The Resilient Recruiter

This week on The Resilient Recruiter our most popular guest of all time, Rich Rosen, returns for his second interview.  Previously, Rich shared the mindset and habits that made him a consistent top biller in the industry. This time, you will hear Rich’s unorthodox yet effective approach to client and candidate engagement, leading to high levels of repeat businesses and referrals. These are key factors for anyone who wants to achieve consistent billings and sustainable success in recruiting. What is cool about Rich is that he is a ‘regular guy’ who achieves exceptional results. Most years, Rich bills around a million dollars from his home office just outside of Boston, yet he is very modest and is willing to share his knowledge and experience to benefit others.  You are going to hear about Rich’s recent shift from contingency to engaged search, including the exact pitch he uses to close 4 out of 5 recent assignments. Rich also talks about the recent increase in candidate dropout rates and shares a real anecdote about a candidate ghosting him at the offer stage, and the hilarious tactic Rich used to finally get the candidate to respond, plus much more! Episode Outline and Highlights [4:55] Transitioning from pure contingency to retained or engaged search [10:07] Rich’s key to getting the majority of his business from repeat clients and referrals. [15:36] Why did Rich fire a client at the beginning of this year? [18:30] Hear the different criteria that make a good client. [22:52] Revelation of Rich’s “zoo”-like experience during the pandemic. [29:35] How to deal with ghosting from clients or candidates. [33:00] Key pointers in rapport building. [42:35] Sending a ‘breakup’ note to a candidate. [47:54] Rich’s favourite tools and tech for recruiters. Consistent Repeat Clients and Referrals Part of Rich’s success is getting most of his business from repeat clients and referrals. The partnership-focused spirit that he exudes as well as his approachable personality makes it easy for him to get repeat businesses. When I asked him about this, he shared a couple of key pointers. Doing the right business with the right people. Rich said, “For me, it’s all about working with good people. I have zero tolerance towards working with jerks and people that treat you like garbage.” He shared actual experiences on what types of clients he avoids.   Being real with anyone. “I think I’m extremely real with everyone. I talk to everyone the same way whether you're the secretary or you're the CEO.” Hear how Rich relates this to having future referrals and how it can lead you to a ‘win in the end’. Have You Been Ghosted? Here is How to Deal with It Being ghosted by a client or a candidate can be frustrating, but this is something that a recruiter should expect to happen. Nowadays, it seems acceptable for some to just stop communicating without returning a call or providing honest feedback. Rich shared a very interesting experience during my interview and how he used a very unconventional way of addressing it.  I also asked Rich what we can do to minimize or deal with ghosting from clients or candidates. For Rich, it boils down to building trust and relationships. “I think all that you can do is to build that trust with your candidate, build the relationship up and you got to be more than just a recruiter.”  Listen to Rich’s viewpoint and how he further shared, from experience, ways in which he is able to build that trust and relationship with his candidates and clients. Sending a Break-Up Email to a Candidate How do you deal with a candidate who suddenly disappears and has lost interest? Hear best practices on communicating with such cases. Rich and I shared our approach and how you can keep future options open. Also, hear a piece of really insightful advice that was shared to Rich by an industry veteran with regard to “chasing” candidates. Keeping Up with Technology A big bonus in this episode is that Rich shared the tools he is using for CRM, campaign management, and all recruitment related tech tools you might have not heard before! Links are below, but hear how these tools can be effectively used. Rich Rosen Bio and Contact Info  Rich is the president of Cornerstone Search, named by Forbes Magazine in the Top 20 Executive Search Firm in America for two years in a row. Rich has run his own recruiting firm for 25 years and is one of the top billers in the industry. Quietly billing $850k to a million dollars year after year from his home office in Boston. Rich has been a leading member of The Pinnacle Society, a consortium of the top 80 headhunters in the world, since 2016. Rich on LinkedIn Cornerstone Search website link Cornerstone on Facebook Cornerstone on Twitter @RichRoRecruiter People and Resources Mentioned Chris Schoettelkotte on LinkedIn Outplay Email Campaign Manager website link Interseller website link Appsumo website link Clearout email validation website link WhoKnows website link Chatterworks website link Crystal Knows website link Traq365 website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#6 Habits of a Million-Dollar Biller, with Rich Rosen Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter    

When scaling your recruitment business, one of the biggest challenges you have most likely experienced is finding good recruiters to join your own team. In this episode, my very special guest, Leanne Jones Hunt, shares her unique perspective on recruiting recruiters based on having successfully placed over 700 recruiters with growing recruitment businesses.  Leanne is my Chief Operations Officer, and also a fellow coach here at Recruitment Coach. Leanne started her recruiting career in 2010, after completing her Master’s Degree in Law. Eventually, she launched her own recruitment agency in the recruitment to recruitment or “Rec to Rec” space which she ran for five years before entering the coaching industry. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:20] Leanne’s career highlights, including billing £47,000 in her first 5 weeks and being promoted to director within 12 months [5:55] What is “Rec to Rec”? [13:15] Discussion on career progression in the recruitment industry. [16:04] Characteristics of successful recruiters that business owners should look for [21:05] How Leanne started her own recruitment business at a very young age. [33:46] Business model: 180 vs 360 degree billers - which is better? [38:15] Effective assessment methods for recruiting recruiters. [45:00] Best practices for hiring great recruiters. [48:30] Improving your employee retention. [55:05] Resilience: What was Leanne’s biggest challenge in her recruitment business? The Challenge of Recruiting Recruiters What are the characteristics of successful recruiters that business owners should look for when they are hiring for their own teams? Indeed, one of the ironies in the recruitment industry especially for growing businesses is that it can be challenging to find and recruit good recruiters. Having been a top-performing recruiter herself, as well as running her own recruitment agency and placing recruiters with some of the fastest-growing recruitment companies in the country, Leanne is well placed to provide perspectives on the characteristics of effective recruiters. This is how Leanne puts it, “There are quite a few different traits that make up a good recruiter. But for me, it was work ethic and urgency.” During our interview, Leanne shared her own experience and how it shaped her mindset on why she places such value on work ethic and having a sense of urgency. Leanne encourages business owners to think beyond the typical profile of salesy, extrovert types who are very confident, maybe with a background as a real estate agent or telesales.   “Throughout my career, I tried to challenge the status quo and it did work.” Leanne gave an example of someone she placed who was celebrating their 7th anniversary with the company who broke the mould of what a stereotypical recruiter looks like. Assessment Methods: How to Ensure You Hire the Right Person for Your Growing Recruitment Business What are some of the most effective assessment methods when hiring a good recruiter? Having a thorough hiring process can definitely help when increasing the success rate and retention of new recruiters. So based on experience, what are the best hiring processes that Leanne has seen when working in the recruitment space? Some of her top methods include:  Introduce a working interview/trial day as a stage in the hiring process Focus on assessing their skills, not just a subjective decision based on the way they come across Develop a structured training program Listen to the full interview to hear other takeaways, especially on mistakes and success factors when scaling your business and growing your team of recruiters. Leanne Sara Jones Hunt Bio and Contact Info Leanne Sara Jones Hunt is our Chief Operations Officer here at Recruitment Coach.  Prior to joining forces with Mark, Leanne worked in the recruitment-to-recruitment space in London for 10+ years and placed over 700 recruiters with some of the fastest-growing recruitment companies in the UK. She ran her own successful recruitment-to-recruitment business, Excell Jones, for 5 years which placed trainees/graduates into the recruitment arena.   Before starting her own business, Leanne rapidly progressed from graduate trainee all the way to director.  She has performed every role from office manager, resourcer, 360 recruiter and billing manager.  As a manager, she created extensive training manuals and developed multiple trainees from scratch who didn’t have any recruitment experience to become successful billing recruiters.   In addition to her role as COO, Leanne is also a Coach for our Inner Circle members, and is the resident ‘Queen of Automation’. She regularly shares the secrets on how she was able to claw back 30% of her time through implementing various automation processes, strategies and systems.  Leanne has successfully hired, trained and managed teams of virtual assistants. As well as holding the Inner Circle members accountable, and inspiring them to take action to implement strategies, Leanne is also able to share with our Inner Circle members how to hire and manage a remote team.  Leanne on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

Success in your recruitment business requires a lot of effort and commitment. If you’re being honest with yourself, are you working too hard for too little return? What if you can still be successful, and at the same time spend time on things that matter most? My special guest, John Schlegel, openly shared strategies that helped him be truly successful in his solo-practice while “having a life.”  From mindset, and utilizing contract recruiters, to building meaningful business relationships, you will hear valuable insights and best practices that may help you balance work with your personal life. John is the CEO and Founder of Stonebridge Search in Austin, Texas. He places professionals in the financial advisory services arena, for global and boutique consulting firms, PE firms, investment banks and accountancy firms. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:42] How can a solo practitioner bill $700k+ and still have a life? John shares 4 key factors. [9:00] With no investment banking background, how did John become a strategic advisor in the financial services arena?  [21:52] What made John decide to set up on his own? Hear the life changing events that led him to start his own recruiting practice under extremely challenging circumstances. [28:20] How joining the Pinnacle Society significantly impacted John’s business. [32:00] The mindset shift that leads to greater success. [34:40] Best practices for contract relationships and outsourcing (1099 arrangements). [46:20] With recruitment being really time consuming, how does John spend more time with his family? [51:02] Hear John’s two suggestions if you are working too hard to get things done. Going Solo and Getting the Right Balance How can a solo practitioner bill $700k+ and still have a life? John started his firm in 2009 and says it took a while to come up with the right mix and balance. Some of the successful strategies he put in place include: Focusing on these questions: How am I able to serve my clients better? What are my clients trying to accomplish?  Forging relationships with contract recruiters.  Transitioning to the position of a trusted advisor rather than a vendor. Can you relate to the above practices? In our conversation, John further discussed specific steps he took in applying the above strategies. Establishing Contract Recruiter Relationships One of the major contributors to John’s success as a solo practitioner is his relationships with contract-based specialists. The core idea behind this strategy is to compute your yearly revenue, convert it into an hourly rate, then delegate tasks that would cost less than your own hourly rate, and focus more time on those activities that enable you to earn more revenue.  This is how John puts it: “One of the things that I learned from Jordan Rayboy, who is a great friend of mine… He shared this on the episode he is on with you, where he talks about if you make X amount per year, and you extrapolate those hours out that you are gonna work, say $300 an hour, what are the activities that are $300 or less that you are spending your time on every day? And I thought, he is right, I am spending 60% of my time on things that are less meaningful than I should be.” Some of the practices he shared are employing seasoned specialists, utilizing 1099 arrangements, and splitting the fee. Listen to the interview with John for full details. If You Are Working Too Hard... So how do you get things done and spend more time on your personal well-being, family, and other meaningful non-business/work-related activities? I asked John what advice he can give to someone who is able to successfully attain his job targets but is working too hard. John shared two suggestions: Take inventory of how you are spending your time. Take inventory of your digital time.  Hear John’s experience on what made him focus only on tasks that are productive. John Schlegel Bio and Contact Info John Schlegel is the CEO and Founder of Stonebridge Search in Austin, TX.  He places senior professionals in the financial advisory services arena, with specific expertise in service areas such as Valuation & Opinions, Dispute Consulting, Forensic Services, Restructuring & Turnaround, and Transaction Advisory. His clients include accounting firms, global and boutique consulting firms, private equity firms, and investment banks.  In addition to John's search experience, he provides support for mergers and acquisitions within his specialty areas, both on the buy-side and sell-side. John is a member of the prestigious Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of 80 of the leading recruiters in North America. Membership is based upon the stringent criteria of verifiable industry success, ethical standards, expertise and experience. John holds a B.A. in Public Relations from the Gaylord College of Journalism and Mass Communications at the University of Oklahoma. He lives in Austin with his wife and four children. John on LinkedIn Stonebridge Search website link People and Resources Mentioned Joe Rice on LinkedIn Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#55 How to Build (or Rebuild) Your Recruitment Firm to 7-Figures From Scratch, with Joe Rice TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

