Discourse in Magic

This with Jonah connects with Bao Hoang to discuss how he’s grown as an online magician and his success in creating and selling unique collectible card sets. For a long time Bao still performed for corporate gigs and kids shows but ever since the pandemic he’s realized that the way he shares his magic is a lot more scalable as an online video, capable of reaching magnitudes more people than any live show would be able to do.  Creating The Content He Wish He’d Had Bao learned magic through online sources, and while he also has had wonderful connections made through local clubs in Montreal, he wanted to find a way to give back and create the kind of content he wished he had had when he was starting out. Even though he’s teaching basic entry level things, it was important to him that he was creating very high quality content and teaching it properly.  Bao breaks down with Jonah how he picks what he teaches, and his thoughts on teaching magic in a public forum like TikTok or YouTube. He also offers up some of his own advice for people getting started both as a magician and as an online content creator. And he shares the differences he’s found between creating content for YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok and how he’s learned to utilize each of those platforms strengths. Pick A Card Along with his online content, Bao is also responsible for the hugely successful Instant Noodle and Boba collectable playing cards. Bao shares with Jonah how these playing cards came to be and what it’s been like to market and develop these cards as well as discover which audiences he’s actually making them for.  Giving Value No matter if you are making content for YouTube or kickstarting a new project you have to always be thinking about your audience and what they want, because that’s the reason you’re doing content. You still want to enjoy what you’re creating but you have always have your audience in mind if you want to see your content grow. If you give value to people they’ll reciprocate that in the future. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Jason Mayer, Street Magician Dude. He’s been grinding since the beginning and has massive followings on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? Loves how it’s getting more attention in the mainstream media. It’s not as tacky and contributing to a modern image of real magicians.  What does Bao not like? While he has comments about Facebook magic, at the same time, he understands the grind. So while he’s not a big fan he totally understands the work that’s being put in. Take home point Give value to people. Plugs You can find Bao on every major social media platform by searching up the name Bao Magic. And if you’d like to look up his playing cards you should search for BaoBao Restaurant Playing Cards and you’ll find lots of retailers who still have cards in stock.

This week Jonah offers up his suggestions for the best software you can use to maximize your team’s potential.  If you have a growing magic business then you probably have an expanding team. And with that, you have to manage all of the documents and data and opinions and files and feelings of your team members. And to be able to communicate with your team is not an easy task. And certainly it’s not a task that you can just do over email. In this episode Jonah is going to walk you through five pieces of software that are going to make a huge difference. #1: Slack You might be asking yourself, aren’t there enough ways to message people? But what slack allows is for multiple people on your team who have to communicate with each other but when you don’t need to be the middleman as well.  Email is so old and ancient, you send a bulleted list of five topics and then they reply with a bulleted list of five topics. In slack, you can send different ideas, you can go back and forth, and it’s really, really great for conversations. So if you’ve got more than one team member or want to manage your conversations in a better place than your email inbox, Slack is a great first place to start.  #2: Zoom At this point in time, you already have Zoom and many of you are paying for Zoom. But here’s the twist. Here’s the thing you should do on zoom. It’s going to cost a little bit more money, but make a huge difference. And that is Cloud Recording.  Every time you get on a zoom call, you have the opportunity to set it to record. Why is that helpful? Well, it’s already going to record all of your shows, which is amazing, but the other reason why it’s helpful is if you meet with your team and you share with them advice and details, all of that is recorded and documented so that you and them can visit it and revisit it later.  You’ve got to be very meticulous about each phase of the project and not just write down what you remember or anything like that. So tool number two is not only Zoom, but Zoom Cloud Recording. So you can document the actual training and education and working with your team and have it with you. That begs an immediate question, which is, does that mean that after every recording I have to go to zoom and download the recording and send it off? And the answer is no. You want people on your team to be able to have access to that recording. How do they have access? Do you give them a password? Well, you could, but there’s an incredible third piece of software that Jonah wants to recommend #3: Lastpass What LastPass is great for is you can add multiple people and add folders, which means you have a folder with a bunch of different passwords that you can share with other people on your team. And the way it works is they cannot see the password, but they can just use it. So that means other