Sounds of SAND

Pat McCabe, Diné elder and ceremonial prayer leader known as Woman Stands Shining, shares Indigenous teachings on sovereignty, masculine and feminine principles, and right relations. She traces movement from the glittering world to the green world. Topics include ceremony and sunrise practices, intergenerational survival, consent and honorable harvest, and restoring human kinship with Earth and beyond.

Fatemeh Keshavarz, poet and professor of Persian language and culture. Omid Safi, scholar of Islamic mysticism and author on radical love. They read Persian poetry, mourn cultural erasure, and explore grief, resilience, and remembrance. They discuss art as everyday resistance, poetry’s role in keeping memory alive, and moral clarity in the face of destruction.

Tristan Harris, technology ethicist and co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology, warns about AI rewiring relationships, parenting, and economies. He traces transformer breakthroughs, jagged capabilities, and runaway risk. He probes AI as an extractive, imperial force and outlines cultural, policy, and grassroots moves to keep humanity central.

Simon Wickhamsmith is a Buddhist monk turned scholar, computer musician, and one of the only translators of Mongolian literature into English. He teaches in the Writing Program at Rutgers University and has been traveling back and forth to Mongolia since 2006. In this conversation he traces his spiritual path from Catholicism through Tibetan Buddhism and back to medieval Christian mysticism, introduces the Mongolian poet Mend-Ooyo, and takes us deep into the life and poetry of the 19th century Buddhist polymath Danzanravjaa — a figure Simon considers his primary teacher — including a live reading of the poem Twos, a stunning meditation on nonduality from the Mongolian steppe. Topics 00:00 — Introduction 00:02 — Simon's spiritual path: Catholicism, Opus Dei, the Desert Fathers, and Zen 00:04 — Discovering Tibetan Buddhism, Samye Ling monastery in Scotland, and ordaining as a monk 00:06 — The three-year retreat, his mother's illness, and returning to the world 00:07 — Returning to medieval Christian mysticism: Julian of Norwich, Meister Eckhart, The Cloud of Unknowing 00:10 — How SAND connected with Mend-Ooyo in Mongolia — and how Simon met him 00:12 — Teaching himself Mongolian by translating Danzanravjaa's complete works 00:13 — Introducing Mend-Ooyo: born 1952 into a nomadic herding family, poet and cultural guardian of Mongolia 00:16 — The underground literary group GAL (Fire) and Mend-Ooyo's role in Mongolian literary culture 00:18 — Mend-Ooyo's mission: reconnecting Mongolia to its nomadic heritage after Soviet collapse 00:19 — Mend-Ooyo's new novel The Solitary Tree: Robin Hood, shamanism, Buddhism, and falcons 00:23 — Who was Danzanravjaa? Born in the Gobi Desert, recognized as the fifth reincarnation of the Noyon Hutagt 00:26 — Danzanravjaa's approach: spontaneous, impromptu poetry as dharma teaching 00:28 — Mongolia's first traveling theater troupe and the poems as dictated teachings 00:31 — Live reading and analysis of Perfect Qualities — a love poem, a guru poem, and a poem of nonduality simultaneously 00:33 — The three levels of meaning in Danzanravjaa's poetry: outer, inner, and secret 00:38 — Bhakti yoga, Ram Dass, Maharaji, and the connection to direct transmission beyond doctrine 00:41 — Danzanravjaa and the land: the Shambhala vortex at Hamriin Hiid 00:44 — Horses, landscape, and the spiritual path in his poetry 00:45 — Simon's personal experience of the Shambhala site and animist relationship to land 00:49 — If Danzanravjaa were alive today: his anti-Manchu politics and primary focus on deepening practice 00:50 — Live reading of the poem Twos — nonduality in full 00:54 — On translation: humor, layers of meaning, and the paradox of the poem itself     Resources & Links   Simon Wickhamsmith   Rutgers University faculty page Suncranes and Other Stories: Modern Mongolian Short Fiction — Columbia University Press, 2021 Politics and Literature in Mongolia (1921–1948) — Amsterdam University Press, 2020 The Hidden Life of the Sixth Dalai Lama — Lexington Books, 2011   Mend-Ooyo Gombojav   Official website: mend-ooyo.mn Altan Ovoo (Golden Hill) — translated by Simon Wickhamsmith Gegeenten (The Holy One) — novel about Danzanravjaa The Solitary Tree — Mend-Ooyo's most recent novel, published 2025, translated by Simon Wickhamsmith Wikipedia: Mend-Ooyo Gombojav SAND Event — Nature of Mind and Mind of Nature: A Local Event with Mongolian Poet Mend-Ooyo Gombojav (2026)   Danzanravjaa (referenced poems)   Perfect Qualities (also known as The Five Senses / Five Offerings) Twos — read in full during the episode Mend-Ooyo's essay on Danzanravjaa: mend-ooyo.mn/content/86.html   Referenced spiritual figures & texts   The Cloud of Unknowing — anonymous 14th century medieval Christian mysticism text Julian of Norwich and Meister Eckhart — medieval mystics Simon returned to after Buddhism Samye Ling Tibetan Buddhist Monastery, Scotland — where Simon did his retreat Ram Dass and Maharaji — referenced in discussion of bhakti yoga and direct transmission John Cage — Simon's original entry point into Zen Buddhism   Connect with more talks and films from the SAND film Series The Eternal Song   Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member    

