The Resilient Recruiter

What does the future look like for recruitment agency owners? In this episode, I’m joined by DeeDee Doke, Editor-in-Chief of Recruiter magazine. With over 20 years in the role, DeeDee has a unique view of the industry, both in the UK and globally. We recorded this live at the Recruitment Agency Expo in London, and talked about how recruitment is changing — fast. Whether it's AI, M&A trends, or the shift from start-up to scale-up, we cover what agency leaders need to know to prepare for the next five years. Episode Outline and Highlights [03:00] DeeDee’s journey from Seattle to London — and 20 years leading Recruiter magazine [08:00] Discussion on doing business in the US in 2025 from the perspective of UK recruitment companies. [09:30] US events and the economy impact the UK recruitment market. [19:04] The differentiator between the UK recruitment industry and the US [27:00] AI and the future of recruitment. [34:47] Advocating the professionalism and pride of the recruiting profession. [40:29] Redefining recruitment: professional pride, upskilling, and smarter hiring Innovation is King - Especially in a Saturated Market DeeDee and I had a very interesting conversation on the similarities and differences between the UK and US recruitment markets. One of the key differences I pointed out is how saturated the UK market is compared to the US, while the US offers more profitable potential due to fees generated from higher salaries. DeeDee pointed out one thing that sets apart the UK market as a differentiator - she believes that the UK recruitment agencies, especially SMEs, are often more innovative than their US counterparts, not because of scale, but because saturation forces creativity. The US tends to focus on scale, while UK firms focus on differentiation and doing things differently. But the key takeaway is this: You don’t need to be the biggest—you just need to do things differently, and better. Innovation is now a competitive requirement, not a nice-to-have. AI and the Future of Recruitment You will also enjoy DeeDee’s insightful take on the advent of AI and how it will impact recruiters globally. We agree that AI will be useful in freeing recruiters from administrative tasks to focus on human interaction and strategies. The integration of AI tools can also improve the candidate experience by providing timely updates and personalized communication, fostering a more engaging and supportive recruitment process. With the streamlining and efficiency potentials AI can offer, it is also important to shift the focus from the old model of scaling, where you would need to add more people. With AI tools evolving fast, firms may no longer need as many people to get the same—or better—results. Efficiency and smart use of tech will define the next wave of growth. It’s Time to Champion the Value of Recruitment DeeDee has always advocated the value and importance of the recruitment profession. Too often, recruiters don’t get credit for the work they do—whether it’s helping someone into a new career, reskilling talent, or supporting growth in client businesses. DeeDee encourages agency leaders to enter awards, tell their stories, and raise standards across the profession. Doing your part means being proud of what you do as a recruiter or recruitment business owner by making others know of the impact you are making. Is there value in doing so? Indeed, this can attract better clients and talent in the long run. DeeDee Doke Bio and Contact Info Long-time editor of Recruiter magazine, DeeDee has more than 20 years of experience as a recruitment/HR specialist journalist and editor. She also has significant international experience as a defence and aviation journalist and in entertainment (theatre, contemporary music) reporting and editing. Originally from Seattle in the US, she has been a proud UK subject/citizen since 2007. DeeDee on LinkedIn Recruiter Magazine website link Recruiter Awards website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