people on your team can use your Zoom password to login and download the recordings of the videos. You do not have to go into it for them and send it to them and slow down the back and forth. Instead they have access to your Zoom account and access to plenty of other things that they need access to. #4: Loom There’s a bunch of different other options other than Loom, but this one is the most popular. What loom is, is a very, very quick and speedy way to either record a video of your face or record a screen recording of your screen. Why is that important? Well, this is hands down the easiest way to communicate with your team, the way that you’re feeling and thinking your wants and your needs. When having a meeting, maybe you’ve got staff in different places around the world, and you may not be able to meet at the same time, but exchanging a video where you’re able to share your screen, talk freely, talk about how you feel and they’re able to watch through it, having that kind of ability to send a video and not have to write out every last detail of how you’re feeling, but instead send a video either of your screen or of yourself describing your opinion makes a huge, huge impact in your ability to communicate with your team. And that’s what all this stuff is about. It’s about streamlining communication, about making your community as easy and as smooth as possible. Loom is kind of your meeting replacement. You don’t have to have a meeting. If you can send a little recording with your notes or ideas or feedback or whatever the case may be. #5 Asana Asana is a task managing software. You can use it for a ton of things like setting deadlines or making projects, but the way that Jonah uses it is making projects with. You have tasks and using Loom you’re able to assign tasks to people, able to set due dates, give descriptions, and if you want to go back and see your projects in the past, you don’t have to scroll through hundreds of emails and back and forth. It’s all in one place, exactly where it should be.  If you build Asana, or any of these task trackers into your business, then it’s not an extra step to be organized. Being organized is the way you run your business. When you ask one of the people on your team to do something, you ask them to do it by assigning it as a task in Asana. Sign Up For The Mastermind Those are five pieces of software that will make a huge difference for you if you are working with a team. If you would like more help with this than chat with Jonah on Facebook. Send him a message with the word “TEAM” if you want some help working with your team and see if we can help. There’s about a dozen people in the mastermind right now and most of them are working with other team members and utilizing some of the software. So we’d love to have you aboard if you want some help with. To learn more about the workshops and mastermind programs that Jonah offers visit discourseinmagic.com/upgrade-academy

Ben Train pops in to offer some important tips to help you overcome any fear you may have surrounding performing the magic tricks that you’ve been practicing on. For those of you who don’t know Ben, he is Jonah’s housemate, his business partner, and the better looking half of their duo act (his words). And over the next few months, Ben is going to be doing a series of short podcasts dedicated to helping you become better and more confident performers. Ben has been doing magic for about 25 years and for the first 10 or so years of that, he loved magic, practiced magic, but refused to show people tricks. It didn’t matter who was asking, whether it was friends or family, or even complete strangers. When they asked to see a trick, Ben would freeze up, his mind would go blank and he would have to come up with an excuse for why he didn’t want to share something. If that sounds like a problem that you’re dealing with, Ben can empathize. Showing magic to people when you don’t know who you’re going to be showing it to, when you don’t know what to say, and when you don’t know if they’re going to like it, that is scary. So, Ben has some tips that’ll help you get out there, to get over that hump, and start showing magic. For the purpose of this episode we’re going to assume that you already know some tricks and you’ve practiced them so that they’re ready to be shown to people. If you’re still practicing, don’t worry, you’ve got plenty of time, but assuming you have some tricks ready to go, what do you do so that you can start showing them to people? Well, Ben thinks it starts by asking yourself three very important questions. Who do you want to perform for? Where do you want to perform? And what is it that you will be performing now?  Who Do You Want To Perform For? If you’re not a professional magician, you don’t have to be ready to perform in every situation. You don’t have to be an expert at kid magic, stand up magic, stage magic, close-up magic, and adult magic. You can pick which audience you want to perform for. Obviously, performing for drunk adults is different from performing for children. So if you feel like you’re more comfortable performing for kids, that’s who you’re going to target with your performances. If you want to perform for your friends in school or buddies at work, you know who you’re planning on performing for.  Where Do You Want To Perform? You don’t have to be an expert at everything. You can pick and say, “I want to do close-up magic for people when I go out for drinks”. Or you can say, “on the bus on the way to school, I want to be able to show someone a trick”. Knowing who you’re planning on performing for and where you’re planning on performing gives you the tools you need to pick the right trick to do. And this is very important. We’re not trying to figure out how to put together an entire act that we can perform all over the world. Right now, we’re just trying to work up the courage. We need to start performing for people in our lives.  