After the Arrest: Faith Under Occupation

In this episode, we return to our roots and queer the passage, Matthew 4:12–23 by exploring Jesus’s turn toward public ministry in the wake of John the Baptist’s arrest and what that moment of political repression reveals about courage, solidarity, and collective action. In light of the state violence and community resistance and ongoing organizing and protests in Minneapolis, we reflect on Jesus stepping into an already-existing movement, calling others to follow, and proclaiming a kingdom that disrupts unjust systems. We look at what is deemed “criminal” and the power of showing up, building local networks, and plugging into work that’s already happening in your community. We invite y’all to consider how faith, justice, and everyday acts of community care are deeply intertwined and how the light that dawns in dark places is something we choose to carry together.

Takeaways

• The passage in Matthew 4 highlights the call to action in the face of injustice.
• Resistance is often catalyzed by witnessing the arrest or harm of others.
• Community organizing is essential for effective resistance against systemic issues.
• Criminality is often framed by those in power to suppress movements for justice.
• Building community infrastructure is crucial for sustained activism.
• Engaging with local movements can amplify existing efforts and support.
• Small actions collectively contribute to larger movements for change.
• Finding common ground with neighbors can foster community resilience.
• The importance of showing up and being present in community efforts.
• Action is the antidote to fear and overwhelm in the face of injustice.

Chapters

00:00 Exploring Matthew 4: The Call to Action

02:47 Reflections on Resistance and Community Organizing

05:42 The Role of Criminality in Social Justice

08:23 Building Community and Infrastructure

11:11 Engaging with Local Movements

13:55 The Power of Small Actions

16:39 Finding Common Ground in Community

 

Resources:

• Learn more and join the Community at https://www.queertheology.com/community

 

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

1 (10s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G

2 (12s):
Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts from

1 (17s):
Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how

2 (23s):
Tuning each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here.

1 (32s):
Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome back. We are going to be digging into another Bible passage as we going back to our roots and querying a text. Today we’re gonna be looking at Matthew four 12 through 23. We’ve got some good words to say about it. So at first, I’ll read it from the common English Bible. Now, when Jesus heard that John was arrested, he went to Galilee, he left Nazarus and settled in Capernaum, which lies alongside the sea in the area of Zein and nep. This fulfilled what Isaiah, the prophet said, land of Zebulon and land Nepali alongside the sea, across the Jordan Galilee of the Gentiles. The people who lived in the dark have seen a great light, and a light has come upon those who lived in the region and in the shadow of death.

1 (1m 16s):
From that time, Jesus began to announce, change your hearts and lives. Here comes the kingdom of heaven. As Jesus walked alongside the Galilee sea, he saw two brothers, Simon, who was called Peter and Andrew throwing fishing nets into the sea because they’re fishermen, come follow me. He said, and I’ll show you how to fish for people. Right away, they left their nets and followed him. Continuing on, he saw another set of brothers James, the son of Zebedee, and his brother John. They were in a boat with Zebedee. Their father repairing their nets. Jesus called them and immediately they left their boat and their father and followed him. Jesus traveled throughout Galilee teaching and their synagogues. He announced the good news of the kingdom and healed every disease and sickness among people.

1 (1m 59s):
Alright, Shay, we did a deep dive on the gospel of Matthew a few years ago. We’ll link to that series in the show notes of this episode, But we wanted to like revisit this passage today. And so there’s a lot in here in just a few short verses. There’s a few stories here. And so what, what jumps out for you today?

3 (2m 18s):
Yeah, I mean, you know, as we’re recording this, we’ve been watching the events unfold in Minneapolis over the last weeks now, but especially heightened over the last weekend with yet another murder by ice agents in the streets. And just thinking about like, you know, I lived in Minneapolis for 12 years, so it’s, it’s really wild and heartbreaking and terrifying to be watching everything that’s happening, especially now that I’m not there anymore. I was texting you the other day, Brian, right? Like, there’s all of this footage of in, of people in front of restaurants that we used to go to all the time or in front of our apartment building, and it’s just, it’s so surreal.

3 (3m 2s):
And also the folks in Minneapolis are doing such an incredible job organizing and resisting and fighting back against this terrible occupation. And it’s so easy for me to like see the parallels as we read this passage, right? I, I’m so struck by, I’m so struck by the fact that this passage starts out with, after John was arrested, Jesus did X, Y, Z, right? There’s this sense of Jesus maybe being on the periphery of the movement, maybe watching the movement and seeing his friend, his cousin get arrested.

