The Resilient Recruiter

Your recruiting clients are increasingly aware of the commercial benefits of recruiting a diverse workforce. That means they will soon expect and require their recruitment partners to be capable of delivering a diverse shortlist. Merely claiming to be a champion of D&I isn’t enough -- clients want to see evidence that you have a process in place to deliver diverse talent. The recruiters who are able to demonstrate this capability will differentiate themselves in the marketplace and steal a march on their competitors. To discuss how recruiters can achieve this, I invited entrepreneur Helen McGuire to join me on The Resilient Recruiter podcast. Helen is the CEO and Co-Founder of Diversely.io, an end-to-end hiring platform that uses tech to reduce bias in the hiring process for businesses. As an award-winning entrepreneur in the diversity space, she founded the first women’s careers platform in the Middle East – Hopscotch – in 2016, which grew to a worldwide community of over 80,000 working with businesses like Facebook, Mastercard and Nestle, and expanding to Singapore in 2018. Helen began her career in London, achieving her dream role at BBC Radio 1 in her early twenties producing award-winning shows for the likes of John Peel, Mary Anne Hobbs and Gilles Peterson. Concurrently, Helen presented her own monthly radio programme - Join The-Dots - airing in over 15 countries globally, DJ’d and wrote for top music publications and travelled the world interviewing artists. Helen was the first female resident DJ at Club 360 in Dubai and still occasionally DJ’s to this day. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:00] Helen shares how they were awarded HRM Asia’s Top 3 Tech Start-Ups 2020. [4:15] How to check your diversity score online. [6:00] Approaching the diversity space from a technology perspective. [12:08] Unconscious bias - why should we care?  [14:51] Sourcing - how to attract more candidates by changing your language [19:24] How Helen turned a massive idea into a product. [25:06] Helen shares the process of getting funding for her business  [32:18] Helen reveals by far the biggest challenge that she had to overcome. [40:15] Juggling your tasks - starting a business and having a work-life balance. Approaching the Diversity Space - from a Technology Point of View Working in the diversity space for about six years, Helen shared what drove her passion. When she had her first baby in 2014, she very quickly realized that a lot of women (colleagues, friends) were frustrated and had to end their career - for the reason that employers could not think a little more outside the box and offer flexible working schedules to their tenured female staff members.  This moved her to create an award-winning women's careers platform - Hopscotch. The initial aim was to find women more flexibility in their careers but ended up being helpful to women of all professions. Growing rapidly, the platform gained around 80,000 in their network! With this initiative, Helen had three realizations: Diversity around women - not everybody was open to thinking about things differently The impact of unconscious bias - not only women are affected Despite the reach, she felt that she is only making a very minimal impact This lead Helen to look for a deeper and wide-ranging solution to address the above problem. Diversity in Sourcing - Adapting your Language Here is something really interesting. Did you know that during sourcing, changing your language can attract 70% more diverse candidates and twice as many candidates with the skillset that you’re looking for? Here is how Helen explained it: “Think about it from a day to day perspective. If you are speaking to your grandma, if you are speaking to a child, if you are speaking to your boss, if you are speaking to your friends, you don’t use the same language right? You don’t talk to them in exactly the same way. You use language that they understand, that helps you to have a conversation with them, that helps you to have something in common with them. The same is true when you’re sourcing.” Listen to what else she said to support this fantastic concept and how to adapt your language to your potential candidates. Helen McGuire Bio and Contact Info Helen McGuire is the CEO and Co-Founder of Diversely.io, an end-to-end hiring platform that uses tech to reduce bias in the hiring process for businesses. To scale the impact of her work Helen joined the renowned tech start-up accelerator programme, Antler, in January 2020 and the idea for Diversely was born. Joining forces with her Diversely co-founder and CPO, Hayley Bakker, in April of the same year, the vision for the company is to reduce workplace bias for all those from under-represented groups - not just women – by creating a scalable, global solution through the use of AI-driven tech. The company successfully completed its pre-seed round in November of 2020 and has a five-strong team working to deliver online solutions for its clients in beta, with a full launch expected in Q2 2021. Helen’s focus is on the marketing, content and sales side of the business and she regularly speaks globally on the topics of diversity, equality and inclusion. Helen is also a mother of three young children - Clementine (6), Arlo (4) and Iris (2) and lives with her husband, Justin, and their English bulldog, Percy, in Singapore. She is a passionate speaker, writer and photographer, a proud part-time vegan and loves fashion, horses and travel. Helen on LinkedIn Diversely website link People and Resources Mentioned Justine McGuire on LinkedIn Nikki Dallas on LinkedIn Hayley Bakker on LinkedIn Jonathan Coxon on LinkedIn Alex Elliot on LinkedIn Antler website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #42 Childhood Friends Who Are Building a Global Recruitment Empire with Offices in 10 Countries, with Dan Matthews and Justin McGuire TRR # 2 Setting Up A Recruitment Business For Scale with Jonathan Coxon and Alex Elliot Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve ever faced major challenges, disappointments or setbacks in your recruitment career, you’ll really relate to and enjoy my interview with Will Bourne. Will is the founder of Rekall Consulting, a recruiting firm based in Birmingham specializing in talent acquisition outsourcing for startup and scaleup technology companies. He is a former competitive martial artist, he has been in the recruiting industry for 10 years and recently launched his own business. He’s the author of a new book, “The Fight for Your Life.” In this conversation, Will is totally open and honest about his struggle with mental health issues. Although it’s slowly getting better, the recruitment industry's competitive culture hasn’t always been conducive to mental health and wellbeing.  