What Will You Perform? You don’t have to come up with an entire set list of material. You just have to pick one trick that you’re going to practice. One trick that you’re going to do for a specific audience and in a specific setting. And if you do that, suddenly you’ll notice that you have a lot more confidence because you feel more prepared. Know thy enemy, know the battlefield and you are prepared to bring the tools you need to conquer those enemies or battlefields. Think about it like a UFC fighter. A UFC fighter trained specifically for the match ahead of him, a grappler you train for differently than you’re going to train for a striker, for instance. So if you know you’re going to be doing that for a specific group, and you’re going to be doing it in a specific place, and you know the trick you’re going to do, you can prepare yourself in advance both mentally and physically to do that.  Now we’re not talking about becoming an expert in performing in every situation. That comes later. Right now, you’re going to focus on one group for one type of setting and one specific trick. And once you perform that a few times for people, you will be confident because you’ll know the trick works, the audience likes it, and it works in that type of setting. And now you will have one piece that is ready to go in your repertoire and you can start working on the next one. And before you know it, you’ll be ready to rock and roll and do magic whenever you want to.  Reach Out For More Help Reach out if you have more questions by sending an email to info@discourseinmagic.com. We’re going to be doing a series of these helpful tips. And if you want to follow more, if you want to get more tips, and if you want to be involved in some of the fun workshops we’re planning on doing visit discourseinmagic.com/updates and join the Discourse In Magic Facebook group, because we’ve got a lot of fun stuff planned.

This workshop covers strategies to double magic business earnings, including lead generation, confident pricing, packaging, marketing, client perception, automation, and work-life balance. Jonah emphasizes the importance of systems, delegation, and scaling up to avoid burnout and achieve success.

This week Jonah connects with David Regal to discuss writing magic for television and the innovative ways that David approaches magic. David’s trick creation is incredible. And not only is his sleight of hand amazing but so is his writing. Among his multiple writing credits, David was also the head writer for The Carbonaro Effect. Interpreting Magic As much as David loves performing he especially loves the process. In theatre and film the concept of a screenwriter is much more common but not so in the world of magic but that’s where David talks a lot about with Jonah in his work helping to write for and develop magic.  David’s books, Approaching Magic and Interpreting Magic, are all about challenging the status quo in the magic world and encouraging the joy and innovation that can come when magicians embrace the interpretive nature of magic as an artform. Writing Magic For Television Among his many writing credits, David is also the head writer for The Carbonaro Effect. Starring Michael Carbonaro, the show sets up moments in the real world where the subject in the scene is unaware that magic is currently being performed around them. The titular effect is the belief that something is shattering their world view of what is possible. David opens up about what it was like writing for The Carbonaro Effect and how he had to explain to the show producers that what they were doing was not a magic show at all but was utilizing magic to create a very strange day for the “mark” on the show.   Developing Judgement Judgement is a rare thing and the reason, David believes, that a lot of performers are as good as they are is because they have exceptionally good judgement as to what makes a good effect. The really good performers either have this judgement or have a group of people around them who bring that judgement to the table with them. Without good judgement you won’t have good magic.  Wrap-Up Endless Chain Armando Lucero is such a strong performer and a very soulful guy. Just speak to him.  And Rocco Silano is a real thinker in magic. He does a dazzling stand up act and his persona is very… debonair. He’s a very thoughtful, almost philosophical, magician. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? David love’s Penn & Teller’s [Fool Us]. Magic is held back when the audience doesn’t even understand what good magic is and making the American audience understand that this is an interpretive art will go hand in hand with more artists interpreting it. David does not like the other side of interpretation though when magicians seek out the full proof perfect effect. What screws up interpretation is there are effects that if you just do them well are great tricks but if you find the greatest tricks that work every time then you’ll end up doing the exact same tricks as the other magician who has those same tricks.  Take home point “Make sure that when you’ve done all the other work… that you’re putting in an idea of your own into it. If it’s the tiniest thing, it can be a one word thing, but that’s really what it’s all about.  You’ll enjoy performing much more and the audience will always sense… your connection to the material”  Plugs You can follow up with David by visiting David Regal’s website at davidregal.com

Jonah welcomes you to the new year and new plans for Discourse in Magic in 2022. Whether you are using your magic to perform full-time, are just wanting to perform for friends, or get better at magic, the thing that’s in common between anybody listening to this podcast is we are trying to get better, trying to perform better, and trying to make better magic, trying to make more money, and trying to run a better business. So this year we wanted to update you on some of the projects that are coming your way.  Less Interviews, More Content Jonah has interviewed a LOT of people on Discourse in Magic and only has a handful of remaining people that he really, really needs to interview. But that doesn’t mean the podcast is going anywhere just yet and we do have some important people that we’re excited to share. This means you should expect less interviews than last year, probably about two a month. But that is because we are making room for growth and there’s going to be two main focuses. Growing Your Business The first is going to be about business. As you know, Jonah runs two different coaching programs. One for people who are getting their magic businesses started by trying to get to earning $3,000 to $5,000 a month. And another one for people who are trying to explode and scale their magic business, like six figures and beyond. And over the course of the past couple years, Jonah has learned a lot and he wants you to learn a ton too. So, every month you are going to get some education that comes right from the coaching programs and the ways that Jonah is helping magicians right now to make money.  And if you’re thinking that you’re not really into doing magic for the money and you just want to perform more, do more magic, and perform better then the good news is that we are so pumped to share with you that we are going to be doing that thanks to new content from Ben Train. Growing Your Magic Ben Train is going to also share with you a once a month education series for you on growing your magic performance. These clips will be coming from live training sessions that we are going to be doing, where you can ask questions and actually work on different parts of your magic. Such as getting prepared for shows, getting prepared to perform for good audiences, scripting your magic, making your magic better, working on the methods, and so on.  If that sounds exciting for you, then hit updates on this very site and sign up for the newsletter, because that is where you’re going to be invited to be a part of all of this fun and will be invited to be a part of these podcast episodes that are recorded and released later.  Stay Tuned For A Sample To whet your appetite for the new style of the podcast, Jonah also offers up two micro lessons in this episode to help you build on your magic business and magic performance. How do you price your shows? And what is the most important thing to focus on during your rehearsals? Make sure you listen to the end of this episode to hear Jonah’s tips for you. We are excited to have you all here, and happy 2022. And we hope you look forward to the next series of episodes this month and next which will help you with your magic business and to help you get performance ready and perform for more people more often.

This week Jonah has a very short message for you going into the final week of the holiday season. Three simple things that can’t go unsaid before the year is out. Thing 1: This Is Our 300th Episode! This is our three-hundredth episode. Many of you have been listening since the beginning of the podcast. Maybe you started listening a week ago, or a year ago, or five years ago when this started, but this is the 300th episode. And all Jonah wants to say is, “Thank you”.  Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for tuning in. Thanks for being a part of this journey. It’s changed. It’s been strange. Jonah used to do it with his business partner, Tyler, and together they interviewed amazing magicians. He’s interviewed other incredible magicians since and started a coaching program. You’ve listened through the launch of the Toronto Magic Company and through the transition to virtual and so much more. Thanks for being here for 300 episodes. Thing 2: What’s Coming Up in 2022 Next year, Jonah is really leaning into making some awesome content for magicians. He will have regular content to help you grow your business and regular events that you can attend to help you make your magic better. Things to help you with your effect selection, with your scripting, with your performance, with your workshopping of your tricks and making them better. We have content scheduled for the entire year that you can be a part of.  This podcast is going to look a little bit different coming into 2022 with more fun things for you to be a part of. And if you know what’s good for you, sign up for the email list! That’s how you can actually be a part of these workshops and a part of these lectures and get some of the free stuff that is coming your way.  Thing 3: Take A Break, You’ve Earned It This was maybe a big year for you virtually or maybe not. It may be a big year for returning to in-person and then Omicron and the holidays and 2022 and all of that coming by. So make sure to take a little break this holiday season. That might mean a couple days off or that may mean a week off to spend with your family. And from us, everybody here at Discourse in Magic and the Toronto Magic Company, we want to thank you for being a part of all of the fun, strange journeys that have been going on in 2021. We wish you a happy new year, a happy holidays, and we are excited to see you and work together on making your magic and maybe your business better in 2022.

