Maiden Mother Matriarch with Louise Perry

The gay rights movement got it wrong - Julie Bindel, Matthew Vines & Ronan McCrea | Maiden Mother Matriarch Episode 177

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Dec 21, 2025

Guest

In this thought-provoking discussion, Ronan McCrea, a constitutional law professor, critiques the fragility of recent gay rights wins. Julie Bindel, a journalist and activist, shares her feminist insights on the effects of queer activism on lesbians. Meanwhile, Matthew Vines, an advocate for same-sex relationships within Christianity, emphasizes the need for moderate strategies in the movement. The trio explores complex issues like the tension between liberation and respectability, the implications of demographic shifts, and the risks posed by radical activism.

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INSIGHT

Lesbians Lost Their Moment To 'Queer' Politics

Bindel argues lesbians briefly gained visibility but were quickly overshadowed as movements shifted to 'queer' and trans-focused agendas.
She says organisations like Stonewall moved attention away from lesbians toward trans issues.

INSIGHT

Overreach Undermines Political Sustainability

Overreach that frames LGBTQ+ as a perpetual challenge to all norms risks alienating the moderate straight support necessary for lasting rights.
Political sustainability requires limiting demands to what wins broad accommodation, not endless norm-challenging.

ADVICE

Frame Marriage Apart From Promiscuity

Matthew Vines recommends decoupling gay marriage acceptance from sexual libertinism.
Emphasize lifelong monogamous commitment as a durable basis for acceptance and social stability.

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We have seen an extraordinary change in attitudes towards gay and lesbian people over the last half century in the West. Within living memory, homosexuality was criminalised. Now, same-sex couples can get married and share custody of children. This is nothing short of a moral revolution.

Plenty of progressives think, not only that this change was inevitable, but also that further liberalisation is inevitable. My guests today are not so sure.

They note that, for the first time in a long time, younger people on average are less accepting of homosexuality than are slightly older people. Perhaps this is a result of immigration patterns. Perhaps it's a result of strategic errors made by activists. I'm joined by three people who all agree that something has gone wrong, although they disagree – subtly – on exactly how and why.

Ronan McCrea is professor of constitutional and European law at University College London and the author of 'The End of the Gay Rights Revolution: How Hubris and Overreach Threaten Gay Freedom.'

Matthew Vines the the Founder and Executive Director of The Reformation Project and the author of 'God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships.'

And Julie Bindel is a journalist, broadcaster, author, and the co-founder and co-director of The Lesbian Project.

All of these guests share a concern that the wins of the gay rights movement are very fragile. There is a very real possibility that we will look back on the early twenty-first century as an historical blip – a brief moment of victory that was squandered. We ask how that fate might be avoided.

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