Discourse in Magic

Mike Pisciotta joins Jonah this week to discuss transitioning from close-up to stage, originality, and expressing your you through magic. Mike is an established bar magician at the Magic Castle, having won Close-Up Magician of the Year twice and Parlour Magician of the Year.   While his interest in magic started at a young age, he didn’t begin practicing it until after witnessing Copperfield performing live; the dancing girls and bright lights convinced him that magic was more than just tricks for children. Desiring to know how Copperfield did what he did, Mike picked up a copy of Mark Wilson’s Complete Course in Magic and from that point forward he knew he was destined to become a magician.  Throughout his life, he strayed from his path to becoming a magician several times. At one point, when he felt at his lowest, he left behind a cushy life and moved to L.A. to learn and work among the magicians at the Magic Castle. Although not the easiest scene to break into, Mike’s passion eventually helped him land his dream job of being a Magic Castle bar magician, where he still works to this day.  Finding You If you’re struggling to find something to talk about on stage, you’re probably focusing on the wrong subjects. Mike explains that you need to find topics that you’re passionate about and bring you bliss. Those are the things people want to hear you talk about on stage; they don’t want to hear you reciting a script from an old magic book you found on your shelf.  Your ideas can come from anywhere. For example, Mike is a constant reader with an interest in philosophy, who has brought together the ideas of other people to build up his own take on the world. When he goes on stage, he is expressing his interests through the tricks, rather than just doing tricks for the sake of the tricks.  Confidence Through Comedy When Mike was starting out in L.A., he had a brief stint in comedy. Hopping from open mic to open mic, he experienced how brutal the comedy circuit was, but he gained the confidence to stand in front of a room and just speak. He knows that he doesn’t need to rely on his tricks to be interesting, which has elevated his performance. The best part of shows, Mike explains, are not the tricks but him. People book him for who he is, not because they’re looking for another magician.  From Close-Up to Stage There aren’t a lot of people hiring close-up performers for intimate sets which is why he developed stage material (alongside the fact he loves it). Mike notes that the biggest difference between the two formats is not only in the trick selection but how you are presenting the effects. Suddenly, you’re trying to give thirty to a hundred people the feeling of magic which means you have to make sure everyone can see and hear what you’re doing.  Wrap-Up Endless Chain  John Wilson  Modern Magic Mike likes that the art is coming back into magic and that stage shows are pushing magic forward. He, however, isn’t a fan of Instagram or YouTube magic that doesn’t work in the real world.   Take-Home Point  Follow your bliss.  Plugs Mike’s Website  Mike’s Instagram  Mike’s Twitter Want to join in on the discourse? Join the Discourse in Magic Facebook page