As many parts of the economy open up again, recruiters are starting to see a surge in demand for talent.  But don’t make the mistake of thinking this is a return to “business as usual.” There are lessons to be learned from the pandemic, and important steps you must take to ensure you thrive in the coming hiring boom. If you go back to doing things exactly the same way you did before, we’ll miss out on the greatest opportunity in our lifetime to change some of the things we don’t like about recruitment. That’s according to my special guest, Greg Savage who is making a repeat appearance on The Resilient Recruiter. Greg is of the most respected voices across the global recruitment industry, hear his insights on the pandemic, leadership, and reconfiguring the way you do your business. With 40 years in recruitment, Greg is also the author of the Savage Truth which was published only about a year ago selling more than 10,000 copies - highlighting the loyal following he has built. If you have not been exposed to Greg’s no-nonsense approach to recruitment before, then you are in for a treat. Episode Outline and Highlights 3:00 Greg shares his perspective on the pandemic - who are those that dealt with it best?  13:06 The best lockdown marketing idea - “flipping the dynamics.” 22:44 Enduring lessons from the pandemic that recruiters must adopt as standard practice. 33:08 Are KPIs outdated? 38:30 What are the key characteristics and values that owners should be looking for in potential new hires recruiting now compared to what they looked for in the past? 47:25 Thoughts on reconfiguring the profile you look for when hiring rookie recruiters. 55:28 Greg revealed one very important element out of his 14 business pillars, “Leadership Style.” Some Exemplary Performances From Recruitment Businesses in the Pandemic When I launched this podcast in December 2019, I was very fortunate to have interviewed Greg in episode #1.  Following up with him after more than a year, I am really keen to hear his perspectives on dealing with this crisis.  In particular, I hoped he would be able to share examples of people or businesses rising to the occasion.  Greg has a unique vantage point as an advisor to and sitting on the board of, 14 different recruitment companies. How businesses reacted is comparable to the five stages of grief. Here are some key takeaways from him on how some businesses thrived during the pandemic: leadership behaviour played a key factor - those who reached the acceptance stage first were the most successful. understanding the concept of goodwill equity made a big difference. transparency, communication, becoming visible and valuable was really critical. Best to hear directly from Greg both best and bad examples on how some leaders behaved when the pandemic and lockdowns took place. What We Should Have Learned From the Pandemic What are the enduring lessons we should learn from the pandemic as an industry? This is how Greg put it: “Well let me start with a rather cynical, but unfortunately true comment… Owners of recruitment companies will come out of this situation, so relieved that they have survived, so grateful that the markets are peaking up, but they will go back, Mark, and do everything exactly the way they did it before.” This is where it gets more interesting, Greg continues: “Any second article you read on LinkedIn is about how the pandemic has changed recruitment. Absolute bullsh*t! It will not change it. But, the opportunity to reconfigure the way you do things, is HUGE. You can change, and I’ve got some great stories.”  Question from Our Listener Prior to recording this episode, I asked connections on LinkedIn for questions I should be putting in to ask Greg. A very interesting question came from Greg Benadiba, who is the CEO of Bilingual Source. Now that we are entering a phase of renewed growth in the industry and owners are going to be hiring again, “What are the key characteristics and values that owners should be looking for on potential new hires in recruiting now, and how is that different to candidates they’ve hired in the past?” Greg answered this question and very insightful pointers were shared. Here his response to our conversation. Greg Savage Bio and Contact Info After graduating with Honours in Psychology, Greg started his career in Executive Search in Australia, before he went on to manage the London office of the United Kingdom’s largest accounting recruiter for two years. In the early 1980s, he returned to Australia to run the Sydney office of Accountancy Placements (now the Hays Group), where he was invited to join the Board of Directors at age 27. Greg founded Recruitment Solutions in 1987, and rapidly built the start-up across Australia and New Zealand, culminating in eight offices, 200 staff, and annual sales of $60,000,000. Such was Recruitment Solutions’ success that, in July 1998, the company was successfully listed on the Australian Stock Exchange, with Greg at its helm as both Executive Director and COO. In April 2001, Greg joined Aquent as Asia-Pacific CEO. In 2005, he was promoted to Aquent International CEO and assumed responsibility for all Aquent businesses outside of North America, which then comprised over 25 offices across Europe, Asia, Australia and New Zealand. In 2010 Greg acquired the Permanent and Search business of Aquent in Europe, Asia and Australasia, via a management buy-out, and founded Firebrand Talent Search. He quickly created a global brand for this specialist Digital and Marketing recruiter, and successfully sold the business, in 7 countries, in January 2013. An active investor in recruitment businesses, Greg is a Founder and shareholder of people2people, one of Australia’s fastest growing recruitment companies, and also a Director and Chairman of New Zealand specialist Consult Recruitment. He also has involvement with many HR Tech related businesses including VideoMyJob  and JobAdder In recognition of his contribution to the Australian recruitment industry, Greg was made an Honorary Life Member of the Recruitment and Consulting Services Association (RCSA) in 2004. He was subsequently elevated to Fellow (FRCA). In addition, Greg was the inaugural winner of the highly prestigious RCSA “Outstanding Contribution to the Recruitment Industry” Award 2011. Recruitment Hall of Fame In April 2018 Greg was inducted into the Recruitment International ‘Hall of Fame’ for his contribution and services to the recruitment industry LinkedIn ‘Top Voices ‘2018. Greg was named one of only 342 out of 550 Million LinkedIn members named as top influencers and for sparking professional conversations globally. Greg’s website link Greg on LinkedIn Greg on Facebook Greg on Twitter @greg_savage Greg on Instagram Greg on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Greg Benadiba on LinkedIn The Best Crisis Business Development Idea I Have Ever Seen by G. Savage 14 Agency Recruitment Metrics to Run Your Business by G. Savage Thrive Webcast link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #1 The Future of Recruitment: Strategies To Stay Relevant and Effective, with Greg Savage TRR #14 How to Demonstrate Leadership in a Crisis with Greg Benadiba Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