3 (3m 46s):
And that being the thing that kind of like mobilizes him, catalyzes him to get involved. Our friend, the Reverend l Dowd had this thing as she was preparing to preach on this passage she posted on Facebook. She said, repent for the kingdom of heaven has come near, which is Jesus quoting John in Galilee as he begins his public ministry in res in response to John’s arrest. This is still l saying, I cannot stop thinking about what an absolute power move it is to go to the turf of the tyrant who just arrested your comrade for speaking out and to start out your ministry by quoting that same arrested comrade. And I think that’s such a beautiful, beautiful reflection on this passage.

3 (4m 28s):
And I think that that’s also right what we’re seeing in Minneapolis, that every time someone gets arrested or taken away or murdered, like more people show up in that very same spot with the same, same kind of energy and commitment. And I, I’m just really struck by that and, and by the parallels to this passage. So that’s kind of the first thing that comes up for me.

1 (4m 52s):
Yeah, I, I, I was watching an Instagram real earlier today and someone was talking about like, you might have noticed, like usually apolitical like fitness influencers and organic food, like girlies and like those folks like starting to post like about what’s happening in Minneapolis. And her like reflection on that was like, I don’t know man, like where have you been? And also like, okay, like if this, the moment that like wakes you up, this is the moment that wakes you up. And so like it’s, I don’t know, it’s easy for me. Like I got radicalized in like 2006, 2007 to be like, yeah, I’ve been here.

1 (5m 36s):
But it’s like different things for different people at different times. And so even Jesus that like, I think there could have been a moment where the, the movement that could have been like, where have you been? Like we’ve been living under Roman occupation your whole life. Like it took, it took John getting arrested for you to wake up, but like for whatever, like he came of age, he became publicly aware. It affects on like whatever it was like that was a moment for him. And so I think like whatever the moment is for you to like, the best time was a long time ago that the second best time is right now today to just sort of get involved. And like, I think when you were talking about people getting arrested or people getting shot and then like people to descend upon that with the same energy.

1 (6m 15s):
And I like, that’s true. And also like none of that happens on its own or by accident. Like that happens because like people choose to put their bodies out there. And so like, it, like it won’t happen unless people get ballsy and go. And so like, and maybe it’s protest for you, like maybe it’s not protest for you, but like, you know, like MLK Jr quoted, I think it was Theodore Parker, the moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice. And like, this is one of those moments where I think I like disagree with MLK that like, it doesn’t bend itself on, on its own. Like I believe that love wins And I believe that we will defeat white Christian nationalism and, and the encroaching fascism in the US.

1 (6m 56s):
Like, and also it’s like not gonna happen because like a god in the sky saves. It’s because it’s going to be like the God in our midst. The God that appears when we join together each other is what stops it. So like in all the ways that we can resist in the streets by talking to our family, by meeting our neighbors, by calling our politicians, by showing up at food banks, like in all of the ways, like we actually have to like make the choice to take the action is one thing that that shows up. And I, And I’m also struck by the arrest part, and as we’re seeing people getting arrested, the narrative being framed of like they were resisting arrests, they were impeding arrests, trying to say like, the immigrants that they’re going after are criminals and have they broken the law that this like narrative of like law and order and criminality is like leveraged against us to try and like normalize all of the violence that’s happening.

1 (7m 56s):
And like, I think we need to not buy into that because the people in power could just change what is legal who was a criminal, right? Like, like that’s how it works, right? Like everything that happened in Nazi Germany was legal, right? Like they, they changed the laws to make it such, and so like we have to get comfortable saying like, it’s not just that they like don’t deserve to be shot, arrested, deported, et cetera, because like they’re innocent. It’s because like no one deserves that because like the laws will change such that queer people and trans people become sex offenders just for existing in public. That if you like help your friend in a state where like gender affirming medication and hormones have been restricted.

1 (8m 38s):
If you help ’em get that medication now you’re like a drug dealer. If you help a friend travel to a state where they can get an abortion, like now you’re a human trafficker, right? And so we have to be like really wary of even these like categories of criminals that, like criminals, quotes that seem really horrific, drug dealers, sex trafficker, et cetera, like sex offender. Like those are not necessarily these like horrific monsters that we make them out to be. Sometimes it’s like the mom helping her daughter like get her, get her hormones. And so like, and, and we see this like throughout the Hebrew Bible and the Christian scripture is like John was arrested and executed. Jesus was arrested and executed most of the early, like most of the disciples were like arrested and executed.

