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#122: You're Doing Zone 2 Wrong (Even If You Think You're Not) | Scott Johnston Round 2

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Mar 27, 2026

Guest

Scott Johnston

Scott Johnston, endurance coach and co-author of Training for the Uphill Athlete, explains why Zone 2 is often oversimplified. He tackles aerobic deficiency, when Zone 2 becomes too intense, myths about VO2max, balancing intensity versus volume, run-walk progressions, recovery timelines, and practical return-from-injury and heat/altitude adjustments.

01:31:28

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ANECDOTE

Coach's Mistake Adding Zone 2 Caused Overtraining

Scott shares a coaching mistake where adding more zone-2 to very fit cross-country skiers caused plateau then overtraining.
He caught it in time: athletes plateaued, then showed long-duration fatigue, prompting a reduction in zone-2.

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ADVICE

Plan Workout Density Using Recovery Costs

Use recovery-time estimates to plan workout density and avoid stacking high-cost sessions too often.
Scott references Jan Olbrecht's recovery graph and stresses running requires longer recovery than swimming due to gravity and impact.

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ADVICE

Stop Immediately When Overtraining Signs Appear

If you see performance drops, elevated resting HR, disrupted sleep, irritability or loss of motivation, stop training and rest.
Scott warns true overtraining is medical; minimal recovery can be weeks to months and sometimes career-ending if ignored.

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Why Zone 2 Is Oversimplified

02:37 • 55sec

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Aerobic Deficiency and Its Origins

03:31 • 2min

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When Zone 2 Becomes Too Intense

05:50 • 3min

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Risks of Excessive Zone 2 Training

08:49 • 1min

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Floris' MAF Example and Progress

10:06 • 4min

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High-Intensity Training Misconceptions

14:17 • 6min

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Energy Budget: Where to Spend Effort

Recovery Time by Training Zone

24:39 • 4min

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Jakob Ingebrigtsen's Double Threshold

28:20 • 3min

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Don't Train Like a Pro Unless You Are One

30:56 • 5min

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Overtraining: Causes and Consequences

36:05 • 2min

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Recognizing Overtraining Signals

38:07 • 7min

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How to Recover from Overtraining

44:41 • 7min

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Run-Walk Strategy for Zone 2

51:47 • 4min

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Measuring Progress in Run-Walk Training

55:41 • 2min

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Sample Week & Duration Principle

57:28 • 5min

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Cross-Training and Injury Alternatives

01:02:04 • 3min

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Lever Treadmill Tool for Reduced Impact

01:05:30 • 3min

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Returning After Time Off

01:08:50 • 5min

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Training in Heat and Heart Rate Adjustments

01:13:22 • 4min

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Testing Zones: Temperature and Sleep Effects

01:17:50 • 1min

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How Threshold Heart Rate and Pace Change

01:19:17 • 2min

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Breathing, Ventilation, and Measuring Intensity

01:21:41 • 3min

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Altitude: Different Zones for Different Places

01:25:00 • 44sec

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Where to Find Scott and Evoke Endurance

01:25:44 • 1min

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Final Advice: Motivation and Process

• Mentioned in 6 episodes

Training for the New Alpinism

Steve House

Scott Johnston

#8198

• Mentioned in 6 episodes

The Science of Winning

Jan Olbrecht

#5179

• Mentioned in 9 episodes

Training for the Uphill Athlete

A Manual for Mountain Runners and Ski Mountaineers

Kilian Jornet

Steve House

Scott Johnston

This book translates theory into methodology, allowing athletes to write their own training plans and coach themselves to their endurance goals. It covers the physiology and methodology of endurance and strength training, metabolism and nutrition, and how to structure and mix workouts to meet individual goals. The authors, who are renowned in their fields, provide evidence-based and experiential advice for competitive and recreational athletes alike, helping them to recognize and understand individual responses to training for the best possible outcome without injury.

Thanks to Bear Mattress for sponsoring this video. Get 40% off your Bear mattress at https://www.bearmattress.com/floris using code Floris.

Another incredible episode with Coach Scott Johnston. He is back for Round 2 after our first episode reached over 140,000 YouTube views in just a few weeks. We dive deeper into Zone 2 training, common mistakes runners make, VO₂ max myths, recovery, and how to balance intensity and volume for long-term progress without burning out.

Watch this full video on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDg4NAEKQO8

Chapters:

0:00 – The truth about zone 2 training
1:00 – Training for the Uphill Athlete
1:20 – BEAR mattress sponsorship
2:40 – What people get wrong about zone 2 training
10:10 – MAF training explained (180 – age)
14:11 – What people get wrong about high-intensity training
23:18 – Introducing our new Personal Best Running Club
24:07 – Recovery times by training zone
28:27 – How Jakob Ingebrigtsen runs double threshold sessions
34:50 – Balancing volume, intensity, and priorities
37:14 – Overtraining signs and recovery debt
47:45 – Motivation, body signals, and when to stop
51:40 – How to do run-walk training in zone 2
55:40 – How to measure progress in run-walk training
57:12 – Sample run-walk training week
59:22 – Guidelines for beginners starting easy training
1:02:04 – How to do cross-training during injury
1:05:12 – Lever treadmill tool (injury recovery)
1:07:23 – Returning after injury or time off
1:13:20 – Training in heat and adjusting effort
1:18:58 – Does aerobic threshold improve over time?
1:20:58 – Breathing vs heart rate for intensity
1:24:00 – Training at altitude (heart rate adjustments)
1:25:35 – Where to find Scott, his books, & programs
1:27:03 – Final advice for recreational runners to improve without burnout

FIND SCOTT JOHNSTON

► Website: https://evokeendurance.com/

► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coach_scott_johnston/

► Evoke Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evokeendurance/

► Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/evokeendurance/

► Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evokecast/id1652132598

► Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hEgBO6OHjnya5S6CWL024

► Training for the New Alpinism Book: https://a.co/d/056KjXT1

► Training for the Uphill Athlete Book: https://a.co/d/00NXdpdR

YOU CAN FIND ME, FLORIS GIERMAN HERE:

► Our New Personal Best Running Coaching Program: https://www.pbprogram.com/

► Buy my new book Running Breakthroughs: https://geni.us/runningbreakthroughs

► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/florisgierman/

► Extramilest Website: https://extramilest.com

► Strava: https://www.strava.com/athletes/1329785

► Path Projects Website: https://pathprojects.com

Affiliate Disclosure: I may earn commissions if you purchase items via my affiliate links. "As an affiliate I earn from qualifying purchases." Affiliate links do not increase cost to you. Also, you do not need to use these links. You can also search for these same items in Amazon or on any search engine/shopping site of your choice and buy/research them that way.

ABOUT THE EXTRAMILEST SHOW:

A podcast and YouTube channel where host Floris Gierman interviews world class athletes, coaches and health experts on the topic of how to become a stronger, healthier and happier athlete.

More info about our running coaching program can be found at https://www.pbprogram.com

Subscribe and hit the bell to see new videos: https://bit.ly/Flo-YT

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