Discourse in Magic

Jonah is joined by Francis Menotti this week to discuss virtual performances, working as a duo, and methods to improve your creativity. Francis is a performer, consultant, and half of the magic duo: Couple of Magicians.   When he received a magic kit for his fifth Christmas, Francis was quick to embrace the deviousness of magic as a way of making the impossible possible. His interest continued throughout elementary and high school, where he began to perform at birthdays. By the time he was attending college at Penn State (where he started the first magic club with friend Ran’D Shine), he began to see that magic was the path for him. Knowing he wanted to make a living doing magic, Francis moved to Philly. Forced Creativity  If you’ve seen Francis perform, you probably immediately noticed he has a unique approach to performing magic (you don’t have to look much further than his Fool Us performance). A lot of his ideas and acts have come from this idea of forced creativity – limiting your resources and setting guidelines to drive and focus your creativity on one task. From games to understanding what he’s looking for in an effect, Francis has developed different systems to help him improve his own creative process.  During the episode, Francis proposes two games that will help you develop your toolset and give the books you own the time they deserve. The first game is a “follow the leader” style game where players try to repeat the actions of the moderator; if you can’t do a move, you now have the task of figuring out how to. The second game involves using a random number generator to select a book and effect/essay that you then need to read and understand.  Becoming a Duo Act Alongside being a solo performer, Francis performs in a duo act with his wife, Lindsey Noel. The process to create their duo show has been a fun but challenging one. Francis has been forced to approach aspects of performing differently which has been a beneficial creative experience for him. He’s had to rework the way he thinks about blocking and interacting with the audience on stage, knowing that he has a partner to share the time with.  When the two talk about ideas, the answer isn’t ever simply no. The answer is “there’s a way of doing that idea, but you have to remember the time and budget constraints.” It’s not just new ideas they’re creating for the act though. Francis has taken pieces he’s done for years and incorporated Lindsey in them as an equal performer in the routine.  Virtual Magic When the self-isolation period began, Francis and his wife immediately began working on a virtual show, recognizing that this wasn’t going to be a short hiatus. The past few weeks have been about trial and error to determine what does and doesn’t work. While they have had success, there have been some learning moments along the way.  Francis highlights that right now people are tuning in to watch people do things live for a chance to connect. They’re not looking for high production value currently, but he believes that’s beginning to shift as more people move into performing virtual shows. And, now that people are aware that shows can be done online, the request for virtual performances isn’t going to go away. This is why, as an entertainment industry, we need to figure out how to make it not bad. Wrap Up Endless Chain Marc DeSouza What do you like about modern magic? What don’t you like? He enjoys that magicians are taking more time to figure out performance ideas.  He isn’t a fan of the cliquishness of magic. Take-Home Point Keep moving forward and don’t be afraid to make mistakes.  Plugs Couple of Magicians Facebook Page Francis’ Website Francis’ Site for Discourse Listeners  Francis’ Instagram 

Derren Brown joins Jonah this week to discuss developing ideas, finding your own voice, and what magic means in our current society. Between his award-winning stage shows, TV specials, and books, you’re probably familiar with the UK based mentalist.  Hypnotism was Derren’s path into magic. During his time studying German and law in university, he had the chance to see hypnotist Martin Taylor perform. His interests shifted, and he began to practice hypnosis alongside his studies. When he started working, Derren learned that magic was easier to present to people compared to hypnotism. Derren’s shift from being a gigging magician to a household name was slow. Even with the release of Mind Control in 2000, Derren was still working as a restaurant magician. Between focusing on doing the strongest magic and the skills of the team he’s built over the years, Derren has been able to create a name for himself.  