1 (9m 22s):
Paul was put in jail. Like criminality is like waged against people who follow trying to sort of bring about the kingdom of God on earth as in heaven. And, and so like, it’s not a new or radical thing to say, like sometimes you’re gonna go up against the powers that be. So we have to get comfortable like doing illegal things or, or providing age people who are doing things that an unjust system calls illegal, right?

3 (9m 49s):
Yeah. Yeah. And, And I think, I think you’re exactly right. You know, I’ve been working more with it with people in, in the prison system and so many of the times when I hear their stories it’s like, oh, you have this label or this charge or this crime, like that is not at all what you did, right? Like, or that is not at all like what we conceive of when we hear of that crime. And there are so many things that play into that, like poverty and race and gender and homophobia and transphobia. And so I think, I think that you’re exactly right and, And I think that even as someone who is pretty aware, like that has been really eye-opening to, to sit with people and hear their stories and then to like have their cry and be like, wait, wait, why?

3 (10m 42s):
What are you, what are you talking about? Like, this is what is nuts. And I think too that there is something too to be said, like in in addition to like, this work won’t happen unless we show up and make it happen. It’s also that this in Minneapolis has been building and this is a community that is like filled with organists and organizers and activists and people who like do community organizing in a way that I’ve not seen in a lot of other places, right? Like it’s just so baked into the DNA of, of that city and it’s, they’ve been building this infrastructure for at least a decade, right?

3 (11m 28s):
And so I think that that is also important to remember, you know, we talk about like, it would’ve been good for everyone to be building this infrastructure a decade ago, but now we have to build it right now. And so like, you know, figuring out, like, you might not be able to get a response like Minneapolis in your community, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t do anything, right? That there is an infrastructure to be built. And it’s important that we learn from the people that are doing it. Like I’m, I’m really struck often by the fact that like Jesus, the way that we often talk about it, right, is that Jesus like started a new movement, but the reality is that Jesus stepped into a movement that already existed and like amplified what was happening and picked up a mantle from John who was probably a mentor to him.

3 (12m 18s):
And so like as you think about how you might get involved, like one of the things that I’m thinking a lot about is like, who am I learning from? Who’s mantle am I picking up? How am I entering into community that’s already there? Like, one of my things in the past has been like, well, I’m just gonna like start a new organization. And I’ve had really had to learn to be like, no, you should tap into what already exists. I mean, sometimes it is true that there is nothing and you have to start it, right. And also often there is something and like you can enter into it and figure out how to support it and how to plug in where you are.

3 (12m 58s):
And, and like you said, like that doesn’t necessarily mean protesting, right? There are so many things that are happening on the ground in Minneapolis of like people delivering food, people sorting food that’s been donated, people standing on their street corners, people driving kids to school, right? Like people providing childcare. Like there are so many different ways, but it does involve like knowing your neighbors and figuring out how to get more involved. And I think that that’s, that’s really important and something that like we should all be thinking about right now.

1 (13m 33s):
Yeah, I think for me, when I think about the ways in which that I sort of get involved in the work offline is it’s like a two-pronged approach that there’s like you were saying, like plugging into formal organizations that are already doing the work, have been doing the work, have been doing the work for a long time, and there’s like so many issues. Like there’s something for everyone, right? And so you can’t actually, here’s like the good news. It’s both, it’s both scary news and good news. Like you, you dear listener, like can’t actually solve every single one of the world’s problems. You actually can’t even solve one of them all on your own, right? And so you can like, just like, you can just like let go of the notion that you have to fix it all.

1 (14m 13s):
And so like what you can do is like find a thing or a few things that are meaningful to you, that are accessible to you that like you have, but that you can be useful to and like go do those things. So like follow your curiosity when it comes to like, whether it’s homelessness or like women’s rights or domestic violence or abortion access or healthcare or like environmental justice, community gardens, like whatever it might be. There’s so many different things. And like go go find an organization to, to volunteer at, to learn from, to like attend a session at whatever it might be.