What if discovering your neurodivergent could unlock a deeper sense of purpose—and make your recruitment business more impactful? In this episode, Adam Tobias shares how getting diagnosed with ADHD and autism in his 40s reshaped not only how he works, but why he works. That discovery ignited a new mission: helping organizations remove the hidden barriers that exclude brilliant, underrepresented talent. Adam Tobias is the co-founder of Inventum Group, a purpose-driven recruitment and consulting firm based in London and Johannesburg. With over 25 years in the industry, Adam has built a company that’s as values-led as it is commercially successful. Today, he advises clients ranging from FTSE 100 companies to fast-growth SMEs on how to recruit inclusively and build more resilient teams. Episode Outline and Highlights [02:40] How Adam got into recruiting, leading to his 20-year-old recruitment firm. [07:50] Avoiding ego-based growth: What Adam considers his lessons and learnings in his recruitment journey. [15:04] Key elements to success. [17:55] How finding out about his neurodivergence became a stepping-stone for inclusive consulting. [24:40] Adam’s discovery of his neurodivergence. [34:46] Strategies that help Adam manage ADHD and autism at work. [38:33] Channeling Adam’s advocacy as a differentiator. [45:57] Inventum’s business model. [48:38] The top hiring barriers for underrepresented candidates—and how to fix them. [56:39] Discussion on behaviour, cultures, and values. [59:00] The value of candidate experience. Turning Purpose into a Differentiator Being diagnosed with autism and ADHD past 40, Adam had a renewed perspective on how to help clients be more inclusive in their hiring process. Once he uncovered his neurodivergence, he stopped trying to fit a mold and started building around what actually worked for him, leading with empathy, structure, and a culture where people could just be themselves. This inspired him to develop The Inclusive Recruiter, a CPD-certified training program that’s now core to Inventum’s offering. It’s not just an add-on; it’s embedded into how they hire, train, and work with clients. “So what we're doing now is helping clients fix their hiring processes—not just make placements,” Adam shared. “It’s not about how well someone interviews. It’s about how well they’ll perform over time.” How did this benefit Adam’s recruitment firm? The ROI of Inclusive Hiring Adam believes that inclusive recruitment is more than a moral imperative—it’s a business advantage. Structured, unbiased interviews. Clearer job specs. Candidate experience that makes people want to re-engage. These aren’t just “nice-to-haves”—they improve long-term placement success. They also turned this mission into a consulting arm of the business. Inventum has added new revenue streams while deepening client relationships. Whether it’s through advisory, workshops, or training, Adam’s team is proving that purpose can drive profit. “I think we’ve done well in a tough market because we’ve stayed true to who we are,” he said. “That’s what’s made us resilient.” Top Hiring Barriers for Underrepresented Candidates Adam shared insights on the commonly observed barriers when it comes to underrepresented groups and how they would advise their clients in terms of solutions. Below are outlined common challenges and recommended solutions: Challenges • Limited Outreach & Narrow Channels • Overloaded Job Descriptions • Masculine-Coded Language in Job Ads • Reliance on Outdated Job Descriptions • Unclear Must-Haves vs. Nice-to-Haves • Unstructured Interview Processes • Culture Fit Bias Solutions • Proactive Candidate Engagement • Simplify Job Descriptions • Audit Job Ad Language • Start from Scratch with Job Specs • Ditch the “Desirable” List • Structured Interviews with Scoring • Reduces bias and makes evaluations more objective. • Use Multiple Independent Interviewers • Focus on Values, Not "Culture Fit" • Client Education & Conversations Adam Tobias Bio and Contact Info Adam is the co-founder of Inventum Group, a boutique recruitment and consulting firm focused on building inclusive workplaces. With teams in London and Johannesburg, Inventum partners with companies across finance, marketing, legal, and HR to deliver talent with purpose. Adam is also the creator of The Inclusive Recruiter—a CPD-certified training program—and a passionate advocate for neurodiversity and equity in the workplace. • Adam on LinkedIn• Inventum Group websitePeople and Resources Mentioned • The Inclusive Recruiter (CPD Certified)• Pinnacle Society Connect with Mark Whitby • Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call • Mark on LinkedIn• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby • Mark on Facebook • Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