This week Jonah connects with John Graham who has just released his new book, “Stage by Stage”, which is all about transitioning to stage magic. Jonah goes behind the scenes with John and asks him every question he has about stage magic. The Magic Shop Of Solitude John was fortunate enough to grow up in Pennsylvania where Mel’s Magic City, which is still open today, was his place of solitude. The owner had the shop almost as a hobby so John would spend many weekends there by himself learning all he could and meet anyone he could meet who wanted to talk about magic. Even as a teenager he knew he loved magic and he saw lots of people who loved magic but also had other jobs and couldn’t devote more time to developing their own magic.This seemed like a travesty to John that they would only have a few hours in the day to work with their magic. That’s when John decided to make magic his career so that he could work on magic all the time.    Transitioning To The Stage John had been doing close up magic his whole life until he was 25 when he decided to do his first stage show. And it was hard. He made some disastrous routines that performed terribly. But all those trials helped him get better as he learned from them.  One example he shares with Jonah is a Sands of the Desert routine. He thought he had a great idea to change up the effect where he would have more than loadable and while he was pouring water from one hand he’d be filling water up with the other… the only problem is this process took forever and the routine went on and on and on and on. John could see him losing the interest of the audience and even when the effect happens it wouldn’t matter because it took so long to get there. He learned from that experience that you have to trust your material and you have to work on it and be realistic as you’re working on it, so that when you’re doing it on stage you can trust what you know and you can trust what you’ve rehearsed and do it the way you’ve planned so you don’t doubt yourself in the moment. The Opening and The Closing John and Jonah also break down the process of finding a good opening and how to develop a memorable closing.  For opening, John recommends one of his favourite effects. The Nielsen Bottle Vanish. It’s quick, it’s easy, it doesn’t require special clothing, and if you happen to arrive at your venue or event space and the set up is not as you were expecting you can still open with this effect and calm your nerves with a really effective trick that will jump you right into your show. For closings, John suggests that you say something at the beginning of your show, almost as a question. Something for the audience to ponder. Then, later, do your closing effect and the audience claps and they take their seats and when you’re thanking them you recap your show a little bit and go back to that question you asked and then reveal an answer or an opinion about it. Now that becomes your closer. So your closer is not necessarily an effect. There might be an effect but there is a closing that happens after it.       Wrap-Up Endless Chain Asi Wind, even though he’s already been on the show. He’s got his new book out “Before We Begin” and always has something new to talk about. What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? John loves that more things are coming out for magicians where people are giving away their actual working routines and working acts because there is still so much work to be done. There’s a lot there if you’re ready to absorb it.  John does not like that there is a rush to judgement. It’s too easy to put a product down by people who have never really seen it or worked with it. Plugs John’s new book, “Stage by Stage”, is published by Vanishing Inc and is now available.  John’s website is JohnMagic.com and John’s instagram is @thejohngraham

This week Jonah reveals to you what the best tool you can use to help grow your magic business. And it’s something you already own…   The tool that Jonah is talking about is the video recording app on your smart phone.Videoing your performances is the best thing you can do for your magic. If you have video footage of your performance, you can edit it and clip it out. You can find great moments and make promo videos. You can share your videos with your clients and you can post them on social media. The Highlight Reel You can attract the right people to your brand by just sharing the highlights of what you do. Proof of what you do is what every single client is actually looking for to have the conviction that they need to hire you for their events. So if you’re having trouble getting clients to pay you what you want, what you deserve, or even hire you for the events that you know you’re great at, then having some incredible video footage of that event is phenomenally useful.  Watch Your Footage There’s another thing you can do with your recordings and this is the thing that makes your magic better and that is watching it back. The only thing that is as good at making your magic better than performing for live audiences is watching back on footage of your performances for a live audience. The person who knows what your magic needs the most is you. The person who knows what you did wrong, what you did right, and what you need to do better, is you. A lot of the time, we avoid doing the things we need to do. Just watch the video of your performance and look at it. Sometimes it hurts, especially if you’re early in this. It hurts to watch the performance, especially if it doesn’t go the way that you want it to, but watch it, take notes, and be your own director. Even if you’re entertaining at the highest level, if you are hiring coaches and magic consultants to help make your magic better, the last thing that you want is to show them a video of your performance and have them tell you what you already know but you did not implement because you didn’t watch back the footage and see. So across the board, whether for your business growth or for your actual entertainment, the number one tool that you should be using all the time is the video recording app on your phone. We hope you learned something from this episode. And if you’re busy this December, we hope this was a little tiny reminder for you to record some of your performances, especially if you don’t have a great promo video.