1 (14m 56s):
Informal networks, like folks, groups happening out of churches or synagogues, food banks. Like there’s just so many different ways to get involved. And then also to your point, like there’s also like an an informalness to it. Like, like meet your neighbors, like exchange phone numbers with your neighbors, talk to your neighbors, have your neighbors over for dinner. Like yes, it’s good to have community potluck. So like with your poly Q or with your queer chosen family and to sort of like get on the subway or like drive to the other side of town to like meet up with folks. Like yes, do that also, like strengthen your friendships and your extended like community. Like, and also like your literal next door neighbor. Like do you know their name? Because like those bonds of like knowing the people nearby contribute to a sort of sense of like rootedness and to togetherness.

1 (15m 47s):
I was just reading this book about like convenience and how we get so many of us are like optimizing our lives for convenience. We like order our products, our like close online. We like order our groceries for pickup. We like order our takeout off of an app. Or even if we’re going in for like our delivery on an app, even if we’re going in for takeout, we’re like order online. And that there actually is something about like buying your screws from like the hardware store going to the same pizza place and the guy knowing your name, like going to the tailor and having the tailor know you as opposed to just like buying a new clothes from Amazon or Zara or Costco every time you need something new. Which is like, not to say that you’re like friends with your tailor or the cashier or whatever, but there is a sense of like, oh yeah, I brought your package.

1 (16m 31s):
Like I live in an apartment building, so like I, like if I see someone has a package on a floor, I’m not going upstairs, but like on my floor below, I’ll like bring the package up so that they don’t have to come down to get it right. Like saying just like there’s a sense of like knowing and being accessible to the people around you that like changes your relationship with place and your like sense of safety and community and danger and belonging. And so like I think that there is also yes, like sign the petitions, right? Your lawmakers show up to the protests, volunteer at the food banks, give the money, whatever it is. Like, and also there’s something to be said about like throwing a block party for your six neighbors on your street.

3 (17m 15s):
Yeah. And I think that what’s so important about that to me is that I don’t necessarily have to be BFFs with any of those people, right? I I don’t even have to share ideological ideas or, or agree or vote the same. Right? And also we can still show up for each other When it comes to community things. Right? And, And I think that that too is how we break down some of the silos and some of the echo chambers on both sides to, to be able to be in community with people. And again, like this doesn’t mean that we agree, it doesn’t mean that those differences in beliefs don’t matter, but it does mean that like there are things that we can work together on even when we don’t agree.

3 (18m 5s):
Yeah. And there are ways that we can look out for each other even when we don’t agree, which can be really scary, I think to think about and can be really scary to like put yourself in a position where you’re like, I, I don’t, it feels safer to not know my neighbors or to be anonymous, but that’s like, it’s not actually safer, right? And so that’s something that I’ve had to wrestle with a lot. Like I I live in a rural community in a red state and like that’s complicated. And also it does matter that I know my neighbors and that I am able to figure out how to be in community with people.

1 (18m 41s):
Yeah. And you know, you see this also in, to bring it back to the Bible for a second, like the early church that like it as recorded in scripture, right? They’re wrestling with like different points of view within the movement and not that like the tent needs to be so big that we like lose sense of our like moral center. Like, and also like there are sometimes that we’re going to like either disagree about tactics or we’re going to have slightly different values. And so like figuring out like how do we stay connected to community and working towards a common goal while also like, just like recognizing that like we’re all, we’re all individual humans on our various journeys and we all bring like unique perspectives to things. And so yeah, I mean I think like it is a, it is a bizarro time and like, I don’t know, this is probably like the 17th time on the podcast in the past 15 years that we’ve said like, this is a bizarro time, right?

1 (19m 35s):
Like one of the things is that like, like there’s, there’s always some injustice and this is not new, right? Like maybe it’s affecting, maybe it’s getting new coverage, more coverage, different coverage. It’s affecting more people, whiter people. But like there’s always been injustice and especially for immigrants, for people of color, for queer people, this sort of like state violence is like not new. And also like we have to do something about it. And I think there’s, it can feel overwhelming And I think like, you know, like the antidotes to that, the antidote to fear aren’t overwhelm is action. And so whatever the small simple action that you can do it all, it all matters.

1 (20m 18s):
’cause like collectively, we have a lot of power.

4 (20m 22s):
The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for BTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.

2 (20m 31s):
To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram.

4 (20m 39s):
We’ll see you next week.

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