Mentalism & Magic Derren dropped the conjuring side of his persona when the TV specials started to kick off. Mentalism, to him, allows for more impressive presentations than simply finding a card; however, you have to go further than just asking someone to think of a word, writing it down, and showing you got it right. The interesting aspect of mentalism lies in the process the performer takes to divine the word. If your goal is to take your audience’s mind to a richer place, you have to commit to the process. There is, of course, the ethical questions behind mentalism that Derren has struggled with over the years. Initially, he would make direct claims about his abilities, but, as he grew, Derren found an area where he could be honest while digging into the interesting aspects of magic. While he’s been able to create a brand that allows for this, Derren explains to performers that you should be taking responsibility for your actions and focusing on the core audience watching you. Tips for Performing Light and shade is necessary for any performance. If a trick is slow and serious, the next one should probably be upbeat and quick. The performer has a responsibility, especially in a theatrical setting, to move people in different ways. Derren explains that you don’t want to be operating in one state of being on stage as it’ll be difficult to create those big shifts your performance needs. You have to earn what you’re doing on stage. For example, if you want to tell the audience how to be, you have to be vulnerable and reflect on your own actions. Derren points to good comics as an example: they often have a lot to say, but they don’t come across as preachy because they put themselves at a lower status than the audience. Never have a better time than your audience. If anything, you want to carry with you the image of a spectator on the verge of leaving. How do you keep them engaged? How do you surprise them and keep them in their seat?  Finally, be likable. Be you. You can have all the power if you act like you don’t have it because we want to connect with a human. Derren explains that we like performers for what they do, but we love them for what they are.  Creating a Show Derren has worked alongside Andy Nyman and Andrew O’Connor since his early TV specials to create his shows. The three of them will sit down to brainstorm themes, images, and the core of the show. What they don’t do is talk about the tricks. Their focus is on finding the rhythm of the show and determining what beats they want to hit throughout. What tone is he starting the show with? How can they overdeliver with the ending? The finale is what people last remember when they leave the theatre. The finale is where you can get away with madness and rule-breaking as you build up the audience. He wants something simple but that explains so much of what the audience saw. Derren reminds listeners that there are a million ways to end a show. You just need to make a conscious choice about what you want your audience to leave with.  Wrap Up Endless Chain Hector Chadwick (Stephen Long) What do you like about modern magic? What don’t you like? Derren doesn’t really keep up with the world of magic, but he has really enjoyed Christian Grace’s work on billet switches recently.  Take-Home Point Be human. Be likable in a way that is right for you and love what you’re doing. It’s not about the trick, it’s about your humanity.  Plugs Derren’s Twitter Derren’s Instagram  Derren’s Website 

Jonah is joined by Nathan Coe Marsh this week to talk about finding inspiration, guiding your audience, and balancing your approach to business. Nathan is a magician from Orlando who splits his time between magic venues and the corporate performing world. After seeing his father’s friend perform Kennedy’s floating bill, Nathan was hooked. He laid awake at night, trying to figure out how the trick was done. When he learned he could buy the trick, his excitement escalated and his interest grew. While it started as a hobby that he would nervously perform for friends, he eventually landed a job at a summer camp teaching magic. From summer camp to shows to walk around, Nathan recognized that the more he worked, the more polished his material. He struck deals with dinner theatres to let him perform closeup whenever he wanted, and he spent nights at comedy clubs refining his material in front of a crowd that wasn’t there to see a magician. All of this was important in shaping who he is on stage today as a performer. Creating Magic If you want to uncover and create good ideas, you need a notebook. As you go through magic material, you’re going to uncover effects or concepts that appeal to you, but at the moment don’t quite feel right. In your future studies, however, you may find yourself drawn back to an idea with how to shape it to fit you. Nathan points to the effect he did on Fool Us as an example of an idea that started merely as a quote in his notebook.  However, you shouldn’t confine yourself to just magic. You have to be curious in the world and explore where your passions take you. When you sit down to create, your interests are what will shape your decisions and choices.  Scripting to Rehearsal  When approaching scripting, Nathan has a few approaches he takes depending on the goal he’s trying to accomplish. One such process is recording himself walking through the performance as if there’s an audience and transcribing what he said. With words on paper, he can begin to edit.  His main concern with scripting is to lead his audience through four goalposts: focus, rapport, climax, and emotional reaction. Nathan wants to bring this room of strangers together as an audience, take them down a path, and then have them leave the theatre having experienced a particular sensation.  Rehearsal is a numbers game to Nathan. For sleights, he works them into his daily routines, finding ways to accomplish reps of moves throughout the day. For his act, he’ll set up a space for his show in his home so he can fully practice his routine. Overall, finding ways to schedule shows and Balancing Business & Performance When starting out, it’s imperative to find a balance between working on your business and working on your performance. By focusing your efforts on just one or the other, you’ll slow your progress down and prevent yourself from developing your business. Nathan explains that there is an inherent intertwining of your business’ pipeline with the quality of your show. So, don’t feel guilty when you’re working on material, but don’t like your booking and marketing tactics fall to the wayside.  After exploring where your interests are, you’ll need to eventually sit down and ask yourself where exactly you belong. Does the stage call to you? Or is walk around where you thrive? By being honest about where you thrive, you can continue to build up your skill set in that area.   Wrap Up Endless Chain Jack Goldfinger What do you like about modern magic? What don’t you like? Nathan likes the proliferation of high-end magic venues. While magicians are given a reason to elevate their magic, the public has the chance to experience strong magic.  He isn’t fond of how magic clubs have failed to adapt to the internet, essentially losing the upcoming generations. Everyone’s an expert online and twelve-year-olds don’t know how to discern what is and isn’t right.  Take-Home Point Be willing to suck.  Plugs Nathan’s Website Nathan’s Penguin Act  Nathan’s Instagram  Nathan’s YouTube

This week, Jonah serves up a bite-sized episode on virtual magic shows. With Covid-19 halting shows, some magicians have taken to performing online, a fairly radical shift in the way magic is performed. Under the Toronto Magic Company, Jonah and his business partner, Ben Train, have had the opportunity to put on multiple virtual shows, so he’s passing on some advice and tips to the listeners. Magic is about interacting and while some aspects of performing are lost through video, others become easier. Eye contact is easier to make with everyone. No one has to sit in the back. And, on sites like Zoom, you have easy access to everyone’s name! Just hover your mouse over their image. Selecting a spectator has never been easier. However, don’t go in with the same show you do on stage. Create a show they can interact with. Tailor it to the platform. Do the closeup card magic you can’t do on stage. Try the angle sensitive tricks that would only work on camera. You have the opportunity to get creative and push the boundaries of this new format. Although it’s a different feeling, you can still bring joy and magic to people who want. It’s a break from everything else in their lives right now. If you’re looking for a place to ask questions and discuss virtual magic (or anything magic), you should join the Discourse in Magic Facebook group. Jonah’s been hosting live interviews with previous guests like Garrett Thomas and Fernando Figueras.

Jonah is joined by Nick Diffatte this week to discuss comedy, finding a style, and embracing your ideas no matter how stupid they might be. Nick Diffatte might be young, but his strong magic and comedy chops have allowed him to not only perform internationally but headline residences on the Las Vegas strip and on the Disney Cruise Line. His interest in magic came from his interest in juggling. Attending local library shows and fairs to see jugglers led to him seeing magic shows which eventually led to him getting into magic. In going to local magic shops and joining his local SAM clubs, Nick was guided along the way by local performers like Tyler Erickson. Starting out at twelve years old, he did local events and birthdays before realizing he wanted more stage time. At fourteen, he was snuck into bars to host burlesque shows. Having frequently flown out to Las Vegas to perform at local casinos and sleep on Bizzaro’s couch, Nick decided that it only made sense for him to move out there full-time. Not only was it a cheap city to live in, but it was where the action was. Vegas was where the shows and likeminded performers were. With a forty-five minute set, Nick moved from Minnesota to Vegas. Playing Around If you were to walk into Nick’s apartment, you would be greeted by vintage pranks, toys, and a suitcase of yoyos. To Nick, his whole existence is based on toys and by having everything out in the open he is able to have a creative space where the ideas are in front of him. As someone with multiple creative outlets, he is constantly playing with new thing acknowledging that he never knows what stupid, random thing will be the next big trick.  Really, you need to play. You need to play without being concerned that you’re going to create stupid material because you will. But you need to find out what you want to play with. The audience can tell when you’re being authentic. They know when you’re making stuff up because you want to show them specific tricks. You have to show them something that is real to you before they’ll buy it. That’s why Nick does tricks that he genuinely finds funny and come from his interests in juggling and toys. Creating Material & Taking Notes Nick always has a notebook or a piece of paper on him to write down ideas. I f he doesn’t, then that idea is lost. He explains that he writes down everything with the notion going in that he’s going to have shitty ideas. When he’s filled up a notebook, he’ll then sit down and find which ideas appeal to him and will write them into the front page of his next notebook, keeping them fresh in his mind. When adding material to his show, Nick will come in with a set of requirements that the trick must fulfill. With these in mind, Nick will then come up with a concept that fulfills these requirements while meeting his criteria for what makes a good image on stage while appealing to him. Going on stage and rambling out patter is not how he operates. Nick tends to script 70-80% before taking a trick to stage.  Stolen Material Having had his material stolen and performed in front of him basically verbatim, Nick knows what it’s like to have your work stolen. It sucks. Luckily, there were people who policed the issue, but Nick feels magic could do more, pointing to the fact that if you steal something in  comedy from a well-known comedian, you’re blacklisted in the community. There’s a fine line between using published material that people have willingly offered to the community, and taking someone’s full hour act to perform.  Remember, especially if you see it at a convention, it’s a performance, not a lecture.  If you’re new and you don’t want to step on anyone’s toes, Nick recommends that you read and create and discuss your material. If someone recognizes that your material is similar to something else, great! Research it. Find the lineage. Reach out to the person who created it before you and ask if your idea is too similar. People are easy to get in contact with and are usually more than happy to help you…beforehand.  Wrap Up Endless Chain Paul Kozak Bizzaro What do you like about modern magic? What don’t you like? Nick enjoys that, after putting out his book, young magicians have reached out to him with an interest in pursuing comedy magic. There are only a handful of people his age doing good comedy and good magic. He doesn’t like that everything in magic online and on television feels like a prank show. There’s better ways to showcase magic with the medium.  Take Home Point Be open minded. Be open to play. Be open to new mediums. Don’t go into something with the idea that you’re only going to focus on the aspects that are immediately useful to your performances. Just enjoy a new medium for what it is.  Plugs Nick’s Book Nick’s Website Nick’s Instagram

Jonah is joined by both Morgan & West this week to talk about scripting, creating an atmosphere, and understanding how character should influence your choices. Morgan & West are magicians, time-travellers & all round spiffing chaps who spend their time touring their shows around the U.K. Morgan & West met in University through theatre productions. Independently, the two of them had begun to learn card tricks, so they started to egg each other on to keep practicing. In 2008, they did a stage show as magicians. While it wasn’t very good, they were able to learn a lot from the experience. Their reason for jumping into performing was simple: sitting in their bedroom doing card tricks was going to help become performers. You have to start making what you want to do to eventually reach the vision you have in your head.  Creating Shows Morgan & West have six different shows under their belts. While the small U.K. touring scene is a factor as to why they have so many, they explain that, really, they just get bored and want a challenge. Writing a show is a skill and the only way to get better at it is by creating more of them. Everytime they approach a new show, their goal is to create something bigger, better and more ambitious than the previous one. And the creation of the show extends beyond simply what they’re saying on stage.  Morgan & West approach their shows with the phrase “pack large, play medium.” They don’t shy away from bringing in sets to set a mood before the show even begins. When the audience walks into the theatre and sees the sets on stage, hear the music setting the tone, and see the two of them bantering before the show, the audience is more likely to give the duo five minutes of their time at the outset. By improving the overall feel of the show, Morgan & West are promising their audience they’re going to have an experience.   Working as a Duo According to Morgan & West, working as a duo is a lot easier than working solo. As a duo, they can independently find material, pitch it to the other, and then have a conversation about how to best adapt the material to their characters. Through these conversations, they’re able to flesh out concepts and turn them into acts that better suit their characters. On the other end of it, the other acts as an editor, pointing out when certain concepts won’t work; these instances are often followed by long conversations to understand why one person doesn’t like a particular idea.  Scripting works the same way. While Morgan is better at developing material while on the stage, West is better at putting ideas down on the stage. Between the two of them, they’re able to edit the content down and find the moments that work. With this in mind, they are constantly shaping their performances, discussing what did and didn’t work after their shows.  Developing Authentic Characters You don’t need to be a time traveller or a dragon to be a character. A good character, simply put, is a combination of traits and shticks that establish who “you” as a performer are to the audience. Alongside giving you a foundation to follow while making performance decisions (i.e. blocking or effect selection), a character also helps to make magic less confrontational for the audience; they know that you know that this isn’t real, allowing them to swallow a bigger lie as you tell them smaller lies to pull off your effects.  The way of creating good bits for your character is to fundamentally understand your character. Write some lines. See how you feel about what you’ve written? What works? What doesn’t? Understand why you do and don’t like certain aspects, and then rewrite. With that in mind, don’t force a certain character on yourself; you have to enjoy it or else the audience won’t. At the end of it all though, you have to understand why you’re making certain choices.  Wrap Up Endless Chain Rune Klan Take Home Point The first is to know and understand what decisions you’re making and why. The second point is the only way to get good at something, is by constantly doing that thing.  Plugs Morgan & West’s new book: Parlour Tricks  Morgan & West’s Website Morgan & West’s Instagram

David Ben joins Jonah this episode to discuss if magic is an art form, producing shows, and developing a curatorial eye to improve your magic. From being a performer to a producer to the founder of Magicana, David has spent the last 40 years shaping magic as an art in the public eye. While he tells many stories of how he entered magic, David’s journey started like many others of his generation; he saw Doug Henning performing on TV specials. Alongside seeing Vernon on various Canadian programs, David was influenced to begin his journey into magic. From Stein Day’s Handbook of Magic to Ross Bertram’s Magic and Methods, he dove into his studies. David grew up in Toronto alongside Jay Sankey and Gary Kurtz while he worked at Morrissey Magic. While working and performing, he attended thr University of Toronto for his undergraduate degree before attending Western for law with the intention of becoming a producer. Putting on a Show When selecting his material, David never chooses his repertoire based on “Will this make money?” By selecting material that he found interesting, he was able to convey through the pieces why the audience should be interested. His show, The Conjuror, came out of his desire to create a character that wasn’t just him. By doing this, he could play with a different style that would create a different show for the audience.  When it comes to producing, you need to be able to work on a team; a large show cannot be done by one person. If you’re the leader, you need to learn how to lead beyond telling people what to do. Find ways to draw out the creativity and expertises of those you’re working with. Additionally, learn the language of the industry so that you come across as knowing what you’re talking about.   Developing an Aesthetic Taste To anyone who wants to develop an aesthetic eye, David recommends looking beyond that magic world. Take in art and music to understand what moves and interests you. David believes that magic isn’t an art but a craft that, in the right hands, can be elevated to an art form. Aesthetic emotion, a term coined by art critic Clive Bell, is a concept that explains that at the core of any art form are certain fundamentals that move people.  When you’re creating your magic with this in mind, you should be focused on finding those universals that move people to tell your stories around – seeing snow for the first time isn’t a good emotional hook. You want people to feel what you’re saying on an instinctual basis rather than analytical, or else they’ll just try to work out how the tricks are done.  In terms of material, you need to set criteria for what you’ll need. Do you need it to be short and visual? Is the setup worth the payoff?  But, make sure you’re still choosing material that moves you in a way that you can convey it to the audience. You want to create texture in your magic by considering everything that you’re doing on stage and what the journey it is your audience is taking throughout the performance. Magicana Receiving funding for a magic production has always been difficult. After noticing that theatre and film had funds in place to support the industry, David put on his producers hat and decided to create his own charity to help magicians: Magicana. With the help of Patrick Watson and Daniel Zuckerbrot, the arts organization was established to explore and advance magic as an art form in the public eye. Later on, Magicana would recieve financial support from the Slaight family.  