Are you a small to mid-sized recruiter who wants to beat the big boys and be recognized as a market leader? Or perhaps you’re super-ambitious and dream of expanding your recruitment business nationally or even globally? In either case, you’re in for a treat as I interview Eloise Sutton Kirkby.  Eloise is the Co-Founder and Director of Growth at Vincere, a market-leading all-in-one ATS CRM which is run by ex-recruiters. Vincere means “to win” or “conquer” in Latin, and they specialize in weaponizing recruiters through tech. Eloise believes that recruitment technology levels the playing field for scrappy underdogs to win against their bigger competitors.  In addition to her knowledge of recruitment technology and automation, Eloise shares her hard-won insights gleaned from scaling her company to 80 employees and offices in 5 countries. Episode Outline and Highlights [3:10] Eloise’s recruitment career takes her from Leeds to Tokyo; why she and her partner Bernie Schiemer started a software company. [8:20] Recruitment technology: what is a “Frankenstack”? [11:40] Which of your recruitment and business processes should be automated? [13:40] Eloise’s entrepreneurial journey and scaling her software company to 80 people. [18:18] Discussing the pros and cons of setting up an office offshore. [24:55] Business challenges that Eloise faced being headquartered in Vietnam. [31:31] Inbound marketing strategies and building a personal brand on LinkedIn. [45:17] Dealing with adversity: Eloise shares the toughest experience she’s ever faced.  What Processes Should Be Automated with Recruitment Technology? Being in the recruitment technology space, I asked Eloise if she can give an example of a workflow or part of the recruitment process that can be successfully automated. This is how she responded, “I think for mid-sized recruitment firms … the area of automation that is weak usually is between the front-middle-back office.” She further elaborated, “Around your pay and bill systems, collecting of time from your candidates. Often what we see is that placement is made in the CRM, pushed out to the pay and bill software, and never seen in the CRM again. So the consultants don’t know if timesheets have been submitted if they are paid on that timesheets coming in and that is kind of important and that is just one example of how data is being siloed between different teams in a mid-sized organization.” Inbound Marketing Strategies Eloise and her team focused really heavily on product development with the sincere belief that word-of-mouth will do the marketing for them. Eloise recalls, “What we have really woken up to is the fact that we don’t really need to spend a lot in marketing. We don’t want to have a massive sales team, that is not us. What we do want to do is to have our customers not see us as a vendor, to see us as a partner and as part of that partnership, they will be our marketers.” So what marketing strategies do they effectively employ? Some are as follows: Referral and reward system for their existing clients Content marketing via LinkedIn Hear our discussion and sharing of practices on how to strategically use LinkedIn and other social media platforms. Resilience in Adversity I also took the opportunity to ask Eloise on what would be the most challenging experience and how she faced the challenge. She shared a very moving personal story which I believe you will find interesting. Best to hear it from Eloise in this episode. Eloise Sutton Kirkby Bio and Contact Info Eloise is the Co-founder and Director of Growth for Vincere, an all-in-one platform for recruitment and staffing agencies worldwide. She started her career in recruitment as a consultant with Michael Page in the financial sector. She had experience working in Leeds, Tokyo, Singapore, and is now based in Saigon. Eloise is also the host of the Contract Recruiter Podcast which focuses on the world of Contract Recruitment. Eloise on LinkedIn Vincere website link Vincere on Youtube Contract Recruiter Podcast link People and Resources Mentioned Bernie Schiemer on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

Why do companies struggle to hire female executives? How can we, as recruiting professionals, help our clients to address the gender-gap particularly in C-suite level searches?  What steps can be taken toward a long-term solution? By sharing her own experience, my special guest Venesa Klein gives her take on how businesses and organizations can make a meaningful, long-term impact on the gender-gap at executive levels. Venesa is a partner at Calibre One, a leading executive search boutique with offices in San Francisco, London, New York, and Singapore. Based in LA, Venesa manages the Women Board Member Recruiting as well as Diversity Recruiting specializing in VP and C-level searches for consumer internet, e-commerce, CPG and category-defining tech companies. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:48] Why do companies struggle to hire female executives? [5:38] What is the long-term solution to close the gender gap into recruiting C-suite levels? [10:08] Are your clients serious about addressing the gender gap in your organization or just playing lip service? Venesa shared the signs to distinguish which is which. [21:00] Venesa shares her own experience in balancing motherhood with work during the pandemic. [30:34] Critical roles husbands play for their working partners. [34:00] How boundaries and flexibility in schedule contribute to actively working mothers. [38:00] What could companies do to get an edge in attracting women top talents?  [42:50] Venesa shares her experience in helping out build Google’s internal executive search function. [49:59] Hear our discussion on effective tools and recruitment technology. Addressing the Gender Gap: Small Steps for a Long-Term Strategy As businesses and companies focus on gender diversity, it can be a challenge to close the gender gap. The reason? Venesa said, “That is the important question, what is the strategy? What is the long game? I think that’s the piece that companies are missing, is it’s very reactionary to pressure from aboard, you know social media pressure...We need to think much bigger than that.” Although it can be difficult, Venesa laid out a few solutions as a starting point to address the challenge of closing the gender gap, especially in C-suite levels by creating pathways for women to progress within their respective organizations. Some of the pointers are as follows: Recruiting women early and often into entry-level roles and defining career paths for them. Providing mentorship opportunities. Moving them through the organization in a thoughtful and structured way. Venesa also added, “You have to have a strong HR function that is thinking this through with you.” A Roller-Coaster Ride One of the life-changing events that Venesa shared is her “jolting experience” of motherhood and how she was able to balance it with work. While everybody has a different experience, becoming a mom (especially during the pandemic) was a wake-up call for Venesa. This is how she describes it, “I know that when I became a mom, it had felt like it wasn’t talked about. I don’t know whether because I didn’t have children or I wasn’t just tuned in to the conversation or that the conversations just weren’t happening.”  