The Game Changing Attorney Podcast with Michael Mogill 453. Why Precedent is the Enemy of Justice with Ben Crump [Encore Edition]
If you want justice to change, you cannot treat equality like a slogan. You have to fight for it like it is personal.
In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Ben Crump, renowned civil rights attorney and founder of Ben Crump Law, to unpack what it really means to pursue equality inside a system shaped by power, precedent, and bias. Ben explains why progress is often incremental, why the biggest injustice is not always what makes the news, and why lawyers have a responsibility to speak truth to power even when it is unpopular. This conversation is a reminder that influence is only valuable when you use it to protect people who do not have any.
Here's what you'll learn:
- Why racism and discrimination in America are rooted in economics, and how that shapes the fight for justice today
- How to handle death threats, public attacks, and the personal cost of taking on high-profile civil rights cases
- What it means to use your legal education to speak truth to power, even when it's controversial, unpopular, or dangerous
If you have a legal education, you have a responsibility to make the world a better place. This episode will remind you why.
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Show Notes:
02:53 — Ben explains the sacrifice behind the work, and why it feels like the news never stops giving him another family to serve.
03:55 — Ben talks about “incremental progress,” why change never happens overnight, and why cases like George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery still matter as proof that accountability is possible.
05:39 — Michael asks where the real problem begins; Ben says it starts with whether people truly believe the Declaration of Independence, then explains how he tests that belief in jury selection.
11:53 — Ben shares how he stays optimistic, first through his own upbringing and family, then through a surprising source: what law school taught him about “precedent.”
16:42 — Ben tells the story of his mother and grandmother, the power of education, and how Brown v. Board and Thurgood Marshall shaped his mission when he was only nine years old.
21:20 — Michael brings up the backlash and threats; Ben explains why he accepts the risk, what “influence” is for, and why speaking truth to power is part of the job.
25:50 — Ben gives a practical answer to “But what can I do?” in the face of injustice
29:13 — Ben reflects on being a “rent lawyer,” and why the small cases and hard seasons are what sharpen the skills you will rely on later.
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Links & Resources:
- Ben Crump Law
- Civil: Ben Crump (Netflix Documentary)
- Thurgood Marshall
- Frederick Douglass
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
- Seven Pillars of Wisdom by T. E. Lawrence
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Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more.
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