This week Jonah shares with you his top three picks for magic theory books that will make the biggest impact on your magic. The reason why this podcast even exists in the first place is because of magic theory books. This podcast is Jonah’s fight against the world of magic to help there be more resources about theory, about opinions, about ideas, and the way that things should and could be performed. Most importantly there are thoughts about how to structure a show, how to perform, how to say things, how to practice saying things, how to get a script from your idea to the paper and to the actual real world. There’s not that many resources to help us with all of those things. So these are Jonah’s top three favorite magic books about theory. The ones that he thinks would help make the biggest changes to your performance. Magic theory is all about figuring out how to perform and how to perform well. So in this episode, Jonah talks about his three top recommendations for magic theory books that are going to change the game for you and your magic Book One: Magic in Mind This first book is the broadest resource with the most options, the most authors, the most ideas, and it’s all free. This is the best resource on the planet. It is an e-book by Vanishing Ink called Magic in Mind. The author, Joshua Jay, has gathered and got permission from the most incredible magicians to take their top essays and their top ideas from their world famous books about magic theory and put it all together in one free e-book. Magic in Mind is an absolute buffet of magic theory. When you read it, it’s going to shake up what you think, because these are the most impactful essays. Don’t read the whole book like it’s a novel, read one essay at a time and try to internalize how a paragraph or how a chapter or how an essay really applies to your magic. If you start here and you don’t listen to anything else on the podcast, then this will be the beginning of an incredible magic theory rabbit hole that you’re going to love. Book Two: Designing Miracles This book is Jonah’s absolute favorite. When new magicians start learning magic, they want to start creating magic. And if you’ve ever seen somebody show you a trick, sometimes that trick doesn’t make any sense. There are rules to the world of magic and if you make something vanish and appear, when do you have to show it? And when should you not show it? If something is disappearing from one place and appearing to another, can those objects go close together or not? And Jonah can tell if a new mind to magic isn’t following these rules and it’s obvious that they haven’t read Designing Miracles yet. Designing Miracles by Darwin Ortiz is an absolutely incredible book and completely opposite to Magic in Mind. This is not a buffet. It’s almost a textbook about a very specific subject. This is the only magic theory book that is fully about structure. This is a book that is about the different rules of magic. If you like creating, making things, making tricks, or bringing ideas into the real world then this is a must read.  Book Three: The Magic Rainbow This may be the biggest magic theory book ever. And that is a Testament to how much brilliance is packed in it. This is Jonah’s favorite magic theory book of all time. The Magic Rainbow is an incredible book. It is well-researched and is filled with lessons about every style of magic and every situation. It’s about arranging routines, putting them in the right order in your show. It’s about performing, practicing, and scripting. It is about the pure love of the art of magic and the pure love of theory. Every question that comes to mind, it feels like the answer is in that book and it is huge because it’s packed full of brilliant knowledge.  Get In Touch If you go and check out one of these books and if one of these is new to you and you had never heard of them, send Jonah a message. He would love to know if you liked them and if you learned something. What would you recommend to him? Maybe there’s a favourite book that he’s never heard of that he should check out, he would love to know.  You can e-mail Jonah at info@discourseinmagic.com Links Magic in Mind – Joshua Jay https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/ebooks/magic-in-mind/ Designing Miracles – Darwin Ortiz https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-theory/designing-miracles/ The Magic Rainbow – Stephen Minch and Juan Tamariz https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-theory/tamariz-magic-rainbow/