Some of the challenges she relayed, on which some of our listeners may be able to strongly relate to are: From work being the priority and the ability to work all hours to having finite stop-start working hours and feeling exhausted. The challenge of focusing at work with so little sleep like it was survival mode. The challenge of spending as much time with children as possible while being an effective business partner. Have you had the same struggles when juggling work with motherhood?  Business Best Practices to Attain Female Top Talent What can give a business an edge in terms of employing female top talents? Based on Venesa’s experience, it really is important for a business to take care not only of their female employees but also their employees’ relationships with their children. Some of the best practices mentioned would be offering reimbursement for childcare or offering childcare onsite. Also, measuring success and accomplishment based on outcome rather than time spent is a significant factor to offer them flexibility. Venesa Klein Bio and Contact Info Venesa Klein is an executive talent recruiter and Partner at Calibre One, a leading transatlantic executive search boutique. Since 2007, Venesa has helped some of the world's most successful companies build out the critical leadership teams that drive their success.  Her robust network of C-Suite and VP-level executives make her a highly sought-after full-cycle recruiter across a portfolio of consumer internet, eCommerce, CPG, and category-defining technology companies. As a Partner at Calibre One, Venesa founded its Purpose-Driven Practice, which focuses on placing executives in growing organizations seeking to create innovation with meaningful impact. Her empathy-forward personality along with her strategic thinking has enabled her to work with Google, Thinx, Rev.com, Mixbook, among others, to identify and recruit essential leaders in operations, marketing, and human resources. Before joining Calibre One, Venesa was the Senior Recruiter at MarketTools a 500 person enterprise technology and services company where she was responsible for the recruiting function internationally. She was also a consultant at Google where she was responsible for building out their internal executive search function and was The Consumer Practice Leader at The Pacific Firm. Outside of work, Venesa is actively involved in various roles within a number of animal welfare, environmental, and educational charities. Her commitment to philanthropy and her two young children keep her quite busy.  She splits her time between Northern and Southern California. Venesa on LinkedIn Venesa’s website link Calibre One website link People and Resources Mentioned “So you want to hire a woman onto your C-Suite? Here’s why you won’t get one..” article link Helen McGuire on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #57 Diversity as a Differentiator – How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

While most recruitment companies revenue and profits were down during the Covid-19 crisis, Andersen James Group revenue grew by 35%.  In this interview, I asked Managing Director, James Leighton, how they achieved this remarkable result in an extremely challenging climate.  One of the key themes that emerged from our conversation was “client partnerships.”  For James, this isn’t an abstract concept -- it’s core to his business strategy.  Their new Strategic Partnerships business model was one of the key factors that enabled them to grow during the Covid-19 pandemic. This isn’t to say it was easy.  There were some significant challenges along the way.  As you are about to hear, Andersen James met these challenges by bringing a lot of innovation and creativity to recruitment within the property and construction sectors. If you like hearing about fresh ideas and different ways of partnering with clients, you are going to enjoy this episode. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:40] James shares his motivation and a bit of history of the Andersen James Group [5:05] How having an internal recruiter talent acquisition experience shaped James’ mindset on outsourced recruitment. [8:03] Strategic Partnership - how the Andersen James Group embraced the partnership approach during the covid crisis. [20:15] Discussion on recruitment metrics and tracking mechanisms. [23:32] Three key factors in growing profit by 35% during covid. [29:44] The difficulty of splitting from a business partner - James shared his experience. [35:22] Removing himself from billing and focusing on the business - what triggered James to take this decision and how it was a game-changer. [39:33] The benefits of hosting webinars for your market [51:01] How James’ group invested in marketing [53:30] What would you do if a client went bust on you? Learn from James’ experience. [1:00:00] Selecting a good business partner. Experience From Both Sides of the Fence Prior to becoming a recruitment business owner, James had experience in internal recruitment talent acquisition. This valuable experience gave him an insight into how recruiters are perceived, what they do best for their clients, and what could be further improved from a client’s point of view.  Hear out what he thinks that recruiters should understand in working with clients and how to ultimately make the working relationship better. Embracing the Partnership Approach During the pandemic, James’ business was able to sustain significant growth by investing heavily in technology and innovation. One of these innovations was adapting an approach based on partnership. Going for a partnership approach with your clients can be challenging but this was not the case for James’ company. They have adapted a Strategic Partnership model that gives their client a different way of recruiting. If explained briefly, this is how their business model works: Outsourced recruitment function with a monthly retainer fee Dedicated heads provided for their client - with a profit margin per head Offering efficiency of cost for the client by providing them an internal recruitment team  Internal feel of a recruitment team with an external presence in the market How does the program work for their clients and their company? What inspired the idea? Listen to the answers from James in this episode. Growing the Profit by 35% During Covid While most recruitment companies are losing around 40% in profit during the pandemic, it was the opposite for Andersen James as they actually grew their profit by 35%! What are the key factors that contributed to this success? James mentioned at least three, which is heavily investing on: Extensive training for employees Technology - e.g. CRM system Marketing Sharing Best Practices During Covid Last year, James did a series of webinars with two main intentions - to create case studies and share best practices with their market. Why did he do it? Rather than just write a case study, they created events to share how they’ve solved certain problems and show the market exactly what it is that they’ve done.  