What if you could swap 100 cold calls a day for content that reaches thousands?That’s exactly what award-winning recruiter Justis Pederson did. In this episode, Justis shares how going digital didn’t just scale his reach—it nearly doubled his revenue.Justis is the President & CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies in Winnipeg, which he has grown from $500K to $1.8M in revenue. His group includes recruitment, media, and real estate, with a recruitment focus on construction and engineering. He's also a member of the Pinnacle Society, an elite collective of top-performing recruiters in North America.Rather than hiring another recruiter, Justis made an unconventional move: he hired a full-time content and social media manager. This decision reshaped how they marketed, grew their brand, and attracted inbound business.🎯 Episode Highlights:[02:57] From door-to-door sales to top recruiter in construction[11:33] Traits that separate average recruiters from great ones[13:19] Shifting from cold calls to digital marketing[26:10] The ROI of hiring a full-time marketing person[31:22] The 3 pillars of strong content: writing, video, design[34:55] How to hire a marketing pro—and what to expect[37:39] Posting content consistently with simple systems[43:18] Building a brand without a big budget[47:30] Transitioning to a retained search model[51:38] Getting business without asking for business[53:02] Justis shares a personal story of resilienceWhy They Switched to Content-First MarketingCold calling limited their reach to 100 people a day. Content marketing allowed them to showcase their expertise to thousands. By posting regularly on LinkedIn, they moved from one-to-one calls to one-to-many digital influence.In 2022, Justis hired Cass—not as another recruiter, but as a dedicated content and marketing lead. They began producing short videos, graphic designs, and thought leadership posts tailored to their niche. The result? Inbound leads started flowing, and revenue nearly doubled in a year.The ROI—and Patience—of Hiring a Marketing Person“When I first hired Cass, we billed around $500K. A year later, that was nearly $1M,” says Justis. But he emphasizes: this wasn’t an overnight win. It took nearly two years of collaboration, trial, and learning to gain traction.He cautions listeners not to expect results in 30, 60, or even 90 days—but to commit to the long game.The Three Content PillarsWritingVideoGraphic DesignWriting forms the foundation of their messaging and underpins both video scripts and visuals. Their content strategy is simple but effective: post four pieces per week, focus on one or two channels, and don’t overthink production quality.“It doesn’t have to be a high-budget effort,” Justis explains. “You can start small and still get results.”About Justis PedersonJustis is an award-winning recruiter and CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies. He specializes in recruitment for the construction and engineering sectors, and complements his business with a media division focused on content and video strategy. He sits on two boards and is a member of the Pinnacle Society.People & Tools Mentioned:Pinnacle Society | Loomly | Monday.comConnect with Justis:LinkedIn | [Pederson Group Website]Connect with Mark Whitby:Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on InstagramIf you’ve been enjoying The Resilient Recruiter, please take two minutes to leave a review. It helps us reach more people and support more recruiters like you!

Brandon Glyck, CEO of Quantum Search Partners, leads a top-ranking recruiting firm known for its innovative approaches. He shares how relentless follow-ups and nurturing relationships can build a sustainable referral stream, even during economic downturns. Brandon reflects on adapting strategies during the 2008 recession and the recent tech downturn, emphasizing a shift towards diverse sectors. He also discusses the importance of maintaining authenticity in business and balancing tech tools with personal connections in recruitment.