To hear more about this very important topic, listen in as Will reveals how the biggest fight of his life wasn’t in the dojo or in the ring - it was with depression and anxiety.  He hopes that by sharing his personal experience, it might help at least one person.  Maybe that person is you? Episode Outline and Highlights [1:20] Will’s amazing story - from quitting school to starting a technology recruitment business. [12:30] Competitive martial arts and its crossover with recruiting. [26:14] Will opens up about mental health - from being a successful top-biller to having a mental breakdown and then rebuilding his physical and mental health. [30:36] Will talks about his book, “The Fight for Your Life” [38:00] How modifying your self-talk and being aware of the words you use habitually can help your mental health. [45:00] Will discusses his work with the mental health charity, Mind.org. [47:09] Is the recruiting industry’s culture prone to mental health issues? [52:10] Will’s business model and hitting his 12-month goal within 90 days From Leaving School Early to Succeeding in Recruitment Interesting is an understatement to discuss Will’s story on how he got to his current recruitment career path. Will left school early, feeling that the traditional education system wasn’t for him. His first job was washing cars. Motivated by his brother, he went back to college and completed his high-school education and enrolled in university. At the time that he was also competing in martial arts - he still felt that university life was not for him and left after a year. He then landed a job at a bank, from a telesales position to being promoted to a management role. He then left a very secure position with the bank to pursue a recruitment career, starting back at the bottom as a candidate sourcer.  Was all the risk he took to walk away from everything and re-start his career worth it at that point? What were the mistakes he made and what did he learn from them?  A Healthy Discussion on Mental Health “I never really gave mental health a second thought… it wasn’t even on my radar. One of the biggest things I’ve learned is that nobody’s safe from it… mental health is still one of the most sensitive things that you can try and protect.” Recalling his experience, Will shares the three separate life events that knocked him sideways and in combination contributed to his mental health crisis.  Firstly, the breakdown of a relationship.  Secondly,  a big setback financially.  Finally, the death of his stepdad, which was completely unexpected. All of it just culminated and he fell into a deep depression. He also added, “I didn’t understand it for quite a while. Everybody was saying to me, ‘just snap out of it’, ‘what’s wrong with you...’ I didn’t know what was going on and I went to speak to the doctor, I filled out a questionnaire which was like 10 questions. And after that questionnaire, it was a case of ‘anxiety depression.’” Back then, Will felt that there was not much great mental health care available. This is why he believes it is important to talk about this topic and make it a lot more accessible and have people talk about it openly. This moved Will to write a book, “The Fight for Your Life”. Hear Will talk about how he came about writing this book and see the link below on where you can get it. Mind Charity Will supports the mental health charity, Mind. He does consultation and supports helping organizations through seminars in creating a better mental health environment in the workplace. Will said, “I learned a lot from that. What you get back from volunteering, I can’t recommend enough to anybody listening, if you got time and if you got the mental capacity to volunteer on something, what you get out of it is insurmountable.” If you want to know more about this organization, you may refer to the link in the below section. Will Bourne Bio and Contact Info Will started his journey in recruitment after an injury put a stop to his developing career in competitive martial arts. Since then Will has been a top biller, top-performing team manager, has launched as a funded startup, been the MD of one of the UK's biggest fintech recruitment companies and more recently Will has decided to do the startup journey all over again, this time with his own money, during a pandemic. Not to mention during the above process having a mental breakdown, being diagnosed and medicated for anxiety depression but ultimately bouncing back to the man you hear speaking today. Depression anxiety and medication-free, and missing some of his ribs... Will on LinkedIn Rekall Consulting website link Rekall Consulting on Facebook Rekall Consulting on Youtube Rekall Consulting on Instagram People and Resources Mentioned The Fight For Your Life (The Fight Mentality Series Book 1) Mind Charity website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

The classic contingency recruitment model is outdated and wide open for disruption. Not only is the traditional multi-agency approach to recruitment grossly inefficient but it’s often a deeply unsatisfying experience for all parties, including the recruiter, the client and the candidates. This is especially true for fast-growing technology companies who are scaling rapidly and running into challenges with talent acquisition. In this episode, my special guest Doeke Geertsma explains how he identified a gap in the tech recruiting space and created an innovative solution to meet the demands of this market. Doeke is the founder and CEO of WeAreKeen, based in Amsterdam with clients throughout Europe. WeAreKeen provides RPO services for fast-scaling technology companies. Specifically, they provide highly skilled tech recruiters who are embedded within the client’s team on a subscription basis. Episode Outline and Highlights [3:30] Doeke explains WeAreKeen’s business model and how it started. [9:23] An existing market-gap that led to launching a ‘talent-embedded acquisition’ business model. [17:11] Hear about Keen Academy and how it creates a talent pool of tech recruiters for WeAreKeen. [23:39] Doeke shares the roadblocks and challenges when launching his business. [32:20] WeAreKeen’ strategy for adding value to the tech recruiter community and investing for the long term. [42:30] A walkthrough WeAreKeen’s approach on business development. [50:30] Discussion on sales touchpoints and continuous nurturing of relationships. [54:16] Doeke’s biggest learning - what would be done differently if given a second chance?