The foundation has focused on putting on public shows, making content accessible to the public with free online exhibits, has helped in curating art exhibits like the Illusions: Art of Magic exhibit at the AGO and has created an annual award that recognizes emerging magicians and those who have contributed to the development of magic.   Allan Slaight Covid-19 Relief Fund The Slaight’s are a community-driven family who want to support the magic community. With the recent blow dealt to the entertainment industry by Covid-19, the Slaight have set up a $150,000 fund to support professional, Canadian magicians for the next three months. All magicians who meet the requirements will receive $500 to be used towards expenses. You can apply here: https://www.magicana.com/allan-slaight-relief-fund-professional-magicians David hopes that other people who have done well by magic will step up and replicate what the Slaight have done in their own communities to support out-of-work magicians. Wrap Up Endless Chain Teller What do you like about modern magic? What don’t you like? While he enjoys that magic can be found online and accessed by anyone, he dislikes that people are able to flood magic with bad material, further muddying the waters for people trying to find material. Take-Home Point Broaden your horizons and don’t be afraid to be a lone voice. Plugs Magicana David’s Website David’s Email: david@davidben.com

Michael Ammar joins Jonah this week to talk about signature tricks, mentors, and leaving room for your audience’s imagination. From teaching to creating to performing, Michael Ammar has done it all, building his name in the magic community.  Magic never seemed like a viable career path for him. Sure, he liked it, but he always thought he’d take over his father’s steakhouse. The turning point came one busy day at the steakhouse where his father told him that the restaurant would one day be his. Realizing that the steakhouse wasn’t fun the way magic was, Michael made a deal with his dad; he had two years to do something with magic or he’d come back.  Knowing what would wait for him if he didn’t succeed, Michael started doing conferences and schools, alongside winning at a SAM convention which led him to doing lecture tours. Along the way, he’d perform some of the best spots on late night shows, create one of the most in-depth magic tutorial series, and become a mainstay in the community.  Signature Magic If you’ve seen any of Michael’s material, the word “visual” would most likely come to mind. The effects he chooses, Michael explains, are simple to explain and visual because it is a visual art form. However, over the years, he’s come to appreciate the cerebral aspects of magic.  Referencing the book Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud, Michael explains that by leaving spaces for the audience’s imagination to fill in the blanks, you create a collaborative environment. Suddenly, the audience and performer are working together to create the magic. After they’ve filled in the blank, Michael will then hit them with the strongest visual possible.  Writing & Performing a Script  Michael approaches scripting by sitting down, writing too much to say, and then scrapping what doesn’t feel right when he’s on stage. He explains that he’d rather have too much to say while he’s performing on stage rather than having nothing while he’s performing.  That is the key, Michael points out. You have to find a safe stage to be able to perform material to find what does and doesn’t work.  Creating Magic Tutorials When he set out to create magic tutorials, there was always the temptation to teach more than what was necessary. But, knowing that they not only wanted to set but elevate a standard, Michael went into creating the tutorials by asking what they could to make it a more effective teaching device. He spent hours immersing themselves in material longer than other people because they could. The market was ripe for good learning material which is why the tutorials hold up to this day.  Nowadays, Michael says, the shelf life of this products is limited. Most products aren’t meant to sit on a shelf or become a mainstay in a collection. Putting the time and effort into products like they did back in the day isn’t necessarily worth it today with how quickly the market turns over.  Wrap Up Endless Chain Jeff Taylor What do you like about modern magic? What don’t you like? Not being able to predict trends, is what Michael does and doesn’t enjoy. Trends today are things that he wouldn’t have banked on being successful a decade ago.  Take Home Point It doesn’t matter where you are. You can benefit from the wealth of magic knowledge that is out there. Plugs  Michael’s Website World’s Greatest Magic Want to join in on the discourse? Join the Discourse in Magic Facebook page.