Tyler Erickson joins Jonah this week to talk about working with a mentor, finding the positive, and what to consider when scripting. Alongside being an extremely skilled sleight of hand artist, Tyler is a magic coach who works to improve the approach magician’s take to assessing their own magic. Tyler’s interest in magic started while he was watching Saturday morning cartoons and eating cereal with his friend as deep inside that cereal box was a trick based on the grandma’s necklace principle. Unimpressed with the trick, Tyler resumed watching TV, forgetting about the trick until that following Monday; his friend had gathered a crowd performing the trick, and it was then Tyler realized he wanted that type of attention and told his mom he was interested in magic. Growing up in the swampland of Minnesota, Tyler depended on the inter-loan library system for his access to magic. Reading books like The Magic Handbook by Peter Eldin and 3/4 of the Greater Magic series, Tyler developed his knowledge and skills alone. He had an opportunity to show off what he learned to fellow magicians after about a year when he visited his first magic shop. While he admits the vanish he did was rather meh, the magicians were impressed that his first bit of coin magic involved putting the coin into Down’s palm. As he grew more aware of the magic community, he began to work with other skilled magicians who welcomed them into their world, sharing their own knowledge and libraries with him.  Working with a Mentor A mentor is able to provide you with something that books, dvds or any other instructional text can’t provide you, Tyler explains, eyes on you. Material created by other people is created with the belief that the person buying is capable of performing exactly what it asks; the creator can’t take into account what you specifically are capable of. Whereas a mentor is able to see who you are and capitalize on the aspects that make you strong while pushing you in the directions you’re clearly passionate for. Alongside focusing on your interests, a good mentor will also help you recognize the aspects of your performance that are wrong so that you can begin to adjust and improve your performance.  Thinking with Context At the end of the day, when you’re planning your performance it all comes down to context. Where are you performing? A stage performance in a theatre and sitting down at a coffee shop are two very different settings. What tone do you want? Who is the audience? What are the forces that are going to affect your trick overall? If you fail to acknowledge that different contexts call for different requirements in your performance, you’re setting yourself up for failure.  Stories & Magic When it comes to telling stories with your magic, you have to step back and ask yourself: Do I like telling stories? If the answer is no, that’s fine; we’re not all born storytellers and you can’t force yourself to take on a role you don’t want to play. By forcing themselves to include stories with their tricks, magicians often cover their magic or overload the audience with information, lessening the impact of the effect. At the end of the day, Tyler points out, we’re human beings and we need to let our passions guide us for, when we express the passion we have for our interests through our performance, that’s what the audience will find entertaining.  Practical Sleight of Hand If you want to do strong sleight of hand magic you need to leave your ego at the door. Tyler explains that sleight of hand magic isn’t good if your sleights are seen; you don’t get points for trying hard material. He drives home the point that you should be looking for moves that are versatile, not angle sensitive, and are at your level. Some moves may be flashy and cool for Instagram, but if you’re terrified by the thought of someone viewing the sleight from the side, then it’s probably not the correct sleight to use. His primary advice, however is: Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice.  You can’t always spend your time always reading books and watching videos. While these are fine to learn from, you won’t get anywhere with your magic if your time is spent only viewing theory; you have to apply the theory to your practice and then actually perform what you’ve been working on to improve.  Wrap Up Endless Chain  Al Schneider  Nick Diffatte  What do you Like About Modern Magic? What Don’t You Like? Tyler likes that people are working harder than ever to make things better than they were in magic. However, these interesting ideas got leveraged into terrible effects because, somewhere along the way, we’ve seemingly lost clarity regarding what is classified as a miracle.  Take Home Point Tyler wants the audience to remember that it is the mindset with which you teach yourself and others. The framing of things in the negative is typically disempowering. If you don’t like something, ask why and press on these things to discover the reason you’re not a fan of them.  Plugs Tyler’s Website Tyler’s Spot in Reel Magic Want to join in on the discourse? Join the Discourse in Magic Facebook page