When the NBA shut down due to the Coronavirus on March 11, 2020, Joe Rice knew immediately that his hospitality search firm, Joseph David International, would soon be in serious trouble. He also knew that he wasn’t going down without a fight! In this episode, listen into my conversation with Joe as he describes how they immediately pivoted to a brand new market sector and finished out the year on their best-ever quarterly performance.  Joe’s story is highly relevant and relatable, and he doesn’t hold back. Listen in to discover his biggest lessons and takeaways that can be applied by any recruitment business owner who aspires to build (or rebuild) a 7-figure firm. Episode Outline and Highlights [3:05] Joe shares his first experience in the Pinnacle Society and his ‘intense’ encounter with Jordan Rayboy. [6:10] A critical and timely pivot - listen to how Joe dealt with the pandemic. [12:30] Joe shared the steps he took when re-starting his business and our discussion about building your database. [20:20] Shifting from solo full desk production to assuming the CEO role - Joe’s shares his transition. [22:40] “Barbaric, caveman-like recruiting” and going back to the fundamentals of good old-fashioned hard work. [29:30] Operating in faith, listen to Joe’s encouraging realizations when his company underwent trying times. [38:55] The mindset and mentality of a top producer. [44:36] What 2021 looks like for JDI. [48:41] Joe talks about the MogulRecruiter platform. A Difficult but Necessary Pivot Joe started his recruitment career around 2005 and with a core focus on the hospitality industry. With the implementation of lockdowns and mobility restrictions, hospitality is one of the most impacted industries during the pandemic. How was Joe able to deal with this sudden change? He started “I didn’t go full time recruiting until ‘06 but it was all hospitality then… I worked for hospitality from that point, until last year. That is all I ever did.” A critical moment hit him around February 2020 when he attended a conference called ALIS (American Lodging Investment Summit) and CEO Chris Cahill of Accor Hotel connected with him. In a call, he was told by Chris,  “Joe, I can’t believe nobody’s paying attention to this thing… the coronavirus… Joe, it’s unreal to me, nobody is paying attention. The hotel industry is not paying attention. No one. And it’s coming, it is coming I promise.” This got Joe asking around and realized not many people he knew at that time was aware of what was coming.  This realization helped to prepare Joe and his team. A point came when he dropped everything in hospitality and pivoted to healthcare. His actions were timely and it proved valuable when clients from the hotel industry started telling them that their services were no longer needed. “Barbaric, Caveman-like Recruiting” and Going Back to the Fundamentals Joe and I had a discussion about the definition of ‘hard work’ in a recruiter’s field. Transitioning from hiring hospitality professionals to hiring healthcare professionals, what Joe realized is the importance of hard work and going back to the fundamentals. This is how he revealed his realizations, “I get to have a very stark contrast when I did jump back into full desk eventually. This business hasn’t really changed that much. It’s eerie, that it is one of the few businesses that has not really innovated much. They tried to innovate, but they really haven't. And the way that we made this turn, was good old-fashioned hard work. There was nothing scientific or magical beyond getting the data and at that point, it was phone calls, email, and activity.” Joe added, “It was just, barbaric, caveman-like recruiting.” A typical day for Joe was making 70 phone calls to try to get business and sending out email campaigns.  A lot may have forgotten the fundamentals of recruitment - persistence, hustle and grind. Hear how this approach worked out for Joe. A Change in Paradigm and Valuable Learnings Undergoing trying times during this pandemic, hear Joe reveal his valuable learnings and realizations. Some of them are: The importance of persistence and hard work Having the awareness of how blessed you really are.  The importance of a team. Trust me, you will want to hear it from Joe. His firsthand experience is definitely relatable to a lot of recruiters who have been adversely affected by the pandemic. Joe Rice Bio and Contact Info Joe is a Managing Partner and Founder of Joseph David International (JDI), twice recognized by Forbes as one of the best executive recruiting firms in America. He is also a partner in MogulRecruiter, a technology platform that provides recruiting, booking and talent solutions for service leaders. His recruiting career started in 2005 with Snelling Hospitality with a specialty in executive search, consulting, talent acquisition, and organizational leadership. Joe on LinkedIn Joseph David International (JDI) website link  JDI on Facebook JDI on Twitter @JDIsearch JDI on Instagram MogulRecruiter website link People and Resources Mentioned Michael Talarico on LinkedIn Jordan Rayboy on Linkedin Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn Interseller - email campaign tool website link Pinnacle Society website link Good To Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't by Jim Collins Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy TRR#35 Inner Grit: The Traits of a Big Biller, with Jeremy Sisemore Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

