*Disclaimer* This episode contains strong language
George Conway — the conservative lawyer turned leading Trump critic, Lincoln Project co-founder, and now Democratic congressional candidate in New York — joins the Chuck Toddcast for an urgent, no-holds-barred conversation about what he sees as an existential crisis for American constitutional government. Conway, who became a Republican in the 1980s as a "legal conservative" grounded in the Constitution, argues that the party he once joined is now unrecognizable, and that young people have been led to believe conservatism and Trumpism are the same thing. He makes an impassioned case that a third impeachment of Trump isn't just politically justified but a constitutional imperative, warning that Trump is psychologically deteriorating while controlling the military and nuclear arsenal, creating a domestic army through ICE, and presiding over what Conway calls the most corrupt government in America's 250-year history. He points to Mitch McConnell's failure to vote for conviction during the second impeachment trial as the hinge point that could have changed everything — and argues that if impeachment doesn't apply to what Trump has done, the mechanism has no meaning.
The conversation goes beyond Trump himself into deeper structural questions about how to repair American democracy. Conway endorses the bipartisan constitutional amendment circulating in the House to nullify presidential pardons — citing Trump intermediaries allegedly being paid for sold pardons — but argues that statutory fixes will be more achievable than amendments, and that Congress needs to codify the old "norms" into enforceable law. He argues that that Democrats should fight fire with fire, with Chuck warning it only feeds whataboutism, and makes the case for incrementalism and welcoming converts rather than saying "I told you so" — pointing to figures like Marjorie Taylor Greene as case studies in evolving away from Trump. Throughout, Conway returns to a central theme: that no positive policy agenda is possible until the current constitutional crisis is resolved, and that America simply cannot survive three more years of a government working to serve one man.
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Timeline:
00:00 George Conway joins the Chuck ToddCast
01:30 The Republican party is unrecognizable today
02:30 Why George became a Republican in the 80’s
04:00 George was a “legal” conservative based on the Constitution
05:00 Nixon did some not so conservative things because they were popular
06:30 Young people think conservatism & Trumpism are the same thing
07:15 The Democratic party is trying to fit a broad coalition under one tent
08:00 We can’t have serious policy debates until the current crisis is over
09:30 Hating corrupt politicians of all stripes, not just one side
10:30 Can’t retire because the last few years have been appalling
11:45 The courts aren’t equipped to deal with someone like Trump
13:30 Could a third impeachment trial weaken the impeachment process?
14:30 Mitch McConnell choked during Trump’s 2nd impeachment trial
15:00 If McConnell voted to convict, others would have followed
16:00 If we can’t impeach Trump for what he’s done… Then why have impeachment?
17:15 Do we want a constitutional government or not?
19:00 Impeaching Trump is as constitutional imperative for congress
19:30 Trump is deteriorating psychologically and controls military & nukes
20:15 Trump is creating his own domestic army with ICE
21:00 The Republic, the constitution and rule of law are all on the line
21:45 We can’t survive three more years of this
22:45 In 250 years, we’ve never seen a government this corrupt
24:30 The internet & media only have so much bandwidth, can’t handle Trump
25:45 The government is only working to serve one man
26:45 If we don’t impeach Trump, we’re throwing out the constitution
27:30 Can you convince Hakeem Jeffries to impeach Trump a 3rd team?
28:30 Trump & his actions will only get worse in the coming months
30:30 American politics has deteriorated due to the weakness of congress
31:00 Everything has gone to the courts since congress won’t legislate
32:15 Constitutional amendment to nullify pardons introduced in house
34:30 Passing amendments is hard, statutory fixes will be easier to pass
36:00 Congress gets to set the rules, and has defaulted on responsibility
36:45 The old “norms” need to be codified into law
38:15 Our backs are against the wall, normal politics don’t apply
40:00 Fighting fire with fire feeds into “whataboutism”
41:30 Want to go back to an America where the president isn’t a “piece of shit”
44:00 Only four people control congress & that’s the problem
44:45 What do you say to the voter who supports Trump for policy reasons?
46:15 Nobody has done more damage to restriction immigration than Trump
47:15 How did the Reagan GOP you joined become Trump acolytes?
48:00 Victimhood is clearly the currency of the right
49:45 The right’s grievance complex leads them to only oppose the left
51:00 The case for incrementalism, democracy is a dialogue
52:15 There is a nihilistic animus amongst Trump’s inner circle
54:45 Bush has stayed fairly quiet about Trump, should have spoken sooner
57:45 The only way to win converts is to welcome them i.e. Marjorie Taylor-Greene
58:45 Mike Pence deserves credit for J6, but should have conceded in November
1:00:00 Marjorie Taylor-Greene is a case study in evolving away from Trump
1:02:30 The spirit of democracy requires being to admit you were wrong
1:03:15 Nobody likes to hear “I told you so” - It’s why Trumpism has persisted
1:04:30 What questions do voters ask you that aren’t about Trump?
1:07:15 We can’t do positive things for people until Trump is gone
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