Discourse is back from our break and, to kick things off, Kostya Kimlat joins Jonah to discuss balancing your business and art, considering various audiences, and the importance of building a community.  Alongside being a skilled sleight-of-hand magician, Kostya is also a business consultant and motivational speaker based in Orlando, Florida. To Kostya, he views his journey through magic as a series of episodes that have led him to his current point in life; the first episode was in Ukraine, where his father taught him two simple card tricks that sparked his interest. When his family moved to America, Kostya discovered the World’s Greatest Magic, which he would record and dissect. Between friends and mentors, Kostya continued to grow in his magic throughout his childhood until eventually his father invested in the Tarbell Course. His contributions to the field of magic started when he was young. Between newsletters and publishing in magazines, Kostya established a reputation for himself among magicians. He valued, and still does, sharing and teaching magic to help other succeed alongside him. Motivation  Losing motivation when starting out your business is all too simple due to the lack of a reward system. In magic and entertainment, you are rewarded for your practice through your audiences. In business, you may only see failure after failure which is difficult to get your head around if you don’t reshape your view of success.  To keep motivated, Kostya recommends starting your business with a friend. If you’re planning to go to restaurants to offer your walkaround services, pitch with a friend who shares your desire; you can keep each other accountable and give the person a nudge when they need it to continue.  Keeping Secrets Any answer is only a few key strokes away if you’re determined enough to discover the secret. While this access is great for the development of humanity, it is a hindrance for magicians as there is such a wealth of knowledge out there that they don’t know how to find the good material. Kostya points to YouTube as an example of the blind leading the blind; there are people online who have measured there success in view counts, so they’re sharing less than useful information.  Kostya has nothing against sharing material, pointing to his work on the cull as an example. His distinction, however, is that he studied the cull for years and has spent time teaching it in person to magicians. He goes on to refer to his YouTube video that breaks down his spots on Fool Us. He knew that kids and amateurs would be posting videos that exposed the technique, so he decided to change the conversation and post his own exposed video so that those who stumbled across it could truly appreciate the effort he put into his spot.  Creating a Business  For the last eighteen years, Kostya has been on his journey through magic, building the necessary skills and knowledge to start truly serving his audience’s needs and focusing on the tricks. His journey into business began with his work with tradeshows, where he had the opportunity to see how the world is much bigger than what he knew. His business views shifted when he began to learn about franchises. As he went from city to city, he recognized that there were the same magician types—with a few magicians in every city who had the same goals as him. Kostya realized that the model he built for his own success could be shared with other magicians to help them succeed. Starting out though, he knew he couldn’t treat his art like his business.  The EMyth Revisited inspired Kostya when he was starting his business. Mapping out the various departments he would need for his business to efficiently run, Kostya took on each of these roles until, over the course of three years, he could hire people to fill positions. Everyday, he would put on a different hat, shifting his perspective of what he was getting done; he recognized that he sometimes needed to focus on his magic to improve his services while other times his focus needed to be in marketing. By understanding that he could focus on different aspects of his business, he shifted his definition of a successful day.  Developing Magic There is a difference between practice and rehearsal. Practice is a personal thing where you work on the moves. Rehearsal involves actively working through your content and recognizing the aspects that need to be improved. Kostya rehearses alongside a team of people, all of them sharing the approach often seen in Spain; they are actively helping each other improve rather than smiling and keeping their criticism to themselves.  Much like his approach to business, Kostya likes to compartmentalize his rehearsal by breaking it down into sections. One of his rehearsal techniques is what he refers to as the Penn & Teller brain. One rehearsal he doesn’t talk but moves through the actions while the next rehearsal is the talking without the actions. By taking this approach, Kostya has been able to focus on the two aspects of his performance before bringing them together. When he began taking this approach, he watched his performance abilu multiply.  Wrap Up Endless Chain Ken Weber  Doug McKenzie Meraux Dantes Modern Magic  Kostya’s loves the fact that live shows and the popularity of magic has continued to grow and seems to be continuing on that trajectory.  He isn’t a fan, however, of people on YouTube who create a false sense of what success is for the viewers; the incoming magicians seem to have a sense that success is in view counts rather than overall skill. Take Home Point Create the reality you want. You have the means and the resources. If you can make the world a better place while doing it, even better.  Plugs Kostya’s Website Kostya’s Instagram Kostya’s Twitter Kostya’s YouTube  Want to join in on the discourse? Join the Discourse in Magic Facebook page

One last bite-sized episode before we return to the interviews! This week, Jonah talks about the magic of scripting and why you should seriously consider it before going on stage. There’s a magic to memorizing your script. Not only are you able to focus on the moment, but you can listen to the audience and take in their feedback. Maybe someone says a line you know you can call back to later on. Or, someone derails your trick, you can immediately jump back into your presentation.  There’s also a confidence you gain when you know your script. No longer are you standing off to the side, thinking about what you’re going to say. Your focus can be on your breathing and taking in the performance atmosphere. Furthermore, having predetermined lines allows you to play with your delivery. Being able to play with your tone and volume allows you to better control the flow of your show.  Memorizing a script allows you to explore and be confident when you go on stage. You don’t have to fumble for what to say next or panic when something goes wrong. Scripting acts as an anchor for you and gives your show a reliable longevity as you continue to grow on stage. 

Keep your magic taste buds ready with these quick tactics from Jonah on how to book more gigs in 2020. The interviews will be back soon with some amazing guests. Booking Tactics: Email Marketing: Get into mailboxes! Reach out to the people in your market to let them know what you do.  Cold Calling: If you think of it as telemarketing, you’re doing it wrong. Contact the people in your market to build a personal connection with them. You’re looking to build a relationship so when the time comes, they know a magician who would be perfect. Niching Your Network: If you know your target market, scroll through your friends with your niche in mind and reach out to them to see if they have potential opportunities in mind.  Rebookings: the more organized you are, the easier this will be. Personally email the people who have booked you in the past to see if they’ll bring you back on again.  Referrals: Reach out to your past gigs to see if they can connect you to people like them.  Facebook Ads: You can target the people in your industry, view your metrics and customize your ads to better reach your market.  Google Ads: When people search for a magician in your niche, you want to be the one that comes up first in their search. 

As Jonah mentioned in the previous episode, he’s taking a four-week break from the regular interviews. So this week, while he works away behind the scenes, Jonah wants to hear about what magic is like in your city! Do a little research to see where magic and magicians reside in your city. For example, in Toronto: Clubs: Sid Lorraine Hat & Rabbit Club, Alakajam, Browser’s Den Monthly Club Shops: Browsers Den of Magic Conventions: Browser’s Bash Organization: Magicana, The Toronto Magic Company Shows: Newest Trick, The Art of Magic, The Wanderer Show, Magic & Martini Maybe you’re not seeing the event or community you want. Maybe there isn’t a community at all in your city. Well, good news! You have the opportunity to build one yourself! There are a lot of people who have recently started putting on shows and creating the magic they want to see in their area: Felice Ling & Zach Evans started up the Boston Magic Lab  Brent Braun launched the J & B Magic Shop  The Magic Underground has started up in Indianapolis  If you’re not sure where to start, please reach out through email or social media! Jonah would love to help you build up your community.

Is this the end of Discourse in Magic? Of course not! But, Jonah is taking a break from interviews for the next few weeks to work on some projects for you, the listeners. However, he’ll keep serving up some bite-sized episodes to keep your appetites wet. While the podcast might be taking a slight break, Jonah won’t be. He’s currently working on a course that will help you take a trick and turn it into your own masterpiece. For more information, you can sign up for the mailing list at the bottom of the page. Jonah also recently released a book! If you’re looking for help on how to become a professional, Your First Five Gigs is a great resource. Jonah draws on his own experiences starting out to help you avoid the common mistakes he did. You can purchase the book here: https://gumroad.com/l/ZibZR. As always, if you have questions or comments about the podcast or anything magic related, please reach out!

Episode 200!  To celebrate this milestone, Jonah travelled all the way to Spain to sit down with the maestro himself: Juan Tamariz.  At four years old, Juan fell in love with magic and knew he had to become a magician. However, becoming a magician wasn’t a viable option back in the day, so he attended film school. While working in the film industry, he performed in the summer; he learned a lot about performing while making very little. Eventually, after a brief stint in advertising, he decided to pursue magic as nothing else would suffice for him.  Mentors Slydini. Ascanio. Robert Houdini. Frakson. These are some of the magicians who were his friends and mentors. From teaching him to love his audience to not seeking glory to the fundamentals of magic, Juan learned alongside and was inspired by these magicians.  During the episode, Juan steps away from the mic to show Jonah a photo of him and his friends: Magic in Spain What separates magic in Spain compared to anywhere else, is the love of magic and fellow magician. Magicians in Spain are constantly meeting and sharing ideas, working together to create magic moments to share with their audiences. When newcomers to magic approach him or come to the magic club, they aren’t turned away but rather led down a path that matches their skill level. More and more, the people in Spain are recognizing magic as an art. They attend shows, know magicians and appreciate the beauty behind magic. Compared to when Juan was starting out, magic has continued to rise in popularity, making the potential to be a magician and share magic an attainable goal.  Making Magic Juan has no one method for creating his magic. He waits for inspiration to strike him. When an idea hits him, the focus is on the effect rather than the method; while he doesn’t want the audience to know how an effect is done, he wants the effect to be simple and clear.  In terms of expressing emotions or theme, Juan doesn’t set out with the single goal of expressing a particular idea through his patter or the trick; he believes that the effects he chooses and the way he performs express his interior views of the exterior world.  At the end of it all, he mainly wants to experience the magic with his audience. He loves the audience, and he loves magic. By stopping to experience the magical moment before moving to the next trick, he too can revel in the emotional impact magic can bring.  Wrap Up Endless Chain  Roberto Giobi What do you like about modern magic? What don’t you like?  Juan enjoys the communication of magic alongside the fact that there are more magicians sharing the wonderful art form with the world.  Take Home Point  “I LOVE YOU!”

Jonah is joined by Nathan Kranzo this week to talk about creating unique effects, entertaining an audience, and taking risks.  Nathan is known for his out of the box thinking when it comes to magic and performing. Like most kids, Nate received a magic kit, but he wasn’t exactly ready for one; it didn’t take long for him to fill the drawer box with lit firecrackers. His influence to take up magic came from his grandfather who, while not a magician, was the ultimate prankster. Nate was introduced to fake snot and envelopes filled with rattlesnakes eggs by his grandfather at a young age. While not magic, it instilled the love of jokes and pranks in him.  It wouldn’t be until he was 15 that he saw live magic. The carnival came to his suburban town and in the beer tent the local IBM had stationed their booth. He watched a man do an amazing billiard ball routine, giving him his first taste of good sleight of hand. Nate took their flyer and put it in his junk drawer, only returning to it a year later when he and his friends started to get into magic.  Nate would go on to cover every aspect of the familiar magician starting out stories. He joined a club and saw a performer with chops. He went off to university and worked at a magic store where he honed his presentation and sleight of hand skills. He started street performing and learned from buskers. He dealt with kids shows and made his way around open mic nights to hone his skills.  Unique Creations Say things out loud and follow the tangents. Throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Write down ideas that sound dumb because those are the ones that tend to be the best ones. There are no rules to creating, Nate explains, which is why you can’t limit yourself. When he was starting out, he started creating his own effects by drawing on the sleights and concepts he knew; he didn’t really have access to material and nobody told him he couldn’t try to make his own material.  Research Nate spends a lot of time researching and going down rabbit holes. Utilizing the endless amount of magic content on YouTube, library resources, calling and emailing people, and following leads on sites like Alexander, Nate has built up a substantial toolbox for himself. When an idea falls into his lap, he is able to point to similar concepts. While this, at first, isn’t necessarily creative, his knowledge helps him develop his own material.  Going out to see live entertainment is a resource Nate uses for performance research. The only way to be inspired to entertain is seeing other performers. Watch how they work the room and connect with the audience. Magic crosses over with a lot of other art forms, so you can draw on techniques of good showmen from other entertainment areas.  Comedy & Magic Magic doesn’t need to be funny, it just has to have an energy that moves the audience; you want them to feel the passion behind what you’re doing if you want them to be entertained. Nate just prefers mixing comedy and magic because making others laugh is what brings him joy.  If you’re looking to add comedy to your magic, Nate recommends not only watching comedians but listening to the audience. On the odd occasion and audience member may toss you a line that you can integrate into your show.  Wrap Up Endless Chain  Eric Buss Modern Magic Nate enjoys the fact that technology allows us to connect with people easier than before. Even though magic clubs are struggling, younger members are able to find them because of posts they see on Twitter and Instagram. Suddenly, they are now plugged into their community. Nate doesn’t like how much people shit on each other. We’re all playing in the same sandbox. Take Home Point There are no wrong answers. Magic can be whatever you want it to be for you.  Plugs Visit Kranzo Magic and use the discount code THANKS for 20% off for the next few weeks! Nate’s Instagram Nate’s Twitter

Ben Train, Chris Mayhew and Jacque Swan join Jonah once again this year to reflect on 2019 and look ahead to 2020. From winning awards, to getting into performing, to disillusionment, a lot has happened since last year’s episode. The four also discuss coin magic, soup, and Ben creates a drinking game involving Jonah’s hats.  Highlights Ben: His highlight was being able to produce so many shows in 2019. Through TMC, he has been able to share the magicians he loves with Toronto.  Chris: Now that he’s working with Lost Art, he had the opportunity to experience the business and curation side of magic. He also was happy to start performing on stage again.  Jacque: Her highlight was the amount of shows she performed in, seeing her confidence grow on stage, and finding tricks that she’s been able to make her own.  Jonah: Overall, he had a fantastic year. Between travelling to interview magicians for the podcast to his summer tour to the work he did with TMC, he was able to accomplish so much magic wise.  Lowlights Ben: He didn’t make the changes he had wanted to make in terms of his personal show.   Chris: Although working with Lost Art has been fantastic, he regrets not working on more of his own material for release.  Jacque: The period where she just had no drive to practice or do any magic. She feels the impacts of that down time now.  Jonah: He struggled with how much time he wanted to spend focusing on the creative aspects of magic.  2020 Resolutions: Ben:  He wants to find a balance in his magic by looking into other aspects like lecturing and producing shoes. He’s also made moves in other areas outside of magic to help this balance.  Chris: He wants to start performing his one man show again. Jacque: She wants to actively show people the material she’s working on.  Jonah: While he still wants to be a performer, he wants to grow as a show producer and podcaster.  Words of Wisdom Ben: Accept and invite change in your life.  Chris: Self love is critical.  Jacque: Embrace your community.  Jonah: Plan big. Be ambitious.  Plugs: Ben’s Instagram (Check out The Toronto Magic Company) Chris’ Instagram (Check out Lost Art Magic) Jacque’s Instagram (Check out Sleight Club)