The classic contingency recruitment model is outdated and wide open for disruption.  Not only is the traditional multi-agency approach to recruitment grossly inefficient but it’s often a deeply unsatisfying experience for all parties, including the recruiter, the client and the candidates.   This is especially true for fast-growing technology companies who are scaling rapidly and running into challenges with talent acquisition. In this episode, my special guest Doeke Geertsma explains how he identified a gap in the tech recruiting space and created an innovative solution to meet the demands of this market. Doeke is the founder and CEO of WeAreKeen, based in Amsterdam with clients throughout Europe. WeAreKeen provides RPO services for fast-scaling technology companies. Specifically, they provide highly skilled tech recruiters who are embedded within the client’s team on a subscription basis.   Episode Outline and Highlights [3:30] Doeke explains WeAreKeen’s business model and how it started. [9:23] An existing market-gap that led to launching a ‘talent-embedded acquisition’ business model. [17:11] Hear about Keen Academy and how it creates a talent pool of tech recruiters for WeAreKeen. [23:39] Doeke shares the roadblocks and challenges when launching his business.  [32:20] WeAreKeen’ strategy for adding value to the tech recruiter community and investing for the long term. [42:30] A walkthrough WeAreKeen’s approach to business development. [50:30] Discussion on sales touchpoints and continuous nurturing of relationships.  [54:16] Doeke’s biggest learning - what would be done differently if given a second chance? WeAreKeen’s Embedded Talent Acquisition Business Model When offered an opportunity to work in Berlin, Doeke saw the increasing demand for tech recruiters. He saw a trend - tech companies picking up funding and embarking on a massive growth program only to run into major challenges.  As Doeke stated, “And you see them struggling and the result of the struggle is always the same. They started looking for people, they weren’t there. They will start hooking up agencies, of course, there were agencies, but that didn’t solve the issue because then they start working with let’s say 5 or 10 different agencies and then the amount of work will not necessarily decrease.” This observation inspired Doeke to launch his own business to solve this specific challenge he heard over and over from founders of tech companies. From a high-level perspective, WeAreKeen’s business model can be summarized as: Adding extra specialized capacity to the client’s recruitment team  Subscription type business model: projects would run within 6-18 months They specialize in tech recruiters - meeting the demands of clients scaling very rapidly Hear in detail Doeke’s strategy on adding value and meeting client’s end-to-end recruitment needs - from designing recruitment strategies, branding, and hiring plans. Adding Value to the Tech-Recruiter Community  Despite the pandemic, Doeke’s company was able to further add value to the tech recruitment community through webinar series, snackable contents, and masterclasses which are mostly offered for free. This continuous platform for learning and education aims to reach tech professionals and recruiters. Although there is no immediate drastic monetary value, this helps WeAreKeen to establish brand equity and massively elevates their standing and reputation in the market place.  Doeke believes that being authentic is most important in providing this type of service. As he said, “I really am a strong believer in the networking thing and being transparent and adding value… I think what to me is really important, it might sound a bit cliche, but there is a certain type of authenticity about it I think that people feel and like.”  He also added, “This may not give us the most growth in the short term, but in the long term I am a firm believer that this will bring us out on top basically because we like what we do and… we are in it to do an amazing job. If we see an opportunity to add value besides closing a deal then we’ll do it anyway because it will bring us more in the long run, right?” Sheltersuit Doeke is an avid supporter of Sheltersuit, a non-profit that designs and manufactures multifunctional products that provide immediate shelter to people experiencing homelessness. If you wish to donate and support, you may refer to the link below. Doeke Geertsma Bio and Contact Info Before starting as an entrepreneur Doeke had been active in the staffing industry for more than a decade with several international leadership roles. In his last position, Doeke helped set-up a new entity in Germany. It was in this role Doeke fell in love with Berlin and the technology scene. This was also the place where the business idea for WeAreKeen came to be. Providing RPO services to fast scaling technology companies and addressing the gap for well-trained tech recruiters. Doeke on LinkedIn WeAreKeen website link WeAreKeen on Facebook WeAreKeen on Instagram WeAreKeen on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Sheltersuit website link Adriaan Kolff on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Do you want to build a recruitment business that operates without your day to day involvement and maybe even sell it someday? If so, you’ll really enjoy my interview with Joel Slenning.   Joel is the President of Innova People, a healthcare and IT staffing agency based in Oregon. Prior to that, Joel was the founder and CEO of Icon Medical Network, a locum tenens provider which he scaled to £16,000,000 before selling in 2019.  Most recruitment firms are “lifestyle” businesses run by owner-operators. Few recruitment businesses ever grow beyond 5-10 people, and fewer still give the owner the potential for an exit. There is a simple reason for that - scaling up your staffing and recruiting is extremely challenging. In this episode, Joel breaks down exactly how he was able to rapidly scale his recruitment business and gives detailed advice on how to structure the firm, bring the right people on board at the right time, and set them up for success.   