Dr. Jaiya John, ancestral Baba, medicine poet, and freedom worker who founded Soul Water Rising. He offers libation prayers and medicine poems. He reframes anger as sacred medicine, holds communal grief as resistance, rethinks war and its appetite for smallness, and calls for soulful gatherings, water remembering, and creative practices that birth collective freedom.

Chiara Baldini, researcher and author studying ecstatic traditions from Minoan Crete to Dionysian rites. She traces Bronze Age Crete as a possibly non‑patriarchal civilization. The conversation highlights palaces as community hubs, frescoes of priestesses and dolphins, bull‑jumping and gender fluidity, and what Minoan animism might mean for today.

Matthew Remski, journalist who studies spiritual abuse; Tara Brach, psychologist and meditation teacher; Pat McCabe, Indigenous ceremonial leader; Bayo Akomolafe, philosopher and mytho-poetic teacher. They probe the cultural forces that enable silence around harm. Short reflections, fierce questions, and calls for collective accountability unfold in a live, heart-centered conversation.

Casey Camp-Horinek, Ponca elder and Hereditary Drumkeeper who centers Indigenous sovereignty. Osprey Orielle Lake, climate justice leader and WECAN founder who lifts up women's and Indigenous leadership. Abby Reyes, author and resilience director who links personal loss to extractive harms. They tackle colonization, extractivism, legal victories for Indigenous rights, community-rooted action, and paths toward collective healing.

Patty Krawec is Ojibwe Anishinaabe, a retired social worker, and author of Becoming Kin and her new book Bad Indians Book Club. In this conversation she explores kinship beyond blood, land as ancestor, and why reading together — slowly, in community — might be one of the most quietly radical things we can do right now. Topics 00:00 Introduction 00:56 Meeting Patty Krawec 02:00 Land Lineage Roots 04:17 Becoming Kin Origins 06:43 Bad Indians Book Club 10:12 Reindigenizing The Future 14:55 Reclaiming The Word 20:28 Reading Together Power 25:06 Attention In The Feed 25:27 Relearning Deep Reading 26:10 Notebook Trick for Focus 26:54 Building a Genre Mosaic 29:00 Indigenous Horror and Futures 31:53 Read Widely Use Libraries 32:18 Curated Lists and Book Browsing 34:26 Bookstore Serendipity 36:30 AI Pushes Us Offline 38:18 Books as Time Alchemy 41:58 Ghost the System Together 44:10 Deep Time Reading Lineage 47:14 New Projects and Ojibwe Stories 49:59 Thanks and Farewell Resources a thousand worlds Medicine for the Resistance  Why We Are Both Oppressed and Oppressor: Patty Krawec   Becoming Kin Bad Indians Book Club       The Eternal Song   Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg, a Minneapolis ritualist working on trauma-informed community care; Kaira Jewel Lingo, a Plum Village Dharma teacher blending engaged Buddhism and social justice; Dr. Lyla June, Indigenous musician and organizer focused on regenerative food and cultural resilience. They explore neighborhood-based mutual care, weaving spiritual practice with steady organizing. Short, place-based acts of care and interdependence are highlighted as roots of lasting courage.