Right now, we’re living through some scary, uncertain times. But, with everyone self-isolating, we’re flattening the curve and giving our healthcare system a fighting chance to get us back to some semblance of normal as quickly as possible. With all this time now, we should be focused on improving ourselves so that when we can come back, we can come back stronger than ever. The Discourse Team promises that in the coming weeks, we’ll have some fantastic guests to keep you occupied and thinking about your magic. Most likely, you’ve had gigs cancel or postpone on you due to Covid-19. Jonah, and TMC, has felt the impact and sympathizes with your circumstances. While getting through this time, Jonah offers some tips to performers: Get a deposit for future shows. Book shows a few months in advance. Include a Corona Clause to keep your current clients for the future. Make gift cards so people can still support your shows now. Whether you’re a professional or a hobbyist magician, there are activities you can be doing now to take advantage of the time. Recently, Jonah sent out an email with ideas on how to spend your time. If you’re not signed up for the mailing list and would like to keep informed, you can do so here. If you missed the email, here were the ideas mentioned in the email: Learn a new trick from the material you already own. Gather your marketing material together so that when you need it, you have it all in one place. Back up your computer. Clip out some of the footage from the shows that we’re sure you’ve been recording. Have a jam session over Skype. Transcribe your act or trick to clean up your script. Build better expense management processes. Fix your website. Listen to podcast episodes you’ve set aside (or binge some of your favourite Discourse in Magic episodes). Watch some magic online. This could be on Magicana’s Screening Room, Fool Us acts, or checking out some of the Magic Castle acts magicians have posted to YouTube. If you’re interested in joining some fans of the podcast and want to add to the discourse, you should join the Discourse in Magic Facebook group (Jonah knows. 208 episodes later and now he decides to create a place for his fans?! But! It’s here now). At the end of the day, we’ll get through this. Don’t give up hope. We’ll see you next Thursday. Peace!

Jonah joins Luke Dancy this week to discuss exposure online, consulting for Criss Angel, and the magic marketplace. Alongside being a magic consultant, Luke works with Murphy’s Magic Supplies and hosts a weekly livestream where he talks with magic creators about their recent product releases. At the age of eight, Luke saw David Copperfield performing on TV and, since then, he’s been a magician. While his journey into magic began with him dabbling with tricks, he began to take it seriously after attending a S.A.M. convention in Milwaukee when he was sixteen. Seeing so many magicians and masters of the craft in one room was an eye opening experience to him. He began to befriend people in the community, and he quickly developed a community around him.  He started out as a performer, polishing his magic at a high end sushi restaurant two nights a week. As he continued to attend conventions throughout his early twenties, he began to build a name for himself and, through the help of his friend Tim Trono, Criss Angel eventually reached out to him, inviting him to join his team. After working with Criss for seven years, he would eventually move on to working with Murphy’s Magic.  Consulting for Television Being a television consultant is more than just creating concepts for tricks. While you are taking old plots and making them fresh for a performer, you also need to recognize that you’ll need to wear various hats behind the scenes. There is a timeline with television productions, so if something goes wrong, you need to be ready to think on your feet and be ready to move on to the next effect if necessary. It’s a fun but extremely stressful job.  Luke’s strength with consulting was his ability to take effects and place them into a real world context. When he was plotting out new tricks for Criss to do, he would walk through the casino and figure out what effects Criss could perform based on the spots he passed.  The Magic Marketplace  The marketplace is flooded but you shouldn’t let that discourage you, Luke explains. If you have a trick you want to see become a reality and you’ve put months or years into perfecting it, you shouldn’t give up on bringing it to the marketplace. That being said, you shouldn’t expect to become rich from releasing material; to actually make money doing that, you would need to constantly be creating and releasing and it’s impossible to continuously release quality effects. But what makes a good effect? Based on Luke’s observations, he says that tricks that have a toy aspect, are built well, and are visual are often the effects that sell well in the marketplace. The tricks also need to be something you would perform. People can tell when a trick is released for the sake of making money.  Online Exposure If you’re sharing magic online when it’s not your material, Luke does not agree with it. He sees these people as wanting to gain views and monetize ideas of other people. Most of the people online sharing the scerts haven’t done anything for the community and are only damaging it by teaching other people’s material incorrectly. While he hopes that this is only a fad and will soon die out, Luke points out that if the people who stumble across these videos and gain a real interest in magic dig deeper, they’ll find the actual good material.  Wrap-Up Endless Chain  Ryan Schlutz What do you like about modern magic? What don’t you like? While Luke loves that the internet has given us the ability to connect with magicians and discover a deeper wealth of magic making it easier to cite sources, he dislikes how people abuse social media to get views and skip the hard work necessary to build a real name in the industry.  Take Home Point Luke wants people to know that he loves magic, and he is doing everything he can to inspire and guide the next generation into the art form.  Plugs Luke’s Facebook Group: All Things Magic Luke’s Murphy’s Live Show Luke’s Instagram Want to join in on the discourse? Join the Discourse in Magic Facebook page