Episode Outline and Highlights [4:30] Starting a recruitment firm during the recession - hear Joel’s journey of “going out on his own in the worst market possible”  [9:35] What Joel is trying to achieve - and why [12:30] Joel describes the “scary” first 12 months of starting the business  [16:30] How hiring a virtual assistant can help you increase productivity [18:35] When to make your first or second hire - listen to Joel’s revenue-based “12 months” rule and other hiring principles when scaling [27:22] How to use metrics to make sure everyone is on the right track [36:10] Reality Check: So you want to scale your recruiting business? Here’s what you should expect…  [44:55] The importance of closely tracking your ‘first-time interviews” [47:10] Key roles and responsibilities you have to bring in so you can free up yourself and scale your business Building a Recruitment Firm During the Recession Joel is not only a successful recruiter, but he is also a successful firm founder who built a scalable business model. It started around about the time of the last big recession. Not the best time to start a firm, and as he said, “For some reason, I had this crazy notion that I needed to go out on my own in the worst market possible.” Some of the business philosophies he mentioned are the following: Lay the foundation - have specific values for your company. Surround your recruiters with tools to make their job easier for them to focus on deal-making. Surround your talents with other talented people. Replicate this business model to different disciplines in healthcare. Setting the Metrics for Successful Hires When I asked Joel about the hiring metrics that he used to allow him to know that they’ve hired someone on the right track, he admitted that it was not easy at first and they also made mistakes. As Joel puts it, “Early on, we totally screwed it up, you know, 10 times over.” One question he had to solve was, how can you measure the contribution of someone who is not making placements? He realized key metrics - key components of the business that were being done. Some of the key pointers that Joel shared when setting the metrics are as follows: Set a number of calls/emails a day Set a number of people that they can connect with Set a number of jobs that they can pitch (hear the why and the how of this metric) On the above, an excellent example that Joel stated was setting a minimum of 45 outbound calls a day, resulting in at least 2 to 3 connections where they are pitching, typically resulting in 1 submission. Setting the metric is just the beginning, hear the rest from Joel on the specifics on how this system is being applied and the results it produced. Joel Slenning Bio and Contact Info Joel is a talent acquisition expert, talent strategist, tech investor, and tech startup guru based in Portland, Oregon. With a recruitment career spanning for more than 20 years, Joel has always been a consistent top performer and an award-winning billing manager. He is the president of INNOVA People, a Human Resources Solutions agency that utilizes AI platforms to solve complex HR problems mainly focused on healthcare and information technology. Joel on LinkedIn Email address: joel@innovapeople.com Innova People website link Innova People on Facebook People and Resources Mentioned Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Recruiters, are you prepared for the threats and opportunities that will affect our industry as we enter the early stages of a fourth industrial revolution, characterized by the rise of robots and Artificial Intelligence?   As the trend towards automation gathers pace, there will be seismic shifts in the global labor market.  Many jobs will disappear completely while entirely new types of jobs will be created.   How will these changes affect you as a recruiter or recruitment business owner?   To help answer this question, I asked Jeff Wald, best-selling author of The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations, to share his insights with listeners of my podcast. Jeff is an angel investor and startup advisor, having built and sold multiple technology companies.  He was the founder of WorkMarket, an enterprise software platform that enables companies to manage their freelancers which he sold to ADP in 2018. He is also the founder of Spinback which he sold to salesforce.com. Jeff frequently speaks at conferences and in media on the future of work. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:48] How Jeff got into the field of the work market and on-demand labour. [4:11] Jeff shares the first business failure that bankrupted him. Listen to his learnings from this experience. [11:25] Hear an insightful discussion on the future of work and the fourth industrial revolution. [18:24] Post-pandemic near and long term effects. [25:56] Jeff elaborates more on the fourth industrial revolution - will tech eventually replace the majority of workforce functions? Hear the numbers. [38:00] Economic and social dislocation and its impact on the fourth industrial revolution. [40:15] The future of On-Demand Labour. [45:00] Jeff reveals why he wrote his bestselling book, the End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations. [53:00] How Jeff’s Tony-Award winning production fits into his career. A Firm Believer of the Growth Mindset In our conversation, Jeff shared one of the most significant backstories in his career: a business failure that bankrupted him to his last dollar. As you listen to the details, you will also feel Jeff’s frustration. Despite having beautiful concepts and business plans, the fallout was caused by stakeholders not getting along. It was really difficult to see the learnings while you are in the midst of the storm. As he said, “I’m a huge believer in the growth mindset… this is a learning experience, it’s tough to see when you’re in it… Everybody was saying, ‘oh you’re gonna look back at this and think it’s so great’ and I was like, ‘Ah, shut up! I don’t want to hear that.’ Because you don’t want to hear it at the time but it is certainly true.” A lot of recruiters and recruitment business owners might have experienced the same since last year because of the challenges brought about by the pandemic. If Jeff could give any advice to struggling recruiters, what would it be? Below are the highlights: Failure is critical to learning. Jeff said, “If you’re gonna do three startups and one of them has to fail and bankrupt you, have it be the first.” Be data-driven but remember that not everything is not within your control. The biggest variable that will determine your success is you. Your ability to push through and be resilient is the most important variable. There are times that the most intelligent thing to do is to fold it up. The Future of the Work Market Given the current situation and that we are in the early stages of what many are calling ‘fourth industrial revolution (robots and AI)’, what predictions can Jeff make about the future of work? He gave really interesting and insightful inputs. “I will say this, history tends to rhyme…” is how he started his response. A valid point he raised: it is best to look at how we reacted to the first three industrial revolutions to see how society might react to the fourth revolution.  