James explains the success of this education-based marketing strategy: “there were 900 people to the first one, 500 people to the previous one, and it was really targeted.” James Leighton Bio and Contact Info James Leighton is a Managing Director of Andersen James Group. Andersen James was born out of a desire to bring innovation and creativity to recruitment within the property and construction sector.  Their passion lies in offering added value to their customers. They offer best practice advice and support in the design and implementation of market leading recruitment campaigns and programmes that will not only attract and recruit the best talent but also retain and re-energise existing teams. With the launch of the new Strategic partnerships business when Covid struck, growing that to 3 big contract wins, re-aligning our sales vision and further niching their business into a Housing Specialist across the UK, they have set up really well with the right platform and infrastructure to scale up their business James on LinkedIn Andersen James Group website link Andersen James Group on LinkedIn People and Resources Mentioned Kevin Redman on LinkedIn Greg Savage on LinkedIn Joel Slenning on LinkedIn Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #41 Dare to Be Different – How to Create Your Unique Value Proposition, with Kevin Redman and Matt Halfpenny TRR #53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

As we are gearing towards the post-covid environment, we need to keep up with technological and industrial trends to remain relevant. Have you heard of On-Demand Recruiting? Would you like to know about the “Tinderization” of the recruitment process? Listen in to this episode as my special guest, Evan Sohn, shares how their platform intends to disrupt the recruitment continuum using technology and AI platforms. Evan is the Chairman and CEO of Recruiter.com which is a hiring platform for the world’s largest network of recruiters. They empower businesses to recruit specialized talents faster with virtual teams of recruiters, AI job matching, and video technology. Evan is an experienced entrepreneur and he is an executive or advisor to multiple companies. Typically disruptive technologies and industries such as online marketplaces, payments, instant messaging, data security and mobile computing. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:40] Why the need for the recruitment industry to change in a post-covid world. [7:13] Evan discusses how Recruitment.com is impacting recruitment with technology. [13:15] Disrupting the recruitment continuum and shifts we should make post-covid.  [19:45] How the video-first process can significantly change the recruitment industry. [32:10] Headhunting and technology: expediting the process. [38:16] Do technology platforms ‘dehumanize’ the recruitment process? [44:53] What is on-demand recruiting? [46:50] What are the trends and challenges coming up in order to get better as an industry? [53:00] The Sohn Conference Foundation The “Tinderization” of Recruiting Discussing the need for the recruitment industry to change in a post-covid world, what shift do we need to make? Evan first talked about the recruitment continuum: post a job, collect resumes, review resumes, phone screen, interview, and hire. With the advancement of online technology, how did the recruitment process adapt? The job board got digitized. Resume collection and reviews have been automated using AI technology. Phone screen and interview is now done online via video screening and interviews. Even documentation is now done online. However, looking at the process, essentially the continuum is still the same. He then mentioned how platforms like Tinder and Matched.com created an approach that can be applied to the recruitment industry, speeding up the process with better results.  Here is how Evan put it: “I actually think that video first, is really gonna transform this whole industry. I’m gonna post up a job, I’m going to look at videos and there’s gonna be this transaction very much like the Tinderization of recruiting. I’m going to look at a resume, I’m going to look at a video of a candidate, if I’m interested in them, I’m gonna swipe left. They will get a notification that there’s a job, do they want to see it? If they are interested, fantastic I will move on from there. We have seen internally, video screening, shorten the entire end to end process” Hear how this method worked amazingly for Recruiter.com. Can Too Much Technological Disruption “Dehumanize” the Recruitment Industry? Looking at automated recruitment platforms online, we cannot rule out the possibility of eliminating the ‘human factor’ in the process. With aggregated resumes and talent pools available online on these platforms, a client can simply submit his requirements for a certain candidate and simply wait for potential candidates.  Could this discourage them from speaking to a recruiter or recruitment specialist? Would too much technological disruption ‘dehumanize’ and negatively impact the industry? Here is what Evan thinks. “We are really an on-demand platform for recruiters. So what we are really doing now is we bring opportunities to recruiters, on-demand. The recruiters are paid, either by the hour, by project, by success, but our fastest growing area is really on-demand recruiters. We really believe our mandate - ‘recruit talent faster and better.” He then added, “I think the shift that we are gonna start to see is recruiters being treated not like a real estate broker… recruiters are not a real estate broker, they are an attorney. They should be treated as a doctor, they should be treated as a specialist… the human element of recruiting, is a professional, is a serious professional.”  In our conversation, Evan acknowledged the critical role of the “human element” in recruitment and aims to transition to a point where recruiters are perceived as serious professionals with extensive expertise in understanding the needs of their clients and candidates. In creating a platform like recruitment.com, the objective is to give opportunities to small and independent recruiters and empower them. The Sohn Conference Foundation While building a career growing and advising businesses in the technology sector, Evan co-founded the Ira Sohn Conference Foundation in honor of his brother, a Wall Street professional who lost his battle with cancer at age 29. Now in 11 cities, 10 countries, and 5 continents, they have now raised more than 90 Million USD for pediatric oncology. If you also wish to make a serious impact on children, please refer to the link in the below section to know how you can help. Evan Sohn Bio and Contact Info Chairman and CEO of Recruiter.com. Evan is a veteran entrepreneur and visionary executive and expert in disruptive technologies in industries as far as wide as online marketplaces, payments, Wi-Fi and Instant Messaging data security, handheld development, and mobile computing.  Most recently the Vice President Sales, North America Financial Services for Poynt (acquired by GoDaddy in 2020), a silicon valley company building and deploying the world’s first open smart terminal. Through Evan’s efforts, Poynt went from $0 in revenue to over $30M in the 3 years that he was at Poynt.  Separately, Evan has been a dedicated and energetic advocate of a cure for pediatric cancer for almost 25 years. While building a career growing and advising businesses in the technology sector, Evan co-founded the Ira Sohn Conference Foundation in honor of his brother, a Wall Street professional who lost his battle with cancer at age 29. The Foundation has expanded its reach to include conferences in Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, India, London, San Francisco, San Paolo, Sydney, Tel Aviv and Toronto. To date, the Conferences have raised over $90million towards pediatric cancer and other childhood diseases. Evan on LinkedIn Evan on Twitter @esohn Recruiter.com platform link Recruiter.com Facebook Community link People and Resources Mentioned The Sohn Conference website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

