

Carry the Two
IMSI
Carry the Two pulls back the curtain to reveal the mathematical and statistical gears that turn the world. We’re the show for people who enjoy discovering hidden elements that impact our lives in the most unexpected ways, and math is certainly one of those!
We are a curiosity-driven podcast that looks to find unique perspectives from the fields of mathematics and statistics.
We use stories to convey how mathematical research drives the world around us, with each episode tackling a different topic. This can be anything from modeling how bees in a swarm make group decisions to how we can use textual analysis to reveal surprising changes in policy documents.
You can also find Carry the Two on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, and Spotify.
Carry the Two is hosted by Sadie Witkowski and Ian Martin. Audio production by Tyler Damme. Music is from Blue Dot Sessions.
We are a curiosity-driven podcast that looks to find unique perspectives from the fields of mathematics and statistics.
We use stories to convey how mathematical research drives the world around us, with each episode tackling a different topic. This can be anything from modeling how bees in a swarm make group decisions to how we can use textual analysis to reveal surprising changes in policy documents.
You can also find Carry the Two on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, and Spotify.
Carry the Two is hosted by Sadie Witkowski and Ian Martin. Audio production by Tyler Damme. Music is from Blue Dot Sessions.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 14, 2023 • 37min
Heather Zheng on Privacy and AI
What if you had a way to upload as many selfies as you wanted to instagram or facebook, and still protect yourself from facial recognition software? Turns out, that’s not a pipe dream! In fact, the SAND Lab (Security, Algorithms,Networking and Data) at the University of Chicago is developing all sorts of tools and techniques to help us protect our digital privacy.
Joining us in this episode, Heather Zheng, PhD from the SAND lab, walks us through both examples of current data privacy concerns, as well as new potential threats to privacy. But don’t worry, for each concern, Heather is able to provide a solution to keep your data private.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
(Guy) Fawkes image/photo masking: http://sandlab.cs.uchicago.edu/fawkes/
Research about tracking you through your home with wi-fi: http://sandlab.cs.uchicago.edu/adversarialwifi/
Research on recovering your key strokes: https://sandlab.cs.uchicago.edu/keystroke/
Hidden Markov models explained: https://brilliant.org/wiki/hidden-markov-models/
Allyson’s episode about GPT-3: [LINK]
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (mastodon) https://sciencemastodon.com/@IMSI, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Heather Zheng: https://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~htzheng/
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.
The Institute for Mathematical and Statistical Innovation (IMSI) is funded by NSF grant DMS-1929348.

Jan 31, 2023 • 41min
Allyson Ettinger on GPT-3
How can a teacher know if a student actually wrote their book report, or if a computer did it? Are AI writers coming for journalists’ jobs? What does it mean when a language processing model can write its own computer code upon request? These are all questions currently sparked by GPT-3, a free online natural language processing artificial intelligence by Open AI.
This isn’t your dimestore chatbot. GPT-3 takes advantage of a whole new method of artificial intelligence research, called neural nets, to create plays, write code, and even roleplay as a historical figure. But what are the limitations to this kind of AI? In this episode of Carry the Two, University of Chicago professor Allyson Ettinger walks us through how GPT-3 manages to sound so human and where and how it fails in interesting ways.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
Use natural language processing to talk with a TV character or historical figure: https://beta.character.ai/
Chat bot using GPT-3.5: https://chat.openai.com/chat
Find out how you can chat with GPT-3: https://lifearchitect.ai/how-do-i-talk-to-gpt/
When GPT-3 accidentally lies: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/18/1063487/meta-large-language-model-ai-only-survived-three-days-gpt-3-science/
Microsoft’s chatbot that went racist: https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/24/11297050/tay-microsoft-chatbot-racist
Is GPT-3 a replacement or tool for journalists: https://contently.net/2022/12/15/trends/chatgpt/
Undark’s interview with GPT-3 on truth & journalism: https://undark.org/2023/01/07/interview-a-conversation-on-truth-and-fiction-with-chatgpt/
Previous Carry the Two episode on statistical language learning with Ben Reuveni: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ben-reuveni-on-statistical-learning/id1629115184?i=1000577827727
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (mastodon) https://sciencemastodon.com/@IMSI, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Allyson Ettinger: https://linguistics.uchicago.edu/people/allyson-ettinger, @AllysonEttinger
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.
Sound effects from pixabay.
The Institute for Mathematical and Statistical Innovation (IMSI) is funded by NSF grant DMS-1929348.

Jan 17, 2023 • 31min
Tandy Warnow on Evolutionary Trees
Darwin first proposed evolution as a way that species change and diverge to fill niches in their environment. This observation led to the first, rudimentary species trees, showing ancestors and descendants across genetic lineages.
But this work is far from settled. As we continue to collect more and richer data sets from species, whether they be plants, bacteria, or mammals like ourselves, researchers need new and better methods for building phylogenetic trees. That’s where Tandy Warnow, from the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, comes in.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
Tandy’s talk for IMSI’s workshop, Eliciting Structure in Genomics Data: https://www.imsi.institute/videos/theory-and-practice-for-large-scale-phylogeny-estimation/
History of the ‘Tree of Life’: https://www.nature.com/articles/540038a
Multispecies coalescent process: https://academic.oup.com/book/26340/chapter-abstract/194642189?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Gene duplication: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_by_gene_duplication
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (mastodon) https://sciencemastodon.com/@IMSI, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Tandy Warnow: https://tandy.cs.illinois.edu/
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.
The Institute for Mathematical and Statistical Innovation (IMSI) is funded by NSF grant DMS-1929348.

Jan 3, 2023 • 32min
Mike Menzel on NASA's JWST Launch
Imagine trying to unfold 5 layered, thin metallic sheets, each the size of a tennis court without tearing or snagging the material. Now imagine doing it in the vacuum of space, at a distance much farther than the moon, and that a multimillion dollar project relies on your success. That provides a bit of perspective for the massive undertaking that was the James Webb Space Telescope (or JWST).
In this episode of Carry the Two, we hear from NASA lead systems engineer, Mike Menzel, all about designing and testing the solar shield for JWST.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
JWST’s orbit: https://jwst.nasa.gov/content/about/orbit.html
General physics of the JWST: https://www.wired.com/story/the-physics-of-the-james-webb-space-telescope/
Video of JWST unfolding (referenced in the episode): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg-YI0T-4Mk
Coordinating the 18 mirrors: https://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/starsgalaxies/wavefront.html
What is a Lagrange point: https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/resources/754/what-is-a-lagrange-point/
Why hexagons are a great shape (for telescope mirrors & other uses): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thOifuHs6eY
Controversy surrounding the name of JWST: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/19/us/james-webb-telescope-gay-rights.html
JWST’s images of Neptune: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2022/new-webb-image-captures-clearest-view-of-neptune-s-rings-in-decades
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (mastodon) https://sciencemastodon.com/@IMSI, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Mike Menzel: https://webb.nasa.gov/content/meetTheTeam/people/menzel.html
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions & original score for Star Trek by Alexander Courage.
Sound effect by beetpro at pixabay.
The Institute for Mathematical and Statistical Innovation (IMSI) is funded by NSF grant DMS-1929348.

Dec 20, 2022 • 2min
Winter Hiatus
We're taking a short break to prepare for the new year and season 2. So stay tuned!
Find our transcript here: LINK
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (instagram) IMSI.institute
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.
The Institute for Mathematical and Statistical Innovation (IMSI) is funded by NSF grant DMS-1929348.

Dec 6, 2022 • 14min
Tiffany Christian on City-Friendly Animal Species
Our last episode featuring Statistician-in-Residence Tiffany Christian (at least for now), dives into sampling methods. How can we track animal populations, especially those who share our urban environment with us? Ecologists and statisticians have found methods to track everything from coyotes to Canadian geese and can see how their populations are changing over time.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
Video explaining the statistics of capture mark recapture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=240806aPHVg
Collection of examples using capture mark recapture: https://www.usgs.gov/centers/eesc/science/capture-mark-recapture-science?qt-science_center_objects=0
Urban coyote research: https://urbancoyoteresearch.com/coyote-info/basics-studying-coyotes
Sampling methodology: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/statistics-probability/designing-studies/sampling-methods-stats/a/sampling-methods-review
Smithsonian story about pack rat research: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/archaeological-treasures-hidden-rat-nests-180973544/
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Tiffany Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiffany-christian-733137b5/
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.
The Institute for Mathematical and Statistical Innovation (IMSI) is funded by NSF grant DMS-1929348.

Nov 22, 2022 • 15min
Tiffany Christian on Wetland Monitoring
Wetlands like the marshes located just outside the city of New Orleans, LA are often overlooked, but these ecosystems provide many vital services. Wetlands, like all ecosystems, are under threat by climate change and particularly the increased tropical storms and hurricanes that tear across our coasts. So how can we monitor vast areas of wetlands to check their health, year after year? Statistician-in-Residence Tiffany Christian explains how researchers can remotely monitor wetland health and spot disruption of annual growth cycles.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
Review of storm effects on wetlands: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872203215000657#:~:text=Impacts%20of%20tropical%20storms%20on%20wetland%20landscape%20changes,change%20wetland%20morphology%20and%20elevation
Using remote sensing to detect changes in wetlands growing season: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304380015002197
Overview of wetland health in Louisana and impact of MRGO: https://mississippiriverdelta.org/coalition-unveils-findings-on-mrgo-ecosystem-recovery-15-years-after-hurricane-katrina/ and the associated white paper https://mrgomustgo.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/MRGO-White-Paper-10-01-2020.pdf
Importance of wetlands: https://www.epa.gov/wetlands/why-are-wetlands-important#:~:text=Wetlands%20and%20People,our%20use%20at%20no%20cost.
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Tiffany Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiffany-christian-733137b5/
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.
The Institute for Mathematical and Statistical Innovation (IMSI) is funded by NSF grant DMS-1929348.

Nov 8, 2022 • 23min
Moon Duchin on Voting & Electoral Districts
If you live in the United States, have you already voted? If not, go vote!
The bedrock of American democracy is the idea of citizens voting for candidates to represent their interests. However, determining how to cluster voters into districts has always been a fraught topic, particularly when it comes to ensuring that minorities have representation. How can we create the most fair electoral districts? How can we use geometric topographical analysis to recognize gerrymandering strategies like “packing” and “cracking”? We brought in Tufts University mathematician and founder of the Metric Geometry and Gerrymandering Group Redistricting Lab Moon Duchin to help us discuss these pressing issues.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
Duchin’s collaboration about ranked choice voting: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3778021
Brief review of Duchin’s scientific paper: https://www.newamerica.org/political-reform/reports/evaluating-the-effects-of-ranked-choice-voting/the-future-is-proportional-improving-minority-representation-through-new-electoral-systems-gerdus-benade-ruth-buck-moon-duchin-dara-gold-and-thomas-weighill/
Quanta’s interview with Duchin: https://www.quantamagazine.org/moon-duchin-on-fair-voting-and-random-walks-20200407/
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Moon Duchin: https://math.tufts.edu/people/faculty/moon-duchin
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.
The Institute for Mathematical and Statistical Innovation (IMSI) is funded by NSF grant DMS-1929348.

Oct 25, 2022 • 16min
Tiffany Christian on Invasive Species
Typical invasive species that pop to mind tend to be large animals like the common carp in the Mississippi River, or species obviously detrimental to their non-native habitat like zebra mussels in the Great Lakes. But what about smaller species that are difficult to spot and that are located in remote areas of the country? It turns out, researchers can use statistical methods to help assess remote ecosystems that may be in danger. In the case of today’s topic, we take a look at the invasive wooly adelgid in the Appalachian mountains.
Remember, for the rest of this mini season, we have a recurring guest joining us! Meet Carry the Two’s Statistician-in-Residence, Tiffany Christian! She’s a PhD student in the Statistics department at Northwestern University and will be leading us through some fascinating research.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
Find the research we discuss in this episode here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378112713008219
Learn about the topics covered in IMSI’s fall program, Confronting Global Climate Change: https://www.imsi.institute/activities/confronting-global-climate-change/
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Tiffany Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiffany-christian-733137b5/
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.

Oct 11, 2022 • 12min
Tiffany Christian on the Heat Island Effect
Have you noticed how summer days seem so much hotter in the city center as compared to the burbs or out in the country? Part of this is due to the “heat island effect,” where heat absorbing materials like concrete and asphalt make areas that are less green feel much hotter. As it turns out, even in big cities, not all neighborhoods are equally affected… But why?
To help answer this question and for the rest of this mini season, we have a recurring guest joining us! Meet Carry the Two’s Statistician-in-Residence, Tiffany Christian! She’s a PhD student in the Statistics department at Northwestern University and will be leading us through some fascinating research.
Find our transcript here: LINK
Curious to learn more? Check out these additional links:
Find the research we discuss in this episode here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22799-5%5C
Learn about the topics covered in IMSI’s fall program, Confronting Global Climate Change: https://www.imsi.institute/activities/confronting-global-climate-change/
Follow more of IMSI’s work: www.IMSI.institute, (twitter) @IMSI_institute, (instagram) IMSI.institute
Follow Tiffany Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiffany-christian-733137b5/
This episode was audio engineered by Tyler Damme.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions.