For the past three industrial revolutions (mechanization, electrification, computerization) this is what was seen: In the beginning, people started to “freak out” and were fearful of losing jobs In the middle, job losses, economic and social disruptions occur, but at the same time, lower cost of production and greater output happens as well as an increase in the number of jobs. In the end, there are more jobs, higher standards of living, and people that work fewer hours. Jeff concludes, “And so as we look at the fourth… I am confident that there will be many differences in this industrial revolution. It will happen quicker, it will be more global, productivity increases might actually be greater, I am very confident that we will see higher standards of living, more jobs, and people working fewer hours.”  Jeff Wald Bio and Contact Info Jeff is a serial entrepreneur,  Board Member, Best Selling Author, Keynote speaker and investor.  Jeff’s most recent company, Work Market, an enterprise software platform that enables companies to manage freelancers was acquired by ADP in 2018. Jeff has founded several other technology companies, including Spinback, a social sharing platform (eventually purchased by salesforce.com). He began his career in finance, serving as Managing Director at activist hedge fund Barington Capital Group, a Vice President at venture capital firm GlenRock and various roles in the M&A Group at JP Morgan.  Jeff has served on numerous public and private Boards of Directors including Steel Connect (NASDAQ: STCN), Costar Technologies (OTC: CSTI) and venture-backed TransfrVR.   Jeff serves as an adviser to several companies and entities including the X-Prize’s Rapid Reskilling Initiative. Jeff is the author of the #1 Amazon Best Seller, The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations and The Birthday Rules: A Fun and Flexible Framework for Raising Children in a Technology Enabled World.  Jeff frequently speaks at conferences and in media on startups and the future of work. He was named several times as one of the 100 Most Influential People in Staffing by the Staffing Industry Analysts.  He is a producer of the Tony Award-winning Best Musical, A Gentleman’s Guide to Love and Murder and the full-length feature film, Inez & Doug & Kira, which won Best Picture at several film festivals. Jeff formerly served as an officer in the Auxiliary Unit of the New York Police Department.  Jeff holds an MBA from Harvard University and an MS and BS from Cornell University Jeff on LinkedIn Jeff’s website link Jeff on Twitter @jeffreywald WorkMarket website link People and Resources Mentioned The End of Jobs, by Jeff Wald Abid Hamid on LinkedIn James Caan on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an “Exit-able” Recruitment Business, with Abid Hamid Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

If you’re tired of being treated as a “vendor” and want to forge true partnerships with your clients, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. Many recruiters would like to shift from a transactional business model to a more consultative, value added one.  The challenge is that both the recruiter and the client are constrained by old patterns -- outdated ways of thinking and doing things.  They recognize their recruitment process is incredibly inefficient but they don’t know how else to do it.   Listen in to my fascinating interview with Steven Street about how he’s disrupting the ways recruitment services are traditionally sold and delivered and creating joint-ventures with client companies to solve their talent acquisition challenges. Since 2015, Steven has been the CEO of Cubed Talent Management - incorporating Cubed Recruitment, Indigo Healthcare Recruitment, and Cubed Academy.  Cubed Talent Management brings a new approach to strategic talent management for the engineering, FMCG, electronics, manufacturing and supply chain sectors. Steven started his recruiting career over 25 years ago. Episode Outline and Highlights [3:00] Steven shared his humble beginnings [10:18] What is Steven’s “person-to-person” principle? [20:30] How to establish a true partnership with your clients [29:05] An interesting discussion about repositioning in the recruitment sector [32:10] How to make ‘in-house’ an opportunity instead of a threat [42:30] Learn more about the joint-venture and gain-share business models [55:21] “Be an individual” - how this advice relevant to help your recruitment business Person-to-Person Principle How much value do you put in professionally building real relationships with stakeholders? Steven believes that collaboration, strategic alliances, and joint ventures with clients can be an effective strategy. Explaining his guiding principles when doing business, he explained: “I’ve got high standards as an individual, and one of my many guiding principles, what I recognized very early on, was not to be a function to function, a recruiter to the hirer, supplier to customer, nor be brand to brand. I link up to whoever it might be, the client, company, but for it to be person to person. Steven to Mark. Steven to whoever it might be.” As he further expounded, when you strip away the person’s function and the person’s position, the core of that is a person were in all likelihood, “you have shared values, world views, commonality, family, what you think, what you believe, all of that.” Steven’s authentic relationship with clients resulted in having partners for 20 to 25 years and some of them starting as customers to ending as business partners. Radically Repositioning the Recruitment Sector Steven sees the current sector as being somewhat ‘undignified’ in a sense and generally having a need to mature. When recruiters are cannibalizing over each other as they go out for opportunities and leaving clients somewhere in that melee, it can be perceived as something really unprofessional and self-centered. Instead of disrupting the way recruiters work using technology or other fundamentals, Steven pointed out that very valid inputs and some of them are below: Treat your client with respect and dignity - get in their shoes and feel what it is like in the receiving end of the experience. Be collaborative and open-minded. In line with the above, Steve shared a very good example on how to explain to clients more advantageous options versus just going ‘in-house.’ Partnering with clients and the game-share model. Rethinking our relationship with clients. To summarize, Steven stated “That’s what I mean about disrupting how we do things. It’s really nothing about the technology. It’s really nothing about the fundamentals in recruitment. It’s really about rethinking our relationship with our clients.” Martin House Children's Hospice  Hear about this amazing charity work and how this inspires Steven to have a sense of community and keeping himself grounded. You may refer to the link below to know more about this organization and how you can help out.  Steven Street Bio and Contact Info Got into recruitment on the ground floor - fortuitously, with Larry Gould's business Link Up in June 1993 - followed by a successful stint with Pertemps (which would have been my forever career - had I not launched Relay Recruitment in 1996; subsequently sold in 2011. Now working with an amazing handpicked team at Cubed Talent Management. As stated on my LI profile: a human Swiss Army knife, problem solver, acquirer and nurturer of World Class talent, therapist, wine drinker, believer in a brighter future and, most importantly- lover of dogs. 🐶 Yorkshire born and bred - dragged up in Bradford. A vociferous enemy of mediocrity, shabby service, average aspiration, poor standards and negativity. My own personal mission is to launch a community enterprise supporting young people with Autism, Aspergers and other additional needs into dignified internships, work placements, work experience and ultimately, quality career pathways.  Steven on LinkedIn Cubed Talent Management website link Cubed Resourcing website link Cubed Resourcing on Facebook People and Resources Mentioned Martin House - “Hospice care for children and young people” website link Darren Ledger on LinkedIn Plamen Ivanoff on LinkedIn Natasha Makhijani on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #30 How to Open Doors and Build Relationships at C-Level, with Natasha Makhijani TRR#43 How to Transition From Contingency CV Supplier to Consultative Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff  Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Can you imagine building a salesforce of 100+ staff in 5 months with a team of only 3 recruiters? In the 50th episode of the Resilient Recruiter, my very special guest Jennifer Poloni shares how having a unique approach and consistent planning process lead to the accomplishment of this gargantuan feat.  Jennifer is the owner of the Cascadia Search Group. She started her career as a sales rep and then sales manager in pharma. After having kids she decided to join her husband in his recruiting agency which was originally part of Management Recruiters where she was a Pacesetter for 18 out of 20 years.  Episode Outline and Highlights [1:25] Jennifer shares her background - shifting from a successful pharmaceutical career into recruiting. [3:40] Building a salesforce of 109 staff in five months - hear takeaways on how Jennifer’s team of three people pulled that off. Discussion key pointers:  [8:00] Approach to candidate relations [14:15] Keeping the team motivated [15:33] Hiring and interviewing processes [17:09] Challenges that the team had to overcome [26:25] Dealing with HR and best practices on how to engage with all key decision-makers. [28:30] When to walk away from the business. [29:22] Differentiation - Jennifer explains an AI tool that is a great differentiator in the industry. [32:20] Planning process tips as shared by an MRI Pacesetter (18 out of 20 years.) [39:30] Cold calling best practices. [43:10] Jennifer shares her challenges and proactive approach to deal with the current pandemic and the 2007/8 recession. Delivering on a Tall Order: Making 109 Placements in 5 Months with a Team of 3 Recruiters How do you build a sales team of 109 people in five months with a team of only three recruiters? Jennifer explains in detail how they were able to pull it off. After sharing her story, there are the key takeaways that I heard: Nurturing the right connections and being there for the candidate - becoming a “good sounding board.” Team collaboration and dedication - delegating and dividing tasks and working closely to ensure tasks are completed. Planning and tracking - ensuring necessary tasks and logistics are taken care of efficiently. Keeping your team committed and motivated. Successfully completing the tasks, they got a repeat order. Applying a similar process, Jennifer’s team was able to complete a hiring project of 20 representatives in just six weeks! Plan, Plan, Plan and “Make Five More!” Jennifer’s approach has been focused on relationship building, goal setting, and daily planning. This resulted in a very fulfilling and successful career. During her tenure at MRI, Jennifer was a Pacesetter for 18 out of 20 years and two of her team members were awarded “Rookie of the Year” in 2017 and 2018 under her leadership.   Jennifer’s planning process plays a huge part in this success. She explains: “I personally believe that this job is not a 9 to 5 job especially when you’re a brand new recruiter. I feel like you have to plan, plan, plan, and then you have to make calls, calls, calls. Now, I realize newer people are out there and they feel like emails and text messages work. But I still feel that … the foundation is making those phone calls.  At the end of the day when you feel like, ‘Oh my gosh, I’m done,” MAKE FIVE MORE.” Why the emphasis on making more calls? She added, “I just think it works. And always, that last call of the day is always the best call.”  