FTCs focus is on closing the gaps in the ‘Green Guides’. The real issue however in amongst all of this isn’t whether one gets into trouble with the regulator, but the continued erosion of trust and that is where the damage really impacts brands in terms of reputation and culture - making them unfavourable to consumers and people not wanting to work for them.  Another valuable episode for both Marketers in the US and, Marketers marketing to the US, providing advice and support to you as key stakeholders in supporting your organisations’ sustainable agendas, as Laura states, “building a culture of trust around green claims is the most important thing marketers, business and brands should be doing, using advertising self- regulation as a tool, making sure everyone is upholding those standards.” So tune in and listen! Marketers can stay up to date with what is happening across advertising in the US by visiting: https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings https://bbbprograms.org/programs/advertising/all-programs#decisions _______________________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

How do you get a return on your investment for your business, AND at the same time deliver a return on investment for the planet, ensuring everyone benefits? In this episode we’re joined by Gavin Sheppard and Rob Cheesewright from Pinwheel, an organisation focused on projects that remove carbon from the atmosphere, restore habitats and protect biodiversity - to discuss that very question. Given there’s a lot of terminology that can become quite confusing, we kick things off with some jargon busting diving into offsetting, carbon capture and, carbon removal. Offsetting has been the subject of controversial debate recently, as some argue it’s ineffective and many schemes are a ‘license to pollute’, and so it’s really important do the homework around what is out there, not taking things at face value, and remembering that the focus has to be on reduce, reduce, reduce. When it comes to carbon capture and carbon removal, these are very different things, but, again there is confusion with the terms being mixed, up, used interchangeably and not really telling the story that allows informed decisions and progress to be made. Whilst they both make up a critical part of the Net Zero journey, they also play very different roles (you’ll need to listen in to find out more!) Gavin tells us, “the science tells us that businesses need to do three things. The first is, reduce your own emissions and the impact on the planet, but it’s much broader than carbon, and that’s inside your value chain. Outside of your value chain you need to do two other things, remove legacy carbon and waste, investing in projects that do that in a high quality way, and the third thing we need to do is restore, and it’s these last two parts that Pinwheel helps with.” It is the high quality restoration projects that have a conclusive response to the sizeable issues we are facing. Where marketing comes in (as we talk about so often on this podcast) is the communication piece around what are complex solutions, translating in a way that is engaging, motivating and helps people understand, and more importantly, want to understand and take action. The carbon removal projects Pinwheel fund around the world do just that. Not only are they are effective and restorative, they are a massive opportunity to tell some really inspiring stories which grab the attention of people, build trust and make them part of making a positive difference and, they make you smile. [Indeed, Can Marketing Save the Planet is investing in such projects for that very reason - and you can get involved in that too - more on that later!]. From a marketing perspective, it’s all about shifting mindsets, a vital step if we are to change behaviours. Rob raises the point around the mindset shift to ‘contribution’ being so important, he explains, that it, “decouples the harm being done on one side to the good on the other, the problem with compensation approaches, or offset or carbon neutral is it aims to say, don’t worry, the harm hasn’t happened, we’ve neutralised it, the contribution mindset says, we just need to contribute to the biggest impactful things we can, it is not seeking to edge away the other stuff.” The bottom line is, we need to create a balanced ecosystem where life can thrive on this planet, and as Gavin simply says, “stop covering up the shit that we’ve done”. So, where to start? Pinwheel recommends the WWF blueprint… (link below). And we, working alongside Pinwheel, encourage everyone to not only listen to this episode, (it’s full of advice business needs to know, and start doing), but to also go over to our Can Marketing Save the Planet investment fund - and get involved and start making a difference. Every £ helps. We’re focused on three projects: Seagrass restoration - ocean based - big impact  Wolf protection - critical and seldom talked about Forest restoration in the Andes - we need to support forest restoration desperately. Get involved here: https://www.pinwheel.earth/can-marketing-save-the-planet For more projects head over to the Pinwheel website. Remember, this isn’t a cost, it’s an investment in the future of everything. WWF Blueprint - https://www.wwf.org.uk/blueprint-pr19 ____________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“If you ever think you are too small to influence change on a global scale, just look at what Wales are doing.” We were intrigued and excited to have the opportunity to chat with Sophie Howe, the first and only (for a period of time) ‘Future Generations Commissioner’ in the world! Sophie was appointed Future Generations Commissioner for Wales in 2016. Wales has committed to 7 long-term wellbeing goals for future generations. This is all about a long term vision, preventing future problems, working collaboratively and involving citizens, (and importantly, it’s a legal obligation - rather than a pledge). As Sophie advises… “It’s the law, you have to do it,” - and this is the difference, tangible accountability! As Sophie shares how the commitments have come into play and the practicalities of embedding them, she explains how Wales has committed to stop spending money in building roads which when taking a long-term view, is a public health intervention. 14-15% of emissions in the country come from transport, and by reducing emissions from road transport there are multiple future benefits triggered, from emissions reduction through to health and wellbeing and opportunities being opened up for investment in a better public transport system - all of which collectively benefit society now and in the future. Sophie raises many important points and examples around the interconnectedness of the challenge we all face when it comes to building a more sustainable future and how we need to make those connections when building strategies, planning investment, timescales and resource; “By not taking a joined up approach, we’re completely missing opportunities - so, we need to be thinking about what we do, and how its going to affect both now and into the future, asking how does it make the biggest contribution to wellbeing.” The Future Generation Goals have brought people together, its changed the conversation both for the public sector and the private sector, Sophie tells us how industries operating in Wales are coming to them to ask how they can be part of delivering against the wellbeing goals. This has had a positive impact on how business is planned and operates, from point of tender through to selection and delivery, providing more security and stability. When it comes to communities it’s a bit more of a mixed bag, with views being divided (as you’d expect) depending on the impact to where people live. However, it is bringing politicians, businesses and communities together, awareness is growing, and the opportunity to educate is also increasing as people look to understand why decisions and actions are happening. The heart of this conversation and the actions taking place in Wales clearly evidence that we are all responsible for our future, and as Sophie points out, “as much as we criticise our politicians, actually we as citizens are as much to blame because we often demand that they do short term things.” Brave leadership, shared communication and participation is an absolute must. We recommend everyone listens to this episode, it is a wonderful example of rising to the challenge of making meaningful yet challenging commitments and leading the way. By the end of it, we had our bags packed ready to move to Wales (well I did, Gemma is considering Costa Rica ;)).   For more information about The Future Generations ‘Acting today for a Better Tomorrow’ - see here: https://www.futuregenerations.wales/ And to stay connected to the great work Sophie is championing - her LinkedIn profile is here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophie-howe-57a62186/ ____________________________________________________________________________ You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.