After relocating from Dubai to the U.S. with two young children, Karolina Willis found herself having to rebuild her recruitment business from scratch. Facing overwhelming personal and professional challenges, she reached a breaking point—when walking away felt like the only option.But instead of giving up, Karolina doubled down. What followed was a period of six months of explosive growth.In this episode, Karolina shares the mindset shifts, business decisions, and key differentiators that helped her scale Intercare Recruitment into a thriving international healthcare staffing firm. From winning retained contracts to building a remote team and offering full immigration support, Karolina’s story is filled with practical insights and inspiration for recruiters who want to build something global, resilient, and values-led.🎯 Episode Highlights:[01:53] Karolina’s journey from Poland to the UK, Dubai, and the U.S.[07:27] The mindset shift that helped her bounce back after hitting a wall[10:16] Hosting live events to build a pipeline of quality candidates[13:39] Starting over solo—and the early challenges of launching a firm[28:02] Relocating to Florida and facing a pivotal breaking point[37:23] Her U.S. go-to-market strategy and how she built credibility fast[40:34] What helped her win retained business in a competitive market[46:30] Managing and growing a fully remote, international team[51:59] How she identifies and mentors recruiter talent[57:35] What she’d do differently if starting all over againScaling Across Borders with Heart and StrategyKarolina built Intercare Recruitment to specialize in placing top-tier talent in nursing, allied health, and executive healthcare roles. What sets her apart is a blend of deep industry knowledge, personal investment, and standout service.She shares the importance of:Hiring former nurses as recruiters to ensure empathy and insightOffering full immigration support for international candidatesStaying hyper-focused on relationship-building, not just transactionsFrom Survival Mode to Sustainable GrowthKarolina opens up about the emotional toll of moving countries, raising kids, and starting a business from the ground up. But what kept her going was her purpose and a deep belief in service-driven recruiting. Within months of recommitting to the business, she began to see results—securing retained contracts, expanding into new regions, and building a global team.Her story is a masterclass in:Personal resilienceStrategic positioningBuilding credibility in a new marketLeading with empathy and authenticity👤 About Karolina WillisKarolina is the CEO and Founder of Intercare Recruitment, with 19 years of experience in global healthcare recruiting. She launched Intercare in 2011 and has placed top healthcare professionals across the UK, Middle East, and U.S. She’s known for her hands-on leadership, mentorship, and ability to scale teams across borders.She holds a Bachelor’s in Human Resources Management, is PHR-certified, and is based in Greenville, South Carolina, where she’s also a proud mom to two daughters.🔗 Connect with Karolina:LinkedIn: Karolina WillisWebsite: Intercare Recruitment🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:LinkedIn: Mark WhitbyInstagram: @RecruitmentCoachTwitter: @MarkWhitbyFacebook: Mark Whitby🎁 Free Resource:Book your FREE 30-minute strategy call👍 Enjoying the show?Leave a review to help more recruiters discover The Resilient Recruiter.

Focus is a superpower every recruiter needs, especially in a harsh market with tough competition. How do you keep yourself organized and focused despite multiple expectations that you have to deliver to your clients, candidates, and if you are a business owner, to your team?Jenny shares the Jenny Diaz Day Plan and how it helps her stay organized and focused every day. She also shares how basic daily tasks help her business navigate this tough market while navigating growth and expansion.Jenny Diaz entered recruiting in 2015. In late 2021, she, Ryan, and another former colleague, James, founded Apex Recruitment Group, a firm that specializes in construction management recruitment throughout DC, Virginia, and the Carolinas. While Jenny has worked in various industries, she has focused on construction management for the last several years. Through her recruitment career, Jenny has had the opportunity to participate in relevant non-profits that make the tough days in recruitment easier. She is currently the Vice President of one such organization, Career Confidence.Episode Outline and Highlights03:31 How Jenny got into recruiting from studying Hebrew, traveling, car washing, and working on a dude ranch.12:29 Discussion on “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.”17:25 Launching Apex Recruitment Group and overcoming initial hurdles.23:19 The added value of meeting people in person.27:39 What is it like being married to your business partner?30:09 Keys to getting her first million.[33:10] Going through challenges and things they would have done differently.[43:34] Jenny shares their growth plans.[48:03] Zooming in on Apex’s business culture.[54:37] Business development and client acquisition in a tough market.Jenny’s Day Planning ProcessFocus is the super power that recruiters need for sure. Successful business owners and recruiters have a daily hack on how to organize their to do’s and make the most of their days. Jenny is no different, and she gladly shared the “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.” “So I have this Microsoft Word doc… I print it out, I take a pencil because the day will change, and I write down whatever's on my Microsoft calendar. I have a list of follow-ups that I'm people I'm going to follow up with. That's usually like five to 30 people depending. I have my three main goals, I have my two jobs. I'm going to work that day if I get it. I have things I'm grateful for, that I've learned.”To summarize her methodology, here are the takeaways:Jenny meticulously plans each day using a printed Microsoft Word document with hourly blocksShe writes her plan in pencil to allow for adjustments throughout the dayHer day plan includes follow-ups, main goals, jobs to work, things she's grateful for, and long-term goalsWriting plans physically rather than digitally creates a stronger commitmentThe planning process helps combat distractions and provides focusJenny maintains this day-planning routine for approximately 90% of her workdaysDo you have a similar approach to being focused and organized?Jenny Diaz Bio and Contact InfoJenny has partnered with firms of all sizes to successfully recruit entry-level professionals to C-level executives. Since 2017, she has focused on engaging construction management talent in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast. She stumbled into recruitment through seemingly unrelated experiences that began with working and studying in Russia and Israel and then ended on a dude ranch outside of Yellowstone. She has learned that the people you meet along the way are anything but chance encounters.Jenny on LinkedInApex Recruitment Group website linkPeople and Resources MentionedGuerrilla Marketing for Job Hunters 3.0 by David PerryConnect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedIn, Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitbyMark on FacebookMark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient RecruiterIf you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

What separates top billers from everyone else in recruitment?In this episode, DG Recruit co-founders Dandan Zhu and Grace Marlin reveal the strategies they’ve seen consistently drive high performance across the industry. Their rec-to-rec agency gives them unique insight into what elite recruiters do differently—and how you can replicate it.Dandan and Grace share three core themes that make or break recruiters today:Maintaining a deep, diverse client pipeline beyond a few accountsMaking strategic relationship investments with long-term ROIPerfecting your MPC outreach to grab hiring managers' attention fastWith Dandan’s experience as a top-producing recruiter who achieved financial independence by 28 and Grace’s 6.5 years helping launch and elevate recruitment careers, this episode is packed with field-tested insights for scaling your billings and building long-term success in agency recruitment.🎯 Episode Highlights:[01:28] How Dandan and Grace began working together[04:00] Market trends in the recruitment space[06:40] What top billers do consistently[15:06] Why “thinking big” leads to big returns[20:37] The “Golden Loop” approach to BD and retention[27:26] Blueprint for an effective MPC strategy[33:30] Adapting to changing markets and technology[37:22] Learning more through DG Recruit’s platformsWhy Top Billers Never Stop Building Client PipelinesMany recruiters became complacent with just a few accounts. But when the market shifted, they were left scrambling. Top billers consistently build relationships using webinars, panels, and niche content.Dandan emphasizes, “All the playbook is there—but who’s actually running the plays?” Grace adds that success often comes from “who’s willing to go one or two steps deeper” and invest months into client relationships before seeing ROI.The ROI of Relationship-Driven BDFrom rooftop events to curated gatherings like pottery painting, Grace and Dandan invest in creative, niche-specific client events. These efforts may take years to pay off, but they create stronger trust, brand awareness, and higher placement odds.Grace points out how few recruiters take the time to do even a couple of things differently—and that’s the opportunity. This relationship-first approach results in client loyalty and referrals that competitors miss.MPC Strategy: Sell Your Talent, Not Your AgencyToo many recruiters waste the first few seconds of outreach on introductions. Dandan’s advice? Lead with your candidate. Immediately.Hiring managers don’t care about your agency—they care about solving urgent problems. Skip the small talk, craft a compelling candidate profile, and confidently deliver value. That’s how top recruiters cut through the noise.👤 About Dandan ZhuDandan is the Founder of DG Recruit, a top rec-to-rec firm, and the Agency Recruitment Academy. She achieved financial independence by 28 and now helps senior producers and leaders scale their success. She’s also the author of Agency Recruitment 101 and host of the DG Recruit Podcast.🔗 Connect with Dandan:LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter: @dandanzhudg👤 About Grace MarlinGrace is Co-Founder of DG Recruit and Recruiter Prep. She’s helped shape the careers of top-performing agency recruiters and is passionate about the autonomy and upside of agency life. She co-created an intro course to help new recruiters break in successfully.🔗 Connect with Grace:LinkedIn | DG Recruit website | DG Recruit Podcast | Facebook | YouTube📚 Mentioned in This Episode:Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion – Robert Cialdini🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter: @MarkWhitby

In this engaging conversation, Leo Hewett, Founder of Core3, shares his inspiring journey of building an ethical recruitment firm focused on finance and accounting. He discusses the influence of his mother in shaping his commitment to community impact. Leo reveals how purpose-driven initiatives attract top talent and foster team dynamics. He also offers insights on nurturing past professional relationships and the importance of a personal brand on LinkedIn. The discussion highlights challenges faced during growth and strategies to overcome them while maintaining a strong company culture.

What if your next training session became the highlight of your recruiters' week rather than just another calendar obligation? We explore how innovative recruitment leaders transform traditional onboarding into engaging experiences that drive performance and retention.In this episode, a tenured recruiter and recruitment business owner shares his experience in training hundreds of recruiters in this career. For David, “training and developing people is fun!”David Bloxham is the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David is passionate about connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has expanded globally with a team of 100 consultants and 7 offices including London, Reading, Amsterdam, Berlin, Dublin, Orlando and Philadelphia. Episode Outline and Highlights[02:12] How did David get started in recruiting?[04:30] Has productivity in recruitment remaining relatively constant over time?[13:08] Effective and efficient team structure to increase productivity.[20:23] Hiring and developing hundreds of people over the years, what key training elements David wishes to share?[36:05] David and his team use tools and technology for reports and gamifying objectives.[40:27] Core focus of recruiters despite technological advances: telephone first and networking.[49:31] Discussion on David’s Management Buyout (MBO) experience and learnings.[56:53] Should your recruitment firm get an investment from a Private Equity? Below are some of the takeaways he shared on this topic:Passion for Teaching – He genuinely enjoys training people, seeing them "get it," and watching their progress. His enthusiasm makes training engaging and impactful.Gamification and Fun—He introduces friendly competitions, small challenges (like mentioning random topics in calls), and a team environment that keeps training lively and engaging.Hands-On Learning – He believes in learning by doing, allowing trainees to make calls early, experience rejection, and develop resilience.Focus on Fundamentals – Despite industry changes, he emphasizes that the core of recruitment remains the same: connecting clients and candidates.Creating a Supportive Environment – He fosters a collaborative setting where trainees can share wins, struggles, and experiences.Emphasizing Resilience – He prepares recruiters for the challenges of the job, especially handling rejection and navigating modern recruitment complexities.Adapting Training to Modern Challenges – He acknowledges changes in recruitment (e.g., difficulty reaching candidates, compliance hurdles) and tailors training to address these new realities.David Bloxham Bio and Contact InfoDavid Bloxham is a seasoned recruitment professional and the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David has a passion for connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has grown significantly on a global scale, helping clients to "Employ the Future to Create it." David's expertise in the recruitment industry and his dedication to fostering strong client relationships have made him a respected figure in the field. David on LinkedInGCS Tech Talent website linkGCS Connect Leaders podcastnGAGE talent website link People and Resources Mentioned LinkedIn RecruiterLushaCrunchbaseDaxtraPowerBI Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedInMark on Twitter: @MarkWhitbyMark on FacebookMark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. 

Melanie De Beer, Director of Full Circle Selection, has over 25 years of experience in recruitment and specializes in finance and engineering. She shares her transformative journey from top recruiter to strategic leader, highlighting the crucial mindset shift needed to scale her business. The discussion focuses on effective delegation, increasing pricing for quality, and building a self-sustaining team. Melanie emphasizes the importance of leadership, continuous improvement in recruitment practices, and empowering others to foster growth and success.