Jennifer Poloni Bio and Contact Info Jennifer started her career as a Pharma Sales Representative and moved up the ranks to a Sales Manager and has been an executive recruiter for 21 years. Since 1999, she has worked as a recruiter in marketing and market research for pharmaceutical and biotech companies. Jennifer also won several awards for top recruiter performance while being part of MRINetwork, and continue to remain a leader across the executive recruiting industry. She is the owner of Cascadia Search Group based in Washington and also a member of the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of Industry-Leading recruiters in North America.  Jennifer on LinkedIn Cascadia Search Group on LinkedIn Cascadia Search Group website link Cascadia Search Group on Facebook People and Resources Mentioned Tyler Frisbie on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Loxo AI website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #39 7 Years to 7 Figures: From Rookie Recruiter to Million Dollar Biller, with Tyler Frisbie  Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

As we begin a new year, are we justified in feeling hopeful and cautiously optimistic about the market?  Where do we go from here as a recruitment industry?  What are the trends, challenges, threats and opportunities?   To answer these questions, I invited Neil Carberry to share his perspective as the CEO of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation (REC). Neil’s role gives him a unique vantage point to provide insights on the recruitment industry especially on what the future looks like for recruiters.  The REC (Recruitment and Employment Confederation) is the leading membership organization for recruitment/staffing firms and individual recruiters in the United Kingdom.  With a massive membership of around 3,300 companies and 10,000 individuals, the REC publishes industry analysis on a regular basis, including their Annual Recruitment Industry Trends Survey. This means that Neil’s insights are grounded in empirical research combined with anecdotal evidence based on hundreds of conversations with recruitment business owners.    Episode Outline and Highlights [3:35] Neil shares his insights on where we are now as an industry and what the future looks like for recruiters in 2021. [10:28] A big challenge for our industry is making a VALUE based, rather than a price based, argument for what we do  [11:10] Recruitment industry trends; how recruiters can deliver more value as the labour market recovers. [14:45] Delivering more value - Neil shared a really good story on how one of their members added real value to an employer and its employees. [20:30] Current practices and innovations that are being driven in our industry. [25:30] Improving client relations: What advice would Neil give to REC members on helping our clients? [31:05] How we can recruiters rethink service offerings and stay relevant. [42:01] What’s the biggest challenge Neil faced recently in his career? [46:50] Both Mark and Neil love running - here’s why... [48:00] Battling with impostor syndrome and self-doubt. “A Genuine Professional Service” Discussing the real value that the industry brings to the economy, Neil highlights why recruitment is highly different from other sectors and industries and why we should be proud of what we do. He also mentioned a few aspects that also enables a recruitment business to provide a genuine professional service versus just being a transactional and price-driven type of business.   Helping the client to get it right (the wrong hire can cost a client/business hundreds of thousands of pounds) Recruitment plays a vital role in employees’ long term goals  Providing advice and having deep client relationships  Leading the way on diversity and inclusion. As this is easier said than done, hear real-life examples shared by Neil on how this can happen and how it changes people’s lives. To conclude this part of our conversation, Neil said that “I think we should be really proud of what we do as an industry. I think it is easy to hide away or incorrectly compare recruitment to other sectors. We change lives.”  Thoughts on Resilience, Challenges, and Kindness When Neil and I discussed resilience, I had to ask Neil to talk about one of the biggest challenges he had to face in his career. Neil revealed, “You know when we talk about working at home? My experience in spring was not that. It was living at work. I know many, particularly recruitment business owners and operators who have felt the same. I think I had about 4 days off since March 12th.” Neil added, “But I think the thing that I learned... is we all have a fuel tank and we need to remember that sometimes it’s pretty close to empty. So I think making sure taking time for self-care, even when it feels like there are 101 urgent things… Getting a sense of what’s important… Making sure that we’re carving out thinking time, actively throwing stuff off the back of the lorry that doesn’t need to be on the lorry … I think increasingly focusing on human relations as well because we are not seeing people everyday… We are, after all, human beings and kindness is the first thing we should start with. Kindness to ourselves, and kindness to each other.” Very valuable insights indeed! NB - a “lorry” is a truck, for those listening outside the UK :) Neil Carberry Bio and Contact Info Neil Carberry was appointed as Chief Executive of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation in June 2018 has been managing director at the Confederation of British Industry.  In 1999, Neil began his career in recruitment working for executive search firm Fraser Watson before doing a post-graduate degree in Human Resources at the London School of Economics and joining the CBI in 2004. He is a member of the council of the conciliation service ACAS and of the Low Pay Commission where he helps guide pay policy in the UK. He is also the chair of a small primary academy trust in Oxfordshire. Neil on LinkedIn Recruitment & Employment Confederation website Neil on Twitter @RECNeil Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #3 The 4 Qualities of The World’s Top Recruitment Leaders, with Doug Bugie Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter