Let's talk Transformation : The business leaders podcast #165 Mastering innovation with Bruno Pesec
" Innovation is not just technology, systems and strategy, it is also about energy and embodied behaviour."
Bruno and I discuss the human side of innovation and the strategic role of AI. We explore how leaders can foster creativity and manage uncertainty by adopting principles from martial arts and leveraging AI for better decision-making.
Bruno brings a unique perspective, combining engineering rigour, martial arts mastery, and deep reflection on embodied leadership. We explore different perspectives on how to master generative conflict for Innovation success and making strategy an embodied practice. The insight on the intersection between martial arts mastery, strategy and leadership brings a new lens that every CEO should learn: how to engage in “generative conflict.” So how to 'use' fear and agression in a smarter, more constructive way, which is consensual, respectful, collaborative and vulnerable.
Bruno sees innovation not just as systems and strategy, but as energy and embodied behaviour. The difference between doing and managing innovation is really key. Doing is about turning ideas into value; managing is scaling that process across hundreds of ideas, accepting uncertainty and potential failure. This distinction really hit home because if something is truly innovative, it comes with a big element of uncertainty. And that means failure is always a possibility, even if you do everything right.
The main insights you'll get from this episode are :
- Finding innovative solutions for leaders that address the human side of innovation and AI’s strategic role beyond the hype; innovation is energy and embodies behaviour, away from processes and tools.
- The difference between ‘doing’ and ‘managing’ innovation is important: the former is about transforming ideas into money (in a corporate context); the latter is doing it at scale, i.e. concurrently developing hundreds of ideas.
- Creativity brings something to life and is an inherent part of human nature - innovation is very personal, from which we can harness failure and maximise learning to create something of value.
- Whilst uncertainty and ambiguity always exist, senior leaders can remove ambiguity in the form of strategy, as an unknown or unclear strategy spreads uncertainty. Strategy is like embodied practice – need to feel it in the real world.
- Martial arts redirect fear and aggression rather than eliminate them, providing a good lesson for CEOs in how to engage in generative conflict, which is consensual, respectful, collaborative and vulnerable.
- Strategising and innovating demand conflict, and innovation can be seen as the equivalent of sparring practice: articulating and creating something that then becomes the discussion point.
- Playing Lean is a (serious) board game for innovation, providing a safe space between the classroom and the front line, but the emotions and experiences are real – real skill transference and a team activity.
- Augmented strategy using AI is currently very superficial applications of LLMs, which are worthless in the bigger picture – we must optimise decision-making processes and understand decisions as humans.
- We must first map out the requisite data, insights, and knowledge, and then leverage specific AI to create multiple scenarios; hybrid intelligence uses AI to enhance human creativity.
- Asking customers (in a B2B environment) for feedback is invaluable for innovation – it is of great importance to have people with (life) experience who will understand the issue, and AI cannot replace this.
- The simplest practice leaders can implement immediately is to listen and play back what they heard to check correct understanding, thereby inviting others to bring forward their thinking.
Find out more about Bruno and his work here :