“The big hypocrisy of our industry is that we hire all these people for our clients yet we suck at hiring people for ourselves.”  If you agree with this statement, then you’ll love the directness and honesty of my podcast guest Monte Merz.  Listen in as he shares his secrets to hiring recruitment rockstars - from the interview process, training, coaching and compensation. Hear why his firm has won multiple awards for being one of the best companies to work for in Denver and one of the fastest-growing companies in the United States. Monte is the managing partner of High Country Group in Denver, Colorado. The group has 23 members of staff including 18 fee earners and is comprised of several different divisions: Energy Search, Executive Search, Tech Search and Staffing. Prior to launching the business in 2002, Monte spent 8 years working for some of the biggest recruiting firms in the world - from running a desk to becoming a Regional VP. Episode Outline and Highlights [4:09] Monte’s “accidental tourist” story of starting his recruitment career [11:00] How Monte was promoted and fired on the same day, leading him to start his own recruiting firm [15:35] What is the “leaky bucket theory”? [17:05] Why High Country had a terrible first year in business and the actions Monte took to turn things around. [25:03] Using a process that works - Monte’s “Funnel # Plus” model. [32:18] Hear Monte’s approach to job sustainability and compensation plan. [37:04] Monte’s firm has an exceptional “per desk average” with the majority of his recruiters billing over $300,000 per year. Hear how he recruits and keeps good people. [47:30] How to recognize a rockstar - hear the qualities you should look for. [50:47] Monte’s long-term vision for his firm. How Monte Started  Monte considers himself an accidental tourist when it comes to his recruitment career. A farm kid in Nebraska, he wanted to move to Colorado.  An interview for a recruitment job gave him the opportunity he was looking for.  He started running a desk and soon became a top biller in the region. What made him perform so well? The same qualities made him successful as a high-level college wrestler. His work ethic, ability to learn, leadership qualities, and having a logical approach when dealing with people. Hear his story of how he managed to get himself hired, promoted, and fired on the same day. The “Leaky Bucket” Theory How much do you spend on marketing for your recruitment firm? Monte believes that what makes his business successful is being really good at what they do, which is finding people. He then explained the “leaky bucket” theory: “If you are just going out at full speed, like a, name the national, you know they’ve got 10 to 20 holes in their buckets where they are just constantly losing their clients by not delivering.  You are always gonna be losing a client but if you only have like, one or two holes in your bucket, you just do really good work, and you are doing direct source recruiting and referral-based recruiting and just doing it right, there is always gonna be a spot for that.”  The Funnel-Pound-Plus Approach Every recruiter and business owner has a business system that works for them. When hiring someone, his training is focused on keeping it short and would focus on his system or approach. Here is how Monte shared his funnel # + approach, summarized verbally: What to do (funnel) How much to do (#) How to not kill each other while you do it (plus) During our conversation, he explains in detail how this system works and how he does the knowledge transfer to his new team members. When coaching and communicating with his recruiters, he has always been objective but solution-oriented.  A Sustainable Compensation Plan Monte shared a simple, yet very effective approach to compensation:  “My comp plan is, I have a very aggressive comp plan. I figure that I want to pay people at such a high level that I’m never gonna lose somebody because somebody else offers them more. If you are successful, you will never leave.  If you are not being successful after a year or so … I am not the “hire slow, fire fast” guy. I am a “hire slow, fire slow” person. You can’t get fired around here for not billing.  You can resign if you are not making the money you want.  You don’t get fired for not billing, you can only be fired for being an A-hole.” And the key to success? “if you do enough interviews, enough send-outs, and enough job orders, you will be successful.” How to Look for a Rockstar  I am sure you would agree with Monte’s statement: “The big hypocrisy of our industry is that we hire all these people for people yet we suck in hiring people.” Monte’s average tenure is 18 years, and a big proportion of his people are in the “excellent” range. He shared some of his practices: Being upfront in the interview process Quality vs Quantity -  “I would rather have 18 to 20 rock stars than a hundred idiots” Hire 1 to get 1, instead of the usual practice of hiring 10 to get 2. Listen to how he interviews potential team members. Monte Merz Bio and Contact Info Monte Merz is the Founder and Managing Partner of The High Country Search Group.  Originally from Nebraska, he moved to Denver in 1994 and got started in the Recruiting Industry at the tender age of 25.  Recruiting came pretty naturally and after three years of being the top Finance and Accounting biller for the national recruiting firm everyone knows, he chose to move into a management role with another national recruiting firm everyone knows.  Five years of management experience there resulted in explosive growth, unbelievable experience (good and bad), and a series of promotions that brought him responsibility for multiple offices and a Regional VP title…. as well as some internal intellectual conflict as to whether continuing down the path of the large National Recruiting firm model was really the best long term solution for him (or his teams). In February of 2002, Monte managed to get himself promoted and subsequently fired for lack of enthusiasm for the aforementioned promotion, all in the same day… and The High Country Search Group was born.  Having sworn off management and being responsible for people for good, Monte embarked on a solo recruiting career he promised would expand no further than the breakfast nook in his kitchen.   Fifteen years later, High Country has 23 employees, three Perm Groups, a Staffing Group, and multiple local and national awards for both “Fastest Growing” and “Best Company to Work For” and Monte has clearly failed on his promise to stay a simple little one-man shop. How did this happen?  He kept his promise to stay simple, it just didn’t stay a one-man shop.  Simple rules, consistent execution, and almost zero turnovers lead to slow but steady growth and a local shop doing more than 10 Million Dollars in annual Revenue… and a 15-year overnight success story sort of just happened. A farm kid from Nebraska, Monte was a 2-time All-American and 2-time Academic All-American Collegiate wrestler.  He was a Volunteer Graduate Assistant Wrestling Coach for the Iowa Hawkeyes, and in 2016 at age 46, clocked his first sub-3 hour marathon at the 2016 Boston Marathon.  Don’t be overly fooled by the country jargon, he’s about as laid back as it comes, but at the end of the day, he’s an incredibly competitive, process-driven, numbers guy.  And, if you give him a listen, you might just find some simple wisdom that resonates. Monte on LinkedIn High Country Search Group website link People and Resources Mentioned Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Like most recruiters, Norwood Staffing’s sales took a nosedive in March 2020. They were coming off a record year, having achieved growth of 504% in 2019. That trend looked set to continue and the business was booming at the beginning of 2020.  Suddenly in March, the Coronavirus hit and sales came crashing back down to earth. From averaging 60 recs in Q1, they went to zero jobs in Q2. Yet in spite of a terrible Q2 and Q3, Norwood Staffing bounced back and went on to have a record year with revenue growth of 891%.  Listen into my interview with Norwood’s founder and president, Justin Satterfield as he explains the factors that contributed to their extraordinary come back. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:01] How Norwood Staffing dealt with the pandemic after a strong 2019. [8:30] Hiring more people while your revenue is decreasing - what was Justin thinking? [16:05] Justin reveals how he got 891% revenue growth during the pandemic. [23:04] Insightful idea on managing your team in a difficult time. [27:33] Physical conferences vs. virtual events - which would you prefer?  [36:46] What was Justin’s biggest challenge in growing his business? [43:05] Continuous growth: Norwood Staffing’s mid and long term plans. [48:52] Recruiting recruiters: 4 keys to attracting and retaining the best people [57:55] What’s Justin reading? Here are his latest book recommendations. How Justin Grew Revenue by 891% During the Pandemic In our last conversation beginning of the year 2020, Justin and I talked about how he built his company close to a million dollars in the first three years before the pandemic. Justin shared, “We were really coming out of a strong 2019, I was very excited about 2020. Twenty-nineteen was our first year to have a team… we grew 504% that year. So going into 2020 I’m pumped, right? This is just going to be an incredible year.”  Then the coronavirus pandemic hit. This is how he described the impact “Rolling into Q1, we were averaging 60+ recs on the board, we were doing absolutely fantastic, really moving along. Then March came. A lot of people were like, ‘Oh, you’re in healthcare, I’m sure staffing is great in healthcare.’ No. No, it wasn’t.”  From averaging 60 recs, they went to zero jobs in Q2.  How did Justin adapt to the challenge? It started with his mindset. “This is where real business leaders are defined. There is always an opportunity, no matter what the market is.” He considered the market at the time as a ‘great time to hire.’ He focused on the opportunity and built his team. Having grown by 504% in 2019, they achieved another record year in 2020 growing by 891%! Be the Positive in Someone’s Day One of the main contributors to Norwood Staffing’s incredible growth during the recession is the relationships they were able to build pre-pandemic. As it was really difficult to start new contracts last year, Justin’s approach was simple, “it was really just sticking to the folks that we already built relationships with and vetting that out. Really not much more to it.” Referring to the relationships he build over the years, how did Justin keep in touch without seeming too “salesy” or just asking for business? Justin shared, “Picking up a phone and having a conversation. Everybody was having a tough time… be a human. Let’s have a conversation, be the positive in someone’s day.”   Hiring Process to Bring in the Best Recruiters Recruiting & staffing firm owners know how difficult it can be to hire superstar recruiters for your own team. We discussed the high attrition rate that is common in our industry and how Justin focuses on hiring rockstars and retaining them for the long term.  Justin shared his best practices: Maintain a really good brand Pay your people well Treating people like adults Vet out the candidate’s personality and philosophy Considering the finite talent pool of experienced top-performers, how is Justin able to build his team of superstars remotely? Listen to the full interview to learn Justin’s strategy! Justin Satterfield Bio and Contact Info Justin Satterfield has always been a huge people-person, and the notion that the good life is built with good relationships is the foundation of his personal philosophy and lifestyle. Whether he is spending time with a close friend or meeting someone in passing, he cherishes good conversation and revels in the opportunity to make a lasting memory. Justin was also the kid loading up his lunchbox with candy from home and selling it at school in the 3rd grade (great margins, thanks Mom!). So, it is no surprise that he now works in an industry where his love for people and business is a happy marriage. Knowing his efforts impact the bottom line and coaching the talent he works with to attain the unattainable is what motivates him to bring his maverick personality to seek mastery in this ever-evolving industry. After gaining valuable experience with a start-up staffing agency, he joined one of the largest firms in the nation where he climbed to the top 4% in the company across all industries in less than two years. He was a key contributor in taking a relatively new HIM staffing team from the start-up phase to the highest-grossing team in the company. Creating a new business with over 150 hospitals and 5 consulting groups across 27 states, he gained the experience, knowledge and reputation he needed to pursue his own dreams — Welcome to Norwood Staffing Solutions. Founded in 2016, Norwood has remained privately owned with no investors, partnerships or financial backing. His bootstrapped company is quickly becoming a well-known competitor in the industry supporting a number of large health systems nationally with trusted sourcing and successful placements. Justin on LinkedIn Justin (at) NorwoodStaffing.com Justin’s company: Norwood Staffing People and Resources Mentioned Abid Hamid on Linked James Cann on LinkedIn Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of NIKE The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom, Jonathan Haidt Rocket Fuel: The One Essential Combination That Will Get You More of What You Want from Your Business, Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters Trillion Dollar Coach: The Leadership Playbook of Silicon Valley's Bill Campbell Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram:  Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #5 How Justin Satterfield Hit $1M Within 2 Years of Starting A Recruitment Agency TRR #48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an “Exit-able” Recruitment Business, with Abid Hamid Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter