Deviate

“There is this arrogant assumption that the things we don’t know or understand must be bad, because if they were good, we would already know about them or understand them.” –Derek Sandhaus In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Derek discuss the culture and traditions of baijiu liquor in China (4:00); Derek’s introduction to China and baijiu, and how Sichuan, more than any other province, is known for making baijiu (15:00); the history of baijiu, its significance to Chinese culture, and the rules that surround its consumption at meals (22:00); how alcohol influenced Chinese culture and agriculture over the years, and how foreigners have interacted with baijiu (31:00); the challenge in introducing baijiu to the American market, how it has as many variations as different as vodka and tequila, and how to find and enjoy baijiu in the United States (36:30). Derek Sandhaus (@dsandhaus) is a writer, traveler, and author of several books on Chinese history and culture, including Baijiu: The Essential Guide to Chinese Spirits and Drunk in China. He is a cofounder of Ming River Sichuan Baijiu and currently serves as the brand’s communications director. He is also the editor of DrinkBaijiu.com.  Notable Links: Baijiu (Chinese liquor) William of Rubruck (missionary / explorer) Marco Polo (explorer) Chengdu (capital of Sichuan province in China) Zhou Enlai (first Premier of the People’s Republic of China) Chiang Kai-shek (Chinese politician) Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove (Chinese scholars) Eight Immortals of the Wine Cup (Chinese scholars) Jiahu (Neolithic settlement in China) Henry David Theroux (author) Ernest Hemingway (author) Taoism (philosophy) Richard Nixon (American president) Ming River (baijiu brand available in the U.S.) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“​So many hate-filled​ things—whether on social media​ or just people talking—are based on stereotypes that are not accurate​. Too many people ​simply ​don’t ​interact with people who are different from ​them.” —Joe Rodriguez In this episode of Deviate, childhood friends Rolf, Kaye, Tony, and Joe discuss the racially specific nicknames people gave each other in high school back in the 1980s (7:40); how exactly their racial and socioeconomic situations influenced the way they grew up as young people (14:30); why it’s important to respect specific aspects of other people’s lives, even if you can’t entirely relate to them, and how individual people don’t necessarily represent everyone in a given group (37:00); what it feels like to be judged by strangers on the basis of your race, especially when you come from a minority group (51:30); how their race and the location of their neighborhoods affected their extracurricular lives as teenagers, and how diversity exists even within individual racial groups (1:06:00); how dating and marrying across racial lines can give you a deepened perspective on racial difference ​(1​:18:00); and how the personal experience of racial diversity is so much richer, more nuanced, and intertwined with “social capital” than the way it’s discussed in the click-bait atmosphere of social media (1:30:00). Kaye Monk-Morgan is an Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Wichita State University. Tony Johnson works with troubled youth as an intervention specialist with the Wichita Public Schools. A former newspaper journalist, Joe Rodriguez works as the Director of Development at Wichita’s Holy Savior Catholic Church and Academy. Notable Links: Wichita North High School What it’s like to be a black police officer in America (Deviate episode) What it’s like to be a Latino police officer in America (Deviate episode) The power of small choices across decades (Deviate episode) On Political Correctness, by William Deresiewicz (essay) Wichita State Shockers men’s basketball (sports program) Nico Hernandez (Olympic boxer from Wichita) Mike George (20th century professional wrestler) Lawrence Welk (20th century TV bandleader) Code-switching (linguistic “language alternation”) Colin Kaepernick (American athlete and activist) Kansas Bureau of Investigation (criminal justice agency) Barry Sanders (former NFL running back from Wichita) James Jabara (Korean War jet ace from Wichita) Việt Kiều (Vietnamese diaspora term) Mullet (1980s haircut) Tiger Woods (American professional golfer) Grinnell (academically prestigious college in Iowa) Arapaho (Native American tribe) Art Deco (arts and architecture design style) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The more we try to seize happiness, the more it slips from our grasp. Happiness is a by-product, never an objective. It’s an unexpected windfall from a life lived well.” –Eric Weiner In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eric discuss why practicing (rather than just studying) philosophy is important (2:00); which philosophies make the most sense during pandemic, and Nietzsche’s notion of “Eternal Recurrence” (10:00); aging versus staying young, and the similarities between Greek and Buddhist philosophy (21:00); how travel underpins the philosophical journey, and how train travel promotes deep thinking (31:00); how walking enables thinking and reflection, and the value or art and music (42:00); and loving life while also coming to terms with death (53:00). Eric Weiner (@Eric_Weiner) is an award-winning journalist, bestselling author, and speaker. His books include The Geography of Bliss and The Geography of Genius, as well as the spiritual memoir Man Seeks God and, his latest title, The Socrates Express. Eric is a former foreign correspondent for NPR, and reporter for The New York Times. For more about Eric, check out https://ericweinerbooks.com/ Notable Links: Stoicism (school of philosophy) Friedrich Nietzsche (philosopher) Albert Camus (philosopher) Groundhog Day (film) Thích Nhất Hạnh (Buddhist monk) Epicurus (philosopher) Simone de Beauvoir (writer / philosopher) Falling Upward, by Richard Rohr (book) Henry David Thoreau (essayist / philosopher) Arthur Schopenhauer (philosopher) Adagio for Strings (string orchestra arrangement) Michel de Montaigne (philosopher) Eric Hoffer (philosopher) Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher) Bhagavad Gita (Hindu scripture) Socrates (philosopher) Plato (philosopher) This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“There are so many ways travel can change your life, in ways you could never imagine before you leave home.”  –Daniel Neely In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay, Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel (7:30) before he and Dan reflect on the international cast of characters they met at at the Sultan Hotel in Cairo, and how workaday activities can make the city more interesting than tourist attractions (36:30); the friendships you make in hostels and how they end up shaping your life (44:45); how smartphones may have changed the vibe of some hostels, and how interacting with strangers at hostels can change your life (60:00). A native of Arizona, Daniel Neely served as Peace Corps volunteer in Honduras in the early 2000s. He now works as a Senior Advisor in Emergency Preparedness at the Wellington (New Zealand) Region Emergency Management Office. He previously appeared on Deviate episode 42, “How to survive a natural disaster.”  Notable Links: Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel, by Rolf Potts (essay) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Flaubert in Egypt: A Sensibility on Tour (collection of letters) Il signor Bruschino (Rossini operatic farce) Kuchuk Hanem (19th century Egyptian belly dancer) Johnnie Wadie Red Tabel (Egyptian spirit) Herodotus (ancient Greek historian) Hello America (2000 Egyptian movie) Saqqara (ancient burial ground in Egypt) Pyramid of Djoser (archaeological site in the Saqqara necropolis) Giza Necropolis (Egyptian pyramid complex) Djellaba (Arab robe) Keffiyeh (traditional Arabian headdress) Hijab (Muslim veil) “Kicking & Screaming” might be the best movie ever (Deviate episode) Kushari (Egyptian street food) Dahab (backpacker town in the Egyptian Sinai) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“My ambition was not financial, but a creative ambition toward fulfillment and satisfaction — and to be a better human toward those whom I loved.” – Brian Koppelman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Brian discuss podcast fandom, and how listening to podcasts is intimate in a way other media is not (2:00); self-improvement and ambition versus fulfillment, and the cultural reach of what Brian has created (11:00); the influence of music, and how a single album or artwork affects you at certain ages or times of your life (22:00); and masculine emotions as they are expressed in music, and writing to music informs your creativity (41:00). Brian Koppleman (@briankoppelman) is a screenwriter and co-creator / showrunner of the television show Billions. His screenwriting credits include Rounders and Ocean’s Thirteen. He is also the host of The Moment podcast.  Notable Links: Grantland (sports and culture website) Bill Simmons (podcaster and sports writer) Wesley Morris on podcast fame (Deviate episode) Killing Yourself to Live, by Chuck Klosterman (book) This Is What They Want (Jimmy Connors documentary) “I Contain Multitudes” (2020 Bob Dylan song) The Four Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) Rolf Potts on Travel Tactics (Tim Ferriss podcast episode) Seth Godin (business executive) Scriptnotes (podcast) Ryan Lochte (Olympic swimmer) Neil Peart (musician) Ghost Rider: Travels on the Healing Road, by Neil Peart (book) Tracy Chapman (singer-songwriter) Exile in Guyville (Liz Phair album) Bright Lights, Big City, by Jay McInerney (novel) The Number of the Beast (Iron Maiden album) Judas Priest (music artist) Stryper (American Christian metal band) Spoon River Anthology, by Edger Lee Masters The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Realizing that you will die greatly clarifies your vision of life, and stimulates opportunities for making the vision real.”  –Ed Buryn In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ed discuss the impetus behind Ed’s first travels to Europe by van in the 1960s, and his early forays into self-printed and self-promoted books about the experience (3:00); how travel to Europe was different 50 years ago, and the joy and freedom that comes with not knowing what happens next (14:30); Ed’s philosophies and influences, including living in “the now” (21:00); how travel allows you to reinvent yourself, and how meeting people is the best gift of travel (36:00); and Ed’s ambitions for poetry and travel, and his advice to travelers in today’s world (44:30). Ed Buryn is an author and photographer who was one of the first to popularize the term “vagabonding” through the publication of his books Vagabonding In Europe and North America and Vagabonding in America. For more about Ed, check out https://edburyn.com. Notable Links: Kevin Kelly (writer, editor, and publisher) Tony Wheeler (founder of Lonely Planet travel guides) Bill Dalton (founder of Moon travel guides) Charles Plymell on the Beat Generation (Deviate episode) The Drifters, by James Michener (book) Zorba the Greek, by Nikos Kazantzakis (book) Henry Miller (author) CouchSurfing ((homestay and social networking service) Richard Halliburton (traveler and author) Tarot (playing cards used for divination) Nevada City (community in northern California) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks has employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I met people who would say, ‘I wish I had more time to travel like you do.’ They had more money than time, and I had more time than money. In terms of traveling it’s much better to have more time than more money. …If you have a chance to travel, just do it. You won’t regret it.” – Kevin Kelly Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a polymath in the truest sense of the word. Aside from being a co-founder of Wired magazine, he is also co-founder of the Rosetta Project, which is aiming to build an archive of all documented human languages, and he serves on the board of the Long Now Foundation. He is a photographer, writer, and futurist (he was “futurist adviser” on the 2002 Steven Spielberg movie, Minority Report), with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the inspiration for his Asia travel in the 1970s (3:00); getting around and dealing with language barriers (15:00); the people he encountered while traveling in Asia, and the life-expanding nature of his journey (32:00); what he packed (47:00); modernity and technology in Asia, and managing his photography during travel (1:07:00); and self-actualization, discovering oneself through travel, and what the future holds in Asia. For more on Kevin, check out http://kk.org/ Notable Links: Asia Grace, by Kevin Kelly (photography book) “Shoulda Been Dead” (This American Life episode on Kevin’s Jerusalem conversion experience) Out of Control, by Kevin Kelly (book) Kevin Kelly’s interview with Tim Ferriss (podcast episode) “1000 True Fans” by Kevin Kelly (essay) Aerogram (pre-stamped airmail envelope) Poste restante (postal pick-up service for travelers) Maureen Wheeler (publisher) Tony Wheeler (publisher) Rick Steves (travel writer and publisher) Hilary Bradt (guidebook publisher) Bill Dalton (guidebook publisher) Lonely Planet (travel guidebook) Moon Guide (travel guidebook) Rough Guides (travel guidebook) National Geographic (magazine) Video Night in Kathmandu, by Pico Iyer (book) Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (book) Hippie Trail (travel route) “Remembering the Hippie Trail” by Rolf Potts (essay) Recomendo (weekly recommendation newsletter) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The opening line of your work should hold within it the germ of your entire idea. Attention spans are growing ever shorter. Grab your reader while you can.” – Bettina Gilois Bettina Gilois (1961-2020) was an award-winning screenwriter and author who worked in Hollywood for more than thirty years. Her screen credits included McFarland, USA and Glory Road. In this rebroadcast episode of Deviate (which originally aired in July of 2019), Bettina and Rolf discuss writing about real people (4:00); Bettina’s career path and the importance of perseverance (24:00); the importance of simplicity in storytelling (41:00); why certain stories are worth telling (56:00); and the craft of writing (1:15:00). Notable Links: Bettina’s Chapman University page (includes links to craft-advice essays) Thomas Kinkaid (painter) Billion Dollar Painter, by Bettina Gilois (book) Andy Warhol (artist) Talking Heads (band) Ari Emanuel (talent agent) Twister (film) Robert Durst (real estate heir) Rick Hall (record producer) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In America aging is often seen as an insult rather than an inevitable human process. We don’t celebrate getting older; we ‘fight’ age by pretending to be young.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his parents, Alice and George Potts, talk about how surviving the COVID-19 pandemic has changed their relationship, and how it gave them a pretext to go through a “death checklist” together (3:00); how one’s grandparents and parents live on in one’s memories and one’s conversations, the life-values they passed on, and what it felt like when those loved ones declined and died (14:00); how, over the years, elderly people and philosophers have come to terms with notions of decline and death (31:00); and personal insights about what it’s like to have grown older after having lived a long life (44:00). George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Science and Environmental Studies. He also helped facilitate the Outdoor Wildlife Learning Sites (OWLS) program for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian. Notable Links: What to Do When a Loved One Dies (AARP death checklist) How we die in America (Deviate episode) The therapeutic uses of reading scripture (Deviate episode) On losing one’s parents to COVID-19 (Deviate episode) 1985 World Series (baseball championship) Joe Louis (20th century boxing champion) John Prine (singer-songwriter) Alzheimer’s disease (chronic neurodegenerative disease) You Are My Sunshine (folk song) Will You Miss Me When I’m Gone (folk song) Ecclesiastes (book in the Old Testament of the Bible) Epistle of James (book in the New Testament of the Bible) Crowfoot (19th century Siksika First Nation chief) Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) Epicurus (ancient Greek philosopher) Varanasi (Hindu holy city in India) Lamentations 3:22-23 (Old Testament Bible verse) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“One of the miracles of travel writing is to constantly be reminded of how much we don’t know.” – Doug Bock Clark In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Doug discuss how travel writing is defined, and what purposes it serves in the twenty-first century (3:30), the boundaries of travel writing, the nuanced task of trying to humanize people in a travel story, and the future of the form (19:00). Then, Rolf reads his essay, “Why Travel Writing Matters” from the Fall 2017 issue of The Chattahoochee Review (29:00). Doug Bock Clark (@DougBockClark) is a GQ correspondent and a contributor for the website of The New Yorker. His first book, The Last Whalers, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019. He also produced the feature documentary Assassins, which premiered at Sundance in January 2020 and was inspired by one of his investigations. Notable Links: The Missionary and the Uncontacted Tribe, by Doug Bock Clark (article) Down Myanmar’s Sacred Irrawaddy River, by Doug Bock Clark (article) Behind the Beautiful Forevers, by Katherine Boo (book) Peter Hessler (writer) Storming “The Beach”, by Rolf Potts (essay) Making sense of The Beach, 20 years later (podcast episode) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) William of Rubruck (explorer) Siberut (island in Indonesia) Andaman Islands (archipelago in the Bay of Bengal) Zhang Qian (2nd century BC Chinese envoy) The Histories, by Herodotus (ancient travel narrative) Orhan Pamuk (Turkish author) Why Travel Writing Matters, by Rolf Potts (essay) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Santa Fe Writing Workshop, the leading experiential photographic workshop and writers lab in the US. Offering world-renowned professional photographers and Pulitzer Prize winning writers both in the U.S. and abroad, its reputation has been built upon a foundation of creativity and community for individuals of all levels. Prioritizing inspiration and openness to new ideas as much as it does craft, the Santa Fe Writing Workshop establishes itself as an enclave of creativity and education. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.